What does it mean to "do windows"?

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I've heard this phrase numerous times, and I've never understood it. Don't laugh.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

it's a drug thing. you're too young to know

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

It's a sex thing. You have to find your Start button first.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

'Scuse me?

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

To clean them, I would imagine, unless you've got a rather peculiar fetish.

― Nemo (JND), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, I've never heard the phrase used when referring to clean windows...

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

to wash them, inside and out. it is quite the pain the ass, very tough to get a streak free shine. therefore, no one wants to "do windows" except the very desperate. or perhaps those with obsessive compulsive disorder.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

It means "I'm still a virgin because I don't have vaginal sex, but you can put it in my butt if you want."

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

― Orbit (Orbit), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I aim to please.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

There used to be an obnoxious Pine Sol ad in which a woman smugly declared that she did not "do windows or frost refrigerators." I always assumed that she didn't clean windows, but maybe she was referring to something even more degrading.

― Nemo (JND), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, the phrase originates in the monumental leaking of Bill Gates sex tapes on the internet a few years back, wherein he was heard to tell his (numerous) sex-partners to "do windows...that's it...DO WINDOWS...HARDER".

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I still don't know what it means..

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

It means to clean windows, literally. It's a metaphor for anything that you don't consider part of your job description.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh. Ok.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

I never knew that, either!

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

It's transparently obvious.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:48 (twenty-one years ago)

WHAT THE HELL ELSE COULD IT MEAN?

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:48 (twenty-one years ago)

OMG THIS "EXPRESSION" MEANS WHAT IT LITERALLY SAYS, I AM SO BAFFLED!!!

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

The metaphor bit, I mean.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

What does "omg" mean? How do you pronounce that? I've never heard it used.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

AHM-gee.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:50 (twenty-one years ago)

wuhtffff.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I love how now the Nowell threads are us pretending we don't know Nowell is Jon and Jon pretending that he doesn't know that we know that Nowell is Jon.

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Jon being Nowell wouldn't make any sense, but maybe that's not the best criterion. I really don't have any trouble believing Nowell is a genuine 15 year old, given some of our 20 year olds.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 19:55 (twenty-one years ago)

See, I wouldn't otherwise believe it, but Jon never answered anyone directly about whether or not he was Nowell, and Nowell never took Nick's bait when he addressed her as Jon in that other thread. (I mean, c'mon, wouldn't she have said, "Who's Jon? What are you talking about?")

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:07 (twenty-one years ago)

(But I also really want it to be true, because then Jon would be the awesomest person ever.)

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:08 (twenty-one years ago)

nowell is a she? i thought it was a he.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Come on people, do you go to the theatre and say, 'That's not really Macbeth, that's an actor!' Suspend a little belief already.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I have trouble believing Nowell isn't either someone taking the piss or a really smart chimpanzee. But I'll play along, whatever.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

For the record, I've always firmly believed that Aja is real and got kinda annoyed when people were still pinning that on Alex.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:14 (twenty-one years ago)

"Who's Jon? What are you talking about?"

Yeah wouldn't the real Nowell go on for ten screen about how we're all picking on her and everyone hates her? She instead avoids all talk regarding her identity. Nick is OTM.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, I think Nowell is Emilymv's now-unborn child time-traveling from 2019.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I like Aja, actually. I think she will grow up to be a pretty neat girl, even though her mom is nuts.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:16 (twenty-one years ago)

i hope my unborn child will understand what "doing windows" is at age 15. no offense, nowell.

― Emilymv (Emilymv), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:19 (twenty-one years ago)

NOWELL IS THE REAL VIKTOR YUSHCHENKO

― TOMBOT, Friday, 19 November 2004 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

The only thing that doesn't make sense, though -- and someone else brought this up, I forget who -- is that for Jon to have accidentally posted as Nowell under his own log-in, he would've had to type out Nowell's name. Which he wouldn't have to do if he was using "her" log-in. And which would make it less plausible for him to just accidentally forget who he was logged in as.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I considered that as well. It's maybe not Jon, but it's not a 15-yr-old girl. There's too much wrong with that. Like her starting threads about how the age of consent should be lowered.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:27 (twenty-one years ago)

At the same time, there's so much white noise, too. Like, this thread, wtf? What would be the point for someone trying to pull one over on us to start a thread like this?

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

That's what I meant about it not making sense (that's one thing I meant, anyway, I'm not sure anyone caught my sly wit with "Jon has more imagination than to pretend to be young and lack social skills"). Jon's question was obviously a parody of Nowell's, and why would you create a persona and then parody it? Why would even JON do that?

I haven't gone all Nero Wolfe on it or anything, and if it turns out Nowell is Kenan or Trayce or J0hn Darnielle is back with a brand new bag, I won't faint away with the vapors. I just haven't seen any reason to assume Nowell isn't Nowell.

(I've also missed most of her presence here, and she had obviously become some kind of running joke/shut-the-fuck-up target before I started reading ILE again.)

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I think there's a huge package of expectation lumped onto anyone under 17 here. No one ever bothers talking about what would or wouldn't be normal or suspicious from a 22 year old, despite the "I'm so old" laments from people who just learned to grow beards. 15 year olds aren't pre-human, they're just slightly more naive and less articulate 18 year olds, and they come in more than one model.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, you haven't been around. Nowell is hysterical, self-obsessed, completely neurotic, thick as a load-bearing wall, and very tiresome.

WHY DOES EVERYONE HATE ME? I MUST START MY TENTH THREAD OF THE DAY ABOUT HOW EVERYONE HATES ME. STOP TALKING ABOUT ME! WHEN YOU SAID I WAS OKAY, YOU REALLY MEANT YOU ARE COMING RIGHT NOW TO KILL ME, DIDN'T YOU?!

It feels kinda like someone yanking everyone's chain just to see how far our sympathy will stretch before we all go, "Oh hush, you."

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:48 (twenty-one years ago)

And so I have decided that from now on , my first response to Nowell will involve teh buttfucking.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I caught at least one of those in a thread revival, I think -- I thought Nowell was Aja at first. Doesn't that pretty much sound like a lot of teenagers, though? Hell, it sounds like a lot of college students, just not many of the ones that post here.

I don't know, I might have a totally different impression once I've seen more of her.

(That is not a request for the Rough Guide to Nowell.)

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 20:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd be interested to know what Maria thought of all this, being fairly together and articulate for a human being, never mind a teenaged one.

― suzy (suzy), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Or Curtis, for that matter. (Which makes the second time this week I've brought up his age, bah.)

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Like Tep said, they come in more than one model.

Doesn't that pretty much sound like a lot of teenagers, though? Hell, it sounds like a lot of college students

Yeah, i know, of course it does, and this is the first thing people always say. I say, boy that kid is an annoying brat, and they say, You've forgotten what it's like to be a teenager! or something equivalent. Thing is, no I haven't. I was a terrible little snot of a teenager, an insufferable 15-year-old, which means that no one suffered me gladly.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, I'm not saying she should be welcomed with open arms! Fuck no. Card her and kick her to the curb. I'm not in my grandparents' living room having cookies and opening presents, I feel no compunction to be polite to someone simply because they're stupid by virtue of their character arc instead of a permanent deficiency. Nowell -- and Aja -- should no more expect people ten years older than them to be interested in catering to their compulsive questions than they would be in those of 10 year olds.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:22 (twenty-one years ago)

compulsion, not compunction. I am making fruitcake.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Cool. I didn't know anyone did that anymore.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think they do, which is why I figured I should -- it's been around so long, you figure it must've been good once, so I found a recipe in one of Steingarten's books and added a bucket of white chocolate to it.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

"Card her and kick her to the curb. I'm not in my grandparents' living room having cookies and opening presents, I feel no compunction to be polite to someone simply because they're stupid by virtue of their character arc instead of a permanent deficiency. Nowell -- and Aja -- should no more expect people ten years older than them to be interested in catering to their compulsive questions than they would be in those of 10 year olds."

This is really starting to upset me.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Seriously...

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Just because I'm fifteen, I'm stupid? Fuck that.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know how to explain this....*sigh*
I really don't like how I'm being treated her. It sounds fucking weird and pathetic, I know, but I am getting sad cuz of it. Really.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:37 (twenty-one years ago)

If you don't like how you are being treated here then why do you post here?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Cuz I want to resolve the problems these people have with me.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Zing!

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

TAKE THAT ALEX IN SF!

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm really, REALLY serious.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Good luck. Half of these people don't even believe you are who say you are and aren't inclined to deal with you on a human level (note: I don't believe who you say you are either.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Why? I'm really, really upset about this. I'm dead serious.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:41 (twenty-one years ago)

How do they know who everyone is?

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

'K, I'm leaving. If Nowell is a real girl, and starts cutting herself just to focus on the pain, THE PAIN, I'm going to feel somehow responsible.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:42 (twenty-one years ago)

"Why? I'm really, really upset about this. I'm dead serious."

Well now matter how "serious" you are, no one else is required to give a shit so you better learn to get over it.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

God, I'm so fucking upset. And I have to leave soon. I mean, all these people who hate me - "n/a", "Tep", "Kenan", "Sanjay McDougal", and "Alex in SF" and whoever the fuck else - I don't wanna make enemies.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Xpost

Fuck you!

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Doing Windows = does anyone know who Mr Brain & Mr Squid are?

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, fucking a. No one cares. You're not required to, but...FUCK.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Dammit, what should I do? This is ruining my day.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:45 (twenty-one years ago)

I have to go in five fucking minutes. PLEASE don't leave me hanging. I'm seriously upset, and I know I can't prove it, but....Dammit, all I can do is tell you. Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck. This is fucking retarded.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:47 (twenty-one years ago)

NOT POST HERE ANY MORE IF WHAT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE YOU HAVEN'T MET AND PROBABLY NEVER WILL SAY IS BOTHERING YOU THAT MUCH.

Then go get mental help, seriously. Esp. if you are really Jon Williams.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Dammit, what should I do? This is ruining my day.

Um, leave and go do something that makes you happy.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I am not "Jon Williams"! Why this is upsetting me, I don't know...I don't fucking need mental help. I just want to be "accepted" on ILX, at least to some degree. By the particular people who were just talking shit about me. Is that so much to ask?

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm gonna go visit my mother, then I'm gonna go home and be bored and upset for the rest of the weekend, partly cuz of ILX.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Cool. I'm gonna go home after work and have a beer and not think about anything anybody said on ILX unless it made me laugh because, really, there are hundreds of more important things to worry about. For example, what to have for dinner.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:51 (twenty-one years ago)

"Is that so much to ask?"

Yes.

"I'm gonna go visit my mother, then I'm gonna go home and be bored and upset for the rest of the weekend, partly cuz of ILX."

No one on ILX is going to lose any sleep about this. The sooner you realize this, the better.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

WHY is it so much to ask?

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:52 (twenty-one years ago)

You didn't have to tell me that you're not gonna lose sleep over this... That just made me even sadder.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Nowell, if you'd paid any fucking attention the other dozen times that someone's patiently explained how you're annoying, things might be different. For one thing, you might not be as annoying.

― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:53 (twenty-one years ago)

(xx-post)Because it is.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck you.

What is so annoying about me? Doesn't anyone like me?

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I got it!

Grilled cheese.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Why are you even responding to me if you don't like me?

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Ok, how do I prove that I am who I say who I am? And if I do that, will you stop rejecting me?

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Grilled *cream* cheese. Try it, for real.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Because you use "I'm 15" as a crutch and a shield.

― I Am Curious (George) (Rock Hardy), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't hate you, Nowell, I just don't care how bored or upset you happen to get or how easily your day is ruined. You're getting the same answers to your questions every time you ask them. They aren't going to change. I don't think anyone cares about your little tantrums.

You aren't disliked because of people thinking you're someone else. You're disliked because you're dislikeable. I provided the comparison up thread -- how much interest do you have in 10 year olds? In 8 year olds? I'm twice your age, for heaven's sake, why would I give a midnight shit about your conversation?

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I never said I don't like you, Nowell. I'm kinda neutral on it. I just think the whole thing is funny.

'Course I never said I liked you either. But what difference does it make really what I think?

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

But I really am 15.
I gotta go now.
I'm still pretty upset.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

No wait... Don't go!

Rats.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Nowell has to go to some clubs now and complain that the twenty- and thirtysomethings are too busy drinking and smoking to play jacks with her.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 21:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Does "midnight" refer to the hour the shit takes place or the color?

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:00 (twenty-one years ago)

The hour, it's that shit when you wake up in the middle of the night going "goddammit, can't this wait?"

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:01 (twenty-one years ago)

for anyone who cares what Mr Brain & Mr Squid are, (males) pull down yr pants and squish your woohoo against a window. mmmmmm...

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I like how J waited until the kids left before telling the punchline on that one.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:03 (twenty-one years ago)

That's horrifying. I'll take breasts pressed against the glass instead, plz.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:04 (twenty-one years ago)

The mmmmmm disturbs me there. Well, it would disturb me anywhere in the post, for that matter.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:05 (twenty-one years ago)

That's nothing... Just hope you don't ever have to see the variant of the moon known as "Pressed Ham and Gravy."

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:07 (twenty-one years ago)

(Hint: "Pressed Ham" is easy with a window. "Gravy" is kind of a timing thing.)

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:08 (twenty-one years ago)

http://musicmoz.org/img/editors/hikaruchan/d7674055h37.jpg

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I am never ordering Moon Over My Hammy again.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Bah! Misuse of album cover by my favorite band!

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Now I'm really upset, and I have to go soon!

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm really, really serious.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

sue me.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Imagine how inflated my post count must get.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Since I can only post one thought at a time.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

gah!

my first year college roommate had a friend that used to love to do the "Pink Dot", or something related to the japanese flag, maybe house of the rising sun (i forget the real name)

anyways, he'd knock on your door, and pull down his pants bend over and spread his cheeks until you'd open the door to a lovely surprise

he also used to pull is dick across his wrist and ask if you wanted to see his new watch

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Sometimes not even a complete one.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

the gah was to pressed ham and gravy

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Huh. We used to call that move the "Brown Eye."

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:11 (twenty-one years ago)

jesus, boys are gross.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I was just thinking "NONE OF MY FRIENDS IN COLLEGE DID ANYTHING LIKE THAT!" and realized all but three or four of my friends in college were chicks.

God bless you, women of the world.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Nobody I knew used the Brown Eye on anyone in college.

I've got younger brothers, yo.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, now that makes sense. A younger brother, I've got. I just missed out on his teen years.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I've got one 4 years younger and one 6 years younger and a sister 2.5 years younger who, bless her heart, often acted like a brother cause well "if you can't beat 'em... Brown Eye 'em."

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:26 (twenty-one years ago)

That "want to see my new watch" thing is cracking me up though. It's a very slow burn. Delayed reaction on the humor, and it just keeps coming in small waves.

Sort of like the 1 liter, 75% cheap vodka screwdriver I consumed in 30 minutes flat my junior year of college.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I can quite believe Nowell is 15. I was just looking up some things I wrote on the internet when I was 15, and I'd post them as proof of genuine 15 year old style only they're a bit embarrassing.

I've never heard of doing windows.

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:30 (twenty-one years ago)

I am afraid where this thread is going to go while I'm candying clementines.

Actually, please come up with dirty readings of "candying clementines."

xpost; I am very, very grateful the only online access I had at 15 was to bulletin board systems which have long since tumbleweeded (tumblewed?). Even my early adventures on Prodigy and America Online are hopefully in the digital dumpster.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah wouldn't the real Nowell go on for ten screen about how we're all picking on her and everyone hates her? She instead avoids all talk regarding her identity. Nick is OTM.

wait, Nowell is a girl????

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:36 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm just glad that no one can now read all the stuff I wrote when I was 13 on the Rachel Stamp mailing list (!)
Thankfully nothing of mine can be found by googling my name. I posted under a pseudonym taken from a Bis song, haha.

x-post

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow. Bis didn't even exist when I was 13.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Come to think of it, I'm not sure they were even born.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:47 (twenty-one years ago)

aw, I miss bis

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I was 14/15 when I started using the Bis name. When I was 13 writing as Mrs_Badcrumble85 !!!

― Cathy (Cathy), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:50 (twenty-one years ago)

By the time those damn kids in Bis were born I was already doing windows.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)

man
old people
on the internet

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm kidding. Actually I'm 15.

Times 2.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.roswell.enmu.edu/images/ronandstudents.jpg

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:54 (twenty-one years ago)

http://test.senioraust.com.au/images/S_findoutmore.jpg

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

1. I never said I didn't like Nowell. I'm with Martin. I just find it all amusing.

2. Why are people assuming Nowell is a boy? Her name is Noel. Although I guess that can be a dude's name, too. But "Nowell" is the phonetic spelling of the way the girl's name is pronounced. Am I right? Or did you all just miss the backstory?

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:55 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.sustainability.dpc.wa.gov.au/CaseStudies/communityinternethour/fig5.gif

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:56 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know, I just never made the connection between "nowell" and "noel"

is she like a kid or something?
or foreign?

I need to know the full nowell story!

also:

http://home.ccil.org/~pr/senior_files/image001.jpg

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:56 (twenty-one years ago)

http://members.aol.com/usatireco/Winklergrad.jpeg

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Beats me... I've seen Noel as a guy's name more often than a girl's, but it's usually pronounced more like "Noll" in that case.

I've never had any reason to think that she's anything other than what she claims to be. The thing I don't get is why she's so hung up on being accepted by the people on ILX.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I was too lazy to photoshop the ILX page onto his screen, sorry

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

but what does she claim???

I am so lost in the nowell story!

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:58 (twenty-one years ago)

My earliest archived appearances on the internet seem to be talking about Zoroastrianism, my favorite Bowie songs, Men Without Hats, and Gevalia coffee. I'm okay with that, but a few years down the road you come to the Buffy the Vampire Slayer flame wars.

Did someone make a new noise dude?

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

3. I liked Caitlin O'Neil better, though.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Just wait until you photoshop for a living...

Oh where did all the fun go?

xpost as far as I can tell she just claims to be a 15 year-old girl.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

nobody MADE me
I just came into being

and actually I would love to photoshop for a living, considering I already spend large portions of my day using photoshop/illustrator/coding html and get paid for none of it

well that's not entirely true, I get paid for my web coding job, but not much.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

also, I had no idea that there was a possibility of trolling for underage girls on ilx!

I thought you were all like the gentleman pictured above.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I am definitely like Fonzie.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

no, above fonzie.
my bad

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm Noel, and I'm 15. I go to high school. I live in a foster home against my will (it's a long, uniteresting, melodramatic story. But I'm just telling you where I live). I used to be more into rap music, but cuz of this older Jewish guy who introduced me into some band called Nirvana, I got into rock music. I currently like a lot of the hipster bands - the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and shit. I'm currently listening to Jane's Addiction's 'Nothing's Shocking'. I like a lot of older music too, like Johnny Cash and songs like 'Louie Louie'.
That's it.
-- Nowell (nowellkolin...), August 23rd, 2004 7:33 PM. (link)

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:04 (twenty-one years ago)

IIRC, her first post to ILX was asking to identify someone in an old photo of Nirvana. Which she started like five threads for.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:06 (twenty-one years ago)

and actually I would love to photoshop for a living, considering I already spend large portions of my day using photoshop/illustrator/coding html and get paid for none of it

That's what everyone says... Then they do it and like, it's not fun any more because you don't get to do the cool shit. Then you go home and say "Man I should do the cool shit in photoshop," but by then you're so fucking sick of sitting in front of a computer that you can't even do the cool shit or update your blog or anything. I mean you don't even want to check your email, and then you start thinking about maybe getting a special license so you can drive a city bus for 8 hours a day and do the cool shit at night, but by the time this plan starts coming into focus you have to go to bed so you'll get enough sleep to be able to get out of bed the next morning to go to work.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

hm.
that's kind of a bummer.
what kind of stuff does real work with photoshop entail, anyway?

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I am actually kidding, although I seriously haven't updated my blog in ages and it bugs hell out of me sometimes.

However, sometimes I do get to do the cool shit at work, and I get paid quite well for it.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I quit having a blog like
when I graduated high school.

now my webpage is just some stupid artsy/pretentious shit

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:10 (twenty-one years ago)

At the moment my gig is mostly XHTML/CSS, XML and some front-end scripting language stuff (based on perl), but when I was actually "using photoshop for real work," I was doing illustration for sites. Basically they were paying me for original artwork and for the right to use it for whatever amount of time or on however many pages or whatever. I'd deliver about half of that stuff in illustrator and half in photoshop depending upon what they needed it for.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:12 (twenty-one years ago)

My website hasn't been redesigned in so long that it's embarrassing how shitty the code is. Like, it's all table-based layouts and 1999-style coding. Bah.

I have a redesign done, but none of it's coded... See, the one thing I wasn't kidding about up there was that it's hard to motivate yourself to do anything on a computer at home after you sit in front of one all day at work.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:13 (twenty-one years ago)

frontend is totally my forté

I am not a fan of most backend things. Scripting makes me gag, usually.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

"The thing I don't get is why she's so hung up on being accepted by the people on ILX."

Why shouldn't I? After everything all these people have said about me, I just feel the need to resolve it. And I want to be able to post on ILX without being ridiculed. Ugh.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Even if you haven't updated it in a while, your site is really nice.

I'm always jealous of people who go beyond the whole minimalist thing I've pidgeonholed myself into.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey Nowell, do you like olden men?
How about drugs?
Alcohol?

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

"Olden" men?

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:17 (twenty-one years ago)

older
ha.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:18 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I don't. Why?

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:18 (twenty-one years ago)

just wondering.
I need to get a feel for the real nowell, since my assumptions were so off-base.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

How is asking me if I like older men going to get you a "feel" for the "real" me?

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:20 (twenty-one years ago)

What were your assumptions? Honestly, I'm just a regular person.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

gah, martin, you're speaking my pain as if you're inside my head

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:22 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, I'm going very very soon. I love you all.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

To some extent.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm just being pervy.
You're a bit defensive.

and I thought you were a boy from like scandanavia or something.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Even if you haven't updated it in a while, your site is really nice.

Hey thanks... Everyone feels pigeonholed to some extent I think. I mean, I've lamented that I have a lot of trouble breaking out of my cartoonish style in spite of the fact that it pretty much is my personality as a graphic design.

That site just feels so old to me though... cause there are newer comics I need to finish and get up there, and the blog has been static since may, etc. You know how it is...

I'm also adding music to the site at some point. Dunno when that will happen though.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Xpost
I know you were being pervy. And Mr. martin m., don't think I'm silly. I'm not! Just young.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Some insteresting people who posted to ILX before their 18th birthdays:

Daniel_Rf
Tim Finney
Andrew
Curt1sssss
Maria
Melissa W

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I am probably forgetting (or don't know) some.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:26 (twenty-one years ago)

After everything all these people have said about me, I just feel the need to resolve it. And I want to be able to post on ILX without being ridiculed. Ugh.

For the record... I've not said much about you at all.

Also, to not be ridiculed one must first learn how to not be ridiculous, no?

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Some insteresting people who posted to ILX before their 18th birthdays:

C'mon, that's not fair... I'd say Aja qualifies as "interesting."

Dante on the other hand is a scrub.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Right on.
Well, see ya later. I'll try not to let this ILX shit get to me, no matter how bad it pisses me off. I hope it'll all be better next week. Bye. No hard feelings. Blah blah blah..

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:28 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.swissinfo.org/xobix_media/images/sri/2003/sriimg20031027_4381210_0.jpg
"Wait, Nowell is a girl??"

"Jeepers!"

"I think my teeth fell out!"

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Whatever. Ok, bye for now. For real this time.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

One of these days Noel is going to leave for and then we all won't care.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck you.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Odd thread.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

leave for good, ahem

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, Aja, of course! Yes.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Fuck you.
I'm still mad. But I have to go.

― Nowell (Nowell), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:30 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/12/24/samples.jpg
"Oh Martha, this shit's getting nasty!"

"I know! Kids these days!"

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Even if you haven't updated it in a while, your site is really nice.

What site? Can I see?

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:31 (twenty-one years ago)

it's in his profile
you know
the website part of it some people use
I notice that you've even used it

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:33 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm having trouble finding more old people using computer pictures
damnit google why are all your images broken!

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:35 (twenty-one years ago)

When Scottish people phone in sick they say they're nowell

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

oh nevermind

http://www.go60.com/seniorsatcomputer.jpg
"Would you look at that post? Do these people think they're funny?"

"I don't know, Larry. I just don't know."

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:36 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.cyber-seniors.ch/data/dataimages/upload/photocyber8.jpg
"It's just got too many gosh durn buttons!"

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:38 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.seniorsnetwork.co.uk/images/jimcan.jpg
"Wow, this is a really great deal on refinancing my home!"

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:38 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.seton.net/Wellness/GoodHealthforSeniors/img/200couplewithcomputer.jpg
"How does she fit the whole thing in her mouth like that?"

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:40 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.wcpl.lib.oh.us/images/senior_internet.jpg
"Oh shoot, those kids on ILX are making fun of me again!"

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Did anyone ever see that video that was going around for a while of a woman shitting a whole fish head first?

For some reason I was just reminded of that.

― Kenan (kenan), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought it meant to create shop window displays.

― youn, Friday, 19 November 2004 23:47 (twenty-one years ago)

trigonalmayhem is my new fave poster.

btw, where's the pix of the haircut!?

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm kinda glad I didn't see that shitting fish thing. This way I can't be reminded of it.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Odd thread.

Man I hate when Ned does that. It's kinda creepy isn't it?

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Odd post.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Trigofuckwad is why I don't like college kids, either.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:50 (twenty-one years ago)

trigonalmayhem is my new fave poster.

http://www.concilium.de/assets/images/autogen/a_Football_Referee.jpg

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Cut it out, Ned, dude. Yer totally wiggin me out dude. Fuck.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Trigofuckwad is why I don't like college kids, either.

If I didn't already know he was my age, I'd swear Tep was my age just cause of how crotchety he gets.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Trigofuckwad is why I don't like college kids, either.

http://www.halhigdon.com/rundogsrun/dogart/cry.jpg

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought Tep was female.

― Rockist_Scientist (rockist_scientist), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.brooklyngirl.com/temp/ryan_waaaaaaa.jpg

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Hrm.. I was gonna check out your site mr. trigonal... Only it doesn't work in Firefox.

Tsk...

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:55 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, I'm not a stickler for compliance : (
one of these days I'll fix that.
maybe.

is it just the iframe, or everything?

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:55 (twenty-one years ago)

my older designs were tested across all the browsers of the day, but I got lazy

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:55 (twenty-one years ago)

If I didn't already know he was my age, I'd swear Tep was my age just cause of how crotchety he gets.

I know, when I'm 40 I'll hate people the age I am now! It's a combination of overexposure through ILX and college town, and the fact that barely post-teens are louder about themselves than thirtysomethings are. I may not see it that way in ten, twenty years.

― Tep (ktepi), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:56 (twenty-one years ago)

If ya code with standards, you don't have to test in every browser...

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure what you're parcticular beef with me is (nor do I particularly care), but rest assured I'm annoyed as fuck the average college student.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:58 (twenty-one years ago)

(I am looking at your site now with IE. Sadly I keep that piece of shit browser on my machine cause you always have to know how 85% of the market is gonna see your site. Nevermind that 85% of the market are ignorant morons.)

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:58 (twenty-one years ago)

I know, when I'm 40 I'll hate people the age I am now!

Yeah I kind of aspire to the same thing. When I'm 40 I wanna hate thirtysomethings. That, and I want to be a better guitarist than I am now.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 19 November 2004 23:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I know : (

We're really strict about standards at work (I work on the university website) and compliance and acessibility, etc., but it's one of those things where I do feel a little burned out and don't want to bother.

I'm sure it's some very minor little snag, but I'm too lazy to hunt it down considering I hardly ever touch my dumb website anymore.
I mostly use my domain to host stupid images (as seen in so many ilx threads!)

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:00 (twenty-one years ago)

You're just annoying, trig -- right now, anyway. I don't think I've seen you post before. It's not a character assassination. It would have made more sense for me to have said "the way trigonalmayhem is acting like a hyperactive puppy chasing something shiny reminds me of many of the things I can't stand about people his age."

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:01 (twenty-one years ago)

also, when I reformatted my HD last I was too lazy to reinstall firefox.

Buh.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:02 (twenty-one years ago)

what, you don't have manic days sometimes, tep?

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Usually they wind up with me cooking or working more, but sure -- but I can only judge by what I see. I take back the fuckwad remark, though, there was no real reason for that.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, you probably know the iframe thing isn't supported in general, but the main page in your frameset there is a document with no <html> and <head> tags. Also, you got a table that opens and never gets closed, and you're closing a table row before the table column in it...

Those are the ones that stick out on a quick glance.

I totally know what it's like to not want to bother though.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Sigh. Ever had an actual clinically diagnosed manic day?

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:10 (twenty-one years ago)

THOSE usually end up with me cooking more, too.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

man
I should really stop using notepad and get a text editor with some markup colouring.
that would at least help me close my tags, ha.

thanks for pointing those out, though.
I'm a lazy bastard about the html and head tags. It doesn't help that every site at my university has SSIs for the header and footer, so I never have to worry about any of that.

Maybe I'll take the 2 minutes to dig up the page and fix those.
Maybe.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

No, I can only imagine that those suck even more, though.

Although I refuse to put any faith in modern psychology/psychiatry.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah.... Cooking for your 12 apostles and preparing to be crucified.

Or deciding you're going to win Iron Chef even though you're not on the show and even if you were in the same city it's a fucking rerun but it doesn't matter because you think you're a prophet and indestructible and fuck of course I quit taking the medication because it made me feel dead and this is who I really am!

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

that was an xpost to tep

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Man, I love Iron Chef.

The real one, not that imposter crap with Bill Shatner.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:15 (twenty-one years ago)

That's pretty much ... well, no, not quite like that. I don't want to get into the whole thing, but more than once I ended up going out at three in the morning to get eggs because I had to make a cake right that very instant, or what have you. Not that that kind of manic day is anything to complain about much, of course.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Although I refuse to put any faith in modern psychology/psychiatry.

That statement officially gets you my Asshat of the Day award.

The fact that I'm even around to give an Asshat award every day is a testament to modern psychiatry and psychology. And people wonder why I get slightly annoyed by colloquial use of the term "Manic Depressive..."

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't worry though... I sometimes award myself Asshat of the Day.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not sure it's quite the same thing, but sometimes I just like
HAVE
to take a walk in the middle of the night.
Ususally several miles through parts of town I've never been to.

also, I'm not saying that there aren't legitimate ailments and good doctors in the field, I'm just a little turned off by the modern trend of overprescribing medications to a lot of people who don't need them.

I'm mainly afraid if I did ever go to one I'd get one of the shitty ones who'd insist I go on medication without trying to figure out if there was anything else that could be done.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:19 (twenty-one years ago)

and yeah, I partake in much asshatery on a daily basis.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Tri, your mom never warned you about the baby and the bathwater thing, did she?

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I have no idea what you're talking about.
My mother offered very little sound advice to me growing up, though.
So no.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:24 (twenty-one years ago)

If by "legitimate ailment" you mean "chronic mental illness," then right on brother, I think you got my point.

I dunno about the overprescribing thing... For the most part shit like Prozac is harmless. The only net bad result is that people who really need it wind up getting taken less seriously because "So what Johnny's on Prozac... Everybody's on Prozac."

But whatever... This is one of those things I don't like getting too talky about on a regular basis on account of sometimes it really bugs me. (And ha, if you look closely you'll notice that I'm removing myself from a potentially stressful and unneccessary situation which is something most people in therapy eventually train themselves to do to improve their lives.)

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Also there's this fucking 15 minute long Wilco song in my headphones now, and I'm trying to remember why I haven't skipped past it yet cause it sucks.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I do think psych drugs are overprescribed, but that doesn't mean they aren't helpful and life-changing to many, many people
My friend has social anxiety and moderate OCD (he picks the skin off around his fingernails). A few years ago, he went to a psychiatrist for help. The doctor talked to him for about 5 minutes, prescribed him drugs, and said "NEXT!". After about a year or so, the side effects (dizzy spells and generally feeling drugged up/not himself), he decided to stop taking them. Didn't even go cold turkey, yet still experience very unpleasant withdrawal symptoms. These are serious drugs, and they should be treated as such.
The brain is such a finely balance piece of equipment, and human knowledge of it is so limited, that meddling with its chemicals should only be done after other options are exhausted.

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:33 (twenty-one years ago)

god my brain is mush right about now. (so much so that I typed "my brain is much..." at first)

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh I agree, and further I don't think there is anything really that should be treated with drugs alone (like the prescribe and call for the next patient method you mention). However, a lot of times drugs are required to get the person into a state of mind where therapy can do any good at all. Cause one thing the brain does well, even when it's wired funny, is adapt. Most of the time that means the people suffering from a problem, even when the may have an idea that there's a problem, figure out ways to lie to themselves about its severity and completely miss or misjudge how it's actually affecting their lives.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:39 (twenty-one years ago)

And for that matter, if you live with OCD or ADD or Bipolar or Unipolar disorder, you really get used to it even as it's making your life miserable. Like, before I finally got good treatment and changed my outlook re: needing and accepting treatment, it was hard for me to imagine what life would be like not being strung tighter than a fucking banjo all the time. I'm still getting used to it even, and I've had the thing "under control" (to different degrees) with meds, therapy and life changes for years now.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think there is anything really that should be treated with drugs alone

Exactly.

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, I think I pretty much agree with everything you both just said.

I might not have articulated it well enough, but that's essentially the gist of what I believe.

― trigonalmayhem (trigonalmayhem), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll out myself as a drugs-alone patient, but only because I don't think my situation is representative, and I'm not advocating it as a default treatment approach. I even put myself in therapy because of that, and wound up not having anything to talk about, and eventually we just decided we'd said all there was to say about it. And I have the periodic appointments to check in, obviously, three times a year.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

(Maybe that's not strictly "drugs alone." But I certainly don't think I qualify as "in therapy," either.)

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:47 (twenty-one years ago)

But you did try therapy, at least. If it didn't work for you, then it didn't work. All that matters is you get the best results with the least amoung of negative side effects.

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:49 (twenty-one years ago)

That's how I see it, yeah, I was just putting it out there. I agree with what y'all have said as far as what the initial approach should be, the perspective patient and doctor should start from. From there, you whittle.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I usually say that drugs should be a last resort, but Martin's right: oftentimes they're needed as a first step, in order to make one receptive to conventional therapy.

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Exactly... And the thing is if you're agreeable to therapy then you're really never "out" of it. I mean if something in your life is really fucking with your emotions (and let's face it that happens to everyone, not just the ones on mood stabilizers or antidepressants), then hey, go see your therapist every other week for a few months if it helps. When you're handling things better, go back to the 3 times a year thing.

The best therapists I've dealt with will sometimes say stuff like "It really seems like you're doing well... It's up to you if you want to come back next week or in two months or whenever you think you need it."

Hell, the most common thing I think the therapy is great for (even though I'm kind of done with this particular issue myself) is adjusting someone to the idea that they've gotta take pills every day to be normal. Cause jesus that's a really hard thing to swallow and it just does not sound like your life is gonna get better because of it.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

PS I love these threads that are nothing but 4 or 5 huge derails in a row.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Okay, now I feel bad for being flippant earlier. :-(

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha ha.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned you were flippant before we turned all serious and shit.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Preflipping. Anyway, the Meatmen are making me feel happy! (In a way.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 20 November 2004 00:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I am listening to Psychopharmacology though weirdly it is not consciously because of this discussion. I just had an overwhelming urge to hear "Get Out of My Head" and decided to listen to the whole album.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Either ILE is really prone to these multi-derails lately (the infamous fleshlight thread that actually avoided the couple of derails I was sure it would take and still took a lot), or I'm just reading a disproportionate amount of them.

So anyway yeah, fruitcake. It came out pretty good!

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never eaten fruitcake. Are there specific fruits that are always in it, or can it vary?

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Num! Tep, just create a book so I can catch up with all the recipes. (Oh, I keep meaning to write you and I will, I shall help cheer up yer spirits after that book cancellation thing you got shafted with.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

It can vary, but lemon and cherries are pretty standard, I think (both of them candied). This one's got orange, citron, and pineapple, too -- mostly pineapple -- and a small amount of walnuts and a lot of white chocolate. I'm a fruitcake novice; never liked the ones I tried, so didn't try many. We'll see how this one is next week after it's mingled a bit more and soaked up some booze.

xpost; I'm doing another cookbook for this Christmas called How I Done What I Did, so fear not

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:15 (twenty-one years ago)

*merry*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I get jealous of you Tep because the knowledge I have with which I could compile a book for others is not on a subject so interesting and enticing to most folks.

I mean I personally think the difference between hard-clipping and soft-clipping devices is pretty damned cool, and Simple Distortion and Overdrive Pedals for Daily Rocking would make a great first chapter before I get into more complex effects like phasers and whatnot, but still...

Everybody eats. That's the thing. That's where you really made a wise business model early on.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Indeed. And so often I lack the patience to properly cook! Oh well.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Ha, except I don't do it for money, is the problem. And I think I'd hate to do so -- I resisted the urge to make my protagonist in my story at the moment a writer, so I made him a chef instead, and all he can think about is how much he hates the restaurant business.

Cooking costs me money, if anything (what is this "if"?) -- I spent $40 on sheep's milk butter today, half-impulsively and half-accidentally.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:25 (twenty-one years ago)

And so often I lack the patience to properly cook!

But see, that's what Tep is banking on. Then his book swoops down to help, and he's a hero!

I can only help those who already know how to solder but lack the patience to properly rock!

My hobby costs money too... The only way I earn any on it is to buy vintage non-working pedals on ebay, restore them to working order and turn around and resell them. Problem is 90% of the time I'm like "Holy shit that sounds cool! Must... own... Yes I believe I can justify owning 26 phasers just as easily as I justified owning 25..."

I need to start buying and fixing more vintage amps cause the profit margins on those are much bigger and because I am far less likely to talk myself out of selling an item that will take up a lot more space in the studio or the workshop.

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

(xpost) Bold! I've mentioned my friend's garden before -- it helps with providing things like peppers and basil even during the quiet months like now.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:29 (twenty-one years ago)

Someday I will actually produce a small run of original effects and attempt to sell them, probably on ebay, to see if I can create a small brand recognition. There are a lot of little one-person outfits doing that kind of thing. Problem is it's a lot like the entertainment business... You've got to have a hit. One recognized musician decides your pedal is the shit and says it publicly, somebody sees one of your pedals on Joe Rockstar's pedalboard, or somehow a buzz gets started about it, and then you're set to make a little extra you can almost depend on for a bit. Before that, you're just another guy making stompboxes in the garage even if you have a degree in engineering...

― martin m. (mushrush), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:33 (twenty-one years ago)

That sounds a lot like writing, only less formalized, I guess -- or how I imagine a lot of the restaurant business works.

― Tep (ktepi), Saturday, 20 November 2004 01:42 (twenty-one years ago)

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