FATTIST

Er, I think people are fattist because they think being morbidly obese is 1) disgusting 2) evidence of lack of control and self indulgence

it's a ridiculous notion.

As said, people tend to associate obesity with 'bad health', but it's a combination of not wanting to see 'unhealthy' people and the attitude to the aesthetic of it which stems from the problems shookout describes.

Some of it is based on conspicuous overconsumption - but then there isn't generally the same level of open dislike for people with expensive clothes, cars, houses etc.

I think the control thing is key: if I spent a great deal of time and energy trying to control my bodyweight (and clearly I don't) I'd probably resent people who didn't do that, and if they also seemed happy with not doing that I might well subconsciously try and make them feel unhappy.

To be honest though as a fat guy I haven't ever really felt the lash of fattist prejudice. I think it's much much worse for fat women.

By which I mean, surely SOME people in the world are fat or even obese purely because they eat too much of the 'wrong' food and don't exercise enough to counter that.

well of course.. but that's the same with ALL kinds of stereotyping isn't it? you can almost see a conservatives campaign to try and drive out fat people from our country (omg they're crippling the NHS!! physically!! to the hospital floor!!)

i think this is mentioned before too on another thread but in some cultures being chubby is a GOOD thing. and the health thing is kind of strange too it's not like smokers get laughed at when they smoke a cigarette (nobody goes like "haha hey look that smokey is smoking again!! ooh his lung's so black it's worth 7 points")

And smokers are constantly berated--I'd say smoking at this point in time has been more or less "decooled."

Don't worry New Labour have set up a focus group to look in to this idea

What about Santa Claus?

Someone shouted out "Oi Santa!" at me outside Sainsbury's in December!

So, I think I feel a sense of pity - and not disgust.

All the female relatives on my dads side ballooned after having children, but it suits them and there doesn't seem to be as much prejudice again big ladies in the Caribbean.

I'm not going to pretend that i gained the weight for reasons other than stuffing my face with junk for years on end. I was an emotional overeater, since i've managed to stop using food as a crutch for everything that was wrong in my life the weight's dropped off.

I'd suggest you do not read the ipso fatso thread.

i eat like a pacman. I weight like 9 stone and i recently lost 2kg from going to the gym. you have to figure out whether you're an EATIST or a FATTIST.

lauren .. I kind of think that losing 15 pounds is harder than losing 100. That last bit of weight is very hard to take off. But the hard part is getting started and sticking with it.

otm! i was hyper-metabolic for years - eating whatever and gaining nothing - not having car helped a little perhaps as i did a fair bit of walking for a Londoner (or near enough) although there are exceptions.

oh dave i have already changed my habits a little - i started doing a lot more exercise than i had through the winter and it's already showing as i've been losing weight regularly (my aim really though is to keep my weight as it is but this isn't too bad as i had a slight chubb on the belly to start with)

That's only true because if you drink the beer you still need the food. Beer's fattening but not as much as you might think. One good slice of wholemeal bread, totally dry, is more fattening than a bottle of beer.

If you're in such a bad way that you can't come up with anything to make you feel better other than a tube of Pringles and a tub of Carte d'Or, that's what you'll go for. That's hard for people to understand when they haven't been in that situation, just like mental ill-health is hard to understand. The two often go hand in hand, but mental ill-health often carries less of a stigma because it is (or can be) more hideable than extra weight.

but then i eat copious amounts of rice, and god i love curry. i spent my entire summer's earning of 2000 on curries during one year of uni!

steve I already play a lot of footie!! you just need to join in one of these days ;))))

rowr only becomes repulsion/carcrash-style-horror-spectacle when fat crosses the line between er sensual and gluttonous. sensual perhaps isn't exactly the right word but close enough: tell me music and sex and food and dancing and drinking etc aren't all inextricably tied up with each other and i will larf in your face. how/how much/whether someone looks like they enjoy all these sensual things is a lot to do with how attractive they are... gimme a man with a tummy anytime over one of those straight-up-and-down ones made entirely from bones who look like they never allow themselves anything luxurious/indulgent. you're gonna have a better time with someone who looks like they find pleasure in things: that's sexy.

but then when you see those people who're so enormous they can't walk up a flight of stairs without getting out of breath - how does someone get to the point where moving around starts to be an issue for them and not think "whoa hang on, best do something about this, and fast"? the ones who can't get into or out of a chair without using their arms like cranes, the ones on jerry springer or whatever who're having to be lifted out of their bed cos they're spilling over the sides of it... no one's gonna have a good time with them, themselves inluded. you can feel sorry for them - they must be SO unhappy with themselves, and probably were in the first place to not value themselves enough to stop themselves from getting into this state. they're certainly not getting any pleasure from anything... seriously unpleasant and debilitating vicious circle.

I think we need a new FAK.

it's a good point. people don't stigmatise the very underweight, they feel sorry for them. there is a kind of rising tide against smokers and i hate the puritanism of that. but i just can't help reacting, often because the overweight are often ill in a way which affects their life -- which isn't so much the case for smokers. declaration of interest: i am an ex-smoker and probably a bit too thin.

US college campuses to thread.

And to make things worse - she would fart in your company and find it hilarious.

It got to the point where you'd only visit her if you were drunk or if you had a mate who didn't believe you about this huge, horrible, obnoxious girl who farts and talks about sex all day (and she would graphically talk about sex too).

Is this meant to be ironic?

there's not much i can do about my weight. my family is full of big people. at a size 16 [5'5", 200 lbs], i'm the skinniest person. i dont ingest products with caffiene or alcohol, never keep junk food at home, drink only water, go to the gym [of course with this ankle injury i cant really run like i used to], etc etc. i'd like to think i lead a pretty healthy life -- a lot healthier than my skinnier counterparts. furthermore, my parents own a restaurant. food was never treated like an enemy. id like to think that i eat quite sensibly. i cook at home nearly every night [i dont like to dine out].

its a daily struggle to reconcile my weight / body image with the expectations of society. clothing companies dont make it easy, either. there's so little of them making clothes in my size, and the ones that do make me feel like im wearing a sack. im lucky to be fairly crafty and a lot of stuff is either reconstructed or handmade, but i dont want to do that all the time. places like the gap & old navy are a godsend in my book -- they make 16+ size clothes with a proper fit.

even lesiure time can be a nightmare. when i stay at home, im pretty certain people are condeming me for not being active. like, i spend my days and nights running around the city -- why should i feel like i fat ass when i want to spend time at home? when i do go out to bars / shows / etc, ive pretty much resigned myself to the fact that guys wont talk to me [and if they do, its usually of the creepy old dude variety].

i think what happens severely obese people, or what ive gathered from my friends that are, is that its not an issue of eating way too many cookies, its more a psychological thing. a couple of my friends said it started out by being severely depressed and gaining weight, then eventually they just gave up.

whats kind of irritating is when people choose to criticize fat people but dont say anything about people who drink too much, do drugs, eat poorly and look like skeletons. i mean, the reason they're so skinny is because they're killing their body -- just like us, i suppose -- but in a different way.

ps: apologies for the rant. its just something i grapple with a lot.

I'd also like to know if the smokers, once they've been preached at in a "you should really quit now you, you, SMOKER!" kind of way, whether you rush out for a comfort smoke straight afterwards?

You could argue that that's just the other side of the coin - at some level it's about asserting their own (perceived) sexual attractiveness above anothers.

ectomorphs are all fine with their bodies? you have a point, but i don't think you can reduce it to that.

My family is really Southern, so I like to fucking eat and that's not going to change. I also like to exercise and generally eat healthy. Being "fat" or fat isn't the worst thing that can happen to you as long as you're not having health problems.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous to pretend that one vice is necessarily better than the other. It's really this simple: being fat is less acceptable than other vices because in the eyes of the majority, it makes a person less sexually attractive. And that's the beginning and the end of it, really.

And another factor is cultural. I've actually gained about 10-15 lbs over the past 2 years. In my neighborhood and NYC in general, I guess I would've used to be considered okay body wise. But now, I can not walk down the street without comments (which also annoys me) because their appreciation for a fat ass.

FWIW, there are few thing less sexy to me than smoking.

My family is really Southern, too, but that doesn't necessarily have to dictate your eating habits. There are overweight people EVERYWHERE.

Anyways, Southern was a bad descriptor. I should've explained more than in my family it's connecting event. Weddings, funerals, gatherings, just plain hanging out -- food is a major part of our socializing and entertaining. And we run the gambit in terms of body size.

Word. Anyone who's obsessed with food unhealthily, fat or thin, is in bad shape. But sometimes the tofu is better than the cheesecake! Or tofu pudding... yum!

Having watched my father stuggle to keep on weight (he has diabetes) and my mother struggle with trying to lose weight (she has been anorexic and bulimic at different points in her life, and don't think she's ever had a good self-image), I've really begun to notice how much people neuroses get tied up in food — especially in the U.S. When I notice myself grabbing a snack because I'm stressed or unhappy, I can't help but be reminded (especially because it's replaced smoking). So I'm trying to get better at keeping food in its proper place — enjoying it, but making sure it's not the ONLY thing I enjoy in my day.

I try to eat well and balanced, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna give up good guacamole and fresh tortilla chips. I hate exercising, though, so that's really my main concern. Speaking of, has anyone here gotten good strength-building results from practicing yoga? I've only been doing it a couple of months once a week, but the times I've gone have been very intensive, and I feel stronger. But I don't look any different. :P

okay, okay. there's something of a deadlock here, though. one one side: 'it's my body, fuck off', on the other 'omg you are dying'. one can sympathise with both, which is why it's a deadlock. but ideas like 'thin people are miserable' or 'fat people just like food' are mythology, surely.

Hmm. I don't practice yoga but a very good friend does, and in fact is a teacher of same. She's in excellent shape but one time when a random person said something about 'envying her figure,' my friend confessed later it ticked her off because the implication was that she had just lucked out, when she had done a lot of physical work to get there. Now whether that was the yoga specifically I don't know...but let me ask her when I see her this afternoon out gardening.

Of course, I can think of miserable/happy examples for both. I'm just saying in general.

x-post I know she did. She probably has the fucking chart memorized. She was looking at me like a statistic and not the person standing in front of her. My body's the shit. I know that and she couldn't comprehend someone being at that number and thinking so.

The only thing I could think of was that I know a lot of gay males, thin or heavy, who do like chunkier men...?

But you can find a hundred thousand threads on ILX about how guys like "heavier" women (whatever their definition of such is--granted it is a pretty tremulous term so it's not exactly a scentific measure of whether or not a "fat" woman could hook up easier than a "fat" man).

I was just wondering, if this is actually the case or if I'm imagining things?

* Note: I am not saying "fat people should just date other fat fat fatty fats," it was more of a "people who would KNOW what it's like to be treated like that do this, so it has to be bad" type of thing.

xpost - Dave's point applies at the extremes I think but for most overweight people it's not a case of them actually 'wanting' to be fat, it's that the amount of fat they carry is an entirely acceptable cost of the lifestyle they enjoy. It's like credit card debt: I might be horrified at the idea of having 10 grand on a credit card but if people who do are happy to handle that, why should I care?

"Losing My Shit" by DJP Soundsystem

[Middle English, from Old French voluptueux, from Latin voluptusus, full of pleasure, from volupts, pleasure. See wel-1 in Indo-European Roots.]vo·luptu·ous·ly adv.
vo·luptu·ous·ness n.

1. Giving, characterized by, or suggesting ample, unrestrained pleasure to the senses: voluptuous sculptural forms; a voluptuous ripe fruit; a full, voluptuous figure.

2. THAT WHICH THOU WOULD 'HIT' FOREMOST

Tom's friend that he referenced is a pretty good example of what I meant, not that anyone here knows what the hell dude looks like, except I have no idea what he looked like when he got married; he could've very well fit into more of the "Mr. Teeny" definition of big than the "fat fat fatty fat" definition of big (Ominopotent Baby Remix).

I mean there are definitely exceptions, people that I personally know, but like the overall impression I get is that people don't really seem to care about the sexual-attractiveness-rights of overweight men, certainly not to the extent people seem to care about this in regards to females??

I may start picketing for the sexual-attractiveness rights of overweight men though.

I'm not saying that it is OK or not OK for either side to do it, more curious as to why this is, it's like fat men are just funny or friendly or jolly or something and it doesn't seem like the question of their sexual side even enters anyone's minds.

Calum's threads are ipso facto discluded from discussion!

xpost I think you're right, maybe, Teeny, like it is more "wrong" to make fun of a woman's weight gain because that's "most important" for females? Whereas with men they shouldn't be so worried about their appearance, god stop being such a faggo, etc.

Umm yeah but on a more serious note I do know I have some sort of addiction to food. Or some sort of emotional ties to it. I dunno how to stop it. Should I consult Dr. Phil?

One way to fight food addiction, oddly enough, is making yourself cook more rather than buying packaged goods - it breaks the link between eating and instant gratification, you need to work to get the food and doing it well can boost yr sense of self-worth.

I'm trying to solve this by finding a new job within walking distance.

I wish I could find the ilx thread I'm specifically thinking of but the search function is so, so fucked if you want to do a keyword search, it takes ages :( To describe it basically one (male) ILX regular just kind of threw out that he was only attracted to tall, willowy women and basically all but got called Hitler by another (female) semi-regular and then a bunch of men kind of ganged up on him. But I am trying to think of an equivalent situation with females and cannot, the closest I can think of is how people make fun of Kate's tastes sometimes? Haha it was probably a thread about Paris Hilton.

xpost Calum I hate to tell you this but sex between two skinny people generally looks pretty gross too.

i don't like very skinny girls because the ones i've dated, and granted this is a gross generalization, were over-obsessed with their weight. somehow i gravitated towards a series of girls who were overcoming past eating disorder stuff and they refused to believe that they might just be genetically destined to be their weight. i still love one of those girls a lot and know she's happy now cause she's married to a cool dude and stuff, but it was such a turn off. and i think for the same reason some fat dudes have troubles... if their body image stifles their personality and ability to enjoy life, that's just uncool.

there are probably plenty of really skinny girls that are great, but i had just had enough. my wife isn't huge huge, but she loves to go out for ice cream. vo·lup·tu·ous comes to mind. i mean she's my wife, of course i dig her.

re: dumping on a man ok. dumping on a woman, not ok.

isn't that fairly universal tho? take the fat out, isn't the equation frequently in the hands of the lady? i know that's not always true. i know i've turned a girl down before (and later regretted it like hell, but...) isn't the stereotypical 50s-present mating ritual involving a desperate man and a woman who gets to decide about advances. thus, it's okay for a lady to be fairly harsh, but a dude has to check his PC meter at all times.
m.

I think people should be allowed to like whomever they please, within reason. If you think that you are not fancied because you are chubby, skinny, have small tits, have a gut, etc. etc. you are wrong, because there are a wide range of tastes besides what mass media would have you believe.

Calum I hate to tell you this but sex between two skinny people generally looks pretty gross too.
Ah, so true, and the clashing of bones hurts like Hell. Yet another reason why being thin isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

well, as i generally go for not-willowy brunettes i'm feeling quite liberal and progressive and stuff.
(right now i really want someone to crop up and say they do actually fancy hitler, though.)

(many x-posts later)

Ned, I would love to know what sort of yoga your practitioner friend does! I'm sure she's in good shape from that, but I also wonder if she auguments the yoga with weight training, aerobics, etc. Of course, different people need different exercise plans, but I'm wondering if I can expect to develop any decent muscle tone from what I am currently doing.

Also, Allyzay, a friend of mine LOVES heavy guys — not just tall or "big" ones, her big crush used to be on Chris Farley. Of course his personality had something to do with it, but not entirely. She is married to a pretty normal-looking guy now, though.

One way to fight food addiction, oddly enough, is making yourself cook more rather than buying packaged goods - it breaks the link between eating and instant gratification, you need to work to get the food and doing it well can boost yr sense of self-worth.

Very, very true. Overcoming the time/planning obstacle is the hardest part, but well worth it. It's also fun for me, because I didn't ever have anyone who taught me how to cook properly!

damn xpost

m.

(big tits are overrated — most girls i know who have them naturally think they are a pain, literally)

And no, I'm not really 100% sure what it means either. My friends are weird.

I've never really gotten past Stinky's estimation of why fat people shouldn't be trusted in Hate #8 (or is it #9?) where he asks "How do you think fat people got so fat? By ripping off us skinny dudes!"

as far as the aesthetics of women go, I find the mainstream media bone-thin thing fucking creepy and have always been more attracted to women with "a little meat on them", so to speak. My wife is one such lovely redhead (I'm sure I'm not the only one who digs redheads, sugarpants) and she is *always* complaining about the size of her breasts, how much pain they're causing her and will continue to cause her as she gets older - to say nothing of the weird social ostracism shit she gets from other women because of them....

With regard to the initial question of this thread, I don't dislike or discriminate heavy, even obese people. I will admit that I would not prefer to sit next to someone big if I were on an airplane, but I wouldn't loathe it — it would be much more unpleasant to me if the person smelled or insisted on talking to me. To be perfectly honest, I feel bad for obese people, because I'm sure most of them aren't happy with their size. Even people who are a reasonable size and don't need to lose weight get a lot of flak, and I don't blame them for be frustrated: they probably get "well-meaning" comments all the time (or, even worse, hateful looks), and they can't help what their body is supposed to look like.

My brother and I were chubby kids for most of our youth — we evened out after we went through puberty, but we both had to put up with a lot of ostracization. I was a bookworm anyway, so it wasn't like they needed another reason to ignore me, but I can remember overhearing someone in class call me chubby. I was just devastated — moreso, I think, than if they'd said it to my face. I still have memories of my brother and I leaving the public pool and having a group of teenagers laugh and honk at us from their car. I felt so angry and ashamed, even though I knew I hadn't done anything wrong. We were just lucky we didn't have crazy parents who tried to put us on diets, I think.

It's not that I think obesity in children is acceptable, but I've been heavy and I've been skinny, so I know a little of what it's like on both sides of the fence. I also know that people go through physical changes throughout their lives, and food isn't always tied 100 percent to it. If you're going to dislike someone, do it because they're an asshole. There are way more assholes than fat people, anyway.

http://home.utm.utoronto.ca/~kathrynd/GENDER%20WEBSITE/IMAGES/80s%20-%20katie%20-%20anorexic15.jpg

SEXY!

You're going to be playing a lot in June/July (and getting pwn3d). Begin training NOW

OTM. i'm overweight but i eat VERY NORMALLY and i walk a lot. i'm passionate about food, yes, and if i really wanted to i guess i could eat more salads, but as it is there's nothing hideously wrong with my eating habits. in fact this past week i've mostly been eating clif bars and fruit.

I used to eat a ton of junk food when stressed as a teenager & was chubby for a while in college. It's very tough. I wasn't fat but happened to live with a couple girls who were like a petite size 2 and I felt like such a cow, and yet kind of invisible at the same time. To be honest I don't think I've totally got rid of that feeling though I happen to be rather underweight right now.

I'm fat, people insult me from passing cars. People in shops ignore me constantly.

I don't ever sit down and eat a whole box or cookies or eat pawfuls of lunch meat from my meaty paws. I do eat too much, but it's not junk, it's good food. I just have trouble knowing when enough is enough.

When you feel so low about how you've let yourself get, everything becomes difficult.

Like I said, when I walk the streets people insult me, I can ride a bike although I'd dearly love to, I can't swim because frankly I don't think other people should have to see me in swimwear. I do weights, and I do walk late at night when people can't see me, but it's very very difficult.

Sure, I shouldn't have let myself get this big. But I can't dwell on that now, I have to work with what I've got. But arseholes yelling shit out at me or ignoring me and generally treating me like a second class citizen doesn't make it any easier for me to reach my goal. If you want to help a fat person, be supportive or say nothing.

We know we're fat already.

"maria is the indie rock mama cass" [via]

excuse me while i go choke on a sandwich!

the entire lot of them should go live in that resort in mexico and stop plaguing my eyesight with their ugliness. sorry if thats not the "sympathetic" response or whatever, but fuck it, i think they're gross.

How about all the people who can't even try to treat fellow human beings with some kind of basic level of decency.. just leave on a shuttle for the sun? jesus christ, how do some people sleep at night. If I happened to go to the kind of nightclub where they'd let me in the door specifically because I'm thin and dress well, do you know how much time I'd have to waste figuring out that you were an asshole?

The sorta combination of rage and bafflement I feel about a lot of the comments on this thread reminds me of some article I ran across in some magazine in the supermarket, where this dude was going on and on about how picky he was about women and would only date the ones who wore perfectly matched designer bra and panty sets at all times. It was so amazing, the guy was like the champion psycho useless fucktard of the entire planet.. and bragging about it!

i think we all know the answer to that.

The magazine articles on the other hand are just intended to make you insecure so you'll buy shit from their advertisers. Like Lisa Simpson once said, "Just don't look".

Bravo.

xpost? I certainly hope so!

otm - i think this is what i was getting at earlier.

-- Onimo (gerry.wat...), April 24th, 2005. (GerryNemo)

even better is when overweight people accuse others on the internet of being fatties

I FOUND IT OUT, I FOUND IT OUT. And, surprise, dude was thin as a rail when he hooked up with Lady Friend in Question. The weight gain occurred post-fact. Granted he has gained like three people since then but VERY thin dude at relationship-beginning. So, back to the drawing board with this.

im not intolerant of fat people. just intolerant of fat people in terms of going out with them. im also prejudiced against fat people in terms of music videos. i mean, i love spotlight by jennifer hudson but i like to see sexy people when i watch R&B videos. kinda ruins it to see hudson there.

dude, she's hot.

same for missy. unless shes wearing a massive black bag or something, is it really necessary?

D- trolling

Yeah, pretty weak.

is it really necessary?

for you to get an erection when watching MTV? i don't know, you tell me.

come on guys, he's entitled never to have fat people enter his field of vision

ay dude if u wouldnt get on jennifer hudson u should reconsider ur life choices

so how did you feel about MIA?

Maybe put aside a bit of spare cash every month and buy her a gastric band for her 18th birthday?

i never knew you could get a yellow card for trolling.

but point taken.