Jews for Jesus

Will report back with more later.

Do they specifically intend to target Jews as possible converts? I do recall that, a few times, I was walking in New York City and a JfJ guy would come walking straight up to me and hand me their literature...as if he somehow just knew that I was Jewish and ripe for their propaganda.

In all seriousness, though, they seem pretty harmless as evangelicals go.

This is exactly the same logical stretching that Christians who follow a literal interpretation of the Bible have to adhere to, since they also believe that Christ was the Jewish Messiah. So from a theological angle, the JfJ beliefs are really no different than 99% of conservative Christians.

which is why I wonder who funds them. I wouldn't be surprised if a l'il Falwell or Robertson fundage was swung their way.

he goes to a jew for jesus temple with a jew for jesus rabbi, so yes.

reminds me of the church that marvin gaye's father belonged to.

my future! especially the blond spouse part.

blondredhead = ME! :)

my cousin made a video in high school showing how interfaith marriages are evil. he used an episode of 30something as principal evidence.

except for my mother. love ya!

ok, people. i wasn't trying to say that jews cannot be blond, but i had to phrase it like that because all of the goys married into my father's side of the family happen to be fair haired. calm down.

xxpost

uh...

xpost

jeff smith the pedophile chef?

xxxxxpost

my grandgrandpappy changed his name from one really jewish-sounding name to another!!

is that when you get to have sex with blond shiksas?

i don't recall the mustache and the sombrero being part of the reparations package though...

"40 acres" = coca plantation
"mule" = drug courier

http://www.watchmanmag.com/gifs/jeff2.gif

AUTHOR OF THIS:

Just what happened on the mount of transfiguration?

The events themselves are simple enough to reconstruct with the inspired account of the beloved physician, Luke. In his gospel narrative, we learn that Christ led Peter, James and John up into the mountain to pray, where his appearance was transfigured into something glorious and majestic. Through drowsy eyes, the three apostles witnessed both this transformation and a subsequent conversation that Jesus had with Moses and Elijah, lawgiver and prophet respectively. Their discussion concerned our Lord's impending death in the city of Jerusalem.

Aroused and impetuous, Peter offered to construct three tabernacles for the Christ and his two Old Testament friends, indicating his notion that they were equally deserving of this special treatment. Just then a voice came out of the cloud and corrected the apostle, "saying, 'This is my beloved son. Hear him.'" The lawgiver and prophet had disappeared and Jesus alone remained before them.

The disciples who followed after Jesus during his earthly ministry lived in a time of transition. Still answerable to the law of Moses, they found it difficult to imagine a new order that would replace prophets and priests and lawgivers with a Messiah occupying all these seats himself. "When the voice had ceased, Jesus was found alone."

In each of the three gospel accounts of the transfiguration, the discussion which immediately precedes it is the same and about a week intervenes between the two. Luke, like Mark and Matthew, reports the words of Christ thus: "But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God" (9:27).

Mark's rendering clarifies that the kingdom of God would be "present with power" before the death of the last witness to this prophecy (9:1). Matthew's account adds that this would occur as Jesus is "coming in his kingdom" (16:28).

It is not absolutely necessary that there be a connection between these two events just because they occur successively and are reported thus in the gospel accounts. Today, I had lunch and then checked my electronic mail and now as I recount those events for the reader, they occur successively in my day but have no relation to one another. The kingdom prophecy and transfiguration, however, do have parallel points.

Again, the Lord predicted that his kingdom would come into existence before the total demise of his present generation. That means that it did not exist when he was born, nor even as he spoke these words to his disciples. The kingdom, however, would be established at some point between the period at the end of his sentence and the death of the last person alive as he spoke. For his prophecy to be fulfilled, the kingdom would have to be established sometime in the first century or no later than the early second century. We could not possibly be still waiting for it to be established today unless Jesus either lied or failed. Prophets cannot make predictions and then retreat to unforeseen circumstances as an excuse for failure. If the kingdom did not come during his generation, the Lord was a false prophet and deserves, not a second chance, but a second death (cf. Deuteronomy 18:22).

The connection between the kingdom prophecy and the transfiguration is that the latter illustrates the former. Many commentators and debaters, however, have exaggerated the connection and argued that the transfiguration actually fulfills the kingdom prophecy and is, in fact, the establishment of the kingdom of God. In a 1950 debate with brother Hoyt Houchen, Baptist pastor Ray Tatum argued that after Jesus issued the prediction, "He then led Peter, James and John on the mountain of transfiguration and there they saw the kingdom come with power .... The kingdom came with power then" (The Houchen-Tatum Debate, Dec. 26, 1950, page 54).

This exegesis, however, is riddled with difficulties that make it untenable.

First, Luke introduces his gospel narrative as being an "orderly account" (1:3). If we agree that chronology is imperative, Luke's order takes us from kingdom prophecy to transfiguration to prayer for the kingdom to come. In Luke 11:2, Jesus taught his followers to pray, "Thy kingdom come." If the kingdom came back on the mount of transfiguration, it makes no sense to continue praying for it. For a year, many of my neighbors wished for a certain barbecue restaurant to come to our fair city and now that it has, shall we continue wishing for it to come? Of course not; if Jesus taught those men and women to pray for the kingdom to come, it had not yet arrived.

Second, the new covenant did not take effect until the death of Jesus of Nazareth and if the kingdom preceded his death, it was a realm without law. "For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives" (Hebrews 9:17). The prophecy predicted that the kingdom would come with power, but the testament itself held no power until Jesus first died. Instead, Jesus required his disciples to continue to heed the law of Moses (Matthew 23:1-3), which he came to fulfill (Matthew 5:17) and took away with his death upon the cross (Colossians 2:14). If the kingdom came on the mount of transfiguration, its law was of Moses, not of Christ.

Third, there is the testimony of Joseph of Arimathea, a council member and a good and just man, but a secret disciple of Christ. Luke tells us that long after the transfiguration, he was still looking for the prophecy to be fulfilled, for he "was also himself waiting for the kingdom of God" (23:51). Many children spend months waiting for their birthdays to come and when the day arrives, they know enough to stop waiting and start celebrating. Joseph could not logically be described as waiting for a day that had come some time earlier.

The events upon the mount of transfiguration do indeed relate to the kingdom, but they do not fulfill the prophecy of its establishment. Instead, the episode with Moses and Elijah and the voice of God illustrates what would occur when the kingdom finally did arrive.

Moses represents the giving of law and Elijah represents the giving of prophecy, two facets of the Old Testament that were specifically listed by Jesus in his mission to fulfill (Matthew 5:17-18). When that moment came, the old law would be taken out of the way and a new covenant of Christ would replace it. The new covenant, however, could only take effect after the death of Christ, not before it. And so a chronology is developed of events that must precede or accompany the establishment of the kingdom. The transfiguration is just too soon since it does not allow for these events to pass first:

Jesus is killed and then is resurrected (Matthew 16:21, 28)
The kingdom comes with power (Luke 24:49)
Jesus is crowned its monarch (Acts 2:30-31)
The law of Moses is taken out of the way (Eph. 2:15)
The new covenant takes effect (Heb. 9:16-17)

If the kingdom came on the mount of transfiguration, it came before the new covenant was in place and the law of Moses was its code. Under the law of Moses, however, Jesus could not be a priest, for he was a Jew, a tribe about which Moses had spoken nothing concerning the priesthood (Hebrews 7:12-13).

Truly, we can better correlate from scripture that the death, resurrection and ascension of Christ provide the proper time for the law of Moses to be removed, Jesus to be crowned, the kingdom to be established and the new covenant to take effect.

On the day of Pentecost, power came upon the apostles in Jerusalem as Jesus had predicted (Luke 24:49). The Holy Spirit descended upon them as tongues of fire and each man could speak in unstudied languages to proclaim the gospel to all nations. Peter began to preach that day a sermon which Luke saw fit to record. In it, Peter focused upon the death of Christ and his resurrection. See how much is accomplished by the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus: "Jesus of Nazareth ... you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death, whom God raised up" (Acts 2:23-24). After quoting David's resurrection prophecy from Psalm 16, Peter preaches, "Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, he would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ" (Acts 2:30-31).

If the kingdom was established on the mount of transfiguration, its throne was empty for it took death and resurrection to fill it. No, Jesus was raised from the grave and into heaven in order to sit on the throne of David and that happened well after the temporary transfiguration of Luke 9.

What occurred on that mountain simply illustrated the prophecy Jesus had uttered a week earlier by suggesting its consequences. The law and prophets would be fulfilled and the covenant of Christ would take force. That is the significance of the two worthies disappearing and leaving Christ alone before the apostles' eyes. The appearance of the temporarily glorified Jesus foreshadowed the day of Pentecost when the permanently glorified master would be sitting upon David's throne with all authority in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18-20), the King of kings and Lord of lords (1 Timothy 6:15). His future resurrection body was on display that day, the figure he would take on forever when he shed his earthly tabernacle after death.

Finally, it is not wasted words that inform us that, on the mountain, Moses, Elijah and Jesus were discussing "his decease which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem" (Luke 9:31). His decease led him to the throne of the kingdom he was establishing. On the mount of transfiguration, the three were only discussing the kingdom yet to come.

oops.

Too late now!

"WHERE'S MY MULE, PUNK-ASS????"

(throw in some IRISH too)

xpost

Jews for Jesus is, I believe, a construct of the Southern Baptists, who decided "converting" Jews was too much trouble so devised a sect that practiced Judaism - the holidays, services, etc. - yet accepted Christ as their savior. So my understanding is that it's less actual Jews for Jesus than Jesus nuts who follow some traditions of Judaism.

In other words, a big bait and switch ruse.

-- hstencil (hstenc!...) (webmail), August 10th, 2004 1:00 PM.

-- cutty (holle...), August 10th, 2004. (mcutt) (later)

jesuits for judaism!

I had an Israeli roommate once, and she was brunette.

she'owl, sheh‑ole', Hebrew 7585; or she'ol, sheh‑ole'; from Hebrew 7592 (sha'al); hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates :‑ grave, hell, pit.

HELL AND HADES. "Hope not ever to see heaven: I come to lead you to the other shore; into the eternal darkness; into fire and into ice." Dante's `Inferno', from which the quotation comes, is perhaps the most vivid depiction in literature of the place of eternal punishment for evildoers. Abodes for the dead have formed a part of the religious belief of most peoples. One reason for such belief has been the reluctance to accept the end of human life on Earth as permanent, as the extinction of individual existence.

The names hell and Hades have generally been understood as places of punishment, either eternal or temporary. Ancient cultures often envisioned an abode for the dead as a reward, or as neutral, rather than always as a punishment. In very ancient primitive religions, as well as among American Indians, the dead went to dwell with their ancestors or to a heavenly location with other souls. Ancient Israel conceived of a place called Sheol, a dark and gloomy place, to be sure, but no elements of punishment were attached to it.

The Greek Hades (originally the name of the god who presided over it) did not suggest punishment either. It was a dark subterranean realm or a distant island. The dead were conducted to Hades by the god Hermes. The way was barred, however, by the River Styx. The dead were ferried across the river by the boatman Charon. Eventually, the Greeks added a place called Tartarus, far below Hades, as a place of torment for the wicked. In time Tartarus lost its distinctness and became another name for Hades.

The word hell comes from an Anglo-Saxon root meaning "concealed," and it suggests a place hidden in the hot regions at the Earth's center. In Norse mythology Hel was the name of the world of the dead as well as of its goddess. It was especially for evildoers and was distinguished from Valhalla, the place to which those who had fallen in battle went. The ancient Greek myth of Elysium, or the Elysian fields, was similar to Valhalla. It was a dwelling place for heroes on whom the gods had conferred immortality. Eventually it came to mean the abode for all the blessed dead, as opposed to Hades.

The concept of hell as a place of punishment is rooted in the idea of justice. Hell was offered as an answer to the question: If evildoers prosper throughout their lives and are never punished, when will they get what is coming to them? The answer must be: after they die.

The modern Western understanding of hell derives from the latest period in ancient Israel's history, and it was more fully developed by early Christianity. The chief suggestion of such a place in the Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament) is a brief reference in Daniel. The place reserved for the wicked dead was called Gehenna by Jews. Early references depict it as a place of temporary punishment, similar to the Roman Catholic purgatory. By the time Christianity was established, it had become a permanent abode. The torments inflicted there were largely imaginative projections of the worst tortures devised in this world. Eternal fire is the most common punishment, though perpetual cold also has been accepted.

There is no fully developed teaching about hell in the New Testament, though there are frequent mentions of it. Only in the course of later church history was it elaborated into official church doctrine. Today the New Testament statements and their later explanations are taken literally by some Christians, regarded as allegory or myth by some, and denied altogether by others.

Islam has no consistent teaching on hell. It is regarded as permanent in some passages of the Koran and temporary in others. In Hinduism, hell is accepted, but it has no permanent significance. It is but a stage in the long career of the soul. For most Buddhist schools, as well, hell is a transitory phase where sins are purged.

HELL - Hell traditionally denotes the place or state of being of unrepentant souls who are damned to eternal punishment after death. Derived from the Old Teutonic word hel, meaning "to conceal" or "to cover," the word hell is used in English translations of the Bible to represent both the Hebrew Sheol, an ethically neutral underworld for the departed, and the Greek Gehenna, the underworld for the punishment of the wicked from which the Christian concept of hell developed.

The characteristics of an underworld pervade descriptions of hell. In Greek mythology, Hades is the underworld ruled by the god of that name, who is also known as Pluto; in Norse mythology, Hel is a cold and

shadowy subterranean realm. The Christian imagery of hell as a fiery underworld comes from the New Testament, where hell is depicted as a "lake that burns with fire and brimstone" (Rev. 21:8). Two of the most famous and extensive descriptions of hell in Western culture come from John Milton's Paradise Lost and Dante's Divine Comedy. While the Western prophetic religions view hell as the Last Judgment of those souls that will be eternally separated from God, most Eastern religions conceive of hell as a stage that souls pass through on their way to a different existence (see transmigration of souls).

Bibliography:

Brandon, S. G. F., The Judgment of the Dead (1967); Mew, James, Traditional Aspects of Hell (1903; repr. 1971).

HEL

In Norse mythology, Hel, the daughter of Loki, was the goddess of death who ruled over the cold, dark underworld of Niflheim. She had a hideous body, half black and half blue. Her table was Hunger, her knife Starvation, her bed Care, and her attendants Delay and Slowness. Her domain was also sometimes called Hel in later mythology, probably through the influence of Christian belief.

Concise Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia Copyright

xpost

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/j/jews/

The fact that the first Christians were Jews is pointless, since the first Mormons were Christians, the first Buddhists were Hindus, and the first Protestants were Catholics. Yet, neither Martin Luther nor the millions of Protestants who follow him called themselves 'Catholics for no Pope'

Hey now, I thought Elysium was a Roman invention -- like Ovid or someone wanted to reward Achilles and friends by giving them a swanker place to stay than the commonfolk.

Yeah, that's exactly what it says in the Bible. Jesus fullfilled the prophesies as the messiah from the Old Testament, and he became the sacrifice for the whole worlds sins, saving it, giving it rebirth, whatever you call it. What Chistian does not believe that?

as for me, i think that they are anti-semitic and disrespectful of judaism, therefore undeserving of respect.

that would be when linkin park records a GOOD song.

Oy vey.

parading converts around does nothing to help interfaith relations that's for sure.
m.

Then again - Zadie Smith and James Wood to thread.

But no - they both live in the US!

If only that were true - I regularly pass by the London branch of Jews for Jesus on the bus. I think it's somewhere around Camden/Kentish Town, can't remember exactly.

http://www.idealist.org/if/idealist/en/SiteIndex/AssetViewer/view?asset=Job&asset-id=150112-201&keywords=writer&sid=35042097-192-UuWzH

-- DV (dirtyvica...), September 30th, 2005.

Some of them are, in a sense (though it's debatable that Jews are really an "ethnic group" since there are Ethiopian Jews that look Ethiopian and Morroccan Jews that look Morroccan, etc.)

But the organization was actually started by Baptists looking for a way to convert Jews.