Illinois Senate Race Just Got Real Interesting

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Best news I've read all day.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:56 (twenty-one years ago)

choice quote: "Respondent became very upset with me, and told me it was not a 'turn-on' for me to cry."

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I got one of those automatic CBS news phone polls yesterday about this, and one of the questions was, which one of the following statements represents your feelings about this situation? And it was like, "I used to have a favorable opinion of Jack Ryan, and I still do," and "I used to have a favorable opinion of Jack Ryan, but I now have an unfavorable opinion of him." And of course, one of the options was "I used to have an unfavorable opinion of Jack Ryan, but I now have a favorable opinion of him." I was really tempted to pick that one.

St. Nicholas (Nick A.), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I have an unfavorable opinion of Jeri Ryan now.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

It's going to be real over in about three hours, reportedly.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

awesome! is Ryan resigning?

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:02 (twenty-one years ago)

smoking gun's got the heavily censored documents.

Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Ryan isn't an incumbent. There's supposed to be a press conference this evening, though that doesn't necessarily mean he's dropping out. Either way, it's going to be great having this guy in the Senate...

http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/010104/election-voices6.jpg

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

if he was a Democrat they wouldn't be censored.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:05 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost - gabbneb who said Ryan was an incumbent?

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

If he was a democrat he wouldn't have taken his own wife to a sex club!

Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, he would've just cheated with an intern.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Obama sounds too good to be true, I hope things work out for him in the future!

teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Obama sounds like Osama, too, but I still think he's rad. If I still lived there, I'd volunteer.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I was trying to be a little more subtle there, Mr. HLeno.

Huk-El (Horace Mann), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

yesterday or the day before on B96 the djs had people call in to comment. one woman said that she was a member of the BDSM community & she was glad that he was sexually expressive . . .
xpost

kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:10 (twenty-one years ago)

"too good to be true", via Drudge.

No one, h, i guess i misread "resigning"

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess I meant resigning from candidacy. Don't know why I wrote that.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

gabbneb for a sec with your "too good to be true" link I was anticipating it was about Illinois GOP trying Jeri for perjury. Too bad it just had to be some shitty George Will piece.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha, hstencil, ya beat me to it. But this was all over the 'net about three months ago. Which has me wondering why the Illinois GOP is acting all 'shocked' about it now. I think they can't stand him and would be happy to exchange him for someone more 'moderate'.

Jack Ryan is a seriously creepy and vain dude. But it's not like he was going to win anyway.

I don't understand why a member of 'the BDSM community' would want to praise a man who dragged his unwilling wife to a 'sex club'. It's disturbing that people don't get what is really wrong with this. But it's not like we didn't already know that he was a vain, paleo-Catholic ass.

Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

do you think his wife was unwilling? it's quite possible that she was & looking back on it has either decided that she wasn't or is using it against him to gain custody or something.

kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Somewhere Tom Clancy is crying.

Leeefuse 73 (Leee), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Asked about the accusations in the unsealed depositions, Mr. Obama replied: "I don't think it's appropriate for me to comment on that. Those are issues of personal morality. The issues I'm focused on are public morality."

I like this guy, and hope that when I'm there, he's going to be the Senator.

I have an unfavorable opinion of Jeri Ryan now.

How come??

Leeefuse 73 (Leee), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

The thing is - Jeri Ryan's mother complained to the papers that Jack Ryan had been too 'controlling' - telling her what to wear, how to dress, telling her to exercise more, etc. And when confronted with this, Jack Ryan agreed that he had been too 'controlling'. It's not to hard to guess what was really going on there, given his politics.

The point, though, is not whether this story is true or not. It is that people are taking this story at face value and saying, 'right on, dude!' If the story is true, it's -not- okay.

Anyway, read it and puke .

Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

safe sane and CONSENTUAL

teeny (teeny), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Leeee - it was a bad joke based on Jeri-perving, nevermind.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:27 (twenty-one years ago)

what kinda guy expects to be elected in America with an orange/black color scheme anyway? What a freakin' weirdo.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:27 (twenty-one years ago)

But it's not like he was going to win anyway.

Yup. Even before this came out, he was trailing Obama by quite a bit.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:30 (twenty-one years ago)

When you consider that Obama's kicking ass running for a formerly Republican seat, it makes you appreciate how incredibly bad Carol was.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

There was a funny bit in the New Yorker profile of Obama wherein Illinois Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky went to visit GWB while wearing an OBAMA button on her lapel. As soon as Bush saw it, he jumped back. She had to reassure him it didn't say OSAMA. Apparently, Bush had never heard of Obama, though, and was still a little skeptical.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

http://cjonline.com/images/091198/day.will.jpg
http://eminem.adamdude.com/images/osama_binshady.jpg

quoteboy (gabbneb), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 20:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Choicer quote: "We did go to one avant-garde nightclub in Paris..."

nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:18 (twenty-one years ago)

"...which was more than either one of us felt comfortable with. We're just not feeling DAT Politics, sorry."

nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

"crying isn't a turn on". Well then Jack obviously isn't seriously into his perversion!

kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

He'll pick up the swing voters.

Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

holy shit ILX pun-groan of the year

nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Now Ryan is quoted in the newspaper as saying that if that is the only complaint someone had in eight years of marriage, then that person is luckier than most. Lucky to be married to a control freak who has no regard for his wife's desires? Also, one Chicago columnist, in response to the 'avant-garde nightclub' remark, asked, 'what is this, the 1920s?'

Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 24 June 2004 02:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Shouldn't Jeri have figured out his MO after the first "long-weekend" "romantic getaway"? Jesus. "Honest, honey, this won't be like New York." "No, really, this is not going to Paris all over again." "Gotcha bitch!"

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Thursday, 24 June 2004 02:20 (twenty-one years ago)

i feel kind of bad for ryan, this isn't the kind of stuff that should bring down a campaign. i can't even accuse him of hypocrisy (since he indulges in moralizing typical of a conservative politician) because these are unconfirmed accusations by an ex-wife and nothing more.

obama was probably going to win anyway. he's a great guy, it seems; it'll be nice to have two really good senators from illinois (durbin has turned out to be even better than i had hoped).

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 24 June 2004 04:56 (twenty-one years ago)


Choicer quote: "We did go to one avant-garde nightclub in Paris..."

-- nabiscothingy (--...) (webmail), June 23rd, 2004 5:18 PM. (later) (link)

that was hilarious.

i love the connotation "avant-garde" is understood to have for tribune readers.... "avant-garde" = leather whips and open orifices, i guess.

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 24 June 2004 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see how anyone could possibly have any sympathy for Ryan. Sure, it's unconfirmed, but if it was such an untruth he could have sued her during the proceedings or tried to bring charges for perjury or any number of things besides covering it up. Covering it up, as learned so many years ago with Nixon, always looks bad - and sometimes is worse than the initial offense (tho not in this case).

Also sex stuff - rightly or wrongly, true or not - brings down campaigns all the time. Gary Hart, Gary Condit, Bill Clinton, etc. Weirdly it seems that sex scandals don't affect Republicans (maybe Bob Packwood is the exception?) - I wonder why that is. Henry Hyde still is in office, unfortunately.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 05:04 (twenty-one years ago)

i know sex stuff brings down campaigns often, i think it's dumb.

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 24 June 2004 05:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it's dumb too, generally, but depends on the circumstances. In the Ryan case, it's not dumb. In cases involving two consenting adults, it's dumb.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 05:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I ran this by my wife, who generally thinks that the American attitude towards political sex scandals is really screwed, and she thinks this one is different -- the problem isn't swinging, it's tricking your spouse into going to swing clubs against their will on several occasions. That gets into a level of deception and contempt for women that much more directly speaks to the question of public morality than, say, fucking an intern.

Cf. a female friend of mine who was dragged to a sex club without being told in advance: "any creep who confuses my healthy appetite for sex with an interest in doing it in front of complete strangers is bad enough -- when he doesn't even have the guts or interest to ask me first, he's beneath contempt."

Colin Meeder (Mert), Thursday, 24 June 2004 05:15 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah but keep in mind we don't know that these things happened at all.

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 24 June 2004 05:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Colin OTM. Am - read my bit about cover ups.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

also, what sank Gary Condit wasn't boinking Chandra Levy - what sank him was lying about it.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 05:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Clinton and Hart, too. Lying about boinking doesn't sink Republicans.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 05:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Stence, that's because if you think of the Republicans on offer, nobody'd ever admit to boinkery: 'I shagged Spiro Agnew' doesn't exactly fly off the page.

According to Hollywood lore one Nancy Davis spent significant time being the town bike of Beverly Hills before her marriage.

Michael Dukakis' campaign had some serious dirty laundry on the opposition but unlike their Republican counterparts felt that it was perhaps not-of-the-issue to mention the opponent's mistress.

suzy (suzy), Thursday, 24 June 2004 07:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Would anyone buy "I SHAGGED SPIRO AGNEW" t-shirts?

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

what kind of music do avante garde clubs play????????

People love Gravity and Ebullition! (ex machina), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Merzbow - the early S&M-oriented stuff.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Do europeans like Merzbow?

People love Gravity and Ebullition! (ex machina), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't feel bad for Ryan at all. What's bad is that he insisted that there was nothing embarrassing in the records. He knew what was there and that it might come out, and now that it has, he's complaining about how bad it is for his son. He doesn't take any responsibility for putting his son in that situation.

Anyway, he admitted that he had been too controlling over his wife.

Here is an op-ed that's typical of what irritates me.

To understand why, you have to ask whether there is actually an original sin here--whether anything contained in the divorce papers is really so objectionable. And the answer is no. What is scandalous about the fact that three or four times Ryan cajoled his wife into going to racy clubs? They were married; maybe he thought this would inject spark into their sex life. Or maybe he had a fantasy about public sex and wanted to try it with the woman he loved. That is weird, but is it really so terrible? Is it even morally wrong in any serious way?

As the inimitable Dan Savage, author of the sex column "Savage Love," has pointed out time and again, lovers will always have different conceptions of what is sexually exciting and what is sexually strange. An admirable partner is one who, in Savage's words, is "good, giving, and game"--someone who is open-minded, but knows when to give a hard no and respects and recognizes the same from the other. Even if these allegations are true, Ryan was at worst guilty of being a bit of a bully, and that's condemnable. But what American politician isn't a bit of a bully? It's certainly not front-page news.

No, it's certainly not front-page news that a conservative politician treats women like property.

Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Do europeans like Merzbow?

the cool ones do.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't feel comfortable with Meyerhold's theories of theatrical biomechanics, either, but I grew to develop quite a taste for them. My wife is a dyed-in-the-wool Stanislavskian but who the fuck cares what she thinks.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

No, it's certainly not front-page news that a conservative politician treats women like property.

You have to give the conservatives credit for trying to push Ted Kennedy, Jesse Jackson, Bill Clinton, etc. off the front pages from time to time.

dan carville weiner, Thursday, 24 June 2004 13:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Would anyone buy "I SHAGGED SPIRO AGNEW" t-shirts?

I dunno. Seems rather avant-garde.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 24 June 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

kerry, these are just allegations! there was no independent confirmation. people say all kinds of shit in divorce proceedings. i'm not saying ryan is a-ok by me, but i don't think we should take these accusations as fact.

also suzy what is up with your constant "amazing" gossip about various celebrities past and present? i don't intend any offense, but why should we accept or care about this fourth or fifthhand stuff? or have you planted spies in all the posh hotels?

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:22 (twenty-one years ago)

again, if the allegations were untruthful, there were any number of ways that Ryan could have challenged them in court (during the divorce proceedings, slander civil suit, etc.), and he didn't. He just sealed them, almost as if he is/was ashamed not of the acts but that they could be made public.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

innocent until proven guilty man

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think that the Ryans were out of line in wanting to protect their son, even if that was ultimately an excuse for covering up these allegations.

jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Amateurist, I think I know that. You're really big on lecturing people, but not so good at understanding what the fuck people are saying.

Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

"innocent until proven guilty man" applies to Jeri, too. That's why Jack couldn't sue her!

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)

except she's not a man, but you get my drift.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry, you wrote: No, it's certainly not front-page news that a conservative politician treats women like property.

I'm saying, we can't argue that because there are only allegations regarding his behavior toward his wife.

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree that sometimes it's not clear from my posts what I'm responding to, but I don't think I'm especially guilty of misunderstanding your points.

I just think any complaints about Ryan should be limited to the cover-up aspect, if indeed that's what people think has happened--any judgements based on the content of the files alone seems unjustified to me.

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

instead of some stranger screwing his wife, Jack Ryan screwed himself.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I was responding to the argument in the New Republic, which responded to the alleged behavior with a 'so what, it's no big deal if he did bully his wife'?

Kerry (dymaxia), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:38 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, i understand. i still don't even think it's an argument worth getting into, and it's silly that the new republic even bothered.

to change the subject slightly, in the tribune today there was a page 1 story about obama's response, or rather, his non-response, to the ryan scandal. some ways down in the article the reporter wrote "obama's tactic seems to be to appear to take the high ground." er, is he not, in fact, taking the high ground?

amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

remember what kind of publication the Trib is, am.

hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm saying, we can't argue that because there are only allegations regarding his behavior toward his wife.

Allegations that neither he nor anyone else has denied, and that he has tacitly admitted, at least in general terms.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

legal speak hurt brain

bnw (bnw), Thursday, 24 June 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

He's out, apparently

Kerry (dymaxia), Friday, 25 June 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm almost with you, Amateurist, except that every one of the quoted responses in that story seemed to run, you know: "Aww, shucks, well, I didn't mean it to happen like that." Which is in itself sort of funny -- it's almost as if he's bursting with some perfectly reasonable explanation he just couldn't bring himself to spit out (to us or to her).

If only they'd been married just a few years later: he could have satisfied all his perversities at home with a remote control and the Borg uniform.

nabiscothingy, Friday, 25 June 2004 17:30 (twenty-one years ago)

what kind of publication is the trib, hstencil? i mean, what kind of publication were you implying that it is? (i have plenty of problems with the tribune but i'm not sure which of their faults you were intending to highlight.)

amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 25 June 2004 18:14 (twenty-one years ago)

The Tribune has been a bastion of loony right-wing Republicans since before you and I were born. Remember Col. McCormack? Remeber Dewey Defeats Truman? Me neither, I wasn't alive yet.

hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 25 June 2004 18:15 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think their news articles are infested with much looniness, right wing or otherwise. and their editorial page is pretty much centrist (although the columnists on the recto run the gamut), maybe a little conservative.

on second thought i understand why they couldn't have said "obama is taking the high ground"--it sounds partisan, like an editorial comment. so they chose "obama wants to be seen as taking the high ground," which is probably true, although it has the unfortunate effect of seeming to imply that obama is acting from cynicism, which i don't think he is. but i understand the way it was phrased, in hindsight.

amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 25 June 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

this is why writing news is so hard, though i think that kind of clumsiness would be less likely to find its way into the NYT, for example.

amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 25 June 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

(sighs) Amateurist, in answer to your question, in this case my gossip comes from:

Nancy Reagan: my late grandparents led an exemplary Jazz Age lifestyle. My grandfather went to Hollywood after high school and while working as an extra, shared a flat with another extra called Marion Morrison. My grandmother was propositioned by Clark Gable. Her cousin married a Mulholland. They were told this by people who had worked with 'Mommy', okay? BTW they were also hardcore '60s Democrat fundraisers.

Bushmistress: daughter of Republican judge from MN was working as intern in the Bush 1 White House. Eyewitness, and close friend and colleague of my best friend from school, who is on sabbatical right now from DC power job and is married to a possible future Democrat President. That may seem hyperbolic, but the details I'm sparing you would probably bear this out - think the next FDR right down to the limp.

Now, I don't have a problem with people who have inside information they've come by quite honestly, and I expect to be accorded that treatment myself. Especially with regard to the second item, the people who told me knew I was working as a journalist and still spoke freely even at the height of DC litigeousness in the mid-'90s. These are stories that have actually passed my bullshit detector.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 25 June 2004 18:42 (twenty-one years ago)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=683&ncid=716&e=5&u=/ap/20040625/ap_on_el_se/senate_scandal

He's quitting the race.

Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 25 June 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

suzy's amazing gossip, in both cases, happens to correspond to widely-repeated allegations that are rarely challenged

gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 25 June 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Now, I don't have a problem with people who have inside information they've come by quite honestly, and I expect to be accorded that treatment myself. Especially with regard to the second item, the people who told me knew I was working as a journalist and still spoke freely even at the height of DC litigeousness in the mid-'90s. These are stories that have actually passed my bullshit detector.

well, i just wish you would reveal these sources when you tell the stories. it often seems as if you expect us to take them on faith owing to your fabulous life in proximity to the rich and famous. that is probably a mis-impression, so i'm glad you cleared it up.

amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, considering I find the vast majority of ILXors to be fairly face-value in a very positive way, I expect a level of trust and acceptance after posting here for x years - I guess taking my info on faith is something I'd actually like. As Nick will happily confirm, I have a near-photographic memory and he's called my brain The Rolodex in the past. I'm certainly not the only person to tell pretty airtight salacious tales on here, anyway. And mein Gott they do not come from 'downstairs', as it were. My gran would be livid with you for even suggesting this.

One of the problems of being me is that sometimes 'connections' in amount and in tone are this simultaneous embarrassment (both meanings) because there's this tiny Machiavellian part of my brain that says I haven't done nearly enough with them. They range from the happenstance and random to family and friend-related. I'm also wary because my grandparents' showbiz-and-politics lifestyle did not really take into account the developmental needs of my dad, who wasn't unloved by any means but became a problem they threw money at. He's a bit of a groupie and got into 'hospitality' (bars etc) because he was that needy, so I've got a 'there but...' thing about him - and he's irresponsible because he was always allowed to be. I never want to be like that, it gives me the voms.

suzy (suzy), Friday, 25 June 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

what kind of music do avante garde clubs play????????

Momus to thread.

Layna Andersen (Layna Andersen), Friday, 25 June 2004 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...
Wow. Anybody have any spare copies of Obama's book lying around? Preferably in hardcover?

http://search.ebay.com/obama-father_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8

http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-0408060052aug06,1,2287995.story?coll=chi-leisuretempo-hed


The buzz around Obama's book

By Charles Leroux
Tribune senior writer
Published August 6, 2004

"I'm 33 now; I work as a lawyer active in the social and political life of Chicago, a town that's accustomed to its racial wounds and prides itself on a certain lack of sentiment. If I've been able to fight off cynicism, I nevertheless like to think of myself as wise to the world, careful not to expect too much." -- From the introduction to "Dreams From My Father, a Story of Race and Inheritance" -- by Barack Obama, published in 1995.

- - -

`I suppose I should be the expert on this, but I don't remember all the details," said Henry Ferris, now an editor at William Morrow publishers but thinking back to when he worked at Times Books more than a decade ago.

"I guess I had a writing sample and an outline of the story," he said. "I do remember signing him and the pleasure of working with him. I remember thinking right away that he was someone who could straddle the white world and the African-American world. And I was floored by his writing."

Ferris had spotted brilliance in a thirtysomething lawyer working then at the Chicago firm Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. The young man had been the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. Nonetheless, Obama was mostly -- and, in literary circles, entirely -- unknown.

After it hit bookstores in 1995, the book did well but was no blockbuster. Two years later, it was out of print. Until now.

Three Rivers Press, a subsidiary of Crown Books, has republished "Dreams" in paperback. It will be on sale Tuesday.

As this is being written, Obama's memoir is No. 14 (based on presales) on the amazon.com top 50 list, four behind "My Life" by Bill Clinton.

It is No. 9 on the barnsandnoble.com biographies list. The book -- and Obama -- come from a two-year love story between a white woman from Kansas and a black man from Kenya, who met as students at the University of Hawaii.

"We have all seen too much," he wrote, "to take my parents' brief union . . . at face value. As a result, when some people who don't know me well, black or white, discover my background (and it is usually a discovery, for I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites), I see the split-second adjustments they have to make, the searching of my eyes for some telltale sign."

For 403 pages (in the original hardcover edition), Obama too, doesn't take himself at face value but searches for signs, for clues to what his life as an American of mixed race means. The search ranges from Kansas to Hawaii to Africa. It begins, though, on a morning in New York. Obama, a political science major at Columbia University, was cooking breakfast when he got a call from Nairobi, from Aunt Jane, his father's sister, a woman he had never met. She was calling to say that his long-estranged father was dead.

She said: "He is killed in a car accident . . . Please call your uncle in Boston and tell him . . . I will try to call again."

Obama wrote: "That was all. The line cut off, and I sat down on the couch, smelling eggs burn in the kitchen, staring at cracks in the plaster, trying to measure my loss."

A review in The Washington Post said, "Fluidly, calmly, insightfully, Obama guides us straight to the intersection of the most serious questions of identity, class and race."

Writer Scott Turow, in the new edition, found it "Beautifully crafted . . . moving and candid."

Marian Wright Edelman, president of the Children's Defense Fund, said, "Perceptive and wise, this book will tell you something about yourself whether you are black or white."

"Dreams From My Father" might never have happened if Jane Dystel, back in 1990, hadn't read about Obama's appointment at the Law Review. The New York literary agent called him immediately with a book proposal.

`A brilliant writer'

"When I met him," Dystel said, "I sensed that he could be a very, very important person in this country. He has such charisma, such straightforwardness and intelligence. And he turned out to be a brilliant writer. What a pleasure!

"I think I embarrassed him, but I said that if, in my lifetime, there was a black president of the United States, it would be him."

There is a scene in the book set in a barber shop called Smitty's on the edge of Hyde Park in which Obama gets a hint about what a black person's success in politics can mean to the black community. The customers are talking warmly about Harold Washington.

Obama wrote: "That's how black people talked about Chicago's mayor, with a familiarity and affection normally reserved for a relative. His picture was everywhere: on the walls of shoe repair shops and beauty parlors; still glued to the lampposts from the last campaign; even in the windows of the Korean dry cleaners and Arab grocery stores, displayed prominently, like some protective totem."

Dystel sold the book to Simon & Schuster, who, later, decided against publishing it. She said she doesn't know why. She then offered it to Times Books, where it came into Ferris' hands.

"I'm very proud to represent him," Dystel said of her client who is now Illinois' Democratic senatorial candidate and a sudden nationwide phenomenon. "I'm so excited for him and for all of us."

"I read the book in March, just after he won the Illinois Democratic primary by such a wide margin, (53 percent in a seven-candidate race)" said Rachel Klayman, senior editor at Crown Books, which inherited the rights to the book.

"As an editor, it struck me that a lot of people who write professionally don't write as well as he does. We decided the primary victory presented a good opportunity to take a wonderful book and find a new readership for it."

Klayman said her company has printed 50,000 copies, and she's certain that they'll be printing more.

After Obama gave the keynote address (which he wrote) to the Democratic National Convention earlier this month, copies of the original hardcover "Dreams" began to pop up for sale on eBay and other Internet sites. As this is written, copies are going for as much as $315.

At a campaign stop, Obama told The Associated Press that the new edition is coming out "not a moment too soon. I don't want people spending that much for my book."

Prices not declining

But the prices for the rare original do not seem to be declining as the publication of a new edition nears.

It seems that the people bidding up the value of "Dreams" see it as something wrought by a man for whom they have the highest of expectations.

Written well before the Bureau of the Census thought to ask people if they wished to identify themselves as multiracial, Obama spoke in his book of the future in which we now live. He did it personally, as a reaction to people looking into his eyes, wondering who, at heart, he was. He did it in a rhetoric that foreshadowed that of his keynote speech.

"Privately they guess at my troubled heart, I suppose -- the mixed blood, the divided soul, the ghostly image of the tragic mulatto trapped between two worlds. And if I were to explain that, no, the tragedy is not mine, or at least not mine alone, it is yours, sons and daughters of Plymouth Rock and Ellis Island, it is yours, children of Africa, it is the tragedy of both my wife's six-year-old cousin and his white first grade classmates, so that you need not guess at what troubles me, it's on the nightly news for all to see, and that if we could acknowledge at least that much then the tragic cycle begins to break down . . . "

Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune

Monetizing Eyeballs (diamond), Saturday, 7 August 2004 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm not used to being so impressed by a politician... i'm not quite sure how to react.

||amateur!st|| (amateurist), Saturday, 7 August 2004 05:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh, it's true.

Anyway, I thought this thread was revived because the Republicans finally selected an opponent for Obama:

ALAN KEYES

(i.e., the only African-American politician my racist uncle in Peoria will make an exception for)

jaymc, Saturday, 7 August 2004 13:53 (twenty-one years ago)

did the GOP select keyes or are they just possibly, grudgingly accepting his offer to run?

||amateur!st|| (amateurist), Saturday, 7 August 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

No, the GOP selected Keyes. They met earlier in the week and brainstormed possible candidates, and Keyes' name came up. In fact, I think he's grudgingly accepted their offer.

jaymc, Saturday, 7 August 2004 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Keyes' nomination is an Obama-nation
*ducks to avoid rotten tomatoes*

Maria D. (Maria D.), Saturday, 7 August 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

So I admit I'm not that familiar with Keyes's agenda, except that I know he's adamantly pro-life. But I just heard him on public radio this morning, and I don't know if these kinds of rhetorical doozies are par for the course for him, but within five minutes he equated pro-choice advocates to slaveholders and the crisis in the Illinois Republican Party to the crisis of 9/11!

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

kinda surprised the national GOP would let Illinois completely cede the "carpetbagger" issue. Now they have no major artillery against Hillary's next Senate run/possible Presidential run.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, he was chosen because he's so crazy, he'd be the least embarrassing loser. When Hillary ran in NY, Keyes (a resident of Maryland) called her carpetbag-campaigning the 'death of federalism.' (xpost)

gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, Keyes addressed the carpetbagger issue by saying that for Hillary, it was a calculated move, motivated entirely by her self-interest, whereas he was sought by a party in crisis.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:48 (twenty-one years ago)

crisis my ass, they just don't wanna sacrifice any of their own.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't necessarily see how it would hurt to have a younger rising-star type Illinois Republican lose to Obama; if there was someone who hadn't yet made a name for himsef, the party could charge that it wasn't really his fault -- voters just hadn't taken the time to get to know him, what with the short campaign and everything (unusual circumstances, etc. etc.) And it would at least give such a person greater visibility for future runs. But maybe the problem is that such a person just doesn't exist.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, Keyes addressed the carpetbagger issue by saying that for Hillary, it was a calculated move, motivated entirely by her self-interest, whereas he was sought by a party in crisis.

Hmm, that's not what Denny Hastert says

gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 9 August 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

hstencil is exactly right. I don't think the Illinois GOP really gives a rat's ass about winning that senate seat anyway. All they care about is money. I think they can't stand the conservatives.

Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 9 August 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

you mean the mainstream GOP in illinois is pretty centrist...? i guess that's true, but then you always have ponces like henry hyde.

|||| (amateurist), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

you can call Henry Hyde all sorts of things but "ponce" doesn't really seem to apply.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd gladly listen to anyone rattle off a list of epithets to use for henry hyde, so shoot.

|||| (amateurist), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd rather use an epthet that doesn't generally mean either "pimp" or "male homosexual."

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:22 (twenty-one years ago)

epithet, even.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe i was talking about the town in puerto rico? didja ever think about that?

anyhow, alternative epithets for henry hyde:

asshole
windbag
blowhard
bigot
crypto-fascist
hypocrite

etc.

ok back to the illinois senate race!

|||| (amateurist), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Crypto-fascist! He's so tyrannical about his codebusting algorithms.

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

crypto-fascist is such a non-starter.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:30 (twenty-one years ago)

oy. i'm sorry i even posted anything about henry hyde.

in all honesty, i just meant ponce in a very general "henry hyde is bad" way. i think most of us can agree that henry hyde is not a particular admirable politican.

i feel like i'm walking on eggshells with you, hstencil.

|||| (amateurist), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

i always leave off the "y" when i'm trying to type "particularly" and put it on when i just mean to type "particular." it's a disease.

|||| (amateurist), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Hypocritical, money-grubbing lackey whore to unpatriotic special interest poo-heads is what I usually call Hyde.

Michael White (Hereward), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I just usually call him Tubby.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

all that's probably a better name for Denny Hastert.

hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

jowls o'houlihan works too

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

hastert = 'as seen masturbating in the back of sears'

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/graphics/9811.hyde.JPG

or "chinless wonder"?

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

'third dude from the left in the missile bunker beneath the planet of the apes'

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

or 'as seen masturbating in walgreens'

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 9 August 2004 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

"lags"

gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

haha was that article written by a space alien just visiting earth for a few minutes? "the race is heating up"!!

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 02:35 (twenty-one years ago)

did some etymological research* and discovered that a lot of people use "ponce" as a sort of general insult ("a lot of people" = ally, felicity, and some british folk, oh and jon williiams):

http://ilx.p3r.net/searchresults.php?board=1&q=ponce&mode=messages

* = used search function on ILX

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Alan Keyes dove into a moshpit during a Rage Against The Machine show during the 2000 election. For quite awhile afterward, opponent Gary Bauer chastised Keyes for associating with the decadent rock group "The Machine Rages On." True story!
http://dir.salon.com/politics2000/feature/2000/01/27/debate/index.html

mike a, Tuesday, 10 August 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Ummmmm....Al@n Keye$ is moving near me. Like, a mile away. God knows why.

Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:44 (twenty-one years ago)

In National Review world, Jonah Goldberg has (a relative sort of) ire:

The trends at work are complex and numerous. The cult of celebrity allows famous but unqualified candidates to drop into politics in ways that, say, scholars or economists cannot. Loopy campaign-finance rules encourage the super-rich to buy their offices, and weakened political parties are only too happy to serve as closing agents for the sale. Worse, consumer culture has infected civic culture. The push to make voting so convenient you can do it with a remote control exemplifies a growing tendency among voters to regard their "choices" as more important than their obligations. Indeed, for some reason, lots of people think it's imperative that criminals vote. Put your ear to the ground and you'll hear the bulldozer coming for the Electoral College.

Taken to its logical extreme, these trends would produce a nationalized political system in which voters in California, New York, and a few other states would have undue power to select presidents, senators, and congressmen.

Keyes understands all of this and admits that, as a matter of principle, carpetbagging is a bad idea because it violates the small-r republican principle that representatives should be products of the communities they represent. (Hillary Clinton, typically, derided such arguments as "dirty attacks" on her character.) In fact, Keyes wants to repeal the 17th Amendment, which empowers voters rather than state legislatures to elect senators.

Keyes also says in his defense that he was asked to run by the party in the state he hopes to represent — unlike Hillary, who foisted herself upon New Yorkers. Fair enough. But doesn't such institutional desperation illustrate how much worse things have gotten in just four years?

Keyes wants to repeal the 17th Amendment? THERE'S a hot-button issue for you.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

so the Democratic Party in NY didn't want Hillary to run? I'm not buying that.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Alan Keyes goes crowd surfing at Michael Moore event (from 2000)

http://www.detnews.com/pix/2000/01/26/nati2.jpg

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Sooooo....should I t.p. Keye$ house?

Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

egg it!

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:47 (twenty-one years ago)

If you egg his house, he's just going to equate it to 9/11 and equate you to a slaveholder.

na (Nick A.), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:48 (twenty-one years ago)

The good news: He's got a really nice bathroom. "The tub is big, it's really big," said Genus.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

The thing is, I live in an overwhelmingly Democrat area. I don't think anyone wants him there. It's in Jesse Jackson Jr.'s district. It's odd that he's moving there, because someone's always trying to foist these black right-wingers on people around there, they think they can undermine the Democratic base that way.

x-post to jaymc : My neighborhood is okay, but that neighborhood STINKS! It's where 'the strip' used to be. Whose idea was this, really?

Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

The bad news: A year ago, Janet Buchner, 47, was murdered in the building next door.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

(That's from the Sun-Times article, btw)

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

He's Catholic, too, but I don't think he'll be going to the local parish, because they're a bunch of hippies and commies.

Kerry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Taken to its logical extreme, these trends would produce a nationalized political system in which voters in California, New York, and a few other states would have undue power to select presidents, senators, and congressmen.

(Does this make sense to anyone else? Like apart from the "omg omg people who actually live where people live will have electoral power equal to that of people who never even meet other people" part: how exactly does ease-of-voting, or even the tear-up of the electoral college, give a person in California any more congressman-electing power than anyone else?)

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

(it reminds me of the we-can't-let-palestinians-vote-because-there's-more-of-them-and-oh-no-they-might-elect-someone-not-favorable-to-our-interests line i heard in hebrew school)

|a|m|t|r|s|t| (amateurist), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I get that part, w/r/t presidential elections (and the dig about "criminals" -- in prison or post-prison?), but the senators and congressmen line doesn't appear to make any sense. Particular the congressmen part, since that's already a proportional allotment. Is the implication that at the extreme extreme we would have some sort of nationalized Euro-style parliamentary system (in which there was no such thing as state representation)?

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

that doesn't make sense to me, either, since the House of Representatives is already based on proportional allotment, ie there already is, in effect, a "nationalized political system in which voters in California, New York, and a few other states have undue power to select congressmen." When you throw the electoral college in there, yes small states matter, but the big states still have the votes so in a sense they "have undue power to select presidents," too. That is, if you're a small-state simp.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, hold up: are we trying to make the National Review make sense? Sorry.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I was about to say, please think of the source.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess I at least used to give them credit for understanding the American legislative system.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:39 (twenty-one years ago)

haha "logical extreme," = "here i present you with my strawman"

g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Their skill lies in making it seem like they do to people who are already inclined to think the way they do. Which is unfortunate (and admittedly is a skill not limited to one end of the political spectrum).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 11 August 2004 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...
i almost feel bad for alan keyes.

amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 18:46 (twenty-one years ago)

He's going to win on a landslide of sympathy votes.

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

"he seems like such a nice man"

(that would have to be like one of those landslides that ends up destorying an entire shantytown)

amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't want to even think about what that would be like.

kelsey (kelstarry), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

He'll win on a landslide of ironic hipster votes.
"He's just so crazy, he's awesome. Like, imagine having a CRAZY senator, it would be awesome!"

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 30 August 2004 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

since when do ironic hipsters vote?

amateur!!st, Monday, 30 August 2004 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Voting is kitschy.

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 30 August 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude, have you forgotten already that Jesse Ventura was governer of Minnesota???

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 30 August 2004 19:53 (twenty-one years ago)

wowowowow:

Keyes: Cheney's Gay Daughter Is a Sinner
1 hour, 9 minutes ago


NEW YORK - Illinois Republican Senate candidate Alan Keyes labeled homosexuality "selfish hedonism" and said Vice President Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter is a sinner.

The former talk show host who has made two unsuccessful runs for the White House made the comments Monday night in an interview with Sirius OutQ, a satellite radio station that provides programming aimed at gays and lesbians.

After saying homosexuality is "selfish hedonism," Keyes was asked if that made Mary Cheney "a selfish hedonist."

"Of course she is," Keyes replied. "That goes by definition."

Liz Cheney, Mary's sister, refused to comment Wednesday during an interview on CNN.

"I guess I'm surprised, frankly, that you would even repeat the quote, and I'm not going to dignify it with a comment," she told the interviewer.

The Log Cabin Republicans, a gay and lesbian organization, denounced Keyes' remark.

"In a political career defined by failures, this is a new low for Alan Keyes," executive director Patrick Guerriero said in a statement Wednesday. "Attacking politician's children is beyond the pale, even for an extremist like Alan Keyes."

In the days before the Republican National Convention, Dick Cheney spoke at some length about the fact that Mary is a lesbian and his view of gay relationships. His tacit support for states' rights on the issue of same-sex marriage and less-than-ringing endorsement of President Bush's push for a constitutional amendment to ban gay unions drew criticism from several conservative groups.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

One of the most fascinating (and possibly even likeable) things about Keyes is that, given something like the "even Mary Cheney" line, he will honestly barrel consistently right ahead with it, rather than skip sideways with some kind of "well I don't think we need to make this discussion about the private lives of any particular individuals blah blah."

I'm still worried about the giant reversal of states' rights positions on this issue, as it's a massive hypocrisy on both sides. It makes very little difference now (people know what the issue is, and it has nothing to do with federalism), but I do expect that there will come a point, howevermany decades in the future, when many states do recognize gay marriages, and the push of the left will be to extend that right on the federal level -- and Democrats will be stuck with a long history of slightly cop-outty rhetoric on how this is a state issue.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Tell me the truth; the Republicans keep Keyes around as an example of how black people are inferior, right?

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

you're thinking of trent lott

cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Right, sorry.

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

dammit, where has all the altrustic hedonism gone?

Lt. Kingfish Del Pickles (Kingfish), Monday, 6 September 2004 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)

By the way, it's still completely dark at Keyes' place.

Kerry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

is that some kind of sick minstrel joke?

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 13:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, his downstairs neighbor has an Obama sign on her door.

Kerry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 7 September 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

i wish that my queer life was filled with the selfish hedonism that alan keyes thinks it is, i mean when i signed up for the whole sex with men, matt damon will be my husban shtick i was promised drugs and orgies and all of the cock i want, i mean why hasnt the lifestyle delivered.

anthony, Tuesday, 7 September 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

today's fun:

Obama Says Voters, God Should Judge Him

Wed Sep 8, 6:36 PM ET

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - Democrat Barack Obama, responding to Republican Alan Keyes (news - web sites)' claim that Jesus would not vote for Obama in the U.S. Senate race, said Wednesday he will let God judge whether he is a good Christian and Illinois voters judge whether he would make a good senator.

"I don't concern myself too much with Mr. Keyes' judgment on either matter," Obama said.

Keyes has said Obama's support of abortion rights means Jesus could not vote for him. He singled out Obama's opposition to a state Senate bill that supporters said would have protected any fetuses that survived an attempted abortion; critics said the bill was a political stunt that could have restricted access to all abortions...

Lt. Kingfish Del Pickles (Kingfish), Thursday, 9 September 2004 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...
So: Alan Keyes' 19-year-old daughter Maya has a blog.

In it, she writes about working for her father's campaign, and about how she's (like her dad) vehemently opposed to abortion.

She also writes about gay marriage and how much she misses her girlfriend (pictured here and (yowza) here)

Yes, that's right: Alan Keyes' daughter is a lesbian. (And yes, it was Keyes who publicly dissed Mary Cheney recently.)

More info here.

jaymc, Monday, 27 September 2004 06:36 (twenty-one years ago)

wow, black gay republicans do exist

Symplistic (shmuel), Monday, 27 September 2004 07:43 (twenty-one years ago)

She's an interesting voter. She's not voting for Dubya because of his stance on gay marriage, but she's not voting for Kerry because she can't bear to let anyone who's pro-choice get elected. She's leaning toward Nader.

jaymc, Monday, 27 September 2004 13:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Womens is dumb, no matter what their sexual preference.

Jimmy Mod, Los Sexx Yanqui (ModJ), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:38 (twenty-one years ago)

she cannot vote for someone who is pro-choice except she might vote for nader, who is pro-choice, reasoning that he has no chance of winning?

RJG (RJG), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I have to assume she's not a demographic that either party is campaigning to.

After reading her blog for two minutes, I have to say I kind of hate this woman. Some people's stupidity is just stupidity, but sometimes it's so extreme that it seems dangerous. This woman seems stupid enough to be convinced to engage in almost any of bad, bandwagoning, lemming-like behavior. She's a danger to herself and others, and should be institutionalized.

Ain't That Peculiar (kenan), Monday, 27 September 2004 13:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Come on - she's only 19!

Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

So do we give further credit to Obama for not using the fact that Keyes' daughter is gay to attack him for the Mary Cheney comments? I mean, he doesn't really NEED to use it at this point, but still, it's just more love to Obama at this point for not stooping to that level.

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude, you haven't read many teenagers blogs have you?

Free the Bee (ex machina), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost obv

Free the Bee (ex machina), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Re Obama:

I'm not sure how well-known this all is at this point. I found it because that NYT Magazine article on blogging reminded me to check out Daily Kos (who I've never actually read before), and he was reporting on it. But I think it only entered the blogosphere last night.

On the other hand, it's not like she's hiding it. She posts on the "Alan Keyes for Senate" Yahoo group, and the link to her blog (along with some choice quotes about homosexuality) are in her sig. She wears rainbow paraphernalia at rallies and parades. You have to wonder if she expected that it would go public eventually.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

After reading her blog for two minutes, I have to say I kind of hate this woman.

She's so cute, though!!

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I only just realized that she's 19. I take it all back. And I also think 21 should now be the legal voting age.

Ain't That Peculiar (kenan), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd hit it....

Free the Bee (ex machina), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Mmm... gimme some crazy right-wing lesbian pussy! Yeah, that'd be fun for about zero minutes.

Ain't That Peculiar (kenan), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, I have great sympathy for her, since she was raised in a right-wing home.

Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

She's not so much crazy right-wing; she's crazy anarchist.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

(I am currently in hysterics)

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Which actually makes a lot of sense for the gay daughter of a virulently conservative politician -- she and her dad can both rail against government excess and regulatory practices, while she can also rail against the federal marriage amendment. I'm not sure how she squares her anarchist beliefs with her pro-life stance, though.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)


Ha ha - maybe she is the genius who persuaded Keyes to run. Maybe she is a mole!

Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

She's B. Obama's close, personal friend.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Also her anti-abortion stance is probably some vegan "seamless web" type of rationalization.

Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 27 September 2004 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmm, unless there's a bug, it appears she has just removed the last five months of her blog...

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

“Since when did angels have receptionists?”

The Illinois Senate Race is just the gift that keeps on giving. From Six-of-Nine crying because she doesn't want to fuck in public to this. Keep it coming, Land O' Lincoln.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahahaha she put her blog on LOCKDOWN!

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I love when people who by all rights should be bleeding heart liberals veer to libertarianism!

Free the Bee (ex machina), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm reading some of the stuff that's still up there, like really OLD stuff, and this made me chuckle:

Wednesday, July 4, 2001

Ahhh it's early! Making me wake up at 6 during summer vacation is evil. I had a conversation this morning with my dad that went something like this:

Dad: If you had to give a speech in Philadelphia on the Fourth of July, what would you say?
Me: I don't know. I don't do speeches.
Dad: This isn't about speeches. This is about ideas. What ideas would you talk about?
Me: I don't know. I don't do ideas either.
Dad: Of course you do! You have a lot of ideas.
Me: Not at 6 in the morning.
Dad: Oh, come on! Sure you do! If you had to give a speech on Independece Day, considering the times we live in, what would you say?
Me: The time we live in is six in the morning. I'd tell people to go back to sleep.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 September 2004 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

You know, there's probably never a dull moment in your life when your father is Alan Keyes.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

They need a reality show, STAT.

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG THEY SHOULD GO ON THE AMAZING RACE!

n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that I'm going to call all of my family at six o'clock tomorrow morning to see what kind of speech they'd give in Philadelphia on the Fourth of July, considering the times that we live in.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

As an anarchist, of course, I'm not a fan of the state
in its current condition at all. I think individuals
should be completely free to form their own
communities and associations, without repressive
heirarchical institutions such as the state and
capitalism interfering with egalitarian society.

I, for one, think police and firefighters and EMTs are nothing but a nuisance. I think people should be free to shit in the street and kill each other for money.

Ain't That Peculiar (kenan), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I wa once 19, too, but I swaer I was never a complete loony.

Ain't That Peculiar (kenan), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

obama must have lots of time to practice his 2012 presidential campaign stump speeches these days, what with keyes driving his head increasingly further up his ass with each passing hour.

amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 16:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I wa once 19, too, but I swaer I was never a complete loony.

Oh, give it a rest. Or at least cut down to 3 cups a day.

Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Ditka 100%
Keyes 0%

Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry OTM. I am in a mood this morning.

Ain't That Peculiar (kenan), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:46 (twenty-one years ago)

i actually have switched to the "keyes is pathological" camp now that i know that he was speaking those words about mary cheney even as he had an out lesbian daughter. i'm not even confident that he registers the hypocrisy.

amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

he's a wtf politician!

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not even sure "hypocrisy" is a strong enough word.

Ain't That Peculiar (kenan), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

gotta use "wtf"!

s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you're right.

Ain't That Peculiar (kenan), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

i loved it that his short lived msnbc political talk show was called "Alan Keyes is Making Sense". ha!

Emilymv (Emilymv), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I am totally floored by this whole thing. Why is he running again?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

My 19-year-old self would have spent a LOT of time making fun of this girl as she seems to be the black gay female version of this guy I went to high school with whom I spent a lot of time making fun of but had to endure because people I liked liked him.

Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Monday, 27 September 2004 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean really why, not Jack Ryan is a perv and no one else want to face Obama but good lord is he weird. . . I mean this is just like a Twilight Zone episode.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I am so flabbergasted I can't even complete sentences haha

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I missed the nuance here -- she's not a capitalist.

without repressive heirarchical institutions such as the state and capitalism

OMG it's 1860 and she's an angry exploited immigrant factory worker! Who would have guessed?!

She should probably read a book that was written in the last 100 years.

Ain't That Peculiar (kenan), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Angry lesbian exploited black pro-choice anarchist factory worker, you mean.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, that.

Ain't That Peculiar (kenan), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

pro-life, you mean.

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:10 (twenty-one years ago)

That is what I meant. I get lost in my labels.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:11 (twenty-one years ago)

As does she, obv.

Ain't That Peculiar (kenan), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Angry lesbian exploited black pro-life anarchist factory worker who likes to sleep past six o'clock, you mean.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 27 September 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

my mom heard a radio interview w/keyes in which the interviewer kept pressing him on a question and keyes just started yelling "asked and answered! asked and answered!" until the interviewer gave up.

amateur!!st, Monday, 27 September 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

three weeks pass...
Keyes says incest awaits kids of gays

October 17, 2004

BY CHERYL V. JACKSON Staff Reporter

U.S. Senate candidate Alan Keyes told a rally Saturday that incest was "inevitable" for children raised by gay couples because the children might not know both biological parents.

"If we do not know who the mother is, who the father is, without knowing all the brothers and sisters, incest becomes inevitable," Keyes told the Marquette Park rally held to oppose same-sex marriages.

"Whether they mean it or not, that is what will happen. If you are masked from your knowing your biological parents, you are in danger of encountering brothers and sisters you have no knowledge of."

Across a road in the park, about 40 gay-rights proponents jeered. One said the frequently controversial Keyes, a Republican running against Democratic state Sen. Barack Obama, was trying to stir up voters.

"He's saying that as an incendiary remark to ignite [and] upset moderates and the mainstream," said Blake Wilkinson, a member of the Chicago Anti-Bashing Network, which staged a counter-demonstration with Equal Marriage NOW! and the black gay group Church of the Open Door. "I was raised to believe you grow up and marry the person you love."

The "United We Stand -- Defending Marriage" rally, staged by the groups Illinois Family Institute and Concerned Women for America, featured a procession of speakers, including religious leaders from various cultures. Among the approximately 150 people present were families huddling to keep warm. The event is part of a 14-city Illinois tour to push for a state constitutional amendment denying recognition and benefits to gay civil unions, moves other states have made or are considering.

About 20 police officers were on hand at the park, which in the 1960s saw opponents of equal housing rights hurl rocks and jeers at Martin Luther King Jr. There was no violence Saturday.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Wasn't there a rational human that the Republicans could have run here?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

What's Obama's lead now? Like 50 points or something, right?

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha I love that this is basically an argument against ADOPTION. So adoption is bad. Abortion is bad. Birth control is bad. How does this guy imagine that we are gonna possibly be able to control a population explosion? Execution? Genocide?

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

"Obama leads Keyes by more than 40 percentage points according to virtually every poll." -- Daily Herald, 10/16/04

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Keyes was on CCN's morning show today makin' with the rhetoric about abortion being a "holocaust of black children." I suspect that he would be soundly trounced in this election even if voting privileges were extended to the innocent unborn.

briania (briania), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha I love that this is basically an argument against ADOPTION.

I know, wtf? I wouldn't be surprised if Keyes doesn't alienate some of the few people luny enough to vote for him in the first place with this statement.

Leon Czolgosz in NYC (Nicole), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, I thought I was just being hyperbolic with my 50 points comment, but I wasn't that far off!

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Wasn't there a rational human that the Republicans could have run here?

Are you kidding me? This is the funniest thing to happen in Illinois politics in a long time. It's humiliating for the right-wing.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:32 (twenty-one years ago)

In a way it's sort of a pity that Obama doesn't have a more substantive opponent to run against, it'd be really nice to see him distinguish himself more on a debate or give-and-take front. But I'll take a walkover given this year and these times, frankly.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:34 (twenty-one years ago)

For those of you who live in Illinois, they are debating Thursday on ABC tv, 7-8:30 PM.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"Are you kidding me? This is the funniest thing to happen in Illinois politics in a long time. It's humiliating for the right-wing."

Haha I think it's fantastic too! I just don't understand what the Republican party was thinking!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"For those of you who live in Illinois, they are debating Thursday on ABC tv, 7-8:30 PM."

I can only imagine what that's gonna be like.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)


Well, the right wing in Illinois IS nutty. Perhaps the moderates wanted to assist them in showcasing their nuttiness.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)


IOW, Obama would have beaten any of them, it may as well be a total fruitcake from outside the state who gets humiliated.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)

There has to be some Republican conspiracy shit going on here re: Keyes' nomination, like they realized they couldn't win with a new candidate that late in the race against Obama so they nominated Keyes as some kind of racist ploy to discredit black politicians, because they couldn't be that dumb to nominate Keyes as a serious candidate, could they? Could they? They couldn't, though, right? Right?

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:42 (twenty-one years ago)


Well, there are two factions in the Illinois GOP, and they don't like each other much. I think outside right-wing elements and grassroots right-wingers within the state were the ones pushing Keyes - those are the racists who think they have to run a black candidate against another black candidate. My understanding is that the committee was roughly half conservatives and half moderates, and there was one person in the middle who was more on the conservative side who cast the deciding vote.

The whole thing is still a little weird, though - because no one else wanted to run against Obama, none of the other primary nominees even, and Keyes was the only serious suggestion.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh yeah, except the people who wanted Ditka, another joke.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:51 (twenty-one years ago)


Oh and NA, one thing the moderates are not is racist - this is the party of Everett Dirksen and all of that.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I wasn't really being serious.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, okay.

Personally, Ditka would have been even more unbearable, because Keyes is such a pathetic clown, whereas I don't think I could deal with months of football fan arrogance and all of the people who would have voted for him just because he's "Da Coach".

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

My facetiousness may have been unclear, I was trying to come up with an over-the-top conspiracy theory to rationalize the Republicans making such a terrible choice for their replacement nominee, but I admittedly know little about the nitty-gritty of Illinois politics.

n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Keyes has always been this crazy, although his rhetoric definitely seems to have gotten loonier, judging at least by the news stories I see (as someone living outside Illinois).

It's worth remembering that he's considered a major national political figure in the Republican party. He was the Reagan administration's point man, as ambassador to the UN, arguing against sanctions on South Africa; he was the only other Republican candidate invited to debate alongside Bush and McCain in 2000; in short, this guy is right in the fucking MAINSTREAM of conservative Republican politics. They probably thought he was just the guy for this race.

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, but the REAL 'conspiracy theory' question is : why did the state GOP moderate gatekeepers allow it? The conservatives don't control the state party.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

He's also an unelectable figure. His contribution to politics isn't electoral in the least; he simply uses the electoral system as a platform to speak. A hilarious media-heavy race against Obama is somewhat perfect for him: it's an extra few months of pulpit without needing to worry much about results.

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Bowing to those of you who actually live there and pay attention -- isn't the Republican parti in IL basically a wreck right now after the Ryan scandal stuff? Maybe it was just too disorganized to mount any kind of concerted effort to build a viable candidacy, and outside conservatives (who CERTAINLY run the nationwide party) saw it as a chance to kind of take over the state party? I don't know, but I can certainly imagine the national party slavering to get their conservative agenda on the table in such a populous state, if the party there does indeed lean toward moderation.

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, indeed, and I don't think the moderates are about to let that happen. It's probably best for them to sit this one out while they figure out what they're going to do.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

ha ha, yeah, it seems that maybe a rabid Alan Keyes wasn't really the man for the job, now was he?

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

FYI

and...

Illinois Leader is the conservative rag in Illinois - it's pretty interesting stuff.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 18:52 (twenty-one years ago)

That second piece repeats some of the fallacies that blow my mind about the conservative agenda on a national level -- particularly that the Bush administration was elected with a strong conservative mandate, and has bowed to (and should reject) moderate interests. It's as if the author, and those who also trumpet the same line, have no sense of how Bush was elected. I mean, please, Republicans, go ahead and get WAY more conservative -- fine by me. Seems to be working great for Keyes...

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)


It certainly will NEVER work in Illinois, not after years of centrist politics. Even the conservative congressmen are vulnerable now.

Maybe if Illinois is subjected to a massive terrorist attack or something...I just can't see the entire population turning into reactionaries.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 19:15 (twenty-one years ago)


Here's some good gossip about things on the Dem side. Illinois politics are fascinating, with all of these factions plotting against each other.

k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Just reminding y'all that the Obama / Whatshisbutt debate is tonight on local ABC affiliates in Illinois. Should be entertaining.

k3rry (dymaxia), Thursday, 21 October 2004 20:53 (twenty-one years ago)

See http://www.lwvil.org for details.

k3rry (dymaxia), Thursday, 21 October 2004 20:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I just watched the last part of the debate, and Alan Keys is a joke. Barrack should be elected just because tonight he was able to stand up there and thoughtfully debate with such a wacko. Several times I would have just said, "Are you fucking crazy?"

Jeff-PTTL (Jeff), Thursday, 21 October 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh my God!

See what I mean?

k3rry (dymaxia), Friday, 22 October 2004 20:06 (twenty-one years ago)

State party chairwoman Judy Baar Topinka has said she supports Keyes, but she won't say if she will vote for him.

Ouch.

Sympatico (shmuel), Friday, 22 October 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)


She supports him.....in his quest to make an ass of himself.

I love how these GOPers are, like, wink, wink, wink.

k3rry (dymaxia), Friday, 22 October 2004 20:17 (twenty-one years ago)

the whole "oh this doesn't mean anything, he's sending out his own separate mailers" line = least convincing pollitical spin ever

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 22 October 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

except he probably is! it's his own idea!! it's more federalist !

mark s (mark s), Friday, 22 October 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Illinois state motto: "State sovereignty, national union"

k3rry (dymaxia), Friday, 22 October 2004 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely it'd be more republican rather than federalist.

Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 22 October 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh my god. I swear to god, the Libertarian senate candidate's name is Jerry Kohn. Bizarre.

k3rry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Is he running against Beorge Gush?

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I listened to the beginning of last night's debate (maybe the first 15 minutes or so) while washing the dishes, but Keyes didn't say anything too oddball in that time. I don't think I'd ever heard him speak before, his voice sounded different from what I expected. What struck me is in that admittedly brief amount of time, they only discussed national and international issues, no state-level issues.

n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

you missed the part where he proved--by SCIENCE (or by some dessicated form of logic he must have picked up at harvard)--that adoption causes incest

the moderator was quite aggressive, and kind of cornered obama on the one issue where he's been hedging a bit (gay marriage)--i doubt he would have done so if obama stood the remotest chance of losing the election

otherwise this was what you'd expect--keyes is a really unappealing character, obama is quite impressive

Amateurist (Travis Blue), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Obama has my sympathy for having to debate Keyes.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 17:04 (twenty-one years ago)

keyes is such a windbag. he pulls out all this "it's logical, see you have point A, and then point B" shit but it's only the trappings of logic, the rhetoric of logic, there is little actually convincing logic behind it. even worse, he draws these triangles and squares in the air with his fingers when he talks this way, as if to suggest, "see, look, it's like geometry." i really hope he just fucking disappears from illinois after he's pounded in this election, despite his promise to the contrary.

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 19:14 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean for fuck's sake this freshman-level sophistry really doesn't belong in politics. i feel bad for obama just for having gotten sucked into it. i'm surprised he didn't just respond with "i don't really want to get into that" to more of keye's comments.

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 27 October 2004 19:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I probably shouldn't say this, but Keyes' voice sounds like the stereotypical "dorky white guy" voice that all the comedians on Def Comedy Jam used to do.

n/a (Nick A.), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 19:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I almost said something to that effect when you said his voice didn't sound like you thought it would.

Tony Gwynn to thread.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 27 October 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Obama
1,001,049
82%

Keyes
190,051
16%

Kohn
15,740
1%

Franzen
13,607
1%

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 01:59 (twenty-one years ago)

My god, it's a slaughter.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 02:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Well duh.

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)


Heard on radio that Judy Baar Topinka thanked Keyes for his 'visit' to Illinois. Meow. Meanwhile, Keyes said he is going to stay and 'clean up' the Illinois GOP.

k3rry (dymaxia), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, go Obama!

robots in love (robotsinlove), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Well I suppose we can console ourselves that America is not yet crazy enough to elect this guy.

Keyes Blames Media, GOP for Loss in Ill.

37 minutes ago

By NICOLE ZIEGLER DIZON, Associated Press Writer

CHICAGO - Alan Keyes (news - web sites) blamed the media and fellow Republicans on Thursday for his lopsided loss to Democrat Barack Obama in the U.S. Senate race in Illinois.

Keyes also said he did not congratulate Obama after the race was called, a tradition among politicians, because doing so would have been a "false gesture" because he believes Obama's views on issues like abortion are wicked.

"I'm supposed to make a call that represents the congratulations toward the triumph of that which I believe ultimately stands for and will stand for a culture evil enough to destroy the very soul and heart of my country," Keyes said. "I can't do this, and I will not make a false gesture."

The former diplomat and two-time presidential candidate, who lost to Obama by 43 percentage points Tuesday, gave his first post-election interview Thursday to a Christian talk show host.

Keyes said that despite the loss, he thought he did a good job spreading his message of moral values in the short time he had to campaign. Republicans drafted Keyes in August after primary winner Jack Ryan dropped out amid a scandal over sex club allegations in his divorce files. Keyes is from Maryland and had never lived in Illinois.

He also said he was disappointed in what he called the number of "Republicans in name only" in Illinois. An Associated Press exit poll showed that four in 10 Republicans voted for Obama, a liberal state senator from Chicago.

"I had counted on the fact that Republicans would come back home on Election Day rather than vote a socialist into office who stands against everything they profess to believe as Republicans," Keyes said.

Keyes noted that 1.3 million people voted for him.

But Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs pointed out that 70 percent of the vote went to Obama, more than 3.4 million votes.

"The people of Illinois rendered a very clear decision on Tuesday by handing Alan Keyes the greatest election defeat in Illinois Senate history. Barack Obama's attention is focused on the important work he now must do for all the people of Illinois."

Keyes said a major difficulty in his campaign was overcoming the "stranglehold" the media had on trying to define the issues of importance in political campaigns.

"I refused to accept their authority, and I still do," Keyes said.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 5 November 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I like how the last statement can be read as a sudden switch saying that he does accept their authority.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 5 November 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...
aw, maya got disowned!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20005-2005Feb12.html

Now Maya Keyes -- liberal, lesbian and a little lost -- finds herself out on her own. She says her parents -- conservative commentator and perennial candidate Alan Keyes and his wife, Jocelyn -- threw her out of their house, refused to pay her college tuition and stopped speaking to her.

teeny (teeny), Monday, 14 February 2005 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Family values, natch.

Aaron W (Aaron W), Monday, 14 February 2005 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder if there's any kind of viable lawsuit against her father's political organization for firing her.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 14 February 2005 21:34 (twenty-one years ago)

At least she's not at risk for getting pregnant and having an abortion. He'd kill her.

Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Monday, 14 February 2005 21:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"We must stone the harlot..."

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 14 February 2005 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Class act that Alan Keyes.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 14 February 2005 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

dispwn3d by that asshole > being accepted by him

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Monday, 14 February 2005 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)


Didn't he once say that he wouldn't do something like that, even though he wouldn't be happy about it (hypothetically)?

Yr3k (dymaxia), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

did he ever make a public statement about it? his daughter i mean?

well, at least he has the, ahem, courage (or asshattery) of his convictions.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:01 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah thats what i was gonna say: at least we knows he's a sincere fuckhead!

latebloomer: HE WHOM DUELS THE DRAFGON IN ENDLESS DANCE (latebloomer), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Keyes' Daughter Calls Self 'Liberal Queer'

Mon Feb 14,11:14 PM ET
By TOM STUCKEY, Associated Press Writer

ANNAPOLIS, Md. - The daughter of conservative Republican Alan Keyes referred to herself Monday as a "liberal queer" and urged support for gay and lesbian young people who have been deserted by their families.

Maya Marcel-Keyes, 19, addressed a rally sponsored by the gay-rights group Equality Maryland, saying she was motivated to speak out because of her rocky relationship with her parents and the recent death of a friend who had fallen ill after being thrown out of the house by his family.

Marcel-Keyes told several hundred supporters that her sexuality had created a rift in her relationship with her parents.

"Things just came to a head. Liberal queer plus conservative Republican just doesn't mesh well," she said. "That was making my life a little bit turbulent."

Later, Marcel-Keyes told CNN her parents "were not too pleased" when they learned she was a lesbian, but she said she loves them "very much, and they love me. They can't support my activities."

Her father, the Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate in Illinois last year, created a stir in August when he said during an interview that homosexuality was "selfish hedonism" and that Vice President Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter was a sinner.

In a statement issued Monday night, Keyes said: "My daughter is an adult, and she is responsible for her own actions. What she chooses to do has nothing to do with my work or political activities."

Marcel-Keyes said she received an outpouring of support when disclosing her sexual orientation, but her friend did not.

"Like me, he grew up queer in a conservative household," she said. But where she got hundreds of e-mails, offers of a place to stay and a college scholarship, "he'd been out there two years and had gotten nothing."

"And the worst part is, he isn't the only one," Marcel-Keyes said.

____

On the Net:

Equality Maryland: http://www.equalitymaryland.org

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know where all this "Marcel" business is coming from.

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)

you'd expect that when you fuck a mime, your offspring might be gay.

hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Not quite a sincere fuckhead. He's known about it for over a year, but only cut ties with here when it became public. He's more concerned about losing his support than any kind of moral judgement. What a cockfarmer.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

More and more I am convinced that Alan Keyes is actually a far-left provocateur executing a cunning program of ridicule and satire. I fully expect that when I’m 80 and Travis Obama is sworn in as attorney general someone will discover a diary in a dusty archive that’s all “Maya and I have got them eating out of our hands—a few more acts like this and we’ll kill that constitutional amendment dead.”

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 15 February 2005 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)


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