Arsenal 2003-04: Are they the best team in English football history?

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OK, granted, they haven't even won anything yet and - full disclosure - I'm a (drunk) Arsenal supporter very pleased with today's (well, tonight's, in the UK) result v. Portsmouth, but could this Arsenal team be considered the greatest club in the history of English football? If they manage to win the treble and go undefeated in the league, would they be? If not them - who else: Man United in 67-68 or 98-99? Liverpool in the late 70s? Arsenal in the 1930s?

Admittedly, they barely scraped into the knock-out stages of the CL, have been lucky w/injuries (and even suspensions), and may not have the depth of some of the other contenders for this fictional crown. (But reserves such as Clichy and Bentley have done well when called upon -- in that sense, there is no indication that depth is a serious problem, just an issue they've not had the misfortune to have had to address.) At present, I think they're the best team in the world - ahead of clubs such as Real, Roma, or Milan - and that they're better than the Man United team of 99. Could they become the best the in the history of English football?

(nb: my sober mind may regret this rare foray into thread-starting!)

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Saturday, 6 March 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

1) They're NOT better than the Man U team of 99. That team had all the skill and attacking flair of todays Arsenaa, but knew how to win things, which is an important skill that this Arsenal team hasn't got. (Maybe losing the premiership last season focused their minds, we'll have to see)

2) You havn't won the anything yet, and I think it would only be a drunk Arsenal supporter that would fancy them over Real.

(PS I support Oxford, which makes me about as neutral on these matters as its possible to get)

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Saturday, 6 March 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

They're NOT better than the Man U team of 99. That team had all the skill and attacking flair of todays Arsenaa, but knew how to win things, which is an important skill that this Arsenal team hasn't got.

It's a skill that last year's Arsenal didn't have but since the match at Inter, Arsenal has shown this year. Admittedly (again), I am still months ahead of myself here, but if Arsenal do win those titles (removing the claim they don't know "how to win things"), I do think they'd be better than Man U 99. In defense (ha, the last place Arsenal would have seemed to have had tn advantage over other top clubs a year ago), I think Arsenal > Real certainly. The front six may not be as skilled as a team or individuals, but I think the back line - plus the way Edu, Vieia, etc., defend from midfield - gives Arsenal the advantage over Real.

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Saturday, 6 March 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

This is ONE reason why I'm actually glad I'm not in London at the moment. The celebrations for the double-winning Arsenal team cut me to the bone.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Saturday, 6 March 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I promise to come back for good if Arsenal and Chelsea both miss out on Europe for one season.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Saturday, 6 March 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

*Vieira*, obv.

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Saturday, 6 March 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

As a Portsmouth fan - i acknowledge that was a power-display of football by Arsenal today.

For this first 20-25 Minutes i thought Portsmouth matched them - with some fine midfield and defensive displays. Portsmouth players looked confident, were passing well and were up for it.

Then, Arsenal turned on the switch - with some supreme passing, positional play and .. clinical finishing.

That was a world class display - on that performance Arsenal would have won against the current World Champs Brazil, with Arsenal having their 2 Brazil players.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 6 March 2004 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Well done Gooners put's our 1-0 defeat at pompey into even more perspective.
However no team has come close to Liverpool in the '70's and '80's.4 European cups in 8 years when only the 'proper' league champions were allowed to enter. Not trying to diminish this Arsenal side which should finish the campaign undefeated which will be incredible. The sad thing for us kopites is it doesn't even hurt anymore - the Mancs put paid to that.

― Mike Donnelly, Saturday, 6 March 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I think they have to win the League and Champions League for this argument to be worth having - to match the one-season achievement of Man U or peak Liverpool. It's not unimaginable that they could do that.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 6 March 2004 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

However no team has come close to Liverpool in the '70's and '80's.4 European cups in 8 years when only the 'proper' league champions were allowed to enter.

Yes, like the league champions of Finland, Ireland, Malta, etc. - hence plenty of 9-0 agg first round victories. And you only had to play nine matches to win it (or seven in the case of Liverpool in 77-78), compared to 17 up to 02/03 in the Champions League. Not denying that Liverpool were probably the best club side in Europe for most of that period but I'm not sure it was a tougher competition to win.

(OK, counterarguments: you actually had to *win* those two-legged ties and not simply accumulate points; Arsenal and Chelsea would more than likely be out by now under the old system. No seeding that I can remember prior to the mid-80s - hence Lpool-Forest in 78-79 round one).

Liverpool, Everton, Leeds and Man Utd have all won league titles by a street - but this season if Man U and/or Chelsea maintain their greater-than-two-points-per-game form and Arsenal *still* finish 10 or more points clear, I think it will be the greatest post-war title-winning performance. Or just underline the weakness of the opposition, I dunno.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 6 March 2004 23:51 (twenty-two years ago)

This is ONE reason why I'm actually glad I'm not in London at the moment. The celebrations for the double-winning Arsenal team cut me to the bone.
-- @d@ml (nordiEF="webmail.php?msgid=4376757">nordicskill...), March 6th, 2004. (later)

I promise to come back for good if Arsenal and Chelsea both miss out on Europe for one season.
-- @d@ml (nordicskilla@hotmail.com), March 6th, 2004. (later)

you hurt me adam, as an arsenal supporter (who doesn't bother with going to matches so armchair), you hurt me!!!

I think the one argument (or excuse) that will be given for man u's shoddy performance will be the leo ferdinand ban, but we all thought man u had a deep pool of players didn't we?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 7 March 2004 11:36 (twenty-two years ago)

if you don't win, then you're not the best.

As a Liverpool fan I know what it's like to be the best and to win everything and I've come to know what it's like to be proud of a promising side that wins next to nothing. Arsenal need to start winning or their claims to greatness will be overtaken by statistics. Sorry, but there's no alternative.

― run it off (run it off), Sunday, 7 March 2004 12:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Man U have had a good season - averaging over two points a game in the league, in the FA Cup semi-final, still in the Champions League. It's just that arsenal in the league have been extraordinarily good.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 7 March 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I am rapidly losing hope that it's all going to come tumbling down at Arsenal before the end of the season. I still think the Manyoo team of '99 was better, but then I'm hugely biased.

I hate them. I really, really fucking hate them. I had to turn over before the final whistle yesterday because I didn't want to sit and watch Lineker and Hanson sit fawning over them. It helps that they are the dirtiest nastiest group of Premiership players outside Newcastle. Martin Keown in particular being the missing link between apes and whatever came before apes and one day Ruud Van Nistelrooy will crack, force his hand into his chest and hold aloft Keown's blackened withered but still beating heart to the Highbury faithful and it will be a beautiful, beautiful day.

The big difference I can see between Man U and the Arse this season is that Arsenal look hungry for victory in a way that Manyoo just don't at the moment. But can I be the first to say that ARSENAL WILL NOT WIN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE THIS SEASON. Been to the quarter finals once and now everyone thinks they can win the thing. Fuckers.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 7 March 2004 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

That was no help at all, was it?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 7 March 2004 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

no, but it was funny. and that in itself is a GOOD THING.

I rarely watch the premiership, but i like people talking about it.

That was no help either was it. it wasn't even funny.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 7 March 2004 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

one day Ruud Van Nistelrooy will crack, force his hand into his chest and hold aloft Keown's blackened withered but still beating heart to the Highbury faithful and it will be a beautiful, beautiful day.

"Matt DC and the Temple o' Dreams"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 7 March 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

as a celtic fan in the late 90s I knew what it's like to be the best and never win a thing.

― cozen (Cozen), Sunday, 7 March 2004 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:05 (twenty-two years ago)

tommy burns, ailsa, tommy burns.

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

b-but we kept losing to, like, Kilmarnock and stuff. and not winning cup games and things = not the best.

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

they were the best!!!

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:07 (twenty-two years ago)

ok.

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Is Matt DC auditioning to be the apprentice Pinefox? There are worse roles.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:32 (twenty-two years ago)

im sorry everyone, but this team is something else.

im a neutral my team is not in the top 3 divisions, i have no axe to grind, its just, well, have you seen them?

― gareth (gareth), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

god i miss football.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:34 (twenty-two years ago)

they move so fast.

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:34 (twenty-two years ago)

incredible team. their performances in the premiership have been the best in it's history, and they may finish unbeaten. the league is theirs, but i don't think they'll win in europe.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

so in answer to the question: yes, i think so. although it will only be confirmed by a european triumph.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:42 (twenty-two years ago)

i think you might be right. they remind me of deportivo. i think they are the best team by some distance, but i can quite see them not acutally doing it. i hope they do though

xpost, what kilian said

― gareth (gareth), Monday, 8 March 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Q: do I stand a chance of seeing them before the season's through?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Monday, 8 March 2004 01:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I found myself thinking the other day: The current Arsenal team seem so imperious as they attack partly because the Highbury pitch is so narrow. Three players advancing towards the opposition goal seem like a tsunami of possibility.

Nevertheless: The idea that they are rivalling the the Liverpool team of 79-90 is daft.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 8 March 2004 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

hmmm...true if you're judging in terms of sustained quality over several seasons (in which case arsenal have some work to do) - BUT they may have turned in the best league season ever.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 8 March 2004 01:29 (twenty-two years ago)

they are exceptional,i don't support them or anything but jesus they play some stunning football
they remind me of what i imagine the dutch team in the seventies was like,all that total football carry on...the way they move,the speed of thought,everything about them is the best play ive ever seen...
now if i was cynical i could point out that the defenses they are up against are a lot worse than in other leagues,but even so the flair that they play with is astonishing...
henry is the best footballer ive ever seen play
and if wenger was able to find him languishing on the wing at juve,not even getting his game,and turn him in to the player he is today,then i cannot wait to see what reyes,who he was willing to pay 20 million for,will do for them...

― robin (robin), Monday, 8 March 2004 01:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Jerry - yes, although that obv. doesn't explain their spectacular away form, this season or the last. And i 've found myself thinking about the Highbury pitch whenever i've watched a game on tv for a couple of years now...i always assumed it would be a disadvantage, with that kind of fast expansive wide play, which only made me respect them all the more, incidentally. Wouldn't the opposing central defenders be less likely to get drawn out by the attackers?

― pete s, Monday, 8 March 2004 01:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Wenger seems to have this knack for turning good players into world class; Henry, Ljungberg, Pires, Viera, and looking back further, George Weah.

I pity the rest of the world if he ever gets the France job.

― Nick H (Nick H), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

bring on brazil!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

The Liverpool team of 1988 (specifically May) wasn't so hot.

The current Arsenal team are a joy to watch along with the United of the turn of the (most recent) century and the stunning Valencia team who repeatedly made me wet in 2000-2002. I can't remember any other teams who've made me feel like this.

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

This will be the stunning Valencia team that had to go to penalties to put Celtic out of the UEFA Cup a couple of years back, yes? Note, UEFA Cup. Not Champions League.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 12:52 (twenty-one years ago)

See the Liverpool 88 comment for the acknowledgement that even the best teams have off days ;)

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

i know, we should never have let it get as far as penalties...

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 12:57 (twenty-one years ago)

It is odd that wee Ailsa is not more often joyful about her team who are running away with all.

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 9 March 2004 13:00 (twenty-one years ago)

It's the style they play as much as anything else, I've not seen anything like it.

On an aesthetic level you have to give them one up on the 99 United team because they score Arsenal goals, it's a style fairly unique to them. How many times have they scored from headers this year I wonder? Very few I'd imagine. I guess it suits the pitch.

I am biased cos I hate Man U but I do think Arsenal are something else.

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I am not joyful as I am shitting myself at the prospect of Ronaldinho vs John Kennedy/a desperately unfit Joos Valgaeren on Thursday.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Arsenal are indeed very good, but I think people forget the capricious nature of madame le football and her gods; had horseface not hit the bar early on in the season, their unbeaten record would have been over and at the hands of the people who they lost out last season. Everyon ein Arsenal seems to suggest they drew strength from how they lost it last year and resolved 'never again'.

If however they'd have lost to the same team again, would they have thought 'here we go again'? Would that have affected their performance this season? I don't know. I do know that enough teams have given them a run for their money and been let down by inability to take a 2-0 lead; have the magnificent Arse overturned a 2 goal deficit yet? I don't decry their powers of resilience and recovery, but sometimes I think that they have benefitted from the weakness of opponents in front of goal as opposed to their own strengths.

x-post - When Valgaren missed the penalty against Valencia, everything about him said 'I am about to miss this penalty' and also, the referee should have booked Canizares for his gamesmanship in that shoot-out - he was a disgrace.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

what was worse was that he missed it TWICE. Fuckwit. He was dubbed Joos-less Valgaeren for ages after that.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

It pains me to say this, but it's the Liverpool performance of 1978-79 that is the benchmark that Arsenal must attain this season. Yes, they lost four matches, but won 30 of the other 38, accumulating 68pts in old money, scoring 85 and conceding 16. Teams were thumped five-, six- and (sorry, Pinefox) seven-nil. For all their magnificent play, Arsenal have squeaked home a few times this season. They were lucky to take four points off the Toffees...sassenfrassen...

If Everton hadn't made such a rotten start/finish to 1984-85 (won the title with five games to spare and by a 13pt margin, lost three of the last four matches fielding a reserve team), they'd be up there too. See also: Arsenal 90-91, Lpool 87-88, Leeds 68-69.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

When people make these historical comparisons, do they mean a sort of 'in real terms', inflation-adjusting thing? Am I wrong to think that a 70s team would be totally smashed now?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

68pts? Are you sure? I make that 64.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

N - I would suspect the 90s-00s team would beat them on stamina alone... surely Arsenal 2004 would be playing far better after 80 minutes than Liverpool 79?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 14:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Which boots and what ball weight would this time travelling contest be played with?

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

They are a lot less flamboyant than last year. This year they're just more direct and it's made them even more potent. For me it's all about Toure, he's so solid. I think he's been their best player this season.

Still, I have a feeling in my bones Arsenal are going to lose a game before the seasons over (not neccesarily saying they'll lose the title but...). Don't really know why but my spidey-sense is tingling...

― Michael B, Tuesday, 9 March 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

The Arsenal players of today would only be able to exert their better stamina if they could still walk. Which after 80 minutes of 70s stylee-tackling is doubtful.

May I interject here with a cliche - you can only play the team in front of you; therefore, saying who'd beat who is ultimately pointless and futile, so all we can say is that the Liverpool team of 79 would have got 94 points, which is phenomenal; given they'd play two games less, lets knock it down by a similar ratio you get 89-90 points which is bloody good.

For my own part, the Liverpool side of 88 was magnificent; I always think the calls of AC Milan to be the best team in the World etc to be cheap as none played this great side. Actually, this begs a question - before the ban, English Teams had won 7 out of the last 9 European Cups and been beaten finalists in 85; it was generally accepted that to win the European Cup, you had to beat the English Champions. Now, this has never been recovered subsequent to that. Why?

Did the ban exacerbate a tendency that was gathering pace? Or was the ban a blow which English football still hasn't recovered from? Upon re-entry, it seemed English teams could do well in the ECWC, for obvious reasons I've mentioned before, but couldn't get to grips with the European Cup. There's an interesting discussion here, so lets bloody well have it.

Tragedies of the ban number 1 - Everton never got to play in the EC in 85-6 - I think they'd have won it, such was the talent of that side.

Tragedies of the ban number 2 - Liverpool's late 80s side never got the chance to win it

Tragedies of the ban number 3 - Wimbledon never got to play in the ECWC - I was convinced they'd have won it.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, the stock answer that English clubs missed out on crucial European experience during the ban is starting to wear a bit thin.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

68pts? Are you sure? I make that 64.

42 games in a season back then; 30 wins, 8 draws, 4 defeats (I said 30 of the other 38) = 68pts, beating Leeds Utd's 1969 record by a point. 98pts in euros.

Trust me, I don't have to look this stuff up. (That's not a boast, it's an admission of a problem.)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry, I missed that 'other'.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)

and 84 pts seasonally adjusted.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

98 in 42 games would reduce to about 89 in 38. Arsenal may make that. What is the highest total in the 38 game season with 3 for a win?

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Man United in 1999/2000: 91pts from 38 games (28-7-3; 97-45). Maybe that's better than Liverpool 78-79 on reflection.

Arsenal only lost once in a 38-game season in 90-91 (24-13-1; two points deducted for that big scrap at Old Trafford = 83pts) and Liverpool only twice in a 40-game season in 87-88 (26-12-2 = 90pts).

I did look those up. I must be getting better.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Hang on; it all depends on the qaulity of the other teams. We know a greater differential has developed; so surely these figures are of passing interest only?

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 17:30 (twenty-one years ago)

The pts per game average of the top teams is increasing, as opposition gets 'easier' comparatively; ergo Liverpool's achievement is nominally better as it was rarer to win so many games, IYSWIM

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 17:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, without the 'incentive' of 3pts for a win, mebbe Paisley's mob eased off in a few of those draws, y'know? They didn't beat Everton, y'know. God bless Andy King, etc, etc.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 17:34 (twenty-one years ago)

The arguments about 'quality of opposition' and 'isn't it just better now?' remind me of the debates in tennis wrt open era vs non-open era, wooden rackets vs graphite, three of four slams on grass vs clay-dominated tour calendar, etc, etc. Which is why no one will ever agree on who's the best out of Laver, Hoad, Rosewall, Sampras, Borg, McEnroe etc, etc. We just have the number of titles to go on.

If Arsenal hit 92pts and/or remain undefeated, they'll have achieved something unparalleled in a purely statistical sense (see: Sampras's 14 Slams). Then we can moan about the lack of strength in depth in the 03/04 Premiership and the Arse's various frailties (Borg wins five Wimbledons in an era lacking genuine grass-court craftsmen [possibly baloney this, but if an oft-expressed opinion]; Sampras couldn't win on clay). I say 'then', but obv we can do this now.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Dave, your argument there is completely circular!

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Less maths, more Highbury death fantasies please.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)

But but but they're all so talented and good looking and believe in chivalry and the corinthian sporting ideal! (obv I am not including Pires, Vieira, Cole or Keown in this). And Thierry Henry is the model sportsman of our generation!!

― Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Tragedies of the ban number 4 - Oxford not playing in Europe after winning the Milk Cup.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I hate Thierry Henry for making my antipathy towards Arsenal thaw.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish Henry was playing for a different team. I hate it when Arsenal sign these fantastic effective flair players. Why couldn't Reyes have signed for Real or someone where I can view him objectively?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 9 March 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

Arsenal are most certainly amongst the best teams in English football history. The performance the team has shown this season, especially, going through this season unbeaten so far, shows how their character and style of play is so solid. They are just class!
The only criticisms i can make about Arsenal right now are of two players - Lehmann and Lauren. Hopefully, by next season, Lehmann especially, will go.

― Leela, Sunday, 25 April 2004 19:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Only three games to go for an unbeaten season. Whatever their points total, if they manage that this has to go down as one of the very greatest domestic league season performances.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 25 April 2004 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

They've already done it really, the season is over now, we have gotten there and not one loss. fantastic!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 25 April 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

so i was out tonite in the higbury barn, and it was a pretty good atmosphere, though i guess this is one of the more bourgeois arsenal pubs, certainly compared to the ones in finsbury park, the atmospher was good though, then i walked back up to finsbury park where i live, and i had 2 bottles thrown in the general direction of my head, and then saw a guy kicking his girlfriend, then things looked to be kicking off a little outside that pub on stroud green road (worlds end? i forget the name)

its good to be living here when arsenal win the league though, i missed out on this in 2002, after i had to move away, and was living in some horrible kentish town pit for 6 weeks.

― gareth (gareth), Sunday, 25 April 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Hurrah for the bourgeoisie.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 25 April 2004 21:59 (twenty-one years ago)

congrats to arsenal fans. i think fulham away is the toughest match they have left - so i'm guessing an unbeaten premiership season is well within their capabilities. a european trophy is required, but they have a strong enough squad to achieve that. next season, maybe. a new goalie would help.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 25 April 2004 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I hope they do the whole season unbeaten. Such a big deal was being made about the fact that Celtic were going to do it up here and, as soon as the league was won, they bottled it against what basically amounted to Aberdeen's reserves. To do it in the Premiership would be a phenomenal achievement.

x post

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 25 April 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoever it was commentating on the Premiership tonight said something about them having broken record after record this season. What are all these records they have already broken? I can only think of consecutive games unbeaten.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 25 April 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

first team to win a premiership without defeat (although they haven't yet completed a season without defeat).

but you're right, because this isn't "breaking a record" as such. it's achieving something that hasn't been achieved.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 25 April 2004 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, exactly - they haven't done it yet. Not saying they won't, but, y'know. And it was more the way he implied there were loads of other firsts or records they'd achieved.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 25 April 2004 22:15 (twenty-one years ago)

they have lifted the premiership trophy without being defeated: that is a first (regardless of whether they finish the season unbeaten), but not a broken record as such.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 25 April 2004 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

But they have achieved a title before getting defeated in the league (same as Celtic). I think that in itself is a record worth noting, as it is a difficult one to achieve.

x-post

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 25 April 2004 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

OK OK, I'll give them that one.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 25 April 2004 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

The best thing for me was that Tottenham matched them in the second half yesterday - as a result of Keane's penalty we salvaged a bit of dignity (quite frankly I was expecting a rout early on). And the best thing was that for a few minutes after the final whistle, despite winning the title, Arsenal STILL LOOKED REALLY PISSED OFF.

Did Jens Lehmann actually celebrate at all at the end? He looks like the footballer most likely to one day kill a man.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 April 2004 07:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Keane's penalty was hilarious!

He got to shove Lehmann over!

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 26 April 2004 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Keane will be dead this time next year.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 26 April 2004 07:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Jens Lehmann paints in his spare time.

― jel -- (jel), Monday, 26 April 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

goal flash: the yak strikes for the premiership's inform team

Portsmouth FC 1 Arsenal 0

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Reyes just equalised.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Pompey pressure...

Lehmann saves Arsenal's bacon twice in second half, so far.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Portsmouth unbeaten re: the 2 premiership games against Arsenal
Portsmouth unbeaten last 8 premiership games

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Go Pompey!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

1-1. Pompey did a great job keeping Arsenal at bay, and looked very strong on the break. Yakuba + Lualua = fast as FUCK.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

haha take that you bunch of hataz!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Bah. I suppose they are now.

― ..., Saturday, 15 May 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

damn fucking right. this is on par with United winning the treble!!!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 15 May 2004 20:22 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a sophisticated sort of self-deprecating humour gooners have.

― de, Saturday, 15 May 2004 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"draw specialists Arsenal"

How they managed to go a whole season undefeated and yet didn't get the record points haul is beyond me.

― chris (chris), Monday, 17 May 2004 07:27 (twenty-one years ago)

What is the record points haul, anyway? (Also it pains me to say this but does that have anything to do with the league being smaller these days?)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 17 May 2004 07:33 (twenty-one years ago)

no, there are two points totals bigger, one by Manyoo form a couple of years ago (with the same games) and they got two more, then another from them further back with more games that was about six more.

― chris (chris), Monday, 17 May 2004 07:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Man Utd got 91pts from 38 games in 99-2k and 92pts from 42 in 93-94. Previously, Liverpool had got 90 from 40 in 87-88 and Everton 90 from 42 in 84-85.

Under the old 2pts/win system Liverpool 78-79 hold the record with 68 (30-8-4 = 98pts under new system) from 42. That's equivalent to 89pts from 38.

Arsenal's 03-04 under the old system is superior (26-12-0 = 64pts = 70.7pts from 42) to Man Utd in 99-2k (28-7-3 = 63pts = 69.6pts from 42)) or Liverpool in 78-79.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 17 May 2004 08:13 (twenty-one years ago)

nice dressing gown mate

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 08:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I am now officially an Arsenal hater.

14 draws= boring boring Arsenal.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 17 May 2004 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Shall we run an ILX sweepstakes on who will be the first team to beat Arsenal in the Premiership. I reckon you'd get good odds on Fulham.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 17 May 2004 09:39 (twenty-one years ago)

when Milan lost their 18 month unbeaten run (and not just in Serie A iirc) it was to someone like Foggia i think, who might be the Charlton of Italy

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 09:41 (twenty-one years ago)

at least they were at the time

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 09:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I reckon it'll be Everton, late September-ish (it was us last time).

I reckon it'll also be our last win of 2004-05.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 17 May 2004 09:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Or we could stay unbeaten for the whole of the next seaon as well. But I don't mind if we lose once, maybe twice.

When I went out yesterday it was lovely and bright and there were many ppl in arsenal t-shirts. A great day.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you actually look at those people and think "I like them"? Because they always seem like complete cunts to me. Maybe you're a complete cunt - I don't know, I've never met you.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:37 (twenty-one years ago)

that's generalising, naughty N - the majority of them just wanted to celebrate the success of their team over a few light ales i'm sure

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sorry. You're right.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:41 (twenty-one years ago)

no, he's wrong.

Our taxi driver the other day was one of the nicest arsenal fans I've met. But most of them, especially the ones swarming over the victoria line on match days are arses.

― chris (chris), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

The other weekend in Islington I saw a man walking a dog wearing an Arsenal shirt. The dog. Not the man.

This, people, is what we're dealing with here.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

you should have kicked it into the road, and then said "sorry, I thought it was Martin Keown"

― chris (chris), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

damn fucking right. this is on par with United winning the treble!!!

Maybe. This is a unique achievement in English football history (let's forget Preston 18whatever for the moment) but so was winning the treble. I'd favour the United 98-99 season for sheer drama - the injury time goals in Barcelona, pipping Arsenal on the final day, the Bergkamp penalty miss/Giggs chestwig extravaganza. MU rampaging to the title in 99-2k with 90-odd goals seemed more emphatic.

Highbury Fields yesterday was like a deleted scene from Shaun Of The Dead.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Upper Street was pretty hideous too.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never met an arsenal fan and I'm not about to generalize.

Football t-shirts are something that I'd never wear, i think of it as something you might buy for kids. But it was when I realized that we'd won, because I just haven't followed the season that closely.

I'm a complete cunt, as anybody from this board will tell you.

x-post: haha matt!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Michael- yeah I know about preston but I think there were only 12 teams in the league and the game wasn't professional.

I think this was just as emphatic as United in '99-2k, but in a diff way. The teams around us seemed to lose it a bit as we just kept not losing.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Julio United won the treble in 1999, when Arsenal to you was merely a collective noun for discussing weapons.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:50 (twenty-one years ago)

nuff police cars down Upper St last night incidentally, 341 took ages

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i like the idea of dogs wearing football shirts tho

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never met an arsenal fan

extraordinary!

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:51 (twenty-one years ago)

you're generalising ronan! And you can't read either, bcz I mentioned the treble a while back.

x-post: I think there is one other arsenal fan on this board actually, but we are far more likely to discuss music.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:55 (twenty-one years ago)

generalising???? I'm only speaking about you.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 17 May 2004 10:59 (twenty-one years ago)

i think Julio would make a fine General

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I had to get the hell out of North London before full-time on Saturday. I don't think I could have beared it.

Pass the sick bag on the left hand side

I knew I was right.

And again, sagacious commentators with a long standing acquainatnce wityh football queue up to pour cold water on the season's achievement.

PS - France were shit.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you going to AFC Wimbledon's double-winning, unbeaten-in-the-league victory parade next weekend, Dave?

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe I shall. This is where the team with the greatest record in English football this season shall parade their wares.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:27 (twenty-one years ago)

aargh I misread ronan. But I don't have anything to prove.

dave- you can only beat what's in front of you. If the rest of the league aren't up to it there you go.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Where do we draw the line though, Dave? There's probably some under-11s team in Goole or Hatfield who won every game by at least a seven-goal margin this season. THEY are the true gods.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

England 66

― chris (chris), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Greatest record in English senior football, then. There's a potential friendly against an Arsenal XI in the works, apparently - maybe the next ILXfootieFAP?

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

You stop where senior football ends.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Shinty giants Kingussie have only lost three games since 1996 - beat that, fuckfaces.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't been beaten at pro evolution soccer in 6 months

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:51 (twenty-one years ago)

i won the treble three times in SWOS Career mode

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

On Friday a friend gave up at 5-0. It's damaging my life and turning me into a smug childish twat.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Why don't you enter some international smug childish Pro-Evolution twat tournament to see how good you really are?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd bet on ronan to win that.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Dastoor, living in Glasgow seems to have made your vocabulary very crude.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 May 2004 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd get hammered N, you know as well as I do youth=talent when it comes to computer games.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 17 May 2004 12:02 (twenty-one years ago)

But you're only 8 years old!

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 17 May 2004 12:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I ran out of responses to you saying that after the 6th time or so.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 17 May 2004 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Loser!

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 17 May 2004 12:22 (twenty-one years ago)

you are a small man.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 17 May 2004 12:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm crap at Pro Evolution Soccer too.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 17 May 2004 12:33 (twenty-one years ago)

you can be classic brazil!

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 17 May 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

yes video games really kick that 'don't win owt with kids' theory into touch

― stevem (blueski), Monday, 17 May 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Aren't all the world video games champions, like, 19 though? And overweight Asians?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 May 2004 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Forget this Arsenal bizness, look at the form league table:

From soccerstats.com Based upon last 10 games:
>
> 1. Portsmouth 21points
> 2. Arsenal 20
> 3. Bolton 19
> 4. Chelsea 18
> 5. Liverpool 18
> 6. Man Utd 17
> 7. Aston Villa 16
> 8. Blackburn 16
> 9. Newcastle 14
> 10. Middlesbrough 14
> 11. Fulham 13
> 12. Man City 11
> 13. So*thampton 11
> 14. Leeds 11
> 15. Charlton 10
> 16. Wolves 9
> 17. Birmingham 8
> 18. Tottenham 8
> 19. Leicester 7
> 20. Everton 7
>

Pompey champions of first division 2002-2003, and Champions of the last 10 games of the Premiership 2003-2004.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 17 May 2004 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Perhaps Dom, I based my theory on getting beaten at games by cousins.

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 17 May 2004 19:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Are none of your cousins Asian then?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 May 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I can't think of any overweight ones either. But I'm sure there are some

― Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 17 May 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

martian you don't have to do this. really.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 17 May 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Julio - have you read the linked pieces I posted? Do you have any reaction to them? Did you engage with the argument?

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 07:27 (twenty-one years ago)

dave- you can only beat what's in front of you. If the rest of the league aren't up to it there you go.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 07:30 (twenty-one years ago)

some of the F***wits on the tube last night were the epitome of the annoying gooner, completely decked out in bad commemorative t-shirts and talking absolute nonsense with clarity and authority.

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 07:42 (twenty-one years ago)

ugh...even Mancs didn't bray like this lot.

― Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 07:50 (twenty-one years ago)

funniest t-shirt = "we've got our trophy back"

my mind boggled, then I laughed in his face

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 08:00 (twenty-one years ago)

im sure he was very hurt

― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

6 year olds can be quite sensitive Gareth

― chris (chris), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

(bad taste joke here)

― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 08:31 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...

time to revisit this maybe? If Arsenal continue their unbeaten run thorugh this season will that make them the best team in footballing history?

― MarkH (MarkH), Sunday, 29 August 2004 10:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I think they might already be there, looking at the English league only - they went a whole season unbeaten, and are looking really great this season too. What would settle it in a wider sense this season would be another convincing title plus the Champions' League, which they are good enough to win, but over a fairly small number of games between lots of top teams it's not that predictable.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Sunday, 29 August 2004 10:45 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

they're finished

― kenfox (ken c), Sunday, 28 November 2004 23:53 (twenty-one years ago)

where's that comma, you're drunk!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 29 November 2004 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I love you both.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 29 November 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

wishful, thinking.

(ex, posthaha)

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Monday, 29 November 2004 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

arsenal are moody. they play better football than any team in the premierships but their switches from stellar form to mediocre form are incredibly jarring. they seem to lack the stomach for battle at times. when they recover their form i sense another long stretch of brilliance, but i also think that wenger's team is harder to goad back into action than a ferguson team.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 29 November 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

When AC milan's run (58 games, I think) was ended they did suffer quite a drastic form in decline but they held on for the title. I think the fight is there (we have been grinding out draws) but there has to be a readjustment period and this is it; it was a nice strike in stoppage.

I think man u have a different problem - how to build a team that can contend for the title again?

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 29 November 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

what happened to ILX football matches?
not that i am in town to play, but it was good while it lasted. maybe its been going on all the time. maybe i lamed out 1 time too many.

anyway, arsenal? palce scored against em. cant be that good. bit worried botu the man u game coming uop tho....

― ambrose (ambrose), Monday, 29 November 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

fear the blank-faced assassin.

― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 29 November 2004 09:35 (twenty-one years ago)

wtf went wrong, was it just a case of losing to Man Utd? Why is Henry so absent from games? How has Reyes gone from a goal a game to a touch a game? Did they miss Campbell that much? Is Lehman a liability?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 29 November 2004 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

they were just chased down like a wounded fox yesterday, and the Liverpool defending was *very* good, if Henry went past three players, there's be big Sammi waiting to take the ball off him. Apart from their goal which was amazing. Dunno what's happened to Reyes but he's certainly nothing like the force he was earlier in the season.

― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 29 November 2004 09:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Note that their 'collapse' started roughly when I called them the most entertaining thing out of everything at the/that moment. That sentence is as wayward as an Arsenal pass. But they did score a very good goal.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 29 November 2004 09:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Their collapse is directly down to the absence of Sol Campbell, just as it was when they capitulated at the end of the season before last. They look nervy and porous at the back without him, and any defence with Pascal Cygan at its core is not Championship material (maybe The Championship material, hem hem).

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 29 November 2004 10:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, didn't he play yesterday?

― He's allergic to lettuce (Mark C), Monday, 29 November 2004 10:17 (twenty-one years ago)

he did, yes

― Vicky (Vicky), Monday, 29 November 2004 10:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Did he play? Oh great, maybe they've just gone shit then :)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 29 November 2004 10:55 (twenty-one years ago)

fiberglass was pretty poor.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 29 November 2004 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Kewell was appalling. Poor lad.

― Jesus Christ, Paraplegic (Mark C), Monday, 29 November 2004 11:24 (twenty-one years ago)

His passing, as ever, was very good, very simple and assured, but his lack of experience and body-strength showed yesterday.

Kewell has been appalling for 2 years now.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Monday, 29 November 2004 11:25 (twenty-one years ago)

He did play a very important part in the winning goal, which must be a relief to him

― Vicky (Vicky), Monday, 29 November 2004 11:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Kewell's only fit for the knacker's yard. We'll sell him in January, and probably we'll only get 500,000 for him.

Carragher and Hyppia though = very very solid.

― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 29 November 2004 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I watched the Arse game in a gooner pub, where the consensus amongst those I spoke to was that the problem is Vieira isn't having a great time of late, and Fabregas is just too young to carry the midfield (ie, key missing link is Gilberto / Edu).

Can I just say - I told you so. They're good, but weren't all that. As Liverpool showed (and teams in the Champions League have been oding for a bit now) Arsenal are rubbish and playing 4-5-1.

xpost - Neil Mellor is the slightly tubby brother of Gerrard. He wasn't much cop until his winner. Liverpool's midfield was very good though.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 29 November 2004 11:33 (twenty-one years ago)

If Arsenal can beat Chelsea in a fortnight, what are the odds on United staging an improbable comeback and nicking it?

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Monday, 29 November 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

49 games dave! A couple of defeats in the league doesn't change that.

champions league is a knockout comp - true test is in the league. and everybody knows it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 29 November 2004 13:26 (twenty-one years ago)

my money is on united still.

― Hari Ashurst (Toaster), Monday, 29 November 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

But the aura of invincibility was a big, big psychological advantage to Arsenal. If teams fear you they're going to be jittery and make mistakes. Once that fear evaporates, well, look at United for what happens then. Although I'd be scared if I had to play Chelsea at the moment.

In terms of the title race, Arsenal to beat Chelsea and United to go on a lengthy winning run would be the most exciting outcome, certainly.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 29 November 2004 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

champions league *is* a knockout cup, but surely part of being a great team is winning knockout cups (consistency is an important measure of gretness, but so is raising your game at the right times, having the bottle for big one-off games). there is no european league to prove you're the best team in europe - the only way it can be done is in a knock-out cup - arsenal may have the consistency, but they lack the stomach for the big occasion at times.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Monday, 29 November 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

AKA brittle and prone to petulence

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Also the quality of football is better in Europe, not to mention the big test of having to go to the Ukraine in November and get a result, or whatever.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

basically, Arsenal do not like it up 'em

― Porkpie (porkpie), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:03 (twenty-one years ago)

the big test of having to go to the Ukraine in November and get a result

Nice bit of topical comedy there.

Forest never really came close to winning the title again after their 42-game sequence was broken - European success, yes. Perhaps the same will happen here.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

going to the ukraine right now would be a test for any team wouldn't it? :-)

Its true that arsenal had that 'aura' hence the players have to get used to not having that. I think that's just as important a fact as having sol campbell being absent for a few games.

Knockout cups that involve clubs are way overrated - the luck involved is huge and really distorts any notions of 'nerve' etc - its esp bad since the champions league changed to allowing teams that didn't win the domestic leagues.

x-post

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

it's probably the ideal time for Arsenal to have a dip in form anyway - by Christmas they'll probably be back on track but how long can Chelsea keep up their impressive form? Utd are finally starting to hit top gear now too i think (if they buy a decent keeper in Jan then that's sure to boost their chances).

― Frankenstein On Ice (blueski), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

According to stat-types, under Wenger November has always been Arsenal's weakest month anyway. It seems pretty obvious that under Jose Chelsea's weak-spot is sturdy defending, so there's a weakness there to be exploited, but...

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)

This would be the Chelsea defence that has conceded six Premiership goals all season, then?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

This is in foreign, but I thought somebody somewhere might be interested. It's about how British football has bowed down before the magnificent play of Spanish footballers. I worry about De Pedro, has he actually played yet?

http://elmundodeporte.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2004/11/29/futbol_internacional/1101727514.html

I think it's good that Arsenal are getting their bad patch out of the way before Christmas, as it is good that Man Utd got theirs out of the way even earlier. I'm just waiting for Chelsea's mid-March collapse.

Of course, the best thing is to spread your bad patch out throughout the season, thus lulling the opposition into a false sense of security.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I meant that Chelsea's weak-spot is coming up against teams that defend like buggers (Spurs, Bolton in the second half).

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Teams with a bus.

― Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

??? they conceded the least goals than everyone else in the league?

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:54 (twenty-one years ago)

oh xxxxxpost

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

The difference is that Arsenal and United's bad patches coincided with injury crises they were unprepared for. Chelsea are prepared for pretty much anything with the exception of losing two out of Terry, Gallas and Carvalho at any one time.

Ken, quite how you manage to xpost so regularly when all your messages are a maximum of one sentence long continues to amaze me.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Monday, 29 November 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

post first, read thread later

― Frankenstein On Ice (blueski), Monday, 29 November 2004 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

i had to research to make sure that they conceded less goals than every other team in the league. it's not the amount of words in a post it's what it says, or something.

but obviously in this case your knowledge of chelsea's defensive record was way better. well done.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 29 November 2004 17:24 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm sorry that i've just broken the maximum of one sentence long rule, too.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 29 November 2004 17:24 (twenty-one years ago)

i suddenly felt all intellectual.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 29 November 2004 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i should take stevem's advice next time and not bother reading the whole thread before replying to the latest message to make sure i don't xpost. sorry guys.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 29 November 2004 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

anyway.

will arsenal bounce back next week? who will they concentrate their efforts on? vs birmingham to rebuild their league form? vs rosenborg for euro glory? they need a win to guarentee their progression to next round, esp with PSV already through.

apologies as always for the overwhelming amount of sentences in this post.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 29 November 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

Not any more.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 15 January 2005 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

read the title of the thread matt.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 15 January 2005 19:11 (twenty-one years ago)

It is currently taking every ounce of restraint in my body not to abuse moderator priveleges on this one.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 15 January 2005 19:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Do it, beyotch.

I take pride in my contributions to this thread. Brittle as feck; united'll finish second this year to Chelsea.

― Dave B (daveb), Sunday, 16 January 2005 01:31 (twenty-one years ago)

three weeks pass...

"If I'm not (playing for Real) I'm going to have to carry on playing with some bad people,"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/a/arsenal/4250173.stm

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Friday, 11 February 2005 11:47 (twenty-one years ago)

His next line is even more hilarious: "I'm sure there are none in the Real dressing room."

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 11 February 2005 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

so the reason he turned so shit is because Lehmann and Ljungberg liked to flick wet towels at his arse?

― Alienus Quam Reproba (blueski), Friday, 11 February 2005 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

those weren't towels.. etc.

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 11 February 2005 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

eleven months pass...

Speculation grows that the News of the World will reveal on Sunday that Sol Campbell has HIV.

Apparently he might even quit football altogether and go live in his house with Steffan Freund forever.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Friday, 3 February 2006 22:23 (twenty years ago)

Oh, I was wondering what it was all about. That's awful if it's true and I hope the NoW don't do that to him.

― Alba (Alba), Friday, 3 February 2006 23:07 (twenty years ago)

They don't need to now, do they?

Every single Premiership manager was asked to take part in a survey about homophobia in football and every single one declined. Football is still in the 19th century with regard to this issue.

― Venga (Venga), Friday, 3 February 2006 23:15 (twenty years ago)

Anyone know when Ashley Cole will be back from injury?

― Tehrannosaurus HoBB (the pirate king), Sunday, 12 February 2006 20:33 (twenty years ago)

I'm a bit worried we might end up going to the World Cup without Cole and Bridge.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 12 February 2006 21:43 (twenty years ago)

Yes, it would be a shame if a player who had been capped several times was unable to make the World Cup.

― Tehrannosaurus HoBB (the pirate king), Monday, 13 February 2006 16:07 (twenty years ago)

I'd be more worried about a lack of goalscoring midfielders.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 13 February 2006 16:12 (twenty years ago)

er, how many do you want?

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 13 February 2006 16:14 (twenty years ago)

Any more than two would tire me out.

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 13 February 2006 16:16 (twenty years ago)

we're certainly going to need some players who can penetrate from the back

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 13 February 2006 16:20 (twenty years ago)

also it never hurts to have a couple of benders in the team.

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 13 February 2006 16:21 (twenty years ago)

Brown wing-backs?

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 13 February 2006 16:21 (twenty years ago)

I'm going to hell

― Matt (Matt), Monday, 13 February 2006 16:21 (twenty years ago)

charlton's got the bents

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 13 February 2006 16:24 (twenty years ago)

they don't have any real fans

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 13 February 2006 16:24 (twenty years ago)

Given Arsenal's semi-collapse since they sold Vieira, do you think they would have been better off keeping hold of that goalscoring midfielder rebel Jermaine Pennant?

― Tehrannosaurus HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 16 February 2006 09:05 (twenty years ago)

Phew. Looks like Ashley's OK:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/jamiefake/oher1pq1resized.jpg

― Tehrannosaurus HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 16 February 2006 18:37 (twenty years ago)

Haha wow! What paper is that from?

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 16 February 2006 20:48 (twenty years ago)

Is his head photoshopped on?

― Too Gay for America (nordicskilla), Thursday, 16 February 2006 20:54 (twenty years ago)

Teh Sun inviting us to read between the lines.

― Tehrannosaurus HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 16 February 2006 20:56 (twenty years ago)

Holy shit that's fantastic. I always assumed Cole and Tweedy were together as part of a "Look! She's not a massive racist like you thought!" deal.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 16 February 2006 21:28 (twenty years ago)

Arsenal midfielder Cesc Fabregas has bizarrely admitted that it would be "spectacular" if Gunners skipper joined Barcelona.
The young Spaniard told The Mirror: "To see him there would be incredible -this is what everybody wants. Right now things are going well for Henry here, but we shall see what happens in the future.
"It is clear that everyone would like to see Henry play for Barcelona because, well, it would be a spectacular thing to see him there alongside the players they have.”
Expect a 'I never said them things' press release to be emanating from Highbury before the weekend is up.
Chelski, though, may be interested to hear the 18-year-old's observation on the joys of watching the champions in action.
"If you watch Chelsea they play such boring football you could doze off. I watch Barca on TV quite regularly and it's easy to enjoy — Chelsea may be effective but they play boring football," he apparently told a Barcelona radio station.

Perhaps he should consider joining Thierry in Spain next season...

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 17 February 2006 09:31 (twenty years ago)

I always assumed Cole and Tweedy were together as part of a "Look! She's not a massive racist like you thought!" deal.

Same here. But while I'm here, LET'S ALL LAUGH AT ARSENAL

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 17 February 2006 10:21 (twenty years ago)

I suppose Barcelona defending appallingly and losing at home is not as boring as Chelsea's play at home.

Cheryl is rocking those specs.

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Friday, 17 February 2006 10:28 (twenty years ago)

She's my fave rave racist pin up

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 17 February 2006 10:30 (twenty years ago)

Who else is in yout top 5?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 17 February 2006 10:31 (twenty years ago)

She hasn't got much competition, to be fair to the lass... Eva Braun maybe?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 17 February 2006 10:39 (twenty years ago)

Diana Mosely and Unity Mitford:

http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Diana_Mosley+Unity-Sept1937.png

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 17 February 2006 10:43 (twenty years ago)

ashley cole is dating allyzay?

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 17 February 2006 10:52 (twenty years ago)

They're getting married!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 17 February 2006 10:54 (twenty years ago)

bump

― Tehrannosaurus HoBB (the pirate king), Thursday, 2 March 2006 16:12 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

Oh god PLEASE let this be true

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 1 June 2006 15:57 (nineteen years ago)

eight years pass...

Arsenal 2015: Are they the best team in Europe?

... or, put it another way, is Theo on crack?

― Quack and Merkt (Tom D.), Thursday, 30 April 2015 20:31 (ten years ago)

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