Terry Gilliam's Brothers Grimm

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http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/thebrothersgrimm.html

I am insanely relieved to see Terry Gilliam back in fine form, much less doing a project that looks so incredibly FUN.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)

Matt Damon looks like an (original) Oompa Loompa!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

There was an unfavourable review of it on AICN, but then again AICN is staffed by dicks.

― chap who would dare to thwart the revolution (chap), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:36 (twenty years ago)

If every critic in the world panned a Terry Gilliam movie I'd still go and see it.

― Anti-Pope Consortium (noodle vague), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:37 (twenty years ago)

heath ledger, huh?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:37 (twenty years ago)

I'm skeptical but hopeful... I was more excited about the Don Quixote project...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 8 August 2005 17:38 (twenty years ago)

I saw some of that documentary about the attempted making of Don Quixote and I was disappointed because he wasn't trying to make a film of the book.

― Anti-Pope Consortium (noodle vague), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:40 (twenty years ago)

I hadn't even heard about this until I saw a trailer for it; looked it up and he made it like 3 years ago and it's been delayed for all number of reasons. NOt usually a good sign. He's finished another movie since then which sounds better as well.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:40 (twenty years ago)

but strict allegiance to source material has never been Gilliam's modus operandi!

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 8 August 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

I never heard about this at all either until I saw the preview, which did not really convince me of its quality.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 8 August 2005 17:42 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I know, but I love Don Quixote and would've loved a Gilliam-esque telling of it rather than one of those modern story/old story dialectics.

― Anti-Pope Consortium (noodle vague), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:43 (twenty years ago)

The AICN review: http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=20879

I actually am sort of turned on by the idea of ol' TG making an obvious, predictable film, if only for a little variety in his catalog.

Also, I feel that history has been extremely unfair to Baron von Munchausen, especially in Lost in La Mancha, which, in a way, saddled his career woes entirely on that film's lack of commercial success.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:44 (twenty years ago)

God, it's been seven years since Fear and Loathing already?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:44 (twenty years ago)

this whole movie should be monica belluci.

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:45 (twenty years ago)

god yes

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

I've always thought Gilliam should film one of Iain M. Banks' books. Imagine how gorgeous it would look.

― chap who would dare to thwart the revolution (chap), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

Haha, remember the last time Monica Bellucci was in a historical horror epic? That was in The Brotherhood of the Wolf, one of the worst movie of the naughties.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:48 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, that was a link to my IMDb comment of the film, rather than the main page.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:49 (twenty years ago)

Munchausen is probably my favorite Gilliam film. that or Time Bandits.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 8 August 2005 17:53 (twenty years ago)

Brotherhood of the Wolf - fuck you for not being about werewolves.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:53 (twenty years ago)

Matt Damon looks like he may actually be quite good in this film which shicks me a bit.

heath ledger, huh?

yeah. has anyone ever liked him?

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

shicks shocks

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

When has Matt Damon not been good?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:56 (twenty years ago)

this film is from the years when people thought heath ledger would have a career

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:57 (twenty years ago)

Apparently Monica Bellucci plays some kind of vampire or something that sustains her beauty by drinking the blood of VIRGINS. So boner worthy.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:58 (twenty years ago)

Have you seen The Talented Mr. Ripley? That was like one of the best performances of the nineties?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:58 (twenty years ago)

*shame* I liked Heath Ledger in both Knights Tale AND Four Feathers. *shame*

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:58 (twenty years ago)

(x-post)

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:58 (twenty years ago)

Oh shit, AND Lords of Dogtown!

xpost!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 8 August 2005 17:59 (twenty years ago)

WTF, Brotherhood of the Wolf is great!! Or at least it's fun, if only because 18th century Frenchman having martial arts fights makes so little sense. Sure, it's an incoherent mess, but why is that bad exactly?

― stewart downes (sdownes), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

yes, Tuomas, i've seen The Talented Mr. Ripley. Damon's is like the 6th best performance in the movie.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

This is clearly a case where the director of the movie means more to me than anyone in it. ("Matt...Da...mon...")

I saw Munchausen during its opening run and I'm damn glad I did. So deserves to always and only be seen on the big screen.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:03 (twenty years ago)

I don't mind Matt Damon, but Tuomas, you're acting like there's this great consensus that he's one of the finest actors of his time, which is v. amusing to me right now.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

Brotherhood of the Wolf was bad because it had all the makings of a great trashfest, and it ruined everything by taking it's ridiculous script seriously.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:05 (twenty years ago)

http://cineblog.blogs.sapo.pt/arquivo/brothers%20grimm.jpg

Even if this movie somehow sucks goat balls, it has made me very very happy for, at the least, giving me a reason to google image search Monica Bellucci.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

Philip Hoffman, Jude Law, Cate Blanchette, James Rebhorn & Gywnneth Paltrow are all better than Damon in that film.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:06 (twenty years ago)

I predict Matt Damon will become the Bill Murray of our generation... I haven't seen a single bad film with him in it, plus he has a lot more range than Murray. I even liked The Legend of Bagger Vance.

(x-post)

Fuck all you haters, without Damon that film would've been nothing!

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

Has Gilliam ever made a bad movie? I can't remember any.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:08 (twenty years ago)

I don't think so. Time Bandits is kinda uneven, but all the other are classic.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

Haven't seen Jabberwocky though.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

Oh, and Holy Grail is the worst of the Monty Python films. But it's still good.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

time bandits is totally his best!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

Even if this vehicle only really serves as a hype-building machine for Tideland, it will have served a great purpose.

I'm sort of in overload right now: no new Gilliam flick for SEVEN YEARS, and now TWO in the SAME YEAR! Love.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

nick, you needed a reason?

― mark p (Mark P), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

Time Bandits is near peerless but his absolute best...hm, hard to say! I see his career in general as a series of excellences occasionally compromised or not totally up to snuff but never outright failing. Hard for me to be balanced about him, though!

And yeah, Tideland is what I'm really waiting on now...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

Holy Grail is better than And Now For Something Completely Different and The Meaning of Life. Jabberwocky is kinda like Holy Grail 2 but with added Gilliam cynicism.

― Anti-Pope Consortium (noodle vague), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

but his absolute best...hm, hard to say!

I think Brazil would be the safe, canonical pick.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

jabberwocky is his worst film by far. Brazil is his best.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

and the Fisher King is his second worst movie, but it's still awfully good

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

I like The Fisher King and Fear and Loathing the most. As good as all his films are, I think he's at his best when he has a serious restraint (the former), or no restraint at all (the latter). Time Bandits is kinda half-assed in this regard, maybe Brazil too.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:25 (twenty years ago)

i don't think I've ever seen a Gillaim film get generally good reviews on release (except for the Fisher King which everyone seemed to love). Reviewers hate him. I don't know why.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:28 (twenty years ago)

Because reviewers tend to want coherent films and his forte is mad energy?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

I think he's able to be coherent only when he has nothing to do with the script (like with Fisher King and 12 Monkeys); that's what I meant by serious restraint.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 8 August 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

I'm rather baffled by the love for Fisher King here, I'd easily put that as his worst. Its two movies in one, and the second (ie, love story portion) of the film is so clumsily executed and basically pointless.... I dunno... plus, I just really don't like Robin Williams...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 8 August 2005 19:04 (twenty years ago)

i don't either but this is one of those rare movies where he worked in the character (the other one is the World According to Garp)

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 19:10 (twenty years ago)

granted - he is really good in Garp, and I love his bit in Munchausen, there's probably a couple other things... but the whole love affair detour in the film where they try to integrate Williams' character back into reality takes up the last third of the movie, has nothing to do with anything, and eventually drops the movie right back where it was at the end of Act 1 and starts over ("remember that grail thing I wanted to get?" "oh YEEEAHH... right, let's go!")

Really there are only two great sequences in the film: the dancing in Times Square (beautifully edited, plus great monologue cameo from Tom Waits) and Williams' visions of the Red Knight.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 8 August 2005 19:15 (twenty years ago)

does everyone like 12 Monkeys?

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 19:19 (twenty years ago)

I think I would probably place 12 Monkeys as second to last, just slightly better than the Fisher King but it's been ages since I've seen either movie.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 8 August 2005 19:22 (twenty years ago)

12 Monkeys is a decent film (Willis gives an excellent performance), but La Jettee told the same story so much more economically and elegantly.

― chap who would dare to thwart the revolution (chap), Monday, 8 August 2005 19:26 (twenty years ago)

yeah, I agree w/Walter. Its better than the Fisher King, but not by a whole lot. It telegraphs its plot points pretty obviously and thus seems to drag on... Also (not surprisingly) I hate Bruce Willis, so that sorta exacerbates the boredom. This is one of the few things I think Brad Pitt is actually really good in, tho. He gets in some funny lines.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 8 August 2005 19:27 (twenty years ago)

12 Monkeys might be my favorite Gilliam flick, if Brazil isn't. I just LOVE Bruce Willis playing That Guy Bruce Willis Is Really Good At Playing (see also: The Fifth Element, Pulp Fiction), it has possibly the best sentimentality-to-delirium ratio of all of his films. I especially think it's the best of his work for repeat viewings, as it is somehow an optimistic tragedy that ends exactly where it begins, and, though the (return) audience knows what to expect, there's sort of a built-in refusal to accept it.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 8 August 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

I'd rank 'em like this

1. Brazil
2. Baron Munchausen
3. Time Bandits
(I suspect these first three were consciously constructed as a chronological troika - parables of childhood, adulthood, and old age, etc.)
4. Holy Grail
5. Fear and Loathing
6. 12 Monkeys
7. Fisher King

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 8 August 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

I don't think any of these films sucked enough to say that Gilliam needed to "return to form." Maybe if he made 5 Fisher Kings in a row I could see that but otherwise I think he has a certain insane and chaotic consistency.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 8 August 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

I suspect that he had a hand in directing Life Of Brian, even though it's credited to Terry Jones. If you count that, that's my favourite, followed by Time Bandits and Brazil.

― chap who would dare to thwart the revolution (chap), Monday, 8 August 2005 19:36 (twenty years ago)

the only thing he directed in that was the Pirate Insurance Building short film I think. which is pretty good.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 19:56 (twenty years ago)

Kyle, you mean Meaning of Life, not Life of Brian. ;-)

Brian was directed by Jones fully outside of a bit of the introductory sequence, which Gilliam did handle. But Gilliam's main job throughout was as production designer, which as can readily be seen he did an amazing job with.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 8 August 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

>Have you seen The Talented Mr. Ripley? That was like one of the best performances of the nineties?<

hehehe, you and Frank Rich... What a travesty that was, turning a strange, scary character into a sad gay Andrew Cunanan. Damon can be OK and gets points for ambition, but usually not much more.

Gilliam like Burton often makes films that rely on overblown visuals, which are missing a soul.

I disliked "Munchausen" intensely, so I don't have much hope for this.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 8 August 2005 20:19 (twenty years ago)

how do you feel about the original Munchausen (which Gilliam liberally copped from..?)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 8 August 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

Gilliam like Burton often makes films that rely on overblown visuals, which are missing a soul.

Well as long as he keeps it up that's fine by me. I couldn't really care less about "soul."

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 8 August 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

"soul" = Spielbergian hamminess, presumably.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Monday, 8 August 2005 20:35 (twenty years ago)

Tuomas, I knbow you Finns are mental an' all, but The Talented Mr Ripley is preeeeetty close to being the worst film ever made. It's the least watchable pile of pompous pointlessness I've ever seen (and I've seen American Gigolo).

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 8 August 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

My grandfather worked on Munchausen (matte painter), said that Gilliam was a really nice guy, better to work with than Kubrick who was a absolute perfectionist.

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Monday, 8 August 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

Mein mutter! TMR is indeed a most underrated piece of work. The Finn's nimble fingers type words stinging with truth.

Robinson

― Robinson (Robinson), Monday, 8 August 2005 20:47 (twenty years ago)

I think the Talented Mr. Ripley is easily one of the best studio films of the past ten years.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

Indeed!

I am loathe to cast another "poster" in a somewhat negative light, but it seems bizarre, utterly bizarre, that any fellow could not find something to enjoy in this moving picture, it's simply a delight!

Robinson

― Robinson (Robinson), Monday, 8 August 2005 21:05 (twenty years ago)

It's a pretty good flick but it's not the best of anything.

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 8 August 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)

jude law gets killed in it, ergo, it is good

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

http://latenightgames.com/labynight/gallery/janus/Janus03.jpg

VS.

http://www.preciousplatinum.it/files/images/Monica%20Bellucci-AnelloCartier.web.jpg

― The Original Jimmy Mod: A Negro (The Famous Jimmy Mod), Monday, 8 August 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

baron m. is great. i just watched it the other night. there are lots of weird moments of drag that lengthen the thing way too much, but it's just so frequently astonishing that it hardly matters.

― Secundus Covarient (s_clover), Monday, 8 August 2005 22:17 (twenty years ago)

my wife hates monica bellucci. you can guess why (she is not terribly fond of angelina jolie (my other fantasy girlfriend) at the moment either).

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 8 August 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

i rate them like this:

1) fear and loathing (the best film ever made about the '60s)
2) brazil
3) holy grail
4) everything else ("12 monkeys" is good but it's no "la jetee")

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 01:35 (twenty years ago)

So far I'm just loving this one cos of the bit in the trailer where Ledger shouts "you were almost eaten by a tree. A TREE!!!" This looks cool and silly. I love Heath Ledger (he was great in Knights Tale), Damon I can pass on, but hey. And Monica... droool.

Those costumes!

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 02:21 (twenty years ago)

I am just the right age to have seen both munchausen and Time Bandits in the cinema as a child. So I have real affection for both of these films. Whatever else he is Gilliam is a great director of Kids' movies. Both of the above films are still wonderful. Fear and Loathing was great too, 12 monkeys I'm not so hot on, especially if you hold it up to 'the 5th element', which may seem like a daft thing to do but it as far as quirky sci-fi goes T5E wins on the Gilliam visual richness stakes. It's a shame Don Qixote failed, but this film could be great.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 03:58 (twenty years ago)

but the whole love affair detour in the film where they try to integrate Williams' character back into reality takes up the last third of the movie, has nothing to do with anything, and eventually drops the movie right back where it was at the end of Act 1 and starts over ("remember that grail thing I wanted to get?" "oh YEEEAHH... right, let's go!")

It's been years since I last saw, but's that's not how I remember going. Wasn't the sequence more like this: Jeff Bridges and his girlfriend try to integrate Williams back with the world -> they do this by introducing him to the girl -> all goes well at first, but when Williams gets too much in love with the girl, memories of his wife start pouring back, the red knight attacks him again; also, he learns that Bridges was responsible for his wife's death -> he reverts back to his fantasies -> Bridges needs to get the Grail to redeem Williams. Also, even if the love sequence had had nothing to do with anything, it was sweet. Discrediting a Terry Gilliam film for nonlinearity is a bit disingenuous.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 04:00 (twenty years ago)

I dunno, Tuomas: Possibly excepting Fear and Loathing, I think all his films are really linear. But I agree, you can't use this to discredit him, either. He's visually fascinating and absolutely original but at the same time his films are slow. And again, I think this is a good trait, but it's once I can see annoying a lot of viewers.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 04:08 (twenty years ago)

disingenuous... almost like discounting a batman film for dealing with vigilantism?

― Secundus Covarient (s_clover), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 04:09 (twenty years ago)

Let us not go there.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 04:15 (twenty years ago)

listen to walter.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 04:16 (twenty years ago)

1 Brazil
2 12 Monkeys
3 Fear and Loathing
4 Holy Grail
5 everything else

Michael Palin is absolutely delightful in Brazil, and I have watched every Bruce Willis film EVER MADE (even The Jackal and Color of Night and Hudson Hawk I am not kidding, but yes they were all terrible) so the love is obvious there.

Matt Damon is NOT the Bill Murray of this generation, that title clearly belongs to Vince Vaughn.

I have heard terrible things about studio meddling and forced edits and whatnot but I will probably see this anyway and cry myself to sleep if I don't like it.

― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 04:18 (twenty years ago)

Since this thread seems to have turned into Gilliam ranking I might as well say:

1. Brazil
2. Munchausen
3. Fear & Loathing

Time Bandits, Jabberwocky & Holy Grail kind of all blend together for me in fourth place.

Lost in La Mancha has to count for something.

Twelve Monkeys & Fisher King at the bottom.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 04:23 (twenty years ago)

1. brazil / time bandits
2. munchausen / fisher king
3. fear and loathing / twelve monkeys.

don't really remember jabberwocky, never saw holy grail.

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 04:25 (twenty years ago)

hehehe, you and Frank Rich... What a travesty that was, turning a strange, scary character into a sad gay Andrew Cunanan.

Don't you think filmmakers have the right to their own interpretation? Who says it is a "strange, scary character"? You? Compared to Damon, Alain Delon's performance in the same role was mere surface. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with it, but I still prefer the new version of the story.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 05:12 (twenty years ago)

Matt Damon is NOT the Bill Murray of this generation, that title clearly belongs to Vince Vaughn.

Holy shit! HOLY SHIT! OTM!

I can't wait until he's old.

― giboyeux (skowly), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 05:19 (twenty years ago)

Clealry about ten years from the Ghostbusters of his generation, then.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 06:09 (twenty years ago)

I'd say:

Brazil
Baron Mucnhausen
Holy Grail
12 Monkeys
Time Bandits
Fisher King

I'd really have to watch Fear & Loathing again to be able to place it. But Brazil, if for nothing other than Ian Holm being completely magnificent ("IT'S-WHAT-YOU-WANTED-ISN'T-IT?"). A bleak, depressing film with so much quotably comic dialogue. Also, aside from Pole To Pole and a couple of episodes of Ripping Yarns, it's probably Michael Palin's best work post-Python.
And Baron Munchausen, still the film I've seen the most times in a cinema. At the time it had me enchanted pretty much like no other film before it. Or since really.
Those are his best.

― David Merryweather Goes To Far (scarlet), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 08:26 (twenty years ago)

>Don't you think filmmakers have the right to their own interpretation?<

Yep -- I like Jane Campion's fairly loose version of "The Portrait of a Lady" just fine. It's different when you alter the vision of a masterwork to the degree it's unrecognizable, and not at all good.

>Who says it is a "strange, scary character"?<

Most ppl who like Highsmith? John Malkovich nailed him in "Ripley's Game," showing none of prom king Damon's sweaty effort.

I think Gilliam is a filmmaker whose "best work" will be what you saw when you were, I dunno, 19? 22? unless you rewatch them all now. I always though "Brazil" was his best til I saw the Euro cut recently and found the last third repetitive and sledgehammer-obvious. Now I must retreat to "Time Bandits," and maintain everything else but it and "Brazil" drowns in production design (upper end F&LiLV and 12M, Fisher King the pits).

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)

You honestly don't think a book and a movie can't exist as different entitities? I've never read the Highsmith book, and I enjoyed the film very much. What if Kubrick had filmed Dr. Strangelove as a straight thriller, as the book it's based on was? Do you think Tarkovsky spoiled Stalker because his film wasn't really sci-fi?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 12:45 (twenty years ago)

They HAVE to exist as different entitities, unless it's just a BBC-style follow-the-book. Kubrick/Minghella doesn't compute: "Red Alert" was an obscure novel, "The Talented Mr. Ripley" is (arguably) a transcendent genre masterpiece.

Tons of genre films have improved on trashy sources... "The Godfather" comes up first.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 12:58 (twenty years ago)

You honestly don't think a book and a movie can't exist as different entitities?

Dr Morbius already said he did when he talked about the Campion film of "Portrait of a Lady" - now who's being disingenuous? Damon's performance ultimately fails because Ripley is supposed to win people round because he's a chameleon not because he's somewhat pathetic and invokes your pity.

xpost

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 13:04 (twenty years ago)

that scene at the beginning when he tries on the glasses and by extension his new persona falls totally flat because the acting has to be amazing and just isn't. having said all that i do still think TMR is pretty good.

― jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 13:06 (twenty years ago)

Back to Grimm, I thought Heath Ledger in the first 20 minutes of "Monster's Ball" topped anything I've seen from Damon.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 13:09 (twenty years ago)

i like the 'bourne' films, but damo does seem to have a habit of playing people with no fixed identity.

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 13:10 (twenty years ago)

'the fisher king' is so ass.

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 13:14 (twenty years ago)

Clealry about ten years from the Ghostbusters of his generation, then.
-- Ed (dal...), August 9th, 2005 3:09 AM. (later) (link)

Yeah, probably mostly in the Caddyshack/Stripes phase at this point. But when he gets to Groundhog Day/What About Bob?...comedic gold my friends, comedic gold.

― Jessie the Monster (scarymonsterrr), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 17:48 (twenty years ago)

i don't think fear and loathing "drowns in production design"; the film's visual style is utterly appropriate for the material (you could argue i suppose that it's not true to the deadpan, understated tone of HST's narrative but i can't really see anyone pulling off a deadpan, understated F&L film). fair point about the rest of gilliam though, i guess.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 19:30 (twenty years ago)

the production design in 12 Monkeys is pretty restrained, apart from the short scenes set in "the future". Same goes for the Fisher King as well - tho perhaps that's one of the reasons I don't like those films as much as his others...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 19:33 (twenty years ago)

Really there are only two great sequences in the film: the dancing in Times Square (beautifully edited, plus great monologue cameo from Tom Waits) and Williams' visions of the Red Knight.

Shakey, which film are you talking about here?

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

Fisher King

― Remy (x Jeremy), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:00 (twenty years ago)

Oh, okay. IMDB was confusing me...I think because they fucked up and didn't credit Robin Williams for that movie!

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

Robin Williams .... Parry

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)

Oh yeah! He's credited REALLY fucking far down, though.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 21:09 (twenty years ago)

To be fair his role was hardly as important as "Limo Bum," "Crazed Video Customer," or "Sitcom Wife." They placed him in his rightful position right after "First Punk" and "Second Punk."

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

why is his name spelled with an "a"? Esp. if he's supposed to be a stand-in for Percival...?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 9 August 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

Parsifal

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 9 August 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

Good interview here:
http://www.smart.co.uk/dreams/tgint05.htm

― weather1ngda1eson (Brian), Sunday, 14 August 2005 13:11 (twenty years ago)

i find the whiteness of matt damon's teeth distracts me from judging his performance. i think he gets by by being the less annoying partner in his crew with affleck.

― keith m (keithmcl), Sunday, 14 August 2005 15:55 (twenty years ago)

two weeks pass...

This was, uh, pretty bad. Lots of awkward moments left to drop, sudden friendships and relationships developed, terrible pacing.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 29 August 2005 02:12 (twenty years ago)

i herd it wuz shite

― Adam In Real Life (nordicskilla), Monday, 29 August 2005 02:14 (twenty years ago)

The only people I know who saw it walked out.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 29 August 2005 02:19 (twenty years ago)

The worst is when Heath Ledger slips into his Raoul Duke/HST impression.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Monday, 29 August 2005 02:23 (twenty years ago)

oh no. too bad. although to be fair it doesn't sound like gilliam was hot on this movie at all.

― kyle (akmonday), Monday, 29 August 2005 02:23 (twenty years ago)

Dear me. Here's hoping for Gilliam's next in a couple of months, but I still want to see this in a theater.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 29 August 2005 02:30 (twenty years ago)

If only the whole movie had been like the last 30 minutes (minus the very last 3 minutes).
I snuck in so didn't have much at stake and had totally forgotten it was Gilliam (and Damon and Ledger, for that matter) (I have been busy! On dial-up! Moving! etc!), so my first critical thoughts were: hm, low budget, kids' movie? I thought it would actually be about, y'know, the Grimm stories, directly. I even thought they'd found some good Damon look-alike - the usual Hollywood trick: looks similar (same teeth) but is just slightly uglier. When I remembered it was Gilliam, I was sad. And then the last half hour started, which is really the tone the whole movie should have taken - fast paced, honestly acted, fantastical nuances, more weird shots. oh well.

― rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:07 (twenty years ago)

it pretty much sucked... worst casting ever

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

in a lot of ways it's totally gilliam's sleepy hollow

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:30 (twenty years ago)

this looks wack as hell

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

script = so bad

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

i remember when the screenwriter was being hailed as the next... ugh... kevin williamson!!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:32 (twenty years ago)

we tried to watch 12 monkeys on tv last year and it was almost inexcusably lame, more shit i thought was great in h.s. and cant stand now

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:33 (twenty years ago)

haha kevin williamson is pretty funny tho!!

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:33 (twenty years ago)

script = possibly written by 12 actual monkeys

― rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:34 (twenty years ago)

there's no way i can watch that stuff again, i'd prefer to keep it cool in my head

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:35 (twenty years ago)

im tryna think of what gilliam is actually any good now- i hated fear & loathing and im sure brazil wouldnt stand up either despite loving it in h.s. (havent seen it since i was 17 i think??), oh i did watch fisher king a couple years back and it was aight tho!!

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

i like fear & loathing a lot!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

so its weird to think but the one with robin williams as a magical, sentimental crazy man might be his best film

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:39 (twenty years ago)

ehh it was so lame and meandering to me, i havent seen it since h.s. either tho so maybe i would have reversed all opinions??? i dunno i even like weird depp roles but the whole thing came off really fake and arbitrary

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

Brazil stands up. In fact, after the last four years, the absurd black humor combined with the setting and arguments in the script seem a bit prescient...

But yeah, the idea that Robin Williams as a magical etc. is where he found the right balance is simultaneously weird and workable. But personally I'd still say Munchhausen for sheer glorious overreach.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

ed wood >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fear & loathing

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:41 (twenty years ago)

i never saw munchasen!!! i bought the video for a dollar but inside the gilliam tape case was this weird french cartoon version of it with naked titty mermaids

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

fear and loathing is a masterpiece, one of the best adaptations ever. if any gilliam movie stands up a hundred years from now it'll be that.

but ed wood is good too!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:43 (twenty years ago)

"masterpiece"?? cmon

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

no YOU c'mon!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

i should probly watch it again

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:46 (twenty years ago)

i just remember alot of irritating unfunny mugging and monty python style "surreal" drug episodes

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:46 (twenty years ago)

ok i guess i should list some actual reasons: i liked the way gilliam's usual over-the-top mise-en-scene (i hate that term but i can't think of a better one) was being used for a purpose beyond just random pythonesque craziness. it's a very dark movie, and really brings out the paranoia and despair at the heart of the novel, which most directors probably would have skimmed right over. i've heard ppl say johnny depp overplayed HST but really he's underplaying compared to the real guy!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

ed wood >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fear & loathing

Quite correct.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:54 (twenty years ago)

tho i sort of wonder sometimes if it would have been a better movie with bill murray's HST instead of depp's.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:54 (twenty years ago)

you know what would be cool is a doonesbury movie!!

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:55 (twenty years ago)

why are you guys comparing ed wood to F&L? i really don't see what they have in common!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:55 (twenty years ago)

johnny depp

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

Hahahaha I liked "Sleepy Hollow" (mostly because I knew it was going to be a nonstop decapitatiothon and because Johnny Depp was playing an Americanized Doctor Who)!

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:57 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I was gonna say, what's so horrible about Sleepy Hollow? Imperfect but still!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:58 (twenty years ago)

it was ok, couple good scenes and very well shot but real boring compared to ed wood and mars attacks

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

also has one of the few acceptable christina ricci performances

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:01 (twenty years ago)

"Mars Attacks!" should have been about 15 minutes shorter.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)

brazil is still great.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)

haha mars attacks could be 12 hours long and i would still be laughing at 'earth... and mars...' and ACK ACK ACK

― 3, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:04 (twenty years ago)

Why the references to all of these old Tim Burton movies? I haven't seen Brothers Grimm yet but it can't possibly be as bad as Planet of the Apes, Big Fish or Charlie & the Chocolate Factory.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:50 (twenty years ago)

Tim Burton and Terry Gilliam are both pretty horribly overrated, cmon y'all.

― gear (gear), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

a couple of "winners" in their resume, aside.

― gear (gear), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

Sleepy Hollow is one of my favorite '90s films - beautiful, moody, even the shitty dialogue fits.

This was just terrible. I kept expecting some of that Gilliam visual magic - a fisheye lens here or just the right color scheme there. But no, it was just grimy and dark and ugly.

― milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Thursday, 1 September 2005 01:03 (twenty years ago)

three months pass...

I saw this on the plane and really enjoyed it. OK so I was hepped up on cold medicine, booze and altitude but it was good fun. Grimy, dark and ugly was what it was menat to be about.

― Ed (dali), Friday, 23 December 2005 08:21 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

Ed seconded vis a vis high enjoyability factor while slightly addled.
I think I may eventually add this to the permanent DVD collection.
Peter Stormare is increasingly becoming one of my favorite character actors, I wish he was in more movies that I could stand to watch more than once or twice (cf. Armageddon, Constantine).

Did anybody else think of Andrew Farrell while watching Heath Ledger's performance here? Esp. everything after "I Can't Hold Me Ale!!!"

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 1 March 2006 15:30 (twenty years ago)

Haha I saw this thread on New Answers and thought "I really hope someone is posting to say 'It's all bullshit, this film is great!' because then I'll go get it".

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 15:32 (twenty years ago)

ooh, i hadn't heard of this - is it out in the uk?

― dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 15:36 (twenty years ago)

I must see this again having just read Q by Luther Blisset, they seem to fit together.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 15:39 (twenty years ago)

to answer Jimmy Mod's taking sides way the hell up thread, it's Madeline Stowe.

Also this movie really isn't terrible at all, I don't know what the 5 other people who saw it are talking about.

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 15:43 (twenty years ago)

Also what the fuck is Tuomas' problem with Brotherhood Of The Wolf?

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 1 March 2006 15:48 (twenty years ago)

probably that it isn't a good movie.

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 15:51 (twenty years ago)

I think it was something about animal abuse and batman.

― jocelyn (Jocelyn), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 16:11 (twenty years ago)

xpost - So you're saying he only likes good movies, not great ones? It fits the profile.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 16:13 (twenty years ago)

no, clearly that's not true because he likes the Talented Mr. Ripley which is one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 16:14 (twenty years ago)

Too fucking right.

― Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 16:15 (twenty years ago)

Not only was Matt Damon not the best performance in that film, he's not even the best performance of Tom Ripley put to any film. I prefer him in this type of movie, or the Bourne movies, or mostly any movie besides that one actually.

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Wednesday, 1 March 2006 16:20 (twenty years ago)

has there ever been a good movie with the word "wolf" in the title? apart from "the wolf man" obv.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 2 March 2006 00:14 (twenty years ago)

Tim Burton and Terry Gilliam are both pretty horribly overrated, cmon y'all.

-- gear (speed.to.roa...), September 1st, 2005.

a couple of "winners" in their resume, aside.

-- gear (speed.to.roa...), September 1st, 2005.

otm

― latebloomer: where dignity goes to die (latebloomer), Thursday, 2 March 2006 00:16 (twenty years ago)

has there ever been a good movie with the word "wolf" in the title?

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00005LC4E.01._PE46_.An-American-Werewolf-in-London._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

― phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 2 March 2006 00:20 (twenty years ago)

I rather like The Talented Mr Ripley for what it isn't: a pathetic and rather monstrous filmization of gay panic. I could forget Matt Damon and concentrate on the deliciousness of the other performers (Philip Seymour Hoffman, Jude Law, a not-bad Gwyneth Paltrow, who's not the cow Marge is in the novel).

Then I saw Malkovich in Ripley's Game and thought, "Holy shit." The way in which he turns a banal line like "Would you like some tea?" into a creepy insinuation is one of the best acting jobs I've seen in recent years.

How is Ledger's perf in Brothers Grimm? I'm curious to know how it's regarded post-Brokeback, i.e. A Harbinger of Greatness to Come

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 2 March 2006 02:19 (twenty years ago)

My god, I forgot about Ripley's Game. I was thinking of Hopper as the original Tom Ripley on film when I made my comment! This makes Damon the 3rd best Ripley now. Yikes-o-rama.

Ledger is good in Bros Grimm! Almost unrecognizable as Heath Ledger, previous cheesy movie "star." It definitely displays he has acting chops besides being really, really good looking (to quote one Derek Zoolander). But I've yet to see Brokeback...

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Thursday, 2 March 2006 03:03 (twenty years ago)

This movie was utterly forgettable.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 2 March 2006 03:09 (twenty years ago)

Being memorable is an overrated quality, sometimes.

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Thursday, 2 March 2006 03:10 (twenty years ago)

True. Given another year or two, I may not remember how awful the writing was.

― Erick Dampier is better than Shaq (miloaukerman), Thursday, 2 March 2006 03:13 (twenty years ago)

zing!!

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Thursday, 2 March 2006 03:15 (twenty years ago)

Ally, have you ever Purple Noon with Alain Delon? If not, you might want to. Your rankings may have to be revised again.

― phil d. (Phil D.), Thursday, 2 March 2006 12:41 (twenty years ago)

SHE NEVER HIM.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 2 March 2006 12:50 (twenty years ago)

I have NOT seen Purple Noon. Man, Damon is looking worse and worse now.

― Allyzay Rofflesberger (allyzay), Thursday, 2 March 2006 15:11 (twenty years ago)

seven months pass...

the reviews for Tideland are terrible beyond terrible

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 19 October 2006 21:11 (nineteen years ago)

Oh dear.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 October 2006 21:15 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, it's really the one to kick this year.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 19 October 2006 21:16 (nineteen years ago)

the trailer looks ridiculous

― cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Thursday, 19 October 2006 21:21 (nineteen years ago)

the trailer was... weird. I never saw the Brothers Grimm, but recently bought the Time Bandits Criterion DVD, which made me pine for more Gilliam... wish he coulda made the Man of La Mancha.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 19 October 2006 21:24 (nineteen years ago)

this is interesting: Sarah Polly emails Gilliam about her traumatizing experiences making Munchausen

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 19 October 2006 23:02 (nineteen years ago)

the difference here being that by almost all accounts the little girl in Tideland is awful, where Polly was pretty good

― kyle (akmonday), Thursday, 19 October 2006 23:03 (nineteen years ago)

Reading the Rotten Tomatoes summaries of Tideland should constitute some kind of drinking game; every time a review makes a wisecrack about the film ending with a train wreck, take a shot.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Thursday, 19 October 2006 23:21 (nineteen years ago)

Reading the thoughts upthread, I'd just like to chip in briefly: Brazil and Twelve Monkeys are amongst the most amazing films I've ever seen, the latter a movie that tries (and more or less succeeds) to be everything, comedy, drama, sci-fi, romance, satire, thriller, even war movie(!), and despite a predictable plot resolution manages to exert a genuine sense of pathos and tragedy. The former, however, is the gem. For all but the last thirty seconds we watch a puzzling, beautiful, sweet, hilarious, emotional, escapist fantasy of the highest imaginable order.

And then we're treated to what I believe is the most devastating final scene in movie history. Jesus, the expression on his face is something that will never, ever leave me.

Yeah, so here's hoping Tideland isn't as excruciating as they're all claiming up Metacritic...

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Thursday, 19 October 2006 23:49 (nineteen years ago)

Here is the best way I can accurately describe Tideland: the most awkward any film has ever made me feel.

― got yourself a fish biscuit! (nickalicious), Thursday, 19 October 2006 23:58 (nineteen years ago)

It is the only movie he's ever made I wouldn't recommend anyone ever watch.

― got yourself a fish biscuit! (nickalicious), Thursday, 19 October 2006 23:59 (nineteen years ago)

So OTFM about Tideland making you feel akward like no other film has. I seem to have forgotten most of the movie (saw it 5 months ago approx.) but from what I remember I'm willing to bet that the little girl is gonna grow up all traumatised and shit what with playing in both this movie and in Silent Hill.

― Jibé (Jibé), Friday, 20 October 2006 12:10 (nineteen years ago)

three years pass...

In my usual dilatory way, I just saw Brothers Grimm on dvd last night. It was pretty much vintage Gilliam and every frame of it was steeped in his typical sensibility. Mr. G has an unmistakable sense of design, character and narrative that no one else even tries to mimic. He is a one man parade, but an entertaining one.

The script delivered his usual message about the soul-redemptive quality of fantasy, as opposed to the horrors of rationality, which I must say is a pretty unimaginative and piss-poor message in a lot of ways. But since watching a movie is a two-hour exercise in suspended disbelief, the message is not very important after the movie ends and reality reasserts itself.

Yes, I would recommend it, fwiw.

― Aimless, Sunday, 1 November 2009 19:42 (sixteen years ago)

wow this came out in the end? reading palin's diaries TG comes across as loveable and eccentric in the way i hoped he would.

― piscesx, Sunday, 1 November 2009 20:40 (sixteen years ago)

interesting, guess I'll check it out. the tepid reviews put me off it since it sounded like "gilliam-for-hire", although the horrifying stuff I heard about Tideland makes me wonder if 'for-hire' is better than "gilliam-auteur". still want to see the new one though.

― akm, Sunday, 1 November 2009 21:55 (sixteen years ago)

three years pass...

Man but this was teal and oranged something chronic.

― as a chocolate salesperson (ledge), Sunday, 13 October 2013 22:04 (twelve years ago)

I like big budget Gilliam though, watched Baron Munchausen yesterday and for all its quirky charm it didn't hold my attention half as much.

― as a chocolate salesperson (ledge), Sunday, 13 October 2013 22:08 (twelve years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/YsNwaQ6.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/E9V7pHy.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/iurfeyD.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/gLHjt45.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/6zUDTrq.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/keIVMoq.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/LQfoj2t.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/M3KwAyR.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/1OOyEh2.png?1

― as a chocolate salesperson (ledge), Sunday, 13 October 2013 22:51 (twelve years ago)

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