Presidential Debate: Round 2

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Already? Damn time zones, I'm so not getting sleep on Friday night here. This 'un had better be less sleep-inducing than the Veep one.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 7 October 2004 08:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Come anticipate Kill Bush with me.

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:31 (twenty-one years ago)

(That should of course read 'Come anticipate Kill Bush 2 with me'.)

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 7 October 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

My dear friend is getting married Fri. - 5;30 ceremony, 7:00 reception. The reception is swank, and I will be eating filet mignon, but I have to admit I'm sorta miffed that I have to miss the debate. Maybe it will be on in the lounge outside the reception hall. Is this absurd,to actually consider leaving a wedding reception to watch the debate?
Brooks from NYT said last night that, if Kerry wins this one, he wins the election.

― aimurchie, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I anticipate (that is, expect) that Dubya will say bad things and be cheered by bad people, and after if is over, more bad people will say that he is a great success and back on track for a resounding victory. Kerry will say some good things and get encouragement from some good people. But overall, irresponsible, foolish and bad people will conclude that Dubya is great and everyone likes him, and thus help to hasten the victory of very bad people, notably Dubya.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I will have to listen on the radio because of Friday night traffic, unless I can find a place to watch it in LA.

― youn, Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

there's no doubt in my mind that Bush will "win" this debate. The town hall style will put his folksy, glad-handling skills front and center.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

But still he'll have nothing to say. Hopefully, Kerry will come across as more personable in the more "folksy" setting.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

No way.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you are underestimating how badly Bush seems to handle unscripted questions.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you might in turn overestimate how 'unscripted' the questions and audience members will be!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha you think? I'm not so sure that sort of thing can be that controlled.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, what kind of screening procedure is this audience going to go through in the first place? Or are there any?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)

IS there any, I should say.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:36 (twenty-one years ago)

If it's all paid undecided voting actors whose spontaneous questions will be written on que cards, I'll be very disappointed.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned -- extensive. The audience is screened, the questions are screened, and lately even the moderators are screned.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-09-22-debates-rules_x.htm

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean you guys ARGUED and ARGUED and these ended up being the terms of the debate?!?!?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't Gibson say he wasn't signing anything?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

As long as Kerry keeps attacking Bush when he's answering questions it'll keep Bush off-script. The questions are known in advance, but candidate responses are not. If Kerry keeps swinging with every question, Bush might keep taking the bait. Kerry has much more ammo.

(xpost)

― Dale Panopticalis (cprek), Thursday, 7 October 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Im really impressed with the way the Kerry campaign has been running ever since the debate. Theyve held BC04's feet to the fire constantly and I really like their 'bush is out of touch' theme that theyre pushing, because it works like gangbusters. Its pretty funny how it is that the Kerry camp brings in the Clinton people, and theyre turning to the themes that busted the other Bush back in 92.

― still bevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 7 October 2004 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Frank Rich talks debates; kicks ass.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 7 October 2004 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

The questions are known in advance, but candidate responses are not.

the questions are known in advance???? I thought I read just the opposite! that is bullshit.

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

The opposite??? What, that the answers are known in advance but not the questions? Hmmm. Could be entertaining.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

you are a PEDANT Mr. San Francisco!

I meant that I thought the questions were unknown.

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

My prediction comes true - Kerry hits 50% in new AP poll

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

The opposite??? What, that the answers are known in advance but not the questions? Hmmm. Could be entertaining.

"Mr. President, is it true that you dangle loogies over your aides in between pounding beers and openly scratching your dangling nutsack?"

"Well, let me step back and review my thinking prior to going into Iraq. First, the lesson of September the 11th is, when this nation sees a threat, a gathering threat, we've got to deal with it. We can no longer hope that oceans protect us from harm. Every threat we must take seriously."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

can we have a moratorium on the use of 'folksy' when describing either candidate please?

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

George W. Bush is Bob Roberts.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned, ROFFLE.

Kyle, Sorry. Just trying to make funny.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Honestly with more and more people (especially younger folks) completely eschewing the landline for unlisted wireless service as their only telephone, can anybody imagine that phone polling is accurate? I think I only have one friend with a landline left. Not even my family has a regular phone anymore. I used this fact last night to make the point that Kerry has a huge mobilized base that nobody even knows about and that the record voter registration numbers are all in support of him (or really, support of whoever is running against that fucker and his fucker friends).

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

That's a good point. When they talk about "likely" voters, are they still using the criterion of someone who has voted in the past? Since the number of new registered voters this years is unprecedented in recent memory, are any of the pollsters trying to forecast what kind of an effect this is going to have, even allowing for the fact that not all of them are going to make it to the polls?

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

you are so right, tom. also, it is probably fair to say that more of the people who are willing to take the time to talk to pollsters on the phone are likely to be older retirees. nobody calls their grandparents enough, and they get lonely!

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 7 October 2004 16:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Tom, I've been arguing the same point over the past month along with other polling discrepancies. Kerry's election day victory will take the media by complete suprise and be known as the November Knockout.

― Dale Panopticalis (cprek), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

My gut feeling is that you're right, Dale. Remember: Gore won in 2000, and he didn't have half the stuff going in his favor that Kerry does now. Not even personality, astonishingly enough.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I hope Dubya's handlers have taught him a few more patient facial expressions. Wait, no I don't.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

TEH AUTUMN ANNIHILATION!!!!!!!!!!

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

The polling numbers are inaccurate and skewed to the right, certainly. Good. The close poll numbers, along with the insistence that this is a HUGE election (which it is) will keep people from not voting out of apathy.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:25 (twenty-one years ago)

You guys are going to carry Kentucky, right? Josh said he was gonna vote in VA because he has more of a chance of making a difference there. He thinks. I live in DC, my trip to the polls is mostly symbolic, like HERE'S SOME EXTRA FUCK YOU TO GO WITH THAT FUCK YOU, ASSHOLES, GET OUT OF MY TOWN.

I did hear that the Kerry campaign workers in KY decided to go work Ohio though.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:50 (twenty-one years ago)

It is nice to see Kerry backers being positive and optimistic.

I have a land line. So did many folk I know. But I don't think mine is 'listed' - perhaps that is key in what is being said.

I don't have a mobile phone. Do pollsters call mobile phones?

I enjoyed Gabneb's link saying that Kerry was doing well.

I agree that people should not call W. 'folksy', when in fact he is vicious and bad.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry campaign workers in KY

Ew.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush and Kerry don't know what the questions will be.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:58 (twenty-one years ago)

An unscientific bumper sticker poll shows that Kerry is certainly favored in Lexington. We're probably going to Bush, but we might be suprised by the Eastern Kentucky die-hard conservative dixiecrat Dems: The little old ladies whose families have always voted Dem. "I just go in there and pull the Dem lever. And that's all I'll ever do, screw those damn republican yankees."

― Dale Panopticalis (cprek), Thursday, 7 October 2004 17:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree that people should not call W. 'folksy', when in fact he is vicious and bad.

By now, I think of folksy as an insult. Reagan changed the meaning forever.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

KY is a an extremely "red" state. The county that we live in (fayette) may go kerry though, and they are expecting about 70% voter turnout. but i highly doubt a win here is possible.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

substitute 'reagan' for 'four tet' and you are otm (xpost)

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:01 (twenty-one years ago)

With Kentucky, the majority of the Bush votes will more than likely come from Xtian fundies making sure no mens will be marrying no box turtles like that Massachusettes friend-of-the-"gays" would have things, and, judging by the support shown statewide for the marriage-will-only-be-between-a-man-and-woman constitutional amendment on the block in November, that might be just a large enough number of votes to worry about.

xpost with my friend emily who some guy once assumed was a republican because her t-shirt had an elephant on it or something

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

i really had a craving for the taste of his blood, nick.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that was that same guy who asked Nancy if she had "hit that" with regards to gay-ass Greg. "Brooke" ha ha.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:08 (twenty-one years ago)

you are so right, it was! he was a real charmer, alright.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:09 (twenty-one years ago)

KY is a an extremely "red" state

There's no way Kerry will win it (probably in the low 40%s), but, and while it's the Southern exception, it's worth noting that there are more registered Democrats in the state than Republicans.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush makes his election night concession phonecall to Kerry.

http://www.setel.com/~ccprek/pics/bushphone.jpg

"It looks like you whupped me. Have fun cleaning up my mess for the next four years. Hello? HELLO?"

― Dale Panopticalis (cprek), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

democrat does not = liberal in ky.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

It is queer how, for you, red means right and blue means left.

― the bluefox, Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I read bellefox's post about w being "vicious and bad" as w being "vicious in bed"

― still bevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

democrat does not = liberal in ky.

*insert 500 "Gear's roommate was a Republican!" jokes here*

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

It is queer how, for you, red means right and blue means left.

I agree. I imagine that it stems from Dems insistance on NOT being called 'red'.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

When did that "red=GOP, blue=Democrat" thing enter the lexicon? I'm thinking it started with the 2000 election night TV news coverage.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

No, it has everything to do with the maps that TV networks used in 2000. (I'm not sure why ALL of them used the same color scheme, though.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost)

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i think they used to switch off which states are which every year, except in 2000, the state colors really stuck in popular consciousness. and it makes a lot of sense to me given which party is friendlier with China, despite their original intent to claim otherwise.

democrat does not = liberal in ky.

this is what i meant by the Southern exception. and democrat /= liberal for many people in purple and blue states. also, Clinton won it twice with Perot and Bush 1's help.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i didn't realize the colours thing was that new!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a brave new world.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

"but i highly doubt a win here is possible."

I thought it was interesting that Fletcher won the election, yet lost the vote tally in his congressional district to Chandler in the governor's election last year. His own constituents voted against him. The election would have been much closer if it wasn't for Patton being such a sleaze.

I've come to picture KY with being politically similar to rural Missouri, southern ILL and IN, which are filled with former Democrats who jumped ship starting because of racial politics and stayed on board for the anger and spite.

― Earl Nash (earlnash), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Love the main image on CNN.com right now:

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/07/wmd.iraq/top.saddam.bush.kerry.jpg

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

"Uuuse the force, George..."

― n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Good news from the latest Zogby poll btw.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-battleground04-an1006.html?mod=home_inside_today_us

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

According to that, the Dems lead in electoral votes 322-218.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Thursday, 7 October 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

just like clockwork

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:33 (twenty-one years ago)

And yet...things have been getting steadily (and every so slightly) more gloomy for Kerry in the Rasmussen state-by-state poll: NJ, MD, MI and MN dropping, a day apart it seemed, from Blue to too-close-to-call and, today, FL moving back out of the grey zone to Red with a solid 5pt lead for Bush. So they have it B/C 240-169 K/E with 129 up for grabs. Some of those numbers may still be based on pre-debate stats.

Funny, Zogby don't even consider New Jersey or Maryland battleground states. (Nor should they be).

Debate Two is on domestic issues and I've have thought dark mutterings about Homeland Security and the impact of 9/11 are just about the only things GWB could've come up with to defend his shocking economic record but after the Debate One beating, will he even try? This is a great opportunity for Kerry to go effectively dormie.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

the latest Rasmussens I see in all of those states are pre-first debate. Kerry is rising in just about every national and state poll

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:54 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)I'm pretty sure that any poll which shows Kerry losing ground is based on either old data or on a totally faulty sample group. Every legit poll has Kerry making pretty significant gains and Bush losing points daily in public confidence.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 7 October 2004 20:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, you're probably both right. I'll give Rasmussen about a week to catch up across the board (the slide centrewards of those eastern states was reported by Ras either side of the debate meaning they were probably late-Sept figures).

I understand that Zogby leans leftwards in its figures? Even so, what it's reporting as happening in Ohio is remarkable - a five-point lead for Bush in the wake of Dem Conv in August (when Kerry was doing as well as possible everywhere else) has been completely reversed apparently. OH! It's Kerry is the headline I want to see Nov 3.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Someone please explain to me the logic of news programs filling their hours by pitting party strategists against each other. It's just propaganda spew overkill. What's the point?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:30 (twenty-one years ago)

It's just like the Python "Argument" sketch.....only not at all funny.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Simians are mesmerized by conflict.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 7 October 2004 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

no, Kentucky was a Democratic state (both in local/state elections and federal elections) for years after integration and school busing. It's only recently titled Republican enough to the point where Fletcher is the first GOP governor in like 100 years or something.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 7 October 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

no low is too low

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 8 October 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

School officials in Fort Myers, Fla.; Salem, Ore.; Gray, Ga.; Birch Run, Mich.; two towns in New Jersey; and two towns in California have been told to increase security in light of the discovery.

whoa. Is the GOP scared they'll lose Georgia (highly unlikely)?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 8 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Someone please explain to me the logic of news programs filling their hours by pitting party strategists against each other. It's just propaganda spew overkill. What's the point?

well, when you have 3+ 24-hour news channels, you gotta fill it with SOMEthing.

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Friday, 8 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Call me an optimist, but I don't think W is going to win this thing. I really don't. The war is an appalling mess, and he's not going to change that in the next month. Nor is he going to suddenly and mysteriously catch Osama bin Laden as an October Surprise. That's giving these people way too much credit (or discredit, as your logic may lean). They are not master conspirators, they're predominantly businessmen, and the political house of cards they have built for themselves is as fragile as any corporation, which is to say, built on speculation and investment and little else. Many Americans are deeply emotionally invested in Bush, it's true, and many Americans vote on abortion above all other issues. They are far from being a majority.

I feel like predicting a Bush win at this point, at least from ILXors, is cynicism and maybe devils-advocation. The man has done a terrible job in just about every way a President can do a terrible job. The economy is in the fucking toilet, and it's very hard to argue that it's Clinton's fault, seeing as how Bush has instituted tax laws that are limp at best and destructive at worst. If Clinton's policies were so bad, why didn't he fix them? His ace in the hole, his war, was not only based on nothing, it is coming to no good. His policies are ruinous in a general way, and I think most people know it. The media, for all its flaws, has not been able to not accurately report how bad he is faring.

Clinton was a popular President, and it may only be because of conservative rhetoric that we forget that. Clinton may very well have won a third term had he been allowed to run. Gore's biggest campaign mistake was to over-estimate how much people disliked Clinton, and to try to distance himself from him. His other campaign mistake, of course, was to have nothing interesting or valuable to say whatsoever. He was an ill-informed, ill-prepared wuss who blew his golden opportunity, and he damn near deserved to lose. Not that I would wish Bush on the world if I had it to do all over again, but still.

Bush does not even have the advantage of being the person that conservatives voted for in 2000. He has pissed everyone off almost every step of the way, and the people who still support him (poor John McCain!) look like bigger suckers than they ever thought they would. Or at least, they will in ten years. Especially after this election.

This Election Day will be some big shit, no doubt about it. Everyone of political shade and physical color will at least attempt to vote, and the count will take longer than we're used to, and the results will kepp us up even farther into the night than they did in 2000.

But Kerry will win this. As someone said, he has too much ammo. He has much of the political team that elected Clinton. He has the best coaches, the best thinkers, and the best strategists that Democratic money can buy. And more than that, he has an opponent who has done nothing but suck suck SUCK for the last almost-four years. I say that while doing my damndest to not color my opinion with predisposed politics. I'm a Democrat, but I can see how anyone who isn't a dedicated Republican could vote for Bush. And the dedicated -- *dedicated*, mind you, meaning the very rich -- Republicans out there are not enough to win an election.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Friday, 8 October 2004 04:51 (twenty-one years ago)

They are not master conspirators, they're predominantly businessmen,

no, they have many roots in the intelligence community. but yes, Kerry will win.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 8 October 2004 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

but I can see how anyone = but I CAN'T see how anyone

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Friday, 8 October 2004 04:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm a Democrat, but I can see how anyone who isn't a dedicated Republican could vote for Bush.

I don't see how dedicated Republicans could vote for him.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 8 October 2004 05:05 (twenty-one years ago)

They are not master conspirators, they're predominantly businessmen,

no, they have many roots in the intelligence community.

HA!

I have *way* more faith in corporations to predict what I'll do next than I do in intelligence to predict what terrorists will do next.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Friday, 8 October 2004 05:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't see how dedicated Republicans could vote for him.

That way a typo. I corrected it.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Friday, 8 October 2004 05:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, wait.. I see. You considered that already.

PLease elaborate, then.

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Friday, 8 October 2004 05:11 (twenty-one years ago)

no, I was making the point that I honestly don't see how dedicated Republicans could vote for him. He's done major damage to the party's ideals, as have most candidates beholden to the conservative christian agenda.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 8 October 2004 05:12 (twenty-one years ago)

the results will kepp us up even farther into the night than they did in 2000

Three or four weeks into the night? God, I hope not.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Friday, 8 October 2004 06:42 (twenty-one years ago)

gon' be a lonnnnnng winter

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Friday, 8 October 2004 09:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it depends on how many of those Diebold voting machines go BSOD/Belly Up.
Especially in Florida.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 8 October 2004 11:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Why has Kerry ditched the middle initial? Wasn't he always known as John F Kerry before he became a presidential candidate?
Did his advisors tell him that the JFK comparison would be unfavourable? Would it?

I only ask because I spotted an old bloke in Glasgow sporting an "America needs another JFK: Vote Kerry" badge and it struck me as being a fairly effective hook.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 8 October 2004 13:06 (twenty-one years ago)

surely it's *dreadful* idea...

...whatever else he is, he's no JFK...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 8 October 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

after some post-republican convention fears that bush was going to pull off a win, I'm back to thinking that Kerry has this in the bag. I not only predict a win, I predict a landslide.

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 8 October 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

JFK was no JFK.

― Dan I., Friday, 8 October 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

haha

the new Daily Show book has an info table on that.

Most Kennedy-esque Presidents:
1. Bill Clinton
2. Teddy Roosevelt
3. John F. Kennedy

― Gold Teeth II (kenan), Friday, 8 October 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Does anyone know whether tonight's debate is going to be shown on UK TV?

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 8 October 2004 17:33 (twenty-one years ago)

It doesn't look like it is from the listings. Why not? Is it on Sky?

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 8 October 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Could it be part of BBC News 24?

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 8 October 2004 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Dunno. Bump.

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Oooh. I just realized that I'll be in a room with a television and a computer tonight!

Well. I'm excited.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

My computer will be my tv, so that means lots of flicking between windows to see what people are saying here. Is there a keyboard shortcut for that?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I would've thought it'd be on news 24. Shame I'm too tired to stay up.

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Aye, to be shown at 2 it seems on BBC1; I will be watching, kept awake by some tea or coffee, and hopefully further Bush unravelling. ;)
It's going to take rather a lot for him to stop the momentum continuing the way it has being going. The media will hardly be able to get away with saying Bush has won if he is merely more coherent and a little more affable than in the first debate. He needs a miraculous performance, I feel, and one that must be beyond him - burdened as he is by an appalling record.

― Tom May (Tom May), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:43 (twenty-one years ago)

"no, I was making the point that I honestly don't see how dedicated Republicans could vote for him. He's done major damage to the party's ideals, as have most candidates beholden to the conservative christian agenda."

you must mean "dedicated conservatives", which is a differnt beast altogether - but half of them can vote for him because they're mindless zombies. the other half are probably in a position analogous to dedicated liberals in 2000 (except with genuine discontent, instead of ennui, as the dominant response to the status quo), so most've them (from my experience) are abstaining, or voting for libertarian-dude or even kerry. or just saying fuck it and throwing in their lot with bush anyway.

― John (jdahlem), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

What question would you ask Bush or Kerry?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Or not. I was trying to kill some time.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

BBC World and CNN Intl. have it.

Teresa is even more like Jackie than Jackie was.

xpost, well what would YOU ask them?

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

It's on...

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 8 October 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Moderator's pretty keen on himself.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

hopefully this will be more interesting that the vp debate which i caught the last half hour of and which was utterly boring.

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost, well what would YOU ask them?

Yeah, nothing really. Not that ay of us are undecided enough anyway...

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

LET THE AWKWARDNESS....BEGIN!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

It's gonna be a fake charm battle!

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

wmd - take a drink!

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Iraq already invoked. I thought this was domestic issues day!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Wishy Washy Flippy Floppy. Wasn't that a Talking Heads tune?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

The jaw! Bush was clenching his jaw again! He's been medicated!

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

That 87 billion cited again.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

The jaw! Bush was clenching his jaw again! He's been medicated!

i've always wondered about that

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I imagine they'll both have been given beta-blockers...

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush is not off to a rollicking start.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I bet George has been running and skidding on his knees on that carpet.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

"9/11 changed it all!"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

wmd^6

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush on the ropes already.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"we all thought there were weapons there"

that's just classic

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh please: 'I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein.'

Unique, hmm.

― suzy (suzy), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

there were weapons, George, not 'was'.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh dear, we have a Bush in stand-up mode; expect jokes and 'folksiness'. But can any of that wash now? Worst record on jobs since Hoover; the day-to-day situation in Iraq... Bush does not have the issues or events on his side.

― Tom May (Tom May), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

From WMD's to Saddam [hearts] Osama to he was hijacking food shipments.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry is just a better, more engaging, more eloquent speaker. Simple as that.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"global test" invoked.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i like the red carpet.

the sanctions were working! wtf

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i like how this is getting nasty right away

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

George laughing nervously.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

good rebuttal from Kerry.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry is being a hard-ass tonight.

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry is positively moshing all over George at the moment.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

nice visual alex..

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

America needs to punish that swagger with the sanction of voting against it.

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm unna .."

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Damn I thought Kerry was gonna slam the mic down a la Rakim.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"We're gunna"

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush has never looked more like a televangelist.

― Smokin' funk by the boxes (kenan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

George looking better tonight, but he's still getting his ass kicked right now.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush still not understanding the meaning of the "wrong war, wrong time, wrong place" comment.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

"i know how these people think"

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I know how these people think, etc etc etc

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

"we're gonna make elections!"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush gettin' pissed off.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

"I have no plan, actually."

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"we're gonna make elections!" reminds me of that Simpsons episode, with lisa in the essay contest - mix one part freedom of speech etc.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

roffle!

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

TORA BORA

― kephm, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Tora Bora: sounds more fun that it is.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

"sometimes in this world you make unpopular decisions because you think that they're right."

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

On my wishlist: "See, George here doesn't do his homework. He's been *consistent* in that regard ever since Yale."

― suzy (suzy), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

uh huh

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost with alex

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

"I've made a lot of unpopular decisions. That's what democracy is all about... not listening to popular opinion."

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

with suzy actually...ugh

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

"The broke got promised" - kerry. ooops.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

He's not even listening to you now!

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyone who clenches their jaw and licks their lips like that is definitely on something.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush farming off blame on his generals. Fuckin' asshole. YOU'RE THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF, YOU MONKEY!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

ouch! military/prez war/peace. fuck yeah.

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

re: "wrong war, wrong time, wrong place"

Bush would have been better as a Texas Sheriff in the 19th Century, not an American leader in the 21st century in the White House.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

this iran question is a good one

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

bush thinks he's kicking azz

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

[foreshadowing]
BUSH: Iran? Hell, I'll invade their ass too!

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush trying to look calm as Kerry reads laundry list of other nations proliferating nuclear arsenals.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush looks like he's about to snap.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

did you see that bush wink?

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry is playing it extremely smart by playing up the threat to America card and blaming it on the actions of the current administration.

and "we've got to lead the world", very good indeed.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

He's twitching now.

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"That answer almost made me wanna scowl"......

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Makes me wanna scowl!
*crickets*

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"that answer almost made me want to scowl"????

like a sulky kid!

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

jesus it's bleak this guy is actually president.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"That answer almost made me want to scowl!" Oh g'wan George, you card you. You're crackin' me up.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"naive and dangerous"

classique!

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i guess the phrase "naive and dangerous" tested well with focus groups

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I did not have bilateral relations with that country!

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

raised voice from Bush there, it was quite effective.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

"tha Yoonited States"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

THE INNERNETS!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

The internets?

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

He's bitching out the audience. They're going to turn on him. (blood invoked, hopefully.)

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush just isn't articulate. I didn't see the last debate, but Bush isn't articulate, he just seems, honestly, and it's a terribly overused analogy, but really, like a kid in an argument with his parents.

x-post with BUSH "rumours on the 'INTERNET'"

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Internets. Hahahahaha

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

lmao

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"Yeah great question, asshole, yeah. I been hearing things on the Intarnets."

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

internets?

there is more than 1?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

The Internets?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

dammit, Alex... That's twice you've beat me.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Transform our military -- y'see they're robots in disguise!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

wtf, the soviet union????

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

The woman who asked about Iran is a close family friend of ours.

― bnw (bnw), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Invade into???!!

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush should complete each sentence with, "you fucking idiots!" Try it, it's very natural.

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Somehow I doubt much talk about the draft is currently going on here.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

unmaned VEEEhiccles.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"veeeee-HICK-les"

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

So far here Bush not doing so well. He's impatient and awfully frustrated, kind of like a PR guy giving the same answer at a press release for the fiftieth time in a row.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i want bush to start riffing on something freaky like robot troops. we're going to put robot troops into europe and they'll kick your ass

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Can't wait to hear Kerry's "draft" answer.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

facile??!!

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I need to be more facile

― tremendoid, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost) Ooh, he said facile.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry suavely rattling off hard-to-pronounce names.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush is seething with contempt.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

i like how he directly addresses bush

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

president reagan invoked by kerry!

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

SEETHING, I tell you.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush going nuts!

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

WOOH!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

POLAND!

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush is losing it!!!! OMG Kerry kicked his ASS on the draft question

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

SERVIO BELLUSCONI!!!!!

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

FITE!

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

And don't forget 'nuclear' pronounced correctly, which communicates more about W's lack of iintelligence than saying he's stupid ever did.

― suzy (suzy), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Some of these shots are framed like a music video.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

"countries are LEAVING the coalition, not joining it."

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I hate to admit it but the smirking bastard's going to get a bounce from this if he can keep it up, at least he's not standing slack-jawed and lost like last time... he's doing the tough guy thing and morans will eat it up

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Missouri statistic !

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

This woman's a Bushie.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

How can someone so desperately immature be president. look at the guy! jesus I should go to bed, it's so depressing.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:31 (twenty-one years ago)

i can't believe how much these guys say "um"

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:31 (twenty-one years ago)

'intelligence'

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

bbbut alex, they're all undecided!

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Intelligence.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

If Bush wins after displays like this, we should all move to New Zealand and start an independent commune.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's coming off just ever so slightly condescending.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

They're soft supporters.

She does seem kinda soft.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry using the ever-dreaded "homeland" over "country" = dud.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

It's hard not to be condescending when you're debating a slackjawed chimpanzee with autism.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Bushie looks confused

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

http://img56.exs.cx/img56/579/internets.jpg

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, I think he was condescending with her.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

If Iraq were to fail, it would be a haven for terrorists?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

MATH COWARD!!!!Why shouldn't we be right 110% of the time.

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush's aggression is coming across slightly better now, in terms of the whole bullshit fear show the whole thing appears to be.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

If Kerry is condescending, then tell me what Bush is. Seriously.

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

that's right, a haven for terrorists, please be sure to scare the public some more. what about oklahoma city?

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

WAR IS A LONG WAR

― Possum Slimm (Possumslimm), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

"this war... is a long, long war."

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

'a long long war'

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh and you READ the Internet, you don't LISTEN to it, as such.

― suzy (suzy), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.sd455.com/movielongtrailer.jpg

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

they're still "working hard" and "trying hard"

somebody ought to make up a drinking game for the next debate

wrong war wrong time... = a shot...

kerry's "hunt down & kill" = a shot...

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush seems to be worried.

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Poland GROM [Special forces] are apparently amongst the best trained special forces in the world.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm worried about our country". Heh, you are?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm worried, I'm worried, I'm worried."

Be worried!

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I like that I can't see the stoplight anymore.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

we're all worried George. Thanks for working weekends .. hard work, etc

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

the drinking game has started over here.

― cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

did someone say TAX CUT FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS?! well the interesting thing about that...

― tremendoid, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Canada = 3rd world

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Canadian drugs are gonna kill ya, folks!

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Personal anecdote. Wanda Blackmore buyin' drugs.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"$10 worth of drugs"!

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"these cards make sense!"

because?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

MEDISCARE

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't usually like to make fun of accents, but "Mizurah"?

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"they have to be lucky once, we have to be lucky all the time"=one shot, actually no, perhaps a small swig of beer.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"mediscare!"
**crickets**

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

did he just say "Mediscare"?

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Canadian Medical Terrorists!!!!!

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

MEDISCURRED IDEAR

― cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

haha i knew someone would pick up on that...but sorry, people in missouruh say missouruh

― g--ff (gcannon), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, Kerry's watching this forum, he picked up on the third world Canada idea.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't usually like to make fun of accents, but "Mizurah"?

That's what Missourans say.

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry kickin' some ass on the medicare tip.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

kerry is pwning

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

CLINTON DID IT

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Wanda Blackmore buyin' drugs.

For a second I thought that was the woman from Wanda Does It

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

"IT WASN'T JUST MY ADMINISTRATION!!!"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah. evidently people from texas do to.
okay okay okay

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha, he just played the "it was like that when I got here" card again.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, you just got 1997'd!

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

"show me one accomplishment on medicare that he accomplished"

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Canadians are not safe, not to trusted: Why hasn't Bush put an embargo on Alanis?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

onto the budget. slAP!

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

"We did something you don't know how to do -- we balanced the budget!"

BOW DOWN!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush is seriously winking at people.
???? is he trying to win the votes of the people by trying to pick them up?

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I want a fix too.

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

referencing websites during debates = dud

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

"I believe we will be able to get a fix, it's in my healthcare proposal"

hmm, haha x-post, send it to my veins

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

referencing websites during debates = dud

OTM

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

So, he's got plans.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

"I posted it on the internets!"

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

"Where to start here?"

That sounded familiar.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush is getting exasperated. "He's the most liberal senator of all!"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

"hard work"

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

wow, i'm doing victory dances here

― Symplistic (shmuel), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

hard work joke .. *crickets**

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Senator Kennedy, wtf?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't tell: does Charlie Gibson keep trying to ask follow up questions, and getting cut off? Or has he just given up on that approach?

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

'that's saying something. that bunch'

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

And we all know that liberal is BAD.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

bobby hill

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

"award"

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

LIBERAL LIBERAL LIBERAL

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

bush has some nerve talking about an increase in the size of gov't.

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"That's what liberals do! They eat babies and strangle puppies!"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

this bashing of "liberals" is astonishing.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG this health care issue is pissing me off. Somebody please give me some health care. Please?

― Smokin' funk by the boxes (kenan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

And did he just call him Kennedy? "Mr President, I'm no Kennedy."

― suzy (suzy), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, there we go. Follow up question. Kerry listens.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

oh fucking well done Kerry, "trying to scare", COME ON!

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"Compassionate Conservative? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?"

TAKE THAT, BITCH!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"... cuz the trial lawyers. won't act on it."

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush is having a hard to keepin' his cool now.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:46 (twenty-one years ago)

This is more entertaining than the last one. W is on steriods tonight.

― Smokin' funk by the boxes (kenan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:46 (twenty-one years ago)

if Kerry is most liberal, who is the most neo-con right wing republican senator in the US?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, yeah! Bring on TEH SPENDING!!!! You liberal prez, you!

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush sounds like a child on the playground who's not getting his way.

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

"YOU'RE BATTING 0 FOR 2!"

― carson dial (carson dial), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Can we just start calling the US "Das Heimat" and get it over with?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't really understand the Bush answer to the trial lawyers thing? Why does he hate them, if he's against "government-sponsored healthcare"?

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

these undecided voters are pretty decidedly pissed off at one or the other

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

What would've put the topping on the cake is if Bush referenced the website where we could all look at the budget he proposed.

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha bush is concerned about "costing this economy jobs"

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush sounds like a child on the playground who's not getting his way.

Onn Tha Fuckang Monay!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:49 (twenty-one years ago)

www.idonotknowwhatthefuckiamtalkingabout.com

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:50 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

Just dorky lawyer-bashing as both are lawyers. You have to get much better grades than Bush ever copped, and have a much longer attention span, to be a lawyer. (Yo Tad!)

― suzy (suzy), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:50 (twenty-one years ago)

moderator otm

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I AM! Er, wait.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

"stock market correction" = recession

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I d'int do it!

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Easily the most whiny President in my lifetime.

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

God, he's still going on that 'before I got here' thing.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

"THE STOCK MARKET WAS DECLINING SIX MONTHS BEFORE I CAME INTO OFFICE!"

Everything is someone else's fault.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

both are using the phrase "the _____est in history". hmmm. who was first?

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

"don't blame me, i voted for kodos"

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

ENRON! Boo Ya!

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:52 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.wellcoolstuff.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/z7.jpg

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry has to stop saying "ladies and gentlemen."

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:52 (twenty-one years ago)

"simple and unequivocal language"?

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Right into the camera.....this is never a good plan.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:52 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.hondosbar.com/Kang__Kodos.gif

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I think he accidentally found himself facing the camera, and decided to go with it.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

"ladies and gentlemen"

AAAA!!!

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

You're so utterly OTM about the "ladies and gentlemen"

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

excuse my ignorance, but is it fair to say the question's Kerry is being asked are far more tricky or at least animated "would you be prepared to look into the camera" etc?

if so is there a reason for this, geographically or something?

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

yankee in mizourrah

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush: "Kerry is a dirty liar. There! I'm out."

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush's voice just exudes whiney panic.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

fiscally conservative = biggest strawman ever

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Charlie thought that one was funny. and i think the WORLD DID TOO

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush's use of the word "he" consistently is very poor.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

It's the one phrase of Kerry's that seems really, really condescending.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

battling green eyeshades!

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

"Battling green eye shades"
*** crickets ****

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

"is my time up yet?"

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

battling green eyeshades!

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Nothing to say. That was embarassing.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

bush is just exuding professionality right now. exuding it.

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"keep" the economy growing

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Three more weeks, mr. president.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Kerry is kicking ass.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

kerry mentions john mccain = all drink

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"you can run, but you can't hide."
*** crickets ***

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

The man running for the president.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

ah fuck "liberal liberal liberal"

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

"these aren't maked-up figgers!"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

One minute Bush calls Kerry 'liberal' and the next he's calling him 'fiscally conservative'.

Flip flip, etc.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

If you took a shot for every time Bush made a bad joke this debate so far, you'd be dead. "you can run, but you can't hide"

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

This is just getting petulant. But I can't watch the Yanks-Twins game any more, so I'm stuck here, now.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, the environment.

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Who gives a shit about reducing DIESEL emissions?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I think these questions have been fucking TERRIBLE for Bush. He's being as honest as possible and the truth just doesn't fucking cut it.

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

kerry should say read my lips: 3 more weeks ! not 4 more years

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

"plan to increase the wetlands by three million..."

...

What does he even MEAN by this?!

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

"to help improve, uh, wildlife, uh, in the habitat"

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

"Running for the President" was classic.

Also, yeah, "he" is getting really annoying.

Eric, what's the score?

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

inner city...... sore spots??

― phil-two (phil-two), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

trees?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

(Sure are a lotta white folks there tonight.)

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Does he understand that forest fires to a certain extent are a GOOD thing?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

"plan to increase the wetlands by three million..."
...

What does he even MEAN by this?!
don't clean up florida after the hurricanes

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

hi phil!

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

"Lousy federal policy" You're the president!

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

tenderboxes?

― cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

5-1 Yanks... maybe worse. They've switched pitchers.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

(Fat people, too.)

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"I really think what's gonna happen over time is technology is gonna change the way we live"

yeah you fucking genius.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

That guy doesn't look like he believes him.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm a good steward of the land" just got me bursting out in laughter.

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"Steward of the land" Genesis reference.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"i'm a good steward of the land." what a crock of shit.

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes but what are their thoughts on spanking?

(Thank you, Eric.)

― Borats of Kazakhstan (Andy K), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

He always says "thanks for your question" after getting questions he hates.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm a good steward of the land!"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't get the Red Sox allusion.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Namecheck Orwell

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

it's okay to live in a world of non-reality if you're a red sox fan because the red sox SUX

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

that's a genesis reference? woah.

kerry is unequivocally kicking bush's ass.

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sorry. 7-1. OUT OF CONTROL!!!

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, there should be a drinking game rule about "in history"

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry just gave him this look at the "lousy federal policy" bit, like, "mate, seriously, what /is/ this?"

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

It's so easy to pick apart HOW someone says something rather than WHAT they are saying. Is that really all you guys got?

Most of you need to grow up. He's no orator. Not much of a president either, I grant you. But you're not making Kerry look any better in my eyes. And neither is this debate.

www.badnarik.org

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

SCIENCE!

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Kyoto Treaty invokation.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, and the "ladies and gentlemen" score has to be 12-0 Kerry.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:01 (twenty-one years ago)

"Ever since the dawning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun!'

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's good at remembering the names of earlier audience members.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:02 (twenty-one years ago)

LESBIAN ALERT!

― hardworking blue-collar, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Hang on, did Kerry just say he wouldn't sign Kyoto?

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think so

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

But you're not making Kerry look any better in my eyes. And neither is this debate.

What. EVAH!

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Roger...your candidate is an idiot, and you just hate it being exposed to the world.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

this debate is making Kerry look better, he's composed and not throwing around bullshit stereotypes like "you damn liberals!"

admittedly it's a bleak affair in itself but if you support that sort of nonsense then I'd love to hear justification.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's good at remembering the names of earlier audience members.

Yeah, that was good.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"Ever since the dawning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun!'

with technology!

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry taking "No Child Left Behind" ball.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not your eyes that matter. Nor is it, admittedly, most of the rest of this forum's.

Which is why I'm seriously pissed off by Kerry's use of "ladies and gentlemen." It won't play well.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

i haven't even noticed it

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Incent You?????

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Tort reform will not minimize cost of healthcare significantly, methinks.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

who is robert rubin? who the fuck cares what the beastie boys producer thinks?

(that was a joke)

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

"Ladies and gentlemen" is annoying, but i don't think the general public would be annoyed enough to change their views on him.

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

An energy plan to prevent outsourcing?

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Ladies and Gentlemen is the polite way to address a crowd. It might seem a bit namby pamby to the electorate though.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

"ladies and gentlemen."

simple-minded country folk hate to be addressed politely.

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

question: say someone earning $ 40,000 a year in the US, how much would typical health care insurance cost? in 2004.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

"Dudez and Dudettez"

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

What's wrong with "ladies & gentlemen"?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Can we please have a president that speaks English??? Please???

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

where I think perhaps Kerry was suffering was being a bit more nervous for a time earlier on in the debate. Bush is certainly more on the offensive, this time around.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Folkz

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I like Kerry's smile and nod when he disagrees.

― Maria D. (Maria D.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

whoa SOMEONE research the timber company!

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

"need some wood?"

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

WHAT?

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

need some wood?

― hardworking blue-collar, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Oops, fact discrepency. But who's?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

"That's naaous ta maaay."

Seriously hickville.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Oops, fact discrep

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

N*ggaz 'n' n*gg*tt*s would clearly be much better.

― Borats of Kazakhstan (Andy K), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Tomorrow's news item: "TIMBERGATE!"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

y0 bitchez

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

"Need some wood?"

Why President Bush, I thought never ask? *Flutters*

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

goddamn citizens of the US, you cannot read your own questions

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

george mentions a real ordinary american with a real ordinary american name = all drink

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"I appreciate that" = "fuck you for asking, dickhead"

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Best Saturday Night Live ever.

(Oh, it's Friday. Nevermind.)

― Borats of Kazakhstan (Andy K), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"You'd never" Please add.

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

What's wrong with "ladies & gentlemen"?

Nothing, aside from that they're the siren call of a snake oil salesman.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Guard my liberties by putting them in prison Mr. President, please.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"um, i'm sorry. the patriot acts sucks. i rescind it all."

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

lackawanna? hummanna hummana wha?

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"they could not perform their doody"

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i hate "folks"

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

oh duh, bush would never use the word "rescind"

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Pres. said 'doody'.

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I hate "folks" misanthrope

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Goddamn, this debate is getting HOTTT.

*whips it out*

― hardworking blue-collar, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Going to one of the other internets. BRB.

― Borats of Kazakhstan (Andy K), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Michael J. Fox invoked.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Does Charlie Gibson have Parkinsons, btw?

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

"Superman supports me. Please vote Kerry. Thank you."

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

dem candidate invokes alex p keaton & nancy reagan, who woulda thunk it

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Christopher Reeve invoked....

HOLLYWOOD LIBERAL CRIPPLE ALERT

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's kinda booting the stem-cell question.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember an episode of Family Ties where Micheal J Fox was reading a book to the young kid which was entitled "We Are Republicans".

That's the only episode I can ever recall actually.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

kerry is fumbling a bit now

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

"some kinda of . . o f. . . . of. .. . cripple thing"

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

OK they're talking about stem cells now, so i know kerry'll hammer it. i can leave now.

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

"your morality" poor choice of words

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Are people not allowed to clap?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I also still have the image of Christopher Reeve sucking the juice out of fetuses on South Park. MMMMMMMMMMMM!!!

― lemin (lemin), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Right now, Evangelicals are paying close attention.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"Talkin' about walkin' a waffle line!"

Kerry is cookin'.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

evangelicals have already made their decision.

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Is support for stem cell research considered lefty in the US? Because I think I would categorise it as the reverse in the UK.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

"I had to make the decision to continue to destroy life."

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

bush is repeating himself

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

it's lefty in the states, yes

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"I had to make the decision to continue to destroy life."

This is my new mantra.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that objectively Kerry really whiffed on the stem cell research bit.

Thank God Bush is misjudging the timeliness of Supreme Court justice "humor."

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Is he namechecking Dred Scott?

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

More "if you could be any popstar, who would you be?" type questions!

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Dredd Scott invoked

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

what the fuck is bush talking about?

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

What the hell?!?! That Dred Scott thing was crazy?!?! What's he talking about?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush hanging himself talking about supreme court pick.

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously. Both of them seem to be getting really really tired at this point.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

what the hell is bush talking about right now?

haha, xpost

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

What about those opinionated judeges who freed the descendants of Dred Scott?

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

He's going to abolish slavery! Awesome!

― Smokin' funk by the boxes (kenan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

"leh-jes-lay-TORES"

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

black people shouldn't be slave. please vote Bush. thank you.

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Boy, that jaw got a real workout during the Supreme Court question...

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Judge Dredd invoked.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Phew, Bush is anti slavery. That'll get him some votes.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I hope the last question will be a funny, like on Question Time in the UK, where everybody poltely laughs and no-one gives an interesting answer.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

JEW INVOKED. DRINK.

― cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.grovel.org.uk/reviews/judged01/judged04.gif

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush: "I AM THE LAW"

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry doesn't want the slaves freed.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

HELLO BLONDIE.

― cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Uh-oh. Another question that Kerry will have to respect for "morality."

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I've got "this friend" who hates abortion...

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Religion religion religion.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, you cannot legislate faith. nice one kerry

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

"Atheist...Agnostic...Jew?"

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

"I can't legislate morality."

What fundies here: "I can't endorse morality."

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

"abstinence" ewwwwww

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

hear!

Please let this debate not end on gay marriage!

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

He's floundering on abortion.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I think they let in some of missourah's not so undecided voters

― bnw (bnw), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

"I don't unnerstan"

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

"Trying to decipher that"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush so doesn't understand Dred Scott he should be impeached. Slavery WAS legal at the time.

― Michael White (Hereward), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Tryin to 'cipher dat!

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish there was a rock on stage for Bush to boredly kick around. He looks really tired.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

That blonde was an agent of the lord.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

hi josh!

― phil-two (phil-two), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

no-one is undecided on the issue of abortion. this topic is useless to debate.

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think that anyone was going to have their mind changed by this question anyway.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

ABORTIONS FOR ALL!

― hardworking blue-collar, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Abortion is more of a dead end (pardon the pun) than gay marriage.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

GAY MARRIAGE FOR ALL

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Hi me? Or the angel of the lord?

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I would kill Bush with my vagina if I could.

― Carey (Carey), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

WOW Bush is killing himself on his lack of nuance there.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

no, me

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish Kerry was kicking more ass during the domestic "half" of this "domestic debate."

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

"It's pretty simple when.." No, George, as John just explained, because you say it is a yes or no doesn't make it so.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush must stop trying to make everybody laugh.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I do no wrong!

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

FUCK YEAH!!!!! GREAT last question!

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

RAMPANT FUCKING IN THE STREETS

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Me too!

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Asking Bush to answer a three-part question? Lady, that's just cruel.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"what were your biggest mistakes?" invoked

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

evading teh question.

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

'i made some little ones. all my big ones were right.'

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"Did you make a mixtape going into Iraq?"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

ANSWER.
THE.
FUCKING.
QUESTION.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I did not make a mixtape going into Iraq

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

so his mistakes were mostly of the "appointments" variety then

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"I did the right decision!"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Her question was "Have you made a mistake?", not "Did you make a mistake about Saddam Hussein?"

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"the president makes the decisions... the president has to take the responsibility"

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush makes the biggest faux pas of the evening in not answering the question ON THE QUESTION'S TERMS!

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

my biggest mistake was appointing people who make a lot of mistakes

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

mixtape, starts with

The Cure - Killing An Arab

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

gut-check-time invoked

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry.....moppin' up now.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

..but I don't want to hurt their feelings.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

"in the zone of dangerous" indeed

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

"the internet" invoked again

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm gonna go check this internet thing out when the debate is finished!

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush dusting off the 87 billion dollar quote AGAIN.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

87 Billion invoked = everyone takes 87 Billion drinks

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

look at bush's jaw go

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm gonna go check this internet thing out when the debate is finished!

But which internet?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

HALLIBURTON *gulp gulp gulp*

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Closing statements!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

it's internets, don't forget!

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Fat woman in background obviously bored.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:31 (twenty-one years ago)

hunt and kill, kerry! hunt and kill!

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

(MSNBC poll is 69% Kerry right now)

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"kill the terrorists" -vs- "capture/stop the terrorists"

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

yeeah, which terrorists have we killed exactly?

― cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

"I Have a Plan"

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Fat woman in background obviously bored.

Best commentary of the night.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush invoking corporate scandals

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

common sense summary:

strong alliances
get bin laden
train the iraqi army get the shit out
investment in schools
protect the environment
new jobs
tax the super rich

vote kerry, vote bush out

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

roffle fat woman

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

that woman was just like, "i need one of those 87 billion drinks, beyotch"

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

bush: "look how shitty everything has been" not a good rhetorical plan.

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Bush breaking up with me/us ???

― something, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Woman with pageboy haircut, too.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

woman in grey in background picking teeth and scowling (xpost)

― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

NEXUS

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

decreasing dependency on foreign sources of oil...by ridding the world of foreign sources of oil

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

HATERZ

― Possum Slimm (Possumslimm), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

re: Bush
is that 'sticking out his chin' thing a tell?

― tremendoid, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Did he just say "haterz"?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Any hotties in the audience?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

summary: the world is a dangerous place. vote Bush.

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

oh man, there's going to be another one of these??

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

the polls are open!

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

They used to do four of these.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

vote Quimby!

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

vote ween

― boognish, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that went pretty well - Bush didn't get his ass kicked as much, but he still lost. I think Kerry's clarifications - no taxes for those under $200,000, 'can't somebody else do it', etc - will go down well with the majorities instincts.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

kerry is at 76% in that poll. wow.

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Boy, that is A LOT of people gathered around the two men in the room who will be elected president.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

fox news is slow to get its poll up.

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

The spinning begins.

Bush doing better than #1 = Bush won? Surely not.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

vote hoegaarden

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

'can;t someone else do it' in relation to Iraq, that is.,

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"slow to get its poll up."

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

haha, Kerry's up to 79% on MSNBC

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, i'd say Kerry won.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder if Bush is going to touch that fat guy's head that Kerry's talking to.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Buchanan is crowing about how Bush won. WTF?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd like to hear someone dub the sad piano chords from the "Saturday Night Live" finale over this footage.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Buchanon on Chris Matthews saying Bush Won in dumbass neonazi shocker.

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought Kerry did great.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Rob Schneider suddenly appears hugging Laura Bush saying "You were great!" Tucker Carlson holding a sign saying "Get well soon, Novak!"

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush didn't better than #1, but he still comes off as a deluded fuckhead.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:43 (twenty-one years ago)

still no poll on foxnews.com

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)

George Will calls it a draw!

translation: Bush got MURDALIZED

― tremendoid, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush didn't better than #1, but he still comes off as a deluded fuckhead.

Somehow, this syntaxtically-obscure comment just about says it all.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/debate_rdp

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)

"slow to get its poll up."
-- dave225 (right.knewi...), October 9th, 2004 9:39 PM.

Hahahahaha

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Buchanan is completely deluded.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

What else is new?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

"Bush very presidential w/ swagger" .. wtf?

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Considering I expected Kerry to smoke Bush clear out of the running on domestic policies, and (to my estimation) the only one he really did so tonight was Canadian prescription drugs, I'd be willing to call this one a draw myself. Maybe it's just because I expect better from Kerry. I'm glad that the polls show I'm in the minority, though.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:46 (twenty-one years ago)

CBS - Dan Rather: "The President's tax cuts haven't created the number of jobs he promised..."
Pataki: "You don't create jobs by raising taxes you create jobs by CUTTING TAXES!!! 1.9 million jobs!!!!"

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Turning the sound down on MSNBC and going back to CNN.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

yahoo: 69/29, advantage kerry.

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not a draw if you don't handicap Bush

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v296/WilliamCrump63/Hissyfit.jpg

― William Crump (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

So, who owns the timber company?

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush and Kerry clash SHOCKAH
you saw it on yahoo first!
what would I do without mainstream media?

― tremendoid, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not a draw if you don't handicap Bush

True.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:48 (twenty-one years ago)

i still have cspan on. what is wrong with me?

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:48 (twenty-one years ago)

CNN has a "town hall reaction".

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:51 (twenty-one years ago)

whoops, sorry, it was like all of 3 minutes.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:52 (twenty-one years ago)

....with a kid in an Insane Clown Posse t-shirt.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:52 (twenty-one years ago)

http://img57.exs.cx/img57/6769/internets.gif

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:53 (twenty-one years ago)

thank you roy (and hello to you, too), but the tv goes off now!

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:54 (twenty-one years ago)

i bet internets.com will be registered shortly...

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:55 (twenty-one years ago)

What's all this about the pronunciation of "Missourah"?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:56 (twenty-one years ago)

MSN: We can't find "www.internets.com"

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:57 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, hey J0sh -- you left too early last Saturday!

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:57 (twenty-one years ago)

of the people that attended the debate live, it was just about evenly split:
Kerry by 3points, 13% called it a draw. 35K/32B

― dave225 (Dave225), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:58 (twenty-one years ago)

in his defense "Missourah" is was just pandering, not a 'potatoe' moment

― tremendoid, Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:58 (twenty-one years ago)

77% is just /delightful/ insane - I mean, that's well into rock-solid Bush voters. Is MSNBC particually liberal? I guess internet voters swing to the left a bit?

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:58 (twenty-one years ago)

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/08/debate.main/top.2243.kerry.bush.pool.jpg

― Gear! (Gear!), Saturday, 9 October 2004 01:59 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha Gear!

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:00 (twenty-one years ago)

cnn poll says: 83%/16%, advantage kerry.

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:01 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, hey J0sh -- you left too early last Saturday!

yes yes, too early!

― phil-two (phil-two), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Howard Dean would have wrestled Bush to the floor. What a missed opportunity.

― Howard Wine (nordicskilla), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:02 (twenty-one years ago)

i've been chastised enough about that already thank you very much!

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:04 (twenty-one years ago)

ABC says Bush did own a tiny share in a timber company, and reported it on his tax return.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:04 (twenty-one years ago)

that timber company thing came completely out of left field too

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's all like, "here's wot we need to do, L&G" and Bush is all like "is that a pony?"

― Gear! (Gear!), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Here's Georgie's "six month decline" before he took office:

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/charts/big.chart?symb=djia&compidx=aaaaa%3A0&ma=0&maval=9&uf=0&lf=1&lf2=0&lf3=0&type=2&size=2&state=8&sid=1643&style=320&time=12&freq=2&nosettings=1&rand=6157&mocktick=1&rand=8176

there was a bit of a minor "correction" in Fall '00, but clearly the market had rebounded by the time he took office

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I weep for MSNBC's awful coverage.. Mitchell, Tweety, Reagan and Buchanan. Are you kidding me?

― still bevens (bscrubbins), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Jesus do I ever hate Karen Hughes. Someone harpoon that fuckin' harpee already.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:13 (twenty-one years ago)

yeeah, which terrorists have we killed exactly?

one of the "terrorists" we killed was an American citizen, in Yemen, with a missle from a Predator drone (one of those unmanned vehicles Bush was talking about - is he for outsourcing our military?). No proof was ever offered, in a court of law, that this man was a terrorist or had engaged in terrorist activity. He was killed, by the CIA, in another sovereign nation, without being tried in a court of law.

― hstencil (hstencil), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Nice to see Manchester United and England defender Gary Neville in the audience.

(this joke for Britpats only)

― Gigantic [something] (nordicskilla), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, some serious dee-loozhun going on Freerepublic.com:

Most Honorable President Bush, thank you so very, very much for filling me with pride tonight!!! There has been so much doom & gloom lately but after tonight, I am re-energized and emboldened by your stellar performance. After seeing you tonight, I no longer have any doubts that God will indeed bless these United States with 4 more years of your COURAGE, WISDOM, AND UNFLAGGING LEADERSHIP!!!! LONG LIVE PRESIDENT BUSH AND THESE UNITED STATES!!!!!!

18 posted on 10/08/2004 8:05:53 PM PDT by DonPaulJonesII

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:15 (twenty-one years ago)

the stock market is usually a 6-month forward indicator, so by Bush talking about the decline, he's basically saying the stock market predicted the economy would suck on my watch.

― hstencil (hstencil), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Baked B, are the responses even funnier?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Waiting for Momums to appear and tell us how much he's aesthetically attuned to Kerry (perhaps Momus will volunteer to be one of the expanded troops Kerry promises) and can't possibly imagine that he could drink the same beer as Shrub.

No, I'm not a Bush supporter.

Yes, most here will hang on to Momus's every *insightful* word.

Stay tuned.

― Lefty, Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, most here will hang on to Momus's every *insightful* word.

Potent brand of crack you smoke.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:27 (twenty-one years ago)

haha what color is the sky in your ILX pal

― Gear! (Gear!), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned, it was like wading through a Roman vomitorium...at some point I gathered my senses and escaped to other parts on "Internets."

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Hilarious... guess where that comment about Bush owning $84 in a timber company comes from? Factcheck.org (.ORG mind you).

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned, it was like wading through a Roman vomitorium

How bilious.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Aaron!

― Borats of Kazakhstan (Andy K), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey Kellman!

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Alex, it's harpy.

I think many will notice Bush's *lack of content* here; every turn he had to react to Kerry's attacks came off flustered or at the very least padded out so as to kill remaining time.

Kerry got on my tits slightly with all the 'respect' for fundie questioners; he has to find a better shorthand to make it apparent that disagreement does not equal 'being condescending'. Although I would love it if someone with a serious chance to be president turned around to these people and just told them to 'individualise' their relationship with their tooth fairy of choice (I really think W believes in a holy trinity of Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, such is his intellectual command of ecclesiastical history and argument).

― suzy (suzy), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:35 (twenty-one years ago)

"Harpy" is so white-bread, though. "Harpee" has a bit more pizzazz.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Sullivan called it a draw, leaning to Kerry but that's a cop-out and he concedes as much with what -- for him -- is a pretty harsh assessment of some key points re Mr. Bush:

Throwing around the old "liberal" label was hackneyed and seemed a substitute for argument. His distortion of Kerry's healthcare plan didn't flirt with being mendacious; it was an outright lie. His answer on the environment sounded okay but isn't going to convince anyone. That he has to concede the complete absence of WMDs in Iraq is inevitably brutal on him and his argument about the war. The facts are simply against him, and it shows. He had absolutely no answer on his spending spree. None. If you're a one-issue voter on fiscal responsiblity, Kerry is obviously your man; and this debate rammed that point home. And then there were some simply bizarre moments. Does anyone in America ever use the term "internets"? Plural? I've never heard anyone in my life use this formulation. The mandatory malapropism: Bush promised at one point that he'd be more "facile" in future. That's going to be a hard promise to keep. After four years of defending the homeland, the president should also not be giving soundbites like "I'm worried. I'm worried about our country." Hey, Mr president. Join the gang. And then there was the hilarious answer on the judicial appointments. Bush won't appoint anyone who still believes in the Dredd Scott decision. That's a relief. But, to be honest, it's the kind of question a high-school president might give, not the president of the United States. Bush's biggest failure was to detail Kerry's record, rather than just describing it as "liberal". "Show, not tell" is a good rule of thumb for effective criticism. And then there was the inevitable "mistakes" question. Bush didn't answer it - except to say he wish he hadn't hired Paul O'Neill. You'd think by now he'd have some kind of answer. But he seems to think he is incapable of error. That, in fact, is an obvious part of the problem.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Plus it's closer to "Harpoon", which is always cool.

x-post

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I googled for "Harpee"

http://www.lastsquare.com/FantasyCatalog/Grimreaper/1048.jpg

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Rather unsettling.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Ann Coulter's on Larry King now, and she's got a massive hard-on for Bush's performance right now.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned, outta curiousity (and it's not like I mind, I'm just curious), what's with your constant Sullivan-quoting? Is he paying you or something?

― hstencil (hstencil), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I find him very interesting. Jeremy and I were talking about it, and we agree that we're just waiting for him to melt down completely. I sorta see him as the canary in the coldmine for a lot of conservative assumptions.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh, COLDmine? Coalmine, obv.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

ah, okay. This is an interesting piece on him, btw.

― hstencil (hstencil), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I still don't get that Dred Scott thing.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:49 (twenty-one years ago)

see he fucked that up too (as noted above) since slavery was legal IN THE CONSTITUTION. If somebody asked Bush about the 3/5ths law his head would explode.

― hstencil (hstencil), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush = Dredd Foole.

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I am going to listen to "Dred Bass"

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe Momus will suck his own dick?

― Jimmy Mod, Los Sexx Yanqui (ModJ), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Ann Coulter would get woman wood for Pat Buchanan in SS gear, let alone a Bush speech.

― Gear! (Gear!), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Heh, this line from that Voice article sums it up:

The Times lecture was an excellent occasion to sample Sullivan's contradictions

It's that contradiction-like nature which I find compelling. As a public performer, his blog is an emotional gamut-runner, alternately lurching from despair to hope to despair again. And over the past year he's really been starting to unravel, and I suspect is already positioning himself to be the first to say he was right among 'his' crowd -- whatever that exactly is (at this point the portrait is of him berating the National Review and the Weekly Standard for groupthink, thus the final part of this post) -- if Bush loses.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

ann coulter is utterly fucking comical

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

(Also, while I also dip into the blogs which are more aligned to me politically, I am more interested in seeing what the other half thinks.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 October 2004 02:58 (twenty-one years ago)

one of the key bits of vid tonight that hopefuly will get replayed ad naseum is near the end, when bush was speaking, he paused for like 5 seconds and you could see the woman in the black pageboy haircut behind him burst out laughing.

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

It looked to me like the studio audience favored Kerry. There were more than a couple times they were all laughing at, not with, Bush.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's thing about the only people in the room benefitting from the Bush tax cut being himself, Bush, and the moderator was by far the best line of the night.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

except for the timid blonde chick who asked about abortion. it was like she was made of the most fragile of porcelins, and a harsh breath could cause her to utterly shatter.

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Or a thunderbolt from an angry God

― Jimmy Mod, Los Sexx Yanqui (ModJ), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:10 (twenty-one years ago)

My favorite audience reaction was the confused, almost pissed off look on the face of the guy who asked Bush the question about his environmental record. If he had a thought bubble above his head, it probably would have read "OMG JUST ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION, LIAR!"

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm kind of annoyed - it's been confirmed that Quayle is in my town for the golf (he gave a speech to some business club at the uni), but I totally forgot to go to the hotel and 'bump into' him. He was bound to be watching the debate tonight - how cool would it be to watch the debate with Dan Quayle?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Not very,

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Not very.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:19 (twenty-one years ago)

See, I was flip-flopping there.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Ugh, fucking Michael Moore was in Minneapolis today. I guess him watching the debate and commenting on it is enough of an event to fill an arena. The local news showing his fat ass jumping out of a recliner (which they had on a raised platform in the middle of the arena, along with a tv!) and screeching probably guaranteed Bush another couple thousand votes in Minnesota.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:25 (twenty-one years ago)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3845089354

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Q: Why is the wood winking at me?
A: It can feel that you're scared.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:29 (twenty-one years ago)

http://img68.exs.cx/img68/5901/bushwood.jpg

NEXT TIME YOU CUT ME OFF, GIBSON, THIS IS FOR YOU!

― Baked Bean Teeth (Baked Bean Teeth), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Point to Kerry:

Bush: Of course, I listen to our generals. That's what a president does. A president sets the strategy and relies upon good military people to execute that strategy.

Kerry: You rely on good military people to execute the military component of the strategy, but winning the peace is larger than just the military component ... The military's job is to win the war. A president's job is to win the peace.

― user, Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Best-Ebay-Auction-Evar. That photo is frighteningly well photoshopped considering how little time they had on that. The questions also are q'lassic.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:33 (twenty-one years ago)

From Wonkette:

Q: Name three times you've made a mistake. A: I WAS RIGHT TO GO TO WAR. AND THAT'S A TRICK QUESTION. FUCK YOU.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Saturday, 9 October 2004 03:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Good lord...wanna get depressed? Watch Pat Buchanan interview college students for Bush. Really....it's sickening.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 04:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I have this mental image of these college students all looking sorta like the gay mormon dude from Angels in America. Please tell me they looked like him.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 9 October 2004 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm still roffling and foffling at the idea of ILX 'hanging on my every word'.

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 9 October 2004 04:56 (twenty-one years ago)

man, that was quick:

http://www.needsumwood.com/

still, the Q&A from the ebay listing is classic. i'm saving it, since the auction is bound to be closed in about 8 hours.

Q: When will we have a freedom of information sharing which will allow these internets to unite to provide wood from one omnipresent global coalition of internets?

A: ...Freedom?

Q: Has this wood forgotten about Poland? If not, can I use it to keep my balance on my Segway?

A: We guess you could write the word Poland on it or something. That way you'll never forget.

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Saturday, 9 October 2004 05:16 (twenty-one years ago)

i wouldn't go so far as to say that the fix was on, but a fix was on. namely, that THIS time the wingnuts KNEW that dubya MIGHT fuck it all up again ... so it's time to go out and survey wingnut-friendly audiences (like pat puKKKe-annon talking to the college repugnants), who are part of the hivemind already; or get other Borg -- such as Ann "Locutus" Coulter -- to just salivate about what a "great job" dubya did (whether or not he actually did so).

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 9 October 2004 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

just talk to an actual republican, stence -- the rationalizations are, if nothing else, amusing!

(seriously, those who are going to vote for bush might as well be talking in swahili for all the sense their reasons -- or outlook in general -- make to those outside the wingnut hivemind.)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 9 October 2004 05:25 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.i-mockery.com/generalzod/sticker-large.gif

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 9 October 2004 05:27 (twenty-one years ago)

a picture of brezhnev would also do as well as zod. at least ol' monobrow leonid could string together a coherent sentence before he stroked out!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 9 October 2004 05:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I was talking with my neighbor (who is voting for Kerry) about the debate and he said, "Kerry won, but not by as much as he did in the first debate." How is this so? Because Bush didn't stammer and smirk as much as he did in the first debate? That does not mean that he did better in THE DEBATE! A DEBATE is about DEBATING ISSUES.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 9 October 2004 05:32 (twenty-one years ago)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041009/capt.mosa10510090303.debate_mosa105.jpg

"c'mon, time for the ol' Skull & Bones handshake!"

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Saturday, 9 October 2004 05:33 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.needsumwood.com/

I didn't know you could register a domain name and build a site that fast!

Listening to this on the radio, I honestly thought I was hearing Kerry win the election right there, he sounded so calm and precise and on the money, both content-wise and delivery-wise - and Bush so angry (especially in the beginning), on the defensive, and lacking in substance. Then, I caught the end on TV, and I can see how the body language and the general visual presentation evens things out a little. Still, I was very proud of Kerry; I thought he did a "superb job."

― morris pavilion (samjeff), Saturday, 9 October 2004 05:34 (twenty-one years ago)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041009/capt.mogh11610090257.debate_mogh116.jpg

"Watch me rock this mic, yo"

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Saturday, 9 October 2004 05:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, gawd, Bush wants to offer us his "wood"!
I feel so....violated!

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 9 October 2004 05:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's thing about the only people in the room benefitting from the Bush tax cut being himself, Bush, and the moderator was by far the best line of the night.

OTM! For all the talk of the 'middle class' and 'working families', these guys NEVER admit to being absolutely stinking rich themselves; for Kerry to do so gets him so many marks in my book.

Just watched the debate on CBC Newsworld with friends; we started with a drinking game(jack daniels, straight), but then Bush said 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' three times in one sentence and we had to stop before we fell into stupor. My reaction almost paralleled this thread exactly; it's been fun reading and seeing al the same flashpoints. What a dog and pony show.

Kerry trounced him tonight; I don't know how anyone could objectively arrive at another result. There were a good three or four questions where Bush answered, Kerry rebutted and told him to get stuffed, and Bush proceeded to repeat his first answer. WTF! The man told you off! It was ludicrous.

We had fun wondering what Bush was taking notes on. "Memo: fire Lugar et al. pronto" "note: investigate these so-called "internets"

Kerry simply outclassed Bush, in body language, posture, facial expressions on the sidelines, engaging questions, etc. I hope these debates get good mileage.

― derrick (derrick), Saturday, 9 October 2004 06:26 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, and OTM on Bush's consistently DUD jokes and cheap shots. Let's hear it for the crickets.

My reaction almost paralleled this thread exactly Sorry, this is a crap sentence. I blame the JD.

― derrick (derrick), Saturday, 9 October 2004 06:30 (twenty-one years ago)

also, bush continually complaining about things being held up in congress, in the senate, etc. GUESS WHO'S PARTY controls both houses of congress!

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Saturday, 9 October 2004 08:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I am glad that you think it went well.

I like Raggett's 'coldmine'!

― the bellefox, Saturday, 9 October 2004 08:42 (twenty-one years ago)

It's just terrific to see Bush, there on TV, being held accountable for the stuff he's been doing these last four years. Kerry's line about 'No lobbyist left behind' was exactly right. For four years he's been pushing the agenda of a small minority of powerful corporate interests, standing with his wrists dangling arrogantly in his shirt-cuffs taking standing ovations because 9/11 happened on his watch. His must think it's all so easy. But now he's being cross-examined in public by an extremely sharp and articulate opponent. And Bush doesn't have the rhetoric, the resources, the record or the alibi to get off the hook. He's being crushed. He looks shifty, panicked. He never thought anything like this could happen.

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 9 October 2004 08:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Momus, I like what you say: but you are surely excessively optimistic if you think that this translates into electoral outcome. It is clear, after all, that most of the US does not see things as you, here, do: or Kerry would be leading by 95%.

But I was cheered by the advice of my private polling advisor last night.

― the bellefox, Saturday, 9 October 2004 08:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the PF means me. I hope my optimism isn't excessive. I think Kerry will hang on to all of the Gore states, fail to capture FL but take OH, NH and perhaps one of CO and NV. It's enough.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Saturday, 9 October 2004 09:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Probably hang on to all the Gore states except Wisconsin, and then it doesn't matter if he gets New Hampshire or those four Colorado votes. All that matters is that he gets either Ohio or Florida (and yeah, OH does look more likely right now, doesn't it).

I wish I knew what issue or demographic shift has changed WI over the last 8 years.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 09:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Now, when things start to look good again poll-wise, the October Surprise anxiety starts creeping up on you again.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Saturday, 9 October 2004 09:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Current electoral vote predictor score: Bush 239, Kerry 280. Electoral college votes needed to win: 270.

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 9 October 2004 10:10 (twenty-one years ago)

How updated is that? It's saying Kerry is up 7 per cent in MN and zero percent for Nader, which runs counter to all the 'eek, a dead heat' stuff I see elsewhere.

Got my absentee ballot on Thursday, wahey!

― suzy (suzy), Saturday, 9 October 2004 10:26 (twenty-one years ago)

certainly the talk of Bush seeming more "presidential" seems like rubbish at this point, shifty is exactly the word, addled.

― Ronan (Ronan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 10:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Got my absentee ballot on Thursday, wahey!

i've heard that absentee votes may not be counted unless the election is too close to call. that seems pretty unfair. i know i would want my vote to show up in the numbers regardless of the outcome.

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm interested in trying to imagine how Tony Blair must be feeling right now. His name came up in the debates, with Bush trying to ridicule Kerry's line that there was no serious coalition for the Iraq war. 'What about Tony Blair?'

Blair always used to look 'intelligent' next to Bush. Although they were saying the same thing, Blair said it with more polish and more humanitarianism. But now Kerry stands beside Bush. He has all of Blair's sophistication and obvious intelligence. But he's on the other side, attacking Bush instead of supporting him. Blair suddenly looks toothless, his intelligence a kind of cornered sophistry, his humanitarianism a cover for torture and atrocity. Blair doesn't look stupid, but actually evil. To be smart enough to see through Bush's schtick yet to go along with it anyway, to use your lawyer's brain to justify recklessness, is worse than stupid -- it's morally repugnant. How now is Blair going to deal with a Kerry administration, when he hasn't given him a word of support during this campaign and has been brandished, in Bush's rhetoric, as a weapon against Kerry, a means to defeat him? Imagine how Margaret Thatcher would have looked if she'd survived into the Clinton years. That's how Blair will look in the Kerry era. Like a washed-out evil old has-been. They don't make flip flops big enough for the turnabout Blair will have to do on November 3rd. Even he can't flash a grin big enough to make it look okay. He's dead meat.

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 9 October 2004 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

this is a pretty big flip flop...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Saturday, 9 October 2004 12:13 (twenty-one years ago)

(sorry momus)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Saturday, 9 October 2004 12:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, no need to apologize. I also collect big flip flops. Here's a pair, at least six feet long, belonging to the bronze Buddha at Kamakura, Japan.

http://www.imomus.com/bigflipflops.jpeg

― Momus (Momus), Saturday, 9 October 2004 12:24 (twenty-one years ago)

bush mentioning blair = a dubious attempt at credibility by association.
kerry not mentioning blair = inconsequential. (imho)

i really doubt that blair is "dead meat". quite the contrary actually...

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 13:47 (twenty-one years ago)

loyalty/camaraderie (in good times and bad) counts for a lot.

― wank sinatra (disco stu), Saturday, 9 October 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

current foxnews.com poll results: 53%/46%, advantage bush. no surprise there, except that it's almost 50/50.

scroll way way down for the poll.

― Germany's Fun-Loving Beer (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 9 October 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

what about when bush nearly ATE the moderator in his hurry to defend himself against kerry? i thought they were actually going to come to blows - it looked like bush might leap over the table and tell him to stuff it.
i thought kerry did remarkably well in this debate - i liked what he said more yesterday than in the first one. this was the first time i'd felt like, 'yeah, actually i WANT this guy to be president,' rather than, 'ok, best we've got.'

― stolenbus (stolenbus), Saturday, 9 October 2004 15:50 (twenty-one years ago)

my favorite part of the night was all of the scowling missourians. esp this one woman who would always be making this god awful face everytime bush spoke. makes me wish i had tv capture on my pc.

― still bevens (bscrubbins), Saturday, 9 October 2004 17:18 (twenty-one years ago)

holy shit! nobody watched last night:

FRIDAY NIGHT DEBATE NUMBERS WEAK FOR BIG-3 NETS: NBC averaged a 7.4 rating/13 share, ABC 6.0/10; CBS third at 4.9/8... Developing...

― still bevens (bscrubbins), Saturday, 9 October 2004 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

why does bush keep bringing up the "wrong war, wrong time, wrong place" line? it's kinda catchy and not the thing you'd think he'd want to stick in people's heads

― s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 9 October 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Hell, of course no one watched. It was Friday night!

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 17:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the Town Hall format sucks. It's basically people asking the very same questions a moderator would but less pointedly and intelligently. There should also be a rule against a) speaking on a previous question after your turn and/or rebuttal is over in an attempt to get 'the last word' and b) repeating your talking points 15 times.

I also liked how Bush said "you can run but you can't hide". I could almost hear Osama laughing from his cave.

― bnw (bnw), Saturday, 9 October 2004 18:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks for linking to the needsumwood.com site. My computer doesn't have enough spyware on it. I was needing some more.

― Garbo, Saturday, 9 October 2004 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

You mean the woman on the end of the row who was leaning against the railing and picking her teeth half the night?

― David Beckhouse (David Beckhouse), Saturday, 9 October 2004 22:40 (twenty-one years ago)

You sure it was her teeth that she was picking?

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 9 October 2004 23:00 (twenty-one years ago)

bush's new talking point is kerry's "dour pessimism". i wish i was there when they explained to bush what "dour" means.

― dan (dan), Saturday, 9 October 2004 23:32 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.youforgotpoland.com/bush-debate.gif

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Sunday, 10 October 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

The point at which I believe I laughed the hardest during this whole thing was when, about five seconds into a Kerry rebuttal, Dubya was OUT OF HIS SEAT, inching forward, like an MC at a mic battle with a HUNGER. My house is a mess of beer bottles and broken American dreams today.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Sunday, 10 October 2004 01:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the Town Hall format sucks. It's basically people asking the very same questions a moderator would but less pointedly and intelligently.

I disagree, the questions were much better than anything Jim Lehrer or Gwen Ifill could come up with. I'm holding out hope that Bob Scheiffer's better.

― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 10 October 2004 02:11 (twenty-one years ago)

It is clear, after all, that most of the US does not see things as you, here, do: or Kerry would be leading by 95%.
OT: Travelled through Amish country today, and saw an alarmingly high number of "Bush/Cheney '04" signs, both on lawns and on billboards.
On the flipside, I also saw one bumper sticker, and it said: "Like Father, Like Son....ONE TERM!"
So that cheered me up by 1%*

*(Disclaimer: after the electoral votes are counted this 1% will have been rendered nonexistant.)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 10 October 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

One good thing about the town hall format was that lots of the questions were of the direct, point blank, hold leaders accountable variety. A moderator can't use that form of address.

― youn, Sunday, 10 October 2004 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Some clarity on Bush's apparently none-too-veiled reference to tearing down Roe v. Wade:

http://fairshot.typepad.com/fairshot/2004/10/dred_scott_roe_.html

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 10 October 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Some clarity on Bush's apparently none-too-veiled reference about the Dred Scott decision to tearing down Roe v. Wade:

http://fairshot.typepad.com/fairshot/2004/10/dred_scott_roe_.html

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 10 October 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Woops.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 10 October 2004 21:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, fair enough, but who among the non Bush faithful will be able to decode that?

― Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 10 October 2004 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)

The non-crazed anti-choicers are just supposed to write it off as another Bush malapropism. For those anti-choicers though, it's basically the ultimate reassurance.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 10 October 2004 22:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I caught this in a bar. Sound was off but with close captioning it was clear Bush got smoked. In fact, I've got it on tape to watch eventuallyand I have to imagine Bush could ONLY come off worse with sound (I missed any possible stutters and the crickets his bad jokes got). I'm glad I finally got to see one of these.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Anthony, you missed the best part of the debate!!!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously, Bush's shouted iambs were hypnotizing; it's like he had a hearing problem or something

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

(haha I wrote that completely forgetting about the "Bush = wired" rumor)

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno, it was interesting to read what was being said. Even from just the visuals and text I could tell that Kerry was creating a context of consensus and power by name-dropping folks who agreed with him and confidently pointing out the mistakes Bush has made. I know it probably sounded better, but it also READ better. You can say all politicians are conning us, but at the very least Kerry did it in a manner that actually acknowledged and paid attention to the qualms and concerns of people. Text-wise alone, where the outrage Kerry voiced was firm and based on clear-voiced reason, Bush only offered defensive incredulity. Kerry responded to the dare to look in the camera and make a promise re: taxes quickly and with assuredness. Bush responded to the demand for three examples of mistakes with evasiveness and near-incoherency. While I'm fine with people being bothered by the "beauty pageant" element of this election and those who find too much fault in both candidates to vote for either (by voting for a third party candidate they'll at least be increasing the size of the voter pool), I'll definitely take offense at somebody who says Kerry came off "no better" than Bush. That's just contrarian and silly.

I've said this before, but I wish people would stop hypothesizing what "mainstream america" is going to do. None of us here are Kreskins and excessive pessimissism and optimism isn't helpful (both dwindle people's feeling that their individual vote matters). It's clear that Kerry is the better of the two main candidates and I plan to act on that and express my belief, whatever the rest of America decides to do.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

have we already mentioned this Sullivan (deadpanned?) line:

Bush promised at one point that he'd be more "facile" in future. That's going to be a hard promise to keep.

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

It's already been said but Bush's wariness about this "internets" thing and his inability to move past Dred Scott re: his feelings on civil rights reminds me of his daddy's need to bring up the "crazy bozo ozone man" and pointing out that Clinton's off partying with rock stars like U2. Shit, even Dole came off more easygoing about this stuff in '96 (he shouted out to his dot com).

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember some comment from Bush Senior complaining about MTV in 1992 as some sort of 'mod' channel. Good job, dude.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I think he also referenced Boy George when discussing Bill and Bono's rendevous.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

all pessimissism/optimism aside i'm finding the figures regarding the electoral votes strangely fascinating.
the Kreskin part is, well, suggesting that it's not going to be close either way.
but say if it is close, then betting-type analysis such as this (from realclearpolitics): "The quartet of Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa and New Mexico could be where this election is decided. If Bush does have a hold on Wisconsin, then even if Senator Kerry wins Ohio, he will also have to win both Iowa and New Mexico to deny Bush four more years" might prove esp. prescient.
(this also supposes kerry gets PA, and bush FL. if either fails in those respective regards no real race left)

― duke electoral, Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:52 (twenty-one years ago)

There's still plenty of time left in this race, one debate as well. In 2000, the lead kept on switching hands in the last few weeks. I have no doubt that several states will flip between then and now.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Monday, 11 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

That Ohio! Such a flip-flopper!

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Monday, 11 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Who else thinks there is a good (or at least not bad) chance that Bush wins again with a slim majority of the electoral college, but despite an even greater minority (compared to '00) of the popular vote? I think Kerry has a very, very good chance of winning, especially if all the new folks registering to vote actually do vote. But the skewed lose/win scenario still seems highly plausible to me.

Oh, also, sorta x-post: do the Amish typically vote? Large numbers? Small numbers? They certainly don't watch the debates. Do they even read newspapers? Are they pacifist, like Quakers? Just wondering.

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Monday, 11 October 2004 02:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Typically the Amish don't vote.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 11 October 2004 02:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, without televisions, they defintely didn't see how bad Bush got hammered in the debate.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 11 October 2004 04:11 (twenty-one years ago)

God is their television.

― Momus (Momus), Monday, 11 October 2004 05:13 (twenty-one years ago)

"The quartet of Ohio, Wisconsin, Iowa and New Mexico could be where this election is decided. If Bush does have a hold on Wisconsin, then even if Senator Kerry wins Ohio, he will also have to win both Iowa and New Mexico to deny Bush four more years"

This is true, though even Rasmussen (which is steadfastly not reflecting the Kerry bounce other pollsters are getting excited about) shows NH going to K-E; this plus OH and, say, NV (which is a Bush 2000 state every bit as close as Gore 2000 states like IA and NM) would do it, losing WI. Zogby is far more positive about this for Kerry and has him comfortably holding every Gore state with sub-margin-of-error Dem leads in five of the Rep marginals.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 11 October 2004 05:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the reverse is possible too - Bush seems to have made heavy inroads into traditionally Democrat areas on the eastern seaboard (NY, NJ and MD being closer than usual) but they're states he is unlikely to win. This coupled with his usual 60+ support in certain mid-western states means he may carry the popular vote by as much as a point and a half but still lose: Kerry sneaking home in OH plus two of (NH, NM, NV, IA).

(I'm pulling these numbers out of my Limey backside - can more knowledgable people set me straight if I'm wrong?)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 11 October 2004 05:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Momus on Blair, and Carsmile on flip-flops, are both very good.

― the bellefox, Monday, 11 October 2004 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)

If Bush does have a hold on Wisconsin, then even if Senator Kerry wins Ohio, he will also have to win both Iowa and New Mexico to deny Bush four more years"

Real Clear Politics' "analysis" is through conservative-colored lenses. Here's my liberal translation: If Bush does have a hold on [an unpredictable tossup state that has not voted Republican for years], then even if Senator Kerry wins [an extremely unpredictable ground-game tossup state with the worst economy in the nation], he will also have to win both [an anti-war state that goes between tossup and leaning his way] and [a majority-Hispanic state where his polling lead is regularly in the high single digits] to deny Bush four more years"

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 11 October 2004 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

actually, this is much easier to parse - If Bush does have a hold on Wisconsin, then "even if 'Senator Kerry' wins Ohio," he wins.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 11 October 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

who is courting the amish vote?

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Monday, 11 October 2004 14:23 (twenty-one years ago)

http://newsbox.msn.co.uk/article.aspx?as=article&f=uk_-_olgbtopnews&t=11881&id=238350&d=20041011&do=http://newsbox.msn.co.uk&i=http://newsbox.msn.co.uk/mediaexportlive&ks=0&mc=5&lc=en&ae=windows-1252

I wonder which are the right and wrong directions that America is headed in. East and West?

― the bluefox, Monday, 11 October 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

God is their television.
Question is...do they get better 'reception' than we do?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 11 October 2004 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

they get immaculate reception.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Monday, 11 October 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Ahhhh. It's the wide-brimmed hats. They're like the Old Skool version of Dish Network, yes?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 11 October 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

a review/comparision of the post-debate fact-check pieces done by the New York Times and the Washington Post.

The WaPo one is better, as it actually calls either guy on bullshit.

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Monday, 11 October 2004 19:09 (twenty-one years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.