Old Boy

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Did anyone see it? I have a feeling that I just missed it in SF and would very much like to know what people think.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 16:36 (twenty years ago)

The Korean film?

― Michael White (Hereward), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 16:44 (twenty years ago)

Nasty, but still worth a look. fucking horrible story though, and you want to watch it sober, becasue the subtitles are hard to see and the story complex.

― lukey (Lukey G), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 16:47 (twenty years ago)

yes, michael.

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 16:47 (twenty years ago)

theres this one scene where the hero taeks on a roomful of people armed with clubs and knifes and stuff, and all hes got is a hammer, and he wins. its all filmed in one shot and lasts about five minutes. pretty much the best action scene ive seen the last few years.

tthe rest of the film is very flashy as well, gritty and funny. very VERY darkly funny. the final plot twist is a bit daft tho.

― :| (....), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 17:13 (twenty years ago)

my friend loved this movie

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 17:14 (twenty years ago)

do we trust his judgement?

― adam... (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 17:21 (twenty years ago)

pretty much, but he can be weirdly unpredictable sometimes!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 1 December 2004 18:22 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

got it on DVD but haven't seen it yet.

― .ada.m. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 20 January 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

you son-of-a-bitch

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 20 January 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

okay then!

― .ada.m. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 20 January 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

lucky SOB, rather

it's playing in L.A. in a month or so. I suppose I'll have to wait until then, for I'm too lazy to order it from HK

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 20 January 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

I want to see Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance one of these days

― Riot Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 20 January 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

I got mine on Ebay for relatively cheap.

I am waiting for Goodbye Dragon Inn, too.

― .ada.m. (nordicskilla), Thursday, 20 January 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

so...?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 21 January 2005 07:38 (twenty years ago)

Saw this at the cinema a few months ago... The film is *very* intense and well-made, but it suffers a bit from the typical thriller syndrome (in this case it's not a question of "whodunit" byt "whydunit"): once the mystery is revealed, it falls kinda flat - the first half is better than the second. Still, one of the best thrillers/action films of the recent years. Also, it had one particular scene (showing an unconventional way to use a hammer) which made even this weary, seen-it-all cinema-goer cover his eyes.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 21 January 2005 08:02 (twenty years ago)

STILL NOT SEEN IT

― .ada.m. (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 January 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

What're you waiting for?

― Michael White (Hereward), Friday, 21 January 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

some free time!

― .ada.m. (nordicskilla), Friday, 21 January 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

My local L.A. video store (20/20 on LaBrea and Sunset) has this movie on a great looking import DVD - I rented it last week. Unbelievable set-up in the first hour, but, as has been mentioned, it starts to get too confusing and desparate with the plot twists.
Some of the most disturbing images I have ever seen (in the sushi shop; the aformentioned hammer). Definitely worth a look. I somehow doubt that this will end up being one of those Asian movies that Hollywood remakes with Tom Cruise in the lead!

― Chuckling at the Tomkat's Marquee (Ben Boyer), Friday, 21 January 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

I think the rights were bought up some time ago man.

Though I'm sure certain scenes will be toned down a fair bit.

― Mil (Mil), Friday, 21 January 2005 23:48 (twenty years ago)

one of those Asian movies that Hollywood remakes with Tom Cruise in the lead!

...and either Philip Seymour Hoffman or Jason Lee as his best mate from the police station at the beginning, right?

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Saturday, 22 January 2005 00:39 (twenty years ago)

Haha, apparently you didn't know that a Hollywood remake is already in the makes, with plans of Nicholas Cage starring (he's told himself he's interested)! I wonder how much they'll have to tone down the violence and, you know, the other thing... (Don't want to spoil the plot.)

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 23 January 2005 14:17 (twenty years ago)

Saw it last night, pretty much loved it.

― .ada.m. (nordicskilla), Sunday, 23 January 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

i loved it and can't wait to see it in a theatre. sympathy for mr. venegeance is great as well--maybe a little more disturbing (because there's a kid involved) but more humor to break it up.

― dan (dan), Monday, 24 January 2005 05:59 (twenty years ago)

two weeks pass...

so good. I'm not surprised it's being remade, but i can't believe hollywood will be willing to touch the big plot twist - and the whole flick kind of hinges on that...

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Sunday, 13 February 2005 17:30 (twenty years ago)

I'd say they have to touch it, otherwise it would be impossible to explain what happens to the dude in the beginning.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 13 February 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

Excellent man, the mag I covered it for got the UK poster quote.

― C-Man (C-Man), Sunday, 13 February 2005 18:37 (twenty years ago)

It's coming out on Region II DVD on February 28th.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Sunday, 13 February 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

It's #1 on my Netflix queue!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 13 February 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

It's excellent.

― C-Man (C-Man), Sunday, 13 February 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

it's available for 5 bucks on dvd in chinatown here!

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Monday, 14 February 2005 02:58 (twenty years ago)

three weeks pass...

Aha! Found the thread.

Excellent excellent film.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WARNING! WARNING! SPOILERS FROM HERE ON! :

Apparently you are supposed to feel sorry for the bad guy in the film and that's why Oh-Daesu mutilates himself towards the end. Personally I thought his change of heart was kind of OTT and still didn't have much sympathy for the bad guy.

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 12:08 (twenty years ago)

this film made me worry about what i think about films & 'morality'

it looks great tho! so many images burned into yr brain.

― pete b. (pete b.), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 12:58 (twenty years ago)

we saw it again

― just adam (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:26 (twenty years ago)

i liked the opening and the long sideways fight scene but the rest was a bit much

― jones (actual), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:44 (twenty years ago)

― just adam (nordicskilla), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:45 (twenty years ago)

also it bugged me that the guy didn't instantly recognize the name of his school

― jones (actual), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:48 (twenty years ago)

I really really liked it right up until the point where the revelation about Oh Daesu has actually DONE comes out. Theh it gets pretty impossible to take the thing seriously (esp. since and this may be some weird cultural thing--like in Korea blabbing about something which is ACTUALLY true = murdering villages of children or something--what he's actually done is so relatively minor.) And the "bad" guy is way way too young to be 45/46 or so which was really distracting and annoying once you find out everything. I guess it's about 3/4s really great and 1/4 really irritating.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:57 (twenty years ago)

And then off course the big spoiler thing is crazy because the whole movie seems like the director is trying his own particular kink by the end.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 14 March 2005 23:59 (twenty years ago)

To each his own.

― just adam (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 00:00 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha perv-o.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 00:02 (twenty years ago)

BUT that sequence with the hammer and the long hallway is just fucking ridiculously great.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

i just watched this tonight. the ending is a bit fucked up, he got his brain wiped by hypnosis so he could carry on an affair with his daughter? wtf?

― zappi (joni), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

i'm being very careful not to read this thread since i don't want any spoilers, but does anyone know when this is getting a us release???

― dave k, Tuesday, 15 March 2005 00:07 (twenty years ago)

Supposedly it will be out on DVD sometime soonish.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 00:08 (twenty years ago)

Admit it, you would do the same damn thing.

xxpost

― just adam (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 00:08 (twenty years ago)

I'm gonna tell your brother you said that haha

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 00:12 (twenty years ago)

ewww

― just adam (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 00:18 (twenty years ago)

three weeks pass...

the ages didn't match up for father/daughter either - she was 17 when they met (bad guy says he raised her from age 3, which means she was two when her father disappeared), but he'd already seen her on TV during his captivity - would there be any chance that a woman could become a sushi chef at 16 in Korea?

Really not impressed at all. The hallway fight scene was a letdown as was the octopus-eating scene. Too many convolutions and weird things in the backstory (Alex in SF OTM - 'I have to punish your entire family for spreading rumors that I was sleeping with my sister, even though I was sleeping with my sister and uh...").

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 11 April 2005 02:12 (twenty years ago)

Old Boy was visually pretty great. I'm really looking forward to Sympathy for Lady Vengence (by the same director) set to come out sometime this year.

― slurp, Monday, 11 April 2005 06:36 (twenty years ago)

Watched it again - what a cool film!

Mido won a "Youngest Sushi Chef" Award so I guess the ages do match up.

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 11 April 2005 09:53 (twenty years ago)

soooooooooooooooooo good.

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 17 April 2005 11:45 (twenty years ago)

btw some of the complaints about this movie are totally ridiculous! the guy who plays woo-jin lee (the villain) is 28 years old in real life -- the decision to cast a very young looking person in that role was obviously intentional. in oldboy, age and appearance are metaphors for how much responsibility one is willing to take for the sins they've committed in their lifetime. when dae-su oh's in captivity he makes a list of all the people he's wronged and says something to the effect of "i thought i lived the life of an average person, but i've sinned too much" -- he's got fifteen years to think about this stuff and consequently comes out looking like he's been through hell and back (cf. the painting of the wrinkled old man on his cell wall). plus there's scenes where he's bleeding out of his head for no apparent reason, he's a total mess.

woo-jin lee, on the other hand, is utterly immaculate. it's like he's been frozen in amber since his sister's death. he's strikingly youthful (hello 'evergreen'), well-groomed (how many times do we see him in the shower!) and well-dressed (remember the end scene where he shoots his bodyguard dude in the head then immediately checks his suit for blood and washes his hands in the bath). his pristineness is an extension of the fact that he pathologically refuses the carriage of any of his own sins (his constructed vendetta against dae su oh isn't a cultural thing, its a major tipoff to how completely fucking bananas he is! -- "your tongue got my sister pregnant" -- rrrrrriiight). i also think there's a correlation between his 'clean' lifestyle and his precarious health. the film presents the animal messiness that results from full acknowledgement and total unvarnished self-awareness as a heightened state of aliveness; woo-jin lee has none of the former, so it makes sense that he lives his life one step away from death.

― mark p (Mark P), Sunday, 17 April 2005 12:38 (twenty years ago)

omg f'in amazin. really, some of the self-mutilating violence at the end and MINI-SPOILER - that octopus-eating thing in the sushi place was just UNWATCHABLE DISGUSTING EWWWW (how was that appetizing scene _filmed_ i wanna know? hm?!), but it was just fantastic overall. has anyone seen rain looking more atmospheric than during some of those beginning scenes when he's in jail? even the calendar motif, a temporal technique that's _so_ old and overused, was somehow made to lool inventive and fresh. and am i alone in thinkin woo-jin was HOTT??

also, mark p OTM. i found the 2nd half just as strong, and the final "revelation" to be really poignant and moving, and even believabe, not something that "can't be taken seriously." but maybe 'coz im familiar w/ a culture that is all about honor and self-respect.? ..perhaps Western audiences can't digest something so self-denigrating or self-punishing, as concerns of destroying one's reputation in an individualistic society aren't as important as a collectivist Asian one

even in the news from yesterday there was an account of a Japanese man who set himself on fire outside the Chinese consulate to protest against the Chinese protesters (who havent stopped, according to the news). the concept of self and honor are vastly different between the two civilizations. all this is also why (another SPOILER) i was really moved by that last shot of the sister, right before she was (voluntarily, remember) being let go off the bridge, saying that she had "no regrets" about their love.

for her to own it like that, in a society where conformity and group demands usually take precedence over individualistic "privileges" like romantic love, that was really powerful to me. and proved to me that it was real, as she died for it (and woo-jin woo-jinned for it)

― Vic in Alderaan (Vic), Sunday, 17 April 2005 15:36 (twenty years ago)

http://purifyingflames.blogspot.com/2005/03/acceptable-racist.html

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 00:55 (twenty years ago)

Haha sometimes it is hard to believe the STAR of Myra Breckenridge would have the gall to criticize other FILMS for being crappy/exploitative/whatever but there it is in black and white.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 03:39 (twenty years ago)

That said, I still can't agree with Mark or Vic (or Adam.) I realize that all these choices are intentional! That fact doesn't make them any less stupid, annoying or distracting.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 03:44 (twenty years ago)

i found a dvd bootleg of this in chinatown yesterday, i'm pretty happy. also, 2046!

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 12:22 (twenty years ago)

Milo, how could the octopus scene be a letdown?! Disturbing as shit, yes. But a let down?

― Waking Up Onstage at Jumbo's (Bent Over at the Arclight), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

how was that appetizing scene _filmed_ i wanna know? hm?!)

NO CGI, it was a real live octopus but he didn't actually eat it.

― European Samuel Glickstein (nordicskilla), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

It was a letdown because it wasn't disturbing. Every single review was like "OMG HE EATS LIVE OCTOPUS" so I expected it to scar me for life. Instead it's 20 seconds, a wiggling tentacle or two and done.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Wednesday, 20 April 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)

You read the review before you saw the movie - silly boy.

― dog latin (dog latin), Thursday, 21 April 2005 08:22 (twenty years ago)

Plus also - what else were you expecting other than someone eating a live octopus??

― dog latin (dog latin), Thursday, 21 April 2005 08:23 (twenty years ago)

six months pass...

There's a Bollywood remake in the works.

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Saturday, 29 October 2005 19:39 (nineteen years ago)

OLD BOY TAKE A LOOK AT MY LIFE I'M A LOT LIKE YOU

― s1ocki (slutsky), Saturday, 29 October 2005 21:20 (nineteen years ago)

That's just odd.
Watched this with the girl this afternoon. Great! Dumb in places, but a fun if morbid film. Looking forward to seeing J.S.A. tonight.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 29 October 2005 21:20 (nineteen years ago)

produced and directed by sanjay gupta

The CNN guy?!

― I do feel guilty for getting any perverse amusement out of it (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 29 October 2005 21:24 (nineteen years ago)

A Bollywood remake? That's probably the funniest thing I've read in a loooooooong time. I can actually already imagine them in that scene where he uses his hammer to fight 20 people breaking into some song, dancing around and then going back to their fight. (Don't get me wrong, I like me a Bollywood movie once in a while, but this thought just popped up).

BTW, some people said it upthread, but I have to repeat :
IF YOU LIKED OLD BOY, GO GET SYMPATHY FOR MR. VENGEANCE, it's like so much a better movie (and its got even more traumatising scenes, ugh).

― Jibé, Saturday, 29 October 2005 21:59 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I think Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance is much, much, much better than Oldboy or Lady Vengeance, which each have their own merits, but, in my mind, don't justify their nastiness.

Has anyone seen Three...Extremes yet? I'm going to see it soon, but I'm not sure I expect very much.

― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 30 October 2005 03:05 (nineteen years ago)

I'm going to see it this week. Excited!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Sunday, 30 October 2005 04:00 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe I'm horribly jaded, but nothing in Old Boy bothered me. Oh, wow, he's eating a live octopus, yada yada yada blah blah blah. (in comparison, after 45mins or so of Ichi The Killer, I will never even attempt to watch a Miike film again)

― Are You Nomar? (miloaukerman), Sunday, 30 October 2005 06:13 (nineteen years ago)

Lady Vengeance has already come out COL1N B? Wish it reaches quickly my place. What is Three...Extremes btw?

I do agree that there wasn't much to be bothered about in Old Boy, and it certainly wasn't the octopus scene that was the worst. I've got to agree with you on the fact that Miike films are very ...um bothering. The first few minutes of Dead or Alive I were quite horrible.

― Jibé, Sunday, 30 October 2005 09:11 (nineteen years ago)

For me, at least, what makes Old Boy such a great watch isn't that specific moments bother me (I mean sure, the first time, the teeth scene and the tongue scene both made me wince) but rather that the nature of the two character's revenge is so unflinchingly brutal. That in and of itself is more shocking than any one scene in the movie.

Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance? really? Everything about that movie seemed sloppier than Old Boy. I liked it, but all of the characters were considerably less clear in their motivations for actually doing what they did. Also, the ending was shit.

― lemin (lemin), Sunday, 30 October 2005 15:00 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I think Old Boy wasn't disturbing for the imagery itself, rather than because for some reason you rooted for the characters, which made the stuff on the screen all the more powerful. Ichi the Killer, on the other hand, was such a piece of meaningless crap that nothing in it could've disturbed me as much. (Audition was much better in this regard, also because the gross stuff seeps in kinda unexpectedly.)

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 30 October 2005 15:06 (nineteen years ago)

I thought that the character's revenge was much more unflinchingly brutal in Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance. And I really love the end of that one, it is so unexpected. Park Chan Wook said he'd thought of a different ending, had actually shot it, but felt this to be better. And I must say I totally agree with him. It just comes from nowhere. And I don't really agree with you on the fact that in SFMV the characters didn't seem to have clear motivations for actually doingwhat they did. Why the mute wants revenge is obv. Why the father wants revenge is also obv. What's not clear about their motivations?

Actually, I really enjoyed Old Boy the first time I saw it, but the second viewing just ruined it, as I realised the plot was horribly meh. And that made me reconsider my opinion about this film.

xpost

― Jibé, Sunday, 30 October 2005 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah the characters' reasons for revenge are obvious, but where does the father's predilection towards torture and violence come from?

and as for the ending, i've decided i don't particularly like it when some character predicts something that sounds ridiculous but comes true to everyone's surprise right at the end of the movie. see: Save the Green Planet

― lemin (lemin), Sunday, 30 October 2005 17:58 (nineteen years ago)

Lady Vengeance has already come out COL1N B?

I think it's coming out later this month. I saw it at the NYFF.

― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Sunday, 30 October 2005 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

I rented this last night because of you, adam.
It was...enthralling. Like watching a Greek Tragedy unfold. I suppose because the revenge parts and the twist were so similar to Greek and Roman dramas it wasn't as shocking as it should have been, to me? I don't know. I had to look away during the teeth scene though.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 2 November 2005 14:11 (nineteen years ago)

three months pass...

the nature of the two character's revenge is so unflinchingly brutal. That in and of itself is more shocking than any one scene in the movie.

OTM. I can't get passed that. Did Oh Daesu really deserve all that? I mean......wow. 15 years and then....him and Mi-do. I can't think of a more FUCKED UP revenge than this one, personally........

Great movie, though - but the ending is so unsettling that I almost feel weird recommending it.

― kickitcricket (kickitcricket), Monday, 27 February 2006 18:41 (nineteen years ago)

What's the story w/ the Lady Vengeance release? It was supposed to come out in the fall and never surfaced. There are DVD (with amazing cover art) all over Chinatown, but those are presumably Taiwanese or Hong Kong bootlegs. Did Tartan just drop it?

― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Monday, 27 February 2006 19:53 (nineteen years ago)

i recently had a nightmare about this movie

― phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 27 February 2006 20:31 (nineteen years ago)

Lady Vengeance is all sorts of awesome.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 27 February 2006 21:55 (nineteen years ago)

Aside from the eel meal and the endless one-take fight, big shrug.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 February 2006 22:12 (nineteen years ago)

the bad guy is kinda hot though

― phil-two (phil-two), Monday, 27 February 2006 22:16 (nineteen years ago)

The actor who plays him seems very hungover in the DVD extras.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Monday, 27 February 2006 22:27 (nineteen years ago)

ten months pass...

The "twist" was telegraphed so poorly and so long before it was necessary that I could barely enjoy the beatemup scenes. You just end up sitting through an hour and a half of brutality waiting for the other shoe to drop, and when it does, there's nothing left to the story at all. This movie has a couple of pretty pictures and other than that it's actually just horrid. I value Korean cinema for the ways they satirize their american influences, not the ways they try to top them, I think.

I need to netflix save the green planet or whatever, something to get this taste out of my mouth. Anybody seen Guns & Talks? That's pretty enjoyable.

(reposting from ILF because I used Google and did not realize I was posting to I Love Film until it was TOO LATE, TOO LATE)

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:34 (eighteen years ago)

Aside from the eel meal and the endless one-take fight, big shrug.

the one-take fight in the hall is kind of a like a microcosm of my problems with this kind of pulp. really pretty gripping to watch and then ruins itself with that cheap shot coming off the elevator. OH, YOU'RE SO TOUGH AND UNSTOPPABLE!!! WAY TO GO BRAH

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

This is my favourite film of all-time, so I naturally have to disagree with every word of that.

I didn't get the 'twist', incidentally. I was too busy having my mind blown. Sorry about that.

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:44 (eighteen years ago)

UH.

― AllyzayEisenschefterBDawkinsFlyingSquirrelRomoCrying.jpg (allyzay), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:49 (eighteen years ago)

Sorry, that was another 'cheap shot', I guess. Seriously, though, I was so breathless, so utterly surrendered to the film, that it never occurred to me for a second that she was *** ********.

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

you're an idiot.

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

That's unnecessary but seriously dude I was up and down making dinner and not really paying attention to the movie because it wasn't really "doing it" for me and even under those circumstances, it seemed pretty obvious. I mean, you didn't even notice when it was explicitly stated??!

― AllyzayEisenschefterBDawkinsFlyingSquirrelRomoCrying.jpg (allyzay), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

here, this ridiculous 3-discs-and-a-comic-book metal embossed socially retarded fanboy edition was made for you:
http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000HLDFM2.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_V39420050_.jpg

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

ha, xpost. honey, you can't have that, sorry.

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

Oh come on Louis its one of the most obvious 'twists' ever.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:08 (eighteen years ago)

Okay, well even bearing that in mind, I enjoyed the film EVEN MORE second time around, when I knew what the twist was! Like any great tragedy (for that is what this film is, no less that the Hippolytus or Hamlet), it's not the destination but the journey that contains the film's artistic worth.

Was the twist explicitly revealed before the final confrontation in the high-rise building?

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:20 (eighteen years ago)

I didn't get the twist either until it was revealed, but maybe I'm stupid too.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:23 (eighteen years ago)

Ugh forget about it, I really can't talk about it, I am too busy having my mind blown by this thread.

― AllyzayEisenschefterBDawkinsFlyingSquirrelRomoCrying.jpg (allyzay), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:29 (eighteen years ago)

no less that the Hippolytus or Hamlet

You left Orbital out there.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:31 (eighteen years ago)

Come on, I want to know at what point you all realised the twist. I mean, even taking that into account, the true drama of the film's climax surely comes after we find out the truth, with the staggering act of self-mutilation and subservience, followed by the 'heart-stop remote control' shocker?

Oh, and Matt, I knew something along those lines was coming. This time I stand by what I said, it's no LESS a tragedy than those two, rather than in some sort of pantheon.

Although it's in that pantheon too, don't get me wrong.

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:32 (eighteen years ago)

ruins itself with that cheap shot coming off the elevator.

That's called a joke.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:34 (eighteen years ago)

okay yeah but EVERY korean movie EVER has that joke except for the ones where a really sweet man gets a brain tumor right after his lovely wife finds out she's got a bun in the oven

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

I pretty much knew she was his daughter when he walked into the restaurant and she took his order. of course I've read a couple reviews of the movie, but really, it's kind of like eh do the math. what else takes 15 years to set up?

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

I haven't seen this yet. Is the twist more obvious than The Sixth Sense (which I will never see)?

― reverto levidensis (blueski), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

DON'T READ THIS THREAD if you haven't seen it yet. See it and then rush to my support!

And I will never see T6S either, so I can't help you there. All I'll say is that knowledge of the twist doesn't really destroy the film in any way. It's about the burden of fate, tragedy etc etc etc (yawn).

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Thursday, 11 January 2007 16:58 (eighteen years ago)

I don't think that particular plot twist was what the film was about

No, not trying to be contrarian for the sake of it.. All the major plot twists were obvious and yet somehow unavoidable for the characters, that's more what it was about..

― dar1a g (daria g), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:00 (eighteen years ago)

maybe I didn't drink enough to watch this movie, if I was on beer number four or five I'm sure I would have been at least a little unnerved by woo jin's final zing with the pacemaker remote. as it was there was this dead horse, right, and they just kept kicking it.

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:00 (eighteen years ago)

It's about the burden of fate, tragedy etc etc etc
true that

― dar1a g (daria g), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:01 (eighteen years ago)

It's about the burden of fate, tragedy etc etc etc (yawn).

yeah but then I don't necessarily agree with the idea of obscuring the point of your story until the end either. Why try to be clever?

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:03 (eighteen years ago)

that final 'zing' wasn't meant to be unnerving, it was meant to be the final, crushing blow. This is drama, not ILX, dude.

and srsly, when did you work out the twist?

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

i don't think it's a 100% successful film, too convoluted, but i think what the director was going for is tragedy/fate type stuff.. he just couldn't/wouldn't focus

― dar1a g (daria g), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

I have Lady Vengeance in queue, having seen Old Boy a few months ago. I said then that OB feels like one movie for the first 2/3 and then becomes a different film by the end, and I think I'm going to stick with that assessment. Regardless, I liked mark p's points upthread.

― Laurel (Laurel), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:06 (eighteen years ago)

you might be right tom, if he had revealed the thing abt his daughter early on, or maybe had it happen way late in the plot, because otherwise it does sort of become like a "OMG crazy plot twist" thing to audience

― dar1a g (daria g), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

The movie starts with inexplicable duress, continues as detective story, with the two combatants circling closer and closer, and then switches suddenly into theatrical juggernaut at the final confrontation. It sounds like pretty typical tragedy to me. The film doesn't become a different one at the end; it merely ups the ante and reaches some sort of hyper-dramatic summation of the opening stages. The scene in the high-rise building (i.e. that confrontation) might be my favourite scene in movie history. It's astonishing and well beyond what anyone was expecting (perhaps this is why people rejected it? Outside the comfort zone and all that).

...but Tom DID work it out 'ages before the end'!

The 'OMG plot twist' aspect of it simply put everything into sharper context. It didn't change anything that had gone before.

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:12 (eighteen years ago)

I figured she was his daughter when he walked into the restaurant and she took his order. I was a little confused if she knew who she was at first, if she was in on the whole thing. She wasn't. Oh, Daesupaws. The End.

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

waht

how on earth could you have worked it out then?

Anyway, they're Hollywoodising this, apparently. I don't think I could bear to watch the remake.

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:32 (eighteen years ago)

i didn't figure it out, but the twist is really lame. although the characters in the movie think it is shocking, my response is, "You wasted 15 years of your life for THAT?! whatever."

― a.b. (alanbanana), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:50 (eighteen years ago)

you work it out then because that's the way the entire film has been set up, already at that point you know his daughter has to figure in SOMEHOW, wtf drag out the exposition in the drunk tank that long otherwise, zoom in on bag lying in rain, meh meh and it's been 15 YEARS, and HOW OLD DOES THAT WAITRESS LOOK OH WAIT HERE WE GO. forehead slaps all round, seriously, what other narrative purpose could random beautiful waitress with more than two lines possibly have? revenge movies only ever have room for three people!

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 18:37 (eighteen years ago)

I mean that's a lot of reverse-logicking on my part, I didn't have to think very hard, that was just a very strong-feeling guess that turned out to be really kind of boringly correct in the end! That's why twists are always pretty much crap!

― TOMB07 (TOMBOT), Thursday, 11 January 2007 18:38 (eighteen years ago)

I figured the twist out as soon as she turned up, too. But Oldboy is an exercise in style, and if you're not digging the style it's gonna seem pointless and trite. Cf. the Cohen Brothers. It's not where you're going (dud) but how you get there (classic).

Lady Vengeance, while lacking the high-impact moments of Oldboy, is a better film on the whole.

― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 11 January 2007 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

i thought it was pretty good but the twist was boring and the villain sucked. this is the fourth-best chan-wook park movie i've seen.

― ‘•’u (gear), Thursday, 11 January 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

But Oldboy is an exercise in style, and if you're not digging the style it's gonna seem pointless and trite. Cf. the Cohen Brothers. It's not where you're going (dud) but how you get there (classic).

thank you, this is what I've been trying to say for the past 4 hours! minus that dud bit, obv.

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Thursday, 11 January 2007 18:58 (eighteen years ago)

villain sucked

I actually really like the villain in Oldboy, in that when he turns up, he's this cheery, upscale, successful guy who also happens to be a freaking psychopath. He's like Patrick Bateman crossed with Goldfinger.

― Edward III (edward iii), Thursday, 11 January 2007 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

I read half this thread thinking it was about "Old Joy" and got very very confused.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 11 January 2007 21:47 (eighteen years ago)

I called the twist when she first appeared, and I was really drunk. I still liked it, but again I was really drunk and haven't seen it since. I think Laurel's assessment about it becoming a completely different movie in the last third is spot-on, and its biggest flaw. Not unwatchably awful by any means though.

― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Thursday, 11 January 2007 21:53 (eighteen years ago)

My mom saw this movie not really knowing what it was about - only hearing that it was in Korean... Boy was she in for a surprise....

― phil-two (phil-two), Thursday, 11 January 2007 23:12 (eighteen years ago)

I like "Lady Vengeance" better, too.

I didn't get the twist, I never get twists, I never know who did it on "Poirot" either. I kind of like that it ends happily, incest aww.

I think Laurel's assessment about it becoming a completely different movie in the last third is spot-on, and its biggest flaw.

I think the begining, up to his release, feels like a completley different movie than the rest of it, too.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 12 January 2007 15:32 (eighteen years ago)

Is the comic good?

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 12 January 2007 15:35 (eighteen years ago)

XP: I don't think I quite see that, I meant that it was quirky and playful, had silly sound effects and funny visual juxtapositions, up until the last confrontation begins. I'm sure there are a raft of other contrasts and purposeful things, that's just what struck me on the first watch.

― Laurel (Laurel), Friday, 12 January 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

Spielberg and Will Smith May Redo Bloody Oldboy!!!!!!!!! :((((((((((((

― jaxon, Thursday, 20 November 2008 06:52 (sixteen years ago)

This was discussed on the other Oldboy thread:

Now I'm sure there was a thread about the film Oldboy

― Tuomas, Thursday, 20 November 2008 08:09 (sixteen years ago)

two years pass...

You know, I'm not really sure how this movie could have covered up the twist more than it actually did. But those claiming that the movie was 'ruined' when they figured it out are totally off the mark. Even knowing what happens the final scene (with Daesu looking through the photo album) gives me serious chills.

― frogbs, Monday, 26 September 2011 18:02 (thirteen years ago)

My wife loves this movie for some reason! Other movies she likes: Dead Poets' Society, The Notebook, One True Thing

― lol goat on table (admrl), Monday, 26 September 2011 22:05 (thirteen years ago)

one month passes...

Revive to talk about Yellow Sea, pretty much an US blockbuster that almost certanly wouldn't be made in the US bcz of the ridiculously convoluted plot. This was carried over by scenes of gore and car crashing ramped up to 11, and then some.

Koreans do know how to film a scuffle don't they? A real love of the grime, with a dose of slapstick as well.

― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 3 November 2011 22:19 (thirteen years ago)

one year passes...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8gpi44y4TU

― Number None, Wednesday, 10 July 2013 21:29 (twelve years ago)

three years pass...

Only thing that could have justified a remake for me is if he ends up being not bothered or really pleased by the revelation at the end.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 12:31 (eight years ago)

maybe the next remake can star Donald Trump

― frogbs, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 13:00 (eight years ago)

Or Vince McMahon

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 13:20 (eight years ago)

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