where does this idea that you'll never have sex or be in a relationship OR be randomly fancied again come from?

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started by the "how do you know if somebody fancies you" thread. this is a pretty common human emotion - the feeling of inadequacy, esp. after a big breakup or rejection. but where does it come from? is it realistic, or just fatalist bullshit?

feel free to expound and flirt and go off on tangents

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:06 (twenty years ago)

I repeat...

I don't think I'll ever have sex again or be in a relationship because... well... it was something someone said on one of the anonymous advice threads. I don't *have* another breakup in me. I can't go through that again.

I was just thinking about the randomly fancied thing. I have actually had a couple of random flirtation/fancying experiences in the past few weeks, and it was really nice. I couldn't live without that. While I could live without sex or relationships.

It's not an "X or Y or Z will never ever happen" but more an "I could live without X or Y, but not live without Z."

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:08 (twenty years ago)

or just fatalist bullshit?

OTM, but knowing that it's bullshit doesn't help you stop believing it.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:09 (twenty years ago)

I've never to my knowledge had anyone give me the eye or ask me out on a date. I'm still waiting.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:10 (twenty years ago)

Speaking on a personal basis, it comes from me.

I am a widower.

But I was like this at school before I met Laura, and I'm the same way after Laura, so perhaps that whole relationship was the exception which proved the rule. L was the only one ever to figure out a way to me.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:10 (twenty years ago)

couldn't you have a breakup and it not be that bad? like, i saw my most recent ex today (HI DERE!) (she lurks sometimes) (that's fine with me, we're cool, which is the gist of what i'm saying) and we've developed a very (what seems to me) comfortable friendship. i think it can actually happen.

girls don't really flirt with me.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:10 (twenty years ago)

these multiple kates are confusing.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:11 (twenty years ago)

Um, are you both the Kate?

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:11 (twenty years ago)

okay, that's not entirely accurate, girls sort of flirt with me. and i flirt back. and then i take it a notch higher, and nothing happens.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:12 (twenty years ago)

Can't be the Kate, for she is due to release her first album of new music since 1993's The Red Shoes later this year!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:12 (twenty years ago)

i have been feeling like this quite a bit lately, and i am sure it is because no one has shown the slightest bit of interest in me for ages and ages. i haven't had a boyfriend since jan '04, which is unheard of for me, i never go longer than a couple of months without seeing someone. and also, it worries me that i haven't really met anyone recently that i am interested in either. the crush in the record shop is really just that, a silly crush. so i feel like i now constantly have my parents lectures about settling down before it's too late ringing in my ears as it feels as if it might be too late, a lot of my friends have already found a significant other. even though i'm only 28, which is pretty young really!

― gem (trisk), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:13 (twenty years ago)

STENCE, DO I NOT FLIRT WITH YOU?!?!? Humph! I guess I'm an internet person and don't count. (Though if we lived in the same city I think there's a 25% change we'd hate each other and a 75% chance we'd be married and you'd be posting ridiculous amounts of photos of little Sterling and baby LaMonte.)

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:13 (twenty years ago)

Anyway to stop flirting and answer the question, I *thought* that I'd had my first "friendly" breakup in years. And then the other person went and started acting like a total f*ckwad. So I really give up on the idea of friendly breakups.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:15 (twenty years ago)

Friendly break-ups do exist. Actually, I've ONLY had friendly break-ups - a bit of awkwardness for sure, but no hard feelings, just twigging that it's not working any more. There ARE nice people in the world, believe me!

Also . . .

baby LaMonte

LaMonte?!?

Stence, don't do it.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:16 (twenty years ago)

stencil otm

Me: Clever remark, slightly flirty
female: laughs at remark, slightly flirty back
Me: So let's do that number exchange thing
female: gives number

2 days later

Me: call number
other end: anonymous crackhead telling me it's a pay phone in Hollywood

I've just had a string of bad luck when it comes to the ones who have fancied me in the past 6 months:
1) lived in SF
2) psycho
3) 50 years old
4) friend I like very much but have no interest in

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:17 (twenty years ago)

internet flirting sort of counts and sort of doesn't.

yeah i know! this is my first friendly breakup! i mean, it wasn't like it was all roses, we both went through some rough stuff but i think it just makes more sense for us to still be involved in each other's lives, albeit in a different way. i mean, my ex is rad! i would feel so lame if i did something to make her not want to be friends with me.

oh man, the though of kids, yeesh, i dunno about that kate.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:18 (twenty years ago)

I tried to have a friendly breakup, but I got a little angry and it was suddenly unfriendly.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:19 (twenty years ago)

i would more likely want to name a kid after tony conrad or angus maclise.

but i don't really want kids.

what's weird is i've gotten a lot of numbers lately -- real ones, not fakes -- and yet still don't get called back.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:19 (twenty years ago)

Maybe it's me, then, that I've never had a friendly breakup. (OK, exactly once, but he was the exception that proved the rule because I dumped him and he agreed.)

Men always tell me "I've stayed friends with all my ex girlfriends!" and either it's bullshit (and men often do have different definitions/expectations of the word "friendship") or I'm the exception.

Kate, I think it might be that we just intimidate men. 90% of my relationships, I've had to initiate it, or at least start the ball rolling. The only way I ever got "the eye" was through being in a band.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:20 (twenty years ago)

For me, it's not just one rejection, it's the mounting pile of them, coupled with being stuck in a tiny town that makes the chance of a random meeting with somebody new ever-so-slim. After a while, you seem to get used to it, except for birthday months; you're older, you still aren't in a relationship, and life seems to suck quite hard.

I hate April.

― carson dial (carson dial), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:20 (twenty years ago)

you'll never have sex or be in a relationship OR be randomly fancied again

i wonder if that's what went through Karol Wojtyla's mind when he became the pope..

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:21 (twenty years ago)

but ya know, people are busy, yadda yadda.

what really stung recently was this conversation last week with the super-long-game crush and she was talking about something completely unrelated, about someone she knew meeting a random celebrity, and she said "she didn't want to seem like a STALKER" (emphasis hers) and sort of looked at me. like, wtf?

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:21 (twenty years ago)

Since my last breakup I have not spoken a word to the woman in question, nor she to me. There was no illusion about "staying friends."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:22 (twenty years ago)

oh wait, then there was a girl who picked ME up in that same coffeeshop. She likes rave music, and when I talked to her next she went on even more about Moontribe and how she didn't really like rock music of any kind. Her weekends are spent in the desert with techno hippies.

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:22 (twenty years ago)

x-post I gave my number to a bloke a few weeks ago, my *real* number, BTW, we exchanged a few messages, but it fizzled out. Maybe I just felt like there wasn't the same spark that we'd had in person, the messages felt a bit too "just friends" like.

...obviously that's not all girls, but that's just one's opinion.

Mind you, if he'd come on too strong and "Oh my god, I must have you!" I'd have thought he was desperate and not replied at all. Flirty and direct is good for me.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:22 (twenty years ago)

the pope is married to the church, ken.

i have never been friends with any ex (even the ones i don't harbor bitterness towards) until my most recent one. i dunno, maybe it's a sign of maturity?

NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:23 (twenty years ago)

what's weird is i've gotten a lot of numbers lately -- real ones, not fakes -- and yet still don't get called back.

when you get numbers aren't you supposed to call them??

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:23 (twenty years ago)

called back after i leave messages, ken, duh.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:24 (twenty years ago)

Kate, I think it might be that we just intimidate men.

Yeah, I asked my mum why no one ever paid me much attention, even when i was a slip of a thing. She pretty much said she thought it might be cause I intimidated people. Not in an "I am a predatory female" kind of way though. Some other kind of way I can't quite figure out.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:24 (twenty years ago)

and often times i give the girl my number too, then call again and say my number again, and nada.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:25 (twenty years ago)

maybe they all accidentally erased the message

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:26 (twenty years ago)

i doubt it. : (

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:26 (twenty years ago)

I don't see the point of remaining friends after a break-up or a rejection. As I see it, I've tried it and it didn't work, so why try to maintain a facade of friendliness thereafter?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:27 (twenty years ago)

the thing about this long-game crush is, of course when i'm finally not intimidated at all (she's a couple years older - i've known her since i was an extremely awkward teenager), when i've finally got the confidence to make some sort of move (tho not like coming on too strong, just trying to be a nice guy BUT also show interest), it looks as tho i got shot down. but then again she was really sick and in a cranky mood.

fuckin' i give up, women are a complete mystery.

okay not complete mystery, but still.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:29 (twenty years ago)

well marcello, there are different elements that make up a relationship. and if some of those elements don't work any more but some other ones, do, why throw the baby out with the bathwater?

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:30 (twenty years ago)

Kate, it's intimidating in the "more talented, more intelligent, more outspoken, not stereotypically feminine" sort of way. I get it all the time.

But I kind of think about it this way: I'm not a Sheep Girl, I'm not gonna be happy with a Sheep Boy. (Ironic being an aries and all.) I'm an exceptional kind of person who has lived a pretty extra-ordinary life, it's gonna take a pretty extra-ordinary kind of partner to be able to take me on.

(At least that's what I think when the SSRI's are working and I've got some shred of self esteem. other times, I just think I'm a weirdo and "I'm the only one" and no one's ever gonna fall in love with me, ever.)

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:31 (twenty years ago)

I'm an exceptional kind of person who has lived a pretty extra-ordinary life, it's gonna take a pretty extra-ordinary kind of partner to be able to take me on.

Which I think sums up the root of the problem pretty concisely.

Arrogance turns me off big time.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:32 (twenty years ago)

I wish I had the confidence to say what you just said. I know the truth, i know why people are intimidated but I couldn't bring myself to admit that it's because of those things you mentioned. You're like me, -with balls. (Although that would make you a guy)

xpost

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:33 (twenty years ago)

see this is the thing, i'm so attracted to "more talented, more intelligent, more outspoken, not stereotypically feminine" type of personality in general. but that's always the hardest thing to go through. i wouldn't want to be with someone who wasn't that way in a sense, but i feel like i know other people who meet people who aren't "more talented, more intelligent, more outspoken, not stereotypically feminine" and somehow it works out. it's weird.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:34 (twenty years ago)

You're like me, -with balls. (Although that would make you a guy)

not according to bon scott.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:34 (twenty years ago)

Kate, the reality, of course (and I'm sure you're aware of this) is somewhere in the middle.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:36 (twenty years ago)

My mum always says that you should always date someone who is intellectually your equal or a little bit more intelligent, otherwise you wouldn't respect them in the relationship. I kind of think this is true.

xxpost

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:36 (twenty years ago)

Reasons why "staying friends" never works for me:

1) The partner was a complete psycho, or betrayed and/or hurt me so badly that I don't want them in my life any more.

2) If the partner dumped me, I experience jealousy when they meet someone else before I do.

3) A romantic or sexual partnership involves a kind of... emotional intimacy that is greater than a normal friendship. One can't expect the relationship to end, and the same degree of intimacy to continue. (See also number 2 above - the guys who want to talk intimately to you about their emotional life with the new girlfriend.)

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:37 (twenty years ago)

I think if I were looking for a potential new partner I'd like to do so on the basis of forming a friendship, as opposed to attending for a job interview or a Mensa test.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:38 (twenty years ago)

I don't really understand how two people can be really close to each other one minute and then completely disappear from each others' lives the next.

I've recently had a relationship fail on me - because of practical limitations, not because we hate each other or anything - and maybe true friendship is a difficult thing to achieve but surely it's worth a go?

― uptoeleven (uptoeleven), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:39 (twenty years ago)

Because if I say it maybe I will be contradicted.

― Pete (Pete), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:39 (twenty years ago)

relationship-wise, i'm looking for someone that's different enough from me to be fascinated by, but also similar enough that we can be equals. i guess i just don't know what i want. my brother was married at 29 (not saying i want to be married), i guess he figured it out.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:41 (twenty years ago)

When I say "extra-ordinary" I mean it in the Latin sense - "outside of the ordinary" rather than the English sense of "better than the ordinary". So I think the accusations of arrogance are a bit misplaced.

It's not arrogant to say that you *are* different. Some good experiences have put me apart (being talented, intelligent, etc.) and some negative experinces have put me apart (moving so bloody much, psychological things).

I know from experience that relationships between me and "office people" or "12 CD people" or "normals: I hate 'em" (from Repo Man) generally just haven't worked out. There's a lack of understanding on a most basic level.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:41 (twenty years ago)

the guys who want to talk intimately to you about their emotional life with the new girlfriend.)

oh, that's bad. i have just recently done that, although not about new girlfriend but about long-game crush. probably not the best thing in the world but better than a shrink because the ex knows the crush.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:42 (twenty years ago)

I got married at 21 to my best friend.

Awwwwww how cute....

....Yeah, best friend in that we don't fuck...ever.

Last time I had sex was with another man over a year ago. I'm getting a little frustrated to say the least.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:43 (twenty years ago)

x-post, I would like to be in a relationship with a partner who is *complimentary* to me (not in the "says nice things" sense but in the "is good at the things that I'm not and vice versa" sense). But there are some differences too great to be overcome.

Similar enough to be equals is pretty urgent and key.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:43 (twenty years ago)

i don't think it's arrogant to say i've had a fucking totally weird and crazy and extraordinary life. because most of the time i'm convinced that having such a life is not a good thing.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:43 (twenty years ago)

It's arrogant to say things like "some good experiences have put me apart (being talented, intelligent, etc.)" because that just makes you sound like Alan Sugar on The Apprentice, acting like you're doing someone a favour by deigning to acknowledge their existence. I'll be the judge of whether someone else is talented or intelligent, thank you very much, if they want my time or love or money (and usually it's not in that order).

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:45 (twenty years ago)

well here's what i mean, marcello:

i've got the crazy memories and a buncha lps, but that's about it.

whereas my brother has the wife, the house, the dog, the car, the career, etc.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:46 (twenty years ago)

being intelligent, as far as i can figure it, is about recognizing that you're not intelligent, ie. being open to learning new things all the time.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:47 (twenty years ago)

x-post... MAN!!! Perhaps it's time to reevaluate your marriage. I mean, for my money it sounds like you were married way too young. You don't have to be stuck in a situation that makes you unhappy, though. Comfort is not the same thing as safety.

I've not always had "balls". I didn't have to grow them - I had then as a teen. But I did have to rediscover them (an ongoing process) after some very negative and soul-destroying experiences.

x-post, stence, that's OTM. Are you sure you are not part of THE KATE? ;-)

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:47 (twenty years ago)

called back after i leave messages, ken, duh.
-- hstencil (hstenc!...), April 6th, 2005 9:24 AM. (hstencil) (later)

but that's crazy that none of them ever answer the phone!

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:47 (twenty years ago)

caller id, natch.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:49 (twenty years ago)

*lightbulb* maybe i should not give 'em my number too next time.

nah.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:49 (twenty years ago)

T/S: Knowing you don't know vs. self-awarness that you DO know.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:50 (twenty years ago)

i don't even know who you are.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:51 (twenty years ago)

> *complimentary* to me (not in the "says nice things" sense but in
> the "is good at the things that I'm not and vice versa" sense)

(that's 'complementary' with an e. as in 'two's complement' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two's_complement. sadly i know more about binary arithmatic than personal relationships...)

― koogs (koogs), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:53 (twenty years ago)

I know more about maths than I know about either SPELLING or relationships, obviously. ;-)

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:54 (twenty years ago)

I don't know anything about self-awareness, so where does that leave me?

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:55 (twenty years ago)

Bumping into random furniture?

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:56 (twenty years ago)

i don't know a damn thing about math, except like basic accounting and stuff. last math class: pre-cal, junior year high school, barely passed.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:56 (twenty years ago)

There are things I know, the things I know I don't know, and do si do.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 08:58 (twenty years ago)

fuck, man, the sun's coming up, i'll never get to sleep.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:00 (twenty years ago)

oh wait, i guess that's like saying i'll never have sex again. at some point i will pass out.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:01 (twenty years ago)

Good lord, you've been keeping me from working. ;-)

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:01 (twenty years ago)

Remember, you can't find love by looking in the '60s psychedelia section of your local record shop.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:01 (twenty years ago)

Oh yes you can.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:03 (twenty years ago)

xpost - yeah, my record shop has Love filed under "strange personalities"

actually maybe i shouldn't say that since a friend of mine sorta dated arthur l33.

you've been keeping me from sleeping, but that's all right. now if only it was by a method other than electronic...

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:03 (twenty years ago)

okay, kate just said i should go to sleep, and i will. enjoy this thread before the americans wake up and ruin it!

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:06 (twenty years ago)

I know, leaving someone who you love and care about, but don't want to be married to anymore is so much more difficult than just flat out hating their guts.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:06 (twenty years ago)

But Leonard Cohen did once sing that you can find your love with diagrams on a plain brown envelope. I wonder if any readers have experimented with this novel approach?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:07 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, that sounds like a heart-wrencher, Kate. But it takes two people to not have sex. Maybe he's be happier in a different situation, as well.

::blows stence a kiss:: nighty-night!

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:08 (twenty years ago)

I think he probably would be. I don't think he knows it though. We've discussed the issue and he seems to think the only alternative to me staying involves his body and a speeding train.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:10 (twenty years ago)

Oh god. That's really rough. I mean, that's tantamout to emotional blackmail, really. That was one of the tricks my abusive ex used to pull - "if you leave me, I'll kill myself!" (accompanied by a couple of attempts.) Not saying that your partner is abusive, but that's no way to keep a marriage afloat. A marriage should be derived from respect, not from pity.

Sounds lame, but have you tried marriage counselling? Or even getting basic counselling for hubby?

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:13 (twenty years ago)

"April is the cruellest month."

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:15 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, he was seeing a shrink for a while but he decided he didn't like him, so he stopped going. We were supposed to go to marriage counselling last week but he piked at the last minute. I'm the only person he's ever been with, so I think him wanted me to stay is fear-driven rather than any real feelings towards me.

xpost

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:16 (twenty years ago)

April is mean - iit's rubbish. Eveyrthing bad happens to me in April, every year like clockwork.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:18 (twenty years ago)

Ouch. Tough one.

OK, what do I know about marriages because I've never been married, but this would be the point where I would get out the Tough Love and start making ultimatums. You can't help someone who is unwilling to help themselves.

The only way to deal with fear is to confront it.

April is rubbish cause it has my birthday. April is great because it has my birthday.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:19 (twenty years ago)

True. True.

I might email you sometime. Would that be cool?

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:20 (twenty years ago)

April says: "Your sublimation terminates here!" April says: "You are an animal, and animals are supposed to pair off, fuck, make offspring and die so that you don't hog their natural resources!" Nature is hateful, but the secret of life is to love her and obey her. Fuck when she commands, and die when she dictates.

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:21 (twenty years ago)

Ahh, I'm too young to say anything like that, but it seems to take about a year until I get into another relationship.

I was finally approached by a girl a few months ago...it was the first time anyone came up to me with an obvious attraction to me. We went on a date and it went really well (for reasons I won't explain here) but we never did go on another because she was nearly impossible to contact. It took me a month to find out that she had even made it home!

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:21 (twenty years ago)

Sometimes it snows in April.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:21 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, that would be great, Kate! The yahoo account works - though I can sometimes be slow to respond if work is busy so don't be offended if I don't answer quickly. (I have to do ILX on search and destroy missions when my boss isn't looking but yahoo mail is more obviously visible slacking.)

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:22 (twenty years ago)

(And am I weird, but I don't get The Horn in spring so much. I get the horn in Autumn. September/October is when I start rubbing up against table legs and stuff.)

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:22 (twenty years ago)

I get the horn watching gay porn.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:23 (twenty years ago)

God, yes, bring on the hott boy slash!

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:24 (twenty years ago)

Heck, I've had a pretty good April so far.

But you don't want to know, really.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:25 (twenty years ago)

Not unless you've got the Pot Noodle horn.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:26 (twenty years ago)

Cathy and Clare write:

Readers, the way to fuck as much as you crave is to make yourself as attractive as possible, in possibly stupid ways. Nature is, unfortunately, something of a eugenicist. As far as attractiveness goes, all of us alive are already winners in a long line of winners. We exist because our ancestors selected each other for their fitness, and because the right sperm penetrated the right egg at the right moment. Well, in retrospect, anyway.

We're all made of The Right Stuff! We just have to listen to our inner Right Stuff to know what to do to be attractive! But you're allowed to cheat, that's only natural. Enhance nature with cosmetics, a bit of eyebrow plucking, nice clothes, a happy manner! Off to Top Shop with the lot of you! Or your preferred clothier / tailor! It's all tremendously stupid, but just go with the flow.

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:30 (twenty years ago)

What if you get the Matterhorn?

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:31 (twenty years ago)

It doesn't Matterhorn.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:32 (twenty years ago)

(Momus xpost)

THIS IS HOW NAZI GERMANY STARTED

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:32 (twenty years ago)

I'm not sure that I would actually want to be with someone who was attracted by those sorts of things.

OK, sure, I understand the bit about doing the best with what nature gave me, in terms of looks.

But too much of this "style" makeover advice is an attempt to get you to look JUST THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER YOUNG WOMAN. I don't want to be with someone who would be attracted by fashionably stripey hair and a Top Shop outfit. I want to be with someone who would be superficially attracted by my vintage paisley shirts and kooky earrings because they were an expression of my other interests.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:37 (twenty years ago)

Well, Nature is fine with specialization... as long as you don't specialize down to one, like Morrissey. Then you become "the last of the family line".

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:38 (twenty years ago)

It has taken me this long to figure out that there's more than one kate on this thread.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:39 (twenty years ago)

BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!

Our work is done here.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!! (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:39 (twenty years ago)

Like Morrissey cares. I've sent my nomination papers to the Vatican. Pope Steven Patrick I. It has a certain ring to it.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:40 (twenty years ago)

For a while I thought maybe all your relationship problems stemmed from talking to yourself all the time Kate(s).

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:41 (twenty years ago)

I've sent my nomination papers to the Vatican

Have you read the Baron Corvo's Hadrian the Seventh? It could be about exactly the scenario you outline:

"Rolfe's best-known work is the novel Hadrian the Seventh, the story of an Englishman spurned by the Church who is suddenly, improbably, elevated to the Papacy. The element of wish-fulfillment is hard to ignore, but in no way does that detract from this extremely enjoyable book: rather, it seems to be the book's very engine. Hadrian the Seventh is an extended daydream, with its score-settling, homoeroticism and solemn absurdities allowed to flower freely. It is written in an unusually vivid, cranky, archaizing style and is full of fascinating detail on the operation of the Vatican and the mechanics of electing a new Pope circa 1900."

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:49 (twenty years ago)

It has taken me this long to figure out that there's more than one kate on this thread.

You just made my day Dan.

― WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 09:55 (twenty years ago)

It has taken me this long to figure out that there's more than one kate on this thread.

They're both too clever for their own good, and are into gay porn. I think there IS only 1 Kate on the thread/board - she cut herself in two when she realised that she was posting more than Ned.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:08 (twenty years ago)

One half moved the the southern hemisphere on the other side of the world from the other one in the northern hemisphere so we can work our way back to the centre in our diabolical plan to take over the world.

― Kate's evil twin (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:10 (twenty years ago)

We are triangulating along Ley Lines for total world domination a la Bill Drummond! Wait till we reveal The Kate in Antartica!!!!

― Confusion Is Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:11 (twenty years ago)

The Kate...ON ICE!

― Kate's evil twin (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:11 (twenty years ago)

And that's why Kate doesn't have sex, because she reproduces by division ala bacteria!

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:13 (twenty years ago)

Oh yeah man, I'm full of bacteria.

― Kate's evil twin (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:13 (twenty years ago)

More like hydras budding, but yes, you've figured out our cunning plan!

(Then again, even bacteria occasionally exchange DNA or else they die out after a couple of thousand clonings.)

― Confusion Is Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:14 (twenty years ago)

But you can't *both* be a little bit more intelligent than the other.

I like the sound of Kate The Saint's complementaries theory. Both of my major relationships have been with people who shared significant aspects of their personality with me, and neither worked out

(1: untidy, procrastinating, passive-aggressive. 2: shy, quiet, geeky, into BDSM but to shy to actually say so in bed)

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:27 (twenty years ago)

But you can't *both* be a little bit more intelligent than the other.

I guess you can have intelligence in different areas.

― Kate's evil twin (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:30 (twenty years ago)

I feel I shouldn't have to say it - because I whinge about it on just about every relationships thread ever - but I'm definitely one of those people who feels that I'm never going to have sex, be fancied, etc etc ever again like in the title. But then, I *have* had relationships (albeit not many), and I always feel that way in the dry spells (which last several years usually).

I will ask someone out this afternoon and inform ILE when I get knocked back.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:31 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I agree with my evil twin there. The Record Shop Girl from the previous thread used to say that artists and scientists should never date, but it worked because they were both very talented and intelligent, but in totally different fields.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:32 (twenty years ago)

You know caitlin, that's a really good idea. I'll try asking someone out this afternoon as well - it's worth a roll of the D6, dammit.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:41 (twenty years ago)

Hrmm... actually the Office Cute Boy is wearing an awfully fetching cardigan today...

NO! NO! This is madness!

― All We Need Is Two Anne's And A Jane (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:42 (twenty years ago)

Frankly, I think it's more a roll of the D100 in my case, but you never know.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 10:46 (twenty years ago)

I have just asked someone out...

(by email. I now get the feeling this might not have been a good plan.)

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 12:16 (twenty years ago)

I think it's great that you've sacrificed yourself for this thread in the name of empirical science, caitlin. And you never know, it could have a happy ending!

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 12:22 (twenty years ago)

OK, keep us posted, I'm nervous on your account!

(I tried asking for a date on the Hitchhikers Guide thread but rubbitch circumstances conspired against us.)

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 12:22 (twenty years ago)

Caitlin - can you draw the relative locations on you and the boy concerend when you asked him in ASCII. This is U&K

(Ps - good luck)

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 12:44 (twenty years ago)

.  .
^                                        ^
|                                        |
crushee                                 moi

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 12:45 (twenty years ago)

gah, that didn't work very well, did it

I meant:

. <-------------- 50 miles ---------------> .

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 12:46 (twenty years ago)

d20 againast charisma!

Good luck, askers. It is spring is things in air, etc.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 12:47 (twenty years ago)

Hence why email was necessary

(we're talking: a colleague, but one who works at a different office)

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 12:47 (twenty years ago)

The 50 miles might be the downfall.

Saying that, if it works out for you caitlin then I'll have a go myself, assuming that it's the day for that kind of thing!

Distance will not keep us apart, Kate! You're still my number one gal!

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 12:49 (twenty years ago)

I got married at 21 to my best friend.
Awwwwww how cute....
....Yeah, best friend in that we don't fuck...ever.
Last time I had sex was with another man over a year ago. I'm getting a little frustrated to say the least.

-- WE ARE THE KATE!!!! (kat...), April 6th, 2005 5:43 AM.

This makes me sad.

D: D: D: D:

― sugarpants: kind of blurry, kind of double (sugarpants), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 13:07 (twenty years ago)

The answer is dildo pants

(I mean, the answer to Kate. Not the answer I got back from 50 miles away. I haven't got an answer back at all yet.)

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 13:11 (twenty years ago)

Which Kate?

(Wait, even I'm confused now.)

((Aw, Johnney, you sweetie, why if I were ten years younger... etc. and so forth))

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 13:13 (twenty years ago)

Kate who hasn't had sex for over a year because her husband doesn't seem to want it. Although, if you've not had much lately either...

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 13:14 (twenty years ago)

Rock on, dildo pants!

He just got home and was mugged while out so i feel a bit bad for him now.

― Kate, plain and tall. (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 13:24 (twenty years ago)

forgive my crassness but innie or outie.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 13:27 (twenty years ago)

innie man, ...are you kidding?!

― Kate, plain and tall. (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 13:30 (twenty years ago)

Aw, poor thing

Ed: you missed out "both" as an option.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 13:31 (twenty years ago)

I think there IS only 1 Kate on the thread/board - she cut herself in two when she realised that she was posting more than Ned.

It was my Solomonic judgment.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 13:52 (twenty years ago)

You know, I've got 570 and my evil twin has 516 - together we have 1086 which is not just more then Ned, but more than Kenan as well!

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:10 (twenty years ago)

You know we used to be neck to neck at positions 16 and 17 last week. I feel like a separated but once conjoined twin now.

― Kate, plain and tall. (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:11 (twenty years ago)

Clearly it is a conspiracy. I must be on my guard!

(Kate in England Kate should know that I quite happily think her "Lost Rivers of Clerkenwell" song on the ILX Comp to be one of the absolute best on a very strong collection. :-))

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:15 (twenty years ago)

Awww, thanks, Ned!

(Though watch your back, we learned much from the freemasons ::lays finger aside nose::)

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:18 (twenty years ago)

Help help! *flees into the night*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

thank god i didn't follow that rule or i'd be married to a baboon. hah.
i have always tried to find people (as friends and partners) who are more intelligent than i am. i want to look up to people.

― nathalie doing a soft foot shuffle (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:21 (twenty years ago)

Well this is just my mum, she's no oracle or mystic or anything. Any her husband/my dad is a total braindead tosser so i guess thats no great advertisment either.

― Kate's evil twin (papa november), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:24 (twenty years ago)

Oh yeah man, I'm full of bacteria.
What a coincidence, I'm full of sperm! Oh wait...

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:26 (twenty years ago)

Well, my mum married a bloke who was supposed to be "slightly more intelligent than her" (read: mathematically brilliant but totally challenged in every other way) and he ended up ripping the piss out of her for the rest of the relationship for her "stupidity" and "lysdexia".

I guess that's why I always go for such dumb and pretty boys...

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:27 (twenty years ago)

Help help! *flees into the night*

That's good to know. I could potentially be a Freemason, according to my mother. Apparently my grandfather was one or something...

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:29 (twenty years ago)

hangup city, this thread

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:29 (twenty years ago)

Go away, Smug Married.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:30 (twenty years ago)

But Dr. C is not smug! He is a Chelsea fan. Oh wait. *flees again*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:36 (twenty years ago)

Anyhow. Cut the Kate unifying, if only to avoid all the Alex unifying, which could get messieh.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:45 (twenty years ago)

Just wait till the Marks join up!

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:46 (twenty years ago)

I'm off!

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:48 (twenty years ago)

Oh and also wait til Ms. Moss starts posting here...

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)

My Junkie Boyfriend's Junkie is still holding her captive in a basement in Hoxditch.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:50 (twenty years ago)

I was trying to write my junkie boyfriend's boyfriend, but that works just as well!

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

Ha ha, if you image google "junkie boyfriend" you come up with my other Future Ex-Husband:

http://www.rnb.hpg.ig.com.br/julian7.jpg

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

(except I can't get that...)

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

Going home in five minutes - but still no response yet.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

Hunh. It comes up for me... weird. It's Julian Casablancass.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

x-post OH NO!!! Does that mean we have to wait until tomorrow? (with baited breath?)

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

i could have written this. except the meds i'm on aren't SSRIs. and i'm a sagittarius, not an aries. but yeah.

― jody von bulow (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:09 (twenty years ago)

for me:

a) not much condfidence in looks
b) zero confidence in ability to be interesting and/or romantic
c) overwhelming feeling of "I can't be bothered, it'll end badly"
d) conflicting feeling of "why can't I be bothered?"

conclusion:

oh dear.

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:32 (twenty years ago)

wow this thread sure got weird.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:37 (twenty years ago)

jel, uh, not to be creepy but I randomly ILX fancy you.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

It's weird to me when people I think are perfectly lovely and fanciable IRL come on ILX and talk about their lack of self confidence. But then again, perhaps it's a bit heartening for me that lots of people often feel the same thing. Because if they're not anywhere near as rubbish as they express, then perhaps I'm not actually as rubbish as I sometimes think.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

x-post

Stence, you did tell us:

go off on tangents

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

miles is a shitty thing when you want to have sex with your penis that's only measured in terms of inches.

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

people are their own harshest critics. (xxpost)

― jody von bulow (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

The only way I could see myself having a relationship again is if I befriend someone and happen to fall in love with them and vice versa. I know I will never meet someone the way I am currently.. doing it.. which is – mostly staying in at night, and going out occasionally with my group of friends whom are a few girls and a few boys, and those few boys are the few girls’ boyfriends. Also, I seem to only be able to talk to gay men and not get tongue-tied. If I ever end up talking to a straight guy, just me and him, I’m very drunk, and I’ll end up making a fool of out myself.

Anyhow.. life goes on. I’m totally happy being single.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:42 (twenty years ago)

oh i was just observing, not complaining, kate.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:42 (twenty years ago)

(wow, gosh, that's cool jocelyn, and you like comics too!!)

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:43 (twenty years ago)

c) overwhelming feeling of "I can't be bothered, it'll end badly"
d) conflicting feeling of "why can't I be bothered?"

this is otm for me.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:44 (twenty years ago)

add c)overwhelming feeling of "I can't be bothered, it'll end badly"
and f) they'll want someone easier to deal with/live with than me, and when they find them, it's all over with "us"
and that's my main dilemma

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)

c) overwhelming feeling of "I can't be bothered, it'll end badly"
d) conflicting feeling of "why can't I be bothered?"

I have a cumulative (lifetime) total of 43 day sin a relationship and 8460 not in a relationship. And I have NO ability to approach a girl in any situation, and to a nigh-comical degree of intensity.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 15:54 (twenty years ago)

jel, I totally ILX fancy you, too!!

The problem with me is I cannot think of ONE reason why a guy would wanna date me!

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

also, I'm really busy, I can't really see how I could fit, like, a relationship into my schedule... plus, I have a cat now, which kinda seals my fate as a lonely singleton.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)

one reason? not even for teh sex?

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

1) The last guy who seemed to possibly fancy me all of a sudden became conspicuously coupled with someone else.

2) The last guy I tried to approach in a friendly manner literally flinched when I spoke to him.

― j.lu (j.lu), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:15 (twenty years ago)

I'm sure sex with me is crap!

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

yeesh.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:19 (twenty years ago)

I have a cumulative (lifetime) total of 43 day sin a relationship and 8460 not in a relationship. And I have NO ability to approach a girl in any situation, and to a nigh-comical degree of intensity.

please tell me but 5259 of those 8460 days were spent having casual sex with a different partner each day, right??

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

anyhow, what's your prob, stence, I thought you were like, smooooth?

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

Well, I'd love to go back to Siberia and try to hit on the sorts of dudes that go there, but because of finances I wouldn't be going to New York any time soon.

― j.lu (j.lu), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

i dunno.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

j.lu, trust me, you don't want to get together with any dudes that hang out there.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:24 (twenty years ago)

1x with a girl from Luxemborg. And I figure I was <15 for 5478 of those days so potential hooking-upedness is axed. Which heaves me with a total of 2982 days I could potentially have had a girlfriend and didn't. Which means that on April 24 I will celebrate my 3000th 'single' day over the age of 15.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:25 (twenty years ago)

Inadequacy dickwaving!

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

Mine's too short to wave, Nick.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:29 (twenty years ago)

Mandee, you're one hell of a catch. Come back and visit and take your pick of hott British men, or possibly my brother who I think had a soft spot for you.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

i don't think i'm inadequate at all.

xpost - god, the british men + american girl thing is SO TIRED.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

also, saying a dude has a "soft spot" ain't much of a turn on.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

I ILX fancy Mandee AND Jocelyn!

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

yeah, it's fatalistic B.S. pretty much.

Thing is, I haven't gone back to ever believing the bullshit. In fact, I've been kinda happily single now (although never ruling out anything) for a long time. It's definitely a "problem" I want to have, but at the same time, I sometimes wonder "Well... what now? Travel a lot? Play board games?". Sure! There's still too much to see. I won't be able to see the entire world anyway, before my life is up, so that thrill will never end (aside from a possible freak accident stopping the ability to fulfill the thrill.) That's not fatalistic. That's just being realistic.

But going back to Kate's point in another thread about "well, what's the point of being someone special and having great qualities/things if you have NO ONE to share you/them with?". And while that is true, I DO have people to share myself with... my friends! close friends and not-so-close friends. So I get that aspect. And without going into details, the sex aspect falls into this as well for me, though not necessarily the same friends.

Sooo, all my basic human instincts are taken care of, in this phase of my life. I might desire a different dynamic later -- or not.

The "never have sex" and "never be fancied" aspects are rooted in lack of confidence, mainly -- at least at my current age.. I'm waaaay done with my no-self-confidence phase at this point. (That mid-life crisis that's coming closer may sneak up on me and say "BOO!" though.) But as for the "never being in a relationship" part of the equation, I feel that will probably never happen to me in the foreseeable future.. and I don't see this as a bad thing. (Also, I've never had a breakup in the past end badly either.)

Admittedly, I sometimes just wish I could meet someone who feels mainly the same way, and has had the same experiences, for some simple, basic reassurance. But I never have. :/

― donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

I kind of ILX fancy Jocelyn, too.. I've said it before, I'll say it again..

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:37 (twenty years ago)

well, who doesn't?

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:37 (twenty years ago)

i dunno if i fancy her, i can't remember seeing a picture.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

Mandee looks super-pretty on all of the photo threads, so if I were her, I wouldn't be so down about my attractiveness, if you see what I mean.

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

(xpost: which is a circuitous way of saying "ditto.")

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

Adrian, thanks, but it's mostly due to some handy photography and soft focus lighting. I think I could stand to lose 30 lbs. before I would be considered conventionally attractive.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

conventionally attractive = bullshit

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:43 (twenty years ago)

Howard Devoto once said attractiveness was all about lighting. So the secret is always to travel with your own lighting crew.

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:46 (twenty years ago)

30 lbs! wtf that's insane. weight and attractiveness are not interchangeable attributes.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:47 (twenty years ago)

No, I genuinely believe it. If all of us are vouching for you, you're plenty attractive enough. xpost

― AdrianB (AdrianB), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:48 (twenty years ago)

lighting is hugely important, along with alcohol. i'm always surprised that people who don't get drunk in dimly-lit bars ever get anywhere, sex-wise.

xpost to momus

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:49 (twenty years ago)

i get drunk in dimly-lit bars all the time. : (

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:50 (twenty years ago)

it sucks, but i can understand where mandee is coming from. when i was 35lbs lighter, i got a pretty much constant barrage of suitors. not all quality suitors, necessarily, but if one is just going by the numbers then it's fairly telling.

more xposts

― lauren (laurenp), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:52 (twenty years ago)

I should start drinking, it'd probably be a good decision < /semi-serious>

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:52 (twenty years ago)

If you're never had alcohol before, it might be! I'll admit requiring a beer or two to filter out some shyness and insecurity in a bar type scenario. (though it doesn't matter as I don't go to bars by myself, or at least go JUST for the purpose of trying to find that special one.)

― donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:56 (twenty years ago)

Howard Devoto once said attractiveness was all about lighting. So the secret is always to travel with your own lighting crew.

Thus rock stars and politicians are explained.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

(xpost to jel -- which doesn't mean you won't find someone special, if you go with friends, of course.)

― donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

I never, EVER understood how the drinking at a bar/mating ritual is supposed to go, I've never hooked up w/anyone from a bar. But it seems to work for other people, so hey...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

(xpost again -- in fact, maybe going with friends more consistently is a better way to go, initially, then having a drink.)

(Shakey.. different strokes, different folks.. you make a great point though.)

― donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 16:59 (twenty years ago)

That's why I think, as I stated above, that I will never get a boyfriend and/or even hook up in my current situation, in that my only contact with the opposite sex is going to bars or clubs -- i mean, in those settings I am competing with girls who are THIN and CUTE and I just can't compete. The only way I can compete is if my PERSONALITY SPARKLES, and no one will ever know that unless they actually get to know me. So, yeah.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

i've hooked up with people i've met at bars but not, like, that same night.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

I met the girl I'm seeing at a bar, mandee, and I think she's heavier than you. She's in a band though. Which is kind of the pinnacle of sparkling personality for me. Grab that sax!

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:03 (twenty years ago)

I'll never have sax.

― Leon WK (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:04 (twenty years ago)

Everyone is turned OFF by the SAX, MICCIO.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:05 (twenty years ago)

wtf that's bonkers! There's gotta be some Quaterflash fan who will pop a woody the second he hears that you can honk the horn.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:05 (twenty years ago)

or Essential Logic!

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:06 (twenty years ago)

I've just never understood how you're supposed to rope someone into coming home with you when you both have to yell to be heard, are steadily impairing your judgment w/alcohol, surrounded by competition, etc. I'm not sayin I didn't try, but it always seemed incredibly forced and awkward to me.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:07 (twenty years ago)

I'd explain how but me and the girl in question can't remember why we were making out in the middle of the bar. It just happened! Drink and drink and wait for magic.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:07 (twenty years ago)

I've only ever dated one girl I met at a bar. Otherwise, it's all been house parties at friends' places for me, thus far.

― donut debonair (donut), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:09 (twenty years ago)

i'm still drinking. : (

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:09 (twenty years ago)

i just suck at talking to people.

― latebloomer: strawman knockdowner (latebloomer), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:11 (twenty years ago)

yeah, i'm bad at that, too. Apparently I seem really bitchy/pretentious.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:12 (twenty years ago)

i am having serious negative reactions to the things that mandee is saying . . . but i think it's because it's hitting so close to home. the thing is: i have a boyfriend & i *still* sometimes feel "not enough" a lot of the time. i feel like i need to lose 15-20 lbs to get healthier/more attractive/etc. or at least lose some inches in a couple o' spots.
the thing with bars (at least for me & moreso when i was single) was that if someone approached me, i was flattered, but i never thought i would actually *meet* someone there. i think the most fruitful way to meet people is probably through friends. eventually someone who is a friend of a friend & available & interesting pops up & if they don't, then maybe a cousin or something will.
there's always classes to take or organizations to join to meet folks, but that's never quite the same energy as meeting people in bars. and it is those very places that benefit the personality sparkles of people like mandee & (if i may be so bold) myself. i dunno. i'm totally rambling here. i'd wager that mandee might be right on the cusp of meeting someone b/c it seems as though those sorts of things happen exactly when you are content with being right where you are & alone. then someone walks in & screws it up a little. in a nice way, though. and there is usually actual screwing, which is a bonus.

― kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)

I should note that I only had two snog sessions over the last two years before this bar interlude. So it's not like I'm a skilled player. I'm just saying people do fall ass-backwards into these things. No reason to be fatalistic.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:15 (twenty years ago)

i'm good at talking to people. i like drinking in dimly lit places. i'm not bald/balding. do i smell bad or something? or am i just ugly? bad teeth?

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:16 (twenty years ago)

you should be balding. balding is hot.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:17 (twenty years ago)

try shaving in a fake receding hairline. Get the Ted Leo.

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:17 (twenty years ago)

someone who is a friend of a friend & available & interesting pops up & if they don't, then maybe a cousin or something will

No matter how desperate things get, don't take the incest path, Kelsey!

― Momus (Momus), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:18 (twenty years ago)

my friend cliff is visiting, and he's very bald at this point, and he always pulls. but girls always compliment me on my hair, i dunno, this is all so weird.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)

My theory:

If you're male and mention being lonely / single people thing you're badgering for attention and become annoyed.

If you're female and mention being lonely / single people take it as a come-on line and badger you for consideration as beau or easy sexual partner.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:22 (twenty years ago)

Can I just say that I hate to admit that "people" were right and it's really difficult to casually meet people after college?
I know about the weight thing too, as I am now 20 pounds heavier than I was before my major life changing relationship fiasco. And every day I see adorable little college girls in short skirts and think, "I am a better person than this, I should not be vain or jealous."
(I totally ILXfancy Jordan and Mandee btw)

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)

*pouts*

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:33 (twenty years ago)

(Oh yeah, and totally john and adamrl too!)

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

that's what i get for giving you the equivalent of a barely raised eyebrow from across a crowded room

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:36 (twenty years ago)

"Drink and drink and wait for magic. "

but this process made me a very drunk and bitter person (once upon a time)... I had better luck in college, or later w/friends of friends, house parties, etc. all a moot point now....

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

Shakey, don't let this thread get you down. It's just for emo kids to cry into each others' shoulders.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:44 (twenty years ago)

I've never had any luck pulling in a dimly lit bar situation either, although I did meet my longest relationship in a coffee shop at a free music night.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

oh it's not getting me down Remy, it's just allowing me to reminisce about a time in my life when I was WAY more miserable. I'm a much cheerier chap nowadays, just thought I'd kick in my experiences on the odd chance that they'd be helpful for others...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:47 (twenty years ago)

Good. I've decided that this thread is the equivalent of stumbling into the 'cool losers' table in high school and hearing a bunch of fantastically popular kids saying "oooh, yeah. I'm such a dork. I'm SOOOO lame. Look at me," while I'm standing in hip-waders and a beanie to the side and measuring my cock on a slide-rule. So I interject "I'm lame too..." and they're like "...yeah whatever..." and go back to talking about keggers and fucking cheerleaders in the ass, etc.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:56 (twenty years ago)

um thanks for the incest warning. do i need to clarify that i didn't mean members of my own family?

― kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 17:57 (twenty years ago)

yeah i don't think that the guy who's happily married is gonna get down by this thread.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:00 (twenty years ago)

Everytime I have gaps of singledom (which can go on for years) I always marvel at couples and think, "I can't even remember how relationships start..."

When I'm in a relationship I always think, "Why was I so distraught while I was single?"

It's just kind of a dumb cycle.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

remy, we didn't have cheerleaders at my high school.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

I'm convinced to this day that the only people having sex at my high school were the band nerds.

(okay yes I confess I am currently happily married, but I still have many years of single misery/massive insecurities to draw on!)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

& I don't really own hip-waders.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

H NO!!! Does that mean we have to wait until tomorrow? (with baited breath?)

We'll *both* have to wait until tomorrow

(if not longer, natch)

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:09 (twenty years ago)

girls always compliment me on my hair

This is the best thing I've heard all day. I don't know why; I just think it's so cool that girls compliment you on your hair.

― sugarpants: kind of blurry, kind of double (sugarpants), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

http://www.dazeofourlives.com/goodhairday.gif

― sugarpants: kind of blurry, kind of double (sugarpants), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:16 (twenty years ago)

The funny thing is that after my last relationship ended, I actually looked forward to being single again. It was a long relationship - probably, it had gone on a bit too long - and I kind of missed having the total freedom of being single - the ability to play the music I wanted on the stereo, watch the TV shows and movies I wanted to see, spend more time reading without distractions, and basically do whatever I felt like. That sort of "honeymoon" period of being single again went on for quite a while, but I think now it's sort of wearing off, and I'm starting to think I was much happier when I was in the relationship. Oh well.

― o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

my hair isn't that cool.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

I can never decide whether my curly, shaggy hair is an asset or not. There are times when it grows out too much and I'm convinced I look like a slob, but then I do get random compliments sometimes (my friend Megan most recently), and my hairstylist never wants to give me a short cut because she likes the way it looks.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

I do sympathize with the "too burned out to pursue another relationship" sentiment. If, god forbid, anything went wrong with my marriage or one of us died before the other or something, I don't really foresee myself having the emotional strength/dedication necessary to pursue another relationship. From then on it would probably just be me, porn, and a lot of drugs.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

jaymc and stence both have great hair.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

my hair's better.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

From then on it would probably just be me, porn, and a lot of drugs.

YES

― sugarpants: kind of blurry, kind of double (sugarpants), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

hstencil: Let's say the loser of our Trivial Pursuit match has to shed a lock.

― jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:27 (twenty years ago)

get ready to get shaved then, dude.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:28 (twenty years ago)

yikes!

― kelsey (kelstarry), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

My theory:

If you're male and mention being lonely / single people thing you're badgering for attention and become annoyed.

If you're female and mention being lonely / single people take it as a come-on line and badger you for consideration as beau or easy sexual partner.

-- Remy (jcoomb...), April 6th, 2005.

otm

― latebloomer: strawman knockdowner (latebloomer), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

not surprising that two geeky dudes in their early twenties would agree on that.

Get out more!

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 19:23 (twenty years ago)

I totally have an inadequacy catch-22. I don't think I'm attractive or interesting enough to get a boyfriend, but on the other hand I kind of think I'm too good for most people I meet. I think I am TOO INTERESTING AND COMPLEX for anyone to understand!
I agree with that entirely, except that sometimes I don't feel like I'm interesting/complex enough for people I do like and that everything I say and do seems mechanical and contrived...or sometimes I'm intimidated by those who do intrigue me. It takes a bit to make me feel perfectly comfortable, and even when I do feel comfortable I still can't help but wonder if they think I'm unnerving.

― What we want? Sex with T.V. stars! What you want? Ian Riese-Moraine! (Eastern Ma, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

Tom, I've told you this privately but I'm going to say it here: that "you're all losers" comedy schtick on every. single. relationship. thread. is getting. kind. of. old.

Remy, your theory is only partially correct. The female part is the wrong part. It's half true and half not true--people can be just as unsympathetic to females, depending on how the female portrays her "I'm soooo single" routine, basically.

― Allyzay Subservient 50s-Type (allyzay), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)

i know people who are in more than one relationship and they continue to believe they will never be fancied by anyone else in their lives or get with anyone else but their current partners. so i don't think this scenario just applies to single people. confidence doesn't magically appear when you're getting action.

― di, Wednesday, 6 April 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

It took me a while to figure out that a) many more people think any given reasonably modest person is cute than that person would guess; b) it's actually not too difficult to get people who aren't total strangers to have sex with you if you don't act all creepy about it; c) while boasting is abhorrent, self-deprecation is a good way to scare people off too; d) taking compliments gracefully (i.e. not trying to deflect them) is a very attractive quality.

― Douglas (Douglas), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 23:28 (twenty years ago)

If it helps, I totally ILX-fancy you, Jer. I dunno why you're so hard on yrself!

Also, Di is OTM... I'm really happy in my r'ship yet I *still* beat myself up all the time for being a horrible crap g/f, feeling ugly, sexless, etc blah feh.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 6 April 2005 23:45 (twenty years ago)

I think Douglas is rather OTM.

― tokyo rosemary (rosemary), Thursday, 7 April 2005 01:05 (twenty years ago)

Yes, I agree.

Much as I'm sure we all indulge, I have to say constant self-deprecation and "aw no, but really I am rubbish" is very offputting.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 7 April 2005 01:37 (twenty years ago)

it's actually not too difficult to get people who aren't total strangers to have sex with you if you don't act all creepy about it

If you ever publish a book providing more detail on this, I'll be the first to buy it, Douglas.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 01:39 (twenty years ago)

Yeah douglas basically spelled out what I was implying with my statement!

― Allyzay Subservient 50s-Type (allyzay), Thursday, 7 April 2005 01:54 (twenty years ago)

oh, since i've written, i guess it's been said, but still...
this thread is kinda interesting. i had these exact sentiments last month, and will probably have em tomorrow. but seeing them laid out, they seem, well, self-absorbed and silly. there seems to be some comfort or pride or competition or maybe just habit in indulging in them.

i'm trying to change myself, i think it's so much better NOT feeling like this. you can be alone and *genuinely* not feel like a failure about it (just like you can be with someone and feel like a failure). and not live your life like all you have is stalkers and unrequited crushes, either too good or too shitty for any given person. you're probably just picky - and being a drama queen about it because it's fuckin hard. not like you can just pick yourself up from feeling like shit, but use your pissy inner critic to your advantage and perhaps look at yourself from a distance and think 'is this what i want to be?' or alternatively, start trying to pull 14-year-old bright eyes fans

― lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Thursday, 7 April 2005 02:05 (twenty years ago)

yeah, on the face of it, it is pretty silly.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 7 April 2005 02:29 (twenty years ago)

there's not much logic involved in feeling lonely i guess. but knowing that doesn't make it less crappy.

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 7 April 2005 02:32 (twenty years ago)

exactly.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 7 April 2005 02:37 (twenty years ago)

but i think there's a difference between being lonely and stubbornly declaring you'll never be with anyone ever again. of course everyone gets lonely - it's there and you can't help it. but some thought patterns that surround it can make it worse - on you and everyone around you. or i should say me and everyone around me. i can't speak for anyone else. (but they seem similar to the patterns expressed here)

― lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Thursday, 7 April 2005 03:09 (twenty years ago)

there isn't anyone around me. that's why i'm lonely.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 7 April 2005 03:11 (twenty years ago)

well I mean the recent "advice", if you want to call all of this that really (I mean it is advice but easier said than done etc), think of it in terms of di's post--i mean you can find yourself in a relationship and still feel pretty awful about yourself anyway, or lonely. So it's kind of like an all-over thing, find a way to think more about lolita or Douglas's thoughts because being in a relationship won't necessarily help overcome the root problem some people might be having.

xpost

― Allyzay Subservient 50s-Type (allyzay), Thursday, 7 April 2005 03:12 (twenty years ago)

definitely true. sometimes i've never felt lonelier than when i'm sleeping next to someone.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 7 April 2005 03:20 (twenty years ago)

stubbornly declaring you'll never be with anyone ever again

speaking for myself, i don't stubbornly declare this... i just worry that it may be the case. and i find myself more preoccupied by those thoughts and worries when i'm feeling lonely. most of the time my life is tops though so i don't worry about it too much!

also whoever said upthread that they worry about this in the hope they'll be proved wrong.... i definitely do that too!

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 7 April 2005 03:35 (twenty years ago)

#1 insecurity -- only being mentally fit at any given moment to talk about rather specialized, insular, and dull to most of the world things. relatedly, taking conversations about other things and turning them into conversations about the former things. this is obv. not just a "finding relationship" problem for me at the moment, but significantly more general.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 7 April 2005 04:01 (twenty years ago)

I have this idea because of the following reasons: I have only had one relationship ever, so it's not like I've ever been in demand; I have gained a lot of weight in college, and I wasn't even pretty in the first place; I don't know anyone who fancies me, as far as I know, or whom I fancy; I'm not very interesting, and instead of saying interesting things calmly, when I talk I talk very nervously, about "funny things" that have happened to me, and I always feel like I look like I'm trying really hard to make people like me.

― Maria (Maria), Thursday, 7 April 2005 04:28 (twenty years ago)

On the "I don't have interesting things to say" issue: it is a cliche, but nobody has ever said "he/she listens too much." Especially if you're worried about seeming insular/dull, it's almost never a bad idea to ask questions to draw out the person you're talking to.

O. Nate: not acting all creepy is urgent & key. Most people will do anything you ask them to as long as it's clear you're not going to hurt them, take their money, or do something that will make life more unpleasant for them in the future; most people's radar for detecting those impulses is very strong. If it's clear that you're looking to have sex with someone for self-validation, or to control them, or for future bragging rights, or because you have an image of them as something they aren't, etc., they will run away.

On the self-deprecation front: it is actively icky to have sex with someone who's embarrassed about their body, no matter how formally "attractive" they may be. (Vivid incident from my college years: a pretty cute girl I was friends with who one day got me alone, whipped off her top, and said "Do I repulse you?" Um, please put that back on.) Cuteness is VERY much in the way you present yourself; figuring out how to appreciate whatever you've got is totally key.

― Douglas (Douglas), Thursday, 7 April 2005 06:06 (twenty years ago)

(Also: wanting to be in A relationship is a good way to scare off everyone except predators. Wanting to be in a specific relationship is a lot easier to manage.)

― Douglas (Douglas), Thursday, 7 April 2005 06:10 (twenty years ago)

I've been very attracted to guys who have then pummled home the "I'm depressed and I hate myself" thing so hard I ran away freaking. And I'm no confidence poster myself. But yeesh, some people are so relentlessly "get away I suck" that you wonder why they want someone?

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 7 April 2005 06:19 (twenty years ago)

ANd in saying this I by no means want to imply anyone in this thread is doing this.

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 7 April 2005 06:20 (twenty years ago)

nice save, heh.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 7 April 2005 06:24 (twenty years ago)

Subtract the "again" from the thread title and you've got one of my predicaments.

I've never felt "wanted" or loved in a special sort of romantic way. I've known love from family members and love from (mostly -- like 90% mostly -- female) friends. I say this still, to this very day, even though I'm already 25. If it weren't for the fact that my opinions about nuns have changed from the time I was 18, I would be seriously considering giving up and entering a convent.

It's not like I want a relationship NOW, mind. I don't know if, with my extreme lack of self-esteem, I'd be really ready for one. But it'd be nice to know that that could still be in the cards. And when I take a good, hard look at who I am, what I look like, etc., I feel so unwanted and repulsive that it's a mystery to me how I'd ever achieve that. But -- what's really disturbing is that I've never been able to call a hetero male a "good, trusted" friend! I mean, possibly "not yet", as I'm developing acquaintanceships with a couple of these people, but by and large all my True Blues are either female or gay male. Which is... weird. And interconnected with my impulse to just give up and resign myself to a life of permanent spinstership. Because I see relationships as always having their basis in friendship, and if I can't even achieve the friendship part, I'm screwed even before I begin to change things such as my outer appearance (because I feel like a hideous hosebeast 99.9% of the time).

So... yeah. Loneliness. Which has extended down to other relationships with people. Yeah.

― I am that unhip, naive nobody you always avoid. (Dee the Lurker), Thursday, 7 April 2005 06:26 (twenty years ago)

But yeesh, some people are so relentlessly "get away I suck" that you wonder why they want someone?

I fear/figure I'm one of these people, so I'll answer.

It's because... well... just the thought that someone wants you seems so exotic, so exciting, that we sorta view it as a possible salve to heal us from the demons we constantly encounter inside our heads. I know that I personally fantasize about being wanted, being loved in a way I've never been loved before. And I (maybe naively) figure that once that happens, that would kill off some of the self-doubting and -hatred that resides deep within my being.

And... well... I already know I can acquire and maintain friendships. Yeah. But to have something more? Wow, that would be... yeah. I don't know if any of this is making sense to you because I'm already sorta dropping in and out of consciousness, but that's as best as I can explain it from my own POV.

― I am that unhip, naive nobody you always avoid. (Dee the Lurker), Thursday, 7 April 2005 06:30 (twenty years ago)

As a great philosopher once said, "I am the son and the heir of a shyness that is criminally vulgar." And I have a sneaky suspicion that this is the worst thing - knowing that however rubbish you think you are, thinking that you're rubbish is even worse, and you know this, and that makes you feel even worse. Proper catch-22, and like all catch-22s a bugger to get out of.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Thursday, 7 April 2005 06:51 (twenty years ago)

I already know I can acquire and maintain friendships.

And you will find, Dee, that this can very likely then be where a relationship comes from! :) The best kind usually, too. My bf was a friend and nothing more for 2 years before we realised :)

― Trayce (trayce), Thursday, 7 April 2005 06:53 (twenty years ago)

This thread stayed with me all last night and this morning (and not just cause I was thinking sexxy flirty thoughts about Stence).

Insecurities aside...

Where does the idea of "never" come from?

Well, part of it is fear, and the biological clock ticking and the thought that in less than a week I hit that age when women traditionally become invisible. Yeah, I know, conceptions of age have changed over the past few decades, and it's not like it was in Jane Austen where you were a spinster at 25. But it does give me The Fear of "what if it *never* happens?"

I feel like I had kind of a late start in relationships - I didn't have a serious relationship at all until I was 30.

The other thing is the fear that I have been somehow "broken" by bad relationships. That I've suffered so much betrayal, and so much reinforcement of negative patterns that I'm never going to be *able* to be in a trusting relationship again. That's kind of even scarier.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 07:37 (twenty years ago)

dee, why you want someone makes sense. it's human, it's universal. yours seems more 'come to me i suck', which i guess is what is really meant in the first place. come to me and fix me! which can work for some people, but even they feel attractive in some way and usually work some vulnerable damaged angle.
(ie. morrissey's lyrics say one thing, but his moves, clothes, fame, and pretty much everything else about him say another. anyone knows that guy can get any ass he wants. ergo he's a fucking retarded example of 'pathetic'. he's the kind of enigma that confuses people - like a less observant younger me - who TRULY think they're pathetic into thinking they can somehow make that insecurity attractive).

it's the hardest thing in the world to feel attractive when you aren't attracting people. but you HAVE TO like yourself or some aspects. it's that kind of shitty paradox that makes life suck so bad. a lover often won't kill your demons, they just give you new ones. but you can't give up on something you really want. it sucks when it seems like so much more work when to others it comes easy, but it might be a bigger payoff too.

― lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Thursday, 7 April 2005 07:41 (twenty years ago)

Still no response from yesterday's experiment. No doubt the crushee is trying to work out how to say no politely.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 07:54 (twenty years ago)

Oh dear. I'm sorry. You never know. Maybe he's out of the office for a week-long conference and just hasn't seen it yet...?

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 07:56 (twenty years ago)

D.Wolk talks great wisdom here.

**Go away, Smug Married.**

Ha - won't!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 7 April 2005 08:22 (twenty years ago)

Because if it hasn't happened yet...

― Melissa W (Melissa W), Thursday, 7 April 2005 08:30 (twenty years ago)

I think it's easy to get so wrapped up in your own stuff that you can easily overlook when people do randomly fancy you; it's the kind of thing you need to keep on your radar, and while that can be less easy to do if you're cautious about your own egotism (not wanting to come across as a complete egomaniac is always a good impulse), it's something you should still maintain is possible. If you think, "Well, why not?" chances are you'll notice people finding you more interesting than if you foreclose it in advance. (Yes I am saying stuff that's already been said, but in my own special little way, and that is why I am the keymaster.)

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Thursday, 7 April 2005 08:40 (twenty years ago)

Douglas's comments reminds me of why I left southern California... Mind you, there are a lot of great people down there, that I've met via here, and I've met throughout my life, of course -- and many are still amongst my best friends. But amidst those friends are a sea of the type of people Douglas is referring to... otherwise quite attractive people who have this horrible self-deprecating complex about their own looks.

I hate to go on and on and on about how moving from SoCal has totally changed my perspective about myself positively in some of these threads, but in this case, it truly has. All of those self-deprecating "hotties" who deflate their hottiedom by being so negative about themselves are far more rare in Seattle (and, after talking with JaXon about this a few weeks ago in person, in SF as well, apparently), that it was one less thing I had to worry about when beginning to socialize here. I never realized it until Douglas put it into words right now.

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 08:42 (twenty years ago)

(to clarify, none of my SoCal friends I referred to above are of that self-deprecating kind.. quite the opposite... but you guys are suffering in that overall ratio. Get yourselves together and make sexy confidence babies, already! Go!)

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 7 April 2005 08:45 (twenty years ago)

Great. So now I feel even *more* insecure.

Not only do I feel bad about myself because I feel ugly, I feel bad about myself for *feeling* ugly.

Oh, I just give up. Why can't we just have secular convents where women who have given up on men just go away and read books?

(Oh wait, we do, they're called Feminist Studies depts.)

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 08:46 (twenty years ago)

I mean, I know from experience that sexiness is not actually anything to do with physical appearance. It's about confidence and feeling/acting like a fanciable person. But it's like, here's just one more erosion to that sense of confidence that has been ebbing.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 08:49 (twenty years ago)

Maybe he's out of the office for a week-long conference and just hasn't seen it yet...?

Being an email admin, I can see that it has been read but not deleted.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 08:54 (twenty years ago)

Bad admin! Use your powers for good, not evil!

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 08:55 (twenty years ago)

I do my best, but the Dark Side can be tempting sometimes.

"checking to see if it's been read" is about the limit of what I dare do, though. Anything else would make me nervous and uncomfortable.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 09:21 (twenty years ago)

Did you learn nothing from that whole Peep Show episode about the dangers of Email Admin Darkside Powers?

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 09:22 (twenty years ago)

in our work email system everyone can tell if internal emails have been read, they are 'opened' in the sent items folder

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 7 April 2005 09:28 (twenty years ago)

Yet another reason why I don't think I could ever have a relationship with someone at work. Sigh.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 09:29 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha, my horoscope today: "You will receive answers to the questions that you seek"

I have to phone up The Crush's office in 90 minutes or so - which might be informative.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:03 (twenty years ago)

haha i hope he answers the phone caitlin! how cheeky not to respond at all, even if it is bad news he could just politely decline.

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:04 (twenty years ago)

Rant coming...

God, why do men *do* that?

It's like they're trying to figure out the most awkwardness-sparing way of declining, or hoping if they don't answer it will go away, when all is required is a simple NO.

I once asked a boy for a date, and he waffled and wibbled and didn't give me a straight answer - and in the meantime I received an invitation from a friend to a dinner party. So there I was, not wanting to be rude and recind the offer of a date, but had the boy DECLINED IMMEDIATELY as he obviously intended to do, it would have sorted out my social life a lot quicker.

So bloody inconsiderate!

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:08 (twenty years ago)

You went on the dinner right?

Scenario:
Boy: OK
You: TOO LATE! HAHAHAHAH!

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:19 (twenty years ago)

Yes, I went on the dinner, but it was more like

Boy: (days later) sorry, but something has come up...
Me: TOO LATE!!! (and it would have been really nice to have known that earlier, you fuX0r)

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:21 (twenty years ago)

I should probably try to learn a few more life lessons from watching Peep Show

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 10:24 (twenty years ago)

I know what you mean Kate. At least my invitations to ladies are declined immediately. Accepting immediately would be preferable, but still . . .

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:11 (twenty years ago)

Spoke to someone else on the phone. My original email has now been deleted. Bah. At least *some* form of acknowledgement might have been polite.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:26 (twenty years ago)

ok well now you know he isn't worth going out with too

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:27 (twenty years ago)

He might have thought it was a wind-up or a spam.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:28 (twenty years ago)

That is pretty bang out of order. You don't delete an email until it's been dealt with, otherwise it's simply bad form.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:28 (twenty years ago)

(I can now definitely say that I'm never going to have sex, or be in a relationship, or be randomly fancied, EVER again)

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:28 (twenty years ago)

how hard is it to say 'thanks but no thanks'. if he can't do that simple thing i don't think he would be a considerate lover caitlin!

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:30 (twenty years ago)

Well, you're not going to be fancied by gits (cf above behaviour) - and you didn't want to go on a date with a git now, did you?

xpost

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:30 (twenty years ago)

to be honest, I think it's probably a bit more complex than that.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:33 (twenty years ago)

Erm, it WAS a man, was it? Before we go getting all gender-angry here.

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:33 (twenty years ago)

i never go out with people from work, it might have been something like that. although on the odd occasions when i've been asked i have politely declined

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:37 (twenty years ago)

I've never been out with people I've worked with though I have shagged a couple. I think that was less complicated on balance.

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:38 (twenty years ago)

i casually shagged someone from uni last year, it has resulted in no end of awkwardness. never again.

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:40 (twenty years ago)

I have shagged a couple

Oh my god, Archel, not just colleague shagging, but swinging to boot!

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:41 (twenty years ago)

Hehe!

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:44 (twenty years ago)

I repeat...if you get an email from someone 50 miles away who purports to fancy you, then you are entitled to feel somewhat cynical about its nature. This is not the same thing as being a "git."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:52 (twenty years ago)

If person 50 miles away at least knows who caitlin is, then I see no particular reason for cynicism. If not, then yes maybe.

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:55 (twenty years ago)

Get yourselves together and make sexy confidence babies, already!

I can't get together with myself, I have no womb!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 7 April 2005 11:58 (twenty years ago)

I get together with myself regularly [/2muchinfo]

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:07 (twenty years ago)

I can't even get together with myself any more.

That's how bad my lack of confidence is - I don't even fancy myself!

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:09 (twenty years ago)

"I just don't know what to dooooooo with myself . . . . "

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:11 (twenty years ago)

Person 50 miles away a) knows me through work b) has known for a few weeks that I'm at least "interested"

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:12 (twenty years ago)

OK, let's deconstruct this, then, Caitlin.

How did you ask? Did you say something overt like "Would you like to go on a date with me?" or did you say something more vague like "Hey, would you like to go for a drink with me next time you're near our office?"

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:15 (twenty years ago)

I said "how would you feel about meeting up some time - for a meal, or something like that". I'd say that's pretty overt.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:17 (twenty years ago)

Halfway between overt and subtle.

Though since the question was "how do you feel" then I guess the answer is "I feel like deleting the email" which is a pretty shitty way to respond, but hey, at least you know.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:18 (twenty years ago)

Deleting the email is hardly an answer to *me* though

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:19 (twenty years ago)

I guess, not if he doesn't know you have email admin priviledges...

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:20 (twenty years ago)

There are some people at the office who do get paranoid that their emails are read - by their managers, not by me. They don't get read by their managers (who would have to ask me, first) and they don't get read by me (I've got better things to do than read all the office gossip and 5724309 copies of every joke going round). One of these paranoid people, though, is a good friend of the crush, so might have passed this idea on.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)

xpost

Or that you abuse them. (If only in a small way.)

Either way it's not *great* news is it, but yeah at least you know. Sorry :(

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)

You never know, I might still get a reply

(yeah, right)

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:45 (twenty years ago)

Caitlin: Did you rewrite that sentence several hundred times in your head before you were satisfied that it was the right tone, then get second thoughts, then think 'fuck it' and press send, then immediately think OMGWTF?

Kate - if I asked someone out (ha! luckily my gf made enough of a move on me for me to get past the 'am I imagining this and and about to make a horrednous faux pas') and they were unequivocal, then I got another invite, I'd go with the latter. Anyone who hasn't confirmed - touch. If they got back and said 'you know, I've decided to accept' and you say 'oh no! Going somewhere else, you've got the choice to bloe out the second arrangement or come up with a new arrangement with the first person. To do otherwise is to risk the worst of both worlds, when you can at least make sure you get half at chance at one. IMO.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 7 April 2005 13:11 (twenty years ago)

Well, Dave, it was something like this:

Response to first email: Oh, I don't know, blether...
Response to confirmation email: IGNORED

In the end, the people I went to dinner with are still very good friend, the boy proved himself to be a twat in other ways, so there wasn't much to risk.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 13:15 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha yes. OTM!

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 13:15 (twenty years ago)

I think this is normal.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 7 April 2005 13:16 (twenty years ago)

i think it's very normal, but obsessing about it this much has to make things worse.

― lauren (laurenp), Thursday, 7 April 2005 13:36 (twenty years ago)

i'm an obsessive kind of person.

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 13:38 (twenty years ago)

I meant having the thread's idea was normal, anyway.

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 7 April 2005 13:42 (twenty years ago)

Is it? Do a lot of you feel this way? Trust, we are all going to have loads and loads of sex and random fancying in our lives.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 7 April 2005 13:46 (twenty years ago)

we are all going to have loads and loads of sex

I'm gonna print this out and blutack it onto my monitor.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Thursday, 7 April 2005 13:51 (twenty years ago)

Me, too!

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 13:52 (twenty years ago)

I read that as 'bukkake it onto my monitor', so forgive me baby jesus!

xpost TIMING!

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 7 April 2005 13:54 (twenty years ago)

we are all going to have loads and loads of sex
I'm gonna print this out and blutack it onto my monitor.

-- Johnney B (john.barlo...), April 7th, 2005 2:51 PM.

why blutack when you can use...

XPOST!

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:05 (twenty years ago)

I read that as 'bukkake it onto my monitor', so forgive me baby jesus!

haha SO DID I!

― Ste (Fuzzy), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:06 (twenty years ago)

: (

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

You people have besmirched Johnney's and my good pure flirting with your filthy minds. :-(

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

I should ask someone out on a date... just to see, like, what happens.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:49 (twenty years ago)

go on, i dare you

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:50 (twenty years ago)

You know, if I could think of anyone to ask on a date, I'd do it! But the only men who seem to even interest me at the moment are geographically undesirable. :-(

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

(Though I am going drinking tonight with one of my more bold Texan friends. After a few drinks, she may have me pinching the ass of random boys. Oh dear!)

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

random pinching may lead to random fancying, you'd better be careful kate

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:52 (twenty years ago)

Or smacking them over the head with a toilet plunger, knowing her...

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

ok well i suspect that thumping random people with plumbing devices will probably keep you safe from random fancying

― gem (trisk), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:57 (twenty years ago)

Not for her, it didn't. ;-)

But then again, she is gorgeous, so I suspect she could hit boys with whatever she liked and would still get fancied.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Thursday, 7 April 2005 14:59 (twenty years ago)

this sort of stuff shouldnt be so complicated. ah to be a frog or something...

― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

you know what is THE WORST? okay, im not whining, ive just noticed this, my whole life.. but being friends with an incredibly attractive person, who is married/attached/whatever, but still has loads of people flirting with them. I've always been the second in command uglier girl!

This is sorta hard to explain if you haven't been in this situation.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:38 (twenty years ago)

ha i have this problem. all my friends are better looking than me!

― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:39 (twenty years ago)

and of course the worst of the worst is when someone tries to use you as a go-between for your hot friends.

― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

I have been in that situation mandee. It sucks big ass :(

xpost: and that one ryan :(

― Archel (Archel), Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

i'm sorry i'm your friend, guys.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

it just becomes glaringly obvious that you are ignored because you arent as attractive once you become close chums with someone who is gorgeous.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

I've been the second-in-command uglier girl, and I've been the first-in-command girl. WE NEED TO DERANK

haha xpost ken

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:46 (twenty years ago)

I've always been the second in command uglier girl

The second in command uglier girl has been a regular tactic, for me

― regular, Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:46 (twenty years ago)

it is kind of fun to watch people react to a good looking friend though.

― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:47 (twenty years ago)

It is humorous, but kinda depressing... I had a friend visit from out of town who is very good looking, very stylish, etc. I took her out to some clubs and stuff I frequent, and people who had never spoke to me came up to say hi just so I would introduce them. All weekend long dudes were calling "us" (i.e. her) to hang out. Once she left these people resumed ignoring me. OH WELL!!!!

I think I was first in command ugly girl in girl scout camp but there were no BOYS to impress.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

yeah it's probably a little different when your good looking friend is a guy because you get to watch girls get all wiggly and laugh too loud and stuff...

― ryan (ryan), Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:57 (twenty years ago)

"being friends with an incredibly attractive person, who is married/attached/whatever, but still has loads of people flirting with them"

I have never *ever* in my life felt "incredibly attractive", but since I got hitched, I have definitely noticed more women flirting/hitting on me. however, far from being a pleasurable, ego-boosting experience I find myself reacting in an incredibly mean-spirited and bitter manner a la "fuck you, where were you when I was single bah I hate all you manipulative single bitchezzz" I can't help it (hstencil was understandably unsympathetic when I brought this up before elsewhere)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 April 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

I can totally relate to that, Mo.

― Curious George (1/6 Scale Model) (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

I thought first-in-command was the pretty girl?

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

you're right.. I got confused.

I was first in command at meadow mountain camp in 1987.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

dude, whatever shakey, i got yo' back. you and your lovely wife are tops in my book.

kate re: the age thing - i don't think that matters. my last girlfriend was 45 at the time we dated, so...

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:14 (twenty years ago)

Caitlin: your invitation got ignored because it was TOTALLY VAGUE. It was "do you want to do something sometime?" There is no answer to it of equal tone that gets you anywhere nearer to getting together than it was when you sent it. People like to tone-match.

Possible correct way of putting it would have been: "Hey, are you free next Thursday night? Want to go to this really good Lebanese place I know?"

That's asking somebody out. What you wrote wasn't. (Possible responses to the actual asking-out are "sure, how about 7," which means yes; "can't make it then I'm afraid but we should do something sometime," which means no; and "can't make it then I'm afraid but how about Friday at this Italian place that just opened down the street," which means yes.)

― Douglas (Douglas), Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

not being vague sometimes doesn't work, either tho.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:19 (twenty years ago)

haha - thx h. I wish I had more helpful advice for both you and others on this thread in general, but I was really bad at being single.

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

on the being vague thing vs. being direct thing, lemme elaborate more: recently asked longtime crush a couple weeks ago to lunch at a restaurant we talked about (that i've never been to, but she knows). she ostensibly said yes, gave me her number, etc. week she says she can do it, all hell breaks loose, she throws out back and has car problems (like two days before going out of town) so it doesn't happen. i'm cool, i'm all like "well maybe we'll figure it out 2 weeks from now when you get back" and she seems cool with that.

2 weeks go by, she's back in town (again for only a couple weeks so not much time, understandably) and this time i up the stakes by again asking her to lunch, but offering to pay since her birthday was the other day. she was basically like "i just don't have the time" which is probably true but on the other hand just sounds like an excuse (not that i'm mad about that - tho she was kinda weirdly rude to me that night, and that's a bummer). so yeah, i dunno. being direct didn't do shit for me there.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:29 (twenty years ago)

http://www.disinfotainmenttoday.com/darenet/shining_weird.jpg

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:30 (twenty years ago)

also that night she was really sick and prolly didn't wanna deal anyway, so i'm in this weird position of feeling bummed out and annoyed and at the same time sympathetic. huh.

uh, okay tad? i like "the shining" too but wtf?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:31 (twenty years ago)

Want to go to this really good Lebanese place I know?

And then take him/her to Beirut!

― Markelby (Mark C), Thursday, 7 April 2005 16:43 (twenty years ago)

Hahahah!

― caitlin (caitlin), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

I think Eisbar's saying the only true way to happiness is by getting blowjobs from Furries.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

heh. i was just im-ing with my friend. we were talking about financial planning and i said 'i'm never gonna have money ever'. and he yelled at me how i do that. i guess every time i want something and realize i can't have it immediately i say i'm never gonna have it ever. i feel like a lil kid!

― lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

i am still a little worried about Eisbar.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 7 April 2005 21:41 (twenty years ago)

So, have any of you ever had the opposite of the thread question? ie: You realise there is absolutely no one you want to shag, no one you fancy, at all?

That, I tells ya, is some brain-bending misery.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 8 April 2005 03:36 (twenty years ago)

Maybe you're just asexual then.

Hey hstencil, I keep meaning to tell you that you look like this really cool guy I dated when I was like a freshman in college. He was way older than me; maybe 33 or 34, but didn't act like it. Super nice, but it obviously didn't work out. He was from Maine, though, and he took me snowshoeing once. We snowshoe'd out into the middle of nowhere in a national park, fired up a big joint and enjoyed the sun bouncing off the snow. No clue where he is now.

Anyway, yeah, you look a bit like that guy. But you have nicer hair!

― sugarpants: bea arthur's secret lover (sugarpants), Friday, 8 April 2005 03:41 (twenty years ago)

I like Stence's hair =)

You know I think I am kinda asexual - but I do still fancy people a lot, even tho Im taken.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 8 April 2005 03:48 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, now I have no one I fancy at all and it is kind of worse than when there are people and you just don't think you're good enough - you can't even test it out by trying to pursue someone if there's nobody to pursue!

― Maria (Maria), Friday, 8 April 2005 04:02 (twenty years ago)

So, have any of you ever had the opposite of the thread question? ie: You realise there is absolutely no one you want to shag, no one you fancy, at all?

Hiya Trayce! This has been my life for the last 18 months!

― RickyT (RickyT), Friday, 8 April 2005 07:28 (twenty years ago)

I was there for quite some time. Then made a total ass of myself over the first guy to blip my cute boy radar. Such is life.

Mandee... I totally hear you about being the "notsohot backup chick" to the Alpha Female. That was my life until I was about 22 or 23. It wasn't necessarily that I was particularly plain, it was just that both of my closest friends were former model gorgeous women - one of whom looked like a red-headed Brigitte Bardot and the other a stunning Raven-haired Russian beauty.

It didn't matter how I dressed or acted, when I was around them, I evaporated, as far as men were concerned.

It wasn't until I hit my mid-20s and moved to another city by myself that I was really able to be viewed as attractive in my own right, rather than someone's awkward kid sister.

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Friday, 8 April 2005 07:39 (twenty years ago)

I still haven't hit the point where people start to see me as attractive at all, and I doubt that I ever will.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 8 April 2005 07:44 (twenty years ago)

Likewise.

― Kate's evil twin (papa november), Friday, 8 April 2005 07:49 (twenty years ago)

Tips for discovering that you can be attractive:

-Move to another city. Preferably one where your accent will be viewed as "hott"
-Join a band. Go onstage.

All of a sudden, you will discover that you are actually fanciable!

― We Are All Full Of Kate (kate), Friday, 8 April 2005 07:53 (twenty years ago)

I can side with the feeling of never having sex or being in a relationship but I still manage to be randomly fancied, it's just that I'm so bad at dealing with it that the first two parts never come into play anymore.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Friday, 8 April 2005 08:03 (twenty years ago)

Thread people, you will have sex and be in a relationship and be randomly fancied again I promise! I hope y'all feel better soon, lots.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 8 April 2005 08:07 (twenty years ago)

Can I hunt you down and kill you with guns if it turns out that you're wrong? ;-)

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Friday, 8 April 2005 08:08 (twenty years ago)

Yes!

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 8 April 2005 08:10 (twenty years ago)

(pref before finals)

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 8 April 2005 08:12 (twenty years ago)

Have you met Greg, Kate? I'm guessing that once you've hunted him down, it's not killing him that'll be your immediate desire...

― Markelby (Mark C), Friday, 8 April 2005 08:16 (twenty years ago)

I was going to offer rape as an alternate option, but figured he would not be keen. ;-)

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Friday, 8 April 2005 08:17 (twenty years ago)

My boss, half an hour ago:

"_____ is trying to print out soome urgent files and the printer's not working - can you phone up and sort it out?"

So, that was certainly the most awkward half-hour phone call I've had for a while - and going by tone of voice, I'm not the only one. The email was, of course, not mentioned at all.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 8 April 2005 08:45 (twenty years ago)

eeek. That sounds horrible, Caitlin. I guess you definitely know the answer now, but bad form on the guy for not even bothering to acknowledge your question...

― carson dial (carson dial), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:12 (twenty years ago)

I'm not surprised there was no acknowledgement, though, because the other office is very open-plan, and everyone can overhear everyone else's conversations.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:17 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, but email's not exactly overhearable, is it? I still think he's a twunt.

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:19 (twenty years ago)

Going by the tone of voice, there's a certain level of shyness involved. There was a *lot* of tension in that conversation.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:21 (twenty years ago)

Okay, a shy twunt.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:24 (twenty years ago)

Send him another email reminding him that "shyness can stop you from doing all the things in life you'd like to."

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:27 (twenty years ago)

Like asking him out properly instead of sending over-vague emails.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:31 (twenty years ago)

Actually, that might work if I was in this situation with the other Office Crush, who is apparently a bit of a Smiths fan - but who isn't at all shy, so it wouldn't be likely to happen.

("bit of a Smiths fan" = "has heard of not-that-well-known album tracks")

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:34 (twenty years ago)

I think it's a bit soon though. What's the etiquette on how long before you can send a follow-up email if the first one has been ignored?

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:34 (twenty years ago)

Cannot you just TALK to him?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:36 (twenty years ago)

-Move to another city. Preferably one where your accent will be viewed as "hott"
-Join a band. Go onstage.

I am SO moving to the US.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:39 (twenty years ago)

It would be a bit unfair for me to phone up, given the open-plan office situation at the other end.

No doubt _____ now thinks I'm a twunt too because I didn't mention it either.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:40 (twenty years ago)

Well, I don't know. In my day if you fancied someone at work, knew they weren't spoken for and got on well with them you just walked up to their desk and asked them out, open-plan office or no open-plan office.

If the work situation is so oppressive that you can't even indulge in a little socialising for fear of the sack then I would suggest finding an alternative job where you can.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:44 (twenty years ago)

i'm sorry, but i think that an ignored/deleted email is a fairly clear signal.

― lauren (laurenp), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:48 (twenty years ago)

i.e., no follow-up needed.

― lauren (laurenp), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:49 (twenty years ago)

I'm not worried about getting the sack; just think it would be a bit cruel to cause extreme embarrassment.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:49 (twenty years ago)

Carry on thinking that way and you'll never go out with anyone. For Christ's sake, hen, ASSERT yourself! Let him know where the land lies! How many beans make five! Etc.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:52 (twenty years ago)

Are you just trying to get me to humiliate myself a second time?

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:57 (twenty years ago)

1290 more answers by August 2005!

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 8 April 2005 09:58 (twenty years ago)

People other than my mum say "how many beans make five"!??

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Friday, 8 April 2005 10:06 (twenty years ago)

Office Romance situations are difficult enough to start with, and need to be handled with extra special tact and discretion. I think that _______ has made his feelings of awkwardness plain enough to leave off further advances. Act as if everything is normal, and things will return to normal.

The last thing you want to do, chance of romance or not, is create an awkward situation with someone with whom you have to interact on a daily basis!

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Friday, 8 April 2005 10:11 (twenty years ago)

At least we *don't* have to interact on a daily basis - today was the first time we'd spoken for a couple of weeks or so.

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 8 April 2005 10:13 (twenty years ago)

i never have this feeling, at least i haven't since high school. i'm rather optimistic in a general way.

i get really exhausted sometimes by miscommunication and misunderstandings both within a relationship and with people you're interested in. that sort of stuff drives me to distraction, but never quite despair. i feel like the world affords plenty of other opportunities for despair without latching onto this one.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:10 (twenty years ago)

my biggest problem is that i'm really shallow and often decide i'm not intereted in people for dumb reasons, and chase after people i really have little business being interested in.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

e) because I'm more interested in getting pedantic about the forthcoming Transformers movie.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 8 April 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

my biggest problem is that i'm really shallow and often decide i'm not intereted in people for dumb reasons, and chase after people i really have little business being interested in.

heh. me too - well the latter mostly. i was always too shy to approach anyone. i finally did last year, but what a big drama/disappointment. oh well. i used to wind myself up into a repressed, frustrated frenzy when i liked someone (but liked them based on what? nothing really). now i know my superficial taste is not to be trusted. and i relieve myself of initiating duties.

― lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Friday, 8 April 2005 18:46 (twenty years ago)

ahahahaha

― Jeromathan Millions (nordicskilla), Friday, 8 April 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

what is a dumb reason to become disinterested in someone?

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Friday, 8 April 2005 18:54 (twenty years ago)

they aren't glamorous/mysterious enough

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 8 April 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

or alternatively: you aren't seized by an urge to jump their bones immediately upon meeting them

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 8 April 2005 19:25 (twenty years ago)

so you are looking for someone incredibly mysterious, glamorous, and gorgeous? that's a tall order, mister! but i guess it's what everyone wants.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Friday, 8 April 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

But that describes YOU, Mandee!

― caitlin (caitlin), Friday, 8 April 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

ihttp://bitchcakes.topcities.com/spencerchow/allyfinger.jpg

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 8 April 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

I don't want some mysterious, glamorous, and beautiful!!! wait, let me start over. I don't want some mysterious and glamorous!! Finding where my keys are is enough mystery for me in my life and glamorous=high maintenence!

― ()ops (()()ps), Friday, 8 April 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)

Why can't we just have secular convents where women who have given up on men just go away and read books?

(Oh wait, we do, they're called Feminist Studies depts.)

Ahh, that's so mean! When my mother worked for the Women's Studies Department at the local uni half of everyone there was married. Only my mother lacked marital bliss out of those...but my mother was already gratefully separated by that time.

Want to go to this really good Lebanese place I know?

And then take him/her to Beirut!

I want to go to a Lesbianese bar in Beirut.

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Friday, 8 April 2005 23:53 (twenty years ago)

is there an arabic jonathan richman?

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 9 April 2005 13:32 (twenty years ago)

the thing about people fancying you, is that the ones that fancy you are the ones that you hacve no idea about. theyre the ones siting at the other end of the room that you cant see. I sometimes think this, "fuck i wish someone fancied me" thing, but it strikes me that somebody porbably does fancy me, somewhere, but for some reason theyre not holding up that sign that says "omg i want YOU", which would be more helpful. so you look at a girl/boy across a room and think "blimey shes cute", and maybe she does the same. then you go back to drinking beer and go home. the end.

its not exactly positive, but i think that it is a good idea to believe that people do you fancy you.

also, someone people express an opinion on here similar to "wtf everyone will have sex or be in a relationship again, such a thing just doesnt happen to people", i dont think that is helpfuil, as people DO never have sex, and people DO never form relationships, right until their dieing day.

― ambrose (ambrose), Saturday, 9 April 2005 14:14 (twenty years ago)

like the pope for starters

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 9 April 2005 14:23 (twenty years ago)

I think the idea of never-being-fancied-again (detour - I love the expression "being fancied", as it's a UKism that never really crossed over to North America) happens after a few too many dry spells. It's pretty normal for me to go for a year between relationships (without so much as a makeout session in the interim), and it's been pointed out to me that I can project loneliness during that time, and it's only when I completely shut my radar off that I attract anyone. (I guess the indifference / imperviousness comes off as confidence.)
But getting to that "fuck it, I'm just not interested in anybody" stage is a painful & slightly self-pitying process.

― Tantrum The Tantrum (Tantrum The Cat), Saturday, 9 April 2005 14:56 (twenty years ago)

not being interested in anyone is more alarming than noone being interested in you, i think

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 9 April 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

i can handle being rejected, but not having anyone to pine over is really boring

except when you need to get work done, then it's convenient

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 9 April 2005 15:04 (twenty years ago)

not being interested in anyone is more alarming than noone being interested in you, i think

What I mean is, I have to slip into a state of consciousness wherein I don't appear to be overly interested in shagging/snogging/dating anyone, and that is when things start to happen for me. It sounds more premeditated than it really is, but it's more a case of subconsciously saying "I just went on a string of go-nowhere dates and to a bunch of flirty-but-pointless get-togethers, so I'm just gonna give up on trying to meet women for a while". I don't even realize I'm doing it until I've done it.

― Tantrum (Tantrum The Cat), Saturday, 9 April 2005 15:13 (twenty years ago)

i don't even know anymore.

― hstencil (hstencil), Sunday, 10 April 2005 05:38 (twenty years ago)

we are all going to have loads and loads of sex

No offense intended, but how am I supposed to believe this when the men I find attractive don't seem physically capable of seeing me? I can smile invitingly at candidates, but if they don't pick up on my intended-to-be-inviting smile, seriously, what can I do?

― j.lu (j.lu), Sunday, 10 April 2005 06:08 (twenty years ago)

club them over the head

― Ed (dali), Sunday, 10 April 2005 06:12 (twenty years ago)

like the pope for starters

Not the best example--the pope had a girlfriend in his preclerical days.

― j.lu (j.lu), Sunday, 10 April 2005 06:13 (twenty years ago)

Did they have sex, though? I mean, they were only teenagers at the time.

― caitlin (caitlin), Sunday, 10 April 2005 06:18 (twenty years ago)

Ed, no offense but what are you doing up at this hour?

― j.lu (j.lu), Sunday, 10 April 2005 06:21 (twenty years ago)

you mean what is he doing getting up so early?

once was a time when ed would be up every morning at 6.30 dressed in a sarong flicking between sky news and bbc news 24, when all about were fast asleep

― ambrose (ambrose), Sunday, 10 April 2005 13:15 (twenty years ago)

I'd always assumed he still did that!

WRT to the thread title, surely everyone who isn't in a stable relationship gets this occasionally? I had a completely unexpected bout of it this weekend that seemd to come from nowhere.

(Possibly fuelled by bumping into two people I haven't seen since school, who both were totally hot for one another back then but too terrified to actually do anything about it. Ten years later they finally got it on - this warmed my heart and profoundly depressed me in almost equal measure)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Sunday, 10 April 2005 21:04 (twenty years ago)

Matt, I did that - a girl I liked at school when I was 6 I finally kissed when I was brought along as a friend of a friend to her 18th birthday party. Bless.

― Markelby (Mark C), Sunday, 10 April 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)

I'M NEVER GONNA HAVE SEX AGAIN! NO-ONE FANCIES ME!

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Sunday, 10 April 2005 23:00 (twenty years ago)

I had one of these kinds of conversations yesterday, with a bunch of interesting sexy women who were like "Even when I'm in a relationship I still think I'm UGLY and FAT and HORRIBLE!" Only one person said "um...I've honestly never worried about being ugly or fat or horrible," and it's not because she's a model or something, it's because it's just never made her list of important-things-in-life. On the one hand, it's good that there's that one person, because it's sad that everyone else feels that way. On the other hand, it's comforting that everybody seems to feel that way, because then I can't tell myself it's just me. And I think that extends to this thread - we're all less weird because everyone else is screwed up in the same way.

― Maria (Maria), Sunday, 10 April 2005 23:25 (twenty years ago)

I'M NEVER GONNA HAVE SEX AGAIN! NO-ONE FANCIES ME! aren't you eighteen or something?

― Remy (x Jeremy), Sunday, 10 April 2005 23:48 (twenty years ago)

Of course, but you honestly thought I meant that?

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Sunday, 10 April 2005 23:53 (twenty years ago)

*lightbulb* maybe i should not give 'em my number too next time.
nah.

-- hstencil (hstenc!...), April 6th, 2005 5:49 AM.

man, there's no reason to give your number out to them unless they ask for it. i made that mistake a few times in the beginning. also, i tend to wait a couple days to call so as not to seem too eager or desperate.

― Amon (eman), Monday, 11 April 2005 00:22 (twenty years ago)

oh i never call right away.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 11 April 2005 00:38 (twenty years ago)

(It's true. He doesn't.)

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Monday, 11 April 2005 02:45 (twenty years ago)

oh you big joker, you never gave me your number.

― hstencil (hstencil), Monday, 11 April 2005 06:29 (twenty years ago)

The Office Gossip has just emailed me: "have you heard ______ is seeing someone?"

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:19 (twenty years ago)

THE MYSTERY IS REVEALED

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:20 (twenty years ago)

so ______ could have just said 'thanks for the offer, but i'm seeing someone'? manners!

― gem (trisk), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:25 (twenty years ago)

Again, pretty bad form.

I need to start asking people on dates again - I'm bored now.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:27 (twenty years ago)

ask me on a date! i haven't asked on a date for ages

― gem (trisk), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:29 (twenty years ago)

*been

― gem (trisk), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:29 (twenty years ago)

the whole other side of the world thing could be a barrier of course

― gem (trisk), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:29 (twenty years ago)

Bad form indeed! He had the easiest get-out-of-date-free-card in the world and he didn't use it? Twunt.

This weekend I was suddenly filled with wellbeing and happiness and realising how much I like my friends and just feeling content and non-stressed by not being In A Relationship. (This might have been fuelled by randomly running into Hilton Betegeuse at the weekend. Once upon a time this would have been awkward as fuck, but I burst out laughing, and gave him a hug.)

I guess when I am coupled, I give the appearance of being happier because I have one thing to focus all of my worrying on. Now I realised that I was free to enjoy myself, and didn't actually think about boys at all, all day long. And it was such a wonderful sense of freedom!

That said, this means I will now fall passionately in unrequited love starting... oh, five minutes from now. Sigh.

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:31 (twenty years ago)

If I can't get from here to London for a date with Kate, my chances of meeting up with you for a foreign film and an Indian might be slight. But rest assured, if I'm ever within 500 miles of you, I'll be sure to look you up!

xpost

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:33 (twenty years ago)

It *is* pretty bad form. On the other hand, the Office Gossip is well known for exaggerating when it comes to people going out with people - we could be talking about the traditional British "have snogged in a club a couple of times, but nothing else" kind of "going out with". I am trying to find out more.

Who am I kidding, the whole thing isn't a great way to behave.

Update: the Office Gossip has apparently. just emailed _____ saying that I am, quote, heartbroken. Thanks a bundle. it never rains but it pours.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:34 (twenty years ago)

haha thanks johnney

xpost - i like that feeling, when you suddenly realise that you really quite enjoy being single. make the most of it kate!

― gem (trisk), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:34 (twenty years ago)

Stay away from the Office Gossip! This is evil!

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:35 (twenty years ago)

god caitlin you need cooler workmates

― gem (trisk), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:35 (twenty years ago)

C/D - "My mate fancies you"

xpost:
DOn't start on an unrequited love tip Kate, just randomly fancy people. It's far easier, and you're less likely to bump that way.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:35 (twenty years ago)

a cooler me would be useful too

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:37 (twenty years ago)

the problem with using my powers for evil is:

a) i can see that the Office Gossip is being a lying bitch, and completely misrepresenting me to ______.
b) but i can't *tell* anyone that I know this.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:47 (twenty years ago)

don't read any more emails caitlin! ignorance is bliss

― gem (trisk), Monday, 11 April 2005 10:48 (twenty years ago)

I know I *should* just drop it all, but I really wish I could tell _____ what a bitch the O. G. is being behind our backs.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 11 April 2005 11:29 (twenty years ago)

so the O.G knows that you emailed ______ originally?

Re the thread heading, I'm feeling a lot like this today for some unexplained reason. I just want to go home and read my book.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 11 April 2005 11:36 (twenty years ago)

Caitlin - get a new job and grass up the OG after leaving.

Is the OG likely to grass you up if you confront her? Is she techno-literate, or if you say 'you accidentally BCCed it me' likely to be met with bemusement and acceptance?

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 11 April 2005 11:56 (twenty years ago)

This thread is beginning to remind me of an episode of 'Peep Show'.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 11 April 2005 12:02 (twenty years ago)

so the O.G knows that you emailed ______ originally?

Yes. ______ and the O.G are fairly good friends, and bumped into each other over the weekend. _____ told the O.G about my email then.

The O.G is not techno-literate at all. She is paranoid already that we - or rather, her manager - can read her email, but without knowing anything about it - for example, she refuses to tell me her email password because she thinks I'd need to know it. It does say in everyone's contract that their email may be subject to monitoring. Even so, if I read her mail and she found out I don't think I'd get away with it: she just managed to get two of her co-workers suspended for a week for doing something rather more trivial.

Anyway, it's done now. I've emailed _____ and put my side of the story across, without saying how much I know. I was fairly blunt about what I said, too.

(xpost - like I said upthread, I *really* should have tried to learn something from watching that)

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 11 April 2005 12:04 (twenty years ago)

Do you work in the public sector Caitlin? The ambience is very redolent of my time at Rochdale Council.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 11 April 2005 12:08 (twenty years ago)

I had the unfortunate realisation recently that my (second to last) ex is EXACTLY LIKE Mark in Peep Show. He's a fan of the programme but I have no idea if he has spotted the disturbing resemblance; probably not (in fact I hope not).

― Archel (Archel), Monday, 11 April 2005 12:12 (twenty years ago)

the mayor of rochdale is still very hurt that you ignored his emails dave b

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 11 April 2005 12:14 (twenty years ago)

Sadly, no - if I did, I might have a pension

xpost: is Mark the one, who basically, behaved like I am right now? I can never remember their names.

Archel: did you get my email?

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 11 April 2005 12:18 (twenty years ago)

mark - HAx1000000000

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 11 April 2005 12:22 (twenty years ago)

No, the Mayor was the OG, not the crusher.

― Dave B (daveb), Monday, 11 April 2005 12:29 (twenty years ago)

No I didn't caitlin, well not yet. Did you send it to slightlyfoxed... ? I will check it now.

― Archel (Archel), Monday, 11 April 2005 13:13 (twenty years ago)

I did - it was through the ILX webmail function though.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 11 April 2005 13:21 (twenty years ago)

Got it and just sent reply.

And um, yes Mark is the one who's behaviour is most like yours in the current situation. But he is clearly far more mad than you are ;)

― Archel (Archel), Monday, 11 April 2005 13:27 (twenty years ago)

I am never going to have sex or be in a relationship or be randomly fancied again.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Monday, 11 April 2005 13:29 (twenty years ago)

Where did you get that idea from?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 11 April 2005 13:31 (twenty years ago)

Bad experience over the weekend. BAH!

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Monday, 11 April 2005 13:33 (twenty years ago)

hi mandee!

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Monday, 11 April 2005 13:34 (twenty years ago)

you have my empathy

― Ste (Fuzzy), Monday, 11 April 2005 13:38 (twenty years ago)

hi!!

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Monday, 11 April 2005 13:42 (twenty years ago)

And um, yes Mark is the one who's behaviour is most like yours in the current situation. But he is clearly far more mad than you are ;)

Well, I haven't started carving _____'s name into my arm yet, or anything quite that mad.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 11 April 2005 13:53 (twenty years ago)

So, have any of you ever had the opposite of the thread question? ie: You realise there is absolutely no one you want to shag, no one you fancy, at all?

god yes! trayce. it's the worst feeling when there's no-one you fancy!!! I think my whole life is based around fancying people and when suddenly there's noone fanciable (like, single people), then life just goes holyshitwtfdoidonow?!?!?!

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 11 April 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

I've decided: I'm never, ever going to be able to have another relationship of any kind ever again. Nobody ever is attracted to me, and nobody ever will be. It's getting to the point where I'm wondering if there really is any point bothering to stay alive. Relationships with other people are, frankly, the main reason why we are who we are. You have no personality other than what other people see in you. As I'm never going to have any relationships again, I may as well be dead.

― caitlin (caitlin), Monday, 11 April 2005 20:32 (twenty years ago)

What about the relationships you have with family and friends? Even if you do believe that we have no personality other than in relation to others, you can't possibly claim that there are NO relationships in your life. Whatever issues you might have with your parents, they love you. However far away you are geographically from friends, they do exist. Unfavourable circumstances for a social life can CHANGE. I think you need to recognise that however fatalistic your MOOD might be, your mood does NOT reflect what is actually going to happen in the future.

OK, there are people who go through life without forming lasting romantic relationships. Some do it by choice, some don't, some are happy, some aren't. But their lives are not worthless. Defining yourself by other people will ALWAYS make you miserable in the end, because you're not in control of them and you can't make them love you. What you CAN be in control of is yourself, and loving yourself.

You won't always feel like this.

And feel free to email for more cheesy, obvious advice...

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 09:46 (twenty years ago)

I wonder how people felt about this sort of thing hundred of years ago? And in remote locations where the amount of people 'available' was distinctly limited...I'm wondering about the nature/nurture ratio with regards to the value of relationships in our culture. The idea of how our lives are 'worthless' without other people is intriguing.

One fantastic yet terrible thing about the internet is how it's made people much more aware of the possibilities out there. Some people still can't meet people in their local area, but LDRs prove untenable all too often, which is a frustration we've imposed on ourselves more with technological advances perhaps.

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 10:00 (twenty years ago)

'frustration'...'technological advances'....it reads like i am hankering for Robot Whores again. oh dear...

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 10:01 (twenty years ago)

DOn't feel bad caitlin, I'm in the same boat. It comes down to the Marxist theory of not wanting to be a member of any club that would have him as a member. It wouldn't fancy anyone who has standards low enough to fancy me! I think that's what it boils down to. I wouldn't stress though - it's only a phase.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 10:13 (twenty years ago)

I've resigned myself to the fact that, for numerous, well-documented and self-engendered reasons, I'm never going to have another relationship in my life. I still think, however, that the solitary life is preferable to no life.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 10:22 (twenty years ago)

just go to a rave disco and take advantage of people high on drugs. and suddenly everyone's fanciable.

(i have not tried this theory out personally but it might work)

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 10:45 (twenty years ago)

It doesn't.

― RickyT (RickyT), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 10:53 (twenty years ago)

sorry ricky

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 10:55 (twenty years ago)

Archel: I will try to email you when I get home

(I haven't actually tried sending email out from my new computer yet, so I'm not 100% sure if it works)

I'm sure that this *isn't* only a phase. It doesn't matter what "level" people are at - *nobody* fancies me. And they never will. Being 27 and only ever having snogged 2 people is not a good omen for the future.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 10:55 (twenty years ago)

well it's more common than you'd think

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:07 (twenty years ago)

I think more should probably be done to promote 'dating websites' as a logical and socially acceptable method. there's still a certain reputation about them which holds people back i think.

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:09 (twenty years ago)

I still think, however, that the solitary life is preferable to no life

Fucking extremely OtM!

― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:20 (twenty years ago)

I'm not convinced.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:30 (twenty years ago)

Well you'd certainly piss me off if you killed yourself.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:36 (twenty years ago)

snogging is overrated.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:36 (twenty years ago)

xpost - don't be so dramatic. that guy is probably a total douchebag, and you lucked out from having to deal with him.

*nobody* fancies me.

a) you don't actually know this, you just think this
b) by constantly thinking it, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy

― Amon (eman), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:36 (twenty years ago)

er xxpost thx to fuckin ken c!!

― Amon (eman), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:37 (twenty years ago)

I don't believe you, Marcello. I don't think you'd even notice if I killed myself, if I didn't post to ILX to tell you beforehand.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:37 (twenty years ago)

You won't do it. People who kill themselves don't usually talk about doing so. Look at me, I've been having suicidal ideations on these bloody boards for three-and-a-half years and I'm still here!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:39 (twenty years ago)

solitary life is kind of neat sometimes, you get to go ten pin bowling all day (if you can find a place that does unlimited bowling deals). and pro-evolution soccer all night.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:39 (twenty years ago)

Whether I do it or not doesn't alter the fact that you wouldn't notice if I *did*.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:41 (twenty years ago)

Probably not. No one would notice if I did it, either. If I wanted to I could just get on the Oxford Tube right now, walk to a quiet bit of Port Meadow and finish it all off, and nobody would be able to stop me. Except myself. Because too many people would be hurt/pissed off if I did it. Even (especially) if one person would be hurt/pissed off, that is enough in my mind to dissuade me.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:45 (twenty years ago)

Caitlin, I'm sorry that my ILX usage is going to be severely curtailed for a while so I can't chat with you online, but PLEASE email me. You're one of my favourite posters, and even though I've never met you, my emotional, social and intellectual life on ILX would be EXTREMELY poorer without you. Please keep in touch, on or off board.

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:48 (twenty years ago)

My parents are the only people who would be affected, long-term, if I did kill myself; and that really wouldn't dissuade me, because the person they love isn't me at all, it's their image of what they wanted me to be.

Anyone else who heard about it would have got over it in a couple of days or so - maybe a week at the most. Most people - just about all the people I think of as friends - wouldn't be told (certainly not by my parents or anyone i work with), wouldn't find out until a few months had passed (if ever), and probably wouldn't care by the time they did.

Kate: I'll try to email you later, too.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:49 (twenty years ago)

OK, Caitlin, do you want to know exactly why I'm pissed off by you even thinking this, and it's not just because it's what and how I think most of the time?

It's because four summers ago I watched someone desperately struggling and fighting to hold on to her life without success. Someone who had everything to live for, her whole life in front of her. Someone with whom I had the only real relationship of my entire life. So I take an exceptionally dim view of people who would just throw it away, whether by stupid accident or by design.

Look in the archives and read the reactions to Nick's death a couple of months back - see how far the repercussions of such a stupid act echo, and how many people that man touched (myself included) without even realising it.

And do you think you wouldn't be irreversibly, incurably hurting your parents and friends - remember for Christ's sake you've got FRIENDS, which is more than can be said for some of us - by doing something as rash as this?

However, as I've already said, you won't do it.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 11:56 (twenty years ago)

Any 27 year old woman who doesn't look like the Elephant Man and has the correct number of arms, legs, breasts etc. can get laid any time they want if they put their mind to it, even in an uptight city like London. Just relax.

― the voice of reason, Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:20 (twenty years ago)

"getting laid" != "having a relationship"

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:28 (twenty years ago)

can "b" happen without the possibility of "a"?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:32 (twenty years ago)

Well, the thread title does mention having sex, and I was simply pointing out that with the right attitude, a young woman can always get sex - which may well lead to a relationship, and even if it doesn't, sometimes a good shag does the ego no end of good.

― the voice of reason, Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:35 (twenty years ago)

As I'm dealing with a close family member who may have suicidal intentions right now (something I've deliberately kept off ILE until now but hell) I don't feel emotionally able to 'talk you down' as well caitlin. (My advice on living is still available, but not my persuasion to live.) All I can say is: Marcello OTM.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:35 (twenty years ago)

snogging is overrated.

This is the first lie of the devil.

― Curious George (1/6 Scale Model) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:46 (twenty years ago)

Archel, I'm sorry; I don't mean to say anything which will make your own life any worse. And I'm not asking you - or anyone - to talk me down.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:07 (twenty years ago)

This is the first lie of the devil.

oh come on. it is one of the most overrated things - i'm not saying it's not GOOD - but honestly sometimes you can make it such a big deal when it's just something nice and fun to do.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:12 (twenty years ago)

That's cool caitlin, I just don't want you to think I don't care.

― Archel (Archel), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:16 (twenty years ago)

*to the tune of the chorus Kitchens of Distinction's "4 Men"* "NO-ONE WANTS MEEEEEEEE-AYAYAY! AND I'M LONELY-AYAY!"

Not a diss to anyone on here nor to KoD of course because I love them, but I'm just keeping amused. Sometimes I sing that aloud while listening to it.

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:27 (twenty years ago)

I forgot to mention that "that's the first lie of the devil" is one of my personal piss-takes.

― Curious George (1/6 Scale Model) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:36 (twenty years ago)

Ken C would make a good Satan

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

But what's the second lie?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

The Killers have saved music

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:42 (twenty years ago)

a) I'll pull out.
b) Check's in the mail.
c) I'll miss you.
d) I don't care what you think.

(xpost)

― Curious George (1/6 Scale Model) (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

For the lady who's wondering what's the point of living: well, you shouldn't kill yourself, but I totally hear what you're saying. The good life involves waking up Saturday morning next to your loved one, going out for some breakfast all loose from having had a fun time Friday night capped with some excellent sex before sleep, and then sort of lounging around into the afternoon, maybe checking out some shops, maybe getting some coffee, maybe renting/going to a movie, all while figuring out/anticipating the fun times to be had that night, preferably with other sexually-fulfilled, fun, loose friends. It's tough to get by in this image-saturated world without experiencing the above at least once a month. Unfortunately it shows if that's not part of your life, and the people you'd probably want to make part of your life, look for evidence of those experiences in prospective lovers. But anyways, don't do yourslef in. That guy way upthread, Douglas, knows what he's talking about. The disposition he describes leads to blissy Saturdays.

― gus levy, Tuesday, 12 April 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

Unfortunately it shows if that's not part of your life, and the people you'd probably want to make part of your life, look for evidence of those experiences in prospective lovers.

You mean you think you can tell who is sexually fulfilled and who isn't?

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)

The Killers have saved music

I do believe you are correct, sir.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

"getting laid" != "having a relationship"

Very true. But if it's been a while, getting laid often makes it easier to think more clearly about this stuff, as long as it's a reasonably good experience. It's hard to work yourself into the self-perpetuating cycle of "no one will ever be interested in me in any capacity again" if you've gotten some action a couple of days ago.

― Douglas (Douglas), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 18:41 (twenty years ago)

as long as it's a reasonably good experience

that's a big caveat

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

I've been thinking: I must be missing the part of my brain that lets me interact normally with people. I just *don't understand* how people are supposed to interact, how people are supposed to respond to each other. I've never been able to work it out. If anyone gets past my looks, they end up saying that I'm "creepy" and running away, because I just don't know how to react to them.

It's not just fancying, it's normal relationships too. It's not just in real life; people seem to do the same thing online. I mean, I've posted my AIM username on the AIM thread more than once, and I think it's probably in my user profile too; I don't think anyone from ILX has ever messaged me on it apart from Ned, though.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

I'm not bothered about being fancied, but I think a lot about being wanted and being lonely (from not being wanted obv.).

― Plus-Tech Whiz Kid (Disco) (Barima), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 18:48 (twenty years ago)

I don't think anyone from ILX has ever messaged me on it apart from Ned, though.

Join the club.

Caitlin, you are a clever and funny person who makes this board a better place, like so many others do. Though you may not see it if you are fixating on it (maybe this thread isn't helping?) here is more to life than sexual and/or romantic relationships, and people do like you.

Do you have anyone to talk to if you are feeling so low?

Also, Marcello totally and utterly OTM throughout.

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 18:59 (twenty years ago)

I'm sorry, Cait.. I actually meant to add you to my list. I will do that, because I would love to have an AIM chat with you.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:03 (twenty years ago)

Thanks, Ailsa.

No, I don't have anyone I can talk to; definitely not face to face, and probably not at all.

xpost: aw, Mandee, no need to be sorry.

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:11 (twenty years ago)

Cait, you're on my cool list. It's not very long!

― Plus-Tech Whiz Kid (Disco) (Barima), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 19:13 (twenty years ago)

Also, Barima, if it makes you feel any better, I'd do you.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:12 (twenty years ago)

(people who i promised i would email tonight: i will email you tomorrow, when i work out how to get my home network's mailserver to talk to my ISP again)

― caitlin (caitlin), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

It does, thank you nicely, but part of it may be down to the coincidental playing of Sheena Easton's 'Sugar Walls' on my iTunes.

x-p

― Plus-Tech Whiz Kid (Disco) (Barima), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

"Look in the archives and read the reactions to Nick's death a couple of months back - see how far the repercussions of such a stupid act echo, and how many people that man touched (myself included) without even realising it."

look i dont mean to pry but who are we takling about here?? i hope it's not nick d@st00r?

― wtf, Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

Nick Kilroy aka Nick.k, discoverer of the Junior Boys and all-round culture enthusiast.

― Plus-Tech Whiz Kid (Disco) (Barima), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

oh. i assume nick d@st00r is well and dandy then cuz i haven't seen him posting lately, i don't think.

― but maybe i have?, Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

Nick Dastoor is immortal.

― jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (Homosexual II), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:26 (twenty years ago)

being told 'i'd do you' by someone = can't actually think of a better compliment one could receive right now (as a MANG and all that...)

― $V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:29 (twenty years ago)

(xposts) ahem well what if you've not done the amazing work nick.K did? the sad and despondent are suddenly judged by what's around them, what they've "done," who they've "touched;" i don't like this yardstick.

― g e o f f (gcannon), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

i'm never sure how to react to the "i want to but it's not the right thing to do right now" line... especially if it really isn't the right thing to do right now.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

i mean on the one hand i'm thinking "it's a good thing one of us is mature here" on the other hand i'm like "d'oh!"

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

"i want to but it's not the right thing to do right now" = "there never will be a right time"

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:48 (twenty years ago)

being told 'i'd do you' by someone = can't actually think of a better compliment one could receive right now (as a MANG and all that...)

I'm tryin' to be discreet here.

― Plus-Tech Whiz Kid (Disco) (Barima), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)

so true, sadly
xpost!

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:51 (twenty years ago)

so it doesn't usually signal to me "i'm glad one of us is mature." rather it signals "one of us isn't mature enough to say how s/he really feels."

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:54 (twenty years ago)

i don't follow...

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 20:55 (twenty years ago)

I think hstencil's saying it really means "i don't want to but don't want to tell you that", hence "i'm not mature enough to tell you what i really feel about you".

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 06:25 (twenty years ago)

bizzingo.

(you understand me, wanna go on a date?)

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 06:27 (twenty years ago)

If only you weren't on the other side of the ocean!

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 06:32 (twenty years ago)

bizzingo. : (

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 06:34 (twenty years ago)

Honestly, if I were going to kill myself, it wouldn't be over some dumb stupid boy/girl/crush/never going to have a relationship again. I've got friends, I've got *good* friends, and that is far more emotionally fulfilling than relationships anyway.

If I were going to kill myself, it would be over being sacked from my last chance for rejoining the middle classes job, and the realisation that I'll never have a job or be employed or even be able to pay my rent ever again. :-(

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 07:58 (twenty years ago)

Kate, my last 'downtime's between jobs lasted 3 months and 6 months. Now is good. Never say never.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:02 (twenty years ago)

What is it with all the suicide talk? Being dead is rubbish.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:06 (twenty years ago)

Good friends *are* more emotionally fulfilling than relationships - the other side of the problem (*my* problem, I mean) is that I don't have any of those at the moment. The people who *were* my closest friends, I've not seen (and been barely in touch with) for almost a year. Other people who I consider close friends, I see maybe once every six months.

My last inter-job downtime was about 9 months, I think; I didn't get anywhere until I moved to an area with a less competitive job market (for IT, at least).

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:06 (twenty years ago)

Where is this place with a less competative IT jobs market? I might just move there and be your going-down-the-pub-for-drunken-heart-to-hearts buddy.

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:15 (twenty years ago)

Northern Lincolnshire. One of the biggest industrial areas in the country (yes, really), but with a shortage of skilled professionals. Because it's a shit place to live.

(I wouldn't recommend moving here unless you're really desperate)

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:18 (twenty years ago)

Why you don't you see or stay in touch with these friends often/any more, caitlin?

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:18 (twenty years ago)

I don't actually feel suicidal. For a change. But I do have recurrant thoughts of "What on earth was I put on this earth *FOR*, then?"

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:36 (twenty years ago)

I don't see them because they all live at least 150 miles away.

I don't stay in touch because they rarely get in touch with me; and besides, I'm not sure what I'd say to them anyway.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 08:47 (twenty years ago)

The phrase 'vicious circle' springs to mind, I'm afraid...

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:19 (twenty years ago)

Mmm, I know. I know I'm crap at keeping in touch with people myself. I feel, though, that there's no point emailing people just to say "how are you - nothing has changed here"; and there's little point emailing to say "everything's terrible!" because, hey, they have their own problems too; they're not going to want to listen to mine.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:23 (twenty years ago)

When all your close friends around you fancy each other, but you don't get a look in on any of it.

(to answer the thread)

― Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:24 (twenty years ago)

(which is probly one of many answers but relates to me at the moment)

― Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:25 (twenty years ago)

Caitlin, the thing that I've found it helpful to do in that situation is either force yourself to be more positive in email i.e. write "I'm still down, but hey, why don't you tell me something positive that's going on in your life, that will cheer us both us" or else when I plan to spend time with someone, I make sure that we get together for an activity - going to see a movie, going for a walk, going to an art gallery - so that way we have something to talk about that will lift us out of our problems, rather than just sitting around either saying nothing awkwardly or else drinking and getting mired deeper and deeper into being depressed.

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:26 (twenty years ago)

That's not how friendship works though c. I think there's EVERY point in regularly saying hi over email or phone. If nothing else it reminds people that you're there, and gives them the warm feeling that someone has thought of them, even if it's just in passing. And equally, this will come back to you.

xpost

― Archel (Archel), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:27 (twenty years ago)

Well, I can usually cope with the second part; as I said, I only see friends about once or twice per year face-to-face, and they all live in much nicer places than I do. So, when I'm visiting them, there usually *is* something else that I want to do at the same time.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:29 (twenty years ago)

Well, it comes down to how to make friends in a new place, then. It's important to have a variety of friends. Try to find activity pals and the like - my way of doing this is to go on random walking tours, I'm trying to find out about historical associations and walk groups in Lambeth, so I can meet more people in South London with similar interests to me. Even if conversation is quite superficial (Ooh, look at that lovely church, is that 18th Century?) at least it's a start.

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:33 (twenty years ago)

Archel: I feel awkward sending those typse of emails, because it feels too much like a fishing expedition: i'm not fishing for compliments, but fishing for a relationship.

Kate: one of the things I don't like about this area is that it feels as if there isn't anyone in the area with the same interests as me, and no way to meet the handful of people who might be out there.

(although I did once meet a record-store counter boy who struck up a conversation with me about Stereolab)

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:35 (twenty years ago)

How do you know there's not half a dozen other people in your town, thinking exactly the same thing, and no way to contact each other? Check your local library, your local record shop, look for notices pinned for boards - or if you're feeling really bold, pin your own notice to a board somewhere.

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:37 (twenty years ago)

BEcause it's Grimsby - anyone with any sense moves away as soon as they're able.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:39 (twenty years ago)

Hey, but it's also full of Goths!

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:40 (twenty years ago)

And I repeat the advice given earlier - join a band.

― Johnney B (Johnney B), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:41 (twenty years ago)

Being in a band saved my life repeatedly - until I got too old to do it.

― Adherents of the Repeated Kate (kate), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:42 (twenty years ago)

Caitlin, I was brought up in N. Lincs.(B4rton-on-Humber). It sounds like it hasn't changed much! No-one was interested in anything apart from CB Radio and fighting when I was at school. The geography of the place still sort of depresses me when I go back there - driving along the M180 *feels* like going to ends of the earth thru a vast wastland.

Sorry, I'm not making you feel any better. I'll shut up.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:44 (twenty years ago)

you're not too old Kate!

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:45 (twenty years ago)

xpost:

Aw Kate, you're never too old to join a band. If you did, I'd buy its records!*

I don't think I could myself. I can't sing very well, and can play the clarinet (reasonably) and piano (badly). I'm *very* bad at improvising stuff, or working out chords, or playing without any music in front of me (it's that damned classical music education). Not really band material.

* assuming I could ifnd them in the shops. I *have* bought every Lollies record I've ever spotted on sale, though.

Dr C: haha! there was a bunch of CB geeks at our school when I was a teenager. I think some of them graduated to pirate radio eventually.

At least they are digging up the A180 at the moment to get rid of the awful concrete surface.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:46 (twenty years ago)

So they were still into CB in the late 80's/early 90's? Jesus! (I'm guessing that you were at school in the late 80's/early 90s? ) Every trend and *new thing* used to come to B4rton about 5 years after the whole country had finished with it. I always think the Smiths line 'every household appliance was like a new science in my town' sums it up. I don't think you could buy any form of pasta in B4rton until 1997.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:54 (twenty years ago)

Yes, we still get trends five years later than everyone else. The CB fans I knew got into it around '95.

I always assume it's because noone's ever passing through the area - it's always been a backwater, because it's not on the way to anywhere.

I remember when my mother discovered pasta (other than the tinned-in-tomato-sauce kind) - it would have been in about '94. In about 2003, I managed to amaze her with the existance of pesto - she'd never seen it before.

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 09:58 (twenty years ago)

There is actually a Pasta factory on the outskirts of B4rton now that exports to Italy! It's next to a bog roll factory.

When I was at school there was a bicycle factory. Then the workers burned it down.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 10:21 (twenty years ago)

The pasta factory burned down last week!

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 10:22 (twenty years ago)

From the sounds of it, won't be the first time Pasta was burnt in Barton.

― Dave B (daveb), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 10:40 (twenty years ago)

Caitlin, you've moved to GRIMSBY?!?!?!?!

I really should read your blog a little more often.

― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 10:57 (twenty years ago)

Ten months ago, Mike

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 10:58 (twenty years ago)

(and: I really should update my blog a little more often)

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 11:00 (twenty years ago)

link?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 11:02 (twenty years ago)

I thought I'd plugged it enough here over the years

http://www.joannou.net/topofthestairs/

― caitlin (caitlin), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 11:04 (twenty years ago)

eight months pass...

Argh, what a thread to come up in the randomiser. So much changes, and so little...

― Kate Classic (kate), Friday, 16 December 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

― jim p. irrelevant (electricsound), Saturday, 17 December 2005 01:00 (twenty years ago)

What about the idea that I'm so old and ugly, what on earth could she see in me, surely it was all a mistake? Where does that come from?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Sunday, 18 December 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

Oh, it happens about the 100th time a girl rejects you and you still never had a girlfriend.

PS I'm so fucking drunk this is why I am using proper grammar and giving you THE LIVEJOURNAL TRUTH~!

― ESTEBAN BUTTEZ~!!, Sunday, 18 December 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

haha tuomas that comes from when you are proven right when the other person *does* realize it's a mistake! and that leads to the idea in the thread title, even though you keep telling yourself "no, it's not something wrong with you...it's him...someone else will appreciate you!" yeah, right.

(i'm feeling just a little sorry for myself this week....)

― Maria (Maria), Sunday, 18 December 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

wow, i was much sadder last april

i feel a bit more, well, the tiniest bit more optimistic about it now

― POOP BITCH (Mandee), Sunday, 18 December 2005 16:48 (twenty years ago)

this thread is a depressing 10 mins i am never getting back

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 18 December 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)

and you're suprised... ?

― lauren (laurenp), Sunday, 18 December 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

only that i didnt post to it originally

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:10 (twenty years ago)

also i am totally confused as to why mandee views her opinions last april as "depressing." meeting someone, becoming friends with them, and falling in love with them is pretty much how its worked for me every time, and it's hardly a bad thing. no random hook-up or flirtation in a bar has ever led to longterm relationship success in my experience. but, you know, to each his own.

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Sunday, 18 December 2005 17:12 (twenty years ago)

Haha, this is where Mandee and I first flirted. That's not depressing.

My view on this has become more optimistic this year because even the scattered, ultimately meaningless dates I've been on since March have indicated that there are women in this city/on this planet who do find me attractive and are good people to be around (last part's mandatory for me). Whether they've all been attractive themselves hasn't all that much to do with the context I'm invoking (though they have been cute for the most part), which is that it's way better than being fancied by about one person per year as before.

― Who the hell do you THINK I am? I'm the goddamn Batman! (Barima), Sunday, 18 December 2005 18:28 (twenty years ago)

i dont think i was necessarily sad on this thread, i just know i was sad, in general. i remember, you know.

― POOP BITCH (Mandee), Sunday, 18 December 2005 18:39 (twenty years ago)

Sadness is ultimately transient.

― Who the hell do you THINK I am? I'm the goddamn Batman! (Barima), Sunday, 18 December 2005 18:46 (twenty years ago)

so is happiness.. so is everything..

― nein Socken (nein Socken), Sunday, 18 December 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)

Experience.

― Mitya (mitya), Sunday, 18 December 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

I don't worry about any of the three things this thread says, but I do worry that I will not meet many (or any?) truly close friends. It seems that as people get older they do not have intimate, close relationships with anyone other than their boyfriend or girlfriend. I need friends like that, and they are hard to find. And one or other of you having a partner makes it so difficult to maintain the friendship in the same way.

Perhaps this is for another thread.

― Cathy (Cathy), Sunday, 18 December 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

I should've been clearer, what I meant is that even if it's rather obvious that someone fancies you (even if it's nothing serious), you begin to think, what does such a young, radiant person see in a lazy past-his-prime geezer like me? Is feeling like this one of the signs that you're not that young anymore?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 19 December 2005 05:37 (twenty years ago)

Oh for gods sake, Tuomas.

::knocks him about the head with his own sexy half nekkid pictures::

There is nothing like going to a party round the flat of your recently coupled-up cohabitating ex, and seeing him esconsed in cosy domesticity and realising that you can count the number of single people at the party on the fingers of one hand to make you feel like utter and complete shite.

So I went home and read old pr0n until I felt better, and then on this train this morning, I suddenly thought "sod this whole dating thing, sod the load of it. I just need to lose the weight again, get my band playing gigs again, and soon enough I'll be drinking champagne off the stomachs of male models, which - sod this relationship, boyfriend, baby stuff - is all I've ever really wanted out of life!"

And then I felt much better.

― Kate Classic (kate), Monday, 19 December 2005 13:17 (twenty years ago)

I don't get it

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 19 December 2005 13:23 (twenty years ago)

even if it's rather obvious that someone fancies you (even if it's nothing serious), you begin to think, what does such a young, radiant person see in a lazy past-his-prime geezer like me?

i've read (well, "read") self-improvement literature that talks about people who've made some major change in their life outgrowing/leaving behind the partner they were with before. it basically says "you were only with that person because you had shit self-esteem, and what the hell was wrong with your partner if the best they could do was your old sadsack self?"

sigh. self-improvement literature can be very sanctimonious.

― bob abernethy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 19 December 2005 13:24 (twenty years ago)

What's to get?

People be lonely.

x-post

― Kate Classic (kate), Monday, 19 December 2005 13:25 (twenty years ago)

you're only going to break up with them anyway

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 19 December 2005 13:27 (twenty years ago)

as long as you continue to fancy people yourself it seems pretty alien to subscribe to the sentiment at the top of the page

― cozen (Cozen), Monday, 19 December 2005 13:30 (twenty years ago)

I don't get it

you've turned into g-kit.

― snowkitten (g-kit), Monday, 19 December 2005 13:32 (twenty years ago)

That doesn't mean anything, if they don't fancy you back. It only increases the feelings of inadequacy. I mean...

is it realistic, or just fatalist bullshit?

At what point does it *stop* being fatalistic bullshit and start being realistic? It's been over a year and a half since I was in a relationship. At what point do I get to throw in the towel and just admit "it isn't going to happen" and stop expecting it?

― Kate Classic (kate), Monday, 19 December 2005 13:33 (twenty years ago)

i hate the idea that you're supposed to "upgrade" your partners, like you can choose one out of a catalogue and have him be everything you want at that moment in your life.

i guess there is a catalogue for that... http://www.realdoll.com/

― bob abernethy (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 19 December 2005 13:34 (twenty years ago)

It's usually seeing photos of me or seeing myself on video/ film that does it. My latest things are that I throw my head around too much and I am too wide when viewed from the side. I saw some pictures of me last night, surrounded by my much better looking and photogenic friends and wanted to run off and hide.

― Anna (Anna), Monday, 19 December 2005 13:40 (twenty years ago)

i think it stops being fatalistic bullshit at the point when you're less attractive than every single person who is getting laid. looking at some who are getting some, basically it's never going to stop being fatalistic bullshit.

a year and a half since a relationship. boo-and-indeed-hoo.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 19 December 2005 13:44 (twenty years ago)

I saw some pictures of me last night, surrounded by my much better looking and photogenic friends and wanted to run off and hide.

Which reminds me: the photo of your flatmate and yourself has to be one of the best representations of attractive people on my cameraphone. Y'all know my standards are high.

Also, I've had to deal with people who some could claim are less attractive than me holding down steady relationships, sometimes with attractive people, during the same period of time where I was lucky to score a make-out session over the course of a year. Just keep working with what you have and somewhere it eventually pays off (hopefully not years later, which is just crap).

― Who the hell do you THINK I am? I'm the goddamn Batman! (Barima), Monday, 19 December 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

**There is nothing like going to a party round the flat of your recently coupled-up cohabitating ex,**

Never a great idea to do that really. Nothing good is likely to arise, whereas intense self-loathing is just a beer away.

― Dr.C, Monday, 19 December 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

No, no, we're on totally good terms - we're still good friends (weirdly) and I absolutely adore his partner, I think she's great for him. There's no weirdness on the "oh no an ex, oh no!" front at all!

It's just more like... "oh god, everyone I know is coupling up, and here's me, the sad old biddie mulling wine at the back of the kitchen". Sigh.

― Kate Classic (kate), Monday, 19 December 2005 16:05 (twenty years ago)

Thanks B, sweet of you. I think I should just stop standing next to Tom in pictures, the bastard nearly always looks good in photos.

― Anna (Anna), Monday, 19 December 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

Well, my last meaningful relationship ended over 7 years ago. I have NEVER been randomly fancied by anyone in my entire life and although having quite a few friends of the opposite sex, it has never, ever progressed beyond that.

So thosae of you moaning about being single for a year or so, my heart doth verily bleed. I feel that, apart from being very, very unattractive, I am so out of the loop regarding relationships that I would not be able to adjust to being in one, even if the chance came my way. And that seems very unlikely right now. No....impossible, I mean.

― Anonandonandonandon, Monday, 19 December 2005 16:15 (twenty years ago)

See, this is why these threads always fail. Because instead of being supportive and kind, and offering comisseration and/or help, it just descends into some reverse dick-waving competition about who's been single the longest/is the loneliest and petty remarks about "boo hoo, my heart bleeds for you..."

No wonder you're single.

― Kate Classic (kate), Monday, 19 December 2005 16:20 (twenty years ago)

WOAH

― snowkitten (g-kit), Monday, 19 December 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

I understand your point although it was not meant like that and I apologise.

― Anonandonandonandon, Monday, 19 December 2005 16:24 (twenty years ago)

Although, seeing as you have had quite a few relationships in recent years and have not been shy about sharing various intimate details of them on these boards, perhaps that should tell you that you are not an unattractive person and that it is not unreasonable to expect that you will meet someone if you are bothered enough to do so. A year being single is not that long when compared to someone who has spent most of their adult life thus far in the same state.

And thank you, but I know why I am single and have outlined the reasons for that above.

― Anonandonandonandon, Monday, 19 December 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

and i offered quite a bit of info there re: how it was fatalistic bullshit, and i am sorry if the message didn't come through that "if one year and a half without a relationship (or indeed any amount of time) isn't really the reason to think another one will never happen" or else half the world are frigging doomed to be involuntarily single forever.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

if you want someone to just say "awww i'm sorry ::hugs::" instead of actually answering with something constructive then just ask.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

i'm actually really great and there's not a single goddamn reason i should be single, so it must be because i am JUST TOO GOOD FOR EVERYONE AROUND ME

― POOP BITCH (Mandee), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:23 (twenty years ago)

OTM

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:26 (twenty years ago)

i think it's important, when people do the fatalist bullshit, for others to put it into perspective/compare/contrast with their own experience though.

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:26 (twenty years ago)

If I said that, I'd be flogged. Double standard, anyone?

x-post

― Kate Classic (kate), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:27 (twenty years ago)

If you're female and mention being lonely / single people take it as a come-on line and badger you for consideration as beau or easy sexual partner.

WAIT WAIT WAIT. Why didn't I get such reactions to my original post to this thread?

― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:30 (twenty years ago)

There's a difference between "comparing with their own experience" and "boo hoo, my heart bleeds for you".

My best friend back in NYC, she hasn't been in a relationship since about 1992, and she has recently found love and hooked up with someone. And I could not be happier for her! But she NEVER says "oh, look at me, I didn't get laid for over a decade", she says sensible things like don't worry about it, just concentrate on the things you enjoy, and eventually, hopefully you'll meet someone who shares your interests, and if you don't, well, don't worry about it. And then starts talking about her cats. ;-)

So I guess the moral of the story is, when I feel like this, I should actually go back and read her emails, instead of talking to people on ILX.

― Kate Classic (kate), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:31 (twenty years ago)

If I said that, I'd be flogged. Double standard, anyone?

that didn't even make sense. said what that would get you flogged by who?

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)

If I said so it must be because i am JUST TOO GOOD FOR EVERYONE AROUND ME then Stevem and others would kick me to a bloody pulp for being arrogant. You can't win.

― Kate Classic (kate), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:33 (twenty years ago)

she says sensible things like don't worry about it, just concentrate on the things you enjoy, and eventually, hopefully you'll meet someone who shares your interests, and if you don't, well, don't worry about it. And then starts talking about her cats. ;-)

well, it doesn't look like that particular message had got through, does it? since you're still dwelling on it.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

Also, Kate, you're the one that waded in with a "no wonder you're single" comment, which isn't really on the supportive side either...

― ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:36 (twenty years ago)

Strange choice of words.

― The Ring Leader (blueski), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:36 (twenty years ago)

My (quite deliberate) nastiness was in response to the whole "ooh my heart bleeds for you" comment. If someone's going to be nasty to me, I'll be nasty back.

I wasn't actually depressed until I got on this thread. :-(

― Kate Classic (kate), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:37 (twenty years ago)

i dont think i was being TOO arrogant in my saying that i am too good for everyone around me - especially because i dont really believe that. it's just a nice way of consoling myself.

― POOP BITCH (Mandee), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

I wasn't criticising you for saying it, Mandee. I just wish I had the confidence to believe something like that. But as you can see, I got the shit kicked out of me on the thread above for just merely saying that I thought I was *different* from other people, let alone better or worse.

― Kate Classic (kate), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:49 (twenty years ago)

'as you can see'

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 19 December 2005 17:58 (twenty years ago)

by that I mean I wouldn't have thought (at least i damn well hope not) anyone else is going to take what andonandonandon, ken, me or whoever said as 'kicking the shit out of you' or 'kicking you to a bloody pulp' as opposed to just presenting a different opinion. are these choices of words some tactical thing to instil guilt? if just someone else pointing out that they think they're worse off or someone else pointing out that it's not that bad is akin to being physically attacked now then i will worry!

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 19 December 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

i suppose that'll just come across as another 'brutal onslaught' or whatever. truly you (me or anyone) can't win.

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 19 December 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

I wouldn't have thought (at least i damn well hope not) anyone else is going to take what andonandonandon, ken, me or whoever said as 'kicking the shit out of you' or 'kicking you to a bloody pulp' as opposed to just presenting a different opinion.

OTM. My boo-hoo wasn't even directed at you personally, Kate.

― Anonandonandon, Monday, 19 December 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

This is the moment where I point out that I'm a manwhore *nudge wink*.

― Who the hell do you THINK I am? I'm the goddamn Batman! (Barima), Monday, 19 December 2005 20:25 (twenty years ago)

i dont think you have to be a female to get badgered for consideration on this thread, as i kindly offered to do barima last april

― POOP BITCH (Mandee), Monday, 19 December 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

An offer that will likely be reciprocated next time you're in London.

― Who the hell do you THINK I am? I'm the goddamn Batman! (Barima), Monday, 19 December 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

not agreeing with someone=/physical violence.

also ilx is not your livejournal.

― Laura H. (laurah), Monday, 19 December 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

I pointed out to a friend today that it's now over two years since I last had sex, or was in a relationship. She seemed surprised.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:14 (twenty years ago)

laura i applaud your efforts, but ilx mutated into livejournal a long time ago.

― u saved me (dubplatestyle), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

Got any new stories, Jess?

― Who the hell do you THINK I am? I'm the goddamn Batman! (Barima), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:21 (twenty years ago)

ilx became so livejournal it drove me to...livejournal.

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

ten months pass...

Whoa, what a strange chain of links. The Graham Thread led to the infamous Girl In The Library Thread which led to this one.

La la la, I was right and you were wrong... la la la.

Sorry for the pointless revive. The only thing that's really changed in the year and a half since this thread started is... errr, I guess maybe my attitude.

― Dear Cafes of London (kate), Friday, 3 November 2006 13:15 (nineteen years ago)

i dont think you have to be a female to get badgered for consideration on this thread, as i kindly offered to do barima last april
-- POOP BITCH (mandeewrigh...), December 19th, 2005 8:34 PM.
An offer that will likely be reciprocated next time you're in London.

-- Who the hell do you THINK I am? I'm the goddamn Batman! (b4rim4_...), December 19th, 2005 8:41 PM.

did this happen in the end? (i'ma baaad little boy)

― banrique (blueski), Friday, 3 November 2006 13:38 (nineteen years ago)

i just skimmed this thread, is it as awesome as it seems at first glance?

― teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Friday, 3 November 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

You are a bad banrique.

― Bhumibol Adulyadej (Lucretia My Reflection), Friday, 3 November 2006 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

me and barima never did it.

― i've dreamt of rubies! (Mandee), Friday, 3 November 2006 14:32 (nineteen years ago)

guess what song just came up as I opened this thread? tsm, 'sad and lonely'. *ironic grin*

helpful happy thing i've noticed about this song, however: the chorus has just about the most defiant, uplifting message anyone could ever receive when a) sad or b) lonely. "Does it feel like those around want you to die? Are you alive?" To which the answer is clearly "YES! Fuck the h8rs!"

re: the thread title, I don't actually, honestly feel this, but it's getting pretty ridiculous now... :-(

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Friday, 3 November 2006 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

me and barima never did it.

That was no fun. You could at least have kept us in suspense for a bit longer.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 3 November 2006 15:38 (nineteen years ago)

sorry :(

― i've dreamt of rubies! (Mandee), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:03 (nineteen years ago)

I think I may be too intimidating.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:08 (nineteen years ago)

Awwwww.

I guess I find it more comforting these days to hear tales of long-term singletons, than I do to hear tales of people who shacked up.

I get really wound up when I hear that people I consider to be really truly, horrible bad people (or even just mildly annoying people) seem to be able to find someone to love and be loved by. Maybe that's bad of me. It just doesn't seem fair.

― Dear Cafes of London (kate), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:15 (nineteen years ago)

I tend to glare at people, when really I'm a pushover. Ha, oh well.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:19 (nineteen years ago)

i'm grumpy and seem asexual

― i've dreamt of rubies! (Mandee), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:21 (nineteen years ago)

xxpost: That's not real love, you know. ;-)

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:26 (nineteen years ago)

Awwwww.
I guess I find it more comforting these days to hear tales of long-term singletons, than I do to hear tales of people who shacked up.

x-post....I am dating a gigantic cancerous rat.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:29 (nineteen years ago)

because if there is a trend in your life it's difficult to imagine that changing.

p.s -- rubies can be pretty grumpy. but it sure is charmin!

― gunther heartymeal (keckles), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:30 (nineteen years ago)

I am never going to have sex or be in a relationship or be randomly fancied again.
-- jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (mandeewrigh...), April 11th, 2005.

Where did you get that idea from?
-- Ste (ste.foste...), April 11th, 2005.

Bad experience over the weekend. BAH!
-- jill schoelen is the queen of my dreams! (mandeewrigh...), April 11th, 2005.

Whatever bad thing happened must have not been too bad as I don't remember it at all.

― i've dreamt of rubies! (Mandee), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:31 (nineteen years ago)

p.s -- rubies can be pretty grumpy. but it sure is charmin!

Thanks Kell. AT LEAST YOU LOVE ME, I THINK.

― i've dreamt of rubies! (Mandee), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:32 (nineteen years ago)

i cant think of a single reason why you should be single, gunth. EXCEPT, maybe, that you talk a LOT. but, like muh grump, its charming.

― i've dreamt of rubies! (Mandee), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:33 (nineteen years ago)

gunth. i like that.

i don't ALWAYS talk a lot, gee whiz!

― gunther heartymeal (keckles), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:34 (nineteen years ago)

Never mind me.

I am just trying to psych myself up for this date tomorrow.

And the idea that I can go on a date, and the world will not end. Or maybe enjoying the idea that someone could actually be quite keen to go on a date with me, until the inevitable disappointment of meeting, and that feeling is crushed forever.

I'm going home now.

― Dear Cafes of London (kate), Friday, 3 November 2006 18:35 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

It twinges less and less as I get older. But it still twinges occasionally.

And then I think about this thread.

― Masonic Boom, Tuesday, 26 August 2008 20:23 (seventeen years ago)

eleven months pass...

Reviving this thread because I ran into my long-term ex on the street this afternoon. The first time I'd seen him in five years. And it shocked me. Mainly with the thought that it had been five long years since anyone loved me.

It feels like some kind of weird anniversary thing now, reviving this thread to say nothing's changed.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Friday, 14 August 2009 21:01 (sixteen years ago)

Am now going through a post-break up version of this. Although it's as much to do with living in a town where anyone I might like is usually pretty/smart enough to leave at the first opportunity and all that is left is the children and old folks, the stupid and the dull.

― fruity gonzalo (a hoy hoy), Friday, 14 August 2009 21:31 (sixteen years ago)

Although it's as much to do with living in a town where anyone I might like is usually pretty/smart enough to leave at the first opportunity and all that is left is the children and old folks, the stupid and the dull.

otm. tbh it has to do with a lot of other things too but this is a good excuse to live by

― sonderangerbot, Friday, 14 August 2009 21:35 (sixteen years ago)

to sincerely try and answer the thread question -- which I've definitely found myself asking in the past -- I think part of it, a lot of it, is self-perception: viewing yourself as appealing only to a very niche audience, maybe feeling like past positive experiences were either flukes or the result of a complex equation/set of circumstances that are statistically improbable to repeat.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Friday, 14 August 2009 21:38 (sixteen years ago)

The other day I did see this girl who was incredibly pretty and well dressed etc. and thought about talking to her but then got the crushing feeling that she might just be an older looking 15 year old or something, because I genuinely don't know many people in my age range (early 20s i guess) living here, wheras there are 4000 schools. Coming back from a uni town where everyone is that age, that freaked me out a lot and I didn't talk to her.

― fruity gonzalo (a hoy hoy), Friday, 14 August 2009 21:39 (sixteen years ago)

1. looking around
2. looking in the mirror
3. reading my writing
4. reading other people's writing
5. getting in an argument
6. talking too loud
7. not talking

― youn, Friday, 14 August 2009 21:44 (sixteen years ago)

Sorry, I just saw this thread and wanted to vent.

MB: You seem to be well loved on ILX Street from what I can tell, so there's that. :) Not really addressing your needs though.

― fruity gonzalo (a hoy hoy), Friday, 14 August 2009 21:44 (sixteen years ago)

are you living where you're living out of financial necessity, or are you there by choice?

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Friday, 14 August 2009 21:48 (sixteen years ago)

still love that stence used "fancied" in this thread title

― ovum if you got 'em (gbx), Friday, 14 August 2009 21:51 (sixteen years ago)

the use of fancied made me feel awkward answering the thread, because it seemed so British ... and I am not.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Friday, 14 August 2009 21:54 (sixteen years ago)

financial necessity; hope to be out of here by the end of the year-ish.

― fruity gonzalo (a hoy hoy), Friday, 14 August 2009 22:01 (sixteen years ago)

Stence used "fancied" because he was quoting something that I said. I am British.

I don't know if this thread became a self fulfilling prophecy, or just an occasional reminder, but it just seems so unfair.

Everyone else goes on, meets someone else, moves forward. I never do. Well, not that I haven't gone on and moved forward. It's just an ugly reminder of how alone I am.

Not that being in a relationship does anything about the feeling alone bit - fuck, some of the loneliest times I have ever had were with that man I ran into yesterday. But the sense of incompleteness in a world where holidays, meals, tables in restaurants, tents in festival campsites, EVERYTHING seems to come in pairs and you are not - and you feel like you never will be again - a pair.

I suppose it's what I say about mine own crushes and random fancyings again and again - that it's some kind of weird self identification, to crush on someone. Which makes me feel even more alien and other. I suppose it really doesn't help that the last man to actually express a random fancy towards me shot himself. That really reinforces the sense of worthlessness and unloveability.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 15 August 2009 06:58 (sixteen years ago)

Roughly half of all marriages end in divorce + roughly half the remaining marriages are unhappy = there are much worse fates than singledom (not entirely pulling those statistics out of my ass, but buggered if I can remember where I read it)

Also: allowing yourself to imagine that the people around you are all invariably happier/ more fulfilled/ less lonely/ more lovable etc. is one of the most certain paths to misery. Everyone has their own private hell to contend with at some point in their lives.

― ken tynan's spanking buddy (sciolism), Saturday, 15 August 2009 09:02 (sixteen years ago)

Marriage? Who the hell is talking about marriage?

How on earth does one go from "I am lonely" and talking about never being fancied, never having sex, never even being looked at in the light of being desirable on any level, never just being naked and holding someone... how does one go from that to some oppressive institution like marriage?

It's like this weird converse of those people who said "I could stand being single for the rest of my life if I still got to have sex..."

It's wondering if I could stand being in a relationship for the rest of my life if I got to have sex, and then suddenly - no, not suddenly, it was a slow, painful death - you never get either.

There is a point it seems in one's life when sexuality dies. I am just disappointed that it happened in my life so bloody soon.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 15 August 2009 09:21 (sixteen years ago)

"self pity"

"feeling sorry for yourself"

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 15 August 2009 09:25 (sixteen years ago)

bleh, I know this thread isn't about marriage, just trying to suggest that most people's fantasies about what will make them happy in relationships (which is marriage for huge quantities of people) are erroneous

― ken tynan's spanking buddy (sciolism), Saturday, 15 August 2009 09:25 (sixteen years ago)

Please don't make generalisations about what my or "most people's" fantasies are. My deepest fantasy is simply to be *understood* and it's the thing I've encountered most rarely in my life.

ILX never makes things any better, it only makes things worse.

Because not just are you stuck with this depression and this loneliness, you have the added extra fun of people telling you that you should neither express nor even *feel* the things that you do.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 15 August 2009 09:27 (sixteen years ago)

you don't know me or my life at all, not that it matters.

anyway, I certainly wasn't trying to make you feel worse-- just less alone.

― ken tynan's spanking buddy (sciolism), Saturday, 15 August 2009 09:30 (sixteen years ago)

if you want to talk about generalizations: "Everyone else goes on, meets someone else, moves forward" is a massive one, and not any more provable than anything I said. The difference is your unprovable generalizations about others seem to be making you miserable, whereas my unprovable generalizations make my loneliness more bearable.

― ken tynan's spanking buddy (sciolism), Saturday, 15 August 2009 09:33 (sixteen years ago)

Marriage doesn't need to be oppressive either, if we're dissing on unhelpful generalizations.

― ailsa, Saturday, 15 August 2009 09:41 (sixteen years ago)

kate no one has said you that you should neither express nor even *feel* the things that you do, so you needn't jump all over sciolism just because his/her comments were not otm for you personally.

― mookieproof, Saturday, 15 August 2009 09:59 (sixteen years ago)

Yeah Kate <3 you dear but "everyone else moves on" is rubbidge. Lots of people go through that, hell I have.

― Spy in the Cab Sav (Trayce), Saturday, 15 August 2009 10:18 (sixteen years ago)

It's really easy for someone to call me out from the safety of another relationship.

Of course I'm generalisation, it's what "most people" do, trying to make sense of their world. I'm going by every single man I've had any kind of serious relationship with, and all the women I've been close enough to to be in bands with.

Maybe it's pointless looking for understanding from people who are not in the situation that I'm in. I know maybe 2, maybe 3 women who have been long-term single/celibate to the point of just giving up looking. (and I'm not talking about people who think "6 months without sex is a drought!!!" I'm talking to the point where it gets to years.) And there's a point at which, it never happens again.

Maybe it's a self-selecting group, that their mind-sets are similar to mine, and that's what leads them to this state of giving-up-ness. Maybe that's why they tell me things that make sense to me, because they tell me what I want to hear.

I cannot speak for other people. I can only speak for myself. I do not want to be married. I do not want the... suffocation that I've felt being in long term relationships.

But this sense of loneliness, this sense of isolation, this sense of the world shrinking and narrowing as I get older. This sense of growing somehow... INVISIBLE as a woman ages. This I hate, and this I do not want.

It is pointless talking on this forum, it makes things worse not better. But there's nothing I hate worse than being misunderstood. But the more I try to explain myself, the more misunderstood I get, so there is no point in speaking, there is no point in not speaking.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 15 August 2009 11:33 (sixteen years ago)

Yes, it would be worse to be trapped in a loveless marriage.

Yes, it would be worse to still be with that evasive, lying, selfish, hypocritical, demanding dick I saw on the street last night.

But it still hurts. And I don't ever know how to stop it from hurting.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 15 August 2009 11:37 (sixteen years ago)

kate i think part of it is that to get something you have to pay for it - you don't feel willing to pay the price (=suffocation) of being in a long term relationship. it might help to remember that even though you don't have the things that go along with a long-term relationship, i.e. "visibility", shared experiences with peers that have to do with long-term relationships etc, you STILL HAVE the thing which you have not seen fit to part with, i.e. the "non-suffocatedness", which you would have had to pay.

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 15 August 2009 11:41 (sixteen years ago)

i can appreciate that it hurts. but it may hurt less if you can stop wanting both a thing (non-suffocatedness) as well as what that thing may be purchased for (long-term-relationships)...?

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 15 August 2009 11:43 (sixteen years ago)

I don't know if this thread became a self fulfilling prophecy

ya you do

― Kerm, Saturday, 15 August 2009 11:48 (sixteen years ago)

The supreme fucking irony in that relationship, I *WAS* actually willing to pay the price of suffocation, in order to have it.

But the person I became when I was suffocated was not someone he wanted to be in a relationship with. It was HIM that ended it, citing his own "suffocation" - not me. Like I said, he demanded freedoms for himself he was not willing to give me. (We're not even talking sexual freedoms, we're talking about the freedom to be allowed to be alone, in order to create. He was allowed it, I wasn't. And then he would berate me for not being more creative.) I'm using his words because they are all I have. I wasn't allowed mine own.

I suppose the original topic of this thread no longer applies. This thread was originally about that pause, that feeling of being wrecked, of being destroyed, at the end of a bad breakup.

This, this feeling now, it is different. It's the feeling of those 5 years, between 35 and 40, where this woman has faded to not being sexual - or to not being SEEN as sexual.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 15 August 2009 12:26 (sixteen years ago)

There is a point at which it's like you stop existing, as a woman. You are not allowed to have your own sexuality, you're not allowed to experience desire yourself. The only desire you are allowed is that of being the object of someone else's desire.

And that ends. It has a use-by date, it has a cut-off.

It's not even a biological clock, it's just this sell-by date, beyond which, if you haven't slipped into being Motherly and Nurturing, you do not exist.

This is different from that mangling at the end of a really bad relationship. This is different from folding yourself away to prevent harm. This is different from sewing yourself into a fatsuit you can no longer get out of.

This is you, fading away, because you no longer deserve to be looked at or wanted or desired.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 15 August 2009 12:30 (sixteen years ago)

Cougars, let me show you them.

― Kerm, Saturday, 15 August 2009 12:32 (sixteen years ago)

I don't think that cut-off is universal? And I don't think it solely applies to women.

I do think that some scenes very much privilege youth over age, that the withdrawal of yr status as a sexual being relates more to the social groups you inhabit than to a global prejudice.

― James Joyce da 5'9 (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 15 August 2009 12:33 (sixteen years ago)

"One" inhabits, not "you" as you.

― James Joyce da 5'9 (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 15 August 2009 12:34 (sixteen years ago)

I suppose I spend too much time with people much younger than myself.

Because those are the only people who seem to care about - or have the time to care about the things that I care about.

But this whole attitude does just seem so prevalent in society asawhole. Or maybe it's the industry I'm working in, slowly poisoning me and getting to me. That you can't spend your life around botoxed people and 18 year olds who think they need liposuction without it fucking your head over.

I wish I hadn't seen Joe yesterday, it really was the wrong time to see him - if ever there was a right time.

I think maybe there's a part of me that would have liked to have been a cougar, but I feel like i'm too ugly, too fat, too weird, too threatening, too bizarre - I was threatening enough to boys when I was 25. At 40, I'm so terrifying they freeze and hurl spite at me through the internet.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 15 August 2009 12:39 (sixteen years ago)

You're the one trying to convince me that you're unwantable.

― Kerm, Saturday, 15 August 2009 12:41 (sixteen years ago)

Maybe society as it's presented through media/culture has a lot of that prejudice. Living in the heart of proletarian provincialism I see things different tho...there's no shortage of over 40s behaving as and being accepted as sexual beings on a Friday night here...and I would guess in every other town.

Purely from my own experience, a sense of your own middle-age is a horribly distorting lens to look at the world thru?

― James Joyce da 5'9 (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 15 August 2009 12:44 (sixteen years ago)

Had written out a post, but feeling its a bit TMI now.

Anyways, I don't think your age is as limiting as you think, especially if you're not interested in long-term relationships. But you're right, the woman age thing is a problem in our society.

I know it's no consolation, but your Crazy Beat mix was one of the highlights of my week. I find it hard to believe that with all the music fans out there, there isn't someone gunning for you Right Now. DJs/musicians have a lot of pulling power.

― The Devil's Avocado (Gukbe), Saturday, 15 August 2009 12:48 (sixteen years ago)

I don't get taken seriously/have any pulling power as a DJ coz I don't beatmatch!

(sorry, Erol forum in-joke)

I guess half the battle is trying to see myself as a sexual being any more. Which is the hardest hurdle. And this is going to get more psychologically difficult to hand in the next month as autumn takes hold and my hormones go nuts. You're right, it is easier outside London - every time I went to Northampton, I'd be shocked to find men checking me out as something exotic.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 15 August 2009 14:05 (sixteen years ago)

Maybe I am painting with broad brushes right now, because I am so depressed. I forget little things like men checking me out in Northampton. the couple of dudes on that DJ forum who do flirt with me through the medium of music.

But then I do something stupid like sign up for a dating service, knowing from experience that that sort of thing really doesn't work for me (apologies to other people it has worked for, it really has been a negative thing for me every time I've tried it.)

maybe I should get out of London, go up to one of flirty DJ dudes' gigs oop norf, what's stopping me? PH34R.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 15 August 2009 14:11 (sixteen years ago)

Sometimes its a problem of the demographic you're considering.

In gay circles, this is not an uncommon conversation:

45 year old male: My life is over - I don't think anyone wants to sleep with me...

Would-be helpful adviser: (Considers for a moment) But what about other 45 year olds?

45 year old make: Uh! Please! There's no way I'm going to start sleeping with them!

― Bob Six, Saturday, 15 August 2009 16:42 (sixteen years ago)

i'm going to assume it's still a guy saying that.

― The Devil's Avocado (Gukbe), Saturday, 15 August 2009 19:51 (sixteen years ago)

yes - sorry for the typo

― Bob Six, Saturday, 15 August 2009 19:56 (sixteen years ago)

I suppose I spend too much time with people much younger than myself.

Because those are the only people who seem to care about - or have the time to care about the things that I care about.

There's definitely something to that ... I regularly feel that my lifestyle hasn't changed much since my mid-20s, and that the last ten years of my life went by quite quickly, so occasionally I find myself at shows where the majority of people are well under 30 and I barely know any of them, and think, "Wait, what happened?" I think feeling awkward because of age difference is largely internal, or, more precisely, you notice it more than other people. In general, if people perceive you as comfortable with yourself, they are more likely to feel comfortable around you.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Saturday, 15 August 2009 22:42 (sixteen years ago)

k8 are you doing things in your personal life (ahem hem) to make you feel some connection to sexytimes? It can help, if only on a stress-relief/endorphins level, to make sure you continue to carve out & keep alive that kind of personal niche of sexual connection w/yrself. Feel free to not comment on this, or we cld take it to ILTMI.

― cosmic abbigong (Abbott), Sunday, 16 August 2009 00:35 (sixteen years ago)

Also yeah it sounds like you ran into this dude when you were already depressioed. Well, fuck him; he sounds like a big fuckface.

― cosmic abbigong (Abbott), Sunday, 16 August 2009 00:37 (sixteen years ago)

where does this idea that you'll never have sex or be in a relationship OR be randomly fancied again come from?

http://www.lightandmatter.com/html_books/5op/ch02/figs/narcissus.jpg

― （　´_ゝ˙） (Dr. Phil), Sunday, 16 August 2009 00:45 (sixteen years ago)

There is a someone out there for us all, never despair.

― mo radalj, Sunday, 16 August 2009 03:17 (sixteen years ago)

In line with sarahel's well-put "In general, if people perceive you as comfortable with yourself, they are more likely to feel comfortable around you.", I would proffer that you generally get what you give. By which I mean: the more you put yourself out there, the more receptive others are going to be. I've felt a bit weird lately about not picking up on interest from anyone at all, until I acknowledge that I haven't had my "game face" on for some time. Your outward cues are going to reflect your internal state, and if you're in a headspace that you don't find particularly attractive, people will pick up on that. The best trick ever is not to worry about this shit at all and just live your life. People are often attracted to those who are satisfied with their path and comfortable with who they are. And I know it's easier to say it than it is to actually get to that point (believe me I know), actively focusing on moving in that direction is going to do you a hell of a lot of good in other areas.

― Holy Cow Derail (Deric W. Haircare), Sunday, 16 August 2009 03:48 (sixteen years ago)

There is a someone out there for us all, never despair

This simply ISN'T true. And repeating this tired old chestnut only serves to make those who haven't found their theoretical soulmate more miserable and guilty.

And no, not doing much to connect to personal sexytimes. Too freaking busy with stupid annoying shit that needs to be done already, too tired, too depressed.

Maybe I need to spend some time on the "thread to get over a breakup" on TMI shouting about why fuckface was so awful, but there's really no point in rehashing that now. I was depressed before I ran into fuckface, so it's really not the fault of that.

I'm still never sure that I'm ready to leave my "I'm just not available!" face.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 16 August 2009 08:43 (sixteen years ago)

Also, so much of my "game face" for so long involved being utterly completely drunk enough that I forgot about how much I hate myself. Since giving up drinking, I don't have the prop any more.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 16 August 2009 08:45 (sixteen years ago)

Ok so you've thoroughly explained the multitude of factors keeping you from finding someone. We get it, you're convinced they're not out there, and the world is out to keep you lonely. You've also thoroughly argued against just about every speck of advice given on this thread. We get it, you're not trying anything different.

So what you're doing doesn't work, makes you miserable, but you're not gonna change, you're not gonna try anything different.

So what do you want from us? To feel sorry for you?

― Kerm, Sunday, 16 August 2009 10:45 (sixteen years ago)

http://i25.tinypic.com/2u54boh.gif

― StanM, Sunday, 16 August 2009 10:56 (sixteen years ago)

Why is it so hard for someone to understand that another person might just want to *talk* about something.

Not looking for answers, not looking for advice, not looking for "pity" - just wanting to moan, or vent, or let off pressure.

Isn't it really kind of arrogant to assume that you can "fix" some random person on the internet just through shouting advice at them? Maybe?

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 16 August 2009 11:05 (sixteen years ago)

talk about something as in have a dialogue with people or talk about something as in just be left alone to talk about it

― in excelsis ayo (roxymuzak), Sunday, 16 August 2009 11:12 (sixteen years ago)

I'm a sucker for a sob story.

― Kerm, Sunday, 16 August 2009 11:17 (sixteen years ago)

You can talk about something in a dialogue without trying to "fix" it.

See what Abbott, Noodle Vague, Deric have written above for examples?

I've decided this whole subject is better for the ILTMI board than for here, really.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 16 August 2009 11:25 (sixteen years ago)

advice vs. "trying to fix it"

― in excelsis ayo (roxymuzak), Sunday, 16 August 2009 11:27 (sixteen years ago)

The great thing about advice on a message board read by lots and lots of people is that a random musing or piece of advice relating to a subject brought up by someone else may prove useful to one of the people reading it, not necessarily the person who brought it up though.

― ailsa, Sunday, 16 August 2009 11:29 (sixteen years ago)

And I don't believe for one second that you don't really, truly want things to get fixed, you just don't seem to want to fix them. Venting about bad drivers or the gubmint is one thing, you're talking about who you are, and acting like you don't have any control over who you are. Wishing some hero would swoop in and save you is some fairy tale nonsense. You're the only one who gives a shit about how you feel.

― Kerm, Sunday, 16 August 2009 11:30 (sixteen years ago)

WTF at this level of hostility from Kerm. I really do not understand. All I can say is that there must be some serious projection going on, because I do not understand how you get the things you are saying, from the things that I have said.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 16 August 2009 12:29 (sixteen years ago)

You hate yourself and call yourself fat and ugly and weird and threatening and throw everyone's advice in their face and call me arrogant for trying to help, but I'm hostile. This is why we can't have nice things!

― Kerm, Sunday, 16 August 2009 12:49 (sixteen years ago)

Even if it sounds harsh Kerm is otm. The biggest lesson you can learn in personal matters like this is that you have to believe in yourself and treat yourself with respect. Nobody else has the time/compassion to do that for you. If you refuse to learn that or argue around it or spend 7 paragraphs not acknowledging that then that's fine but until you have a steady even keeled self respect and make that the focus point of as many parts of your life as possible, the relationship thing will be miles away.

Nobody is perfect at doing this but aligning your personal compass so that this is where you're always trying to go (and knowing when you do things that deviate you from this path) is the main thing.

― I for one welcome this new Nazi ILX (Local Garda), Sunday, 16 August 2009 12:56 (sixteen years ago)

Ronan I see what you're saying and in many cases it's true but at the same time telling clinically depressed people what amounts to "pull yourself together and treat yourself with respect" is easier said than done, and not terribly constructive to boot. And saying "you're the only one who gives a shit about how you feel" is just downright cunty.

But at the same time, what you're saying is essentially true, especially the last paragraph. I dunno, maybe it's a matter of concentrating on getting the small things right

― Matt DC, Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:09 (sixteen years ago)

To answer the thread question it is your subconscious saying

Right now where you are disillusioned, this is when you should be realizing that pursuing a spiritual path will be far more rewarding than anything you could get from a carnal relationship, which like all things in this world is ultimately tied to the wheel of life and death (aka the law of entropy). You could find a new partner - all things are possible, hell, you could walk on water if you truly believed it - but doing so will create an attachment to not only that person but also human notions of romantic love, both of which are temporal manifestations. The need to validate one's existence (and thus one's perception of the nature of reality) through acceptance by others is in a socially way admirable but ultimately adds nothing to your understanding of the world and contributes to the mind being pulled in every which direction, continuously off balance. The time you spend alone is spiritually valuable and you should be glad that karmic energies generated by a romantic relationship are not currently pulling you down further and further into this material plane of corporeal suffering.

― Adam Bruneau, Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:17 (sixteen years ago)

One answer to the thread title is time, and the longer the gap, the further away anything (from casual dating to proper relationships) seems to be. Coming out of a bad situation, it is good to take time to reflect, but as months turn into years you really start to wonder how it ever happened in the first place. This is where putting yourself out there might come into play, but even then it can be really disheartening, no matter how hard you try. It mostly seems down to chance, and the longer the gap, the slimmer the odds seem.

So as time wears on you have to take stock and wonder how much is sheer desperation/loneliness dictating your actions and desires. That might leave you open to the bad shit you got from the past. Overthinking sets in and the frustration gets worse.

― The Devil's Avocado (Gukbe), Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:19 (sixteen years ago)

subconscious otm xpost

― The Devil's Avocado (Gukbe), Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:19 (sixteen years ago)

xposts: Ack! that's not what I meant to say... I meant that no one gives as much a shit about how you feel as you do. Sorry, kate. I don't even know you, but I wouldn't even post on this thread if it didn't bother me that someone's bummed on the internet.

― Kerm, Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:20 (sixteen years ago)

TS: pulling yourself together vs. learning to accept yourself as you are

― Bob Six, Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:22 (sixteen years ago)

I did wonder a bit about that - sorry for calling you cunty. Think you probably realise why it looked hostile now.

― Matt DC, Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:23 (sixteen years ago)

TS: pulling yourself vs. pulling others

― The Devil's Avocado (Gukbe), Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:24 (sixteen years ago)

And saying "you're the only one who gives a shit about how you feel" is just downright cunty.

it's not as if someone is saying "lololol ur the only one who cares", but for any situation, no matter what it is, no matter how bad, the only way it's going to be solved is from yourself. that is absolutely true. maybe takes time or for someone to be ready, but it is definitely true.

― I for one welcome this new Nazi ILX (Local Garda), Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:25 (sixteen years ago)

The trouble with "learning to accept yourself as you are" is that in cases of very low self esteem it's just corrosive. It's the difference between "I can be a bit of a dick from time to time" and "I fucking hate myself".

It's also an excuse for never having to do anything about the negative aspects of your personality. I dunno, I think a big part of being a mature adult is identifying the things you do and say that put people off and making a conscious effort to fix them. People who refuse to do this tend to be either very arrogant or self-absorbed or so lacking in self-esteem and motivation that it's easier to fall back on "this is who I am". I'm not really talking about Kate any more.

― Matt DC, Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:28 (sixteen years ago)

I'm talking about behaviour and attitude towards other people here, rather than reinventing yourself to fit someone else's idea of how you should be, before anyone jumps down my throat for that.

― Matt DC, Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:31 (sixteen years ago)

"Be Yourself" is some commie critical theory garbage. First, pretend you're awesome, then get awesome, then be your awesome self.

― Kerm, Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:32 (sixteen years ago)

many x-posts later

It's like, 5 years ago, I was in a horrible car accident. And at first, I thought "argh, oh no, I'll never walk again" because it was so close to the event and I was so badly wounded. The other guy in the accident just got up and walked away. All the people that were in the hospital clinic with me, one after another, they all eventually learned to walk and walked away. And I'm still in this wheelchair.

Most of the time, I kinda think "hey, it's really OK, not being able to walk, I can get by" but every now and then, I'll see something, or something will happen (like 1. seeing the guy that caused the accident, walking around town or 2. someone who's been really supportive and understanding about the whole wheelchair thing, he kills himself) and I'll go WAAAAAH, SOMETIMES IT JUST FUCKS ME OFF, WHY CAN'T I WALK?!?!? EVERYONE ELSE CAN!!!

And so I go on this thread and do a little pity party for myself, maybe, yes.

And then some guy comes in and says "Oh, you could walk if you *WANTED* to, you're just not TRYING hard enough. Because all girls want to walk - oh, and DANCE, too, and ride HORSES and stuff because all girls LOVE horses, don't they!!!!"

(cue me going "WTF? I don't even like horses!" but people start telling me about riding lessons)

And someone else goes "Don't generalise about car accidents!!! I was in a little car accident and broke my leg, but I can walk! my husband and I go dancing every week!"

And then a third person comes in and says "hey, yeah, it sucks that you can't walk. But even if you can't dance, you still like music - some clubs have ramps, so you could sit and enjoy the music even if you cant' dance?"

Maybe I'm stretching this metaphor a little far. But I'm just trying to explain the difference between advice fix-it-ism. I understand the bits about treating yourself with respect or trying to - but the bits where people just shout at me because I "won't" or "can't" take their oh-so-meaningful advice just really fuck me off.

Sometimes I just wanna say "It sucks that I can't walk..." and have people suggest alternatives of fun things that don't involve walking. Rather than being told that walking is the be-all and end-all of existence and that the only reason I can't walk is coz I clearly just don't WANT IT bad enough. Because that doesn't make anyone feel better, that makes people feel more of a failure, and therefore worse about themselves.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:37 (sixteen years ago)

sounds like cronenberg's Crash might be what you're looking for

― The Devil's Avocado (Gukbe), Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:43 (sixteen years ago)

it's not that much like you were in a car accident, if you were actually in a wheelchair you'd be medically incapable of walking.

― I for one welcome this new Nazi ILX (Local Garda), Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:45 (sixteen years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FP4k1Nm3jbM

― Kerm, Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:46 (sixteen years ago)

And someone else goes "Don't generalise about car accidents!!! I was in a little car accident and broke my leg, but I can walk! my husband and I go dancing every week!"

Why are you assuming that people now in a relationship have never had this "I'll never be a relationship" feeling, haven't felt hopeless, haven't had their heart fucking destroyed almost irreparably in the past?

If you want alternative fun options to being in a relationship, perhaps a thread about relationships and how to attain and maintain them isn't the best place to look for them?

― ailsa, Sunday, 16 August 2009 13:56 (sixteen years ago)

Here is my thing: I feel a deep level of responsibility towards people that I am involved with intimately, be it a close friendship or a romantic relationship. Like, I have certain roles that I need to fulfill and I need to treat the other party a certain way or I shouldn't be engaging in that particular interpersonal relationship. And, given my recent track record, I don't feel like I'm capable of maintaining to the extent I would like to maintain, so I'm abstaining from relationships altogether at the moment. I do this partly because I hate hate hate the idea of being a source of annoyance or frustration or pain in the life of someone I care about, but I do it mostly because I recognize that the only way I'm gonna get to where I need to be in order to become a successful relationship partner is by starting with the Man in the Mirror.

So a lot of the time I feel kind of alone and self-absorbed and selfish, but I feel that it would be more selfish of me to plunge into a relationship with someone, knowing that I wasn't ready for it, just because I'm feelin' lonely. So it really is important to me right now to focus on fixing me. I'm unhappy with my job, unhappy with my living situation, frustrated with my stupid ADD, etc. Even if I felt like relationships were something I couldn't have rather than something I was actively avoiding, these things that I'm less-than-thrilled about are things in my life which I have some degree of control over and can fix. And I'm trying to improve my overall health by exercising and eating better. And I'm engaged in theater stuff, which just takes me totally outside of my exhausting brain. I know from experience that the more I concentrate on being a whole and functioning and healthy and happy individual, the more attractive I'm going to be to others. It's a slog and it takes time and a lot of work, but I know I can get there. You can, too.

― Holy Cow Derail (Deric W. Haircare), Sunday, 16 August 2009 14:09 (sixteen years ago)

The trick is knowning when to stop with self-improvement - to cash in the work you've invested

― Bob Six, Sunday, 16 August 2009 14:24 (sixteen years ago)

http://www.ibleedgarnetandgold.com/storage/dear-god-make-it-stop.jpg

― （　´_ゝ˙） (Dr. Phil), Sunday, 16 August 2009 16:18 (sixteen years ago)

This simply ISN'T true. And repeating this tired old chestnut only serves to make those who haven't found their theoretical soulmate more miserable and guilty.

I have no other advice really but I just have to say - there is no such thing as a soulmate, theoretical or otherwise. There is no "one right person". There's often not even one fairly good person. There's just people, and we all of us find them and sometimes lose them, right into old age.

― Spy in the Cab Sav (Trayce), Sunday, 16 August 2009 21:14 (sixteen years ago)

― Sunny River, Sunday, 16 August 2009 21:16 (sixteen years ago)

Tracye's right. Thinking about it in terms of soulmates and "the one" will only make you crazy. Because, even assuming there is one real and true soulmate out there for you, what are your chances of meeting that person? And what about timing? What if you meet your soulmate while he/she is in the midst of a perfectly happy marriage? All of these factors...yeesh. And, yeah: things and people change, as well. It is a lot to cope with if you think about it too much (and I have), but ultimately finding brief stretches of happiness with good people can be enough. You just need to treasure quality moments in the moment, because everything eventually ends, one way or another. Which sounds depressing as hell, but I find it helpful to keep in mind (like how parenthood eventually ends up with the kid no longer needing you as much, so you really have to treasure the time you have).

― Holy Cow Derail (Deric W. Haircare), Sunday, 16 August 2009 21:52 (sixteen years ago)

then you graduate from high school.

― Kerm, Sunday, 16 August 2009 21:56 (sixteen years ago)

You have totally missed the point of what I said. The whole "there's someone for everyone, dearie!" chestnut is bullshit precisely BECAUSE there is no. such. fucking. thing. as a soulmate.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 16 August 2009 22:11 (sixteen years ago)

he said "even assuming"

― in excelsis ayo (roxymuzak), Sunday, 16 August 2009 22:19 (sixteen years ago)

Just responding in general terms to Tracye's post, FYI. But I would argue that saying "There's someone for everyone" isn't necessarily bullshit precisely because the idea of a soulmate is a pretty flawed concept. Once you learn to let go of that ideal (and once you meet others who are mature enough to stop overlooking you because you don't match the ideal), it opens the playing field tremendously. Are you going to meet the perfect person for you? Are any of us? Chances are slim. But the chances are pretty good that you can meet someone wholly suitable with whom you can have a wonderful and fulfilling relationship.

― Holy Cow Derail (Deric W. Haircare), Sunday, 16 August 2009 22:22 (sixteen years ago)

Sorry kate, perhaps I misread you because it kind of did seem like you had that expectation, apols if that wasnt what you meant.

But "someone for everyone' isnt quite the same thing as "the one" either, it just means we can all find companionship if we want to; I do believe that, the key is being open to it though and I totally understand there's times when the heart and mind just aren't up to dealing with it all (been there myself).

― Spy in the Cab Sav (Trayce), Monday, 17 August 2009 00:04 (sixteen years ago)

kate never give up hope. You're an awesome person and you'll find someone, not because "there's someone for everyone" but because you have a great personality and you're willing to love

― (ƨnɘhqɘϯƧ ƨ1ϯɿuƆ) | HI!!!!! | (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 17 August 2009 00:32 (sixteen years ago)

"I feel like i'm too ugly, too fat, too weird, too threatening, too bizarre..."

So what are you doing about it? How can you expect anyone else to want you if you clearly don't like yourself?

It sounds so trite but it's true--you have to love yourself first before anyone else can.

― Nate Carson, Monday, 17 August 2009 10:04 (sixteen years ago)

http://www.hollow-hill.com/sabina/images/thx-captain-obvious.jpg

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Monday, 17 August 2009 10:28 (sixteen years ago)

i was in one such car crashes, and i can walk indeed if i wanted to, with a little limp, but i kind of don't want to do that and would rather walk properly if i were to walk at all, and end up not walking even though perhaps the walking with a limp would probably be a good step towards my proper walking and running and skipping.

but really i would love to have one of those floating seats that professor x has instead

― ken "save-a-finn" c (ken c), Monday, 17 August 2009 11:09 (sixteen years ago)

It sounds so trite but it's true--you have to love yourself first before anyone else can.

Actually, this is bollocks.

― emil.y, Monday, 17 August 2009 11:09 (sixteen years ago)

yeah there are vulnerable people out there who just want to love and help you that you can drain.

― Kerm, Monday, 17 August 2009 11:15 (sixteen years ago)

yes because loving means you're being exploited.

― ken "save-a-finn" c (ken c), Monday, 17 August 2009 11:23 (sixteen years ago)

idk about this "you have to love yourself first" business: yeah, i understand, but that's a best case scenario, maybe even a counsel of perfection. Sometimes people - decent, non-awful, kind, skilled, functional people - just can't love themselves! Sometimes that is the most unimaginably impossible thing, even for people who are amazingly high-functioning, even for people who are capable of doing things that are very hard, like perl or public speaking or opening your bank statements within a week of their arrival.

People have been capable of being fucked up and having functioning relationships at the same time for years! People are capable of hating themselves and still being loved and still being decent to mankind in general and their closest friends in particular.

― la belle dame sans serif (c sharp major), Monday, 17 August 2009 11:26 (sixteen years ago)

nah they're just scums draining their vulnerable loving friends

― ken "save-a-finn" c (ken c), Monday, 17 August 2009 11:29 (sixteen years ago)

Maybe you dont have to love yourself but for gods sakes you have to not HATE yourself. That shit radiates fuckoff.

― Spy in the Cab Sav (Trayce), Monday, 17 August 2009 12:47 (sixteen years ago)

Trayce otm.

Until a couple of years ago, I eventually came to recognise everyone I went out with as obviously an idiot because I thought I was worth so little as a human being that they must be stupid even to want to hang around with me.

This, naturally, eventually brought the relationship to an end in every case. It was only after therapy and much navel-gazing that I got over that substantial hump, and I'd also recommend (as cited earlier) a little "fake it till you feel it" positive thinking.

I do not in any way subscribe to the idea that there's one perfect person for everybody (and they probably live in Tahiti etc), but I do wholeheartedly embrace the idea that the more "perfect" the person you think you're looking for is, the less likely you are to find them.

I don't love myself, but I do like myself, which is a fucking good start. I have learned to accept that I am generally a bit of an idiot, but that my friends, the people who love me, deal with that because of... something ineffable. And I know it's a little pat to say so, but I say it with love and gentle sincerity: if you can accept your friends' perceived shortcomings, on account of the myriad positives that also make them what they are, it's not a huge leap to do the same for yourself.

― Background Zombie (CharlieNo4), Monday, 17 August 2009 13:41 (sixteen years ago)

Kurt: "I hate myself""
Courtney: "So do I!"
Both: "Let's make lots of money!!"

― Mark G, Monday, 17 August 2009 13:41 (sixteen years ago)

i know a couple of people who hate themselves but gets laid all the time. just saying.

― ken "save-a-finn" c (ken c), Monday, 17 August 2009 13:42 (sixteen years ago)

heh xpost

― ken "save-a-finn" c (ken c), Monday, 17 August 2009 13:43 (sixteen years ago)

having a healthy self-image is just one of the millions of qualities about you it's not necessary a deal maker/breaker.

― ken "save-a-finn" c (ken c), Monday, 17 August 2009 13:44 (sixteen years ago)

in conclusion: watch Jeremy Kyle and bask in the realisation that you are 185626562x more lovely than a large percentage of the country.

― Background Zombie (CharlieNo4), Monday, 17 August 2009 14:12 (sixteen years ago)

xpost

No, but if you actively loathe yourself, it may be that you're looking for more of a caretaker than a parter per se. It takes all kinds.

― Holy Cow Derail (Deric W. Haircare), Monday, 17 August 2009 14:13 (sixteen years ago)

xp I just left NYC for the weekend, and I can confirm that the above is true of probably most everyone I know.

― The Lion's Mane Jellyfish, pictured here with its only natural predator (Laurel), Monday, 17 August 2009 14:13 (sixteen years ago)

in conclusion: watch Jeremy Kyle and USE CON-TRA-CEPT-ION and GET-OFF-THE-DRUGS-AND-GET-A-JOB.

― ken "save-a-finn" c (ken c), Monday, 17 August 2009 14:14 (sixteen years ago)

and talk lovingly of "graham"

― ken "save-a-finn" c (ken c), Monday, 17 August 2009 14:16 (sixteen years ago)

I have learned to accept that I am generally a bit of an idiot, but that my friends, the people who love me, deal with that because of... something ineffable.

This bit struck me. It's the hardest thing for me to wrap my head around sometimes, the fact that the people who like and love me aren't completely nuts for doing so. I have a really hard time letting people love me when I myself feel unloveable. But this is only one of my many loveable neuroses!

― Holy Cow Derail (Deric W. Haircare), Monday, 17 August 2009 14:31 (sixteen years ago)

sounds like cronenberg's Crash might be what you're looking for

bahahahahahahahaha

― cosmic abbigong (Abbott), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:04 (sixteen years ago)

I've got the hate / you've got the hooks / let's make lots of money

― (ƨnɘhqɘϯƧ ƨ1ϯɿuƆ) | HI!!!!! | (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:07 (sixteen years ago)

I have learned to accept that I am generally a bit of an idiot, but that my friends, the people who love me, deal with that because of... something ineffable.

this really resonantes with me because for the longest time, before counseling, I was convinced that nobody really liked me and was just "putting up with me" - but really that's not true, everyone's personality has something of value/interest to someone (perhaps not everyone, but quite a large subset of everyone)

― (ƨnɘhqɘϯƧ ƨ1ϯɿuƆ) | HI!!!!! | (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:09 (sixteen years ago)

basically my lesson was: don't be afraid to have the slightest bit of self-esteem. it's quite possible to be happy & content with yourself and not be full of yourself.

― (ƨnɘhqɘϯƧ ƨ1ϯɿuƆ) | HI!!!!! | (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:11 (sixteen years ago)

I don't mean to sound extremely wrong or weird as I know the romantic idea of a 'soulmate' can be a v innocent thing. As a non-romantic (in any sense, literary or emotional) it just seems statistically silly. Why would so many people's soulmates happen to live in the same area, and be of a similar age and socioeconomic backgrounds? (Or, I suppose, happen to use the exact same internet dating sites?) That loco gym shooter said on his blog that he estimated 30 million women had 'turned him down.' IMO the idea the idea of a soulmate is the opposite extreme of this; his was hateful and the other's romantic.

― cosmic abbigong (Abbott), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:11 (sixteen years ago)

Because it's the notion of a soulmate isn't that wrong, not even statistically ~ as long as you don't believe there's only ONE possible candidate. There's hundreds of potential soulmates in our surroundings, and if we find someone whom we label "soulmate", is indeed is a unique person. But it could be anyone really, couldn't it? Well not anyone, but lots of people.

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:28 (sixteen years ago)

ugh sorry for bad spelling

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:28 (sixteen years ago)

^ this. I thought my soulmate would have a zillion twee indie records, be taller than me, be interested in football, like films that aren't whizzybangy blockbusters. Turns out he is none of those things. He might not even be "my soulmate", "the one" in the conventional Hollywood happy ending sense, but he was enough to make me happy and make me stop looking. I have friends and the internet to fill in the gaps in terms of going to gigs/football/cinema/talking about popular culture pish. I have a world outside of him - I think people who expect all things of one person are expecting the impossible and are going to end up disappointed.

(this is not directed at anyone on here, just a random spin-off thought from the idea of "soulmates")

― ailsa, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:37 (sixteen years ago)

also a point that Trayce has already made. Sorry.

― ailsa, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:38 (sixteen years ago)

I think people who expect all things of one person are expecting the impossible and are going to end up disappointed.

Yep.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:38 (sixteen years ago)

"common interests" are one of the most useless things to build any kind of lasting relationship on imo.

― call all destroyer, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:40 (sixteen years ago)

A lack of common interests can make it REALLY HARD WORK to keep the thing going, though, until it gets enough life of its own. I have a friend who struggles with her man not at all grokking where she gets her social values/manners from.

― The Lion's Mane Jellyfish, pictured here with its only natural predator (Laurel), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:42 (sixteen years ago)

well "social values/manners" seems to be more abt attitudes and perceptions of life and different stuff?--i'm talking about music and movies and shit.

― call all destroyer, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:44 (sixteen years ago)

Hmm true. Her idea of appropriate behavior comes in large part from her chosen scenes, groups, etc. Since her bf has a totally different background, he doesn't get that. Obv you can work around that, and they have. But it's been a rocky first year.

― The Lion's Mane Jellyfish, pictured here with its only natural predator (Laurel), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:47 (sixteen years ago)

I think having common interests is actually a pretty useful thing to build a lasting relationship on. If you don't have common interests, how do you spend your time together?

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:47 (sixteen years ago)

making love.

― ian, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:48 (sixteen years ago)

and eating.

― ian, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:48 (sixteen years ago)

pretty ideal really.

― ian, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:48 (sixteen years ago)

Not to my mind. Ends in my being fat and bored -- and boring.

― The Lion's Mane Jellyfish, pictured here with its only natural predator (Laurel), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:49 (sixteen years ago)

Making love makes you fat?

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:50 (sixteen years ago)

Man, I came to this thread in the middle of my own relationship shit because I thought the tone might be a little positive but it's more "woe is me, for I have forsaken the world, and so has it forsaken me" talk.

The idea of a soulmate is only effective if you've found someone you feel that way about. If you can't look at someone, have them look back, and have some dreamy feeling that you're "soulmates" then there's no reason to think about it. Really. I think it's more of a personality thing with some people, due to their background and feelings about relationships. It's like religion, different people have different connections with it, and some not at all.

― mh, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:51 (sixteen years ago)

i think if you aren't on the same page with a partner intellctually/artistically/socially, you should at least be reading the same book.

(that's from my new relationship book *You Can Do It Too! And Even You!*

― scott seward, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:52 (sixteen years ago)

I'm with Laurel ... it sounds boring, especially when you consider that as you age the making love part tends to grow more infrequent. Then you have something akin to my parents' marriage.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:53 (sixteen years ago)

"Making love makes you fat?"

apparently. i gained, like, 30 pounds after i got married. (i was just staying trim until i caught my woman, and then i let myself go to hell.)

― scott seward, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:53 (sixteen years ago)

ehhh if you can find someone who you respect and appreciate and want to spend time with, the actual method of spending comes pretty easily--i know she'll watch football w/me and i'll gladly watch trueblood or hgtv w/her. not to say we don't have any common ground on stuff but i've never felt like it was a basis--it's nice to find someone you like enough that you want to learn about what they're into, not just have it mirror what you're into.

― call all destroyer, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:54 (sixteen years ago)

Ah yes, but getting married doesn't equal making love!

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:54 (sixteen years ago)

i gave up football for maria. um, american football. true story.

― scott seward, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:55 (sixteen years ago)

That is quite beautiful Scott

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:55 (sixteen years ago)

(honest)

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:56 (sixteen years ago)

xp - that's pretty common for both men and women. In fact, one of the common signs that a woman is getting prepared to leave a long-term relationship is dieting/exercise/losing weight.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 18:56 (sixteen years ago)

Oh no!

― kingkongvsgodzilla, Monday, 17 August 2009 18:58 (sixteen years ago)

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:00 (sixteen years ago)

re: shitty old ex-relationships: no, they never really stop hurting. they just stop mattering.

― goole, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:01 (sixteen years ago)

I had a thing -- not rly a "relationship" -- last year that was based on sex and food. You'd think it would be great to have those two things plus get along easily, but actually without any hard work or fighting or facing adversity together, it was a shapeless, spineless thing. I think we both got bored with it -- I know I got bored with ME -- and I gained like 10 lbs.

I need projects, challenges, and I'm afraid as much as I dread it, I need confrontation and friction to give a relationship shape. If I just wanted to hang out, I wouldn't be IN a relationship, we'd just be hanging out.

― The Lion's Mane Jellyfish, pictured here with its only natural predator (Laurel), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:02 (sixteen years ago)

there is truth on this thread. unhappy DOES attract unhappy. or doesn't attract anything at all. in my experience. and believe you me, i've been there and done that. and been there and NOT done that. cuz nobody would do me. cuz i was so low. unless you are a supermodel. then you can be depressed as hell and still get lots of action.

― scott seward, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:03 (sixteen years ago)

it's nice to find someone you like enough that you want to learn about what they're into, not just have it mirror what you're into.

Well, yeah ... I'd find being in a relationship with someone I couldn't learn anything from boring as well. I can theoretically imagine that there is some guy out there that could make me find sports interesting, but I'm very appreciative of the fact that I'm in a relationship with a guy even more apathetic to sports than I am.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:04 (sixteen years ago)

I like that I'm in a relationship with a guy that lets me talk about and go and watch sports without trying to dissuade me, even though he gives approx one zillionth of a fuck about it.

― ailsa, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:07 (sixteen years ago)

I mean, I used to be in a relationship with a guy who went to gigs with me, went to the cinema with me, watched football with me, played the guitar for me, looked like he should be in a crappy Britpop band, all the shit I thought was the stuff I was looking for. He was a prick.

― ailsa, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:16 (sixteen years ago)

he was a guitar player.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:18 (sixteen years ago)

^^ challops for challops-sake post.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:20 (sixteen years ago)

worst is guitar player then drummer then bass player and then DJs and then anyone who wants to "teach" you about classical music and then people who are overly fond of zydeco music. harmonica players and trumpet players are solid though. and they have strong lips.

― scott seward, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:20 (sixteen years ago)

Not really that challopsy, tbh.

xpost

― ailsa, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:21 (sixteen years ago)

I get where Ailsa is coming from though... The Search is such a strange thing isn't it? It almost always starts out by looking for common ground ~ well, for me anyway ~ but a good relationship could've steered away from that all together years down the line, and still be good.

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:22 (sixteen years ago)

DJs are far worse than drummers!

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:23 (sixteen years ago)

yeah, I could have saved myself way millions of heartbreak and also stopped trying to make morons fall in love with me so that I could have some bullshit "soulmate" fantasy if I'd realised this shit sooner.

xpost

― ailsa, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:26 (sixteen years ago)

DJs are the fucking worst ever.

No, wait, Sound Artists are.

I have met one or two decent blokes that just happen to be DJs. Every Sound Artist I've ever met has been a massive dick.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:27 (sixteen years ago)

Most of the sound artists I know are good guys, but I haven't dated any of them.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:28 (sixteen years ago)

omg Masonic Boom are you trying to tell me you've had a series of jerkstore beaus who make musique concrete?

― cosmic abbigong (Abbott), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:29 (sixteen years ago)

scott you are so off about trumpeters! they think they hot shit. esp the jazz trumpeters. sheesh. brassholes, we called them.

― tehresa, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:30 (sixteen years ago)

re jazz trumpeters: it's cause they feel sax players get all the attention.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:32 (sixteen years ago)

probably from being ugly

― You Only Blog When You're Winning (Lamp), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:32 (sixteen years ago)

lol "sound artists"

― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:32 (sixteen years ago)

No, just one, but that was enough. And all his jerky sound artist friends. This is a good thing about not being in a relationship - I never, EVER, have to sit through another conversation about sound art ever again.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:36 (sixteen years ago)

if someone tells you that they make "soundscapes" for "imaginary movies" RUN!!!!!

― scott seward, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:37 (sixteen years ago)

I like that I'm in a relationship with a guy that lets me talk about and go and watch sports without trying to dissuade me, even though he gives approx one zillionth of a fuck about it.

See, ^^^this. It would be nice to have common interests, things I can share with someone, like. But at the very least, I need to be with someone who doesn't actively disconnect herself from me when I'm engaged in or eager to talk about my interests. I make a conscious effort tonot be overwhelming in that respect and also to reciprocate, so I think it's a pretty fair parameter to set up.

― Holy Cow Derail (Deric W. Haircare), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:37 (sixteen years ago)

i can't imagine giving someone who seriously called himself a "sound artist" any of my time or respect

― goole, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:39 (sixteen years ago)

Maybe they meant penile sounding artist, in which case, yes, stay the fuck away.

― cosmic abbigong (Abbott), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:40 (sixteen years ago)

I am pleased to say I am in a relationship and I will never ever have to sit through a conversation about sound art either.

― ailsa, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:42 (sixteen years ago)

I was a sucker for a pointed nose and a good beard. Love isn't blind, but it's kinda deaf, OK?

They weren't imaginary films. They were very boring and very pretentious video art that he did soundtracks for. CHRIST, I used to want to chew mine own arm off to get out of going to his stupid freaking openings.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:42 (sixteen years ago)

i can't imagine giving someone who seriously called himself a "sound artist" any of my time or respect

― goole, Monday, August 17, 2009 7:39 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

I feel the need to stand up for sound artists around the world right now... It's not all misery, I mean, they are good listeners

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:46 (sixteen years ago)

Really over time, I think it's not so much the shared territory you already have, as much as making sure the other person doesn't feel the need to force their interests on you. Much rather would peacefully have different interests than be forced to share something I dislike

― mh, Monday, 17 August 2009 19:46 (sixteen years ago)

yes!

― cosmic abbigong (Abbott), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:46 (sixteen years ago)

At least with the DJ/promoter asshole, the club was at least lots of fun to go to. (Even if I did usually get stuck being door bitch) And he did teach me how to DJ which was probably the one long-lasting good thing to have come out of all that misery.

Actually, would probably date a DJ again, were he not an insane, abusive, Munchausens syndrome, compulsive liar, possible bigamist* dickwad.

*I would possibly consider making an exception for Erol Alkan, though. Would totally be OK with being his second wife. He's Turkish, he's allowed to have up to 4, isn't he? ;-)

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:46 (sixteen years ago)

I feel the need to stand up for sound artists around the world right now... It's not all misery, I mean, they are good listeners

Not in this case, no. he wasn't.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:47 (sixteen years ago)

I'll take your word for it Kate!

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:50 (sixteen years ago)

Oh Kate, please don't forget dude's hatred for the 'mainstream' art world that was so obviously stealing all his ideas. Sometimes I felt like saying that any idea claimed had already been through a few sets of yBA kidneys before he could drink it, metaphorically speaking, because it was kind of THAT obvious. The one time I ran into him at friend's wedding drinks, he was sitting in the Eno wannabes section droning on with this other soundtwat I found even more boring and wet. LOL.

― gossip and complaints (suzy), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:54 (sixteen years ago)

These people like Brian Eno, but not Roxy Music. TRAGIC.

― gossip and complaints (suzy), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:55 (sixteen years ago)

the Eno wannabes section

Genuine LOLS here!

― young depardieu looming out of void in hour of profound triumph (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:55 (sixteen years ago)

shit, now I wonder if I've heard of this guy.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:56 (sixteen years ago)

This is a common thread in the dudes that I date - the world is ripping them off. With DJ Munchausen, it was every other indie club in London was biting his shit. With Horrible Sound Artist, it was everyone from Artangel to Scanner.

Note to self: if a bloke complains about how he is a malcontent genius that everyone is nicking his ideas - especially if he can never ever ever tell anyone his AMAZING ideas in case someone rips his off (note to bloke: how can they rip you off if they have been doing it for years before you even thought of it?) RUN AWAY RUN AWAY NOW

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Monday, 17 August 2009 19:58 (sixteen years ago)

It's OK if ideas get nicked now and again, as much as it sucks at the time, if only for some kind of silent proof that you're on the right track. But when every piece of successful conceptual art with a sound element is claimed by one extremely cosseted underachiever as his own it kind of goes past neurosis into rationalized laziness. The deep irony is that I have NEVER ONCE heard Kate say that the world is biting her ideas. There are simply too many of them.

With this DJ Münchausen rename you are really spoiling us! Or just my computer, with laugh-spittle.

Horrible Sound Artist's reason for living totally dissipated when Boards of Canada hit, BTW. Scanner is actually a good friend of mine from years back so it was VERY interesting biting my lip when the whining started on that front; just imagine what you're missing, commentary-wise, on the David Byrne installation at the Roundhouse!

― gossip and complaints (suzy), Monday, 17 August 2009 20:37 (sixteen years ago)

this is so otm. there are so many different ways to connect with someone, I've met people who had v similar interests and been really taken with that but prob more often than that I'll meet someone who doesn't share any of my interests and the differences of opinion and the things you learn are really exciting.

― I for one welcome this new Nazi ILX (Local Garda), Monday, 17 August 2009 20:59 (sixteen years ago)

the funny thing about being with a person for an extended period of time is that a big portion of your interests actually start to be shared

― max, Monday, 17 August 2009 21:38 (sixteen years ago)

does ur gf like sting?

― velko, Monday, 17 August 2009 21:42 (sixteen years ago)

well now she does

― max, Monday, 17 August 2009 21:42 (sixteen years ago)

xp - some do, but also it's more comfortable having unshared interests ... maybe it's just me, but I feel more comfortable being interested in things my partner isn't, and expressing a lack of interest in things he is. He can go to a dance performance, and I can go to a bar and drink w/friends, and I won't feel like I'm missing out on quality time.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 21:48 (sixteen years ago)

yeah thats why i said "most"

― max, Monday, 17 August 2009 21:52 (sixteen years ago)

or "a big portion"

― max, Monday, 17 August 2009 21:52 (sixteen years ago)

I dunno - we had a lot of shared interests to begin with. Some of his that I didn't initially share, I did end up sharing, but others, I did not, though I tried to for a while.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 21:54 (sixteen years ago)

yeah

― max, Monday, 17 August 2009 21:56 (sixteen years ago)

youre not disagreeing with me

― max, Monday, 17 August 2009 21:56 (sixteen years ago)

some do, but also it's more comfortable having unshared interests

yah thats closer to my xp w/long term relationships u just find space for the things that u dont share an interest in w/o necessarily coming to enjoy them ~ also youre assured enough to be like "no i think that sucks" w/o it being a judgment on the other person

― jveggra va pbqr (Lamp), Monday, 17 August 2009 21:59 (sixteen years ago)

...or feel assured enough to say "no that is boring" without worrying that it will be a dealbreaker or be a negative reflection on you.

― free jazz and mumia (sarahel), Monday, 17 August 2009 22:02 (sixteen years ago)

Ha. I am a drummer and a DJ.

I was married to someone with zero common interests (besides sex). It was fine for a few years. I learned a lot from her. Luckily it's over but 3 years later I'm still sad about it.

So I stand by my advice about "loving yourself". But that hasn't helped me find a soulmate. The older I get, the less concerned I am about that though. It doesn't feel remotely hopeless, and I attribute that to the fact that I put so much energy into the things I like to do and I have a lot of great friends.

― Nate Carson, Tuesday, 18 August 2009 01:01 (sixteen years ago)

When I said "don't hate yourself" upthread I also should point out I don't mean garden variety "damn, I'm boring"/"god I'm fat" kind thinking we all go through. I mean active, radiant self hatred. The kind that has a person reject ALL compliments out of hand. The sort of person who focusses daily on their negative aspects - especially when they dont exist. The kind that then manages to turn any and all compassion and love and friendship from otehr people down into a sucking black hole. It is *really fucking hard* to support people in such a state. I'm not talking about depression either, it's more .. active, and nasty than that.

― Spy in the Cab Sav (Trayce), Tuesday, 18 August 2009 01:15 (sixteen years ago)

And before anyone bites, I do *not* mean to imply the above of ANYONE in this thread. It is something I've experienced in my past on a couple of occasions. And I just couldnt handle them.

― Spy in the Cab Sav (Trayce), Tuesday, 18 August 2009 01:15 (sixteen years ago)

No, I absolutely have had those moments of utter matte sucking black hole depression. And don't think that this is something different from Depression - maybe it's not the common or garden grey wet blanket depression, but it is a form of mental illness in itself, the most deep, vicious, crippling kind. It's impossible to explain to someone who has not experienced, what it is like. It is like the lights have been turned out on the world, and there is no goodness, no positivity, no nothing. And no amount of pouring in of empathy or compassion or love will put them back on. (And it actually becomes irritating when people think that they can put the lights back on, and then get irritated with you for not responding to it, and withdraw.)

Maybe depression isn't even the right word for it, maybe it's a kind of psychosis - but it's something very deep and brain chemical and only a brain-level change (the right kind of medication, serotonin-boosting over-exercise, etc.) will actually affect it.

I've been that person. I've been *with* that person, and had my energy drained out of me. I've seen friends slip down into that state, and wondered why I hung on, remembering only what they used to be like before they got there - and in one glorious case, seen my friend come back from the brink and turn back into the wonderful, loving person she was before the blackness got hold of her.

----

on another subject, it's also difficult when you don't have a long-established base core of friends on whom you can reassess your self worth in the way that Charlie and others have described. It's hard to come to that conclusion of "well, there must be something loveable in me under it all, since my friends stick around" when - because of the transitory nature of your life, or whatever - your friends don't stick around. They come and go, they decide you're too much work.

This is what kills me the most, these days. Not even the not-having-a-partner bit, but the transitory way in which people I thought would be in my life forever, as friends, just slip away, and there's nothing you can do to stop it from happening. If people want to go, you have to just let them go - trying to hold onto a friendship that the other person has decided to end is perhaps even more painful than the breakup of a Relationship.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 18 August 2009 08:49 (sixteen years ago)

It's hard to come to that conclusion of "well, there must be something loveable in me under it all, since my friends stick around" when - because of the transitory nature of your life, or whatever - your friends don't stick around. ...

I empathize with this to a degree that you cannot even know. It's bad enough that, in the past, I've lost entire circles of friends, but there's been a recent rash of very important people slipping away, and it's made me sooooo incredibly gunshy about being at all intimately involved with people in general. You may note in my posts above that I'm currently trying to come to terms with the fact that everything is transitory so that I don't allow the finite nature of relationships to keep me from engaging with anyone ever again.

― Holy Cow Derail (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 18 August 2009 11:49 (sixteen years ago)

Wow, Deric. I think you've got in a few lines the whole gist of what has been really upsetting me and been unable to express again and again on this thread. And the whole romantic-partner thing is a giant red herring. That it's the loss of that other kind of intimacy that has bothered and unsettled me more than the lack of any sexual partner.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 18 August 2009 11:52 (sixteen years ago)

So, here's me, working away from home, and quite upbeat about being au solo. Not in a 'hey' can do all the things I don't get time to' but just ..

I dunno, can't remember now. Last night, bored with my own company, go eat, read book, come back, do nowt.

― Mark G, Tuesday, 18 August 2009 11:56 (sixteen years ago)

Had a depressive breakdown, I suppose you could say, some years ago; through a combination of zero energy, being too ashamed to talk about it, and sudden conviction that there was no reason for anyone to like me sufficiently to want to know what was going on, I lost touch with everyone I knew.

Except that none of them realised anything was wrong, so they just thought I woke up one morning and decided I was way too fucking cool for them and presumably spent all my time doing exciting and rad things without them, so now when I bump into those people they are really guarded and sniffy and keen to emphasise how enormously different their busy recent lives are to any previous pre-historic life that might have had room for me in, and that hurts more than any old just not knowing people.

Oh well. I can't say it's not my own fault. The things you don't think through when you're young and going crazy...

― a passing spacecadet, Tuesday, 18 August 2009 12:40 (sixteen years ago)

could you not explain the circumstances of how you fell out of touch with them? i hope i'd be quite understanding, were i them...

― 'dude, hydroponic uterus' (stevie), Tuesday, 18 August 2009 13:11 (sixteen years ago)

Meant to put this here:

(Or it might make them worse. In my experiences, unfortunately, many people would be more understanding of "oh, she just suddenly became a snob" than "actually, I have had a quite serious brush with mental illness")

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 18 August 2009 13:20 (sixteen years ago)

years of experience

― #/.'#/'@ilikecats (g-kit), Tuesday, 18 August 2009 13:56 (sixteen years ago)

You've described clinical depression, as opposed to just feeling depressed for a while. Not at all uncommon, and nothing to be ashamed of.

This really sounds like you became depressed, dealt with it by excluding people who cared about you, and they feel put off by it. It's possible that they are genuinely jerks who only judge you by how much attention you give to their lives, but I kind of doubt it. It's possible they just feel hurt and are being defensive. The idea that they think you were off doing great things might be real, or it might be something you believe. You have to trust that people who care about you can handle information about your health. Depression, and mental disease, is no different from any other health issue in that it requires treatment, might be recurrent, and might need regular medication or therapy.

― mh, Tuesday, 18 August 2009 14:26 (sixteen years ago)

No, I'm talking about the difference between something like clinical depression and something like...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 18 August 2009 14:31 (sixteen years ago)

Though maybe I'm conflating different sets of circumstances. There are only really two people I've known in my life that have had that black-hole depression that seems to be masking Borderline Personality Disorder.

When describing myself, and that other friend who did eventually come out of it, in my case, it was bipolar disorder, in my friend's case, clinical depression.

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. I've had two experiences in my life, very negative, where I thought I was dealing with someone with clinical depression, and treated them as such, and was actually dealing with something much closer to BPD. My only advice for dealing with someone with BPD is GET AWAY NOW.

But I understand that many people feel this way about the sucking black hole of deep clinical depression, as well. Certainly partners I've had.

― hüzün (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 18 August 2009 14:38 (sixteen years ago)

I was a little harsh in how I worded it, but yes, I think you're right that depression can mask or be associated really closely with borderline personality or bipolar disorders. Recent experience has shown me that you can't be too careful when treating one symptom -- you have to really watch for others as depression, anxiety, or anything else you thought was the main problem starts to recede.

― mh, Tuesday, 18 August 2009 14:51 (sixteen years ago)

My only advice for dealing with someone with BPD is GET AWAY NOW.

Could not agree more. I feel a little bad saying that, but I've had my life carelessly wrecked by a couple of undiagnosed BPD cases. One of whom is probably the biggest catalyst in turning me into such a spaz with respect to interpersonal relationships. I observed for years the negative impact of someone who doesn't care about the feelings of others and learned a little too well from that example. I care too much about the feelings of others to the point where it's practically crippling.

― A Foul Night-Weird (Deric W. Haircare), Tuesday, 18 August 2009 15:13 (sixteen years ago)

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