Fat girl threads a re bluddy nightmare. Did we fight in the Kate Winslett wars for this?

If she mentioned her past weight to you it's obviously a sensitive point with her. Try not to obsess about it b/c she probably is. Whatever her shape is remember that it doesn't change the person you've gotten to know and like.

Oh for heaven's sake, it's not that complicated. 14 pounds in a stone. 220 pounds = 15st 10lb.

Samantha's answer is sensible. It's an issue w/her - don't push it one way or the other yet.

Quite so. Size doesn't affect intelligence, humor, grace or how sexy a person is, to name just a few qualities. Don't worry and just go for it and see what happens.

Without knowing any other factors, the woman as you describe her sounds like she's not significantly overweight from a medical perspective. (On my frame the numbers you cite would look like underweight.) However, she sounds like she's wrestling with cultural definitions of overweight, which, at an extreme, would seem to uphold 2 lbs. shy of organ failure as the model of beauty. I'm sorry to say that I have no idea how to talk people out of these concepts.

Blimey. Am I pigging out tonight!

i personally will say that if i weighed between 150-170 lbs i'd be pretty happy. (nb, i'm five foot four.) i do often struggle with my own perception of how i look on the fat/overweight but eh/ok scale, with the answers usually resting somewhere in between the first two.

questions like this are totally hard, in part because the midsection of the 'fat' slope is more often than not fairly slippery and in part because saying 'i'm fat' is probably the most generic catch-all expression of dissatisfaction with one's appearance. (i know that i hear it a lot more than 'i'm ugly' - do you?) also there's the whole idea of attractiveness being the sum of more than just physical bits, and the sliding scale of what turns people on ... and and and ...

i appreciate all of your responses, even dave Q's (even though I can't do that since frankly, I can't just "fuck" one I might not be aroused by in the first place... enough performance anxiety here without that factor), but I liked Samantha's the best, since dolt that I am, only after reading that did it strike me that this really REALLY is a sensitive issue with her. D'oh ho ho, I don't care if she looks like Mrs. Santa Claus, I'm still going to meet her and be friends, if nothing more.

instead of bitches, could everyone reign in their 8 yr old side for a second. thanks.

i also got a very strange one from douglas hsu, which i cd not decode as to content, which also went to mjemmeson and mitch, i noticed, plus a buncha foaxs whose addys i dint know)

who is generally regarded as the most trouble-making, discord- creating ile poster around here anyway???

And it was talking to people I MIGHT not be aroused by.

sincerely,

an 8 yr old

...but yes, I have considered that, I of course don't think it's someone's "fault," and honestly, I would rather date a healthy 160 pound/5'8" girl than an anorexic, anyday. But I am also sticking to that ideal of honesty when I truthfully confess that if I had a choice and I didn't know the girl's personality AT ALL, I would probably choose a slimmer girl over those stats, not least because i am such a toothpick myself and have had painful experiences with overweight women before. Yet in my situation, i already KNOW the girl's personality, so I'm not just going to be sgum (see the fob board) and drop her or anything...I'm going to take a chance and see what she's like *as a person* in person. I would never just hold her weight against her or use it to "blame" her, like you're implying.

don't think pubic problem, maryann, think PUBIC OPPORTUNITY

or was it jess? he's a blabmouth considering he has such a teenytiny head

huh, wait...maryann, how do you know about my musical tastes or fantasies anyway????

the j-lu/jel thing = a gag spoiled by all these ppl having their serious argt; the jess thing = TRUE cuz i saw it in a dream

(which reminds i dreamt abt duane last night maryann: he wasn't there, but every dilemma that presented itself, i wondered solennly WHAT WOULD DUANE DO? I didn't start the Cuprofen Max Strength till this morning either)

carry on folks you've been a swell audience (except for YOU)

Mark S - 'What would Duane do'? That's pretty funny considering Duane's decision-making algorithm seems to always default to 'I'll just pretend to be reading this Cream magazine from 1973 and wait until everyone's gone away.' Of course that's what attracted me to him in the first place.

As for this:

An extremely loose guideline suggests allowing 100 lbs for 5'0" tall, and in women, another 5 lbs for each additional inch of height (men are spotted 10 lbs for each additional inch). Now, this system rightly is criticized because it doesn't allow for extremely large or small bones or much muscular development.

I don't think this is very true. It doesn't fit me and I am certain I'm not fat or overweight or anything (I'm not giving my weight, etc. on ILE).

thats more than 25 kilos guys! how come nobody noticed!

Blah blah blah, fat is a feminist issue, etc. etc.

Yes, in an ideal world, people should be happy with their body image no matter what they weigh, the tyrany of the anorexic with the airbrush is harmful to everyone.

However, I always have to say this about my own weight. When I am happy with my life, my weight drops naturally (less comfort eating, more energy) and when I am miserable, my weight increases. So mood and weight and self image are all utterly inexorably tied together, and anyone who tries to tell you that it is or should be otherwise is foolish at best.

I am 5'8" and I'd just like to take this opportunity to point out that since getting out of an unhappy... situation, I have lost about a stone, just through not being miserable and not binging on chocolate every day. I'm still 165lbs, and therefore FAT, but I'm very pleased with the results. Everybody give me a big hand or I'll thwack you.

There are guidelines for how much healthy individuals of either sex should weigh if they are certain heights, and this is suppsed to be tempered for bone structure. (So there is a leeway of about 15 lbs on either side of "normal" before you're classed as medically overweight.)

I don't know what I'm blethering on about. But everybody clap for my discarded stone of useless flesh! (And there will be no quips about the 9 or 10 stone of useless flesh I discarded a few months ago, please!)

clapclapclapclapclap etc.

oh and i just love it when i mispell words i'm KWOTING

Why are you bothered so much about her weight? The poor gurl must be freaking out about it if she's refusing to tell you. The internet must be one place where you can feel secure that body issues aren't a part of whatever relationship you're building - if you're that good friends she will come to talk about it to you in time. Or you know, perhaps she won't. I think you need to give her some respect and let her talk about in her own time.

If on the other hand he's been treating her as a friend and NOT mentioning his romantic intentions and may now drop her because he doesn't fancy her, well that is bad. But it's bad because it's dishonest and manipulative, not because he doesn't fancy her cause she's fat.

The basic point is that there is nothing wrong with not fancying somebody because they are fat. I wish more people did fancy fat women (and men!) because the sum of human happiness would be increased, but if somebody has that as their 'decider' then there's nothing you can do about it and - it seems to me - no moral position you can take on it, except to privately think that person a bit shallow. Some people have a very normative perception of attractiveness and then assume that everyone else will share it and criticise them for not doing so - those people are fuckwits. But Vic isn't among them. (That said Vic hasn't caught nearly as much flak on this thread as he seems to think he has).

I dread meeting people I know online and finding that I either don't like them in real life or that I *do* fancy them!

i sort of had second thoughts about the whole thing being too personal and crazy to post, but do you guys want to read it ?

Um. I am glad Tom made that post, it seems to be clear what his point is in differentiating between two different types of people. I solemnly swear that I belong in the first group, because I have made it clear that we should see each other and see what happens. Mind you, she's been dating she said, I think more than 6 or 7 other guys in the past 8 months that I've on-again off-again been talking to her, so I wasn't like prohibiting her from seeing other people before I saw her. Really, i wasn't even sure if I was going to meet her until August, when she seemed to agree to it...before that she was on the fence, and we were just online friends who would flirt with each other. Ok yeah, so there were serious romantic undertones but I wasn't talking to her constantly this 8 month period. or ok can i e more honest? Wasn't it just hormonal undertones on my part ?To be honest, I saw her as this fickle high school girl (which she is), going through so many different guys in such a short time (regardless of how unserious I wanted the relationship to be. I mean, I met her in a chatroom in March where I half-seriously was trying to cyber pick someone up..very pathetic I know). I was all facile and ironic in my depravity: in like "hey, we met in a cyber room - now we should fuck!" and she would play along and it was funny, she would LOL a lot. Then over the montths as each and evey single one of her real life relationships didn't work out, somehow she got emotionally attached to me, in a way only girls can. I mean, she knows so little about me, she has never met me before or seen what I look like, but she was throwing the L-word around; that was, um, insane. I just chalked it up to being a 17 year old girl, and we didn't talk for a while since I've been emotionally...here and there...and maybe occupied or engaged elsewhere, not to another person but inside of myself..

and needed space.

I feel so dirty right now typing all this, I mean what if she walked in here, she'd die, it's her life drama for the world wide web to read. I wasn't even thinking any of this would be serious but then it got serious and then by August when I came back here I started feeling something for her too, but it was sort of minute? thing compared to her voracious need/drive to "have a boyfriend" - a longterm one i guess - since of course she felt/feels extremely lonely since "all her friends" had boyfriends but she didn't. I mean one thing she does know, that I told her on day one, was that I'm bisexual - isn't that a deterrent to girls anyway? (great thread topic, I guess) She lost her virginity to some 20 year old in august whom she knew was probably not going to see her again after he went back to college..she cried and laughed and went along with it, but it still hurt. He was one of these 6-7 guys. That need for partnership apparently...when I saw voracious, I mean voracious. Another thread topic: why does the mass media like Seventeen Magazine or Dawson's fucking Creek bbrainwash girls into thinking they need boyfriends or else their self-esteem is not complete...why do other women/girls determine a girl's worth based on whether or not she has a relationship, just like "macho" teenage guys deteremine a guy's worth based on whether he's fucked, or how much he has fucked? IS IT KATE WINSLETTE and that fdawful ship-movie's fault that all teenage girls in the past few years are made to feel inadequate if they don't have some idiot pretending to sing to them (while really he's just using her for pussy anyway, if we're playing averages) ? Oh jesus isound too cynical now.

anyway. back to the soap opera

Not only would it be immoral but I simply don't know how to post pictures up here, or else I guess I could post the pic she sent me in April and then in August. It's just a weird angle of her body in the former one, and her face in the latter; she looks so pretty in the second one. I never asked for these pictures - she just sent them to my email. In case you think it's unfair that i have her pic and she doesn't hae mine - well i never really demanded hers, and i don't have one scanned, and she just sent hers, and she never cared that i didnt send mine.

she didn't look even chubby in those pictures, needless to say, it might have been a "perfect angle" thing

then yesterday morning she says she used to be 220 pounds. after i tell her something like, " i don't care what you look like as long as you're not fat since i don't feel comfortable around fat girls." why?

SO TO ALL YOU LURKING FEMINAZIS WHO MAY BE OUT THERE THINKING THAT ALL MEN ARE ONLY EVIL AND THAT WE ONLY OBJECTIFY WOMEN WELL FUCK YOU BECAUSE I HOPE ONE DAY YOU'LL ACKNOWLEDGE THAT WOMEN CAN DO THE EVIL DEEDS IN RETURN. AND NO ONE WILL EVER BELIEVE THE MALE SINCE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE INVULNERABLE, RIGHT? i mean, if i knew anywhere here in real life, i'd have castrated myself at this point in their eyes...and i'm not making it up. i'm not ashamed. fat girls like Dana are atrociously powerful i didnt just want to jump out the window

jesus, now my "rape" fantasy on that dark fantasy board will look like hypocritical shit, instead of just shite. but it's the truth - what can i do? and i'm not going to screw up my karmic account by lying, not even on he internet. i mean thats partially why i'm here - i don't know ay of you freaky indie british trigger people and i;ll never meet you in real ilife so i have started feeling comfortble now so nothin' but the awful truth baby i fee l like i'm in therapy though, maybe thisisn't theoutlet for all this. sorry if i am imposing, just skip this post. my self-consciousness has achieved new depths!!

back to Suzie., the funny thing is that um, i TOLD her the whole Dana thing when her 220# came up, i mean to protect my pride yeah i did tell it to her in a humouros way butshe kept LOLing but then said "hey wait a minute, *I* used to be 220 pounds." and then i ask her her weight and she's under 170...150? she's not telling. sudenly i'm the bad guy - no further comment on my true molestation story, i guess her fucking LOLs were all that would suffice - but um, suddenly I'm the bad guy because a girl's weight is important to me? and you never TOLD me that you used to be a fat girl before either? well fuck you, but no, since my moon is in Gemini and i'm emotionally detached from everything that's happening as it's happening, i don't express any frustration (thats coming out NOW 11 hours later!). She LOLs so I follow up with ... just abnother attempt to get humorous again and say something like "i'm sure you'll find another guy who's into big girls ha ha" and that did it, she told me she can't believe what i said, she cut and pasted it even though i thought it wasso evident hat i was being ironic and totally nonsensical with that statement, she told me to fuck off and well there she signed off. and then i posted my question on here .

yeah i talked to her briefly again and oh she's still mad and oh, if i don't like who she is then too bad and o h, i'm sorry suzie, "well of i'm not mad anymore but i realized if you don't like me for who i am..fuck you" ok ok ok. so i really probably shouldn't even meet this gorl, should i? i'm really questioning my motivations here, really. since yes, maybe i just wanted to basically hook up at first in march, i didn't know i'm going to be keep developing this friendship here, and well i always knew i had no game and probably would't meet the girl and get lucky, but i didn't know that she'd develop some sort of emotional thing for me. i want to fuck her because well this is only part of the reason, i really do like her as a person, geez, but yes, i'm a virgin with girls at 21 and it would be an ego thing since i am already considered culturally abnormal, just ask someone like Ronan who is around my age and would know it's the most shameful thing for a boy to be over 17 and still innocent. and it doesn't just have to do with cultural reasons ( remember how i'm an ethnic child? my brother remained virginal until 26 and a half, after his arranged fucking marriage he finally experienced physical love, and i bought the pre-marital = innocence ideal for a while, when i was young and idealistic and whoa, what the fuck, i never was. my mom still cant say the word sex inour house though she spells it s-e-x, ir's all sin, they don't know about me = queer part, but they kind of do, do think i'm odd. actyually thats a whole nother post, because ...) - i'm going to be honest again, it's cause of Dana. i have been really REALLY anxious since i wasn't able to "get it up" that night with her and never ask girls out and sort of use that incident to attack myself and tell myself that hey you're really gay not bi, don't lie "you're a half man, you're not virile" and whoopee i guess ******i am as guilty**** as suzy for buying into the media-engendered gendered-(haha)-myths as she is. but i kind of am so nervous about trying with a girl since what if that whole situation happens again..even though, um, i wasn't really TRYING that time since i didnt want anything to happoen, i was just trrying to get out of there, i was just too scared, and even though um, i can still masturbate about girls and get it up fine when i do that and eveything. so i guess it's not logical..but making love to yourself with the security of your own palm in your own house is diffeent han with another girl, and i'm scared of the Dana situation reoccuring, especially if the girl is somewhat chubby and then i'd never be attracted to her AT ALL. somewhat chubby...like suzy? this is why i'm too scared to ask girls out in real life and resorted to online thing with "nice girls" like suzy in the first place!! how did i know she was going to be "heavyset" and WHY DIDN'T SHE SAY SO 8 MONTHS AGO ? i warned you about this being the WORST ilx post ever - i am being totally honest and vulnerable here, this is so crazy, i haven't even thought about all this myself. you can tel i'm thinking as i'm typing... Suzy she knows i'm a virgin, she herself was one til august remember, hell i think she's even counter-objectified me cause she said once "i was talking to this nice/innnocnt boy last night ..like you..he was a VIRGIN...like you.." well geez, she knows i've been with guys, but if she knew HOW MANY (doing anything i'm not really into anal sorry) would she still think i'm innocnt ?

anf like i said i have been emotionally engaged.. well.. LIKE I SAID IN THAT "describe who you are" thread i am still emotionally recovering from this really traumatic mental breakdown i had a few years ago, and...and i feel very strongly towards this guy..and he precipiated parts of this breakdown...but it also has this spiritual dimension, i can't descfribe it since like i said in that thread, no one would believeme but that's he MOST INTERESTING and vital part about me and about anyhuman, my soul, i got so fucked up emotionally that "spiritual things" happened, thats the only way i can describe them, i can't say more. it's kind of hard to take all this when you're a teenager and still want to fit in (18/19 is still a teenager) and i know i have a bizzare life and a pretty dificult one, but i'm thankful for it since i'm paing off massive, MASSIVE karmic debts here. don't you have to destroy the mind in otrder to know God, didn't Nietzche experience the Kundalini too ? if i never learned to meditate i wuld never have broken down in the first place, and the experience came directly from God, so i can't blame myself... exactly how am i supposed to control those things anyway, i mean...it all started when I was 14. i really shouldn't have mentioned it.

i really shoouldn't have mentioned it. what harm can be done now?

this guy, i have feelings for him still and this girl...she hasn't even met me but sill has to demonstrate feelings of possessiveness. hey, you don't own me, i'm nt even the guy you FUCKED in august but i could have been but i waited.. i wanted it to mean something when i made love to you..i didn't knowyou were going to turn out to be FA. and lie to me for 8 months.

she's possessive. she knows i'm emotionallyextremely complex (all my 12th house planets, in air/water signs like i said) and she knows about this guy, she even knows the fact that i was told by so many different people that i have past live relaitionships with him stretching way back, but she had the audactity to say i should just desire her. hell she's never even met me before and him, i went to school with him and have known him since 1993 but she has to send me BLINK182 (does this answer why i hate the Tom?>) lyrics like "i want to make love to a toaster, I WANT TO BE YOUR ONLY ONE." well FUCK OFF CUNT YOU CAN'T BE MY ONLY ONE you could have at least been truthful to me i waited a very long time for yo, i reallly did want things to be special WHY DON'T YOU even want to understad my terribly insecriity with girls was instigated by a fat girl itself a FAT GIRL LIKE YOURSELF? i feel no remorse. i have to be ever-patient and apologetic why do you have to be an emotional vampire..

so i really shouldn't meet her then. cause i'm a bad man, an evil male, and don't want a relationship, just wantd a nice cyberchatroom lay, and she developed this relationship, and my self-loathing and dysfunctional past and astral imbalances and physical ungroundedness and performance insecuirities would get in the way anyway, but she wouldn't be attention, cause she's just a self-cenetered teenage girl who wants a boyfriend since all her friends have one. i don't want to be her boyfriend; she wont want to fuck me. i am not good at lying. i need a WHORE. she doesn't realize that she may need to do without relationships for a while and start focusing on building her own confidence, instead of deriving her self-esteem based on whether she has a boyfriend or not, besids i'm 125 and i f she really is 167 she'd crush me. that would bring back bad memories and id have to listen to limp bizkit i'm doing it all for thecookie stick it up YOUR YEAH SUZY, YOUR GODDAMNED YEAH. Gale, does this answer your question abou t my past with intimacy ? oh and please dont anyone tell me to get therapy for anything, since *obviously* ii've had to write western psychiatry as a rule off after well, when i was 17 i described a spiritual experience i had had in which i was disconnected from my body (huge internal painful orgasmic sensation) and they wanted to have me COMMITTED, right then and there. can't trust the bastards - my parents saved my ass... but really, they're all fakers. oh the counselor was a "yoga practitioner" too ..slmost fooled me jerfoff!!! ALMOST!!!!!!!!!!!! they just don't understand the inner workings of consciousness, astral realms, and then blame evreything on one catch-all under-the-rug word, "schizophrenia" which basically means: "disoders" about the mind we still don't understand. lock 'em up ! aand shock them! wqhat if youu're already getting electric shocks from da INSIDE!!?>

well well. i guess i learned what a blog is for after all. i really feel sorry for taking up so much space and for ayone who actually stated to read this. i feel extremely naked now, ge i wonder why. i wonder if i can even ever come back here again, not that i have any sense of embarassment left anyway. thanks for everyone who responded - you're al rerally nice guys... and so witty too. especially the british indie people

Vic - wow, a lot of stuff here. Basically I think this girl probably isn't ready/able to understand the very intense and dramatic situations you're talking about - she's still discovering herself and her own attitude to relationships and working things out about her own body image, so having to process this idea that women can be aggressors and abusers and that this can warp somebody's notions about size issues is likely to be a bit difficult, especially as the situation exploded so soon after your mutual 'confessions'.

I don't think she was 'lying' to you incidentally - she didnt say she was fat but did she say she wasn't? If somebody starts chatting with me then unless the subject comes up I'm not going to say I'm overweight because it really doesn't define me - this is the luxury of the internet, to reduce the importance of those kind of things.

An extremely loose guideline suggests allowing 100 lbs for 5'0" tall, and in women, another 5 lbs for each additional inch of height (men are spotted 10 lbs for each additional inch). Now, this system rightly is criticized because it doesn't allow for extremely large or small bones or much muscular development.

I don't think this is very true. It doesn't fit me and I am certain I'm not fat or overweight or anything (I'm not giving my weight, etc. on ILE).

That's why I qualified it, saying that it's an extremely generous guideline and that it's criticized on these and other grounds. But of course the real problem is the loathing many women (particularly me) have for their bodies.

You don't see my point at all, sorry. Or if you did you could at least take a minute to show me where I'm so wrong since direct contradiction without any evidence has never done much to change my mind, funny that. Why are some physical features that people can be insecure about any different to others? . I realise my use of weird eyes or third nipples as an example was glib, but the question still stands. Just because weight issues affect more people does not mean they are different to any other areas of their body people feel insecure about, or does it? What am I missing? Point still remains that if Vic had been saying the girl was really worried about some other aspect of her body, or something more obscure he wouldn't have had to be quite so careful would he? Nothing to do with importance as far as I can see, it's just because more people have fuckin history on this subject. Pretty obvious as soon as the poor guy started the thread someone was getting offended within an hour or two, regardless of what he said. You're doomed as soon as you start the fucking thread, no amount of caution is enough. God I don't mean to argue all the time or whatever, I don't think what I say is particularly stupid or outrageous but there you go. And if I sound confrontational it's not intentional.

Tell me if what I'm saying is totally different or something but I don't see it, I'm going to presume negative reaction to my posting was due to my shoddy example "weird eyes, or a third nipple". Although that's not really what I think.

Talking about weird nipples and third eyes is even better

...but it's soon becoming a beautiful afternoon. A phat one

The chick who did nasty stuff to you in the dorm room and then made a joke of it is EVIL, as evil a boy who'd do that to a girl. DAMN, this pisses me off. If you heard that some guy did this to a girl friend of yours, what would be your opinion of him? Grrr. Psycho girl.

Your sexuality -- who you fancy -- that's how you are, nothing wrong with it. Plenty of girls like a guy who likes both. Plenty of guys like a guy who likes both.

Both the things above seem to be messing with you like the big time, and if they keep being a problem, you might wanna see a counselor to help you put them in their place.

The girl -- I dunno, if she's that possessive/must be YOUR GIRLFRIEND/needs a boyfriend because her friends have one, I'd go carefully. She sounds more YOUNG than anything else.

Best of luck.

men do this to women as much as women do it too.

i'm really sorry about your experience with the "fat" girl, vic, but i would like to point out to you that it shouldn't matter to you what she looked like, the fact that it happened is bad enough. so calling her a "fat hippo" doesn't help to win you sympathy. i mean i do sympathise with you but... you know what i mean, the fact that she was fat is unimportant, and the fact that you emphasize it makes you look like a bigot. it sounds like you are projecting onto other fat women from your one experience with a woman who just happened to be fat. i suppose its more psychologically complex than i'm giving you credit for though?

are you sure you want a whore, and not a girl that you can respect and be friends with and fuck without things getting emotionally messy? i think there is a difference.

maybe you explained your self for the "whore" comment, but i only skim read through those big posts.

Sorry.. hread hijack I know... personal gripe of mine, don't mind me, carry on.

God I'm grumpy today aren't I?

I agree with the first part, but not with the second. Who says everyone likes slim girls?

We can't win, can we? :)

PS: being a certain size and being a certain weight are not mutually inclusive.

Sounds fairly emmaiciated to me.

try ?ã

I still don't know what you mean! Speak in Spanish?

if there's a non-calculator way, i have no idea what it is

Why do you need the square root, anna?

(I am such a maths dunce. It's very embarassing.
T: You can't be that bad. What are eight sevens?
[long pause]
[painfully long pause]
Anna (brightly) 58! )

My weight fluctuates between 130 and 160, depending on my environment, and I'm 5'5". And the only difference I see when I'm at my peak weight is that I go up a size. I kind of always look the same. 160 is by no means fat. I kind of like it because I find it very soft and rounded and I still think I'm attractive and healthy.

yes there is! there are lots, in fact. kids used to have to learn them about 100 years ago.

my party trick when i was 11 or so was taking square roots of largish numbers to 1dp in my head. this probably explains why i didn't get asked to any parties.

LOL!!1 i'M gald everything is so black and white to you, adn its sure great you showed me how its so simple lol! Clearly U understand that every1 who has a hard time losing weight can't because they don't have willpower and don't really care about their body.

You fucking retard lol! u r fat!

(The spelling and typing errors in this post are intentional.)

-- toby

BUT YOU STILL DO THIS!

Also, a larger muscle mass usually leads to a higher metabolism, which makes it easier to keep off or lose body fat.

- Debaser

Guys are under much more pressure to conform to an ideal of masculinity. It's bullshit that women think they have it worse and have to be some skinny blonde or something to get laid. Most girls I've known who think that get laid all the time and still moan. It's a sad sight. Just accept yourself.

Surely that's your fault, isn't it Calum? I have no qualms about telling people to fuck off when they're invading my personal space.

Jess, I think perhaps there's a handle you're flying off rather ridiculous. Chill the fuck out.

So why don't you stop playing the prick?

You've already cut down the retarded vicious insults by 75%, why don't you complete the process and quit starting silly threads?

Calum suddenly trying to come across all nice and reasonable in a desperate attempt to make him not look like the fool he is? You shock me, sir! ;-)

Uh, call me incredibly suspicious, doubtful and somewhat unconvinced.

(I actually did still want more of an answer on this subject via the off-board message last week, though, so if you could respond to that...)

There should be ILX mud wrestling, there should.

The part of the thread up until the very present touches on a lot of things I've been thinking over and over in my head.

And then it turns into a "thread for updating purposes only" sort of thing. Which is kinda a bummer because I'd have really wanted to participate in the original thread, being that I have a million different thoughts that have historically troubled me, all swimming frantically in my head. Ah well. This is why the good Lord gave us journals, isn't it?

Is there a height/weight table for men somewhere? I don't imagine they're the same.

Vic--what happened??

(not that i have a problem with it. just curious)

Girls are luckier than boys in a way because they can get away with being SHORT - and being on a diet isn't gonna ever make you taller.

http://www.geocities.com/lucylurex/shuttup.txt

what no-one knew is that at 5'3" and 140 pounds, she is classed as moderately overweight and therefore not healthy. does lucy suffer in a private fat hell? or is this evidence that such height/weight charts are a crock of shit? i'm gonna sit back with a very large bowl of ice cream while you decide.

(Cymbal noise)

as for fat women i would of course love and respect her for who she was and never judge her on looks - only on her soul and her brain. (note: best thing about being a fag is being able to say stuff like that and never have to be put to the test)

what if all the fat is in THAT place???

Plus, from what I've gathered, all girls think they're fat anyway. So in some sense, there are nothing but fat girls everywhere.

I am so proud that this is my first post in two weeks. So proud.

(poster's note: and this dude is like 4' 11!)

The difference between old ILX and new ILX is that ain't no hater gonna hold me down, no, no I'm just gonna pop off and have my fun let the haters hate and the C-man see oh baby this is like a new millenium of love.

Sorry, listening to R. Kelly.

it started in 2001 so not sure how it can portray a tangible difference - oh well

what's certain is that he only gets to come into empty space

ihttp://www.orangeneko.com/ rik/pages/sep.jpg

C on ILX:

ihttp://www.panmacmillan.com.au/ cover0/0752215051.jpg

Go figure.

C on TWX:
http://www.orangeneko.com/rik/pages/sep.jpg

C on ILX:

http://www.panmacmillan.com.au/cover0/0752215051.jpg

people that lust after those skinny type gals actually fancy young boys obv.

a girl pinched my ass at tottenham court road tube station the other day. i didn't tell he to fuck off, because it's never happened to me unexpectedly before, because i don't have to face that kind of harrassment all the time. actually, i sort of laughed in bemusement, and told my girlfriend, who was walking besides me. she laughed as well.

The fat ones, the skinny ones, the short ones, the tall ones. A skinny girl IS NOT ACTUALLY A 10-YEAR OLD BOY. Sexiness encompasses physical beauty but is not limited to it, and is in the eye of the beholder. Y'all are acting Fark.

I hope he didn't think I was pregnant. Because I was in a bar and stoned.

It's this simple. For 99% of males and females a fat body is simply unnattractive. A fat girl aint gonna pull Brad Pitt just as a fat guy is not going to pull Cameron Diaz. You can address that to when you walk into a club too - you know whose within your range and who is not.

i see a problem

slebmags were quick to point and laugh at her dermatological probs as well but she's still an insanely beautiful woman

i would compliment mandee on her looks and figure too but ya kno, i wouldn't wanna rub jon's rhubarb...

It doesn't really work the other way around because men are simply far less likely to want an older/ unnattractive rich famous woman on their arm.

P.S. And how would people on INTERNET FORUMS know about Cameron Diaz's hygeine? That girl is so hot it doesn't really matter anyway surely because at the end of the day she can any bloke in the world.

WOMEN ARE SEXY FULL STOP.
The fat ones, the skinny ones, the short ones, the tall ones. A skinny girl IS NOT ACTUALLY A 10-YEAR OLD BOY. Sexiness encompasses physical beauty but is not limited to it, and is in the eye of the beholder. Y'all are acting Fark.

-- mookieproof (mookieproo...), July 16th, 2004 12:11 PM. (later)

and

But yeah, I think that anyone who has anything for any type of specific body is a bit creepy. I get a bit creeped out at the thought of chubby chasers or whatevs.
-- Homosexual II (mandeewrigh...), July 16th, 2004 1:29 PM. (later)

Please make it stop.

C-Man, I know you like acting like a dick to provoke a reaction, but you've too easy and audience. Go exorcise your talents on a different board. Preferably a really violent one.

Everybody else: Stop taking it all so seriously. Ignore this kind of bullshit! If it winds you up you're being suckered in and the joke's on you.

Also, Tuomas OTM.

http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/img/assets/4243/ex_040616_roman_warrior.jpg

I guess it doesn't look anything like the one that momus posted. I was remembering it darker and smoother.

I agree with Dog Latin, C-Man and JW working in tandem was the last thing I wanted to witness too.

http://www.fatchicksinpartyhats.com

Calum's made several good points here, though I can't take issue about the double standards for ass-patting/pinching among strangers in public. Women are much less likely to be potential physical threat to men than vice versa.

Also, there are examples of non-leggy supermodel types who've become sex symbols. Christina Ricci is one. Janeane Garafolo is another. And in the softcore b-movie universe possibly the most popular actress going right now is the very curvy, "regular girl with a pretty face" Misty Mundae.

You may be right, but it's all a question of chicken or egg, meaning that "many women" wouldn't say such things if they hadn't learned (implicitly or explicitly) how a women "should" look from childhood on. That of course doesn't make mean comments any more acceptable.

Calum's made several good points here, though I can't take issue about the double standards for ass-patting/pinching among strangers in public. Women are much less likely to be potential physical threat to men than vice versa.

Yeah, I agree that there are a lot of double standards. For example, I've noticed that in certain "enlightened" leftist/indie/whatever circles (at least here in Finland) there isn't that much pressure for women to be thin, but there are such pressures for men. Most of my female friends don't have that a big issue with their weight, but I know several guys who do. Male anorexia has been getting more common, a good friend of mine used to suffer from it.

However, I think sometimes drawing attention to such doudle standards isn't done only out of genuine concern, but also as a sort of a backlash against feminist thought. At times I feel like this about C-Man's comments. I'm not saying these aren't serious problems; it is true that issues like women's violence towards men or weight pressures on guys have been pretty much invisible until the last few years, because such things aren't supposed to happen to men. However, an argument like: "Yeah, everyone talks about women's issues, but how about the pressures on men, no one pays attention to that!" can be used to muddle the truth. Yes, men suffer from gender-related pressures and expectations too, and attention should be paid to that, but that doesn't change the fact that such problems are a hundred times worse for women.

(Sorry, this wasn't directed against you, just clearing my thoughts.)

I think Christina Ricci is an attractive girl too. Women, like men, come in all shapes and sizes (I'm judging obesity here which I don't think many men or women find attractive. Ricci is still slim, I would say...) although in my experience I have found women to be as judgemental as men.

Anyway, as long as rich, ugly/ old men like Hugh Hefner dance around with 7 slim young girlfriends can anyone really take many of the comments here seriously? I don't see 7 six packed men running around with a 70 year old millionaire.

and try making a woman jealous of another woman. the first thing most of them will say against the other woman is that she's fat or ugly.

men don't care what other men think. at least not about looks. if we aren't interested in sleeping with you then we don't care what you think of our appearance.

the way i see it:
most women = brutally insecure about their looks. especially the MOST attractive ones, oddly enough.

most men = completely in love with themselves, maybe delusionally so.

if women are competitive with each other over attrativeness, men are competitive with each other over money.

Also, while you may have a point, you're making generalisations too. You should always be wary of talking of "women" or "men", as if what you're saying applies to all members of a certain gender.

who's going to save the world from being saved by mark c?

etc...

you got this from TV

I think huge bums are a turn off in a girl.

Like that's going to help at ALL!!!!!@!@!

http://www.sweetnlow.com/images/home/prod_packets.gif

http://www.rosiesamfrodo.com/users/grate/legolas.jpg

But C-Man, you seem to expect some kind of appplause for stating this before us, ad fricken nauseum, like you're keening for some approval of your pret a porter masculinity...

was this violent vic, or just a guy named vic?

Too early for Calum

Great thread.

Correctly guessed who revived it too

Chubby Chums Are Grateful Girls!
By George Pesante

The trouble with this country is not smog or juvenile delinquency or even TV commercials. The trouble with this country is, that it’s getting so hard to find a fat girl.

Oh, sure, they still exist, and a good thing too, because if they ever do disappear from view, we’re going to have to raise them in special herds like the vanishing buffalo.

But what with all this diet talk and reducing salons springing up to replace the corner pool room, and what with cars getting smaller, lower, the fat girl is being driven out of fashion.

This is too bad. Any man who has played parlor hockey with a fat girl knows that here is a wonderful fund of fun, frolic and felicity.

Unlike slim girls who are the darlings of modern fashion, fat girls get little attention. That means that when a man does bestow his favors upon them, they react like a St. Bernard in a sausage factory.

They laugh, they giggle, they respond to your attentions with happy shrieks. In short, they just lap it up. What’s more, they don’t need to be persuaded. Simply give them the nod and they’re off to the races. And once a fat girl gets herself in motion, she’s awfully hard to stop.

Incidentally, the old belief that fat girls are necessarily jolly girls is only sometimes true. There are plenty of fat girls who are so frustrated by their lack of male attention that they are foul-tempered, mean and sullen.

The majority of them are sunny though, and even the grumpy lumpies will respond much more quickly to a little warmth than the average slim-waisted woman.

Some girls are fat, of course, because they have glandular deficiencies and these are generally to be avoided. Frequently they have moustaches and evil tempers and are so fat as to cause topographical confusion.

On the other hand, a girl who is generously plump, simply because the good Lord made her that way, a girl who likes to eat and drink and have herself a good time — this girl is worth solid gold, all 180 pounds of her.

Another fallacy about fat girls is that they are light on their feet. This isn’t true, most of them are as heavy as all get-out. But it’s pretty easy to get them off their feet. And that’s what really counts.

A fat girl is used to the notiion that people can’t lift her up and toss her around as if she were a ballerina. Consequently, she won’t force you to go through those gymnastics. She’ll arrange herself in such a way as to spare you the grunt and groan preliminaries.

Generally speaking, fat girls have one trait in common which their slimmer sisters do not always enjoy. They tend to have skins as smooth as foam rubber and twice as bouncy.

They cost less to feed than slim girls because they go in heavy for bread and mashed potatoes and show a marked preference for beer.

Because fat girls do not get the rush that slim girls do, they don’t expect to be taken out to fancy places. They don’t expect filet mignon and champagne. The back seat of a car and a pile of sandwiches will do nicely, especially if both the sandwiches and the back seat are big.

Fat girls tend to live alone more often than slim girls. They need more room around them and also, they are embarrassed by their slimmer roommates. This makes it much easier to date a fat girl, and what’s more, to make the date pay off.

Needless to say, fat girls are a joy in the wintertime, because there’s nothing more comforting than to find yourself enfolded by great mounds of curvy girl. They are equally delightful in the summer time, however, because they like nothing on but the electric fan. And, after all, what could be more fun than that?

stop posting economist articles here

ethan, do you:

(A) Just surf the internet normally and C&P any fucked up thing you find, which, as a result of your normal surfing habits, end up being pretty screwy...

or

(B) Actively seek out the fucked up things, and C&P for us the cream of the crop?

Either way, my god, your poor brain.

Big bone-ded! ba-dum crash!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzPP0wTj8Xs&feature=related

who's going to save the world from being saved by mark c?

-- RJG (RJG), Saturday, 17 July 2004 Bookmark Link

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ME!!!!!!!
-- RJG (RJG), Saturday, 17 July 2004

ZAFTIG, mentioned above, appears late in Jonathan Lethem's novel THE FORTRESS OF SOLITUDE. I understood the word so little I had to look it up. I'm still not sure I understand it, and perhaps I understand it even less after seeing its use on this thread.

George Pesante

Passantino's new pen name found!

Seriously, could any c-man or c-woman here really, honestly, be dating a person? An honest answer is required.
-- ken c (ken c), Friday, 16 July 2004

ha zaftig. margaret cho uses that word best.

to mean ... what?

chubster

gosh, I don't think that's what Lethem meant by it. Maybe I will report back on this. It's in the last quarter or so of TFoS, when Dylan Ebdus, invisible, sees a female prison guard and thinks admiringly that she's zaftig.

margaret had a great gig about how her producers were telling her she was zaftig. and then at a restaurant she heard the waitress say "zaftig, perhaps?" but really she was saying "a soft drink, perhaps?"

mwahaha

yeah, it means thick in the good way.

Curvy, soft. Pudgy maybe but in an erm extremely feminine way. Alternately it could just mean "busty".

Also I don't know if you'd call a petite girl with a big rack "zaftig", I feel like there are connotations of stature as well, like, y'know "a lot of woman".

sounds like my kind of tig, I mean, ting, I mean, thing.

so is like rose mcgowan a good example of zaftig or is she still too skinny?

Far too skinny surely!

She's not remotely chubby, is she?

A famously nearly nude Hollywood starlet like RMcG? Totally, totally way way too skinny unless you mean merely in comparison to a runway model.

no, especeially not these days, but she's always pulled off that beautiful voluptuous thing

right, right, i know you're right.

Jess needs to be here to properly define this

Charlotte Church?

RIP Jess's definitions

Re Charlotte Church, a quick GIS says "maybe, depending on which photo yer talking about" to me.

She is zaftig these days

The point is sort of that zaftig is a folk term, and was born from the Ashkenazic population of sort of famously peasant-y Eastern Europeans (I think, don't ask me to trace it back any farther). I would say that a) it's all relative, and b) there's an essential earthiness or hmm... suggestion of bounty, fertility.

sounds otm to me

zaf·tig Audio Help /ˈzɑftɪk, -tɪg/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[zahf-tik, -tig] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective Slang.
1. Gianna Michaels, fer real

http://bengals.hp.infoseek.co.jp/pict/past_player/ickey_shuffle03.jpg

180 lbs isn't fat! Not if you're tall, anyway. I mean it's not skinny, either...was that article written by an R. Crumb of 1918?

Funnily enough I was watching the new American Gladiators show last night and they give height and weight for the glads -- and none of the women was admitted to be over 155 lbs even though they ranged from 5'7" to 5'10" and clearly all had shoulders and thighs the size of quarterbacks'. I do respectfully suggest that that is extremely unlikely; 180 sounds far more probable (and healthful).

i would suggest that you are right about that

are fat girls really sluttier??

okay, SLUTTIER is not the word.
easier to get in the sack?

i guess as a ZAFTIG girl myself I should know the answer to that

Googled for the legernd that is George Pesante and found that the article is from a 1962 bongo mag:

http://www.erosblog.com/2008/07/17/chubby-girl-1962/

(nsfw pic, btw)