Haiti: WTF?

Aristide was elected President in a landslide in December 1990 in the first election following the collapse of the dictatorial Duvalier regime, which had ruled from at least 1964 (since 1957 more democratically) to 1986. He was the only viable candidate, having developed a large personality cult through years of political dissent and preaching liberation theology. His rule was democratic compared to what preceded him. In September 1991, he was overthrown in a coup and replaced by a military junta that ruled until 1994. In the interim, Aristide lived in the US and 40,000 Haitian refugees escaped to the US. In 1994, the US helped restore Aristide to power by threatening to invade and overthrow the junta after the UN approved intervention. On retaking office, he purged the military of opponents (and graduates of the School of the Americas). In 1996, he stepped down, barred from serving a second consecutive term. He was replaced by an ally. In the interim, he formed a new party that won legislative elections in 2000 in which the vote-counting methods were objected to by the opposition. He was elected President again in 2000 with 92% of the vote. The election was boycotted by most opposition parties who claimed they had no fair chance. The largest of the opposition parties formed a shadow government. When the opposition rejected Aristide's governmental reform proposal that did not include opposition members in the vote-counting body, Aristide tried to arrest the head of the shadow government. The parties continued to negotiate unsuccessfully through 2001 and 2002, while the economy declined. This apparently prevented legislative elections from being held in late 2003, such that the legislature essentially became inoperative and Aristide, still in office, began to rule by decree.The US, with the EU, France, Canada and a number of other countries and organizations have attempted to negotiate peace between Aristide and the opposition, coming up with a plan that establishes new political institutions and broadens rights of dissent. Aristide promises to hold elections within the next several months. But the opposition rejects the international peace plan and Aristide's election proposal, demanding that he step down before the end of his term. The rebels launched a major offensive at the beginning of February, taking the country's fourth-largest city. The US sent troops to observe the situation and protect the 20,000 US citizens in Haiti. At this moment, the rebels are reportedly attempting to take the second-largest city in the nation, taking the airport and attempting to commandeer a plane.

But who is going to take over if Aristide is deposed? The Cannibal Army? Aristide has been a huge disapointment, but there's no one in position to replace him. He's agreed to make a number of compromises, but the rebels have refused to accept them.

But again, many of us prefer that the actions of the Bush administration not be referred to as actions of the U.S.

there is violent oppostition to Aristide, but I don't think it can be readily demonstrated that the opposition is *popular*, in the sense of being supported by a majority of Haitians. That's not to say it isn't, necessarily.

Presidential political systems SuXoR.

which is why I didn't use the word "majoritarian" but rather the word "popular," referring to the people.

xpost: I dunno, why does France feel the same way in this case?

But how would the U.S. benefit by losing Aristide? The Haitian embargo is based on refusing to allow Haitian government to evovle slowly and stubbornly demanding immedate democracy, which is stupid and shortsighted, but even the Bush administration understands that, right now, there is no one to replace Aristide.

And quit being so touchy. I don't hate americans. I just hate the people that govern it. Duh. (x-post)

as Colin just said, that's exactly what the negotiating position of the US is. the only funding going on is by an independent organization in the US associated with people who are Republicans, some of whom have been in government.

THE PEOPLE is a dangerous term. All you really mean is some of the people.

The majority = those who American interests will ignore in order to promote the minority

even from the early 1990s i always had the sense that aristide was a sketchy would-be autocrat, which is not to say that his opposition is right in what they're doing

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&e=2&u=/ap/20040227/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_haiti

The Secret Service? Um, no. Maybe the CIA. The Secret Service handles security for politicians, visiting heads of state and carries out Treasury Department enforcement (i.e. anti-counterfeit measures, etc.). They don't destabilize countries.

Yes, I should have said "people". "some" is also arguably a "dangerous" term. Neither of us know how many. My point still stands.

The people = the minority who support American interests
The majority = those who American interests will ignore in order to promote the minority

What "American interests"? How do you know? The foreign press suggests that there is popular discontent with Aristide. What incentive would Haitians have to "support American interests"?

I'll admit that with Powell saying that it may be time for Aristide to step down, at least some people in the US may be involved here.

Ask yourself where all this 'information' is coming from and why this, rather than other information, is being fed to the American public.

The tone of this opening question demands a comparison to all U.S. incursions into other nations, but, I'm afraid, that's so general as to be meaningless.

1. Haiti is in the U.S.'s backyard. The U.S. has an interest in what happens there.
2. There's no oil or anything else in Haiti that the U.S. is trying to commandeer.
3. Is it more appropriate to adopt the (recent) European stance? That is, watch idly as second or third world citizens kill one another plunging their society into anarchy, but do nothing to help. Oh, of course, criticize the U.S. in a kneejerk fashion when action is taken, no matter what it is.

Such a comparison would not be meaningless, it would be relevant. Every single incursion into other nations by the US should be seen in terms of the totality of incursions by the US. If nothing else, such a comparison - even if incomplete - shows that these events are not singular and unique but are part of a pattern of activity and the result of a global strategy by the US.

what on this thread isn't "propaganda"? how would you describe the people that Aristide pays who beat, burn or shoot Haitian civilians?

Ask yourself where all this 'information' is coming from and why this, rather than other information, is being fed to the American public.

Uh, the Associated Press? National Public Radio? Oh no, I am the naive ugly American! I must believe only that which is ideologically consistent with my political beliefs and reject the potential truthfulness of everything else! When you can come up with some contrary information, I'll pay attention to it.

by the US

a strategy that has completely reversed direction in ten years. i suppose we did the wrong thing when we restored Aristide to power in 94?

and until then, you will simply believe all the propaganda you get in favour of American intervention?

i suppose we did the wrong thing when we restored Aristide to power in 94?

the US did what the US always does: it did what it thought was in American interests and when things don't turn out as planned, send in the army (preceded by special forces) in order to intervene again.

So yes, I do suppose you did the wrong thing when you supported and armed Saddam and then did the wrong thing again by going to war to get rid of Saddam. And Haiti follows the same pattern.

If you think the American government and the Pentagon don't think strategically about foreign affairs

If the "American Government" is an entity that acts on the world stage with a coherent objective over a long period of time, then discussions about what Bush would do vs. what Gore would have done or what Clinton did are rendered invalid.

Even the Pentagon, while entrenched and isolated to a certain degree from the executive branch, is an extremely transient place. Generals with enough power to make long-term "strategic" policy don't stay around long enough to implement it. They spend a lot of money thinking about things, maybe, but, no I don't think there's a nefarious strategy.

If we had a consistent, long-term strategy, we'd be better at running the world.

Nike and Coca-cola, on the other hand, DO have long-term strategies. And they do pretty well.

No it doesn't, it means that they will respond to the same research, data, prognosis, planning, advice etc differently.

I don't think there's a nefarious strategy.

Consider this from the CIA archive:

"It is firm and continuing policy that Allende [Chilean leader] be overthrown by a coup... We are to continue to generate maximum pressures toward this end utilizing every appropriate resource. It is imperative that these actions be implemented clandestinely and securely so that United States Government and American hand be well hidden."

It's arguable that the US acted in 94 firstly out of American interests in dealing with the refugee problem, sure. I'm glad that you effectively concede my point that we did the right thing, whatever our motive. You seek to elide that concession by monolithically - and offensively - using "the US" to suggest that our motives remained the same but changed merely because of the facts, suggesting that the Clinton administration approached world affairs in exactly the same way and with the same motives as either of the Bush administrations, the latter of which no longer has the popular opinion support of even half of the country.

Maybe I should say this instead:

Britain did what Britain always does: it did what it thought was in British interests - imperialism - and when things didn't turn out as planned, it sent in the army in order to intervene again. Both in Iraq and in the Falklands.

But because I'm free from kneejerk anti-Americanism (and anti-interventionism and pacifism), I can admit that once in a while Britain does something simply because it's right.

Actually, a government that didn't do this would be stupid and vulnerable.

Yes. Quite, as y'all say. It sounds like you're justifying it.

"It is firm and continuing policy that Allende [Chilean leader] be overthrown by a coup... We are to continue to generate maximum pressures toward this end utilizing every appropriate resource. It is imperative that these actions be implemented clandestinely and securely so that United States Government and American hand be well hidden."

And what does the Nixon administration have to do with the Clinton administration, more than 20 years later?

Leave the democratically elected government alone.

Provide some evidence that the elections were fair and not rigged.

Tactical: overthrow Allende via coup
Strategic: formulate policy to foster x-type of political structure in Latin America overall. With the resulting goal of ____.

Good longterm policy, political, corporate, whatever, also includes an exit strategy. We never have one. Reagan's goal, end the Soviet Union. Okay, it happens, what replaces it? Anarchy. Ditto virtually everywhere else we've had a hand.

Also, there's little distinction in the American policy of intervention between big goals and little goals.

Soviet Union/Iraq - high stakes
Haiti/Chile/Grenada/Panama - no stakes at all

That we can consider something from the CIA archives is telling.

I did not. I simply said that you were wrong to intervene in the first place and continue to be wrong to intervene now.

If you think that various administrations start from scratch with their military and foreign policies, consider this chain of events:

Colin Powell had laid military contingency plans to deal with Iraq prior to the first Gulf War. Regime change was argued for by Bush's Deputy Secretary of Defense as early as 1992. Regime change in Iraq was policy in the Clinton administration. And in a report written in 1999 by a group including Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Perle, it was stated that American military intervention in Iraq for regime change could not get popular support in the States unless there was "a catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor". They got one and then all their planning came into action.

Provide some evidence that the elections were fair and not rigged.

America has no right to such evidence after the way that Bush got in. But either way, this is typical muscular American foreign policy: find a minority group who dispute the government of a foreign state that isn't towing the US line and back them. If the minority claim that the elections weren't fair then all the better. It is just an excuse for American muscle.

By the way, I'm not a knee-jerk anti-American. I agree with you about Britain's imperialist policies. My points are never against America as such. However, when I think that America is wrong, I will say so. By calling this knee-jerk you are either trying to ridicule opposition or you actually believe, slavishly, that opposition to American good sense is always ridiculous. That's quite sad.

Oh, I like this one. Pure ideology!

The argument - if there was one, rather than this assertion - would be something like this: America is an open society and here is the proof, the CIA opens its archive so that we can see what awful things it got up to destabilising countries all over the world. Forget about what the CIA were doing in these countries. If only the societies that the CIA is fucking up were as open as the US then the CIA would not need to covertly undermine them.

A bullying open society is justified in bullying the world because it is open, is it? It is the bullying that is the problem and using the open society to justify it is to fail to justify it. Basically, there is no justification for imperial bullying, so what imperial powers do is defend it by referring to the superiority of their culture instead.

Scales falling from eyes! Well yes, of course. And?

By the way, I'm not a knee-jerk anti-American. I agree with you about Britain's imperialist policies. My points are never against America as such. However, when I think that America is wrong, I will say so. By calling this knee-jerk you are either trying to ridicule opposition or you actually believe, slavishly, that opposition to American good sense is always ridiculous. That's quite sad.

Cute closing note of moral superiority. Very Joe Lieberman.

I do believe that you are a knee-jerk anti-American at least in the sense that you are unwilling to regard "America" as anything other than an entity that acts outside its borders, whether or not it acts with the support or even knowledge of its people, or to distinguish between different American administrations or between administrations and America's people.

I don't think we can talk about whether American intervention here is justified, because there is no American intervention here. I am readily willing to concede that Haitian expatriates in the US, the CIA, Republicans outside of government, Republicans in government, or any combination of these, may be involved in what's going on now. The US is not, as a matter of formal policy, although concededly it is officially taking at least a hands-off approach and may be well aware of what's really happening.

Suppose for the sake of argument that the Bush administration, and/or some other part of the government is involved at least indirectly. I am arguing against your opposition to such involvement (even if I might agree with such opposition; I'm not informed enough to take a position one way or the other) because I perceive the opposition to be based simply on the fact of American involvement, as well as on the assumption - not necessarily wrong, but without evidence that you have examined the facts - that Aristide is good or popular and that an American-approved alternative would be bad or unpopular. I don't necessarily assume the opposite, and having looked around more I am more skeptical about the stories of Aristide's undemocratic tendencies (though, as is always true in attempting to prove a negative, I haven't seen hard evidence either). But if I have bought into "propaganda" about Aristide, so has Isabel Hilton.

Oh, I like this one. Pure ideology!

The argument - if there was one, rather than this assertion - would be something like this: America is an open society and here is the proof, the CIA opens its archive so that we can see what awful things it got up to destabilising countries all over the world. Forget about what the CIA were doing in these countries.

I'm not going to back up Skottie's point here, but I don't think that you understood it.

I can't tell if you're kneejerk anti-american or not, doesn't matter. You do seem to be kneejerk anti-interventionist, however. And a touch paranoid. The problem with government conspiracy theories are many, not least among them, governments can't keep secrets, and there isn't longterm continuity among the players powerful enough to try. There just isn't.

It seems unlikely that the vast, vast revenues generated by Haitian purchases of American rice would justify military intervention. What are the components of the Haitian "market" anyway. They buy rice from the U.S. with IMF loans financed by the U.S.? Or with direct aid grants from the U.S.? Come on.

Leave Haiti alone to work out its problems until there are no more Haitians standing. Then there won't be any more problems. That was the European policy in the Balkans, of course.

Which is not to say I think you're hugely misguided or anything, and for the record it's not like I know loads and loads about Haiti -- it's just that I think the traditional U.S.-interests analysis you're pushing isn't particularly effective here. Because the U.S. interest is, in this case, quite likely very simple: the goal, as always, is to sort of screw the ideological specifics and just get this county to a state where we can safely mostly-ignore it.

And there are perfectly good reasons to criticize that, which is the one place where i can semi-agree with you. As in, let's go over a list of reasons why we wouldn't take a hand-off approach to Haiti -- reasons I'm not necessarily advancing or defending but just offering up as surely the ones in operation: (a) refugees, (b) Haitian-American voters, (c) even worse chaos and violence that eventually shames the "uncaring" U.S. into stepping in anyway, eventually, plus of course (d) inclination to stabilize the thing you know and can live with rather than open the door to something even non-ideologues couldn't stomach. And it's that last point, sensible as it is, that I think you're trying to hammer at, right? Because it's Not Our Place to be stomaching or not-stomaching the government of another nation, right? And I semi-agree with you on that one, but not universally, because that logic, carried to its extreme, means abandoning even our more worthwhile principles.

And you'd have to say more than you're currently saying to convince me that Haiti is a situation that deserves that kind of neglect.

American interest in keeping Aristide in power isn't necessarily due to apathy or just an interest in keeping things calm. Right now there is no one to fill the Aristide's position if he's deposed. However ineffectual Aristide is, The Cannibal Army (I'm sorry, "The Gonaives Resistance Front") is a lot less prepared (and less willing) to try and rebuiled Haiti.

I try not to get involved in political threads anymore (I get in them, then don't go back for a few days, and lose all interest in debate), but here I gotta say Skottie's OTM. Prime Example:

"and until then, you will simply believe all the propaganda you get in favour of American intervention?"

Stomaching and not-stomaching other governments, when it is backed with the military - ie imposing stomach-able governments on other nations - is problematic, I agree. And yes, that's is my main gripe with Americans contemplating what they should do about the situation in Haiti.

In run it off's weltanschauung, the U.S. is always either in "uncaring" or "meddling imperialistic" mode. This binary status is convenient because whatever the situation, the U.S. is always wrong.

Show me where I did this. I haven't once talked about the US being uncaring and I don't think the US would be uncaring if it kept out of other nation's democratic business. And, to reiterate, I am not limiting my anti-imperialism to the US.

By the way, this is not pacifism. If there is good reason to go to war - against an aggressive Fascism, say - then I think all governments should fight for their principles against that fascism. I'm not a pacifist, I'm anti-imperlialist. If America is flexing its imperialist muscles a lot lately, I don't consider that my fault and so my opposition to it will naturally mean arguing against American foreign policy. That doesn't make me anti-American. It makes me anti-imperialist.

Gabbneb, after being told about the strong links between administrations and the foreign policy that is common between them: Scales falling from eyes! Well yes, of course. And?

Also, Run it Off's commentary is definitely OTM.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=589&e=1&u=/ap/20040301/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/haiti_uprising

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040301/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/un_haiti_10

i think it's mostly a matter of the us not wanting to be embarrassed by a bloodbath in their backyard but otherwise ignoring the situation as best they can, or simply managing it for maximum quiet, whatever that happens to mean

i don't know much about this; can you point me to an article that goes into detail?

i'm skeptical only because this is the "line" on so many other countries and it begins to sound overfamiliar, but you may be right.

Here’s an article about the history of America’s intervention in Haiti

Haiti is the poorest country in the western hemisphere, so you are right that America has nothing to worry about from Haiti or any Haitian leader directly. However, America insists that the countries in its 'backyard' comply with American interests. The force of this insistence can take military form, or simply be tied to aid and loan packages. When one of these countries, or their leaders, resists Washington in some way, the American government becomes nervous. There seems to be a bad-apple-mentality in the Pentagon that fears middle and southern American mutiny. So, it is not Haiti itself which is a threat to the states, but there is a perception that if the poorest nation in the western hemisphere can flout American demands that that is an unacceptable situation and a bad example. America does not demand that human rights be upheld as a precondition for aid in these countries (Colombia, for instance) only that they comply with and actively support American interests.

http://www.exile.ru/184/war_nerd.html

relevant quote:

"In a way, the only sad thing about Haiti is the way we keep trying to make it into Ohio. Because it never will be, and only looks ridiculous trying, giving the local killers fancy democratic names. If we just let Haiti be Haiti—a crazy, gory voodoo kingdom—people might learn to respect the place."

oh that helps!

Isn't that quite close to the way the British empire described India before deciding India would be better off in under British rule?

Chavez is so next. Again.

America has certainly pushed for Aristide's removal, but I don't think anyone was in favor of the Cannibal Army uprising. But, you're right, the most important step is yet to come and hopefully the Bush administration will surprise us.

Where have you gone, Jesse Helms.

You call the line "Regime change in Iraq was policy in the Clinton administration" a "strong link[] between administrations and the foreign policy that is common between them"?! Please. What does this example have to do with Allende, the original subject? And when exactly did the Clinton administration put into effect its policy of regime change in Iraq?

I don't think I've been cynical at all. I've tried to point out America's involvement in the problem while most other people on this thread have thought only of America's intervention as a solution.

I have not posited American intervention as a solution once on this thread. Nor, I think, has anyone else.

Why'd I take flack for my statement in the first entry again?

Perhaps because the implication of the statement is that Saddam Hussein was a democratically-elected leader?

You were right, clearly, about our involvement in Aristide's removal. Apparently, it took John Kerry to fully point this out to me - even if there were no covert involvement, as an official matter, in attempting to broker a peace between Aristide and the rebels, we (and France and Canada) effectively gave the rebels a veto power that allowed the situation to develop.

Really? See below.

Nabiscobiscuit: I could very well be wrong, but it seems to me that our main "interests" there are -- if we wrap them up in one package -- to prevent refugee situations (and keep Haitian-American voters non-angry) by ensuring stability

Here the intervention as solution argument is qualified, but it stands.

dyson: well, hopefully whatever guns do make it there will help stabilize things.

Here intervention is 'hoped' for as a positive solution.

Colin Beckett: leaving Haiti alone to eat itself is no more humane a solution that engineering a puppet government.

Here intervention is proposed in the form of a fallacious opposition between doing something and doing nothing.

Clinton didn't put this policy into effect. Acting on a policy is different from having the policy. Often governments have policies that they feel, for whatever reason, that they can't get away with. Clinton had the policy nonetheless.

And what does the Nixon administration have to do with the Clinton administration, more than 20 years later?

When I brought up Iraq and Allende, this was not in order to prove that all these events are actually the same or even that they have strong links or anything to do with Aristide. The point I was making, and you know it, is that the transference of power between one administration and the next does not mean abandoning foreign policies, but more often than not sees a continuation of foreign policy. So, it is entirely possible for Nixon and Clinton to share specific aims in foreign policy.

When you laugh at the idea that Clinton might have a policy that he doesn't or can't put into effect, is very naive. YOu seem to think that Presidents of the United States are subject to no external obstructions or opposition. The quote about needing another Pearl Harbor, up thread, is a good example of the restraints placed on government. That's why I referred to it! And yet, you haven't mentioned it once in all your cynical, arrogant jibes against me. Tell me I'm wrong about reading this quote from Rumsfeld's (et al's) report as an admission of (1) a policy that is not put into effect because (2) the policy would be popularly opposed.

Rangel appears to be all over the administration on this one, posing the question pretty efficiently: At what point did we abandon the democratically elected leader of this nation and literally shoo him overseas to make way for what would be called a coup if not for the fact that we made him resign before shuttling him off?

Also, apart from going down the route of arguing over the precise workings of U.S. motives -- i.e., one says "sinister," two says "reasonably self-interested," three says "noble," which is where it seems like way too many foreign-policy discussions wind up anyway -- what do you see in future here?

Feb 12 Colin Powell said this: "The policy of the administration is not regime change, President Aristide is the elected president of Haiti."

Five days later, this: "We cannot buy into a proposition that says the elected president must be forced out of office by thugs and those who do not respect law and are bringing terrible violence to the Haitian people."

February 26: "He is the democratically elected president, but he has had difficulties in his presidency, and I think... whether or not he is able to effectively continue as president is something that he will have to examine."

February 27: Aristide should "examine the situation he is in and make a careful examination of how best to serve the Haitian people at this time."

That "refuse to negotiate" is key; from what I can tell there were a lot of negotiations and concessions made with the formal opposition and the less-formal rebels, and they were all rejected, on logic of Aristide-out-or-nothing.

i don't see any gains from having aristide ousted (what does haiti have that the u.s. would be interested in really). i'd also mention that if there was serious a problem with him he wouldn't have been put back in power so many years ago. i'd mention it except for the fact that the u.s. had quite a massive track record for pulling 180º's on issues of foreign policy.

PLAYING IN THE WAR ZONE – Brett Bailey

I arrived in Haiti in early February for a two week stint to find a cast for the show I’m currently writing and designing, Vodou Nation, and to give training workshops to the performers I’ll be directing. That was almost five weeks ago, when the threat of war was just a rumour.
Until September last year, when I made my first trip here to get a feel for the country, I had little idea of what Haiti was about aside from the common stereotypes: poverty, tyranny, vodou. I didn’t really even know where the island was.
English producer Jan Ryan – who tours my South African work in the UK – had fallen for the “vodou-rock” music of Port-au-Prince-based band, RAM, and decided we would make a dynamic partnership in developing a stage show. My company consists of actors and musicians from the South African townships. Jan also pulled in Trinidadian director, Geraldine Connor – who is based at the West Yorkshire Playhouse – to co-direct with me.
During the past months I’ve read a good deal about local culture, history and religion, trying to make sense of this convoluted, multi-layered nation. I decided to tell an allegorical story of the rise and fall of a dictator (since Haiti has had its fair share of those), beginning from when Christopher Columbus made boot prints on the beach here in 1492, and ending more or less now, but with an image of transformation and hope.
I envision Vodou Nation as a celebration of sorts: of the endurance and prolific creativity of an amalgamation of once-enslaved people who have managed to forge a vivid and distinctive culture, religion, language out of so many fragments. I want to give acknowledgement to the spirit of these people who have suffered so much at the hands of the world’s Big Men. But as the shadow of civil war fell across the country my upbeat ending felt increasingly like wishful thinking.

About sixty hopefuls turned up for the auditions – mostly dancers, as drama does not feature prominently on the cultural landscape here. I selected seven of these – including Paris-based Haitian choreographer, Erol Josue – to perform alongside the eight musicians of RAM.
During the workshops – conducted with the aid of an interpreter, my Creole being limited to a few pleasantries – my performers and I worked on the dances and songs of the various vodou deities, doing improvisation exercises to free the mind and body. The contrast between the rehearsal room and the streets was startling. Angry red graffiti shouted from the walls. Time and again my lift to rehearsals made hasty U-turns as armed mobs moved towards us. Everywhere roads were cordoned off by concrete blocks, vehicle carcases and rubble. Smouldering rubber pyres left black bruises on the tarmac.
During the second week of my stay all hell broke loose in the northern towns of Gonaives, Saint Marc and Cap Haitian as various rebel factions rose up and slaughtered the stalwarts of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. Tourists and Peace Corp workers left the hotel and were replaced by reporters and photographers, some direct from the bloodbaths of Iraq, others fresh-faced from college and embarking on their first action adventure.
We gathered around the bar of the grand old Oloffson Hotel, on a hillside about a mile from the city centre, with rum punches in hand watching CNN footage of towns falling. Conspiracy theories took flight and died. Gunshots peppered the night sky.

Between visits to vodou temples, and the studios of ghetto artists who fashion saintly icons out of junk, and the uptown painters with their jungle canvases of gaudy innocence, I dropped in at academics and intellectuals to milk them for information and to run my little narrative by them. These interviews were invariably interrupted by telephone calls and radio reports heralding the approaching storm.

Not knowing how long the unrest might last, we had to consider the possibility of holding the rehearsals in England rather than in Haiti as planned. With this in mind I decided to extend my ticket by five days so as to forage for more information, and to attend carnival in the sleepy town of Jacmel three hours drive to the south. The masks and costumes of carnival are inspiration for many of the costumes I am designing.
Everywhere I went I aimed my tiny digital camera at the crazy painted buses and the bright signage that adorns buildings and shops. I bought icons, dolls and sculptures to serve as models to be enlarged by the prop makers in Leeds.

By Wednesday 25 February, the day I was to have flown, Haiti had erupted into violence. Aristide’s slum-boy thugs, the Chimer, were manning roadblocks all over the city, robbing people at gunpoint. I tucked my laptop with my text on it under the seat of the taxi and headed blindly into the maelstrom.
The airport was a bun-fight with people desperate to leave, bribes being offered to get to the front of the queue, American women weeping in frustration. Possessing an out-dated ticket I was sent from pillar to post, and in the end made my way back to the Oloffson while my aeroplane soared overhead to sit out the revolution.

During the US occupation of Haiti (1915-1935) the Oloffson Hotel served as a military hospital. My bedroom is the old surgery, decked out in green tiles and with a hole in the centre of the floor where the blood drained out. I write by the overhead operating light.
The room is named “The Graham Greene Suite”. The author stayed here while writing his novel, The Comedians, set in this hotel during the bloody reign of Papa Doc and his Chimer, the Tonton Macoutes.
I never thought when I arrived here that I would witness drama with such relevance to the show I am creating. I have loved the romance of writing a play about this country in this suite, while the energy of a world gone haywire booms around me. The energy has been electrifying.

Saturday afternoon I joined the press on a tour of the smoking city. Down at the harbour warehouses rampant looting had been going on all day. According to my companions the scene was a free for all orgy that morning with cops in their black Darth Vader outfits and assault rifles trying to maintain order.
The wall of the compound had been broken and people were scurrying across the road with whatever they could carry: appliances, boxes, white sacks of grain or flour. Some men brandished rifles and hand-guns. They gestured at us to go away, and not to take pictures, but our Rastafarian guide said “we can push it a bit.”
The air was bitter with the smoke of burning rubber and plastic. Garbage covered the road. The body of a man, shot dead earlier, lay partly covered with cardboard.
Small stick-thin barefoot boys teetered past with crates of empty Coca-Cola bottles on their heads – the booty of those at the bottom of the pecking order in the Western hemisphere’s poorest nation.
Toyota pickup trucks were accelerating out of another hole in the wall and speeding away. “Vehicles confiscated by the police for not having brakes”, our guide told us us. Mobile barricades – if the drivers were able to stop them, that is.

All Saturday night the city was apocalyptic with explosions, automatic gunshots and the baying of thousands of dogs. My mind was blank, I couldn’t write. I felt numb.
Sunday news broke that Aristide had left the country. The outraged Chimer were at large on the streets and terror chewed at the hotel. Where to go if they scaled the wall?
Reporters stayed in doors, wide-eyed. Screams at the big wrought-iron gate drew us to a man who had just been shot, blood welling from his pelvis.
Midday we watched helicopters landing at the palace and calm began to descend, though gunfire continued to crackle and black smoke billowed from the city square.
When we went out in the afternoon looters were ransacking shops, the streets were littered with debris, and bodies lay bleeding by the roadside.
Late Sunday night we heard the heavy thrum of US cargo planes overhead. I accompanied journalists to the airport Monday morning where about 150 US Marines had taken control. They stood around looking mean and macho in their fatigues and helmets. Their haversacks and trunks of ammunition lay in neat rows. A stack of Evian Water glittered in the early sunlight.
They were here to restore the rule of law, they told us, until a UN multi-national team takes over.

Later I witnessed the blazing arrival of Chamblain and Phillipe and their soldiers in 4x4 vehicles in the city centre. Thousands of jubilant people thronged the streets singing and dancing, burning posters of Aristide on bonfires while white doves flocked overhead.
Is this the end of another bout of oppression and brutality in the Haitian chronicles? Does a new era of harmony begin now?
Where are the heavily armed rebel forces that over-ran the northern half of the country two weeks ago, I asked a local writer in the sitting room of the Oloffson this morning.
“They are here, keeping a low profile, waiting for an opportunity to make a move.”
And Guy Phillipe, their good looking young commander, who is now speaking about Haiti as if it were his own country – is he a local hero?
“He is like a frying pan when there is a fire,” replied my friend philosophically. “You grab it because it is the only thing available to beat out the flames, but you don’t want to display it on the mantelpiece.”
My performers were arriving for their first English lesson – to enable them to get by in England during their three month tour beginning in June. Their smiling, eager faces brightened my spirits. In a country of so much pain and heaviness, what is needed more than anything is acknowledgement, investment and opportunity for growth. My conviction to end Vodou Nation on a positive note is stronger than ever.

Tonight the city is black. Gunshots puncture the silence and US Marines watch from the palace. The airports are going to remain closed for another five days.
It feels that this thing is not yet over.

this is from the article linked upthread as Here’s an article about Bush’s campaign against Aristide

Washington’s stated attitude to the uprising has been contradictory. On February 12, State Department spokesperson Richard Boucher declared that “reaching a political settlement will require some fairly thorough changes in the way Haiti is governed, and how the security situation is maintained”. The New York Times interpreted this to mean that “the Bush administration has placed itself in the unusual position of saying it may accept the ouster of a democratic government”.

the full article

In 1994, the US made a deal with Aristide. After agreeing to implement neoliberal economic policies, he was allowed to return, backed by 20,000 US troops. The US military showed little enthusiasm for righting past wrongs. According to Human Rights Watch, they impeded investigations into the slaughter of the previous three years by removing vital documents.

Aristide's substantial concessions, including agreement to implement International Monetary Fund structural adjustment programs, certainly cost him much of the loyalty of Haiti’s already impoverished people

Under the austerity programs, Haiti’s economic situation has considerably worsened. Prices increased by 40% in 2001-2002, while the minimum wage halved.

However, Aristide’s “reforms” were not enough to pacify the US imperialist elite, which continued to fund and support many of the leaders of the 1991 coup.

Their first excuse to attack Aristide came after the 2000 elections, in which the parliamentary opposition disputed the results in a number of seats. Although the alleged fraud would not have altered Aristide’s landslide election victory, international condemnation was quick and punitive. An aid embargo was imposed, costing the desperately poor country $500 million in loans.

When, in early February, armed gangs began attacking the police and taking control of cities, the stage was set for a US intervention.

the full article

France, with extensive business interests of its own in Haiti, appears to have played a key role in deciding when to move against Aristide. The March 5 Washington Post reported the French newspaper Le Monde’s claim that French “diplomatic suggestions” that Aristide should resign convinced Washington.

an article written on 15th January about Washington’s involvement in the ‘impending’ coup

Nor were the results of the legislative elections in 2000 in doubt: Aristide's party had also won in a landslide.? It was claimed that Aristide's party had stolen a few seats. If true -- and the allegation remains unproved -- it would be nothing different from what has occurred in dozens of countries around the world receiving support from the IMF, World Bank, and the US itself. By any standard, Haiti's elections had marked a step forward in democracy, compared to the decades of military dictatorships that America had backed, not to mention long periods of direct US military occupation

here

by saying that aid would be frozen until Aristide and the political opposition reached an agreement, the Bush administration provided Haiti's un-elected opposition with an open-ended veto. Aristide's foes merely had to refuse to bargain in order to plunge Haiti into chaos

I've linked this one because I thought it was interesting that just prior to American troops landing in Haiti, an Associated Press writer looked at the situation and concluded that Washington would not want to interfere with a democratically elected leader.

"Fears of huge death toll as earthquake rocks Haiti

Presidential palace and hospital among buildings reported to have collapsed"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fears-of-huge-death-toll-as-earthquake-rocks-haiti-1866219.html

Haiti is the most densely populated country in the Western Hemisphere and also the poorest. This is likely to be a bad, bad situation.

I feel awful for these people. They already have to deal with annual hurricanes, widespread poverty, no real hope for a way out. Haiti used to be 60% forest; now it's 2%. Haiti on left, Dominican Republic on right:

http://i49.tinypic.com/2hg4bhs.jpg

This is going to be awful : (

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=haiti&ss=2&s=rec

warning: gruesome and horrifying...

oh man

do what you can

bump

this basically looks pretty horrible all around. it's insane that if a 7.0 struck socal there would be devastation, sure, but nothing like this. it looks like the entire city of port-au-prince is just gone.

just....... horrible. haitians really didn't have it hard enough before this, did they?

For those interesting in helping immediately, simply text "HAITI" to "90999" and a donation of $10 will be given automatically to the Red Cross to help with relief efforts, charged to your cell phone bill.

I don't even have a phone.

it seems 100 UN officers in port-au-prince are missing after the headquarters building collapsed

grab someone else's phone, rabies

Yeah I'm gonna point it out to my gf when she gets off work.

for Brits: http://www.redcross.org.uk/donatesection.asp?id=102168

canada: https://www.paypaq.com/redcross/en/corporation/index.php?login=haiti&password=support

i just c/p'ed that from here btw: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34835478/ns/world_news-haiti_earthquake/

true story: i was spacing out on a train into nyc and this haitian guy asks me why I'm staring at him. then he asks me if I've ever seen a black person before. (I had, btw, at least 2.) then he tells me I should come visit haiti because it is warm and beautiful there.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/13/haiti.earthquake/index.html

Port-au-Prince, Haiti (CNN) -- "Port-au-Prince is flattened" after a 7.0-magnitude earthquake struck the Haitian capital, Haiti's consul general to the United Nations said Wednesday.

"More than 100,000 are dead," Felix Augustin told reporters.

The hospitals are gone, he added, and medical supplies and heavy equipment are desperately needed.

The Haitian prime minister said Wednesday several hundred thousand people may have died in the powerful earthquake.

"I hope that is not true, because I hope the people had the time to get out," Jean-Max Bellerive told CNN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ4dA6kZsEs

Every time I'm convinced "okay, THAT'S the most ridiculously stupid thing he's ever said," he tops himself.

True story.

he's an amazing troll

wtf why do tragedies bring out the extra crazy in televangelists? see also: Falwell, 9/11

why do tragedies bring out the extra crazy in televangelists?

Anything that happens is 'god's will' = it has to be interpreted accordingly.

i believe it is god's will that someone push that mfer down a tall flight of stairs.

although to be honest, when individuals known to be mental fuckwads say mental, fuckwaddy things, it barely even elicits a yawn anymore.

case in point:

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201001130018

(actually, this^ is pretty detestable)

Anything that happens is 'god's will' = it has to be interpreted accordingly.

god haits haiti

Every time I'm convinced "okay, THAT'S the most ridiculously stupid thing he's ever said," he tops himself.

Ditto for Rush. I refuse to click on that thread.

https://donate.pih.org/page/contribute/haiti_earthquake?source=earthquake&subsource=homepage

think we'll be organizing some kind of fundraiser here soon

fucking awful, literally just found out about this via fellow student who lived in Haiti for years and is worried sick about her friends

btw if you want to donate more than $10 (or just not have it on yr cellphone bill) the red cross' site will pull your saved payment info from amazon.com--pretty neat and donating will take less than a minute.

another good donation point is doctors w/o borders (MSF). they're gonna have their hands full down there.

I swear, as soon as I saw the news about Haiti, I said, "Wonder how long before the fundies start saying they were asking for it."

every day, the people of Haiti pray for more suffering to befall them

Shep Smith tells Robertson to eat a dick: http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201001130030

heard that some MSF docs are missing :(

rush fucking limbaugh now http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201001130018

wtf is wrong with right-wingers. are they *all* sociopaths?

Well, yeah.

I don't think it's really sunk in here just how bad this is, political leanings aside.

so what the hell evil act against god did we perpetrate to be saddled with limbaugh and robertson

Another aftershock happening now, CNN says.

red cross is saying this might be worse than mexico city '85???

mexico city quake killed about 10,000, they're suggesting 10 times as many in haiti (plus haiti doesn't have the infrastructure mexico had to deal with an event of this magnitude.)

the worst earthquake of modern times was this one:

The Tangshan Earthquake also known as the Great Tangshan Earthquake,[1] was a natural disaster that occurred on July 28, 1976. It is believed to be the largest earthquake of the 20th century by death toll.[2] The epicenter of the earthquake was near Tangshan in Hebei, People's Republic of China, an industrial city with approximately one million inhabitants. The number of deaths initially reported by the Chinese government was 655,000, but this number has since been stated to be around 240,000 to 255,000.

It wouldn't surprise me if it's that bad, tbh. Huge, dense (too dense) city, all of it built on the ultimate cheap. This is horror on a very large scale.

and the toll won't be just the people killed or hurt yesterday and today, it's going to be everything that comes next. the country was so fragile to start with, something like this could almost literally break it to pieces.

bump so u do not forget

and tipsy otm: the people that died ~in~ the quake will be the lucky ones (to be blunt). the public health structure in Haiti was so frightfully fragile-to-non-existent, that the aftermath is surely to be horrific. i earnestly hope that we see the same kind of global mobilization like we saw after the tsunami, but i'm pessimistic. no one gives a fuck about haiti.

CNN's Gary Tuchman reports that bodies are lying in the streets of Port-au-Prince. He says there are no emergency officials in sight, and residents are watching the flies to find out where to dig in the rubble.

no one gives a fuck about haiti.

tragically otm.

cf rush limbaugh using 100k dead as an excuse to zing obama and collaterally the dead 100k.

Not to defend Rush, AT ALL, but I think if the reporting was more thorough and explained how grave a situation we're talking about, not even Rush would have said that. He probably just thought it was a standard-issue natural disaster. Not so.

He'll backpedal a bit, I'm certain of it. But so what. Fuck him right in the ear.

how about maybe shotting him into the sun

like i'm not even going to click on those links because i am afraid i will punch my fucking computer

hang on this is...this is...i can't even get my head around this

get started

I'm googling around for where to send money. I don't trust that cell phone thing above.

the text thing comes from the state department website and goes to the red cross. if you want to give more than $10 or are afraid you can go to the red cross website http://american.redcross.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ntld_main&s_subsrc=RCO_ResponseStateSection

that these vile creatures can see no further than the length of their own political agendas, even while staring down a humanitarian crisis of unimaginable scale, a country literally crumbling to dust... are they even human themselves?

cell phone thing is legit. it was set up by the us state dept.

http://www.state.gov/p/wha/ci/ha/index.htm

xp

if someone runs over pat robertson with a mack truck several times, can we just presume it was because he had a pact with the devil?

what a despicable, evil man.

For fuck's sake why didn't Rush die from those chest pains.

enough about those cunts - what the fuck @ this earthquake, this is terrible

Thanks for the clarification and links re: cell phone contributions. I'm very given to distrusting my cell phone company.

well accidentally watched that pat robertson thing on another website and am going fucking apoplectic

rush is looking ill recently, i kinda "worry" about his health!

honestly i think pat robertson is going senile

i don't care

yeah there are def scams around i just posted it because i know it's easy to put stuff off and it's a small enough amount. that one and the wyclef one are legit.

actually, no, i do. because telling myself he's senile is probably the only thing making me believe that basically people are ok.

see that's what i try to think, otherwise i lose my shit. incredible asshole drivers = they're en route to the emergency room to see their grandmother. etc

yeah, i don't really believe that anymore.

haha if this is evidence of him going senile now he's been senile for decades, poor guy

yeah it doesn't help me actually...

Let's take a moment to imagine what Pat Robertson would have said if Haiti had been a white, Christian country.

No, nevermind, if it was that, they wouldn't have been getting fucked so hard for the last 500 years, and this would be a bad earthquake instead of something almost impossible to wrap your head around.

Let's take a moment to imagine what Pat Robertson would have said if Haiti had been a white, Christian country.

let's take a moment to stare into the mouth of madness and pure rage

pat robertson is the number 2 trending topic on twitter and NOT ONE person is defending him anywhere in the entire world. not one.
the most common retweet being "I thought "Pat Robertson" was trending because was dead. Turns out it's just because everyone wishes he was."

who knew that tweeting could feel so good

CNN's Gary Tuchman reports that bodies are lying in the streets of Port-au-Prince. He says there are no emergency officials in sight, and residents are watching the flies to find out where to dig in the rubble.

I really don't think we're able to predict just how bad this is going to be. I mean, Katrina was a straight mind-bludgeon that something that bad and that negligent could happen in the USA.

Not to make light of the sitch in NOLA, but this is going to make Katrina look like the acid trip sequence from Easy Rider. Fuck, this is really depressing.

And yeah, Pat Robertson should be banned from all media outlets. By Constitutional amendment, if need be.

The Constitution won't let us make a law like that, unfortunately.

my tommy gun will

j/k federal observers, i do not own a tommy gun nor have any desire to use one

xp Forming a militia now, are we?

Too much Montana, obv.

i still haven't watched footage/seen pics from this, i'm kinda not ready, tbh.

I WAS KIDDING

still think we should send him into the sun once we have the technology

I WAS KIDDING TOO

shhhh kenan the feds are watching u

Not really sure why this thread has become 2/3 devoted to Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson. Seems kind of besides the point.

xp "Guns don't kill people, the government kills people." -- Dale from King of the Hill

My first destination for international disaster related charitable giving is always the Red Cross. Is this in fact the best place to give?

Seems kind of besides the point.

You get a patch for honor. But what are we going to do? Besides give money? Which I have to believe helps.

Not really sure why this thread has become 2/3 devoted to Rush Limbaugh and Pat Robertson. Seems kind of besides the point.

pls allow me impotent rage

Yes, give to the Red Cross.

I didn't do myself any favors by going to Rush's website :\

it does help Kenan.

give to: MSF, PIH, Red Cross

I agree there isn't much to do, or say. I just hate the idea of talking about these fuckers and their smallness.

xpost

What really galls me is how big they are, though.

PIH is probably my choice, fwiw, but anything helps

gave $10, thanks for links and info upthread

kenan, haiti IS a christian country.

freaking out that there's not more i can do :(

xp I realized soon after I posted that I had used an unnecessary comma. I said "white, Chiristian country" when what I meant was "white Christian country."

Nevertheless, the perception persists that all Haitians practice voodoo.

And anyway they're rally poor! Something must be wrong with them.

I read the archdiocese of Port-au-Price died in the quake.

xpost

Archbishop that is.

kenan, haiti IS a christian country.

Also -- big difference between a Catholic country and a Protestant one, at least from where Pat Robertson sits.

enough

The Port-au-Prince Cathedral was destroyed

Before
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Papcathedrale.jpg

After
http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/56934134.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1263432095&Signature=NXNNUpIb7f%2FdIwFwCLQhwok73t4%3D

holy

btw kenan, not to be pedantic, but many haitians actually DO practice some kind of syncretic version of christianity and voodoo. my bro spent a lot of time down there (and in benin, where voodoo is thought to have originated, as well as in queens, where many recent immigrants live) the boundaries are blurrier than you might think

beside the point, however

jesus :C xp

oh wow

http://10.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kw738qewt51qzpwi0o1_500.jpg

but many haitians actually DO practice some kind of syncretic version of christianity and voodoo.

The western version of Christianity is filled with paganism, too. So, of course. But that's not a line that most western Christians would draw, and in fact would balk at.

well yeah but bear in mind that western christianity was pagan long before it was introduced to haiti

true, true. We still observe Druid holidays, ffs.

But yes, very beside the point.

Those pics, god.

btw kenan, not to be pedantic, but many haitians actually DO practice some kind of syncretic version of christianity and voodoo. my bro spent a lot of time down there (and in benin, where voodoo is thought to have originated, as well as in queens, where many recent immigrants live) the boundaries are blurrier than you might think

beside the point, however

― everybody's into weirdness right now (gbx), Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:12 PM (25 minutes ago)

and even if the don't themselves practice it, they may believe in it - as you probably know, gbx, lots of these people are loath to have bloodwork for this reason

I'd like to read something suggesting that the U.S. is sending loads and loads of help. Something approaching the scale of the problem.

And I'm reading that the European Union has pledged...4.4 million dollars?

4.4 million dollars?

This is fucking ridiculous.

The Pitt-Jolie foundation gave $1m.

I really hope there's some non-depressing reason for the EU's contrib being so pathetic (ie like the member states having separate budgets that limit them)

if you think that's bad wait til you hear about the grant from The Inter-American Development Bank.

$200,000!

wtf EU

Maybe the EU number is a very preliminary step. Like an immediate step followed by much more significant support coming very soon.

God, I hope so.

i earnestly hope that we see the same kind of global mobilization like we saw after the tsunami, but i'm pessimistic. no one gives a fuck about haiti.

― everybody's into weirdness right now (gbx), Wednesday, January 13, 2010 5:32 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I appreciate a lot of the work that the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation does, but it would be nice if they'd rise to the occasion during times like these and just donate, I don't know...2 billion dollars.

OTM

The pictures of Haiti running on the Miami Herald website are heartbreaking.

Andrew Sullivan links to this article with advice about donating to aid organizations for Haiti.

from their website:

Global Health--
Diarrhea CHECK
Health Science & Technology
HIV/AIDS BIGTIME
Malaria maybe? probably dengue, tbh
Maternal, Newborn, & Child Health yup
Neglected Diseases uh-huh
Nutrition poorest country in the western hemisphere iirc
Pneumonia & Flu
Polio
Tobacco
Tuberculosis totally
Vaccines probably?

I don't know much about this stuff, but I would imagine there are limits to the amount of aid and assistance that can reach people in the early stages. Haiti must have a weak infrastructure to start with, and perhaps little infrastructure at all now. I have no idea if these limits would be reached or even approached, but it is something to consider. My understanding is that aid drops off pretty quickly after the initial period and medium and long-term rebuilding doesn't get properly financed, which is a total tragedy.

xpost

One of the points made is in that article Sullivan linked to is that you should donate money to places that already have offices established in Haiti, rather than those who will have to get in and get setup before they can begin to be useful. Red Cross already had an office in Haiti...right? I assume and hope they do, because I just threw them some cash.

out of NYT just now Germany said it would make available 1.5 million euros, or about $2.2 million, for emergency assistance. so maybe the EU doesn't donate as much as individual countries do

Red Cross has an office in Haiti and regional headquarters in Panama, I believe.

My understanding is that aid drops off pretty quickly after the initial period and medium and long-term rebuilding doesn't get properly financed, which is a total tragedy.

qft

also, guys: PARTNERS IN HEALTH

Paul Farmer's org, has been in Haiti for a long time. Moreover, NOT in Port-Au-Prince, so I gather they've avoided the devastation that has crippled MSF's in country operations

Sorry, but 2.2 million dollars from Germany is still pathetic. Germany has the FOURTH LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD. GDP is a pretty lousy indicator, but their 2008 GDP was over 3.6 TRILLION dollars.

(Haiti's was almost 7 BILLION, btw)

i'm not defending them, just trying to figure out how the money flows

don't really know what that $2.2 M means though. they're giving that much cash but i'm assuming big countries are all sending military + doctors, food, hospital ships, and other stuff? i agree it looks bad.

yeah, me too xposst

I guess this rings really hollow to me, particularly today, because I listened to this arrogant fucker at work give a presentation at work about shitty mobile application he had developed for the low low cost of $100,000, despite the fact that it had been made clear months ago that the application he was developing was almost identical to an application that already existed and was available for free for iPhones. And no one gave a shit. $100,000, down the fucking drain, like it's nothing. And it IS nothing to the U.S., and Germany, and the E.U. 2.2 million dollars is 22 of these idiotic redundant mobile applications that no one will ever use.

^^^^^^^^^^

don't really know what that $2.2 M means though. they're giving that much cash but i'm assuming big countries are all sending military + doctors, food, hospital ships, and other stuff?

I hope you're right. I just keep checking the news waiting to hear about how everyone is swarming in to help, and...nothing.

Obama wants $22 billion so we can go kill more people in poor countries.

it's funny how the money never runs out for that

lol ;_;

"We have a long history that ties us together"

well played, Mr President.

yeah it's ridiculous...

iirc when the tsunami happened there was a gradual raising of stakes in terms of aid donations; america announced it was sending some ridiculously small amount, then japan far outstripped it with like $500m, and so america bumped its bid to fit in/not look like dicks. similarly i seem to recall that the british government's amount somehow correlated with public donations. so hopefully this is a tentative first step.

i hope so.

christ, it seems like all of the major landmarks just crumbled--the presidential house, the parliament, the cathedral. what's left? i can't recall a recent natural disaster when, aside from 1,000s of poor people in poor housing seeing their lives destroyed, you actually have many wealthy, well-positioned people suffering horribly--those in government, U.N. officials, etc.

i wonder whether even these major buildings were made with earthquakes in mind. although a 7.x earthquake striking just beneath a major city is likely to topple even the hardiest buildings.

Um, the local news has reported that help is on the way from the U.S.: A battleship left port in Virginia on Wednesday, headed to Haiti.

??

Local News in Flabbergasting Horrible News Shocka, I know. They also noted that experts say there is a 36 hour window to rescue people who may be trapped under rubble, and that 29 hours have passed. But don't worry the battleship is on the way.

i don't think the point of the battleship is immediate help! they started sending planes and helicopters with rescue people a while ago. the local news just wants to show you that because you're close to it.

You're right, of course. tbh I had one of those days at work that actually qualifies as "worst of the year", and I'm pretty much in the most pessimistic mood possible right now.

That said, this NYT article also mentions the aircraft carrier deployment as one of the lead examples of what the U.S. is doing, and contains this graf: "In addition, White House officials said the military was looking into sending the Southern Command’s hospital ship, the Comfort, in light of reports that most of Haiti’s medical facilities were severely damaged if not destroyed. The Coast Guard also dispatched four cutters."

I think it's safe to say that it would be appropriate to just go ahead and send the hospital ship, although looking into it is great and all.

I heard on NPR tonight a group of doctors from the University of Miami flew a charter plane into Haiti and set up a field hospital in the hangar at the Port Au Prince airport (? I thought the airport was out of action, so that geog. detail might be mistaken). They're making splints out of magazines and anything they can find.

Compare that to hearing the meeting that Bloomberg set up in Brooklyn with Haitain locals saying, well we can't do anything yet becaase we have to wait, etc etc... and I'm like...well, those doctors didn't wait and they seem to be helping.

And they talked to a local priest who knew the archbishop that died in the quake...he said they're already suffering with the destruction, and to know that we have lost our father makes it something else entirely. So fucking sad.

I could understand the need to wait. Organization, coordination, providing the RIGHT kind of aid and making sure it gets to the people who need it most all takes some time to figure out, I'm sure.

^Put another way, using finite resources in inefficient ways is not a good idea.

xxxpost:
(AP) — BALTIMORE - The Navy says a hospital ship based in Baltimore, the USNS Comfort, is being activated in case it's needed to support humanitarian operations in earthquake-stricken Haiti.

The Defense Department's U.S. Southern Command hasn't officially said the ship will sail.

But the Navy's Military Sealift Command says the Comfort is starting to "crew up" for a trip. Sealift Command spokeswoman Laura Seal says the ship could be ready by Monday.

A spokeswoman for Democratic Rep. C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger of Maryland says that's when the Maryland Port Administration expects the ship to leave.

First, however, the Navy must bring the crew up from about 70 to nearly 800-mostly doctors, nurses and technicians from the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda.
© 2010 Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.

am just heartbroken.

last year I worked with a missionary's daughter who grew up in Haiti. her family's alright but many of her friends are still mia and unaccounted for. this is terrible.

Author Ned Sublette who has written about Haiti (in his book on Cuban music) has been e-mailing about the situation. He recommends

>During this period, if you or anyone you know are planning to make a
>donation to assist those in need, please consider the Haiti Emergency
>Relief Fund. Donations will be forwarded to our partners on the ground to
>help them rebuild what has been destroyed. There are two ways to donate:
>By Pay Pal at: <http://www.haitiaction.net/About/HERF/1_12_10.html>; or
>Mail check made out to: "Haiti Emergency Relief Fund/EBSC" donations tax
>deductible - send mail to: East Bay Sanctuary Covenant / 2362 Bancroft Way
>/ Berkeley, CA 94704 // EBSC is a non-profit 502(c)(3) organization tax
>ID#94-3249753

Richard Morse, a Haitian-American who founded the Haitian band Ram, has been tweeting from Haiti-

http://twitter.com/RAMhaiti

Fox News headline this morning: "Anti-American Countries urge aid for Haiti."

Rush Limbaugh was pushing his own take yesterday as well regarding Haitians being more important to Obama than stopping the underwear bomber.

Also, Pat Robertson still scheduled to be special guest of incoming Virginia governor McDonnell at his inauguration.

Update | 10:21 a.m. Reuters reports that the “United States was sending 3,500 soldiers and 300 medical personnel to help with disaster relief and security in the devastated Caribbean capital, with the first of those scheduled to arrive on Thursday. The Pentagon was also sending an aircraft carrier and three amphibious ships, including one that can carry up to 2,000 Marines.”

oh & re: aid contributions:
Update | 10:12 a.m. The Associated Press reports that President Obama announced on Thursday that the United States government is making an initial $115 million in relief aid available to Haiti.

On Wednesday, The A.P. published a list of the aid already pledged to Haiti.

alright Bam that's a good start

am i a bad person for hoping that the silver lining from this might be a functioning public health infrastructure in Haiti, courtesy of Western donors?

or am i just delusional

i've been thinking the same thing, but even talking about it feels like a jinx.

one of my good friends works at a hospital and knows a lot of haitian guys, including one that i've chilled with a couple times. i asked him how they were doing. none of them had heard anything from the island. i can't even imagine that feeling....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_z2hpjXJ8&feature=player_embedded

from 0:20 the buildings starts to collapse

a good friend of mine from hs has family in haiti. he said theres a number at the state dept that you can call and they can try and check records, give you any news, but theres still so much to be done and so many people missing that its difficult to get hard news one way or the other.

am i a bad person for hoping that the silver lining from this might be a functioning public health infrastructure in Haiti, courtesy of Western donors?

or am i just delusional

more the latter. there'll be a big burst of aid, but it will peter out pretty quickly, and it won't even be enough to replace what's been destroyed, much less build something better. i don't think there's a silver lining in sight here. it's pretty clear the rest of the world, starting with the u.s., will tolerate just about any kind of horrible conditions in haiti. we get briefly interested every 4 or 5 years, when there's a disaster or a government collapses, but "doing" anything significant would require the kind of longterm focus and investment that we're just not going to make in a country of 9 million poor black people.

yeah :(

https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dDBZYTZlSDBMN2ZuNTk5cU40V3NKa3c6MA

my friend B3th and i just begged everyone in class today to give (funds will be matched), and it was really tough for her. when i asked her what she's heard she said "some good, some bad, but mostly we don't know anything"

http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2010/01/haiti-imagery-layer-now-available.html

Donated 20 bucks via Red Cross, certainly wish I could do more, but unemployment doesn't really allow that.

you done good man. this is just really hitting me hard for some reason.

If every person in the world who is able donated 20 bucks...

All the $10 and $20 Red Cross donations so far have added up to more than $3 million just from mobile users, so good on you. My wife and I gave $10 each.

can everyone plz ignore Pat Robertson unless you're going to kill him

Interesting: % of Red Cross mobile donations by state

http://mgive.com/HaitiGraphs/PercentDonations.html

this is just really hitting me hard for some reason.

― call all destroyer, Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:42 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah ditto

academic q, but: wonder if MN will see an influx of haitian refugees. we usually receive an influx after every major conflict/disaster

kinda depends on what names the state dept draws out of a hat, right? i thought that's how it worked. maybe cities with a lot of haitians will get more, but MN does have a good track record.

just off the top of the dome, a lot of MN's refugee populations are those where there was no prior community before, right? but i rly don't know what i'm talkin about

hey pancakes i see nothing when i go to that graph....what states donated the largest %?

CA, Ny, Fl, TX, (1,2,3,4)

this is just really hitting me hard for some reason.

― call all destroyer, Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:42 AM (19 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah ditto
--everybody's into weirdness right now (gbx)

Same here

I'd like to see that chart broken down by per-capita donations, it's no shock that the states with the largest populations have contributed the most.

yeah i was curious cause i always heard that boston is like the 3rd-largest haitian population center or something so i was wondering how we were doing.

kinda depends on what names the state dept draws out of a hat, right? i thought that's how it worked. maybe cities with a lot of haitians will get more, but MN does have a good track record.

just off the top of the dome, a lot of MN's refugee populations are those where there was no prior community before, right? but i rly don't know what i'm talkin about

― chartres (goole), Thursday, January 14, 2010 12:10 PM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i used to think it was random, but no: MN has the first or second largest per capita refugee population almost entirely because of charitable (mostly lutheran) organizations that arrange jobs/housing/etc for disastered populations. which is also why i'd like to see a per capita giving for that graph. Cali's population is seven times that of MN, but they're giving 11x more. Then again, I'm guessing that there's a much higher percentage of honkingly large personal or institutional donations coming from CA than there are from MN, which I bet is fielding mostly small personal donations

just wanted to rep for DWB:

http://doctorswithoutborders.org/

honestly this is when i want the full fucking weight of the us military brought to bear---aid cannot get into the country rapidly without functional airstrips, and everything i'm hearing is that there just aren't enough. let's go SeaBees, do yr thing

I think I am gonna sell some shit and then send the $$$ to Partners in health.

raised $350 in donations from classmates this morning, iirc

wtg man!!!

gonna be matched by an ~anonymous donor~ as well

granted, all i did was go up w/beth and say: there are donation cups by the door. also, at least three students (one of which was beth) did most of the heavy lifting, but still.

still wanna organize SOMEthing in the next couple of weeks, but school is busy ;_;

this is not charitable dick-waving, btw, just saying that it's possible to get cash from ppl pretty quickly and easily!

Finally you acknowledge that by stating your charitable deeds on earth you lose your rewards in the afterlife. (<---big concern for me at age five)

it's definitely not dick-waving! i don't think anyone here would take it as such.

Finally you acknowledge that by stating your charitable deeds on earth you lose your rewards in the afterlife. (<---big concern for me at age five)

― sedentary lacrimation (Abbott), Thursday, January 14, 2010 1:49 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

u____u

tbh I don't actually believe that

and you're an awesome dude

one of the awesomest

just wanted to rep for DWB:

Unnecessary levity: I first read this as "just wanted to rep for DMB" and I was like WTF?

I emailed our HR rep to find out if they'd do donation matching like we did for Tsunami...and if not, asked her to at least spread the word about texting $10 donations to Redcross. The more people the better!

My company increased their matching from 50% to 100% for Haiti donations. Woohoo!

TiGeorges Chicken (brilliantly great Haitian restaurant in Los Angeles) is having a fund raiser tonight.

So my wife put a link on Facebook to donate and within 5 minutes two people commented variations on "Why the hell should I bother? I believe the 100 million Obama sent is more than enough since I'm already paying for that!". And this is from Obama supporters. I'm shocked at the level of "oh lol another poor people earthquake *shrug*" going around.

ugh

i mean fine don't do anything whatever but getting haughty about someone suggesting that more aid would be helpful is just o_O

Those are some seriously inhumane people.

Obama's aid package is the equivalent of 35 cents per American or $1 per taxpayer. Those people are cheapskates who can't do math.

^^^^^^

And also don't understand how much it would cost to rebuild basically an entire city. How much will repairing or rebuilding the cathedral and the palace alone cost? Several tens of millions of dollars, at least?

yeah maybe do those last, huh

And also don't understand how much it would cost to rebuild basically an entire city. How much will repairing or rebuilding the cathedral and the palace alone cost? Several tens of millions of dollars, at least?

― Snake Effect Low (Pancakes Hackman), Thursday, January 14, 2010 3:47 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Prob; esp if they don't want it to fall down again :\

oh geez so I just found out my classmate's boyfriend is IN Haiti right now. was supposed to fly out on Tues I think. he's alive but obv stranded. she has remained remarkably composed. man what a thing

also apparently the afternoon lectures pulled another 260??!?!

ok so total is 850 before matching dang

Awesome!

v plzd tbh

good going from you and your classmates!

i just gave a tenner to the red cross which, although it's not much, is fairly significant from me since i never give to charity because i am a disgusting savage.

you are not a disgusting savage as
disgusting savages do not routinely cure four children of malaria, which is what you just did basically

sorry ;_;

So my wife put a link on Facebook to donate and within 5 minutes two people commented variations on "Why the hell should I bother?

man. just checked my facebook and it's kind of like.. i guess i'm posting this here because i don't want to get into it with people i know, especially in a public forum, but it seems to me that now is not the time to complain at length about how you don't like something someone said on television, or how you don't like that bush 43 was asked by clinton to team up in support of disaster relief. really? i mean, let it go.

haters gonna hate

do yr part and fuk em if they disagree

(ie I am trying to ignore the fact that these ppl exist and focus my energy on more productive shit)

good call. great job on all you've raised so far!

ok so I may have a general announcement to make soon (when I get home and am not on iPhone) that involves ilxors, PIH, and gift matching.

UKer's might like to know about http://www.dec.org.uk/ - a kind of umbrella donation site for various agencies.

Front page coverage of Haiti from today's Daily Mail:

http://www.twitpic.com/y5zng

Their readers just aren't that interested.

I am terribly sorry for these poor people, but you say Brown has pledged £10 million ? Where is this money coming from? I thought this country was broke? Didnt Brown only pledge £1 million for Cockermouth? I know the devastation wasnt quite so horrific there but our own people need the money to rebuild their lives. Give human support by all means but stop giving money away that we dont have!!!!!

- Helen, Plymouth, England

For non-UK readers you should now that Cockermouth was an horrific tragedy in which several people had their holiday homes flooded and one or two people even lost their land rovers. Also the corner shop was right out of bread for a whole weekend.

holy shit

:O i had not heard that about cockermouth, is there a site set up or anything where i can give?

Yes. And they'll throw in a wonder sticker for your car.

Window sticker...

Wonder sticker was more appropriate. What's the difference between Gift Aid and not Gift Aid?

aw i kinda wanted a wonder sticker.

oh wait it's TAX. BASTARDS. I HATE TAX lol

holy crap

have collected close to 1500 to be matched

0_O

Wonderful! You certainly deserve a wonder sticker my friend!

xp that is awesome dude.

“This sounds to me like open borders advocates exercising the Rahm Emanuel axiom: ‘Never let a crisis go to waste.’ Illegal immigrants from Haiti have no reason to fear deportation but if they are deported, Haiti is in great need of relief workers and many of them could be a big help to their fellow Haitians.”

— Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, in an e-mail message to ABCNews.

okay now

Can we arrange to have him devoured by wolves?

Or, really, just dogs? I'm not picky.

Piranhas.

i'm not gonna deport you but let's just say hypothetically that you found yourself on a plane bound for haiti maybe that wouldn't be so bad

Rush still has a contract with Armed Forces radio, I believe? Maybe it's worth cancelling that for inappropriate conduct/content. He don't need no Gubmint money, right?

would never happen

wait what did he do now

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2010/01/15/2010-01-15_rush_limbaugh_haiti_earthquake_comments_are_really_stupid_says_white_house_press.html

ie pretty much exactly what you'd expect

<3 u Roger Ebert:

A Letter to Rush Limbaugh
/ / / January 14, 2010

To: Rush Limbaugh
From: Roger Ebert

You should be horse-whipped for the insult you have paid to the highest office of our nation.

Having followed President Obama's suggestion and donated money to the Red Cross for relief in Haiti, I was offended to hear you suggest the President might be a thief capable of stealing money intended for the earthquake victims.

Here is a transcript from your program on Thursday:

Justin of Raleigh, North Carolina: "Why does Obama say if you want to donate some money, you could go to whitehouse.gov to direct you how to do so? If I wanted to donate to the Red Cross, why do I have to go to the White House page to donate?"

Limbaugh: "Exactly. Would you trust the money's gonna go to Haiti?"

Justin: "No."

Rush: "But would you trust that your name's gonna end up on a mailing list for the Obama people to start asking you for campaign donations for him and other causes?"

Justin: "Absolutely!"

Limbaugh: "Absolutely!"

That's what was said.

Unlike you and Justin of Raleigh, I went to Obama's web site, and discovered the link there leads directly to the Red Cross. I can think of a reason why anyone might want to go via the White House. That way they can be absolutely sure they're clicking on the Red Cross and not a fake site set up to exploit the tragedy.

But let me be sure I have this right. You and Justin agree that Obama might steal money intended for the Red Cross to help the wretched of Haiti.

This conversation came 48 hours after many of us had seen pitiful sights from Port au Prince. Tens of thousands are believed still alive beneath the rubble. You twisted their suffering into an opportunity to demean the character of the President of the United States.

You have a sizable listening audience. You apparently know how to please them. Anybody given a $400 million contract must know what he is doing.

That's what offends me. You know exactly what you're doing.

OK, when I was suggesting the termination of any gov't contract Rush might currently enjoy, I hadn't yet found out he also said THAT.

Back in May, he said this about Bill Clinton's appointment as special envoy to Haiti: “I’m just gonna tell you, if I was named envoy to Haiti, I’d quit government. Envoy to Haiti? You can’t even pick up a prostitute down there without genuine fear of AIDS. This is not Clinton’s place.”

At what point does this man suffer some sort of status penalty?

freedom of speech, y'all

Any article that begins with "You should be horse-whipped" earns an A+++ from me.

Que, dude has the right to say whatever he wants to, but gov't can choose not to throw business his way and wouldn't be restricting his personal freedoms if the contract were cancelled or simply not renewed.

ebert has turned from a national treasure into something even treasure-er recently

hes turned into national treasure 2: book of secrets

i can't imagine the public outcry if the Armed Forces radio ditched Limbaugh--it would never ever ever happen. i'm sure he is popular with the armed forces. and though his comments are nasty and despicable, canceling his show would be censorship

Que OTM, sadly.

they could move his show to the middle of the night and broadcast the sound of a braying jackass in his old timeslot, see how long it took people to notice

i can't imagine the public outcry if the Armed Forces radio ditched Limbaugh--it would never ever ever happen. i'm sure he is popular with the armed forces. and though his comments are nasty and despicable, canceling his show would be censorship

― that sex version of "blue thunder." (Mr. Que), Friday, 15 January 2010 22:05 (4 minutes ago) Permalink

But isn't the programming determined by the military brass? How can it be censorship if all the programming is determined by a few people anyway?

if they cancel his show because of the jackass stuff he says, it's censorship

It doesn't matter if its truly "censorship" in the strictest definition of the word, Rush fans will scream it anyway.

It only isn't censorship if he violates a law or a regulation.

Surely they can fuck with his timeslot, though.

ugh I keep looking at "timeslot" and thinking "coinslot" ugh

and on that note HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND EVERYBODY

Have we covered this already? http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0114102wyclef1.html

Wyclef's YELE isn't the charity it's purported to be.

I'm still not convinced that this would be a 'censorship' issue, as he would still be free to broadcast to commercial markets. Therefore it's a subsidy issue or a morale issue. But yeah I know there would be a dittohead outcry if they yanked the AFR contract; just have to hope that those comments make him less popular with serving soldiers. Wesley Clark tried a campaign to get Rush yanked a couple of years ago but like everything else Wes has tried, meh.

Happy for him to keep his slot if I can see him being publically horsewhipped.

public outcry if the Armed Forces radio ditched Limbaugh--it would never ever ever happen

I'm in one of my 'you know the Right is right, I need to get a high powered sniper rifle' moods. The man is Satan's monkey and should be shot. Repeatedly.

Horsewhipping is unhumane, a simple .30-06 perforation in his head would be.

smdh.. what i think is, rush limbaugh should not be part of the haiti story. i mean, rush limbaugh will say more ignorant shit next week, and the next, and the next, and it's just what he does and what he's always done.

Actually, I'd just like to see him seriously humiliated in public, HIS public, but I have fonder sentiments about dried pond scum than I do about him today.

And daria is right, giving ANY attention to this parasite when there IS a real story of human devastation is a needless and foolish distraction.

There's a reasonable point in this article about being careful with how you donate and how you restrict your donations, but "Don't give money to Haiti" is a stupid fucking headline for it. http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/01/15/dont-give-money-to-haiti/

Yeah, thats downright irresponsible.

Damn David Brooks gets to be on PBS and NPR as some kind of moderate conservative and then he says factually unsupported crap like this:

As Lawrence E. Harrison explained in his book “The Central Liberal Truth,” Haiti, like most of the world’s poorest nations, suffers from a complex web of progress-resistant cultural influences. There is the influence of the voodoo religion, which spreads the message that life is capricious and planning futile. There are high levels of social mistrust. Responsibility is often not internalized. Child-rearing practices often involve neglect in the early years and harsh retribution when kids hit 9 or 10.

We’re all supposed to politely respect each other’s cultures. But some cultures are more progress-resistant than others, and a horrible tragedy was just exacerbated by one of them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/opinion/15brooks.html?em

Isn't Haiti about 60-70% Catholic?

That sounds accurate.

Harrison and Brooks blaming Haitian vodou religion rather than say colonialism is ridiculous and I don't know where they got that child-rearing thing from. Yes there's less poverty in the Dominican Republic, But Brooks makes it sound like that country is a country club now (rather than one which still has lots of poverty), and he wrongly suggests that it has suffered through the same number of problems as Haiti. Ugh.

also hey david brooks just as a heads up do u think it might be possible that a certain cultural fatalism might itself be a product of economic/structural pressures that make haitian life ~as it is lived~ appear pretty capricious? like if i'm totally poor and my bro died at a young age of a curable disease, and my mom and uncle etc, and i just sorta observe that most people don't live too long and are in general at the mercy of forces beyond their control, maybe it would make sense to me to adopt a worldview that tries to explain that

or: http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/314/7089/1271

In comparisons among Chicago neighbourhoods, homicide rates in 1988-93 varied more than 100-fold, while male life expectancy at birth ranged from 54 to 77 years, even with effects of homicide mortality removed. This "cause deleted" life expectancy was highly correlated with homicide rates; a measure of economic inequality added significant additional prediction, whereas median household income did not. Deaths from internal causes (diseases) show similar age patterns, despite different absolute levels, in the best and worst neighbourhoods, whereas deaths from external causes (homicide, accident, suicide) do not. As life expectancy declines across neighbourhoods, women reproduce earlier; by age 30, however, neighbourhood no longer affects age specific fertility. These results support the hypothesis that life expectancy itself may be a psychologically salient determinant of risk taking and the timing of life transitions.

obv not exactly the same, but the point stands: if you can only expect yr life plans to be thwarted by shit you cannot in any way address, then yr gonna be fatalist

also, guys, voodoo isn't a bad word. i know it gets played up a lot in the media, but the fact is that much of haitian life IS informed by voodoo. not like everyone is sacrificing chickens all over the dang place, but like respectable church going grannies still believe (though they may not ~like~) in witch doctors and zombies and what have you.

not that anyone is really doing this but: getting defensive on haitians behalf when someone mentions voodoo is backhanded (and unintentional) culture chauvinism. "how dare he say that people practice voodoo! why, they're mostly christian down there!"

(btw my knowledge of this is NOT first-hand, so grains of salt. my friend is an anthro jd/phd who has studied voodoo for years, and has told me that SOME sort of belief in (or deference to) voodoo cultural practice is very tightly woven into what it means to be Haitian)

voodoo's basically a syncretic mashup of catholicism and various african traditions anyway isn't it?

also lol @ the idea that "life is capricious and planning futile" is somehow unique to voodoo and not present, in some form, in fairly major schools of all of the world's religions

btw kenan, not to be pedantic, but many haitians actually DO practice some kind of syncretic version of christianity and voodoo. my bro spent a lot of time down there (and in benin, where voodoo is thought to have originated, as well as in queens, where many recent immigrants live) the boundaries are blurrier than you might think

beside the point, however

― everybody's into weirdness right now (gbx), Wednesday, January 13, 2010 7:12 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

basically: yes.

smdh @ david brooks
boring conservative with no curiosity about, or respect for, any culture beyond whatever is middle class, tasteful, and found in bethesda md. yet he writes about religion and culture in haiti like he knows what he's talking about. i don't understand this.

his column on french hip hop back when those riots were happening was also insightful + relevant

So I have reviewed for DC newspapers various Haitian bands over the years-Djakout Mizik, Boukman Experyans, Beethova Obas, T-Vice, Top Vice, and others. I am trying to find out more info on how they are doing. Not that their fate is any more important than any others, but I am curious if anyone sees or hears anything. Sadly some have lost their lives and others are missing. I've been posting on ilm here:

Rolling Global Sublime Whirled "World" Music Thread 2010(with an emphasis on African likely)

I wonder if the big Haitian compas concert that was supposed to happen in Miami, Florida happened today?

things are looking pretty dire :(

Seeing those two imperialist criminals tapped by Bam as figureheads for Haitian relief in the Rose Garden yesterday really warmed the cockles of my heart. I'd love to send the pair of em into Port-au-Prince w/out Secret Service.

Jesus Christ dude you think you could set that shit aside for even this?

things are looking pretty dire :(

― I can't turn my face into a shart (dyao), Sunday, January 17, 2010 1:17 AM (10 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah :(

xp rage, resentment, spleen

jon, THEY are not "setting it aside."

THEY and their predecessors made Haiti what it is and kept it that way.

Okay, I think I misread your intentions with that post. Apologies.

np.

So Drs w/out Borders says make all donations 'unrestricted' cuz they met their Haiti cash quota? What difference can new donations make now, then? (I'm srsly asking.)

yeah, i was wondering the same thing, morbs---i still think that giving to Partners In Health is worthwhile: they've got a nearly 30 year investment in ~long-term~ Haitian healthcare, and will be there after everyone else forgets about Haiti, again.

yo i'm goin back upthread but gbx thanks for taking apart brooks so thoroughly--that guy is a fuckin retard

i was *just* about to say that

:)

saying that Brooks is a retard is something that can't be said enough

I wish someone could challenge Brooks on one of the tv or radios shows he always manages to get on.

and thing is, what rankles most, is that I think his sentiments actually resonate with a lot of ppl. not in a malicious way, but in a lazy way; if someone says Haiti hasn't prospered because of cultural reistance, I honestly think that there are loads of otherwise kind and decent people that will nod and go hmm yeah that sounds plausible. if you gave them the facts they'd probably believe you, but generally it's just easier to go "well they ~do~ believe in zombies I mean srsly" than it is to square up with reality

wish I could dig up that nabisco otm post on Brooks. it is...otm

yeah it doesn't really stand out from other coverage of this whole thing, sadly

my friend was able to talk to his grandma, thank god

oh good!

I am worried about my friends partner. he is alive but he was in Haiti to renew his visa. his documents were lost in the quake and, while this not an immediate concern, it seems unlikely that he will be able to return easily, or soon.

i remember seeing a documentary on cbc that was criticizing the relief efforts for the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake. it had some interesting points (but i forgot most of it), like the need for the orgs to get images to keep the money coming, to the detriment of ppl living in less photogenic sinistered places, sub-optimal distribution of and other miscommunications . it featured a heroic doctor that was doing many surgeries in the country without proper equipment. anyone have seen it?

no but I would like to!

seb yr French right? curious: do you have any idea of how hard it is to learn kreyol if you already speak (poorly in my case) French?

french is a good part of it but i find it hard to figure out what is being said. like, i just tried to read something "Manman m al lavil, li kite pitit la nan men papa m, mwen menm avèk lòt timoun yo." : figured the mom left the kid to the father, but i had no way to know there were other kids in there, too. it's weird but i feel the ongoing developments of texting in french could be of help, here.

yeah see I pulled "mother" and "petite" from that. dang.

re:txtng: like, kite and avèk reads cool.

also, general q: my friend is planning on putting on the white coat and knocking on doors for PIH.

he's thinking about collecting cash, I think he should just hand out cards with links to PIH's donation page. If you, ilxor, had two "medical students" (who knows where they got those coats!) knocked on your door, what would make you more likely to give money or, at least, give a shit?

re:txtng: like, kite and avèk reads cool.

???

god bday hangover makes me not write so good

xp i would probably be more likely to donate online. the white coat is kinda weird. and if they had no credentials or anything....

happy bday btw!

well the white coat has the name of the university on it and telegraphs that the canvassers are real live medical students who Give A Shit. as opposed to you know normals or whatever. I am not participating fwiw, but I've been asked to give feedback.

I agree, I think that encouraging online giving is more legit, and that legitimacy will get results. I mean I love being charitable or whatever but I actually kinda hate it when ppl knock on my door.

also: thx!

yeah i don't like knocks on the door either. but in a case where i did answer the door i would expect credentials from the charity tbh, not just the school, before i gave any cash.

xpost just saying that knowing some texting stuff in french helped me figure out some words and i i find that aesthetically pleasing .
some examples in plain french: chu = je suis. ché = je sais. po =pas ki =qui. etc
http://french.about.com/library/writing/bl-texting.htm

ditto. xp

whoa that is kinda next level seb.

so yr saying that text-speak in French actually maps somewhat to kreyol? cool!

text-speak is more phonetic spelling for efficiency & prob also affected by it being used by young people, who use slang words that have origins in arabic and/or african languages, those also tend to be spelled more phonetically. that's been my observation. also the "chu" didn't make sense to me until i thought about how it'd actually be pronounced in everyday speech esp by younger people, kinda run together "je suis au ___" = "chui au"

"li kite pitit la nan men papa m,"

what does this mean? "left the little kid there with his/her father"?

also the "chu" didn't make sense to me until i thought about how it'd actually be pronounced in everyday speech esp by younger people, kinda run together "je suis au ___" = "chui au"

ahhhh. yeah, i was baffled by that

Sorry to butt in here, but I just want to mention this thread inspired me to make a donation to the Haiti Emergency Relief Fund linked to above. Honestly, up to this point I have been experiencing a bit of global suffering burnout and have my reservations about giving to groups like the Red Cross, but you all have made it clear these folks desperately need help and I'm glad to give to an established progressive relief group in my area. Thanks for lighting a small fire under my ass.

Happy birthday gbx! Will buy you pretty purple fenders now.

What's the status w/ bottlenecking, not having enough people to unload supplies, etc.? Also, is there a current death count? Last I heard donations/resources were plentiful but it was v difficult to actually get them there.

50k is what i've heard, but who knows really

http://msf.org/msfinternational/invoke.cfm?objectid=3E14BA8A-15C5-F00A-25CBB3FB8EEC07AB&component=toolkit.article&method=full_html

far as i know that's the situation re bottlenecks at the airport, they're doing the best they can.. military has been able to clear some areas in p-au-p for landing helicopters..

good on you for donating some money. it's going to be a years-long project in any case so it'll be needed. also afaik it's better to make unrestricted donations to groups like red cross, doctors without borders - i heard that red cross still has millions left from tsunami relief donations that they would prefer to spend in other disaster areas but cannot, as it was earmarked by donors for that effort only.

yeah that was the word from that (irresponsibly headlined) article upthread.

I will continue to stan for pih.

My uncle's a photographer for the AP and he's been over there covering the whole thing. He just finally updated us via facebook. In response to a family member expressing worries about how much a toll all of this devastation is taking on his spirit he said:
"Oh...they wake me up at night with beautiful singing. They are all sleeping in the streets and they sing together. It is beautiful and haunting. When worst gets worse, the Haitians summon more hope from an apparently endless reserve. God Bless 'em all..."

the coverage of this on 60 min. is pretty gruesome

There are pictures on the wires that sickened me like no pix I've seen before, and some nasty shit comes in on the wire. There's one of an empty-eyed rescue worker throwing the body of a boy onto a pile of corpses that's still haunting me hours later.

I understand why none of them will get published, but at the same time some of these are like the picture the Sunday Times ran of the Iraqi who'd been burnt to death by a US airstrike. They got a lot of flack for printing it, but it helped readers realise that it wasn't the war they were imagining. I think a lot of people still don't realise how horrific the aftermath of this is getting.

So Drs w/out Borders says make all donations 'unrestricted' cuz they met their Haiti cash quota? What difference can new donations make now, then?

If people continue to give funds and designate them for Haiti, DWB can't legally spend them on anything BUT Haiti, and if they've already got everything they need for that, those funds just sit their unspent. If people give unrestricted funds, DWB can use them for any disaster or program anywhere in the world.

i have difficulty believing that MSF won't be in Haiti for a very, very long time to come.

buncha savages

oof

"It was hard enough to sit and eat a picnic lunch at Labadee before the quake, knowing how many Haitians were starving," said another. "I can't imagine having to choke down a burger there now.''

WTF did she get a cruise that stopped off at Haiti for to start with if she had such a moral outrage about their conditions, jesus.

Good to see those ships can get supplies in though at least...

So wait, the tsunami money that Red Cross has legally can't be spent on anything else? Does the money sit there forever??

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-zelinsky/helping-haiti-help-itself_b_426643.html

^^^ jeff is my bro, please spread this around to your friends

i will spam this thread and nothing will stop me

please don't stop!

As soon as I get some more money in my hands, another $20 is certainly going to PiH!

yes!

yeah the 60 minutes is bleurgh. bulldozers carrying bodies, guy using hacksaws to saw off legs, sterilizing instruments w/ vodka o_O

i have been avoiding all visual coverage :-/

what the hell is wyclef jean doing

Sending powerbars by fedex, from the look of it

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti – The staggering scope of Haiti's nightmare came into sharper focus Monday as authorities estimated 200,000 dead and 1.5 million homeless in the heart of this luckless land, where injured survivors still died in the streets, doctors pleaded for help and looters slashed at one another in the rubble.

holy jesus 200k

Uggh I saw footage of the bulldozers it's just...

:( i hope that boy they showed anderson cooper carrying ended up ok

yeah it's like beyond yr imagination right xp

xp thankfully i havent seen any dead body pile footage, i'd just lose it

I looked at a flickr photostream from the PIH e-mail, it was pretty gruesome and there weren't even any dead bodies in it (AFAICT)

the thing on 60 minutes was just a few seconds of them describing how they were just moving them all to this one place

there was a v grim report on fox today from steve harrigan who was watching as they moved bodies into mass graves. it is on that mediaite site right now. awful stuff, but that is the reality. seems that so much infrastructure was destroyed or not there to begin with.. they just can't get to a lot of places.

I saw another awful report on a nursing home that was mostly destroyed with survivors lacking all necessities. These poor elderly people were just lying on the ground waiting to die. Horrible. And a news story about a Dutch search and rescue team that tried to find survivors in a school, and a local man said there were 40 children in the school when the earthquake struck, but "you came too late."

Anderson Cooper is frustrated that the UN did not let doctors in sooner

The report I saw on the debts that France, the US and other countries were making Haiti pay back for years and years was amazing.

I did hear that as of yesterday more than 11 million had been given in text message donations - that was nice

23 million iirc

happy to be wrong about that

yeah i was watching anderson cooper. it's weird, he's upset like we're on the ground here, and don't understand why things aren't getting done, i'm just trying to put the pieces together, are all these agencies just too bureaucratic, what's going on? and i'm thinking.. YOU WORK AT CNN ASK THEM

going to check bbc for actual information now

man

http://gawker.com/5451086/john-travolta-to-airlift-desperately-needed-e+meters-to-people-of-haiti

i am just gonna lol because srsly what else is there you know

ya kind of a tossup between lol and facepalm

you guys laugh but i bet the people of haiti are seriously stressed right now

Miami Herald doing some solid work in the last week. Here's a piece on the loss of political activists, musicians, etc....(just the tip of the iceberg of course):

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/haiti/v-fullstory/story/1432784.html

just went through the NYT slideshow

man

The big picture has some strong stuff as well

My friend Kevin is a writer for Stars & Stripes, just tweeted this. The magnitude of this whole thing is incomprehensible to me.

Okinawa-based US Marine lance cpl's Haitian wife, 7 mos pregnant, slept outside w dead bodies, no food for days. http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=67345

many ppl I've talked to don't really have any idea just how bad it is. like think only a "few" thousand died not 200k

http://twitter.com/PIH_org

But United States officials say they worry that in the coming weeks, worsening conditions in Haiti could spur an exodus. They have not only started a campaign to persuade Haitians to stay put, but they are also laying plans to scoop up any boats carrying illegal immigrants and send them to Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

....

The State Department has also been denying many seriously injured people in Port-au-Prince visas to be transferred to Miami for surgery and treatment, said Dr. William O’Neill, the dean of the Miller School of Medicine at the University of Miami, which has erected a field hospital near the airport there.

“It’s beyond insane,” Dr. O’Neill said Saturday, having just returned to Miami from Haiti. “It’s bureaucracy at its worse.”

From the New York Times

get ready for another shameful few years of gitmo dudes

this shit is gonna morbs me right up

urgh. btw thanks for the donation push, gbx. pih is great (i used to work at their US-based project). i also gotta rep for Oxfam America. first of all b/c my wife works there. second b/c they're v. good and v. efficient. they have a presence in haiti supporting & working with grassroots projects, and their focus in the immediate aftermath of the quake is simple: get clean water to the people. http://www.oxfamamerica.org/

will check it out thx CG. did you know my pal j3ff k4hn (wrote the huffpost ed upthread)? he's worked in Haiti for a while but I think his time with pih was domestic. woulda been five years ago I think?

What I'm wondering now is what is going to happen a month from now when most immediate health/resource needs have been taken care of? Where are people going to go? What exactly is going to happen? This seems like a really scary no-mans-land

xp. the name rings a bell, gbx. program i worked in was based in codman square; and i didn't get to know all the folks working in pih's HQ.

Stevie I wonder the same thing. xp

yeah that is the $900m question.

ALL infrastrucure will have to be rebuilt in a city of four million. I don't have numbers, but I infer from the coverage that basically most buildings have collapsed and those that remain ought to be considered highly unstable and should be knocked down prophylactically. The streets are impassable and filled with the dead. Water is coming from...the country? Deforestation has iirc made Haiti a pretty arid place. Which also compromises the indigenous food supply (tho for all I know they've been importing food for ages per the usual World Bank schema).

If hundreds of thousands have died in the last week, that many again can expect the same if foreign powers don't make a concerted effort to
a) accept refugees. likely permanently.
b) aggressively rebuild (tho here you get into some shock doctrine territory)
c) keep the peace during the very likely to be violent scramble for resources.
d) forgive the debt incurred by this AND the one that has already accrued.

Otherwise, well, man.

also Stevie while I have heaps of faith in the medicos and orgs down there providing aid, there is no way haitis health problems are going away in a month or even six. Disasters always pull a train of secondary health problems, most (iirc) water related. Overlay that on a population that has a horrifying AIDS rate (and associated problems with TB) and you've got health problems to occupy a generation of physicians.

Part of me thinks that the best thing for Haiti would a diasporic (not a word?) release valve. Damaging culturally but while no one likes an immigrant, I still think many would be better of grudgingly accomodated by Western healthcare systems than they would by the nonexistent system in now and future Haiti.

lol tho of course this won't happen

oh God :(

the more I learn the more saddo I get about this whole thing

OMFG @ this: http://blog.nj.com/njv_bob_braun/2010/01/a_father_in_haiti_works_to_fin.html

well that's horrible

I dunno but this is affecting me way more than other recent horrible things (of which there is an unending supply). it's infuriating

Journalist friend of mine told me earlier that a senior UN official is briefing that Haiti is essentially uninhabitable, and will be for the long-term foreseeable. He stopped short of the "and so should be abandoned" stuff that was bandied about after Katrina, though. Can't find a cite of it anywhere online.

Really said Haiti as a whole and not just Port-au-Prince?

I was wondering about that myself- was the rest of Haiti devastated like p-a-p?

Yeah, I asked that too, and he seemed positive it was Haiti in general.

There are certainly many refugees heading from the capital to more inhabitable parts ... and cruise liners docking.

I suppose the thinking being that if you abandon Port-au-Prince the rest becomes pretty untenable - the second-largest city after it had about 100,000 residents.

the justifications in the cruise story are so blindly self-serving it's like a bad black comedy dystopia.

the only reason i can see why ~Haiti~ should be abandoned and not just PAP would be because, yeah, the city with half the country's population no longer functionally exists, and the rest of the country may not be able to pick up the slack. still, v strong words imo

and yes, the cruise ship justifications are pretty....well, kinda lol, mostly despicable

though i guess if i were already ON said cruise, i could see the human need to rationalize your existence, cuz otherwise it could be some bleak times w/r/t your self-worth

this might be of interest but i haven't listened to it and don't really feel like it :-/

oh i thought it was a longer thing, n/m

fucked up shit this century, mang, we've seen one major, classic city effectively destroyed by nature and now it's happened to an entire country.

very impressed by gbx's fundraising.

What I'm wondering now is what is going to happen a month from now when most immediate health/resource needs have been taken care of? Where are people going to go? What exactly is going to happen? This seems like a really scary no-mans-land

― kate moss and heavy machinery in a dessert (Stevie D), Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:51 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

yeah. the narrative coming from the left (see morbius upthread) is that this will be another case of shock doctrine. so if the us does try to help build (rebuild, up to a point) infrastructure, it'll be evidence of imperialism. but in the land of the sane, disengagement would be monstrous.

btw would recommend reading Pathologies Of Power if yr feeling like you want to get more angry

and thx, nrq, but all i did was send an email and have a willing donor to match

but yr right: the threat of the Shock Doctrine might be real, but disengagement of any kind is 100% not an option afaiac

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/01/18/world/americas/0118-haiti-assess-maps.html#tab=0

maybe this was asked and answered already, but was there any major damage or any damage at all in the DR?

not that i've heard. the DR isn't far (30 miles??) but i think the areas closest to the fault are sparsely populated

also god that boston.com big picture stuff is heartbreaking

heavy, nsfw

holy. that picture doesn't look real.

j fucking c at that picture

fuck

oh my god, that is breaking my heart

that is the world as it is, right now

haiti, wtf

jesus

From a 2008 article:

The Haitain (food) crisis is so extreme it forces people to eat (non-food) mud cookies (called "pica") to relieve hunger. It's a desperate Haitian remedy made from dried yellow dirt from the country's central plateau for those who can afford it. It's not free. In Cite Soleil's crowded slums, people use a combination of dirt, salt and vegetable shortening for a typical meal when it's all they can afford. A Port-au-Prince AP reporter sampled it. He said it had "a smooth consistency (but it) sucked all the moisture out of (my) mouth as soon as it touched (my) tongue. For hours (afterwards), an unpleasant taste of dirt lingered." Worse is how it harms human health. A mud cookie diet causes severe malnutrition, intestinal distress, and other deleterious effects from potentially deadly toxins and parasites.

Another problem is the cost. This stomach-filler isn't free. Haitians have to buy it, and "edible clay" prices are rising - by almost $1.50 in the past year. It now costs about $5 to make 100 cookies (about 5 cents each), it's cheaper than food, but many Haitians can't afford it.

Big aftershock being reported.

Those boston.com photos are (as always) astonishing and some of the captions are beyond WTF.

A man pulls the body of an earthquake victim from a coffin in order to steal the coffin at the cemetery in Port-au-Prince, Friday, Jan. 15, 2010

jesus christ. it's apparently 6.1 (which is very serious). fuck.

xpost

Still coming to terms with those photos. Sitting at my desk with tears in my eyes. So fucking useless and so in awe of people who drop everything to go and actually do useful stuff instead of what I do.

Fuck.

everyone is useful to those around them, dude, i wouldn't worry too much about it. unless of course you're designing earthquakes in which case shame on you, ned, ~shame on you~

news seems to indicate that the aftershock was more frightful than it was destructive---most buildings went down in the initial quake, and the vast majority of people appear to have had the good sense to avoid the ruins since then. i hope

Violinist Romel Joseph spent 18 hours trapped in the rubble, reciting every concerto he'd ever played...

http://www.miamiherald.com/486/story/1436927.html

DV's meta comment: when I was in Portugal last weekend, there was a lot of TV news about Haiti, with CNN being the only English-language channel. I was struck by how emo their coverage was - everyone was going on about how they *felt* about the earthquake, whether it was anchorpeople, local correspondents, politicians, representatives of aid agencies, whatever. The other news coverage seemed much more like it was reporting stuff that was going on, though they were all talking in foreign so I can't be sure.

I am also interested in the suggestion that Haiti's descent into terrifying violent lawlessness is a bit overstated: The myth of Haiti's lawless streets

This story is also interesting: Haiti escaped prisoners chased out of notorious slum

i think in general "violence in the streets" following disasters is overstated. cf the looting thread

I think it's partly because we have read too many John Wyndham novels.

What a relief to read that cruise liners can still find a safe haven away from all the looting and dying.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/17/cruise-ships-haiti-earthquake

yeah, noted upthread. despicable savages.

Oh I missed that. I suppose it's just one of those weird coincidences. Still, I'm not sure I'd be very happy breaking out the barby on the beach (if anyone actually did that). Having said that 60 miles is long way away? And those cruises are really expensive so you probably want to get as much for your money as possible.

well I think the fact that it berths there at all is pretty problematic, but you know

I'd say Ned is probably quoting a DM article comment there

or indeed a comment from that Guardian stream

That cruise ship thing is a non-story, it's not like it's docking or not docking is going to make things better or worse for the good folk of Haiti. It provides a kind of easy knee-jerk contrast ("Haitians in desperate straits while people on cruise ship party!"), but even if the ship does not dock, plenty of people will still be partying and plenty of Haitians will still be in desperate straits.

And those cruises are really expensive so you probably want to get as much for your money as possible.

I've seen Caribbaean crusises priced at starting from a grand, which is not really that much in the cosmic scheme of things (for first worlders etc.).

btw i'd like to shout-out to gbx and Ned and others on this thread for making me donate...imo this should be worldwide mobilisation

and i know i should do so of my own volition but every little kick up the arse helps

the cruise ship offers a particularly obscene juxtaposition of haves vs. have-nots in close proximity, but it begs the question: at what geographic distance from scarcity and disaster does it begin to be ethically right to enjoy life's luxuries? i've had a few moments this past week where, having a nice meal & a glass of wine, I wasn't sure how different i really was from the cruise ship passengers.

i guess i see the cruise ship as a symbol of something much bigger, that implicates all of us to some extent.

it's not really just the juxtaposition tho or the enjoyment of luxuries. it's that cruise lines actually -use- Haitian coastline and then puts up barbwire to keep them out. the amount of money they make off Haiti is grossly disproportionate to what they spend on Haitian salaries, I'd wager, and I doubt they pay much to he govt for the privilege of visiting. assuming of course that they don't just outright own the beach.

not precisely the same enjoying a night out in yr hometown

there's probably some way to formulate a rule of thumb or even a mathematical equation to work out whether having a glass of wine at your house is the same thing as going on a cruise liner to a country that's just had 200,000 people dead and be able to enjoy yourself. but i should think that when it comes to it, you just kind of know.

xpost

now that you put it that way...

Lots of benefit events happening. Awesome veteran Haitian band Tabou Combo are at the Kennedy Center in DC for free tonight (donations are requested and I think they are streaming the show online on their Millennium stage link) and there's the big deal thing on tv tonight with Madonna and Beyonce and George Clooney

So glad to see Partners in Health was one of the groups to benefit from the Hope for Haiti Now thing on tonight.

Mr Veg noted NONE of the broadcast networks are showing Hope For Haiti...but almost all of the big cable stations are. Which seems pretty shit to me, since it's such a good cause.

I preordered the album on Itunes...Red Cross also has donations set up through itunes for $5 to (I think) $100 increments.

Huh? Its on all the networks here. Preordered it myself too.

Weird. Wonder if it's just a Cali thing? Unless it's on delayed broadcast to air later. Weird.

Loved Wyclef's performance...and I'm not a big Jennifer Hudson person but damn, having the Roots as your backing band will do wonders. I even kinda liked the JayZ/Rihanna/Bono jam.

That might be it, the delay. It was on HBO, ABC, NBC, FOX, CBS at least in Chicago. I even kinda liked Justin Timberlake's "Hallelujah".

starts at 8 in LA.

I am still of the opinion that anyone who says anything remotely off-script from what I see on my TeeVee is a crackpot communist scumbag queer. I can't stand to be well read, but I'm guessing somewhere in this thread some libtardo has claimed the earthquake was a hoax so the Red Cross can get donation money for Obama to save his ass because our country is going down the toilet... and, well, yeah sure, that I can believe if you're talking about green screens and special effects. But, if you say HAARP did it, well then go to Russia!

xpost...cool. I missed the beginning so I'll watch it over.

xpost WAHT

Its a new sock someone started tonight, ignore.

Not a sock; this guy already called me a sock on my introduction post. Sorry if you don't understand my sense of humor, but that does not automatically make me a sock. I am a brand new poster who is interested in meeting other NYers and talking on these forums. Just being a ridiculous retard for one moment and you have to jump all over me??? Sheesh.

maybe you should try ridiculousretard.com.

Roadrunner says: "Sorry, we couldn't find ridiculousretard.com"

hey, nice use of both "queer" and "retard"! This is for Haiti, please go somewhere else if you want to be stupid.

After spending days noting that medical supplies were not getting through, I see that Anderson Cooper is finally interviewing US personnel to ask why. But they keep just answering "We are doing our best," and that's that. Not sure how he should follow up, maybe they are just doing their best.

yeah i've unplugged from this for a few days, due to cares. however, it was my understanding that medical supplies were slow in getting through just because PaP is just hell of difficult to navigate atm.

I think the problem now is also catalogueing and knowing what they have at the airport, in addition to navigating through PaP. Dr. Sanjay Gupta with CNN did a "gotcha" by taking meds himself from someone and then coming back later to ask the military why they are taking so long to deliver meds when he did it already with this one bag of stuff.

I am convinced that the US decided to let the Pennsylvania governor fly in and out of the country with orphans(who were not immediately in need of medical care), while making Doctors Without Borders planes wait (who were needed and had supplies to immediately help those who were in need of medical care).

yeah, i just heard about that governor thing---cynical politicking, you think?

Yep. He's an anti-abortion Dem too, I believe which I'm guessing factored in of course.

Where has Preval been news stories now happening. He just finally spoke to the press again. Haiti can't win, the US govt. tossed the prior charismatic leader for being a commie sympathiser troublemaker and now the quiet technocrat prez doesn't grab the spotlight. Although with all the destruction of government buildings it would be hard for him to do so even if he wanted to (possibly doable but harder).

HuffPo says:

The earthquake that hit Haiti, by the numbers:

THE EARTHQUAKE

_ Magnitude-7.0 at 4:53 p.m. EST (2153 GMT) on Jan. 12

_ Aftershocks: 56 of magnitude-4.5 or greater.

THE TOLL

_ Bodies recovered: 150,000 (includes 54 Americans, 44 Europeans)

_ Estimated dead: 200,000
Story continues below

_ Rescued from collapsed buildings: 134

_ Injured: 194,000.

_ Children who are unaccompanied, orphaned or lost one parent: 1 million

_ People enduring amputations or other surgery: 200,000.

THE DISPLACED

_ Homeless: 1 million.

_ Living in makeshift camps: 700,000-800,000

_ Tents needed for homeless: 200,000 family-size.

_ People who have fled Port-au-Prince for the countryside: 236,000.

THE DAMAGE AND THE NEED

_ Structures destroyed: 70 percent in broad areas of the capital; 90 percent in towns closer to the epicenter.

_ Schools destroyed or badly damaged: 90 percent throughout the capital.

_ People who need food aid: 2 million

_ People receiving food aid: 400,000

THE RESPONSE

Backlog of planes waiting to land at the airport: 800-1,000.

Flights landing per day: About 140.

U.S. military: About 20,000 troops, 18 ships.

U.N. peacekeeping troops and police: 12,500

Donations: More than $1 billion from governments, including $575 million from Europe and $316 million from U.S. government, in addition to $470 million in donations through private U.S. charities.

___

Sources include the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, U.S. Geological Survey; European Commission Monitoring and Information Center; U.S. Agency for International Development; International Organization for Migration; U.S. Department of Defense; The Chronicle of Philanthropy, Save the Children.

If only they'd used condoms.

link?

xp to stevie

Oh sorry http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20100126/cb-haiti-earthquake-glance/

And yeah, that Paul Shirley thing which I don't even think I should bother getting upset about.

http://www.flipcollective.com/2010/01/26/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come-by-paul-shirley/

What is alarming, I think, is the sometimes illogical frenzy toward casting those affected by the earthquake as helpless, innocent souls who were placed on the island of Hispaniola by an invisible force.

lol slavery

_ Bodies recovered: 150,000 (includes 54 Americans, 44 Europeans)

Parsing and phrasing stats like this always bugs the shit out of me

54 Americans, 44 Europeans and 149,000 negroes

glad ppl are getting mad about that shirley article. I know we'd much rather ignore these ppl but we don't need people with these opinions having any kind of profile or credibility. We talked abt it on i love hoops last night too fwiw

Sincerely,

The Rest of the World

EXCUSE ME, BUDDY?

“Unfortunately, [Haiti]’s government was not in a position to really do much to prepare for the inevitable large earthquake, leaving tens of thousands to suffer the consequences.”

The sentiment expressed is one of outrage at the government. But, ultimately, the people in a country have control over their government. One could argue that in totalitarian regimes, they do not have much control, but in the end, it is their government. And therefore, their responsibility. If the government is not doing enough for the people, it is the people’s responsibility to change the government. Not the other way around.

this guy is really dumb. or, rather, incurious and uninformed about how gov't works in places like Haiti. i don't think he's a monster, but he reeks of dorm room libertarianism.

so otm, ive read his awful writing occasionally but last night i realized why he's the worst - obv a libertarian

_ Bodies recovered: 150,000 (includes 54 Americans, 44 Europeans)

Parsing and phrasing stats like this always bugs the shit out of me

^^I felt the same way when I read that

There's help on the way:

International Planned Parenthood Capitalizing on Haiti Earthquake with New Fundraiser (from some anti-choice news site).

Within a day of the disaster, IPPF had sent out an appeal letter, seeking “urgent” support for their Haitian affiliate PROFAMIL. IPPF, the world's largest abortion provider, claims that funds are needed in order to restore “basic medical services” at the PROFAMIL clinics. According to their letter, PROFAMIL has operated since 1984, providing “low-cost, quality sexual and reproductive healthcare.”

mad kudos to ESPN IMO

reconcile the irreconcilable: "god i wish these poor savages would stop having babies v. so-called reproductive healthcare is just a way to massacre unborn children!!!"

xp what they fired him?

Yeah, it's on the HuffPo link.

good on them

the part of me that feeds on my own indignant rage is perversely hoping that some conservative idiots take up paul shirley as some kind of str8 talkin folk hero, just so i can see him (and the view he represents) excoriated in a more public sphere

dear jon stewart pls make an example of this tool

honestly he's not even worth it. dude had a column on literally the worst part of espn.com that no one ever goes to, and i think only serious nba fans even know who he is.

yeah the views are worth condemning but shirley is a nobody who just deserved to lose his freelance job

Shirley had some of the worst music reviews in that ESPN slot as well, the guy was the worst kind of tool: the kind that thinks he's a genius. The Haiti article he wrote sounds like someone losing his mind.

sorry history of Major League Baseball in Haiti:

http://www.counterpunch.org/damu01222010.html

Words fail:

According to E! Online, Quincy Jones and Lionel Richie are spearheading a 25th anniversary re-recording of the star-speckled, Michael Jackson- and Lionel Richie-penned hit “We Are The World,” with proceeds going toward Haiti relief. In what's presumably an accidental echo of Pat Robertson, Jones is quoted in the piece saying, “It's the 25th anniversary and it's perfect timing … It's not an accident, man. That's God. It will be 'We Are The World' for Haiti."

The report says writer and director Paul Haggis will most likely film a recording session of the song on Monday. And the Showbiz blog at The Hollywood Reporter says the recording of the song was pushed to Monday to capitalize on the star talent lingering in Los Angeles the day after the Grammy Awards. Originally, the planned anniversary recording was to take place today.

The talent list so far includes Usher, Natalie Cole, and John Legend, yet Jones was hesitant to reveal more until names are set in stone. But you can bet the “Hope For Haiti Now” performers are invited.

~barf~

So will Prince show up?

haiti at this point doesn't really need more $$$, it needs people caring about the actual structural issues that created the situation there in the first place, and which will continue to shape its future for the foreseeable future. celebrity fundraisers and the like are great for raising awareness and cash, but unless they somehow convince the american public that we should

a) forgive haiti's debt
b) allow a massive influx of immigrants
c)...other stuff

then most of what we do from now on (now that PIH and MSF et al have received loads of cash) isn't going to help ~that~ much

(sorry, HAITI needs money, but most of the aid orgs are in pretty good shape)

oh god the segment anderson cooper just did on childhood servitude & the earthquake was so, so heartbreaking

What is going on with dying patients not being able to come to US hospitals because the Florida Republican governor want the feds to pay for the expenses and according to him the feds won't.

hadn't heard about that---was under the impression that pts weren't allowed to come up to the states due to immigration issues