why is it that the female leads in "ugly duckling" movies are always exceptionally pretty?

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just sayin'.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, give an example.

― Nowell (Nowell), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

And am I such a rockist because I think they are often prettier before their transformation into a swan? Ally Sheedy in the Breakfast Club used to make me so angry as a teenager.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:46 (twenty-one years ago)

cuz no one wants to pay money to look at ugly chixxx duh

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Another one is that Rachel Leigh Cook/Freddie Prinze Jr. one.

― n/a (Nick A.), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, give an example.

lili taylor in dogfight.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Rachael Leigh Cook in She's All That, though I guess she was meant to be nerdy rather than a ugly ducking...and of course, she looked better before transformation.

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

cuz no one wants to pay money to look at ugly chixxx duh

just harmony korine.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38266000/jpg/_38266609_princess300.jpg

― peter smith (plsmith), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

pretty actress + eyeglasses = RESPECTED MARINE BIOLOGIST/GRADE A STUDENT

― adam... (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.thezreview.co.uk/posters/posterimages/welcometothedollhouse2.jpg

― adam... (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

don't forget the messy hair!

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

She's not ugly.

― Nowell (Nowell), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

The real answer to this question involves the immensely pleasurable experience (for the viewer) of buying into the status quo.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

What about Sandy's transformation in GREASE?? Va-va-voom. Slut.

― andy, Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.audreyhepburn.com/assets/life/film/popup/1964_mflady.jpg

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

http://emp.byui.edu/raishm/films/mary.jpg

― Nemo (JND), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Because it's easier for her to be pretty at the end of the film when she's dolled up and the male lead's jaw drops open because he didn't realise how pretty she was if she was pretty at the beginning too.

― lupine lupin (lupinelupin), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Because there's a pretty homecoming queen inside of each and every one of us.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I like how screenwriters use the lazy stereotype of "lead actress in glasses" = "unattactive" for the before, which usually it's more like "lead actress in glasses" = "wanna fuck/make mixtapes for".

― kingfish (Kingfish), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

The great example of this is a film called something like Frankie and Johnny, except not quite, I think, in which the unattractive woman who has never had male interest is played by Michelle Pfeiffer.

I think producers spending their lives surrounded by top actresses and aspiring starlets may skew their perspective more than a little.

― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I think part of it is that the characters aren't ugly beforehand, they just have a low self-esteem. It's a message to young female viewers that, hey, maybe you are really pretty and you just don't realize it yet...? I mean, that's what I got out of it when I was younger anyway.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

― Patrick Allan (adr), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Whoops, that'll teach me for venturing into tags!

http://www.americanphoto.co.jp/photosearch/Previews/PLX050139.jpg

― Patrick Allan (adr), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

ANNE HATHAWAY OMG

― 57 7th (calstars), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:19 (twenty-one years ago)

http://home.earthlink.net/~jenolen/januma.gif

Maybe it shouldn't qualify, since Janeane does look like many attractive girls I know who don't think they're attractive, but the levels of emotional dysfunction required for the "hijinks" in this movie is a bit disconcerting. Plus she's told she ugly several times in the movie, which is just wrong.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, that movie was awful.

― Leon the Fratboy (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I worshipped her around the time this movie came out, so I can't hate it entirely. I should though. Everybody should.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

What about Cameron Diaz in Being John Malkovich?

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

But doesn't get prettied-up, she lezs it up.

― Doobie Keebler (Charles McCain), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:35 (twenty-one years ago)

miccio otm.

― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:38 (twenty-one years ago)

True. She does do a pretty decent job of making her traditionally pretty self seem genuinely dorky, though.

I remember going to see the Truth About Cats & Dogs in the theater because I thought Janeane was hot (I must have been about 14?).

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw it because I idolized Janeane. I really enjoyed that movie.

― Sarah McLusky (coco), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:44 (twenty-one years ago)

i think janeane is much hotter now that she's actually become a frumpy talk-radio spinster instead of just playing one in a movie.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:51 (twenty-one years ago)

this is a rhetorical question, isn't it? they could always give someone who wasn't conventionally attractive the role, but then supposedly no-one would wanna watch that.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Girls would/Boys wouldn't

― Doobie Keebler (Charles McCain), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 22:57 (twenty-one years ago)

it's so people can congratulate themselves for thinking the "ugly" girls are prettier when really they're just celebutantes dressed in halloween costumes.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

otm

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

The great example of this is a film called something like Frankie and Johnny, except not quite, I think, in which the unattractive woman who has never had male interest is played by Michelle Pfeiffer.

...who is possibly the most nondescript-looking woman in hollywood. there's nothing wrong with her, but there's nothing especially right with her either.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

it's so people can congratulate themselves for thinking the "ugly" girls are prettier when really they're just celebutantes dressed in halloween costumes.

they don't make these movies for guys.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

well, there's always doctor detroit...

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:58 (twenty-one years ago)

that was made for guys

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

sad, little guys

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

The most nondescript looking woman in Hollywood is easily Gretchen Mol, not Michelle Pfieffer! Seriously, the woman looks like a drawing on the cover of a Sweet Valley High book.

Anyway I just actually wanted to post how much that still from It's A Wonderful Life pissed me off. That movie always pisses me off, but it is actually that specific section of it that really angers me the most. IF GEORGE BAILEY NEVER LIVED HIS WIFE WOULD'VE STOPPED HAVING NORMAL VISION AND BECOME NEARSIGHTED OMG WTF.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

i'll see your gretchen mol and raise you a heather locklear. no wait, virginia madsen.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh god. You just cast the. Worst. Movie. Ever. Can we pull Nicolette Sheridan out from the crypts for it?

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Women have exceptionally good taste in women.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

old people to be played by lindsay wagner and donna mills

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

IF GEORGE BAILEY NEVER LIVED HIS WIFE WOULD'VE STOPPED HAVING NORMAL VISION AND BECOME NEARSIGHTED OMG WTF.

Because of all the masturbating, duh.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

What about Cameron Diaz in Being John Malkovich?

Still not attractive.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember it didn't bother me so much that Janeane was supposed to be "the ugly one" in Cats & Dogs... It bothered me much more that I had to suspend so much disbelief to make sense of Uma as "the beautiful one."

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:20 (twenty-one years ago)

What I find most interesting about The Truth About Cats And Dogs, actually, returning to that topic randomly, is while Uma Thurman fits the blonde hair/blue eyed stereotype of Hollywood hotness, OTOH she is really quite "odd" looking herself by "Hollywood standards," and not only that but they seriously kind of klutzed her out and frumped her out for that film, and not just for the bits she pretended to be Janeane Garafolo. I always remembered being totally unsure what point they were trying to get across in that film other than Janeane Garafolo hates herself.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Thank you, Spencer. Thank you for making me think of Jimmy Stewart having sex. Bastardo.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:20 (twenty-one years ago)

whoops I just said the same thing as Martin.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

It sure seemed like a lot of time was spent really early on in Cats & Dogs making the audience really admire Janeane's character. I mean, why else did we get to see her playing the violin incredibly well? Or was the point of that scene that she was playing it ALONE?

Beats me... At least Janeane didn't have to deal with elephants in that film. Though I guess technically it could have been within the scope of her character.

Actually Ally I think you may have said what I said better than I said it. Cause mine was still really tinted with my super-personal dislike of Uma and the fact that on just about every imaginable level I was and still am way too attracted to Janeane.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

If you don't mind, I'd like to share a little poem I've written. It's called "Freek-A-Leek." Dedicated to my lovely wife, Gloria.

http://images.encarta.msn.com/xrefmedia/sharemed/targets/images/pho/t053/T053205A.jpg

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

but it doesn't MATTER that uma is weird-looking. she's tall and thin and blonde and that's all anyone cares about! hello, paris hilton has a career and she looks like something i ate and dropped.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Huh... Weird I never noticed that Uma was tall and thin. I was too distracted by the fact that she looks weird.

Jody, if it really looked like Paris Hilton, you probably shouldn't have eaten it. Should have put it in cotton balls, kept it for 10 years and then auctioned it off on ebay, yo.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"Anyway I just actually wanted to post how much that still from It's A Wonderful Life pissed me off. That movie always pisses me off, but it is actually that specific section of it that really angers me the most. IF GEORGE BAILEY NEVER LIVED HIS WIFE WOULD'VE STOPPED HAVING NORMAL VISION AND BECOME NEARSIGHTED OMG WTF."

she was working at a LIBRARY right?? so maybe no husband=retreat into bookishness=nearsightedness, duh??? i mean who the FUCK are you to question frank capra??

― John (jdahlem), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Dude, Courtney Love is tall, thin and blonde and ain't no one gonna cast her as the sexy foil to the frumpy brunette!

Actually, I mean there are tons of noteable exceptions on both sides, but being either really tall or really short doesn't seem to be a plus for most actresses. I mean there are always your Julia Roberts (who is also really odd looking, actually) or your Winona Ryders but generally they seem to want actresses to be exactly 5'5. No more no less. I blame actors, they really need to start casting tall ass dudes again.

XPOST I'M OBVIOUSLY A TERRORIST, JOHN.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm just pissed cause George Bailey didn't do shit for my becoming nearsighted as I got older.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Well maybe if he fucking died, we would've all been 20/20. I hate him and the high Merry Xmas horse he rode in on.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

but... Gretchen Mol is hot.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Courtney Love is tall? Man what's wrong with me? I guess I was too busy being distracted by the fact that she's a fucking retard.

Julia Roberts scares me though. For a bunch of reasons not worth going into.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

What about Cameron Diaz in Being John Malkovich?

Still not attractive.

That was my point! Sort of.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, my bad Jordan. It's just... I see "Cameron Diaz" and I get all negative... and then I forget that there is context beyond a single sentence.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I will say that I think men in Hollywood tend to look even more nondescript than the ladies do, for fairnesses sake here. I guess it's because I am coming up with a bunch of leading ladies in my head and while they all vary in levels of personal attractiveness to me, I actually don't think any of them strictly fit the archetype described earlier at all. I'm having a much harder time doing this with men. Do people not care about men?!?!

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:46 (twenty-one years ago)

You know...does the film National Velvet fit into this category at all here? Because I never, ever figured out how anyone would confuse Elizabeth Taylor, at any stage of her life but even as a young teen, with a boy.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I was actually thinking about the men thing... Cause I mean there are a lot of Hollywood men I could rag on too. I thought maybe I was being one-sided.

I do want to say for the record though that, though I don't find Julia Roberts attractive, the real reason she scares me is because I think she's a shitty actor.

There's that [potential] can of worms...

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

male actors are either nondescript or really gross-looking but never ever hot. at least actresses are occasionally hot.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think all male actors are nondescript or gross-looking.

I do think most of the really really good ones are toward the gross-looking end of the spectrum though. Weird...

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I do want to say for the record though that, though I don't find Julia Roberts attractive, the real reason she scares me is because I think she's a shitty actor.

i don't think she's as ugly as everyone insists (that's not a compliment). her grating, shrill personality and smugness are what make her unattractive to me.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

male actors are either nondescript or really gross-looking but never ever hot

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39903000/jpg/_39903017_oscar_johnny.jpg

"i'm going to sleep with you, you, you aaaaaaand...you."

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:54 (twenty-one years ago)

but i also think sarah jessica parker is pretty and everyone here calls her "horseface." i dunno... she reminds me of an old picture of someone's russian grandma. that's cool.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:55 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.geraldpeary.com/interviews/def/depardieu.jpg

"That Mr. Depp is always sleeping with people... Bah! That is not acting."

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

martin, I don't think there are that many ilxors who are going to argue the merits of Julia Roberts as an actress...

anyway I guess that was my point, like 99.9% of male actors are so boring or like actively disgusting. I find that I only discuss the appearances of female actresses because at least there is something to discuss there. And it's not like most male actors are any more talented than most female actresses so I'm not really sure how they get by without anything at all.

Actors have really gone downhill in the modern age though, physically.

xpost I don't find Julia Roberts ugly, though I don't find her pretty. She's more "horseface" than Sarah Jessica Parker is, though (I'm not using that as an insult here, just as an actual description of the physical characteristics of her face, if that makes sense to anyone--I mean SJP doesn't have ginormous teeth and huge flared nostrils for heaven's sake, have people seen horses)

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

sarah jessica parker is super hot.

― peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Sarah Jessica Parker was a lot more attractive when she was playing openly gawky characters. When she started acting like she was the hottest thing on the planet, it started getting silly and the word "horseface" came up. The rich shouldn't flaunt such levels of self-delusion.

Precedent: Barbra Streisand.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think [Julia Roberts is] as ugly as everyone insists (that's not a compliment). her grating, shrill personality and smugness are what make her unattractive to me.

-- hockey family

No doubt... That's primarily what I meant when I said I didn't find her attractive. Although I do think she has waaaay too many teeth.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

And it's not like most male actors are any more talented than most female actresses so I'm not really sure how they get by without anything at all.

I agree (and am also not sure), but I do think that the deck is still stacked toward men when it comes to actually making a career in show business out of looking weird. Not that I think this is an amazing observation, but really... Who is the female Christopher Lloyd? And seriously, he's a tremendously talented actor. There have to be women as odd looking and as talented... But where are the parts written for their "type?"

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:02 (twenty-one years ago)

SJP has a longer than avg face, hence the horse comparisons

― oops (Oops), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:02 (twenty-one years ago)

When she started acting like she was the hottest thing on the planet, it started getting silly and the word "horseface" came up. The rich shouldn't flaunt such levels of self-delusion.

ugly people need to stop thinking they're not ugly. i mean, for reals.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:02 (twenty-one years ago)

http://members.aol.com/bobbyb564/_pics/_female/sarah_j_parker/mainpic01.jpg

http://www.alicia-logic.com/email/Horse%20Face.jpg

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Especially if you include the ones in her vagina.

― sugarpants (sugarpants), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, now that I think of it, the dude who played Mr. Ed was pretty non-descript.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

Uh, that was referring to Julia Roberts' teeth.

xpost, obv.

― sugarpants (sugarpants), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

now, a horse and Julia Roberts

http://www.alicia-logic.com/email/Horse%20Face.jpg

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/owlive/img/mar02/robertsbig032502.jpg

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:04 (twenty-one years ago)

btw don't google "horse" if you have safe search turned off, unless you like looking at 7 pictures of women blowing horses.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

ugly people need to stop thinking they're not ugly. i mean, for reals.

oh, come on. there's a difference between "not thinking you're ugly" and smugly playing sex bomb roles that are way out of your league. Admittedly, female actresses get more shit for such vanity then men, but it IS clueless vanity.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Ooooh ooooh Ally... Do a horse and Courtney Love!

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:06 (twenty-one years ago)

google also turns up:
http://www.equinealley.furtopia.org/horse%20girl%20colored.jpg

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:07 (twenty-one years ago)

smugly playing sex bomb roles that are way out of your league.

so who should be playing sex bomb roles? and what kind of roles should sjp be resigned to? fucking "best friend roles"?

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

a horse and courtney love

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/owlive/img/mar02/robertsbig032502.jpg

http://www.mediacove.com/events/U_Mag/jpg/fashion/courtney-love.jpg

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno if it's the PC in me or what, but I'd never say "out of your league" in the context that Anthony just did.

On the other hand, I do think that certain types shouldn't be cast in certain parts (regardless of acting ability).

I'm not super familiar with Sex in the City, but I wasn't under the impression that SJP's role in it was a "sex bomb role." Is it? Or are we talkin about some other role she played?

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I dunno if it's the PC in me or what, but I'd never say "out of your league" in the context that Anthony just did.

THANK YOU that was really pissing me off.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha ok I seriouusly didn't mean to put in Julia Roberts instead of a horse.

I agree with jbr, who exactly should be playing "sex bomb" roles? I am actually interested to find out your thoughts, Anthony. I don't find Kim Catrall more attractive than SJP, just using examples from the show, but she is playing more of a "sex bomb" than SJP.

xpost no, Martin, I wouldn't strictly class her role as a "sex bomb" role either, I think her character was meant to be the most "normal average city woman" (ha ha ha) that the audience was meant to most identify with, not the "super sexy" role.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

(ps Ally I knew if I did the set up that you would handle the rest in the best way possible. Having not posted or even read ilx in months, I am happy to see that some things have not changed.)

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

(pps well dammit you shouldn't have admitted that it was a mistake cause if I had been drinking liquid when I saw it I would have blown said liquid out of my nose.)

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

http://members.iinet.net.au/~jaherne/alienhost/xenomorph/alienchild.jpg

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

the "you're not a sex bomb, get off it" was WAY more a problem for Streisand (Nuts is the most hysterical example I can think of), though Sarah's strutting around next to Lenny Kravitz in that Gap Ad implies she shows similar promise.

I realize there's quite a gender gap in the frequency of these statements and I don't think that people should be condemned to certain roles, but the word "plausibility" was invented for a reason.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean I gave shit to Tom Cruise for trying to play a fey vampire or an Irish immigrant. Was I shackling him to a life of "stud" roles?

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

streisand was HAWTT in the '60s, yo.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

But why is it implausible that SJP would be a woman who gets lots of dates?

xpost Streisand in the 60s could basically be Jennifer Aniston, physically and she seems to get sexy roles all the time.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I never said SJP was "implausible" in sex and the city.

And Streisand WAS hot in the 60s. It just wasn't until she started directing herself that she felt the need to ANNOUNCE how hot she was.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree nobody should be condemned to certain roles, but I also think that it's not mean or unfair to say that certain people should never be cast in certain roles.

I mean let's face it... theatre and film are like the only places where someone can legitimately be turned down for a job because they are white or black or female or male or fat or thin or whatever.

I just don't agree that SJP isn't in the range of women who plausibly play the role she does on Sex in the City. From what I've seen even, she does it well.

I haven't seen the Gap ad though. However, I find it hard to believe that anybody wouldn't look silly strutting around next to Lenny Kravitz.

xpost Anthony... Okay now I think I see what you're really getting at... In that case, is it okay for someone to announce how hot they are if they really are (by whatever standard) hot?

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:22 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait, I think I get what you mean, you're saying that when someone seems to feel the need to keep pressing the idea that they are super sexy, they become less sexy.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:23 (twenty-one years ago)

right, ally. unchecked self-adoration in an actress is what inspires the straight male section audience to start saying "ahem, but no. horseface."

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Which brings us right back to what Jody said about Julia Roberts a good bit upthread:

her grating, shrill personality and smugness are what make her unattractive to me.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

aside: i almost like jennifer aniston sometimes. she's a nice greek girl from astoria. she went to my high school. her dad's on days of our lives.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

right, ally. unchecked self-adoration in an actress is what inspires the straight male section audience to start saying "ahem, but no. horseface."

So then, how come so many straight guys still thought Madonna was hot after her second album? Is it not the same for female musicians as for female actors?

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:26 (twenty-one years ago)

unchecked self-adoration

hasn't hurt hasselhoff's career!

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't have anything against jennifer aniston per se, other than as an actress she's generally kind of boring. I liked her in Office Space and that's about it; I think she's just an example of someone who is better off as almost a side-character than she is as any type of lead.

xpost it's kind of hard not to consider Madonna hot, come on, look at her boobies, they're amazing.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:28 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, Madonna was still pretty young and hot after the second album, martin m. and her audience has definitely grown gayer over the years (usually a sign you're being admired for your ability to love yourself).

oh yeah, Hassellhoff's career is spectacular. wtf. we post pictures of him in a thong all the time cuz it's HOT?

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah, Hassellhoff's career is spectacular.

do you have any IDEA how much hasselhoff makes? (i mean, i don't, but i'm sure it's on the smoking gun or something.)

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:30 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG ANTHONY YOU JUST WENT DOWN A STARTLING AND SCARY NEW PATH OF GAY PEOPLE DRIVE LIKE THIS.

Anthony you should maybe tell us who is more attractive, we would understand what you're trying to say better?

xpost dude, after that Hooked on a Feeling video, I believe Hasselhoff deserves every penny he makes.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:31 (twenty-one years ago)

do I really have to note that not ALL gay people do whatever? Christ. Ok, fine, this is a generalization but if you are a female actress has an increasing large gay audience and a dwindling straight male audience and yet the clothes are getting skimpier, you are not as attractive as you think.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Because all men only like artists based on their sexual attractiveness.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:34 (twenty-one years ago)

that's what people are complaining about here, isn't it?

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

fabio IS... birdface:

http://www.2dorks.com/video/fabioBird.avi

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:36 (twenty-one years ago)

xxxpost-- where do lesbian audiences fit into all this?

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, Madonna was still pretty young and hot after the second album, martin m

That was not my point. My point was that she started the self-love thing right about there in career. Your previous assertion that self-love = not attractive was being challenged, and you just countered by saying she was "still pretty young and hot" which sounds like your view is shifting again... this time to the oft (and rightly) maligned "women get uglier as they age" stance.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not even sure what you guys are arguing at this point.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

EVERYONE knows that women with WEIRD NOSES who are OVER 30 should just go the fuck home already, can you two just accept that and move on with your lives, jesus christ.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Because all men only like artists based on their sexual attractiveness.

Hm... Never thought about it all that much.

But then my favorite band is They Might Be Giants.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:38 (twenty-one years ago)

jbr asked why people think sjp is ugly. I explained that when actresses get vain they get called "horseface." and I think there's incontrivertable evidence that Streisand is vain. I think sjp is vain so I threw her in there as well.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:39 (twenty-one years ago)

but no one calls Nicole Kidman horseface and I think she seems like a full of herself shrieking banshee from hell. It doesn't seem fair, SJP doesn't seem half as bad as a whole lot of hollywood actresses I can list off the top of my head.

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

male audiences haven't abandoned madonna because she's not 25 anymore, they've abandoned her because she drinks a soy latte and gets a double shottay.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:41 (twenty-one years ago)

OTM

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

B-B-But... NICOLE KIDMAN IS VAIN AS FUCK!

xpost ally yay thank you!

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I think Nicole Kidman is weird as fuck too.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:44 (twenty-one years ago)

For the record, I'm not really arguing anything.

I do think there was a bit more to what was being said re: female actors becoming vain. I mean lip service was paid (I realize there's quite a gender gap in the frequency of these statements), but other than that the statement just seemed kinda chucked out there like:

"So and so is vain and therefore unattractive. As proof, here is one other example. Okay that's it then."

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Well plus she's a horseface.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd call Nicole Kidman an inexplicable freakish Stepford Wife waste-of-space but she's not a horseface.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:46 (twenty-one years ago)

But I don't think SJP looks like a horse either, I am more of a horseface than she is, I mean seriously, like I said earlier, ahve people not seen horses?

― Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I was kinda kidding there.

But, yeah, vanity is the big thing. Judy Davis is still hot last time I checked.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:48 (twenty-one years ago)

j. lo is pretty, dare i say. and her vanity knows no bounds.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:54 (twenty-one years ago)

SJP has a very ugly face. She is drawn and pointy and sticklike and prickly.

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:56 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, stuck up bitch, but yowza:

http://www.tiscali.nl/images/0/5/jennifer1.jpg

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah I don't think SJP is all that horsey in the face. I DO actually get why Anthony thinks she is "miscast" as a sex bomb (in general in ads, etc... not actually in any roles I've seen her play), because on some level I agree with him. I think the reason I have trouble coming out and saying it as directly as he did is because I think that SJP has an exceptional amount of talent in her chosen field, and so far I've not really seen her take on a role in a film that she didn't perform well.

So I respect her for that, and for whatever reason that outweighs any apparent vanity she may have...

It's hella different when you don't have any talent and think you're the bee's knees. Male or female.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:56 (twenty-one years ago)

And yeah... I do think J. Lo is talented.

― martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:57 (twenty-one years ago)

when i want to bring someone down from their self-assembled pedestal, i don't go after their looks -- i go after their (lack of) brains/talent/etc.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:59 (twenty-one years ago)

for example what bothers me about halle berry's colossally huge ego is that she's an atrocious actress.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:02 (twenty-one years ago)

SJP is horsefacey. I didn't fully turn on her until I saw the giant pictures of her looking all "sexy" in the Gap.

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:14 (twenty-one years ago)

The men have spoken. Oogah.

Halle Berry is a horrible actress.

Personally, I haven't been wowed by SJP's talent. I thought she was pleasant in the stuff I saw her in before 1994, but everything since has been pretty yeah whatever. And what little I've seen of Sex And The City I didn't enjoy. But I've seen little.

I don't go after looks either, but if you wanna know why people ARE going after looks, I'll tell ya and I did.

I'm intrigued by the fact that Fabio and Hassellhoff are mentioned as fantastically rich, vain aging hunkos who remain adored. Women are evidently far too kind.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, we are too kind.

― Orbit (Orbit), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:25 (twenty-one years ago)

what's wrong with going after looks. if you are trying to bring someone down, does it really matter how?

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Curious thread.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

and then there's ned.

― hockey family (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Indeed!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Take heed.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:29 (twenty-one years ago)

You weed.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:30 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

http://www.apple.com/trailers/disney/ice_princess.html

from IMDB:

The film follows a brainy ugly duckling (Trachtenberg) who realizes her dream of becoming a champion figure skater with the help of physics, a disgraced coach, three snooty ice princesses, a chorus of stage parents and the hunky boy who drives the Zamboni ice resurfacing machine.

BOOKS R BAD
BOOKS R BAD
BOOKS R BAD

― kingfish (Kingfish), Sunday, 9 January 2005 23:25 (twenty-one years ago)

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