Jews: where do Hassidic / Orthodox Jews buy their clothes?

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A serious question. Where do you get yarmalukes, those wide-brimmed hats, black outfits?

― cooleyhighharmony (roger adultery), Thursday, 15 April 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

The Mormons have magic underwear stores you know!

― Lil' Fancy Kpants (The K is Silent) (ex machina), Thursday, 15 April 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I want Tefillin, like real bad.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 15 April 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

There are stores that sell religious apparel and goods.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 15 April 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

You might find some in Borough Park (Brooklyn).

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 15 April 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

There are some nice Orthodox hats out there, I must admit.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.tznius.com

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 15 April 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, some of that shit is stylin'.

Actually, it's about time I dug out some of my old Saturday morning get-up. I'd probably look super-hip and ironic.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Only if you combined the yarmulke with a trucker hat.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 15 April 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Only if you combined the yarmulke with a trucker hat.

i am actually surprised that you DON'T see this in williamsburg (which, pre-hipster invasion, was best known for its orthodox community).

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 15 April 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

When I was in Spain a few years ago, I saw a group of Hasidim at the Madrid airport. With them they had a huge baggage carrier cart full of boxes of those black hats. And on the side a label said, 'Made in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY.'

PS, a great way to see that neighborhood is via the B61 bus.

― 57 7th (calstars), Thursday, 15 April 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, it'd be cool to pull it off like Benicio del Toro in Snatch. But it would only really work if you had a gun.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Btw, I stopped by a (Orthodox) Passover dinner my mom was at a couple weeks ago. One guy looked EXACTLY like a Hassidic Tom Green, and one looked EXACTLY like a Hassidic Jason Lee.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

moishe da shulcat.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 15 April 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I should stop and ask Gary Lucas next time. I always see him walking around in full Hasidic regalia.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 15 April 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

He was at the Knitting Factory's Downtown Seder this Passover.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 15 April 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

One guy looked EXACTLY like a Hassidic Tom Green, and one looked EXACTLY like a Hassidic Jason Lee.

Okay, so two Hasids with beards?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 15 April 2004 02:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, the one looked EXACTLY like Tom Green if Tom Green had no beard. And was a Jew.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 02:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait, I take that back, he did have a goatee. So, yeah.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 02:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Three of those Orthodox guys were in the pub last night, watching Newcastle v. PSV Eindhoven and a-hoopin' and a-hollerin' when Newcastle scored - my Jewish friend reckons it was because Newcastle play in black and white.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Or, presumably, because the pub was also in Newcastle?

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

No, it was in London

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

who has seen the film 'the pianist' with the jew in it. i never used to really care about jews but that film made me deeply sympathize with them

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Pardon? The jew?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:04 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah the jew

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:08 (twenty-one years ago)

You mean like "Passion of the Jew" sorry "Passion of the Christ"?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:10 (twenty-one years ago)

no i just mean the jew.

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Let me guess, you're from Europe somewhere?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:12 (twenty-one years ago)

yep. why?

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I could guess from the strange attitude to Jews

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

why strange?

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

We have Jewish people in Europe too you know.

(Though the attitude is odd)

― Anna (Anna), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm in Europe... not continental Europe however

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Err yeah... v.odd.

― N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:38 (twenty-one years ago)

you're just bitter.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i know. im friends with a jewish person. its not as if i have something against them, but i also am interested in what Hitler and whoever else opposes them has to say

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:39 (twenty-one years ago)

All this "them" stuff is a trifle, errrrrrrrrrrr, disconcerting

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:39 (twenty-one years ago)

dont be so uptight. i would refer to any large group of people as them.

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Cass, although nothing you've said has been obviously negative it's your willingness to single out a group of people in a very us-and-them manner I think people find disconcerting.

― Anna (Anna), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway. Next to Stoke Newington Station (London, UK, Europe) are a couple of second hand shops where a thrifty/broke/shabby chic seeking person can buy all manner of hats etc. They had an excellent selection of puffy alice bands for the laydeez last time I looked.

― Madchen (Madchen), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:51 (twenty-one years ago)

no i think people are just overeacting. if i wanted to refer to lets say my parents about something i would say 'they'. am i not singling out my parents?

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 09:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Borough Park, NY is Judiaca Central. But there are stores in every city with a notable Jewish population where "they" buy their garb.

― mike a, Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"im friends with a jewish person."

Wow, the "some of my best friends are..." line!

― mike a, Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyone else seen Hassids beating their kids on more than one occasion? I'm all for discipline, but DAYum.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i've seen lots of people beating their kids in public

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Conceded.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

i dunno, but i know where they buy their electronic hardware - have you ever been to the photo/video/etc megamall i NYC, on the corner of 9th and 35th or something? it's a complete mindfuck. everyone is wearing traditional jewish clothing, apart from a few black people at the counter. everyone has the curls and the beards and the hats. it's like being in the old testament, but with a lot of camcorders. wow.

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

you know people wouldn't have dressed like that in biblical palestine...

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

desert climate and all

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:46 (twenty-one years ago)

whatever. it's like being in jerusalem, then! i guess - i've never been.

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:48 (twenty-one years ago)

no, perhaps it's like being in pinsk ca. 1870, but even that is debatable

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, in some ultra-religious part of jerusalem. i don't think that ... whatever, i'm just making a fool of myself. anyway, go to that shop, it's an experience. sorry i can't remember the name of it, can anyone help here?

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Oys r us

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

is it near a largely hasidic neighborhood or do many hasids take a special trip to shop at the store?

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

no idea. there's a lot of costumers wearing the same clothes, but it's the staff that makes is truly amazing. there you'll see trad jewish clothing in all shapes & sizes.

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 15 April 2004 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

im not gonna prove to you losers what i feel about a certain race. if you wanna hear me say it then fine 'fuck all jews, let them all rot in hell' lets finish what Hitler started

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

a lot of hassidic jews buy their hats at fancy hat stores, I know they like the big Italian names. you can buy regular shirts and pants anywhere. actual religious clothing/gear like tzitzes, yarmulka, teffilin, tallis, etc can be acquired legally at pretty much any jewish bookstore, but those black kind of overcoat sort of things are a little hard to come by. you can't get them anywhere - there needs to be a substantial ultraorthodox community, like in brooklyn. For example, you can't get them up in Boston.

this http://www.tznius.com site is TOO good.

― AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"you know people wouldn't have dressed like that in biblical palestine..."

What I don't understand is the haredim who live in, like, Texas or Arizona. How you rock the beard and the full-on garb without fainting every day, I don't understand (or maybe that's proof of God's presence?). You'll never see an Orthodox summer wardrobe, like the lighter police uniforms with shorts.

― mike a, Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i know. im friends with a jewish person. its not as if i have something against them, but i also am interested in what Hitler and whoever else opposes them has to say

"Opposes"? They're people, not a regime or something.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Legend has it that when the Sex Pistols toured the South, Sid Vicious met some Hasidim and was infatuated with the outfit. Apparently he asked if he could have their clothes, but they said no. But then, Boy George's initial Culture Club outfit was a modified version of the hat/suit/peyis, so maybe word got around.

― mike a, Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

i dont give a shit what they are. to me theyre nothing and im not gonna pretend anymore that i care. cause i dont. so next time i see one of 'them' ill shove my foot in their ass as far as it will go...and then describe here in detail all the stupid faces that the jew pulled. haha

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

(See, this is why I avoid the Jewish-themed threads on ILX - even if we're talking about food or clothes, it always ends in something like this.)

― mike a, Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, sorry, I didn't realize that you were a troll, nevermind.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

is cass the new geir hongro? apart from the fact that he has turned mild nowadays, he used to display the same eristic attitude (albeit about less serious manners, obv.).
if so: welcome to the cassbot!

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

That's no way to treat your Jewish friend is it?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

That's it. I'M TELLING ZOG ON YOU, CASS.

― mike a, Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha, Amateurist, that's very funny!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Cass, would you snuggle a Jew?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

jewish friend?? obvioulsy your little brain hasnt yet figured out that alond with being a racist im also a liar!!! why would i have a jewish friend.
i understand that jews might be animals but at least they have the common sense not to come near me

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

haha

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Come here. Let me put my arm around you.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

i hope your jewish friend is not this guy:
im in love with a boy and were slowly becoming good friends......

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

It's like the spawn of C***m and B3cky Luc4s.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Smuggle a Jew?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Jay Kid hits the spot

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Snuggle. Would you also like a demonstration?

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

nope your wrong jay kid or whateva. its not that guy. fuckin idiot. i like that guy.

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Your search - hebrew snuggling - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:
- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.
- Try fewer keywords.
Also, you can try Google Answers for expert help with your search.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I snuggle Jews all the time - actually they snuggle me

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, you are quite snugglable.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

What a strange thread this is.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

To bring it back to the subject at hand - there really are Mormon garment stores in Utah. I don't think you're supposed to know about them if you're not Mormon, though.

― mike a, Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Shucks, are you Jewish by any chance?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

or maybe i hope it's that guy, so you would fall in love with a jewis fella. wouldn't that be nice? :-)

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

There hasn't been a Nazi/Jewish wedding round these parts in, ohhhhhhhhh, quite a whiles

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:24 (twenty-one years ago)

fall in love with a jewish fella??? hmmmm i dont think so since i can spot a jew out from a mile away...

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:27 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.ratpack.biz/images/gallery/sammy/sammy007.jpg

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha

― Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:29 (twenty-one years ago)

SOMEONE was going to post that. They always do.

How about this?

http://dnrministries.com/photos/ethiopian.jpeg

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway. I've made my point. I'm going for coffee.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm outtie, too. have fun, cass.

― Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

oh no... dont get me started on niggers!! too much to say

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:31 (twenty-one years ago)

ummmm...actually those are jews.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

But don't worry your tiny head about it. Just fuck off.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:34 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah fucking black jews. thats just sik

― CAss (CAss), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

before this thread is deleted/overrun with people showing off how outraged they are at this internet troll, can i tell a recent girl story? it's not as good as jess's last one but it is relevant.

scene: bar
girl comes up outta nowhere, introduces herself, and the small talk commences - in this short space of time it is somehow revealed that i am jewish. a little later her friends come over.
her: "hey guys, i'd like you to meet..." (struggles to remember my name)
me (thinking): "oh no, you're not gonna say that, you wouldn't.."
her: "...the jew."

(after that we made out for about 15 minutes in a very crowded bar so i'm not quite complaining, but it was.. awkward. she also felt the need to comment on my lack of jew-fro - "yeah, i got straight hair for christmas", i told her.)

― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

haha

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not outraged, just bored and frustrated.

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

what did i write that was funny? (do i seem funny to you? etc.)

seriously, the hasidic standard outfit has much to do with the way that similarly religious jewish communities dressed in eastern and central europe before the early 20th century. what i do know is this: the hasidic sects evolved, for the most part, from "exclusionist" movements of the 19th century (i.e. opposing the intregationist ideas of many jews in central and western europe) which were, interestingly enough, often anti-zionist. since the founding of israel the "split" has become distinctly complicated, as you have many hasids and other ultra-orthodox jews making homes in israel and palestine, indeed there are many people in the settlements with origins in american orthodox and hasidic communities. so that explains the crossover in dress. "normal" israeli jews will dress like every other western person would dress (in desert weather that is).

i've never quite understood the particular nature of hasidic dress, why it retains so many particulars from jewish dress of an earlier place and time (even--as michael notes--against the logic of hot weather). i suppose it's an extension of the "exclusionist" idea that i mentioned above. one cannot mistake a hasid for anyone else, it serves as just one means of ensuring that people stay within their own community. this could be equally achieved by wearing hasidic baseball caps but i understand that the weight of tradition is strong.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 14:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel pretty awkward around Hasids usually. I always forgot that the women can't shake hands with me and make an ass out of myself. They've also been pretty patronizing imo, but that might just be me being overly defensive about my lapsed Jewishness.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

no, i understand, it's a hard issue to deal with--for me as well--because their comportment is calculated to rend them different from those around them, and unlike momus, i don't find this charming or really admirable, even if i balk when people make blanket criticisms of them, especially when it seems to spill over into a vague general anti-semitism.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

RUN ON SENTENCE sorry

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Exactly...I feel oddly compelled to defend them in general, even though my experiences with them on a personal level have never been very positive.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

The women can shake hands with you so long as they're not menstruating. A Hasid or Lubavitcher or whatever won't shake hands with a gentile woman because she might be on, and he can't exactly ask if she is before, so...

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

in certain sects males are not supposed to even speak to women (or respond to their address) save for their immediate family

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, I know that...Nick used to have a Hasid landlord who would not even speak to his female flatmate.

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

i wasn't correcting you suzy, just adding a bit of info

that phenomenon really unnerves me, i once happen across a hasid artist selling his paintings in the street and my friend (female) made the mistake of asking him a question, he sort of flinched--almost imperceptibly--and then stared straight ahead as if she weren't there.

he wasn't by any means attempting to be rude, of course, but all our many years of accumulated understanding of social niceties make it difficult not to react as if he was, even if we knew better.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

That's not my understanding at all, from the Hasids I've spoken to. I've heard the women aren't supposed to touch any men other than their husband (or let them see their hair, etc.), and men aren't really supposed to even make direct eye contact with other women (I'm sure this last point has a lot more leeway).

The women I've talked to have said that the handshaking thing is only lifted if it would cause more embarassment to the Jewish people to not shake hands, i.e. a really important business meeting or something.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

it depends on which variety of ultra-orthodox you're speaking about, which rabbi (living or historical) they are following, which religious books they consider to be essential (aside from the torah/talmud of course)

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, of course. That's another thing that really annoys me since my mom started rolling deep with the Orthodox. There are SO MANY conflicting rules and regulations, you can basically justify anything you want to do if you find the right passage or look at in the right away, so it's all basically arbitrary anyway.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

well one could step back and say that about all manner of things human, notably religion

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, of course. On the other hand, you can say that all the laws in a country are arbitrary to one degree or another, but you still (in theory) have some degree of repercussion if you break them no matter how you rationalize it. With this though, I would prefer someone just admit that they're doing what they want to do rather than bending over backwards to find religious justification for act A and then saying, "No, I couldn't possibly, due to Talmudic subsection 34.2.1, there are no options."

Personal issues, obv.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I know those electronics stores Jay Kid is talking about, and am fascinated by them. In fact, it would be great to write a song called 'Camcorder Hassidim' about those people.

What seems to be emerging on the thread is a mood of 'I like different folks as long as they aren't different in ways I would call bad.' To which the best response is something (gasp) Bin Laden says in his new tape: 'In my hands there is a message to remind you that justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do not.' Now, if only he would practise what he preaches.

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I work part-time in a chain mall-type clothing store, and awhile back a group of Orthodox (Hasidic?) Jews came in, the men and teenage boys dressed in black garb with white dress shirts... and one of the teenagers asked me, "Where are your white dress shirts?" So: the mall, sometimes!

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously, though, what do they think will happen if they don't wear the dress code?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i've talked to many hasidic women, i live in a very hasidic neighbourhood with adherents to a lot of different sects (though i believe they are predominantly satmar, which happens to be the most anti-state-of-israel sect around). also i was a shabbas goy for a hasidic family once, i didn't tell them i was jewish and they gave me a bag of candy (they called it a "present.")

they wanted me to turn their fridge on!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

i dunno what kind of answer you're expecting girolamo

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I once got yelled at in an Orthodox home for idly playing a little melody on the piano I was standing next to, because playing music and practicing is 'work' and thus forbidden on the Sabbath (but not singing obviously?). The Hasids really bring out the snarkiness in me, and I really wanted to say something like "Well, I guess that's why you never hear of any hot Orthodox trumpet players, they'd have shit for chops."

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

weere they hasids or orthodox?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

i dunno what kind of answer you're expecting girolamo

Me either. Nonetheless, I welcome any non-troll attempts.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, they de-circumsize them

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

haha

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Was it good candy?

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 15 April 2004 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I currently go to a synagogue that's has many black hats among its membership. By and large, the people there have been infallably friendly: opening their homes to my wife and me, helping us out however they can, etc. This despite the fact that I'm clearly more secular than they are (I mean, it's not as if I discuss female vocalists with them, but my dress and mannerisms scream "secular"). I don't know that I'll ever be able to get my head around the separation aspect of Orthodoxy - not just between men and women, but between the frum and secular world. I guess I admire the commitment that such a lifestyle requires, even if I don't think it's 100 percent an option for me.

― mike a, Thursday, 15 April 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

what I learned about the clothes and music is this:

the hassidic style of dress clothing comes about from a few factors. First off is modesty, you gotta have modesty (http://www.tznius.com - hehe), next is that movement towards isolationism/separationism/uniqueness, basically as someone said before, making it so that you can pick out a hassidic jew in a crowd, finally, the reason it's dress clothes and not say, baseball caps, at least for lubavichers, is that you're supposed to expect the messiah to come today, and so you should dress nice for the Final Redemption. wouldn't you?

the music on the sabbath thing is really kind of convoluted but it basically comes down to the following reasoning: work cant be done on the sabbath, fixing something is work, if you play an instrument, you'll probably want to fix it (ie, adjust something, tune it, etc), so because this might happen, there's a blanket ruling on no playing of music. it's weird. i thought it was kind of silly when i heard the explaination.

i think the not talking to women or shaking their hands thing is crazy. i can see it if both people know better, but if a gentile woman talks to that hassidic artist on the street, he should fucking talk to her. it makes his religion look bad and him look like an asshole if he doesnt. at least say "lady, im sorry but i can't talk to you. company policy..." i dunno.

I grew up in that kind of environment and i'm still harboring a lot of resentment towards stuff like that.

― AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 15 April 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

B&H is the Hasidic run photo/video shop in Manhattan. (I've always thought it would make a great short story setting.)

― bnw (bnw), Thursday, 15 April 2004 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Y'all should write it, BNW. :-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 15 April 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

"What seems to be emerging on the thread is a mood of To which the best response is something (gasp) Bin Laden says in his new tape: 'In my hands there is a message to remind you that justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do not.' Now, if only he would practise what he preaches. "

"what seems to be emerging" -- do you think perhaps my quite explicit, clearly layed-out ambivalence on this matter might have had something to do with this vague sense of yours?

there are, indeed, certain behaviors that--believe it or not--are both "different" and "bad"! not to suggest that any particular one of common behaviors amongst ultraotrhodox jews fall into that category, but i thought that for your edification i'd let you know that it exists.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 18:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i.e. what you perceive as a conflation of "bad" and "different" --which, if it exists in the real world, is still largely a bogeyman on this thread-- is no more facile and dubious than the conflation of "different" and "good" by which you salute "orthodox jews" (your brothers in bohemia?) on your web site. neither bothers to take into account the particular nature and diversity of t heir practices or the function they serve within the orthodox community.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

conflation of "bad" and "different"... is no more facile and dubious than the conflation of "different" and "good"

But a lot more friendly.

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 15 April 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

i suppose, but it's about as "friendly" as any other "positive" stereotype; i.e. it has the same effect of condescending to the subject.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Was it good candy?

no.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 18:55 (twenty-one years ago)

(it was different and bad)

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

you would say that

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

i meant it in a friendly way!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

That is what I suspected. Were they P&Ps?

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 15 April 2004 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm not familiar with those! they were chewy and fruity.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

P&Ps are rip-off M&Ms

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 15 April 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

somehow the fact that it was bad candy makes it more endearing

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh man, someone gave me P&Ps for Purim. Still haven't tried them.

― mike a, Thursday, 15 April 2004 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Rosemary is like the Ask Jeeves of Judaica!

― @d@ml (nordicskilla), Thursday, 15 April 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

now if somebody would explain the existence of celery-based soda to me. what is that all about?

― kjoerup, Thursday, 15 April 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Dr. Brown's Cel-Ray falls into the category of "Jewish cuisine I avoid," pursuant to that other thread awhile back about gefilte fish.

― mike a, Thursday, 15 April 2004 20:45 (twenty-one years ago)

i love celery soda!!!!!!!!

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 15 April 2004 20:46 (twenty-one years ago)

as awful as celery soda tastes, there is something even worse (and secular!): big red soda from waco, texas. it's bright red, tastes like bubble gum and red licorice. truly vile stuff. i think it's the drink of choice for rednecks. and i even once saw a photo of george w. guzzling this horrid concoction.

― kjoerup, Thursday, 15 April 2004 20:50 (twenty-one years ago)

that kinda sounds good

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 15 April 2004 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, who has ever looked at celery and said "man, if only there was a way to drink that"!? yknow? (laughter)... crazy, just crazy... (sips bottled water)... so, i started seeing this girl a couple weeks ago... father's a taxidermist...

― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 15 April 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I live in the middle of an ultra-orthodox Jewish enclave (hence the lame pun in my name), and I can't for dear life work out why all the Jewish ladies dress up to the hilt for their Saturday worship, but when the weather's bad they never carry an umbrella but wear those dreadful old-lady accordion plastic bonnets. A thousand-dollar wardrobe and a ten-cent rain hat. It seems crazy to me as an outsider, but undoubtedly there's some logic to it which is obvious to them.

Just curious, not mocking anybody's religious practices....

― Holden Caulfield North, Friday, 23 April 2004 01:59 (twenty-one years ago)

orthodox jews forbid the carrying of any objects on the sabbath, so an umbrella is out of the question completely.

― AaronK (AaronK), Friday, 23 April 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

b&h is a GREAT camera store, BTW. it's a few blocks west of penn station/madison square garden. i don't think that it's in an orthodox jewish neighborhood (though there is a synagogue a block away). also, i heard somewhere that hasidic dress was based at least partially on the 18th century wardrobe of the polish bourgeoisie.

though i am not jewish, and generally not favorably inclined to ultra-religious people (and not to this whole rebbe-business that the lubavichers engage in), my encounters with hasidic people have been pretty pleasant. but it seems that you need a scorecard to keep track of the different hasidic communities in and around NYC (e.g., what's the difference b/w the lubavichers, the shatmar, and the kiryas yoel?)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 29 May 2004 03:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck fuck fuck B&H.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Saturday, 29 May 2004 03:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Worst customer service I've ever encountered, high prices on used gear, and you can mailorder everything they stock new for the same price from equally reputable shops.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Saturday, 29 May 2004 03:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i never had a problem w/ b&h. but then i went to the store, i haven't dealt w/ their mail-order operation.

oh yeah -- the other day, i saw the rebbe's mitzvah-mobile when i was having lunch!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 29 May 2004 03:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm incredibly bitter about a $1000 purchase they tried to screw me over on at Christmas that took almost two months to get cleared up.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Saturday, 29 May 2004 04:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Snoods
Casual & Formal
Can't beat it.

― Skottie, Saturday, 29 May 2004 04:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Kiryas Joel is a village in "upstate" NY populated by Satmar Hasidism. To answer the original question, they buy their clothes at Woodbury Common.

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Saturday, 29 May 2004 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

Only if you combined the yarmulke with a trucker hat.

Do baseball caps count? Because yesterday on my street I saw a Hasidic man wearing one.

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Saturday, 14 August 2004 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Popular item among Hasidic ladies: those shiny Harrods tote bags. I haven't quite figured out why yet.

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Saturday, 14 August 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

ten months pass...

The reason why singing is allowed on shabbat while playing an instrument is not is because playing an instrument is work, while singing is actually the singing/chanting or prayers. There is actually a ruling somewhere (Talmud? mnm, don't remember) that says that you should always sing/chant prayers, the reasoning being that it makes them easier to remember - they sink in more.

― you better believe it (you better believe it), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

Aha, even better - so, work is not allowed on shabbos. Playing an instrument is technically allowed, but it is not done because if it broke then you might fix it (ie, do work) without remembering that work is forbidden.

― you better believe it (you better believe it), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 17:39 (twenty years ago)

which is pretty plausible if the instrument is something like a guitar.

is Kiyras Joel the place with all the bungalows up in the catskills or something?

― AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 14 July 2005 02:12 (twenty years ago)

no, the bungalows in the catskills are more summer homes, this a full time village.

Although I think there may be more full time communties springing up in Sullivan County, which, previously, has been kind of depressed/run down.

― tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Thursday, 14 July 2005 02:15 (twenty years ago)

Singing takes work and 'fixing' if you're a bad singer!

Buncha rockists.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 14 July 2005 02:21 (twenty years ago)

Could you tune your guitar?

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Thursday, 14 July 2005 02:25 (twenty years ago)

I love how that Cass weirdo jumped up and down like a yappy little dog for a few posts and was so totally ignored that she had to give up. I seem to recall she tried this on a few other threads as well. What a strange person.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 14 July 2005 03:38 (twenty years ago)

teenage girls are scary

im 17 and no one has ever called me scary before. except for when i get really angry. but then again isnt everyone?

-- CAss (CassandraKollakis@hotmail.com

(PS - Trayce, I distinguish between sexual orientation and gender alignment. That other thread got locked because of whineypants.)

― Jon, remind me again why you haven't drowned in your own vomit (ex machina), Thursday, 14 July 2005 03:43 (twenty years ago)

as a jew born in the usa, im frankly amazed at the nonsense some people are talking about, if its the dress you dont like , havent you seen pictures how our founding fathers like george washington dressed? i think it resembled a little more to the hassidic dress code than to the baseball cap, t shirt and jeans from our days, and the women of that era? i think the hassidic women of today are a little more fashionable, does that make you smarter then our founding fathers?

― david gold, Thursday, 14 July 2005 12:52 (twenty years ago)

while searching for pictures of sheitles and not finding them, I tried searching "jewish hair". you'll get this, of all things:

http://www.zu-doof.de/pix/freizeit/bilder/jewish-hair.jpg

its NOT safe for work.

anyway, i still think tznius.com is funny especially sheitles - ie, hair snoods. also, this thread goes into the history of hassidic dressing customs, as well as halachic explainations.

― AaronK (AaronK), Thursday, 14 July 2005 13:56 (twenty years ago)

Hassidic Jewish men buy their special hassidic jewish clothes in specialty shops

Long coats can be bought at G&G, Roth Clothing, Kesser Clothing, and others - there are regular ones that look like suits for weekdays and shiny silk or silky polyester ones for sabbath, holidays, and special occasions like weddings. the buttons go right-over-left, for kabbalistic reasons.

these stores are located in Hassidic communties, like Williamsburg, and Boro Park, Brooklyn, Monsey, and Monroe, upstate NY, and in Golders Green London, and in hassidic communties in the Holy Land, such as Jerusalem and Bnei Brak.

the hats are specially made for hassidim, and are sold in hat stores in those communities.

then there are fur-brimmed sabbath hats worn by married men that cost over $1000

Non-hassidim wear regular black fedorah hats, as do the most modern of hassidic sects, the lubavitchers

they wear regular suits, and might wear frock coats too, but usually not the hassidic type

some non-hassidim wear the long shiny coat (bekeshe) on the sabbath, usually only in the house like a smoking jacket

the reason for long clothes is because in Bible times everyone wore long robes with belts and hats, usually turbans, and the hassidic garb is a modernization of the biblical clothes, by adding buttons and lapels, but the idea comes from the way Jewish people always dressed. the first Jews who did not wear long clothes were the German Jews, but the practice eventually went even to many hassidim.

hmmmmm
what else do u want to know?

btw - B&H has been rated as one of the best camera stores in NY for courtesy and honesty. most camera stores are notorious for being dishonest - and this one is very honest because of our holy faith

also
the Hassidic "Ask Jeeves" is "Ask Moses" but its run by Lubavitchers, and they dont know much about satmar and other sects because Lubavitchers are very modern and dress like non-jews with beards and hats - they are the prosletizing ones - everyone else just wants to be left alone and love everyone -

to find out about Kiryas Joel see www.kjvoice.com

love :)

― real life hassidic jew, Thursday, 14 July 2005 22:02 (twenty years ago)

hi!

Why are black Harrods bags so popular amongst some Hasidic ladies?

I didn't know Kiryas Joel had gone online, interesting.

― tokyo nursery school: afternoon session (rosemary), Thursday, 14 July 2005 22:13 (twenty years ago)

btw - B&H has been rated as one of the best camera stores in NY for courtesy and honesty. most camera stores are notorious for being dishonest - and this one is very honest because of our holy faith

I have done business with B&H. And it was good.

― giboyeux (skowly), Thursday, 14 July 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

I could have sworn this said "Jaws: [...]". It was confusing me.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 15 July 2005 03:33 (twenty years ago)

I have done business with B&H. And it was good.

A trip to B&H is like a little holiday, even if the guys in the used department only pay attention to you if you are cuet and blonde (read: not me), and got help you if you're there when the little conveyor belt thing goes down... it's kinda funny actually.

― Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Friday, 15 July 2005 03:44 (twenty years ago)

The conveyor belts!!!!!

― giboyeux (skowly), Friday, 15 July 2005 03:45 (twenty years ago)

and little wee elevators for the baskets to go up and down on...

― Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Friday, 15 July 2005 03:55 (twenty years ago)

seven months pass...

want to see if this posts first.

― dubz, Wednesday, 1 March 2006 04:34 (nineteen years ago)

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