I have either become a curmudgeon overnight, or I have PMS

(See?)

(See?)

All is clear. *flees*

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

(It's nothing personal).

You'd probably be mad at me for ducking too, right?

Meh. People want to kill me with guns all the time anyhow.

GRRRRR.

Back in 1993, a dear friend of mine and Donut C. talked to me once on the phone about how she was going through a really bad bout of PMS.

I said something stupid along the lines of "I can imagine how that might feel."

About twenty minutes later, after a full detailing of what it can feel like combined with various references to my boneheaded nature, she then made it clear that all would be well in future if I never spoke lightly or uninformedly about the subject again. I have taken this knowledge to heart since then.

Not very emo.

OH GREAT YOU'VE GONE AND MADE THIS RACING PUG CRY

HE'LL NEVER RACE AGAIN!

OH NOES

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(xpost)

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- Woodstock

Start taking a calcium, magnesium, zinc supplement. No, seriously. This is the holy grail of erradicating or ameliorating bad symptoms of PMS. It totally eliminates the horrible physical "burning baseball bat of pain up yer yingyang" cramps, and does a lot to make the OHMIGOD, KILL KILL I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL IF I HAVE TO SHRED YOUR SOULS WITH MY TEETH mental anguish.

Start it at about two weeks before yer period. Or, just carry on taking it all month long, because it's good for other stuffs.

Hope that helps!

It's the only explanation. Mine keeps getting earlier and earlier. Which at least explains why I have been a Woman On The Edge for the last week. (Oh the usual, eating jags, you-think-I'm-fat conversations, being really short with housemate's girlfriend for repeatedly ringing the doorbell and eating my brocolli, crying at Balham tube station because I got the wrong train from Victoria etc etc.)

because as we all know, nothing pisses luna off like a drink and a fuck. Makes her ANGRY!

How long do bouts of PMS last? A couple of days? A week?

To make a very long and very painful story very short, the wife and I had a knock'down/drag'out fight yesterday (about my hopeless job situation....this is not the fist time we've had this fight), but ever since (even after tempers cooled), I'm still in the dog house.

Since that argument yesterday morning, my wife is sort've not talking to me. I mean, she'll answer my questions (usually with little more than a single syllable), but she won't engage in any conversation on her own. She's been listless and evasive. I don't know if she's simpy PMS'ing or she's still fuming about what we discussed yesterday or it's something else, but it's as bad as it has ever been, and I simply don't know what to do. I've asked her time and again to tell me what's wrong, but she just says "nothing," but that's clearly a stack of bullshit. It's like she's a completely different person.

Indeed. Also whatever you do Alex, DONT say "are you PMSing?" to her. Even if it is true, she WILL kill you.

I am indeed a whistleheaded dingbat from time to time, Tracye, but I'm not THAT stupid. I know better than to even say words that sound like any of the words involved.

That said, I'm absolutely destroyed by this. She hasn't even called me this evening at the office (which is our usual practice). I'm like a leper to her, it seems.

At the moment, there is barely any semblance of discussion about ANYthing.

Well, she's had PMS before -- if this even is PMS -- and it's usually pretty pronounced, but this is a whole new strain of it (perhaps augmented by genuine grievances).

yeah and totally get a sitter when you have the convo. even with the door closed l'il one can hear it if it gets too heated. not that i need to tell you that, but.

Well, unfortunately, one doesn't plan to have big fights. It just erupted when it did, and the baby was in the room and was alarmed (as was I). She's been fine and chirpy though since (despite the chilly gloom in the rest of the household). I was out with the baby for most of the day anyway. Honestly, I don't know if this chill will result in a "big convo," though. I don't think it's wise for me to keep asking her what's wrong (she's clearly in no mood to disclose whatever it is). Right now, I'm just keeping my head down and my mouth shut and being as accomodating as possible. But it's tearing me up.

(You're in Belgium, eh? You going to be around when I'm there next week? Or have you already posted on that thread?)

There's nothing else for it - you'll just have to make some madly romantic gesture, something inexpensive but deeply meaningful. Go and take a photograph of the first place you ever went on a date together (or something along those lines), turn it into a card, write something soppy in it about how much you love her, and enclose a mix-CD of music which means something to her (the song they played for your first dance at your wedding reception, the first track you played for Charlotte after she was born, I dunno, whatever is special and shows you've really thought about it).

Then she will cry, and you can do the make-up bit.

i don't mean to be unkind, but don't you think that this behavior might seem to him like you're playing guessing games (wanting him to guess what he did wrong)? i mean, with the example you give, it seems easy for him to make the connection. but i still don't understand why it's so hard to say "you know, it really bothers me that you stayed out so late last night, got drunk, and didn't even call me. i was really worried, and felt totally dissed besides".

i don't know, the whole mind-reader/"you should KNOW what you've done" thing, that's always seemed like a bit of a power-play to me, and a surefire way to poison the well in a relationship. it's one thing if someone needs time to cool off, or to think of how to articulate what the problem is. but generally i think people need to take responsibility for owning up to what's bothering them, if they want their relationship to be built on trust and communication, instead of games and resentment. because if you* put your partner in the role of the penitent who has to guess what he/she did wrong, you can bet your life savings that they're going to start quietly resenting you, bit by bit.

*(not "you" as in CJ)

In my own case, I think my (sometime) reluctance to say what's bothering me stems from a childhood where there was a certain amount of marital discord between my parents which necessitated me tiptoeing around trying to be the peace-maker and avoiding anything which would bring up more confrontation. For a long time after that, I would actively seek to avoid arguments in my own relationships (something I know is not a particularly great idea, but I thought I was better off stewing over things on my own rather than run the risk of starting something which I feared might escalate into a shouting match, and which I would have found too upsetting).

I am very much better about this now, because The Bloke doesn't let me do this - if things are a bit off the rails (which they're not very often, I hasten to add), he will often initiate the "what's wrong" conversation in a way to which he knows I'll respond and as a result I have learnt not to bottle things up, but I do understand people who do. It's not always necessarily a power play game - at least, not a deliberate or conscious one - but sometimes people have other reasons for avoiding fights.

In my own case, I think my (sometime) reluctance to say what's bothering me stems from a childhood where there was a certain amount of marital discord between my parents which necessitated me tiptoeing around trying to be the peace-maker and avoiding anything which would bring up more confrontation.

i can completely relate to that, i've been in much the same position.

For a long time after that, I would actively seek to avoid arguments in my own relationships

ah, i take the opposite approach because it bugged the shit out of me when my father would walk around in a mood, eyeing each of us as though he loathed us, but not be willing to say what was wrong, or to try to fix it, because at heart he believed (and believes) that if you really loved him, you would KNOW what the problem is.

(something I know is not a particularly great idea, but I thought I was better off stewing over things on my own rather than run the risk of starting something which I feared might escalate into a shouting match, and which I would have found too upsetting).

i think this works ok as long as, working on your own, you can get over whatever's bothering you and (this is the important part) not act bothered in the meantime. we had a rule in one of my relationships that "either we talk about it, or we let it go". (with the right to have a little space and clear one's head first, of course.) unfortunately, many people can't do that, so it defeats the purpose, since the other person can tell you're mad at them, etc. myself, i think i'm pretty good at it. not perfect, but i don't treat my partner like ice if i've decided to let whatever it is slide.

(by the way, i think shouting matches, or at least heated arguments, can be really good for a relationship if handled properly and in moderation. you get a lot of energy out that way, energy that could otherwise turn into lingering resentment because it's being used to keep a lid on your anger.)

he will often initiate the "what's wrong" conversation in a way to which he knows I'll respond

what's his strategy, if i might ask?

It's not always necessarily a power play game - at least, not a deliberate or conscious one - but sometimes people have other reasons for avoiding fights.

that's true, although i think your point about "not a deliberate or conscious one" is key. when you point out to people that they might be acting passive-aggressive, they feel like you're accusing them of sitting there going "mwahaha i have them under my thumb now". when a person is acting on the basis of unconscious drives and beliefs, it's really hard for them to see it; a lot of the time the surface justification is something that seems very reasonable. but if you really get into it, the unconscious fantasies start to show themselves.

Fences mended, but not after another excruciating twenty-four hours of snippy, chilly silence. I stopped asking what was wrong and just let it run its course, so to speak. Eventually, last night she came back around, apologizing for being "horrible", etc.

Thanks for everyone's kind words of support and advice.

PMS is irrefutable evidence of a decidedly NON-beneficent deity.

people feel the same way about luna

translation: it's happening again.

x-post

But no one else gets to blame my behaviour on that but ME! =)

This is the part that sends me INTO FUCKING ORBIT! Why can't those who are PMS'ing be held accountable? It's like this automatic "Get Out Of Jail Free" card.

Identifying natural female experiences as a disease in need of treatment is highly controversial especially because the implications for all women could be devastating.
Feminist scholars suggest that viewing PMS as a disease is born out of our patriarchal society. The symptoms that are associated with PMS are often in conflict with the way a woman "should" behave. Anger, irritability and increased sex drive are patterns of behavior that go against social norms for woman. Some people believe that PMS, along with other female-attributed disorders, are used to enforce gender stereotypes.[19]
It is notable that the emergence of PMS as a disorder was created during a time when women's roles in society were changing. Particularly, women were beginning to enter the work force at increasing numbers. This coincidence has not been ignored especially among those who believe that PMS is used as a method of social control.
Multiple SSRI's have been used to treat PMS which is not without controversy. The makers of Prozac began marketing the generic form, fluoxetine, under the name Sarafem to treat PMS. This coincided with their loss of patent on Prozac which has lead to suggestions that their motivations are not completely benign.[20] Recently an oral contraceptive named Yaz has become the first and only birth control pill approved to treat PMDD. The marketing of Yaz centers on this aspect of the drug.
In some societies, this part of a women’s life is not seen in a negative way as is most often found in Western countries. The diagnosis and definition of PMS and PMDD are not universal across the world. The belief in PMS and its affects is mainly a Western creation. This is not to say that other places in the world deny the possibility that women are affected by their menstrual cycle but defining PMS in terms of a disease is specific to the West and the United States in particular. Official recognition of PMDD has only taken place in the U.S. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) accepts PMDD as an illness but the World Health Organization (WHO) does not. In Europe, PMDD was forcibly taken off the list of indications for Prozac due to lack of supporting evidence for its effectiveness. Many of the symptoms of these two disorders are seen as negative in the U.S. and in need of treatment. This allows the medical system to become involved and regulate this part of women’s lives.[21]

Yea, we have hormonal imbalances every fucking day.

xpost: Women are much more aggressive than men if verbal agression is counted

Does that make it right?

can males get PMS? cuz i really think i get it every few weeks

-- latebloomer: the Clonus Horror (latebloomer), Thursday, July 7, 2005 4:56 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link
maybe you're just a jerk

-- matlewis, Thursday, July 7, 2005 4:58 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

matlewis otm, lol

But no one else gets to blame my behaviour on that but ME! =)

This is the part that sends me INTO FUCKING ORBIT! Why can't those who are PMS'ing be held accountable?

Hehehe. I should point out I wasn't entirely serious of course. I'm well aware of my savage/irrational moods at those times, and feel pretty bad when I realise I'm snappy over stupid nothings, want to throw things, biting people's heads off etc. I have in fact said "I'm sorry I think I am PMTing" before to explain myself. Amusingly, guys don't want to know anyway theyre all "ewww TMI".

Yucko, anagrams!

This is the part that sends me INTO FUCKING ORBIT!

-- Alex in NYC

damn no one should have to go that far, son! ;_;

I laminated a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" but I learned after showing it to my parents and vice principal it was a very bad thing to use in charged situations.

Max - where did you get that blurb you posted above? Just asking because the medicalization of menstuation (and reproduction in general) is one of the things I'm studying right now.

Seriously -- in like a day or two (PLEASE, God, let it be), she'll be back to her old self, and I'll just have to SWALLOW MY PLANET-IMMOLATING RAGE about how she's been a COMPLETE BEEEEEEEEYOTCH for the last five. WHY can't I bring the fucking hammer down? WHY can't I hold her accountable? WHY does that make ME the irrational one?

erica--wikipedia!!

alex in nyc, the thing is, she is probably using enormous restraint to only be this mean; there is often a significant gap between how horrible i am and how horrible i want to be when i have pms.

WHY can't I hold her accountable? WHY does that make ME the irrational one?

It's a legit question! You should ask her!

Damn, how old IS Charlotte now? Kids grow up so fast.

Charlotte is three and a half, Oliver is one and a half. And I'm forty and at my wits' end.

NYC grinds everybody to powder.

haha I was trying to make a joke about your daughter PMSing. D'oh.

Having never experienced any of the emotional symptoms often attributed to PMS, I can't really offer and personal advice Alex. However, if it's that severe maybe she is one of the really unfortuate who suffer from PMDD. Would she be willing to see someone about it and try some form of therapy (traditional, accupuncture, whatever may help)? It sounds like she's so affected by this that is hugely disruptive to both your lives. That definitely warrants further treatment.

Wooo. I was PMSing pretty bad a few days ago, and the boyfriend and I went out to see our friends play with Dax Riggs (they're his awesome hired guns). I HATE his music with a burning passion and was veering between bored and pissed all night. I told my boyfriend at one point that I wanted him to rip his own face off and reveal himself to be a samurai warrior, charge the stage and cut off Dax's head with a sword.

keep her pregnant, alex. it's the only way....

hah but pregnancy can make you emotional too. :-) and then there's the post-delivery state. :-)

PMS ain't nothin' but love misspelled.

there is often a significant gap between how horrible i am and how horrible i want to be when i have pms. every fucking second of my life

Whether there is any actual correlation or not, Ms Lostandfound certainly got way, way more scary after we had our first and only child. Her cycle became more erratic, for sure, but there was no official Post Partum Depression or anything like that. In fact, it's so mysterious that I call it (we call it, while laughing nervously across chilly spaces, and only during certain semi-safe times) Post-Partum Premenstrual Perimenopausal BiPolar Cyclothymism. I mean, at some point, we could all blame our hormones/emotional disorders for being utter cuntfaces, but we don't. It's like if I got mad and tore a door off of its hinges and punched a few holes in the drywall and blamed it on testosterone or the PTSD I got from my childhood sexual abuse!

Ha ha, that came out of nowhere, really. And I'm actually a lot more balanced with this stuff than I first appear ;)

My motivation was to reassure Alex he isn't alone, that I've experienced something similarly bewildering and life-changing, but that also, it isn't just about me (or Alex, or whoever)...

A friend of mine didn't get the "baby blues" after her delivery. She called it: RED HOT STAGE because she was constantly angry. I do understand how she felt. PMS might be a bitch (hah!) but, man, do your hormones fuck you up after a delivery or WHAT? I don't have that big of a PMS problem (hah! in denial or WOT?). Actually I should ask my husband. I think I do get a bit more mental than usual but overall I think I tend to "implode"' more maybe?

Jody, if I lived in NY, I would be knocking off work now to go out with you for chocolatinis. Fuck you west coast!

i'm on the west coast now, luna! (think she would show up?)

lol

How are the chocolatinis on the west coast?

probably the same as anywhere else?

Remember them this way.