Racist friends: C or D?

ok, that's exaggerating, but still. no one wants that band to give moral lectures.

of course, that story's nothing next to the time i talked to this very nice, soft-spoken girl who told me she didn't like funk or rap because "we should stick to our type of music, and africans should stick to theirs."

anyway, the latest harper's has a great essay on race and the origins of humans, btw. i'll see if i can find it online.

on the bus a few days ago a white redneck was apparently giving attitude to a black guy (i didn't hear what the redneck said), who then lunged at him violently and shouted "you call me n***er again i fuck your shit up."

and last week in the swimming pool one of my (white) neighbors felt the need to point out that the two gentlemen who jumped out from under a car and attacked her friend were black. that one's not so bad i guess, but i sorta wanted to call her out on it.

when they hate white people?

I dunno, Hurting, I would have a real problem keeping any type of social contact with anyone who said things like that, no matter who they are, or where they come from.

I wouldn't be ugly about it, but I would explain to them exactly why their racist views were so profoundly fucked to me, and then I'd see what their reaction was.

I have a friend who was in a similar situation, suddenly, at dinner. Someone had been complaining about a friend who was tight with his money and a French girl at the table goes "ah! he's worse than a Jew." This is at a Jewish girl's house, eating a Jewish girl's food, for what it's worth. My friend, the Jewish girl, turns to her and says "you know, that's a very offensive thing to say." The reply was "yes, but it's true." At this point my friend is having a hard time stopping the alien from bursting out of her own skull and vaporising the French girl with white-hot death beams that shoot from its eyes, but calmly says "that's a very offensive stereotype about Jewish people." Her boyfriend tries to make reassuring noises, saying "ye, but you know, we are French, and in France people say things like this." My friend says "people say these things about Jews in every country in the world." Up to which the French girl helpfully pipes: "But it's true! After World War II we did a lot for the Jews, very much, more than many other countries. But the Jews just kept wanting more and more..." My friend rose from the table and went in the other room. Her boyfriend followed her. She told him, "I don't want to make a scene. We're having dinner here. I'm going to be very courteous for the rest of the evening. But I don't ever want to see her again. Not in my house, not at a party, never."

no, but we do have those red horns above our ears!

gawd bless amerika.

xpost

As it turned out, I didn't have to, because later that day she was fired for a completely unrelated act of moronic stupidity. Oh well.

Am I the only one here who thinks this is one of the funniest things since "I can't make my face turn into a heart!"?

What's really funny too is that one of the people keeps telling the same goddamn story about how when she was working (at Toys R Us), this one black woman complained about she's being treated and said "It's because I'm black isn't it." You know what, knowing this girl, it probably WAS because the customer was black.

Am I the only one here who thinks this is one of the funniest things since "I can't make my face turn into a heart!"?

it's pretty baffling.

It's still mostly gross, but definitely way cuter than the native version.

While I'm writing this I'm absent mindedly playing with some change and did you know there's new nickels! No one told me about this.

Yeah, wops vs spics vs polacks = cute central

Not liking indians is a deal breaker, yes, but I can't stand indian music or food. Especially indian desserts. The fuck is going on there? It's like eating an air freshener.

We don't all have to like each other, but we do have to treat each other like people. Anyone who doesn't has already taken themselves out of society and should not be taken seriously as a human being. The moment someone tells you their racist opinions is the moment they announce to you that they are a sociopath. Step away.

Oh, I've been. I overstated, really. I like Indian food. But God, those desserts are unholy.

kenan you still have not had indian desserts, dude.

this is the most RASCIST thing I have ever read. Have you never had kheer (sp?)? It is not like eating an air freshener.

Extremely sure.

A very good friend of mine is having a bit of a birthday bash on Saturday (just a quiet one, a few friends, some food etc) and it's Mexican themed. I don't know mexican food too well, so I'm up for trying all kinds of tasty stuff. I'm having a go at making tortillas and my gf is doing some kind of tasty salsa.

Now, some of our friends have decided that dressing up as Mexicans would be a fun thing to do. I've raised the point that it might not be cool, which were met with the "it's just a bit of fun!" comeback. I won't be dressing up, cos my spidy-sense is going off.

All of these friend in this group are absurdly smart, liberal, guardian-reading lefties (UK-based) so I can't quite wrap my head round why they would think dressing up as Mexicans would be cool. I'm sure they would never countenance blacking up or dressing as a British colonial, so why are Mexicans thought of differently?

Or is it because, being British, what is thought of as racism bends depending on what's going on? So Apu or Hermes made me feel a little uncomfortable with the odd stereotypes, but clearly it was entirely OK in the US. Maybe Indians are to the US as Mexicans are to the UK?

Or maybe my friends are all racists and just do a good job at hiding it the rest of time.

I think you should dress as a non-stereotypical Mexican and go "Ah-a, I've made you think, haven't I?" all night.

They probably just mean they're all just going to show up wearing Morrissey tshirts. Nbd.

Or maybe they'll all be popping out of their tops like Salma Hayek.

xp Ha! The last thing I want to do is to launch into some smug anti-racist diatribe tomorrow, that's a definite nagl. It's more trying to work out how these behaviors don't even register as being maybe a problem, especially with this generally socially-conscious group.

Although it would be lol to turn up in a suit and say "You said to come as a Mexican so I've come as Mexican president Felipe Calderón."

Ha! The last thing I want to do is to launch into some smug anti-racist diatribe tomorrow But if you do, at least make sure you're not wearing a Morrissey t-shirt.

This always strikes me as crazy. The outcry about Ashton Kutcher dressing up as an "Indian" happened at the same time as there were train adverts on UK television with a white guy larking around in a sombrero pretending to be Mexican. I can see how it might be easier for people to have their stereotypes challenged when there's pretty much a 100% chance they'll run into actual Indians on a day-to-day basis, which might not be the case for Mexicans in the UK, but surely at some basic level they understand that it's the same thing going on.

This is exactly it, this weird cultural black-spot where despite the UK being reasonably culturally sensitive, somehow mexican stereotypes don't count. It's almost as if it's barely a culture.

ha I just remembered one response when I voiced my concerns - "Well, you don't have to go all-out if you don't want to, just wear a poncho and a fake moustache if you're worried."

Possibly easier to buy/hire "Mexican" outfits for fancy dress purposes than, I don't know, Argentinian or Indonesian or whatever

It's almost as if it's barely a culture.

I assume people think it's like dressing up as a pirate or something

I guess anti-Mexican racism isn't really a thing over here because there aren't many Mexicans around, so yeah, it's like pirates or something.

Interesting section on suppression of Speedy Gonzales cartoons in the Wikipedia entry.

Maybe I'm wrong to say anti-Mexican racism isn't really a thing. I wouldn't claim that Mexicans wouldn't face any racial discrimination. I guess I just meant that there's no real history of I dunno, particular power dynamics at play.

The cartoons you are about to see are products of their time. They may depict some of the ethnic and racial prejudices that were commonplace in American society. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. While the following does not represent the WB view of society, these cartoons are being presented as they were originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as to claim these prejudices never existed.

How do you "dress up like a Mexican?" Like a mariachi? Pancho Villa?

My sister (who lives in the UK) notices that no one makes a point of ever pronouncing Spanish words correctly (jalapeno with the hard j, for example). She's also convinced she could make a mint opening the Taco Bell in Leeds.

Don't hear people pronouncing jalapeno with a hard J but nobody pronounces the N correctly. My wife takes the piss out of me for pronouncing taco, nacho etc with a short A.

My dad spends a lot of time in Spain and still says "jalapeno" with the hard J. I used to say tortiller so I can't... say anything

How do you "dress up like a Mexican?" Like a mariachi? Pancho Villa?

Maybe as janitors, gang members, or pregnant teens.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/XicanoPwr/santaclara.jpg

yeah, see that's not a thing in the UK.

I will happily file that under "racist."

http://dcentric.wamu.org/files/2011/10/culture5-e1319744848588.jpg

There ya fuckin' go!^

You should dress up like the guy holding the picture.

and hold a picture of your friends.

xp Attempting non-engish pronounciation is a rare occurance in the UK tho. Nobody says "chorizo" without pronouncing the z, for instance.

Huh? You're supposed to pronounce the z.

How do you pronounce "chorizo" without the z?

what? what do you say, "chori-zed-o"?

chor-ee-tho

Apparently that's a difference between Mexican Spanish and Spanish Spanish.

http://www.forvo.com/word/chorizo/

Racism only being an issue when people in power use it display it against those who don't does become a bit tricky with something like this, is my point, I guess. I'd see no real problem with a party in which people dressed up as stereotypical French, with Breton shirts and strings of onions.

Does the lack of a history of substantial Mexican immigration to the UK make it OK, or does the fact that we're a much richer nation make that irrelevant?

xp Most brits pronounce it "chor-ritz-so" with a strong emphasis on the ritz. It's not just noticable like the Mexican pronounciation, it's proper ramped-up.

Is it that being Mexican doesn't (so far as I'm aware) have any negative cultural associations like it does in the US? So in the US there's the whole lazy scrounging alcoholic illegal immigrant thing going on, while the UK has it's own persecuted minorities for idiots to rally against? And so the cultural signifiers (sombrero, moustache etc) don't carry the same baggage as they do in the UK? Is it as simple as that?

Maybe. Certainly Mexicans in the UK I imagine are minority even by minority standards. Just as in the US there aren't a lot of, say, specifically West African or Pakistani stereotypes floating around (afaict). But then, the UK still has rampant issues with blackface, so I'd still chalk any sombrero/mustache/bandolero stuff up to ignorance.

I have family in Australia, and somehow they managed to get a Mexican nanny.

y wife takes the piss out of me for pronouncing taco, nacho etc with a short A.

Wait, how does she say taco, then? Like, tarrrr-co?

And yep, NotEnough, I think that's pretty much exactly it.

tayco

I'm confused now, how are you supposed to say taco? I've always thought it was just tacko, am I egregiously incorrect?

Tah-co

Or perhaps taw-co is a better phoneticism?

Is it that being Mexican doesn't (so far as I'm aware) have any negative cultural associations like it does in the US? So in the US there's the whole lazy scrounging alcoholic illegal immigrant thing going on, while the UK has it's own persecuted minorities for idiots to rally against? And so the cultural signifiers (sombrero, moustache etc) don't carry the same baggage as they do in the UK? Is it as simple as that?

i'm not sure -- think of the Top Gear racism furore a little while back, when Richard Hammond (commonly and erroneously thought to be less of a cockfarmer than Jeremy cockfarming Clarkson) used exactly that stereotype to insult a Mexican car, viz:
"Mexican cars are just going to be lazy, feckless, flatulent, overweight, leaning against a fence asleep looking at a cactus with a blanket with a hole in the middle on as a coat."
(source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-12361790)

jesus fuck, I forgot abou that/

Tah-co makes more sense for the shortening to be regional pronunciation, taw-co makes it sound more like I've just been pronouncing it completely wrong.

xposts UGH fuck Top Gear.

i'd almost forgotten it too until this thread reminded me.

and now all i can think about is punching richard hammond in the face

Maybe you should go to the party dressed as Richard Hammond.

alan davies does it as part of his routine: a while ago a friend and i got into an entertaining twitter spat with him over it, which included him setting his followers on her. the high point, easily, was when SEVERAL of them called her a gringo under the impression that it was a derogatory slur for mexicans ;_; ;_; ;_; ;_;

https://twitter.com/team_pgtips/statuses/84660971905363968

;_; ;_; ;_;

dear lord.

Lex, have a look at who that guy's last tweet was to

haw. well, obv

This is a tah-co:

http://s2.boohee.cn/house/upload_food/2011/1/22/749831_1295648362.jpg

This is a taw-co:

http://www.mordantmanor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/taco-ritz.jpg

I wonder if the Chinese ever have parties where they dress up like North Koreans.

my friend can't stop giggling over some scene on "The IT Crowd" where a character said "tay-pahss" for tapas

http://akrainforest10.pbworks.com/f/1271288592/tapir1.jpg

u rang?

That is quite possibly the cutest baby tapir I have seen.

For all that a lot of people in the UK claim that they don't really know enough about Mexicans to be properly bigoted towards them, I've been impressed at the stereotypes they still manage to dredge up.

Baby tapir

the important thing to remember is that themed / fancy dress parties are unforgiveable and all parties invoved must be subject to the same fate as a government informer in the sinaloa cartel

You won't be saying that when I do my 'album covers' party and you see me in my Tarkus costume.

what if a load of malevolent scallies gatecrash your party and you are powerless to stop them because they claim to be imitating a northern uproar lp cover?

you see people never think of these things

Ooh, album covers party! Can I come to?

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/rocks/ZZ_Top_-_El_Loco.jpg

lol PP

I would totally come as Whipped Cream & Other Delights, you might want to protect yr sofa

op: yes it is bad taste / racist.

y'know i kind of imagine that Top Gear racism is just like their tip of the hat to their asshole American fans. god that programme is like a magnet for cunts.

I used to wait tables with a black guy who would often ask coworkers "Te gusta el chorizo de chocolate?" and " "Quieres un chorizo de chocolate?" referring to his penis.

http://busblog.tonypierce.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/icecreamtruckdancerssj1.jpg

NotEnough, how was the party?

What I came here to post originally was more relevant.

When I was visiting my mom in small-ish town in North Carolina, we ran out of gas on a street near the railroad tracks that in some areas divide the town between black/poor and white/rich/not-as-poor. I coasted into the parking lot of a machine shop in the white area intending to ask for a ride to a gas station. Instead of a ride, a nice guy in his 20s gave me several gallons of gas from the shop's can. We chatted and I offered him money, but he refused, which was awesome, especially since gas is so expensive these days. As he put the lid back on the gas can, he said, in the same friendly way as he said everything, "Y'all are lucky you ran out here instead of a few blocks down in East Spencer. It gets real dark down there."

I was appalled and my mouth opened and closed like a fish's. What the fuck was I supposed to say to that? It was such a huge surprise. When any other stranger - cab driver or someone on the bus - gets racist with me, I usually tell them I don't want to hear it, but this guy had been exceptionally cool theretofore, giving me enough gas to take the gauge almost to 1/4 tank and saving my ass from being stranded on a 100-degree day with my 81 year old mom. Was he not also racist against me and my mom, two Mexicans in his hood? I look Mexican, but I have no Spanish accent (though I do talk like a Northerner) but my mom has a thick accent.

I wound up just saying "Oh, yeh....it would have been a long walk in this heat...." which made no sense at all, and thanking him for the gas.

tl;dr: a nice-seeming guy gave me free gas and made me a racism-buddy against my will

So I have this long-time best friend I go way back with. Ostensibly progressive liberal Jewish white guy from the East Coast yada yada yada. Over the last few years he has exclusively pursued and dated black women, foreign and domestic, nigh obsessively. One day he joking-not-joking revealed in a conversation "I am DONE with white women. DONE." Totally grossed out upon realizing that consciously or subconsciously that's a/the reason he's now focused on black women. (n.b. I am neither white nor black, just have this really gross feeling in my gut about all this.)

So:
A) Am I over-reacting in this modern age? Is colonial white racism in dating really a thing? Is it just pretty much pointless and/or foolish to judge someone for a sexual fetish?
B) How do I keep getting through conversations with him without punching him in the face for a being a racist moron?
C) Should I just be thankful he's not one of those guys with an Asian fetish, or that he at least has the sense not to say something to my face about it? (BTW when this happens, I must go forth with the obligatory clowning.)

From the way you describe him being exasperated by white women and "done" with them, it seems like it's something different from a simple visual preference for black women. Therefore unpleasant sounding.

if you think racist friends are bad try racist family :-(

i could sing several verses of this