Help me to understand the rules of fashion, as applied to men

I wear shorts during summer, I wear black Reeboks in general. If people have a problem with that, that's THEIR worry, not mine!

".. i feel horrible right now, like no one gives a shit about what i've got on the inside.."

The truth is that they'll only want to find out about the inside when they're content with the outside. I would just try some new stuff - see what works for you, what you feel comfortable in, etc. For me, alot of guys make mistakes in the choice of cut - at least here in San Francisco, you don't want baggy Tommy shirts for instance. Make some modest experiments and take it from there. Fashion is supposed to be fun, not worriesome. It can be quite cheap, too. I know this homeless teen that hangs out in front of my building, and he ALWAYS looks good, and I don't think he spends a cent, literally.

i guess so, but sometimes you want to consider how you come across to others.

why? = because it just LOOKS terrible.

im not saying you have you spend a fortune on a designer pair of jeans, but come on boys...girls wont look twice at a guy who's thrown on a pair of baggy, relaxed-fit, light colored denim jeans (god forbid they be pleated, pegged, or stonewashed, unless youre So Fashion that you can actually pull that off. in that case, why the hell are you reading this post??) think about it like this: for the most part, jeans are the staple of your wardrobe, right? right. so i dont understand why i constantly see boys making this mistake...not that im a huge fan, but The Gap makes it so easy and inexpensive for guys to buy a beginner pair of nice, properly fitting jeans that pay some attention to detail (bootcut? antiqued? etc.). give it a go. i promise youll look and feel better with a hot pair of jeans. they make all your ratty tshirts look 'vintage' and all your collared shirts look 'GQ'. you can dress them up with a blazer or wear them with chucks and a hoodie and be caj.

god, i feel like whatshisname from Queer Eye. but im a girl.
okay, im thinking of more.

true.
the homeless look is very in right now. not kidding. bohomeless.
haha.

- "what works for you": problem is, i wore dark socks with shorts for years, and had no idea it was such a blunder! i hate, hate, hate white socks, but i can't wear shoes without socks or my feet stink. so there it was.

- sheep: yes, that was one of the cynical thoughts i alluded to.

maybe i shouldn't have used the word "fashion". i don't want to be "fashionable" or trendy, i just want my choice of clothing to not be held against me. more examples of faux pas, please!

xpost: thanks shh! but i don't understand:

"(god forbid they be pleated, pegged, or stonewashed)"

why? why is this so awful? especially the pleats, why do people freak out about this so much? what are the mechanics of it?

(for what it's worth the jeans i own are mostly european, and don't seem too baggy to me)

shorts (unless you are exercising, or are already unbearably attractive)
pleated trousers
team jerseys
tucked in t shirts
moon shoes
puka shell necklaces
shiny shirts
if you are going to wear a buttoned down shirt for night spend an extra $10-$20 bucks and get it tailored so it doesn't look all boxy and crap
if your hair is short let it grow out a bit and then go to a salon instead of the barber

I walk everywhere and the second category is accurate by default, so yay me!

you can get half socks which don't show above the shoe, or just roll down the normal socks. white sport socks aren't so bad though, you can try and rock the preppy tennis look.

so don't wear shoes

http://www.gluecksbambus.de/shop/images/flipflops-zimt.jpg

then how are we supposed to keep cool in the summertime, exactly? (cynical thoughts rising...)

pleated trousers

again, why??

(xpost: well, i have a bit of a paunch, and am trying to get rid of it. i'm skinny otherwise, though, which makes it surprisingly tricky to buy clothes.) (also i'm dirt poor.)

and most of all:

I don't consider men who wear the following attractive:

seriously? like, you wouldn't even give the guy a second look? i just completely can't relate to this, i can't think of anything a woman could wear, short of an "I LOVE THE KKK" t-shirt or something like that, that would make me have that reaction. it seems awfully shallow to me.

Plus, on the brightside, armed with such information it may well turn out that your friend is a dork who doesn't know fashion from his right armpit and that you are a trailblazer in the halls of couture.

i do wear sandals, in the summer. but it's hard to keep them unstinky.

i have siblings, but they live far away.

shopping with someone fashionable, i've tried that, with some success. but i don't know anyone like that who i feel really understands me as a person, and i want a look that reflects who i am, not something that shoehorns me into preppy-ization, GQ-ization, and so on. i have a strong aversion to dressing in a way that lets me be easily pigeonholed, much as i suspect that i've been unwittingly doing that (file under "dork").

who i am vs. suave: that seems to be a matter of debate on this thread, the question of how often you're going to get past "GO" if you're not well-dressed.

more "why", please!

Shorts on guys are just...no. Unless you are exercising etc etc.

why? why is this so awful? especially the pleats, why do people freak out about this so much? what are the mechanics of it?

well...when you look at people wearing pleated, pegged, or stonewashed jeans, do you find it attractive or becoming? as someone said, pleated jeans make you look a bit poochy around the abdomen. i tease my brother and tell him that it sorta looks like he crapped his pants and turned them around the wrong way (sorry to be gross, haha). pegged jeans/pants, while popular for the 80's comeback set or the super-punks, are harder to pull off unless youre rail thin. they make your thighs look large and then your legs taper off so that your body looks as though its resting on a weird upside-down triangle. stonewashed jeans arent cool unless youre AC Slater.

it's quite hard to avoid this - most clothes which go naturally with each other will fit into some sort of fashion archetype. and if they don't you'll just get pigeonholed as a fashionista. having various styles is key - looking preppy one day, GQ another day, depending on mood/climate/circumstances etc.

shorts on guys are unavoidable, you just need to accept that you won't look super-great in them - just try to colour co-ordinate as much as possible.

i cant imagine why your sandals would stink?? sounds like you might have very sweaty feet, which you can take pills for. that would solve your sock problem too. although shoes with no socks are kinda grody anyway.

on the sandal note...what kind of sandals are they? cause unfortunately, most sandals on boys are pretty unattractive in general, save flip flops on beach boys or birkenstocks to go with the crunchy lot.

cynical response: a lot of men's clothing seems to basically revolve around "how much money do you make"?

If I wear a t shirt and shorts to walk to the store, I am not expecting someone to try to pick me up, but if I am actually going out to meet people, of course I am going to put effort into how I am dressed.

i think many women look a lot more attractive "dressed down", actually.

Shorts on guys are just...no. Unless you are exercising etc etc.

so again, wtf are we supposed to do? roast? i don't have the money to afford to run the a/c twenty-four hours a day, nor to fix the a/c in my car. is the male body so hideous that it needs to be hidden, even if it means getting a crushing headache because you're wearing long pants in 90-plus degree heat? that seems to embody everything i think is shitty about fashion. i'm not trying to start a fight here, but i have to say, if this is representative of what most women think, i'm deeply troubled.

The most important thing when buying clothes is to make sure it fits you.

no doubt, that makes plenty of sense. unfortunately i don't think i'm very good at doing this.

shh!: ok, that makes more sense. it still seems a little doctrinaire, but that's not your fault, i guess it's just the way things are. thanks!

(xposts)

unless youre wearing them in a cut-off semi-ironic way. and thats hard to define or argue, so as a rule...no denim shorts. they just look tacky and cheap.

also, can someone PLEASE get rid of cargo anything? the only reson you need those stupid looking pockets are if youre working production (tv or movies), construction (and isnt that what tool belts are for?), are hiking (again, backpacks anyone?), or shoplifting. but seriously...THEYRE AWFUL. especially on jeans.

again, why? what is it exactly that's so wrong about them? i've never been bothered by seeing other guys in shorts. explain it to me as you would an alien, if you were helping them understand "clothing styles in the early 21st century".

sounds like you might have very sweaty feet, which you can take pills for.

what kind? prescription? (i have no health insurance.)

on the sandal note...what kind of sandals are they? cause unfortunately, most sandals on boys are pretty unattractive in general

they're what i could afford, relatively cheap department store specials that i picked because a friend's girlfriend said he wore them.

can you elaborate on why sandals are unattractive on men, and yet ok on women?

xpost: i do want to change, but i want to understand, not to feel like i'm following a bunch of things that either seem (a) totally arbitrary, or (b) like they're tropes for evaluating my economic viability. i don't think that's unreasonable!

forget the pills -- go to a sporting goods store and buy a pair of moisture-wicking socks. they'll cost you, but if you wash them regularly they'll become the only socks you ever wear.

xpost jody OTM re: those socks. you can get these sheer sock liners, too, which i think are mainly for hiking. you'd think wearing a second layer of material on your foot would make you sweat more but they feel gorgeously cool on your skin. plus, if you play basketball or tennis, they'll prevent you from blistering.

but isn't there a middle ground between "fashion plate" and "shabby dork"? one where you feel like you can be yourself, without having to spend four digits (US$) on clothing every year?

xposts: jed that's actually not far off from what i'm starting to shift towards. the last few shirts i've bought have all been plain, solid-color t-shirts (dark blue, khaki, black). big revelation recently has been realizing that i need to wear a size S, i always thought i was an M but it's too big on me.

i thought socks were verboten with sandals, though?

enough shorts-talk.
NEXT SUBJECT!!

;)

so don't wear sandals!

(a) totally arbitrary, or (b) like they're tropes for evaluating my economic viability

THIS IS THE BASIS FOR 90% OF FASHION. For real, if you want to be cool in summer, wear a short skirt and to hell with the rest of them. But if you care about what other people think THEN ALSO DON'T WEAR SHORTS, as they're really hard to get right. By 'get right' I mean 'look right on most body types' and match your shirt and match your shoes/socks.

xp kate otm in her last two posts.

Once you are cemented into the group you want to hang out with, you may deviate somewhat from its strict norms, but must never blatantly oppose them. Within bounds, you may even become a fashion leader.

Of course. Jed's advice is very good. Keep it simple. Buy a few classic items and you'll always looks acceptable even if you don't quite look like a calvin klein model.

(i wd go barefoot all the time if it weren't for broken glass and vomit and stuff)

i meant in the streets outside

no shorts
no sandals
no athletic shoes
no t-shirts (if you must, just make sure they don't have any writing on them)
stick to one color scheme

all you need is casual leather shoes, pants/jeans that fit, and some button-up shirts in solid colors. Hard to screw up.

nb when I met my husband I think he was wearing acid-washed jeans and a B.U.M. shirt. Don't expect your luck with women to change if/when you become a snappy dresser.

xxp

not meaning to start a fight here, ned, but i dont see how this is insecure...? you have your own opinion, thats cool-- but...i just dont like cargo shorts. they look stupid. and thats my opinion :)

what the lady said.

vs.

don't be paranoid about how much money you have, or look like you have. Fashion is about confidence.

it's very difficult to reconcile these two statements!

my height and weight are almost exactly average, statistically. (about five nine or five ten, and around 150-160.)

the "men shouldn't wear shorts" thing is really depressing me. (it's not the first time i've heard it.) it's like everything i ever suspected about fashion etc., but thought i was just being cynical, is turning out to be true. hot weather pummels me, and the idea of having to spend a day without a/c, in jeans, because the male body is so hideous that it can't be shown...it's not very encouraging.

also, i'm really not here to argue, i was hoping to understand the logic behind things. i appreciate it when folks are giving me at least some kind of why. otherwise it feels like a secret club and rather kafkaesque.

how about wearing pants made of a lighter fabric?

I find boys with no money tend to dress better than boys with a lot (investment banker types). Go to a men's store and or talk to a fashionable friend about where clothes should fit on your body, so that nothing pulls or clings badly and things will give you a nice straight silohuette. I think t shirts are fine, unless ill fitting. I am also against anything that has the designer or manufacturer logo'd on it as the design motif (gap, abercrombie, dior, tommy).

fwiw, I just don't feel right wearing shorts in public. feel like i'm in my pj's or something. it's hot as fuck here now and usually is all summer long, but i get along just fine. i'm wearing cords now and it's 95 degrees and humid!

well, honestly, this summer the only time i've been wearing shorts is when i go to the gym, because i feel like nothing i have is acceptable. this has been ok this month, because i've been working in an air-conditioned office and haven't been going out, but starting next month i'll be moved somewhere without AC.

xpost: yeah the "no t-shirts" thing alarmed me too. it's like, ok, the last vestiges of my youth are now to be erased, it's time to become a Corporate Soldier...

pants made of a lighter fabric: i've tried this, a bit. the only problem is that i seem to have really bad luck with (say) light-colored slacks, they always seem to pick up dirt or grit or stains i can't get out. and i can't afford to spend, honestly, more than about $50 a month on clothing costs, and that's really pushing it.

i think maybe i do have a problem. the heat just flattens me, if i get too hot i get bad migraines. also i sweat, and unless i'm wrong, huge sweat spots on the underarms of one's shirts are probably a major turn-off, no?

Go to a men's store and or talk to a fashionable friend about where clothes should fit on your body, so that nothing pulls or clings badly and things will give you a nice straight silohuette. I think t shirts are fine, unless ill fitting. I am also against anything that has the designer or manufacturer logo'd on it as the design motif (gap, abercrombie, dior, tommy).

i don't wear any designer-logo stuff, for what it's worth (i don't like prominent logos either). i think part of the problem is that i'm a skinny guy with a gut, and that makes it tough to find pants, especially. the ones that fit the rest of my body fine are too tight, and you can guess the opposite...

true.
the homeless look is very in right now. not kidding. bohomeless.
haha.

-- shh! (wide-eye...), June 28th, 2005.

You mean DERELICTE by http://umsis.miami.edu/~amack1/WILL%20FERRELL%20IS%20THE%20FUNNIEST%20MAN%20ALIVE_files/image011.jpg?

how the fuck do you get rid of sweat spots on your shirts? i don't mean long-term stains, i mean the moisture under your arms that makes dark spots (until they dry). i use deodorant/anti-perspirant, but it doesn't stop it, and i've repeatedly been told that anti-p is bad for you anyway. but i can't see wearing an undershirt all the time, certainly not under a t-shirt. what to do?

Seriously, when dressing to attract people, you have to de-emphasize your weak features. Girls can wear shorts, dresses because usually the legs are an attractive feature on them. On boys, not so much. Cover them. Plus being around all the leg hair in a social situation, other than a picnic is not appealing. I mean, whenever I am lax about shaving, whether it be 1 week or 14 months, I tend to wear knee high boots or knee socks.

yeah, the olsen twins crack-addict hippie look is very in. they're selling so-called "bohemian skirts" at the mall near where i live!

questions:

1) so all men should always cover their legs? it's always a bad part on men? is there anything like this on women? (that's an honest question, because i can't think of any part on a woman that i want to see hidden as such.)

2) what if i go to the gym and get muscular, powerful legs? will that change anything?

i mean, you've gotta admit, the notion that an entire gender has a body part that is unattractive and needs to be hidden, that's pretty intense! where's a feminist critique when you need one?

Comfort when at work or at home or running errands or whatever -- ergo, during hot summer months, T-shirts and shorts and to heck with anyone complaining FFS. I do my laundry, my clothes are clean, I feel relaxed = YAY. Spaz out over the supposed fashion mistake I am making wearing shorts and I laugh in your face.

Dressing reasonably nattily when on a date/at a party/etc. -- and I've more than perfectly appropriate shirts/pants/shoes for that.

And all is well.

I'm deeply not into the idea of people noticing me, though, and my frumpy dress is a way of keeping people's eyes off me.

there are many instances in which you should not wear items of clothing mentioned above. you just have to wear things that are appopriately matched with one another. wear t-shirts with athletic shorts. wear polo shirts with preppy shorts or "chinos"/"khakis". wear button-down shirts with "slacks." jeans can vary in their formality, but generally it's better to dress them up rather than down. don't tuck things into jeans. to wear a button-down shirt with them, you're going to want to look for something cut to be worn outside of rather than tucked into pants (i.e. shorter than a regular dress shirt). don't be afraid to wear slightly business-y clothing as casual wear. begin with a base of understated colors and then branch out without restriction, but based upon what matches your skin/hair tone.

during hot summer months, T-shirts and shorts and to heck with anyone complaining FFS

pretty much. while you should be interested in looking good, you're going to look best when you're comfortable.

But having said that, I think the best way to go about this is to think about this not so much in terms of a set of fashion rules(though it's good to keep some of those in mind) but about how to develop your own sense of style. This sounds ridiculously cliched, and I'm not sure I know how to explain it, but I find it's true. You have to let out your hidden dandy, in a sense (and I agree with many here that the results need not be expensive).

The thing is Shabby, even as you say "give me some tips", all your answers bespeak a tenacious unwillingness to let go of the cozy identity of "dork" you've created for yourself. So of course, you can rebuff every suggestion with accusations of trying to impose a NEW identity on you. What I'm suggesting is that the picture is more complex than that. If you're like most humans, you have within you various tendencies and personalities, some of them dorky perhaps, some slightly vain, some appreciative of aesthetics perhaps (even the aesthetics of simplicity if you will). Who knows. But that part, or those parts of yourself, need to be given some free rein, if you're really going to "understand the rules of fashion, as applied to men" for YOURSELF.

a-ha. i'm not going to dispute that shorts may be unattractive to girls who are uninterested in anyone who may be a jock or a jamband dude. so if you're interested in girls who would not be interested in same, perhaps you don't want to wear shorts.

Then you can wear whatever.

eyeball kicks otm re: the gut. you can wear clothes that de-accentuate the fact that you're not in shape, but the more in shape you are, the more attractive you'll be, whatever you're wearing.

This is a spike of truth that pierces me.

i'm working on it. i've been told by female partners that it's not a major issue, so i may be making more of it than i should, but like i said, it can make finding clothes a pain.

all your answers bespeak a tenacious unwillingness to let go of the cozy identity of "dork" you've created for yourself

i think that's a little unfair! i appreciate the intention behind your post, though. the reason the shorts are a big deal to me: (1) i still don't understand how anyone can endure the heat without them. anything above 80-85, if i'm not wearing shorts, i feel like a roast potato and am likely to get physically ill. (2) it feels fucking arbitrary and unfair, moreso than a lot of other fashion things (for instance, the dark socks with shorts thing doesn't bother me except inasmuch as i feel foolish). buying well-made or well-cut clothing is one thing, but saying that i have to be overheated throughout the summer because a part of my body is inherently unattractive...for me, it's a bitter pill to swallow.

"i'm male, in my twenties."

(xpost) well, i'm going to the gym, and hoping it will effect some sort of positive change. that's the best i can do right now.

haircut? fairly normal. just got it cut, actually, and not at a barber's.

I know that one! It's great.

i dunno, i always feel like i'm chasing after some elusive ideal of just looking neat and normal without being corny. i'm perpetually dissatisfied but i think it's important to have some kind of ideal, it's like anything else. i'm suspicious of those who say things like "why should i care what others think of how i dress." why shouldn't you care?

-- h0t h0t h0rsey (flembac...) (webmail), June 28th, 2005 5:49 PM. (Carey) (later)

I'm probably far, far too old for this person to begin with but it's instructive looking at her list of no-no's as I commit a majority of them, which is fine as every generation has to appeal to their own. What I come away with, in my hubristic and narcissistic way, is that one cannot please everyone. I have a very particular style though very derivative and I dress to please myself. If I feel well appointed and you find me repulsively (I won't say ridiculous because I sometimes am) apparalled, we simply won't get on, will we? No harm done. I suggest finding a sartorial esthetic that makes you feel like yourself, or rather like that self you aspire to, and let the imporatant things like your personality, your wit, and your charm do the rest. If punk has taught us anything, it is that for a person to carry off a look, it is a certain fortitude be it even through stoicism. A confident man will have a good time regradless.

this isn't too difficult actually. wear lightweight linen/linen-cotton/cotton pants and maybe allow a bit of ankle-breathing room. flipflops/sandals or sockless shoes will help. (xposts)

This makes me think of t-shirts that are also calculators.

this look also = "german tourists." which is NOT debonair.

honest question: how do you feel about the economic implications of this? in other words, that there's some overlap with judging people for not being able to afford to buy "nice" stuff, for being poor (unless they're willing to go into chronic credit-card debt, that is)?

(thrift shops aside, though unless you live in a big city, it can be tough to find decent shoes in your size in a regular store, let alone secondhand!)

i'll be frank, it makes me really uncomfortable, both in terms of class relations and in terms of gender relations.

(i'm so fucking tired of being broke. people, don't chase your dreams, just get the MBA...)

ya know, a pair of lederhosen could be the answer to shabby's problems!

i buy shoes at payless and i don't care who knows it.

- natural is nicer than synthetic (esp. in hot weather).
- slightly loose is nicer than slightly tight (esp. in hot weather).
- one colour is better than lots on the same garment.
- don't wear everything the same colour at once. Lie things next to each other to see if they go.
- easy colours to wear are grey, blue, black, brown and camel.
- it is nicer to buy things which are distinguished from plain by small details of styling than by having a label or a word on them.
- money spent on shoes is not wasted. They have to look good so you want to wear them, and they have to be comfortable so your feet stay functional.

Know your body type and dress appropriately. Go shopping with a female you trust. Things like chucks or casual addidas, pumas etc are not expensive.

Also, where do you live and who are you hoping to attract?

i didn't say that i judged people by how *expensive* their clothes were! i've bought half of my clothes on the cheap, and often i just have them tailored a bit to fit nicely.

Do you really think they're fucking you because of how you look and not who you are?

unbelievably gorgeous hipster girls

this does not compute

actually, don't ever wear "chinos"/"khakis". please.

And shorts, oh, shorts. It's so hot here right now and people keep saying things like "I was in Senegal and it was hot, but this is different, this is really, y'know, hot." At this point, people just say whatever and wear shorts. For some reason I think these work, but maybe I have a particular personality in mind:
http://www.urbanoutfitters.com/images/us/local/products/productsall/p140451b.jpg

The sweating issue: people sweat and the key to not sweating when it's 40 degrees out plus humidity is sitting still in an air-conditioned room, wearing only underwear. Otherwise, wear fabric and colours that conceal the sweat.

because if you tried to please everyone you'd go insane. because it's totally superficial, and people who would judge you by what shoes you wear aren't worth one iota of your concern. because it leads down the path towards trendiness and excessive vanity.

I actually did say exactly that over the weekend. Shorts are fine as long as they're not denim and cargo shorts without an excess of pockets generally look good.

Crap.

If you look good, and people see you looking good and react favourably, that affects how you feel about yourself.

There's nothing superficial about being proud of yourself.

xpost there is if you gain that pride by what you wear!!

I'm more careful with what I wear, and as a result I'm married to someone incredibly gorgeous and have some very very good friends, many of whom probably wouldn't have known how to relate with me had I met them wearing '80s slacks and a beige parka. This is not snobbery, it's a reflection of who I am. It's a presentation of myself as a person. And if I'm going to wear clothes they might as well make me look good.

is that like a wife and a family and a dog and a cat?

xpost everyone has no problem? you sure about that?

For the original poster, hot hot horsey's advice sounds good. Shorts are bad (I don't like them on adults period--men or women) because they are not flattering to the body, that is they tend to make everyone look more squat and chubby (like horizontal stripes) rather than long and lean. Tee-shirts, on the other hand, I'm aok with, provided they fit well (not skin tight, not baggy).

well, at least we know there isn't a "superficial" or "judg[mental]" bone in your very heterosexual body

And you're coming across as a smelly anorak.

oops: i would talk to a person wearing that parka the same way i would anyone else.

My best mate of 10 years got around in literally nothing but ill-fitting off-white slacks and dark grey parkas. He didn't care what I wore and I didn't care what he wore.

Within my circle of friends, I don't care who wears what. I honestly don't. But I'm more likely to surreptitiously ogle people who weren't dressed by their mummy.

oops: i dunno call me crazy (or a hippie) but i take pride in how i treat people (and hope that that is what attracts people to me) rather than what i eat, wear, or listen to.

I take pride in how I treat people and what I wear. It's possible to do both.

The point is, I want to feel comfortable in what I'm wearing. My wardrobe says a lot about me. It's a ready representation of who I am.

What's wrong with pride? What's wrong with vanity?

It's possible to be proud and vain without being a wanker you know.

"people are going to superficially judge me, so it's fair that I judge them".

I've already explained why it's not superficial.

It's possible to be proud and vain without being a wanker you know.

I have not found that to be true. Let's agree to disagree.

You need to get out more.

yeah i need to get out more so i can be around vain snobs. yes totally!
whether someone smells nice or not isn't a factor. nice try.

Suggestions:
- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.
- Try fewer keywords.

cock flap vs cock strap c/d

Any word from the Jury on leather yet, Bailiff?

do you really wanna see rosie o'donnell or dick cheney nekkid?!?

yes, the distinction is crucial! when i said i was shallow i had my tongue partially in cheek. i do judge people by what (and *how*) they wear, just as i would judge them (in a noncommital sense) by the music they listened to, how they talked, how they carried themselves, their politics, etc. but my judgements are constantly open to revision! i am close friends with people who dress really snappy, and close friends with people who... well who are rather less than snappy. one of my less-snappy friends has self-esteem problems and they come across rather blatantly in how he dresses and carries himself (the two things are connected). i might even say that if i met him *now*, in a casual context, i might dismiss him or something. maybe that's shallow, but in this ever-changing world in which we live in (©1973 paul mccartney) one makes those sort of snap judgements all the time. and again, they should be open to revision, but if the point is to attract or at least not deflect some random stranger's attention, then dress well! in whatever way suits you! meaning dress consciously.

flipflops and lederhosen, string vest so as not to be hot, powdered wig for anti-hipster flamboyance, and well-cultivated halitosis so oops doesn't feel quite so uncomfortable

Shabby, who are your favourite groups/bands and what kind of art and books and film do you like? Is your hair dark or light? Eyes blue or brown? Are you in a big city or are you more suburban? All of these things play into how you dress, but if you have good or interesting taste in the arts - something that really makes you who you are - you can make that clear in clothing terms. Unless your approach to fashion works from the inside, out you will not get very far.

The male colleagues on the fashion magazine I work for are pretty dressed-down, considering it's known for wild style. They keep their Levis pristine, dark and loose-fitting, t-shirts are plain or graphic-design cultwear, shirts are usually solid colours. There has been a recent uptake of Lacoste shirts in very bright colours which are worn with a white teeshirt peeking out from underneath with the aforementioned Levis sitting nicely on the hips (with waistband of boxers visible above waistband of Levis). They are more experimental with haircuts than their clothes as a rule, unless they shave their heads. The only acceptable sandals for them are Birkenstocks and other acceptable shoes are either black and 'expensive' (bought in sale) or the trainers they like most at the moment. It's really hot here right now so there are a lot of guys working bright flip-flops in a single colour or with Japanese patterns.

My stance on the shorts on men debate goes: yes they are OK if they are from the 'utilitarian' end of the clothing spectrum, fit loosely and are 3/4 length. Men have nice calves generally, so show that off. Proper military-surpus combats never go out of style (don't buy camo w/patterns or Gap-type 'cargo pants' EVER though). Beige or khaki or black flat-fronted chino-ey shorts of this length also work, but only with trainers (get some anklets for this in a colour that matches one of your other garments), sockless flip-flops or sandals (and NEVAH wear the ones with the velcro that look like chopped-up '80s sneakers for kids). It's not men's feet so much as HAIRY TOES which freak most women out, incidentally. If your feet sweat when you go sockless, get some talcum powder and give them a good dusting after your daily shower/bath and that will take care of a great deal of the sweat and the smell you fear.

Cost: your $50 a month can buy you a great deal, depending. Obviously you can't do it all at once so you'll have to modify your wardrobe incrementally. Target is good for packs of teeshirts, socks, etc. Thrift stores with an army-surplus section are the best places for camo shorts. Your whole budget for one month will be spent on one pair of Levis. Go to sales at department stores (but stick to the most directional parts of the men's department and the most old-school preppy). Go to designer discount places and be prepared to sift. Go to Goodwill etc. and also be prepared to sift, but only buy well-made stuff from designers or what you'd call a nice shop. Stay away from poly/cotton mixes and indeed all unnatural fibres.

Maybe you should tell us what city you are in or near - you can then be sent to specific places. And by the way, you see a lot more fashionable women when you go out looking for clothes for some reason.

any ideas where to find, mail order from anywhere. Any other hat ideas?

amen. cargo clothes are the kind of thing i would pay to have rounded up and burnt if i were an eccentric billionaire. a totally horrifying outgrowth of this style is the dressy ladies cargo pant, usually featuring some kind of ugly embroidery (perhaps in silver or gold thread) or long dangling belt thing.

So the last thing i ever want to do is think about what i'm going to wear, is probably not the best way for Shabby to proceed...

(Argh SQL is destroying my vocabulary.)

Also, big kiss aimed your way.

Hottt!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

i don't see what's so wrong with fashion. i don't follow it to the letter, but sometimes it's fun to incorporate some small current thing into your own classic look.

This is so got damned OTM that you needn't read anything else ever in your whole got damned life about any subject.

Fruit loops/locker loops: are these actually uncool or was that just some elementary school nonsense?

I just bought a shirt the other day and it turned out to have one of these. Should I take it back, rip it off (without somehow damaging the shirt), or just leave it be?

It was just an excuse for adolescent boys to touch one another.

They do kind of mark your garment out as being more in the direction of a "work shirt" than a "dress shirt," but if the shirt is indeed more of a work shirt, then this is entirely appropriate.

I would not worry much about the fashion implications of this.

You probably can't get it off cleanly anyway? Usually I think those are sewn into the yoke seam, unless I'm imagining it wrong.

Except that jeans are awful.

-- Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, June 29, 2005 5:32 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

I mean they're no shorts, but. Gah.

-- Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, June 29, 2005 5:32 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

I think jeans are ugly. I haven't worn a pair in something like 16 years.

-- Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:43 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

Oh, Chris. Sigh. :(

I mean srsly, and some of you think scarves are pretentious?

start an obnoxious trend and link the shirt loop to your wallet or keys via chain

Yeah, it's absolutely for a work shirt. I won't sweat it. Thanks for the answers.

Seriously, when dressing to attract people, you have to de-emphasize your weak features. Girls can wear shorts, dresses because usually the legs are an attractive feature on them. On boys, not so much(1). Cover them. Plus being around all the leg hair in a social situation, other than a picnic is not appealing....(2)

-- h0t h0t h0rsey (Carey), Monday, June 27, 2005 7:53 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

1. Wholeheartedly disagree. Nice calves = amazing part of a guy's body. Nice thighs, same.

2. Do you advocate covering arm hair as well?

agree, jesse

nice legs are like a prelude to the butt

It's the song Billy Strayhorn was meant to write.

Thanks! For me, the only really good thing about summer is seeing men in shorts.

But I want my legs to be a surprise! (For better or worse.)

As someone who hangs out with a bunch of kilt-wears from ages 30-70, don't even get me started on men's legs.

I wonder which is less attractive to people, seeing my leg hair as a result of shorts, or seeing me being an incredibly sweaty person as a result of wearing long pants in July?

Fashion requires sacrifice, Dan.

I never knew until reading recent ILXors' opinions that there was any question about whether shorts were acceptable or not. Questioning shorts is like questioning glasses - some are nicer than others, but I would never dream that anyone might write off the whole class.

Actually I totally dig developed gams on a man, but if you see them right away when you meet it's like there's no build-up. Wd rather wonder for a while and then BAM be surprised one day.

Plus then you can be all sneaking looks without embarrassment because you're not staring at a total stranger.

POLL: Is Laurel a character from a Robert Jordan novel?

nice legs are like a prelude to the butt

-- elmo argonaut, Monday, March 24, 2008 7:24 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

This is OTM for both sexes.

xp hhahahahahah!

xp Gchat pic suggests "yes".

xxp See, I don't care about butts. Only the extremities themselves.

I will only wear shorts when I set out to do something physical as a goal unto itself. (Hint: I do not own a single pair of shorts.)

I own maybe 8 pair of shorts. And I have nice legs. And butt.

They're not terribly hairy, not that that matters.

Fruit loops/locker loops
i never knew it had a proper (kind of) name!
as someone who seems to have a hard time hanging anything other than dresses up properly, all my clothes should prob have these. and my closet should be walk-in and just a whole bunch of hooks. and someone standing in the corner shaming me.

I am still anti-shorts on dudes. My roommate's friend was questioning whether the way he dressed was keeping girls away and I was like "uh, you are wearing jean shorts..."

http://www.brown.edu/Facilities/Theatre/Images/0506/Hair%20Poster%203.BLUE.gif

it's tough finding nice fitting dude clothes. they're either homo tight (H&M) or sweaty suburban wage slave boxy/baggy (every American department store in existence).

sinewy calves showing beneath shorts speaks suggestively of thick ellipsoid quadriceps counterbalanced with hemispherical bicycle butt jesus wtf how can you not be turned on by that

that's kinda true
xpost
also LOL jean shorts

xxp - in between lies burt stanton, radical urban individualist/non-faggot

I'm kind of getting a flutter in my chest just from your description, elmo!

fuckin homos. my name's tony guidutti and i'm frombay ridge. first rule : stay outta bay rudge

Calf-related grossness:

At the Pride parade there was a guy in shorts, 40-ish, really really muscley. His calves were a mess - super vascular, sinewy in a bad way, and so huge that they bumped together when he walked. And shaven.

Burt_Stanton Fashion Tip #43: If ur vegan loud and proud, skinny cut-off jean shorts will show the world your glorious lack of muscle tone. INdie grrrls procede to swoon

Post scarf.jpg here.

http://www.fifthcolumnclothing.com/images/vse-scarf.jpg

I want to enter this as a piece of evidence. Please notice who is and is not wearing shorts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT59FXkS93Q

always did like Goose better

Oh yeah. The hearts were all a-flutter over Goose.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/images/misc/goose.jpg

Stylin!

he looks like a cross between jeff foxworthy and the flowbee guy

(Granted, taking fashion advice from Top Gun is maybe a bit suspect in itself. But try to meet me halfway here.)

guys with the popular wide-leg jean shorts just look like they are 6 years old; it does not have to be this way! slim shorts at knee length or just below is a good look for 08 i think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBSUvU1kUY4

Hmmm... you think I can pull this off?

http://bopersson64.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/shorts.jpg

my heart was never a-flutter over goose
tho i can't imagine wearing jeans while playing volleyball esp in california
tom cruise, so much hotter when he wasn't a total freak

i can't imagine wearing jeans while playing volleyball esp in california

true, it's a little weird. I think we're supposed to be wondering what brand his jeans are.

lol @ satin member's only jackey

kenan: only on the tennis court, i think

going for "jean shorts" here is facile - cutoffs are not shorts

elmo otm, u r all gay

my friend and i were just lolling at members only collar on jacket in bk industries yesterday.

whoa you guys. A GIS for "cutoffs" might qualify as one of the top ten gayest things on the internet.

(Nah, prolly not.)

tza, that collar is coming back for some reason! full disclosure: i have a members only jacket (taupe)

i thought it came back and went already

I hate Bk industries. Their bags are only slightly less repellant than "Timbuk2" bags

http://www.spci.com/tuckalumni/images/products/214-4-102.jpg
^ would never date someone with one

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/83/240025839_48cfd1981a.jpg

WHATS IN YOUR GO BAG?

http://www.bigminibenefit.com/images/Sobe-white.gif

U FORGOT SOBE ;_;

the dude with the denim shorts is frequently hit on by gay man. and he wonders why.

^ would never date someone with one

s'all good, San Francisco's lesbian community feels exactly the same way about you

i saw you buying a pearl jam record,and i noticed that you're gay
i saw you hanging around in allston,and i noticed that you're gay
i saw you riding around on your rollerblades,and i noticed that you're gay
i saw you getting your tongue pierced,and i noticed that you're gay
i heard you spend all day on the internet,and i noticed that you're gay
i saw you drinking a frappucino,and i noticed that you're gay
i saw you wearing a fucking tree shirt,and i noticed that you're gay
you've got a tribal tattoo, and i noticed that you're gay

i heard you spend all day on the internet,and i noticed that you're gay
i heard you spend all day on the internet,and i noticed that you're gay
i heard you spend all day on the internet,and i noticed that you're gay
i heard you spend all day on the internet,and i noticed that you're gay
i heard you spend all day on the internet,and i noticed that you're gay
i heard you spend all day on the internet,and i noticed that you're gay
i heard you spend all day on the internet,and i noticed that you're gay
i heard you spend all day on the internet,and i noticed that you're gay

i got a dandified cord suit @ bk industries (q.v. March 08 wdyll thread)

Really? The one from this weekend?

i saw you wearing a fucking tree shirt,and i noticed that you're gay

one of my fav ac lyrics

I didn't wear shorts for a decade, and then I picked up some rather small, trim, corduroy board short, which I kinda love -- I wear them with Vans, and I think it looks like I'm headed off to play tennis in the mid-60s. My realization = before, when I wore shorts (i.e., 1998), I was trying to avoid the "embarrassment" of wearing shorts by choosing long, baggy, ratty, cargo-y cut-offs. Whereas shorts require you to embrace them; get them short, neat, and sharp-looking, and own it. If David Hyde Pierce can look good in such things on national television, then so can you.

i think bk industries is mad overpriced, though occasionally they have good sale deals. i wouldn't drop $100 on their bags though their clothes can be cuet (though not the $78 hoodies wtf worse than american apparel!).

shorts as casual wear = fuck you, chump, get off my sidewalk, I live here, you fucking tourist

shorts as working/sporting wear = acceptable

I have like 4 pairs of cargo that I think I've only ever worn on dayhikes or backpacking trips.

In the woods.
Need to carry things.
Freedom of movement.

cargo SHORTS

Note to meaniepants jerk Jordan: I own no camo cutoffs.

Dave Attell: [discussing Tobias with Carl Weathers] Whoa, this guy's straight?
[holds up a pair of Tobias' cut-offs]
Dave Attell: Then, what am I wearing these for?

Dang, I did not mean for everybody to get all up in arms about shorts again. Guess it was inevitable...

Nabisco (or whoever) post some pictures of good-looking David Hyde Pierce shorts. I'm going to need something this summer and every time I wore my usual baggy shorts last summer, I felt like I was going to a Papa Roach concert or something.

I don't even wear shorts while hiking. TICKS, MOSQUITOS, SNAKES.

other than to the beach, I'm pretty sure I haven't worn shorts since '96

If David Hyde Pierce can look good in such things on national television, then so can you.

I was about to make some crack about lol but he's a wuss! or some such, but then a truth bomb went off: a man of roughly my build, height, and often demeanor can scarcely hope for hotter.

wearing shorts in nyc gets you dirtier than you'd think!

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/usa_films/wet_hot_american_summer/_group_photos/david_hyde_pierce1.jpg

the only dude shorts I think that look good are those skinny above the knee kind. if I didn't have pathetic chicken legs I'd probably work it.

I think I've outed myself before as having a weakness for very old, very washed, very soft, Army green or camo cut-offs or the equiv shorts version. It's something about the not-trying and the softness and the...I don't know. But on good legs, they're hot.

i have a similar weakness for worn-out camo tshirts (pitstains aok)

these shorts do not offend me:

http://adn.is.bluefly.com/mgen/Bluefly/prodImage.ms?productCode=2118444&width=300&height=300
http://adn.is.bluefly.com/mgen/Bluefly/prodImage.ms?productCode=2121699&width=300&height=300
http://adn.is.bluefly.com/mgen/Bluefly/prodImage.ms?productCode=2133581&width=300&height=300

note: knee length, slim cut, absence of pocket cargo pockets, absence of inexcusable plaid or madras patterns

i like those!

Those are quite yummy.

On the day I interviewed for my current job (small Chicago law firm - 4 lawyers), my predecessor was wearing basketball shorts. We're definitely casual around here, but that was just way too much. I would never consider wearing shorts to work. Except last summer when the a/c broke and I was working on Labor Day.

Those shorts ARE all yummy, but I absolutely 100% CANNOT wear the girl equivalent because I am not a thin person, so I can't honorably demand that men only be cooler and more comfortable in the summer if they can fit into some stovepipes.

I trust there are fuller-cut version of flat-front, non-denim styles, too, but those v v narrow ones are not universal.

GUYS my mom brought me this box of clothes my parents/grandparents were giving to Goodwill to look through...there is a pair of JEAN SHORTS WITH...PLEATS!

score!

I tried them on...they don't even make it 1/2way down my thigh.

I wish I still had a fucking camera!

Seriously, as someone who wore big "crazy" cat in the hat hats in the late 90s I can honestly say this is the most ridiculous thing that's ever been on me.

Besides my ex. bah bum PSHT

did those cat in the hat hats have a green alien somewhere on them?

I wore them INDOORS in BLACKLIT ROOMS.

I might be exaggerating a little.

omg those hats

did you wear the matching stockings too?

I need new shoes. Shoes you can wear anywhere, on the bus, in the woods, sidewalks, classrooms. Those are pretty much my main four walking surfaces that I frequent. I tried to find a good online shoestore a few months ago and completely failed, harming my perception that I was an above-average googler. Can anyone help me out?

IIRC ilx in general is very opposed to hiking boots but I wear them pretty much 94/7 otherwise my feet and ankles will get sore at some point during the day.

Shoes you can wear anywhere

I believe the magical footwear you're thinking of is a black leather boot. This is the kind I have, and I recommend them highly:

http://www.shoes.com/productimages/shoes_ibec1047858.jpg

I wear them anywhere, and they don't mind weather. But put them up right and polish them regularly with good shoe polish, and they look good with a suit, too. You can't beat a black boot for versatility, really.

But don't buy boots online. That is pure folly. More than other shoes, they tend to run in weird sizes, and ill-fitting boots are not something you're going to get much use out of.

doc martens five eye kyles. one pair black, one pair brown. you're welcome.

Yeah, I've had to completely cut myself off with shoe buying -- I have a couple dozen pair of shoes, and I wear these boots almost every day. My other shoes are lonely.

You will also need some of this

http://www.foothealthcare.com/acatalog/polish.gif

and one of these

http://wrightsshoerepair.com/images/Shoe_Brush_with_100__horse_hair.jpg

and I like the little applicator brush, too. Find an old rag around the house, the softest thing you can find, cotton, almost threadbare. All told, this will run you about $10-$15, and armed with it, there is no limit to how much high-quality, leather conditioning SHINE you can achieve. The ladies will swoon.

nickalicious wanted to freak out the squares.

On the bus ride home, I saw a guy walking around in shorts similar to the cuts that elmo posted, except they were multicolored plaid and his girlfriend had a matching pair. You could pretty much tell these guys were on a field trip.

But the cut looked decent. I don't think I could pull it off until I lost a few though. Fat sucks.

"shoes you can wear anywhere" do not require kiwi and a shine brush.

Depends on where "anywhere" is, doesn't it? Maybe the woods, maybe a job interview.

Besides, shined shoes look good (noticably, even), and I enjoy the ritual of wax, oil, and horsehair. I'm still trying to perfect my "spit shine" (no spit involved), and I can get a pretty high gloss, but not quite mirrors.

I dunno... it just feels like one of those little quaint old manly rituals that's satisfying in itself, and then extra satisfying because no one else (my age) bothers much with it. Like using a shaving kit.

a hoos does not utilize shorts

Tom, surely they taught you in the military that your shoes can never be too shiny!

kiwi liquid wax.
because the real deal is great, sure, right up until you have to ride an escalator.

xp yeah, exactly, kenan.

see also my haircut

still fold all my undergarments into little squares even

You've gone astray, young man.

Umm yeah, Elmo gets what I mean about shorts, with those pictures up there -- instead of being like "oh, whatever, I'm wearing shorts, they're just ratty cut-offs like maybe I was helping someone move earlier today, you don't KNOW me," you just freaking admit that you're wearing shorts and get some that look, you know, natty! Slim, neat, nice fabric, etc.

I am not going to take that logic to the extent of posting a picture of the shorts I wear, but still.

i was a big shorts hater last year (i think theres a thread where i make fun of jess for wearing shorts) and then i cut off a pair of corduroys (above the knee, duh) and wore em with boat shoes like, all summer. this summer im buying a real pair of shorts and im going to get laid 400% more often and look 6000x better and more comfortable than shorts-haters

hahaha cord jortz

the only problem with those shorts i posted upthread is the $$$ ridiculous; that is the ideal i'm talking about, elusive to find at sane retail cost.

i think thrifting some decent slacks and hemming them up might be the economical way to go for me.

LEATHER SHORTS!
http://www.jaminleather.net/images/_087_.gif

can i pull this look off y/n?
http://men.style.com/slideshows/mens/fashionshows/S2008MEN/TBMEN/RUNWAY/00230m.jpg

i have two pears of searsucker shorts that i wear in the spring/summer on the reg

OK WOW PAIRS

searsucker pears would be rad though

DO NOT tuck your t-shirt into your jeans.

NO tank tops.

NO flap pockets on jeans.

NO heels on your boots.

Ah wait. I like heeled boots sometimes.

What if you wearing a t-shirt under your shirt? You can tuck into your jeans then, can't you?

xp You need them. For motorcycling.

Let me reconsider . . .

NO

jel's question is kind of important except regardless of the answer I don't think anyone would change their get-up. it's an UNDERSHIRT.

Well a small heel doesn't count as a heel.

http://ongaru.com/ongaruco/images/Motorcycle%20Boots%2010200.jpg

No way. Men's cavalry boots are awesome. xp that's what I meant. What did YOU mean??

What if you wearing a t-shirt under your shirt? You can tuck into your jeans then, can't you?

Only if you're really skinny like jel. You can do a slight Georgia Tuck.

NO flap pockets on jeans.

lol I have not seen this yet. there are flaps on the back pockets of a couple of pairs of canvas chinos that I own but for jeans jeans? wtf, men

if you're not tucking in your undershirt then why bother

Exactly.

I like to tuck in my shirt but leave my undershirt untucked.

*vomits*

WRONG

http://www.jeanspassion.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/twisted-seam-flare-jeans.jpg

No heel on boots = no Beatle boots. And that would be a shame.

http://img.nytstore.com/IMAGES/NSAP529_LARGE.JPG

It's a good look.

Ah, ze Cuban heel.

i still dont get wtf is up w/ people hating on shorts

Those are wrong TO BEGIN WITH because the inseam migrates around to the heel. Who WANTS to wear jeans that feel like you put them on sideways all day?

XP OH HEL-LO CUBAN HEELS

i just wear regular dickies shorts to just around the bottom of my knee, khaki colored, they're not superfashionable slim shorts (altho i have i think two pairs of those) but they dont look tacky or trashy or whatever and they work real well w/ sneakers and those socks that go below the shoe line

No heel on boots = no Beatle boots. And that would be a shame.

Ooh tell us about the 90s. Oasis or Blur?

YES Dickies, Carhartt, work or sports shorts.
NO belts with shorts.

if you tuck your polo shirt into your shorts you are an ASS. HOLE.

that is MATHEMATICS.

or possibly married with a couple of kids and just want everybody to understand that you really, really don't care anymore

Dearest Felicity,

While we may agree with the abomination that is the tucked-in t-shirt, I must take umbrage with the following:

No tank-tops - I'm sorry. A tank top that is worn well by a woman is one of the most oddly, yet undeniably sexy things EVER.

No heeled boots - Fuck that. If I want to sound like Marshall Dillon from Gunsmoke while I walk around the office, nothing does it like a good heeled boot.

No flap pockets on jeans - while I may agree most of the time, I am currently wearing jeans with flap pockets. So fuck that fatwa, too.

Sinsurly,
BLAM

Ooh tell us about the 90s. Oasis or Blur?

Not fair. That beatles' feet pic gets a lot of things just right, even that not-so-trendy short cut of the pants that Laurel mentioned. You can wear them with slacks like that, or maybe with Skinny Jeans and pretend you're Andy Warhol for the day. I like. I miss my old pair.

http://gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2006_07_mayorbsocks.jpg

yea well if you wear a collared shirt with jeans and some sort of blazer or sportcoat and do not tuck your shirt in you look like some manner of casual douche

like HEY GUYS it's FRIDAY and I LEFT MY SHIRT UNTUCKED

A tank top that is worn well by a woman is one of the most oddly, yet undeniably sexy things EVER.

WRONG THREAD.

thread4u

No heeled boots - Fuck that. If I want to sound like Marshall Dillon from Gunsmoke while I walk around the office, nothing does it like a good heeled boot.

No flap pockets on jeans - while I may agree most of the time, I am currently wearing jeans with flap pockets. So fuck that fatwa, too.

rule4u

xp

yea well if you wear a collared shirt with jeans and some sort of blazer or sportcoat and do not tuck your shirt in you look like some manner of casual douche

fixed

hey guess what blazer over polo with jeans is a extraordinarily reliable douche signifier anyway. hoodie that shit or wear something else without a collar

high five xpost

http://fclubd.ru/engine/data/emoticons/JC_highfive.gif

blazer over polo with jeans is a extraordinarily reliable douche signifier anyway

I believe this look is named after its inventor, Hank Scorpio.

collared Oxford shirt tucked with jeans=no biggie
collared polo shirt tucked with jeans=douche city

damn you kenan you beat me to it

yeah by 'collared' i mean oxford, sorry i didn't spell it out for you

"Oh, I see you're rockin the Hank Scorpio today. More power to you, brah."

collared polo shirt tucked with jeans=douche city=

http://www.343guiltysnark.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/douchebag2.jpg

anything tucked into jeans=ugh

I DIED OTM

same as shorts rule above really

o i guess that's a better way of looking at it, yeah

http://men.style.com/slideshows/mens/fashionshows/S2008MEN/TBMEN/RUNWAY/00230m.jpg

really not enough commentary on this above - I think it is an A+ look

http://resource.cottoninc.com/_images/primages/MM-3-300.jpg

anything tucked into jeans=ugh

-- I DIED, Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:21 PM (Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:21 PM) Bookmark Link

the exception to this rule would be a pistol.

rules vs. guidelines

That picture = Everything he put on that morning needed serious help. :(

really not enough commentary on this above - I think it is an A+ look

-- I DIED, Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:22 PM (14 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Ani/SarcasmMeter2.gif

not actually sarcastic - if I saw a dude dressed like that walking down the street I would be like "there is a guy who knows how to accomplish things"

Please let that guy in gabnebb's picture be rifling through some stranger's purse, not a man tote.

like he wasn't going to let anybody make him choose between match club and swim team.

xpost

the guy in that pic doesn't need a man tote - you can fit whole binders in that blazer pocket.

Wow, you really could. I didn't notice, since it's cleverly in such a nondescript color that I almost can't tell he's wearing a blazer.

Ugh what is that on his wrist, an electric bracelet for fashion crime house arrest.

xp

i know there are general boundaries of taste and there are ways of wearing garments & combinations thereof that signify formality or leisure or whatever -- but whenever someone pronounces some hard and fast rule for wearing guys' clothes it kinda makes me wonder if you are a soulless business chump whose status-hunger is secretly coded into the correctness of his wardrobe or else if you are a piercing nag who buys all her husband's clothes

nothing personal, anyone

truthbomb

not actually sarcastic - if I saw a dude dressed like that walking down the street I would be like "there is a guy who knows how to accomplish things"

whereas I would be like "there is a time traveler, I wonder what he thinks of dippin' dots"

soulless business chump whose status-hunger is secretly coded into the correctness of his wardrobe

guilty

The size of the man tote and his pockets make it easy to imagine he is a perfectly proportioned 4'5" wearing a cut-down normal sized jacket. Try it.

xp Of course. Refer to thread title. You must know the rules before you can break them.

now see that guy's look makes me think he can hold his breath underwater for a really really long time. dunno what it is, but it's NOT the madras

Yes, elmo, but people who ask what the rules are aren't in any way equipped to be breaking them and looking awesomely individual. So if you have to ask, you should be adhering.

or y'know elmo you could just check the sixth fucking word in the thread title

I dunno if felicity and I actually need to both be here. You got this? I'm gonna go smoke

*chomps Nicorette*

I have work to do.

Felicity thinks men can wear shorts. I don't know what to make of that development

anything tucked into jeans=ugh

I think this tendency comes from men sometimes not understanding that there are many, many other kinds of pants, and having their only model for what to wear be what their mom used to buy them. There are school clothes, which are jeans, and then there's the one or two pair of church pants, which are ewww itchy. And then trying turn this foolishness into a point of pride. "What? I'm a casual guy!"

Good work everyone. Take 5.

xp

hey, am i allowed to wear black socks & black shoes with shorts? it'd be a pain to pack sneakers & white socks just because i want to wear shorts.

(about 99% of the time i wear jeans or dark pants w/black shoes & socks)

Ok wait, though. I just thought of something. There is a way to do the blazer/oxford/jeans combo -- add a cowboy hat. A moment ago you were the office dork, but now you're oil rich!

where are you going?

http://www.chateauproducts.com/images/Clock%20Sign.jpg

Alan Jackson concert.

Oh, I thought you meant with my snazzy new cowboy hat.

hey i'm fine with rules, but not all rules have the same weight

i was reading all this shit on styleforum today, for whose members wearing red and pink together is the height of travesty

most published men's style rules are conceived to produce the most conformity with the least chance of risk

oh man red and pink are awesome together.

I really don't care I'm just announcing what types of looks will automatically register douchehood in my lizard brain when I spot them on a fellow dude

http://www.blogadilla.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/corp_douche_kig.png

RULE: Don't dress better than me unless I like you or can steal your ideas

elmo, I think a lot of published men's style rules are just trying to bring men up to speed in a rudimentary way. Establish some kind of base line.

"Conformity" isn't so awful, really, when you see someone that's drifted too far in the other direction and dresses like he's a special snowflake.

fwiw i am wearing grey glen plaid trousers with a grey pinstripe suit jacket, also a graphic tee and pumas

most published men's style rules are conceived to produce the most conformity with the least chance of risk

Yes, this is exactly right. And until you don't have to ask what the rules are anymore, this is probably the best tack to take. However please learn the rules quickly because you and your buddy wearing the same khaki and blue outfits every day are making me embarrassed for you.

my manbag guy is colorsmart. i also like his calder sunnyside up wall hanging/shawl.

today i am wearing cuff links and no tie. i will go sit in the corner now.

Today my laundry-challenged combo of a blue gingham shirt, military-green pants, and boots is making me look like I am part of the Army's Special Picnic Forces

I don't know what the right approach is here, but usually when I wear a french cuff shirt w/ no tie I just double cuff the sleeves instead of using cufflinks.

xpost haha

Well if someone calls you on that, you just tell 'em: "I'm earning money for college and learning critical job skills."

What is the general opinion on men's shirts with epaulets?

er, shoulder straps, whatever

I don't know what the right approach is here, but usually when I wear a french cuff shirt w/ no tie I just double cuff the sleeves instead of using cufflinks.

How rakish.

I need to find pants other than jeans that don't look douchey. I've just never shopped for pants since I was traumatized by lame khakis at my first job.

OTOH breaking rules to be trendy can also be disastrous

like this piece in nyt style section today

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/fashion/24CODES.htm

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/photo/2008/04/23/20080424codes/22934243.JPG

dan, i don't wear shirts without epaulets, no joke.

so no opinions on my shorts/socks dilemma?

yeah, I've done the no-link approach - I rarely button my cuffs with regular shirts anyway - but cuff-poppage can be a problem

Dan, I like if they're not looking too planned and starched -- I think the indie schmindies have had the "short-sleeved with epaulets" for long enough and now they should go to men with actual shoulders to put in them.

i say no black socks shoes with shorts

Jon, you should get Laurel to take you out and help you buy pants.

I am the proud owner of not a single pair of khakis. Please, hold your applause.

^ but isn't breaking this rule cool? xpost

I guess I should try shopping vintage in nyc since there are enough non-fatties here to supply me with pants (vs back home)

jordan, maybe another color sock? if you must. but black shoes + shorts is tough to pull off regardless of sock color

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/04/24/fashion/24codes01-190.jpg

!

Army Special Picnic Forces sound awesome

Epaulets = need to instigate an "only on shirts that really call for it." If it's a bit of a loose, worky, boxy shirt that you honestly might wear while on an archaeological dig in a desert, the kind that might also have the button and strap to keep a sleeve rolled up, then awesome-- but they seem to be sticking unnecessary epaulets on inappropriate fitted shirts these days, which is just plain weird. I've bought two different shirts lately that required removing them.

If it's a bit of a loose, worky, boxy shirt that you honestly might wear while on an archaeological dig in a desert,

I just said this to dan m! "i think i'd like to see the sort of safari shirt with LONG SLEEVES and eps come back but as a workshirt sort of thing.
not some hi-fashun version."

all my epaulet shirts are long sleeves (rolled up), except for my Air Force shirt.

guess i'll pack some extra shoes in my lil' suitcase.

http://banditosbanditosbanditos.typepad.com/weblog/WindowsLiveWriter/i%20wish%20i%20had%20epaulets%20like%20these.jpg

fringed epaulets comeback trail

^^ would rock that look

Re Gabbneb pics: For a split sec I thght that was ERIC FUCKING NIES. Then I remembered he turned into a total hippie.

My dad is an archaeologist and I haven't seen him wear those shirts! But srsly that is pretty much my take on it too. I will stick to the old army type shirts in that category.

xp hahaha that's why I clarified and said shoulder straps. the fringe would be pretty sweet tho.

haha nath I was trying to think who that looked like from way back when

so no opinions on my shorts/socks dilemma?

-- Jordan, Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:57 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

dont wear socks at all or, if smell is an issue, wear those real low cut ones

altho this also depends on what shoes yr wearing

wait epaulettes are hot

maybe not the fringed ones

http://www.ropesport.com.au/images/eric_cross_small.jpg

He's trying to make his boobies appear larger. Teehee.

I find this the most dreadful thing: those shiny long shorts. B.A.R.F.

Also, he's not wearing SOXORS! Hygiene problem and, well, it looks fugly.

do you have low socks in europe?

My boss can totally pull off the button-down shirt-tucked-into-jeans look and he's no fashion expert (he also has a pair of iridescent pants, I shit you not), so much so that I've started copying him against my better instincts.

I think it's hard for guys to avoid looking like a douche when the men's sections at every store you go to are so pitiful. Then again, I got the queer gene but the fashion-sense gene that so often goes along with it escaped me, so what do I know?

button down shirt into jeans makes me look too "crotchy"

whatever happened to feeling shabby? what is he wearing now?

multiple xpost Ah fek, didn't think of that. :-( I have yet to find'em here. :-(

I have to admit, I am totally good with slim preppy / tennisy shorts at this point. But I think this has to do with not wearing shorts for a decade and then reaching an age at which, if you're going to wear shorts, they had kinda better look like they're purpose-driven shorts, not "30-year-old who bums around in cargo shorts" shorts. (Classic purposes for adult males to wear shorts = athletics, "summering")

Button-down tucked into jeans is totally pull-offable but only if you are SUAVE and MANLY and built just triangularly right -- like I can recall Pierce freaking Brosnan pulling it off in the late 90s but I do not even bother aspiring to being able to do any such thing myself. (Having an ass is a drawback on this one)

i just watched charlie wilson's war and the whole movie tom hanks wears his suspenders under epaulets on his shirt like this

http://media.komotv.com/images/071219_Wilsons_War.jpg

im guessing he gave up when a bunch of weirdos told him there was no way he could ever wear shorts and get laid xxp

That's kinda what they're for! I did that once and it was WAY convenient but I felt ... dirty. Like I wanted a sign that said "hey it's not my THING or anything, I just want to keep the suspenders in line"

Button-down tucked into jeans is totally pull-offable

yeah, it can be done, and yeah being a little bit buff probably helps. Also, wear some nice classic-looking jeans, no whiskers por favor, and don't fuck it up by wearing tennis shoes or something. Oxford shirt, oxford shoes.

hahahahha deej

My husband's friend looks great with a shirt in his jeans. But the jeans is ironed and so's his shirt. And he's slim. Otherwise: dud.

we talked about tucking in another thread a while back and I think it depends on the cut of the shirt, where the waistline is on your pants, and also how thin you are, really.

i liked the suspenders under epaulets thing, id just never seen it before

in other words: be thin, have a non-boxy shirt, and don't wear your pants up to your tits and it looks alright

haha

"Be perfect and have perfect clothes"

if your shirt is boxy wear a jacket to hide it

i have a spring jacket w/ epulets and it looks dope

i wish i could tuck in my shirts but im not really a skinny dude, its just that untucked unless the shirt is really well-fitted it reminds me a little too much of a bro's uniform on a nite on the town. at least my dress shoes arent that ugly stub-toed shiney shit that striped shirters have been rocking for years now

i was going to say i never tuck in with jeans, but i guess that's not quite true (this is a pretty old pic though):

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/120/311477410_a73f3b1e4f.jpg

^^ The Day I Met a Senator ^^

http://www.jeanspassion.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/twisted-seam-flare-jeans.jpg

felicity are these by true Religion? They win my award for 'stupidest looking jeans that consistently cost $200."

epaulets are extra sexy, btw, and I have thought so as long as I can remember.

There really isn't anything wrong with tucking your shirt in. Its when neither the shirt nor the thing that its being tucked into don't fit that's the problem.

And this, of course, refers exclusively to Oxford shirts. T-shirts should never be tucked in, and polo shirts should only be tucked in when one is (a) working at Best Buy or (b) playing polo.

Abbott: Don't know.

wtf is with the inseam

I am wearing epaulets on a olive drab linen short sleeve shirt. the arms have a loop & button to roll the sleeves up EVEN MORE. Size XS, from Uniqlo

i'm wearing a cheap time t-shirt and a pair of levis. my wardrobe has become polarized to point where i'm either in a tshirt and jeans or a suit. nothing in between anymore.

$200 corn holders?!

I like that, hi and low and forget the in-between. In between lies madness and "corporate casual".

those are true religion jeans, they look absurd on men.

i have a jacket with epaulets, I just bought it. it's a paper cloth and denim jacket. it's the most stylee thing I own.

although yesterday I was concerned that it was only a shade away from being a SGT Pepper jacket

True Religion always has that fucked-up cruves-to-the-back seam that makes them look like they came from Factory 2 U.

http://www.truereligionbrandjeans.com/store/productimages/regular/1134_death_valley_medium.jpg
$240

http://www.truereligionbrandjeans.com/store/ProductImages/details/904504607_b.jpg
$319

http://www.truereligionbrandjeans.com/store/ProductImages/details/904504050_close.jpg
%287

;_;

That poor butt! I feel so bad for it being trapped in there.

that's sartorial equivalent of division street.

my next job is full of jimmy the mod-dress-alikes

lol @ abbott freeing the fannys

MY EYES

Pretty much any pair of jeans that has decided it wants to be cooler than just jeans and therefore added some bit of flair = ARGH

%319 pair are the worsterest jeans I’ve ever laid my big blue eyes on. Not to mention the shoes blruuuuugh

EXCEPT in the proper context of hip-hop fashion -- then you can have Tweety Bird crawling up your leg and possibly not look horrible

most so narrow as to be nonexistent context ever

http://www.sohob2b.com/uploadfiles/evisu_j_39.jpg

fuck evisu

Dude, nabisco, yeah, and it's always at price extremes! ie some $19 jeans with a million fucking rhinestones and gold lame' and fake rips and worn hems OR $349 for the same thing. (Is this just a byproduct of being next to Texas & Mexico or does this happen everywhere?)

(wimmins' jeans here)

Italian fashion - has a lot to answer for.

I can understand the price extremes, honestly. With $19 it's not like you can offer awesome subtleties of construction, so it's like ... here's a bunch of decorative "fashion flair" on it, you'll still look cool! (Nobody wants to wear inexpensive clothes that looks PLAIN and inexpensive.) And with really expensive jeans, I think a fear develops that awesome construction just doesn't justify anything beyond the first $150 (for most people), so they need to be like "LOOK AT ME, I am that special pair of jeans that costs a billion dollars."

Actually unobtrusive "awesome construction" will still sell jeans up through the $250 point or so, but you start crossing over into self-conscious "flair" pretty quickly

F*** that. Jeans are workwear.

No way. a good pair of jeans are cut in the same way as a good suit and more durable.

and yet, they remain jeans.

if you paid more than $80 with tax for a pair of jeans you are a straight-up chump

*twiddles thumbs, waiting for inevitable Steve Shasta beatdown*

i've only bought expensive jeans once ($130 or something) but they are so much better than any other jeans i've ever owned.

x post... jean indeed, good ones.

i just re-up with new gap jeans every year or so. i need some better non-jeans pants though.

NO buttons without a buttonhole.
NO pockets to nowhere.
NO printed-on stripes.

too true... no embroidery too!!!

NO buttons without a buttonhole.
NO pockets to nowhere.
NO printed-on stripes.

Now THESE I can live with.

i always get pissed when i see an awesome looking casual dress shirt and then turn it around and see a pink dragon fire-breathing RVCA on the back

it's even worse than when i see an awesome design on a shirt and i realize it's a panic at the disco tee

oh, PRINTED stripes, that took me a second

i always get pissed when i see an awesome looking casual dress shirt and then turn it around and see a pink dragon fire-breathing RVCA on the back

-- omar little, Thursday, 24 April 2008 22:37 (29 minutes ago) Link

ugh yeah seems to happen more and more

I like those jeans for rich skater kids. They fit well without being like, vacuum sealed, and they aren't ... weird in the ass/crotch regions like Levis get.

As far as dress pants go, I still haven't been able to find nice straight leg pants that aren't a) baggy as fuck or b) fruity (see: H&M's low-rise, zipper-busting bulge pants).

they've got stencils of apples and cherries on them?

what are good attributes of polo shirts

for $200

We should do a little fashion IRAC with burt as a prelaw exercise.

Issue:

RULE:

Application of the RULE:

Conclusion:

Polo shirts can be worn in edgy Mike Skinner contexts.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515m3O%2Bsi4L._SS400_.jpg

I tuck in about 2 inches of the very front of my deep v when I'm wearing my ELO belt buckle.

Imagine meeting El Tomboto! I think he's laughing at that picture, that thing. Good for him!

That guy has obviously mastered the rules of fashion and knows when to break them. It's kind of a good Hunter S. Thompson age-appropriate look. I think Tombot could pull it off.

xp

I tuck in about 2 inches of the very front of my deep v when I'm wearing my ELO belt buckle.

-- Spencer Chow, Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:36 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

^^ that's the Georgia Tuck

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515m3O%2Bsi4L._SS400_.jpg
pictures of people who are not grady

For a couple weeks when I was 14 or 15, I would do that slight Spencer-style tuck in the front only -- where you're not so much even "tucking" as just propping the shirt behind your belt -- and even my mom was all "you look like a girl, cut it out."

The passing of time has vindicated me on that one, I think

haha xpost: if only I could have told her "IT'S CALLED A 'GEORGIA TUCK,' MOM"

It's a good look.

http://www.layitlow.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=399998

Yes, it's very secretive and undocumented on the internet. You heard it here first (after ILBB).

I should admit that as of the early 1990s in southern Colorado it was totally a thing girls did, usually to allow them to wear big t-shirts and tiny cut-off jean shorts at the same time (hot summers and whatnot)

I was doing it manly-style, though, and not wearing short shorts

P.S. I would imagine the best way to get an image of this is an extensive Google image search for the string "Matthew McConaghey," yes?

Why would you want to do that?

cause he was totally awesome in dragon breath or whatever

mad tru

if i had one hundred dollars to spend on a new 'going out' shirt/pants combo, how might i best spend it?

90-100% on good pants. NEVER wear an all-new outfit.

p.s. i like brown plaid pants

i like penguin shirts
http://www.penguinclothing.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/18SW0114-228.jpg
http://www.penguinclothing.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/18SW0114-2282.jpg

the woven ones

~*~nice~*~. Would smash.

Tops should NEVER be dressier than your pants.
Pants should NEVER be dressier than your shoes.

what should i wear to get dinner and what should i get?

Wear a White Sox jersey.

I think the spirit of the thread is to propose and scrutinize fashion "rules" for men. The readership is already in such a narrow band of hipness, that's why it's intersting.

Sombrero, mexican food.

ftw

It would be very useful and enjoyable to have updated men's views of women's fashion on the sister thread:

Help me to understand the rules of fashion, as appied to women

the correct answer would have been "something with a hood because you're gonna get rained on motherfucker."

fuck me.

aww.

I just spent like $250 at eddie bauer and levi's without leaving my desk.
Thanks, thread.

http://www.swell.com/jump.jsp?itemID=7619&itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID=7619&rel=C&relid=6940&path=1%2C2%2C4%2C14%2C191

^ i bought those, but for a lot less than that

he correct answer would have been "something with a hood because you're gonna get rained on motherfucker."

dude, a sombrero would have been *perfect*. Unless (I know it's unlikely) you don't own one.

I wen to church with a guy who shaved a Volcom stone into his chest hair.

makes me look too "crotchy"

no such thing

felicity there is an exception to

Pants should NEVER be dressier than your shoes.

and that is, if the difference in dressiness is greater than a certain degree, then it is fine; i.e. pinstriped dress pants and black adidas

^So busted; that's YOUR m.o., Hand. Also the Dr. Who wardrobe department.

The real exception to the rule is the luxe top with the Cheap Monday jeans and jealous-inducing shoes.

felicity is cash sitta for most of this thread most of the time y/n?

y

felicity strikes fear in my heart.

Dearest felicity,

whilst I agree that solid colour tanktops make you look like a douche who probably thinks deck shoes are a good idea fair-isle tank tops not unlike the one in the photo elmo posted are a must for the natty gentleman.

yrs,

Ed

Pants should NEVER be dressier than your shoes.

I think this is bunk e.g. cords and trousers are, probably without exception, dressier than trainers but... trainers look good with cord / trousers.

Otherwise your stuck wearing jeans if you want to wear trainers and who wants to wear jeans?!

Daerest Ed,

You are one of the few men who does not look like Captain Massengill, Il Douche in said item. Others may feel the need to proceed with more caution.

yrs,

s
x

your / you're gah