― lysander spooner, Thursday, 4 November 2004 19:50 (twenty years ago)
― Incunabula, Thursday, 4 November 2004 19:53 (twenty years ago)
And of course there's this:http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=392&row=0
― adam... (nordicskilla), Thursday, 4 November 2004 19:53 (twenty years ago)
― lysander spooner, Thursday, 4 November 2004 20:28 (twenty years ago)
― chuck, Thursday, 4 November 2004 23:19 (twenty years ago)
This lends some credence to another conspiracy theory - that the Dems hoped to lose all along. A little short term pain for long-term gain, in that the Repubs own the White House and Congress, so they will be completely culpable in the event something horrible goes down (Iraq calamity, economic calamity, another terrorist attack, etc.). And then the Dems will make bigger gains in '08.
― i know, Thursday, 4 November 2004 23:27 (twenty years ago)
― Michael White (Hereward), Thursday, 4 November 2004 23:29 (twenty years ago)
― k3rry (dymaxia), Thursday, 4 November 2004 23:37 (twenty years ago)
― i know, Thursday, 4 November 2004 23:39 (twenty years ago)
Over the next four years, we should insist that all voting machines produce a hard-copy record. Venezuela manages to have electronic voting machines that also produce a paper trail. Why can't we do that in the U.S.? Why the fuck shouldn't we be paranoid about it when people in power fight against that sort of accountability?
I'm not saying I believe that the vote was stolen. I'm saying I think Mahajan is right: there's no way to be certain about it.
― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Thursday, 4 November 2004 23:46 (twenty years ago)
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said.Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.Bush actually received 365 votes in the precinct, Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, told The Columbus Dispatch.State and county election officials did not immediately respond to requests by The Associated Press for more details about the voting system and its vendor, and whether the error, if repeated elsewhere in Ohio, could have affected the outcome.
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said.
Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.
Bush actually received 365 votes in the precinct, Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, told The Columbus Dispatch.
State and county election officials did not immediately respond to requests by The Associated Press for more details about the voting system and its vendor, and whether the error, if repeated elsewhere in Ohio, could have affected the outcome.
― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 5 November 2004 23:26 (twenty years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 5 November 2004 23:32 (twenty years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 5 November 2004 23:34 (twenty years ago)
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 6 November 2004 00:02 (twenty years ago)
― still bevens (bscrubbins), Saturday, 6 November 2004 00:57 (twenty years ago)
― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 6 November 2004 01:02 (twenty years ago)
― (Jon L), Saturday, 6 November 2004 01:02 (twenty years ago)
― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 6 November 2004 01:03 (twenty years ago)
errmm xpost
― GWB (Thermo Thinwall), Saturday, 6 November 2004 01:04 (twenty years ago)
― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 6 November 2004 01:06 (twenty years ago)
― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Saturday, 6 November 2004 01:10 (twenty years ago)
http://www.boulderweekly.com/coverstory.html
― lysander spooner, Monday, 8 November 2004 15:10 (twenty years ago)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._Election_controversies_and_irregularities
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:36 (twenty years ago)
― Spinning Down Alone You Spin Alive (ex machina), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:43 (twenty years ago)
― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:45 (twenty years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:47 (twenty years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:48 (twenty years ago)
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:49 (twenty years ago)
― Spinning Down Alone You Spin Alive (ex machina), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:49 (twenty years ago)
― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:50 (twenty years ago)
― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:50 (twenty years ago)
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:50 (twenty years ago)
(okay, I'm not being serious, but still, if this is how the GOP plays it then Dan Perry '08 needs to employ some pretty hard-nosed, smart safe-cracker types to make the cheating even)
― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:52 (twenty years ago)
-- Dan Selzer (danselze...) (webmail), November 2nd, 2004 1:09 PM. (Dan Selzer) (later) (link)
― Spinning Down Alone You Spin Alive (ex machina), Monday, 8 November 2004 17:55 (twenty years ago)
― Graeme (Graeme), Monday, 8 November 2004 18:00 (twenty years ago)
Listening to NPR discuss voter fraud before the election(sunday) and they discussed all the bullshit, the flyers and phone calls associating kerry w/ gay marriage, the notes telling african-americans to vote on wednesdays, and much more serious issues with messed up voter registrations...republican groups registerting as non-partisan, walking up to people, asking who they prefer, if they said Kerry they'd say "ok, I'll mark that down in my poll, thank you" and if they said Bush they'd promptly register them. One employee did take registration forms from democrats only to have his boss tear them up in front of him and say "we're not paying you to register democrats." He was sueing but his case got put on hold, till after the office, care of some bullshit government intervention. NPR then went on to mention exactly 2 cases of fraud that would've leaned Democratic, one where people were paid for each registration card, so they just made up names like Mary Poppins, which of course means an extra registration card, Mary Poppins can't vote! (I know, she can fly...) The other case was the one where someone was trading crack for registrations. Mr. NPR then more or less said:
You are going to hear about these two instances over and over again from the Republicans, because these are the ONLY TWO CASES that have come up, while we don't even have time during this show to cover everything fraudulent being commited for Bush
The case I mentioned first, the so-called "non-partisan" registration, was from a guy who used to be high up in the Republicans, and I've been trying to google to find the story but can't remember his name. Spewel, or Spoil or something. Anybody know what I'm talking about?
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Monday, 8 November 2004 19:03 (twenty years ago)
that should read till after the election
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Monday, 8 November 2004 19:06 (twenty years ago)
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 8 November 2004 19:11 (twenty years ago)
― peepee (peepee), Monday, 8 November 2004 19:11 (twenty years ago)
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04294/398767.stm
http://www.alternet.org/election04/20194/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/13/32821/029
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/1026montini26.html
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Monday, 8 November 2004 19:19 (twenty years ago)
― Spinning Down Alone You Spin Alive (ex machina), Monday, 8 November 2004 20:22 (twenty years ago)
― peepee (peepee), Monday, 8 November 2004 20:33 (twenty years ago)
I don't want this thread to go away like I don't want these stories to go away. I'd like to think if there was systematic fraud with the op-scan machines (the ones reporting Bush votes several hundred percent in excess of registered Republicans in certain Florida counties) some whistleblower would emerge.
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 11:42 (twenty years ago)
― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 11:49 (twenty years ago)
― stevie (stevie), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 12:01 (twenty years ago)
Ho, wait - that's illegal!
― k3rry (dymaxia), Tuesday, 9 November 2004 12:26 (twenty years ago)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240
― peepee (peepee), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 01:22 (twenty years ago)
District Reg Voters Votes Difference % TurnoutWOODMERE VIL 558 8,854 -8,296 1586.74%HIGHLAND HILLS VIL 760 8,822 -8,062 1160.79%OAKWOOD VIL 2, 746 7,099 -4,353 258.52%CUYAHOGA HE V 570 1,382 -812 242.46%ORANGE CSD 11,640 22,931 -11,291 197.00%VALLEY VIEW VIL 1,787 3,409 -1,622 190.77%SOLN WD6 2,292 4,300 -2,008 187.61%BEDFORD HEIGHTS 8,142 13,512 -5,370 165.95%BROOKLYN HEIS V 1,144 1,869 -725 163.37%STRG WD3 7,806 12,108 -4,302 155.11%BEDFORD 9,942 14,465 -4,523 145.49%
All told - 30 Districts with more VOTES than VotersAll told - 48 Districts with more than 80% turnout"
Can anyone out there verify this information?
― peepee (peepee), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 01:28 (twenty years ago)
http://www.alternet.org/election04/20458/
http://www.alternet.org/election04/20451/
― lysander spooner, Wednesday, 10 November 2004 14:45 (twenty years ago)
― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 17:33 (twenty years ago)
― peepee (peepee), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 19:13 (twenty years ago)
>> >>> > FYI. From a Democracy for America leader in Baltimore about major>> > voting problems in OH.>> >>> > Spread the word.>> >>> > UUUGGGHHH.>> >>> > Hi all>> > First, I want to thank everyone for everything that you did to try to>> > secure a victory for John Kerry and for democracy in this election. I>> know that>> > all of you gave whatever time, money, and effort you were able to, and >> > I>> > thank you from the bottom of my heart for participating in the greatest>> > grassroots effort in history. We registered voters, delivered> literature,>> > talked face-to-face to voters, and talked to them on the phone. We>> > walked and talked out hearts out and demonstrated our belief in our>> > country and the principles upon which it was founded.>> >>> > Unfortunately, the main thing that is clear to me after working in Ohio>> for>> > the four days preceding the election is that we must now fight with the>> > same commitment and passion to fix the complete shambles that is>> > our voting system. It is a voting system that is so broken, in so many>> > ways, as to be ineffectual, inaccurate, and subject to extreme doubt >> > and>> > skepticism. Please pass this information on to all of your contacts. >> > The>> > citizens of our country deserve to know what really happened.>> >>> > In Ohio, it was clear that vote changing, voter suppression, voter>> > intimidation, and inadequate numbers of voting machines in poor,>> > minority, and student population voting precincts had a lot more to do>> > with the results of this election than anything legitimate. Voting>> > machine "malfunctions" including switched votes, unrecorded>> > presidential votes, and crashed machines were numerous in these>> > same voting precincts.>> >>> > Here is what I can personally attest to:>> >>> > RNC "workers" were in our hotel. They were not there to do literature>> > drops, canvas, or to make sure that people knew where their polling>> > places were, as we were. One of them tried to infiltrate one of our> hotel>> > rooms (I removed him) to gather information on our activities. He and>> > another RNC lawyer followed some of the canvassers the next day to>> > try to intimidate them, telling them that they were "putting them on>> > notice, that what they were doing was breaking federal law" (among>> > other more vile things). What the canvassers were doing was>> > distributing ACT literature. These "people" were there to go inside the>> > polls to challenge Democratic voters to intimidate them and suppress>> > the Democratic vote.>> >>> > After the polls closed, I talked to an Election Protection project> worker>> > who told me of the polling place in Youngstown where he worked that>> > day. It had only three electronic touch screen voting machines. The>> > lines were extremely (at the very least 3 to 4 hours) long. People were>> > leaving and coming back multiple times trying to vote. Some were>> > complaining that they had to work and could not miss the time from>> > work or they would lose money that they could not afford to lose, or>> > worse, lose their jobs. Youngstown is a very depressed,>> > high-unemployment city.>> >>> > He told me that the machines were flickering and bouncing around on>> > the right hand side of the machine for at least half the day. He had>> > multiple reports of people trying to vote for Kerry and it being> recorded>> > as Bush. The EP workers tried to get to everyone as they were going>> > into the polling place to tell them that if they changed their vote> three>> > times, the ballot would be spoiled. They told them to get an election>> > judge. Many did not get the message and/or they just could not wait>> > around any longer. After all, there were only two other machines to go> to>> > if their machine would not record the vote properly. Finally, at around>> > midday the voting machine company technicians came and>> > "recalibrated" the machines. The flickering stopped. The vote changing>> > did not.>> >>> > Below are the findings from another Election Protection project lawyer>> > who came on our bus. We were in Mahoning and Trumbull counties.>> > These are heavily Democratic counties, which we did win by large>> > margins, but it looks like we should have won them by far more from all>> > of these reports.>> >>> > 1. Too few polling machines, particularly for rush-hour voting,>> poorer>> > areas/large numbers of people. (3 to 4 hours at the very least, some>> > waited up to 8 and 9 hours)>> >>> > 2. Numerous calls reported, "There are not enough machines. We>> > need more people.">> >>> > 3. Machines were breaking down. One polling location had only two>> > machines for very large group. (9 calls)>> >>> > 4. There were many reports throughout the day of non-functioning>> > machines. Many people were getting frantic. Others were leaving. Many>> > were demanding that paper ballots be sent. This Election Protection>> > project lawyer and the others at her calling center tried to call ES&S> to>> > tell them that machines were malfunctioning. The Board of Elections>> > said the machines had calibration problems and someone would>> > come out. The Board of Elections was inundated with calls about the>> > machines malfunctioning.>> >>> > 5. There were numerous reports of voters trying to select Kerry >> > and>> > Bush was selected on the screen instead. The voters would try>> > repeatedly to get Kerry to come up. Voters were only allowed three>> > "pushes." They were told they could request a different machine, but of>> > course by the time they were on the phone with the Election Protection>> > project workers, it must have been too late.>> >>> > 6. There were also reports of voters getting to the review screen> and>> > seeing "No Selection." For president. This was often at the same>> > polling places where machines were breaking down. Voters could not>> > get their vote for Kerry for president to register.>> >>> > 7. Numerous reports of "Presidential choice not selected." Ballot>> > would not register "Kerry".>> >>> > 8. There were also reports of many Republican challengers at>> > polling locations and no Democratic challengers. This Election>> > Protection project lawyer had at least one voter who was told by a>> > Republican challenger that she was not on the list at her polling >> > place.>> > When she called the Board of Elections office they told her that she>> > was indeed a registered voter in the proper precinct. An Election>> > Protection project person had to make calls to ensure that the voter>> > could vote. How many other voters allowed themselves to be turned>> > away by the GOP challengers?>> >>> > 9. Another GOP challenger asked a voter for a Green Card in order> to>> > get a provisional ballot. The voter called in to find out what a Green>> > Card is. Of course this was a trick. Voters must be citizens.>> >>> > 10. Machines at some polls had to be re-set after every voter. This> took>> > so long that people started to leave. This Election Protection project>> > lawyer and her colleagues sent food out to the voters. They sent food>> > out to voters at different precincts at least three times during the >> > day>> to>> > encourage them to stay in line.>> >>> > 11. Issue 1 "Defense of Marriage" was holding up line. Voters did not>> > understand what the issue, Defense of Marriage, meant. (LOL, you>> > gotta laugh at this one)>> >>> > 12. One Election Protection project lawyer bought 6 lamps and>> > extension cords after numerous reports came in of a polling place that>> > was so dark both inside and out that voters could not see to vote. It> was>> > gray and dark and raining for much of the day in northern Ohio. People>> > were waiting in line for multiple hours in the rain.>> >>> > 13. Many people in one poor, black, polling location had their water>> > turned off, if their bill was un-paid, coincidentally, on the morning >> > of>> > the>> > election. The Water Department/utility told voters to stay home to wait>> > until the matter was resolved, because the voters needed to let>> > someone into their unit. The Zell Milleresque Democratic mayor of>> > Youngstown endorsed George W. Bush. The Water Department/utility>> > company did not come. This Election Protection project worker and>> > colleagues went to the peoples' homes so some of the voters could>> > vote.>> >>> > 14. Voters cars were being ticketed. Voters felt their cars were> properly>> > parked. This was reported in both Mahoning County and Trumbull>> > County.>> >>> > 15. No provisional ballot was offered to a man who filled in/requested>> > an absentee ballot, but did not receive the absentee ballot. When he>> > arrived, he could not get a provisional ballot.>> >>> > Note: Reports are now coming out that many people in Ohio who>> > requested absentee ballots did not receive them. Some of these voters>> > who did not receive their absentee ballot were given a provisional> ballot>> > when they went to the polling place, others were not, still others had> to>> > have Election Protection project people fight to get them their>> > provisional ballots. How many walked away disenfranchised?>> >>> > Next is a report from an attorney who went to Columbus, Ohio to>> > monitor the election. What he describes shows how widespread and>> > organized the Republicans' deception was:>> >>> > I worked for 3 days, including Election Day, on the statewide voter>> > protection hotline run by the Ohio Democratic Party in Columbus, Ohio.>> >>> > I am writing this because the media is inexplicably whitewashing what>> > happened in Ohio, and Kerry's concession was likewise inexplicable.>> >>> > Hundreds of thousands of people were disenfranchised in Ohio.>> > People waited on line for as long as 10 hours. It appears to have only>> > happened in Democratic-leaning precincts, principally:>> >>> > (a) precincts where many African Americans lived, and>> >>> > (b) precincts near colleges.>> >>> > I spoke to a young man who got on line at 11:30 AM and voted at 7 PM.>> > When he left at 7 PM, the line was about 150 voters longer than when>> > he'd arrived, which meant those people were going to wait even longer.>> > In fact they waited for as much as 10 hours, and their voting was>> > concluded at about 3 AM. The reason this occurred was that they had 1>> > voting station per 1000 voters, while the adjacent precinct had 1 >> > voting>> > station per 184. Both precincts were within the same county, and>> > managed by the same county board of elections. The difference>> > between them is that the privileged polling place was in a rural,> solidly>> > republican, area, while the one with long lines was in the college town>> > of Gambier, OH.>> >>> > Lines of 4 and 5 hours were the order of the day in many>> > African-American neighborhoods.>> >>> > Touch screen voting machines in Youngstown OH were registering>> > "George W. Bush" when people pressed "John F. Kerry" ALL DAY>> > LONG. This was reported immediately after the polls opened, and>> > reported over and over again throughout the day, and yet the bogus>> > machines were inexplicably kept in use THROUGHOUT THE DAY.>> >>> > Countless other frauds occurred, such as postcards advising people of>> > incorrect polling places, registered Democrats not receiving absentee>> > ballots, duly registered young voters being forced to file provisional>> > ballots even though their names and signatures appeared in the voting>> > rolls, longtime active voting registered voters being told they weren't>> > registered, bad faith challenges by Republican "challengers" in>> > Democratic precincts, and on and on and on.>> >>> > I was very proud of the way so many Ohioans fought so valiantly for>> > their right to vote, and would not be turned away. Many, however, could>> > not spend the entire day and were afraid of losing their jobs, due to> the>> > severe economic depression hitting Ohio.>> >>> > I do not understand why Kerry conceded and did not fight to ensure that>> > all Ohioans would have a chance to vote, and for their vote to be>> > counted.>> >>> > Ray>> >>> > Ray Beckerman>> > Beldock Levine & Hoffman LLP>> > 99 Park Ave (Ste 1600)>> > New York, NY 10016>> > NOTE FROM Jackson Thoreau who sent this out over the PStreet>> > yahoo group:>> >>> > There are many, many similar reports of fraud committed by>> > Republicans throughout the country. The exit polls showing a Kerry>> > victory were RIGHT! The election WAS stolen AGAIN! The question is:>> > What are we going to do about it this time? For one, we have to keep>> > seeking the truth on this election and exposing the Republicans' dirty>> > deeds. We can't continue to let them get away with this. The only way>> > this will stop is if we expose their dirty deeds to the light of day.>> > --Jackson>> >>> > Here are some Web sites for you to check out with more information:>> >>> > http://www.globalresearch.ca/>> >>> > http://www.blackboxvoting.org/#breaking>> >>> > http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1106-30.htm>> >>> > http://www.vindy.com/basic/news/281829446390855.php>> >>> > I believe it is time to have a LARGE meeting to discuss what can be>> > done about this situation. In Baltimore, Kristina Heatherman is>> > spearheading efforts to get this meeting set up for this Wednesday>> > evening. I hope that those of you in Montgomery County and DC will do>> > likewise. If you would like to attend a meeting this week in Baltimore> to>> > discuss these and other problems that have been uncovered in Ohio>> > and other states, please contact Kristina at: Kristinaheather@aol.com>> >>> > At the very least, let's get this information into the mainstream >> > press.>> If>> > we scream loud enough maybe we can at least start to get our>> > democracy back!>> >>> > Warm Regards,>> >>> > Robin>> >>> >
― elrod hendrix, Wednesday, 10 November 2004 19:15 (twenty years ago)
― peepee (peepee), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 19:45 (twenty years ago)
― dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 19:55 (twenty years ago)
For some reason the Orwell line about a boot stamping on a human face forever (or for four years) popped into my head.
We've got until the electoral college convenes next month for someone to gather this all together and file a legal challenge (in what form I've no idea). With the Fallujah offensive going on I don't suppose the news networks think this is a story worth pursuing for a number of reasons.
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 20:02 (twenty years ago)
Americans hate it when machines they've paid for don't work, and voting machines are not going to be an exception to that - those totals are proving to be unacceptable to the centre ground in Ohio, never mind it being a partisan issue. These stories will, I hope, lead to a public outcry that is both bipartisan and loud. Freepers who hack abuse into communal research sites like Wikipedia should be prosecuted for obstructing the course of justice, just like anyone else who helped to throw the election (I don't see this as any different to destroying the case notes of your opposition and neither should the law, but there may well be bigger fish to fry). They'll probably respond with the Dems being at it too but that's just what bullies do when cornered - claim victim status. It won't wash.
Kerry is a very clever man who either through disposition or bitter experience has learned there is value in not showing one's hand too soon. He doesn't want to do their thinking for them (probably got sick of that shit at Yale). Please remember that Kerry discovered Iran-Contra *and* was the catalyst for shutting down BCCI. He has been a prominent arsepain to the Republicans since Nixon bitched about him on the Watergate tapes. He is a bloodhound about this kind of complicated legal mess, and knew before all of us the whys and wherefores of how much this cabal hates him. He *is* their WORST NIGHTMARE.
BTW there is a brilliant delineation on Kos about how Osama plays GWB, go see.
― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 21:26 (twenty years ago)
― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 21:29 (twenty years ago)
― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 22:32 (twenty years ago)
― Kenan (kenan), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 22:36 (twenty years ago)
It basically delineates what's in it for OBL to have an easily goaded chimp in office.
― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 22:52 (twenty years ago)
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:00 (twenty years ago)
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 10 November 2004 23:14 (twenty years ago)
― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 11 November 2004 00:33 (twenty years ago)
I think it would be very, very easy to drive a wedge between military-industrial complex Republicans and Christian-identifying Republicans. Just convince the Christians that their lack of 'worldliness' is a disadvantage when dealing with oligarchs, who are merely being friendly for expedience and profit. There is a strain of aggressive evangelist that doesn't believe they are working hard enough for Christ unless they can see they are being persecuted or shunned by the reality-based community endlessly. The rest of the Republicans are 'we hate gummint' Republicans (my mom's demographic) and just want what they perceive to be an easy life.
Is it me or has Bush seemed even more addle-pated and stammery than usual lately? He just won an election, right, so he really shouldn't look like a bunny in headlights.
Dan, Kerry's concession speech definitely set the stage for unity of purpose in making sure the election process we pay for is not profiting partisan private interests. It's odd that so many people are still depressed about this when Kerry himself has managed to whack a suit on and hit Capitol Hill. Man is not pulling an Al Gore.
― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 11 November 2004 01:03 (twenty years ago)
― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 11 November 2004 01:09 (twenty years ago)
I think he used to know a lot more than he does now, hence the extreme vacancy displayed in public appearances. I really can't call them press conferences.
― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 11 November 2004 01:19 (twenty years ago)
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Thursday, 11 November 2004 01:21 (twenty years ago)
― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 11 November 2004 01:22 (twenty years ago)
He...he had an online life?
I nearly just gave myself whiplash thinking of the porn sites he must've subscribed to, once.
― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 11 November 2004 01:26 (twenty years ago)
― lysander spooner, Thursday, 11 November 2004 01:28 (twenty years ago)
Yes, it's true, I read it in Time or Newsweek just after Indecision 2000.
― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 11 November 2004 01:34 (twenty years ago)
"Though the Republicans won nineteen of the thirty-four Senate seats that were up for grabs last Tuesday, for a gain of four, the number of voters who cast their ballots for Republican Senate candidates was 37.9 million, while 41.3 million voted for Democrats—almost exactly Bush’s popular-vote margin over Kerry. When the new Congress convenes in January, its fifty-five Republicans will be there on account of the votes of 57.6 million people, while the forty-four Democrats and one independent will be there on account of the votes of 59.6 million people."
― lysander spooner, Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:22 (twenty years ago)
It's nice to find someone who likes Kerry, like I do.
― the bluefox, Thursday, 11 November 2004 16:47 (twenty years ago)
― morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 11 November 2004 17:05 (twenty years ago)
Is any outlet unafraid of the right-wing noise machine?
― nader (nader), Thursday, 11 November 2004 17:30 (twenty years ago)
This leaves the issue of the exit polls, their 'adjustment' by the networks as the night went on and their massive inaccuracy with respect to only 10-12 battleground states and all in the same direction. But these polls were the numbers I saw posted on the main election day thread here - an hour or two before the first set of east coast polls closed. Their veracity was questioned then but now we're (or I'm) clinging to them as the chief indicator of fraud.
The anecdotal evidence of vote suppression is massive and the routine spoiling of ballots (systematically to depress African-American and Hispanic representation if Palast is to be believed) widespread, so I'm not ready to throw in the mental towel on this. It might be healthier if I did.
― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 11 November 2004 18:02 (twenty years ago)
― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 11 November 2004 18:03 (twenty years ago)
>Here are the accounts of election tampering from four states, plus>reports on multi-state problems.>>(Please note: some of the newspaper links may expire soon. You may want>to print out the stories so that later on, you don't have to buy them>from the newspapers' archives.)>>>FLORIDA:>>The most troubling news comes out of Florida. Throughout most of the>state, new electronic voting machines were in use. These machines -->many manufactured by a company called Diebold -- are controversial>because they don't leave a paper trail.>>There is no way to double-check the results.>>The final Florida tallies on Diebold machines from Tuesday are literally>unbelievable.>>In 29 counties where Diebold machines (an optical scanner) were used to>count the ballots, large majorities of voters were registered Democrats.>But the final results gave all the counties to Bush, sometimes by huge>margins.>>The individual county data shows how unlikely the machine results were.>>For instance:>>In Calhoun County, 82% of registered voters are Democrats. But Diebold>machines said 63% of the county voted for Bush.>>In Lafayette County, 83% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 74%>of the county voted for Bush.>>In Liberty County, 88% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 64%>voted for Bush.>>In Washington County, 67% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 71%>voted for Bush.>>This same pattern appears in the results for 29 COUNTIES in Florida. In>every one of those counties, the Diebold Optical Scanner produced the>results.>>>The Optical Scanner has been called the voting machine that is most>susceptible to tampering.>>Many of you have been watching elections closely for years. Do you>believe that in 29 Florida counties in which Democrats were in the>majority -- in some cases with 4 out of 5 registered voters being>Democrats -- they all voted strongly for Bush?>>Here are the links.>>You can find the voter registration/final result data here:>>http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm>>You can find a story analyzing these results here:>>http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1106-30.htm>>You can read about electronic voting machines -- an untested phenomenon>in American elections, here:>>http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i21thoreau.htm>>>THE OTHER PROBLEM IN FLORIDA:>>In 6 counties -- again, they were all using electronic machines -- more>votes for President were recorded than there were actual voters in the>counties.>>Altogether, these six counties reported 188,885 more votes for President>than there are voters living there.>>Right now, no one knows whether those extra 188,000 votes were cast for>Bush or for Kerry. But Bush won the state of Florida by a 5% margin -->contrary to what all the polls were showing only days earlier.>>In Glades County: 2,443 votes for Bush / 1,718 votes for Kerry / 27>votes for Other. Those add up to 4,188. But the machines recorded the>official turnout as 3,446. That adds up to 742 more votes than voters.>>In Highlands County: 25,874 for Bush / 15,346 for Kerry / 271 for>Other. Official Turnout: 33,996. That adds up to 7,495 more votes than>voters.>>In Miami-Dade County: 358,613 for Bush / 406,099 for Kerry / 3,841 for>Other. Official Turnout 716,574. That adds up to 51,979 more votes than>voters.>>In Osceola County: 43,108 for Bush / 38,617 for Kerry / 453 for Other.>Official Turnout 63589. That adds up to 18,589 more votes than voters.>>In Palm Beach County: 211,894 for Bush / 327,698 for Kerry / 3,243 for>Other. Official Turnout: 452,061. That adds up to 90,774 more votes than>voters.>>In Volusia County: 111,544 for Bush / 115,319 for Kerry / 1,495 for>Other. Official Turnout: 209,052. That adds up to 19,306 more votes than>voters.>>>Use this link to get to the data:>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/5/18466/2846>>>STILL MORE PROBLEMS IN FLORIDA>>This account comes from partisans. Four Kerry volunteers working in>Broward County sent a letter detailing election tampering to one of the>reporters on our chat list. All four signed it and included their email>addresses.>>They report a wide, disturbing range of problems, from voters saying>their electronic machines malfunctioned, poll workers denied them>assistance, to police putting up roadblocks on the routes to polling>places, and so on.>>The entire text of the letter, along with the signatures, appears at the>bottom of this letter.>>OHIO>>In Ohio, there were problems in four counties and one city.>>In Howard County, a judge ruled on Election Day that everyone standing>in line to vote at 7:30 p.m. had to eventually be allowed inside.>>The order said the ruling was good for the day of Nov. 2. (You can view>the order at the website below.) But maybe it didn't occur to the judge>that everybody might not make it inside by midnight.>>At the stroke of midnight, when the calendar legally clicked over to>Nov. 3, Republican Ken Blackwell, the secretary of state, told all the>waiting voters to go home. His workers gave them paper ballots (i.e.,>provisional ballots), told them to fill them out and bring them back>later.>>It was an improvised move that undercut the intent of the judge's>ruling, and created chaos. Many people in Howard County still haven't>turned in those ballots because they don't know where to take them or>what the deadline is.>>The only kind of ballot in a federal election that people can legally>take home, fill out and turn in later is an absentee ballot, and those>are marked as such. They're marked with clear rules concerning>deadlines, postmarking, and so on.>>So an uncounted number of people in Howard County--estimated in the>thousands-- couldn't get in and were turned away with what may be ruled>an illegal procedure. The vast majority of those votes wre expected to>go to Kerry based on the heavily Democratic population of Howard County.>>The Democrats have filed a lawsuit. You can click on the Ohio State>University law school website to read about it:>>http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:pKbOJwHH7OMJ:moritzlaw.osu.edu/elec>tionlaw/analysis/110304b.htm+Ohio+7:30+election+Blackwell+waiting+line&h>l=en&start=4&lr=lang_en>>Meanwhile, in Warren County, election officials locked the doors to the>County building and refused to allow bi-partisan observers to watch the>vote-count. They also denied access to the AP reporter (it is standard>procedure for the AP to observe vote-counting in counties all over the>country.)>>The Sheriff of the county said he did it for "homeland security">reasons. He never explained or specified what the security concerns>were.>>Here is the link to the story in the Cincinnati Enquirer:>http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/05/loc_warrenvote05.html>>>Meanwhile, in a Columbus suburb called Gahanna, the same problem showed>up with electronic machines that we saw in Florida: more votes were cast>than there were voters to cast them. In this case, however, the problem>was investigated and the extra 3,893 votes were shown to have been>erroneously tallied for Bush.>>Here is the link to the story on the Ohio Network News:>>http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2524952>>>Meanwhile, in Mahoning and Mercer Counties, electronic machines again>malfunctioned, but the effect that had on the vote count is not clear.>The machines had to be re-set, and at one point showed votes of>"negative 25 million," according to the head of the local board of>elections.>>Here is the story from the local Youngstown paper, called the>Vindicator:>>http://www.vindy.com/basic/news/281829446390855.php>>>>INDIANA>>In Laporte County, electronic voting machines once again appear to have>failed.>>They tallied results for 22,200 voters, even though there are 79,000>registered voters in LaPorte County. Assuming the county actually had a>65% turnout rate (comparable to others in the area and its own track>record), that means 29,000 votes were not counted.>>Here is the link to the story in the Michigan City News-Dispatch:>>http://www.michigancityin.com/articles/2004/11/04/news/news02.txt>>NEW HAMPSHIRE>>This is one of several states where original exit polls (interviews with>voters as they are leaving) do not jive with the results produced by>electronic voting machines. I was told by an administrator at Bev>Harris's group, called BlackBoxVoting (more on this below) that they are>urging Ralph Nader to press for a recount in New Hampshire. Nader was on>the ballot there, so he is in a good position to ask for a re-count. You>can read about Harris and her work at www.BlackBoxVoting.org.>>>SIX STATES>>In at least six states, there was a large difference between how people>said they'd voted, and how officials said they'd voted.>>In Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, New Hampshire and New>Mexico, there was a large discrepancy between what voters said in the>original exit polls, and the final results claimed by election>officials.>>In each of those six states, electronic voting machines were used in>some or most of the counties.>>In contrast, in states where paper ballots were the primary method of>voting, there was little or no discrepancy between original exit polls>and official results.>>To see an easily viewable graph of this data, go to>>http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/todays_show.html>>>That graph was originally compiled by a website affiliated with The Raw>Story, which often gets quoted in the major dailies. So far as I know,>it's a reputable site.>>You can see their original posting here:>>http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388>>>MORE ON EXIT POLLS>>These are routinely conducted in elections by major news organizations.>Accounts are surfacing that both the Associated Press and CNN (and>perhaps>others) later CHANGED their exit polling data to more closely resemble>the official results.>>So far as I know, none of the news orgs has offered an explanation. They>may try to justify it on statistical grounds.>>Here are two accounts. The first is very brief, the second is in-depth:>>http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/04/11/ana04025.html>>http://globalresearch.ca/articles/KEE411A.html>>>MORE ON ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES>>Here is an except from the Moderate Independent website about Bev>Harris's work. She is a freelance journalist who has been documenting>how unreliable the machines are, and how vulnerable they are to>tampering.>>"Bev Harris, author of Black Box Voting and the BlackBoxVoting.org web>site, has documented numerous cases of electronic disasters. One>occurred in Volusia County, Fla., in 2000 in which county election>officials hand recounted more than 184,000 paper ballots used to feed>the computerized system, after the central ballot-counting computer>showed a Socialist Party candidate receiving more than 9,000 votes and>Al Gore getting minus 19,000. Another 4,000 votes were received for Bush>that should not have been there.>>"Election officials eventually tallied Gore beating Bush by 97,063 votes>to 82,214. But the wrong numbers had already been sent to the media,>which were used by FOX and other networks to erroneously call the>election for Bush and swing the public relations part of the recount>battle in his favor.">>I urge you to get familiar with Harris and her work as quickly as>possible.>>Three Members of Congress Have Asked the GAO to Investigate the Election>>Three Congressmen have asked the General Accounting Office, a federal>agency, to investigate the election, citing questionable results in>Ohio, Florida, North Carolina and California. Click here to see their>letter to the GAO:>>http://forum.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?act=ST&f=87&t=34711>>Remember These Four Points:>>-- Bush's approval numbers were consistently below 50% throughout the>campaign.>>-- New Democratic registrations in Ohio were 10 times that of>Republicans, and in Florida, Democrats held a similar but somewhat>smaller advantage.>>-- All the polls that were still giving Bush leads after the debates>were within the margin of error, and when the undecideds started making>up their minds over the last weekend, Kerry's poll numbers were surging.>>-- the $10 million exit-poll system, specifically designed not to fail>this time, clearly showed, in the original reports, a Kerry victory.>>Other Voices to Hear:>>Other people besides me and the journalists I know are beginning to>question the legitimacy of the election. Here are some of them:>>http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php>>http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_10_31_americablog_archive.>html>#109970362694815839>>http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingSecurity.htm>http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=18588&mode=&order=0>>Here is a report of voter complaints in 7 Southern states:>>http://www.abcnews4.com/news/stories/1104/185549.html>>Again, I urge you to realize that there may still be time to do>something about this before the Electoral College meets on December>13th.>>The first step is to educate ourselves. The second step is to educate>the mainstream media. The local and regional press, and the alternative>media, have been doing their jobs; now we need the national press to do>its job, too.>>If you are concerned about this election being stolen, please do two>things:>>1) Send your concerns to everyone you know, both inside and outside the>United States.>>2) Send your concerns to the major news organizations. A list of>contacts appears at the end of this message.>>Sincerely,>>Donna Knipp, New York, N.Y.>>>The Letter from Kerry Workers In Broward County, Fla.:>>>>>"Spurred by the unwillingness of the broadcast media to report voting>problems during the 2004 election race, we want to alert others to the>widespread voter suppression and disenfranchisement that occurred in>Broward County, Florida. We staffed the emergency hotline for the Kerry>Campaign Headquarters in Broward County from late October through the>election.>>>"All of us were devastated by the margin of Bush's win in Florida,>particularly since polls predicted the race would be extremely close.>>"Many of the calls to our hotline were from voters who had pressed the>"Kerry" button on their electronic voting screen, only to have "Bush">light up as the candidate they had chosen. In some cases, this would>happen repeatedly until about the 5th or 6th time the voter pressed>"Kerry" and eventually his name would light up. In other cases, the>voters pushed "Kerry" but were later asked to confirm their "Bush" vote.>>>"We had calls about a road block, put up by the police at 7am on Nov. 2,>which blocked road access to two precinct locations in majority black>districts. There was no justification for the road block - no accident>or crime scene or construction.>>>"Many of our calls dealt with voter suppression, or manipulation, of the>Haitian population - occurrences which seem too numerous, and their>targets too indefensible, as primarily poor, first-time-voter,>Creole-speaking refugees, to be anything but systemic. In one example,>a voter whose hands were bandaged could not press the touch-screen>himself; he asked the nonpartisan election official to press "Kerry" for>him, but the election official pressed "Bush" and sent his vote>immediately into the machine. Many, many others were denied the right>to vote and were not given provisional ballots, while others were>refused assistance at the polls, even though provisional ballots and>voter assistance are legal rights.>>>"Others were told they had already voted and were turned away, although>they had never voted previously. This latter experience was a complaint>not isolated to Haitians but also included other surprised voters with>no recourse except their word against that of the Supervisor of>Elections.>>"We spoke with hundreds of voters who were certain they had registered>to vote in the past 6 months, well before the October 18 deadline, but>were not on the rolls. And those were just the people who had the>information to contact us.>>>"The local paper, citing the Supervisor of Elections office as its>source, told all people voting by absentee ballot that they could turn>in ballots by hand to any of its seven offices by 5pm on Tuesday, Nov.>2.>>"Every single one of those offices except one was closed on Tuesday.>>>"We had numerous calls from voters on Nov. 2 whose precincts had closed,>yet the Supervisor of Elections office had given voters no notification>of the closure, and no notification of where to go to vote.>>"Thousands of people were likely disenfranchised because of inexcusable>mishaps such as this. We had many calls from people who had been>harassed by poll workers, who were turned away without being allowed the>right to vote provisionally (another breech of voter rights). Other>people were turned away because the address on their driver's license>did not match the address on their voter registration card; again, this>is in direct violation of election law.>>>"All of these problems do not even take into account the 58,000 absentee>ballots that had been "lost" by the Supervisor of Elections, in perhaps>the most democratic county in the state, disenfranchising thousands of>people who were disabled, out of the country, or elderly and unable get>to the polls. These events, and many others, have been documented and>also reported to lawyers, but we fear they will not get the attention>they deserve. This is what we witnessed in just one county. We believe>that these "voting irregularities" raise serious concerns about the>legitimacy of the results in Florida, and more broadly, about the health>of democracy in this country.">>Libby Anker Libanker@berkeley.edu>Ryan Centner rcentner@berkeley.edu>Jill Greenlee jillgs@socrates.berkeley.edu>Rachel Van Sickle-Ward rvansick@berkeley.edu>>A list of media contacts:>>ABC News>47 W. 66 St., New York, NY 10023>Phone: 212-456-7777>D.C. Bureau phone: 202-222-7777>General e-mail: netaudr@abc.com>>ABC World News Tonight with Peter Jennings:>Phone: 212-456-4040>Fax: 212-456-2795>E-mail: netaudr@abc.com>>Nightline:>1717 DeSales St., NW, Washington, DC 20036>Phone: 202-222-7000>E-mail: niteline@abc.com>>20/20:>147 Columbus Ave., 10th fl, New York, NY 10023>Phone: 212-456-2020>Fax: 212-456-0533>E-mail: 2020@abc.com>>ABC's Good Morning America:>147 Columbus Ave., New York, NY 10023>Phone: 212-456-5900>Fax: 212-456-7257>E-mail: netaudr@abc.com>>CBS>>CBS News>524 W. 57 St., New York, NY 10019>Phone: 212-975-4321>Fax: 212-975-1893>D.C. Bureau phone: 202-457-4385>>CBS Evening News with Dan Rather:>Phone: 212-975-3691 or 202-457-4385>Fax: 212-975-1893>>The Early Show:>Phone: 212-975-2824>Fax: 212-975-7133 or 212-975-2033>>60 Minutes:>555 W. 57th St., New York, NY 10019-2985>Phone: 212-975-2006>Fax: 212-757-6975>>60 Minutes II:>Phone: 212-975-6200>>CNBC>2200 Fletcher Ave.>Fort Lee, NJ 07024>Phone: (201) 585-2622>Fax: (201) 583-5453>Email: info@cnbc.com>>CNN>One CNN Center, Box 105366, Atlanta, GA 30303-5366>Phone: 404-827-1500>Fax: 404-827-1906>E-mail: cnn.feedback@cnn.com>>CNN Washington Bureau>820 First St. N.E., Washington, DC 20002>Phone: 202-898-7900>Fax: 202-898-7923>>Crossfire>Phone: 202-898-7655>Fax: 202-898-7611>>Larry King Live>Phone: 202-898-7690>Fax: 202-898-7686>>Fox News Channel>1211 Ave. of the Americas>New York, NY 10036>Phone: (212) 301-3000>Fax: (212) 301-4229>Email: comments@foxnews.com>>MSNBC>One MSNBC Plaza>Secaucus, NJ 07094>Phone: (201) 583-5000>Fax: (201) 583-5453>Email: world@msnbc.com>>NBC>30 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, NY 10112>Phone: 212-664-4444>Fax: 212-664-4426>>>Washington Bureau>4001 Nebraska Ave. NW, Washington, DC 20016>Phone: 202-885-4200>Fax: 202-362-2009>>>NBC Nightly News with Tom Brokaw:>Phone: 212-664-4971 or 202-885-4259 Fax: 202-362-2009 E-mail:>nightly@nbc.com>>NBC News' Today:>Phone: 212-664-4602 or 202-885-4231>Fax: 212-664-4426>E-mail: today@nbc.com>>Dateline NBC>Phone: 212-664-7501>Fax: 212-664-7864>E-mail: dateline@nbc.com>>>Public Broadcasting>>PBS>1320 Braddock Place, Alexandria, VA 22314>Phone: 703-739-5000>Fax: 703-739-8458>>The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer>3620 South 27th St., Arlington, VA 22206>Phone: 703-998-2150>E-mail: newshour@pbs.org>>National Public Radio>635 Massachusetts Ave. NW, Washington, DC 20001-3753>Phone: 202-513-2000>Fax: 202-513-3329>E-mail: Jeffrey Dvorkin, Ombudsman ombudsman@npr.org>>All Things Considered:>Phone: 202-513-2110>E-mail: atc@npr.org>>Morning Edition:>Phone: 202-513-2150>Fax: 202-513-3329>E-mail: morning@npr.org>>National Newspapers>>Los Angeles Times>202 West First Street, Los Angeles, CA 90012>Phone: 800-528-4637 or 213-237-5000>Fax: 213-237-4712>E-mail: letters@latimes.com>>New York Times>229 W. 43rd St., New York, NY 10036>Phone: 212-556-1234>Fax: 212-556-3690>D.C. Bureau phone: 202-862-0300>E-mail: letters@nytimes.com>>USA Today>1000 Wilson Blvd., Arlington, VA 22229>Phone: 800-872-0001 or 703-276-3651>Fax: 703-247-3108>E-mail: editor@usatoday.com>>Wall Street Journal>200 Liberty St., New York, NY 10281>Phone: 212-416-2000>Fax: 212-416-2658>E-mail: editors@interactive.wsj.com>>Washington Post>1150 15th St., NW, Washington, DC 20071>Phone: 202-334-6000>Fax: 202-334-5269>E-mail: ombudsman@washpost.com>>Associated Press>50 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, NY 10020>Phone: 212-621-1500>Fax: 212-621-7523>D.C. Bureau phone: 202-776-9400>>Magazines>>Newsweek>251 W 57th Street, New York, NY 10019>Phone: 212-445-4000>Fax: 212-445-5068>E-mail: letters@newsweek.com>>Time>Time & Life Bldg., Rockefeller Center, New York, NY 10020>Phone: 212-522-1212>Fax: 212-522-0323>E-mail: letters@time.com>>U.S. News & World Report>1050 Thomas Jefferson St., Washington, DC 20007>Phone: 202-955-2000>Fax: 202-955-2049>E-mail: letters@usnews.com
― elrod hendrix, Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:39 (twenty years ago)
>Here are the accounts of election tampering from four states, plus>reports on multi-state problems.>>(Please note: some of the newspaper links may expire soon. You may want>to print out the stories so that later on, you don't have to buy them>from the newspapers' archives.)>>>FLORIDA:>>The most troubling news comes out of Florida. Throughout most of the>state, new electronic voting machines were in use. These machines -->many manufactured by a company called Diebold -- are controversial>because they don't leave a paper trail.>>There is no way to double-check the results.>>The final Florida tallies on Diebold machines from Tuesday are literally>unbelievable.>>In 29 counties where Diebold machines (an optical scanner) were used to>count the ballots, large majorities of voters were registered Democrats.>But the final results gave all the counties to Bush, sometimes by huge>margins.>>The individual county data shows how unlikely the machine results were.>>For instance:>>In Calhoun County, 82% of registered voters are Democrats. But Diebold>machines said 63% of the county voted for Bush.>>In Lafayette County, 83% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 74%>of the county voted for Bush.>>In Liberty County, 88% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 64%>voted for Bush.>>In Washington County, 67% of voters are Democrats, but Diebold said 71%>voted for Bush.>>This same pattern appears in the results for 29 COUNTIES in Florida. In>every one of those counties, the Diebold Optical Scanner produced the>results.>>>The Optical Scanner has been called the voting machine that is most>susceptible to tampering.>>Many of you have been watching elections closely for years. Do you>believe that in 29 Florida counties in which Democrats were in the>majority -- in some cases with 4 out of 5 registered voters being>Democrats -- they all voted strongly for Bush?>>Here are the links.>>You can find the voter registration/final result data here:>>http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm>>You can find a story analyzing these results here:>>http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1106-30.htm>>You can read about electronic voting machines -- an untested phenomenon>in American elections, here:>>http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i21thoreau.htm>>>THE OTHER PROBLEM IN FLORIDA:>>In 6 counties -- again, they were all using electronic machines -- more>votes for President were recorded than there were actual voters in the>counties.>>Altogether, these six counties reported 188,885 more votes for President>than there are voters living there.>>Right now, no one knows whether those extra 188,000 votes were cast for>Bush or for Kerry. But Bush won the state of Florida by a 5% margin -->contrary to what all the polls were showing only days earlier.>>In Glades County: 2,443 votes for Bush / 1,718 votes for Kerry / 27>votes for Other. Those add up to 4,188. But the machines recorded the>official turnout as 3,446. That adds up to 742 more votes than voters.>>In Highlands County: 25,874 for Bush / 15,346 for Kerry / 271 for>Other. Official Turnout: 33,996. That adds up to 7,495 more votes than>voters.>>In Miami-Dade County: 358,613 for Bush / 406,099 for Kerry / 3,841 for>Other. Official Turnout 716,574. That adds up to 51,979 more votes than>voters.>>In Osceola County: 43,108 for Bush / 38,617 for Kerry / 453 for Other.>Official Turnout 63589. That adds up to 18,589 more votes than voters.>>In Palm Beach County: 211,894 for Bush / 327,698 for Kerry / 3,243 for>Other. Official Turnout: 452,061. That adds up to 90,774 more votes than>voters.>>In Volusia County: 111,544 for Bush / 115,319 for Kerry / 1,495 for>Other. Official Turnout: 209,052. That adds up to 19,306 more votes than>voters.>>>Use this link to get to the data:>http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/5/18466/2846>>>STILL MORE PROBLEMS IN FLORIDA>>This account comes from partisans. Four Kerry volunteers working in>Broward County sent a letter detailing election tampering to one of the>reporters on our chat list. All four signed it and included their email>addresses.>>They report a wide, disturbing range of problems, from voters saying>their electronic machines malfunctioned, poll workers denied them>assistance, to police putting up roadblocks on the routes to polling>places, and so on.>>The entire text of the letter, along with the signatures, appears at the>bottom of this letter.>>OHIO>>In Ohio, there were problems in four counties and one city.>>In Howard County, a judge ruled on Election Day that everyone standing>in line to vote at 7:30 p.m. had to eventually be allowed inside.>>The order said the ruling was good for the day of Nov. 2. (You can view>the order at the website below.) But maybe it didn't occur to the judge>that everybody might not make it inside by midnight.>>At the stroke of midnight, when the calendar legally clicked over to>Nov. 3, Republican Ken Blackwell, the secretary of state, told all the>waiting voters to go home. His workers gave them paper ballots (i.e.,>provisional ballots), told them to fill them out and bring them back>later.>>It was an improvised move that undercut the intent of the judge's>ruling, and created chaos. Many people in Howard County still haven't>turned in those ballots because they don't know where to take them or>what the deadline is.>>The only kind of ballot in a federal election that people can legally>take home, fill out and turn in later is an absentee ballot, and those>are marked as such. They're marked with clear rules concerning>deadlines, postmarking, and so on.>>So an uncounted number of people in Howard County--estimated in the>thousands-- couldn't get in and were turned away with what may be ruled>an illegal procedure. The vast majority of those votes wre expected to>go to Kerry based on the heavily Democratic population of Howard County.>>The Democrats have filed a lawsuit. You can click on the Ohio State>University law school website to read about it:>>http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:pKbOJwHH7OMJ:moritzlaw.osu.edu/elec>tionlaw/analysis/110304b.htm+Ohio+7:30+election+Blackwell+waiting+line&h>l=en&start=4&lr=lang_en>>Meanwhile, in Warren County, election officials locked the doors to the>County building and refused to allow bi-partisan observers to watch the>vote-count. They also denied access to the AP reporter (it is standard>procedure for the AP to observe vote-counting in counties all over the>country.)>>The Sheriff of the county said he did it for "homeland security">reasons. He never explained or specified what the security concerns>were.>>Here is the link to the story in the Cincinnati Enquirer:>http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/05/loc_warrenvote05.html>>>Meanwhile, in a Columbus suburb called Gahanna, the same problem showed>up with electronic machines that we saw in Florida: more votes were cast>than there were voters to cast them. In this case, however, the problem>was investigated and the extra 3,893 votes were shown to have been>erroneously tallied for Bush.>>Here is the link to the story on the Ohio Network News:>>http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=2524952>>>Meanwhile, in Mahoning and Mercer Counties, electronic machines again>malfunctioned, but the effect that had on the vote count is not clear.>The machines had to be re-set, and at one point showed votes of>"negative 25 million," according to the head of the local board of>elections.>>Here is the story from the local Youngstown paper, called the>Vindicator:>>http://www.vindy.com/basic/news/281829446390855.php>>>>INDIANA>>In Laporte County, electronic voting machines once again appear to have>failed.>>They tallied results for 22,200 voters, even though there are 79,000>registered voters in LaPorte County. Assuming the county actually had a>65% turnout rate (comparable to others in the area and its own track>record), that means 29,000 votes were not counted.>>Here is the link to the story in the Michigan City News-Dispatch:>>http://www.michigancityin.com/articles/2004/11/04/news/news02.txt>>NEW HAMPSHIRE>>This is one of several states where original exit polls (interviews with>voters as they are leaving) do not jive with the results produced by>electronic voting machines. I was told by an administrator at Bev>Harris's group, called BlackBoxVoting (more on this below) that they are>urging Ralph Nader to press for a recount in New Hampshire. Nader was on>the ballot there, so he is in a good position to ask for a re-count. You>can read about Harris and her work at www.BlackBoxVoting.org.>>>SIX STATES>>In at least six states, there was a large difference between how people>said they'd voted, and how officials said they'd voted.>>In Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, New Hampshire and New>Mexico, there was a large discrepancy between what voters said in the>original exit polls, and the final results claimed by election>officials.>>In each of those six states, electronic voting machines were used in>some or most of the counties.>>In contrast, in states where paper ballots were the primary method of>voting, there was little or no discrepancy between original exit polls>and official results.>>To see an easily viewable graph of this data, go to>>http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/todays_show.html>>>That graph was originally compiled by a website affiliated with The Raw>Story, which often gets quoted in the major dailies. So far as I know,>it's a reputable site.>>You can see their original posting here:>>http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388>>>MORE ON EXIT POLLS>>These are routinely conducted in elections by major news organizations.>Accounts are surfacing that both the Associated Press and CNN (and>perhaps>others) later CHANGED their exit polling data to more closely resemble>the official results.>>So far as I know, none of the news orgs has offered an explanation. They>may try to justify it on statistical grounds.>>Here are two accounts. The first is very brief, the second is in-depth:>>http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/04/11/ana04025.html>>http://globalresearch.ca/articles/KEE411A.html>>>MORE ON ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES>>Here is an except from the Moderate Independent website about Bev>Harris's work. She is a freelance journalist who has been documenting>how unreliable the machines are, and how vulnerable they are to>tampering.>>"Bev Harris, author of Black Box Voting and the BlackBoxVoting.org web>site, has documented numerous cases of electronic disasters. One>occurred in Volusia County, Fla., in 2000 in which county election>officials hand recounted more than 184,000 paper ballots used to feed>the computerized system, after the central ballot-counting computer>showed a Socialist Party candidate receiving more than 9,000 votes and>Al Gore getting minus 19,000. Another 4,000 votes were received for Bush>that should not have been there.>>"Election officials eventually tallied Gore beating Bush by 97,063 votes>to 82,214. But the wrong numbers had already been sent to the media,>which were used by FOX and other networks to erroneously call the>election for Bush and swing the public relations part of the recount>battle in his favor.">>I urge you to get familiar with Harris and her work as quickly as>possible.>>Three Members of Congress Have Asked the GAO to Investigate the Election>>Three Congressmen have asked the General Accounting Office, a federal>agency, to investigate the election, citing questionable results in>Ohio, Florida, North Carolina and California. Click here to see their>letter to the GAO:>>http://forum.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?act=ST&f=87&t=34711>>Remember These Four Points:>>-- Bush's approval numbers were consistently below 50% throughout the>campaign.>>-- New Democratic registrations in Ohio were 10 times that of>Republicans, and in Florida, Democrats held a similar but somewhat>smaller advantage.>>-- All the polls that were still giving Bush leads after the debates>were within the margin of error, and when the undecideds started making>up their minds over the last weekend, Kerry's poll numbers were surging.>>-- the $10 million exit-poll system, specifically designed not to fail>this time, clearly showed, in the original reports, a Kerry victory.>>Other Voices to Hear:>>Other people besides me and the journalists I know are beginning to>question the legitimacy of the election. Here are some of them:>>http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php>>http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_10_31_americablog_archive.>html>#109970362694815839>>http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingSecurity.htm>http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=18588&mode=&order=0>>Here is a report of voter complaints in 7 Southern states:>>http://www.abcnews4.com/news/stories/1104/185549.html>>Again, I urge you to realize that there may still be time to do>something about this before the Electoral College meets on December>13th.>>The first step is to educate ourselves. The second step is to educate>the mainstream media. The local and regional press, and the alternative>media, have been doing their jobs; now we need the national press to do>its job, too.>>If you are concerned about this election being stolen, please do two>things:>>1) Send your concerns to everyone you know, both inside and outside the>United States.>>2) Send your concerns to the major news organizations. A list of>contacts appears at the end of this message.>>Sincerely,>>Donna Knipp, New York, N.Y.>>>The Letter from Kerry Workers In Broward County, Fla.:>>>>>"Spurred by the unwillingness of the broadcast media to report voting>problems during the 2004 election race, we want to alert others to the>widespread voter suppression and disenfranchisement that occurred in>Broward County, Florida. We staffed the emergency hotline for the Kerry>Campaign Headquarters in Broward County from late October through the>election.>>>"All of us were devastated by the margin of Bush's win in Florida,>particularly since polls predicted the race would be extremely close.>>"Many of the calls to our hotline were from voters who had pressed the>"Kerry" button on their electronic voting screen, only to have "Bush">light up as the candidate they had chosen. In some cases, this would>happen repeatedly until about the 5th or 6th time the voter pressed>"Kerry" and eventually his name would light up. In other cases, the>voters pushed "Kerry" but were later asked to confirm their "Bush" vote.>>>"We had calls about a road block, put up by the police at 7am on Nov. 2,>which blocked road access to two precinct locations in majority black>districts. There was no justification for the road block - no accident>or crime scene or construction.>>>"Many of our calls dealt with voter suppression, or manipulation, of the>Haitian population - occurrences which seem too numerous, and their>targets too indefensible, as primarily poor, first-time-voter,>Creole-speaking refugees, to be anything but systemic. In one example,>a voter whose hands were bandaged could not press the touch-screen>himself; he asked the nonpartisan election official to press "Kerry" for>him, but the election official pressed "Bush" and sent his vote>immediately into the machine. Many, many others were denied the right>to vote and were not given provisional ballots, while others were>refused assistance at the polls, even though provisional ballots and>voter assistance are legal rights.>>>"Others were told they had already voted and were turned away, although>they had never voted previously. This latter experience was a complaint>not isolated to Haitians but also included other surprised voters with>no recourse except their word against that of the Supervisor of>Elections.>>"We spoke with hundreds of voters who were certain they had registered>to vote in the past 6 months, well before the October 18 deadline, but>were not on the rolls. And those were just the people who had the>information to contact us.>>>"The local paper, citing the Supervisor of Elections office as its>source, told all people voting by absentee ballot that they could turn>in ballots by hand to any of its seven offices by 5pm on Tuesday, Nov.>2.>>"Every single one of those offices except one was closed on Tuesday.>>>"We had numerous calls from voters on Nov. 2 whose precincts had closed,>yet the Supervisor of Elections office had given voters no notification>of the closure, and no notification of where to go to vote.>>"Thousands of people were likely disenfranchised because of inexcusable>mishaps such as this. We had many calls from people who had been>harassed by poll workers, who were turned away without being allowed the>right to vote provisionally (another breech of voter rights). Other>people were turned away because the address on their driver's license>did not match the address on their voter registration card; again, this>is in direct violation of election law.>>>"All of these problems do not even take into account the 58,000 absentee>ballots that had been "lost" by the Supervisor of Elections, in perhaps>the most democratic county in the state, disenfranchising thousands of>people who were disabled, out of the country, or elderly and unable get>to the polls. These events, and many others, have been documented and>also reported to lawyers, but we fear they will not get the attention>they deserve. This is what we witnessed in just one county. We believe>that these "voting irregularities" raise serious concerns about the>legitimacy of the results in Florida, and more broadly, about the health>of democracy in this country.">>Libby Anker Libanker@berkeley.edu>Ryan Centner rcentner@berkeley.edu>Jill Greenlee jillgs@socrates.berkeley.edu>Rachel Van Sickle-Ward rvansick@berkeley.edu>>A list of media contacts:>>ABC News>47 W. 66 St., New York, NY 10023>Phone: 212-456-7777>D.C. Bureau phone: 202-222-7777>General e-mail: netaudr@abc.com>>ABC World News Tonight with Peter Jennings:>Phone: 212-456-4040>Fax: 212-456-2795>E-mail: netaudr@abc.com>>Nightline:>1717 DeSales St., NW, Washington, DC 20036>Phone: 202-222-7000>E-mail: niteline@abc.com>>20/20:>147 Columbus Ave., 10th fl, New York, NY 10023>Phone: 212-456-2020>Fax: 212-456-0533>E-mail: 2020@abc.com>>ABC's Good Morning America:>147 Columbus Ave., New York, NY 10023>Phone: 212-456-5900>Fax: 212-456-7257>E-mail: netaudr@abc.com>>CBS>>CBS News>524 W. 57 St., New York, NY 10019>Phone: 212-975-4321>Fax: 212-975-1893>D.C. Bureau phone: 202-457-4385>>CBS Evening News with Dan Rather:>Phone: 212-975-3691 or 202-457-4385>Fax: 212-975-1893>>The Early Show:>Phone: 212-975-2824>Fax: 212-975-7133 or 212-975-2033>>60 Minutes:>555 W. 57th St., New York, NY 10019-2985>Phone: 212-975-2006>Fax: 212-757-6975>>60 Minutes II:>Phone: 212-975-6200>>CNBC>2200 Fletche
― elrod hendrix, Thursday, 11 November 2004 20:41 (twenty years ago)
― Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:04 (twenty years ago)
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:05 (twenty years ago)
I'm trying to think of other politically active ilxors in swing states who may have seen voter protection activity (do we really have no one in Ohio?)--Begs2Differ in Wisconsin, PP in Arkansas, Christine in Florida...? St. Louis is easy in a way because it's so thoroughly democrat but we were also aware it makes us a target. We had voter protection language in the black newspaper, in a Democratic newsletter that went out to most Democrats in the city, and lawyers inside and outside every polling location (mr teeny was one of these). We also had a voter protection hotline that all the campaign workers could call to get advice or to have a lawyer sent out to them. We didn't really have any problems on Election day but I'm pretty confident that we could have thoroughly documented and taken care of them if we did.
I don't really have a new point, just my own experience to support suzy's point that right now I think/hope that the democrats and the media are gathering evidence and waiting for their moment. Al Gore might have been able to swing things around his way if the timing had just been a little different, and I think that was the lesson learned.
― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:10 (twenty years ago)
People shouldn't point to the Gahanna thing as a major problem--the system worked precisely the way it was supposed to. I'm going to cut-and-paste an explanation I gave in an email, because I just don't feel like rehashing this again:
Right now we're still dealing with unofficial numbers. The final official certified count in Ohio is going to be based upon paper numbers -- what happened in Gahanna is that the paper numbers werecorrect, but the electronic recording of those numbers barfed. I'mreasonably familiar with the voting machines we're talking about here, and they don't have a lot of the same problems as the infamous Diebold machines. The Dahaher system provides a paper trail (three, actually), doesn't use a Windows/Access-based database for recording, doesn't use a modem to transmit the numbers to the board of elections, and is not easily hackable the way the Diebold machines are.
At any rate, the Diebold machines were not certified for use in Ohio -- give Ken Blackwell credit where it's due: he recognized there were too many problems with those machines and did not push for them to be certified. Some other counties in Ohio use the Danaher machines -- I know Hardin county does, although trying to argue that Kerry should have won Hardin county is like trying to argue that the moon is made of green cheese. Some other, smaller counties use different electronic voting systems that I'm not familiar with, however, the Ohio voter protection project didn't seem to be too concerned about them. However, the VAST majority of Ohioans still voteon punch cards. The counting standards in Ohio for manually counting punch cards are different and more clear than those in Florida 2000, though.
I remain reasonably confident that the unofficial Ohio numbers areessentialy correct, and that the official numbers will be correct. I will also tell you that I think Bush's margin will shrink as the provisional ballots are counted and the official counts come in, but that he will still hold the state. Unfortunately, it's just about the math. Columbus and Franklin County turned out for Kerry -- we did our job, and Kerry took this county by a much wider margin than Gore did in 2000. Even more telling is that while State Issue 1 (the anti-gay amendment) passed in Franklin County, it did so by a margin substantially lower than other areas of the state. Overall, the issue passed by 62% to 38% (unbelievably horrible, I know) -- in Franklin County, that margin was only 52% to 48%.
We don't want to admit it, but Ohio is controlled by right-wing religious conservatives now. You want proof? State Issue 1 passed in 87 of the 88 Ohio counties. The lone holdout? The hippie-haven home of my alma mater Ohio University, Athens.
― J (Jay), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:22 (twenty years ago)
http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/
It's shepherded by a very-level headed law professor whom I know well -- he's an election law specialist, and (although many probably don't know it) a democrat.
― J (Jay), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:24 (twenty years ago)
― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:27 (twenty years ago)
― m. (mitchlnw), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:29 (twenty years ago)
― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 11 November 2004 21:53 (twenty years ago)
A Note On The Presidential Election in Ohio by Congressman Dennis Kucinich The 2004 presidential election was determined by the results of Ohio. The unofficial result, as reported on November 3, had George Bush with approximately 136,000 more votes than John Kerry. Senator Kerry conceded the election to President Bush. He also said every vote would be counted. I have been vigilant in monitoring Ohio's election in 2004. Attorneys from my party closely monitored the election before and during election day. While there were some incidents of voter intimidation noted by the attorneys, most if not all cases were resolved at the scene because of quick action by challengers, witnesses, the Kerry campaign, and volunteers from other campaigns including my own.
The unofficial count gave Ohio to George Bush by approximately 136,000 votes. The official count by county Boards of Election will begin on Saturday, November 13, 2004. It is due at the Secretary of State's office by December 1. The Secretary of State must certify the election by December 3.
During this interim period, attorneys from both political parties, and those representing me, will be watching the procedures by county Boards of Elections carefully. Among the most important issues to note is the counting of the overvotes. Overvotes occur when more than one candidate is indicated on the punch card. Another issue relates to whether all properly cast provisional ballots will be counted.
My constituents have also brought other issues to my attention. In an effort to provide appropriate government oversight, I am reviewing every issue and bringing them to the attention of attorneys, congressional authorities, party officials, or Boards of Elections, as appropriate. I want to assure my constituents and others who have contacted me with their concerns, that I am paying c lose attention to this important period of time between the initial results and the official vote tabulation and will not hesitate to take appropriate legal action where supported by facts.
Serious problems surfaced in this election that must be addressed at the state and national level. Some were inefficiencies in handling the massive turn out. No citizen should have to wait for hours to vote, or worry whether their vote was actually counted.
Glitches in electronic voting in the Columbus area should move all legislatures to demand paper receipts for voting machines. Without such a paper trail, no true recount can ever be done. Note that no Diebold electronic voting machines were employed in Ohio.
Clear efforts at voter suppression and intimidation were well handled by the courts and election officials. Dirty tricks occurred across the state, including phony letters from Boards of Elections telling people that their registration through some Democratic activist groups were invalid and that Kerry voters were to report on Wednesday because of massive voter turnout. Phone calls to voters giving them erroneous polling information were also common. Attempts to subvert our right to fair elections must be investigated and prosecuted when possible.
With passion running so high in this country and specter of Florida 2000 still hanging over the presidential voting process, it is important to gather hard evidence prior to disputing the legitimacy of the election.
Meanwhile, it is obvious that the Help America Vote Act of 2002 needs to be refined. Arduous voter identification rules unfairly penalize the poor, lead to a violation of rights and defeat the intent of the act.
The official tabulation of votes for Ohio will begin on Saturday and will include four categories not reflected in the unofficial count: provisional ballots, late absentee ballots, overseas military and overseas civilian.
If the difference between George Bush and John Kerry is less than one quarter of one percent after the official tally is completed (about 16,000 votes) an automatic recount occurs under Ohio law.
If the margin is greater than one quarter of one percent, a candidate can request a recount at an expense to the candidate of $10 per precinct. Because there are approximately 12,000 precincts in Ohio, the recount would cost about $120,000, before legal fees. A recount would entail a visual inspection of every punch card ballot.
I believe we must pursue every lead which raises questions about the integrity of the electoral process. Our work may not change the outcome, but it will demonstrate that beyond our commitment to our candidates, we have a higher commitment to our democracy.
― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 11 November 2004 23:29 (twenty years ago)
Issue 1 passed 54/46 in Cuyahoga County. A number of prominent African-American ministers publicly endorsed the amendment. Would be interesting to see the voting breakdown on this at the ward level within the city.
Speaking of, if anyone wants the raw vote data down to the precinct level for Cuyahoga County, it's the 'canvassing report' at the BOE website. Don't try it on a dialup though :-)
― Jeff Wright (JeffW1858), Friday, 12 November 2004 04:07 (twenty years ago)
http://blog.democrats.com/ohio-recount
― lysander spooner, Friday, 12 November 2004 15:08 (twenty years ago)
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/12/politics/12theory.html?th
― lysander spooner, Friday, 12 November 2004 15:16 (twenty years ago)
www.whitehouse.orgVICTORY 2004: PRESIDENT'S ACCEPTANCE SPEECH INVITING THE 55 MILLION AMERICA-HATERS WHO VOTED AGAINST GOD TO BEND OVER AND TAKE IT LIKE A PRISON BITCH Remarks by the President in Acceptance SpeechThe Ronald Reagan BuildingWashington, D.C.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all. Thank you all for coming. We had a long night – and a great night. (Applause.) And now, just hours later, here I am already addressing a beautiful crowd of paranoid, fist-pumping, soon-to-be tax-exempt gazillionaires. (Applause.) Yes, as I look around I see that there are finally no self-loathing Negroes in front or behind me, which can only mean one thing: the election is OVER! (Applause.)
Earlier today, Senator Kerry called me to admit that he is a pansy-assed loser. He was very gracious. And so was I. Hell, I even held my hand over the receiver so he couldn't hear me cracking up over all the fruity liberal garbage he was spouting about "healing" and "uniting" the people. (Laughter.)
Oh – I didn't say that, did I?
Because... umm... I don't want to be a divider, I want to be a divider. Wait. Damn. I done pooped that up, too. Take two, dudes. I don't want to be a pussy uniter. I want to be a divider. (Applause.) Good Lord Almighty it feels so dang good to finally be able to say that in public. I ain't running again, so I don't have to say anymore of that bullcrap I used to spout to get elected – like, "Jeb, tear up them nigra ballots, boy!" I kid. No, seriously, the only type of uniting I'm going to be doing is when Democrats curl their Jockeys to their ankles and bend on over! YEE-HAW!
Now, don't get me wrong here: sure, I'll follow this dumb tradition of Presidents saying nice stuff about the same lousy fucker who just tried to stab me in the back. Because so what if my entire political career was built on exploiting wedge issues to inflame and polarize our electorate? By giving some lip service to "unity" today, I'll be able to play the victim next year when Democrats balk over my nominating a KKK grand wizard to the Supreme Court. (Applause.)
So yeah, on the record, Senator JFK Masshole was an admirable, honorable candidate. Off the record, that babbling killjoy tried to sell a story that would put the dead to sleep. I mean, Jesus Christ, where'd that boy study Presidential politics? My marketing whizzes sold the right story, and the little people bought it. That story was "Once upon a time... George W. Bush killed the Bogey Man, then made everyone rich. The end."
I'd like to thank the following folks for enabling my megalomania and understanding how my bloodlust and decorative Christian morals can coexist in a world where truth adapts to my omnipotence – and not visa versy. Thanks first to my wife, who proves every day that Zoloft-laced Smirnoff Ice gimlets can indeed drown out the screams of thousands of Islamiac babies I done pan-fried because they got caught between my divine wrath and Paul Wolfowitz's funny-lookin', but nonetheless lethal little cock.
Thanks also to my twins for bringing in the bimbo, girls-gone-wild, Young Stepford Wife, and "I've had an abortion but I draw the line at you having one" votes. And thanks to Karl, Karen, Ken, Matthew, and Mark for making Josef Goebbels, Joe McCarthy and Lee Atwater squeal with joy in the bowels of hell. It's too bad history has a pernickety habit of eventually peeling off the duds of the liars, the charlatans, and wolves in Good Samaritan's clothing. Otherwise, you guys would be memorialized with marble statues perched atop pyramids built from the bones of Iraqi civilians and terminally ill oldsters too poor to enjoy the luxury of treating their worthless clogged arteries with bottle of generic aspirin.
But most of all, I'd like to thank every scared shitless, emotionally impotent suburbanite who bought my empty promises of an America based on compassion, Christian mercy, and bashing the shit out of those disgusting faggots! (Applause.)
As I stand before you today, tripping my balls off with power, I promise you three things: I will abolish the income tax, and institute a flat tax that unburdens the rich of paying their fair share and forces white trash to pay an extra 12% for baby formula, Kraft mac and cheese, and Parliament menthols. I promise to privatize Social Security by creating a vast Federal Mutual Fund run by my compadres in regulation-free Houston and filling the financial gap between now and the distant future with leprechaun gold. And finally, I promise to hunt Osama Bin Laden down... and shake his hand.
In closing, before I get down to the hard work of bleeding money from social programs in order to underwrite the McJesus Industry, re-segregating the public school system, gang-banging Mother Earth for short-term profit, convincing blue collar labor monkeys that their tax cuts aren't just Band-Aids on a slit throat, and most of all, feeding the Southern Military Welfare State more tax dollars by inventing more Middle Eastern meat-grinders, I wanted to give a little shout-out to all the 48 percent of Americans who supported Senator Droopy McGook-Killa:
I formally invite all of you to commence unquestioning worship of yours truly. If, on the other hand, you nice sodomites in Jew York, San Fag Crisco, and Mick-cago got diaper rash from my holy mandate (and super-sexy popular vote), please, by all means, move your chickenshit asses to Canada, or France, or some atoll in the South Pacific. Because, let's face it, the Democratic Party is the party of scaredy-cat cowards, and crybabies. A party where the broads shave thrice daily, and the men got cunt lips. So run for the border my friends... the GOP and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Thank you, and God Bless George W. Bush's America!
(Applause.)
― suzy (suzy), Friday, 12 November 2004 19:28 (twenty years ago)
It does not include Delaware. I don't know what the population percentage change was during the four-year period between elections, and for some reason, I can't track down the numbers on the 2000 "votes for president cast." However, the number of registered voters jumped from 682,000 in 2000 to 845,000 in 2004, of which about 515,500 turned out to vote.
Anyway, here are the 2000 official numbers, compared with the 2004 unofficial numbers. Note that the the 2004 numbers do *not* include any of the 14,000-odd provisional ballots cast in Franklin County.
2000 Franklin Bush 197,862 Gore 202,018
2004 FranklinBush 234,196 Kerry 275,573
I was pleased with those numbers. I wish they were representative of the whole state.
― J (Jay), Friday, 12 November 2004 21:43 (twenty years ago)
It’s not proof of voter fraud -- at least not yet -- but it seems that somebody has some explaining to do about the election results from Florida. In a report released this morning, researchers at the University of California, Berkeley, say that George W. Bush received 130,000 more votes in Florida in 2004 than he should have received, and that the only real explanation has something to do with electronic voting machines.
Through multiple-regression analysis, the Berkeley researchers examined the increase in Bush’s support, on a county-by-county basis, between 2000 and 2004. Their conclusion: A county’s use of electronic voting machines resulted in a "disproportionate increase" in votes for Bush which "cannot be explained away by other factors."
The disparity between the votes Bush received and the votes statistical models said he should have received was largest in those e-voting counties where Al Gore was strongest in 2000: Broward, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade. Michael Hout, the Berkeley sociology professor who presented the researchers' findings today, said that he could not explain why the disparity was so high in counties that favored Gore in 2000, nor could he explain how the electronic voting machines might have over-counted Bush votes. But he said that there’s virtually no possibility -- a one in 1,000 chance that he called "trivial" -- that the voting disparities arose by chance.
"Our approach is like a smoke alarm, and it’s beeping," Hout said on a call with reporters this morning. "We're calling on officials in Florida to investigate to see if there's a fire."
Hout said the researchers applied their same tests to electronic voting in Ohio and discovered no such disparities. And even if the Berkeley researchers are right about Florida, their numbers don't change the overall result of the election there. As things stand now, Bush won Florida by about 311,000 votes. If the 130,000 "extra" votes the Berkeley researchers have found were "ghost votes" – that is, votes that were never cast but simply added to Bush’s total – then Bush's margin would drop to about 181,000 votes. But if the 130,000 votes were Kerry votes that somehow got switched to Bush votes, then Bush’s margin in Florida would drop to 51,000.
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/archive.html?blog=/politics/war_room/2004/11/18/florida/index.html
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 18 November 2004 22:42 (twenty years ago)
Regardless of the outcome of this election, once all the votes are counted -- and they will be counted -- we will continue to challenge this administration. This is not a time for Democrats to retreat and accommodate extremists on critical principles -- it is a time to stand firm.
― teeny (teeny), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:18 (twenty years ago)
― kyle (akmonday), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:30 (twenty years ago)
― teeny (teeny), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:34 (twenty years ago)
http://xnerg.blogspot.com/2004/11/exit-poll-my-finger-we-ran-into-old.html
text w/o links
exit poll my finger
we ran into an old friend while attending to business today, and exchanged some pleasantries, which led to our friend mentioning that he had been out of town for a couple of months, working on the election.
"good for you," we said. "keep your chin up. we only lost by three percentage points." we try to remind everyone, in real life as well as blogtopia (y!wctp!) that the only mandate in washington is how ken mehlman spends his evenings.
"no, no," said our friend. "i was working for the networks, nothing partisan."
"yeah, right," we said. "you're part of the problem, you son of a bitch!" we said, jokingly, though not as jokingly as polite conversation would have it.
"no, not like that. i was taking exit polls," our friend said.
at that, we went into an even bigger, good-humored, tirade. "you are the problem!" we said, joshing. "damn you!"
"don't blame us," he said. "we were right."
this piqued our interest. we talked further with our friend, who assured us that all the polling data pointed to a kerry victory. "we had kerry winning or tying in all battleground states except west virginia," he said.
our friend went on to point out that he worked for edison/mitofsky, whose polling data had never been wrong before. and, he said, the only counties in which the data they collected under-represented awol's votes were the counties in which diebold voting machines were used.
"quite a coincidence, eh?" he said.
he said there was evidence that the exit polling data was correct, and that everyone at edison/mitofsky was convinced their results were right. he also went on to bemoan the lack of media attention to this story, and to also wonder why kerry gave up so easily.
we decided that, much like the family that won't admit their dad is a serial murderer, nobody in america wants to face the fact that there is wide-spread corruption at the highest levels.
we promised our friend to blog about our conversation (keeping him anonymous, of course). we also vowed with our friend to keep fighting the good fight.
so, though it is anecdotal evidence, it's proof enough for us that 2004 was the same as 2000, only not as messy; ie, rigged and stolen.
― lysander spooner, Monday, 22 November 2004 02:01 (twenty years ago)
― kingfish (Kingfish), Monday, 22 November 2004 15:44 (twenty years ago)
― J (Jay), Monday, 22 November 2004 21:29 (twenty years ago)
― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 22 November 2004 21:34 (twenty years ago)
If you're still at all interested in this mess, both of these links, courtesy of the most recent Michael Moore newsletter, are stirring.
The first is an editorial written by Jesse Jackson
http://www.suntimes.com/output/jesse/cst-edt-jesse04.html
The second is a top-ten list by Free Press questioning the validity of the vote
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1065
― lysander spooner, Wednesday, 5 January 2005 08:31 (twenty years ago)
― Turkey versus Eagle, McCauley is my Beagle (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 5 January 2005 09:15 (twenty years ago)
― lysander spooner, Thursday, 6 January 2005 18:45 (twenty years ago)
here we go
― kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 6 January 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)
Idiots.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 6 January 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 6 January 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)
― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 6 January 2005 20:00 (twenty years ago)
― lysander spooner, Thursday, 6 January 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)
― lysander spooner, Thursday, 6 January 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 January 2005 21:01 (twenty years ago)
Haha awesome!
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 6 January 2005 21:04 (twenty years ago)
Well, the January 6th Contest is over. Some initial thoughts:
I was impressed by how prepared the Democratic speakers were, in both houses, and how very unprepared the Republican speakers were. While Democrats were citing example after example of actual vote suppression efforts, partisan electioneering on the part of state officials, etc., etc., Republicans who got up to speak mainly read from newspaper clippings or otherwise strutted and blustered about. It seems fairly clear that the Republicans weren't actually expecting a contest, and were unprepared for it.
The issue was framed very well. This isn't a contest of the outcome, but of the process, and the partisan corruption therein. Republicans will spin it as they will, but they will have very little ammunition, from Democrats, to work with. The talking point needs to be, at this point: Democrats are standing up for the right to vote of all citizens. Why aren't the Republicans?
Blackwell got hammered spectacularly, as he should have been. But for Blackwell, this is just the beginning. An investigation needs to take place as to the pattern of abuses found in Blackwell's office before, during, and after the elections -- especially those pertaining to the requested recount.
Tom DeLay is the Eric Cartman of the House. A self-centered, perpetually pissy figure with no apparent motive in life other than to cravenly scoop whatever political power he can before people get wise to him. The odds of him being indicted are soaring rapidly; couldn't happen to a more deserving nut.
Now for the aftermath. Will the media report on the actual, concrete examples of voting problems the Democrats raised? Will the media instead play clip after clip of DeLay and other cronies whining and bubbling about the sheer partisanship of bringing election problems up? And will any member of the media even leave their chairs, to do their reporting?Let's find out.
― lysander spooner, Thursday, 6 January 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)
http://amcop.blogspot.com/2005/01/choice-words.html
― peepee (peepee), Thursday, 6 January 2005 23:31 (twenty years ago)
― teeny (teeny), Thursday, 6 January 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)
Something historic happened yesterday. For the first time since 1877 a member of the House and a member of the Senate stood up together to object to the outcome of a presidential election.
This is the first step on a necessary road toward making sure that everyone is allowed to vote and that every vote is counted (something we did not see in 2000 or 2004) so the next time around ALL of us can be confident, when the election results come in, that they reflect the will of the people, not the whim of mechanical error and human obstruction. Unlike 2000, when the black members of Congress were told to sit down and shut up, this time a senator had the courage to stand with them, as the law requires, to force Congress to go back to their separate chambers to discuss and debate the issues surrounding the vote count. Senator Barbara Boxer rose to the occasion and stood with Ohio Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones and 29 other Representatives "to cast the light of truth on a flawed system which must be fixed now." The ensuing debate, at times, became a debate over me and all of you and the fact that we would dare make the attempt to protect our democracy.
I was blown away when Representative Maxine Waters took to the floor and said, "Mr. Speaker and members, I dedicate my objection to Ohio's electoral votes to Mr. Michael Moore, the producer of the documentary '9/11' and I thank him for educating the world on the threats to our democracy and the proceedings of this house on the acceptance of the electoral college votes for the 2000 presidential election."
I am honored to the point of embarrassment because it is Maxine Waters who deserves thanks for defending our most basic right, not once, but twice.
Coming out of the gates like this in the very first week of session sent a strong message that we are not going to be pushed around. If the Republicans think the next four years are going to be a cakewalk, they've got another thing coming. With Michigan Representative John Conyers leading the charge, we showed them something not seen in over 120 years. And we're just getting started!
Congratulations to the tens of thousands of you who called, faxed, and e-mailed Barbara Boxer and other senators. You have shown the world, with the strength of your convictions, that the movement toward a truly representative democracy will not be stopped in its tracks. Yesterday's actions will be marked by history books as a turning point for the electoral process and for a Democratic Party that has for too long sat back and taken it on the chin.
― lysander spooner, Saturday, 8 January 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)
that's not a very nice thing to say!
― cathy berberian (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 8 January 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)
If the Republicans think the next four years are going to be a cakewalk, they've got another thing coming
Short of filibustering, the Dems don't have any legislative power, so this is a threat without any teeth. Stop with the fucking empty rhetoric and come up with some REAL ISSUES to put on the table. This "boo hoo, our democracy is fraudulent" crap is a non-starter, it's not an action that will be marked by the history books as a turning point for the electoral process. Stop exaggerating insignificant "gains" and start engaging in some realistic plans for change.
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 8 January 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)
Barbara rules, pretty much. Having her as one of my senators for twelve years now, and soon to be eighteen at least, has been a constant source of pride. Perfect, no, but who is?
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 8 January 2005 18:47 (twenty years ago)
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 8 January 2005 19:02 (twenty years ago)
I'm not saying I completely agree with that take on things, though. I'm sure you've heard it countless times as well. I guess what I'm wondering is, if you'd care to share, what you think of the idea.
― lysander spooner, Saturday, 8 January 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)
That's the ideal case, but unfortunately, as you pointed out Lysander, deciding which side makes a more sensible argument requires more thought and effort than most people are willing to devote to the task.
The more Michael Moore tries to pass off relatively insignificant governmental proceedure as a Great Victory For Our Democracy, the more disappointed his hardcore followers will be when they find out that it isn't true (of course, the same applies for the opposite end of the political spectrum).
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 8 January 2005 19:38 (twenty years ago)
What I wonder though is if the opposite end of the political spectrum cares though. 'So Rush lies sometimes, so does my boss! It's like I'm gonna quit because of it. When's the game on?'
They seem to be more rooting for their team than voting. Maybe (for the sake of discussion) right now in America the caring need to realize that the Republicans are the NFC and the Democrats the AFC. One side is about defense, the other progress. Give people reasons to root and they will.
(apologies for the facile oversimplification of our culture's character)
― lysander spooner, Saturday, 8 January 2005 19:48 (twenty years ago)
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 9 January 2005 22:13 (twenty years ago)
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 9 January 2005 22:14 (twenty years ago)
http://mediamatters.org/items/200501080003
― lysander spooner, Sunday, 9 January 2005 23:53 (twenty years ago)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6799311/site/newsweek/
― lysander spooner, Monday, 10 January 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)
HARVEY WASSERMAN: Ohio decided the 2004 election. We believe that there -- we are pretty certain that there was a clear campaign to guarantee that, under any circumstances, George W. Bush would win Ohio. The president, the CEO of Diebold, Wally O’Dell, in the year prior to the election, sent out a fundraising notice saying he was going to guarantee that Ohio's electoral votes would go to George W. Bush. This was a little fishy, coming from the guy who’s in charge of the Diebold Corporation, on which were cast and counted a substantial percentage of the votes here in Ohio.
BOB FITRAKIS: And he was also a member of the President's Pioneer and Ranger team, was at the Crawford ranch, raised $200,000 for the President. But even more interesting, a group called the Mighty Texas Strike Force showed up two weeks in advance, stayed at the Holiday Inn -- we have affidavit on this from a Republican night clerk there, who actually turned them in. They were data mining. They seemed to know -- and they were using payphones only -- who owned parking tickets, who was behind on their child support, who had traffic tickets, and they were caught making phone calls telling people if they showed up at the polls, they would be arrested. They were also calling people on probation and making the same threats.
When we contacted the Mighty Texas Strike Force through the Free Press and inquired about who they were, they proudly said that they were linked to the White House and Karl Rove and proudly bragged about their role. Also, fliers went up everywhere, telling people they were illegally registered and that Democrats had to vote on Wednesday and Republicans on Tuesday. All of this is in the book.
HARVEY WASSERMAN: You have to remember that the 2004 election was run by Jay Kenneth Blackwell, the Secretary of State of Ohio, who simultaneously served as the co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign, and the 2006 election is being run by the same man who is now a GOP candidate for governor here. This gives new dimension to the term “conflict of interest.” There is no way that the Republican Party would have carried Ohio in 2004 with a fair election. It did not happen, and we're very much afraid that many of the key -- the key U.S. Senate race and many of the key House races in Ohio in 2006 are going to be subject to fraud and that the Democrats, the people who think that the Democrats are going to do well in this election, may well be sorely disappointed.
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 22:40 (eighteen years ago)
― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 22:43 (eighteen years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 22:47 (eighteen years ago)
― tremendoid (tremendoid), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 23:09 (eighteen years ago)
it's on netflix too.
― tremendoid (tremendoid), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 23:10 (eighteen years ago)
― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 31 October 2006 23:22 (eighteen years ago)
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 06:35 (eighteen years ago)
― FACTS: I'M A WAITER (TOMBOT), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 06:44 (eighteen years ago)
That news item from last week of Bush making it easier to declare martial law is in preparation for dealing with the protests that will inevitably result from 2006 election malfeasance and chaos.
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 1 November 2006 23:29 (eighteen years ago)
― richardk (Richard K), Thursday, 2 November 2006 10:06 (eighteen years ago)
― GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Thursday, 2 November 2006 10:35 (eighteen years ago)
Tennessee's Republican Party chairman complained to Shelby County election officials that electronic voting machine cards were missing in Memphis, the hometown of Democratic U.S. Senate nominee Harold Ford Jr.
"It has come to our attention that several smart cards used in early voting are missing from at least one early voting site in Memphis, Tenn.," Bob Davis said in a later dated Thursday. "The lack of oversight and control over these smartcards has created a situation which could allow for voter fraud."
The letter called on the commission to "locate these missing smart cards as soon as possible."
Tennessee Election Coordinator Brook Thompson said Friday that even if the cards aren't recovered by officials there is no danger of fraud because they can't be used again.
"The cards are programmed such that once you use them, they cannot be reused until they are reactivated by the Election Commission," Thompson said.
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Saturday, 4 November 2006 02:09 (eighteen years ago)
thing about this is, if there's enough of these, how are they gunna enforce it? the army, the reserves, & the national guard are fucked right now.
― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Saturday, 4 November 2006 02:35 (eighteen years ago)
My guess is that they're only expecting isolated demonstrations from the same group of usual suspects
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Saturday, 4 November 2006 17:06 (eighteen years ago)
― R_S (RSLaRue), Saturday, 4 November 2006 23:31 (eighteen years ago)
― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Saturday, 4 November 2006 23:48 (eighteen years ago)
― gbx (skowly), Sunday, 5 November 2006 00:36 (eighteen years ago)
― StanM (StanM), Sunday, 5 November 2006 17:18 (eighteen years ago)
CLEVELAND — Two election workers were convicted Wednesday of rigging a recount of the 2004 presidential election to avoid a more thorough review in Ohio's most populous county.
Jacqueline Maiden, elections coordinator of the Cuyahoga County Elections Board, and ballot manager Kathleen Dreamer each were convicted of a felony count of negligent misconduct of an elections employee. They also were convicted of one misdemeanor count each of failure of elections employees to perform their duty.
Prosecutors accused Maiden and Dreamer of secretly reviewing preselected ballots before a public recount on Dec. 16, 2004. They worked behind closed doors for three days to pick ballots they knew would not cause discrepancies when checked by hand, prosecutors said.
Defense attorney Roger Synenberg has said the workers were following procedures as they understood them.
Ohio gave President Bush the electoral votes he needed to defeat Democratic Sen. John Kerry in the close election and hold on to the White House in 2004.
Special prosecutor Kevin Baxter did not claim the workers' actions affected the outcome of the election — Kerry gained 17 votes and Bush lost six in the county's recount.
Maiden and Dreamer, who still work for the elections board, face a possible sentence of six to 18 months for the felony conviction. Sentencing is on Feb. 26.
A message left for Elections Board Director Michael Vu was not immediately returned Wednesday. The board released a statement that said its goal is to restore confidence in the county's election progress and pursue reforms in addition to those made since 2004.
― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Thursday, 25 January 2007 21:18 (eighteen years ago)
From http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose-your-house-lose-your-vote
The chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County, Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, is planning to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP’s effort to challenge some voters on Election Day.“We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren’t voting from those addresses,” party chairman James Carabelli told Michigan Messenger in a telephone interview earlier this week. He said the local party wanted to make sure that proper electoral procedures were followed.
“We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren’t voting from those addresses,” party chairman James Carabelli told Michigan Messenger in a telephone interview earlier this week. He said the local party wanted to make sure that proper electoral procedures were followed.
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 13 September 2008 08:09 (sixteen years ago)
I don't understand this... It's a national election, but you still have to live in particular area to vote? Shouldn't all US citizens be automatically allowed to vote? What about Americans living abroad, can't they vote?
― Tuomas, Saturday, 13 September 2008 09:17 (sixteen years ago)
You have to be registered to vote at your current address and you can only vote in the state you are registered to vote in except by absentee ballot.
― The Juan MacCain (The Reverend), Saturday, 13 September 2008 09:32 (sixteen years ago)
Americans living abroad can vote by absentee.
Why can't they use the same system for those who don't have a current address then? Seems kinda unfair that you can't vote if you've, for example, been evicted.
― Tuomas, Saturday, 13 September 2008 10:15 (sixteen years ago)
I mean, I do understand that the votes are count separately in each state, but what happens to those absentee votes then? Are they added to some random state, or do they form their own whole?
― Tuomas, Saturday, 13 September 2008 10:17 (sixteen years ago)
there is nothing unfair about American politics or the American electoral system and there never has been.
― sex viagra cialis hard teen firm wet tight sexy rod unit teens hole suck (max), Saturday, 13 September 2008 11:12 (sixteen years ago)
Tuomas, what you must understand is that the USA has this extremely weird patchwork federal system, where the country is broken into 50 states and a large number of powers and perogatives are reserved to those states, where the local population can do as they please.
One of those perogatives is running elections - apart from a few basic requirements in the US Constitution and some national laws such as the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Consequently, there are 50 distinct and seperate sets of laws governing elections.
As for national elections, another one of the peculiartities of the USA system is that there are a sum total of two offices filled by national vote: president and vice president. And this does not even factor in the weirdness of the "electoral college" that acts as a buffer between voters and the actual voting for president and vice president. Every other political office in the nation is filled by an election at the state or local level.
These strange contrivances have deep historical roots and are not likely to be changed, unless some sort of mass movement arises to demand a change. No such movement is in anywhere in sight.
― Aimless, Saturday, 13 September 2008 16:58 (sixteen years ago)
Tuomas, it's not that these people need a special ballot to vote - they just need to be registered at and have proof of residence for wherever they've moved after being evicted/foreclosed. A royal pain in the ass, but feasible.
― milo z, Saturday, 13 September 2008 17:35 (sixteen years ago)
those 2006 posts are lol
― the internets ideal (velko), Saturday, 13 September 2008 17:44 (sixteen years ago)