Ratzinger becomes Pope

White Smoke At The Vatican

"PLEASE ALLOW ME TO INTRODUCE MYSELF!"

(Ned: I searched for "Pope" and got "Pope Dan" not this.. USE BETTER KEYWORDS IN TITLE NEXT TIME!)

They elected the emperor palapatine pope.

Who wants to be the first to photoshop blue lightning coming out of his fingertips?

sheesh.

JURANDIR ARAUJ, NATIONAL CONFERENCE OF BRAZILIAN BISHOPS
It seems that he is too conservative. Hopefully the Holy Spirit can help him change. We expected a person like John Paul. Somebody who could give the Church alternatives ... open the Church to the world, look more at reality.

xpost!

-- suzy (theartskooldisk...), April 19th, 2005.

emperor pope-atine

xpost

http://www.newint.org/issue327/worldbeaters.htm

http://img244.echo.cx/img244/971/pope0rp.jpg

http://www.saasta.fi/saasta/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/paavi.jpg

This image was published in a Finnish web newspaper a few days ago. The headline reads "Pope in middle of pedophile scandal". I wonder if the paper had a hidden agenda there?

exposing paedophilia in the catholic church hierarchy isn't exactly a hidden agenda? or have i missed your point?

Er, look at the picture.

oh right. are they saying that he's up for a bit of underage bottom snooker himself?

Bingo!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7065824.ece

Excellent work by whoever picked this particular journalist to cover this particular story.

ok i thought the bottom snooker was quite unpleasant enough but now i got a pope, a kid and 'bingo!' in my head and it's much much worse.

Yes, my comment was indeed a reference to the old ILX double meaning of "bingo!".

i think that maybe you're a much worse person than we give you credit for sometimes.

bingo!

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n75/feefeemac/gifs%20i%20likey/Golden-Globes-Win-Landa-Bingo-2010.gif

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7065824.ece

Excellent work by whoever picked this particular journalist to cover this particular story.

― Matt DC, Friday, 26 March 2010 12:26 (30 minutes ago) Bookmark

holy crap

mentioned on the irish catholic paedo thread. apparently he also wrote about the belgian paedophile ring in the 90s, you would have thought someone would have a word.

merriweather post paavi pedofilikohun keskellä

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h9tJ-LNtc9Bz4QRBQ7V3BmEggRvQD9ER1KE80

Pope's personal preacher offers defense of pontiff

VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI's personal preacher is likening accusations against the pope and the church in the sex abuse scandal to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews.

The save-a-Poping has been mega-disgusting.

whenever I see his name I still think they mean Cliff from Cheers

http://www.utterpants.co.uk/images/cliffpope.jpg

The only solution to these problems is to give the poor catholics half of Israel.

VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI's personal preacher is likening accusations against the pope and the church in the sex abuse scandal to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews.
― StanM, Friday, April 2, 2010 12:31 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

seriously fuck these guys.

is the pope beyond the reach of international law? is it unthinkable that he might be called to testify in a foreign court (meaning just about any court)? even if he didn't show up, i'd enjoy the spectacle of having to explain why he's above the law.

I guess maybe the Vatican's odd position in the world makes questions of international law complicated - it's not a member of the UN, and technically doesn't participate in diplomacy (the Holy See runs foreign relations, and is an observer in the UN). I think it would have to be a fairly serious charge (i.e. crimes against humanity, which claims a universal jurisdiction) to justify forcing a foreign head of state to testify in a foreign court.

little bit about whispers about attempts to serve the pop with papers here. am generally cynical about this in the same way that one is in thinking that an enquiry might lead to a conviction.

seriously fuck these guys.

^^^^^^^^^^^

(apropos of nothing, i was at a funeral recently, and amid prayers the priest asked that we spare a thought for the priests and their troubles in ireland)

their troubles...

was your spared thought perhaps along the lines of, "seriously fuck these guys"?

i think somewhere in there, in examination of an equation in which there was a nice priest, speaking an affecting service, digressing into shameless apologising for paedophiles, there's some kind of teachable, extendible metaphor that could enlighten us about the way people separate 'the church' from what it means to go to a church to observe religion. but i don't want to think about it, and barely registered it then, and yeah fuck those guys.

ugh tbh?, & i know this is ridiculous and skewed on my part, whenever i read about this, the covering up and the getting children(/fully consensual twelve year old coquettish homosexual adults) to sign secrecy agreements seems the more egregious, unconscionable violation going on with this.

^^ OTM and uh, crux of the matter imo

sure but it takes some doing to have something which is more appalling than abuse?, you know. it's two concurrent threads, and the guys that aren't active paedophiles have this other horrendous psychology to examine.

wish i was phrasing this rather more delicately: something which can seemmore appealing than abuse, blarg.

Does anyone think it's a little ironic that a former member of the Hitler Youth is comparing (justifiable) controversy to anti-Semitism?

tbf, that's not who made the comparison

and while it's pretty lulzy there's a strain of recent Italian comment that's been blaming all this sunlight shining on dirty laundry on some sort of NYC-based jewish cabal so there's a reading in which this was a painfully misguided attempt to quell that a bit

propos of nothing, i was at a funeral recently, and amid prayers the priest asked that we spare a thought for the priests and their troubles in ireland)

― egregious apostrophising (schlump), Saturday, April 3, 2010 12:56 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

This is incredible and mindblowing to me. I have never been a religious person, luckily was raised in a good agnostic household, but it doesn't even make sense to me that a person could say this and mean it sincerely--how warped must someone's values be?

heh

A leading cardinal, making an unusual address in defence of Pope Benedict at the start of Easter Sunday Mass in the Vatican, said the Church would not be intimidated by 'petty gossip' about sexual abuse of children by priests.

The surprise speech by Cardinal Angelo Sodano was believed to be the first time in recent memory that the Easter Sunday Mass was changed to allow someone to address the pope at the start.

The change of protocol indicated just how much the Vatican is feeling the pressure from a growing scandal concerning sexual abuse of children by priests and reports of a possible cover-up that have inched ever closer to the pope himself.

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'Holy Father, the people of God are with you and will not let themselves be influenced by the petty gossip of the moment, by the trials that sometimes assail the community of believers,' Cardinal Sodano said.

Cardinal Sodano praised Benedict as the 'solid rock' that holds up the Church.

Pope Benedict has delivered the traditional Urbi et Orbi message 'to the city and the world'.

The Pope did not refer directly to the child sex abuse scandals in the Church.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/pope-forgives-molested-children,101/

wowwww

that is out of the motherfucking park

ha wait that's old? still though

lol picture of jp2 duh

THE VATICAN has again hit back in strong terms at those criticising the Catholic Church over its handling of the sexual abuse of children by priests.

In an interview yesterday a senior Vatican figure, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, said criticism of the Holy See over the issue was “truly incomprehensible”.

“What we are dealing with now is a cultural battle: the pope embodies moral truths which people don’t accept and for that reason the shortcomings and errors of priests are used as arms against the church,” he told the Vatican daily L’Osservatore Romano.

Cardinal Sodano, who at the weekend said the church would not be distracted by “idle gossip”, in an apparent reference to the child abuse scandal, again defended the record of the pope and bishops on the issue.

“It was not the fault of Jesus if he was betrayed by Judas. Nor is it the fault of a bishop if one of his priests sullies himself with grave crimes. And certainly, it is not the responsibility of the pontiff,” he said.

“The Christian community correctly feels itself injured when people try to involve it as a whole in grave and painful incidents concerning some priests, thus transforming individual guilt and responsibility into collective guilt with a manipulation that is truly incomprehensible.”

this guy is quite the mensch, if i understand the term correctly.

Hard to say what the Church is, if not the actions of its agents.

wait a minute i maybe have not understood the term mensch correctly in any way, shape or form have i?

“It was not the fault of Jesus if he was betrayed by Judas. Nor is it the fault of a bishop if one of his priests sullies himself with grave crimes. And certainly, it is not the responsibility of the pontiff,” he said.

it was not the fault of jesus if judas informed him two years prior to his betrayal that he was going to betray him and jesus decided to do nothing about it

well, if you were being sarcastic, then yes you did use it correctly

chutzpah, maybe chutzpah was what i was aiming for? that's not always a comliment, right?

i wasn't, i just was sick the day we did yiddish tbh

Any excuse to have a go at Judas, give the guy a break already, let bygones be bygones. These cardinals.

Judas was just a good PR guy, where was Jesus going until the crucifixion? Small crowds, personal appearances at weddings, magic trick ffs.

the pope embodies moral truths which people don’t accept

Has Gary Glitter tried this defense?

that was a line that i simply didn't know what to do with- what can he possibly be saying here?

"We're right and the world is wrong- we should be immune to ur stupid rules?"

on first reading it's totally wtf but I think he's saying the people trying to use this scandal to bring down the pope and the church are liberal homo-loving out-of-wedlock-fornicators who are going to burn in hell anyway.

i'm pretty much only one of those things, and it's not so much that i care about the pope and the church as that i'd quite like to see all the child abusers go to jail, and if their organisation was complicit in an institutionalised manner in covering up their crimes then I'd quite like to see fairly haevy legal penalties there too.

In line with the "This is gossip/there is a liberal media conspiracy/smear campaign" defense a good deal of Catholic higher-ups seem to be clinging to these days, only with a more pro-Nazi slant:

Last week, retired Bishop Giacomo Babini of the Italian town of Grosseto told the Catholic Pontifex website that the Catholic pedophile scandal is being orchestrated by the "eternal enemies of Catholicism, namely the freemasons and the Jews, whose mutual entanglements are not always easy to see through… I think that it is primarily a Zionist attack, in view of its power and refinement. They do not want the church, they are its natural enemies. Deep down, historically speaking, the Jews are God-killers."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2010/04/12/bishop_blames_pedophilia_jews_open2010/index.html

man it's like all of a sudden the world thinks there's something wrong with a pro-pedophile, pro-Nazi, anti-semite religious institution

historically speaking, I killed your God, btw

I also drank his milkshake

SB'd u for the milkshake

Shakey, you're not taking into account the inherent goodness of said pro-pedophile, pro-Nazi, anti-semite religious institution.

so no one cares about the MA priest calling for the Pope's resignation, huh

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/13/massachusetts.priest.pope/index.html

fuck mussolini imo

As the storm over leading churchmen’s role in covering up sex abuse gathered strength, the house where Pope Benedict XVI was born in the German town of Marktl am Inn was daubed overnight with the message “F*** yourselves” painted in foot-high blue letters.

geez you guys hate the Catholics more than I hate America.

srsly, if this doesn't bring the all-male "celibate" clergy to an end w/in 15-20 years nothing will.

xp self loathing don't count

policy of celibacy & repression vs (historically) close proximity to kids is the link that nobody's making over here as yet, amazingly

lol i feel like i'm listening to chomsky with that dude

he's otm imo tho

keep it real, Catholicism!

loooooool @ "gay outrage"

their outrage is so gay

C'mon guys he asked for forgiveness, I mean...

You know, maybe there isn't a connection between celibacy and pedophilia and if your're abusing little boys (and you're a Catholic priest) there is a rather obvious link to homosexuality inasmuch as we're talking gender orientation but the real question isn't about celibacy (which I view as increasingly less likely to have been the case for all the disciples) or homosexuality, it's about a giant, sanctimonious global organization which gave refuge to pedophiles for generations and is still refusing to take any responsibility for it.

^^Agreed, tho I dunno if I see this kinda talk effectively skirting the issue?

I mean, jeez I hope not.

WHY these pervs did what they did is entirely beside the point. That there is an institution that enabled and protected them IS the point.

The more they come out and try to justify or ask why, the more it becomes clear that they KNOW they are in trouble. LOL & the whole "media smear campaign" they busted out recently....who is the Vatican's press agent, Sarah Palin?

ROME — Pope Benedict XVI spoke on Thursday of the need for the faithful to do “penance” in light of “the attacks of the world that talks to us of our sins,” in an off-the-cuff portion of a homily that was his most direct reference to the sex abuse crisis that has focused on the Vatican itself.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/world/europe/16vatican.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Dude makes it sound like if the world were not 'attacking' they wouldn't really feel the need for penance. Sorry, Pope, that you live in a world were molesting children makes you worse off than murders.

ers

You know, maybe there isn't a connection between celibacy and pedophilia...

Imo the connection between celibacy and sexual aberrance is that celibacy IS a form of sexual aberrance by any standard (obv homosexuality also have been considered aberrant but I like to be an optimist and assume we're moving away from that historical position, humor me). The prospect of a celibate lifestyle is going to attract aspirants with potentially v serious problems contemplating their sexual futures.

seems to me its pretty obvious that the celibate lifestyle would appeal to people who KNOW they're sexuality is a problem - ie, pedophiles - because it gives them a vehicle/venue to overcome their urges and be all self-righteous about it, while at the same time enabling them to indulge in it. It's a win/win cycle of repression/release/guilt/redemption that promises to be never-ending.

they're = their

ugh

It's a win/win cycle of repression/release/guilt/redemption that promises to be never-ending.

well that doesn't sound compatible with catholicism at all.

Leading theologian accuses Pope of directly engineering cover up of child abuse over 30 years

Timed to coincide with the fifth anniversary of Benedict’s election as pope next Monday, Fr Kung says in the letter “there is no denying the fact that the worldwide system of covering up cases of sexual crimes committed by clerics was engineered by the Roman Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith under Cardinal Ratzinger (1981-2005)”.

He continues: “During the reign of Pope John Paul II, that Congregation had already taken charge of all such cases under oath of strictest silence. Ratzinger himself, on May 18th, 2001, sent a solemn document to all the bishops dealing with severe crimes ( epistula de delictis gravioribus ), in which cases of abuse were sealed under the secretum pontificium, the violation of which could entail grave ecclesiastical penalties.

We need more learned priest detective imo

Fr Kung says that “when it comes to facing the major challenges of our times, his [Benedict’s] pontificate has increasingly passed up more opportunities than it has taken”.

Such missed opportunities included, he says, “rapprochement with the Protestant churches”, “reconciliation with the Jews”, “the opportunity for a dialogue with Muslims”, and “reconciliation with the colonised indigenous peoples of Latin America”.

Also missed was “the opportunity to help the people of Africa by allowing the use of birth control to fight overpopulation and condoms to fight the spread of HIV” and that of making “peace with modern science by clearly affirming the theory of evolution and accepting stem-cell research”.

Could sign up for this guy as my prelate tbh

Imo the connection between celibacy and sexual aberrance is that celibacy IS a form of sexual aberrance by any standard (obv homosexuality also have been considered aberrant but I like to be an optimist and assume we're moving away from that historical position, humor me). The prospect of a celibate lifestyle is going to attract aspirants with potentially v serious problems contemplating their sexual futures.

― Ask foreigners and they will tell you the gospel comes from America. (Laurel), Thursday, April 15, 2010 4:40 PM (Yesterday)

i kinda wonder what we're supposed to be deviating from here? that hetero- (and homo-) sexual behaviours are more normal sexual, tho what you do signal in your post is that all *conceptions* of are historically dependent. I don't think its really fair to link celibacy to pedophilia (also including male-child directed pedophilia under category the MSM sexual orientaion of homosexuality really freaks me out about what that means people think is fair to include within which categories, are men who abuse young girls "straight" pedophiles?) because really it seems more obvious to me that these institutions presented themselves to pedophiles as havens where they would find children within their care and that their "indescretions" (read: heinous sexual abuse) would be dealt with mildly and secretively within the institution and WITHOUT legal intervention.

really shouldnt have quoted laurel in full there esp as that only tangentially related to her post

i feel like there's been a lot of talk gen. that kindof suggests that the church in some way *created* pedophiles, when my mam's exp. working in a church-run institution with a lay-ppl workforce where over the last 10 yrs or so several of her former workmates were unmasked as child abuser, in at least one case a really manipulative and systematic abuser. None of these people were "celibate" and i think that most of them were married with their own children, but complaints against them were ignored and *that* is what made them able to continue for so long and what would make these institutions such attractive places.

I'd also be worried about the notion/accepted wisdom that the church 'creates' paedophiles, Tierninián- There's not really any discussion as to why it would be attractive to those with those tendencies, which would really help to underline the practices that need to be addressed by those seeking reform.

The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don't really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html

iow ico otm

Kung is no doubt right but he's not exactly a disinterested party. Ratzinger knifed him in the back years ago, forcing him out of a university job for being too liberal.

Yeah, but that's not entirely incompatible with him being right, is it?

As in, J Ratzinger's definition of 'too liberal' might be something I could live with.

Yep, that's why I said "Kung is no doubt right". But his putting the boot in might be more to do with bad blood than anything else.

Accepted, but not something I'm going to lose sleep over!

if youre a high-profile member of the catholic clergy and you dont have bad blood with ratzinger at this point i probably dont trust you

sure, just take whatever Kung says with a very large grain of salt

I'd also be worried about the notion/accepted wisdom that the church 'creates' paedophiles, Tierninián- There's not really any discussion as to why it would be attractive to those with those tendencies, which would really help to underline the practices that need to be addressed by those seeking reform.

Not so much that the church creates paedophiles but when being a priest was a respected job, in Ireland say, there were surely plenty of really sexually repressed or alienated people who joined the church. Or indeed people who weren't very smart and cut out for other jobs. Also prob tons of repressed homosexuals joined the clergy as a way to make the marriage question irrelevant at a time where it was completely taboo to be gay.

Not linking paedophilia to homosexuality, just that it seems likely the church was a pretty good refuge for all sorts of people who couldn't be accepted in that society's vision of a "normal" sexuality or life. I mean fairly sure my Mum has told me back in the day sometimes the underachiever or odd child in a family would be sent to become a priest.

Couple that with huge power, culture of denial, strong religious doctrine etc, enforced solitary existence, it's not that surprising that in certain societies a lot of abuse was committed by priests.

fairly sure my Mum has told me back in the day sometimes the underachiever or odd child in a family would be sent to become a priest

that's what i heard too

round the traps

fairly sure my Mum has told me back in the day sometimes the underachiever or odd child in a family would be sent to become a priest

Things you learn from Father Ted.

yeah or from having priest in your family

sort of usual practice for irish bourgie families back in the day afaik

Not linking paedophilia to homosexuality, just that it seems likely the church was a pretty good refuge for all sorts of people who couldn't be accepted in that society's vision of a "normal" sexuality or life.

No Ronan, I think both Tiernwhatever and I completely agree with you there, that's what we're saying.

I'm not sure about the 'odd' or 'underachieving'- the priesthood was often a job the second/third son would have been sent for, and you still needed brains to get in AFAIK. First son to man the farm, then they were fair game for priesthood, garda, county council or whatever you were having yourself after that. It was definitely a desirable position of status not so long ago, not a 'reject' position.

or just any families...there's a pretty famous irish children's book about this i forget the title of

I'm not misspelling tiernafadan's name incorrectly out of ignorance anymore, in cause i'm annoying him- it's googleproofing fyi)

ugh it's tiarnafadan sorry

if not odd or underachieving then maybe unruly? i know my uncle is a priest and my mum says basically he was v wild as a kid and hated school etc. in the end was prob a good career for him as he went to nigeria and i think he has had a really fulfilling life there.

I dunno- my own uncle studied for two years and took the exams, but pulled out of it last minute, went to London on the buildings, married, normal. He wouldn't ever have been a wild thing, but then he was also the eldest so go figure.

kindaprettysure im abt the last person gonna b bothered by bad spelling btw

dont think a vocation such as the priesthood is just another career choice for most. To me there would seem to be some tension in the ideas that back in the day when the church was respected, it would attract primarily societies oddballs, instead of good buggers (sorry).

Anyway whatever common sense folk psychology might suggest , it isnt born out in the figures of abuse in the church relative to other institutions, its difficult to grasp the scale of the church sometimes, but yeah the cover up, go nuts...

dont think a vocation such as the priesthood is just another career choice for most.

Not now, certainly, but in the generation we're talking about, here in Ireland, I think that maybe it was. I mean we were a deeply Catholic country anyway, and you wouldn't exactly have a life of fruitful ridin ahead of you regardless, and sure all the boys had 'housekeepers' anyway.

^^is this really a thing?

i mean the housekeepers thing

I'm gonna say yeah.

x post, a little projecting on my behalf perhaps, one time priest wannabe

well i'm not assuming that you're old enough to be of 'that' generation in fairness. if it helps, if you're my age and wanted to be a priest then i'm happy to call you a weirdo!

My brother was at a Jesuit school in the early eighties (in Australia), and he always said he thought about half the priests were gay. Which makes sense in a way: if you were a pious Catholic growing up in the fifties and you discovered you were gay, what were you going to do? For similar reasons, I imagine the number of paedophiles in the priesthood is higher than in the general population. A lot of people attracted to a supposed life of sexual abstinence are going to be people who are screwed up about their sexuality, one way or another.

Also prob tons of repressed homosexuals joined the clergy as a way to make the marriage question irrelevant at a time where it was completely taboo to be gay.

Not linking paedophilia to homosexuality, just that it seems likely the church was a pretty good refuge for all sorts of people who couldn't be accepted in that society's vision of a "normal" sexuality or life.

This is more what I meant up there, plax.

Would urge against making too hasty of a judgment of what 'normal' sexuality was in Ireland pre-19?60?'s though.

Would urge against making too hasty of a judgment of what 'normal' sexuality was in Ireland pre-19?60?'s is though.

― Jesse James Woods (darraghmac), Friday, April 16, 2010 1:54 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

lol ok guilty, even if you are a bit of a nazi abt stuff

i might seem a bit hysterical on this thing but it has been bothering me the way there has been a sly linking of gay- and pedo- in all the talk surrounding this. Kinda feel like it has fairly benevolent roots in the "non-mainstream sexuality refuge" theory that this thread is really into, but i dont really know how fair it is to keep making those links because they become p poisonous p fast.

it has been bothering me the way there has been a sly linking of gay- and pedo- in all the talk surrounding this.

i think we're all heartily rejecting the 'gay' link to this, in fairness, and i do think it's valid to question whether a life of celibacy is an attraction to a person who feels like their sexual urges ought to be repressed because of prevailing social norms or w/e.

imo the extraordinary prevalence of child abuse that seems to have occurred (may still be occurring?) in a systemic way makes it inevitable that people will speculate on why that may be.

well, who knows...but prob easier to say what society's rules about "normal" were.

speaking of gay priests my friend tells this story where he was in london at a gay bar with his brother and his partner, about 10 years ago i guess, and he met this one v macho "cool" priest who used to teach at the local school where i grew up. he was kind of an asshole and a bit of a bully, one of the lads type scenario. fr dave was also a big rugby fan and would go to the uk for matches regularly. my friend, who hated him as a teacher, was all "AH HELLO FATHER, HOW ARE YOU"...

x-post to plaxico, i felt awkward making my post above, i hope it doesn't read badly. but i do think the idea of priesthood as an "ask no questions about my sexuality" refuge might have something in it. i guess worth saying someone not wanting to have their sexuality up for discussion obv doesn't mean they're a paedophile...and also prob plenty of repressed people thrived in the priesthood, there are good priests around.

yeah not itt, i mean in gen.

x-post to darragh, does anyone think there were people who knew they were paedophiles joining the priesthood in a calculated way? not saying if there wasn't that'd indict the church, just is interesting to wonder if or when that might have started happening..

dont think u could really accuse anyone here of being sly bigoted propogadists

ah you can't be worrying about 'in gen' those fuckers would kill ya worrying so they would

Ronan, I think plax has been saying that for a while now? Personally even I'm not that cynical about the Church, but maybe that's naive of me, too.

x post damn, ouch! I was on a family duty vs individual choice vibe nevermind, thinking about being a priest is weirdoish granted

x-post to darragh, does anyone think there were people who knew they were paedophiles joining the priesthood in a calculated way? not saying if there wasn't that'd indict the church, just is interesting to wonder if or when that might have started happening..

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Friday, April 16, 2010 2:05 PM (23 seconds ago)

actually this is the exactly the kind of question that i think investigations should be addressing, like at least the ryan report turned up a massive batch of abusers who successfully for a while at least, manipulated the system, or managed to work within it. kinda want to know what the warning signals are and how, aside from just more rigorous policing which is imp, but how you can make the environment hostile to this shit in a way it obv wasnt.

i mean...is there a case for saying people's sense of sexual education or ability to self assess their sexual preferences or urges wasn't even developed enough for someone to understand being a paedophile, at certain times in ireland? not saying people were stupid or exonerating anyone, just...if you weren't normal sexually what abnormal things existed as stuff people talked about that you might think you were?

i mean even after these guys abused could there have been huge denial based on this kind of repression?

xxp to LG- It's impossible to speculate on it, really. I don't claim to have any kind of idea how or when the tendency to child abuse manifests itself, thankfully, so i don't know how it would compare to, say, my own experiences of attraction to girls during puberty.

If I'd have felt that those urges/tendencies were 'wrong' to the extent that I'd imagine a paedophile would, who knows?

I can't imagine it was 'calculated' so much as an 'out' option tbh

in my business speak, i'd imagine the growth of the phenomenon was organic, not planned

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/religion/Pope-Heads-to-Malta-Where-More-Sex-Abuse-Victims-Await--91065674.html

nice headline...

Belgium's longest serving bishop has just quit after admitting he abused a boy decades ago. Suddenly felt guilty now it's in fashion or something. Anyway. His first name, you ask? Roger.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt96/MARITER_7/0-B16-PPIOMONTAGE.jpg

big bang started by god, pope decides.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs11/i/2006/171/5/7/Emperor_Ratzinger_by_Danvin.jpg

http://i.imagehost.org/0503/ratzinger-palpatine.jpg

eerie!