from wikipedia:
The Boeing 787, or Dreamliner, is a mid-sized passenger airliner currently under development by Boeing Commercial Airplanes and scheduled to enter service in 2008. It will carry between 200 and 350 passengers depending on the seating configuration, and be more fuel-efficient than earlier airliners. In addition, it will be the first major airliner to use composite material in the majority of its construction.
Features
* Twin aisle seating. * Cruise speed: 0.85 Mach (903 km/h or 561 mph at altitude) * Range of 8,500 nautical miles (15,700 km), enough to cover the Los Angeles to London or New York to Tokyo routes. * Construction materials (by weight): 61 % composite, 20 % aluminum, 11 % titanium, 8 % steel. Composite materials are significantly lighter and stronger than traditional aircraft materials, making the 787 a very light aircraft for its capabilities. By volume, the 787 will be 80 % composite. * The 787 production line will be able to finish an aircraft in as little as three days, compared to 11 days for the 737. * Larger windows than any other civil air transport, with a higher eye level, so passengers can see the horizon, with liquid crystal display (LCD)-based "auto-dimming" to reduce cabin glare and maintain transparency. * Light-emitting diode (LED) cabin lighting will be used instead of fluorescent tubes. * Cabin air provided by electrically driven compressors (no engine bleed air). * A version of Ethernet (AFDX) will be used to transmit data between the flight deck and aircraft systems. * Bleedless turbofans, allowing elimination of superheated air conduits normally used for de-icing, aircraft power, and other functions. These systems are to be replaced with an all-electrical system. * Higher humidity in the passenger cabin because of the use of composites (which don't corrode). * The internal pressure will be increased, to the equivalent of 6000 feet (1800 m) altitude versus 8000 (2400 m) on conventional aircraft. This will significantly improve passenger comfort.
more pics here, including some very wacky retrofuturistic interior design concepts that i'm sure got nixed in the end.
like this:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/7e7/images/k62869.jpg
― the urban heat island effect (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 16 July 2005 07:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― the urban heat island effect (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 16 July 2005 07:53 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.smarttravelasia.com/AirbusVsBoeing.htm
― the urban heat island effect (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 16 July 2005 08:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― aqua teen hongro force (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 16 July 2005 20:13 (eighteen years ago) link
― teeny (teeny), Saturday, 16 July 2005 23:58 (eighteen years ago) link
― aqua teen hongro force (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 July 2005 00:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Sunday, 17 July 2005 00:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― Thermo Thinwall (Thermo Thinwall), Sunday, 17 July 2005 00:46 (eighteen years ago) link
― Orbit (Orbit), Sunday, 17 July 2005 00:56 (eighteen years ago) link
The Dreamliner looks gorgeous. I'm looking forward to it. Although I have to say that name is pretty lame. I prefer the simplicity of 787.
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 01:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― aqua teen hongro force (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 July 2005 01:23 (eighteen years ago) link
― jim wentworth (wench), Sunday, 17 July 2005 01:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 17 July 2005 01:36 (eighteen years ago) link
Thermo, on BA in Business class, every other seat faces backwards. I don't know of any other airline with backwards seats, though. Supposedly facing backwards is safer if you crash on the runway...
― lyra (lyra), Sunday, 17 July 2005 01:38 (eighteen years ago) link
xpost: the 757 >>>>>>>> any other boeing aircraft in commercial use.
― aqua teen hongro force (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 July 2005 01:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― aqua teen hongro force (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 July 2005 01:41 (eighteen years ago) link
― lyra (lyra), Sunday, 17 July 2005 01:41 (eighteen years ago) link
This plane is smaller than the 747.
The best Boeing is the 777, me thinks.
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 02:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 02:30 (eighteen years ago) link
― aqua teen hongro force (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 July 2005 02:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― aqua teen hongro force (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 July 2005 03:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Sunday, 17 July 2005 03:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― aqua teen hongro force (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 July 2005 03:09 (eighteen years ago) link
probably not.
― aqua teen hongro force (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 July 2005 03:10 (eighteen years ago) link
― aqua teen hongro force (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 July 2005 03:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― ryan_d, Sunday, 17 July 2005 03:46 (eighteen years ago) link
Will the future of commercial air travel be point-to-point on medium-sized, highly efficient airplanes (let's hope so), or hub-to-hub on massive, economy-of-scale utilizing planes (let's hope not)?
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 04:23 (eighteen years ago) link
The A380 is pretty efficient, as planes go, as well, however that efficiency does depend on them being fully loaded, that goes for all planes.
― Ed (dali), Sunday, 17 July 2005 06:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 06:26 (eighteen years ago) link
The 787 is Boeing's all new replacement for the 757/767 series of smaller long distance planes. In response to the efficiency games, Airbus has put out a spoiler plane in the form of the A350 derivative (90% new design though) of the A330. Basically it comes from two different views of where air travel is going.
The dreamliner is a point to point airliner, ideal for smaller loading from smaller airports, it could easily be the spring board for inter-continental budget airlines, if it is as efficient as claimed.
The A350 is less radical than the dreamliner, but still a very advanced aircraft with heavy use of composites and should have comparable fuel economies with the 787 mainly through cramming in a few extra seats.
The A380 is about maximising capacity on congested routes from congested airports, Europe-East Coast, Tokyo-Osaka, although it's also been taken by Airlines such as Emirates and Singapore who are locked into hubs in tiny nation states and need to maximise number of seats on planes. You better beleive that someone is going to cram 800 seats on one of these things for the Tokyo Osaka run.
If the A380 is a success then Boeing can always revive it's 747-800 stretched version of the 747.
They'll be space for both in the market as they are going after different niches.
― Ed (dali), Sunday, 17 July 2005 06:45 (eighteen years ago) link
here's hoping. the market is definitely there for that. north america -> asia will do outstandingly well.
― jody heatherton (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 July 2005 06:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 06:54 (eighteen years ago) link
Someone needs to be working on powering these planes on vegetable oil/ethanol blends.
― Ed (dali), Sunday, 17 July 2005 06:59 (eighteen years ago) link
lol
― ambrose (ambrose), Sunday, 17 July 2005 08:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 08:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ed (dali), Sunday, 17 July 2005 08:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 08:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Sunday, 17 July 2005 09:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 09:36 (eighteen years ago) link
― jody heatherton (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 17 July 2005 09:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Sunday, 17 July 2005 10:31 (eighteen years ago) link
why not just stay on yr continent, then you can use the best ever form of transport: train.
― ambrose (ambrose), Sunday, 17 July 2005 11:36 (eighteen years ago) link
Clearly the best advancement in international transport would be to build superfast elevators through the center of the Earth. Something like a pneumatic tube.
http://zapatopi.net/pneumatic/beachsub2.jpg
http://zapatopi.net/pneumatic/beachsub.jpg
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 12:05 (eighteen years ago) link
http://www.uboatarchive.net/JtOpsCtr11.jpgCraig keeps a close eyehttp://www.uboatarchive.net/JtOpsCtr6.jpgJenny updates the big chart
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 12:10 (eighteen years ago) link
its often said that safety occupies this top spot, but it seems to actually occupy maybe....10th place, priority-wise?
― ambrose (ambrose), Sunday, 17 July 2005 12:19 (eighteen years ago) link
― sgs (sgs), Sunday, 17 July 2005 12:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― Super Cub (Debito), Sunday, 17 July 2005 13:01 (eighteen years ago) link
― lyra (lyra), Sunday, 17 July 2005 15:11 (eighteen years ago) link
― Jimmy Mod Is Sick of Being The Best At Everything (ModJ), Sunday, 17 July 2005 15:14 (eighteen years ago) link
Pretty poorly
Have you ever seen a graphite hockey stick break?
Not really the same stuff. The design the composite to have the mechanical properties for the job.
― Ed (dali), Sunday, 17 July 2005 15:39 (eighteen years ago) link
JBR OTM re: smaller planes, especially in mid-size/small markets. 80% of my flights are on 50-seat regional jets or props, and another 15% are on DC-9s, which aren't really modern aircraft in any sense of the word. Only place I'll ever see these super-planes is across the tarmac while connecting at O'Hare.
― Jeff Wright (JeffW1858), Monday, 18 July 2005 01:49 (eighteen years ago) link
Apparently the regional carriers have much less restrictive labor contracts than the majors, so their overhead is lower. The regionals are probably closer to what the future industry will look like.
I do a lot of inter-continental flying, because I live in a foreign country. So I get to fly on 777s all the time (for 13 hours).
― Super Cub (Debito), Monday, 18 July 2005 02:47 (eighteen years ago) link
What a half-billion dollar A380 gets you: http://gizmodo.com/5279529/inside-the-485+million-airbus-a380-flying-palace
― Carroll Shelby Downard (Elvis Telecom), Friday, 5 June 2009 09:55 (fifteen years ago) link
My dad works on the 787 line and says it's the most fubar-ed project he's worked on in 30 years at Boeing. Apparently, instead of building parts in house as they usually do, they sourced out all the individual components and their getting back all these parts from seperate companies that don't fit together. The guys on the line like him have the unenviable task of trying to assemble all these non-matching parts. He blames the fact that the current upper management are all business people without aerospace experience who don't know anything about the realities of building airplanes.
― a hater (The Reverend), Friday, 5 June 2009 10:01 (fifteen years ago) link
the "jenny updates the big chart" photo upthread is ridiculously cool.
― linda emangalitsa (get bent), Friday, 5 June 2009 10:02 (fifteen years ago) link
What a A380 hard landing looks like: http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/EAAAirVenture2009_AirbusA380_HardLanding_200850-1.html
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 00:30 (fourteen years ago) link
Wow, do all airliners have that much flex in the wings when they touch down?
― I am moving on baby, I am moving on (Pancakes Hackman), Tuesday, 4 August 2009 00:34 (fourteen years ago) link
Meanwhile, the 787 (now delayed for the fifth time) is possibly just a mediocre aircraft
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 4 August 2009 00:39 (fourteen years ago) link
And ANOTHER delay on the 787
Boeing has discovered microscopic wrinkles in the skin of the 787's fuselage and has ordered Italian supplier Alenia Aeronautica to halt production of fuselage sections at a factory in Italy. 'In two areas on the fuselage, the structure doesn't have the long-term strength that we want,' says Boeing spokeswoman Lori Gunter. To repair the wrinkles, additional layers of carbon composite material are being added to a 787 at the South Carolina factory and twenty-two other planes must also be patched. Production of the 787 has been fraught with problems with ill-fitting parts, casting doubt on Boeing's strategy of relying on overseas suppliers to build big sections of the aircraft before assembling them at its facilities near Seattle. The 787, built for fuel efficiency from lightweight carbon composite parts, is a priority for Boeing as it struggles with dwindling orders amid the global recession. Customers had been expecting the first of the new jets in the first quarter of 2010 — nearly two years earlier than they will be delivered. The delays have cost Boeing credibility and billions of dollars in anticipated expenses and penalties. Orders for 72 planes have been canceled already this year, although Boeing still has confirmed orders for over 800 aircraft."
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 17 August 2009 07:10 (fourteen years ago) link
And perhaps inevitably, Hitler gets news that his order of 787's is going to be delayed again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF_P77VEPKA
― Elvis Telecom, Monday, 17 August 2009 07:14 (fourteen years ago) link
― Super Cub, Monday, 17 August 2009 09:13 (fourteen years ago) link
And FINALLY.
Boeing's 787 Dreamliner has taken off on its first test flight - almost two and a half years late.It had been grounded by a series of hitches, including design problems, strikes and even a shortage of bolts.Boeing has pegged its hopes for the future on the plane, which promises to be one of the most fuel-efficient in the world.It has attracted some 840 orders from all over the globe, although some have been cancelled because of the delays.Its popularity is partly thanks to its lightweight design. Made of carbon and titanium, it should reduce fuel consumption as well as save on maintenance costs.The first test flight is due to last around four hours, as the two pilots examine how the Dreamliner operates."They will essentially make sure that the airplane under normal circumstances flies the way it is supposed to," said Boeing spokesman Jim Proulx.
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:09 (fourteen years ago) link
those wings look so delicate
― voices from the manstep (brownie), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 20:15 (fourteen years ago) link
I love the way they swoop up but its going to be weird sitting in the middle of that thing because the window view will be all wing.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 15 December 2009 22:53 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm going to be pretty paranoid if I ever fly in one of these things
― 囧 (dyao), Wednesday, 16 December 2009 02:02 (fourteen years ago) link
Angus Batey on the 787
― Stockhausen's Helicopter Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Friday, 1 October 2010 01:06 (thirteen years ago) link
Anatomy of the Airbus A380 QF32 near disaster
key paragraph:
One thing needs to be kept firmly in mind. Rolls-Royce the maker of the Trent 900 engine which disintegrated knew about the faults that the current airworthiness directive concerning these engines says are likely to have caused an intense oil fire in a structural cavity in the intermediate pressure turbine area of the engine.Rolls-Royce had designed and was introducing a fix for the oil leak issues for this into the engines at its own speed. Qantas was left in the dark. It is fair to suggest that Qantas needs to review relationships with engine manufacturers in which it pays for power by-the-hour and leaves much of the maintenance and oversight of those engines to the designer and manufacturer.
Rolls-Royce had designed and was introducing a fix for the oil leak issues for this into the engines at its own speed. Qantas was left in the dark. It is fair to suggest that Qantas needs to review relationships with engine manufacturers in which it pays for power by-the-hour and leaves much of the maintenance and oversight of those engines to the designer and manufacturer.
― Stockhausen's Helicopter Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Wednesday, 17 November 2010 21:17 (thirteen years ago) link
Stuff like this reminds me why I'm increasingly antsy about flying...
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 17 November 2010 21:19 (thirteen years ago) link
not being taken for sexytime in the TSA VIP suite then?
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Wednesday, 17 November 2010 22:11 (thirteen years ago) link
Drama in the cockpit: Qantas crew faced 54 alarms
Nobody trains for chaos like this. Out the pilots' left window, far above the ocean, an engine as big as a bus had disintegrated, blasting shrapnel holes in the superjumbo's wing. And now an overwhelming flood of computer alarms was warning the pilots that critical systems might be failing.Two weeks after the pilots somehow landed their Qantas jetliner and its 450 passengers, their two-hour cockpit drama was described Thursday in an interview with The Associated Press by the vice president of the Australian and International Pilots Association."The amount of failures is unprecedented," said Richard Woodward, a fellow Qantas A380 pilot who has spoken to all five pilots. "There is probably a one in 100 million chance to have all that go wrong."But it did.Engine pieces sliced electric cables and hydraulic lines in the wing. Would the pilots still be able to fly the seven-story-tall plane?The wing's forward spar — one of the beams that attaches it to the plane — was damaged as well. And the wing's two fuel tanks were punctured. As fuel leaked out, a growing imbalance was created between the left and right sides of the plane, Woodward said.The electrical power problems prevented the pilots from pumping fuel forward from tanks in the tail. The plane became tail heavy.That may have posed the greatest risk, safety experts said. If the plane got too far out of balance, the Singapore-to-Sydney jetliner would lose lift, stall and crash.And then there was that incredible stream of computer messages, 54 in all, alerting the pilots to system failures or warning of impending failures.One warned that a ram air turbine — a backup power supply — was about to deploy, although that never did happen, Woodward said. The message was especially worrisome because the system deploys only when main power systems are lost. The smaller backup supply is able only to power vital aircraft systems.That's "the last thing you need in that kind of situation," he said.The pilots watched as computer screens filled, only to be replaced by new screenfuls of warnings, he said."I don't think any crew in the world would have been trained to deal with the amount of different issues this crew faced," Woodward said.As luck would have it, there were five experienced pilots — including three captains — aboard the plane. The flight's captain, Richard de Crespigny, was being given his annual check ride — a test of his piloting skills — by another captain. That man was himself being evaluated by a third captain. There were also first and second officers, part of the normal three-pilot team. In all, the crew had over 100 years of flying experience.De Crespigny concentrated on flying the plane, while the others dealt with the computer alarms and made announcements to the giant planeload of passengers, some of whom said they were frantically pointing to flames streaming from the engine. Working flat out, it took 50 minutes for the pilots work through all of the messages.When pilots receive safety warnings, they are supposed to check the airline's operating manual and implement specific procedures. But with so many warnings, the Qantas pilots had to sort through and prioritize the most serious problems first.It's likely that for some of the problems there were no procedures because no airline anticipates so many things going wrong at once, John Goglia, a former National Transportation Safety Board member said.Attention since the Nov. 4 incident has focused on the Airbus 380's damaged Rolls Royce engine. As many as half of the 80 engines that power A380s, the world's largest jetliners, may need to be replaced, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said Thursday. That raises the possibility of shortages that could delay future deliveries of the superjumbo.Qantas has grounded its fleet of six A380s.The drama two weeks ago still wasn't over when the pilots finally got the plane back to Singapore and the runway was in sight.Wing flaps that are used to slow the plane were inoperable. So were the landing gear doors. The pilots used gravity to lower the gear.Brake temperatures reached over 1,650 degrees Fahrenheit during the landing, causing several flat tires. If fuel leaking from the damaged wing had hit the brakes, it could have caused a fire. The pilots allowed the plane to roll almost to the end of the runway so it would be close to fire trucks that could put foam on the brakes and undercarriage.Among the other issues Woodward said the pilots faced:• When the engine failed it caught fire, but the fire suppression system was difficult to deploy.• An electrical bus — a connection between electrical devices — on the left wing failed. The plane was designed so that a second bus on the same wing or the two buses on the opposite wing would pick up the load. That didn't happen.Actually, Woodward praised the plane, saying it was a testament to its strength that it was able to continue to fly relatively well despite all the problems. But he also said it's likely reconsideration will be given to the design and location electrical wiring in the wings.
Two weeks after the pilots somehow landed their Qantas jetliner and its 450 passengers, their two-hour cockpit drama was described Thursday in an interview with The Associated Press by the vice president of the Australian and International Pilots Association.
"The amount of failures is unprecedented," said Richard Woodward, a fellow Qantas A380 pilot who has spoken to all five pilots. "There is probably a one in 100 million chance to have all that go wrong."
But it did.
Engine pieces sliced electric cables and hydraulic lines in the wing. Would the pilots still be able to fly the seven-story-tall plane?
The wing's forward spar — one of the beams that attaches it to the plane — was damaged as well. And the wing's two fuel tanks were punctured. As fuel leaked out, a growing imbalance was created between the left and right sides of the plane, Woodward said.
The electrical power problems prevented the pilots from pumping fuel forward from tanks in the tail. The plane became tail heavy.
That may have posed the greatest risk, safety experts said. If the plane got too far out of balance, the Singapore-to-Sydney jetliner would lose lift, stall and crash.And then there was that incredible stream of computer messages, 54 in all, alerting the pilots to system failures or warning of impending failures.
One warned that a ram air turbine — a backup power supply — was about to deploy, although that never did happen, Woodward said. The message was especially worrisome because the system deploys only when main power systems are lost. The smaller backup supply is able only to power vital aircraft systems.
That's "the last thing you need in that kind of situation," he said.
The pilots watched as computer screens filled, only to be replaced by new screenfuls of warnings, he said.
"I don't think any crew in the world would have been trained to deal with the amount of different issues this crew faced," Woodward said.
As luck would have it, there were five experienced pilots — including three captains — aboard the plane. The flight's captain, Richard de Crespigny, was being given his annual check ride — a test of his piloting skills — by another captain. That man was himself being evaluated by a third captain. There were also first and second officers, part of the normal three-pilot team. In all, the crew had over 100 years of flying experience.
De Crespigny concentrated on flying the plane, while the others dealt with the computer alarms and made announcements to the giant planeload of passengers, some of whom said they were frantically pointing to flames streaming from the engine. Working flat out, it took 50 minutes for the pilots work through all of the messages.
When pilots receive safety warnings, they are supposed to check the airline's operating manual and implement specific procedures. But with so many warnings, the Qantas pilots had to sort through and prioritize the most serious problems first.
It's likely that for some of the problems there were no procedures because no airline anticipates so many things going wrong at once, John Goglia, a former National Transportation Safety Board member said.
Attention since the Nov. 4 incident has focused on the Airbus 380's damaged Rolls Royce engine. As many as half of the 80 engines that power A380s, the world's largest jetliners, may need to be replaced, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said Thursday. That raises the possibility of shortages that could delay future deliveries of the superjumbo.
Qantas has grounded its fleet of six A380s.
The drama two weeks ago still wasn't over when the pilots finally got the plane back to Singapore and the runway was in sight.
Wing flaps that are used to slow the plane were inoperable. So were the landing gear doors. The pilots used gravity to lower the gear.
Brake temperatures reached over 1,650 degrees Fahrenheit during the landing, causing several flat tires. If fuel leaking from the damaged wing had hit the brakes, it could have caused a fire. The pilots allowed the plane to roll almost to the end of the runway so it would be close to fire trucks that could put foam on the brakes and undercarriage.
Among the other issues Woodward said the pilots faced:
• When the engine failed it caught fire, but the fire suppression system was difficult to deploy.
• An electrical bus — a connection between electrical devices — on the left wing failed. The plane was designed so that a second bus on the same wing or the two buses on the opposite wing would pick up the load. That didn't happen.
Actually, Woodward praised the plane, saying it was a testament to its strength that it was able to continue to fly relatively well despite all the problems. But he also said it's likely reconsideration will be given to the design and location electrical wiring in the wings.
― Stockhausen's Helicopter Quartet (Elvis Telecom), Friday, 19 November 2010 12:39 (thirteen years ago) link
Ruh roh....
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 03:29 (eleven years ago) link
All Nippon Airways (ANA) announced it was canceling Wednesday flights among its fleet of the trouble-beset Boeing 787 Dreamliner after a battery alarm signal activated on one plane, prompting an emergency landing in Japan.Flight 692, with 129 passengers, made an unscheduled landing at Takamatsu airport, airline officials said. It left Yamaguchi Ube Airport and was en route to Haneda, airline spokesman Takuya Taniguchi said.Those on board reported a burning smell in the cabin.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/15/travel/japan-dreamliner-emergency-landing/index.html
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 03:30 (eleven years ago) link
Both ANA and Japan Airlines have grounded their 787 fleet for now.
It'll probably blow over in a few weeks, as is tradition.
― You Just Haven't Formed It Yet, Babby (King Boy Pato), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 09:57 (eleven years ago) link
Not quite KBP: FAA has grounded all 787s. This might be the biggest lemon since the DC-10!
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 16 January 2013 23:44 (eleven years ago) link
NY Times today: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/business/global/deepening-crisis-for-the-dreamliner.html
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 16 January 2013 23:47 (eleven years ago) link
The 787 proves that outsourcing your design with a million different parts to hundreds of factories in a few dozen countries speaking a few dozen different languages just doesn't work as well as outsourcing running shoes and digital cameras.
Never, but never, fly on one if you have the slightest choice in the matter.
― Aimless, Thursday, 17 January 2013 02:10 (eleven years ago) link
That NYTimes article is already obsolete, here's their new one:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/business/faa-orders-grounding-of-us-operated-boeing-787s.html?pagewanted=all
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 17 January 2013 02:31 (eleven years ago) link
Never worked well for the B-1 bomber either (Rockwell and SAC took the tactic of outsourcing component manufacturing to as many congressional districts as possible)
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 17 January 2013 04:20 (eleven years ago) link
Qatar has grounded the 787 fleet as well now, so errr...
I still reckon this will blow over in the end (but I'll say months rather than weeks now), as Boeing are dealing with technical issues rather than major structural faults (not that you'd want to deal with the former in the middle of a twelve hour flight, of course).
― You Just Haven't Formed It Yet, Babby (King Boy Pato), Thursday, 17 January 2013 11:14 (eleven years ago) link
The oil seals thing on the A380 caused a similar grounding. This seems worse, not least because the Oil seals were only in one out of two engine choices whereas these battery boxes are in all 787s, and worse because the delays to the 787 programme were worse in the first place and they've already had high profile issues with outsourced components.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 17 January 2013 11:32 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah no...
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 12 July 2013 23:26 (ten years ago) link
What It's like to Fly the What It's like to Fly the $23,000 Singapore Airlines Suites Class3,000 Singapore Airlines Suites Class
In 2008, Singapore Airlines introduced their Suites Class, the most luxurious class of flying that is commercially available.The Suites were exclusive to their flagship Airbus A380, and they go beyond flat beds by offering enclosed private cabins with sliding doors that cocoon you in your own little lap of luxury. The interior was designed by French luxury yacht designer Jean-Jacques Coste and comes along with a plush soft leather armchair hand-stitched by the Italian master craftsmen Poltrona Frau. Perhaps most well-known of all, Singapore Airlines became the first and only commercial airline with a double bed in the sky.However, the experience came with a hefty price tag. With round-trip tickets costing up to S$23,000 (or US$18,400), it was completely unattainable for most people.Formerly, the only way for an average person to fly in the Suites was to take out a bank loan. And then I remembered that most of my personal net worth exists in frequent flier miles rather than cash.
The Suites were exclusive to their flagship Airbus A380, and they go beyond flat beds by offering enclosed private cabins with sliding doors that cocoon you in your own little lap of luxury. The interior was designed by French luxury yacht designer Jean-Jacques Coste and comes along with a plush soft leather armchair hand-stitched by the Italian master craftsmen Poltrona Frau. Perhaps most well-known of all, Singapore Airlines became the first and only commercial airline with a double bed in the sky.
However, the experience came with a hefty price tag. With round-trip tickets costing up to S$23,000 (or US$18,400), it was completely unattainable for most people.
Formerly, the only way for an average person to fly in the Suites was to take out a bank loan. And then I remembered that most of my personal net worth exists in frequent flier miles rather than cash.
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 2 October 2014 05:56 (nine years ago) link
can i just have the bed? the rest of it seems like overkill.
― syro gyra (get bent), Thursday, 2 October 2014 06:57 (nine years ago) link
my idea of a perfect flight is a place to sprawl out, free wifi, and a couple of strong cocktails.
― syro gyra (get bent), Thursday, 2 October 2014 06:59 (nine years ago) link
US aviation authority: Boeing 787 bug could cause 'loss of control'
A Boeing Model 787 airplane that has been powered continuously for 248 days can lose all AC electrical power due to the generator control units (GCUs) simultaneously going into failsafe mode. This condition is caused by a software counter internal to the GCUs that will overflow after 248 days of continuous power. We are issuing this airworthiness directive to prevent loss of all AC electrical power, which could result in loss of control of the airplane
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 6 May 2015 03:52 (nine years ago) link
The number 2,147,483,647 (or hexadecimal 7FFF,FFFF16) is the maximum positive value for a 32-bit signed binary integer in computing
248 days is 21,427,200 seconds, so likely they're storing the number of seconds in a 32-bit variable somewhere to represent runtime or something, and it's overflowing
good on them for not rebooting their airplane for that long, I guess
― ultimate american sock (mh), Wednesday, 6 May 2015 21:35 (nine years ago) link
Heck of a climb angle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYbM-3E11Qo
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 14 June 2015 06:17 (nine years ago) link
Airbus Will Stop Building Its A380 Superjumbo Jethttps://www.wsj.com/articles/airbus-will-stop-building-its-a380-superjumbo-jet-11550121699
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 14 February 2019 05:32 (five years ago) link
A350 is the best plane flying, at least from a sitting in it for hours at a time perspective
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 14 February 2019 10:31 (five years ago) link
I fuckin hate flying in 787s, the windows and lighting feel like a sensory distortion experiment and the seats are tiny
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Thursday, 14 February 2019 12:47 (five years ago) link
I'm a huge fan of 787s myself - have done both short haul/long haul & economy/business and really enjoyed the experience every time. The lower altitude makes a huge difference on a long haul journey.
(My economy 787 experience was with Air New Zealand and had no issue with the economy seat, even sitting next to a professional rugby league player.)
Feeling a bit sad about the A380s no longer being built, they really did feel like the future ten years ago - but if any airline is going to make any money these days, it'll be with a A350 or B787. Nothing will really every top a A380 done properly right, I suspect (for example, Etihad's A380 product has ~wooden floors~ on the top floor entrance for Business/First. Outrageous. And that's before you check out The Residence.)
― JD Salinger - King of Trainers (King Boy Pato), Thursday, 14 February 2019 12:55 (five years ago) link
i very much enjoy my transatlantic trips on the 787
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 14 February 2019 14:17 (five years ago) link
but im a tiny person so i guess i don't notice seat size so much
― J0rdan S., Thursday, 14 February 2019 14:18 (five years ago) link
all planes are bad and the aerospace industry has been suppressing carbon-negative teleportation technology for years, ama
― a surprise challenge that ended with a gunging (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 14 February 2019 14:20 (five years ago) link
I miss the Lockheed L-1011
― Josefa, Thursday, 14 February 2019 15:09 (five years ago) link
I basically am only on 737s in the ordinary course of events these days, though I suppose it's possible I'd end up on an A320 post Alaska/Virgin America merger. Not sure what routes they're using those on.
― Norm’s Superego (silby), Thursday, 14 February 2019 17:30 (five years ago) link
Second 737 MAX 8 crash after takeoff in a few months:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-47513508
The Jakarta one in October prompted Boeing to issue guidance for pilots to ‘address erroneous cockpit readings’.
― ShariVari, Sunday, 10 March 2019 11:26 (five years ago) link
this seems like a pretty big deal
NB it doesn't take much to scare me off flying for a few months
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Monday, 11 March 2019 16:18 (five years ago) link
The Chinese government has grounded all 737 Max planes and a bunch of airlines around the world have done the same.
It’s potentially huge in terms of implications for Boeing but I don’t think there are all that many of them flying at the moment. It’s very new and I think only a couple of hundred are in use - the older 737s are fine.
― ShariVari, Monday, 11 March 2019 16:27 (five years ago) link
Kind of scary because my brother works in the coffee business and Indonesia and Ethiopia are two places he visits a lot.
― o. nate, Monday, 11 March 2019 16:40 (five years ago) link
There’s more of these planes flying in the US (for Southwest and America mainly) I’d be more worried there because they haven’t grounded their planes.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 11 March 2019 19:22 (five years ago) link
Sad connection to the school board I work for.
http://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/03/10/canadians-mourn-as-victims-of-ethiopian-airlines-crash-identified/
― clemenza, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 01:57 (five years ago) link
There’s a fairly suspenseful close call tale from this one making the rounds, a guy from Greece who missed the flight despite his prior connecting flight being on time, and was desperately trying to convince them to let him board but they firmly refused and put him on a followup flight, then didn’t let him board the next flight because they had to take him aside and gently break the news about the crash, and confirm why he was the only ticketed passenger to not make it onboard.
― omar little, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 03:27 (five years ago) link
Can't wait to see his shitty animated series, "Household Dude".
― pplains, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 03:48 (five years ago) link
wait why was he the only ticketed passenger not to make it on board
― global tetrahedron, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 04:11 (five years ago) link
He turned up too late at the gate.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Tuesday, 12 March 2019 04:14 (five years ago) link
Fuck me running
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 05:06 (five years ago) link
Why hasn't the FAA grounded these planes yet???
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 12 March 2019 23:51 (five years ago) link
I would think Boeing is doing everything they can behind the scenes with the FAA to keep them from doing that.
I work for a company that supplies some aviation equipment for the 737 and was slightly relieved it didn’t have anything to do with what what we provide them. I will say that based on the stories I’ve been told, Boeing is ridiculously strict with this kind of stuff so the fact that this is even happening is a major fuckup on their end.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 00:19 (five years ago) link
UPDATED #FAA Statement regarding @Boeing 737 MAX. pic.twitter.com/HxObBr7qRf— The FAA (@FAANews) March 12, 2019
(My day job is supporting the FAA. I can only say that some of the responses to FAANews are...interesting.)
― Anne Hedonia (j.lu), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 00:28 (five years ago) link
Hmm, so the acting administrator of the FAA is a former aircraft manufacturer lobbyist, and the Secretary of Transportation is Mitch McConnell's wife. Sounds like we've got some tough independent oversight.
― o. nate, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 00:34 (five years ago) link
The industry-to-government-to-industry revolving door continues to turn at full speed.
― Anne Hedonia (j.lu), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 00:42 (five years ago) link
jfc let's just stay out of step with every other country on every single issue, what could go wrong?
― Emperor Tonetta Ketchup (sleeve), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 00:59 (five years ago) link
these planes are safe, and until we see the evidence in the form of 9, maybe 10 more crashes, we're gonna let these things fly.
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 01:35 (five years ago) link
I’m flying american tomorrow and thankfully have learned it’s not on one of these planes. really not sure what I’d do if it were...on one hand it seems incomprehensible that the planes would allowed to continue flying if there really were something wrong and that other countries are grounding them out of an abundance of caution, but...jeez
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 13 March 2019 01:39 (five years ago) link
do Delta or Spirit use em?
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 01:46 (five years ago) link
https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737max/#/customers no spirit or delta
interesting that the chinese civil aviation admin says: yeah, this problem with angle of attack sensors happens all the time. Carl Liu, a 23-year-old pilot who has been flying 737s since June for a Chinese domestic airline, said the new model would sometimes show that the aircraft was climbing steeply, even though it was climbing by 10 degrees, and automated systems would nudge the plane’s nose down, causing a temporary loss of control. (also damn this pilot is 23 years old??) https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3001428/china-taking-lead-ground-boeing-737-max-signals-challenge-us-authority i'm not sure i'm convinced it's part of a move against boeing in the ongoing trade war but there's that factor too, i guess.
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 09:31 (five years ago) link
that sounds sketchy af
― PaulDananVEVO (||||||||), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 09:35 (five years ago) link
I had a grim lol at someone saying that pilots were not informed about aspects of its autopilot and "why not?" "oh we didn't want to overburden them with too much information".
― calzino, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 09:48 (five years ago) link
The EU has banned the 737 Max from its airspace now.
A bunch of pilots have reported weird readings and needing to manually compensate to override erratic automatic functions.
The line the airlines still using them seem to be sticking to is that experienced pilots with the appropriate training should be able to manage it ok. I’ve read that the ‘training’ is a 90-minute iPad presentation though.
― ShariVari, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 10:29 (five years ago) link
i'm trying to understand what went on... the mcas gets the wrong reading from angle of attack sensors, thinks it's climbing, nudges the nose down, but does it eventually recover in most cases or does it have to be—and this is where i don't know what pilots do on takeoff—put back under manual control, mcas switched off? and put back into a climb? what role does maximum command limit play in this?
i see that they're updating the software by april: https://qz.com/1570960/boeing-will-update-the-737-maxs-flight-software-by-april/
― XxxxxxxXxxxxxxxxXxxxx (dylannn), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 11:36 (five years ago) link
what's the over/under on the software update introducing another catastrophic bug and/or bricking the plane entirely
― kiss me dadly (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 11:41 (five years ago) link
they're not allowed to fly in France atm (and the rest of the EU too, I think).
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 11:52 (five years ago) link
The software fix to solve the unexpected nosedive problem in these planes had been expected in early January but the government shutdown reportedly "halted work on the fix for five weeks." pic.twitter.com/KDFwnuFIuX— Maddow Blog (@MaddowBlog) March 13, 2019
I'm gonna need some verification of these claims, but if the Federal Government shutdown did delay rollout of a software patch....*laughs bitterly*
― Anne Hedonia (j.lu), Wednesday, 13 March 2019 12:24 (five years ago) link
Also I don't think there is a head of the FAA right now. Only an acting administrator. An article I saw said that there were 5 complaints logged in a voluntary database against that model type and the plane nosing down. I don't know how relative that is against other complaints.
― Yerac, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 12:58 (five years ago) link
(CNN) — US pilots who fly the Boeing 737 Max have registered complaints about the way the jet has performed in flight, according to a federal database accessed by CNN.In one of the complaints, a captain reported an autopilot anomaly which led to a brief nose-down situation -- where the front of the aircraft pointed down, according to the federal database. In another complaint, a first officer reported that the aircraft pitched nose down after the autopilot was engaged during departure. The autopilot was then disconnected and flight continued to its destination, according to the database.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/03/13/us/pilot-complaints-boeing-737-max/index.html
― omar little, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 14:02 (five years ago) link
canada joins ban
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 15:55 (five years ago) link
US ban now as well.
― ShariVari, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 18:40 (five years ago) link
This is as appropriate a moment as any to revive this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW-pFoYgaUs
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 13 March 2019 19:08 (five years ago) link
update: I’m alive
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 13 March 2019 23:08 (five years ago) link
thank you president donald trump
― flappy bird, Thursday, 14 March 2019 02:51 (five years ago) link
i had the fun of flying on one of these this afternoon! i, uh, wasn't thrilled about it. looked like about half the southwest planes at lax were 737 maxes.
― circles, Thursday, 14 March 2019 03:49 (five years ago) link
had to happen and even if the authorities hadn't grounded them, the operations would have to do (by association, individual leisure travellers and corporate travel programs wouldn't fly any of those airlines at all)
― JD Salinger - King of Trainers (King Boy Pato), Thursday, 14 March 2019 09:14 (five years ago) link
Amazing reporting by @seattletimes on the fatal flaws in the Boeing 737 MAX's flight control system—and the regulatory capture within the FAA to hastily approve it. Essentially, this plane could try to crash itself because of a single faulty sensor.https://t.co/LdnnMhN1Gx pic.twitter.com/Z9Iwnz7YBs— Reed F. Richardson (@reedfrich) March 18, 2019
This still seems completely extraordinary.
― ShariVari, Monday, 18 March 2019 15:28 (five years ago) link
i am not aviation engineer, but "this plane could try to crash itself" seems... bad?
― i'm w/ tato, super hot AND weird!! (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 18 March 2019 15:31 (five years ago) link
No no, the pilots just needed to be told to switch off that part of the plane if/when it decided to crash itself, and if they didn't know how to do that, it was because they didn't buy the optional part of the safety manuals which explained this. Not at all Boeings fault, really.
― Frederik B, Monday, 18 March 2019 16:05 (five years ago) link
do you want to turn off The Medusa Touch suicide pilot option yes/no?
― calzino, Monday, 18 March 2019 16:08 (five years ago) link
it's incredibly horrifying and i mean horrifying.
― Hunt3r, Monday, 18 March 2019 16:43 (five years ago) link
boeing seems cool
Ethiopian Airlines and Lion Air didn't pay extra for Boeing's "upgrades" on communications, navigation, and safety features, so Boeing didn't warn them that the planes were prone to sensor malfunctions that would send them crashing into the ground. https://t.co/2Nvka4tNVI— Ben Taub (@bentaub91) March 21, 2019
On a plane that was prone misreading the angle of attack (and then overcorrecting), Boeing charged extra for the "angle of attack indicator" and the "disagree light"—features which "could have helped the pilots detect any erroneous readings." pic.twitter.com/DclKa8pOYo— Ben Taub (@bentaub91) March 21, 2019
And don't think for a second that this was a developing world issue. Major U.S. airlines also didn't buy these safety "upgrade" features, as they were not required by the F.A.A. pic.twitter.com/EhR21vuQMD— Ben Taub (@bentaub91) March 21, 2019
Boeing even charges extra for back-up fire extinguishers, despite the fact that "a single extinguishing system may not be enough to put out flames that spread rapidly through the plane." And you have no way of knowing which safety features your airline has bought. pic.twitter.com/8j4lV51FXM— Ben Taub (@bentaub91) March 21, 2019
― i'm w/ tato, super hot AND weird!! (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 22 March 2019 16:14 (five years ago) link
this all stinks of engineering/business management hell. I wonder how the AoA sensors can be so bad. They look pretty "dumb", which usually means they'd be more robust than a wiimote.
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 March 2019 16:24 (five years ago) link
i mean call me old-fashioned but i just don't think paid-for downloadable content should be a business model which should be applied to air safety
― i'm w/ tato, super hot AND weird!! (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 22 March 2019 16:28 (five years ago) link
new board description ^
― flappy bird, Friday, 22 March 2019 16:49 (five years ago) link
please don't put the weird EA-hating tantrum videogame lords upset that they have to pay for extra character outfits while also unable to resist doing so on the same level as this issue. this involves some hardware and has better, older analogues.
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 March 2019 17:08 (five years ago) link
then again, you may have just been playing off my wiimote comment. apologies.
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 March 2019 17:18 (five years ago) link
naw i was totally trying to gamergate boeing
― i'm w/ tato, super hot AND weird!! (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 22 March 2019 17:22 (five years ago) link
the FAA should drag the gamergate lords away from their current john wick number trailer, call the flight simulator a videogame, and enjoy how they badger boeing into a future clean safety record.
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 March 2019 17:30 (five years ago) link
horse armour fine whatever
paid DLC so my plane doesn't crash I draw the line
― PaulDananVEVO (||||||||), Friday, 22 March 2019 18:00 (five years ago) link
i am not aviation engineer, but "this plane could try to crash itself" seems... bad?― i'm w/ tato, super hot AND weird!! (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 18 March 2019 15:31 (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm
this is so incredibly fucked
― PaulDananVEVO (||||||||), Friday, 22 March 2019 18:01 (five years ago) link
that comment is actually bad because the same system that can crash the plan can potentially save the plane in some situations. it exists for a reason. the auto-pilot, -stabilization, -etc of aircraft is coupled to the evolution of giant aircraft, and you want those systems to exist the same way you want your car to be capable of 100 mph on flat land because that's a much lower speed going up a hill.
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 22 March 2019 18:17 (five years ago) link
The future is crowdfunded/upgradable DLC safety features during the flight booking process.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 22 March 2019 18:51 (five years ago) link
i had the fun of flying on one of these this afternoon! i, uh, wasn't thrilled about it. looked like about half the southwest planes at lax were 737 maxes.― circles, Wednesday, March 13, 2019 8:49 PM (one week ago)
― circles, Wednesday, March 13, 2019 8:49 PM (one week ago)
probably an 737-800. Can confirm all the SWA 737 MAX flights in/out of LAX were cancelled one week ago.
― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 22 March 2019 18:53 (five years ago) link
This and the other comments about sensor triple redundancy in the article best sum up the engineering problems with the plane. The problems are more fundamental than "dumb planes are safer".
As R. John Hansman, a professor of aeronautics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, told me in a March 28 interview,"As I understand it, at high angles of attack the Nacelles -- which are the tube shaped structures around the fans -- create aerodynamic lift. Because the engines are further forward, the lift tends to push the nose up -- causing the angle of attack to increase further. This reinforces itself and results in a pitch-up tendency which if not corrected can result in a stall. This is called an unstable or divergent condition. It should be noted that many high performance aircraft have this tendency but it is not acceptable in transport category aircraft where there is a requirement that the aircraft is stable and returns to a steady condition if no forces are applied to the controls."
"As I understand it, at high angles of attack the Nacelles -- which are the tube shaped structures around the fans -- create aerodynamic lift. Because the engines are further forward, the lift tends to push the nose up -- causing the angle of attack to increase further. This reinforces itself and results in a pitch-up tendency which if not corrected can result in a stall. This is called an unstable or divergent condition. It should be noted that many high performance aircraft have this tendency but it is not acceptable in transport category aircraft where there is a requirement that the aircraft is stable and returns to a steady condition if no forces are applied to the controls."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/petercohan/2019/04/02/mit-expert-highlights-divergent-condition-caused-by-737-max-engine-placement
― say it with sausages (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 18:15 (five years ago) link
got off a 737-800 a few hours ago and my knees are still feeling it. screw safety, what these things need is 3 more inches of legroom
― PPL+AI=NS (imago), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 19:38 (five years ago) link
I feel your pain as a 6'4" guy. Legroom is driven by the airlines' seating configuration, not the manufacturer. Our discomfort is another row or two of ticket revenue. NPR has an article that suggests nothing will change. Would like to see officials load their own families on a 90-second evac trial, and then praise seating arrangements.
― the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 20:23 (five years ago) link
Note to self - fly airbus
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20190403/p2g/00m/0bu/002000c
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Friday, 5 April 2019 07:08 (five years ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/business/boeing-dreamliner-production-problems.html
Not great.
― ShariVari, Saturday, 20 April 2019 20:32 (five years ago) link
https://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/aviation/how-the-boeing-737-max-disaster-looks-to-a-software-developer
not great.
― Burt Bacharach's Bees (rushomancy), Saturday, 20 April 2019 22:36 (five years ago) link
Boeing Has So Many Grounded 737 Max Planes Waiting to Be Fixed They're Parking Them in the Employee Parking Lot
― quelle sprocket damage (sic), Tuesday, 25 June 2019 00:26 (four years ago) link
In a bit of good news, one company is interested in buying quite a few of them.
Boeing on Tuesday won its first order for 737 Max planes since the jets were grounded worldwide in March after two fatal crashes. The vote of confidence from British Airways’ parent sent shares of the manufacturer sharply higher.International Consolidated Airlines Group, or IAG, signed a letter of intent at the Paris Air Show to order 200 Boeing 737 Max planes.
International Consolidated Airlines Group, or IAG, signed a letter of intent at the Paris Air Show to order 200 Boeing 737 Max planes.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/18/british-airways-parent-places-first-new-order-for-boeing-737-max-since-grounding.html
― nickn, Tuesday, 25 June 2019 01:05 (four years ago) link
For Seattle ilxors, you can view the parking lot in the jalopnik article from the south park bridge. It’s amazing, maybe 30 of them sitting along the river, iceland air and thai smile and turkish and so many others i don’t recognize
― alomar lines, Tuesday, 25 June 2019 02:52 (four years ago) link
Boeing 737 MAX 8 Likely Grounded for Rest of 2019 After New Concerns Raised
― Ambient Police (sleeve), Sunday, 30 June 2019 20:42 (four years ago) link
Some of the language in that article is a maybe a little bit hyperbolic.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Sunday, 30 June 2019 21:04 (four years ago) link
This is a bit more measured, Boeing still don't come out of it very well at all:
https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/faa-and-boeing-initially-disagreed-on-severity-of-catastrophic-737-max-software-glitch/
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 1 July 2019 08:32 (four years ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/magazine/boeing-737-max-crashes.html
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Saturday, 21 September 2019 22:19 (four years ago) link
That’s a good read.
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 22 September 2019 15:20 (four years ago) link
Although it doesn’t really offer any solutions- just a very well researched and well written description of the problem. I’m mildly suspicious of the expert graybeards from central casting that he quotes throughout the piece, because it all seems a little one-sided, but then again the Indonesian and Ethiopian crews that are still around to talk are apparently not allowed to.
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 22 September 2019 16:06 (four years ago) link
Boeing pilots' messages on 737 MAX safety raise new questions
― Book Doula (sleeve), Sunday, 20 October 2019 21:35 (four years ago) link
https://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/news/200/john-barnett-on-why-he-wont-fly-on-a-boeing-787-dreamliner/
What is your own personal practice on flying Boeing aircraft now?“When I worked on the 747, the 767, the 777 in Everett, those are beautiful planes. And the people there fully understood what it took to build a safe and airworthy aircraft. I hate to throw the entire label over the whole product line. But as far as the 787, I would change flights before I would fly a 787. I’ve told my family — please don’t fly a 787. Fly something else. Try to get a different ticket. I want the people to know what they are riding on.”
“When I worked on the 747, the 767, the 777 in Everett, those are beautiful planes. And the people there fully understood what it took to build a safe and airworthy aircraft. I hate to throw the entire label over the whole product line. But as far as the 787, I would change flights before I would fly a 787. I’ve told my family — please don’t fly a 787. Fly something else. Try to get a different ticket. I want the people to know what they are riding on.”
― Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 3 December 2019 20:30 (four years ago) link
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a30470973/boeing-737-max-employees-emails/I don’t want to read this. I’m just posting it here
― El Tomboto, Friday, 10 January 2020 22:01 (four years ago) link
"This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys.”
― The Squalls Of Hate (sleeve), Friday, 10 January 2020 22:04 (four years ago) link
But the the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee provided excerpts of those messages to Bloomberg News that un-redacted the Indonesian carrier’s name.“Now friggin Lion Air might need a sim to fly the MAX, and maybe because of their own stupidity. I’m scrambling trying to figure out how to unscrew this now! idiots,” one Boeing employee wrote in June 2017 text messages obtained by the company and released by the House committee.In response, a Boeing colleague replied: “WHAT THE F%$&!!!! But their sister airline is already flying it!” That was an apparent reference to Malindo Air, the Malaysian-based carrier that was the first to fly the Max commercially.
“Now friggin Lion Air might need a sim to fly the MAX, and maybe because of their own stupidity. I’m scrambling trying to figure out how to unscrew this now! idiots,” one Boeing employee wrote in June 2017 text messages obtained by the company and released by the House committee.
In response, a Boeing colleague replied: “WHAT THE F%$&!!!! But their sister airline is already flying it!” That was an apparent reference to Malindo Air, the Malaysian-based carrier that was the first to fly the Max commercially.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-14/lion-air-idiots-sought-more-max-training-boeing-thwarted-it
― Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 15 January 2020 22:43 (four years ago) link
is there anyway to check (in advance of booking) which type of aircraft will be used on your flight? would not fancy going on one of these for say, oooooh, about 10 years?
https://www.theverge.com/2020/12/9/22165956/boeing-737-max-flight-brazil-gol-airlines
― sir kieth scamper QC (||||||||), Wednesday, 9 December 2020 21:59 (three years ago) link
Gol Airlines told the publication it plans to use the 737 Max in regular service starting later this month, and passengers who don’t want to fly on the plane will be able to exchange their tickets.
all airlines need to do this imo
― sir kieth scamper QC (||||||||), Wednesday, 9 December 2020 22:00 (three years ago) link
You can go to FlightAware.com and enter your flight # which will give you a lot of data about that flight; below the flight map you'll see a log of scheduled flights and what aircraft will be used, plus a record of what aircraft were used in previous flights.
Some airlines' websites, e.g. JetBlue's, tell you the aircraft used for each flight when you go there to do your booking. I wouldn't say they're accurate 100% of the time but I think they generally are.
― Josefa, Wednesday, 9 December 2020 22:31 (three years ago) link
Another 737 gone missing after taking off from jakarta
― nob lacks, noirish (darraghmac), Saturday, 9 January 2021 11:41 (three years ago) link
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-not-spirit-mis-installed-piece-that-blew-off-alaska-max-9-jet/
The fuselage panel that blew off an Alaska Airlines jet earlier this month was removed for repair then reinstalled improperly by Boeing mechanics on the Renton final assembly line, a person familiar with the details of the work told The Seattle Times.If verified by the National Transportation Safety Board investigation, this would leave Boeing primarily at fault for the accident, rather than its supplier Spirit AeroSystems, which originally installed the panel into the 737 MAX 9 fuselage in Wichita, Kan.That panel, a door plug used to seal a hole in the fuselage sometimes used to accommodate an emergency exit, blew out of Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 as it climbed out of Portland on Jan. 5. The hair-raising incident drew fresh and sharp criticism of Boeing’s quality control systems and safety culture, which has been under the microscope since two fatal 737 MAX crashes five years ago.Last week, a different person — an anonymous whistleblower who appears to have access to Boeing’s manufacturing records of the work done assembling the specific Alaska Airlines jet that suffered the blowout — on an aviation website separately provided many additional details about how the door plug came to be removed and then mis-installed.
If verified by the National Transportation Safety Board investigation, this would leave Boeing primarily at fault for the accident, rather than its supplier Spirit AeroSystems, which originally installed the panel into the 737 MAX 9 fuselage in Wichita, Kan.
That panel, a door plug used to seal a hole in the fuselage sometimes used to accommodate an emergency exit, blew out of Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 as it climbed out of Portland on Jan. 5. The hair-raising incident drew fresh and sharp criticism of Boeing’s quality control systems and safety culture, which has been under the microscope since two fatal 737 MAX crashes five years ago.
Last week, a different person — an anonymous whistleblower who appears to have access to Boeing’s manufacturing records of the work done assembling the specific Alaska Airlines jet that suffered the blowout — on an aviation website separately provided many additional details about how the door plug came to be removed and then mis-installed.
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 26 January 2024 00:32 (four months ago) link
KAYAK Lets Users Filter Out Boeing 737 Max 9 Flights After Door Blows Off Plane
― Elvis Telecom, Friday, 26 January 2024 00:33 (four months ago) link
oof
― dead precedents (sleeve), Friday, 26 January 2024 00:48 (four months ago) link
Nationalize Boeing
― B. Amato (Boring, Maryland), Friday, 26 January 2024 01:15 (four months ago) link
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/24/delta-air-lines-plane-nose-wheel-falls-off
― organ doner (ledge), Friday, 26 January 2024 08:34 (four months ago) link
More concerns as Alaska Airlines flight arrives at PDX gate with open cargo doorhttps://www.koin.com/news/alaska-airlines-safety-concerns-cargo-door-pictures-portland/
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 9 March 2024 05:05 (three months ago) link
o_0
Boeing whistleblower found dead in US
It said the 62-year-old had died from a "self-inflicted" wound on 9 March and police were investigating.
― mookieproof, Monday, 11 March 2024 22:20 (three months ago) link
DamnAlso this today https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2024/03/11/at-least-50-injured-on-latam-airlines-boeing-787-after-technical-problem-causes-sudden-drop-in-altitude/
― calstars, Monday, 11 March 2024 22:50 (three months ago) link
Jon Oliver did a good piece on them last week, the gist of it is their only priority right now is shareholder value
― frogbs, Tuesday, 12 March 2024 00:07 (three months ago) link
I know nothing about financing, stocks, etc. But it seems to me that if I owned a business that I really cared about, I would never take it public.
― Hideous Lump, Tuesday, 12 March 2024 11:50 (three months ago) link
Really good article that sums up Barnett's (the now dead whistleblower) complaints.
https://prospect.org/infrastructure/transportation/2024-03-28-suicide-mission-boeing/
― just like Christopher Wray said (brownie), Friday, 29 March 2024 14:01 (two months ago) link
Hm another whistleblower has died.
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/whistleblower-josh-dean-of-boeing-supplier-spirit-aerosystems-has-died/
― just like Christopher Wray said (brownie), Thursday, 2 May 2024 12:06 (one month ago) link
o_O
those Prospect articles about Barnett are wild
― rob, Thursday, 2 May 2024 13:58 (one month ago) link
I was going to say something about irony impairment by naming your rejected/not-rejected parts bin MRSA, but fuck this companyhttps://prospect.org/infrastructure/transportation/2024-04-30-whistleblower-laws-protect-lawbreakers/
Sections 47 and 48 of a 787 Boeing Dreamliner fuselage consist of the back four rows of the plane’s passenger seating, bathrooms, meal prep area, flight attendant seating, and rear exit doors. “Not the kind of thing you could sneak out on the back of a pickup truck,” says Rob Turkewitz, an attorney who represents the estate of John Barnett, the whistleblower who was found dead last month the morning he’d been scheduled to finish a deposition in his whistleblower lawsuit against the company. And yet around 2015, someone caused a massive hunk of this fuselage to vanish from the Material Review Segregation Area (MRSA) of the Charleston, South Carolina, 787 assembly plant, without leaving any kind of paper trail. As near as Turkewitz and his former client have been able to figure, no one ever determined what became of the thing.
― Elvis Telecom, Thursday, 2 May 2024 22:48 (one month ago) link
what in the fuck
― I painted my teeth (sleeve), Friday, 3 May 2024 00:27 (one month ago) link
so what, hypothetically, could you do with that if you had ill intent?
I think the point here was that 'losing track' of something like that and not even reporting it is a graphic illustration of how absurdly far Boeing was from compliance with federal regulatory requirements. Whether it was purposeful or accidental wouldn't even matter.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Friday, 3 May 2024 00:43 (one month ago) link
gotcha, jeez
― I painted my teeth (sleeve), Friday, 3 May 2024 01:12 (one month ago) link
crazy stuff
― I painted my teeth (sleeve), Friday, 3 May 2024 01:13 (one month ago) link
last company i worked for did tons of business for Boeing - we supplied them with antennas among other things. our company, and i wouldn't be surprised if it was the same with other suppliers, were more and more following the Boeing mentality. we had a locked room that had all the "scrap material" that couldn't be taken to the material shredder until everything was signed off on by quality assurance, the appropriate upper management, the customer, etc. so the fact Boeing had something like that disappear is absolutely wild.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Friday, 3 May 2024 01:41 (one month ago) link
straight up, the FAA doesn't fuck around, so at least i made sure everything i was doing was always by procedure.
for example, products we supplied airlines had to be assembled, painted, tested, etc. at certain approved temperatures and humidity. one year, the facility manager decided that to save some money they were going to hold off on repairing the AC system. flash forward to May/June and the AC hasn't been fixed and a heat wave is going through the area. the production area was hitting 95+ F and terrible humidity. it took program managers to get them to let them know we were violating government regulations to finally get them to fix the AC. but that's the kinda snakey shit i started seeing upper upper management were doing to save a buck/get their next promotion.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Friday, 3 May 2024 01:49 (one month ago) link
yep, and I bet that was x10 at Boeing
― I painted my teeth (sleeve), Friday, 3 May 2024 01:51 (one month ago) link