Time Magazine on ILXers: just a bunch of 'TWIXTERS'?

Having parents who have never once said this to me = a blessing.

Melrose Place II (or XVIII or whatever)!

Speaking as an only child with no blood aunts or uncles that want to have kids of their own.. I'm really happy my grandmother and mom haven't pressured me similarly either.. although my grandmother will always tell me things like "one time, you will meet a nice girl and have kids and you'll look back at these times and laugh" in the middle of conversations, subtlely.

THE STATSCOCK!

1) Housing has never been so expensive;
2) Health care has never been so expensive; and
3) Employers hire only grudgingly, try not to pay as much as the contemporary cost of living would require, and are trying to get away from the concept of employer-sponsored health care.

Given these economic circumstances, isn't it only pragmatic to not be eager to become parents?

Jeez, nevermind that most people turn 22 senior year. Dumbasses.

http://amine.laggoune.free.fr/14%20jack%20dans%20easy%20rider.jpg

the impossible cost of college is a huge cultural/economic/should-be political issue no one wants to touch. no one can afford the loans AND rent, they stay at home or default, don't have money/credit to buy a house, housing costs are insane, etc. etc.

also, it should probably be remembered who Time's primary audience is: middle-aged suburban folken who probably have the full time job and kids who are probably just getting into their early-mid 20s.

WHO ARE THESE VAGUE EXPERTS???

HOW CAN I MAKE THEIR INCOME???

HOW CAN I MAKE THEIR INCOME???

-- Snappy (jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj...), January 20th, 2005.

OTM!

me!

:::sigh::::

I knew it was only a matter of time (pardon the pun) before I was invoked here. Suffice to say, Lev Grossman (the writer of the piece in question) is a perfectly nice gent who once leant me a DVD (well, actually, he leant a senior editor the DVD in question, who in turn leant it to me without him knowing it), but I can't say I really know the guy. Whatever.

"Diese Seite befindet sich in der Überarbeitung..."

"This site is in revision..."

bah, damn twixters can't even get a website running

4) there aren't as many jobs as there once were because technology and/or layoffs have made those positions obsolete

5) most entry-level jobs are SHIT and don't give young employees much enthusiasm or morale

6) sometimes people have to take TWO shit jobs to make ends meet and there's hardly any time left to eat or sleep or shower or any of that other human-being stuff, and some people actually prefer being unemployed or semi-employed to seeing their best years eaten alive

7) that's an awfully irresponsible attitude for a parent to have, but if you DON'T have kids, you're only fucking yourself over

OTM. I just switched jobs because even though the pay is comparable the new one is less demanding of my time.

U.S. Census Bureau: About 3-in-10 young adults, ages 25 to 29 in 2002, had completed a bachelor's degree, matching the 2000 record high.

"most of us"?

This is one of those articles that seems like it's written based on co-workers' family anecdotes. (Not to pick on Time, I've seen similar things in the NYT and elsewhere.)

yeah, and the slackers who are now in their mid-to-late thirties are as cynical about the state of things as they were ten years ago.

"They're well aware of the fact that they will not work for the same company for the rest of their life," says Bill Frey, a demographer with the Brookings Institution, a think tank based in Washington. "They don't think long-term about health care or Social Security. They're concerned about their careers and immediate gratification."

Maybe they saw one or both of their parents laid-off and saw first hand how things really works.

"My problem is I'm really overstimulated by everything," Galantha says. "I feel there's too much information out there at all times. There are too many doors, too many people, too much competition."

And just how many "twixters" are comfortable and well-adjusted with this? Did you interview them?

Marketers have picked up on the fact that twixters on their personal voyages of discovery tend to buy lots of stuff along the way.

Again with the condescension. Sometimes buying lots of stuff is a great way to keep yourself from thinking about how shitty things are.

The situation is analogous to their promiscuous job-hopping behavior—like Goldilocks, they want to find the one that's just right-but it can give them a cynical, promiscuous vibe too. Arnett is worried that if anything, twixters are too romantic. I'm 47—they looked at it much more practically. I think a lot of people are going to end up being disappointed with the person that's snoring next to them by the time they've been married for a few years and they realize it doesn’t work that way."

And he's accusing twixters of being "too cynical?" Maybe twixters realize that relationships are the one thing they can control in a society that appears stacked against them.

If twixters are ever going to grow up, they need the means to do it—and they will have to want to. There are joys and satisfactions that come with assuming adult responsibility, though you won’t see them on MTV's Real World.

Adult responsibility as defined by who? Do all twixters watch The Real World? Do all social scientists now sleep with a copy of Bowling Alone under their pillow?

Me to thread. I've lived away from home since 18 and never moved back. Ive been unemployed on occasion but mostly managed ok - but I could never hope to buy a property.

I thought working in one job was frowned upon in this modern age of multitasking.

Also, the social security/health thing must be a US thing because in Australia, any job you get you still have health benefits for nothing (Medicare) and superannuation is compulsory so we'll manage somehow. I hope.

Maybe they saw one or both of their parents laid-off and saw first hand how things really works.

"My problem is I'm really overstimulated by everything," Galantha says. "I feel there's too much information out there at all times. There are too many doors, too many people, too much competition."

And just how many "twixters" are comfortable and well-adjusted with this? Did you interview them?

Marketers have picked up on the fact that twixters on their personal voyages of discovery tend to buy lots of stuff along the way.

Again with the condescension. Sometimes buying lots of stuff is a great way to keep yourself from thinking about how shitty things are.

The situation is analogous to their promiscuous job-hopping behavior—like Goldilocks, they want to find the one that's just right-but it can give them a cynical, promiscuous vibe too. Arnett is worried that if anything, twixters are too romantic. I'm 47—they looked at it much more practically. I think a lot of people are going to end up being disappointed with the person that's snoring next to them by the time they've been married for a few years and they realize it doesn’t work that way."

And he's accusing twixters of being "too cynical?" Maybe twixters realize that relationships are the one thing they can control in a society that appears stacked against them.

If twixters are ever going to grow up, they need the means to do it—and they will have to want to. There are joys and satisfactions that come with assuming adult responsibility, though you won’t see them on MTV's Real World.

Adult responsibility as defined by who? Do all twixters watch The Real World? Do all social scientists now sleep with a copy of Bowling Alone under their pillow?

-- Gator Magoon (quartzcit...), January 20th, 2005.

OTM

I just read that whole article. Good Lord. The equation of adulthood as such with home-owning and child-rearing . . . So poor people who can't buy their own homes apparently aren't adults, and neither are queers. Thanks TIME magazine, love ya!

at least, the ideas of them are. doing something to help the actual infants/children/mothers who need assistance...well, that's another story, it seems.

Still, as was mentioned elsewhere, it's nice that to "grow up" and "become an adult", all you need ot do is just have a kid and get a job forever. Are you a pregnant 15-year-old with a gig as a cashier at Sears? Congrats! You'll be a full-fledged mature taxpaying adult in a few months.

heh. "Girlllll, you'll be a womannnn, sooooonn....."

"What are they waiting for? Who are these permanent adolescents, these twentysomething Peter Pans? And why can't they grow up?"

Well, Lev, it's not really any of your business, but since you asked... I've never wanted to procreate. The very thought disgusts me. Two people's flaws compounded into a mini-version of... hey, Mr. Grossman, come back! I haven't answered the other questions yet!

As it happens, parents buy more stuff, accumulate more debt, and are easier to control. Babies feed the industrial machine. That's their interest in fucking with your head. This is incidental to the reasons why you might want to have a baby or be a parent. There are many good things about parenthood, too - but choose it according to your own needs and desires, not because of bullshit Time magazine articles that call you funny names.

Ha ha! Tame magazine! Tomb magazine! Ha ha! Lame magazine!

I see very little indication that people in the non-urbanized parts of the country are conducting their affairs any differently than usual, though I have to admit my evidence is restricted to a married-out-of-college smaller-town cousin and the litigants on Judge Mathis.

Expanding on one of the adulthood-impediments above: maybe it’s just me but I do feel like the kinds of positions available to people in my age group—particularly at a just-out-of-undergrad stage—were very defiantly not the sorts of jobs that were geared to allow anyone to make a career out of them, a fact which immediately torpedoes any notion of a settle-down; there are certain industries where you can at least look far far ahead and work on some vague assumption that with heroic work you should move in reasonable career directions, but a lot of the grand corporate service-based positions people fell into didn’t seem to hold that forth at all.

But so the one thing that I think makes this criticism thorny is that I’m constantly surprised by how many women I know who are essentially in that sort of state but do profess that they firmly desire to marry and have children. I think the extension of what was previously thought of as one’s twenties, in major-major cities, blunts the shrill warnings of those countless nobody-will-marry-you-after-30 studies; but sometimes I wonder if this sort of thing creates more fright or dissonance for women than it does for men?

But: I also came to the realization only a couple weeks ago that as people in my age group do start to get married, there will eventually be fewer people for me to choose from. (This because I heard that a couple women I'd had crushes on in college are now engaged, heh.) I mean, I'm happy putting off marriage for a good, long time, but that was a sobering thought. (Although then I figured, okay, that just means that I'll date younger women!)

Instead of bemoaning our fate, Time should have congratulated us: "People now stay cooler for way longer! They're unboring and social and know about contemporary pop music well into their thirties!"

Anyway, what I want to know is WHERE'S THE MONEY, MOM & DAD??? If I'm a Twixter, I'd like to see some of this $2,000 + I'm supposed to be getting annually from my parents. I mean, I don't LIVE with either of you, so shouldn't I be compensated for that at least??

furthermore, when this (my) cohort was being raised, we were told to live life to the fullest, have experiences, etc. that was what our 20s were for. and now we're told "no! you should have saved money and settled down! you should have started a family!" well which is it, bub?

i have a feeling my girl (a new poster, welcome her, everyone. her name's liser) will pop on momentarily to talk about nitsuh's thoughts on urban living, especially for a woman. but yes, nitsuh, you are right that living in a city is a way to prolong that state in a comfortable way. in fact, it's really the only comfortable way to live in a city...

I'll start a family if/when I feel goddamn good and ready and should there be a situation where I'd have someone to have a family with. And should said other person not want a family, it's no skin off my nose. Yay me!

That's broken down in countless ways since then, which people of a certain age like to pretend equates to the end of a traditional way of life that stretches eternally backward. But I'm not convinced that it really does stretch back in any real way -- I'm not convinced that the mid-20th-century home-and-family boom wasn't just a momentary result of the right socio-economic conditions. It's impossible to really account for changing social notions, but America from the turn of the century through the Depression doesn't really back them up, I don't think.

the career end of this issue i'm agnostic about, or, more to the point, it reaches into a lot of shit that i'd rather not go into at the moment.

but as to the marriage/kids end of thing: the not-growing-up aspect of my life is a function of actually taking the idea of marriage and kids VERY SERIOUSLY. i come from a family that existed because of my older brother (nice work, dad) and fell apart when i was a teenager. so perhaps i have a wierdly idealized notion of what a family should be, but i know that i can't pull it off now $$-wise and it would be a disaster for the kid if i tried. i'm amazed that both my parents have given vague demurrals when i've asked them why they had me (well maybe i was mistake 2, who knows), like "oh, we just wanted another one". i would never dream of being that louche with someone else's (the potential kid's) life!

I get the same flack where I work now from two coworkers my age. But at the same time, my parents DID NOT give me any money. I went to school entirely on student loans, which they could have done if they'd wanted to do so. Of course, this means I'll be paying off said debt for twenty more years or so...

The other issue is something that older people like to think of as selfishness and I like to think of as a sensible avoidance of total spirit-crushing depressing: most people who grew up middle class and went through higher education are seriously averse to the idea of raising kids in markedly lesser circumstances than they were raised. I mean, you can raise kids on entry-level salary and without health insurance and so on—people do it all the time—but it would mean actively accepting and stepping into the kind of visible, “actual” poverty that “cultural” non-poverty often lets people ignore.

I was about to post a long screed about the perceived class-status of schooling, but nobody needs to hear it. I'll just concur with posts above.

So really, maybe things aren't so dire demographically. There's no guarantee that the children of all these red-staters will themselves turn out red.

i find that, even now, a lot of people are resentful of kids who "get to" go to college. it's like "at age 18 i was out on my own and working three jobs! where's my parade??" like it's my fault my parents had a little cash to shell out so i could go to a state university in the middle of nowhere.

But these people may have a point. A lot of the 'Twixter' BS (as mentioned here or elsewhere) is simply middle-class younger people enjoying the fruits of a middle-class life, education and comfort. (Which is certainly fine and good.)
The world is different for people who couldn't go to college and the angst and aimlessness of the educated youth is difficult for them to understand. They don't have a BA to fall back on or the means to move from place to place on a whim, 'finding' themselves. If resentment exists, it's not really at you or college students, it's at the system that creates two classes of people (in this instance).
But we all grew up in America that doesn't believe in class, so it has to be expressed at individuals.

I would like to think that if I worked for a magazine more suited to my sensibility that I would still have an adorable little baby, but hey,...that's just my take on it.

"STEP OFF, BABY HATERZ!"

I wish I could remember the thread where we talked about this before. I believe that it's no longer true, if it ever was.

kudos to time magazine on this enduring coinage.