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Presidential Debate: Round 3 (Going the Distance!)

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Well, I'm gonna beat myself up one last time and stay up into the wee hours of the night to catch this one. I think as long as Kerry doesn't fuck this one up, he should at least be in position for a close showing, if not an outright win.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Sunday, 10 October 2004 22:26 (twenty-one years ago)

now i'm here i guess i might as well catch this.

― Hari Ashurst (Toaster), Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not for another three days.

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

i guess i should sleep before then.

― Hari Ashurst (Toaster), Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

It might be more entertaining if you stay up for three days first. Get that nice sleep deprivation psychosis buzz goin'.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

You might hallucinate that Kerry is a loaf of bread. That'd be interesting.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 10 October 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm a little worried.
Kerry did well in the first debate because the foreign issues in this race are dynamic, they actually pertain to the immediacies of Bush's administration. Bush had to defend himself and his own personal choices. But with domestic issues, both sides are going to say the same things their parties have said for the last twenty years, which is a good thing for Bush. You could see it happening a little already in the second debate; there isn't anything Kerry can say about these things that Bush won't be able to have prepared an answer for, because everything that could possibly be said about them has been said already. And it could just be me, but it always seemed like taxes and abortion are bigger vote shifters than health care and education. The only real advantage I can see Kerry having is his surprisingly attractive take on taxation.
Anybody want to help me out here? I'd love to have my fears assuaged (but Kerry did flub that abortion question awfully).

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Monday, 11 October 2004 06:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Plus also since when did this frivolous medical lawsuit issue appear? It's bullshit, and the only reason it exists is to (unsuccessfully) try to make Edwards look bad, and eat up time that could be spent on real issues.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Monday, 11 October 2004 06:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you just answered your own question re: why the issue suddenly appeared.

It's interesting that Kerry is much better on foreign policy and goes back to the talking points when he gets to domestic policy. This wasn't how the Democrats had planned to run this campaign, I'm sure. (I also halfway suspect Kerry deliberately stayed low-key through much of debate 2 in order to keep the spotlight on Bush.)

I think Kerry can really nail Bush on health care, though. It's a huge problem for almost everyone. He's got a fairly good plan and Bush's record on this issue is just toxic, as he dumped tons of money into that prescription drug benefit, strongarmed Congress into passing it, hid the real costs from lawmakers, ran up the deficit further in the process, did nothing for the uninsured, did nothing about importing drugs from Canada, prevented Medicare from getting discounts from the drug companies, and what's more.. Seniors hate it. Democrats generally win on domestic policy anyway, so I think Kerry just has to be clear and show where Bush has failed..

― daria g (daria g), Monday, 11 October 2004 07:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I was 10 in 1992. Could someone that followed the race that year tell me if health care was actually a successful rallying point for the Democrats or if it was just made to look like one? People are so weirdly apathetic about it these days. I mean, they say it's important to them, but it seems like no one likes to listen to a candidate talk about it.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Monday, 11 October 2004 07:12 (twenty-one years ago)

This should be a cinch. All he has to do is ask Americans to look at their pay stubs to see how much they (and their employers) shell out to healthcare insurers. And point out how divorced we are, on a really basic level, from the true cost of care (honestly, seeing a $10 Kotex pad on my mom's itemised hospital bill amongst other outrages) and it's time to do something real about that.

Also, most sole traders have to contribute double the Social Security funds because those on a salary go halvsies with employers, and they're well paranoid that's going to disappear just when they need it. My mom is surely not the only one shelling out more than $3,000 a year for the most basic insurance, with something like a $1000 deductible (or 100 Kotex) - and she's a sole trader paying double Social Security. A lot of these people are Republicans or Reagan Democrats for whom healthcare is a major issue; if they employ staff there are tons of issues relating to benefits provision for those people amounting to health enfranchisement - and we know that people are becoming more disenfranchised in this area under Bush.

When he gonna roll out 'Again, here's another case where W stands for wrong'?

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 11 October 2004 07:32 (twenty-one years ago)

That W for Wrong stuff is the kind of vacuous bullshit I've always been sort of proud that Democrats don't indulge in nearly as much as the assholes on the right. I hope nobody anywhere near Kerry's campaign says anything like that in the future.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Monday, 11 October 2004 07:52 (twenty-one years ago)

haha, third debate in my BRANE:

K: here's another case of where W stands for wrong
B: yeah, and F stands for FUCK OFF LIBERAL SCUM
K: haha W for Wanker more like

FITE!!!

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 11 October 2004 08:14 (twenty-one years ago)

haha Carsmile, Kerry hasn't campaigned on what his middle initial stands for, but Bush has! So it's fair comment. W for wrong is actually being done in a low-key way on Kerry's own website: 'the W stands for Wrong for women' so go bitch at them, those who dislike such things.

W = Wrong is short, to the point, and CORRECT. What's more, the pithiness can be followed by the W that stands for why...

Anyway, healthcare?

― suzy (suzy), Monday, 11 October 2004 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry should ask him what he thinks about "george w pussy" by David Boyle.

― Hari Ashurst (Toaster), Monday, 11 October 2004 11:01 (twenty-one years ago)

1992 - 'It's the Economy Stupid'

― It wasn't me (daveb), Monday, 11 October 2004 12:02 (twenty-one years ago)

But with domestic issues, both sides are going to say the same things their parties have said for the last twenty years, which is a good thing for Bush.

polls consistently show that the majority of Americans agree with Democrats on domestic issues, so I'm not sure if your observation is true.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 11 October 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Although I do think it's a mistake to underestimate the resonance of Republican pet issues, my major point was that a domestic debate puts Bush on familiar ground; he can recycle the same talking points that he's used for a decade. Bush did so bad in the first debate because the situation in Iraq is relatively new and continues to evolve, whereas every possible gambit, attack, response, and talking point regarding the issues that will come up on Wednesday has long since been pounded into the Republican collective unconscious. Even those of the stupid ones.

― Dan I., Monday, 11 October 2004 17:44 (twenty-one years ago)

("'that' of the stupid ones"? I don't know)

― Dan i., Monday, 11 October 2004 17:45 (twenty-one years ago)

National healthcare felt possible in 1992 in a way that it doesn't feel now. In part because the whole healthcare debacle in Clinton's first term went so badly, but also because healthcare costs seem to have skyrocketed in the last decade, which makes the prospect of a national healthcare seem much more expensive and unlikely.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 11 October 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

kerry's plan is NOT for national healthcare as a whole.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Monday, 11 October 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

How old is the "flip-flop" meme anyway? I remember doing a mock '88 presidential election in grade school and referring to Gephardt as a flip-flopper.

― bnw (bnw), Monday, 11 October 2004 18:39 (twenty-one years ago)

It began when John Quincy Adams was caught in a strong breeze, and it was found that his powdered wig was not secure.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 11 October 2004 18:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I worry about this debate because I think its easier for Bush to hide behind his shield of lies when it comes to statistics for funding/appropriation and all that kind of fuzzy bullshit they employ to get the legislation passed in the first place.

I also wish they had a chance to bring up Kerry's "nuisance" quote in this debate because it would give Kerry a chance to stress how he would actually get some fucking results in the War on Terruh rather than using it as a weapon to keep the nation in a state of constant fear.

― still bevens (bscrubbins), Monday, 11 October 2004 18:47 (twenty-one years ago)

It's hard for me to say, but from the look of the coverage from a would-be neutral site like Yahoo, you'd think Bush was miles ahead in this thing.

And this is my major fear - it doesn't matter how good Kerry does in the debates, b/c the remaining few weeks of the campaign is more than enough time for the press to pretend that they didn't happen and that Bush winning is a foregone conclusion.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Tuesday, 12 October 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

The Oregonian uncharacteristically decided to support Kerry in this election (Clinton is the only other Democrat they've supported in the past howevermany decades), and according to them, it was the debates that pushed them over the edge.

But I think the insanely huge push to register new voters (and presumably the get out the vote efforts which will follow) are going to have much more of an effect than the debates did.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 12 October 2004 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

for my part in a get-out-the-vote effort, i stood with another guy on a busy corner during the afternoon commute, holding aloft a sign reminding folks to Vote Early.

Oh yeah, and i was wearing my mexican-wrestling mask & red cape whilst doing this. people were happy. i got a hug from a skinny hipster chick, and a latino guy on his way home from work stopped to take my picture, since his officemate is a big fan of luchadors...

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 01:46 (twenty-one years ago)

is it weird that the President is basically huddling with advisors to prepare for a debate? Like, maybe he should be able to debate without a lot of advice?? And he's in Crawford again?
He declares war, and then declares "mission accomplished" and then, for the election, IGNORES his responsibilities in order to prepare for the debates! Jezum crow - this man is the leader of the free world?
And he's getting away with it! Noone is criticizing his lazy pseudo Texan stupid ass.

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 02:06 (twenty-one years ago)

now i need to figure out how to set the timer on the vcr. ugh.

― youn, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Noone is criticizing his lazy pseudo Texan stupid ass.

This is hardly the case.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 02:20 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4041

holy shit. the gloves are off now, ain't they? even at the onion's offices. Check the lead story for tomorrow's ish:


Cheney Vows to Attack U.S. if Kerry Elected
GREENSBORO, NC—In an announcement that has alarmed voters across the nation, Vice President Dick Cheney said Monday that he will personally attack the U.S. if Sen. John Kerry wins the next election.

"If the wrong man is elected in November, the nation will come under a devastating armed attack of an unimaginable magnitude, one planned and executed by none other than myself," Cheney said, speaking at a rally in Greensboro, NC. "When they go to the polls, Americans must weigh this fact and decide if our nation can ignore such a grave threat..."

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 04:16 (twenty-one years ago)

of course, balance that article with this one...

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 04:19 (twenty-one years ago)

The Edwards article totally made me lose my shit

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 04:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I should add that John Kerry and I will keep America strong. I won't bore you with a bunch of fucking specifics. Just know that, should you elect John Kerry, we'll be able to bounce a goddamn quarter off our border! We'll have big impenetrable gates made of gumdrops and, I don't know, gold. Whatever the fuck! And they'll magically slide open when someone pure of heart approaches and says, "Let me back in, America! My Caribbean cruise was nice, but there's no place like home!"

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 04:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Noone is criticizing his lazy pseudo Texan stupid ass.

You mean the guy from Herman's Hermits?

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 04:33 (twenty-one years ago)

See, but the Cheney article was more believable.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 05:12 (twenty-one years ago)

If Kerry paces back and forth behind Bush he can throw him off his game completely!

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20041012/mdf722187.jpg

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 05:14 (twenty-one years ago)

That Edwards piece is awesome. I kinda have this theory that the whole Johnny Sunshine thing is a sham and Edwards is this cold, calculating type who's mostly about his own ambition. I also think Kerry figured this out waaaayy early on and decided Edwards was the best strategic choice (because the voters and the media will never figure him out) & saw that Edwards would not make mistakes. The only profile I've read that gets at this side of Edwards was, oddly, in Vogue..

I'm smiling so wide, the top of my head might fall off!

― daria g (daria g), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 06:45 (twenty-one years ago)

are there websites which will be showing the debate live? or will i be restricted to listening on the radio?

― toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 10:59 (twenty-one years ago)

The Cheney-will-attack Onion piece is great because it's so close to what he's actually saying between the lines (all the terrifying stuff about radiological devices in US cities), and only a slight exaggeration of Republican stategy, the 'If you're not with us you're a terrist and we have the right to attack you pre-emptively' line. The one thing they got wrong is that Cheney won't wait until after the election to attack. In fact, The Onion do hint at this at the end of their spoof, with Ridge's 'Every percentage point conceded to Kerry brings the nation under greater threat of attack by Cheney' containing just a hint of 'October Surprise'. Thank God Tony Blair will at least consult with Tony Blair before launching his pre-emptive strike, and Tony will use his influence to bring the United Nations into the process.

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 11:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Tony Blair Dick Cheney (but the slip is quite funny too)

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 11:14 (twenty-one years ago)

The Guardian has assembled a democratic toolkit to enable people from Basildon to Botswana to campaign in the presidential race. Amongst other things, they're twinning their readers with registered Independents in Clark County, Ohio and urging them to write polite letters trying to influence them to cast a vote, and cast it well. They're also looking into ways people outside the US can legally spend money on influencing the outcome of the most important election in years for people both inside and outside the US.

I think this is a fantastic 'toolkit'. There should be no invasion without representation, yet invasion is precisely what George Bush compelled Britain to participate in. We've earned the right to influence the choice of his successor.

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 11:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't mean noone is criticizing Bush in general - I am criticizing his need to run to Texas and spend days preparing for a debate. Because, in the best of all possible worlds, the president would be prepared to debate on any given day he is in office. The fact that the president needs to be coached - and really doesn't try to hide that fact - is alarming. This is the most vacationing president ever - every time I turn on the tv it seems like he's off to Texas again. I'm stupefied and feel like I'm pointing out the obvious. He should not have to take three days off to prepare every time he is asked to debate in front of the public! Imagine if you were asked to defend your abilities in your workplace - ie why should we continue to employ you? Sorry, boss, I need to take the next three days off to prepare my response. AND we are all asked to defend our abilities in the workplace every day - simply by the fact that jobs are scarce, and if you have one you probably want to keep it. Grim news comes from Iraq every day , and the president who initiated this war thinks it is "OK" to just, well, fly to his ranch and prepare for a debate. HE SHOULD ALREADY BE PREPARED.

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 11:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Meanwhile, in Texas... "the spain rain falls plainly mainly...the raining Spain falls mainlike and plain...the rain in....GODDAMNIT, Karl, what does this have to do with freedom?!!"

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 12:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm too afraid that Kerry's gonna get slammed to watch this.

GO YANKEES!

― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 14:56 (twenty-one years ago)

The fact that the president needs to be coached - and really doesn't try to hide that fact - is alarming.

This is a non-issue.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes. It's not like Kerry isn't being coached, or like every candidate since the debates began hasn't been coached.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Anybody see Frontline last night?

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Youn, I have not been able to do that for over a decade myself. I have no such machine now.

Momus: I agree with you about our right to intervene. I find your optimism endearing, though probably excessive.

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

This is a non-issue.

hmm?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I hope Kerry's tax strategy actually plays as well as it felt like it did last time. If it's really true that 19% of Americans think that they're in the top 1% tax bracket, he could be in trouble.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait I'm confused now about the coaching thing. Are we talking about him spending lots of time before the debate preparing (with advisors) or using a wire during the debate? They're two different things.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

All I know is that I'm all for any hubbub that makes Bush nervous and defensive.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah - meeting w/ advisors to fine-tune yr soundbites & tweak the language of your message (which EVERY politician does prior to a debate, I would hope!) isn't equivalent to wearing an earpiece & trying to repeat what someone's telling you to say. (Fucking fuck I just reposted Dan's last post nearly verbatim.)

Unless maybe the Texas debate prep for Bush is for trying to find a way to make the wire less obvious.

― David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

"Because, in the best of all possible worlds, the president would be prepared to debate on any given day he is in office."

I expect (naively) that anyone who holds this job should be ready to debate every day. It is what I am expected to do at my job - defend my position, be able to state clearly and succinctly why I am there and why i should stay in that job. Kerry is obviously being coached - but he's not defending his job. And i HATE having a president who seems to think it's OK to retreat for three days to prepare for a debate that he should have been capable of engaging in when he decided to run for president. Clinton could talk. Put Clinton in a debate and he would out talk his opponents. The fact that Bush is being coached - and takes three days off per debate to be coached - is simply an aberration of what it means to be "Employed". I want my president to be able to debate off the cuff. I hate Bush - that's obvious - and I hate everything he purports to stand for. BUT - if he is the person who stands in power, is it too much for me to ask him to be able to state his opinions and policies without three days of preparation?
Every day there is more bad news - and the man I did not elect thinks it is quite fine to spend three days preparing for a debate on his policies.
Can I get those benefits?

― aimurchie, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't seen much of the news reaction to the last debate. Are they really calling it a "draw"? Kerry so obviously won that I thought.

Bush does seem somewhat desperate in the latest stump speeches. He's hitting harder. He's using the word "liberal" more and criticized Kerry's "pre 9-11" mindset, basically implying that the U.S. will get under a Kerry administration. Same argument they delgated Cheney to make a few weeks back and the President refused to comment on.
I'm hoping Bush comes out more angry and aggressive because I don't think it really did him any favors in the last debate.

― herbert hebert (herbert hebert), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I shall miss tonight's third 'debate', for I shall be sitting in the local Kerry campaign office making phone calls to likely voters, trying to identify Kerry votes, so they can be contacted in later 'get out the vote' efforts.

This is how close elections are won - and I would strongly recommend that any of you who feel four more years of BushCo would be an unparalleled disaster should contact your local Kerry campaign headquarters and volunteer to help get out the vote on election day. Do it soon, so the volunteer coordinator can plan for your participation, since it is a massive and complex operation that takes preplanning.

― Aimless (Aimless), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

You're going to be calling during the debates?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Pundits seem to think it was a draw, but post-debate polling shows a clear win for Kerry.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

It shouldn't be a surprise that the media wants to call the last one a draw. This election is so divisive that if they went "AWWW SHIT! KERRY BE SPANKIN' THAT ASS!" Bushoids wouldn't watch.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

chris, yes. There are only so many hours between now and the election and all of them need to be used.

― Aimless (Aimless), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Just speaking for myself, I'd be cranky if I got interrupted by election folks during the debate. Can't talk now, I'm listening to the person you want me to vote for.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

It'd be like tapping someone on the shoulder at a Kerry rally and asking them if they're gonna vote during the speech itself.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I agree that every moment counts, and all. And it certainly would be good to remind people that the debates are happening "right now", since Kerry's (or, you know, Bush's) performance at the debate will probably help mobilize voters.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)

You shouldn't assume that every person I call will be watching the debate already, because that will not be true. Only some will be be.

Also, the people who are certain Kerry votes generally are quite nice to campaign volunteers during the less-than-a-minute the phone call takes. I try to be pleasant and respectful to everyone, regardless.

― Aimless (Aimless), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't forget, too, that the third debate is the least-watched.

― Girolamo Savonarola, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, aren't there games tonight?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, both Yankees vs. Red Sox and Astros vs. Cardinals.

― Aimless (Aimless), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, for every person he interrupts watching the debates, there'll be another one who had been watching the game and might then switch to the debate where he/she'll hopefully see Kerry putting the hurt on Bush.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

My motto: Volunteering for Kerry is a big, personal slap in Bush's face. Try it yourself and see.

― Aimless (Aimless), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Can I put them both together in a small, dark, dank room and smack them both in the face.
Personally.
Repeatedly.
With a cricket bat.
With a rusty nail in it.
Until they beg to die?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

(*CUSTOS IS DRAGGED OFF BY AGENTS OF HOMELAND SECURITY*)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm starting to feel pretty confident. Under relatively normal conditions, I don't see things getting any worse for Kerry in the next few weeks, and all he needs right now is the tiniest of budges. If there's no October surprise (a big if, obviously), I think the incumbent effect and unbalanced voter registration (in Dem favor) should more than overcome the institutionalized voter fraud that will occur (there'll be a hell of a lot more people watching the process right from the beginning in Florida this time), and the FOB media blitz (including the Sinclair show, of course, but also don't be fooled into thinking Team America, almost definitely to be #1 at the box office during a crucial week, isn't part of it).

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry, that didn't really pertain to tonight's debate, this was just the first election 04 thread on the new answers page.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

This is the same Team America that produced dark mutterings of complaint from Bush officials back in July or so when they first became aware of it, yes? (I see your point but I can't imagine that Rove was thinking that a movie that shows puppets fucking is going to energize an evangelical base.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyone know when/where this will be on in the UK tonight, or if the debate or portions of it will be rerun anytime tomorrow?

― sgs (sgs), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

This is for a different thread but fuck it. It's not the evangelical base that the movie will energize, obviously, it's know-nothing jingoists who are able to detect irony but ignore it. The supposed central conceit of the movie, that the foreign policy of the United States causes more damage than it prevents, will be ignored by viewers who recognize its truth but just don't care. What real political effect the film will have will come from its insults towards liberals (just as Bush makes that his primary talking point) and the perceived culture of the left (France, etc).
The movie panders to the culture of the right. That Matt and Trey are supposedly libertarians is a red herring.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I doubt the Sinclair special will be anywhere near as big a boon to the Bush campaign as Team America. The youth vote is malleable. They's minds is squishy, like soft, stupid grapes.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

You do realize that you're equating this film and its effects with, I dunno, William Bennett saying Ice-T made 'young people' want to kill cops (or whatever example you'd care to name).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm saying that this is how Jesse Ventura got elected.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Ice-T did reaffirm to kids that cops weren't to be trusted. Likewise, this film will reaffirm that being pro-Bush will make you uncool in the eyes of the South Park overlords.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Both cases were exaggerated jokes based on genuine beliefs that the conservatives are taking hyper-literally.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I hope Kerry's tax strategy actually plays as well as it felt like it did last time. If it's really true that 19% of Americans think that they're in the top 1% tax bracket, he could be in trouble.

This is why Kerry has been saying "Those making over 200,000" rather than "top 2%". It's a harder stat to be confused about.

― Symplistic (shmuel), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, good point.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Also: how fucked is it that the Nevada voter registration scam story doesn't seem to have national legs?

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

It's that "liberal media" to blame, again.

― why do old people and old users of ILX such bastardos (deangulberry), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I know! There should be fucking investigative reporters all over that bitch. People should be finding out who knew what, who told who what and when, if other similar GOP-funded groups engaged in the same sort of shit, etc. I doubt any of that will happen.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:16 (twenty-one years ago)

sgs: It's on BBC1 (well, News24, but you know) and it's listed as 1 o'clock, but I don't know when the debate starts - you might get an hour of news first.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Someone is totally going to admonish the RNC and it will be RAD!

― why do old people and old users of ILX such bastardos (deangulberry), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:21 (twenty-one years ago)

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/bush_strategery.jpg

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

It's 9AM ET, so unless the US "fell back" w/o me knowing about it, that makes it 2am UK time.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:49 (twenty-one years ago)

9 PM, you mean.

― why do old people and old users of ILX such bastardos (deangulberry), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks Kevin and Tracer, I can't stay up to watch it (especially since I'd probably end up yelling at the TV like an old man) but am hoping to catch some story or other about it tomorrow sometime.

By the way Tracer, when I was last in America I went to a wedding party and talked to a guy there who grew up with you in Tennessee.

― sgs (sgs), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Hopefully Kerry will give a shout out to bushkilledsuperman.com.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:55 (twenty-one years ago)

it is on.

― :|, Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Tom Brokaw technically alive?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 13 October 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

where can I stream this online? I'm at work!

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

is there a good place to stream this online? cspan.org is down


xpost

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

npr has audio, at least

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Check the site for your local NPR station.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"freedom is on the march!!"

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I haven't seen much of the debates ... does Bush always have that smirk on his face, even when he isn't talking?

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

BUSH: SPREADING FREEDOM AND LIBERTY LIKE BUTTER.

You thought it, I said it.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:04 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm sorry, Mr. Afghani, but you musn't vote until at least one young woman does."

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

is 'exaggeration' the longest word he's ever said?

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

he stumbled over it, too

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

will my job be outsourced to afghan warlords?

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

We're getting our flu vaccines from Canada? Isn't Canadian medicine dangerous?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Mp3 audio stream

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

"Prior-tize"

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

indeed!

but remember it's englands fault

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

O PETTY AMERICANS, BOW TO CANADIAN VACCINES OR ELSE THE FLU WILL STRIKE YOU DOWN

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:07 (twenty-one years ago)

bush in evading the question shocker

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

There a flu crisis in England? Huh?

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

is it clear to you now that the lines are fed to him? what the hell was the timing on that last answer?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush won the entrance. But Kerry's already running away with it again. We'll see if Bush can pull back.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

WHAT! NO FLU VACCINE BECAUSE OF OUT-OF-CONTROL LITIGATION HE DID NOT JUST SAY THAT.

and now he says "just don't get a flu shot"!!!!!!! THANKS PREZ!!!!!!

xpost yes, England also suddenly accidentally had scarcely any flu "jabs" as they call them

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

havent they told bush that the audience has agreed on being silent? why does he keep makign the funny.

― :|, Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i can't believe bush just told people not to get flu shots this year!

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:09 (twenty-one years ago)

"Prior-tize"

OTM

'blame england! they gave us the messed up medicine! i was on the phone with tony blair last night...'

xpost-- yeah, i thought he looked like he was fed answers when he switched to litigation mid sentence

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Gabbneb, if they're feeding him lines, they're SHIT lines...ooh, LITANY.

Kerry homing in on an arse-kick on healthcare...

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

"litney"

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

what? he's the only president in history? what happened to the end of that?

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush is frothing at the mouth. He's got that little-deposits-of-spittle-in-the-corners-of-the-mouth thing going on. And that jaw is getting a workout again. He's gotta be on something.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG THE DEMS ARE TALKING ABOUT FISCAL DISCIPLINE?? THE WORLD IS FUCKED UP!

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

the second bush opened his mouth tonight, i said "yup. coke."

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Funny tie faux pas.

xpost Yeah colette Kerry forgot where he was going with that.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

"Litany of complaints" was pretty damn good.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

'dud-n't'?

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

the second bush opened his mouth tonight, i said "yup. coke."

after 10 years on the wagon! So sad.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

paygo?

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry 50.9, Bush 47.1, Nader 1.3, Badnarik 0.6

or something

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

he was waiting for people to laugh at his 'pay-go' joke...

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

That spittle is really distracting.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

president bush, we at ilx would like some of your ecstasy

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

after 10 years on the wagon! So sad.

hey, it's an election year.

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

wow - Kerry's trying not to laugh at him

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

how did he know the guy that lost that job's name was bob?! he's so smart!

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Ohmigawd this is actually really embarrassing.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

seriously. is he drunk? i actually was just saying that.

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Obviously this puts an end to the "Bush is wired" theories -- they'd have told him to wipe his mouth off-camera five minutes ago.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

oh fuck MOMUS wasn't lying!

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

21st century, 21st century

thanks george, tell us again what century it is-DICWAD

― kephm, Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

who gets a job out of community college?!

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Barry, fiscal responsibility is one of Clinton's strongest legacies.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Hard work at college should be the LAST topic out of the chimp's mouth!

Tony Soprano! Haha!

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"Being lectured by Tony Soprano about Law and Order"

― Remy (x Jeremy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Obviously this puts an end to the "Bush is wired" theories -- they'd have told him to wipe his mouth off-camera five minutes ago.

Or it will reaffirm the rumors were true earlier. Especially if he starts going "line! line! line!"

Though that could be the coke, I guess.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Barry, fiscal responsibility is one of Clinton's strongest legacies.
I know, I just think it's hilarious how the supposed fiscal conservative has spent the USA into a tailspin, and the supposed spendthrift Massachusets Senator is lecturing him about fiscal responsibility.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

why didn't anderson cooper get to mediate one of these? that would have been so much better than this old guy...

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

does bush know what a nanosecond is?

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:20 (twenty-one years ago)

This line is an 8. It would be a 10 without "subsidizing" and "nanosecond," Jesus.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:20 (twenty-one years ago)

"whooo!"

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's destroying him again.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

OH SHIT HE HAS FACTS

― why do old people and old users of ILX such bastardos (deangulberry), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread could use a little bit of Alex in NYC-style hyperbole.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

oh my god. that sigh just made me laugh so hard.

if he isn't on drugs, he really should take some soon.

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Tax code ought to "encourage marriage", except, you know. Except for gay people.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

he said "litney" again

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's destroying him again.

Um... where? It's pretty neck and neck, AFAIC.

But the 'litany' count is 2. Bushie musta just learned the word.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

uh oh, he's starting to wake up. must've fixed that wire.

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

U-nited States

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Ooh, LITNEY. What record she do again?

Far left bank, ha ha!

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

WTF did Bush just do?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

bush laughing by himself there

whoa the homosexual question

― kephm, Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:23 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, Bush looks a bit better on NBC than on MSNBC. But he's still losing big.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

what was that line about massachusetts? my satellite freaked out right when he tried to crack some joke.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.vivamad.de/poster/187usa.jpg

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"the definition of marriage"

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"Sanctity" GODDAMN IT YOU ARE THE PRESIDENT, SEPARATE CHURCH AND STATE ALREADY oh what's the point.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

blaming kerry for voting against DOMA?! he's such an asssssss

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

No, he said 'defining the definition of marriage'...

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

He's concerned that the courts are defining marriage INSTEAD OF HIM GODDAMMIT

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i must of missed the massahusetts joke (turned it on late)

cheney daughter invoked!

― kephm, Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

WTF did Bush just do?

"OUT OF THE MAINSTREAM?"

I'm waiting for the "first and fourth most liberal senators in the United States Senate" line.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

oh right, now it makes sense

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

i like that cnn has each question posted at the bottom of the screen so we can see which issue the speakers are evading at any given time.

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's answer SUCKS on this.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

'unbelievable constitution'?!

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

wow, that was a really dumb way for Kerry to answer

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

fuck catholics

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

fuck you

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

what was that line about massachusetts? my satellite freaked out right when he tried to crack some joke.

the "joke" was along the lines of "senator kerry, your record is so liberal they've taken to calling Kennedy 'the conservative senator from massachusetts'"

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

ewww. he was an altar boy.

xpost-- i'm recovering catholic. i'm allowed to say that.

― colette (a2lette), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

john kennedy invoked!

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah kerry is slipping

― kephm, Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

"culture of life"

― why do old people and old users of ILX such bastardos (deangulberry), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

no, the kennedy quote was good

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

so am i colette, but i don't like the sentiment. anyway, on with the debate

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:29 (twenty-one years ago)

"I believe that we can all come together to impose our will on women everywhere!"

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Maternity group homes - uh-oh handmaid's tale!

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Abstinance just doesn't seem like an alternative to abortion.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Certainly not compared to homosexuality!

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:31 (twenty-one years ago)

The scripture from Kerry was nice. Very apropos. I bet he spent awhile picking that out.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:31 (twenty-one years ago)

wtf was that cackle all about?

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Woah bad joke on Bush's part.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Low premium, high deductible = You will still go deeply into debt if something happens.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

bush's "laugh" was a bit chilling

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

wanda sykes has a thing about bush laughing like a villain. "he laughs like he tied someone to the rail road tracks."

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

GWB is saying that people should be thrown out of group plans and made to sign up with HMO's individually.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

this is making me physically sick

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Who else wants to wipe that smirk off of Bush's face with the back of your hand?

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:32 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost more like someone tying someone else to the railroad tracks.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

"they aren't using the internets!"

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I want everyone who believes he isn't wearing a wire to find a single answer where there isn't a joke or some other form of pause between Schieffer's question and Bush's answer. And what's up with those pauses mid-sentence followed by rapid-fire continuations?

I bet he spent awhile picking that out.

he used it in a speech at least 6 years ago

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Bloody hell it's the $10 billed for a single sanitary towel etc. on most hospital bills that makes healthcare costs go mad, not malpractice lawsuits.

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

― kephm, Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

"horse and buggy days" - Bush loses the Amish vote

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

hahahaha!

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I would like Kerry to talk about Bush's lack of leadership experience.

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you think the Amish are watching?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:35 (twenty-one years ago)

(Admittedly, Suzy, he's been President for a few years...)

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"One called it fiction, the other, untrue" = Some long-lost Darni3ll3 lyric?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

OMFG

― why do old people and old users of ILX such bastardos (deangulberry), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

So far Bush has forgotten Poland.

Another flip-flop.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

ahh we're all so fucked with medicare anyways

― kephm, Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Barring an October Surprise, Kerry's won the election

By Friday we get an orange alert

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

If I get my Congressperson's health care plan, does that mean I have to use their doctors, who have probably been lookin at stinky congress parts all day long?

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

what the HELLLLLLLL?????? "never mind????"

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

once again bush has some nerve talking about an expanding federal budget

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Cool! Canada has poor quality healthcare!

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Since when is the US healthcare system envied by the world?

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you think the Amish are watching?

no, they're TIVOing it

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I know, who knew?

US specialists are perhaps envied by the world, but the system, not so much.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

gabbnebb you KNOW that CW is going to say Bush won this.

I think the care itself is envied by much of the world, suzy, although I agree about the system.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

gabbnebb you KNOW that CW is going to say Bush won this.

if only because the media is too chickenshit to say one candidate got a threepeat.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

(Cool! Canada has poor quality healthcare!)
(I missed this, bush said this? I wasn'T paying attention, I'm listening to a real audio link with door hinges and door clapping sometimes)

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

He said that countries with govt-run healthcare have terrible healthcare systems.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush - I know some big people!

gabbnebb you KNOW that CW is going to say Bush won this.

no, the CW goes waits for the after-debate polls. they're going to say kerry won. maybe MSNBC will call it a tie, but no one watches them.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

He didn't mention Canada by name, but he more or less said that every country that's ever had a government-run health care system has had lousy health care. Either he was saying Canada's health care quality was bad or...HE FORGOT CANADA.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Tracer, I'm rolling a Pepe le Peu Victory Cigarette right about now...

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

trillions are the new billions.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

héhé thanks MindInRewind and Sean Carruthers.

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:45 (twenty-one years ago)

FIRST HE FORGETS OUR VACCINES, THEN HE FORGETS OUR HEALTHCARE, SOON HE WILL FORGET ABOUT US ALTOGETHER

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:46 (twenty-one years ago)

the entire debate has been on Kerry's agenda. Bush is just some guy in the same room as the President.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah but gabbnebb i agree with manthony that it's part of the dramatic arc; the story demands a race, ergo the story demands that Bush wins this one. it demands the "goofball" get one last hail mary. Kerry is not QUITE pulling completely away, therefore --> bush wins the debate.

haha casuistry xpost

I still think Kerry will win, ultimately.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

(my audio link sounds like a xiu xiu track, I never know when I'm gonna get assaulted,I'm a bit scared lol)

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

ouch it did it again :(

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

There he goes with that "6 month stock market decline" lie again.

― Roy Williams Highlight (diamond), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:48 (twenty-one years ago)

when all else fails ... BLAME CLINTON

("the recession started under clinton," in so many words from dumbya).

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh God, immigration...

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Which isn't true -- it started March 2001, per factcheck.com er I mean .org.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:49 (twenty-one years ago)

ve-hick-uls = everyone drink!

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:49 (twenty-one years ago)

unmanned vehicles (again)

― kephm, Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Remote cotrolled cars?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:50 (twenty-one years ago)

don't agree at all

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush is looking kinda crosseyed on TV right now, like Peter Falk.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Sébastien , what is the link?

― kephm, Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry is not QUITE pulling completely away, therefore --> bush wins the debate.

well also aside from dramatic arc the nation is so split that they don't want republicans to stop watching their station. Especially in the Fox News climate they don't want to come off like the "liberal media."

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Something about Kerry reminds me of James Stewart - maybe just the height. Anyway, it makes it easier for me to imagine him being president.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

"It's against the law in the United States to hire people illegally."

Um...isn't it against the law to do -anything- illegally?

― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Can Bush please back up his border improvement comment instead of just whining?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Homestar President

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

The more he whines, the bigger a loser he becomes. Let him whine.

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

$7 an hour. Hmm. It's better than nothing, I guess.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not saying the media's going to declare Kerry the winner, but they're certainly not going to declare Bush the winner. And Kerry will be up in the polls after tonight.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

People "workin' hard, playin' by the rules" -- you can hear Kerry dropping his "g"s.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

$7/hr is still less than Oregon's minimum wage.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

that "family values" comment by kerry was otm

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Homestar President

Yeahhhh....you're pwobably wight.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Oregon has to subsidize the WEEDCONOMY

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

WTF? Jumping from minimum wage to education?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"I"m sick of hearing about family values from politicians who don't value families." Beautiful.

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

kephm i got it from this thread : http://www.shoutcast.com/sbin/shoutcast-playlist.pls?rn=177343&file=filename.pls

― Sébastien Chikara (Sébastien Chikara), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I can't imagine anyone declaring Bush a winner after this.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

npr.org


Bush sounds whiney and angry right now

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd like to take this moment to remind America that Bush once called public school teachers "terrorists".

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway despite the talk of a draw the last 2nd debate poll I saw showed Kerry winning handily.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Way to cut off the question so you don't have to answer the question being asked!

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

ohhhh boy

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

what the hell, he just said, "a lady in texas told me..." - what, no Wanda June Moongrove? it's no good without the folksy name

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

He's not quite as flustered as he has been in the past debates, but that's still a long way from winning, and he is getting his ass kicked.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Yep, Bush started the debate with something approaching clarity, now he's babbling and looks like he's about to put his fist through the podium.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush once called public school teachers "terrorists".
Really? What was that about?

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

jeeez he really hates massachusetts

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

gracias Chikara!

― kephm, Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:00 (twenty-one years ago)

HOW DARE THOSE KIDS SPEAK A LANGUAGE OTHER THAN ENGLISH! WE'VE GOT TO EDGE-CATE THEM!!

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:01 (twenty-one years ago)

george! tell us how you're going to uphold the dred scott decision again or something! it's not to late to pull this out of the hat.

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:01 (twenty-one years ago)

jeeez he really hates massachusetts

is there that much of a rivalry between connecticut and massachusetts? (besides, both candidates are yalies.)

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry is Destroying

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:02 (twenty-one years ago)

The [National Teacher's Union, I can't remember the name off the top of my head] was [er, threatening to strike?] because the rules of NCLB wasn't funded enough and it was basically dragging the entire education system with it. Because of the union's actions, Bush likened them to terrorists.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:02 (twenty-one years ago)

"no child left behind" "is" bush's jobs act?? i wouldn't say that so loud, dude!!!!!

gabbnebb we agree about those things. i'm talking about the head-swivelling Decadent Press Corps, greedily lazing upon their set sofas in bejewelled collars

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

what's the National Garden Reserve?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

If Bush wins this election after the serving he's getting tonite I'll be seriously, seriously depressed. Which is unlike me.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's smartly just defused the $120/200 billion discrepancy thing on the costs of the war.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

bush invokes "global test" AGAIN UGH

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it just me or is Bush cocking his head as though he's listening for something right before he starts?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe he's using those directed ultrasonic carrier based sound...

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost)
Thanks Casuistry! (unbelievable!)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

i think the NEA=terrorist comment was made by Bush's education secretary(or some equivalent)

― tremendoid, Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

How can anyone vote for a man who uses the phrase 'the international world'?

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

watch his eyes - it's so clear he's listening

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

did he say he believes in backgammon and chess?(or "backgammon/chess", even better I had one of those)

― tremendoid, Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

i'd say any and all rivalry between connecticut and massachusetts is 300+ years old

xxxxetcpost

― kephm, Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Hm, my bandmate is a high school math teacher, and we fumed about it when the statement was made -- but it was a while ago and I haven't prepped three days for this debate.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm surprised bush hasn't attacked kerry on his opposition to the gulf war before.

― Symplistic (shmuel), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

bush claims to be unaware that being sent to iraq isn't fun

i think it's water in his ear; just got back from the pool

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

And that's why you'll lose this election, Chris. Shame on you.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

"national country"

― joseph pot (STINKOR™), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I play to lose.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry's clearly been reading all those "Blacks don't connect with Kerry" articles.

― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Is anyone on this thread pro-Bush and, if so, how you feelin' right about now? Just curious, not a taunt.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

WTF? Multiculturalism is also just an easy way to segue to education? Does Bush not know that education is NOT HIS STRONG SUIT?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm actually seriously disturbed by the forced-perspective camerawork that makes wide shots look absolutely seamless in their effort to make both candidates look exactly the same height. It's nearly obscene.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Ooo, will it come up that Bush isn't a church-goer?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

w's jobs plan = "no child left behind"
w's race policy = pell grants

bush really does think we're all children!

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

"i pray for wisdom"

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

"...i pray to get out of this debate alive"

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

"Dear Lord, why are my daughters such drunken sluts?"

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Like, how obsessed are people with the concept of a "level playing field" that they have to create an optical illusion to maintain it?

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:13 (twenty-one years ago)

bush isn't even TRYING for moderate voters ... this is pure appeal-to-the-base.

dubya's gonna lose. i'm sure of it now.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

I JUST FEEL IT

― why do old people and old users of ILX such bastardos (deangulberry), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Tracer: Heh.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Calmness in the Storms of the Presidency: the new album by Yanni! Out November 2.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Jesus Is A Democrat.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"armies of compassion" hahahaha

― why do old people and old users of ILX such bastardos (deangulberry), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG THEY'RE ALLOWING JEWS IN AMERICA NOW! WTF!

― Symplistic (shmuel), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

The armies of compassion?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Amen.

― Jesus (Chris Piuma), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:14 (twenty-one years ago)

ARMIES OF COMPASSION

xxxpost hahahaha

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

ALMIGHTY

― kephm, Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Quit "respecting" these opinions and tear them a new asshole, Kerry!

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I quite like the phrase "The Armies of Compassion".

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

No, now Kerry is trying to appeal to Bush's base, which he might pull off.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

CAN YOU STAND BEFORE THE FURY OF HIS ARMIES

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

(In small doses, I mean.)

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm gonna go love my neighbor a little more right now. See y'all later.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

bush = deer in the headlights

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I quite like the phrase "The Armies of Compassion".

OMGWTF don't give any emo bands ideas!!!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

YOU'VE RELEASED TEH FUCKING FURY of compassion

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Except Bush's Christianity is a masculine Christianity, and not the sort that goes in for this namby-pambly 'Love Thy Neighbour' stuff.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha Ha, X-post to Eisbar

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah but think of the "W stands for women" soccer mom types.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

THE GAY ARMIES OF COMPASSION

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

kerry just said "as president, i am committed to changing that."

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Not that Kerry hasn't taken advantage of assorted campaign finance loopholes.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely they vote for whoever their husband votes for? (x-x-post)

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost...many of whom wait for the plumber/UPS guy for a bit of neighbour-lovin'.

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

kerry is bush's wire!

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm wondering if kerry's dig that dubya has made DC and america more divisive is a little too subtle ...

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Entrenched special interests...like Halliburton and the Carlyle Group?

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

those minority businesses dubya claims that he loves so much will take a backseat to Halliburton, of course ...

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

bush lands a joke.

― army of compassion (deangulberry), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

when it comes to government contracts...

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

"We're all whipped"

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush hasn't learned his lesson well from Laura.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

OUR PRESIDENT IS LAUGHING ABOUT HOW POORLY HE SPEAKS ENGLISH

maybe he should ask himself about jobs?

― dubya's emo army of compassion and guns (deangulberry), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

"strong women" = dubya's still scared shitless of Mummy Babs

(in dubya's defense, i'd be scared too if that nasty hag was my mum)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

"laura speaks english a lot better than i do" (xpost)

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

"And then that night, Laura and I did it under the picnic table."

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

bush answered that question horribly!! how it that even possible?

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

kerry actually made me laugh out loud there

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Debate night turns into open mic night in one easy step.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

(I really think I might suggest Army Of Compassion for my band's name.)

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't know if it's just my tv, because my neighbor says it didn't happen... but just a moment ago a giant talking lobster came and took george bush's place...

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush is fucking CHANNELLING Fred Willard right now.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush's story would have been a lot more interesting if he'd talked about how drunk he was at the time.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

i think kerry has a thing for laura bush

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

i liked kerry's subtle dig at the "elitist" tag being thrown at him with that joke.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

The first Presidential debate to turn into a key party.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

(i am listening to this on the local pacifica station. i can just anticipate the latent naderisms are gonna flow therefrom REAL SOON.)

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm gonna write in a vote for the key party.

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

If Bush misses Texas so much he won't mind when he gets kicked out.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

HOW THE FUCK do we have a PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE about DOMESTIC FUCKING ISSUES without a SINGLE QUESTION about THE ENVIRONMENT or ENERGY POLICY? And the only reason education came up at all is because GEORGE BUSH brought it up. GOD DAMN IT.

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"GOD BLESS AMERICA" a song by George W. Bush, the President of the United States of America

― dubya's emo army of compassion and guns (deangulberry), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Armies of COMPASSION?!?!?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"farm resolve"?

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Armies of Compassion X2

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah... i would have enjoyed that part of history more if it had only been the boston key party instead.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

tripping over his words, trying to affect even, compassionate tone of voice

― tremendoid, Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

i still think kerry won this one ... i'm pretty confident that kerry's gonna pull it out.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"we've been through a lot together"

Yeah buddy.

But I guess this is the big goodbye, huh? (sniff)

Take it easy out there on the trail, big guy. Write if you find work!

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

B-but...if they talked about that energy stuff they wouldn't have had time to say how much they loved their wives.

― Marcel Post (Marcel Post), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

is it just me or has bush really looked as though he expects to levitate after giving his closing statement for all three debates now... he looks as though he's TRYING to float up.

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Bags2differ OTM about lack of evironmental questions.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah... i would have enjoyed that part of history more if it had only been the boston key party instead.

the senator from massachusetts agrees!

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

begs2differ otfm.

this debate was horrid.

― tricky (disco stu), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, totally OTM.

When did Tom Brokaw swallow a live frog?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

well, things evened up a bit in the last half hour - Kerry merely won instead of destroying

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

omg check out little barbara's heels!!

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

NBC just told us who won

Brokaw: three weeks from now, we'll know which one of these men will be the next president of the united states

camera: focused entirely on a smiling, fist-pumping John Kerry

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:31 (twenty-one years ago)

CNN sound like they're calling it a draw.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:31 (twenty-one years ago)

cbs gives it to kerry

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

msnbc poll is up. 85%/15%, advantage kerry by a fucking landslide.

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:32 (twenty-one years ago)

This debate will DEFINATELY be sold as a draw, at least out of the gate. The networks need it to be as down to the wire as humanly possible.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry runs the LiveStrong band

― Jimmy Mod, Los Sexx Yanqui (ModJ), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

'the ideologues of hate'

― Michael Philip Philip Philip Philip Philip Annoyman (Ferg), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/debate_rdp

Kerry up by a big bunch.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

online polls are meaningless

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Maybe it's not bias, it's just that the network analysts are so stupid that they can't tell who won, unless one of them actually dies on stage.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry, i have not read all the latest posts. Kerry just kicked some fucking ass tonight! iwas very unsure of how tonight's debate would go - but Kerry was clear, concise and made the bumbling fool look like a bumbling fool.
I was trying to take notes during the debate, and this one, from Bush, remains: "maternity group homes".

― aimurchie, Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

CNN can't stop talking about Kerry's joke about his wife ... WHO CARES? They called it something to the effect of "his most striking point in the debate".
Why are they focusing on minute, irrelevant details?
(xposts)

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

can anyone tell me what the FUCK "armies of compassion" is supposed to mean!?

― MJS, Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

is it like the salvation army?

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

it's probably code for "kill abortionists," everything else is

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

it's bush for religious wingnuts running social programs

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually felt that a fairly balanced debate. The NCLB issue's always a dangling chad for me; it's an automatic point against Bush but ... otherwise ... it was pretty even.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Dopey Bill Kristol said Bush "slaughtered" Kerry.

― Chris Marx, Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.musicmatic.de/A/ArmyOfL1a.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"I don't like the phrase 'pro-life', can't we call it 'pro-compassion'?"

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

ned wins.

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost: ned reads my mind yet again!

dubya just told all those un(der)employed folks that they're that way b/c they're dumb ... and need re-education. never mind that you WERE an accountant (a PROFESSIONAL job requiring a FOUR-YEAR DEGREE and PROFESSIONAL LICENSURE after taking a standardized test) until that job was sent to india.

dubya just hammered the last nails in his coffin tonight. i feel it in my bones.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

yup

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush has been talking about Armies of Compassion since at least 2002 apparently; he proposed legislation to give government funding to faith-based charities to help people out. Of course, this is the old right nonsense about cutting welfare abd people surviving on charity.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

it's up to drunk santas with buckets to save the economy

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude, I'm in!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:43 (twenty-one years ago)

why the fuck is cbs asking giulliani to describe the differences between each candidates plans for social security (and making it seem authoritative and unbiased?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!)

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Because it's entertaining.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)

If 'Drunken Santas' means like Dan Akroyd in Trading Places, it sounds like a great idea.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't Chevy Chase play a drunk Santa in something?

― Remy (x Jeremy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Are you thinking of Billy Bob Thornton?

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

even Drudge agrees Kerry won - go look at teh picture on his site

I'm very entertained by Bush dragging Giuliani down with him

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Uh, gabbneb, that picture says nothing.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Chevy Chase gets drunk in a Santa outfit in Christmas Vacation...but I might be wrong.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:51 (twenty-one years ago)

That is correct, sir.

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:53 (twenty-one years ago)

39 kerry / 25 bush / 36 draw on cbs instant poll

― firstworldman (firstworldman), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:53 (twenty-one years ago)

bush's next move

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:54 (twenty-one years ago)

this was a much better Bush performance than the other two. But Kerry is still a much better debater, and I think he passed the acceptability threshold.

― Symplistic (shmuel), Thursday, 14 October 2004 01:58 (twenty-one years ago)

The BBC are running away with the Tony Soprano line; the live reporter was chuckling on that one.

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Bush did better last time and Kerry did worse last time. That one was a draw. This one Kerry won.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:03 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post)Yeah, they love it. Why does Bush say "ninet-teen year old girl"? Surely it's much more difficult to talk like that?

I really think Kerry won them all.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush clearly won the debate. Kerry actually made some good points this time (i was forced to admit that because I said some of the same things, verbatim, to Wifey earlier tonight over dinner at Chilis) but totally lost me on that affirmative action shit.

www.badnarik.org

― roger adultery, singer for The Who, Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Roger, do you want to talk about Badnarik?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Gotta ask ya, Roger, do you think Bush will win this election?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't believe me? Look here

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I wish badnarik all the success in the world

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, that ABC poll result is so overwhelming, Gabbneb...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry won! He won the debate! i can't believe anyone could question that! He destroyed Bush on every issue!

― aimurchie, Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

uh, check the party id on the ABC poll - that's a decisive Kerry win

i pray for Badnarik as well

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Why?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:11 (twenty-one years ago)

he ain't taking votes from Kerry

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:13 (twenty-one years ago)

And yes, Sullivan once again has to twist in the wind:

Of all the debates, this seemed to me to be the hardest to call. On substance, I give Kerry a clear advantage. There were some issues in which he simply out-debated the president, answered more questions and had a better case. But on manner and style, Bush came in extremely strongly in the last half-hour, emerging finally as the funny, humane figure that many of us came to admire in the last election cycle. Over all, Kerry cemented his new image as calmer and, oddly enough, more presidential than Bush. But Bush critically regained his likeability, his rapport with people, and his moderate voice. What all this means I'm not sure. Kerry seemed marginally more likable than before, thanks, in part, to the president - but he's still a stiff; and we may be tiring of him a little already. Bush, however, came off as a good guy, but he didn't really advance on his fundamental weak spot: competence and a vision for the next four years. He never gave us a reason to re-elect him, except more of the same. Kerry, while emerging as a less appealing character for the first time, offered plan after plan. The whole debate advanced a narrative: that you don't have to hate Bush to vote for change. Who watched? Not sure. Will it make a big difference? Short term, I think it may arrest the Kerry surge and give Bush a small fillip. Long term, it may help swing undecideds toward the challenger. Stay tuned for a detailed account of the debate and a defense of this instant judgment. Back in a few ...

Boy, he's really tying himself into knots at this point.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

(x-post) Yeah, that's what I figured. I just find him...odd.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

CNN/Gallup Instant Poll - Kerry 52-39

to make clear my point about the ABC poll - if you assume all the Dems went for Kerry and all the Reps went for Bush, Kerry won independents 4 to 1

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:21 (twenty-one years ago)

can we please have a discussion about maternity group homes? Did the president actually suggest that?

― aimurchie, Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

another indicator - Rudy looks really unhappy to be defending Bush now

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Talking Points has some thoughts...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

What is a maternity group home, and what is it's good or bad value?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah the Talking Points thing basically pegs it.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I love it how John Kerry seizes upon the opportunity to say that he did everything! Served in Vietnam! Friends with Christopher Reeve! Fought organized crime! BLESSED BY NATIVE AMERICANS!

I totally expected him to say "Well, I've BEEN a black single mother on welfare!". Maybe we covered this upthread, I haven't been reading!

― adam. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, can we please stop talking about Massachusetts as the avatar of liberal thought? ( Not you guys - but in general) The governor is a Mormon Republican. Nit wit Mitt. Romney. Why is this state used to demonize candidates when, in fact, we have a fucking Republican governor? I really need to go to sleep - grinding my teeth and waiting for the next moment to see polls and opinions. And continuing to say "maternity group homes" in my head, over and over again, like a strange lullaby. Good night. God bless.

― aimurchie, Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Over all, Kerry cemented his new image as calmer and, oddly enough, more presidential than Bush. But Bush critically regained his likeability, his rapport with people, and his moderate voice.

I greatly look forward to Bush's future as a social worker.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:38 (twenty-one years ago)

(multiple xposts)

"i was born a poor black child... "

no wait, bush is the jerk.

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, can we please stop talking about Massachusetts as the avatar of liberal thought?

I was wondering about that myself... I wished Kerry'd brought up Bush's attending Harvard Business School.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:39 (twenty-one years ago)

"I am friends with a working class black woman"

― Jimmy Mod, Los Sexx Yanqui (ModJ), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i wonder aloud -- in what universe is all of tonight's trash-talk about massachusetts, ted kennedy, and 80s-stylee "liberal, liberal, liberal!"-baiting is bush "regain[ing] his ... moderate voice"?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush seems to come out to each debate quite pumped, quite confident - but he gives up fast. A couple of strnog points or rebuttals from Kerry and collapses, like a tired kid might do when her parents are walking to fast, and ignoring her pleas to slow down. He really needs to be able to shake off his mistakes or defeats ad keep going, but he isn't able to do that. And it's not that I don't sympathise - doing those debates must be horrible. But it think that bargaining ability, verbal strength and force of argument are all virtues in a leader, and he doesn't seem to posess them.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush's attending Harvard

that's a SCARY thought.

― Cynthia Nixon Now More Than Ever (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway, Bush did not liken teachers to terrorists. His education secretary, Rod Paige, did compare the National Education Association (NEA) to a "terrorist organization," and later said, "It was an inappropriate choice of words to describe the obstructionist scare tactics the NEA's Washington lobbyists have employed against No Child Left Behind's historic education reforms."

― battlinggreeneyeshades, Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Larry King, Ann Coulter and Jesse Jackson - this will be either the greatest or worst 8 minutes of television in the history of the medium

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Does Ann not know that blacks were a majority in South Africa? Dumb bitch.

― oops (Oops), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:52 (twenty-one years ago)

actually it's just boring

Larry talks about "the problem of being gay" - why is this man still on the air?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush probably left both Massechusetts and Connecticut because he could never remember how to spell either. Texas....now that's easy to remember.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Obviously I don't know how to spell Missachoozits either.

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Thursday, 14 October 2004 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

emm-eye-crooked letter-crooked letter-eye-crooked letter-crooked letter-eye-hunchback-hunchback-eye

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

oops! Foxnews has Kerry ahead now. What's a network got to do to get some decent poll numbers going?
Talking Points blog Very Close to Rectitude

oops!

― tremendoid, Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:02 (twenty-one years ago)

online polls, once again, are meaningless. the ones i cite above are real polls.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:03 (twenty-one years ago)

More Sullivan thoughts. It is interesting how he and Talking Points often converge.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:05 (twenty-one years ago)

The online polls at least show that the Democrats are mobilized to vote in online polls. Perhaps that reflects well on their mobilization in this election in general.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:09 (twenty-one years ago)

CNN's polls match up very closely with how I viewed the three debates
Debate 1 - Kerry 53-37
Debate 2 - Kerry 47-45
Debate 3 - Kerry 52-39

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Nice to see the numbers resemble the numbers in the first debate. Bush floundered in this one to the same extent that he floundered in the first.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:14 (twenty-one years ago)

If Kerry had said something about Texas akin to what Bush said about MA, people would flip!

― sometimes i like to pretend i am very small and warm (ex machina), Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:22 (twenty-one years ago)

how you really know Kerry put it away tonight - Bob Shrum on tv!

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Ah, very well: If I am misremembering, then I am misremembering. Bush just didn't fire the person who called teachers "terrorists".

― Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:27 (twenty-one years ago)

What was the deal with Shrum?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Wonkette nails the results:

"10:31PM: Our call: Bob Schieffer wins. Audience loses. French neutral. America safer now that Saddam is out of power. No, wait. . . Fuck. What did the media tell me again?"

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 14 October 2004 03:30 (twenty-one years ago)

okay, i'm back from watching the debate at the bar & finished reading this thread.

the minimum wage question was a key point where bush just kinda wandered away from the question and, lacking material(his 20 minute load was shot by then) went back to NCLB. same with a later jobs question. Yeah, the lack of energy or environmental policy questions was bullshit. gotta make room for the hard-hitting "talk about your wives" question!

also, watch the debate rerun, and count the number of times per second Bush will blink when listening to Kerry calmly give an answer or rebuttal. I had him about about 2-3 blink/sec then gave up counting.

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:00 (twenty-one years ago)

no civil rights/election fraud question either, which is amazing to me (esp. if Kerry's gonna erroneously mention the Congressional Black Caucaus).

Bush got owned but it wasn't because of that flu shot thingy. He should be saying (with more clarity of language, but that's impossible for him) that able-bodied people shouldn't get flu shots.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:03 (twenty-one years ago)

this was pretty much unwatchable tonight.

i feel like the candidates' ADD was transferred onto me as a viewer.

they barely answered any of the questions.

i really wanted to hear answers for the question on the draft. none were given.

the program was steeped in religion, which i found to be disturbing, to say the least.

confirming once again that i don't care for either of them. i don't like how i have to vote for someone i don't believe in.

a total sham, america, HA

― reo, Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:16 (twenty-one years ago)

in a better (not perfect, better) world, bush's saying that people who lost their jobs under HIS watch should go back to school* (i.e., it's yer fault that yer job went to india, go to community college!) would be enough to get his ass booted out. esp. since the jobs being outsourced to india ARE THE JOBS THAT REQUIRE AN EDUCATION AND THOSE LEFT UNEMPLOYED BY OUTSOURCING TEND TO BE RATHER WELL EDUCATED!!

(* = never mind that No Child Left Behind is for grade school, not college)

sorry to shout, but that line ALONE -- and its underlying "let 'em eat cake" attitude -- got me to screaming IRL. and i know that i'm not alone.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:16 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah I was screaming at the tv "I have a college degree and no job, you asshole!"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:18 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't like how i have to vote for someone i don't believe in.

I'm sympathetic to this, but (for me, anyway) it helps to look at Kerry's whole record, not just his campaign. On the stump, he strikes me as occasionally inspired and mostly irritating. But his record in the Senate is pretty respectable, and I'll always respect his anti-war work. If I'd been old enough to pay attention in 1971 (I was 2), I can imagine I might have watched Kerry's Senate testimony and thought, "I wish I could vote for him for president." Well, now we can. He doesn't excite me, exactly, but if you can assume that his record as president would be as respectable as the rest of his record in public life, he might not be a bad guy to have in the White House.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:28 (twenty-one years ago)

also, you can see footage of John Kerry's Senate testimony in the docu _Going Upriver: The Long War of John Kerry_, which the director has made free for downloading.

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:34 (twenty-one years ago)

dunno about anyone else, and longtime ILXors are gonna groan when i say this (thinking that it's predictable), but after these debates i have gone from "i'm voting for kerry not b/c i like him but b/c i want to get rid of bush" to "i'm voting for kerry b/c i really want to see him as president." i started off as a deaniac who was slightly pissed about how things turned in the primaries but resigned to having kerry as the standard-bearing and ended up at a point where i really think that kerry SHOULD be president. i still dunno if i'm feeling kerry as a PERSON, but that's never been an issue wr2 whether i'd VOTE for someone.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:34 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah the more I see of Kerry the more I like him, the more I'm convinced that he would be a great president. Though I will admit that it's gonna be tough for anyone not just him. It almost makes me wonder why he'd run, knowing that he has to fix Bush's mess. But in a sense that makes me admire him more (quel cojones!).

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:37 (twenty-one years ago)

i really wanted to hear answers for the question on the draft. none were given.

this was covered definitively in the last debate. both said no way.

― g--ff (gcannon), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Man, I'm glad I didn't check this thread till now. You guys really got caught up in your cheerleading. I guess it's just me, but tonight was a solid tie if I ever saw one. Actually, tonight did suck, didn't it? It was like what everyone thought the debates would be like before that great first one convinced us otherwise.
Bush's facts were as shaky as ever, but his presentation was solid, and not just compared to the first debate. Kerry seemed a bit off, maybe just tired. The bags under his eyes were more pronounced than usual.
What really annoyed me, and this happened in the other debate too, is how Kerry would neglect to be aggressive enough to take advantage of that optional 30 seconds (which was tonight as in all the debates really there for the taking rather than at the option of the moderator) and would instead make a final response on the previous question during the next question asked. It was unbecoming for him to veer so sharply off topic (although he has a talent for seamlessly coming back to the one at hand).

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:47 (twenty-one years ago)

debates = presentation + ideas, ie. you can't "win" without handling either. No way this was a draw.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I like Kerry a lot, but it helps that I'm a news junkie and the best stories about him tend to stay under the radar - although this is quite a good one: The Vietnam Vet, Leaving No One Behind.

Also, many xposts:
"i was born a poor black child... "
no wait, bush is the jerk.

Actuallly I was watching The Jerk just about a month ago & spontaneously my friend says.. "It's George W Bush!" And it was.

― daria g (daria g), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Also worrying: Bush looked frighteningly smug when they were talking about Osama.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:52 (twenty-one years ago)

oh cut the crybaby "Oct. Surprise" crap already! Go vote for Bush if you're that convinced by him! Sheesh.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 October 2004 04:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, and this is very x-post, well-bodied people should get flu vaccines. An unprotected adult population increases the risks for the percentage of elderly and young people who are unprotected. Rather annoyingly, I have to have another MMR vaccine this afternoon, as apparently there is a rash (heh) of mumps cases among young men. I've had mumps! Leave me alone! But they're worried we will carry the illness and infect other adults, and more vulnerable people, so.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 05:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Way to be puerile stence. You know, you're right, there's nothing to worry about! This election's in the bag! Boy Bush sure did look stupid, didn't he? Ha Ha! Stupid! He's got big ears! He's just a funny stupid clown! His party is too dumb to pull anything, it's inconceivable that anyone could think otherwise! Yay! YAAAAAAY!

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 14 October 2004 06:20 (twenty-one years ago)

"yeah I was screaming at the tv "I have a college degree and no job, you asshole!" "

That was my exact reaction

― Cacaman Flores, Thursday, 14 October 2004 06:24 (twenty-one years ago)

i hadn't thought of that reaction, tho i should have, as i have two degrees, and no job.

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Thursday, 14 October 2004 06:32 (twenty-one years ago)

am i the only one who finds the both of them to be almost disordered-sounding/seeming in their speech patterns and so on?

what a strange predicament this country's in

― duke speech, Thursday, 14 October 2004 06:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Bob Schieffer's avuncular grin was so big I thought it was going to eat his face! Was he getting a handjob or something under that moderator's table? Was he thinking about Christmas?

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 08:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Aparently Schieffer's brother is Bush's ambassador to Australia.

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 08:54 (twenty-one years ago)

November is the perfect time of year for Scheiffer to take a nice long Australian golf vacation with a certain family friend who suddenly has lots of time on his hands. Maybe that's why he's smiling?

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 09:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, here's a statistic about the third debate. The candidates had equal time, but Bush managed to get in only 6138 words whereas Kerry spoke 7437. That's the word count, I'm now running the grammar check on the transcript. Oops, crashed!

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 14 October 2004 10:40 (twenty-one years ago)

And how many of Bush's words were of the errm...umm...eh? variety?

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 14 October 2004 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

So - is there a consensus (in media / US, not ilx) that 'Kerry won the third debate', and that this helps Kerry?

― the bellefox, Thursday, 14 October 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I think there is, pf, and how could it not? I think I was wrong up there about the narrative demanding a comeback from Bush. Amazingly, the story is the same as it was just after the first debate: Kerry's coming back. I don't know how he's managed to hold onto that story line, to keep it where it is, but he has. My fear is that too much success breeds a natural "balancing" reaction from our press corps, who feel like they have to root for the underdog. But Kerry's managed to retain his underdog, insurgent status, despite his thoroughgoing public dismantling of Bush over the last three weeks.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Thank you for that, Hand.

― the bellefox, Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it's a matter of different victory criteria for each candidate. If Kerry fails to make Bush look like more of a chump than he did in the last debate it's a draw. It's kind of natural for people to see improvement as victory. Like when my friends (rarely) persuade me to play football - they don't say 'ha ha you're rubbush' they say 'you did pretty well, that was a good pass' etc. Note: I'm am more rubbish at football than you could possibly imagine. Anyway, I think it's the B-student, D-student difference; 'We're pleased with his D because he tried his best, we know you could do better'. Which is an understandable way of grading people's performance, but not when one of the people gets or retains control of nuclear weapons.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Ugh, there are some ugly mistakes in there; you know what they are, correct them in your head.

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

The illustrative chunk they played on the radio this morning was Bush ragging Kerry for voting repeatedly to raise taxes and against motions to lower them; he ended with a forced chuckle about Ted Kennedy being conservative by comparison. It was awful - he sounded choked and desperate and wired only in the Bob Woodward sense.

The media can spin it however they like (and Reps will eke out whatever morsels of comfort they can from Dubya shouting, or Dubya cracking a funny, or Dubya getting Godly) but I cannot believe from all I've seen, read and heard of these debates (no, I haven't seen any of them in their entirety) that the Undecideds won't flock to Kerry. Or at the very least, stay where they are, sitting on their hands.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

The BBC is showing polling results that around 39% thought Bush won, 52% thought Kerry and 9% a tie.

― frankiemachine, Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:37 (twenty-one years ago)

If enough Democrats do that too, it would be enough for Bush to win. Part of what Rove's going for with all the dirty politics is to get people so disgusted with the whole exercise that they just stay home (which traditionally benefits Republicans).

My dad was grumbling in our weekly phone call yesterday about the Republican voter drives going on in all the Baptist churches down South. And the fake voter registration group in Nevada who "registered" people to vote, but destroyed all the applications that weren't for the Republican Party. Starting today, all the rules are out the window. "Teeth on the sidewalk" time.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:41 (twenty-one years ago)

a Democracy Corps (Democratic) poll (summary and link to PDF here) finds Kerry won the debate and moved the needle onto exactly my Election Day prediction

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Over on the National Review blog, Rich Lowry said: "I watched the re-run of the debate last night out of sheer enjoyment." So it was porn, then.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Weekly Standard crew, meanwhile, are really urging themselves on...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaha dream on.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

From Fred Barnes' essay:

"WHAT DO YOU want to achieve in a presidential debate? You want to hammer home your campaign themes. You want to put your opponent on the defensive. You want to sell yourself personally. And you want to avoid a gaffe or a damaging sound bite. Bush did all four in Wednesday night's third and final nationally televised debate with John Kerry."

Oh, you mean like the "Osama's not a priority" gaffe?

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll say it again -- should Kerry win in a decisive no-point-in-complaining fashion, my November 3 will be spent reading up on all the right wing blogs and sites and just...amusing myself.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

ew Ned!

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

we've all done it

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Amusing myself in your company even.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:07 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't get to watch it live, and the only recap I found that showed any clips of the debate is on Fox News. Slanted, I know, but they are all over the comment Kerry made about Cheney's daughter. I think I've read this whole thread and haven't seen people talk about that--can someone who saw this in context maybe say more? I only got the soundbite followed by talking heads quoting Cheney's wife's response.

― sgs (sgs), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry has been described for the past year as a candidate who runs hard at the end. His campaigns are notorious for seeming weak at first - but then he comes out from behind and becomes the victor. He's Seabiscuit, goddamnit! (Plus he is kinda horsey looking) i am still queasy about the election - but, Kerry has proven that he can mop up the floor using the president as his floor cleaning tool.Kerry rarely faltered or stumbled last night - as opposed to Bush, who seemed confused by his very prescence there. Bush stumbled and faltered every time he had the microphone. he was only clear when he was repeating the same rhetoric that he spends three days being coached on.
As i said to my very wonderful kitty cat, who did not seem to be watching the debate at all, much to my chagrin "Look, there's your new president." I really felt it in my heart, for the first time, that Kerry could - and should- be the president.
If Bush wins i am going to leave the country and start a 24 hour FAP in some other country. You are all welcome to join me. I'll be the one crying into my pint.

― aimurchie, Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

daria, Kerry knew it was a risk to bring her up so he handled it like a plutonium grenade, calm, deliberate, quiet. i thought that was fine. the real outrage i felt (above, when i wrote "his answer here SUCKS") was how he basically said "they're born that way" i.e. the poor saps can't control how they are, so we must open our hearts to them yadda yadda. i'm sure it was the right thing to do on a macro political level but it's a TOTAL punt that trades respect and dignity for pity and condescension.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

This is the Mary Cheney quote:

"We're all God's children, Bob, and I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice."

I have no problem with Democrats bringing Republican hypocrisy on this matter up as often as they like.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Neither does (yes you guessed it) Sullivan:

I keep getting emails asserting that Kerry's mentioning of Mary Cheney is somehow offensive or gratuitous or a "low blow". Huh? Mary Cheney is out of the closet and a member, with her partner, of the vice-president's family. That's a public fact. No one's privacy is being invaded by mentioning this. When Kerry cites Bush's wife or daughters, no one says it's a "low blow." The double standards are entirely a function of people's lingering prejudice against gay people. And by mentioning it, Kerry showed something important. This issue is not an abstract one. It's a concrete, human and real one. It affects many families, and Bush has decided to use this cynically as a divisive weapon in an election campaign. He deserves to be held to account for this - and how much more effective than showing a real person whose relationship and dignity he has attacked and minimized? Does this makes Bush's base uncomfortable? Well, good. It's about time they were made uncomfortable in their acquiescence to discrimination. Does it make Bush uncomfortable? Even better. His decision to bar gay couples from having any protections for their relationships in the constitution is not just a direct attack on the family member of the vice-president. It's an attack on all families with gay members - and on the family as an institution. That's a central issue in this campaign, a key indictment of Bush's record and more than relevant to any debate. For four years, this president has tried to make gay people invisible, to avoid any mention of us, to pretend we don't exist. Well, we do. Right in front of him.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Probably the best thing Sullivan has ever written.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

cheers tracer. (Are you calling me daria? I don't necessarily mind.)
I agree with you about the implicit condescension though I hadn't thought about the deeper meaning of it that much after the little bit I did hear, like many other people I suspect. And then they were all HOW DARE HE MENTION HER and that ended up being the story of it.
(xposts thanks y'all for elaborating.)
I'm getting increasingly annoyed with news stories about undecided voters--I can't figure out if it's the somewhat flawed reasoning they display, or their occasional apathy, or how the stories present them...falling asleep on the couch in front of the debate, eating a lot at a fair and quoting Lincoln, or what. It's probably me, resenting the focus of what I see on swing voters rather than policy, or the groups of people who have pledged to support each candidate and what that might mean.

― sgs (sgs), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh my. Do I now have to love Andrew Sullivan? And to think of the years I have spent arguing with him in my brain. There should be a soap opera called "When Pundits Turn Around And Say Exactly The Opposite Of What They Used To Say".

― aimurchie, Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I tried to watch this last night, I really did, but I just couldn't take it.

― n/a (Nick A.), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

so anyway, what happened in the ball games last night, i got to the bottom of the first in the bos/nyy match and had to go to bed before i fell asleep on the couch...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

oops sorry sgs! that's the 2nd name i've mis-read here in same number of days :(

xpost please don't bring that up Steve. (i mean, er, Tony)

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

these debates just make me feel bad for al gore. I didnt watch the debates because I was busy binge drinking in college, but its just amazing that he managed to 'lose' to bush last time around. I also take comfort in how locked down the democrats are and have found their voice in order to challenge the republican spin machine.

the debate quote they played on power 106 this morning was the sopranos quote, but the hosts of the show all thought the debate was a draw for some reason. they also said something about BET banning the new eminem video when MTV wouldnt, and then went on to say 'hey arent they both owned by viacom anyway? - yeah yeah they are..' pfft.

― still bevens (bscrubbins), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

"When Pundits Turn Around And Say Exactly The Opposite Of What They Used To Say".


???? Sullivan may be to the right of me on many issues but he's always been pretty consistent, unsurprisingly, on gay rights.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 14 October 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I may be wrong - i am probably wrong - but i thought Sullivan ranted away AGAINST the gay marriage amendment that was passed in Massachusetts. I tried to look up his opinions before posting this. And didn't find what i was looking for. Oh well. Please inform.

― aimurchie, Thursday, 14 October 2004 15:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry 3, Bush 0. I love how biased online polling is now influencing media spin (not that I disagree, but they are referencing their own website's unscientific polling). It's just great to have that headline on the front page of cnn, however small.

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 October 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

whoops, never mind, that was a snap phone poll and not the online poll. and it was on the front page of the political section, not the homepage. but STILL.

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 14 October 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

taped it this morning, watched it this afternoon. thought it was kerry's, and more decisively than debate 2. i did think kerry could've come back harder on bush's "all you unemployed people need is community college!" 'solution'. and i wanted some fresh attacks. but i laughed out loud at a number of bush responses.

― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 14 October 2004 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the only reason the punidts don't spin the Bush comback narrative is because of the insta-polls. God bless the insta-polls.

― Symplistic (shmuel), Thursday, 14 October 2004 17:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Sullivan is going to town over the Mary Cheney thing and its aftermath:

The Mary Cheney thing really is a fascinating Rorschach test. Many conservatives are appalled and cast their anti-Kerry opinion as a defense of Mary. Here's one:

Last night he allowed his obsession with his own selfish desire to win a point overshadow the appropriate boundaries of taste, compassion, and kindess. Lynne Cheney has the right to call him a bad man. And woman across the nation have the right to see for themselves that he is willing to victimize THEM if it comes to padding his advantage, reputation, position, or standing.

Victimize? All Kerry did was invoke the veep's daughter to point out that obviously homosexuality isn't a choice, in any meaningful sense. The only way you can believe that citing Mary Cheney amounts to "victimization" is if you believe someone's sexual orientation is something shameful. Well, it isn't. What's revealing is that this truly does expose the homophobia of so many - even in the mildest "we'll-tolerate-you-but-shut-up-and-don't-complain" form. Mickey Kaus, for his part, cannot see any reason for Kerry to mention Mary except as some Machiavellian scheme to pander to bigots. Again: huh? Couldn't it just be that Kerry thinks of gay people as human beings like straight people - and mentioning their lives is not something we should shrink from? Isn't that the simplest interpretation? In many speeches on marriage rights, I cite Mary Cheney. Why? Because it exposes the rank hypocrisy of people like president Bush and Dick and Lynne Cheney who don't believe gays are anti-family demons but want to win the votes of people who do. I'm not outing any gay person. I'm outing the double standards of straight ones. They've had it every which way for decades, when gay people were invisible. Now they have to choose.

Let me give you an example of the double standards here. I remember once being driven around by a charming woman on a stop on a book tour. We talked about my book, and she averred, after chatting all day, that she had nothing against gay people, she just wished they wouldn't "bring it up" all the time. I responded: "But you've been talking about your heterosexuality ever since I got in the car." She said: "I haven't. I've never once discussed sex." My response: "Within two minutes, you mentioned your children and your husband. You talked about your son's work at high school. You mentioned your husband's line of work. And on and on. You wear your heterosexuality on your sleeve all the time. And that's fine. But if I so much as mention the fact that I'm gay, I'm told it's all I care about, and that I should pipe down. Don't you see the double standard?" Candidates mention their families all the time. An entire question last night was devoted to the relationship between men and their wives and daughters. Mentioning Mary Cheney is no more and no less offensive than that. What is offensive is denying gay couples equal rights in the constitution itself. Why don't conservatives get exercized about that?

Mickey posits a perilous race analogy:

What if Kerry were debating a conservative on affirmative action, and that conservative had a black wife, and Kerry gratuitously brought that up in an attempt to cost his opponent the racist vote? Would Andrew Sullivan approve? I don't think so. ...

First off, I don't buy the cynical explanation of Kerry's reference. But secondly, affirmative action isn't a strong enough analogy. Let's say the president was proposing the real analogy: a constitutional amendment to ban inter-racial marriage. Now let's say the veep's daughter was married to a black man. Would it be relevant then? Of course it would. But there is an obvious solution to this debate: let Mary speak. She's running the veep's campaign. She's an adult. Why can't she tell us if she's upset by Kerry's and Edwards' remarks? Give her a microphone, guys. What are you afraid of?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 17:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I can only suggest that the twists going on here from those Sullivan are talking about are rendolent of a 'when drowning, grasp any straw' approach. Not that Sullivan doesn't do that himself on other fronts, obv.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 17:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Delightful. He's on fire and he's very OTM on this subject.

― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 14 October 2004 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

The book tour story is a grand anecdote in and of itself. (I actually wish he had posted her reaction to his observation, maybe he yet will. Did she stop short and realize what was up or not?)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

If Bob Novak didn't like the debate and is saying it was a tie, then I guess I'm convinced that Kerry well and truly won the thing.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Thursday, 14 October 2004 18:50 (twenty-one years ago)

bringing up Mary Cheney was the minor error in Kerry's homosexuality answer. there was a major one, and it has to do with female swing voters.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 18:58 (twenty-one years ago)

AAAAAAnnnnd here come the photos!

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041014/capt.azsa10610140137.debate_azsa106.jpg

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Thursday, 14 October 2004 18:59 (twenty-one years ago)

(some of them, at least; for others, it might have been a good answer)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah, and dig this AP story: Bush Says Debates Highlight His Record

LAS VEGAS - President Bush said Thursday the trio of prime-time debates with Sen. John Kerry demonstrated he is running on his record — and his opponent away from his own — even as the Republican campaign acknowledged that Kerry had gained from the confrontations viewed by tens of millions of Americans...

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:00 (twenty-one years ago)

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20041014/i/r1863069267.jpg

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20041014/capt.nvsa10110141640.bush_nvsa101.jpg

(not really a debate photo, but i like McCain's look of "Fuck, WHY am i doing this again?")

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

what gabbnebb, where he said abortion was a private decision btwn a woman, god, and her doctor? (not god's doctor, in case that's not clear) i can't fathom what you mean.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:04 (twenty-one years ago)

also one last NB from me, i thought kerry's line about growing up catholic was HILARIOUS. his expression said it all. now we know where he got the wisdom to let his daughters off the leash!

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20041014/i/r3907662659.jpg

― Sir Kingfish Beavis D'Azzmonch (Kingfish), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20041012/capt.sge.rlg51.121004220833.photo02.default-373x273.jpg

Think that it couldn't happen? Who woulda thunk thirty years that her old man would've made it?

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:08 (twenty-one years ago)

But will she still look like that?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

(from that CNN page)

Meanwhile, a Pennsylvania judge yesterday barred Ralph Nader from the state's November 2 ballot, saying his nominating petitions were "rife with forgeries." Citing signatures for Mickey Mouse, Fred Flintstone, John Kerry and even Ralph Nader, the judge said that fewer than 19,000 of the more than 51,000 signatures that Nader's supporters submitted were valid. Nader needed at least 25,697 to be listed on the ballot as an independent candidate.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:17 (twenty-one years ago)

What did Kerry say about growing up Catholic?

― the bluefox, Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:25 (twenty-one years ago)

ihttp://img91.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img91&image=jennabph.jpg

You left me with no other choice, Raggett.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:27 (twenty-one years ago)

wow. for weeks i've been shuddering at that girl imagining her father's face superimposed on her body every time i look at her. now photoshop has done the trick for me.

― lemin (lemin), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)

That kind of looks like Martha Stewart.

x-post

― Leon Czolgosz (Nicole), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

After the prison matrons have had some fun.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.imomus.com/fivewords.jpeg

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

whuell HECK

― battlin' green eyeshades (Homosexual II), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

if bush wins i'm going to burn down some shit.

― battlin' green eyeshades (Homosexual II), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

or even if kerry wins! i mean people get all crazy when their sports team wins, right? there will be 1,000 couches aflame on november 2nd!

― battlin' green eyeshades (Homosexual II), Thursday, 14 October 2004 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

So that's what Bush Sr. meant about a thousand points of light...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 14 October 2004 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

1000 points of light = bulletholes in a wall.

Pinefox, it was really the way he said it, more than the transcript. The moderator, a sometime golfing buddy of Bush, whose brother Bush appointed as an Ambassador, voiced the criticism of some extreme Catholic bishops who have urged their congregations (I know that's probably not the right word) to vote for Bush, not Kerry, because of Kerry's support for abortion rights. "I respect their views. I completely respect their views. I am a Catholic. And I grew up learning how to respect those views, but I disagree with them, as do many." He came close to letting the first clause of the last sentence be a comedy bit. But he toughened up on it just enough.

― You've Got to Pick Up Every Stitch (tracerhand), Thursday, 14 October 2004 21:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks.. I wondered what Kerry said as well. I actually turned off the sound on the religion questions because I feel pretty uncomfortable about it being dragged into politics. I'll have to listen to that answer again. Every now and then Kerry says or does something that cracks me up even though it's not exactly funny, just because it strikes me as really Catholic. Like in debate 2 where he's answering a question about abortion rights or something & says in a really vague way, well, I'm not pro-abortion and you know, and people have to be careful, and there has to be education and uh, yeah.

― daria g (daria g), Thursday, 14 October 2004 23:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Hah, I'd like to know who's "pro-abortion." Like, "Mothers-to-be, kill yr dirty infants NOW"

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 14 October 2004 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah i loved how in the second debate bush made it seem like if there is funding for abortion clinics more people would get abortions. i kept picturing a happy expecting mum.. "geez, its so easy to get an abortion, MAY AS WELL, YANNO!?"

― battlin' green eyeshades (Homosexual II), Thursday, 14 October 2004 23:58 (twenty-one years ago)

remember when the bush girls were dumpy little things? They're pulling of a pretty major sex-bomb, olivia-newton-john-in-grease thing...

― Jimmy Mod, Los Sexx Yanqui (ModJ), Friday, 15 October 2004 09:54 (twenty-one years ago)

But they're a cruel trick of nature, hotties with Daddy's face!

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 15 October 2004 09:57 (twenty-one years ago)

not if you're fucking them from behind.

― Jimmy Mod, Los Sexx Yanqui (ModJ), Friday, 15 October 2004 09:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Then they still look like they've got Daddy's face.

― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Friday, 15 October 2004 13:56 (twenty-one years ago)

And they're always together, fighting over custody of a solitary brain cell.

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 15 October 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I applaud you, Ace. That was brilliant.

― Jimmy Mod, Los Sexx Yanqui (ModJ), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.lofficieux.com/playlist/images/Aphex%20twin.jpg

― Smokin' funk by the boxes (kenan), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah i loved how in the second debate bush made it seem like if there is funding for abortion clinics more people would get abortions. i kept picturing a happy expecting mum.. "geez, its so easy to get an abortion, MAY AS WELL, YANNO!?"

This is entirely OTM. There's a great book called The Abortion Myth -- the myth, which is perpetrated by both sides, is that getting an abortion is an easy decision.

― Smokin' funk by the boxes (kenan), Friday, 15 October 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

OMFG! The following link sums up all the debates. It's friggin' hysterical.
http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=243

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 16 October 2004 01:48 (twenty-one years ago)


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