The Rudest British Film Ever Features Bands Playing

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My mouth is opening and closing, but no sound is coming out! Fans of Super Furry Animals have never had it so good. I hope they're wearing their Yeti costumes.

http://film.guardian.co.uk/cannes2004/story/0,14498,1218440,00.html

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Well harumph. Looks a bit rockist. Are the SFA still going then?

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

The music listed = passion killer x 1000.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Franz Ferdinand! Revolutionary! It says here!

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

(wilts)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

The Black Rebel Bollocking Motorcycle Club are pure, distilled libido supressant.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 14:38 (twenty-one years ago)

The rules for making a film with explicit sex include:

When doing PR, emphasize it's a love story ('action is character').

I wouldn't care if he had set out to make a great pr0n movie really.

― Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

when it comes out on DVD, will the chapters be:

shagging
music
shagging
music

so you can watch all the ~~shagging~~ concert footage at once...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

SFA already make this film 1000x better than Intimacy, regardless of shaggability/music ratio

― Morley Timmons (Donna Brown), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

well seeing as how the first thing you hear is "intimacy" is the fucking clash, that wouldn't be (ahem) hard now would it?

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:06 (twenty-one years ago)

i love it, this seems like such a 60s head movie

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

This movie is already outdated.

― deanomgwtf!!!p%3Fmsgid%3D4581997 (deangulberry), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Y34H G0DD4MN PH|LMZ LIKE TH|Z ARE LIEK SO FUKCING 20 M|NUT3Z AG0 WTF???!!?!/1!!1/1!!?1!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

they could make the ilxor version, "nine threads: omg wtf lol". It could be a couple sitting around in silence, then wasting their work day posting away, and then sitting around in silence again in the evening. It's be a metaphor or you know some sort of comment on modern communication.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess it'd be kinda funny if it gets an R18 rating.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm trying to imagine watching an ejaculation scene that features BRMC but the sudden fits of hysterical blindness anda'iga aiorng'ag904nma4gj 4a9ga4ga muscle spasms are gneorg0934g 34=- ging in the way.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

You scare me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

How can it be the "rudest British film ever featur[ing] bands playing" and not be this?

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Fair point.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread is already outdated.

― deanomgwtf!!!p%3Fmsgid%3D4581997 (deangulberry), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

the other rule for making sexually explicit art-house movies is: moodiness, grimness. 'intimacy' put me right off sex for, ooh, twenty minutes. sex in these films has to be kind of pathologically intense, without joy.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 07:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Torygraph (btw scrub what i've said elseehrre in re this guy, sheesh wtf lol):

Shown out of competition, the film starts with the guy flying above Antarctica, trying to warm his almost frozen soul with memories of the lanky, unpredictable woman with whom he had once shared the most intense moments of his life. Then we see them embracing the perpetual present of the best pop music at shows by contemporary acts such as Super Furry Animals and Franz Ferdinand, motoring up to shingly coastal beaches, exploring each other in bed.

The italics are mine. 'Exloring each other' has a kind of 'medical' resonance pour moi, but whatever gets you off, connotation-wise.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 10:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I am keeping my mind open. Winterbottom doesn't put many feet wrong.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 11:57 (twenty-one years ago)

(I agree with Enqrique about most arthouse sex, but the brief hotel room scene in Winterbottom's Wonderland is completely joyful.)

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 12:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Now I think about it, it's my favourite sex scene ever and I want to watch it right now.

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

but not re-enact it, no

― stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm blinded! I've got champagne... in my eyes!"

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 12:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with Enrique too, but it seems to me that the culture has been crying out for some time for some really classy and life-affirming arthouse pornography. When did we last get any? David Hamilton? I think this sounds great! Like "I Am Curious (Yellow)" or something. And when did Winterbottom ever make a bad movie?

― antexit (antexit), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 12:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Butterfly Kiss

― N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 19 May 2004 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

'Butterfly Kiss' is better than 'Code 46'.

I think they're going to talk about 'Nine Songs' on the 'Late Review' Cannes Special tonight.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 21 May 2004 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Should be interesting: 4 people who seem never to have countenanced the idea of having sex talking about it.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

oh i expect Germaine will be in

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Sadly not: Mark Kermode (the thinking man's Teddy Boy), Julie Myerson (no idea), Tom Paulin (he rings up Carsmile sometimes) and Mark Lawson.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Paulin's okay. Kermode is good, but he has a bit of a monoploy on film crit for the middle classes (Statesman, Obs, Radio 2, C4, *and* Newsnight Review wtf omg!!! ). Dunno who the other one is. I only see it when pished, and usually end up cheering Morley against the other slags on it.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Julie Myerson has written some books and really likes John Updike. The latter quality bodes ill, possibly.

― Ricardo (RickyT), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:41 (twenty-one years ago)

does Tom Pauling really ring up Carsmile sometimes?!?! Steve IS the Indie Source granted.

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 21 May 2004 08:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Not really, he had to go *through* his switchboard once or something.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 21 May 2004 09:07 (twenty-one years ago)

i wondered why my ears were burning....

i did speak to tompaulin once when i was in oxford. as PJM points out it was only to put him through to one of our lecturers.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 21 May 2004 09:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Sometimes I worry about the things I remember.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 21 May 2004 09:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I know people who were tutored by the dude. English students. Ladies. Pretty ones. Who he selected at interview. And who I'm sure totally deserved their places.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 21 May 2004 10:14 (twenty-one years ago)

this movie sounds so spectacularly pretentious that it's GOT to have some tricks up its sleeve!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 21 May 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Jim Jarmusch to thread!

― j.lu (j.lu), Friday, 21 May 2004 23:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I missed them talking abou this (if indeed they did), but I see Mark Kermode has a commentary on the new 'Tommy' DVD. Has anyone experienced it yet?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Saturday, 22 May 2004 09:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Is there a reason why this doesn't appear to be on the IMDb?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 22 May 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know. It looks like they've left a gap though. It's not in his Cannes biography either. Maybe it's just too rude. Perhaps they took Winterbottom's advice, 'we can always take that out'. By way of a bonus, here's the lovely Shirley Henderson's CV:

http://www.hamiltonhodell.co.uk/lo/hen_pc.html

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Saturday, 22 May 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

i love her!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 22 May 2004 22:44 (twenty-one years ago)

"the story is framed by shots of Matt flying over the desolate plains of Antarctica, as he remembers the relationship from afar."

Bah-hahahahahaha!

― Serya (Z_Ayres), Sunday, 23 May 2004 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

four months pass...

I have seen this film (in Spain). I may 'blog' my thoughts if they come out in a nice shape, not least because I have never been on Do You See. In the meantime, suffice to say it is a very bad film indeed and the Super Furry Animals are not wearing their Yeti costumes.

Interesting Yeti revelations on Michael Palin's programme last night.

Also, I have now got that Tommy DVD.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 18 October 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

it's passed

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 06:09 (twenty-one years ago)

woohoo!

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 07:55 (twenty-one years ago)

They talked about it on 'Front Row' last night. It was quite interesting. I think it is a good programme. I keep changing my mind about this film, or my mind keeps changing on its own. Now I think its weaknesses might be its strengths.

I wish my weaknesses were my strengths.

I see that my Tommy DVD's packaging is decked out like a pinball machine inside, with the 'flippers' holding the booklet in place.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 09:21 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...

ahaha here are teh press notes. rockist4life bitch!

"9 songs takes place in London in the autumn of 2003.

Lisa is an American student in London for a year. Matt meets her at a Black Rebel Motorcycle Concert at the Brixton Academy. Matt falls in love with her and the film follows their relationship, as well as seeing songs from each of the concerts they go to together:

Black Rebel Motorcycle Club
The Von Bondies
Elbow
Primal Scream
The Dandy Warhols
Super Furry Animals
Franz Ferdinand
Michael Nyman

In between the music and the bands we see Matt and Lisa making love and it is through their lovemaking that their relationship unfolds.

We follow their love affair up until Christmas when Lisa leaves to go back to America."

― Miles Finch, Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:32 (twenty-one years ago)

haha indie fuxxors get no nookie though!

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Not on film, anyway.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I still think that '9 Threads' pitch upthread is worth a punt. It could be a compilation film, one 'thread' by Tarantino (starring Momus), one by Edward Yang (Amateurist) ect ect

― Miles Finch, Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway, why is it rude, this film? Does it make itself a coffee without asking if you want one?

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

"we see Matt and Lisa making love"

― Miles Finch, Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Yet another English boy/American girl romance. Blah blah, BORING, enough already. Poo.

― Masonic Boom-Boom (kate), Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Nobbing Hill

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Thursday, 20 January 2005 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Porn with good music = best thing ever, surely?

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha if it was good music, perhaps!!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Sex with Good Music? Actually, come to think of it, no music is better.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 20 January 2005 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

It is not very good porn either.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Thursday, 20 January 2005 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

With 2 exceptions, that's awful music.

― Sasha (sgh), Friday, 21 January 2005 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

It has been banned in Australia! What in the hell. The couple are a couple in real life, the sex real and consensual, and yet we can watch all the faked, sick sex and violence we like.

Stuff you, OFLC.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 21 January 2005 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think they are a couple in real life. That's one of the many problems witht he film, their relationship just doesn't convince. Although I suppose that applies to a lot of couples in real life.

Lucky old Australia, I say.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Friday, 21 January 2005 10:29 (twenty-one years ago)

http://film.guardian.co.uk/interview/interviewpages/0,6737,1397249,00.html

Of possible interest:

He's just finished filming on Winterbottom's latest picture, an adaptation of Laurence Sterne's supposedly unfilmable novel The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy starring Steve Coogan, Ian Hart and Shirley Henderson, among others.

― Peter Stringbender (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 25 January 2005 10:26 (twenty years ago)

I've decided it's time to take stands, be uncompromising, and call out Winterbottom as a no-talent fule. 'TLAOOFTS, G' will be the noughties 'Tom Jones'.

― Miles Finch, Tuesday, 25 January 2005 10:33 (twenty years ago)

hey hey! badly shot porn! this is the worst film i have ever seen. ever. it's the unique combo of bad music, bad dialogue, bad acting, bad (ie dogme 1895) film craft AND GROTTY SEX that makes the this a world-loser.

― Miles Finch, Wednesday, 2 February 2005 09:13 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

Winterbottom identified the film's potential audience as 'students', which I thought was bracingly frank.

Here is the Telgraph view:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;sessionid=T435POOGVUXWLQFIQMFSM5OAVCBQ0JVC?xml=/opinion/2005/03/07/do0703.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/03/07/ixportal.html

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 7 March 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

i disagree with him abt the limitations of film 'as such' but *this* film really is bad. i am reviewing it so will say why later (and erm jim, a) lots of films are given to reviewers on video; b) this one was at press screenings too). sukhdev sandhu at the telegraph really likes it, though he acknowledges the music is shite, cf. the excellent Plan B magazine. winterbottom is probably right.

PJM, what did you think of the film's guiding muddled metaphor (something to with with icepack = love)?

― NRQ, Monday, 7 March 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

I have not seen this film and can think of few less tempting ways of spending my time, but Miss AMP's review in Plan B was good: it's pretty much what I would expect.

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 7 March 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

nyman's quote is the best

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 7 March 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

got my dirty mac ready for the cinema release this week. i'm gonna download it and re-edit it, removing all gig footage or just replacing it with more lovely soft pr0n

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Monday, 7 March 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

winterbottom is being so faux about this film. the poster image is a woman using a vibrator. the bbfc tends to think 'art' films exist in another world from porn (they call porn 'sex films now); when i saw 'baise moi' a guy was wanking himself off a few rows away. i don't know what i think (except 'eww! fuck off!') about that.

stevem -- i know everyone says this but it REALLY isn't arousing.

― NRQ, Monday, 7 March 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

What did Nyman say? I read something but I can't remember what.

I thought W'Bottom was being faux until I read that thing about students, which I thought was quite witty. If it makes lots of money which he then uses to make 'nicer' films like Tristram Shandy, then fair enough.

I thought the icepack scenes were just there because W'bottom got a taste for doing those kind of shots in In This World and Code 46. The stuff the bloke says over them is very dull. The philosophical aspects of the film (you can be in a packed Brixton Academy and still feel alone!) were very poor, but perhaps students will lap it up. Boom boom.

I found parts of it vaguely arousing.

Unless you've seen the film, you can't tell it's a woman using a vibrator. It just looks like a bird writhing around.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 7 March 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

two weeks pass...

This thread has existed for nearly a year and no one ever mentioned the fact that the male lead is played by none other than Children's BBC's Gruey!

― Chriddof (Chriddof), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:14 (twenty years ago)

They should have called the film 'Gruey Screwy' (as the second series of Gruey wz called Gruey Twoey.) My riend wants to see it bcz shee eally fancied him in Childrens Ward.

― Gruey, Friday, 25 March 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

five months pass...

GRuey? OMG WTF????

― Adam In Real Life (nordicskilla), Thursday, 25 August 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

Haha. I have a few clips of this film

― P/-\s|-|m!na (Pashmina), Thursday, 25 August 2005 21:17 (twenty years ago)

Not the music bits, heh.

― P/-\s|-|m!n@ (Pashmina), Thursday, 25 August 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

they're ok, I guess.

(haha @ "gruey screwey", even though I have no idea who "gruey" is)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 25 August 2005 21:19 (twenty years ago)

I love that there's a herpes ad on this article.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Thursday, 25 August 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

Gruey has a giant weenis. Just saying.

― Legroom at the Vista (Bent Over at the Arclight), Thursday, 25 August 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

Fuck knows what happened to my spelling when I posted as Gruey up there. I guess it was method spelling cz I bet Gruey can't spell.

I thought that you didn't have anuthing of that sort on tr computer Pashmina?

― Raw Patrick (Raw Patrick), Thursday, 25 August 2005 21:57 (twenty years ago)

Evidently I have now! :-/

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 26 August 2005 07:15 (twenty years ago)

"idle curiosity" + "broadband" + "bored @ work" = "something of that sort in yr computer"

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 26 August 2005 07:16 (twenty years ago)

I look @ that list of bands, and I imagine zane lowe commenting, in his over-exitable way, on the, uh, action.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 26 August 2005 07:17 (twenty years ago)

As predicted by Carsmile, the DVD does indeed give you the option of watching just the concert footage.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 26 August 2005 07:28 (twenty years ago)

Haha omg.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 26 August 2005 07:43 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

I cannot find the thread for "A Cock and Bull Story".

I thought it was an excellent film, very funny, top entertainment.

It did not, however, win a prize.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 26 September 2005 07:17 (twenty years ago)

There was a snippet of this film (9 songs) on c4 last night.

I should own this really, as I like all the bands, and sex.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 26 September 2005 07:49 (twenty years ago)

i'd rather see dave lee travis play macbeth

― N_RQ, Monday, 26 September 2005 07:59 (twenty years ago)

two weeks pass...

is this ever coming out in the US? I downloaded it anyway but now I don't know if I should bother to watch it; the concept of a bad Winterbottom film scares me. the girl is quite cute.

― kyle (akmonday), Sunday, 16 October 2005 13:30 (twenty years ago)

it came out in new york a few months ago. if the concept of a bad winterbottom scares you, then, well, he's made a hella scary body of work.

― N_RQ, Monday, 17 October 2005 07:54 (twenty years ago)

i finally saw this the other week and it is rubbash and not hott.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Monday, 17 October 2005 09:06 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

I finally saw this the other week, and hey it's alright.

It's basically a low budget "Betty Blue" with little story, some OK acting, realistic sex scenes, and some song excerpts.

1) That's not a real one! That's a baguette covered with a chamois leather.
2) As I say, it's a bit much when the nine songs are shortened versions.
3) Especially when the 'film' is 65 minutes! Does that qualify as a movie?

It's basically a well done student film. Not a complete waste of time, but it needs more story and full length songs. It has enough sex scenes though.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 28 November 2005 12:01 (twenty years ago)

'betty blue' has all sorts of crazy shit like acting, characters, story, cinematography, style, sexiness, etc, etc.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Monday, 28 November 2005 12:05 (twenty years ago)

'Nine songs' has acting, characters, sexiness, list ends.

― mark grout (mark grout), Monday, 28 November 2005 12:06 (twenty years ago)

seven months pass...

this film is k-rubbish and embarrassing for everyone involved

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 29 June 2006 14:35 (nineteen years ago)

I saw the interviews as extras on the film.

The girl explains how she got the part, her 'feelings' about taking on the role, and says that she's being very selective about the films she will be doing in the future.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 29 June 2006 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

she's doing ONLY straight up soft porn from now on?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Thursday, 29 June 2006 14:53 (nineteen years ago)

(I got the impression she was only going to do non-porn, and wasn't getting any offers.)

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 29 June 2006 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

she comes across as vapid in the extreme - i assume that's why she wanted her name off it, rather than b/c of the sex (although it's hard to know; this movie could be taught in film theory classes next to peeping tom and laura mulvey in the "male gaze" portion of the syllabus)

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 29 June 2006 15:09 (nineteen years ago)

On the interview? (vapid?) Yeah, I'd agree.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 29 June 2006 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

in the movie. i haven't seen any extras, i doubt i could make it through them.

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 29 June 2006 15:29 (nineteen years ago)

maybe it's just that i've known people who act like that - there's something almost frightening in their uninterestingness

― Tracey Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 29 June 2006 15:30 (nineteen years ago)

I quite liked her in the film. Can't think why.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 29 June 2006 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

tracey otm. dunno about the male gaze, and i don't think w'bum is skilled enough to *have* a gaze, y'know? it's kind of a bunch of stuff that happened and he sort of filmed it and vaguely edited the thing. the swine.

― Roughage Crew (Enrique), Thursday, 29 June 2006 18:39 (nineteen years ago)

four years pass...

RIght, so since the couple acted in this film, how has it affected their career?

Kieran O'Brian has apeared in Holby City, Secret Diary of a Call Girl, and Vera

Margo Stilley has appeared in "The Trip" with Steve Coogan, and is about to appear as Cynthia Plastercaster in "Hippie Hippie Shake"...

― Mark G, Thursday, 2 June 2011 14:30 (fourteen years ago)

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