Jersey Girl look like such shit and it uses Katrina and the Waves' "Walking on sunshine" in the trailer so any movie that uses that song is shit you just know it

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SHEESH

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Um any movie directed by Kevin Smith is shit cuz he is a talentless hack.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:51 (twenty-two years ago)

ok lets make this the talk shit about KS thread then please and then we'll send it to his people and get posted on View Askew and then his fanboys will come talk shit

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:53 (twenty-two years ago)

and then we;ll fuckin brawl

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Kevin Smith has fans?!?!?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:54 (twenty-two years ago)

watch

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I fail to understand how anyone could be fond of a directer who body of work includes DOGMA!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Yessss. I like the idea of his fans 'picking up on' the references in his films -- 'cos they're always to the same old shit. Do they ever wake up and think: is there more to cinema than 'Star Wars' and, um, other Kevin Smith movies? Basing my view on 'J&SBSB' and a student stage production of 'Clerks' (don't go there).

― Strachey, Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:58 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post)Oooh will they descend on us like the slightly over-weight sloppily dressed baseball hat wearing backwards salt-pepper bearded vikings of yore descended on the comic book shop when they heard that DC was selling a special limited edition platinum covered repress of Action Comics #1?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 09:59 (twenty-two years ago)

DOgma is a fun movie. as are all Smith's other films. Jersey Girl doesn't look like my bag at all though - if he loves Ben Affleck so much he should just try and make something like Good Will Hunting, or take an existing product and put a clock in it...

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:16 (twenty-two years ago)

If Dogma and Chasing Amy is your idea of fun then id hate to see a Stevem party!

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't throw parties. there are a few things about each of his films that I do really dislike tho (the obvious stuff I guess, but why let that spoil the good bits completely?).

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

why do all the people talk the same

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:21 (twenty-two years ago)

English?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 10:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex in SF otm

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:02 (twenty-two years ago)

kevin smith is gonna have much to answer for when the generation of kids i went to film school with reach "maturity" (i.e. have sucked enough studio cock to step up from directing "look who's talking 5: squeeze that stone dry" to "their own projects".)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:10 (twenty-two years ago)

"i envision my new film to be a cross between dawsons creek, the banana splits, and blade runner."

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:11 (twenty-two years ago)

(actually i would go see that. but you get the drift.)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

but their own projects (if they can get them made) will be even worse no?

what film school did you go to and how can be sure to avoid it? or is it the same everywhere?

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:12 (twenty-two years ago)

oh it's gotta be the same everywhere

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:13 (twenty-two years ago)

the weird thing is that it's not as if we werent exposed to the "history of cinema" either; it just all bounced off our hides like so many canonballs.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:14 (twenty-two years ago)

if i go to film school i will have to wear headphones with soothing sounds of humpback whales or something lest i smash a boom pole over the head of some classmate going on about kevin smith

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:15 (twenty-two years ago)

you don't like kevin smith?

― cozen (Cozen), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:16 (twenty-two years ago)

oh we love him

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not so much him as the fact that i find nothing whatsoever to enjoy in his films, and they make me feel like an adolescent cretin for the few minutes i am capable of standing them

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

oh and him too

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:17 (twenty-two years ago)

also his take on "gender relations" has done about as much damage as dashboard confessional and maxim combined

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:18 (twenty-two years ago)

really he conveniently represents everything about the world that i would like to carve away, let drift into the ether, and then forget ever existed

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 12:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Do film students also quote Tarantino scenes at each other? Perhaps I should go to film school... and then write a post-modern film about it, kind of 'Donnie Darko' meets 'The Usual Suspects'...

― Strachey, Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:07 (twenty-two years ago)

elaborate on the 'gender relations' thing someone please (i sense what you mean but can't quite articulate it)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:08 (twenty-two years ago)

He likes the idea of 'converting' lesbians. And is a big fan of the 'oh, if I just make the right romantic gesture my girl will love me again' school of thought.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, he can't write women for shit.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:12 (twenty-two years ago)

He r fule, but some of some of the films is good, or at least amusing. Nothing especially genius about him, though, and increasingly so.

NB I quite like Dogma. Haha Alanis Morrissette is God with a foghorn voice.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:14 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah that's basically it. basically he's nu-emo for even nerdier kids, providing that it's okay be a gender-trapped neurotic passive aggressive fuck up provided you're AWARE that you are one.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:45 (twenty-two years ago)

providing = proving, but even that wasnt what i really meant to say

maybe "providing an example"?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:46 (twenty-two years ago)

i couldn't work out if Smith hated women or just completely idolised them in a sexually objectifying manner to the point of twisted absurdity, but i like Linda Fiorentino's character in Dogma regardless (don't mention realism please)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:49 (twenty-two years ago)

i am just amazed he's married!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Jason Mewes and Jason Lee's turns in all the Smith films have been fantastic, except maybe in J&SB Strike Back where there was far too much nudge-winkery (tho i did laugh like a drain throughout all the same)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:51 (twenty-two years ago)

it's deeply wrong (yet oh so right) of me that i take pleasure in the fact that jason mewes ended up a junkie

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

also, maybe just maybe Smith > Tarantino with regards to acting itself

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:53 (twenty-two years ago)

jason mewes ended up a junkie

THE DAILY MAIL WUZ RIGHT

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 13:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Jason Mewes also ended up on Nike ads.

I tend to enjoy KS flicks. the J & SB one was completely self-indulgent, yet had parts that made me laugh pretty hard.

someone once put for the theory that (almost) all of his flicks are about his insecurities, e.g. Chasing Amy came from him trying to handle the fact that his girlfriend was more worldly than him(i.e. had been to Aussie Land)

― Kingfish Cowboy (Kingfish), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 14:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Clerks and Mallrats are still fun movies and y'all aren't going to ruin them for me. However, I will be very happy if I never, ever see Jersey Girl.

I actually like that everyone in his movies "talks the same", the same way I do with David Mamet movies. Like it or not, he's got an instantly identifiable style.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 14:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I know that KS movies are crap, but as Chaki pointed out the use of "Walking On Sunshine" is a surefire harbinger of a horrible movie. It's kind of like trailers that use the sound of a needle scratching across the surface of a record to convey that something "shocking" or "wacky" just happened.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Kevin Smith has made the only films I can stand to see Ben Affleck in. Of course, in those movies, he usually plays total cockgoblins.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i can only think of one other movie that uses 'Walking On Sunshine' and it wasn't THAT bad

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

And that would be...?

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

WHY was Kimberly Rew in the Waves, anyway?

― Kingfish Cowboy (Kingfish), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: the kevin smith film student vs. the david lynch film student

― scissors (Honda), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I want someone to explain why "Dogma" was apparently so horrible and wrong.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 15:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I like KS okay. His comic book stuff, that I've read, okay just his two Green Arrow arcs, were pretty good, and not all "Kevin Smith-y".
His dialogue, in comics, is among the more interesting.
Of all the shitty indie auteurs that rose up during the 90s, he's far from the worst, and vanity/self-referentialism is hardly a cardinal sin among writer/directors.

― The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

i found Chasing Amy and Dogma to be much much better the second and third time i saw them fwiw. J&SBSB actually went the other way round (from the 'Jungle Love' rap i was in hysterics in the cinema, but watched DVD and the cheesy aspects scattered throughout had really matured by then)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

the Clerks comics are great, too. Having Jim Mahfood along to draw them works perfectly.

― Kingfish Cowboy (Kingfish), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Dogma and Chasing Amy were good, and Mallrats has two or three funny moments, but I Clerks and JSBSB were pretty bad.

Perhaps I don't hate him because I've never looked at films as a good place to find relationship advice?

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

why am i so not shocked that all the "wacky" ilx'ers are okay with kevin smith

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 16:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I bloody hate Chasing sodding Amy. That woman's voice! Aaargh bamboo splinters under the fingernails is a lesser form of torture.

― Liz :x (Liz :x), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

"'wacky'"

― The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 16:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Her voice isn't that bad. No worse than Jennifer Tilly's.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Wacky?

― The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 16:58 (twenty-two years ago)

i think he meant wack-jobs, or wack-offers....

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never been called wacky before.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:04 (twenty-two years ago)

you're more shticky

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Anti-semite.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll put my wacky foot up your ass!

― The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:08 (twenty-two years ago)

you'll make the LOL thread today yet guys!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Kevin fucking Smith, god. I swear, the ink wasted on this hack. Film school was like a magnet for Smith wannabes, I can't tell you how many student films were talky relationship comedies and therefore miserable. I remember films that were about four guys sitting at a table and talking about girls. And of course crazy pop culture references to stuff like The Godfather, Star Trek, etc.

film schools everywhere are like that, I'm sure.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:14 (twenty-two years ago)

you'll make the LOL thread today yet guys!

Is this the new 'X hates fun' in terms of unanswerable comebacks?

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember films that were about four guys sitting at a table and talking about girls. And of course crazy pop culture references to stuff like The Godfather, Star Trek, etc.

Sounds more like the start of Reservoir Dogs to me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Lots of fun-hating on this thread, unsurprisingly.

― J (Jay), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

More profanity - Reservoir Dogs
More nerd-talk - Kevin Smith

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:35 (twenty-two years ago)

ignore strongo jordan, if you're that desperate to make the LOL thread you could just POST EXTRACTS FROM YOUR OWN AIM CHAT COMMENTS like somebody else does - mentioning no names - heh heh

and you can't blame Smith for inspiring a bunch of considerably dumber less creative young film-makers/writers - happens all the time with horror and action and every genre.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Gear's point reminds me why i hate Buffy, which just seems a product of the same kinda thing.

― pete s, Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Ouch.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Are there groups of film school students who steal from Richard Linklater?

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know what to say except that I usually find the Jess/Ethan exchanges pretty damn funny.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Kevin Smith when he doesn't try to be "experimental" (ie: DOGMA and Jay and Silent Bob). Clerks is still classic, chasing amy was funny for Jason Lee's performance, and this one looks decent enough. He's a better character and situation writer than he is a "big concept" writer.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

I would love if Kevin Smith got off Affleck's crotch and did a project with Jason Lee as the lead. Nobody handles his scripts nearly as well as Brody.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:53 (twenty-two years ago)

his stuff is an acceptable waste of time

― pete s, Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Owen Paul's less successful follow-up there

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 17:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I still want to know what good movie uses "Walking on Sunshine"! I wasn't being sarcastic, I was genuinely curious.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 18:04 (twenty-two years ago)

is it the movie or the trailer only that uses it? because trailers usually are made as completely separate entities from the film itself.

― The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever Stevem was referring to, in this case.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Dogma wasn't WRONG, Dan Perry, just a bore. every Smith film i find myself looking at my watch.

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

as opposed to, uh, Cronenberg?

― The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

i never said anything about Cronenberg.

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

every Cronenberg film i find myself looking at my crotch.

― dean! (deangulberry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 18:39 (twenty-two years ago)

"Walking on Sunshine" featured in
American Psycho
Bean
High Fidelity
Look Who's Talking
The Master of Disguise
among others.

And yes, I cheated by looking these up at imdb.com. If I were a true KS fan, I could've written the list from the top of my head.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey Jess, why don't you try not being a dick and answering the direct question "What is wrong with 'Dogma'?"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I will defend KS to some people and to others I won't. Dogma hit a spot in me that was wonderfully disturbing. And a second viewing of Chasing Amy brought alot to light that I had not seen in it the first time. That said I wonder why he doesn't seem to get better with each new film. Clerks was brilliant and overwhelmingly amaturish, in other words a great idea, terrible execution. And he doesn't seem to get any better at the execution.

― Speedy (Speedy Gonzalas), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

he doesn't want to lose the quaintness. he's the merchant-ivory of the comic-nerd set.

― The Huckle-Buck (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

his problems finishing Dogma were well documented, he tried to get 'guy wot did Desperado' to finish it didn't he

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

'High Fidelity' was the only one i could think of. and i really hate that bit of the film, or maybe it's kinda funny (for Jack Black)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, and if Walking On Sunshine will clear my sinuses then it will make me LOVE Ben Affleck!
he doesn't want to lose the quaintness. he's the merchant-ivory of the comic-nerd set
It's like Ellie Mae Clampet never learning to cook!

― Speedy (Speedy Gonzalas), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 20:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Why does Kevin Smith have to dress like that? He looks like such a boob. The New Zealand Kevin Smith is so much better. He was totally hot AND he was in a band with Duane!

― Arthur (Arthur), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmmm, the html doesn't seem to be working right. x-post

― Speedy (Speedy Gonzalas), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

it's deeply wrong (yet oh so right) of me that i take pleasure in the fact that jason mewes ended up a junkie

"ended up"

― Prude (Prude), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Kevin Smith is better than Robert Rodriguez, I'll give him that much.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I dunno, I like the fact that Rodriguez has essentially built up his family studio and just does everything with the help of his family and friends. It's like Zoetrope except I don't think he'll be bankrupting himself anytime soon.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Kevin Smith and His Movies

Even on this thread no one bothered to actually explain what they disliked about "Dogma".

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Let's start with the shit monster.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

you want the moon on a stick your eminence (x-post)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha Nicole! I always forget about that scene; it was certainly the worst part of the movie.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Not nearly as annoying/overused as "I Feel Good" in a movie trailer.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

it wasn't that bad at all. my favourite bit is possibly Jason Lee cropping up - that bit where he twigs LF mouthing to Bob to hit him with the the golf club = ultra-classic

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I meant the shit monster portion of that scene in particular; I had no problem with Jason Lee.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

arthur otm--i can't respect people who purposely dress like the worst slob ever (well i kind of half-respect michael moore)

jess said: "i am just amazed he's married!"

don't you meet a lot of people that raise this same question though? i guess it's a big world full of different people huh...

as for dogma, i can't answer dan's question because i've never seen it. to be honest i've only seen mallrats, one half of clerks, and one half of whatever the last movie he made was, whose name i forgot

i had enough, i didn't really see any of these willingly anyhow

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

at least michael moore wears his baseball caps on forwards...

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Oscars based on directors personal sartorial choices C or D?

― Speedy (Speedy Gonzalas), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:20 (twenty-two years ago)

well since they usually give them out for dubious reasons anyway, i'd say classic

david lynch is a snappy dresser btw

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:24 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean isn't smith the sort of guy who will wear a tee shirt to an awards show? that signifies a worldview which is so impossibly juvenile and lame

― !!!! (amateurist), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:25 (twenty-two years ago)

dan the problem with dogma is that it a. wasn't funny, b. wasn't creative, c. wasn't told well, d. featured the usual mugging mugging mugging in place of acting, comedic or otherwise, and e. smith can't direct!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:36 (twenty-two years ago)

haha anyway yes amateurist you could say that about smith being married. i have no idea if he got married before or after he started making films, but, if it is after, i guess i'd just have to be amazed any woman could just conveniently look past the rampant wimmin hatin to see the big cuddly teddy bear within.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

oh i also forgot to add: f. i absolutely fucking hate both ben affleck and matt damon.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

He named his daughter Harley Quinn!

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

That's worse than Pilot Inspektor in my book.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:40 (twenty-two years ago)

i am going to name my daugher pastor troy

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:41 (twenty-two years ago)

(Gigantic xpost but anyway:)

A. Completely subjective point that I can't argue with.
B. Since when did something have to be creative to be enjoyable?
C. See my response to A.
D. See my response to A with Linda F. caveat; I don't see how her performance can seriously be called "mugging".
E. See my response to A.

This conversation is like a bizarro version of the Justin Timberlake conversation.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:43 (twenty-two years ago)

what, you expected me to sit down and carefully dissect a kevin smith movie? would you like to extend my day an extra two hours and provide me with free, unlimited blowjobs while we're at it, oh swami?

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Right now, I'd like for you to fuck off.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:45 (twenty-two years ago)

JUSTIN ROOLZ UR ALL GAY AND BEARDLESS

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I would love if Urban Outfitters offered a t-shirt that says "I did Kevin Smith three times" to go along with the Justin one.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm totally convinced about the 'women-hating' - this is one of those straw men type things used for when a guy exhibits what seems more like frustration and confusion for women (in reality A woman i suspect) based on his own experiences and shortcomings

jess and other hataz if i said that Dogma WAS funny, creative, told well and reasonably directed would it TOTALLY FREAK YOU OUT OMG?! or would we need actual exampls/evidence?

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry bit of a x-post there

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:47 (twenty-two years ago)

argh i meant to say i'm NOT totally convinced about the women-hating

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:49 (twenty-two years ago)

no, it's just a difference of opinion! the woman-hating is probably the only non-subjective aesthetic reason i could find for really disliking his films.

steve i would address your first paragraph there if i could remotely parse it.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:50 (twenty-two years ago)

it was probably just a disguised compliment, ne'er mind

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve, he persistently presents us with two dimensional sterotyped women characters who act as props for his male characters and then writes an entire fucking film around some ridiculous lesbian conversion fantasy and saying he maybe has some uhhh negative issues with women is a straw man? I mean we're getting pretty close to arguing the Pope's a big fan of Martin Luther here.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Not nearly as annoying/overused as "I Feel Good" in a movie trailer

Or "Bad to the Bone", but then if I go much further down this road, I'll be threadjacking.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah I know Ricardo, that's pretty much how i felt after i first saw it. now i'm not so sure but devil's advocate here more than anything else, i'm not sure it's as clear cut as you and jess suggest tho.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean, it's just boys own adventures, isn't it? just instead of fantastical places and scenarios, it's run down new jersey industrial towns and slapstick. women are ciphers, they'r catalysts, they're pawns or cogs, they're items on a far perch to be attained or disdained, but they're never central to the plot, they never make any decisions (except to break someones heart or take someone back), just a device to keep the action of the story moving (and keep the gags rolling). trust me, having grown up around new jersey and knowing plenty of guys like these in my life, there's nothing about it that needs mythologizing.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Admittedly, my perception of this might be a bit screwed in that I genuinely think Chasing Amy is a good candidate for the worst film ever made, but christ on a bike whatever-her-name-is-in-the-film is BY HERSELF enough evidence for there being something really screwed up going on there beyond simple confusion/frustration. Denying the pivotal female character in your movie any sort of recognisable status as a human being is more than a bit damning.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

(just having a HEAVY realisation of how repressed i am which may explain why i can be bothered with this thread today - and not the oral sex thread ha ha - so pay no mind maybe)

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

You guys realize that the strawman you're describing isn't applicable to "Dogma" at all, right? (Also my perspective is apparently skewed by the fact that I've only seen "Dogma" and "Clerks".)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

well the guy's made, what, five films? i have seen four, and even if i take the dogma thing at face value (i only saw it once years ago) it applies to three, so already we've got a majority.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Or "Build Me Up, Buttercup". Seems like I hear that one a lot, too.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

the elephant in the room is 2unlimited

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Was that not featured in MVP?

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:09 (twenty-two years ago)

dan you asked someone to explain why THEY disliked the film, jess did, and then you dismiss it as being subjective. wtf? God isn't around to give you an objective opinion.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Clerks is dumb but fun; Chasing Amy has a few great gags but is poisonously melodramtic towards the end; Dogma is infantile and horribly directed; J&SBSB even more so.

Mallrats, however, is classic, simply because it has the most good jokes.

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

You guys realize that the strawman you're describing isn't applicable to "Dogma" at all, right?

no this was about Chasing Amy this time - and as i said earlier i liked LF's character in Dogma, not necessarily as a woman, just as a character but i haven't really thought hard about how well-written she really was. Salma Hayek was pretty wack tho, but you'd hit it

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:20 (twenty-two years ago)

that was meant to have a (/kevinsmith> after it

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:21 (twenty-two years ago)

the elephant in the room is 2unlimited
-- strongo hulkington

i might have to post this on the LOL thread dammit

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:22 (twenty-two years ago)

VENGEANCE IS MINE

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm only going to contribute one post to this thread, and I'm going to use it to say:
Dogma is terrible, terrible shit.

― NA (Nick A.), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I sort of hate the Cult of Kevin Smith, but I liked Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back because it never aspired to be anything more than a bunch of in-jokes and celebrity cameos. Will Ferrell was reasonably funny in it, I seem to recall.

I also liked Chasing Amy at the time, when I was a much bigger fan of mediocre-indie as a genre than I am now -- but I haven't seen it since. I thought Dogma was pretty dire, a collection of unfunny gimmicks and stunt casting masquerading as Smith's take on religion.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the message is, when he sticks to non-meta, non-shit monster jokes, he's actually reasonably okay.

― Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:27 (twenty-two years ago)

"Kevin Smith is better than Robert Rodriguez, I'll give him that much."

In Kevin Smith's fucking dreams could he direct something as gritty and fun as El Mariachi (let ALONE elicit the performance Rodriguez did from Depp in Once Upon In Mexico. . . NOT to mention the fact that the first two Spy Kids movies are some of the only non-Pixar family fare released worth taking your kids to.) Rodriguez has his problems and he may never direct a movie half as good as the people he idolizes, but at least he MAKES movies which are FUN not just reference-laden fucking snoozefests. Smith just directs ridiculous self-congratulatory dull as dirt yarns about people I could give a shit about doing things which don't matter with a thin slice of unfunny sub-Vice (but not like Vice cuz Smith's actually REAAAALLLLY sensitive) style jokery on top (I will admit that the gay black guy in Chasing Amy was actually a pretty well written interesting character and IF Kevin Smith was a good writer or director he MIGHT have made the fucking movie about him and it might have been watchable.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:36 (twenty-two years ago)

the only Kevin Smith film that didn't make me laugh once was Mallrats, though I won't see Jay And Silent Bob Strikes Back on principle alone. Chasing Amy turns to hog balls the second he flips out about her slutty past, and memories of Dogma (aside from Jay scoping the abortion clinic for loose women) imply the film probably hasn't aged well. I'd like to say he should stray from attempts at sentimentality or "importance," but since Mallrats is the worst thing he's done...

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex in SF otm re: rodriguez. Kevin Smith couldn't even have pulled off that short film in Four Rooms.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh I forgot about that! Yeah that's the only good part of Four Rooms.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm still surprised how much people hate Dogma, but i did refrain from seeing it until a good two years after it's release myself.

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I really enjoyed it at the time, but there's a lot of preachy elements that nag at me in hindsight.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Chris Rock cracking wise in Dogma=classic. Chris Rock acting scared when it looks like LF is dead=DUUUUUUUD. Jay is golden the whole way through.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

and for a student film (which is basically what it is) Clerks is SO classic.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 17 March 2004 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Dogma was by far his worst. His attempt at taking the piss out of religion didn't work for me at all. Opinions from upthread about J&SB being so great because it was mostly about taking the piss out of celebs is totally OTM. Ben Affleck playing Ben Affleck is 1000 times better than Ben Affleck playing any other role.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I like them all, but I wouldn't say any of them are clazzik, particularly not Clerks. Contrary to ILX opinion, I think Dogma was best, but my reasons are likely spoiled on you lot.

― J (Jay), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I think what's annoying about Kevin Smith, especially with regard to his place in the pantheon of "American independent film" (this is a guy who wrote the introduction to the reissue of Spike, Mike, Slackers, and Dykes, a history of American indie film, 1984-present) is that he made a cheap movie with his buddies for a few yuks (Clerks) that became a surprise hit because it was modestly entertaining and proved he had an ear for dialogue -- and yet he has shown absolutely no desire to move beyond just making cheap movies with his buddies for a few yuks. The reason Dogma stands out as being particularly execrable is that he's had the initial success to make a movie about something (Catholicism), and with bonafide Hollywood actors, and yet it still feels like some slapdash, juvenile, "look-we're-making-a-movie!" production. I mean, look at David O. Russell, who also debuted in 1994 with an extremely low-budget, crass, character-driven comedy (Spanking the Monkey) -- but five years later moved on to Three Kings (which I have no great love for, mostly due to my impatience with war movies in general, but you see my point!), while Smith was thinking up some new stupid scenario for Jay & Silent Bob to wind up in.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

jay & silent bob meet the wolfman

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I realize what I just said is sort of a rockist complaint (Russell "graduated" to more "meaningful" territory), but whatever.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:19 (twenty-two years ago)

ok I was gonna say he just needs a better cinematographer but the guy who did Dogma did Rushmore the year before so clearly that's not entirely the problem (though part of it - Dogma did look better than his previous films, all done by the same guy). Vilmos Zigmond's doing the new one!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I think you're pretty otm, jaymc.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i hate kevin smith mostly because he was inspired a new generation of wise ass dorks to become "film students" and "screenwriters."

there is a black guy at my work named kevin smith.

― dean! (deangulberry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:29 (twenty-two years ago)

if anything we should be thanking smith for letting those dorks realize that their films didn't have to include QT-style gunplay. the tide was already starting before Clerks.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:33 (twenty-two years ago)

FYI, and I don't know why I know this shit, but he got married to a playboy model after he became famous. He photographed her for playboy, the pics are out there if you want to look.

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:53 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree w/everything everybody said in this thread.

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Thursday, 18 March 2004 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

and yet he has shown absolutely no desire to move beyond just making cheap movies with his buddies for a few yuks.

Actually, I find that admirable in a way!

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 March 2004 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I stand corrected about Rodriguez, I forgot about that segment in Four Rooms, Rodriguez is better than Smith. And I also forgot about the whole "kill the chef" scene in Once Upon a Time In Mexico, that was great. Fuck, I must have been drunk when I made that post before.

Also, good point about Smith vs. David O. Russell. If anyone cared to notice, Dogma was just as shitty as his other movies but just because Smith tossed in some boring theological dialogue, people thought it was important.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 18 March 2004 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

but seriously folks! Jersey Girl stars Benlo and KEVIN SMITH'S DAUGHTER. thats just fucking tacky.

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Thursday, 18 March 2004 01:36 (twenty-two years ago)

women are ciphers, they'r catalysts, they're pawns or cogs, they're items on a far perch to be attained or disdained, but they're never central to the plot, they never make any decisions (except to break someones heart or take someone back), just a device to keep the action of the story moving (and keep the gags rolling).

ok, i don't at all intend this to be an antagonistic question, but i am curious. i'm asking jess, but the floor is open to anyone who finds themselves in the contradictory position of loving a (subset of y) and hating b (subset of y): how exactly do you rectify your love of, say, ludacris with the above? at what point do you move from misogyny being an unfortunate attribute in artists you enjoy/tolerate to it being a central reason for your dismissal of them? are artists that are misogynistic/*istic in a way you don't understand more likely to be tolerated or endured?

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 18 March 2004 01:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Is misogyny anyone here's central reason for dismissing Smith?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Is misogyny anyone here's central reason for dismissing Smith?

I just think his films are poorly written (and poorly edited). Chasing Amy was thematically brave, I suppose, but all it really succeeded at was putting a taboo subject out there for discussion. Clerks was okay for what it was, entertaining enough to a point (before devolving into lame slapstick and really overdoing and underthinking the potty humor). It should have been a 20-minute short, not a feature.

The Jersey pride is kind of endearing; surely there's a place in the canon for vaguely well-schooled but potentially thuggish suburban kids whose parents and teachers have mollycoddled every last wacky brain-blip and called it "creativity."

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:42 (twenty-two years ago)

especially in ILX.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

where is custos' movie, anyway?

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:50 (twenty-two years ago)

how exactly do you rectify your love of, say, ludacris with the above?

The difference is beats and bass (I'm guessing).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 March 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

The difference is not beats and bass. Good art can be made by people who have ideas or hold beliefs I disagree with or find repugnant. I can derive enjoyment from/acknowledge the value in their art while simultaneously remaining somewhat critical of their ideas/beliefs. If Kevin Smith made great films we could all talk about how great they were with the caveat that they appear to be rather misogynistic. He doesn't make good films so instead we talk about how much they suck and btw they are also rather misogynistic, ick.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:07 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post)

fuck custos. your statement helps explain MY student film.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

it feels kind of redundant now to say that i hate kevin smith too! i didn't notice anyone mentioning his visual "style," surely the ugliest of any recent filmmaker i can think of, indie or not

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

TS: The visual style (or lack thereof) of Farrelly Bros vs. Kevin Smith hahaha

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:38 (twenty-two years ago)

i'll take the farrelly brothers over kevin smith any day!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

(x-post)(note: I love love love Kingpin but their flicks have got to be the cheapest looking pieces of crap ever. They both make the Blair Witch Project look like Lawrence of Arabia though.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 18 March 2004 03:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I prefer my beats and bass answer.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 March 2004 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

(Less subjective, y'see.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 March 2004 04:06 (twenty-two years ago)

While this might be a reason to dislike Smith movies unto itself, how does that measure up to "woman-hating"?

Would anyone on Earth expect Smith to make a woman his focus? Has he shown any ability to write a protagonist who isn't a facet of Smith's own identity?

Most of the problems with him here seem to stem from the expectations being brought on the part of the viewer - expectations that Smith (by all appearances) neither wanted nor attempted to meet. Jordan OTM earlier - I'm totally OK with someone who wants to make cheap, sorta-dumb movies with his friends for yuks.

Strongo's film-school commentary puzzles me - don't you always say you hated film-school because of all the pretentious nuts trying to be Antonioni or Godard? But you hate people making silly relationship flicks (without enough emotional depth for the chiXors), too?

Like, seriously, what kind of wannabe directors are you OK with?

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 18 March 2004 04:34 (twenty-two years ago)

milo see upthread:

"i envision my new film to be a cross between dawsons creek, the banana splits, and blade runner."

(actually i would go see that. but you get the drift.)

― Dave M. (rotten03), Thursday, 18 March 2004 09:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Vilmos Zigmond's doing the new one!

Yes Gods! Look up Vilmos' and Lazlo Kovacs' biogs -- this is truly wack.

― Strachey, Thursday, 18 March 2004 09:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned OTM - but don't forget the mad flow

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 18 March 2004 10:29 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not women-hating it's women-being-unnecessarily-mystified-by

s1ocki correct in putting visual style between scare quotes

i like matt damon, but liking ben affleck usually suggests a lack of oxygen following birth

― !!!! (amateurist), Thursday, 18 March 2004 12:47 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't even think of Smith as having a particular visual style but i don't see anything especially bad about his films visually - certainly not more than the Farrelly Brothers or the Wayans neither of whom I don't think are as talented as Smith

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 18 March 2004 13:03 (twenty-two years ago)

For fuck's sake, I wasn't dismissing Jess's opinion.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 13:30 (twenty-two years ago)

If anything, I wanted him to expand upon it, but whatever.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

The difference is that Ludacris is funny.

(/jess)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

(I think they're both funny of course)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:35 (twenty-two years ago)

ha, what if Jersey Girl > Chicken & Beer

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:40 (twenty-two years ago)

there's always a possibility.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:44 (twenty-two years ago)

END TIMES

― stevem (blueski), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:59 (twenty-two years ago)

look, i'm not saying i want to face up to it either

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 18 March 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

from popbitch:

Michael Jackson was trying to get a film called
Hot Rod made, directed by Kevin Smith. The film
was about how a man, played by Jackson, would hang
out with a little boy, then morph into a car,
which the boy would then get into and drive.
(Dr Freud...anything?)

― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 18 March 2004 15:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I alone in thinking JASBSB is hilarious regardless, Clerks is tres classique, and everything else he's made is barely withstandable?

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I think JASBSB may be the best thing he's done!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

(That doesn't make his "career" as a "filmmaker" any less annoying, though.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

The black director scene in JASBSB was unforfuckinggivable.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:43 (twenty-two years ago)

There was a black director scene in "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back"? (I just remembered that I saw that one too and thought it was complete and utter in-jokey fluff.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever, that scene was funny! Although it could've been much better with Dave Chappelle in place of Chris Rock.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah it was like a reactoionary rundown of every nasty stereotype about spike lee.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

compare to "pootie tang's" funny and loving rundown.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

As a huge fan of JASBSB I will also concede that it (nor any other movie ever) in no way whatsoever compares to Pootie Tang in terms of awesomeness.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 18 March 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I still don't remember this scene! (Although to be honest, anything that puts Chris Rock in a position where he is mocking Spike Lee has a high probability of making me laugh.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

i liked Clerks when it came out, i think more in part because i was a clerk at the time. a thread about kevin smith should not be this long

― kephm, Thursday, 18 March 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

is teeny serious with her last post???

― kephm, Thursday, 18 March 2004 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

The black director scene was awful. Chris Rock as angry-black-directorman/Spike just was grating and had zero laughs.

Okay, one - "Niggas With Puppets" (which sounds like a Chappelle Show skit)

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 18 March 2004 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I seriously saw it on popbitch, anyway!

― teeny (teeny), Friday, 19 March 2004 00:16 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

ok so i dont know anyone that has seen this film

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Saturday, 10 April 2004 21:04 (twenty-one years ago)

For cyring out loud, I bet you Kevin Smith hasn't even seen the ultimate case study on Jersey Girls : www.njguido.com

― donut bitch (donut), Sunday, 11 April 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd rather see Jersey Girl than White Chicks

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Sunday, 11 April 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't tell you how many student films were talky relationship comedies and therefore miserable. I remember films that were about four guys sitting at a table and talking about girls. And of course crazy pop culture references to stuff like The Godfather, Star Trek, etc.

Replace "films" with "threads" and whaddya get . . . .

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Sunday, 11 April 2004 06:55 (twenty-one years ago)

six years pass...

As further proof that the movie is actually happening, Shock Till You Drop has just received the logline for Kevin Smith's upcoming, and pretty mysterious, horror pic Red State. It's far from a detailed plot synopsis (no spoiler warning necessary), but it does give us a better idea of what the film will be about:

A group of kids encounters a crazed preacher (based on Fred Phelps, founder of the Westboro Baptist Church) who gives a whole new meaning to the term "extreme fundamentalism."

We still don't know a lot about the film, but Smith had previously announced that the production is scheduled to begin later this month, with a $20 million budget. Last month, Kevin also said via his Twitter, "God-willing, Sundance in Jan for RED STATE."

The film will star frequent Quentin Tarantino
and Robert Rodriguez collaborator Michael Parks. Other actors rumored to appear include Kyle Gallner, Melissa Leo, Dermot Mulroney, Michael Angarano and Steven Root.

― buzza, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 21:48 (fifteen years ago)

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