North Korea: Someone Set Us Up The Bomb

HEY WAIT, AYATOLLAH, STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING, SEVERE REPERCUSSIONS, DUDE, I AM SERIOUS

TOMBOT STILL HAS 2.5 YEARS LEFT ON INACTIVE RESERVE STATUS AND IS NOT HAPPY WITH THIS "NEWS"

xpost

Half-cremated remains? That is some gruesome shit.

Can't the US threaten Iran for a week straight without Kim Jong Il getting a complex about it?

It appears that you are very desperate for attention. Yes, yes, I know, we have all known for a long time that you actually have weaponry, unlike most other countries that the United States decides to, um, altercate with. But we all know this, about the bombs; you aren't doing anything new.

What you need to realize is that communism is so 15 years ago now. I mean, no one cares! Seriously. Nice outfits, though. Anyway, you have to ditch that. Forget about your Soviet weaponry too, you don't need it.

What you need to do is become crazed Confucian fundamentalists and blow up a couple buildings, or even just send threatening letters to the President referencing Confucius. You will feel the pressure of the Order of Teutonic KnightsUS Military in no time whatsoever!

Remember, in order for them to make you feel like a bad, bad boy, you have to make the President feel special too. You just aren't working it right now.

Sincerely,
Ally

good thing i'm getting some practice in by playing this first

remember folks, after the bombs finally stop, beware of the giant radiated scorpions. they'll REALLY ruin your day.

I can't look at that picture without thinking of the "I'm so Ronry" song.

Anyway, Iran's still way higher on Bushfuck's shitlist than North Korea. Also: I've tried to toe a certain line of political moderation over the past year or so, and in the past week I've found it totally impossible. I guess I'll come out as totally, diametrically, impossibly opposed to the current regime with a sureness-of-mind I haven't felt for anybody but Raygun. Somebody resurrect Adorno and stick him up for office, 'cus he's our only hope.

Also the Heavy Guns skill seems really cool but is actually useless.

i have yet to encounter the Tardis, tho

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/world/asia/us-analysts-see-opportunity-if-north-korea-tests-nuclear-bomb.html

boom

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-test.html?

ot i read this recently and thought it was quite good:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/55627/1982523-pyongyang__a_journey_in_north_korea__26__2005____page_1_large.jpg

north korea confirmed the test today

oh boy

About a lucky man who made the grade
And though the news was rather sad
Well, I just had to laugh

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/02/16/report_north_korea_ready_to_carry_out_new_nuclear_test.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D6GO7GlVjc

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2013/03/04/world/asia/ap-un-un-north-korea.html

Well, this doesn't seem particularly good:

North Korea is vowing to cancel the 1953 Korean War cease-fire because of sanctions and ongoing U.S.-South Korean joint military drills.

North Korea's Korean People's Army Supreme Command made the statement Tuesday amid reports that Washington and North Korean ally Beijing have approved a draft of punishing resolutions that is expected to be circulated among U.N. Security Council members this week. North Korea's latest nuclear test on Feb. 12 was its third. The United States and others worry that North Korea is pushing closer toward its goal of having nuclear-armed missiles that can reach America.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/07/us-korea-north-attack-idUSBRE9260BR20130307

(Reuters) - North Korea threatened the United States on Thursday with a preemptive nuclear strike, raising the level of rhetoric as the U.N. Security Council approved new sanctions against the reclusive country.

Man, I really hope NK doesn't nuke the US.

I can't possibly be the only person on ilx concerned about NK taking nuclear hostages in a week, right?

it's bizarre how no one is really talking about it either. this is the entirety of the front page coverage the threats are getting on the NYT (the new sanctions have more prominent billing):

http://i45.tinypic.com/2n711f4.png

1) No one believes NK has the wherewithal/technology to do this
2) No one believe NK has a death wish

The bluster might be bigger, but it really begs the world to call its bluff.

I got to think the Chinese have enough sway in the KPA and probably operatives in place in North Korea pull off a coup d'état if someone at the top actually thought about really hitting the button and blowing up the Korean penninsula and other things. Ultimately at this point the NK have been a good tool for China to use to goad South Korea, the US and Japan over the years but only to the point they start screwing with business and China making cold cash.

The last couple times NK got really nuts with this stuff China smacked them across the chops and cut off their oil to bring them to heel and that rhetoric wasn't quite vitriolic as this lunacy the last couple of days and it was with the old weirdo. I got to think their patience with 'junior' is going to be bit less in the end and you would have to think there are Army and Govt. cats in that country that know they could clean up and get some real cash if just get to be Myanmar crazy and not try to be Dr. Doom.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/03/11/north_korean_pastoral

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_images/130307_farmerslift.jpg

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_images/130307_DPRKguide.jpg

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_images/130307_0_cornfield800.jpg

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_images/130307_cinema.jpg

Man, I really hope NK doesn't nuke the US.

― Mordy, Thursday, March 7, 2013 10:13 PM

plz i beg allah to let this happen http://rr-bb.com/images/smilies/pray.gif

i'd be pretty bummed

http://rr-bb.com/images/smilies/Nukes.gifhttp://rr-bb.com/image.php?u=1319&dateline=1229327194

don't allah, don't do it

I cannot allah this sort of behavior to happen

I got to think the Chinese have enough sway in the KPA and probably operatives in place in North Korea pull off a coup d'état if someone at the top actually thought about really hitting the button and blowing up the Korean penninsula and other things.

^^^^this

there are at least a half dozen reasons NK will never nuke the US

I dont take much of what they threaten seriously however keep the rumors of war coming as it just brings me one step closer to home and to look upon His face http://rr-bb.com/images/smilies/yeah.gif

I don't disagree that China still has significant sway over NK but it seems clearly like NK is pushing back against that? Even China has been participating in the sanctions now and NK could certainly do damage before China could orchestrate a coup d'etat. xp

i've been thinking a lot about MAD recently

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4038/4274675847_8db8fdffbc_m.jpg

whatever damage they do would mean mutually assured destruction, which basically requires that everyone involved at the top of the Korean power structure be a) completely insane and b) completely resistant to Chinese overtures.

i don't really believe in MAD. there's no reason to believe that nations operate more rationally than individuals (possibly less) and the proliferation of guns doesn't decrease gun violence, so why should the proliferation of nuclear weapons decrease nuclear violence? we've lucked out to date but the more countries have nuclear weapons the more likely we'll see a nuclear exchange imo.

There are a lot of intermediate acts of violence before total nuclear war that are bad enough to precipitate total nuclear war that don't require leadership to be irrational actors, just short-sighted ones.

and i don't think everyone at the top of a power structure has to be completely insane for an exchange to occur -- cf cuban missile crisis for an example of how otherwise reasonable structures can come close to nuclear event (okay it didn't occur there but it came very close). i do agree that Chinese overtures should be able to mitigate those threats but as lil Kim becomes more bellicose + China becomes more alienated from his government we're heading towards a period where - idk - I could anticipate NK threatening to attack SK if all sanctions aren't dropped, etc, etc.

NK has nothing to gain from initiating any conflict because they will be crushed in retaliation. they do, however, gain from continually threatening conflict. which is why the latter continues to be much more likely than the former. unless NK's power structure is completely loony.

NK has done more than threaten conflict over the years. You could say it's a rational move to put a credible edge on larger threats, but violence has a way of escalating.

NK has initiated conflict numerous times since '53 including as recently as like 2010!

hm... i guess when you put it that way, it does feel a little more reassuring that they've managed not to take things beyond the point of no return so far.

the unlikelihood of gaining tangible benefits from going to war has not stopped countries from going to war over history so why would NK be different?

well, they also haven't had a reliable way to deliver nuclear payloads until very recently

sure they've initiated tons of piddly shit - as soon as they do something big like, oh I dunno NUKING THE US (or even attempting to nuke the US by firing a rocket at us or something), as you suggest, they are doomed.

oh, i don't think they're going to nuke or attempt to nuke the US. that's silly. i think they'll use the threat of a nuclear attack on China or SK in negotiations

or at least it's silly atm. they'd have to develop better tech first from what i understand before they could drop a nuke on cali

wait you think they will threaten to nuke China? that's even sillier. "Hey country that's fed, nurtured, and protected us and could also destroy us at the drop of a hat - BOOM HOW YA LIKE ME NOW"

there are ways of saber-rattling consistent with NK's rhetoric so far that could be construed/coded as threats to nuke china, yes.

like "we will protect the sovereignty of our homeland against all parties *WINK WINK*"

it's not like north korea has acted like a particularly rational nation state until now? (also at this point the ppl are mostly fed + nurtured by NGOs afaik - though Chinese aid is probably a part of that)

they'd have to develop better tech first from what i understand before they could drop a nuke on cali

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21710644
If NK have a small enough nuclear device to fit on one of their rockets and if largest of said rockets can be made to work reliably and if it doesn't get shot down while passing over either China or Russia, and if the wind's blowing the right direction and there's a blue moon, then maybe they could hit Alaska or clip the edge of Canada.

oh, i don't think they're going to nuke or attempt to nuke the US. that's silly. i think they'll use the threat of a nuclear attack on China or SK in negotiations

― Mordy, Monday, March 11, 2013 8:05 PM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what the hell are you doing itt man

gee I hope NK doesn't nuke the US

Nations aren't rational actors u guys

nah NK won't nuke the US that'd be silly

or at least it's silly atm. they'd have to develop better tech first from what i understand before they could drop a nuke on cali

http://www.fatwallet.com/static/attachments/186245_stretch_armstrong.jpg

"oh, i don't think they're going to nuke or attempt to nuke the US. that's silly. i think they'll use the threat of a nuclear attack on China or SK in negotiations"

no nuking the US is silly and they'll just threaten to nuke SK as a negotiating ploy but man if they could nuke the US they totally might do it I'm nervous guys

u're kinda dumb huh

why wouldn't they nuke SK or Japan while they're at it

what's your argument exactly? that you find MAD really comforting?

u kno heinlein did famously say that a polite world is a nuclear armed world

my argument is that you're all over the fucking place in this thread and it's really weird

Heinlein was an idiot tho

I can't possibly be the only person on ilx concerned about NK taking nuclear hostages in a week, right?

― Mordy, Friday, March 8, 2013 3:14 AM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i understand it's hard to extrapolate tone on the internet so i'll just say that "man, i hope NK doesn't nuke the US" wasn't intended to be a serious declaration of fear.

but matt, plz give me your theory of the case. why did NK nullify their armistice truce today?

bc my theory is that they're planning on using the threat of nuclear weapons to get concessions from China/international community vis-a-vis reestablished conflict w/ SK

oh your theory is that they'll do what they've been doing for 20+ years, you should write a book

I don't see why I should take your post about nuking the US as a joke since you think Iran will nuke Israel at the drop of a hat

http://cdn2.spong.com/artwork/p/r/professorl280477l/_-Professor-Layton-and-the-Curious-Village-DS-_.jpg

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2013/03/kim_jong_un_why_north_korea_s_young_leader_may_be_the_most_frightening_new.html

But the latest eruption is rattling nerves more than usual. It’s not because of Kim Jong-un’s histrionics about transforming Seoul into a “sea of fire”; that’s a perennial in the Kim dynasty’s phrasebook of dire threats. Nor is it because he declared the 1953 armistice, which ended the Korean War, “null and void”; his father and grandfather, Kim Jong-il and Kim Il-sung, the only other past leaders of North Korea, did that a few times as well. Nor is it because he has mobilized the military or ordered the people to prepare for evacuations; this too is par for the totalitarian course.

No, what’s causing many officials and observers to gulp a bit is all that, plus the fact that Kim Jong-un—about 29 and in power for barely a year—is still an unknown quantity.

hes the higgs boson of asian politics

The elder Kims also defied the U.N. and other outsiders when it served their interest, in part because they knew they could count on neighboring China to keep trade and aid flowing. (Beijing’s leaders have recently wagged their fingers at Pyongyang’s transgressions, but little more.) The elders, though, would shrewdly manipulate the enemy’s anxieties. They would make a threat, and wait for the enemy (the United States, South Korea, the U.N., or some combination of the above) to offer a bribe in exchange for their forbearance. They would take the bribe—and they’d forbear. But this new Kim took the promise of a bribe—then went ahead and carried out the threat anyway, even before the payment, in this case desperately needed food, came through. What the hell?

Referring to:

On Feb. 29, 2012, in part as a test of the new leader’s intentions, President Obama agreed to provide the North Koreans with 240,000 tons of food aid if they suspended all missile and nuclear tests. On April 13, before the food began to be shipped, North Korea launched a missile test. Obama canceled the aid and pushed a resolution through the U.N. Security Council, denouncing the launch as a “serious violation” of international law. Kim responded with a public speech, heralding the missile launch as a display of North Korea’s “military superiority” and vowing to resist imperial pressure. Since then, Kim has launched another satellite into space (successfully) and conducted two underground tests of atomic bombs—prompting more condemnations from the Security Council.

Most likely North Korea will go the way of nearly every other system of dictatorship, from Iraq to Albania: it'll suddenly collapse, and we'll all discover everything was so much worse than what we thought we knew, in every sense.

yep. hope it happens in my lifetime, should be interesting

We recently found out that the gulags are much bigger than assumed.

Yeah, despite the lovely North Korea Still Hilarious thread, i think it is well known how fucked up shit is.

oh wait u mean that then regime is in worse shape than we thought?

Yeah.

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/lifestyle/north-korean-tanks-roll-into-washington-1-5496860

oh shit with all the exciting cyprus news i almost missed this gem:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/03/19/north_korea_propaganda_video_shows_simulated_attack_on_washington.html

NOTE to self – never drive a tank in a pencil skirt and heels.

Thanks to my impractical outfit choice, clambering into the back of this Vickers 432 model was an obstacle course in itself as we set off on our journey.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/what-youre-doing-is-weird-and-wrong-small-voice-in,31734/

who knows what this means:
http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2013/03/30/0200000000AEN20130330000500315.HTML

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/03/2013-03-29T091857Z_01_PYO02_RTRIDSP_3_KOREA-NORTH.jpg

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/03/29/a-very-good-sign-that-north-korea-is-bluffing-about-war/

did you see this one?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/03/29/photo-from-kim-jong-uns-war-room-reveals-north-koreas-u-s-mainland-strike-plan/

What do you know, Kim Jong Un’s secret war room contains an iMac, designed with care in California by the same evil American imperialists he is purportedly preparing to destroy. That irony, one imagines, did not make it into the domestic propaganda coverage.

showing pictures of war room maps also seems like a-very-good-sign-north-korea-is-bluffing

they have shiny tables

i'm getting tired of having the conversation where i assure people that north korea will peacefully be absorbed back into the world community in a china 1979 style transition or something that looks similar and they say, "no! he's CUT THE TELEPHONE LINE. war is imminent." nah, man, chill out. i'm with rodman on this.

Look who's going to Disneyland.

i think kim jong-nam was the one headed to disneyland

really want to know what all the generals' ribbons are for

citizenship, first aid, emergency preparedness, swimming...

attendance is the big one, i think

yeah I think you're right

If it was a war on who has the best military hats, I would be worried for the rest of the world.

lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGmgojBCUAAbORc.jpg

I see where MAD was being discussed upthread in the context of a NK nuclear attack on the USA. The problem with that is that there is neither mutuality nor assurance in the destruction brought about by such an attack, bcz even at the most optimistic estimate of its current prowess NK could not destroy the USA, but only a minimal fraction of it - at best.

With the USA still largely intact, we could def negotiate with China about how we could together take out NK without triggering a wider war. SK would probably get sacrificed while all this was being worked out among the big dogs.

NKAD

Why anyone takes these fools seriously is a huge mystery. It's the countries that don't make grandiose implausible threats that you have to worry about, and they do battle economically anyway. North Korea is so pitiful it can't even credibly fake an arsenal.

On the plus side, a North Korean attack would be beautifully choreographed.

coastal skirmishes are tolerated as part of east asian geopolitics but i believe china would intervene in the strongest way possible to avoid a real conflict on the korean peninsula.

the ccp under xi jinping has no ideological stake in north korea-- or maybe you could say that zhongnanhai's ideological relationship to nk is nothing like what most journalists in the west imagine it as, it's far more nuanced and pragmatic. and the view of china, from the north korean side, is far from warm (china has been the target of north korean propaganda as well, going back as far as the korean war, continuing through the 1960s during the sino-soviet split, through the 80s and 90s).

at the end of the day, the workers' party of korea's leadership is primarily interested in maintaining control/sovereignty over the dprk. over the past 60 years, they've manipulated their allies and opponents in the region and internationally in order to stay in power.

there's no attack coming. a serious military attack on south korea would lead to the destruction of the workers' party and the dprk government, within hours of its launch.

dylannn otm

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/03/25/think_again_north_korea

i think this is really smart: http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/applying-diplomatic-deterrence-to-north-korea-by-yoon-young-kwan

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/04/world/asia/north-korea-blocks-workers-from-south-at-border.html?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2013/04/north_korea_threatens_war_could_the_united_states_and_south_korea_accidentally.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/05/north-korea-moves-missiles-east-coast

so 4/10 is the big day?

4/15, birthday of kim il sung?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/02/world/asia/chinese-suspend-editor-who-questioned-north-korea-alliance.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimesworld&_r=0

North Korea, he argued, did not view its relationship with China through the same lens of “friendship sealed in blood” that came from Chinese soldiers’ fighting and dying in the Korean War against the United States. “North Korea does not feel like this at all toward its neighbor,” he wrote.

And in a response to the Chinese policy of urging North Korea to overhaul its economy, Mr. Deng wrote: “Once the door of reform opened, the regime could be overthrown. Why should China maintain relations with a regime and a country that will face failure sooner or later?”

Maybe the kid who runs things now prizes spontaneity.

http://sinonk.com/2013/04/03/the-historical-roots-of-defensive-fundamentalism-in-north-korea-maurizio-riotto/

i've always been wary of people throwing out "confucian" in relation to east asian political systems because it's a think it's frequently misunderstood or is understood in various ways by western thinkers and it's hard to keep track of who's using the word to mean what. indigenous or borrowed sinitic political philosophy is frequently overlooked when examining what's happening in north korea. so, i think that's worth reading, as is the riotto paper: http://sinonk.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/defensive-fundamentalism-in-korea-from-history-to-literature.pdf -- he comes close to convincing me that using "confucian" makes sense in describing the north korean political system, and his analysis of korean literature is fun.

so 4/10 is the big day?

― Mordy, Friday, April 5, 2013 10:21 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark

4/20 i believe is when everything is gonna get lifted

4/20 is so weird bc it's simultaneously the celebration of the best thing and the worst thing in the world

That would explain the kid's behavior a bit more, let alone his love of Rodman. Let's see if he invites Tommy Chong over next. Bong diplomacy?

i hope nk nukes the west coast just to put an end to north korea internet lulz

Korea has a long, deep cultural tradition, and Koreans tend to be very resilient in the face of hardship. It is one reason why the North has not fallen apart.

What is China's relationship with S. Korea?

they cool.

historical tensions (far less complicated or bitter than the historical relationship between china-japan or korea-japan) with the typical east asian territorial disputes (far less complicated or bitter than territorial disputes that sk has with japan and without the fucked up historical background that involves violent invasion and colonization) and with the present disagreement about what to do about north korea + strong historical/cultural links (large korean community in northern china + the importance of historical cultural exchanges between the two people + present massive consumption of korean pop culture in china + both united by hatred of the japanese [their hatreds of the japanese are v different, i think, but whatever brings people together, right?]).

both have tried to move away from less successful authoritarian forms of government (in 2 v different ways obv) and are trying to make a lot of money and not stay in beef.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-south-korea-blase-20130406,0,3032005.story

Although some people expressed fear, the overriding emotions toward the North were irritation and ennui.

i don't agree w/ everything said here but i think it's an interesting thought experiment:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/why-do-we-laugh-at-north-korea-but-fear-iran/274680/

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/print-edition/20130406_ASP001_0.jpg

uh, here's a new propaganda video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua7hlukgLBY

i like the part at 0:55 when the officer gestures with his gun - and points it at his fellow soldier. nice job there!

i guess the lol moment is supposed to be 20 seconds in, though, when a german shepherd attacks a dummy of the south korean defense minister.

jeez! of 1:20 in, when the guy shakes his gun AT THE INTERVIEWER

north korea is certainly leading the world in the fashion forwardness of its military's hats

when the guy shakes his gun AT THE INTERVIEWER

yeah jeez this is like gun safety 101

also, his finger is inside the trigger guard.

also, the dogs are jumping through fire (dog safety 101 ish)

Eh, you can find amateur US militia clips scarier than that.

US militias are generally better armed.

this is really interesting: http://sinonk.com/2013/04/03/the-historical-roots-of-defensive-fundamentalism-in-north-korea-maurizio-riotto/

it is!

if you haven't yet, i'd recommend checking out brian myers' the cleanest race, which covers some of the same ground (roots of korean national, the influence of foreign dicking around with and occupation of korea, incl historical invasions of korea by japan and the slow occupation that ended with annexation in 1910, but also china's historically paternalistic approach toward the korean peninsula which can't be forgotten and still colors sino-korean relations today) but emphasizes korean racial ideology.

just for fun, here's br thrashing bruce cumings http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2004/09/mother-of-all-mothers/303403/

http://sinonk.com/2013/04/06/china-north-korea-dossier-no-4-liu-hongcai/

4th in series, nick miller super inside baseball on liu hongcai, chinese ambassador to north korea.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/13/world/asia/in-seoul-kerry-warns-north-korea-against-missile-test.html

the prc leadership has no interest in conflict on the korean peninsula and they probably still have the greatest influence on north korea's internal politics-- not a huge amount of influence, either. but i don't think china can/will push north korea to denuclearize, especially under american pressure.

and:

A working assumption, however, is that Mr. Kim’s bellicose statements are intended to shore up his power at home and assure the North Korean military that it will retain the first claim on resources — what policy analysts call the “military first” policy.

But that raises the question of how susceptible a North Korean leader who is preoccupied with building up his authority at home might be to outside pressure, let alone the disarmament agenda urged by the United States and its allies.

so, avoiding this constant cycle of confrontation and appeasement is impossible under the leadership of the workers' party of korea.

stepping up sanctions and locking down north korea won't work, even if somehow china came on board. economic engagement has been slightly successful but it's been used as a source of hard currency and legitimization by the north korean leadership. military invasion by anyone + regime change isn't really an option. north korea has withstood horrible famine (and currently malnutrition and people very likely still starving to death), the breakdown of its local authority, and the flow of information/people across a more porous border with china. so, i dunno.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/13/opinion/bomb-north-korea-before-its-too-late.html

I have no idea if we're going to war in NK, but if we do, how many days/weeks away do you think we are?

That would be silly. This is all very silly.

Will probably gin up bipartisan support for reversing spending cuts for defense though.

right, the united states isn't going to war with north korea.

i think the only slight possibility, in the event of things heating up to an insane heretofore unseen totally fucking nuts degree on the korean peninsula and there being serious talk of american military involvement would be china moving in to subdue north korea, with the stated goal of securing the border (if north korea was severely destabilized, there would be a serious problem on the china-north korean border). china isn't in a position to change the leadership of north korea for fear of calling into question its own legitimacy and its historical alliance with north korea, as well as stirring up the anti-chinese sentiment that exists in north korea (according to what we've seen of the historical relationship between the two states in pre-modern times + north korean propaganda). there would be a leadership change in the korean workers party, the new leadership being hand selected by china's ministry of foreign affairs + blessed by korean old guard leadership + backed by the pla. something like that.

china isn't in a position to change the leadership of north korea

they'd have to, as i said, make a leadership change. but it would have to be within the korean workers party.

i'm sure they've indentified elements within the party that could be used for this + at the same time would be interested in economic reforms which would be cool for the north korean elite, the chinese elite and the people starving or relying on food aid from china.

Do North Korea have the capability of blowing Kerry out the sky?

not too sure, buddy

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/04/17/once_upon_a_time_in_pyongyang

All I know is Pyongyang are probably furious about the Boston Marathon bombings

Pay attention to me! Me, me, me!!!!!!

"Dear North Korea, We have a lot of other shit going on right now. Come back for coddling later, you dicks. XOXO, Barack."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWGciuLuH8k

but i'm not convinced that american media coverage is something anyone in the korean leadership is losing sleep over.

how is the united states coddling north korea? i think the united states would do just about anything to avoid involvement in even a minor conflict in east asia.

but i'm not convinced that american media coverage is something anyone in the korean leadership is losing sleep over.

It's their leverage to keep the issue on the table. If we're commiserating about the Boston victims (or West, Texas) and won't pay attention, their gambit loses traction.

so obvs the leadership of NK is deeply pathological, but is it possible they are deeply cynical as well?

i mean, that would be our best hope in a way.

i don't see any reason to believe jung un is a particularly sophisticated operator

yeah but we have no idea who is really making the decisions, and a lot of their decisions seem deeply cynical and opportunistic, and my hope is that this is what will prevent them from going full retard

I bet he and his aunt and her husband are simply livid that the only people talking to them right now are the PRC and their gambit of impressing the rest of the regime with their savvy has turned into a complete dud.

very few people in the rest of the world cares about a pressure cooker bomb blowing an 8 year old kid into several pieces in boston.

the north korean story wasn't really front page news in the united states. there was a lot of skepticism about the importance of the story.

the fact that an 8 year old got blown to pieces doesn't result in american military planners and diplomats and other people watching the north korean situation abandoning their posts to sit around monitoring cnn for updates.

backstage diplomatic moves brought jimmy carter and bill clinton to north korea, rather than nk getting heavy rotation on 24 hour news channels.

i think nk's internal political situation is more complex than team america led you to believe.

Puppet regime, iirc.

http://www.jpost.com/International/UN-North-Korean-supreme-leader-guilty-of-atrocities-strikingly-similar-to-Nazis-341674

yeah so intense

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26252563

One of those selected for the reunions was South Korean Lee Du-young, who is in his late 70s.

"It's hard for people to understand what it's like when you've been separated so long," he told the BBC before he left for the North.

"But it's a true miracle; I'm so elated. All that was missing in my life was my brother, and now that I can see him again, I'd have no regrets whatsoever if I were to die tomorrow."

He said that as well as warm clothing, he would buy his brother chocolate biscuits because he heard they were sought-after treats in North Korea.

the other day i saw a short documentary that surprised me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JRtFyLiOnE
a NK university which exposes students to western ideas and ideology.

well "surprised" ... they are a mass of contradiction allright, i knew the kids from their elite was studying abroad but they are usually so intense about their propaganda that to have such an institution within their borders is yet another odd thing. i assume most of their population don't know about it so it doesn't clash with the official message of their government... makes me wonder, do they really believe their dictator's propaganda ? heard of some expats in SK who made a point of believing it since it gave meaning to their lives, their identity...

what does it mean to say you believe in something you've been coerced into believing?

i would like to think that all NK citizen will be happy to be free when the dictatorship falls but after watching that Repatriation documentary i think it may take a couple of generations before things return to normal: a lot of adults, especially older ppl, probably won't be able to let go of their faith in the ideology that organized their lives.