UK people, how do I buy a house?

Weex, thanks for that advice, Madchen. I am on a contract at work. I might be going to proper employment, but if this is going to be an issue that prevents me from getting a mortgage, then I might bug my employers to make this happen sooner!

Also, I know I need to hassle the government bastards about getting a National Insurance number because I still don't have one, five years later.

I also kind of need to know about timescales, is this going to take months or even years? Because I don't know the kind of time that I have right now. I really don't want to have to go back to renting in the meantime, that seems like an awful waste of money.

Basically, if the company survives the next month or two I'm pretty sure I'll be made permanent. If this is an issue, I will press them on it, so I know.

I waited until we'd seen a place we really liked (the 13th flat we'd viewed, I think) before setting the wheels in motion - I think I made an offer, contacted the unfortunately-named PMS (Professional Mortgage Services - recommended by my accountant as specialists in finding products for limited company contractors [as I was then] with a low declared salary but other income from dividends and such) and enlisted the services of a solicitor (one of half a dozen recommended by the estate agent - again, this was just me being lazy and it's probably a no-no) the same day. The deposit was 10% and came from a PEP I'd started back in my single salad days.

It was a cashback mortgage with Halifax and the cashback effectively paid for my legal fees and stamp duty. I had a fairly basic survey done through impatience and tightfistedness. The whole process was still frustratingly drawn out though - we made an offer in mid-May, it was accepted but we didn't exchange contracts until early September.

It would be very different if we went through it again (I have half the income, house prices have gone up, blah, blah, blah).

I sorted the mortgage myself by comparing published deals / prices. Plus side of this: I really understood the basis on whihc I was making a decision. Minus side: it's a bore and a chore and I wasn't sure I'd covered all the bases. I left the mortgage sorting a little too late, though, because it was a chore, and the sale was held up by a week or so as a result. If I were doing it again I'd ask all my friends and get a recommendation for a mortgage broker they trusted.

Nothing too serious though: the period from having my offer accepted to completing the sale was 6 or 7 weeks, which was helped by the fact that I used the same lawyers as my vendors (after making sure they had proper separations in place obv) and no chains being involved either side.

unfortunately everything has gone rather quiet at the moment (ie the last month pretty much). our solicitors claim it is the other bloke's solicitors and, however well meaning it is meant, i think i may PUNCH OUT the next person who ask me "Hows the house coming along?" (even though it's not their fault, obv.)

kate, the bigger deposit you have, the better deal you can get, our mortgage is based on a higher multiple of our incomes because we've got a large deposit.

I was on a limited company IT contract and the way they worked out how much to lend was your weekly rate * 46 (to give annual total) and then 4 and a half times that. This was with the Woolwich late 2002 and the terms may have changed since then - they may be more cautious now.

I'm terrified of chains. (This is the only thing I've learned from watching property programmes on the telly.) Fortunately, I'm a first time buyer, so there's no chain involved.

I have, very fortunately, been offered some financial support from my mum WRT the deposit, so I might just be able to manage 10% if the exchange rate improves.

The whole thing terrifies me. I'm not even sure I've produced enough of a financial trail in the UK, as I've only been here 5 years, and never even had a credit card before, let alone a loan.

I'm officially Middle Aged and Middle Class.

Sigh.

I was on a limited company IT contract and the way they worked out how much to lend was your weekly rate * 46 (to give annual total) and then 4 and a half times that.

Bloody hell, no wonder the market's out of control! I could've bought a mansion with that kind of loan; as it was I think I borrowed 2.1 times my income based on your calculation.

Hmmm...maybe I should start a thread on remortgaging...

I've just realised this comes straight from the Scottish perspective, where you might see a house, find out that bidding closes tomorrow and need to be in a position to tell your solicitor to shift his arse pronto. I found out on the Friday afternoon that I had to have my offer in by noon on the Monday. And I was at ATP. Fun times!

I think the answer is no.

Pink, that's what I'm scared of WRT chains!

And no, you can't get a mortgage for a houseboat. I already looked into it. Which is stupid, considering that what you need the mortgage for is the mooring, rather than the boat.

It seems so extreme though - you're effectively using the equity your property has accrued as the deposit on a new mortgage, so any profit you would have made in selling the place has gone. Is that right? And borrowing against this increase in value - how well does that pan out? Better than any unsecured loan you might get from a bank? Reduced new mortgage repayments + loan-against-capital repayments = back where you started? Of course, the loan would enable us to wipe out credit card debt, get new central heating, buy robot cleaner, install radio telescope in garden, etc.

I guess remortaging makes sense if time you've lived in house equal to or less than time you intend to remain living there (and prices keep going up).

ie WE'RE FUCKED.

(independant financial advisor, kate)

you can, of course, go and talk to one, find out what the best mortgage is (for nowt) and then talk directly to the lender yourself :)

and this is why the housing market/economy/moral fibre of our once great nation is up the spout (only kidding dear ;))

I was thinking the London-Brighton commute would be bearable three days a week, but five days a week (which is what I would need to bring the flat price into the 4 times my salary range) would be pushing it.

I've got your email, cheers, Pink (thanks everyone for the great advice) - I will have a think about things (and talk to some people) and I will definitely be asking for more advice and help. Thanks!

x-post, that would be great, ___.

But the latter is unlikely to happen at all, and the rates are unlikely to be reached before the end of 2005.

The Bank of England are not in the remit of controlling house price inflation, although you can tell they want to as it is a big risk. all the same, they have to argue all rate increases around a 2 year inflation target based on HICP which has no house price element in it, thus reducing their motive.

The BoE is unlikely to move rates in a haf percent jump. And even then I am not too sure how far this will push many folk (it is only the small percentage interest component, many people fixed in at historically low rates). It is more overall consumer borrowing on top of mortgages that are a worry.

Sorry, I feel like the pub bore now. No, the growth is not sustainable, but interest rate damage will not be that serious.

Please don't worry about sounding like a pub bore, for a start, I asked the question with the specific point of finding out things like that, that I hadn't even thought about. (Weex!)

It seems as if you actually know what you're talking about, as opposed to people who sit around with no knowledge, making pronouncements about how the government/economists/Thatcherites, etc. are trying to mess us up. ;-)

Anyhow, feel free to mail me if you want to ask stuff about different areas of the city or whatever. Might not get back to you straightaway though, I'm just off to have a bad tooth pulled. Oof.

I want a pokey little flat, just for me. Maybe you should email me the details of your place! We could have the first ever all-ILX exchange of house contracts, and instead of estate agents fees, we pay to fix the server! ;-)

I think our place should be up on either of these pages by tomorrow:
Wyatt's
Avard

We're in Hollingdean, which is apparently, err, 'up-and-coming'... pretty scruffy really, but almost even on the verge of being on the edge of a nice neighbourhood.

I could get a studio flat for about £100k in Brighton, within a nice walk of the seaside. I don't see that happening in Zone 1 or even Zone 2.

Yeah, Dave B. I can when I get a spare half hour... do you want the nice story and the lies, or the shit scary truth?

Start a thread, I will vent my spleen...

London's expensive too, obv, but (after a brief look) it seems to be much the same kind of price as my area, which was a surprise to me because a couple of years ago it was significantly cheaper.

The only place I could afford to buy in London is going to be, somewhere with a postcode greater than my salary. Given the choice between the same money buying me a grotty flat in South London or a grotty flat by the seaside, I'm plumping for the seaside.

I'd rather be 20 minutes away from a pebbly beach rather than 20 minutes away from more sub-Victorian row houses thanks. That's my choice.

This is true. But, at the same time, noone else is approved by the FSA to give advice to people. Hence, you are really kind of shafted either way. Just check out recommendations.

And, even if you pay up front, they may well be on a commission.

Higher postcode number != further out of town, except in the case of the 1s.

I want to live by the seaside. I want to live somewhere where the water is not trapped in lost underground rivers. (UNless Brighton has lost rivers of its own.)

I can sympathise with wanting to live by the seaside, but I'm not the biggest Brighton fan here (see threads aplenty from the past). I miss the sea too: my flat's got lovely views over a nice big park and is bright & sunny all day long when it's sunny, but I do have to make sure I get to the sea fairly regularly.

Elephant's nasty, yes, but there are some reasonably pleasant bits of Borough and Walworth.

I also not too keen on Brighton, and it is the most expensive coastal bit you'll find (try Littlehampton, its on a fastish line).

I agree about the "Camden By The Sea" unpleasant aspect of Brighton. I was originally looking at other seaside towns, but unfortunately, none of them seemed to have as good transport links to Blackfriars Station, which is where I need to get to. (Maybe I should go to Blackfriars Station and look where else the trains go to from there.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/scottishhistory/images/renaissance/scr/inchkeith.jpg

I don't want to live on the North branch of the Thameslink line, as I have horrible childhood memories associated with that part of Herts. ;-)

Where is Sevenoaks? I like the name, but I suspect it's somewhere dreadful in Kent.

See, train information, now you've hit on a deep seam of ILx knowledge.

Your suspicion re: Sevenoaks is kind of bullseye. Though I know a nice fellow who lives there and loves it.

Not as good as Bass Rock, but very nice all the same...

Though really, the Camden On Sea aspect of Brighton is actually a plus in some ways, because it means I already know people there.

http://www.livedepartureboards.co.uk/ldb/summary.aspx?T=WAT

I think that Brighton is the obvious choice for a reason.

what else ;) weirdly the people i know in Brighton are either 22 year old ska/nu-metal lovers or 32 year old indie-gazers tho i doubt any of them actually own their flats or houses (i can ask my friend Lisa tho who i'm convinced you will have already met as she knows Welsh Emma as well)

Southend?

the viaduct rules

(Funnily enough, Ricardo, I looked at Southend, but there's no flats on the market there, nothing smaller than 3-bedroom houses! Which were cheap, but not cheap enough and I don't want a 3-bedroom house, I want a flat on the seafront!)

It's not a whole heck of a lot cheaper. Prices start dropping once you get out to Portslade and Southwick, but I don't think I'd wish that on anyone.

Good stuff that Brighton has going for it: the Downs, gigs, cinema, pubs, record shopping, restaurants, the Downs, the sea, the Dolphin Derby on the Palace Pier...

Bad stuff: the beach, house prices, tourists, cars, theme pubs, the rest of the Palace Pier

You might need another mortgage to cover the train fare.

Transport costs could be a shock if you're been spoiled by Zone 1 living.

Kemp Town is studenty as well as gay, it's ok but DON'T get a flat actually on St James' Street. It's dirty, noisy, and full of street drinkers who I have nothing against per se but wouldn't necessarily want to live on top of them.

Flats on the seaside side of Hove are nicer but generally pretty pricey unless basements are your thing.

St.Albans is a no-no due to ex-bassist living there. It's pretty and all, and I like it, but that town ain't big enough for the two of us!

Archel, I totally sympathise with you on the flat-buying front, I know a bunch of people in exactly the same position, it's really fucking hard to get a foot on the beanstalk. It's totally exacerbated by the London overspill thing, but I can't say I blame anyone moving down here. I reckon that if I was starting again at the bottom, buying with a good bunch of mates would be the way forward, even for an anti-social old curmudgeon like me. Anyhow, good luck.

(x-post)

IFAs you pay will give you a better service than IFAs you don't pay. If you think they may still have a hidden agenda, just check with them that they are entirely independent.

(Kate, how can you be working without paying NI?)

Pray?

How long is the period for - 25 years? I wouldn't be overly fearful myself if it was that long. The stock exchange will come back over time. It's more the recently maturing speight that are getting caught well short. My 2p.

Wouldn't recommend them at all, mind.

(x-post cos everyone is miles quicker than me)

___, it's a 25 year one. Maybe I should remortgage and abandon it as a bad job?

As ___ said, it's early days though, and the markets have plenty of time to recover.

I am unsure about whether I would stop putting money into the Endowment policy however, and definitely would leave what you have in it, and see what happens.

It's going to terminate at ST PAncras from spetember to 2007 at the earliest.

Please stop this infernal racket. It's putting my customers right off their strokes.

Yours,

A Ho (Mrs)'

Re Thameslink North Of Kinkers = Stinkers.

(I have been paying emergency tax for about 5 years now. OK, I haven't been working steady for all of that, but does that mean I have a BIIIG lump waiting for me, or does it expire or something?)

x-post, but still an OK overview of what you can do.

I did get some money back the very first year that I was here. But that means that I have several years worth due back! That would be worth doing, then.

But I do have to have a National Insurance number to do so, right?

I should sort all of this stuff out. I never realised there was so much money involved. I thought it was potentially in the hundreds, not in the thousands!

What is this Inland Revenue place at the bottom of Euston Tower? Is it easy enough to find? What sort of things should I take? P90s or what passes for them? (I seem to keep getting them from a temp agency I haven't used since last year, for some unknown reason. Maybe they want to give me tax back or something.)

(it's a p60!)

Did you get that nonsense email btw Kate - not sure if any of it is of the slightest interest...

Euston Tower (opposite Warren Street Station and built in a peculiar fashion so it reflects the GPO tower as you walk up TCR) and where Capital Radio used to be in the 1980's is now the Inland Revenue drop in bit. Ie The ground floor. You carnt miss it (trust me).

Not to mention the fact that I haven't been ALLOWED to have a legal address for the past year, but that's another kettle of fish and one I'm trying hard not to think about. Sigh.

x-post times many...

Yes, underscore, I got your mail, cheers! I will take it home and download it and read it at length. (I used to know a lot about US mortgages coz I worked in mortgage backed securities but UK mortgages are scary and strange.)

Thanks for the directions, Pete, I really think the best thing is to go and ask them what to do. If I can locate my bits, that is. I think I still have most of them. I recall collecting some from Ed & Suzy, so I should still have them.

In comparison, I guess they are. But US mortgages have their own "features"...

Kate, it's not stuff directly from the IR, but the blue forms are IR forms issued by your employer (likely to be P60 and P45s). If it's still just gender and birthdate, do what Pete says and get yourself down to the Revenue NOW. You should be able to get something back. Any decent Citizens Advice Bureau (or half the people on this thread) should be able to assist you with the forms if the Revenue folks won't.

Looking at my recent bank statements and my recent paystubs, I can't figure out where all the money is going. Which means I have to scale back even more. I *have* to go full time or change jobs, and fairly soon. I feel really bleak this morning.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ted.power/mk826.jpg

Why have you been out taking pictures of my flat? I live on the top floor of the flat at the front right of the picture!

Coz it looks like I'm going this now. Eep! I've got a Financial Advisor (well, I work for a financial advisor). With the deposite I've cobbled together, it looks like they're going to give me a lot of money! Hurrah!

I've found a flat I like, which is a bit out of my price range, but my Estate Agent told me I'm expected to haggle. God, I hate haggling. I just want them to tell me how much they actually expect me to pay and I pay it.

What's the proceedure for making an offer? Is there a formula you follow, as in 5% below the asking price, or something? I've compared to other properties at other agents, and most of them are about £10k less this one is at. Should I offer them the local average for the house and then bargain up? Or should I offer them what I am actually prepared to pay for it - the actual full limit of what they're prepared to lend me?

Why does it all have to be so perplexing?

(I fall in love too easily with flats, it seems to be a shortcoming of my architectural nature.)

The only potential neighbour problem is sharing the inner courtyard with fuX0rs but they're more exposed than I am.

There's a weird bit of damp in one of the room, but I've asked the agent to ask the builder to look at that. Plus this company will make sure they get a surveyor and a valuation in to look at it.

I know that the flat upstairs sold for exactly the limit on my budget, so I might offer that. Don't know. The London market moves very quickly. It's beautifully finished (apart from the damp) and has all mod cons included which makes a difference to someone like me, not to have to buy washing machine and all that.

Argh, also... is it wrong to make my mind up so quick on this house? I tend to be quite gut instinct so I force myself to think it over, and then I risk losing it. Should I look at more properties? I think I probably will anyway because I love looking at houses. I don't think I will find anything more perfectly suited to me - I loved it from the moment I saw it in the paper. And when I walked in, I thought "I can see myself living here!" which I didn't get at the other two properties I saw yesterday.

I'd be very hesitant to buy a house with damp unless I've got confirmation from an expert this isn't a leak or something.

HAGGLE! It's worth it! I mean, okay, few people are used to haggling, but think of all the money you'll save! (One of the things you have to keep in mind: you'll always need to spend more on some repairs and stuff. So if the price is just your budget, you're actually going over it. You always have to keep some extra for repairs and *stuff*.)

I am going to have to haggle, I guess. Bah. I don't want to. I just talked to the agent to find out service charges and council tax and they haven't decided any of that - obviously that will affect my budget, too. I can handle the repayments now (with overbudgeted utilities) if I take a 20 year loan, which I'm not keen on. So nicking £5k off it would make a difference.

Oooh, I feel all tingly and funny. I'm going back to look at it tonight, hopefully. (The guy will ring me back to confirm that.) I want to look at it after dark to make sure those big frosted windows aren't crazy exhibitionist or anything.

It will - we have the same situation. But it's exquisite torture.

You're not going to forget that estate agents are utter self-serving cunts, are you? That's very u+k.

I have said that I am going to put in an offer, but that I am talking to my financial advisor about how much I can afford.

I'm sorry, I can't be anything but honest with these people, I know it is a mistake.

I'd try and get that ASAP, it puts you in a much stronger position if you've got approval for a mortgage in principle.

A couple of years ago there was absolutely no point in trying to haggle, but the housing market has slowed down, and given that you've no chain, I'd definitely haggle - a bird in the hand etc.

Is that an advantage? I mean, I thought it might be - I was contemplating putting in the cheeky low offer with the addage that "this WILL complete in six weeks and I'll be in by Xmas!" (Yes, I know that's overly optimistic but not unrealistic given that the mortgage is going through a database I control. (Not sure if that's legal, but I can hurry things along.)

It might be worth reminding them of this from time to time :)

A couple of years ago there was absolutely no point in trying to haggle, but the housing market has slowed down, and given that you've no chain, I'd definitely haggle - a bird in the hand etc.

When we were buying our house (just over a year ago) being a first time buyer & having a mortgage already approved made absolutely no difference to anyone. Everyone said it would, but it didn't!

they might not appreciate it if you're trying to stay on side with them! if they do rip you off you can take them to court for beach though.

IF IT'S MY FLAT I COULD HAVE A BEACH IN THE STUDIO IF I WANT!!!

1) Saving for several months from the stupid salary they pay me here
2) My mum cracking open her trust fund (hangs head in shame)

I was just curious, as I'm so bad at saving money myself.

Dammit, why do estate agents never call you back?

I close on my house today.

"Never knowingly rung back"

Treat em mean, keep em keen.

(x-post)

When I was buying a flat the first place I found and put an offer in for, the vendor was in a chain and decided over 2 months after she'd accepted my offer that she was pulling out. But the estate agent only told me that after I'd been leaving messages for them for over 2 weeks so god knows how long they'd known

the second place I put an offer in for, I got a letter from them telling me my offer had been accepted, but then I didn't hear anything from them for over two weeks. After that letter, the first thing I heard about the flat was two and a half weeks later when the mortgage broker's valuer phoned to ask why he couldn't get in to value the flat. Turns out that the flat was never on the estate agents books but if they phoned up with potential buyers the couple let them in. The couple had then accepted an offer through their official agents, hence why they had no intention of letting my valuer in.

Well, one place I couldn't see yesterday, as it turned out the lady hadn't made up her mind to sell before they put signs up and started advertising!

I know that they are indeed handling this property, as they are handling all of the other units on the site. (There is another flat upstairs and two studios off the back of the courtyard - the site is quite deep for a mews house.)

It's just confusing as there seem to be two or three conflicting prices on the house (I have printed out the ad with the price that I want to pay, to wave it in their faces and go "Look! Look! This is what it says, this is what I will pay.")

And I want to see it at night to see what that wall of glass looks like with the light on. Oh well, I suppose there are always curtains. Though that would kind of spoil the point of having that wall of glass.

There appears to be furniture stored in at least one unit.

::bites nails::

Obv they can SAY that it's off the market and then go on and do the above, but it doesn't do any harm to let them know that you know about the scam and are looking out for it. To test it out, perhaps get a friend to call the estate agent to enquire about the property. If they're told that it's off the market, you're OK.

Once an offer has been accepted, if you can get in direct contact with the seller and even meet them, it will help. You can build trust and also avoid taking the word of the seller's estate agent and solictor as fact.

I know about this scam through bitter experience. I rumbled it just before the bidding war stage, and then put in a series of bids that I never had any intention of honouring. My final bid was outrageously over the market price, they 'accepted' it and I kept them on hold for two weeks thinking they'd won the jackpot - just long enough for the seller to get excited, maybe incur some solictors costs etc etc. Then I walked into the estate agents and told them face to face that I was pulling out because they had tried to screw me. I also explained the scam to various other couples in the estate agent's office, just so they knew what they might have to deal with, you know.... Maybe that makes me a bastard like the seller and the estate agent, but I had every intention of buying the house in an ethical way and they tried to screw me, so I don't regret it.

I think that the way you handled that situation was perfectly reasonable, given what was going on.

I hope that I impressed into them the fact that I work for a huge and powerful institution (and they better not f*ck with me). But who knows. I can only hope for the best.

I've made it perfectly clear that this is my only offer, take it or leave it. I'm not going to get into a bidding war and I'm not going to haggle - it's just yes or no.

It is a developer, not an existing owner so I'm hoping that this makes a difference, that there's no emotional attachment to the property and this is just a business transaction. (At least, that's what the estate agent last night said.)

Kate, GOOD LUCK! :-))

nath - it's not illegal here, i'm sure.

OK, I've been reading about Gazumping, which is what you describe, Dr. C. Apparently it was very common in the 80s, but not so much now. Varying opinions on it - technically it's not illegal under English Law (it is illegal under Scots law, though) but lots of codes of practise (Estate Agents' and otherwise) prohibit it.

They get around the Estate Agents' Codes by saying that the buyer got the gazzumping offer on their own, rather than through the same Agent.

was it wet when you touch it?

I've got it! Now I have to get a solicitor!!! How do I get a solicitor?

I've not got one! How do I get one? I've just emailed my advisor in a panic asking if we've got one in-house.

YAY for Kate! :-)))))))

Eeep! We do have an in-house solicitor! Fantastic! Just got their card.

http://www.andrewsonline.co.uk/images/property/londstrm/llsp0098101.jpg

Sorry, I'm totally in love with those windows.

I will still put up saris as net curtains in order to stop people from peeking in over the tops - but they generally are huge and billowy.

Gah, I'm so excited. I feel quite dizzy.

Shhhh, no one tell anyone.

But then I think about some of the ex boyfriends IDIOTS that they've let buy houses and I don't feel so bad.

I went with the cheapest, they were based in (I think) St Leaonards. Turned out the same firm was acting for the sellers. I wasn't sure about this but they assured me that entirely separate teams would be working for each party. As it turned out, it worked like a dream, and substantially accelerated the whole thing (e.g. day of exchange = day of completion). It also meant that they couldn't pull that "we're waiting for their lawyers to respond" trick which one hears about so often.

It's possible to do the lawyering bit yourself, I understand, but I didn't fancy it, or the risks.

Because I'm using the in-house lawyer, that means we (my company) get a cut of the fee - which I may or may not be eligible for a commission on. (Need to check that.) I mean - I'm going to get paid a commission on the Lender Fee! Imagine that! The bank will pay *me* for bringing them my own mortgage!

Which other thread? Sorry, can't find it!

(Damn, maybe I should stop posting this on the interweb, as I know my stalkers read this site. But then again, I don't think the exact address is on it.)

Anyway, technically it's not the kitchen, it's the sitting room since it's open plan. Is there anything about not having a toilet off an open plan living space?

I mean HONESTLY, who comes up with these rules?

Now I'm worrying if that's somethat that will stymie the surveyors or something. Bah.

x-post

I mean, there's a simple solution to the toilet germs and food preparation problem - WASH YOUR HANDS. Which I do.

http://community.channel4.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/566602047/m/2280039323

OK, it just sounded absurd and Victorian, like TWO DOORS would stop germs or the miasma or whatever it was that spreads disease.

Also, very tentative congrats to me, cos we signed and delivered (by hand, to Mitcham) the contract on Sunday. Now mostly terrified that (in decreasing order of likelihood) (i) the rest of the chain will push for a completion date so ludicriously soon we'll never get packed in time, (ii) we'll move in and find the refurb costs are 50% more than we've budgeted for, so we're stuck in a cold shell (with 'orrible wallpaper and carpets) with a young child for the winter, (iii) it will all still fall (cor, look at them double-Ls!) apart in some convoluted way that leaves us liable for everyone's deposit.

The financial penalties that can be levied for being the doofus who screws up the chain (post-exchange) are kinda terrifying. Fingers crossed.

It's a 1950s 3-BR semi-d on the other side of Upper Norwood Rec Ground; further from the Triangle, but a lovely garden. Car port, brick outhouse with huge potential, etc. I'm not exactly smitten with it but, y'know, we'll put our stamp on it and it'll be the Second Best Thing We've Ever Done...maybe.

This has dragged on for months (and it's not over yet) - saw the place in late June, put our flat on the market the same week, accepted a low-ish offer for our place in early August...now it's bloody November. In that time, our vendors saw two places they wanted fall through and there was much miscommunication and buck-passing between solicitors. The estate agents - useless throughout - only woke up to the fragility of the chain when we threatened to abandon the whole thing a couple of weeks ago (which, as agents for us and our vendors, would've cost them over six grand).

The hiatus hasn't directly cost us anything in conveyancing terms, it's just delayed Pam's return to work (ideally, freelancing from home AFTER we've moved in and undertaken weeks of refurb), which HAS cost us dearly.

Almost there.

God, chains just sound so nightmarish. Eep. I hope I never have to move again!

Wooh, welcome to the land of great big debts and having to pay for things that go wrong yourself instead of relying on a landlord! Congrats!

Buying a house in England seems so much less complicated than in Scotland. Offering *under* the asking price and getting to haggle sounds so much better than having to guess how much they *really* want for it (and how much the other people all offering at the same time are willing to pay to get it).

'Yeah, but I don't trust the agent to be working for me, and not for the seller! If they're working on a commission rate, then the more money the house goes for, the more he earns!'

This is an interesting one, covered in the book I just read 'Freakonomics'.

Say a house is for sale for £300,000 and say the estate agent is on 6% commission. The estate agent stands to make £18,000 on the deal. IF you manage to beat the owners down by £10,000, the estate agent still stands to make £17,400, and £17,400 today is much better than the uncertain prospect of £18,000 tomorrow, particularly when the market is slack. There was some research cited (for california) that tracked the spread between house sales and what Estate Agents managed to sell their own houses for. So Haggle.

Well, in the end the developer offered to sell it to me at the same price as the one upstairs - which was £1k less than what I offered, and £6k less than what the Estate Agent originally told me.

So I didn't even really need to haggle!

I'm just freaking out now, trying to pull all the money together.

The conventional view is that buying a house is one of the most stressful things you can do ... but really the need to keep working for the next 20 - 25 years tops that.

And anyway, it's all very "European" of you to say that you prefer to be a lodger, but for me, I'm sick of paying other people's mortgages, (which invariably happens if you rent) and quite frankly would rather pay my own.

Anyway, DNFTT.

I just don't have such generous parents as you, I'm afraid. Nothing wrong with generosity, of course.

is this true?

the flat next to mine was up for sale (still is afaik) and the estate agents there would try to unlock my door to show people around. thousands of pounds and they don't even know which flat they are selling.

building regulations have changed, it did used to be two doors but now only needs to be one. on the plus side you can watch your toast whilst you have a waz.

The offers over thing here in Scotland is horrible especially with the house market having exploded like it did. People were offering silly money over the asking price for things that weren't worth it. On the plus side you don't seem to get these precarious chains up here.

We were just lucky that the house we got had a seller who was moving back in with his wife so wasn't looking to buy and he was making a £25000 or so profit (having been there a year!) even if we just matched the asking price so we got it for £5000 over asking price and £5000 under valuation. Bonus.

Mind you this was after a year of much stress trying to find something. Completed in 6 weeks and the solicitor was really rub.

Not looking forward to ever doing this again

Hooray Mike Pam and Ava.

Nah, typical estate agents' fees are between 1.5 and 1.75%. Still a terrifying amount of money for something you suspect you could do yourself, quicker and better.

I just don't have such generous parents as you, I'm afraid.

With me, it was the generosity of the nuclear industry (hello, Cumbria!) that enabled me to come up with a deposit. My parents have been council/housing association tenants all their married life (aside from 18 months living with my maternal grandparents). I guess they could've spared a tenner if I'd really pushed them.

I'm very keen on the idea of lodging in central districts too - but only in my imaginary parallel life, where I'm still single and I don't have a child. (Not that it can't be done with spouse and sprog but, Christ, where would we put all Pam's sewing supplies?)

IT WILL BE MINE ALL MINE ON WEDNESDAY!!!!!

My god, I'm poor now. I've rejoined the landed gentry. Heh heh.

We didn't get the house :-(

What happened was that there was no other interest, so we said to the seller's agent "would she accept "offers-over" price + 15%" and they phoned us back and said "um, someone else just offered more than that, do you want to offer more" (er, isn't that some sort of gazumping thing?) and I said "er, we'll get back to you but let us know if it's going to a closing date" (because that's what you do if there are two interested parties) and then I didn't hear anything for a week so I called the agent back and she said "oh, she accepted the other offer, I assumed you weren't going to come back with a higher offer" - um, IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT. Aaaargh. (we would have offered more, but I had to get the house valued and get a revised mortgage agreed in principle, I couldn't just magic up an offer in case we couldn't afford it)

actually you can

you put in the offer. and go ahead with things, you can pull out at any time if you change your mind

What happened was that there was no other interest,

and they tried to put up the price??? LOL. if theres no interest its because its overpriced. the estate agent will be bulshitting you as well, remember

remember you hold the cards, not the seller. people are worried prices are going to start falling (already have in some parts of the country), plus you have a million houses you can go look at, they only have the one they can sell

There hadn't been any interest for weeks, then after we put in a testing-the-water verbal offer, another offer came in from someone else within about half an hour. The seller's accepted that one because I took my time getting back to them (but if we've noted an interest, they are supposed to keep us posted on any moves made by any other interested parties). We're knacked, basically, because we weren't being held to ransom and I assumed it would go to a closing date and offers if there were two genuinely interested parties (and we'd had it surveyed, so I think that should count as interested)

true, but if there hadnt been any interest in weeks, it suggests it was incorrectly priced (other offer notwithstanding). other thing you can do is keep tabs on what happens with this price, the other buyer may well pull out (esp with interest rates continuing to rise and banks beginning to tighten credit)

how do you think it was priced, in relation to other similar houses?

Aye, I've told them to keep me posted if it falls through, since I was prepared to offer a wee bit more if I'd had the chance. I think it was fairly reasonably priced, but there were reasons it wouldn't appeal to everyone.

Ach, plenty more houses for us to look at.

have you checked ourproperty.co.uk to see what prices on that, and other, streets have gone for, over the last year or so?

Yeah, well nethouseprices.com which is the same idea. It was a reasonable price (but we were erring on the low side of an offer since we were the only interested party), and our bank had it surveyed for mortgage purposes as well. Basically, the Scottish system of second-guessing what people actually want for their house sucks.

i dunno, no interest to me says one of 3 things

1) something wrong with it
2) overpriced
3) not enough demand in general, and if thats the case, they're ALL going to be coming down

presumably your mortgage is in place now (prolly have to begin sometime in the next 3 months?) - so you got time on your side

Sorry to hear that Ailsa. The second guessing in the Scottish system is a pain in the arse - I suspect that i most likely paid over the odds for my place. I am heartened to see from nethouseprices.com that my flat is worth roughly twice what I paid for it 5 years ago.

On a vaguely related note, I was a little perplexed to see a Mini with Foxtons livery parked outside my flat - I thought they only operated in London.

I used to think that the scottish system was so much better than the english, but I've revised that since hearing about my friend's experience. They're looking to buy a house in Linlithgow (they own a flat there, but are expecting child no.2) They put in an offer that was 15% over the asking price (I think their offer was about £235K) they found out that they were 6th out of the 10 couples that put a bid in, and then found out that someone else was unsuccessful with a bid of £275K!!!!!! Their mortgage co. had valued it at £220K.....

Aye, that's the sort of thing we're up against. We've been told we'll easily get 25%+ over the asking price for our own. It was a verbal offer of asking price plus 15% that we had knocked back for the new place. Having to throw survey costs at every house we want to put in an offer for and then not getting it anyway because we're not mad is giving me TEH FEAR.

oh wait, you already own a place? why dont you sell that and go rent for a while? that way you dont get held up at either end, and its cheaper to rent than buy anyway, and prices arent exactly going up?

and dont the surveys come after the offer has been accepted (or is that different there than here?)

That's what we're going to do, but I *really* wanted this other house. Obviously, renting will be cheaper than paying for the new place, but I don't think we'll ever get more for this place than we're going to get right now, so we're taking our money and running, and unless we get a place we want at a price we can afford, we're as well treading water in a rental place with our profit in the bank.

xpost - you can offer subject to survey, but a mortgage lender will still require a survey which is free if you take their mortgage but if you don't get the house you don't get the mortgage means you have to give them money.

renting with profit in bank at top of market isnt exactly treading water:D

if this is the most you're going to get for your place, then surely it follows that the same is going to be true of other places

have you got your mortgage in place though? because the flipside to any stagnation or fall is rates continuing to rise and therefore getting more expensive to borrow money, and banks are starting to lessen the amount of money theyre lending out as well. if youve got one in place that should be valid for a while at least

Yeah, we have. We're not interested in over-borrowing anyway, we're still looking well within what we can afford, none of the "6x salaries for the rest of all time" nonsense here.

makes sense! probably beginning to see the end of the silly multiples now, which means less credit and money stoking things up

We're house/flat hunting. I think my head is going to explode. Urgh. We're basically looking for sth to buy and then rent it out. ARGH. I am new to this and don't know anything about it. :-(

Now is perhaps not the best time to be looking at buy-to-let.

let-to-sell is good though.

Basically, rent a house then sell it to someone else and leg it.

It's all good.

Belgium is probably a better place to do it than britain.

Well, my PIL will be helping quite a lot. In the long run it seems a good idea. We're self-employed so when we retire we'll get fuckall. So we need to see into something that will bring in money or at least have something of our own. I'm keen to get a flat or something. Buy and then rent out: only need to pay a couple of hundred euros/month maximum. But that's of course when we find good renters. *sigh*

Mortgage rates (?) are pretty good here. They've gone up a bit but it's still very reasonable.

Mark, fuck, why didn't I think of that? Do you have a place to hide?

Aren't you living rent-free right now as well?

Yep, rent free. This is of course a BIG PLUS but on the other hand we realize this can't go on forever and ever. (Although my mom told me ages ago she wants to give the house. Which is of course great! *If* that happens.)

Don't you have private pension schemes you can pay into in Belgium? If you're not sure you can recoup all your costs via rent, wouldn't you be better investing the money elsewhere?

we already do that.but we want sth extra.

as long as you're not looking to flip it within five years i'd imagine a house is a very good investment.

We're not looking for something to sell again in a few years, just something as a "backup" (if things go awry and we need to move out of the house) or to rent out (which would mean a good income later on, when it's paid off),... If we don't go overboard we can more or less let the rent pay off the loan.
It's giving me mad headaches, WHAT DO I NEED TO LOOK OUT FOR? I mean, this is not a house we will live in, but something that is easy to let (?). So the rules are different, I guess...