DO I NEED THERAPY?

anyone who's been in therapy -- talk to me. tell me what to expect.

There's a zillion different types. What type are you doing?

none right now. i'm going through pre-qualification with my insurer right now. i'm not at the point where i'm trying to suss out the different types of talk-therapy out there. maybe i should post after i do that.

i also can't help shake the feeling that psychotherapists are just glorified witch-doctors. i went to therapy when i was an undergrad, and it seemed really pointless at the time.

T, i have had both very good and very bad experiences in therapy. to generalize: the helpful therapists gave me homework, called me out on the cognitive (and verbal) contortions I used to permit myself bad or unuseful or maladaptive behavior and thought patterns, and really – to use a stupid metaphor – held my feet to the fire. they checked in with me weekly, and expected actual and honest and measurable reports of my progress. most significantly, the therapists would redirect me if I got off track during our sessions (distracted, evasive, avoidant, storytelling) and focus our sessions on Actual Significant Issues. They did not just accept the malarky I wanted to talk about.

The bad therapists I had were overly friendly, permissive, too concerned with making me comfortable, establishing a meaningful therapeutic relationship, "a long plan", etc., and did not measure or appreciate the significance, cost, and necessity of a single hour (or two) during the course of my week where i intended to deal with Serious Shit. These sessions felt more like a confessional or a litany, and instead of dealing with woes and discomforts all I would end up doing taking a steaming mental shit on the floor of the therapist's office.

I would recommend you look for somebody who will challenge you, and give you honest (and hard) truths, as opposed to platitudes and comfort. But YMMV.

thanks remy. though how does what you describe as a "helpful therapist" differ from what a good friend can do (as long as they take the same approach that the helpful therapist takes)?

I think a good counselor (psychotherapist, clergyperson, social worker) is useful in ways a friend is not because:

(1) professional duty and detachment means a therapist will tell you where you are wrong without undue regard for hurting your feelings. a friend may not be able to tell you your fantasy of X is untenable and harmful, but a counselor will have no problem doing exactly that - and will probably be bound to do so by professional ethics.

(2) a therapist has good tools and training and the virtue of experience. s/he may end up hearing dozens and dozens of cases each week, and will learn with time which advice and assignments and repatternings of behavior work effectively, and which doesn't. most friends have personal and anecdotal evidence, at best.

(3) it's a lot easier to be totally honest with a stranger than a friend. you may not wish to admit to a friend that you are only a mediocre X – but to a therapist it will be easy. telling a friend that, oh, i dunno, 'i might have a touch of the old oedipal complex' might be easy at the time you say it –– but could prove embarrassing five years later.

i also can't help shake the feeling that psychotherapists are just glorified witch-doctors.

I have to resist the urge to lecture you here - at any rate, this feeling of yours is not rooted in the truth. but if you have this preconception, it's going to take you a while in therapy to develop the bond of trust you need in order to get the most out of it.

I don't think that hearing "what to expect" on the subject of therapy will be any more useful than when friends/strangers tell you "what to expect" from a marriage - which is therapy's closest analogue. You and another person are going to embark on a journey toward a better understanding of who you are. in that understanding lies the key to unimaginable happiness, in my experience, and in it hides the escape hatch from the depths. there are therapists with whom you won't click, but it'll be hard to tell if you're going in with the idea "this is probably bullshit."

the crucial differences between a therapist and a friend:
1. a therapist does not judge you. in any way. when you think that they are doing so, that's your own baggage. your friends may say they don't judge you, but that's a little different. when you come to understand the therapeutic space as one in which your ugliest, darkest secrets will not be judged, that's incredibly liberating.
2. a therapist is bound by confidentiality. your friends will promise not to talk to anybody else about what you talk to them about. that promise has a time limit, most likely, and they can be plied with drink. what you say in a therapist's office stays there forever.

I am as you might gather a strong believer in the benefits of psychotherapy.

FWIW – re: college therapy experience – is a lot of the therapists on college campuses are not yet pros, they're students who, as part of their prep/training before graduating, work on campus helping other students. So they're not pros. In my experience, it's been a notable difference in quality between therapists who are pros who have a few years under their belts, and ones I've seen on campus who were students, who all matched in some way remy's highly OTM description of Bad Therapists. Not that you even have the option of seeing a campus counselor type anymore, but just to say the experience you had would not be representative of the potentials in therapy.

my college therapist wasn't a student, i'm guessing that she was in her late 30s/early 40s. i don't know whether she was a *bad* therapist, or if it was just a matter of me not finding her method of psychotherapy very useful. it was a bunch of students sitting around in a room talking about whatever it was that was bothering us at the moment. and the therapist didn't really give us any advice -- she would just let us go on and on and on ... That's why it seemed pointless at the time. But that may have been her style/school of therapy.

anyway, i will take J0n's advice and just do it. can't judge till i go through it, i think. and since everyone is urging me to go to therapy, i think that they are onto something.

i imagine the warnings are there not to get your hopes too high for a particular, random therapist, but also reiterate that therapy can and in fact does work for many people in many cases; but it also doesn't work in similar frequency

yeah but dude on the real, especially in this loathsome accelerated age: you're gonna have a hard time not beginning to evaluate & grade the whole process somewhere around the first five minutes of the first session. it is disorienting. my for real advice: try to withhold judgment & just do it for 3 months minimum. just get into it. I personally think an mfcc or msw is the way to go btw. have fun. it'll change yr life is my prediction.

Witholding judgement is key. One of my closest friends has been seeing a therapist...she was hugely resistant at first, ready to toss it in after one session. I told her to give it time, and she came around to seeing the benefit.

This might sound trite but one of the biggest obstacles to therapy is believing that you are worth the trouble.

and that your therapist may actually be able to help you

i know what an MSW is, but what is an MFCC?

Motherfucking Cranium Changer

how many sessions should one allow before deciding to continue on with the same therapist? i mean, obviously there are situations where you know for sure that the person is helping you break through stuff etc..
but in the past, i have not been sure if a) i'm not working hard enough on the process or b) the therapist is just not a good match.

my college therapist wasn't a student, i'm guessing that she was in her late 30s/early 40s. i don't know whether she was a *bad* therapist, or if it was just a matter of me not finding her method of psychotherapy very useful. it was a bunch of students sitting around in a room talking about whatever it was that was bothering us at the moment. and the therapist didn't really give us any advice -- she would just let us go on and on and on ... That's why it seemed pointless at the time. But that may have been her style/school of therapy.

yeah, the therapy that has worked for me has been A) one-on-one and B) lots of feedback & questioning from the therapist

btw pre-revive this reads like an Ask A Drunk thread

I was just thinking about this...the clinic I was going to wanted me to have an annual appointment with their psychiatrist. The psychiatrist was a middle-aged dude and he was listening to Michael Savage in his office during our meeting, which I thought was maybe not appropriate. Anyway, I said, "My dad listens to Michael Savage," prompting him to ask if my dad knew X trivia item about Michael Savage. I had no idea. He said, "Call your dad." I said, "It's long distance, are you sure?" He said, yes, so we put my dad on speakerphone. He grilled my dad about minor points of Michael Savage trivia, and my dad knew none of them. "Looks like you don't really appreciate Michael Savage," the psychiatrist said to my dad before we ended the call.

that does not strike me as professional behavior

lol

Yeah, it was like the second least professional therapy experience I ever had.

It was so funny & weird that I didn't want to stop it, though...I was thinking, 'how far can this go?' It can go as far as a self-entitled stranger insulting my dad over speakerphone.

Looks like you don't really appreciate Michael Savage.

Abbott, you mistook what the clinic meant about the annual appointment -- the middle-aged guy was the patient.

you were billed for that??!

assuming not this guy btw

# Michael Savage (musician), singer of American rock band Pigmy Love Circus

Tracer Hand, I didn't pay a cent at this place. I guess you get what you pay for.

yeesh, physician heal thyself indeed!

Yeah, it was like the second least professional therapy experience I ever had.

...what was the first?

"I'm on a tight schedule, do you mind if I whip up dinner for my kids while we do this?"

^ i've heard this from dusky voiced beauties on sexlines tbh

what are all your experiences of therapy like?

i have been considering it lately, due to a combination of factors. i'm not feeling majorly down, in fact a little better than usual, but i think in a weird way it feels a good time to go as a result of that, in that i feel i can rationally see some problems and it'd be better to do something before life creates situations that makes them harder to deal with.

i guess it's a combination of lack of trust in myself, or not knowing when i am doing the right thing or the wrong thing, or whether i should be more self confident or less, or how to change or whether i need to. along with this i have a lot of trouble trusting people and feel a lot more introverted than at other times in my life, not that this would appear obvious to those around me, but the disconnect there is prob another problem.

further to all the above i never really talked through my chronic illness properly with anyone and i feel i should at some stage.

i guess underlining all the above is just an essential unhappiness which has become resignation to some extent.

i know everyone is prob reading thinking if the above means i need therapy then everyone should be signed up, but can i benefit from it does anyone think?

i feel like if it could help me to regain the impetus i had in my teens and early 20s, even a little bit, or some kind of impetus and self assuredness, then it'd be worth it.

and also just...erratic behaviour, one day over the moon the next disgusted, etc etc...no pattern to any of my moods.

go to therapy, but look for a "hard" therapist and not just one who waits for you to talk yourself out. you can always call around and interview them on the phone – ask them what their approach is – and look for one that fits with your goals. I think cognitive - behavioral therapists are better at giving homework, asking you to do real work on yourself, etc., as opposed to the old model of 'let's enable your narcissistic rambling for an hour every week'

Ugh. I've started seeing several over the years but never kept it up because each one I've seen (maybe 4 or 5 in total) was of the "one who waits for you to talk yourself out" variety. I know what my issues are and think about them ALL the time. I don't want to just talk about it. In fact I'm tired of talking about it. I want someone to give me feedback and help prompt change. The last one I saw told me that she didn't think CBT would work for me because I was too smart. I have no idea WTF that meant but it sounded like BS and I never went back.

^^^ i thank you for typing that out for me. having the same exact problem, only minus the trying.

i need someone who will be really "hard" i guess because i am EXTREMELY stubborn and not likely to enjoy this at all.

anyway ronan, i don't think this is a bad idea. have been considering it myself but haven't taken the next step. the last year has been pretty tough and i would like to know what to make of it.

The last one I saw told me that she didn't think CBT would work for me because I was too smart.

this is indeed straight-up bullshit, btw.

I KNOW

That's why we had to break up.

Have done CBT before and it was somewhat helpful btw.

CBT is really great if you have identifiable problems and behaviors you want to work on and change (which is why its great for anxiety-related issues), but (ime, and judging by the experience of friends) is a lot less helpful for... "working through issues" or what have you.

i mean its all related, ppl should do what works best for them, but given the way ronan is describing what he's looking for i think oldish-school "narcissistic rambling" therapy could be just as helpful. sometimes the best thing is to just talk to someone who is unconnected to your life for an hour every couple weeks!

...the clinic I was going to wanted me to have an annual appointment with their psychiatrist. The psychiatrist was a middle-aged dude and he was listening to Michael Savage in his office during our meeting, which I thought was maybe not appropriate.

LOL!!..

CBT is really great if you have identifiable problems and behaviors you want to work on and change (which is why its great for anxiety-related issues), but (ime, and judging by the experience of friends) is a lot less helpful for... "working through issues" or what have you.

Yes, this makes sense to me. Also my anxiety was pretty under control at the time so perhaps that was part of what she was getting at and just didn't phrase it correctly. We weren't a good fit in general mainly because of what I mentioned earlier. She would just look at me and nod the whole time and I found it really unhelpful. I think M is right though and that for some people the opportunity to talk to someone unconnected can be what some people find most helpful, it just hasn't been for me.

One of the major problems with going to therapy, for me at least, is when I feel low enough to make the appointment, suddenly the mere possibility of actually meeting this person is enough to make me remember OH YEAH I feel just FINE.

i find it hard to say which type would be good with no experience, apart from the cost being £0, that'd help me a lot i know for sure!

i think i prob have a pretty clear idea of what i want to change and what goals i'd have from it all (despite my rambling above), which sort of is my main reason for thinking it'd help me. like if you know some of the things you want to work on then i guess like going to the doctor you can be specific and hopefully get some help.

identify with a lot of yr post ronan.

If you find somethin PM me dogg

oh sure ronan, i didnt mean to say that you didnt know what was "wrong" with you. i just wanted to stick up for the "narcissistic rambling" model of therapy, which can be very useful to people! i think pragmatism is key, dont spend time with therapy that doesnt work for you, regardless of yr... ideological (or what have you) feelings

once you don't tell anyone else in ireland darragh

x-post to max yeah i wasn't on the defensive on that, yeah it could actually be that that's just as good, i guess it's hard to tell until you go, and prob depends on the person.

yep

sry mn just facebooked you 'lol u nuts lol'

once you don't tell anyone else in ireland darragh

lol

he went mad over the want of the pint of harp

'it's 'me time' back home'

my narcissistic rambling comment isn't, obv, directed at everybody who does talk therapy, and especialy not at introspective types or people considering therapy who haven't been before. there is a definite 'type' of professional therapy-seekers, though, who pay somebody to indulge their blah-blahing, and use the time to entrench themselves more deeply in their (often wacky) opinions. there are a TON TON TON of bad therapists who really value and believe in letting people wallow in their own shitty mire as part of a therapeutic practice, when learning to move past / effectively deal with bad situations is a much loftier, and harder, goal.

yeah no definitely...and like i think it can be hard in a way for anyone not to have a little voice that tells them it is just narcissism. but i suppose at a point you think "would i benefit from this", "do i have goals from this" and "will i be happier after", i sort of think there is potential at least for the answer to be yes to all of these. i don't actually talk to anyone about how i feel about anything, hardly ever really...

and of course i know you're making a general point btw...rather than anything specific to this thread

sorry guys, CBT means something very different in my "community"

haha

dr morbius' cbt would probably not be very helpful to ronan

it could be really good – i benefitted from visiting a talk therapist at one point, and when i came to the realization that i no longer needed to see him it was a goood 'oh, i'm okay with this situation and my psychic baggage moment'

This isn't to discourage Ronan from going but I really identify with what Remy is saying. It's so frustrating!

I haven't gone in a couple years because I got so tired of only encountering the types of therapists R is describing. It really sucks because I'd really love to find something who I work well with that could help me learn to "to move past / effectively deal with bad situations" because essentially that's what I can't figure out on my own. The whole process of finding someone new and going to enough sessions to get a feel for them is kind of a pain in the ass not to mention time consuming and costly. The thought of going through that whole process again is really daunting even though I know it would be worth it if I finally found someone good for me.

BTW when I said I've tried 4-5 that's over 10 years. I'll go through the process and get discouraged and it always takes me a while to get around to it again. I just didn't want it to seem like I was tearing through these peeps without giving them a real shot or that I was just being difficult and writing off one after another.

sorry guys, CBT means something very different in my "community"

I was all, "what could that possibly... OH DO NOT WANT"

I can't figure it out.

I think I've got the C and B parts down but not sure about the T. :(

cucumber bacon tomato is all i got

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBT

cock balls taint

"(band)"

x-post lol that was my closest guess.

Oh boy.

hahah Dan

b = between?

I know I told some wacky stories upthread but I had a lot of good therapists & the experience was very helpful, overall.

fwiw at least in me its not too hard to find someone who will mix talk therapy w/ cbt techniques

i think the two biggest determining factors in the success of treatment are the patients willings to 'put the work in' & their compatibility w/ their therapist. i know this seems to be p obv but it is easy to get focused on a specific methods of treatment or ideas abt 'whats wrong with me' & ignore the fundamental relationship @ the core of therapy

good thing i didnt start this thread, jesus

My job offered therapy services as a benefit, but only if you went to the provider they contracted with. My wife and I attempted to use this service, but the therapist we were assigned was about as competant as someone who'd read a bunch of self-help best sellers. iow she was well-meaning, tenetive, able to regurgitate a few aphorisms and mostly worse than useless.

My wife set out to find a better therapist, asking around for leads relentlessly, calling ahead to speak to the prospective therapist to ask questions. After a few months of tracking down leads, she located an excellent therapist who was extremely helpful, smart, who always asked good questions, and who developed an understanding of the situation fairly rapidly. Once we established a trustful relationship, we used her many times over a period of about a decade, and we passed her name on to many friends.

lamp otm

the clinic I was going to wanted me to have an annual appointment with their psychiatrist. The psychiatrist was a middle-aged dude and he was listening to Michael Savage in his office during our meeting, which I thought was maybe not appropriate. Anyway, I said, "My dad listens to Michael Savage," prompting him to ask if my dad knew X trivia item about Michael Savage. I had no idea. He said, "Call your dad." I said, "It's long distance, are you sure?" He said, yes, so we put my dad on speakerphone. He grilled my dad about minor points of Michael Savage trivia, and my dad knew none of them. "Looks like you don't really appreciate Michael Savage," the psychiatrist said to my dad before we ended the call.

― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott)

after reading this just seconds after the goiter post on the salt/food thread it's clear that abbott, you are the #1 ilx poster for making me explode laughing at the maddest shit

also yeah, what was the FIRST least professional therapy experience you ever had? or was that just a thing

The first worst therapy experience I had was at the same community clinic – I started out seeing one therapist who was terrible, who I am going to call Bessie. 1. I was spending 1/3rd of my time talking breaking down what I was saying to her into simpler concepts (snobby complaint maybe but it was draining). 2. She decided I was an alcoholic/drug addict and just wasn't telling her (I hadn't drank in 4 mos at this point!!) and she spent a lot of time trying to get it out of me. 3. Bessie decided she wanted to spend all of the time talking about this made-up problem & not the actual problems I came to see her about. I spent three sessions w/her and it was painfully not working*, so I asked to see another therapist. I left Bessie a message saying I did this.

The second therapist I liked a lot. During our first session, Bessie opened the door, unannounced, and demanded I explain to her why I chose to quit seeing her as a therapist. So, I told her. But it was really fucking awkward and weird! And I would rank this more unprofessional than the Savage phone call, which is at least funny.

*tough I got some dried figs out of it (not explaining how this happened (the figs were later eaten by a cascade of ants))

oh my god that savage story

"Looks like you don't really appreciate Michael Savage,"

amazing

crazy in the coconut

Abbott yr story reminds me of that bit in the Bell Jar where Esther has the arrogant useless shrink who asks her where she went to college and rambles on about how the WACS were stationed there and how pretty they were and then says "well we're done now".

got my first day today...

cbt was so much more helpful to me than any other therapy i've tried. we used chapters from this book; i keep staring at it in bookstores and forgetting to remind myself to order it cheap from amazon:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Y2yCG78ZL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg

link:

http://www.amazon.com/Anxiety-Phobia-Workbook-Fourth/dp/1572244135

xxpost, all the best with it ronan

ta for the book link jbr, I might look into that myself.

it was pretty good today, he mostly let me speak, felt like i was jumping from topic to topic but i guess he needs the groundwork. only drawback is i just got six weeks work which starts on 13th and if i change timeslot i have to change counsellor, in the system i'm in, so not sure whether to try and negotiate to have friday afternoons off (and lose half a day's pay) or to just change counselling time straight away and avoid upheaval after it's gotten into more depth...

funny I just recorded a song this morning called "everyone needs therapy"- hivemind?

by the way - I used this and it worked for me

http://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Good-Handbook-David-Burns/dp/0452281326

The Anxiety and Phobia workbook is really good.

I ordered this:

http://www.amazon.com/Disease-Please-Curing-People-Pleasing-Syndrome/dp/0071385649/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307128451&sr=1-2

Pretty sure that I have a problem with people pleasing :/

ah yes - the "approval addiction"

http://books.google.com/books?id=UaEg_ujTKEcC&lpg=PA290&ots=C-KRIbtebl&dq=the%20%22approval%20addiction%22%20burns&pg=PA290#v=onepage&q&f=false

kinda mixed results so far...i guess overall positive. counsellor mostly just lets me yammer on but i asked him to try and provide advice, not really like specific to situations but at least to act as some kind of barometer. he does say some weird sorta hard to grasp stuff, eg i talked about indecision for ages on friday and he said "i want you to hold onto that feeling of not knowing what to do in this sort of situation" and sort of didn't elaborate or stressed the "hold on to it" element. v hard to know what he meant there but i feel largely positive about him so i sort of gave benefit of the doubt.

i want you to hold on to the benefit of that doubt

Was sent for a 'wee chat' with my mum's pyschologist once, i talked about how i couldnt get a girlfriend, i was hopin for some mindtricks or something, but nada. She musta told them i was normal cos i didnt have to go again, i got some girlfriends after that but it was unrelated imo

i was talking w/a psychologist once who began quoting something from a poem by Jewel, which led me to think that maybe i was not getting my money's worth

finally found a way to do this outside of work hours affordably. v strange experience, it really is like on tv. genuinely a few "let's talk about your mother" or whatever.

overall it's good i guess, slightly scary experience in that i have found myself get very upset really suddenly few times, which was like a type of emotional catharsis i've never experienced before, but i guess that's why i'm going.

glad for you- hadn't you tried it before?

heh like five posts ago

yeah i had to stop cos i got a job and that slot was in the daytime. took until now to get a post-work time... i thought the guy was shit the first two weeks cos he literally said nothing, but now he is started dropping these questions that make you realise or see connections between things, without any heavy handedness about it.

i would heartily resent that, i think

i found the silence worse, made me think he was all "why the fuck is this guy even here?"

though as i said, it is a bit scary thinking you're okay then seeing sort of unhappiness come out in an uncontrolled way, it's like puking, it does make you think "oh shit" in that way as if you'd noticed some medical prob you never knew you had via a weird physical reaction.

Do you feel like it's helping you at all? Everyone who's recommended therapy to me haven't changed much at all, even after years of it, so I'm a little skeptical. Feels like I've already made the parents/early life connections to behaviors, world view, etc., but also won't discount checking it out.

^

had three sessions now, so it's too early to say. but i guess it is helping in the sense that i am getting rid of some bad stuff from my past mostly related to being sick. i mean, if it's true that talking about things is good then yes it's definitely helping.

as in, i'm constantly aware of having a majorly fucked upbringing, but at the same time i'm pretty level and cool with who i am, but the odd time i think 'jeez imagine how awesome i COULD be tho'

(xp)

Yeah, I imagine there's this extra level you can unlock by going to therapy. I've gotten the most out of just thinking about things and figuring shit out on long walks along rivers and through vast, empty fields, and there doesn't seem like there's much territory left to be mined out of that. Maybe the talking thing's valuable in itself, feels weird to ever mention any early life stuff to people when they ask... mostly because it's just odd in itself, and gets uncomfortable responses. Telling it to someone in a corduroy jacket and wire-frame glasses probably eliminates that.

Lol otm xp to d

i'm not lolling tho i'm ;_;

i wish ppl would realise that when they read my posts.

i'm ;_; goddamit

I took the plunge about a 6 weeks ago, 3 free sessions through employee assistance program.

Had been having weird emotional outbursts, ie crying jags, etc all kind of resulting from conflicts and/or fear of them.

Just talking out where my fears maybe came from, and having her give me some simple tools to adjust my reactions, has already made a huge difference for me.

Right now my plan is to see how I go once I visit home in April, and if shit comes up after that I can go see her again.

I felt v guilty at first, and very awkward about talking about my family to a stranger, but omg just lightening the load was the best feeling, and figuring out more parts of the jigsaw puzzle...I am not much of a personal-problem-talker at all, but I cant recommend it enough, even if it's just a few sessions.

I'm kind of viewing it as taking the car to the mechanic - no shame in getting a tuneup, right? And good to know I have someone to call if/when shit gets real now, instead of shoving it all away all repressed-like

why did you (all) select a therapist of the gender you did?

EAP programs are there for a reason. Glad you took advantage, Veg. I think it might be time for me. I have beat my last round of anxiety attacks, and now I just feel pretty bored overall :/. dunno which is worse really.

well...tbh i don't feel bored when I leave teh house and socialize (which I did a lot this weekend), but it'd be nice to be able to enjoy a relaxing night to myself without feeling flat emotions.

I'd think itw as the meds except I was like this before them. this is just how my brain works. it shuts off and I fake emotions until they come back.

i chose a female therapist with the assumption that i would be more comfortable divulging things with a woman. but not sure if this is actually the case.

my therapist doesn't remember half of what we talk about. she recommended me a book yesterday as though she had never recommended it -- but she had, twice! but this time she asked me, "if i recommend you a book, are you going to read it"? so i was like, well why don't you tell me what it is first! (and then i wondered in my head if that's the only book she ever recommends to her patients, and what, does she know the author or something? i told her i was waiting for it in the library queue and she said i should totally buy it)

i think i need a therapist who is less FRIENDLY and trying to be FRIENDLY because it makes her therapeutic pronouncements seem passive aggressive though this could be just me projecting...

or maybe it just maybe makes me not trust her because i feel like she's being fake to me?

is this things other people feel w/their therapists or just me?

I just went with the first therapist they assigned to me, I told them I didnt have a m/f preference.

My therapist turned out to be a woman around my age, a little older...she's been a good fit. I felt like she understood my issues pretty quickly, and always seemed to get to the nut of a problem with just a few questions. I told her way more than I ever expected to

Still thinking about checking out some therapy, but these two books helped me out a lot:

www.amzn.com/0553381407
www.amzn.com/0671708635

I went from perpetually anxious, angry, and emotionally dead ... to the degree where I couldn't stand leaving my apartment or I'd shuck off relationships, to almost never anxious, cool with things, and fairly level headed with some help from those texts. Most of the work comes from introspection and the sheer will to get better no matter how much work or pain's involved. Not being anxious anymore and feeling emotions is the greatest thing in the world after dealing with it from my teens through 20s.

Was going to fire my therapist today and she therapied me into making another appt.

tricky bastards

they're good when they want to be

about 10 weeks in now, it's a fucking incredibly hard thing to do i have to say. for 2/3 weeks i felt it was having this huge improvement and probably invested too much in a bounce that could have been to do with anything, then for the last week just been back to feeling fairly bad, with the added sense of questioning more of my perspectives than ever, and the realisation or worry that you know, maybe you can never really be happy. i think so far therapy has made me accept some things that i didn't before, but in the process made me then think "well if i am wrong about this then who knows what else in me could be totally skewed and messed up"

so you feel more like it's snowballing your bad feelings, than helping you build on the good?

i think overall it's positive, just i am probably going through a big overhaul, and maybe i am worse off than i thought when i went in. not in terms of being more depressed, just maybe more stuff buried, tangled, etc. it's been pretty confusing cos i am basically trying to unpick a physical prob from a mental one.

well make sure you're saying these things to your therapist. the only way they know how to really help is if you do a bit of flight-control from time to time, if talking about certain things is sending you off on a bad tangent, let him/her know, and say you want tools to deal with the bad feelings you're having now, rather than talking about things that are already past, you know, be a little proactive.

but your first time through therapy is definitely weird, I can totally relate to having similar feelings myself, and sort of feeling like you've pulled out all the yarn out of the box but it's all still tangled arrrrggggh now what

^^^ the yarn analogy is spot on

I'll drive the yarn analogy into the ground now...

the way I decided to approach it was, okay most of the yarn is going to stay tangled. I'm not using it right now, it's not causing me major problems. I just need to untangle this one ball of yarn that I need to use. As I go, I might find it's tangled with another ball of yarn or two, but I can't worry about all of it. I'm still mostly okay in myself, I'm me, this is who I am. I just need to be able to cope better with these (x) things.

You know? Making it about smaller goals is okay to start out with.

I only spent a few weeks in therapy, and it was mainly because I was having trouble dealing with conflict. My short timeframe allowed my counsellor to really hone in on that, and try to give me some tools to help me with it and unpack where my fear of conflict came from. In the process I dragged up other bigger things along with it. But just being able to feel like I'd tackled this one thing that fed into so many parts of my life, actually made me feel okay about leaving some bigger things unsolved for now. A narrow focus might seem shortsighted, but if you have a lot to deal with, you can only deal with them one at a time. Don't stress yourself out trying to deal with everything, you know?

okay I 'll stop now, I don't want to sound too preachy

I definitely had the same experience - a mixture of prioritisation ("OK what do I need to deal with now so that I don't explode, and what can wait for a bit?") and dividing problems up into smaller goals ("How can I make 'not being angry with everyone all the time' into more manageable sub-goals?").

The best thing about therapy is when you have sudden, powerful realizations about past events or particular interpersonal relationships which have colored your thinking or behavior. Things that no amount of bouncing things around in your own head would ever uncover. It can sometimes take a while to get to that point, but it's worth the slog.

^^^ this

dug through all kinds of family stuff in my sessions, stuff that I'd never really talked about, and most of my conflict stemmed from early Mum issues. Then a month or two after I'd stopped my sessions, I was skyping with my Mum and I just had this moment where I was like, she's just a person. see? just a slightly older-now lady who loves me. and it changed EVERYTHING.

it was kind of great. just seeing who she IS now without seeing who she was.

Yeah, I was starting to have some similar revelations about my dad (DIFFICULT relationship, there) that I was unfortunately unable to resolve before he died. The lesson being: the sooner you deal with this stuff, the better.

about 10 weeks in now, it's a fucking incredibly hard thing to do i have to say. for 2/3 weeks i felt it was having this huge improvement and probably invested too much in a bounce that could have been to do with anything, then for the last week just been back to feeling fairly bad, with the added sense of questioning more of my perspectives than ever, and the realisation or worry that you know, maybe you can never really be happy. i think so far therapy has made me accept some things that i didn't before, but in the process made me then think "well if i am wrong about this then who knows what else in me could be totally skewed and messed up"

― I'm going to allow this! (LocalGarda), Thursday, March 29, 2012 4:54 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Realizing how wrong you were about everything is the first step to making a new life for yourself. It's a little crazy at first, but this is it, man. The moment I realized how skewed and twisted my worldview was, I was able to just throw all it all in the garbage, incinerate it, and move on. It's a pain in the ass, but it's totally worth it, no matter how difficult or strange it is, and how many twisty interconnected webs of shit, infinite loops of bad thinking you gotta break, and painful repressed emotions to relive. I did it all w/o therapy, so not sure what your approach is, but you can totally be happy. There's a life after all the bullshit, human beings are incredibly adaptive creatures... I mean, we survived the ice age.

Good luck to you, Spectrum, that is really brave to realize that! I hope you have a rewarding future.

Thanks. I had two Joan Crawfords for parents, united in their Crawfordiness, plus a good dose of sadistic bullying, so it was pretty much imperative to face all that shit to live a halfway decent life.

otm, semi-been there

The best thing about therapy is when you have sudden, powerful realizations about past events or particular interpersonal relationships which have colored your thinking or behavior. Things that no amount of bouncing things around in your own head would ever uncover. It can sometimes take a while to get to that point, but it's worth the slog.

Definitely agree. I've had this a few times already and it feels great. I maybe overstated my despair above, think I just need not to think "I'm cured!" after these revelations.

About two sessions ago I realised that for years I've sort of internalised my physical health probs as part of me and who I am, along with all the experiences they've brought.

I suddenly realised how unfair and wrong this was, to adopt this awful thing as a part of me, something entirely negative, and to let it grow through me mentally, whatever about not being able to get rid of it physically.

As I say this felt so big that I think I got a bit eureka about what's prob still a long road/process.

probably invested too much in a bounce that could have been to do with anything, then for the last week just been back to feeling fairly bad

this happens to me too, and every time i'm like why did i let myself get fooled!! it's a very disappointing thing.

Feeling similarly... falling back into old patterns and still realizing how much work there is left to do. It's so easy to make one inch of progress and think everything's great (more like denial, I guess, nobody should want these things to be real about themselves). Just got a nice in-house writing job for a fairly well-known company, so that triggered it I'm pretty sure.

Now that I'll be making better money, I think I'll give a real therapist a shot. The hardest part right now, aside from teaching myself all the crap my parents didn't (how to work, take care of myself, relate to people, not freak out, etc.), is this feeling of resentment and insecurity at people who just seem to glide through life. I feel like such a loser sometimes, but some people are luckier than others that they don't have to do this work. But count yer blessings, etc.

You'd be surprised - the people who are gliding through life might have already been where you are now. Don't let those feelings take hold, or intimidate you into thinking you're alone/isolated/etc. A lot of what ppl project publicly is so masked - try to turn it around for yourself so you can move forward, ie you're being brave by giving a therapist a real shot, because so many people don't. And that's not even 'turn that frown upside down' wankery, cos it's true :)

Thanks, I appreciate that. It's a lot easier to just wish it all away as opposed to doing something about it, especially when our culture looks down on people, especially men, for going to therapy.

I'm sure others are out there who've survived and are living good lives, probably without me knowing it... this isn't exactly good water cooler talk. But my lord, doing this takes so much inner strength, intelligence, creativity, and utter will power that if the people who are gliding can keep this soft attitude and look of obliviousness, I have no idea how they do it. The people I've met in the career world who are survivors have been utterly miserable people, bitter, nasty, with a horrible mean streak, or prone to totally mistreating people, and I have absolutely no interest in living like that... though I recognize some of those behaviors in myself from time to time. Breaking the cycle, etc.

This feels like tearing down one life and rebuilding a completely new one. Maybe that's my personality more than anything, but I don't see any other way.

i started posting on ilx as "al" shortly before November 2001 so every time this thread is revived i do a double take wondering if i started it

xpost ehh, just ignore that big chunk of text I wrote. On further inspection, I think you're right.

Man, do I ever know that feeling of looking at others and feeling bitter that they have it so damn easy. It's true most everyone has a story (eg Veg OTM); OTOH some definitely have had it easier than others.

It can be real tough when you're trying to turn things around to see any of the progress you've made. Therapy takes a lot of effort and working through feelings and experiences and shit can take years and years. That you're doing it is courageous. You're planting seeds now that will be harvested in the future. It's hard to be patient, but keep going.

Also to the world that says therapy is for losers (esp men I guess, wtf?), I say, "Fuck that." Thousands and thousands of people do it every year, and it helps make people better. It's a better use of time and money and energy than dozens of inane things society approves of, like shopping.

I want to say I support you and your feelings are real and ok!

I'm going back into therapy as soon as I have the money or insurance (whichever comes first) to do so, even though I'm generally in a better place mentally than I've been in almost two years. It's like doing upkeep on a car: you let that shit slide too long and you pay through the nose when you have a breakdown.

Thanks, Abbottt. It's nice to feel that I'm not alone in this. Right now is the first time I've become aware of why and how I fall back into bad habits and patterns whenever something big or stressful happens, and that's when all progress is completely reversed. It's like becoming aware you're living in the Matrix or you're the Prisoner or something. So that's good at least.

My question is: now what? I'd like to go to therapy but it'll take 3 months for my benefits to kick in, and I don't have much of a support network to rely on. Confronting the honest truth is like a wave of molten lead crashing on top of me and it's hard not to get sucked in and down (or, uhhh, burned alive), especially without any support. Positive side is life is far better than years ago, and my career is starting to kick off after two extreme changes in course, so I'm lucky in that regard.

i basically did 12 weeks of this, which was state sponsored, and the dude was v good but at the end was all "make the investment in your happiness" meaning go private and pay 50 quid a week, and i just can't justify that. 200 quid a month, just insane.

i didn't really work everything out, though my 12 weeks helped a lot, and lol now i'm doing an acting class instead which was considerably cheaper. not a deliberate like for like swap but that's how it's panned out.

I just called one of those "stressed? griefy? etc? call us" employee assistance hotlines and the guy tried to talk me into seeing a counselor again –––––––––––––––– and he correctly identified (and helped me realize) that I have developed an extreme distrust of counselors/therapists over the years. Looking back over the years, I can see where it got fucked up with every single one of them. I have this little narrative that therapy helped me out but it's not so simple as that.

The anonymous phone guy was VERY easy to talk to, mostly because I'll never have to see him again! Or that he has a copy of something dumb like THE COURAGE TO HEAL that makes me judge him. Just, ok, I got problems, bye, let's never do this again!

Maybe you are looking for reasons to reject them in the end? The by-far best therapist I ever had used to quote Tony Robbins, so I had to let go of my anti-self-help-book prejudice. Anyway, sounds like you are going through some really hard stuff and I feel for you. Seeing someone sounds like a good idea.

I think it breaks down to:
- the truly bonkers therapists detailed upthread (eg the one who made me call my dad w/Michael Medved trivia questons mid-session)
- got misdiagnosed w/bipolar and was on like extreme (and extremely expensive) medications for years and years and did not start having anything like a normal work life or normal emotional life until AFTER going off meds
- they gave me a guy therapist after I got raped and I was too much like 'hmm I must not judge humanity for its many penises' Polyanna to say no, and eventually I would go home imagining him masturbating while thinking about our sessions (I think this is called 'transference' and also 'awful')
- I did have a good marriage counselor because she saw through all our bullshit but it did lead to a divorce
- didn't really help that my former mom-in-law is a therapist, and insane, and when I got raped she told me it was MY fault because I repressed a memory of my dad molesting me (my dad never molested me (this is why I would get judgey about someone having THE COURAGE TO HEAL))
- and now ILX is my therapist, sorry everyone!!

ugh. therapy can be kind of dangerous really. It's so crucial when it's good, but it can be so terrible when it's bad.

FWIW both of my mother's parents were therapists and she played therapist with me (to an inappropriate degree) my whole life. So I can relate to mistrusting therapists.

in re the guy therapist, though, (and here I'm going to go playing therapist I guess) -- I think there are times when you can actually benefit from trying to sit with those awful and uncomfortable transferrence feelings about a therapist, and that's supposed to be part of the process and all, although obviously I don't advocate doing it to the point of nauseau and trauma

ps I didn't know that's what "The Courage To Heal" was -- yuck

yeah seeing a male therapist for that was a MISTAKE

thanks for listening Hurting. Want to say I hope you don't think I was going ham on you on the feministy thread. Sorry for being such a ridiculous and petulant provocateur.

nah I didn't figure you were talking about me specifically, I was just trying to provide some context for at least some instances of "the woman seems to be doing all the child-rearing." I mean other times there's just stupid male expectations at play, for sure.

One thing I can say is that you're probably right about how you'd feel if you had kids -- that sounds very much like what new moms, including my wife, have told me about the rage they often feel, so if you ever do it, at least you won't have unrealistic expectations.

I mean not all the child-rearing but all the child-CHASING. Like I go out with friends – mom, dad, and toddler – dad's playing mandolin and drinking whiskey with the boys, mom's the one following the little making sure she's not falling into the pool. Or doing all those child-time-occupying games. "Can you count how many fallen apples there are on the ground, sweetie?" And when moms needs to use the bathroom or take a break with some wine, it's not dad that's swapped out to watch the kid, it's me. Which, I love their kid and don't mind. But that is the face of liberal hipster parenting I've seen play out at a lot of parties.

I must not judge humanity for its many penises

sorry i lol'ed

So, I'm seeing a counsellor for the second time in my life after finally reaching a plane of despair too great to ignore anymore. Had one session with her so far and think it might be constructive.

I initially found it hard to open up, which is weird considering my many anxious and grievously desperate cries of help to friends for understanding and help...which accomplished nothing. It felt like a brief purge, but solved nothing and I felt sick of going round and round in circles. I'm hoping talking to an actual counsellor will be more productive, but I can't imagine anyone being able to get me to solve my problems. But perhaps that's because there are some things I'm holding back?

I dunno what the point of this post was, I just didn't want to revive the depression thread again, maybe get some more insight from therapy veterans?

I'm not a veteran and I'm not sure I have much insight but my experience has been that if, in any way, you manage in therapy to express something that you would have kept inside you, formless and wordless, then therapy is/has been worth it

Dude, it's good to have sought help, and I really hope that it will be productive for you. The only thing I can say with any confidence is that: you have been living in your own mind for decades, and you are the expert on the inside of your own head. If you feel like it will be constructive, then it probably will be constructive for you!

Learning to really open up is difficult, and it often takes time. I was in therapy for much of my teens, and it was really helpful at that time, but unfortunately, it also taught me "How To Talk To Therapists And How To Express 'Emoting' To Therapists In A Way That Convinces Therapists" - which is not actually the same thing as opening up. Opening up takes trust - trust in your therapist (so that feeling that it will be constructive is good!) - but also trust in yourself.

If you've experienced a lot of crazy-shaming (either externally or internally) or had people pull away from you when you've told them how bad it's really got inside, it can be hard to let yourself open up all the way. If you're really used to holding back or hiding bits of yourself in order to seem more presentable or less crazy to others, it's difficult to actually convince yourself "no, really, I can say *anything* in this space, even the really really bad stuff."

A good therapist will actually be trained in breaking that "round and round in circles" feeling. Or at least getting you to look at the circle from outside, and saying "what is this circle? let's look at the actual circle rather than engaging the thought in it" rather than letting you run round it in a counter-productive way. (At least, that's what I've found useful in a therapist.)

Maybe this is helpful to you! Maybe it isn't! I apologise if it's not. I hope that you have a good experience with it. Maybe other people here can provide you more helpful advice?

what BB raises reminds me of what I was trying to get at when I started a thread on "when to quit therapy?" which was kinda killed by being moved to 77.
One of my lingering questions has always been: is this threapist any good? is this therapy doing me any good? Since, for most people, experience with therapists will be extremely limited - it's pretty hard to know what makes a good one.

The only thing I can tell you is that what makes a therapist "good" is your sense that this therapist is *doing* you good, that you feel better, that you are able to live your life with more ease, and get along better with others. (And also, if you are lucky to have friends or loving family and a wider community, that they will notice - or tell you if asked - you seem so much happier/more at ease.)

There isn't really a abstract, external, objective "good" or "bad" here; there is only "works for you" vs "does not work for you". And the only person who can judge that is you (or, perhaps, if you have friends/family who have known you very well for a very long time). I wish I had an easier, more definitive answer for you! Sorry this isn't more helpful, but saying anything more concrete would really feel like I was spinning bullshit, or trying to impose mine own standards on others.

I've found that you can't weed out the good therapists from the OK ones until after the first few cathartic sessions. At least for me. Every therapist I went to seemed great for the first few sessions until we got some basic stuff under control, and then it just started to feel not so helpful.

I don't know if it's an option for you, but trying out a few therapists until you find one who works well with you is worth it, in my opinion. After 2 years of off and on therapy with various therapists that I would find unhelpful after a few months, I've finally found an amazing therapist, and I'm so glad I didn't try to stick it out with those other therapists when they stopped working for me.

(As for what makes them good, BB is right in that you will either find the sessions to be helpful or not helpful. The guy I'm seeing now is the first one where we've had consistently positive sessions--not every single one was as equally therapeutic as the other but I've been with him for almost a year and have never left a session wondering if it's even worth it to continue. With all my other therapists, usually by the 4th or 5th session, I started to wonder if therapy was worth continuing.)

You need patience with therapy. Remember you are starting from scratch with a professional who knows nothing about you, and they need some time to even grasp what your issues really are. I would also say you have to look at the overall process over time and not just whether each session feels "therapeutic."

For me, at least, a good therapist was able to kind of "interrupt" my damaging mental processes and challenge them. And also, to get me to break the ice of my elaborate rationalizations and start to be aware of the feelings beneath them, which I was scarcely aware existed.

Yes def good to get a feel for your overall sense of progress!

thanks for the detailed input, everyone. as this is a state-run thing, I only get 9 sessions lasting around an hour each (although my therapist has said she's willing to add extra time outside of the mandated ones if need be).

I think things will be OK. I'd definitely want to pursue that mental "interruption", as my mind is like a runaway horse once it gets going.

maria started seeing this older clueless therapist who is not the swiftest (like maybe she's new at it.) and to test her out maria mentioned that she grew up with a gay mom and that she was bisexual and the therapist got all nervous and said "well...uh...uh..i know it can be hard..uh...for people to deal with hobophobia..."

hahaha!

maria is on the lookout for a new therapist.

I wonder what the quality control is for independent therapists. are they using evidence based techniques??

maria said that this therapist would basically repeat back everything that maria said to her only in a longer way. which took up more then half of her time there! didn't sound ideal.

I dont think it’s great that dudes can just set up their own practice and rake in $$$ while providing no useful service whatsoever besides a listening board. No accountability, no on-the-job training or whatever when new developments arise, no collaboration with other therapists, just a total shit sandwich.

My last ex and I talked about couples counseling before it ended (we didn't end up going), but I was shocked at how expensive it was... I spoke with one woman who was quite nice, almost ready to book an appointment - she said it was $275 for a 50 minute session, but the first session should be double-length to really get to know each other so that would be $550! I almost had a heart attack

many people I have talked to who went to therapy thought it was no use and this is very disappointing. Maybe there should be some kind of other certification or Yelp or something. I mean who is measuring the outcomes of these therapists? If peopel think it is no good they just stop going

Don't you have to have some kind of training or certification? Or you can just call yourself a therapist?

of course you need some kind of training or certification. a quick google search will clear that up for you. i'm sure it's different everywhere/regionally/nationally but obviously there is some standard of training.

it's like accreditation for higher ed aiui -- there are accredited schools (good) and unaccredited schools (bad) and sadly it's on the customer/student/client/patient to determine if a care provider is sufficiently accredited.

Psychologist here. It's a pretty confounding landscape. There are absolutely certifications needed in order to use certain terminology, but as LL says, there are wide variations from state to state in the US and surely from country to country as well. Profession names like "psychologist" tend to be well regulated. "Therapist" is tricky because there are all sorts of therapists - physical, respiratory, etc., but generally people can't use that word if they aren't accredited in some way, in some profession. "Counselor" is even more slippery. "Coach" aiui is totally unregulated, which is why you see lots of people who fancy themselves therapists hanging out their "life coach" shingle without any training or accountability whatsoever. And some of them are great! But if you're making an investment, nice to maximize the chances that you'll get someone who actually has some expertise to offer you.

Andy the Grasshopper - not sure where you're located but that is exorbitant. Not so much the hourly rate (although I totally get how much of a nonstarter it is for most people), but asking for double length. I am assuming that is an out-of-pocket quote from a therapist who doesn't take insurance. When you bill insurance, there are higher reimbursement rates for initial sessions to help offset the fact that they may be longer, but it is not double, and ime private pay folks may charge like 150% of their usual for an intake, but not double. Whether or not the average therapist takes insurance is another thing that varies widely by region - in wealthy urban areas people tend to get away with being private pay only, whereas elsewhere it can be hard to fill a caseload that way. But even when someone doesn't take insurance, good therapists who have their shit together should be offering to support you with submitting reimbursement paperwork so that you can get at least a portion of their oppressive rates back.

Oh one more thing to add -- in many states and disciplines you have to accrue supervised hours after getting a degree but before you can sit for a licensing/certification exam. So there are also lots of unlicensed folks operating out there under someone else's supervision. That should all be disclosed at the outset, and is more likely to be in a larger institution like a big group practice or a community mental health center. But people can pay someone to supervise them when working independently too in some circumstances. Paradoxically, while those folks are generally very green, it can be a perk that you sometimes also get the benefit of their supervisor's wisdom filtering back into the work, and at the very least there's some accountability there that can disappear once they are able to strike out on their own. But there's no question that results vary wildly in all of these cases. Ultimately psychotherapy is such an inexact and individualized science that there's bound to be a lot of trial and error involved to find someone who is both actually good/knowledgeable, and a good fit for a particular client. Which sucks because it can be so hard to find a therapist that the idea of shopping around and trying a few, which is highly recommended, is often a pipe dream.

I am happy to use this thread as an "ask a therapist" space anytime. I'm in Massachusetts btw

thanks for the offer!

Andy the Grasshopper - not sure where you're located but that is exorbitant

This was in the Silicon Valley, where everything is expensive. She did not accept insurance, as far as I recall... and I'm with an HMO that has their own team of therapists ('pick from one of seven'), but I highly doubt that includes couples counselors

Lavator Shemmelpennick my concern is over time, years after getting a degree, are therapists keeping up with current research?

I am interested in the TEAM version of CBT - https://feelinggoodinstitute.com/what-is-team-cbt-therapy

One thing that seems good about it is there is an element of testing the therapy sessions to see if the patient is actually getting anything out of them

I agree psychology tends to cover such a nebulous terrain of human life - very complex problem with complex solutions. And the blurry line between what is medicine and what is philosophy

It's likely they have to do periodic continuing medical education courses to keep up with the latest stuff. That's been the case with the doctors I've worked with over the years. They weren't psych docs but I bet it's similar.

I'm almost done with my course of CAT and while it's been interesting I don't think it's helped as much as I'd have liked and now I'm at a loss for what to do next.

Never heard of CAT before. SOunds like its meant to be kind of a quick treatment. I like bibliotherapy and I've been enjoying this

https://www.newharbinger.com/9781886230354/feeling-better-getting-better-staying-better/

Any pharmacist up in here? Seems like an awful job

Why

I am happy to use this thread as an "ask a therapist" space anytime. I'm in Massachusetts btw

― Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 10 October 2024 15:59 (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Likewise, I’m in training if you want to, uh, “Ask an inexperienced therapist”

x-post - Pharmacists have to take A LOT of shit from people.

They do! My local chemist is responsible for the area’s methadone patients’ scripts and it’s both exasperating and heartbreaking for them as practitioners.

So, I had a session with my therapist today and I noticed a guitar case in her room. She’s maybe 40, very sweet and kinda soft spoken. We click really well. So at the end of the meeting we’re wrapping things up and small talking, and I ask her about the guitar.

She tells me that someone gave her the guitar and a guy across the hall from her office teaches guitar so she started taking lessons, going on about a year.

I asked her what she likes to play the most, and she pauses for a second and says “Do you know GG Allin?”

“What?!? Yes…”

“I like to play his songs. He’s kinda crude and... you know, I have to be really polite and proper here. I can let something out when I play that.”

The next session might be my last because I’ve been feeling a lot better for a while and i’m bummed that I don’t get to see her anymore. I imagine people don’t usually become buddies with their therapists, but she’s the coolest person in this town.

Ok, she rules

Now that’s a different kind of interaction. Very nice

haha that is not what i was expecting yikes

"well I'm something of a murder junkie"

would you say she's been a good *Mentor* to you? (hi-hat splash)

She’s seen some shit

I have a bass. She and I need to start a band.

From therapy sessions... to JAM SESSIONS

"kinda crude"

some of The Jabbers stuff is downright catchy