Target 2006 - World Cup qualification banter starts here

i think ireland can get a win at home and a draw away - and i'll be more than happy with that. no roy, no holland, no delap, possibly no miller - midfield is left a bit thin. duff on left wing, i guess, morrison and keane up front. kilbane and andy reid will start. with miller out, it could be kavanagh (in the centre) or finnan (down the right) in the first team, i'm not sure. barrett down the right is also a possibility, he did well there in some of the summer friendlies.

I think Eriksson has ended Heskey's England career, as anything more than a squad player at any rate. Bringing Vassell on alongside Owen in Euro2004 and opting for Smith upfront since would suggest that. The calamitous fuckup against France was probably the last straw.

Ireland really ought to finish at least second in their group - it's amazing how poor Switzerland looked in Portugal while Ireland look like much the better team, considering the results between the two in the qualifying for Euro 2004.

defoe or smith, in rooney's absence? which centre-half to partner terry?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/testthenation/

????

james
g(roan) neville, king, terry, cole
beckham, lampard, terry, bridge
owen, defoe/smith

Both Smith and Defoe are playing as well as they've ever done at the moment but I reckon Smith will start, possibly with Defoe coming on after the break. The Terry-King partnership looks solid and its heartening that they're not even England's first choice partnership.

Are we expecting Rio to walk straight back into the first team when his ban ends?

Heskey should not play for England again.

I think when Ferdinand and Campbell are both fit again they will be competing with Terry for two places: I suspect King will slip back to fourth place, and Woodgate could make a claim at Real too. We're strong there.

Ireland despatched Cyprus well, no great trouble, and Reid was excellent. I didn't see Northern Ireland's 3-0 defeat against Poland. Wales just played very poorly for a 1-1 draw in Azerbaijan, but almost get a win in the closing seconds when an Earnshaw header hits the post. The commentators referred to Bazeraijan at one point, and collectively as "the Azerbaijans" are playing well - yes, and the Waleses aren't.

Austria-England to come. Bridge and Cole playing, but Bridge in front of Cole. Who thinks that Bridge is the better attacker and Cole the better defender?

Goalkeeping moments are what I'll remember: Maninger not getting sent off for a handball clearly outside his area, his save from Smith, who from there should have given him no chance, James letting one through his hands that was stopped between his feet, and letting the equaliser through in a dive that was so wrong, so amateurish-looking. Very disappointing.

Having said all that, there is no one particularly terrific in the group, and maybe things will run our way a bit on Wednesday - I think Poland might be the second best team in the group, so winning there would be a very big step towards winning the group.

I'm a bit worried that James's confidence will be shot for Wednesday now as well.

I hope Sven does a Heskey, voicing his support for Calamity and then quietly dropping him.

If things go to form then England will tonk Poland on Wednesday. It always happens this way round.

There definitely needs to be more tackling in midfield - Austria seemed to be able to just run straight through at times, ditto Portugal and France and...

SWP should be given a crack, give some pace to what is a largely static midfield. I thought Bridge and Cole combined well on the left, mind - Cole passing to Bridge than racing ahead to get Bridge to pass back to him.

I was uneasy about Gerard on the left, and yes it's wrong. I just want to see SWP in. I'd also like to see Joe Cole get 30 mins.

Sven will do none of the above, of course. Mind you if we lose, he'll go.

i wonder how the French feel after a goal-less draw at home to Israel?

And what of the Greeks, their Euro 2004 pride decimated by those plucky Albanians? Denmark and Turkey also making bad starts in that group - it's gonna be fascinating to watch that one go right to the wire.

Gerrard missed training "as a precaution". Hmm.

I don't think Sven would neccessarily *deserve* to go if we lose to Poland, but i think the FA may be looking for an excuse...

What worried me is how bloody brittle we are - when Austria were on the back foot in the 1st half, we looked a decent team, passing with confidence and moving well; the moment we became unsettled and on the back foot, we looked brittle, weak and constantly vulnerable. Very much like the French game in fact. There needs to be a steely resolve to any team that wants to dig out results - that's something that needs to be instilled, and it surprises me than Sven doesn't appear to have done this. This is, to me, his greatest failing. At times, the desire to stay resolute must come from the players on the pitch, and at times, substitutions help this, and under Eriksson, we seem to be able to affect neither.

what then to make Gary Nevill's remarks saying 'blame the players, not the manager?' i'm actually strangely impressed by his attitude.

The problem in central midfield is that we have some terrific midfielders - Beckham, Gerard, Lampard, Scholes until recently - but we really need a Keane/Viera in there, a Bryan Robson even, to deal with that fragility that Dave mentions. My feeling isn't so much that we crumble under pressure, though there is some of that, as that we tend to think in terms of defending a lead - I've seen us change our aproach many times once ahead, and our middle is FAR better equipped to play the ball around with purpose and make things happen than it is to stop the opposition, so choosing to defend a lead is an attitude that plays to our weaknesses.

It's worth noting that, as with the penalty in the France match, he charges out to try and get to a criminally misjudged Steven Gerrard backpass.

England lack passion, this man would restore it:

Shaun Derry

"Ask yourself this question. When did Beckham last have a really great game for England?
Against Greece almost three years ago is the answer."

hahaha, and Terry Butcher lives and works in Scotland, folks.

Hey wait, what about Nobby Stiles - he's got big match experience.

Who are the major competition in the group? Wales? Poland? Every team is probably going to slip up at some point. England were kind of unlucky that night? two (one and a half at least) goalkeeping errors and defoe hit the post with a shot that could have won it.

losing to poland would make things harder though, but you can still go through even coming 2nd in the group.

He also claims, however, that he set up "lots" of goals at Euro2004. Could someone who pays more attention to England games than me confirm this is utter bollocks?

Have you noticed whatever the press say - eventually Sven follows !

re
try Alan Thompson on the left - one game
try Bridge at Left Wing
call up for SWP
Bring Defoe into the squad
Bring Alan Smith into the squad
Drop Calamity James

Someone start a Matty Taylor for England Campaign

Northern Ireland 2-0 up, down to 9 men, THat cunt Savage sent off? this is beautiful

I think Nicky Butt needs to put in a seriously good season at Newcastle, frankly.

Ahem, and talking of young 'uns who is England U21 Captain at the Mo - Mr Gary O'Neil of Portsmouth FC.

GON as he is known made his Pompey debut at 16 ! and has captained England U17, u18, u19 and last year's emerging U20 squad in a tournament and now Peter Taylor has made him Captain of England U21 - due to his experience, maturity, creativity and leadership qualities.

Pompey are shit, and have the most annoying fan ever to watch a premiership match

"LOOK, ENGLISH POMPEY PLAYERS ARE RUBBISH, JUST ACCEPT IT! "

this statement still stands

Enough said !

but the statement Portsmouth sucks arse is OTM.

Current Portsmouth Players connected with Scotland:

Nigel "your NOT English anymore" [Mc]Quashie
Richard Hughes

plus
Kevin Harper has just gone on loan to Leicester
and don't forget to send Bertie McVoghts to Pompey Reserve matches as Mark Burchill can be seen in action !

"you're".

Parker might be the best bet, except obviously he isn't getting games. Butt's all very well when defending, but he contributes little otherwise - I mean, he's a tidy passer, but that's it. Carrick has some work to do to get into the reckoning, I think. I'm unconvinced that, for instance, shifting Gerard out wide left and bringing in Butt will gain more than it loses, overall - we'd trade Bridge's defensive abilities, pretty substantial ones, for Butt's more central defensive role; but we'd lose Gerard's central influence and range of passing and drive and some goals, and the balance that a genuinely left-sided player gives. I'd like to see someone who offers more than Butt in that role to think such a move was undoubtedly a good one. It's all very well conceding fewer goals, but if you're scoring fewer too, you haven't really gained anything. One problem currently is that we often seem to want to just sit on a lead: 2-0 up would be a very good time to bring on Butt, for instance, as he can play a very useful role in that, but starting with him is a different matter.

I watched O'Neill in the U-21 game yesterday, and wasn't terribly impressed, and I can't see him being considered in the immediate future.

he'd have been the only one tonight.

Bruce Arena for England Coach pls.

El Salvador is no Austria, though. They're not even Leichtenstein.

I hope I don't see a single tabloid article about it today cos that will anger me no end.

the Wales v NIR match looked incredible - electric atmosphere and what a forst 20 mins. Result bad for both teams tho really. Still if it's like that between them then maybe we will see England fans banned from Cardiff and Belfast??

There's a great pic of him in the Guardian of Savage in the middle of getting punched, with his shorts down and his nasty white y-fronts on display. Its hilarious.

ireland = not great performance, good result. The first half was ok, apart from a ten minute spell where switzerland carved us open at will (culminating in the equaliser). Second half we were just sitting back and clinging on, defending extremely deep. they pulled it off, so they shouldn't be criticised too harshly, but more ideas needed in the return game, and the games against france, i feel. both keanes disappointing, though roy improved in the second half. given stellar. kavanagh very impressive when he came on as a sub - has to be pushing for a regular starting plays. andy reid very disappointing. great first half from duff and morrison, faded a bit though. ireland defended set pieces superbly, i think pretty much every corner was met with an irish head.

i'm sticking with my original prediction - ireland to come second in the group.

Jamie McFadden - this may be hard to believe for followers of English football, and followers of Everton in particular, but when this boy plays for Scotland he's like a different player. He was far and way the best FOOTBALLER on the park last night - and that includes Acimovic. In contrast, Darren Fletcher just isn't living up to his early promise and Barry Ferguson has, to all intents and purposes, become Gary McAllister, i.e., he thinks wearing the captain's armband gives him permission to stroll about in midfield doing FUCK ALL. Quashie almost scored a Alan Thompson-like screamer last night but, in every other regard, appears to be a total haddie*. Defence fell apart as the game wore on, the magical Heart of Midlothian telepathy appear to wear off. Gary Naysmith played well again and so, par for the course for Berti, was injured and had to be taken off. Meanwhile, Dickov and Crawford are effective at irritating opposing defences but not effective at getting the ball in the opposing net.

If this isn't the greatest Martian moment ever, somebody post what is.

and Pompey are still crap even now I'm not drunk

"I'm going to miss the England game now and this is the lowest point of my career."

:D

great post from Tim H on TMFD yesterday concerning the players press-snub btw, a view i couldn't agree with more

pleased for the boys beckham and owen - the two scorers (arguably - in owen's case) at least temporarily silencing their critics. got out of work in time to see the last 20 of this game - and the 2nd goal was a treat - shame the captain will now have to face questions about his quite bizarre flash of temper rather than his excellent footballing performance. england home and hosed.

ireland - had 52% of the possession - a quietly impressive statistic given the reputation of the two teams and the kind of game many had envisaged beforehand. in injury time i wasn't sure if i wanted ireland to go and hold the ball in the corner or push for the killer goal - perhaps i am slightly disappointed that we didn't win it? o'shea had a sitter from a free-kick, i dunno if we'll rue those two missed points but it was a GREAT performance.

kilbane was stellar - never thought it would be possible for him to be the best player on the pitch in a game against france, but he was motm fo sho. he's always been a great scrapper, but there was a real stylishness about some of his play. eclipsed keane (who was good, but perhaps it is testament to the excellence of some of our solid pros tonite that he just looked like another cog in the wheel, rather than a superstar carrying a bunch of ok players?)

i am partially (re) won over to o'shea - hopeless for united for 1 1/6 seasons, tonight he was extremely economical with the ball, and drove forward plenty. shame (from eire's POV) that heinze has nailed down left back at manyoo - it's o'shea's best position, and def suits him more than the silly midfield role they have him in.

given is a god. him and barthez were like robots programmed to protect their goals - mopped up everything that came near them.

odd performance from duff - more about defensive graft than dribbling and crossing. he ruled, regardless.

shame morrison was injured so early, his best 40 minutes in an ireland shirt, his first touch has improved SO MUCH since he first arrived, distribution with back to goal was impeccable.

bring on the faroes...

England were... okay. The whole event was kinda anticlimactic in the end, we'd led to anticipate the BATTLE OF BRITAIN but Wales looked largely inept going forward. Defensively, however, it was weird how Danny Gabbidon fluctuated from hero to complete muppet in the space of seconds, and then back again.

France are, frankly, shit without Zidane. Ireland outplayed them for most of the match and deserved to win. But Roy Keane having to change his pants was very funny.

Ireland were superb - if you'd told me 0-0 and I hadn't seen it I'd have imagined France with two thirds of the ball, making chances but kept out by a heroic rearguard action and great goalkeeping, but it wasn't anything like that.

Scotland, however. Hughes' "goal" was over the line, but we weren't creating enough chances for it not to have mattered. I spent most of the afternoon sticking up for James McFadden, but to no avail. If you are the last man on the line, and the ball is coming towards you at a great speed, your instinct is to keep it out at whatever cost. If you get sent off, at least you've saved a definite goal and there is a chance that the resultant penalty could be saved. Calculated gamble, innit? No-one else I was with saw it like this, deciding that he would have been more use on the park if we were one-nil down. I guess they are right, but I know what I'd have done in his situation.

I continue to be amazed at the total transformation of Barry Ferguson into the most valuable player Scotland have had for years. If, as is thought, he won't be fit for the Moldova game on Wednesday, I don't hold out much hope that a team already decimated by injuries can survive without him, McFadden and Dickov. I shall be watching from behind the sofa, as always.

I take large amounts of consolation from the fact that a team including Henry, Pires, Cisse, Gallas et al aren't very good either. Ireland were grebt, though, not to take anything away from them, but France are decidedly meh these days.

Did Scotland miss Nigel [Mc]Quashie?

= boasting, no?

Even confessing would not be very clever.

a lot of people suspected what he had done so confessing may well have been the smartest thing to do in this instance. if he hadn't the critics would just brand him a disrespectful cheating snide anyway.

Further conspiracy theory - Beckham knew full well the sex and blackmail scandal was going to come out the following day and didn't want to have to travel with England and face the press.

"There they were. Chafing me. Itching me like mad. Those fucking pants could fuck off. Teresa had bought them in Marks & Spencer without consulting me."

Some things never get old.

xpost x3

to punish Beckham for admitting to something that happens all the time would just be another example of the double-standard and reactionary bureaucracy dogging (and not in a good way) football - see also booking players for 'over-celebrating'

On the contrary, yah he should

Pires should be retrospectively cautioned, in an ideal world. It's already an encouraging step that players can be punished after the fact (presumably Barthez will be for his elbow against Ireland?).

A player badly injures another with a two footed challenge, and admits he was trying to hurt his opponent, what should happen to him?

Players deliberately foul each other ALL THE TIME without getting a three-match ban. Ben Thatcher himself put an elbow up against Beckham in the first challenge - should he be given a three-match ban as well for a premediated assault?

There's a difference between trying to hurt another player and trying to get yourself booked. Also I suspect Beckham's deliberate foul probably hurt him considerably more than it did Thatcher.

The question is whether he should be banned for pissing about with the rules rather than for a pretty innocuous foul.

i am actually in favour of weighting the fine thing in terms of how much a player earns. ergo, a fine of a week or two's wages (£120,000?) seems fair wrt to Beckham.

"I must not be smug about breaking the rules"

carsmile you deserve a MOTTY MERIT for that, well done

You don't, however.

So, whilst Beckham getting dun would be rank hypocrisy, he seems to forget that this is world football we are talking about, where Sepp Blatter gets indicted on 14 charges of corruption and wins a larger majority as FIFA Presidnet. Indeed, Blatter ongoing 'look at me, standing up for the little countries against the nasty big stars and clubs and countries' would be nicely aided by him saying 'no-one is above the requirement to observe fair play at all times, even the most famous players on the planet, as we in the football family must always remember our obligations, and the more we gain from the game, the more we must give back.' Or something like that.

On a related subject, I think 2006 will be the most superbly amazing tournament. Tickets go on sale in February, and I shall be buying.

It might just work...

Anyone want to watch the game, c.5:30 / 6, in London?

Also - Blatter blast Beckham, as I predicted. Once again, the FA and Becks fail to understand that as far as post-colonial FIFA politics are concerned, Blatter never, ever misses a trick to put the boot into Blighty.

Boyle, do you want to watch the match?

< /received wisdom, just like in Euro2004>

Vogts won Euro 96 with Germany, now even the Scots want him out.

By implication he doesn't rate:

Gary Speed
Brian Flynn
John Toshack

Coming soon... Tony Blair (aye right!).

VOTE RESULTS
What has David Beckham done wrong?
Get deliberately booked
18%
Tell everyone what he did
61%
Nothing at all
21%
86325 Votes Cast

From BBC Sport

Beckham added: "I'm sure some people think that I have not got the brains to be that clever.

"But I do have the brains. I could feel the injury. So I fouled (Ben) Thatcher."

it's so beautifully ironic that it had to have been scripted

15 mins: "Am I missing something?" writes Simon Rushbrook, who continues his very long email with far too many abbreviations, no punctuation and some bad language. So, to answer your question Simon - yes you are missing something: Good bloody manners.

haha

Tell me Britishers and Europeans, does anbody ever try to do this on purpose as a kind of set play?

Congrats, England.

(surprised and disappointed with wales and sco)

ireland are never good at racking up five or six against crappy teams. we always stall around two or three. it reminds me of the exchange mick mccarthy described on the bench when ireland huffed and puffed to a 3-1 win against andorra.

ireland sub 1: "frustrating bunch, aren't they?"
ireland sub 2: "yeah, but what about andorra?"

quite.

roy keane and kilbane are forming a really solid partnership, on the plus side. we are very well placed in the group. great last minute equaliser from northern ireland put a smile on my face also. what's gone wrong with scotland and wales? vogts out of a job?

1. This the is most miserable Scottish team I have ever seen.
2. I'm fairly sure this is not the worst collection of Scottish players I have ever seen.
3. One conclusion has been springing to mind, for a while.

The aftermatch was heartbreaking - Stevie Thompson receiving his 'man-of-the-match' champagne with the tears almost freezing in the eyes, then back to the funereal studio, Dougie Donnelly and Gordon Smith barely able to hide their anger and anguish ("anyone who thinks we can still qualify must also believe in the tooth fairy", "I'd love to hear what Berti has to say after this.."), John Collins looking doleful, dejected, disconsolate. Mirroring us all.

Frankly, I don't know why Scotland even bother. When was the last time you saw a team as bad as Scotland (certainly one from the European pool) in the World Cup Finals? It's an unrealistic ambition.

"And surely lads, Ireland were great tonight, a 2-0 win???????" *puppy dog eyes*

"No Bill"-Liam Brady

"Definitely not Bill"-Eamonn Dunphy.

"No way Bill"-Ray Houghton.

i expected Poland to challenge England for top spot from the off and i'm sure that's what they'll do (i didn't expect them to beat Wales in Wales tho, gah)

and Portugal stuick 7 past those plucky little russians, er no, hold on...

Also 6-0 vs Luxembourg (the only time I ever went to the old Wembley) in Sept '99 - if that's recent enough to qualify. Tim H had a hand in (my experience of) that too.

Does Holland 6-0 Scotland count?

nobody answered my question about Liechtenstein or the Faroe Islands, choosing to mention other teams i was not interested in. i can't remember the last time these teams lost by more than 3 goals (maybe Turkey against Liechtenstein?) - which suggest they have improved a lot this decade, will continue to do so and are already a cut above the only two remaining whipping boys in Europe.

x-post: he gets stick cos he misses so many chances, most Irish fans would acknowledge that he does miss chances and fails to pass the ball too much. it is an issue of footballing brains I think, for sure. he's just not 100 percent reliable for goals. yes he's scored some important ones but he has often been absent from big games, he had a very bad time of qualification last time around.

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/worldcup2006/irish_soccer_detail.asp?newsid=14081

I will not call him a tool until he leaves us.

I did not see the match, alas. I was in another pub!

Hello, Kilian.

Penelope, do you live in Ireland?

teh world atlas to thread, pwn3d, otm etc

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=313109&cc=5901

"Hello, Kilian."

hello pinefox.

the boy becks can count himself lucky.

so, who's applying for World Cup tickets? Boyler? anyone else?

i think i have a Mastercard account but not a card. will it be enough? i would like to visit Germany sooner than next Summer but i should be there no matter what even if i can't get any match tickets. join me!

i'll get you started:

join Steve and Dave, two typical english lads, as they travel around germany in a dormobile during the world cup. see there hopes, fears and latent homosexual tendancies after spending four weeks in a sweaty van together...

bah the graun search engine is rub, but i'm sure i read about it...

(xpost)

Getting out of the corner to provide for that own goal was incredible.

Is this the way to the San Siro
We're off the beer and on the vino
Scotland 1, Italia zero
O Bonnie Scotland, win for me.

Ho, and indeed, ho.

-- the neurotic awakening of s, September 1st, 2004 2:10 PM

well well...

anyway, tonight i applied for tickets!

#57: (Quarter Final), W49 - W50, Berlin, PK 4
30.06.2006
#49: (Round of Sixteen), WA - RB, Munich, PK 4
24.06.2006
#37: (Group Match), C4 - C1, Frankfurt, PK 4
21.06.2006

4 million applicants, 3.2m tickets available by my ropey calculations (not sure if they pick your name out for just one game at a time or for all the games you apply for). even if i don't get tickets i'm still vaguely planning on being there next Summer.

on the plus side, france have cocked up big time - two draws in four days! we are still in a solid position.

england? solid enough. didn't see the northern ireland game, but i heard they did quite well. owen missed a hatful tonight, beckham had a good game i thought. not a great england performance overall, but i think sven has done enough to stave off the critics for now.

what has gone wrong with wales? they've gone from being serious contenders in the last group stage, back down to minnows again in this group. although i heard they actually played ok tonight.

What's happened to Owen? :(

One day it will happen.

even if he does very well, i think it is unlikely that he will displace owen in the team. owen is a fixture for england, and it will take more than a few missed sitters against azerbaijan to change that.

it may be the case that owen's lack of club starts has cost him some sharpness, though his excellent goals/minutes tally for madrid would not suggest that.

The owen quote that caused all the upset:

'Owen had done little to earn Carlos Alberto's wrath in the build-up to the game, having pointedly failed to respond to questions about Macdonald's record, dating back to 1975 against Cyprus.

``I wasn't aware that five was the record and that's a fantastic feat. I've scored four goals a couple of times before, but I don't remember ever scoring five in a game,'' he had said on Monday.

``But 8-0 against Poland has certainly got everyone thinking there could be a few goals about.

``Many years ago, there were plenty of cricket scores in international football and these chances are few and far between, but winning the game is the most important thing.''

Owen did actually score in Azerbaijan if I remember correctly. And in the following World Cup qualifier (Northern Ireland) and was instrumental in the OG as well. Bit early to be writing him off just because he isn't running half the length of the pitch and going past four defenders in every game. Although not missing a few sitters would help.

Still, nothing other than an absolutely sensational Defoe performance capped off with a hattrick will convince Sven to drop Owen.

Have people just got bored of shouting "drop Beckham!" by now, or is it one good performance, or is the sudden realisation that it would mean playing Kieron Dyer in the first team?

really poor passing and finishing from England several times last night. Rooney had some good moments but not enough.

england's cricket scores, maybe

Was anyone else nauseated by the sight of the 'new' England kit being advertised around the pitch they were playing in it on on Saturday, or was it just me? It put me right off football for life.

I think I win the prize for today's most tortured sentence.

I'm all for Cole/Cole on the left as it makes pre-game tactics harder for the opposition -

Aragones - "When they break down the left don't let Cole get overlap Cole and get to the byline"
Joaquin - "Which one?"
Aragones - "Erm . . Erm . . . oh just mark the n . "
FIFA - "FINED!"

#55: (Round of Sixteen), WF - RE, Dortmund, PK 4 27.06.2006
#58: (Quarter Final), W53 - W54, Hamburg, PK 4 30.06.2006
#61: (Semi Final), W57 - W58, Dortmund, PK 4 04.07.2006

Ukraine have almost certainly secured a place, leaving Turkey and European champions Greece to battle for a play-off spot (which they will definitely lose anyway).

I really hope the Czechs qualify for the World Cup this time.

I'm expecting Ireland not to make it after the draw with Israel. They have to take at least four points from France and Switzerland at home, which they could realistically do but probably won't.

Spain lucked out against plucky Bosnia by the sounds of it. I've given up on tipping them to ever win anything.

Just like their play last night. Appalling.

Argentina, Germany, Brazil 4/1JF
England 7/1
Holland 8/1
Italy 9/1
Czech Republic 10/1 (assuming they do qualify)
Portugal, Spain 12/1
other European teams 20/1
everyone else 33-500/1

Brazil 9/2
Argentina 6/1
Germany 13/2
England 7/1
Italy 9/1
Holland 10/1
France 12/1
Spain 14/1
Portugal 18/1
Czech Rep 20/1

The worst thing about yesterday was the realisation that if Norway drew with Slovenia last night and we then went to Norway and won on Wednesday, we would actually go ABOVE Norway in the group. Then the spawny little bastards get a 90th minute winner to go onto 12 points, with Scotland adrift on 7 points.

If only Norway hadn't scored in injury time. If only Craig Gordon's fantastic one-handed fingertip save hadn't fallen to an Italian, if only Jackie McNamara had got more in the way of the shot and deflected it some other way...oh yes, and if only we'd got rid of Berti Vogts long before it became an uphill struggle to qualify. This group should not have been beyond Scotland. We're nowhere near as bad as people make out, we've just been made to look it by some questionable coaching and selection decisions.

scotland were very good. i thought miller was terriffic, not just for his battling, fighting, snapping etc, his touch was sublime at times. and an excellent goal.

i think scotland left themselves with too much to do, earlier in the group, though. i think they should not be pleased with a draw yesterday (though they should be pleased with the performance) - they were in a winning position, italy were not creating that many chances, and i thought scotland were capable of holding on.

england were not so good. clinging on at the end. eriksson's substitutions were poor - when england got the first goal, they looked like kicking on and getting another couple very quickly. all momentum was lost after changes were made.

beckham's new role got an exceedingly mixed press - ranging from "he was our best player, a revelation" to "he was a liability". my thoughts? somewhere between the two - his lack of tackling ability and defensive know-how would have been exposed against better opposition. but england were not up against better opposition, so he was mostly just free to ping tremendous long passes about, which were england's main threat, to tell the truth.

any thoughts?

I still don't quite know what to make of Darren Fletcher.

A fit (and playing regularly) Stephen Pearson and James McFadden would make a bit of a difference. As would Stephen Pressley being back. We're going to miss Christian Dailly on Wednesday (I was not convinced by the Sky commentator's "Scotland have a ready-made replacement in Brian O'Neil" confidence). Have we given up on Malky McKay again? Or is he injured?

Beckham was fine in the role for what he had to do, his long-range passing was absolutely sublime on occasions. If only we had a proper hard midfielder who could do that and tackle properly we might genuinely be in with a chance of winning.

4-3-3 is all well and good when you've got SWP and Joe Cole running at the opposition but there's still room for a Makalele in there somewhere. I'd genuinely like to see how England fare with Michael Carrick in front of the back four instead of one of the Big Three midfielders.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4212920.stm

Proof positive he doesn't watch the same match as everybody else though, as "we never gave them the opportunity to get a shot in". Apart from all the shots, obviously.

Also, it puts Scotland's achievements in matching Italy in real perspective when Ailsa can say "We're going to miss Christian Dailly", presumably with a straight face.

Scoff all you like Martin, he did a pretty effective job of keeping Totti quiet for the whole game. He was a good part of the reason we *did* match Italy.

Dailly played well yesterday (and has done so consistently for the last ten years in an international jersey, unlike some of the jokers that Berti has honoured with an international call-up), and I would take ten Christian Daillies over one over-paid fanny-dangler with poncey shoes and an inflated ego.

Scotland have a decent bunch of players at their disposal, and yesterday just proved that they are capable of far more than they have done over the last few years. There isn't a whole bunch of flair sometimes, admittedly, but we have players capable of more than hacking, clogging, and hoping not to get gubbed. Just now this group is about hanging on until it becomes mathematically impossible to qualify. And I hope when that happens (because it will, because we started off so badly under the car crash that was Berti Vogts), the classier players get a run at the team for the future. Players like James McFadden, Shaun Maloney, Stephen Pearson, Garry O'Connor, Craig Beattie. Until then, I'm glad of the Daillies, Pressleys, Weirs etc who can give us a semblence of pride.

I hope I'm not just being patronising to Scottish footballers - refraining from criticising them would surely qualify as that, wouldn't it? - and also, I don't think what I'm saying is very different from my despair at England's striking options many times over recent years, basically when Heskey has been contending for a place.

Bear in mind that we also have Darren Fletcher, top fanny-dangler at one of the big clubs, and he's been relatively rubbish.

See, I would despair if we had the depth of players that Eriksson has at his disposal and thought that Andy Johnson was the answer, but given some of the dross that has passed for the Scotland strike force over the years (Stevie Thomson anyone? thought not), I'd be biting your hand off for an Emile Heskey.

However, note to Walter Smith, Neil McCann is ancient, and you must be able to do better than that.

I can't see us beating Norway, really.

Totti does a good enough job of that himself. Why do you Brits have the weird impression that Totti is some kind of world class player, rather than yet another unable-to-stay-on-his-feet pretty boy included solely in the Italy squad to appease the advertisers (see also: Del Piero, Alex).

But fair play to Scotland, they really earned that draw. They played well enough to go 2-0 up in the first half, we played well enough to win 2-1 at the end... draw seems like a fair result to me.

In the Sunday press, Terry Butcher claimed that Beckham's legs have gone, but I saw them, with my own eyes, on the pitch on Saturday.

Kenny Miller was impressive in his dogged resilience. Scotland are 'coming back'.

Evidently, England's new formation is silly - it's Christmas Tree or bust as any fewl know.

p.s. I really do despair of the Italian team, who I've supported forever and who have been letting me down for 23 years. They're a bit like England in the underperforming stakes.

He was also a revelation in a W.T.F. tactical move by wee Craig in playing him as a wing back in WC98.

Limited ability yes, but does what he's asked to do - the difference since wee Walter came in is that now the players understand what they're being asked to do.

xxpost

When we (me, the mister and Ally C) were watching that game round my house, I missed Berti name-checking him because we heard the shouting and were rolling around on the floor pissing ourselves laughing too much. This, along with the heart-string-tugging "my father died watching Scotland so I had to do my all for him" tales of his patriotism is probably why I hold Christian Dailly in such high esteem as a Scotland player.

The first time I ever saw Dailly play was in some Under-16 tournament in Inverness. He was a striker at Dundee Utd, and he was a big gangly rubbish streak of piss.

In other news, Norway are so scared of Scotland, they have recalled Egil Ostenstad. Bwahahahaah. Was Tore Andre Flop unavailable?

http://media.putfile.com/Cheats74

I think you can hear James McFadden saying "Fuckin' wankers" at one point.

Looks like Wallie is sticking with the one-up formation that did so well against Italy. Poor Kenny Miller's going to be knackered when he gets back to his club. I think we looked good with Miller playing behind O'Connor in the previous game and I think Beattie should go on in the 2nd half to fill the O'Connor role if the score's still 0-0.

Wee Jackie's making International Retirement noises, if we lose tonight he'll probably hang up his passport.

Quashie's availability is still doubtful with a couple of knocks. I never thought I'd say this but he's been a big loss when he's been taken off in the last couple of games (both games in which we threw results away shortly afterwards).

Big Carew's going to be a handful apparently. Good job Elvis is back eh?

In other news, Michael Owen shocks the world with his humility and team spirit:
"I'm confident of my position in the team and my value to it on
recent and past performances," he said.

"I don't think I'd be especially thankful if the manager played me.
I don't think I owe anyone any favours."

But he says he is not bothered who makes way for him.

* laughs bitterly *

For everything.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/4212920.stm

Kazakhstan 1 - 2 Greece FT
N Zhumaskaliev 53 | S Giannakopoulos 79, N Liberopoulos 90

Bookings:
G Seitaridis 28
I Avdeyev 33
N Khokhlov 38
O Litvinenko 45
A Karpovich 58
N Zhumaskaliev 81
P Kafes 89
Sent off:
A Karpovich 86
D Rodionov 90

Sounds like a good game!

http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/index/0,2548,All-Aug-2005,00.html

do not doubt the fifa rankings.

also yr under 17s beat england last week.

Still, this World Cup promises to be as unpredictable as most recent big tournaments have been due in part to the prevalent hoodoo regarding South American teams winning on European soil (even tho Braz and Arg look like they will be the two best/most effective teams in it by some way)...so if one of them were not to win it then who? I'm putting money on Germany purely due to home advantage (they still look decidedly average), can't see any other European team managing it, unless it's a dark dog under a horse ala Greece (who prob. won't qualify this time), but seems less likely given the extra 'round of sixteen' stage.

although we did demolish wales the other day

Also: Mexico has recently beaten Brazil handily, and we've beaten Mexico, so who knows WHAT will happen? (Other than Brazil magically whipping themselves into shape next summer, which always seems to happen just when everyone writes them off.)

I don't believe in or trust the FIFA ratings. Sorry I brought them up in the first place. Oh yeah I didn't.

Bring up 4-1 all you like, just look at our record in competetive matches.

Also, don't make me bring up Denmark 4-1.

Well you're right I suppose, friendlies clearly mean nothing!

Having said this, Brazil DID win the Confederations Cup, which doesn't usually happen anyway, in Germany this Summer. My only hope is that football ironing will endure as usual and their stronger side will fail where their weaker one did not - a team like the Czech Republic COULD knock them out early on if they got their act together and kept it that way...

the only problem with the "south americans never win the world cup in europe" line is that now the vast majority of them play over here, more than in 1998 probably, thus the "don't like it up 'em" argument holds less water...

Hey, I said "don't make me" bring it up, I didn't actually bring it up, you did! Haha! Yankee ingenuity!

Listen, I like the Brazilian team better than the U.S. team, and don't realistically expect that we will proceed very far at all in the WC, not really. But we're on a big fat roll right now, Landon Donovan and Beasley are on fire, and Brazil's team takes us about as seriously as we take beach volleyball, and we'd have a shot if we played RIGHT NOW, is all I'm saying.

and a higher aggregate from Holland and the Czechs vs Belgium and Croatia

Belarus.......1 - 0.......Italy.......L
V Kutuzov 4

Norway 0 Scotland 2

Why did we sell him again?

I was pretty agape at this. I can't believe that not only are we being beaten by a team that shouldn't be able to hold us to a few, but we haven't honestly deserved to win it either.