Amtrak - Classic or dud?

I rode on bi-levels out to New Mexico in 1989, 1991 and 1993.

Really, how strange. I guess SoCal was low on the totem pole for replacements, then.

Donut Bitch rode the train down from Seattle to LA at least once, and while they came in late it was still a good trip, so I hear.

Amtrak also classic for stopping at LA's Union Station, which has been in more movies than I can count. (The police station interior in Blade Runner is a good recentish example.)

On the other hand, Amtrak is a total dud for costing too much even for unreserved coach class with a veteran's or student discount and for never ever ever ever being on time. It'll leave on time, it'll arrive on time all the way from DC to Philly, and then after that it's a total crapshoot with NJ Transit local trains sharing the same lines all the way to/from Trenton to Manhattan. Lame.

The DC-Boston corridor Amtrak Experience is probably quite different from anywhere else in the country. The mix of people on the regular trains is quite a bit different from what you describe.

What I remember, as a young man obsessed with Americana, was the incredible feeling of privilege I had in being able to see some of the less travelled landscapes in upstate New York, Louisiana, Texas. I've never had that feeling travelling by car.

The Portland conductors say that Amtrak communications south of Portland are shit. This is almost a direct quote.

I think my bedroom for my move to NYC from Chicago via Amtrak was around $300, but that was one-way and I got a moving subsidy, so....

I like Amtrak but it's too expensive, esp. in the Northeast Corridor. A round-trip from NYC to Philly should not be $90.
-- hstencil (hstenci...), June 1st, 2004.

just being supportive!

(sob)

And well, I wasn't the only one being fleeced. There were several lanes trying to escape Staten Island to the Turnpike via the Veracruz(?) bridge...

Hstencil tells the truth, but there's something to the masochism of taking commuter rail from New York Penn Station to 30th Street Station, Philadelphia: still under $30 round trip! But my word can those SEPTA trains be rank.

I've wondered how fare you can go taking regional and commuter rail, and no Amtrak, through the northeast. Some northerly suburb of Boston, out past Providence... is there still an eastern CT commuter train? And then is there any connection between Philadelphia regional rail and Baltimore? Or DC?

I love Amtrak (even though I can't afford to take any long trips on it in style), but this is crazy talk. The only way to experience Texas (the southwest in general) is with a car. It's all about finding the out-of-the-way little towns and being able to stop whenever you want.

gareth to thread obv

Milo OTM. The little side roads actually have the same speed limit as the main highways even (last I checked, 70mph day, 65mph at night)... the only exception being when you have to come down to 30mph or so when you encounter a small town. However, it's through the small roads where you see the green rolling prairies and all the beautiful Texan scenery most people who grunt and bitch through I-10 or I-20 or what not miss.

Yeah, we should've taken NJT --> Septa on Sunday - our 6:05 was totally crowded and smelled bad, which is pretty rare for Amtrak.

The furthest I've gone via commuter rail in Eastern Connecticut is Old Lyme, I think, but that was like 9 years ago.

as someone who had to do the NYC-to-Philadelphia-and-back thing for almost a year-and-a-half, the $96 amtrak roundtrip is a BARGAIN compared to the alternative. which is an xpost to what others have said, but I SPEAK FROM BITTER EXPERIENCE.

service b/w philly and pittsburgh can also get snarled b/c amtrak shares the rail w/ SEPTA's R6 ("the main line" --> hence, the name for all of those über-snooty/absurdly expensive philly 'burbs.)

i like the regular coach service well enough. the late-night (i.e., 9 PM/11 PM service) trains pretty much let you sit wherever you want (including business class), the lights are dim (so you can either sleep or get a WONDERFUL view of boathouse row as you pull outta 30th street, the unappreciatedly-great philadelphia skyline as you cross the schuylkill, and of course the TRENTON MAKES THE WORLD TAKES sign so beloved of certain ILXors), and NOTHING beats the quiet car at that hour (the no-cellphone/don't-blast-that-fifty-fucking-cent-cd-on-yer-IPOD rule IS strictly enforced!!) and, by the time that year-and-a-half commute-from-hell was over, i got to know the food-stand lady on the 11PM well enough to be able to get a buy-one-get-one-free coffee deal!!

(x-post)

xpost there's nothing wrong with taking the Chinatown bus besides less reliability. Cost wise obviously they are the sanest option.

The Zephyr (Mormon trail across Iowa, Rockies, edge of the Colorado Plateau past the Book Cliffs/Grays Canyon/San Rafael Valley, Energy Loop, Great Basin/Armpit of America, Sierras) is much more varied and likely more consistently interesting than the Empire Builder, but the latter has a highlight that probably tops anything on the former - it goes straight into Glacier National Park (not to mention follows the northern Mississippi, crosses the Cascades at Stevens Pass, and hugs a bit of Puget Sound).

ET or ally: i presume that they drop you off in philadelphia's chinatown? if so, that WOULD be a good deal for me.

I haven't taken the one to Philadelphia, but is this anywhere close to you?

yacht would be good too
no, make that a schooner or clipper

relaxed travel for pleasure is good
(as opposed to mad rush to destination)
holiday travel is the pits

ICE

Trains should be cheaper!!! And I love Amtrak!

I cancelled a trip to visit when i found out I HAD to fly as there were no trains

Don't get me wrong, it'd be great if train travel in the US were cheaper, but the US loves its cars too much for Amtrak to ever be anything more than a money pit for your tax dollar(s).

If more people used Amtrak, its prices would go down. But the price isn't going to go down before more people use Amtrak. Not if the airline and car manufacturer lobbyists have anything to say about it.

But for the sake of argument, let's play out your Amtrak "Field of Dreams": You, me, and the rest of US taxpayers subsidize, heavily, Amtrak - to the point where the cost of taking the train from NYC to DC is the same price (or less) than a tank of gas.

Where does this money come from? More money out of my (meaning every taxpayer's) pocket? Or does the gov't divert money from Medicare to Amtrak?

Secondly, take the typical suburban family: How do they get around once they get to DC? Are they expected to abandon the independence their minivan grants for the sake of the environment? What happens when they want to go to Six Flags and the DC infrastructure doesn’t exactly stretch that far?

And finally, will this money create/repair/renovate the rail infrastructure nationally? So that a bill in Congress won't die before the ink dries? That is, how does one convince an Iowan to subsidize the Northeast corridor? Why should he/she?

Secondly Amtrak can't compete with flying, at least not until Acela actually becomes Express. My wife just took the regional train from Boston to DC. Duration: 8 hours. Same trip on Acela? 6.5 hours. Same trip by plane? 1.5 hours. At least in Europe when they say "Bullet Train" they mean fast, not just more expensive.

And again, it's a nice pipe dream, but how do you pay for the subsidy?

People always underestimate how long it takes to fly, since they only consider the flight time. A flight is 1.5 hours but you've got to allow for at least an hour check in, perhaps more these days, and airports in most cities (although not Boston, admittedly) are waaay on the outskirts of town, whereas most train stations are right downtown. Travel to the airport adds another half hour or so at each destination. So (ignoring how Logan is fairly central) that 1.5 hour flight is actually more like between 4 and 5.

And of course it's something of a pipe dream: We've have decades of malnourishment of our rails and fortification of our airlines. I still think we subsidized the wrong industry.

That even if Amtrak should/could/would try to compete with the airlines, it can't.

I'm under the impression that Acela trains run at a similar speed to European expresses; certainly faster than the 125mph that's the top speed in the UK.

(although the UK has had 140mph trains for the past 15 years, it still doesn't have any tracks with speed limits that high)

That is only 62 mph on average, since there are too many places where speed is hampered, particularly between New York and New Haven, Connecticut.

This segment is no where close to its promise until Acela average speed matches non-stop, auto average speed (70 mph) and then exceeds it."

More: http://www.soulofamerica.com/travel/rail_network.html

Where does this money come from? More money out of my (meaning every taxpayer's) pocket? Or does the gov't divert money from Medicare to Amtrak?

let's maybe look at the auto industry's hidden subsidies for some of that money?
why is a paying for a highway supporting public infrastructure, but paying for a rail line is a subsidy?

But honestly, I'd rather do that than fly.

I look back with real fondness on my time as an Amtrak customer. Every Amtrak employee I interacted with (the guy who sold tickets, the guy who checked tickets, the guy in the snack bar) were all really pleasant, and not in that "hi I am your new best friend, where's my tip?" way so usual in the land of the free.

i was also toying with the idea of heading up to Albany again or maybe even as close to Adirondack Park if feasible as i'm quite curious as to what this vast-looking park is like. the ideal would be going as far as Montreal but i imagine it's smarter to fly there especially as my stay will be brief.

I guess it boils down to how much money you have to spend and how much of it you want to spend on the train.

I've never taken the train from NYC to Albany, though, but in Albany it meets up with the Lakeshore Limited and you can continue to Chicago. I remember when I went to Chicago though we were delayed for a little while waiting for the connecting train from NYC to arrive. That was a bit of a pisser.

No--if the train was actually a "reserved" train and there is absolutely no confusion going on here, then she is owed a refund. Trust me. I've gotten them before for that (the only way more people can be on a reserved train than there are seats is if the conductors allow on people who have tickets for other trains--in the example that I"m thinking of with myself, an Acela broke down at Penn en route to Boston, and they allowed the Acela passengers to get on the reserved, which meant half of the reserved customers couldn't sit now).

They really truly don't overbook, as far as I can tell. The problem here is not the system, it's the people using it, the guys who get on the trains without having tickets for the reserveds/acelas/metroliners and the conductors who don't then throw the fuckers off when they don't produce the proper ticket. Other than that the only time I've seen any of those three trains be "overbooked" were not cases of overbooking at all, there were technical failures and in order to get passengers to point B they loaded them onto the next leaving train.

But yeah, she's owed a refund for that anyway. This might've happened 12 years ago so I might not be helpful here for you, personally.

stevem, might I suggest the briefly aforementioned metroliner? It is the price point between the regular train and the acela. Acela is very nice like for sitting in and the cafe has significantly better food and drink options and you are guaranteed to have a car that is outfitted with outlets et al for your laptop or whatever technology needs. The regular train you are NOT guaranteed outlets (and I've been on plenty of trains without) and you are not necessarily guaranteed nice seats--if you get on the regular unreserved/reserved regional trains, look for the cars with BLUE interiors, they are much newer and nicer than the RED interiors (usually a train will inexplicably have both kinds, or recently there's more that are all blue). HOWEVER the Metroliner is the midpoint. It's a reserved train with nice seats and plenty of room, though not quite like the Acela, isn't quite as expensive as Acela, slightly faster than regional, is all made of newer cars so you will get an outlet for your laptop. If you are just riding amtrak once or twice for vacation only purposes, I would recommend METROLINER.

Another benefit of Metroliner is that, unlike regional, no crackhead family of assholes with screaming children will get on your train (too pricey for them) but, unlike Acela, you won't get the dreaded middle manager screamy cell phone self-important types either. Metroliner is like old school business and quiet people, it's pretty cool. I'd take it always if it wasn't quite so much expensive over the regular trains.

xpost The last two people I spoke to who took the Ctown bus anywhere had hellacious experiences with it, Mary.

I just f elt like s aying that word ag ain.

And insertiing unnecessary spaces in my post.

Ally Z: I have had hellacious experiences my last 3 trips on my beloved C'town bus. One involved a post-Xmas bus that just never showed up: apparently we were advised to wait 3 hours until another bus might come--then I took the hint and grabbed the Grey. The other two (and I am assuming the future trips as well) are down to the fact that a certain undesirable element has found their way to the Ctown bus.

But God, you can't argue with $35 roundtrip btwn NYC and DC. I'd rather spend the difference on overpriced, cheaply made clothes.

http://images.ibsys.com/sh/images/Screengrabs/dickvandykeshow3.jpg

the WORST amtrak experience evah MUST be going from philly to NYC on one of the early trains. all of the crowding described above, 30 minute delays, AND screaming crackhead families/obnoxious yuppie cell-phone blatherers. the absolute NADIR.

and the problem is big where you are

you guys should do something about that

maybe that WAS worse than the morning train hell after all.

maybe I should open this up to all states on that thread then.. i dunno.. i'm barely awake.

in other news:

Hastert called Treasury Secretary John Snow on behalf of a constituent's loan request. The applicant was no struggling small businessman, and the amount was not trifling. The speaker was pushing a $1.6 billion loan guarantee for United Airlines, the nation's second-largest air carrier.

(That was this week)

"the terrorists who attacked our country on September 11th will not shut down our vital businesses or thwart our way of life."

The measure provides $5 billion in direct federal aid and $10 billion in loan guarantees for an industry that has announced tens of thousands of layoffs since the terrorist hijackings.

The measure also offers the industry federal help with rising insurance costs in the wake of the terrorist strikes, and limits airline liability in any federal lawsuits that could result from the deadly hijackings.

(That was a while ago and it's still a pile of bullshit)

a) wtf? from this pdf map seems like San Fransisco doesnt have Rail station!??! that is messed up. is it something to do with oakland being clsoe by and acting as a hub?

b) its more expensive than i thought. i had always thought (for some reason) that train travel was cheap in the us and still no one used it. but it seems farily pricey, although obviously if you do it by cost/distance then it i far cheaper than UK but in terms of reaching major urban centres it is comparable. i dont know what the coparison is like with flying. i am tempted to get one of these passes (eg 15 days, national $295 for foreigners) if/when i come over. i would much rather travel about in trains, cos trinas are awesome, period. and 3 hrs late, well, sounds justy like being at home!

xpost hahahahahah nice cut and paste tombot. so trinas get run into the ground and air transport championed. its going that way in the UK too.

yes, the oakland/emeryville station is only 7 miles from downtown SF.

b) its more expensive than i thought. i had always thought (for some reason) that train travel was cheap in the us and still no one used it. but it seems farily pricey, although obviously if you do it by cost/distance then it i far cheaper than UK but in terms of reaching major urban centres it is comparable. i dont know what the coparison is like with flying. i am tempted to get one of these passes (eg 15 days, national $295 for foreigners) if/when i come over. i would much rather travel about in trains, cos trinas are awesome, period. and 3 hrs late, well, sounds justy like being at home!

there are some great discount airfare deals right now if time is a premium, try southwest/jet blue or orbitz.com. but you sound intent on trains so that may not be up your alley.

Amtrak Cancels Acela Service
Brake Problems Discovered on Some Rail Cars
By Lexie Verdon
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 15, 2005; 8:13 AM
Amtrak cancelled all its high-speed Acela Express trains between Boston and Washington today after discovering cracks in the brake components on most coaches, officials announced on the train service's Web site...
...Acela service will not resume until the brake problem is corrected, the statement said.
On a typical day, according to Amtrak, the Acela Express makes 15 round-trips between New York and Washington and 11 between New York and Boston. That comprises 20 percent of Amtrak's service to the three cities. The trains can carry 304 passengers.

This means that every other train between DC and NY is showing up as being sold out and the only thing available is "unreserved coach" e.g. standing up.

Fucking

can we talk about the Metro-North network here too? Does the route to Yonkers, Scarborough, Poughkeepsie etc. run on the same rails as or parallel with the Amtrak (Maple Leaf etc.) i.e. right by the river?

The Empire Builder was awesome even in the dead of late March, but the Lake Shore Limited from Chicago to NYC was generally incompetent.

The shit about cancelling the Acela for Amtrak is that they lose their cash cow. The 20% of service they just had to lose is the most profitable service they have on offer. Congress isn't renewing their support package either, so it looks like it's time to file for bankruptcy and do a little reorganization. This timing couldn't be worse, I don't think.

Fucked

The current president of Amtrak was formerly the No.2 Guy on the american management team they brought in to fix up the London Tube. Ed do you have any comments?

Remember the team first worked together on kicking the new york transit system into shape.

I took the Empire Builder to Montana earlier this year, and it was pretty good! Even the food was good. Thank god I didn't have a seatmate, though - otherwise, I might not have enjoyed it as much.

Nick: The reason that Amtrak sucks is largely because unlike every other mode of transportation, we don't subsidize trains. So write a letter to your congresspeeps as well, maybe?

Best Amtrak exp was a few yrs ago when I took a sleeper from NYC to West Michigan (for half-price). It took an ungodly long time due to a breaktown outside Pittsburgh, but in my little compartment it didn't matter, scenery rolled on as I slept & read. The interior rooms of the old single-story cars were sheathed in perfectly shined stainless steel, my sink and toilet were IN MY COMPARTMENT, not shared down the hall as in newer trains, and there were weird extras like a compartment in which to leave my SHOES for the PORTER so they could be shined while I slept. Of course this service = no longer available, but how deeply cool is that?? You couldn't sit and sleep in the room at the same time since the bench seat was also the berth but it was so much more elegant than the modern ones with, like, bunk bed. Overall everything was perfectly cozy and perfectly sized for a not-terribly-big person.

The only problem was that the whole set-up begged for a romantic traveling partner and there was no one of the sort. That and the fact that my compartment had TWO built-in ashtrays, one of them especially located for SMOKING IN BED but alas, smoking no longer allowed there. I did have a smoker stewardess who took pity on me & snuck me off between cars to smoke out the open doors. Beautiful -- I felt like my life was, however temporarily, a musical montage.

I travelled on the Amtrak from Montpelier in Vermont to New York. It was very relaxing.

I mean excuse my Alex-y bolding there but what in the holy fuck?

iobviously not and i guess all im expressing is how deeply mobile culture is ingrained in the UK that i was confused when i read yr text. this is not a good thing

as for misinforming passengers, well now i am actually in the transport industry, these gaps in what the customer wants for information and what the operators will provide seemingly will never be filled. this is partly because it is impossible to satisfy the needs of every customer and i appreciate that, but such monumental failures of information provision are still so common (in the UK as well) that there must be anopther factor.

i believe that the transport industry's failure to understand the value of information to passengers - even if it is to say this train is broken down, thats why we have been sitting here for 10000000 hrs, its better than no information at all, a lot better - partly due to tghe difficulty of costing or quantifying that value to passengers*, which means it slips way way down in business cases for investment, is this other factor. i guess my dissertation was mainly based on the premise, and ive been having this debate within my organisation, that information is worth more than the paper it is written on, as it were.

I mean excuse my Alex-y bolding there but what in the holy fuck?

no kidding, and it IS outrageous -- the story from the philadelphia inquirer

that could get you a nice one-bedroom apartment in brooklyn. why waste it on commuting?

i agree -- esp. since the entire logic of doing a philly-to-NYC commute would be to SAVE money.

from the baltimore sun

philadelphia to new york - $1000, $10.6 per mile. (some weird site told me it was 97.4 miles between the two)

close, but UK still likes to rinse cash out of passengers was more than everyone else it would seem

If someone who is single who would have rather preferred NYC but chose to get a one-bedroom place in Philly instead, this makes total sense and is a very warranted "WTF!"

but I'm guessing a lot of folks chose Philly because they had a family and wanted to buy a house, which -- I'd imagine -- is much cheaper than buying a similar house in NYC.. yet they still get to live in a "city".. as opposed to, say, the burbs of NYC (all jokes about Philly and Ptsbrg being burbs of NYC, aside.)

Still, I'm sure even many of these people who took the "move to Philly/Work in NYC" plan must have eaten frozen bile upon hearing the news of the inflated Amtrak rates.

I *think* there's a fixed link between the season ticket price and the Standard Open Return price. Some long-distance season tickets can't be issued, because they would work out more expensive than an All-Line Rover ticket (which gives you unlimited travel on the entire network).

So, the non-linearity only reflects the non-linearity in ordinary ticket prices.

Philadephia to NYC: 100 miles
NYC to Philadephia: 100 miles

Daily commute: 200 miles!
Monthly commute (for 21 workdays): 4200 miles!

Average MPG, I'll just be nice and say 25 mpg. I'm being NICE! You got like NO traffic because you get up at 3:30 AM and take off from work way ahead of the rush!

4200/25 = 168 gallons of gasoline a month!

Philly gas prices in the last 24h range from $2.74 to $3.87 a gallon according to PhillyGasPrices.com. We'll go with $2.74 because I'm being NICE!

NYC gas prices in the last 24h: $2.59 - $3.59! So $2.59 if you fill up there! Just fill up in NYC, it's cheaper, and we're being NICE and pretending you actually work out in Queens where those gas stations actually are, not by 9A where it's a dollar more. NICE!

Here we go! $2.59 times 168 is $435.12! You saved nearly $600 by not using the train! Congratulations on having a very efficient vehicle and always finding the cheapest gas using gasbuddy.com.

BUT WAIT!

$200 for monthly parking because you found a great deal on Craigslist =
$635.12

Still a savings. Don't forget the cost of ownership on the vehicle, though! Lessee, the Honda Civic is a good one! Intellichoice tells me it's best in class on cost of ownership, an excellent value all around. Over 5 years, the CoO for the Civic DX (manual) is $14,018, and I took out fuel costs and state fees. That comes out to about $234 a month =

$869.12

I also forgot something else! Who wants to guess? TOLLS!!!! YAY!!!! I can't remember exactly wtf it costs from Philly to NYC but I'm gonna go with Frommer's and say about $12 there and back. That's every day, so $12 times 21... added to our total =

$1,121.12

Pay up!

A) NJ Transit goes to Philly, so it isn't like these people don't have another (cheaper) public transit option, albeit a (supposedly) longer commute and a (definitely) slightly less comfy ride.
B) For a man who sure prefers to bum rides off his friends than drive himself anywhere the past year or so, you seem to have forgotten the existance of carpooling.

pittsburgh is KINDA far to be a burb of nyc. it's near the west virginia and ohio borders!

Anybody who wants to carpool in a Honda Civic 100 miles each way can totally save themselves all the money they want. Just like Chinatown bus patrons.

xpost I think the point everyone here is making is that Amtrak should not be unsubsidized transportation in a country that pays for every other kind of transport in some kind of ludicrious way. It should not be economically more viable for me to BUY PLANE TICKETS to a destination than to take a frigging Amtrak.

And I think my point still stands that living in a Philly suburb and commuting daily to NYC for your job is ludicrious and that is a societal problem that should be addressed, not that anyone cares though cos, I mean, like, who cares if Philly is a completely rotting hole in the ground, I mean like they got the Eagles and shit right? And a $1000 train ticket!

Giving Amtrak money to maintain the railroads would be a drop in the fucking bucket as part of that $286 billion transport bill, but no, it's too much for these pieces of shit to think more than 2 years into the future on any topic.

In other news, Gas blamed for record late credit card payments and Mass Transit Ridership Rises With Gas Cost.

Fuck You, Texas Dickbags, and Fuck You, Automotive Manufacturers, and Fuck You, Congress as a Whole, because now my ride to work is more crowded with rude motherfuckers than it was at any point during the tourist season. Fuck You, etc.

Isn't Texas currently working on a high speed rail system for the Triangle?

According to the megalopolis paradigm, Pittsburgh is the eastern terminus of ChiPitts.

Nah, that's when a train pulls out of a station the same way it came in, and half the people on the train suddenly go "hang on, we're going back the way we came! Eeek, what's going on??"

(even at terminal stations. I mean, *duh*)

Although the administration has proposed phasing out Amtrak unless major changes are enacted, the House has approved an appropriation of nearly $1.2 billion for the fiscal year that began on Oct. 1, about the same level as the previous year. The Senate may take up the appropriations bill next week. The version passed in committee calls for $1.45 billion.

but I'll bet you really want to go Boston!

I swore off long Amtrak trips since I nearly froze on the arctically AC'd "Cardinal" from NY-to-Chi one June.

On my Pullman experience from NYC to MI, after I settled in and explored the train and napped a bit the ONLY thing I wanted to do was make out. I'm telling you, there's something about snug little train cabins with those big windows, the tension of privacy vs exposure, the long hours with not much else to do...oh christ.

I saw a car with sleeper bins... they were extremely tiny, claustrophobic, and pod-like. I was very grateful I had my far more comfortable, open-air, much cheaper recliner seat a brought a big pillow instead.

Then again, my train ride was only 40 hours.. cross country ones may have gotten to me after a while after days where a sleeper might have been necessary.

But that's just me.

The single cabin *I* was in looked like the tiny diagram here:
http://static.flickr.com/34/73257511_e7afaa6117_t.jpg

You've just got to make like the all the middle-aged women I see and pack like DUFFEL BAGS of food with you. If you prep right, it can be the most genteel, relaxing and educational (lots of time for reading) way to travel.

Maybe not as fun as road-tripping, though.

Classic: pissing out the door, cruising on the interstate.

I will say, the three day ride from Portland to NYC might have been a bit much, showerlessnesswise. But also I don't really like the Lakeshore line -- the Hudson part is beautiful of course but the train was crowded and loud and the conductors were unpleasant.

four nights on a train (two going, two returning) - $1150 for a roomette vs. $350 for a seat...

I'd go with the seat, but I'm pretty stingy.

Which line, and is it a weekend, and are you going alone? The seat is generally fine, but if it's a crowded line or a busy time, then you might want a sleeper, if you can afford it.

Dallas to Chicago, Chicago to New York. One leg leaves Thursday, arrives Saturday, the other leaves the following Saturday, arrives Monday, I think.

Amtrak in the 90's was a MAJOR DUDATHONG

I take the Amtrak about to work every day, San Diego to Oceanside (50 miles). They have a program where they let you ride free with a monthly Coaster (local commuter train service) Pass, otherwise it would be too expensive. I could catch the Coaster train I guess, but it runs at wierd hours and it doesn't have the regular electric outlet by each seat. It is so unbelieveably relaxing to have that 1 hour train ride at the beginning and end of each day. I can work on tracks on my computer, read a book, look out the window and check the surf (The train runs practically on the beach for a large stretch of the trip), look out and laugh at suckers driving on the freeway. Since I started train-ing it to work my mood has improved about 1000%. There is also the regular friday evening drink-beer-on-the-way-home-from-work crew which is great. I cannot reccommend Amtrak enough.

why wouldn't you fly? there's a good chance you could do so more cheaply than either of these.

seriously, fly. go to the website for say continental or american, choose the multi-city option, and plug in travel dates (sats, tues's and/or wed's will be at least marginally cheaper). unless you're going like tomorrow, it's very likely you'll find nonstop fares at or below 350. and if you are going tomorrow, i doubt it would be more than 1150.

oh wait, are you not actually going to chicago, but just passing through train-wise? dude. you could do direct dfw<->nyc for 200-250.

yeah, flying comes out about $40 cheaper than Amtrak coach. But taking a train sounds like more fun.

My sister took that same Amtrak route, and if she wasn't still tortured by its memory, she'd be here telling you that the fun you'll have taking the train from Dallas to NYC via Chicago is on par with two days and one night getting randomly slapped in the face.

Versus flying, you'll get an extra day or two of travel, a little more legroom, and an understanding why the NE corridor is the only section of Amtrak line that makes any money. Buy an airline ticket.

sous les paves, you have the right idea to life. (I just bus over a shorter distance but being able to read while doing so = all I need.)

TS: three days sitting on a train in the midwest/midatlantic vs three days in nyc

I could see taking the empire builder or the coast starlight with eyes glued to windows if you have a lot of patience and no time pressure, but the texas eagle? I don't think steve earle rides it.

Tuesday 14 March 2006 21:44 (1 year ago)

travel time doesn't change NYC time - I'm crashing on the couch of my brother's suite while he's at some toy/game/comic book/other conference.

Why would you fly if you could take the train? That's madness.

The Chicago->NYC train is no damn fun. I don't know anything about Dallas->Chicago, though. Seems like it would be all right -- is it an especially popular route?

Amtrack is most worthwhile if your job is paying for you to ride the Acela somewhere.

chicago to nyc was fine the one time i did it, and didn't take too long.

If you would like to take a gentle method of transport, I highly recommend the Amtrak.

Took a few journeys on it this summer (the longest being the stretch between San Francisco and Portland) and I'm really glad I did it. Certainly makes the trip more memorable than being cooped up in the plane.

Took a few journeys on it this summer (the longest being the stretch between San Francisco and Portland)

Last summer I went all the way from Anaheim to Vancouver and back again that way (with stops on the way, but either way with a really long stretch between LA and Portland). It is, indeed, a beautiful route, but unless the timing of the trains has improved radically, I won't do it again anytime soon. 10 hour delays aren't fun and romantic.

let me know when amtrak is up to latvia standards

Ask your congressperson to let you know. Repeatedly.

Certainly makes the trip more memorable than being cooped up in the plane.

yeah, it's a lot more memorable because it takes a lot more of your life. sf-portland is hardly the scenery you're going to get in the east.

travel time doesn't change NYC time - I'm crashing on the couch of my brother's suite while he's at some toy/game/comic book/other conference.

the difference between the cost of a sleeper car and an airline ticket is 4 nights hotel in nyc. how long are you planning to spend? i'd say a week is about right, a weekend not enough. if you are doing a week and thought seriously about going the sleeper route, i'd fly instead and maybe tack on a weekend trip to boston or dc, which would allow you to experience the wonders of amtrak.

a train trip doesn't need to be an "experience" it should just fricking work

forgot one downside - 8 hour train layover in Chicago (assuming the trains run on time)

May look more seriously into flying, I've got time to plan (second week in Feb.), even if I don't add to the trip. Maybe I can take my brother to Masa or something since I'm getting the use of a room much nicer than what I could afford.

Would like to do the Empire Builder route (Chicago to Seattle/Portland) as a trip unto itself, I think, if I could get off at the different cities for a day or two apiece.

for competitive rates

i mean obviously east to west coast on the train is insane and if you're going to do it, you would want some kind of "thing", like maybe fake card sharps in the back car, or a "traing robbery" followed by some juggling, but chicago to NYC doesn't need to be anything but frequent, fast and on time (although that's probably the limit of a train journeys that i would take)

xpost

or a "traing robbery" followed by some juggling

um i hope you weren't hurt milo??

second week in Feb.

ouch. we have a lotta museums here.

i mean obviously east to west coast on the train is insane and if you're going to do it, you would want some kind of "thing"

like a really big window

yes, that too. and white cloth napkins.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/03/would-people-av.html

well about fuckin' time

My husband & I are pondering a trip from Minneapolis/St. Paul to Portland, OR and then perhaps on to Vancouver. We'd like to take our bikes which seems to incur a nominal fee ($5-$15 dollars). Has anyone else done such a thing?

No but i did most of that AMTRAK trip in reverse just the other week (Whitefish-MSP)

How was it? Did you take a bike with you?

My kids take their bikes on the train (Seattle-Portland generally) all the time. They are handled with the rest of the luggage.

Do they still require to bikes to be awkwardly boxed?

I read on their website that it depends on the type of bike. If it's a standard bike, then there are bike racks. For recumbent & tandem & such they need to be boxed up as luggage.

W00t! A roomette just became available on the Chicago-Sacramento leg of our trip next month. Now we don't have to sit up for 50 hours straight.

Until Amtrak owns its own rails and doesn't have to be freight-line tenants, the answer is DUD. (He said, sitting stuck for an extra day in Chicago.)

^^^Was stuck an extra day in Chicago once myself! Um. Because my train killed five people and we got delayed 8 hours. So...CLASSIC?

"Until".

Did they put you up? I forget how these things work -- I've never been that delayed.

Can you get out to Hot Doug's while you're there? Because that might make the delay worth it.

(xp) Yeah, we're in a motel out in Homewood. The shuttle is going to take us back to the station at 10:30...for a train that leaves at 8 tonight. So we get to sit around all day today. My wife is not far from a very quiet meltdown.

Where is Hot Doug's? If it's downtown and within a VERY short distance of the station, I'll consider it. We ate at Lou Mitchell's on the outbound trip and it was pretty good. Not mind-bendingly good, but pretty good.

Amtrak is a Dudster of the Dudathon.

Go over to the Chicago thread and see if anyone can hang with you.

They have lockers in the station where you can keep your stuff, right? I mean, it's not as if there aren't a million things to do in downtown Chicago.

I thought this revive was Biden-related.

hot doug's is not near downtown

HI DERE, we're parked in the first-class lounge since part of our trip included a sleeper, and some drone finally rebooted the wifi router. Four and a half more hours before we board tonight's train, and then we get to finish the trip on the bus since our ride home from Memphis was available today but not tomorrow. No more long train rides for me.

hot doug's is not near downtown

I would cab it for Hot Doug's.

Also, way too late now obv. but the architectural tour boat ride is worth it if the weather's decent.

Home at last. I promise you I will pluck the eyes out of the head of the next Amtrak employee who apologizes for my inconvenience.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/11/25/95822/061/985/666177

Someone call the Pinefox.

Yeah, I figured that was going to happen at some point, there are enough noises about infrastructure already. Dovetailing with the passage of Prop 1A out here is a fine thing.

$8bn will get you about 100km of high speed rail at 186mph, nowhere else in the world defines high speed rail as 110mph or greater, generally it is 250km/h or 155mph.

Good start but more money and more ambition required.

We'll try harder, Ed

I like how it's apparently news to the author that the French have fast trains.

In a climate such as we have now where government backed bonds are in demand it would be a great opportunity to raise money cheaply.

Ed, when you in live in very large sparse square area country, call back. Luv u

Will be there in 6 weeks.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/High-Speed_Rail_Corridor_Designations.png

Suggest starting with Chicago->Detroit/Cleveland going to be a lot of out of work engineers there sometime soon.

haha, lol at Houston being left out of Texas high speed rail

should consider connecting Cleveland with either Buf or Pit so NY to CHI is feasible

I'm guessing the Bullet Train To Vegas From L.A. being talked either fell through or is a private venture in planning?

the Appalachian mountains still apparently present an insurmountable obstacle :(

http://www.danielboonetv.com/uploads/images/mingodan.jpg

God, that map is so fucked already. SF-LA-Vegas makes sense, as does the whole NE corridor, but is it seriously worth having a Tulsa-Oklahoma City line or doing the entire eastern seaboard EXCEPT Jacksonville - Orlando?

get rid of columbia, the carolinas should not have two separate lines

dude where are you seeing sf-la-vegas

having two lines there theoretically makes sense: why the hell should i have to go thru macon if i'm trying to get to florida? but when san francisco is apparently not connected to anything at all in the world, that is a lower priority item.

xp - no that's my point. I think the L.A.-Vegas thing is a private project, hence why it's not showing up on the map.

The premise behind the DOT map is basically to link sizeable metros that could be less than 4hrs apart by high speed rail (thought to be the point where high speed rail becomes attractive relative to air travel). NY-CHI would not be very competitive, it would still take 9hrs or so. A 12hr overnight service (better than today's 20hrs) would be easily achievable.

Lack of DFW<->Houston is bizarre as that would look like a very viable route.

or at least a Houston<->Austin route, which could fit in the 4 hour range.

(xpost) I'm not seeing SF-LA-Vegas, that's the problem - LA-Vegas is a HUGE traffic route and just the right distance.

Part of the issue is that Houston and El Paso are the two large cities that aren't part of the i-35 corridor.

El Paso is detached enough, culturally and in time zone, from the rest of Texas.. but Houston isn't. That said, a Houston<->NOLA line makes a lot of sense (if they can manage rail over a whole hella lotta swamp).

Well, there's a "Bay Area" connection, which is probably close enough?

I can't imagine there's much room in SF to pave new light rail over without a lot of protest. It would make sense if it went up the peninsula up to the bottom of BART near SFO... and/or near a BART station in Oakland on the east side.

IIRC the prop 1A plan has stations in SF, San Jose, Oakland, and Berkley.

The preexisting Amtrak line goes through San Jose and Oakland, with CalTrain and BART stops at either location respectively, so I assume they'd follow that route.

http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/map.htm

East-Bay is greyed out and to be decided

http://img19.picoodle.com/img/img19/3/11/25/f_railm_d10f41c.jpg

I'd do this

man i am way fuckin siked for trains everywhere

i love riding trains

gotta hookup TN and KY but otm

xpost

could have sworn i posted in this thread but i guess not - used to ride amtrak from chi to albany and vice versa all the time when i was a kid (lol divorced parents), amtrak is way fun imo and are probably better now, RIP 'smoking cars' - those things were like gas chambers :-/

I take the Amtrak to NYC every Thanksgiving Day!

i don't understand why sf is completely left off the proposed plans

schef, if you look at Ed's link, it's not.

Keep in mind the above map Ed linked is from 2001.

it's not left off ed's map either

High speed rail from the government that brought you Amtrak.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/High-Speed_Rail_Corridor_Designations.png

it isn't, gabbneb?

the west coast is disconnected for no good reason -- this is what i meant. SORRY IF I WAS UNCLEAR.

sf is actually really getting a high speed train thx to the ca ballot initiative that just passed

anyway i think there should be a national subway that goes everywhere

man i am way fuckin siked for trains everywhere

― :) Mrs Edward Cullen XD (max), Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:22 AM

it isn't, gabbneb?

"Bay Area"

2 hours sf>la woot woot!

worry abt connecting that shit when the rest of the country ever actually gets its act together

dudes cabo to vancouver would be a kind riiide

Love the Kerryism of this plan!

Hand is spot on - the report ends with bewilderment at news of fast trains in France !!!

Everyone who doesn't already live in Madison would move here if we had a high-speed train to Chicago.

kerryism?

Actually wow, if you follow the links from that report there is some crazy Kerryphilia: loads of sites called http://www.welovejohnkerry.com and the like.

Oh, my:

Graduating seniors at Emerson College yesterday were treated to that special blend of mouth-watering hunkiness and soul-stirring patriotism that only John Kerry can provide. JK, looking resplendent in formal robes and towering over everyone else on the stage (of course), delivered a call to idealism and action. None of the Emerson girls threw panties — I suppose they're too serious-minded for that, alas — but several looked as if they wanted to.

For those who were unable to attend this august occasion or catch the live webstream yesterday, we have a WeLoveJohnKerry exclusive: video! The file is a bit large (almost 60MB), so it'll take a few moments to download, but that's the price we pay for decent resolution. (I should warn you that they broadcast the audio at very low volume, but the audio track is there, I swear. Just crank your speakers up to hear that lovely baritone voice.)

Oh, and let me take this opportunity to introduce myself: I'm DreamingofKerry (DK for short). I'm a fanatical JK supporter (but then, aren't we all?), and I'm very happy to be joining Democrafty and Kerryvisionary to help bring you the latest in Kerry-squee. I chose the name DreamingofKerry because to me, it alludes to what being a Kerry fangirl is all about: daring to dream that the patriotic ideals JK talks about will carry the day, that our country will get back on the right track, that our long national nightmare will come to an end and we can once again dream of a bright future. Naturally this includes high hopes for another Kerry run in 2008, but I'm an impatient sort — I want Kerry's vision to become our national vision, and his dream to become our reality, *right now*. So I'm DreamingofKerry, and I'm very glad to have the opportunity to participate in this lovely blog.

Kerry, along with Biden (obv), has been a leader on high-speed rail, which is hardly surprising given his constituency

Currently doing my first cross-country train trip since 2004. Sun is setting over the Inland Empire.

wow, chicago union station is a planning/engineering disaster. and the employees are grim and mean like something out of a z-grade cold war spy movie. i've come in through here before, but never stuck around long enough to notice.

Everyone who doesn't already live in Madison would move here if we had a high-speed train to Chicago.

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:27 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Goddamnit.

so no progress on that?

Cancelled by incoming (and current) gov Scott Walker in 2011.

what a d

Amtrak used to be one of the favorite whipping boys of the conservative republicans until they finally realized that the only voters who gave a rat's ass about Amtrak were the ones who lived in the parts of the country that Amtrak served, and if anything, those voters just wanted better service.

on last night's crash in Philly, from the WSJ

An Amtrak train involved in a fatal crash here appears to have been traveling at more than 100 miles an hour as it entered a sharp curve where it derailed Tuesday night, killing at least six people, according to two people with knowledge of the investigation. The speed limit in that section of track drops to 50 miles per hour, according to the Federal Railroad Administration. Investigators are focusing on the possibility that excessive speed was a factor in the derailment, one of these people said. The locomotive and all seven passenger cars of the train went off the tracks at a tight curve at Frankford Junction, north of Philadelphia city center. Multiple cars overturned, severely injuring some passengers and pinning others. Six people were killed and more than 200 were injured, including eight who were in critical condition.

so, the Chinatown bus every time.

it's fortunate it wasn't worse or at a sharper curve, i think that's the same accident speed vs speed limit as the santiago de compostela train accident in spain several years back that killed a few dozen people.

excessive speed appears to almost always be the culprit... wtf is with these drivers? are they under huge pressure to make their schedules? is there some structural issue?

although that said, considering how many trains are criss-crossing this country at any given moment, the number of crashes is really not very high. you're much safe in a train than in a car (or a bus).

that said a derailment is fucking terrifying

I'm sure amtrak still has a better safety record per passenger mile than the interstate highway system over the same time period

oh, with certainty.

important:

http://www.ibtimes.com/amtraks-failure-gain-wireless-spectrum-rights-stymied-safety-technology-1924499

Train was hit by a projectile, that's why the conductor blacked out.

https://fortunedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/rail_map.jpg?quality=80

seems shameful that there's no significant ridership btw austin/dfw/san antonio n houston; also that there's no dallas-houston connection also yes, I know LOL texas

there's a dallas-houston freight connection fwiw

today I got off of my train to go to the baggage claim with like 10 other people. This lady in front of me brings her claim check and says "ok that bag is mine, but there are two more that should be here". the employees are all confused like "ma'am, did you check three bags? You only have one claim check". and she's like "....no? I brought two bags on the train with me!"

The employees are all like..."uhhh, ma'am? We don't carry your carry-on bags off of the train for you. You didn't take them off?". She's all like "No! OHHHHHHHHH DON'T YOU TELLL MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE that they're still ON the TRAiiiIIIIIIiiiiIIIIINNNN!!!?? HOw could this happen??! HOw could this trip get any worse! Call the train! Please! CALL THE TRAIN! Please tell them to stop! So I can get my bags". The train, mind you, that had just left 5 minutes ago going 65 mph down the track.

she then proceeds to find anybody wearing a uniform (Amtrak or not) saying "Please CAN YOU CALL THE TRAINNN!!!???? Tell it to stop!!!"

so classic obv

<3 Amtrak (as long as you don't need to be anywhere anytime soon)

Have a San Diego -> San Jose trip planned for the summer

i want a job where if i have to go anywhere in the continental US, i have the luxury of time to just take the train. trains are fantastic.

CAN YOU CALL THE TRAINNN!!!????

classic.

omg that woman

i imagine that after the exchange posted above, she drops her one bag and takes off running down the track after the departed train

imagining that woman as maggie smith's dowager from downton abbey

lolllllllll

love amtrak. you can get up and walk around. you can go to an expensive bar. my archipelago's airline monopoly throws everything it has against ferries so all my experience of longrange travel until my 20s involved being strapped down listening to engine roar, and my idea of trains was a romantic cartoon that came from graham greene, agatha christie, etc.. then i got on amtrak for the first time, all beaming and wow-trains, and the conductor came on the pa and probably got on every passenger's nerves but mine by saying "this train is now leaving for vancouver, kelso/longview, tacoma, seattle, belgrade, budapest, and con-sssssssssssssTANT-inople"

xpost they had to explain to her a few times why the train couldn't a) stop and 'wait for her to catch up' or b) back up and come back.

she was trying to stir up support amongst the other 2 cranky people that cared.

yeah I mean sure it takes a lot longer than if you drove or flew, but you can bring twice the baggage onboard or checked for free! much more leg room (ok, the Silver Star that runs near us is a little old and beat up, but the Piedmont, good christ, the seats were so comfy and the leg room was ridiculous!). and yeah, go to the dining car, get a drink! warm, friendly staff.

compare that to when I get on a Greyhound where the driver's breath smells like bourbon, you leave three hours late, and someone is yellin at you to "sit down, BITCH!"

some guy in the dining car once taught me pinochle

heh the guy in the seat in front of me offered me his spare room in his house (I am not taking but hey nice offer)

remember that george will or maybe it was david brooks piece about how trains were inherently unamerican because the individual passenger couldn't decide where to go

To progressives, the best thing about railroads is that people riding them are not in automobiles, which are subversive of the deference on which progressivism depends. Automobiles go hither and yon, wherever and whenever the driver desires, without timetables.

fuuuuuuuuuck driving

hither and yon

driving's the worst, spend 100% of gdp on trains

CAN YOU CALL THE TRAINNNNNN!!!!!!

http://i.imgur.com/E1VN36N.gif

here's my tribute to the long-ago Amtrak journey that brought me here today:

https://markwrite57.wordpress.com/2015/12/09/all-aboard-amtrak/

more recently, we took the Acela express NYC-DC and back last summer. it was painless if a bit pricey.

how insane would you have to be to take an Amtrak train, and how the hell are they allowed to continue operating?

Twenty three injured in a derailment near Dodge City, KS today. Last year, 8 killed and 49 seriously injured in the Philly derailment. Seems like something happening all the time with these guys.

a large number of Amtrak's recent incidents involved things it couldn't control like vehicles on the tracks, a semi-truck driving into it, large rocks falling, etc....

I've always loved Amtrak, also at least unlike a plane, when the thing derails, you have a spitting chance of surviving. I just road Amtrak last month and i love it.

though completely horrific what happened today, hopefully no casualties when all is said and done.

less scary than the Chinatown bus

I regularly use Acela for DC/NY work trips. They've had their problems of course, but I vastly prefer Amtrak to planes.

One can see why "Acela class" has become a snarling right-wing putdown for alleged elites, who live in an East Coast media/government bubble that is far removed from the concerns of honest, hard-working, salt-of-the-earth Real Americans. So sue me: it is awesome. I can start out at 8 in DC, do a longish meeting in NY, and be back home to put the kids to bed. While in transit it is comfortable and quiet and about as civilized as being home, including electrical outlets and beer.

Twenty three injured in a derailment near Dodge City, KS today. Last year, 8 killed and 49 seriously injured in the Philly derailment. Seems like something happening all the time with these guys.

lol gtfo. Passenger rail accidents are exceedingly rare. In 2013, the NTSB recorded 32,719 highway deaths, and 891 railway deaths. Of those 891, well over half (520) were deaths from pedestrians and vehicles being hit at grade-level railroad crossings. A total of 6 -- that's not a typo -- were passenger rail deaths. Another 345 were "light, heavy and commuter rail." The rest were employees.

So, at a rough reckoning, 40 times as many people are killed in highway accidents every year than in all types of rail accidents combined.

I think all such stats would be more meaningful if expressed in terms of non-deadly passenger trips vs. deadly ones. No matter the mode of transport, for every fiery well-publicized crash there are hundreds of thousands of people uneventfully arriving at their destinations.

According to the journal Research in Transportation Economics:

Cars & light trucks experience 7.28 fatalities per billion passenger miles
Rail of all types experiences 0.43 fatalities per billion passenger miles

Thanks Phil. Fuck a car tbh.

<3 trains <3

I might take the train cross-country again someday, but only with drastically revamped expectations.

1. Don't expect to arrive the day the itinerary says you will.
2. Don't expect particularly good food.
3. Don't expect comfortable sleep.

^^^ u&k

Before I got over my then-crippling fear of flying, I used to take Amtrak from the east coast to Chicago once or twice a year. WAY cheaper than flying, much more comfortable, always cool to look out the window, and just generally fun -- I've never, ever been on a flight where I thought, "Boy, this is fun!" True, sometimes it took 24 instead of 17 hours, but I wasn't on a tight schedule.

The whole process of flying is such an ordeal that I'd take a 24-hour train trip over an uncomfortable 2-hour flight anyday.

I'd pretty much adopt that attitude but I also hate being away from home very long so even if a 2 hour flight is an 8 hour travel day it's still more economical with my time than e.g. however long the train from Seattle to SF would've been when I went to SF for 48 hours this weekend. To Portland though, train now and train forever.

And honestly maybe train if I go to san francisco for longer next time.

Also trains and planes both substantially safer per passenger mile than fucking driving.

loved my San Diego to LA morning trip a couple summers ago, but usually time is money when i'm traveling.

going 80 in a 30 zone seems like a bad idea

Amtrak Washington train crash: Deaths as carriages fall on US motorway

RIP

https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2020/06/16/amtrak-is-ending-daily-service-hundreds-stations-blame-coronavirus-pandemic-railroad-says/

Thinking of you, Morbs.

http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Amtrak-Connects-Us-Fact-Sheet-for-Statement.pdf

Go ahead, click the link. Scroll to the second page of the PDF. That’s the proposal.

Sigh okay

https://i.imgur.com/CGEPasb.png

I rode the newish Borealis train to St Paul and back to Chicago this weekend, really easy and comfortable. The trains were quite full but with a little patience and finagling we were able to get four friends sitting together. Good price, minimal delays, just over 7 hours end to end eastbound. Will ride again.