"The Gates" art installation in Central Park

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Is anyone actually excited by this? It just sort've looks like scaffolding to me. What's the big deal? Do they honestly expect tourists to flock to this?

Explain/defend/discuss

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:03 (twenty-one years ago)

I AM FLOCKING TO THIS

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:05 (twenty-one years ago)

i am pretty psyched to see it, yeah. been a fan of christo and jean-claude for years but never have had the opportunity to see their works in person

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:07 (twenty-one years ago)

except i never usually make it up to central park, so.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:07 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not like it's hard to get there, dude.

― Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not knocking it, but I just don't see it, so to speak. Am going to check it out this weekend and will report back.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:09 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost - no, it isn't. i just can't be bothered to go above 40th street.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:09 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't wait for your bitter take on it, Alex.

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i want to see it up high from a building. christo rocks xpost

― come on sock it to me, Friday, 11 February 2005 05:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Who says my take on it will be bitter? Maybe I'll have an epiphany.

Y'know...or not.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:12 (twenty-one years ago)

actually the only park i go to with any regularity is fort greene park, because it's close.

i will check this out tho, like i said. christo and jean-claude = awesome.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:13 (twenty-one years ago)

evn though, from up there, i fear it may look like a_um giant stream of urine? how very new york city
xpost

― come on sock it to me, Friday, 11 February 2005 05:13 (twenty-one years ago)

You just sort've look like a bitter man to me.

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:14 (twenty-one years ago)

i fear it may look like a_um giant stream of urine?

Is your urine orange, kephm? Stop eating so many carrots.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:14 (twenty-one years ago)

You just sort've look like a bitter man to me.

Funnily enough, someone on another thread recently said things didn't seem to bother me too often. Go know.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I too will head straight for this in the form of a one-man flock.

― Guayaquil, Friday, 11 February 2005 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

the christo and jean claude show at the ago in toronto is fucking amazing

― anthony, Friday, 11 February 2005 05:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I have never understood the Christo point, but these actually look pretty interesting. I'll probably miss them too because I never go to the park and I live 4 blocks away. Maybe I will see them from above?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 11 February 2005 05:23 (twenty-one years ago)

i never eat carrots

xpost:yes, from above man. there we go, i can sleep in peace now.

― come on sock it to me, Friday, 11 February 2005 05:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Christo always sounds goofy, but -- at least from photos I've seen -- his stuff usually looks pretty cool. I've been walking through the park every few days, watching it come together. If nothing else, it's interesting to see such a huge space so dramatically altered. I'm looking forward to seeing it in full flutter. Too bad the snow's gone -- I hope we get some more in the next week or so, because I think that would heighten the effect.

I guess my basic reaction is that it's fun. Also raises lots of potentially interesting artsy-fartsy issues about the nature of the park and public space in general, the role of art, populism vs. elitism (you can make a case for Christo being either or both), etc. But mostly it seems playful -- and for New York in February, playful is an achievement.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 11 February 2005 06:30 (twenty-one years ago)

B--b-b-b-b-b-b-ut are you excited about it?!

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Friday, 11 February 2005 06:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Sure. Like, less excited than I was about seeing M.I.A., more excited than I am about seeing The Aviator.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 11 February 2005 06:41 (twenty-one years ago)

(also, it's free, and I'd have to go out of my way not to see it, since I cut through the park on my way to work)

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 11 February 2005 06:42 (twenty-one years ago)

YOU'D HAVE TO BE A REAL DICK TO HATE ON SOMETHING THAT'S FREE

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Friday, 11 February 2005 06:43 (twenty-one years ago)

FWIW, every one of the Maysles / Christo films is a TREAT.

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Friday, 11 February 2005 06:43 (twenty-one years ago)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0300101384.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

This book is really great if you're interested in Christo or the Gates or if you just like pictures of scaffolding and fabric.

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Friday, 11 February 2005 06:47 (twenty-one years ago)

This looks so cool. More orange outdoor art installations, plz.

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Friday, 11 February 2005 07:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I do think it's funny how all the promotional materials call the color "Saffron," like it's some mystical Buddhist thing. It's orange! (University of Tennessee orange, to be exact -- I'm a little afraid of some drunk Vol alums rampaging through the park with a big 'T' stencil and a case of white spray paint.)

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 11 February 2005 07:07 (twenty-one years ago)

"Tstencil"

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Friday, 11 February 2005 08:09 (twenty-one years ago)

― Remy (x Jeremy), Friday, 11 February 2005 09:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I will be there, looks awesome.

― 57 7th (calstars), Friday, 11 February 2005 20:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I wonder if the scaffolding will fall down and kill someone!

― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 11 February 2005 20:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I was just going to say, didn't Christo kill somebody with his giant umbrellas? STAY AWAY IF YOU LOVE LIFE!

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 11 February 2005 20:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Pfft. I can't wait to get stoned and walk through this.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 11 February 2005 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

NO! IT'S A TRAP!

― n/a (Nick A.), Friday, 11 February 2005 20:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll wait til Presidents Day. I hope they kept this out of the Ramble so as not to interfere with the ~~cruising~~ birdwatching.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 11 February 2005 20:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Me on my first excursion deep into the Ramble: "Boy it sure is nice back here. Not many people either. Oh, except for that guy. Just...standing there. Huh. La la la. Oh look, another guy just...standing there. And, uh, two guys walking up out of the underbrush. And...oh. Right."

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 11 February 2005 21:20 (twenty-one years ago)

pictures of Christo's exhibits taken from above almost always seem much more interesting than experiencing them at eye level (or at least i imagine), which is why the concept of the gates gets me a little more excited then if he had, i dunno, wrapped something. or stuck umbrellas somewhere. however, i wish he could've picked a medium more interesting than gates. doesn't really spark the imagination much. i'm going tomorrow for sure, though...

― lemin (lemin), Friday, 11 February 2005 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, it is 7500 gates, so he's not exactly going soft on this one.

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Saturday, 12 February 2005 00:21 (twenty-one years ago)

My favorite Christo piece ever:

http://ontologicalmuseum.org/bookgiftshop/christo/christo-j-20-the-walloberhausen1999-2611802.jpg

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Saturday, 12 February 2005 00:22 (twenty-one years ago)

GO BIG ARNJ WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

(ps forget that the Lady Vols lost to LSU 2day, kay?)

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 12 February 2005 00:28 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm going to check it out when i'm in nyc in a couple of weeks

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Saturday, 12 February 2005 04:04 (twenty-one years ago)

I won't be in NY again until June. :(

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Saturday, 12 February 2005 06:01 (twenty-one years ago)

It's funny that it's called "the Gates" because of the fabric. Maybe gates in paradise, or in a shopper's paradise.

― youn, Saturday, 12 February 2005 06:07 (twenty-one years ago)

They just devoted a Nightline show to this, and it included a couple Sierra Club members decrying as a travesty on the park, that it "doesn't belong" there because people go to parks to "look at trees," etc.

― nickn (nickn), Saturday, 12 February 2005 08:23 (twenty-one years ago)

the sierra club also hates immigrants, sometimes. sigh.

― hstencil (hstencil), Saturday, 12 February 2005 08:27 (twenty-one years ago)

To the SC's credit, I don't think it was any kind of official position, just that the two (or maybe just one of the two) self-identified as members.

― nickn (nickn), Saturday, 12 February 2005 09:43 (twenty-one years ago)

But it's Buddhist Orange! It's all mystical, man.

Hippies just ain't what they used to be.

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Saturday, 12 February 2005 09:47 (twenty-one years ago)

the sierra club also hates immigrants, sometimes. sigh.

as above, there is a movement of anti-immigration people (who are far more concerned about immigration than "the environment") who joined the sierra club and tried to take over its leadership so that they'd have a left-friendly tie-in/brand.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 12 February 2005 17:06 (twenty-one years ago)

This is being taken down on the Feb. 28 just in case people were going to be putting off seeing it.

― S!monB!rch (Carey), Saturday, 12 February 2005 17:07 (twenty-one years ago)

oh right, this is about 'The Gates'. I sat up in bed this morning and saw a bit of orange out the window!

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 12 February 2005 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

hurrah! a preview of springtime!

― youn, Saturday, 12 February 2005 19:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Just got back from walking through the Gates, around the Great Lawn. Took some pix from Belvedere Castle. I was a little underwhelmed at first, but it sort of "grows on you." Looks best where the Gates are bunched together close and the hanging "flags" flop around in the breeze. Nice to see so many people in the park on a winter day.

Overheard: "These are just like my shower curtains!"

― lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Saturday, 12 February 2005 21:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"It's a waste of money, but it's fabulous," said student Shakana Jayson. "It brings happiness when you look at it."

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Saturday, 12 February 2005 21:48 (twenty-one years ago)

http://ak.imgfarm.com/images/ap/THE_GATES.sff_NYRD102_20050212093608.jpg

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Saturday, 12 February 2005 21:49 (twenty-one years ago)

First chance to see it in the snow today, which I always assumed was part of the idea -- the orange (er, saffron) against the whiteness, etc. Anyway, it was pretty. Still totally thronged, too.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 02:12 (twenty-one years ago)

http://tenyearsofmylife.com/images/20040908.jpg

― The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 02:15 (twenty-one years ago)

what is going on in this picture?

― caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 02:32 (twenty-one years ago)

you are keeping off the tracks, duh!

― Ian John50n (orion), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 02:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Can a picture be OTM? It can now.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 02:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Peter Schjeldahl's Talk of the Town piece is pretty good:

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/index.ssf?050228ta_talk_schjeldahl

― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 03:49 (twenty-one years ago)

O when will the Pinefox have access to a computer to report back?

― youn, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 04:32 (twenty-one years ago)

A special kind of reporting back - full of fancy - but mostly by virtue of his powers of observation - heavy with detail.

― youn, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 04:34 (twenty-one years ago)

and talk of vulgarity.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

you are keeping off the tracks, duh!

it seems as though you are not getting on the train, either.

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 04:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I like that Talk of the Town piece. His discription of the physical/aesthetic blah-ness of it is pretty OTM.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 04:58 (twenty-one years ago)

Schjeldahl should be fired for writing this:

Of course, “The Gates” is art, because what else would it be? Art used to mean paintings and statues. Now it means practically anything human-made that is unclassifiable otherwise. This loss of a commonsense definition is a big art-critical problem, but not in Central Park, not this week.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:00 (twenty-one years ago)

The nylon fabric is sullen to the touch.

Jesus. WHAT. THE FUCK. DOES. THIS. MEAN?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:03 (twenty-one years ago)

it means something to a critic who's still grappling with issues that Duchamp settled almost a century ago. What a douchebag.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:05 (twenty-one years ago)

it means its sort of silky and sensous (sp) i think he is right about the biggest art critical problem right now is the quesiton of defitions, the one that most people are trying to sort (return of the real by foster; hickeys dragon book, etc) and i dont know why he should be fired for saying so---in fact i said something similar wrt ruscha in brown wedge a while back.

wtf are you talking about--duchamp didnt answer a fucking thing, he asked a whole bunch of questions, he destablized the whole fucking thing, and he left the rest of us to pick thru the rubble, which the best artists of the 20th century tried to do, and the worst ones to.

that said i think whats really exciting in new york this month is what i have heard to be an amazing twombly works on paper retrospective at the whitney.

i also find it really interesting that the christos do not think of their work as conceptual---there is something to be said of the cult of the object in their work, and there v. obv connections to old fashioned ideas of craft (esp. the drawings)

― anthony, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:12 (twenty-one years ago)

"the whole bunch of questions" is the answer, anthony.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:17 (twenty-one years ago)

thats absurd--there is no answer to duchamps questions, the impt point is to keep questioning the questions, like a fractal.

― anthony, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:18 (twenty-one years ago)

it's not absurd at all.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't exactly shoot beams of light out of my eyes when I read the part about the definition of art, but I think for the average goer-to-the-gates, who probably isn't also checking out Chelsea galleries and the new Whitney exhibitions all the time, his question is pretty relevant.

And I do find it more difficult to discuss The Gates than a painting -- though I'd never question whether either is "art" -- because I don't feel like I have as much of a vocabulary to discuss a lot of the contemporary art that not so long ago overturned assumptions about art and its presentation.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:21 (twenty-one years ago)

why isnt it

― anthony, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:22 (twenty-one years ago)

an amazing twombly works on paper retrospective at the whitney

Yes! I've heard that's fantastic. There's a Cy Twombley museum in Houston, right near Rothko Chapel and part of the Menil Collection. Ten times more exciting than looking at yet another Warhol across the street. The building itself is lovely, great use of natural light throught a gauzy skylight ceiling, etc. Anyway there's this one room with three GIANT canvasses, mostly white with spatters of blood red and plasma yellow and scribbles and ink spills, and it looks like the artist killed himself in there. It's madness, and it's palpable. One of the most charged rooms I've ever been in.

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never seen sullen used that way. The fabric really isn't silky or sensuous: it feels like any number of heavy-duty fabrics, like a woven plastic tarp, but much friendlier to the touch. To describe the texture of fabric as "sullen" stretches my ability to make poetry out of a word: at first I thought he purposely mixing a metaphor, or something.

People who've been comparing the color to safety cones are, I think, somewhat off the mark: when I visited the Park today there was a cone in the snow, right next to a gate, and that color is harsher, redder than the gates' saffron. I'm not sure it's saffron, either...but it is somewhat close to the orange used in the branding of vaguely progressive and novel companies. I'm not complaining; this is not a complaint -- I'm very fond of it as a color, partly due to its connection to the sun, partly due to its oddness. This has changed somewhat in recent years, but I don't know too many people who really really love having bright orange all over the homes or on their bodies.

You could say that by "leaving the rest of us to pick through the rubble," Duchamp really did leave one issue settled rather definitively, that (to stretch the metaphor) to create art now, you have no choice to pick through the rubble.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I sort of agree about Duchamp. I often feel like, "Ok, so we've taken art out of the confinement of the gallery, we've killed and resurrected and killed the artist, we've done away with classical ideas of "technique", we've upheld things formerly not considered valid as valid ad infinitum, now what?" Not "Now what?" as in "I prefer the old ways" but just "Now what?"

xpost: I didn't take the safety cone comparison to be only about the color, more just about a banal arrangement of evenly-spaced bright orange things along the sides of a path.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:29 (twenty-one years ago)

all the TotT dude is asserting is that an alleged piece of art must satisfy some personal/subjective criteria, what's controversial?

― Aaron A., Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:31 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, you know what they really remind me of? Wandering around any number of Myst-related landscapes where there's always mindboggling loads of seemingly useless decorative architecture placed in the natural environment.

Also: walking under scaffolding or elevated subway lines.

Also, from Nathan Silver in Lost New York: "Temporary festival structures are works which are generally associated with the late Renaissance and Baroque. Yet the idea of building a decorative arch, rather than a mere reviewing stand, still seems appropriate for public ceremonies..."

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:39 (twenty-one years ago)

(Plus some stuff about "the threshold" and the arched gateway in The Arcades Project [Convolute C] but that's probably too pretentious of me to quote in full.)

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 05:41 (twenty-one years ago)

I was pretty proud of the bad joke I made when I visited:

Me: You know, I also have an installation in Central Park.
Friend: What's that?
Me: (pointing to sewer) It's called "The Grates"

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 06:00 (twenty-one years ago)

tell me more about lost new york

― anthony, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 06:01 (twenty-one years ago)

"Temporary festival structures are works which are generally associated with the late Renaissance and Baroque. Yet the idea of building a decorative arch, rather than a mere reviewing stand, still seems appropriate for public ceremonies..."

Actually, one of my first impressions was that of being on the walkway to one of those outdoor festival theatres like Ravinia or Wolf Trapp.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 06:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry, I think that's Wolf Trap.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 06:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Lost New York, originally published after Penn Station was demolished, was a picture book detailing all the fabulous NY architecture that went the way of all flesh. It was updated back in 2000 -- with the "Landmarks in Danger" section gone missing thanks to the subsequent successes of the preservationists.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 06:11 (twenty-one years ago)

published by whom and by whom, it sounds amazing

― anthony, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 09:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Very very large photo of The Gates taken from space.

― lock robster (robster), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 09:33 (twenty-one years ago)

but it is somewhat close to the orange used in the branding of vaguely progressive and novel companies.

http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/3b/06/websWeb_ServicesAllKozmo-resized200.gif

― christo and jeanne-claude (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 11:55 (twenty-one years ago)

park employees have been handing out swatches of the fabric. here's a scan:

http://southsidecallbox.com/ilx/gates.jpg

― christo and jeanne-claude (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 13:52 (twenty-one years ago)

it's a little shinier than that -- it sorta resembles an orange reflector light on a bike:

http://www.webtree.net.tw/sankang/images/0512orange-ctlgrgb.gif

― christo and jeanne-claude (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Lost New York, originally published after Penn Station was demolished, was a picture book detailing all the fabulous NY architecture that went the way of all flesh. It was updated back in 2000 -- with the "Landmarks in Danger" section gone missing thanks to the subsequent successes of the preservationists.

needs to be updated again: the Plaza, CBGBs, etc., etc.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

wow, the detail on that nasa photo is amazing. and also kind of creepy.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

They're watching you.

― Leon the Fatboy (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

only if i'm in manhattan.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

My friend took her dog to the park yesterday and said the Gates are like giant pee-magnets to the dogs. Um, yellow snow abound. Neato.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, that aerial photo is my new desktop, centered and actual size, so you can see the Metropolitan Museum in all its corrugated glory.

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:18 (twenty-one years ago)

The photo is terrific. There was an article about geosecurity in the LA Times recently. Apparently, mapmaking has taken on an entirely new dimension.

― youn, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Wait, is this The Emperor's New Clothes? I couldn't actually see the gates in that photo.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

uh, yes you could.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Oops. I guess I needed to zoom in.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

you have to make sure your browser is not scaling the photograph at all, it HAS to be at 100%. And even then you have to look closely.

― Allyzay Dallas Multi-Pass (allyzay), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Right. That seems to have been the problem.

Even then, I think the ice-pond is much more impressive.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

i made the pic my new desktop too.

― jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

you can see my apt bldg in that photo

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:50 (twenty-one years ago)

i really really love the sketch in alex's opening post. i'm honestly surprised that of all the pictures he could have used to hate on "the gates," he chose that one.

― jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:53 (twenty-one years ago)

You really can't miss the gates. You really can't miss anything you're looking for, really. Look! Bethesda!

http://giganticmag.com/images/ilx/centralpark_gates_detail.jpg

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:54 (twenty-one years ago)

you can see yoko ono's apt bldg in that photo.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

I also think the sketch is more impressive than the real thing.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

you can see yoko ono's apt bldg in that photo.

She still live at the Dakota? I'm behind the times.

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

stence, i agree w.anthony, schlejdahl's sackable offence of a sentence is totally sensible and unexceptionable: just bcz duchamp did a bunch of stuff a long time ago doesn't mean all art critics everywhere today accept or agree on (or even understand) what he did or why

"[x] is a big art-critical problem" = the re-definition has caused a problem for anyone calling themselves an "art critic" = not so much what should we be writin about as what SHOULDN'T we be writin about? if the defn is left wide open then the problem becomes why is so much left UNdiscussed by (so-called) art critics; if you focus it down, then you are saying (implicitly) "duchamp was wrong, for the purposes of getting my job done"

either way, the problem stands

(in other words, i don't think PS means: "anyone worthy of the title 'art critic' will be and ought to be suspicious of duchamp's redefinition", he means "if duchamp's redefinition stands, then the job of being an art critic is harder not easier")

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

(New York City is so fucking great.)

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:57 (twenty-one years ago)

WHERE IS DEAN GULBERRY WITH HIS REPORTAGE?

― Ian John50n (orion), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

just bcz duchamp did a bunch of stuff a long time ago doesn't mean all art critics everywhere today accept or agree on (or even understand) what he did or why

that's not what I meant.

he means "if duchamp's redefinition stands, then the job of being an art critic is harder not easier"

yes but that's not art's problem.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

DEAN GULBERRY PROBABLY REALLY SPENT THE WEEKEND IN OXNARD. I'm convinced that he didn't even come to NYC.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think the gates look that impressive when you see them in pictures or on tv. i didn't feel the impact of it until i actually walked through/underneath them and saw them all around me, veering off into all these different noneuclidean entanglements. and the orange does really stand out against the white sky, bare trees, etc.

― jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost: Absolutely right, and I think there are some difficult questions for art critics to grapple with here. For example: How much of this still falls into the old paradigm of the artist as superstar/visionary/Great Man? Is putting art in the park next-door truly taking it out of the gallery? If we now embrace outsider art, then why can't one of those enormous roadside-attraction-type works get this kind of attention? I guess maybe some of these questions are more relevant for the sort of art critics that deal more directly with the non art-world public (New York or New Yorker as opposed to Artforum).

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:07 (twenty-one years ago)

If we now embrace outsider art, then why can't one of those enormous roadside-attraction-type works get this kind of attention?

ts: the gates vs. arizona's THE THING

http://southsidecallbox.com/ilx/img_0326.jpg

― jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:13 (twenty-one years ago)

"that's not art's problem"

no i know, but P didn't say it was "art's problem", he said it was an "art critical" problem, which is true!!

"it's not what i meant" — so what else does "issues that duchamp settled" mean? either everyone agrees, or the issues aren't settled

i think all PS means - and putting it in this fancy way IS i suppose slightly pandering to lamer New Yorker readers if i'm right - is "not everyone will call this art but SO WHAT"

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:14 (twenty-one years ago)

i think all PS means - and putting it in this fancy way IS i suppose slightly pandering to lamer New Yorker readers if i'm right - is "not everyone will call this art but SO WHAT"

I think if he really wanted to be "SO WHAT" he wouldn't have raised it.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, I think he raised it because a lot of less art-saavy publications have already been raising it. I was just on the site of some major daily paper that had a poll on whether The Gates is "art".

The worst thing was that the choices were something like either "Yes, I love it," "No, I don't get it," or "I don't know."

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:21 (twenty-one years ago)

the post is kinda art, in its way.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:22 (twenty-one years ago)

no "Yes, I hate it" option? How unscientific.

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:22 (twenty-one years ago)

or "No, I love it"???

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

exactly: he's pre-emptively raising it on behalf of those readers who think like this, and then saying even if they do think like this it doesn't matter

that's bcz he knows the issues haven't been settled (but doesn't want to get sidetracked into the "definition" logjam right now) (which fair enough since duchamp settled it decades ago oh wait..)

i agree that where we basically differ is in whether schjeldahl thinks duchamp is just wrong or not in his redef: i don't see why PA wouldn't say "duchamp is wrong" if he actually thought that, hence the way i read that sentence = "some of you aren't up to speed w.duchamp yet but (in ref central park this weekend) so what?"

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

meaning The NY Post? I've long thought their covers were art, and their headlines poetry. I'd totally buy a book of them.

xpost: It might have been "No, I hate it." I can't remember. I like jblount's suggestion best though.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:24 (twenty-one years ago)

see i think by just acknowledging it he's raising the possibility that it's still a valid argument.

and i don't agree that most people (except maybe post readers), even that many art critics (and certainly not artists!), are still stuck on the "definition" logjam because duchamp did settle it!

i mean jeez, and we rail against/about rockism all the time.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:26 (twenty-one years ago)

tracer you and tombot got to paint some white t's on at least some of them big orange flags, seriously d-day style (central park has like weak security at night right? supposedly?)

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I loved the news story on TV that someone spray painted "art?" on it, but they erased it.

I love the ridiculousness of Christo, and I love art that makes people go "But that's not art!" but if I did it, I would tell the cops to under NO circumstances watch the piece at all, and let the public do what they want with them. In fact, I'd say they should stay up until they're all torn down.

― David Allen (David Allen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

central park has like weak security at night right? supposedly?

this ain't the diana ross 1980 concert, blount.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:29 (twenty-one years ago)

OR OMG ARE THEY IN A LINE? THEY'RE IN A LINE SORTA RIGHT? OK HERE'S THE THING, ON THE LAST ONE, THE SOUTHERNMOST ONE, WHATEVER, SPRAYPAINT WRITE ON IT 'ORANGE YOU GLAD I DIDN'T SAY BANANA?'. PLZ.

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:31 (twenty-one years ago)

"and certainly not artists!" = actual real art rockist alert!!!

if it's settled (which it plainly isn't), then it can't have been DUCHAMP that settled it (by duchamp;'s own argt), it was "everyone else" that settled it, by agreeing w.him

except not everyone does agree w.him (even if you and i and peter schlejdhal all do) (proof of our agreement = our arguing bitterly w.each other) (bcz duchampianism is in fact an ART CRITICAL PROBLEM qed)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i saw the models of this at that big arts gallery last may... they looked really pretty (some were like these orange gates made of like toothpicks on this black and white photograph of central park), i think seeing the actual thing will be disappointing.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:36 (twenty-one years ago)

and the fact that they spent like 10 years (or more?) campaigning for this to happen.. the build up is way too much i think.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"and certainly not artists!" = actual real art rockist alert!!!

um, no.

if it's settled (which it plainly isn't), then it can't have been DUCHAMP that settled it (by duchamp;'s own argt), it was "everyone else" that settled it, by agreeing w.him

right so darwin didn't settle anything either, it was just the many scientists afterwards, the fossil record, etc., etc.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:37 (twenty-one years ago)

that's SAFFRON YOU GLAD I DIDN'T SAY BANANA (xxxxxpost)

― jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

and the fact that they spent like 10 years (or more?) campaigning for this to happen

the idea was first introduced in 1979.

― jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:38 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean jeez mark s i expect a lot more from a guy who decries the term "influence."

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

isn't the build-up and the campaigning part of the "piece" w.christo? (i gave this book to my best actual real artist friend for xmas but i forgot to read it first)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

the build-up and campaigning is a collaboration between christo, jeanne-claude, and the douchebags who have run this city since 1979.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

ie. koch, dinkins, giuliani, bloomberg.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm probably forgetting one too.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I think it's always partly just about the process of convincing people to get behind an enormous and seemingly absurd project.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

one of the only things i like about mayor bloomberg is that he seems to care about art -- he was the first mayor to support "the gates," and he was opposed to the MTA ban on subway photography. (many many xposts)

― jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:41 (twenty-one years ago)

he seems to care, but it's only in a poncey rich dork kind of way. but yeah, that's obv. much better than giuliani trying to shut down the brooklyn museum or whatever.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

the gates are stupid. if i ever get around to seeing it, i'm going to take a shit on the leg of one. how do you like that art?

― etyewy, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:04 (twenty-one years ago)

how do you like central booking, etyewy? hahaha that will be hilarious.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

that's like 10 years behind damien hirst dude.

xpost

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

ok well do it soon, etyewy... it's closing this weekend.

― jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:07 (twenty-one years ago)

The "Orange you glad I didn't say banana" idea was much better than the shit idea.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure the shitting has been done already. Bum dung.

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:12 (twenty-one years ago)

"right so darwin didn't settle anything either, it was just the many scientists afterwards, the fossil record etc"

i think the word "settled" must mean something difft to us : \

my defn: an argument is settled by ALL the people involved in it (or it is not settled)

duchamp (and darwin) made proposals which were then debated, discussed, explored, challenged blah blah blah

how is this even slightly contentious?

in fact they are both still challenged in fact: this is not contentious either (though how to respond to these challenges is HIGHLY contentious)

i happen to think that — in accord w., the thinking of both duchamp AND darwin, as far as i can see— you're more likely to face a challenge successfully if you take it seriously (instead of pretending it doesn't exist, for example, or just mocking it and brushing it off)

but other ppl think this approach gives the challenge too much credibility, or actually hands over the keys of the farm b4 the argument even begins

the fact that there is such a difference in defensive strategy is one of the reason i think it is strange to say the argument is "settled" (unless "settled" means something i don't think it does)

at best the duchamp question is surely currently only "settled" within specific self-defined communities of thought: if you're arguing that other communities don't matter, then i do actually think yr undermining a key part of duchamp's actual position (i think yr being rather momus-ish abt it, actually)

i am a bit dubious about schlejdahl's approach to this conundrum as a tactic (as i said, it panders somewhat), but i am far less dubious abt the practical realism behind it (realism in re: this battle is by no means won)

of course you may be right in yr intepretation of PS's sentence, but that doesn't make yr point abt the argt being over any stronger

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:25 (twenty-one years ago)

surely i could have used the word "actually" more often in that post

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:27 (twenty-one years ago)

the transforming all the flags into UT flags idea is the best yet.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:36 (twenty-one years ago)

i s'pose i am being a bit momus-ish, i pretty much agree with most of what you're saying, mark. i'm kinda using "settled" to mean "opened" which in many ways i think are almost very similar things (tho intuitively they're not). see also: cage.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:38 (twenty-one years ago)

posted on gothamist yesterday:

http://www.gothamist.com/images/2005_02_gatessnow.jpg

― jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 23:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow.

― C0L1N B... (C0L1N B...), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 23:32 (twenty-one years ago)

God, I never shroom anymore but I'd do it for that.

― LeCoq (LeCoq), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 23:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I have some great pics on my camera. I'll upload them should I ever leave the office.

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 23:41 (twenty-one years ago)

http://home.comcast.net/~jefframirez/IMG_0803.JPG

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Thursday, 24 February 2005 03:04 (twenty-one years ago)

YES, BUT DID YOU /LIKE/ IT?

― Ian John50n (orion), Thursday, 24 February 2005 03:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it's v.cool. Especially that Christo has created something that people will actually experience, rather than view. (I mean wrapping the Reichstag was kind of cool, but this time you're actually a part of the installation) Incredible. More pics please!!

― VegemiteGrrl (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 24 February 2005 03:47 (twenty-one years ago)

There was a point after all!

― Aaron A., Sunday, 6 March 2005 01:31 (twenty years ago)

Thank you, tourists! Here's your hat, what's your hurry?

― Fish fingers all in a line (kenan), Sunday, 6 March 2005 02:16 (twenty years ago)

Next: Penguins!

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 6 March 2005 03:51 (twenty years ago)

Do you mean bringing them to Central Park? Will they get along with the ducks?

― youn, Sunday, 6 March 2005 04:54 (twenty years ago)

i imagine there are already penguins in the cp zoo but i've never been.

― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 6 March 2005 05:05 (twenty years ago)

LOTS AND LOTS OF PENGUINS!

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 6 March 2005 05:12 (twenty years ago)

Will they march along the paths where the gates were? Orange for winter, black and white for spring? Nice weather for penguins.

― youn, Sunday, 6 March 2005 05:47 (twenty years ago)

Everything as unnatural and as expensive as possible please.

― youn, Sunday, 6 March 2005 05:48 (twenty years ago)

There are indeed penguins in the CP Zoo, or there were 15 years ago when I would watch them on my lunch break (when I worked in the gift shop).

― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 6 March 2005 07:30 (twenty years ago)

there are polar bears too!

― jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 6 March 2005 14:57 (twenty years ago)

maybe there should be a procession of purple polar bears (like this poor fellow at an Argentine zoo -- the purple was a side effect of the medication for his skin condition).

http://www.gothamist.com/images/2003_7_purplebear.jpg

― jbr (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 6 March 2005 15:00 (twenty years ago)

It looks sad.

― youn, Sunday, 6 March 2005 23:17 (twenty years ago)

When I went to the gates with my mom and cousin (visiting for the day), we also went to the Historical Society and the Met. Both were absolutely fuckin packed, which is unsurprising and also really, really wonderful.

― Ian John50n (orion), Sunday, 6 March 2005 23:24 (twenty years ago)

That's cute.

― Who did release magic family out from the base of $499 (deangulberry), Monday, 7 March 2005 00:02 (twenty years ago)

Historical Society exhibit on Alexander Hamilton > Gates.

― Ian John50n (orion), Monday, 7 March 2005 00:30 (twenty years ago)

four years pass...

I guess this is the de facto Christo thread... sad news today.

http://www.christojeanneclaude.net/JChPagePortraitKopie2.jpg

Jeanne-Claude, 74, American artist and resident of New York City, died suddenly November 18, 2009 as a result of of complications due to a ruptured brain aneurysm.
Christo is deeply saddened by the passing of his wife, partner and collaborator and is committed to honor the promise they made to each other many years ago: The art of Christo and Jeanne-Claude will continue.
Christo is dedicated to completing their current works in progress: Over The River, Project for the Arkansas River, State of Colorado, and The Mastaba, Project for the United Arab Emirates, as Jeanne-Claude would wish.
Christo and Jeanne-Claude met in Paris, France in November, 1958, sharing the same date of birth and have worked together for 51 years creating temporary works of art.
It is Jeanne-Claude's wish that her body be donated to scientific research.
A memorial will be announced at a later date. Christo requests that flowers not be sent. Memorial gifts may be made to the charity of your choice.
http://www.christojeanneclaude.net/

― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Thursday, 19 November 2009 21:14 (sixteen years ago)

Jeanne-Claude RIP

― plaxico (I know, right?), Thursday, 19 November 2009 21:15 (sixteen years ago)

thank you

― all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Thursday, 19 November 2009 21:20 (sixteen years ago)

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