When friends reveal their racism

WTF?!?

Side note: His favorite band at the time was Limp Bizkit (!): "At least it's half-way rock!"

It was the loveliest party that I've ever attended
If anything was broken I'm sure it could be mended
My head can't tolerate this bobbing and pretending
Listen to some bullet-head and the madness that he's saying

This is where the party ends
I'll just sit here wondering how you
Can stand by your racist friend
I know politics bore you
But I feel like a hypocrite talking to you
You and your racist friend

This is where the party ends
I can't stand here listening to you
And your racist friend
I know politics bore you
But I feel like a hypocrite talking to you
And your racist friend

Out from the kitchen to the bedroom to the hallway
Your friend apologizes, he could see it my way
He let the contents of the bottle do the thinking
Can't shake the devil's hand and say you're only kidding

This is where the party ends
I can't stand here listening to you
And your racist friend
I know politics bore you
But I feel like a hypocrite talking to you
And your racist friend

I'm not entirely sure that I see your example as straightforwardly racist, either. There are plenty of black people who argue against intermarriage too, because it helps to wipe out what is already a minority culture. I don't agree with them, but I don't think I'd call them racist. It depends on what basis your friend said it, I guess. That you have well-adjusted mixed race friends doesn't mean that it's not 'wrong' in some wider sense (not that I personally believe it is).

I mean is anyone pure whatever anymore? The "not of any race" kind of concept makes no sense nowdays, to my mind.

These people are also racist. Racism isn't confined to whites.

Yes, it is.

would your "conservatives" say all of this, proudly?

OMG I DON'T HAVE NO RACE!

none of my good mates are racist but sometimes they make heavily disparaging remarks about drug and alcohol users, which is a field i've counselled in quite a bit. i always say "that's a bit judgmental' and maybe tell them a story about one of my former clients, i reckon it's a good way to diffuse the situation and let them know my feelings without it becoming an argument.

yep i think a lot of them would, at least my mum and dad and all of their mates would. i probably used that word in a really misleading way, i'm sorry.

-- Alba (albab...)

Yeah, people who say that kind of thing are cocks, but to assert that racism doesn't exist outside of the minds of white people is naive beyond belief.

oh yeah i hate that stuff too. in australia there are quite a lot of health, education and welfare initiatives directed specifically at the indigenous population, largely because there are some problems unique to that population. i can't STAND it when people say "oh they say they want equality but look at all these 'extra' benefits they get"

ugh - this is one of the most insufferable things I've EVER read on ILM. Briania, get over yourself. Truth is, your bowling buddy is an asshole - not for his beliefs, skewed and unreasonable as they may seem, but for his method of communicating them, thus tossing himself straight into the "racist neanderthal' pile. Had he been ARMED in this pathetic battle of wits, you may have been forced to defend your opinions - something you might have not been able to do in the face of facts and statistics.

But the fact is that many black I know (and I know plenty, but I'd never dare to say I have any 'ties' to the 'black community,' whatever the fuck that is) are against interracial marriage. More so, on the whole, than the white people I know.

But maybe it's only ok for african americans to want to preserve their precious heritage /culture, right? MY culture is McDonalds, farm foreclosures and football injuries, right?

My point is that it is useful to consider a wider context when talking about racism. Power structures. Given that, either one restricts the word 'racism' to situations where the perpetrator is in a position to oppress with their prejudice, or else one has to treat 'racism' as a fairly neutral term and talk about 'harmful racism' and 'harmless racism' all the time. Perhaps this approach is better, yes, but it's not straightforward.

By the way: WHERE MY CHEROKEES AT? Think about that one for a minute.

On the flipside: I'm not changing any minds by coming out guns blazing over this. Even if everybody I knew minded their P's & Q's about speech they knew I would object to, some of them would undoubtedly still harbor the attitude.

Can't really apologize for that one, 'cause I don't think it's so insufferable to stake out where my politics are.

xxxxxxpost - this post took me a stupidly long time to write cos I'm drunk.

-- Riot Gear! (drink_to_remembe...), October 26th, 2004 2:34 AM.

So OTM

Some people here have far too narrow a definition methinks.

Yes they will. They'll be black. Or hasn't this guy been paying attention?

These people are also racist. Racism isn't confined to whites.

Yes, it is.

-- Alba (albab...), October 26th, 2004 12:11 PM. (Alba)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1870000/images/_1874787_nol.jpg

this is the bit that baffles ME on this thread!

Maybe I'm spoilt by my current group of friends, but if someone I know said that, I'd just walk away and avoid seeing them again.

And ff course in 'my paradigm' the Japanese can oppress ethnically Korean people in Japan, because they are the ones in a position of power.

My guess is we'll be waiting a LONG time for Roger's facts & statistics in support of racial purity.

http://www.nandoinorlandophotos.blogger.com.br/shocked.gif

The horror!

I kind of figured that your argument was somehow Public Enemy-related. Bad role models, I think.

It's just where I first heard this kind of thing being talked about.

When Griff said that thing, I remember there being a banal 'hear-say' response of "That's ridiculous - of course black people can be racist too!" without bothering to listening to the point he was actually making. They didn't have to agree with it, just accord him the respect of not assuming he's so dumb as to be arguing that black people never discriminate on the basis of skin colour. That his position must be a little more sophisticated than that.

All I was saying is that I do regard anyone against interacial relationships as a 'harmful' racist.

And, indeed, bed.

oh wait. nobody here said that it was ok for black people to be against race mixing but not white people. roger is being a reactionary defensive strawman-bashing pud. shockah.

When I do hear my friends say racist things I'm in a tough position because 1) They're usually smart enough to know better but seem to think they're being half-ironic, and 2) It's never as obvious and dumb as 'the kids won't have no race'

Tell that to anyone who overhears you though, dad! Grr. I tell him off and he is really baffled as to why.

Using taboo words isn't what I think of when I think "casual" racism. I think more of people who make assumptions about their surroundings based on racial stereotypes that they honestly don't even realize are stereotypes. "OMG I'm in South Central! All the black people are out to shoot me!" That sort of thing. Fact is, some of the black people *would* shoot you, past a certain time of night and in the exact wrong place. But the racism comes in with, "I'm in South Central... time to be afraid of black people." Or closer to my part of the world, "I've never been to the south side of Chicago. It's a bad place." No, idiot, it's a BLACK place! Do you even hear yourself talking?

Then again that was probably what I got for staying in a shithole 1 horse town in Staffordshire.

I knew the word 'shockah' would come up in this thread. I practically saw the words on the screen as I was driving to the bar after my post.

What I want to know is:

Who is this 'black community' you speak of? Do they hold meetings? Are you a member, Briania?

Why did you post this? I mean, what was the motivation? So you could prove how pious and 'lefty' you are? So all your ILM pals would come with all their predictable meek, white liberal guilt and pat you on the back and say "way to go, sistaaaaah. You go girl?"

The 'facts and statistics' I refer to are the same ones that everyone from Louis Farrakkhan to David Duke spout off to people who aren't as smart as they are - they may be skewed, wrong, poorly researched, etc etc. None of us are stupid, here, we all know how things get lost in translation and 'news' and 'facts' are often dominated by special interests (see media bias, etc). My point was that this particular racist you refer to above probably couldn't tell you who the vice president was, but there ARE racists, believe it or not, who can talk as good a game as your buddies Susan Sarandon and Michael Moore to those stupid and impressionable enough to listen and not do their own research. Try defending your 'lefty'-ness and 'ties to the black community' on an intellectual level, rather than "poor me! My virgin ears have been accosted!" I think you'd find yourself without much to actually say.

Why is it always self-described liberals who are always wanting to shut people up? Aren't you all supposed to be against that? Whatever happened to "Censorship is UnAmerican?"

In-bred works just as well in this context. Also, miscegenation is definitely an issue (if not an explicit and outright Issue) in the US.

I don't think you've read the thread (correctly). Also, I think you are an asshole.

Are you QUITE all right?

I believe he posted it for the same reason many of us post many different things, namely something crosses our path, gets our goat, and causes us to vent via a thread. I've done it, you've done it, most of us have. The specific politicization that you seem to want to bring to this or many other threads or posts, regardless of whether it was intended or hinted at at any point in the original post, is your own cross to bear, and while you are not alone on this -- on either end of the political spectrum -- that doesn't make it any less potentially reductive or tiresome.

If all you want to offer are caricatures, then choke down the ones you'll get in return.

fuck thats a tired cliched bunch of names to pull out of a hat, dude. Give yourself more credit, come on!

That's pretty arrogant, I think -- galling, actually. Do you not understand the abstract concept of having a "sense of community?" Would you be so bold as to disparage others for saying they have one?

Further, this isn't saying much.

Surprised he can stomach a proud democrat musician like Patterson Hood, as usually that gets you marked for death.

Hi, Roger!

My two cents:

Black people = racist
White people = racist
Indigenous people = racist
Asian People = racist
Inuits = cold

remy, funny, but not a good point. Still... funny. That goes a long way.

Guys, guys! Look at usssss! Squabbling! Bickering! Like childwen!

We never used to be like this!

'lefty'
white liberal guilt
special interests
media bias
your buddies Susan Sarandon and Michael Moore
'lefty'-ness
self-described liberals

all the red-alert words!

Otherwise, OTM.

When I got round to meeting my dad two years ago, it was a major culture shock. He has lived in Glasgow most of his life but has a strong black identity which he immediatly tried to drum into me. I'm not feeling it, my roots are Scottish. He tries to encourage me to talk about my experiences as 'a mixed race woman'. I'm sorry, but I couldn't really tell you.

A few years ago I was part of a union in my workplace. I was approached by a colleague and asked to attend a seminar as a 'black speaker'. I turned it down. Acquaintances regularly ask me if I'm into hip-hop, or reggae. Nope and nope, certainly not any more than my friends are anyway.

I went out with someone (white) who loved 'Gangsta Rap' and would play it all the time, gradually I noticed his friends were becoming increasingly uncomfortable listening to it in my presence, eventually one of them plucked up the courage to ask me if hearing the N word so often was offensive. No, just cringeworthy, and no, I don't refer to myself as that.

My friends feel it's up to them to protect me, we were at a football match some time ago and somebody shouted a racist remark. My friends got all gung-ho on my behalf, and to my embarrassment started a huge scene with me at the centre.

Race should be ignored. It's not difficult. We don't notice the race of someone in the street unless their skin colour is different.

I saw a Denzel Washington movie last night, he's brilliant isn't he? Do you know who my favourite actor of all time is? Mr. Sidney Poitier.

I can relate to that. I'm a south sider, and I can't tell you how many times my north side (or non-Chicago) 'friends' would turn the car around if they realized they were south of Jackson. That was in college, though - I don't hang around with those people anymore, sorry, but that is a deal-breaker for me. Also, people refer to my hometown as a 'ghetto' (it's not) in my presence.

I once overheard a conversation between two musicians - "it's like if you keep mixing dog breeds - eventually all you end up with is a plain brown dog". Said as if this were some grand liberal and pluralistic notion.

I'm gonna get a slap for that, right?

what flavour!

Who is this 'black community' you speak of? Do they hold meetings? Are you a member, Briania?
I use "community" in the conventional sense -- a body of people sharing social and familial relationships (I live in a small, isolated town where people, and groups of people, are close-knit). My "ties to" this community include some close friends, my boss, my uncle & cousins, neighbors, the great majority of children I work with. I expressed it that way in order to get around having to describe all these relationships separately. As I thought I made clear, people who know me know these things, and can reasonably expect me to rise to race-baiting.

Why did you post this? I mean, what was the motivation? So you could prove how pious and 'lefty' you are? So all your ILM pals would come with all their predictable meek, white liberal guilt and pat you on the back and say "way to go, sistaaaaah. You go girl?"
Those aren't the reasons I posted this. Believe me, I'm far from pious, and I used the term "lefty" with what I hoped would be a BROAD wink of self-satire. I'll use an emoticon, if it helps. It's rare for me to dump personal items on ILX, but I wondered if others here experienced similar problems & how they dealt with it. And because incidents like this make me feel lonely and out-on-a-limb. Also, I'm a guy, so next time you want to insult me you can call me a queer or whatever (gotta make sure to change that s/n to "Brian, the guy from Iowa").

Try defending your 'lefty'-ness and 'ties to the black community' on an intellectual level, rather than "poor me! My virgin ears have been accosted!" I think you'd find yourself without much to actually say. That may well be true -- I'm no great intellectual -- but I think you've badly misread what I posted, and probably intentionally. I'm not your Michael Moore/Susan Sarandon liberal strawman, and there are plenty of times and forums for discussing the political & social ramifications of interracial relationships. That's just the wrong can of worms -- the question here is, what do you do or say when somebody makes a racial slur? Say something? Keep silent? Give 'em a high-five? I really *don't* think that *I'm* the one who has to be defending my politics or relationships in a situation like that, and your bitchy arguments do little to convince me otherwise.

none of my good mates are racist but sometimes they make heavily disparaging remarks about drug and alcohol users, which is a field i've counselled in quite a bit. i always say "that's a bit judgmental' and maybe tell them a story about one of my former clients, i reckon it's a good way to diffuse the situation and let them know my feelings without it becoming an argument.

-- gem (gemilyinterrupte...), October 26th, 2004.

I guess that's the difference between Oakland (where I hear it every day) and Berkeley, where we stand in solidarity with the exploited textile workers of lower Myanmar.

i ditch them of course. because ideology is more imprtant than friendship.

And, in NoCal, using a euphemism to steer around a repugnant slur is more offensive than the slur itself.

Shee-it, I feel like such a yokel.

I'm sorry for responding in similarly snarky fashion to Andy, though -- I actually feel somewhat the same about the phrase "N-Word". I'm still bound by a heavy taboo on that one, though. In my childhood, "nigger" was a word that would get you in a fight on the corner, and your ass beat again when you got home.

x-post : Briania, so was I

TS: Sticking to your guns vs "Love the sinner, hate the sin"

Er, I got that, hence the there's some nugget of good that can be achieved by eroding away someone's ignorance portion of my post.

Oh, that must be nice for you then.

X-post to anthony. I used to be a 'casual aquaintance' of a fascist - in that we would chat if we met out and about. He had swastikas on his arms and stuff. He was a pretty nice guy - just crazy with regards to politics and probably pretty dangerous.

No problem, I'm just tired and touchy.

But the irony is that in this type of situation (believe me, I've seen it played out a lot) it seems to be the bleeding-heart do-gooder who is the one who gets "ditched." I can tell that's what is transpiring between me and let's call him "Fuckwad." *I* will be the one who's unwelcome at the next post-league brew-down. To me, that's a failure on my part, not a success.

The problem, Briania, is that if everyone else is indifferent it's the person who makes the objection who's thought of as having made a big scene of everything and ruined the evening. Which I totally acknowledge creates a flight response.

also, my father called the FBI on my little brother's best friend's family. they are egyptian, and my dad didn't like the looks of them. he thought they might be terrorists. after getting harrassed by the FBI and the local cops (this is on the VA-WV border), that family has now moved away, and my eight-year-old brother has lost his best friend.

i've befriended a guy in my building who is from guinea. he has been in the us for a month, and he is a very, very bright guy. during a conversation about politics on sunday, he said we needed to "kill the goos." "the goos?" i asked. "yes. goos. j-e-w-s." i then explained to him how grossly, grossly wrong he was. for a solid half-hour i explained how awful that was to say -- using words only a month-long english-speaker would understand -- and the conversation was left with him apologizing profusely and saying repeatedly, "i so wrong." he genuinely seemed shocked by his own beliefs.

random person: "do you know a girl named shaniqua?"
lisa: "no, what does she look like?"
rp: "hmm... well, she wears jeans a lot..."
lisa: "anything distinguishing other than that?"
rp: "uh... hoop earrings..."

and on and on and on until:
lisa: "is shanique black?"
rp: "oh. i dunno. i've never noticed!"

and apparently this was every conversation ever.

The worst parts, purely on a personal level, is that after the odd casually prejudiced remark (even in jest) are first of all having to feel complicit, but much more than this the fact that they make all other comments by the same friends feel more suspect, for me.

Hence when a friend makes what might be an innocent jibe about an item of clothing myself or someone else is wearing, alarm bells go off in my head and I worry about what a conservative homogenising asshole they might be! This sounds extreme but in the absence of a few redeeming friends, I spent most of this summer with a group of people with whom I have little in common, and it can be very odd being constantly in a situation where you feel pinched by peoples remarks.

Of course a major part of the above is the guilt at sitting back and saying nothing, or worse, laughing along. It's amazing how vile some comments would be taken out of context, but in a room (and a country, pretty much) full of middle class white dudes, stuff slips by very insidiously. locker room and all that, I nearly went insane this summer not having relaxed open minded friends living within walking distance. I mean if you're trying to have an end of the day relaxing drink, feeling riled by stuff like this is so tiring and annoying.

Of course I'm not implying I as a white middle class Irishman suffer from prejudice in anything but as frivolous a way as the above!

the assumption was based on race, which i knew to be an ugly and offensive generalisation, yet it was correct - at least from a statistical point of view, but i asked a question based on that assumption because of my own experiences and observations.

i suppose what i am wondering is whether anyone here would consider that racist? i would accept that it may well be, in a 'a lot of X people have a Y attitude, and it really annoys me' way. which i suppose can be linked to Yancey's father's comment about his ex-Jewish friends - a generalisation too far, based sadly on apparent, persistent stereotypes perpetuated by typer and typee.

(xpost: Blount, do you actually have any idea of the situation I'm grew up in? There is very little about my classism that is "kneejerk".)

When I first heard the story about allegations of racism in Zimbabwean cricket, I literally did not know "which way round" it was - were white cricketers claiming they were disriminated against or black ones? Admittedly part of this came from not being a cricket fan and not watching Zimbabwe play and therefore not noting what hue the majority of their players were. I have no doubt however that Ian Smith and Robert Mugabe are as racist as each other.

*tho it's made to be, the question i asked my friend being a case in point

sigh

another friend of mine is always winding me up about being (a) racist (because i often complain along the lines of 'there's too many people in this city/country' and 'dammit this client is tight' (my recent clients have all been Jewish, tho it was only said friend that pointed this out to me, and again i only mention it because yancey reminded me of it). i hope people agree neither of those comments can be construed as racist without a more specific, intentional context (unavailable in this instance because there genuinely isn't one!).

Stevem: This is what I meant about acknowledging things, above; there's nothing inherently wrong with looking at a person and imagining that certain things may or may not be in their background; we do this to everyone we meet, whether it's based on race or where they grew up or what kind of clothes they wear. It's a question of how you do it, I think, not if. And in situations where the topic isn't something as sensitive as race, I think we all know instinctively when our deductions are reasonable and when they're stupid or insensitive, right?

I naturally doubt the verity of this story, but if there's really a girl named Lasagne out there...

agree/disagree?

Suppose it backs up Alba's point about ppl only being racist if they hold positions of power.

Thanks for the explanation of Shaneequa , Nabisco. Incidentally a mate of mine here in Oxford has a gf called Chantelle whom I assumed was black prior to meeting her and finding out she wasn't, as all of the Chantelles I met whilst growing up in London were black....I guess everyone makes these kind of assumptions. Like I would prolly assume a gy called Jermaine was black or mixed race as all of the ppl I've heard of with the name are black or mixed race singers or footballers.

For me, the issue stevem is trying to discuss, extends to the fact that if I hear someone describing, for example, something that happened to them in traffic one morning or other mundane events, there are gears in my brain that automatically do the math and figure out what color the person probably was (along with age and education and other details not provided in the telling). I also know my friends do this, and we've discussed it. My rationalization is that it's not incorrect unless I step into the territory of generalizing with actual prejudice in mind - being able to make an educated guess or judgement call based on simple cues in a story is not the same as making a blanket generalization that "white people drive like THIS* and so forth.

xpost - I'm not sure I agree, Mark. Possibly I just don't know enough about Mugabe, but if the "oppression" in question is just land seizure, that seems to me to be coming from a reform impulse more than any racial animosity. Possibly a dangerously radical reform impulse, and possibly one sold to people with an appeal to racial divisiveness, but still: it's not inherently racist, is it? Possibly there are elements of the situation I'm unaware of; I'm sure your world news keeps closer to this than mine.

essentially yes. it's a dead end tho because you feel half-ashamed for being able to make that assumption (as in 'guess correctly') and half-angry that the stereotypes you know exist but you dislike because it conflicts with your own view of how people regardless of race or cultural background should conduct themselves in what is/should be a secular society have been proven once again.

Like I said, it's always self-described "liberal" people who want to stifle 'unpopular' opinions that don't somehow advance the agenda of the MOVE party or something.

Not that I owe anyone anything, but between bouts of beating off to Ann Coulter and spraypainting crude Old Glory stencils on the local Indian deli, you should know that I:

Am a registered Independent, as of this election year, and consider myself a libertarian by default. I would NEVER - under any circumstances - vote for George Bush.

Was vegan for eight years - and when I say strict, I mean no sugar - and still feel VERY strongly about animal rights / vivisection / etc. As much as I'm a fan of the Nuge, he'd probably hate my guts should we ever sit down to lunch together. Also because I...

Liberally use drugs. and...

Published an anti-death penalty fanzine that was cited in more than one national publication (and one punk record), and circulated as far as Japan, and I'm still very proud of it. And

My dad, a retired cop, still counts me as 'the pinkest pinko he's ever known.' Could this be the SAME Roger Adultery who haunts the dreams of the ILM PC Police?

In other words, I'm hardly Pat Buchanan. And although I hate that I have to explain myself at all, especially in such a forum as this, I feel it's necessary, because no matter how many ILMers meet me in person (every one of whom could vouch for my character, I'd think), no matter how many times I insist I'm not a 'republican,' I'm dogged by "Roger Adultery in lefty-hating shockah!" garbage.

If there's one thing that I truly do 'hate,' it's irrationality. Choosing 'ideology over friends' is irrational, unless you're 15 years old and doing whatever Le Tigre tell you to do.

Isn't 'diversity' supposed to be the law of the land? What if, God forbid, someone you know / like is 'diverse' enough to want to vote for George Bush? Do you stop talking to them?

If so...well that's the queerest thing I've ever fucking heard.

isn't it possible that sometimes you are friends with people because of their ideology?

Headed by Bugs Meanie, I'll bet, but Encyclopedia Brown'll foil 'em again!

He's a really good guy - a good, fair boss, and good company.

I guess Riot Gear would quit this job, right?

also - food for thought - what happens when you befriend someone because of their ideology and then that ideology changes? Witness the many moronic 'beatings' handed out by straight edge gangs in places like Syracuse, on former bandmates and friends who 'broke the X," circa 1990-now.

and I'm not sure about him being a great guy. difference between "hey he's nice to me, he must be a wonderful fella" and "wow, he's nice to me, too bad he's sort of a close-minded jerk."

be honest its not that big a deal usually with my friends, any exchange of racism is usually a joke, as in its not being serious (um, not explained very well).
if anyone does say anything truely racist i usually just tell them to shut up, my cousin was over here a while back (he lives in the countryside where its all white) we just come out of a shop, and he looks at me and mumbles 'fucking pakis' under his breath, like i was going to agree/laugh with him, i just slapped him round the head then continued like nothing happed (hes young, ive since developed some kind of understanding of multiculturism with him, hes mixed race himself, blame his environment making him ignorant.

I note you never actually addressed what I brought up in my own response to you earlier.

it's symptomatic of a larger attitude of hers - that if you're somehow, however obscurely, aligned to something (if you "like some black music" or "are 1/5 jewish"), then you've got a kind of moral immunity that shields you from any responsibility to think about what you're saying before you say it.

not quite sure now how this ties into the larger themes here, but i've come too far not to post it.

no one here tried to wail on you first roger. and yet you flail away at p.c. strawmen, only acknowledging someone if they say something you can find fault in.

anyway, i wasn't making an analogy.

And I didn't claim anyone here tried to 'wail' on me at all. I couldn't help but draw first blood here - self righteous political correctness hits a nerve with me, especially in the context like this, where it usually goes completely unchallenged.

But maybe it's only ok for african americans to want to preserve their precious heritage /culture, right? MY culture is McDonalds, farm foreclosures and football injuries, right?

"poor me! My virgin ears have been accosted!"

Also, sorry if it seemed like I was putting words in your mouth, Roger.

Who is this 'black community' you speak of? Do they hold meetings? Are you a member, Briania?
Or if I was mean, or mocking.

your buddies Susan Sarandon and Michael Moore
Or tarred you with an undeserved brush

Why is it always self-described liberals who are always wanting to shut people up?
Or wrongfully accusatory.

Hope we've got this all cleared up now that we've established that I don't know all there is to know about you and you clearly don't know a goddamned thing about me.

Punk was once an answer to years of crap,
A way of saying no where we'd always said yep.
But the moment we saw a way to be free,
They invented a dividing line, street credibility.
The qualifying factors are politics and class,
Left wing macho street fighters willing to kick arse.
They said because of racism they'd come out on the street.
It was just a form of fascism for the socialist elite.
Bigotry and blindness, a marxist con,
Another clever trick to keep us all in line.
Neat little labels to keep us all apart,
To keep us all divided when the troubles start.

Pogo on a nazi, spit upon a jew,
Vicious mindless violence that offers nothing new.
Left wing violence, right wing violence, all seems much the same,
Bully boys out fighting, it's just the same old game.
Boring fucking politics that'll get us all shot,
Left wing, right wing, you can stuff the lot.
Keep your petty prejudice, I don't see the point,
ANARCHY AND FREEDOM IS WHAT I WANT.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38701000/jpg/_38701491_taylor150.jpg

(x-post)

http://www.taste.de/A/rubriken/kino/Neue_Filme/images/lebow02.jpg

It's the whole game face thing. If they owned every tiny bit of the world, they'd complain that the Sun had it in for them.

Please, this is unpleasant. I like Roger - I find his politics baffling and odd, but other than that he is fine. He uses phrases that I find unpleasant, and associated with the right, especially the racist right - but I don't think this is how he means it.

This isn't cool if everyone just circles in for the kill, is it? We're capable of a rational discussion about these things, and sometimes we all get hotheaded. If you believe he is being contrarian, calling him on it isn't going to help. And Roger, reacting offensively when under attack isn't a good tactic either.

I hope I don't offend both the pinkos and the nazis, but please, calm down.

now,

uhhh...

cinniblount, buddy:

i didn't introduce the word 'wailing' to this thread. Read carefully.

Soul patch? Nope. I currently have a neck beard, Freeway style. I can't even grow anything resembling a mustache.

I have to take exception to being called a 'pussy,' but since this is a messageboard and I refuse to join in the preposterous dick-measuring (i win, by the way), I won't threaten or ridicule, because that's what 11 year old white kids do on hip hop message boards.

That said, since your invitation (moderator: note the invitation) was so eloquent, I'd be more than happy to take a swing at you any time you like, pussy.

but really we're not.

The thing I really hate about race issues is that they're meaningless yet all-important. In a perfect world paradoxial things like that would implode.
OT$$

I understood what he meant by that - its not a fucking matter of AVOIDING the fact anyone is of whatever race. Its just... it doesnt fucking matter, you know? Hell maybe we're lucky we live in a city where there literally are so many different nationalities here, there is really no point picking on anyone. Yes, of course there is racism, and classism and whatever else-ism.

I dont see the need to focus so hard on it all the time though, when we're all just fucking human beings. Jesus some people here can be pious.

Ugh, this sort of crap is the only thing, apart from tedious Momus threads, I hate about ILX.

OTM. I learned that early on. People are primed to attack, will make leaps from what you say to what they think you mean, and pick apart every word if it gives them a chance to chastise your moral character. But don't listen to me, I'm just a xenophoic, homophic, woman-hater.

anyway...

I'm pretty sure this is an urban legend. I've heard it twice from two different people who live in completely different places.

I must admit I've never been called fat before, and now that I have, TWICE, I have to say, I don't know what people get so upset about.

Limbaugh? That's sad. What is it exactly about me that threatens you so much that you'd threaten physical violence on a message board? Is it because I'm clearly smarter than you? Yeah, that used to make the jocks in high school mad, too.

Be honest, cinniblount - you've never been in a real fight in your life. You can posture all you like here, because you know you're ill prepared for anything more dangerous than a snowball fight. I'll let it go because a) the practicality of me crossing your path is slim, and b) everyone here on ILM possesses the intelligence to know that this is the case. So maybe go fantasy box on a wrestling messageboard or something. This is just sad, and you're making yourself look like the brainless macho dickhead you're trying to make me out to be.

FWIW, though, just hope we never DO cross paths, because I've been known to throw hands for much, much less.

Colin - did you read my post?

Nuge-style redneck? I don't know why I even bother explaining myself on ILE anymore. I can't hate jocks, love animals, and own guns at the same time?

http://images.canadiantire.ca/media/images/Automotive/Security/SteeringWheelLocks/0340656_160_CC_2eff.jpg

-- Alex in SF

haha!! the ironing is delicious!

i nominate thee for the "most un-self-aware poster of 2004" award, aka pot-meet-kettle

I grew up in the south--and people down south think they have some lock on the "truth" about "black people" and "Jews" and so forth, as if the rest of the world "hasn't lived with them like we do." Yeah, and they've been to Boston, New York and Chicago (and Denver for that matter). My idiot brother-in-law regularly uses the word "nigger" in front of his young kids, and his football/fishin' buddies all use it too. Went to Bourbon Street once and saw a lotta "niggers" down there, they were weird. So I'm well acquianted with this mentality. Lots of older southerners, and younger ones too, have this unhealthy fixation on "race-mixing" and I find it so risible. Anyway, someone says something like that to me, that's it--they're axed (if only I could find a legal way to ship my bro-in-law to, I dunno, Kenya...).