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i really fucking hate this country

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i mean i really fucking hate it.

― results not typical (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:21 (twenty-one years ago)

so leave.

― Roger Fidelity (Roger Fidelity), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:23 (twenty-one years ago)

i plan to.

― results not typical (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:23 (twenty-one years ago)

when is new york going to secede from the rest of the nation? everyone else already hates us snooty educated pinkos. can europe please adopt us?

― results not typical (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:25 (twenty-one years ago)

omg chris matthews just called the gay marriage issue "avant garde"

― results not typical (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:26 (twenty-one years ago)

he said it was too avant garde for the black community. sigh.

― results not typical (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"when is new york going to secede from the rest of the nation? everyone else already hates us snooty educated pinkos. can europe please adopt us?"

Two words: Rudy Giuliani.

Don't kid yourself that New York is immune from all this shit.

― Lefty, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:28 (twenty-one years ago)

When my country gets a crap government, we can move to another country. When the US gets a crap government, the only way to escape it is by moving to another solar system.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:28 (twenty-one years ago)

so leave.

and YOU don't come back to NYC.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:29 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah and most of us hated rudy when he was in office. some of us still don't trust him. (xpost)

― results not typical (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I love this myth of New York as "educated.' This is probably not the best time, but briefly: I grew up in Manhattan, and recently relocated to the South, where the people are supposed to be backward and dumb.

Well, no one here has quoted Chaucer to me, but I've met 14 year olds who can take apart an engine and rebuild it in the time it takes 'educated New Yorkers" to cut a Mumia stencil. The people I've met here have real life skills, the kind that 'educated' people like you need when your car battery dies in the middle of the night. When was the last time somebody called you specifically at 4am with an emergency that only you could fix?

I say go.

adn I'll NEVER move back to NYC. That's my promise to you, buddy. Siberia first.

― Roger Fidelity (Roger Fidelity), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I blame the media, I really do. Most average joes believe the media, and the media happily fed them a bunch of shit. People think "oh hes nice trustworthy George and lets not change anythign and he's a God man" and thats it. No further thinking.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder what Tony Blair is thinking right now. Hmm.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Careful, Trayce, you almost sound like a conservative. Next thing you'll be protesting the income tax.

― Roger Fidelity (Roger Fidelity), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:33 (twenty-one years ago)

People think "oh hes nice trustworthy George and lets not change anythign and he's a God man" and thats it.

That's odd, because I see its face and think 'what a fucking smug arsehole.'

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder what Tony Blair is thinking right now. Hmm.

'Gosh! I've run out of lube'

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Still, the majority of voters in NYC apparently favored Giuliani. You and I don't like it one bit, but that's the sad fact.

All I'm saying is that your vision of NYC as insulated/removed from the sickening farce going on tonight is simply incorrect.

― Lefty, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:34 (twenty-one years ago)

(Actually I'm very glad I took some time off and had some sleep, lots of knotted tension earlier. At this point, now I'm interested in how these next couple of months go in the run-up to the scheduled Iraqi elections. The attack on Falluja is imminent and while I presume that the forces being built up by the US and company will be enough, I wonder what, exactly, happens next.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:34 (twenty-one years ago)

i agree... republicans are good at fixing things. like elections!

― results not typical (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:35 (twenty-one years ago)

while i agree that there are different means of intelligence and that mechanical knowledge is very impressive, don't assume that vocational smarts = enlightenment, roger. i grew up in the south -- where my stepfather is a mechanic; i grew up working in a garage -- and while i miss it (and some of the people there), it was far and away the most unhappy period of my life, primarily thanks to dumbass jocks who resisted anything even remotely contrary to the status quo. the south has a leisurely pace that i miss, but it also means it's so fucking slow to change that it can verge on the criminal.

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:35 (twenty-one years ago)

(multiple x-post)

― results not typical (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:36 (twenty-one years ago)

How is blaming the media and being against taxes a conservative thing? I really do not understand US party policy.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:36 (twenty-one years ago)

ps... i'm a northerner and i can fix PLENTY of things. we're not all helpless.

― results not typical (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:37 (twenty-one years ago)

(Yeah, this would be a good time to get the hell out of Falluja if you hapen to be hanging out there. Not that there wasn't going to be a move either way but this totally green lights it.)

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't assume that tony pretension = enlightenment either.

The rah-rah flag-waving and "America the Beautiful" slopfest all over NYC post-9/11 was a sickening sight to behold.

― Lefty, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:38 (twenty-one years ago)

(Well, it was greenlighted anyway, troops have been moving into place for weeks now. The presumption is that this is enough to smash 'the resistance' or whatever they're calling it, for good. I'm hardly so sanguine.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:39 (twenty-one years ago)

and also maybe the northeast could still be a center of industry if reagan hadn't fucked them over so badly! rust belt RIP

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:39 (twenty-one years ago)

The rah-rah flag-waving and "America the Beautiful" slopfest all over NYC post-9/11 was a sickening sight to behold.

tourists.

― results not typical (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:39 (twenty-one years ago)

The people I've met here have real life skills, the kind that 'educated' people like you need when your car battery dies in the middle of the nigh

This kind of sums up Roger's entire history from what I've seen. Whine all you want about Mumia lib'ruls, but you're the most pathetic cliché in the book. Every stereotype of a young, angry, ignorant and scared straight white male in the book.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:40 (twenty-one years ago)

closet-case too

― phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:41 (twenty-one years ago)

i changed a bike tire the other day!

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:41 (twenty-one years ago)

As an Australian can I just say everyone on both sides is looking like a right DORK at the moment? Jesus everyone take a chill pill, you won't be dead in the morning.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:44 (twenty-one years ago)

that last 'in the book' should be 'rolled into one'

People like Roger are maybe the last group that can get me angry. I can laugh at most racists, fundies are just nuts - but the anti-intellectual and wholly irrational crowd piss me off. Grow the fuck up. If you're intimidated by everyone's book-learnin' crawl back in your cave.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:44 (twenty-one years ago)

While I can express abstract admiration for the structure and mores of your solipsistic world, results not typical, you really are living in denial. I've lived in NYC and it's hardly a Mecca of well-educated pinkos. Perhaps you need to get out of SoHo more often and you may just then become a wee bit less myopic.

― Lefty, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:44 (twenty-one years ago)

(Shifting subjects, it's very quiet around here in my neck of OC, from what I can hear. No venting from any of the apartments nearby or the like, but no sounds of celebration either. Not that I necessarily would have expected it, but still, it's all calm, reflective even. Very glad I wasn't following any of the TV coverage, y'know? The sun will in fact rise tomorrow and life will continue. I'm strongly disappointed, of course, my vent post earlier says as much. But like I said in it, if tonight was not the night, well, a pity indeed. The joke is on all of us now, and indeed it's a killing one. But I am patient yet.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:44 (twenty-one years ago)

God, I fucking hate it when people express criticism/frustrating for the current state of affairs and some asshole tells them to "love America or leave it." Because if you have a problem with the system, the answer is to shuttayomouth and get the fuck out.

RAH RAH RAH

Conservatives don't have a monopoly on patriotism, as much as they'd like to think so. I identify strongly with the initial post, and it's *because* I love my country that I'm as angry as I am, that I hate what it is doing right now so deeply.

― Laura E (laurae55), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:45 (twenty-one years ago)

The sun will in fact rise tomorrow and life will continue.

With Bush in power, not even that much is certain.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:46 (twenty-one years ago)

still, it physically sickens me that bush has gotten the # of votes that he has.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned is the Zen master.

― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Milo and Laura OTM. Grow the fuck up and quit trying to turn every facet of life into some machismo contest.

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:47 (twenty-one years ago)

If he wanted to blow shit up I fear he already would have, I do think everyone is being a wee bit silly now. Except ned.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:47 (twenty-one years ago)

If he wanted to blow shit up I fear he already would have

Your point being?

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:49 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/naturalresources/images/3474-47.jpg

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:50 (twenty-one years ago)

My mom's idea that New York should join the EU makes more and more sense.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:50 (twenty-one years ago)

take new england with you

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned is the Zen master.

Heh, well, not that far. Maybe all I'm saying is just a variant on one of my favorite things Linus ever said in Peanuts:

"I love humanity. It's PEOPLE I can't stand!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't say love it or leave it. Hate it all you want, I don't care. By all means, disagree, question, hate. But don't talk about leaving it if you're not GOING to, is all. I thought that was pretty clear.

― Roger Fidelity (Roger Fidelity), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:52 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean i really fucking hate it.
-- results not typical (theundergroundhom...) (webmail), November 3rd, 2004 12:21 AM. (Jody Beth Rosen) (later) (link)

so leave.
-- Roger Fidelity (blindjimdeat...) (webmail), November 3rd, 2004 12:23 AM. (Roger Fidelity) (later) (link)

― Laura E (laurae55), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Eat a dick, Roger.

New England can come, definitely. Maybe the Left Coast too.

Jesus. Can the country be more divided? It's like Rove has carved out exactly 51%.

― Aaron W (Aaron W), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:53 (twenty-one years ago)

These threads are all really silly :(

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:53 (twenty-one years ago)

yea, lets not give the red states any of our fucking economy. dipshits. try buying a new highway now

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Trayce, Bush Part II can be infinitely worse than Bush Part I. He has nothing to fear now, he can't be defeated, and I think it's been somewhat obvious that the 'best interests of the nation' have never been at his heart. If invading Syria or Iran fulfills the goals of Bible-thumpers or neo-con cronies, he has no reason not to do it (aside from mid-term elections).


ILX reminds me tonight that there's no cynic like a frustrated idealist. Everyone expects the best of Americans, we care, we want to avoid more wars, we're not stupid. And then the worst comes true and it's hard to deal with.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you said that 8 posts previous, Tracey. Anything new to add?

― Laura E (laurae55), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:55 (twenty-one years ago)

(Also I don't think it's any surprise I found myself listening to early Verve and early Cocteaus tonight -- comfort music, literally, yes? Swaddled and warm and etc. You search for it where you can find it. Combined with the time change and staying up all night on Saturday and so forth, I think I just needed to detox somehow. Now, to get to 20,000 words in Nanowrimo here, and to see how the local California elections did (there are a couple of key propositions in particular I am anxious to see pass or not).)

he has no reason not to do it

Well, there are two key ones right now, manpower and cash. My major concern is not so much that as it is the judiciary.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I knew some Americans were stupid but having watched too many cartoons as a kid I was hoping the Good guy would win.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:57 (twenty-one years ago)

trayce you fucking annoy me.

― phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:59 (twenty-one years ago)

ditto.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 05:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Er... wtf?

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I am angry Bush might win, I just think its sad everyone's anger is misdirected, Ned's been nice and calm about the sadness, I acknowledged that. WTF was the attack on me for?

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:07 (twenty-one years ago)

For the love of Allah don't abandon us to the red states. I'm to the left of pretty much all of you, bred in the buckle of the Bible Belt. There's a history of progressivism and free thought in the red states, we weren't always Cro-Magnon thugs. Texas used to elect one of the great left-wing Senators of all time (Ralph Yarborough).

xpost - manpower he has ways of working with (if all else fails just bomb whomever he dislikes into rubble) or a draft if it comes to that, cash I don't think bothers him. What's another $500bn debt?

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:07 (twenty-one years ago)

please ... leave trayce alone. i know that we're on pins and needles tonight, but don't beat up on her. she's done nothing wrong.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:07 (twenty-one years ago)

No no come on Phil, I've been nothing but nice you you, tell me what the hell that was for, because I have no fucking idea. I said one random comment. Man.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:08 (twenty-one years ago)

"Well, no one here has quoted Chaucer to me, but I've met 14 year olds who can take apart an engine and rebuild it in the time it takes 'educated New Yorkers" to cut a Mumia stencil. The people I've met here have real life skills, the kind that 'educated' people like you need when your car battery dies in the middle of the night. When was the last time somebody called you specifically at 4am with an emergency that only you could fix?"

That's because most New Yorkers don't have cars. You're buying into a really idiotic myth. You only need go as far south as New Jersey to find plenty of people with practical skills.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Thanks though Tad.

I'm upset for ALL of you, I wanna see less anger at each other and more at them who deserve it. If that makes me annoying, then thank you ILX, I'll be going.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Also, vast difference between mechanical and moral/cultural intelligence.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:09 (twenty-one years ago)

If I can second the 'no harshing on Trayce' sentiments here, please?

manpower he has ways of working with (if all else fails just bomb whomever he dislikes into rubble) or a draft if it comes to that, cash I don't think bothers him. What's another $500bn debt?

He can TRY and just do a bombing campaign but I have my doubts. Cash, meanwhile, will I think become a graver concern for him soon enough.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah Phil, that was well out of order. We're all pretty enraged, but attacking Trayce??

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Im actually really upset now, so um, bye guys.

I might come back in a few days.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:10 (twenty-one years ago)

:-(

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry. Its just this was what i meant by the silliness. A bunch of like minded intelligent people all screaming shit at each other. Sad. :/

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Carn Phil, apologise.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:11 (twenty-one years ago)

the really scary thing is the fact that it will be republican across the board... president, senate and house.

― todd swiss (eliti), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:12 (twenty-one years ago)

c;mon. phil was not the only one saying she was being annoying.

― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:12 (twenty-one years ago)

It was already, though, Todd.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:13 (twenty-one years ago)

i will be very honest here. one of the reasons why i am so upset ... and pissed ... about this election is that if bushco wins, i may be out of a job (at least in the short-term). bushco wants nothing less than a radical overhaul of our tax system -- particularly the estate & gift tax. this is a real concern for me. bushco may not do this, but w/ him being elected AND having the entire congress makes this that much more likely.

there's the other stuff, of course, and i would've still opposed bushco even if i had no financial stake. and i honestly can't see what kerry and edwards could've done differently.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:13 (twenty-one years ago)

And let me add that there is NOTHING that I am MORE SICK OF than hearing about the so-called REAL AMERICA that supposedly exists in the south. BULL-FUCKING-SHIT!

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Whatever, Trayce. People are genuinely upset and hurt, and you're "harshing" on them for being "silly." Twice. In 8 posts. I found it patronizing, and it pissed me off too.

― Laura E (laurae55), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:13 (twenty-one years ago)

what we're going to see now is plenty of classism. red states = ignorant jesus freaks. which, at this very second, is a scarily easy to sympathise with.

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:14 (twenty-one years ago)

exactly.

I think you said that 8 posts previous, Tracey. Anything new to add?
-- Laura E (Laura.Hud$0...) (webmail), November 3rd, 2004 4:55 PM. (laurae55) (later) (link)

It's seems very contrary to sit there saying how silly these threads are, when really it's only because people are passionate about the subject, which to my mind can only ever be a good thing.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:14 (twenty-one years ago)

One last thing. NO I WAS NOT LAURA.

I said the thread(s) were silly, because everyone is clearly in agreeance that things look bad, bar one or two like Roger, but instead of rational debate, everyone is being angry and rude and unkind, and thats what I meant was silly. Thats simply it. I'm frustrated and sad by this.

Beyond that, I'm in agreeance with everyone that the potential result sucks, and why I was zeroed in on by you and Phil, who I have nothing at all do do with day to day on this board, baffles me greatly.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:16 (twenty-one years ago)

IOW I was by no means saying anyone here is silly in their thoughts. Please can everyone chill? This helps no one.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:17 (twenty-one years ago)

If he wanted to blow shit up I fear he already would have, I do think everyone is being a wee bit silly now. Except ned.
-- Trayce (spamspanke...) (webmail), November 3rd, 2004 12:47 AM. (trayce) (later) (link)

It sounds an awful lot like you're saying everyone is being a wee bit silly. Maybe you didn't mean it that way, but it's how it reads.

― Laura E (laurae55), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:19 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I didnt, so theres nothing more I can say. Sorry *shrug*.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Initially I thought that too Laura, but even then I didn't see any point going all hard-arse on Trayce for it.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Trayce, you were being annoying. It's only the internet. Get over it. I'm probably being annoying right now writing this. BUT I DON:T CARE.

― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:21 (twenty-one years ago)

http://vcl.ctrl-c.liu.se/vcl/Artists/Desiree-Kern/Catfight.jpg

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Man, I wish I had a TV.

― Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:21 (twenty-one years ago)

You know the hilarious thing is I'm probably one of the more laid back "who cares" people on this thing. Ah, well.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Can't we scream a little at one of the tensest moments of our lives? Get off our case!

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:22 (twenty-one years ago)

but they don't have Pimp My Ride or In N Out Burger in Canada.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:23 (twenty-one years ago)

There are a lot of worried, almost-scared people, Trayce. No one knows what we can expect out of the next four years of Bush or how much worse it could get. People are right to be passionate.

'Who cares' and reasoned discussion with a troll would be a mildly fucked up view for an American leftie.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Trayce, it's really annoying to be told (in essence) "just relax it's not the end of the world," when you are convinced that the consequences are extremely serious.

And when you are writing quickly at least partly to let off steam sometimes it feels good to say unhelpful things.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"If you're intimidated by everyone's book-learnin' crawl back in your cave."

It's not that people have book-learning, it's that most of them think they have more book-learning then they really do.

Those are the kind of people that really suck.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree, I think it's great everyone is passionate. I want Kerry to win. Maybe he wont and thats scary.

I wasnt on anyones case and I'm sorry thats obviously how some people saw it, I made a really throwaway remark. I didn't actually mean this is not an issue to get worked up about, not at all! God, I must be really crap at expressing myself :/

I am sad to think I annoy some people. I will go now. Sorry.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:28 (twenty-one years ago)

(I do wish the name calling would stop.)

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:29 (twenty-one years ago)

jesus christ. you dont need to resort to such dramatics.

― phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Phil, I'll say this as simply and calmly as I can: I am genuinely sorry I came across like an ass, thats all. So I'm going to step aside and get a clear head. Thats it. :)

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow Phil, take a chill pill.

I'm avoiding ALL world political news over the next four years. It's too depressing and frightening to even think about.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm happy Bush won, but my state sucks for voting mostly all democratic.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:37 (twenty-one years ago)

You can let it go now and I think everyone will be fine, Trayce. A few people took issue with your comment, but nobody hates you. Life continues.

― Laura E (laurae55), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:37 (twenty-one years ago)

But i don't care too much about my state. At least the senate and house iare republican too, so Bush can get a lot of good done with them.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I certainly don't hate Trayce at all.

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:38 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah thats what i meant

― phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I should prolly explain that one source of frustration is that us Aussies have already been thru all this too, so seeing it twice is heartbreaking :(

Peace out, y'all :)

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:39 (twenty-one years ago)

"I love you more than life itself, but you're all f***ing mad".

-Ozzy Osbourne

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:40 (twenty-one years ago)

At least the senate and house iare republican too, so Bush can get a lot of good done with them.

I'm somewhat mystified by your saying this as if it's a new thing. You do realize that this has been the case since 2002.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:40 (twenty-one years ago)

but they gained some, so the opposiving votes will be even less. I'm kind of just more curious about what the outcome of the next four years will be, and I'm in favor of the more interesting then the more good.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:42 (twenty-one years ago)

in least heartless sort of way

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Nairn - while we're being all 'liberals are like this,' I'll step in with "you're not smart enough to know how dumb you are"

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:43 (twenty-one years ago)

ugh, i can't even write anymore. Is Roger then only one on ILX who doesn't hate Bush?

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:44 (twenty-one years ago)

you're not dumb enough to know how smart you are.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Is Roger then only one on ILX who doesn't hate Bush?

There's Keith M. I do think that's about it, though.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Nairn, what "good" might I ask do you imagine he'll accomplish?

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm happy Bush won

Why?

I'm not using this as a launchpad to flame the shit out of you, I seriously want to know why anyone would vote for Bush.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, yeah, what Hurting said.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:50 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, I can explain my point of view.
For me, wisdom is a much better trait than intelligence, and there is many significant differences between wisdom and intelligence. One of the main ones being humility, which many very intelligent people lack.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:50 (twenty-one years ago)

can we ban people with disagree with please?

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:50 (twenty-one years ago)

um, that wasn't an answet to Autumn Almanac, my answer to why I'm happy bush won is above:

"'m in favor of the more interesting then the more good.

in least heartless sort of way"

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:51 (twenty-one years ago)


oh, I can explain my point of view.
For me, wisdom is a much better trait than intelligence, and there is many significant differences between wisdom and intelligence. One of the main ones being humility, which many very intelligent people lack.

-- A Nairn (moreta...) (webmail), November 3rd, 2004 1:50 AM. (moretap) (later) (link)


http://www.paleface.net/images/3dbox1.gif

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I would have been happy if Kerry won too. I'm just being optimistic in an overly pessimistic thread

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:53 (twenty-one years ago)

um, that wasn't an answet to Autumn Almanac, my answer to why I'm happy bush won is above:

"'m in favor of the more interesting then the more good.

in least heartless sort of way"

Um, okay I don't understand that at all, but thanks for explaining. :)

xpost: Ahhhhhhhhh. Fair enough.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:54 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, I can explain my point of view.
For me, wisdom is a much better trait than intelligence, and there is many significant differences between wisdom and intelligence. One of the main ones being humility, which many very intelligent people lack.
-- A Nairn (moreta...)

i'm sorry but WHEN THE FUCK AS GEORGE W BUSH SHOWN "HUMILITY"? or "wisom" for that matter?

fucker can't even admit when he makes a mistake.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:54 (twenty-one years ago)

For me, wisdom is a much better trait than intelligence, and there is many significant differences between wisdom and intelligence. One of the main ones being humility, which many very intelligent people lack.

Ugh, this is such a meaningless platitude. "Seven Habits of Highly Annoying People"

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:54 (twenty-one years ago)

For me, wisdom is a much better trait than intelligence, and there is many significant differences between wisdom and intelligence. One of the main ones being humility, which many very intelligent people lack

like i said

"'m in favor of the more interesting then the more good

you realize that's pathological, right?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:55 (twenty-one years ago)

fuck i'm tired

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:55 (twenty-one years ago)


oh, I can explain my point of view.
For me, wisdom is a much better trait than intelligence, and there is many significant differences between wisdom and intelligence. One of the main ones being humility, which many very intelligent people lack.

-- A Nairn (moreta...) (webmail), November 3rd, 2004 1:50 AM. (moretap) (later) (link)


http://www.uff9.net/ff9/images/mini-status.jpg

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:56 (twenty-one years ago)

i've been refreshing the ohio county-by-county voting screen like every 30 seconds. eyes hurt.

― phil-two (phil-two), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"oh, I can explain my point of view.
For me, wisdom is a much better trait than intelligence, and there is many significant differences between wisdom and intelligence. One of the main ones being humility, which many very intelligent people lack."

Nairn, I am not trying to flame you either, but can you please explain what "good" Bush is going to accomplish with complete control of government? Or what good he has accomplished, for that matter?

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm really tired right now, and two people just misinterpreted my posts. I'll explain myself then go to sleep.
The comment about my point of view and wisdom was directed at Roger's discussion about intelligence and NYC.

my oother comment is that I think Bush would do some things that may seem a little bit more extremem than that which Kerry would do. Therefore his next four years would be interesting (and I'm guessing not much more worse than anything else)

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:57 (twenty-one years ago)

oh, I can explain my point of view.
For me, wisdom is a much better trait than intelligence, and there is many significant differences between wisdom and intelligence. One of the main ones being humility, which many very intelligent people lack.
-- A Nairn (moreta...)

http://www.flaming-pie.net/~atn/images/september11/NewWTC_1.jpg

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:58 (twenty-one years ago)

my oother comment is that I think Bush would do some things that may seem a little bit more extremem than that which Kerry would do. Therefore his next four years would be interesting (and I'm guessing not much more worse than anything else)

-- A Nairn (moreta...), November 3rd, 2004.

http://www.flaming-pie.net/~atn/images/september11/NewWTC_1.jpg

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it will be much worse.
xpost

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 06:59 (twenty-one years ago)

"Nairn, I am not trying to flame you either, but can you please explain what "good" Bush is going to accomplish with complete control of government? Or what good he has accomplished, for that matter?"

Good as in not doing nothing, actually doing something. My idea of good is getting some agenda done

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Right. What agenda?

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"Good as in not doing nothing, actually doing something. My idea of good is getting some agenda done"

even if that agenda is bullshit? ugh...

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:01 (twenty-one years ago)

my oother comment is that I think Bush would do some things that may seem a little bit more extremem than that which Kerry would do. Therefore his next four years would be interesting (and I'm guessing not much more worse than anything else)

"Dude, 1200 more GIs died this year."
"Dude, that's so interesting!"

You're fucking insane.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:01 (twenty-one years ago)

any agenda.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, so loads and loads of new wars + loads and loads of death = interesting? Or am I misunderstanding you?

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:01 (twenty-one years ago)

My idea of good is getting some agenda done

it's hard work!

moron

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Just because they are Americans? How many non-Americans will be alive now or in the future?

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Roger was way more interesting as a troll.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:03 (twenty-one years ago)

any agenda.

-- A Nairn (moreta...), November 3rd, 2004.

i don't think i've ever wanted to kill another ilx poster, but i'll be damned if that day hasn't come! someone get me a card or a fruit basket or something (with poison or weapons) plz!

fuck you, troll.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:04 (twenty-one years ago)

What I think is going on, is that the world has many problems and many of you people have convinced yourself that Bush is responsible and Kerry would prevent all of that, but in Reality the world has problems no matter who the president is.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I liked it better when everyone was so careful to say there weren't flaming me :(

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Bush IS responsible.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:06 (twenty-one years ago)

YEAH, LIKE BUSH HAS MADE THINGS BETTER.

x-x-post

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:07 (twenty-one years ago)

He's the one who started all the wars. He's the one who told stacks of lies to justify it. He's the one who's hell bent on fucking over the environment. He's the one who thinks gay people are spawn of satan or what fucking ever. Of course he's fucking responsible.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:07 (twenty-one years ago)

For everything?

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:07 (twenty-one years ago)

What I think is really going on is that you have not given a specific reason to vote for Bush, and you are dodging the question because you are ill-informed. You claim he's going to accomplish this agenda. What is the agenda of which you speak? What makes you think Kerry would not have an agenda?

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree I may totally be a moron or a troll, but at least I have a different point-of-view available to look at things with.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Kerry may not have prevented all that, but being not Bush was enough reason to vote for him.

Hurting: Every single Australian I know who voted Liberal [the Aus equivalent of Republican] couldn't provide a sound reason for doing so. Looks like it's the same with Bush voters.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:09 (twenty-one years ago)

You're building a strawman (BUSH CAUSED ALL THE PROBLEMS KERRY WILL SOLVE THEM) and beating it up. Fuck off, troll.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree I may totally be a moron or a troll, but at least I have a different point-of-view available to look at things with.
-- A Nairn (moreta...), November 3rd, 2004 1:09 AM.


We are in the midst of a performance artist. There is no other explanation.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Figured this would be a good time to ask - any Americans want a Canadian passport? Had it with the weather/gas prices/ludicrous fucking distances between everywhere/limited fun opportunities due to population of 37, but some of you might like it up here fine! Straight trade or large amount of cash!

― dave q, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:10 (twenty-one years ago)

What if 50-100 years to now, we all look back and realize that Bush started some great (temporaryily devistating) progress in the middle east. I can't see the future.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm from the north of Colombia, which is deep in the south, and I can't fix anything.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:10 (twenty-one years ago)

You damned overturner of stereotypes, Remy. ACCEPT THE ROLE THAT YOU ARE GIVEN.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:11 (twenty-one years ago)

What if 50-100 years to now, we all look back and realize that Bush started some great (temporaryily devistating) progress in the middle east. I can't see the future.

Well his dad started some great (temporaryily devistating) progress in the USSR, and look how well off it is now! Some of them can even afford bread.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry. I make a mean mole, though. xpost And I will move my comments to another thread.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:12 (twenty-one years ago)

A Nairn is like the evil-bizarro world Momus.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I really shouldn't be instigating so much are a night where many of your are disheartened by the election results, but as I said above I like things more interesting.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:13 (twenty-one years ago)

this thread is a virtual watering hole for straw men, paper tigers, cybertrolls, and other beasts of dubious veracity.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:14 (twenty-one years ago)

The thing is I'm really not an evil-bizarro world Momus, but I am open to be one.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:14 (twenty-one years ago)

du

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:15 (twenty-one years ago)

be

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:15 (twenty-one years ago)

ious

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:15 (twenty-one years ago)

You have to face them sooner or later
These tigers made of paper
Don't pay now
You have to pay later
Confront your tigers made of paper

Hm, some Chameleons will sound good at work tomorrow, actually. I shall bring some along.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:15 (twenty-one years ago)

A Nairn, when 'interesting' entails war and death, that's just a little bit tasteless, don't you think?

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:15 (twenty-one years ago)

"What if 50-100 years to now, we all look back and realize that Bush started some great (temporaryily devistating) progress in the middle east. "

Believe it or not, I've considered this possibility, and I felt the evidence against it was strong enough to take the risk of voting for Kerry. I can't see the future either though.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:15 (twenty-one years ago)

"when 'interesting' entails war and death, that's just a little bit tasteless, don't you think?"

Yes, but I think the 'uninteresting' often has equal amounts of death.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:17 (twenty-one years ago)

A Nairn's statement could just as easily be made to apply to al-Qaeda as the Bush Administration. As with his humility platitude, it means nothing. "Maybe, a hundred thousand years from now, that global thermo-nuclear armageddon was a good thing!"

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:18 (twenty-one years ago)

dave q, let's talk about your canada offer tomorrow. can you harbor a family of four humans (and four cats)?

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:18 (twenty-one years ago)

more than anything else now, i am very sad. i am sad for what i see is the fate of our country, what may be the fate of the world, and (of course) my own fate. i really cannot see how john kerry could have done a better job on the stump than he did. it is apparent that a slight majority of this country just cannot be reached by reason. if that makes me sound smug, elitist, defeatist, whatever, so be it. so be it, if this is how it must be.

we cannot give up now. but i can't pretend that this doesn't hurt.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:19 (twenty-one years ago)

if he'd picked richardson over edwards he mighta had a bit of a boost midwesternly.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:19 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.genesbmx.com/trolls.jpg


(wait i'm a troll!)

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:20 (twenty-one years ago)

but a lovable, Bush-hating troll

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:21 (twenty-one years ago)

That wouldn't have done shit, Jeremy; NM has no bearing on the Midwest. The main problem with John Kerry is that he (and I cannot believe I'm saying this) allowed himself to be positioned as "not as warm and fuzzy as we want him to be" instead of "I'm not sitting down to have a beer with you fuckers, I want to fix the god damned mess in which you all know the country to be".

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I just hold the opinion that often what appears to be much worse on the surface could really not be as bad as it looks in the long run, and if someone is bold enough to try the worse route I'm willing to watch and see how it unfolds (probably much longer than most people would)

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Schadenfreude.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:22 (twenty-one years ago)

and that does not at all mean I am not horribly dissapointed in many deaths occuring. I am

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I bet chicks love to sit on that troll's face.

(xpost) And maybe he couldn't've affected things dramatically in a single state, but I sincerely believe Richardson could've put a significant dent in the conservative latino/chicano constituency nationwide.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:24 (twenty-one years ago)

But you still find it 'interesting'?

xpost

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:24 (twenty-one years ago)

the worse route might not be so bad?

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you have any kind of evidence to support your conclusions (ultimately 'not as bad as it looks'), A Nairn?

How do you decide which actions are acceptable and which actions are not? Or are all actions acceptable, based solely on strength? Were Stalin's purges just daring moves? Would it be better to invade North Korea over Iraq, since it's a much bolder, more daring move, so many more pretty deaths to watch?

It's almost sociopathic.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:25 (twenty-one years ago)

interesting in that things could change as a result.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:26 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.1stoppostershop.com/products/Impact/Wildlife/im_RedPanda.jpg

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Change? How?

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:26 (twenty-one years ago)

JEREMY SOME GIRL SAT ON MY FACE THIS WEEKEND

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:27 (twenty-one years ago)

"the worse route might not be so bad?"

for example on a much smaller scale:
pain from working-out results in stronger muscles

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:28 (twenty-one years ago)

no, i see what nairn is saying. this is indeed interesting in the same way watching yourself get disemboweled would be. it sucks - but wow look at that.

― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:28 (twenty-one years ago)

If you put 'sat on my face' into google image search, Martha Stewart pops up.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:28 (twenty-one years ago)

You have to face them sooner or later
These tigers made of paper
Don't pay now
You have to pay later
Confront your tigers made of paper

This reminds me of a poem (well, one of a series of 5 each about a different director)

I shall read it to you now.

(ahem)


Godard

- and the walls were very white, the girl
being interrogated was speaking slowly
but her words were lost in the gunbursts
coming up over the street -

slumped in the cafe, featureless brown roo,
with a radio blaring, one window
opening on a filthy garden
with a sort of chickenrun -
whether he was only drunk, or dead -

'the audience has no means of knowing
and that's it' / in the skyscraper lift
at the nineteenth floor

'All right, 20 thousand
cheap at the price'

- no the interrogation was long before.
She went into the country -
the junction not
'like' a spider's web
keeps catching trains -
the bridges he'd been over -
really a blank sky

ALL REACTIONARIES ARE PAPER TIGERS

- she'd come to the bridge without knowing it
but it was already too late, they had their dogs,
easy even without searchlights -

BUT THEY ARE ALSO REAL TIGERS
WHO HAVE DEVOURED MILLIONS OF PEOPLE

'It isn't cinema at all
without a flow of images
Godard's destroying the cinema'

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND THEY ARE PAPER TIGERS
BECAUSE NOW THE PEOPLE HAVE POWER

and the coupe slid over
in a cool cliche into the sea

Edwin Morgan

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:29 (twenty-one years ago)

do you have any muscles, a nairn?

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Um, hey guys, I'm as peeved as the rest of you, but jesus if ILX is to be known as an OPEN forum without an enforced THOUGHT-POLICE squishing dissenting opinions we can't have flaming and "troll"-labeling flying around every time a long-term poster expresses an unpopular view....and yea A Nairn IS a very long-term poster...hardly a "troll," and not nearly as aggravating re: baiting, etc as Roger can be. Chill out, for real.... let's direct our collective anger instead at FOX News...


....also because IT AIN'T OVER TIL IT'S OVER - right now FOX has, yes called Ohio for Bu$h but CNN, NBC, ABC haven't, and CNN has gone so far as to report that Iowa won't even have its final tally until the provisional/absentees come in until sometime in the afternoon WEDNESDAY.

Also, Senator Edwards just gave a short speech that every vote will be counted, indicating that the Dems are not gonna Gore-out and give in this time, thank god.

― Vic (Vic), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Pain isn't a 'worse route,' it's a necessary consequence of working out. What you're talking about - the bolder strike, the greater move - would be, say, anabolic steroids. You're gonna bulk them muscles up fast, damn the consequences.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Damn, the spacing got messed up...

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:30 (twenty-one years ago)

"Change? How?"

That is what I am waiting to see. For example one change that I thought might have happened would have been that as a result of a dislike of Bush's Americans would challange it more and in general become more interested in what's going on in the world.
Obviously this was not what was originally inteneded, but it is a nice sideeffect.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:31 (twenty-one years ago)

OTM Vic, here's what I found by putting "Follow the Drinking Gorgon" into google... it's totally NSFW. People on this thread need to stop stabbing each other quite so viciously.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:31 (twenty-one years ago)

interesting in that things could change as a result.
-- A Nairn (moreta...), November 3rd, 2004.

"CHANGE"

http://www.users.bigpond.com/kceg/artimages/wasteland.jpg

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Follow the drinking gourd!
Follow the drinking gourd.
For the old man is awaiting for to carry you to freedom
If you follow the drinking gourd.

When the sun comes back and the first quail calls,
Follow the drinking gourd,
For the old man is awaiting for to carry you to freedom
If you follow the drinking gourd.

The riverbank makes a very good road,
The dead trees will show you the way,
Left foot, peg foot traveling on,
Following the drinking gourd.

The river ends between two hills,
Follow the drinking gourd,
There's another river on the other side,
Follow the drinking gourd.

Where the great big river meets the little river,
Follow the drinking gourd,
The old man is awaiting for to carry you to freedom
If you follow the drinking gourd

http://www.nps.gov/boaf/urrmap.gif

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:32 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with Vic, I mean I don't even totally agree with my stance, I'm just mostly seeing how others react to it.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok updated...

Bush/Kerry

FOX: 269 / 238 (gave K Michigan already, yay)
CNN: 249/ 242 (gave K Hawaii)
CBS 249/ 238

Waiting on Nevada, NM, Wisconsin, Iowa and everyone but FOX, on O-hi-Ohhh too

― Vic (Vic), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Ooh, I know a very good poem about a Gourd (also by Morgan)...

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:34 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost -
Yeah, that's what trolling is.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Predictions?

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:34 (twenty-one years ago)

well obviously, troll.
xxx-post

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Milo, do you mean me?

― Kevin Gilchrist (Mr Fusion), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:35 (twenty-one years ago)

but I am like that in person, and in general I've been like that for the last 3-4 years I've posted here. That's the best feedback I've gotten from here.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"That's the best feedback I've gotten from here."

the reactions of people, that is.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry, Kevin no. I should have quoted, I was referring to A Nairn's last post.
'I don't even totally agree with my stance, I'm just mostly seeing how others react to it.'

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:38 (twenty-one years ago)

do you mean "forgotten"?

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:38 (twenty-one years ago)

My advice is the same as Trayce. The world is a lot bigger than one person, and becoming all depressed about that person warrents oneselve's need to take a chillpill.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:40 (twenty-one years ago)

(I'm just staying awake to see if pot will be leagal in Alaska)

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:41 (twenty-one years ago)

one person?

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Once again a close race -- Bush will barely even have a mandate if he wins, and yet conservatives will act like it was only a bunch of liberal wackos who supported Kerry.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:42 (twenty-one years ago)

"one person?"

ok, one problem

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:43 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, one network of many problems

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:43 (twenty-one years ago)

fox?

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:44 (twenty-one years ago)

One person is enough.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:45 (twenty-one years ago)

No matter what the results of tonights election are, you can still listen to the Chameleons in the morning

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:45 (twenty-one years ago)

IF THERE IS A MORNING.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:47 (twenty-one years ago)

No matter what the results of tonights election are, you can still listen to the Chameleons in the morning
but some soldiers and a few dozen Iraqis won't be able to. Therein the problem with your 'view'

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:49 (twenty-one years ago)

''view''

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Boston, MA – Kerry-Edwards campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill released the following statement:

“The vote count in Ohio has not been completed. There are more than 250,000 remaining votes to be counted. We believe when they are, John Kerry will win Ohio.”

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:50 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not really his belief, so I don't know what to call it. His hypothesis, I suppose.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:51 (twenty-one years ago)

ahh, gotcha.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:51 (twenty-one years ago)

bush is ahead in all but one of the counties still to call (in ohio)

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 07:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Once again a close race -- Bush will barely even have a mandate if he wins, and yet conservatives will act like it was only a bunch of liberal wackos who supported Kerry.

well, they could show that map that shows, that off the coasts, nearly all the states are republican? thats quite a powerful image. it also means that people do that condescending "hicks in the flyover states" schtick, which doesnt help the deomcrat cause any?

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:01 (twenty-one years ago)

How many Iraqi would Saddam have killed in the same time? And how many other leaders would ignore the UN resulting in dead people.

There numbers may not be at equallibrium yet, but In the future it may be.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:01 (twenty-one years ago)

How many Iraqi would Saddam have killed in the same time?

Why is that Bush's business?

And how many people has Kim Jong-Il killed in that time?

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:03 (twenty-one years ago)

GENOCIDE IN AFRICA WHAT ABOUT THAT HUH

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:04 (twenty-one years ago)

You people cannot tell me you would be happy with Bush proceeding to follow down a list of places where deaths could be prevented and do something about it.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:06 (twenty-one years ago)

He doesn't. He finds oil and steals the countries, and makes up excuses.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:06 (twenty-one years ago)

at least he could support the U.N. in trying to alleviate these situations, no?

x-post

― todd swiss (eliti), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:07 (twenty-one years ago)

And ignores 90% of the countries that equally require intervention.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Because they don't have oil.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:08 (twenty-one years ago)

That sounds like an excuse being made up to disagree with Bush.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:08 (twenty-one years ago)

You people cannot tell me you would be happy with Bush proceeding to follow down a list of places where deaths could be prevented and do something about it

well, im not a "you people", more of a person really, and i cant speak for anyone else. but, yes, i would be less than happy with that scenario. i would prefer if bush didnt draw up any lists, didnt go anywhere, and didnt start any unilateral laws, and didnt act unilaterally as a selfappointed global policeman.

in fact, if he avoided all these things, not only would i find that good, i would also find it 'interesting'

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

oops, unilateral wars, i mean, not laws!

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:10 (twenty-one years ago)

That sounds like an excuse being made up to disagree with Bush.

I beg your fucking pardon?

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Once again a close race -- Bush will barely even have a mandate if he wins, and yet conservatives will act like it was only a bunch of liberal wackos who supported Kerry.

I dunno, Bush won the popular vote by something between 3 and 4 million ... in this day and age that's not really that close.

― charles, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:12 (twenty-one years ago)

claiming his motives are mostly oil and stealing it.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:12 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost)

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:12 (twenty-one years ago)

i agree, the outcome is clear, but, there is a difference between neck and neck, and 'only liberal wackos'. unless we are to characterize 48% of the country as liberal wackos. which, you may want to do, but i would argue that, in that case, the word 'only' shuold probably be jettisoned

― *@*.* (gareth), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:14 (twenty-one years ago)

kiss roe vs wade goodbye

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:15 (twenty-one years ago)

claiming his motives are mostly oil and stealing it.

You'd know that's the case if you'd paid attention at any time in the past three years.

Or, you're just trolling. Considering how utterly stupid your assertion is, I can only assume the latter.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm definitely not pro-bush, but likewise I am not anti-Bush. I've just been disappointed in how many people I've seen being such blindly anti-Bush. There are many good reasons to not like him, but using weak ones and fake ones ruins the whole point of taking that position. I'm betting many people who voted for Bush this time around were probably just reacting to seeing many 'intelligent' people blindly hating Bush and giving him zero poitive evaluation. Which everyone knows is impossible that someone could be that bad, so therefore the people preaching that most be flawed somewhere.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:19 (twenty-one years ago)

There are many good reasons to not like him, but using weak ones and fake ones ruins the whole point of taking that position.

Good job we're not doing that then.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:20 (twenty-one years ago)

go to bed TROLL xpost

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:20 (twenty-one years ago)

claiming his motives are for greedily taking oil and there was no consideration of any good benefits that could result, I think is weak.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:21 (twenty-one years ago)

True. Not weak. True.

Stop trolling.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

the good benefits:

oil

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:22 (twenty-one years ago)

and the more those people are adamantly following that, makes Bush supports react even more. That was mostly what lost the election.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

You can't possibly be that thick, so troll.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:24 (twenty-one years ago)

what lost the election was votes

― LE CHUCK!™ (ex machina), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Is it a good benefit to get a mass murderer out of Office? yes

maybe in the future, the people that think so much about things could consider thinking about other things as well.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:25 (twenty-one years ago)

don't feel so bad, maybe Kerry will win in the morning (or next week) but if not maybe Obama next time, or maybe Bush will see how close the election was and change some of his approach to speak to the half that didn't vote for him.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

But Bush can't do three terms.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

fat chance.. bush willfully ignored the other half the last term. i doubt he'll be different this time.

― twiki's ho and dr. theo slapping ass, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:28 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe Bush will see how close the election was and change some of his approach to speak to the half that didn't vote for him.

are you fucking kidding me?

― amateur!!st, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:29 (twenty-one years ago)

GEORGE W. bush can't do three terms. As for other bushes...

― twiki's ho and dr. theo slapping ass, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:29 (twenty-one years ago)

NO MORE BUSH.

Even the band is a bit substandard for mine.

― Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:32 (twenty-one years ago)

*The Supreme Court is now officially fucked for the next 30+ years.

*Womens rights, reproductive and otherwise, and minority rights will be set back 50 years.

*No embryonic stem cell research for at least the next 4 years, probably more ... so much for cures for diabetes, parkinsons, alzheimers, etc.

*Separation of church & state likely weakened further ... a nice little gift for the evangelicals that handed Bush this election.

*Alaska wildlife refuge to be opened for oil drilling...

*At least 4 more years' ignorance of global warming and other environmental calamities in the making...

*And, of course, the rape of other countries for their oil and other actions that benefit the big corporations that helped Bush get elected, at the expense of the lives of our soldiers, will continue unabated ...

And, best of all, the whole world knows that we blew our best chance to fucking take this country back and change things for the better. So now, when terrorists hit us with another 9/11-style attack (which is almost certainly coming, and Bush ain't gonna protect us), show me one country that is going to feel sorry for us. They will all laugh at our downfall, knowing that we brought it on ourselves, and I don't blame them anymore. This country has been hijacked by fucktards.

― charles, Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:43 (twenty-one years ago)

"And, best of all, the whole world knows that we blew our best chance to fucking take this country back and change things for the better."

Yes.

In the UK I'm listening to the Today (news/commentary) programme on BBC Radio 4, and the tone of the presenter (James Naughtie) is a mix of weary incredulity and (it seems to me) real sadness.

― Snnap Dragon (snnap dragon), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Nevada just closed

― papa november (papa november), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Michael Berube earlier tonight:

Bunning. DeMint. Coburn. Martinez. Burr.

Every one of them batshit insane. Every one of them a United States Senator, as of 10:40 Eastern tonight.

No, folks, I’m not despairing. The country is, and will always be, worth fighting for. I’m not saying 'everything sucks, so why bother' (as Mike suggested in a comment to the previous post). But we here in the reality-based community are constrained by empirical results, and we know now that we will have to deal with a Senate chock full of lunatics who spend 30 percent of their waking hours trying to figure out how to bring Christ to earth and the other 70 percent fantasizing about (and then, with a fervor commensurate with the intensity of the fantasy, decrying) man-on-dog sex. Well, except for Bunning, who spends 40 percent of his waking hours trying to figure out what day it is.

It is still unclear what the executive branch will look like. But I don’t see any landslide coming. . . .

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:58 (twenty-one years ago)

(That last part was s'posed to be ital, too.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 3 November 2004 08:59 (twenty-one years ago)


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