The pope is dead

The pope is having breathing problems (a tube down his throat, apparatively), which would interfere with the administration of a certain herbal palliative. But he is also on a feeding tube, so other...treatments could be administered that way.

that made snot come out my nose. well done.

I had that stuck in my head out of nowhere the other day!

http://ox.eicat.ca/~scarruthers/ilx/pope-dan.jpg

Apparently, according to every news network, this is 1/10000000 th as important as Terri Schiavo kicking the bucket.

Not trying to stir shit, just curious.

And leaving the devil's service is never easy.

Yes and no. The point you're going for here (reverse racism, 'oh, it's OK to make fun of white/European religious leaders') is a non-starter, I think.

Fewer westerners are familiar with big-time leaders of Islam or Hinduism, so you're not going to be bombarded with it 24/7 and there will be fewer jokes (most Terri Schiavo/Pope jokes are driven by the constant and frustrating media barrage). And more than a few westerners would dance with glee at the news of any Islamic religious leader in pain.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/03/30/international/gay.xlaerge1.jpg

thx

All that cheesy homophobia, hasn't lasted well.

x-post

In the slave girl, outfit, natch.

http://img202.exs.cx/img202/8458/obewanjohnpaul5kf.jpg

brilliant analysis.

...appears to have been stabilised. Phew.

there's a fine old tradition of bumping off inconvenient popes, admittedly much in abeyance; so pulling the plug on him for news management purposes isn't beyond the church. And besides he's said he won't go into hospital again which is as good as saying that he doesn't want to be kept alive by artificial means.

Not to say the knowledge that he can't crack a stiffy anymore

yes, given this tradition i have to admit i have been wondering if they don't have a suitable successor in the wings and that's why they are so keen to prolong his life? i don't know anything about the politics of the catholic church these days so i have no idea if this could have any basis in reality

This is all very Mr Burns at this point.

from 27 years ago...

xpost

Report: Pope in Coma
22 minutes ago

VATICAN CITY - Pope John Paul II was in a coma Friday, Italian news agency Apcom said citing unidentified sources.

Earlier Friday the Vatican had said that the pope suffered heart failure during treatment for a urinary tract infection and was in "very serious" condition.

(hint: Cut/paste above pic link from 'properties' into browser address)

http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/makesign1.php?line1=&line2=Is+the+Pope&line3=dead+yet??

"The Pope's Penis," Sharon Olds

It hangs deep in his robes, a delicate
clapper at the center of a bell.
It moves when he moves, a ghostly fish in a
halo of silver sweaweed, the hair
swaying in the dark and the heat -- and at night
while his eyes sleep, it stands up
in praise of God.

(I first read this in a contemporary poetry class in college, taught by a poet in his 70s, who countered the inevitable snickering with "now, now, let's be mature.)

RIP.

Kinda lol but mostly blud

not even the funniest pope story of the day

No he isn't

Pope rallies from knee pain to proclaim 10 new saints https://t.co/8X8CemOmsS

— The Independent (@Independent) May 15, 2022

is that Doug Dimmadome, owner of the Dimmsdale Dimmadome?

The Pope Emeritus isn't even dead yet! He kinda looked like he was though, even during his papacy.

https://lapsi.al/2023/08/27/rama-zbulon-pa-dashje-foton-qe-mban-ne-ekranin-e-kompjuterit-te-tij/

Albanian PM Rama inadvertently reveals desktop wallpaper of meteorite striking pope

Thought this would be about that Argentine Bolsonaro wannabe that The Guardian is publicising for some reason

pictures of popes gazing haplessly at the arriving meteor

The plural of Pope is "peeps"

Getting ready.

double pneumonia? ahhh it's like a case of the fucking sniffles to a superannuated pope!

Next guy's obviously going to be some anti-woke hardliner.

https://preview.redd.it/fydbxsrs6cq91.jpg?auto=webp&s=e9082e57e2b80376ca937168810cea17db99e1cf

The Conclave/A Complete Unknown sequel ready to go.

elon/trump killed him

Israel more like

Next guy's obviously going to be some anti-woke hardliner.

Probably. We were actually lucky that Benedict resigned, he was really awful, but it wouldn't surprise me if they picked someone just as bad, if not worse, next time around.

Singing thread title to the tune of "The Queen is Dead."

Maybe the US will buy the Vatican and install ... oh, let's just say I can think of a good candidate for Pope.

Biden is even too old and decrepit to be a Pope.

Gauntlet thrown, put his name in the hat with the others!

JD Vance wants the job, he absolutely knows what's best for Catholics since he converted...(checks notes)...five and a half years ago.

Thinking about this post on r/oscarrace from nine days ago:

"In a completely hypothetical scenario, if the Pope were to die in the next few days, would Conclave emerge as the frontrunner for BP?"

What a stupid question

It is, but I'm wondering about that too

Make Anora pope.

xp I guess since the voting ends today maybe not

its a collection of disinterested and utterly disconnected weirdos selecting a winner that nobody cares about in 2025

and then there's conclave etc

Probably. We were actually lucky that Benedict resigned, he was really awful, but it wouldn't surprise me if they picked someone just as bad, if not worse, next time around.

Apparently Francis has spent the last few years stocking the College of Cardinals precisely to keep this from happening.

I'm kinda thinking that all the weirdo US adult converts to Catholicism (JD Vance, Ross Douthat, various other psychos) are gonna stage a schism and choose an antipope for the Orthodox True Catholic Church of the Mighty and Most Holy USA, or whatever they decide to call themselves.

not all of them are converts— my mom’s oldest friend, long despised by my father and i for being a pretentious conservative hellmouth, is all in on Trump and loathes Francis.

(and she was raised Catholic, she and my mom went to Hallahan together) (that’s the good girls Catholic school in Philly, fwiw)

This pope was marginally better than Benedict.

This Pope took courageous and unpopular positions throughout his tenure. He wasn’t perfect — he was the patriarch of the catholic church — but his message was one of inclusivity and compassion. If he passes away due to this illness he will be missed.

I agree with all of that treeship

My mom’s catholic faith has led her to volunteer her time helping refugees with their asylum applications. This pope represented that type of christian spirit, I felt, way more than the jd vances of the world who care more about conservative politics than the anti-hierarchical message of the gospels.

xxp yeah he stood up to a lot of anti-gay clergy around the world

idk he retracted many of his positions in the last five years. I've read he did a good job of stacking the College of Cardinals with his ilk, so we may not see a counter-reaction when he dies.

yeah that new pre-Vatican Two bullshit, with latin masses etc.. I've heard it described as "Jackie O cosplay"

A good essay: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n02/colm-toibin/the-bergoglio-smile

Italian prime minister Giorgia Meloni visited Pope Francis in hospital on Wednesday, a day after he was diagnosed with double pneumonia, saying that she had found him alert and responsive, Reuters reports.

“We joked as always. He hasn’t lost his proverbial sense of humour,” Meloni said in a statement.

The pope of banterbury

who knew the Proverbs could be funny?

"So I sez to the pontiff I sez."

pope francis spencer

just going to add "the proverbial" to random sentences and see how long before someone questions it.

xp some fathers do ave m.

vg

"Critical condition" now, better get the Vatican apartments dusted out...

some fathers

papas?

dmac for pontiff

i think i fail at least one of the base criteria

Pope Deemus enrages Catholic base with "did we ever get this sorted" abortion comment

What's Latin for "Lads"?

We've got Conclave (2025) at home.

https://www.originalposter.co.uk/uploads/161998927593232_mainphotos.jpg

My mum's cousin is a bishop,I hope he's the next one.

Pope Francis is so clearly the best pope in my lifetime.

Rooting for Pierbattista Pizzaballa as successor, strictly because of the name...

i am sad about this

it's OK, he'll go to heaven

it's OK, he'll go to heaven

― Inside The Wasp Factory with Gregg Wallace (Camaraderie at Arms Length)

Good, maybe Bill Fay will talk some sense into him.

It's one of those things that really shows how out of it I am. I didn't realize until this morning that he was dead.

I'm not sad, personally. Catholicism, to me... there's so much hypocrisy. He was a Jesuit, through and through. Really good with words. Really good at looking wise. People love him, even while he's pushing this "gender ideology" crap, and frankly I'd rather have someone like Benedict, someone who was mainly different from Francis in marketing. Benedict wasn't as bad as people thought he was, and Francis wasn't as good as people thought he was. The Pope stays the Pope. Patriarchy stays patriarchy.

Are you talking about Bill Fay? I don't think you have to be out of it to miss that an obscure semi-reclusive folkie died away. Because the Pope ain't dead yet, unless it happened, like, seconds ago.

he's not dead yet

but he’s getting there

aren't we all, am I basically the pope at this point

Taking it one deus at a time.

All a big joke isn’t it, someone dying

oh good, i didn't miss the pope dying. god. i was wondering how i missed something like that.

All a big joke isn’t it, someone dying

well, he's no Margaret Thatcher

its not a big joke but this isnt the local church group either

hes an old man, decent chap, life well lived, holds an overly powerful overly harmful overly respected ridiculous position if you dont like the tone of anti-reverence towards that (haven't seen anything stronger than that) then i suggest you find somewhere more catholically pious because its late in the day to pretend to be surprised about ilx imo.

Also he is a right laugh according to the fascist pm who was joking around with him even in the hospital just now so I reckon he’d be ok with the jokes

he has those bishops rolling in the aisles on the reg, he's in the top 5 of funniest popes!

Whaaaaaat’s the deeeeeeal with transubstantiation?

well seinfeld would want to know tbf

They keep talking about accidents and substance. Bud, how am I meant to tell the flock my accidents and my substance!

So I says to the Bishop of Constantinople I says, "listen, I ain't got much time left, let's get these two churches back together aye?" He goes "really Francis?" And I says "yeah, you tell em all that they gotta follow the pope like they oughta 1000 years ago! whats the big deal! I'm gonna die in a few days anyways"

*are my substance. (Damnit)

Accidents are also my substance just write me off already

Whaaaaaat’s the deeeeeeal with transubstantiation?

― papal hotwife (milo z)

ahhh, that's easy. if i say i'm a girl, i'm a girl, even if i have a dick.

i really don't get those folks who are like "ewww you eat god's flesh and drink his blood, that's weeeeeeird", i mean, god forbid transcendent contact with the numinous should be _weird_ or anything.

I realize there's no avoiding this since he's the pope, but I imagine for most people it would be really irritating having every detail of their failing health broadcast worldwide in real time as they were slowly dying. "There goes his lungs! Now his kidneys, he can't even pee on his own anymore!"

its not a big joke but this isnt the local church group either

hes an old man, decent chap, life well lived, holds an overly powerful overly harmful overly respected ridiculous position if you dont like the tone of anti-reverence towards that (haven't seen anything stronger than that) then i suggest you find somewhere more catholically pious because its late in the day to pretend to be surprised about ilx imo.

I have vivid memories of being on a date the day Pavarotti died and the Sky News banner on the TV in the background displaying "BREAKING NEWS: PAVAROTTI'S KIDNEYS FAIL"

Weirdly heard that hit Pavarotti had on the radio earlier today.

First ever Pope called Francis. The Catholic hierarchy have always been a bit sniffy about Francis of Assisi tbh.

he was a bit of a loose canon tbf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Si5R7-KZWFY

"Francis of Assisi had it all down. He knew!"

Anyway the tweets have been good. Like this guy is dying, but he is laughing all the way.

Saying Pope Francis has “not lost his sense of humor,” Doctor says when greeting Francis as “Holy Father,” Pope responds with “Hello, holy son.” pic.twitter.com/dii4SKQWCl

— Rich Raho (@RichRaho) February 21, 2025

Holy son or sinful daughter? You gotta pick one

the pope is on the roof

Looks like Soderbergh taking care of the pope there

Look maybe he'll get better

As my dad was fond of saying, he's at death's door, but the doctors will try to pull him through.

The Catholic hierarchy have always been a bit sniffy about Francis of Assisi tbh.

he was actually considered a heretic at one stage for preaching the doctrine of apostolic poverty. As Jesus and his disciples eschewed worldly possessions, so the Church should too...can't think why they'd be sniffy about that!

Holy son or sinful daughter? You gotta pick one

― H.P

that's a funny thing to say from where i'm sitting!

honestly, this is one of those things where i genuinely do feel like i'm posting from a different planet from a lot of the guys on this thread. the things people are saying about him here - i know them, i understand them - the church's attitude towards jesuits, towards poverty. these things are not insignificant or meaningless. the patriarch of my family, my grandfather, graduated from a jesuit law school. the catholic faith and tradition runs deep in my blood.

and i _am_ a sinful daughter, and i did choose to speak this truth to the world, as openly as if i'd nailed it to a cathedral door, and POLL: hey chaps why aren't any of you talking about the Gisele Pelicot rape trial? the man is a patriarch, the man is the head of one of the largest patriarchal organizations in the world, a billion or more people (of which I guess I'm one, since I'm not aware of having been excommunicated), and to me, grading him on a curve against his immediate predecessors seems...

well, seems like this:

I realize there's no avoiding this since he's the pope, but I imagine for most people it would be really irritating having every detail of their failing health broadcast worldwide in real time as they were slowly dying. "There goes his lungs! Now his kidneys, he can't even pee on his own anymore!"

― birdistheword

i can't imagine. i can't imagine how horrible it would be to not have one's bodily autonomy respected. to have the most intimate details of one's body scrutinized and judged by millions the world over. god, it would sure be horrible if there was such a thing as the patriarchy that preached and enforced that men had a right to control and discipline other people's bodies, that saw some people's bodies only in terms of their reproductive capacity, that denied them bodily autonomy. that would be awful.

world's tiniest violin for this motherfucker. is it about him personally? no. not really. the chair. smash the fucking chair.

it's sad, he was great in Ronin

they need to televise the conclave this time. bring in cowell. we can call it "pope idol"

lol Pope Idol

With that in mind, I think I'll revisit Roma tomorrow...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLBr5cJPA7w

it's sad, he was great in Ronin

― rainbow calx (lukas), Tuesday, 25 February 2025 bookmarkflaglink

been thinking about this photo of pre-papacy francis for days. unreal aura. imagine thinking this guy sucks lol pic.twitter.com/3KNTEbs2ky

— emma (@seltzerprincess) February 25, 2025

weird position to be selected as pope and suddenly get worldwide fame & notability in the final decade of your life

not sure that holds up at all tbh

mainly youll have been a high ranking and notable figure for quite a while already and working up through a system to ever-higher notability before hitting "worldwide" status would appear to be as common a way to get there as any other route?

almost nobody outside their home country has heard of any given cardinal, and almost any other job has retirement in 60s/70s.

not most jobs with fame baked in, i think its a weird lens to decide where 'weird' begins tbh

weird starts on day one and follows you every step and thats whether you stay a local priest or ascend to cardinal, which is plenty famous in the circles youll be travelling in for decades

almost nobody outside their home country has heard of any given cardinal

Speak for yourself.

Life is very long when you're popely

popely young maidens

and almost any other job has retirement in 60s/70s.

― Inside The Wasp Factory with Gregg Wallace (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 25 February 2025 bookmarkflaglink

Speak for yourself

A good essay: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n02/colm-toibin/the-bergoglio-smile

― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, February 18, 2025 5:02 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

finally got around to this. the last third or so was prurient smut that is only tangentially relevant to his legacy. but I found the rest informative and only increased my admiration for francis, who as a lapsed catholic I view as more of a political figure than a religious one

the last third or so was prurient smut

ysi?

lol same, i was running around the curio looking for my special reading glasses

The Pope and cricket, quite a combination.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/articles/crknz7v7063o

I guess he's out of the woods? at least for now

Where the bears shit?

doesn't the pope go to heaven when he dies? I'd be pissed at the people praying for my recovery if I were him

by the time you're pope you aren't really counting on heaven

I'm assuming he thinks he's unlikely to be doing anything that ends him up in hell if he lives. Not at his age anyway.

I had read somewhere that John Paul 2 had a directive to his doctors to keep him alive at all costs.

Miracles happen!

you have to hand it to this lad, he sure likes not dying

to the onlooker they see a fella not dying and think a lot of it but you have to remember the 85 years of practice he has of not dying to begin with

Motherfucker did a patch adams on himself with his hilarious jokes, if that’s not a miracle idk what is

He's prob lying there thinking of all the grudges he still has to settle and that keeps him going

Truly the most relatable pope

We had a bit of fun with the “cracking sense of humour” stuff but tbf he did wait for the funniest time to croak

The timing is beyond poetry.

never mind that, the lesson i'm taking from this is "never touch grass"

Life is very long
when youre popely

Cardinal Hollerich of Luxembourg, we need you

In 2022, Hollerich said he considered the church's teaching that homosexual relationships are sinful to be wrong: "I believe that the sociological-scientific foundation of this teaching is no longer correct." In response, an anonymous memo later revealed to have been authored by Cardinal George Pell referred to Hollerich as "explicitly heretical."

I hope they select someone who will continue Francis’s message of compassion toward migrants and care for the environment. Obviously he was the pope, was not a leftist, but was a voice for decency compared to Trump and other nationalists. It was good he directly rebuked Vance and made it harder for him to hide his brutality behind a mask of Christianity.

In a poll of the pope's best posts this would surely come out on top.

The earth, our home, is beginning to look more and more like an immense pile of filth.

— Pope Francis (@Pontifex) June 18, 2015

Very dril.

He was not at all decent towards trans people; he likened the teaching of trans 'ideology' to Nazism and to believing in nuclear holocaust.

My mom despises Francis because he went too far; I despise him because as he was a creature of the Church he could no envisage no tolerance outside its strictures.

Thank you Alfred

scratch the "no" before 'envisage'

but tbf he did wait for the funniest time to croak

immediately after meeting with jd vance?

yes, exposure to toxic vapors

Mr. Pope?
Yes.
Do you have a son named Robin, Robin Pope aged 17?
Yes.
I'm sorry Mr. Pope. You better come down to the station house - your son is dead.
Dead? How?
He died of a overdose.

despising the pope as a creature of the church is one i cant really parse tbh- in context, short of ordering a mail order pope to suit yourself, whats the point of that level of investment/energy in the man/role?

in context, i suppose, of taking into account what a pope might be actually expected to be, and what this one was, i figure him as a decent effort all told.

is this the obama conversation all over again? maybe.

yeah, I'll admit I wasn't clear: he could only be what he was, and at the same time the nice things he said about the poor and migrants aren't enough for me as a former Catholic.

i hear you, thanks (i kinda know you have a more involved stance on it all just from this thread alone alright)

And you're right re the Obama conversation. How transformational do you expect a creature of the system to be?

Like western political parties, it's good to not just go along with "least worse of a long chain of rogues" as the metric for actually praising somebody

Whereas Obama left state Democratic parties in tatters, though, Bergoglio appointed 109 of the 135 cardinal electors who will soon vote on a successor.

Catch me off the record on the right day and I'll happily admit all sorts of tools of hegemony might be perfectly pleasant people out of character

We get to see some colorful smoke again? Bring it on.

xp nv i know we usually end this type of conversation with your rejoinder of "we can't expect better things" and i get it

for me, we can't expect better things from the catholic church. im not very invested in the democratic party (it affects the entire world also but i dont have any history with it) and im trying to even figure out for myself here where/why the criticisms might be different.

i guess i imagine the routes he took through and influence that the church had to have had on francis vs what looked like to me to be a very clear effort on a lot of fronts to change much of that institution through his work, im not so sure i set that aside for the sake of my own personal political stances (nb not a criticism of others as i say im feeling my iwn way through this)

whereas -take obama- i guess i dont and probably never will think of a left/centre political candidate having any kind of uncynical incubation through the structures, and feel maybe besides that seeing that politics is ostensibly a representation of the society involved then deviations from a given person represented are fairer game for disappointment/criticism and etc?

your political party could kind of go anywhere you can imagine or hope for in your lifetime, does anyone really even want the catholic church to do that, or try to? whats the point of them being the catholic church?

nb for absolute clarity my own preference for church, priests, bishops, cardinals, nuns and popes is that they vote to sell up, donate it all to good solid social justice groups and get real jobs tomorrow morning at 9am, this isnt me setting out a "the church is fine, shrug" position!

your _sarcastic_ exasperated rejoinder i should say 😙

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/catholic-right-celebrity-conversion-industrial-complex?

Look even calling himself Francis was a sweet gesture imo and I'm not anti-Catholic and am inclined to think the man was a good 'un, but I'm very attuned to people with more skin in the game than me pointing out that this wad "for a limited value of good 'un"

In other words we agree basically Darragh but I have less personal reason to resent the man than many and Alfred's position is basically correct

More of a Ratzinger guy. He had a real gentle charisma.

I always think about his visit to Dublin, where the streets were empty when his Popemobile came rolling through. Between JPII’s visit, when crowds fought for space in the Phoenix Park, and Francis’s journey through the empty streets, we had changed. Anne Lovett, David Norris, Savita Halappanavar, Mary Robinson, Catherine Corless. Kerry. Tuam. Goldenbridge. Each one of these and more is how we get from point A to point B.

I think about Leo Varadkar’s speech.

At times in the past we have failed. There are ‘dark aspects’ of the Catholic Church’s history, as one of our bishops recently said. We think of the words of the Psalm which tells us that ‘children are a heritage from the Lord’ and we remember the way the failures of both Church and State and wider society created a bitter and broken heritage for so many, leaving a legacy of pain and suffering.

It is a history of sorrow and shame.

In place of Christian charity, forgiveness and compassion, far too often there was judgement, severity and cruelty, in particular, towards women and children and those on the margins.

Magdalene Laundries, Mother and Baby Homes, industrial schools, illegal adoptions and clerical child abuse are stains on our State, our society and also the Catholic Church. Wounds are still open and there is much to be done to bring about justice and truth and healing for victims and survivors.

Holy Father, I ask that you use your office and influence to ensure this is done here in Ireland and across the World.

In recent weeks, we have all listened to heart-breaking stories from Pennsylvania of brutal crimes perpetrated by people within the Catholic Church, and then obscured to protect the institution at the expense of innocent victims. It is a story all too tragically familiar here in Ireland.

There can only be zero tolerance for those who abuse innocent children or who facilitate that abuse.

Thanks, gyac, for the Varadkar excerpt.

That was so much more detailed and intelligible than what I was mumbling towards

The disconnect I feel in Catholicism is between the cultural element, which includes a great deal which is only very tangentially related to what most people would regard as "religion" and the dogmatic side personified by adult converts like Vance who seem to view it as just a traditionalist version of Christianity with more respect for social order. And the church itself is stuck somewhere in the middle, made up of a selected group of people raised in the culture who also took it all too seriously. Think I'm with all of the other "Catholics" in this thread in not actually believing in God, but a bunch of it still lives in my head, and some will even be passed down to my kids by osmosis whether I like it or not. My horrible state Catholic secondary school imbued in me a sense of being a member of a persecuted minority group, and while I was already heading out of the faith door at that point, it's not something you can just shake off.

So, do we get to invest something even emotionally in the picking of a pope, or do we abandon the church to the Vances and Moggs? I know there are good people working from inside the church to push progressive social agendas, I'm even related to some of them, but of course we would be better off with Catholicsm dismantled. Perhaps the ritual, the choirs, the cathedrals, the incense can be kept (I occasionally go sit in on Latin solemn mass just to meditate without it being spoiled by understanding what the priest is saying). But we aren't going to get that, we aren't even going to get anyone better than Francis. So yes, think it was gyac up there saying it was a very low bar which he managed to get significantly over, but the bar is still there.

Whereas Obama left state Democratic parties in tatters, though, Bergoglio appointed 109 of the 135 cardinal electors who will soon vote on a successor.

― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, April 21, 2025 7:40 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Any in pectore appointments?

https://media.gq-magazine.co.uk/photos/67505c97fecfc02bf57beb7a/4:3/w_1440,h_1080,c_limit/0412-conclave-2.png

De Poopst François ass dout

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:s4jwetr2bmvj647s4uauegns/bafkreidy6xhih7nlirwf5k6uo7ogxifgpzin2lbj3ajrneafnv4af2xq4u@jpeg

RIP big man

I’m Lutheran so I’m glad the Antichrist is dead

Rare for a Prod to be out and proud

giant shitshow coming up over this. the right thirsts for the mantle of the Catholic Church. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DItmtfVOQNw/

do they have much sway over the Vatican?

I assume it's all cosplay Nazis, but it's not like there's a shortage of real old school fascists in the ranks already

Didn’t someone say in this thread a wide majority of the cardinals were appointed by Francis? Good luck schismatics, maybe you can join the he-man woman haters club in the traditionalist Anglican churches.

The Bluesky mods took down my post "Trump take egg, Vance kill pope"

Adult Catholic converts I would go to say are uniquely fucking weird and awful - Tony Blair, JD Vance, all those dangers who use the Vatican flag on their Twitter profile.

The humanity towards migrants and the unforlding horrors in Gaza was really notable. You can count on one hand leaders of any Western nation that will give a shit and show any kind of leadership when it counted.

I remember when Francis became Pope and his first official visit outside of Rome was to Lampedusa to pray for migrants who had died / been killed at sea. It meant so much to me, especially as the world embraced that kind of cruelty as the way forward. pic.twitter.com/yqEibs0YpX

— Zito (@_Zeets) April 21, 2025

Adult Catholic converts I would go to say are uniquely fucking weird and awful

I think you can add Russell Brand to that crew, no?

Perhaps the ritual, the choirs, the cathedrals, the incense can be kept

oh fuck yes

Re-posting the Tóibín essay for the background on Bergoglio: : https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n02/colm-toibin/the-bergoglio-smile

do they have much sway over the Vatican?

the Church is in some ways like a political party - there are factions. there's plenty of cardinals who'd prefer a more conservative Church. however, the nutball stuff that Bannon/Poso/fringe ppl you've never heard of want -- Mass in Latin, kneeling to receive the Host/no standing Communion or placing the Host on the hand, women to cover their heads in church per Paul's edit -- is massively unpopular, and most cardinals aren't interested in a program that will cull attendance and attract annoying converts, who tend to start telling the cardinals how to do their jobs as soon as they're confirmed (Vance is one of these). Bannon understands this as a battle like the battles that took place all the time in earlier centuries -- outside factions vying for the mantle of the Church, which is still mighty. but nobody outside the Vatican really has a full view of the Vatican's workings, I think; it's a very old organization that resents outside interference. so there are probably cardinals who support the Bannon/neotrad program. But Popes make cardinals, and Francis made 163 new cardinals from 76 countries, twenty-five of which had never had a cardinal before. This kind of math is catnip to Bannon, he wants action, intrigue, etc.

This piece in the Independent goes over the morning line on this. I don't have a sense of where, in the world, the Church is growing fastest, and where it's waning most, which are things the college of cardinals will be thinking about when they vote. Of the leading candidates, three are quite conservative and would appeal to the (editorializing here) fake-ass Catholics whose main interest is in shoring up votes & donations from U.S. parishes, and in notching a win by infiltrating one of the most powerful institutions in history.

Francis was the first Jesuit pope, and maybe the last

If Jesuits ran the world we wouldn't need a paradise in the afterlife.

lol those cardinals stepped right out of Conclave.

Cardinal Erdo is probably the worst possible outcome. For me Cardinal Tagle feels like both the person who most appeals to my hopes for the Church, and the one who has the best chance of increasing its reach. Cardinal Burke would be a disaster but if I were in Las Vegas I'd bet against any American ever getting it, the American Church does not get popes. If it's drama you want pray for Cardinal Scola. I like the notion of Cardinal Nichols as an outsider but I really don't think it's gonna happen.

women to cover their heads in church per Paul's edit

I've heard this referred to as 'Jackie O. cosplay'

Cardinal Sclerotic.

I've heard this referred to as 'Jackie O. cosplay'

loool

I remember when they busted out the sede vacante coat of arms on the official Vatican homepage last time around and they're on it again:

https://www.vatican.va/etc/designs/vatican/library/clientlibs/themes/homepage_sedesvacans/images/sedes-vacans.png

hammer don't hurt 'em : https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hammer-time/

this was a good and evenhanded reckoning, I thought:

Francis hoped his leadership might augur an age of renewal for the Church. He presided instead over an era of decline. Over his time in office, the secular West grew ever more secular. In Latin America, the Catholic Church’s long retreat before evangelical Protestantism turned into a rout. In 2010, nearly four out of every five of the Pope’s fellow Argentinians identified as Catholic; by 2020, that figure had dropped below 50 per cent. The future of Catholicism now looks like her distant past, the Church of the third century: strong in Africa, weak almost everywhere else. Francis did not instigate the decline; his papacy was defined by it nevertheless.

And as Francis subverted the hopes of others, history subverted his. The Pope called Catholics to go to the margins just as believers were, across much of the West, marginalised themselves; he strengthened ties with Christians outside the Church as her internal divisions deepened; and he expounded an optimistic, missionary vision of the Church to a shrinking, embattled flock. Hannah Arendt eulogised John XXIII as a pope who was also a Christian. Francis was, at his best, an even stranger prodigy: a pope who was also a human being. But whether this was a good thing depended on who you asked.

Good read, donna, thanks.

Judging by the comments, I'm not the only one who got the news through this IG post.

Me (joking on Twitter): Vance killed the Pope????
GOP congresswoman: VANCE KILLED THE POPE!!!❤️❤️❤️❤️ https://t.co/2Hxe4uCalJ

— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) April 21, 2025

Jesus, what a fucking psycho.

not only did he die, https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/pope-francis-funeral-president-trump-and-melania-will-attend/ar-AA1Dld3F

ummm, were they invited?

From ye Post on potential successors

Bo of Myanmar, Tagle of the Philippines and Italians Pizzaballa and Parolin.

I haven't read the article but I can already tell you I'm on Team Pizzaballa

can't say that without sounding like Mario Brothers

An interesting Bluesky thread that I'm just gonna quote at length:

listen. God works in mysterious ways or whatever but it is hard to describe how spectacularly unpopular the highly conservative U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops has made itself with the rest of church leadership. the Vatican sees them as WAY too enmeshed in GOP politics and Francis legit hated them

you could fill a whole book with just "public statements by Pope Francis that purport to be about general Catholic teachings or beliefs but are in fact an incredibly specific and direct subtweet of something ONLY the American clergy are doing"

my Twitter friend Don Clemmer is a progressive Catholic journalist who follows the College of Cardinals like we follow the Senate, and over the years he's said a number of things to me that I found extremely hopeful and encouraging, and I'm sharing them here because maybe you will also

progressive Catholics have been worried for a LONG time about what happens next, and how much power the far right will have to roll back every advance Francis made, everywhere from reforming the Vatican Bank to bringing women and LGBTQ people into the synodal process for the first time in history

Don pointed out that Francis walked in the door absolutely knowing they were going to try that shit the second he died, and spent his entire tenure stacking the deck to reduce the mathematical possibility of that by filling the College of Cardinals with as many progressive voices as he could find

the College of Cardinals isn't the Senate; there's no limit on how many there can be. he's created new ones from 25 countries that never had representation at that level before. 80% of the 135 eligible cardinals to vote were hired by him and only 40% are from Europe. the makeup has really shifted

Don also pointed out that many of the cardinals Francis appointed and many of the Vatican leadership staff he hired actually have track records of being more progressive on various issues than he was. In many cases, he replaced a long-entrenched archconservative with someone way further left

once, many years ago, when I was expressing frustration to Don about Francis not going far enough on LGBTQ rights, he suggested we might look back one day and see him as a midpoint, not an endpoint:

"Maybe Francis isn't The Guy. Maybe he's the guy who opens the door for The Guy."

I find it helpful, in many ways, to look at Francis the way we look back at the iconic second wave feminists

the work they did was an absolutely vital uphill push and we wouldn't be where we are now without them. they were also not equipped to carry us all the way to the finish line

I think it's also important to acknowledge that the impact of a leader isn't just about who they are as an individual - necessarily flawed and imperfect, as we all are - but about how they prompt changed behavior from their followers. as a queer Catholic, that's the legacy of Pope Francis to me

I simply cannot describe to anyone who did not live it day to day how different it felt going to Mass as a queer person during Benedict's tenure than it did under Francis, even when Francis fucked up. the real seismic shift was that progressive Catholics felt empowered to be louder and braver

people who all along had been supportive of LGBTQ people and wanted them to be part of their faith community suddenly felt like they had their Pope's backing to create public forms of advocacy - queer liturgies, queer welcoming committees, queer speakers - instead of having to keep it quiet

the odds are mathematically pretty good that the successor of Pope Francis will be someone he chose because they shared his beliefs, and that makes an Obama-to-Trump backlash election feel less likely; but if it does happen, I think there is a real possibility of some schism-adjacent shit going down

guys if you are not familiar with the history between [Raymond] Burke and Pope Francis, please just know they were MORTAL ENEMIES, firing Burke was like the first thing Francis did walking in the door, and Burke often called Francis an illegitimate pope. no one who was hired by Francis would vote for that guy

so he did what Biden should have done with the Supreme Court

re: the NYT article, I like what I have read about Matteo Zuppi.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/21/world/europe/next-pope-francis-candidates.html

"In 2015, Francis named him archbishop of Bologna, one of the most important posts in Italy. There, “Don Matteo,” as he is known, continued to work with poor people and migrants. “Welcoming migrants is a historic challenge for Europe,” he has said. “Christ invites us to not turn away.”

And in recent years Francis appointed Cardinal Zuppi to the key role of envoy for Ukraine matters.

He has also been welcoming to L.G.B.T. Catholics, writing the preface for the Italian edition of the Rev. James Martin’s 2017 book, “Building a Bridge,” which called for the church to find new pastoral ways of ministering to gay people."

James Martin is one of the great jesuit priests I think, and has been really reaching out to LGBT Catholics. You can follow him on X or bluesky

Thread of pure gold.

Average Asian Cardinal: brother was/currently is President of his country. Playing a game of 6th dimensional chess with China we can’t even dream of comprehending

Average Latin American Cardinal: Affectionally called “Chito” by his flock. Pushed a man out of a helicopter in ‘77

— Brendan Fraser Crane (@bf_crane) April 22, 2025

NEW POPE

Pope harder!

Let's go!

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNTAxZTBjODctMjZjZC00ZjAyLWExZTctYmNkODczNmZjMTM0XkEyXkFqcGc@._V1_.jpg

once again I've missed the boat for making Pope Idol photoshops

Well, Trump had said he didn't want the voting to go past the second round.

Give 'Em Enough Pope

https://bsky.app/profile/damienowens.bsky.social/post/3lo6wuujh622u

are they checking his balls right now or was that part of the lore not true?

Vatican going for a New Pope any% run

Can they get on with it

Sky News found an American priest in St Peter’s Square and he offered the final points of interest:

- This is just like when the Eagles won the Super Bowl in Philly
- We love the Pope in Philly

Wait did he say it was Prevost?

American Pope?!

Yes

American Pope!

Papal name is Leo XIV

xiiv

Chicago pope!

Wikipedia was quick!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_XIV

today's smartphone-addled cardinals got zero attention span, what happened to a good old-fashioned 3 week conclave?

All hopped up on Red Bull, it's a time.

In a true test of faith, sacramental wine to be replaced by Malört.

JD Vance is wrong: Jesus doesn't ask us to rank our love for others https://t.co/hDKPKuMXmu via @NCRonline

— Robert Prevost (@drprevost) February 3, 2025