Dazed & Confused, C or D?

"Okay guys, one more thing, this summer when you're being inundated with all this American bicentennial Fourth Of July brouhaha, don't forget what you're celebrating, and that's the fact that a bunch of slave-owning, aristocratic, white males didn't want to pay their taxes."

is beck's wife a scientologist too?

In case anyone forgot this was filmed in Austin. Neck in neck with Slacker as my favorite 'made here' movie.

It was in the news recently. From IMDB:

On Thursday 7 October 2004, former high school classmates of Linklater filed a lawsuit against Universal Studios saying that the director did not get their permission to use their likenesses and surnames and now suffer from ridicule. The three men are Bobby Wooderson, Andy Slater and Richard Floyd. The three men still live in Huntsville, Texas where according to the lawsuit "we had fun in high school."

(and no more goddamn Ethan Hawke)

On Thursday 7 October 2004, former high school classmates of Linklater filed a lawsuit against Universal Studios saying that the director did not get their permission to use their likenesses and surnames and now suffer from ridicule. The three men are Bobby Wooderson, Andy Slater and Richard Floyd. The three men still live in Huntsville, Texas where according to the lawsuit "we had fun in high school."

this was reported awhile back on SNL with the joke being, the lawsuit's ten years later. stoners.

Fave music cue: "No More Mr. Nice Guy"

I like Waking Life way more than the Before jabberfests.

..I've got it on VHS, Laserdisc (remember those)and am awaiting a freaking release date for it to come out on Criterion. YAY!!

"dominant male monkey motherfucker!!"

very classic shot: when the camera rises up from the action panning to show the wreckage of the kegger, all to the tune of "tuesday's gone"

the best use of Bob Dylan in a film is in a film called Don't Look Back

the coolest or most interesting character in D&C is less cool or interesting than my not-all-that-cool-or-interesting 9th grade English teacher, whose classroom had sofas and a dog, and who played a song (Foghat, Delbert McClinton, etc.) before each class, and the Last Waltz on the last day of school

the book had michelle's pot brownie recipe, which i never tried as it took like 5 hours.

explain

I find the plot and dialogue mostly forgettable; the look and Jason London's nipple are what stay with me.

But 'the look' point is interesting - what about it do you think is distinctive?

Thank you for reading past the point.

He does play an enormous asshole that everyone hates and despises (and does so very well!)

The Slacker thread has more on gabbneb's distaste for the film.

It would be interesting to see "Slackers" again, and see how well that holds up. I remember it being pretty engaging.

Also, I think it would be cool if Linklater collaborated with Mike Judge on something, since they both have the Texas thing in common...

if this film does feel like high school to others, i won't deny them that, but it doesn't to me, and i'm sorry if you think my saying it is the expression of some superiority-principle, but if this had been my high school milieu, i wouldn't look on it fondly, because i don't like anyone in this movie (the sympathetic characters are too boring or flat to be likable). even if nostalgia isn't the point, does this movie tell you anything you didn't already know?

i'm sorry, n/a, for answering your thread question. i wasn't encouraging Morbius as much as I was trying to find some value in the movie I might be missing.

it's BUSH. bush league stuff.

'dazed and confused' is mostly about TEENAGERS.

and it was made like what? a decade later?

I recognize the Welles quote, but that was about Rosebud.

oh yeah teenagers NEVER speak in cliche!!

Sure do, and that's not the same as BEING cliches, now.

which was the point

so cliched that about a decade later there was a tv show called "freaks & geeks" that handled that element.

which was the point

Like hell. From Bowie epigraph on, Hughes gives the kids moral primacy. He is (or was, in his 30s) an arrested adolescent himself.

yeah but the starting point is a cliche, no? i don't think there's anything wrong with cliches, btw, esp. in d&c as linklater does a lot of interesting things with them.

It's almost as good as that would be.

Classic That '70s Show is so much better within its medium than most of these films, though. I remember hating The Breakfast Club for all the reasons you say, Morbius, but I've softened on it over the years to appreciate the plot and performances and pencils in the ceiling. The music and nostalgia help, but D&C doesn't have anything as memorable as that dandruff snow or the chase through the halls. Okay, maybe the bowling ball scene.

The way characters interact is more realistic (and compelling) than any other American 'teen' movie I can think of.

F&G and D&C don't make a good comparison - Apatow's in a much more 'straight comedy' vein, and I think Linklater has a much bigger heart for all of his characters.

that's interesting, as i agree with respect to the 'before' films. just don't see it in d&c.

And a movie which involved kids smoking pot and playing pinball should have been soooo much more visually interesting!

The scenes like the mailbox vandalism and the dumping paint on the Affleck character's head just came and went without making any real impression. And the dialogue given to the nerd-ish characters was a yawn compared to Freaks and Geeks. The awkwardness in the flirting/romantic scenes again seemed kinda empty/flat as well, and I thought came across better in Slackers.

A truly unfair comparison, I realize, since it was actually of the time, but if you go back and watch Over the Edge, I think it makes one realize how superficially Linklater portrayed the era...

So I assume you're referring to the seminal 2002 Dewey Nicks comedy (which includes a F&G castmember, coincidentally).

dude, the close up on the pinball is grebt!@!!!

There should have been more cultural touchstones in the film.

What about the crappy drive-in marquee with FAMILY PLOT on it? (I remember that better than entire scenes you guys are recalling.)

heh, oops.

dude, the close up on the pinball is grebt!@!!!

no, it could have been sooooo much better, that's why I made that comment...they teased us with that shot.

I get the feeling D&C wasn't emo enough for some people.

actually, sorta-kinda...it just all seemed kinda blunted to me. You're doing a film about kids, c'mon. Sure, most of them are major stoners, but that doesn't mean they should be devoid of affect. More than that, it just seems like not much "happens" in the film, and not in a good "Slackers" kinda way.

you're trying to turn a lil running thread joke into "evidence" for your argument. I didn't even know who Ben Affleck was until years after seeing it the first time, and I still liked seeing that fucker get what was coming to him. (while viewing it, on several occasions I've had to point out to others that that character is played by him.)

xpost you've got it backwards. Slacker is the bad kind of nothing happening. D&C would suck if they tried to implant emo shit into it a la the parts I always fast-forwarded through in Breakfast Club

Ah, to me Over the Edge is the best portrayal of stoned teenagers in the seventies. In fact, best portrayal of teenagers in the seventies, bar none, save maybe "Breaking Away" or the television series "James at 15/16".

If 'meta' in this context means "limp exercise in nostalgia", then I agree.

xpost you've got it backwards. Slacker is the bad kind of nothing happening. D&C would suck if they tried to implant emo shit into it a la the parts I always fast-forwarded through in Breakfast Club

On bad/good kind of nothing, we couldn't disagree more! And it's not that I want Breakfast Club-like glurge-iness implanted into D&C; it's just that it would just be nice if there were something in there to make me respond more than "eh".

Ho ho.

um, so? does "good" art have to be about adults?

That's three touchstones in a row right there: Barbara Harris, Karen Black, AND Bruce Dern!
(William Devane is more 80s thanks to Knots Landing)

But I have nothing to contribute to this debate thing that cropped up after the 16th (except to say that the Linklater "tone" is a huge part of what makes this movie appealing to me. To say that "nothing happens" is kind of silly in that respect. Everything is always happening.)

All new high-definition digital transfer, supervised by Richard Linklater and cinematographer Lee Daniel

Audio commentary by Linklater

"Making Dazed," a 50-minute documentary by filmmaker Kahane Corn

Booklet featuring new essays by film critic Kent Jones, music critic Jim DeRogatis, and author Chuck Klosterman, plus character profiles, and memories of the film from cast and crew

More than two hours of rare on-set interviews and behind-the-scenes footage featuring cast and crew

Footage from the 10-year anniversary celebration

Audition footage

Deleted Scenes

Original trailer

Collectible film poster

yikes

OTOH, I think this guy is a Daily Show writer.

I'm somewhat bewildered that under 35s love D&C, since re Bicentennial puberty, I was there, maaaaaan.

Is this movie just a unique part of Linklater's career, since a lot of the comments above mention disliking his other movies but loving D&C, or was it the victim of how hard it is to enjoy a movie while only paying half-attention at a party?

All this to say, is it worth another shot? I'll probably give it one anyway...

but not unique in linklater's oeuvre, it's got so much in common with a lot of his other movies

It's about teenagers, has a wall-to-wall uncool rawk soundtrack, looks like a cheap '70s youth movie -- why did I wonder why Gen X & Y musos fetishize it?

I haven't read more than a few lines of DeRo since his Jersey Beat fanzine, cuz I feel faint when I do.

CLASSIC -- but how often do you really want to RELIVE HIGH SCHOOL? maybe I'll watch it again in lieu of attending that 30th reunion.

http://wileywiggins.blogspot.com/2006/05/dazed-criterion-edition-ar_114773312565970032.html

but... i think it would me a much better movie if it were, backwards.

party at the moontower.

i just rewatched this the other night, and when "sweet emotion" started up my not-quite-2-year-old son dropped the blocks he was playing with and grabbed his toy drum and started thumping it, while watching the screen transfixed.

anyway, it's an utter classic. i love how it makes pink's refusal to take the no-drug pledge this big heroic moment. and how they ride off into the sunrise to buy aerosmith tickets. it's mythological and ridiculous all at once.

...

where do you get CRITERION dvds in the uk?

why, via amazon.co.uk!

i can't resist watching this when it comes on tv. like earlier i had to step out for a moment and was bummed that i was about to miss the affleck/paint scene

quoting myself because just because

Dazed and Confused recalls the 1970s as a brief blossoming of freedom, emphasizing the point by setting its story in the bicentennial year of 1976. Post-Vietnam, post-Watts, post-Woodstock and Altamont, post-Watergate, there is no innocence left for the kids in Linklater's small-town Texas high school to lose. What they have instead is knowledge. If American Graffiti is nostalgic for an adolescent Eden, Dazed and Confused looks back longingly at that first burst of freedom out of the garden.

i can't resist watching this when it comes on tv.

otm!

Just got the Criterion edition. Total stone cold classic. Possibly my favourite film ever.

http://www.discogs.com/image/R-944929-1177487586.jpeg

Also, I think it would be cool if Linklater collaborated with Mike Judge on something, since they both have the Texas thing in common...

Actually, Linklater was one of the voice actors in the Beavis & Butthead movie. I think he's one of the FBI/Secret Service guys.

^^^^nice handle

http://www.sensesofcinema.com/images/directors/03/27/dazed.jpg

I don't think I've ever enjoyed an objectively terrible performance so much.

Love love love it. I will still be watching this in the nursing home when I'm ninety.

has anyone in this movie made a better movie yet?

i think this is the high point for everyone involved

HIGH point, right

wanna say adam goldberg but hard to back that up

Parker Posey did "Best of Show".

the only 1 i can think of is milla jovovich - the 5th element but thats sort of a challopsy sentiment and besides i probably like d&c more in the end

yeah, ill defend christopher guest halfheartedly, but in no universe is best in show better than d&c

which was a worse movie xxp

a-gold was technicxally in zodiac, but for like three minutes

question was BETTER movie

xp to myself

"A Mighty Wind"? "Waiting For Guffman"?

(I should shut up because I've never seen "Dazed & Confused")

no and no

(I should shut up because I've never seen "Dazed & Confused")

― Lots of praying with no breakfast! (HI DERE), Monday, February 23, 2009 1:38 PM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

dan.

wanna say adam goldberg but hard to back that up

― meme economist (special guest stars mark bronson), Monday, February 23, 2009 1:35 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

was in zodiac

omg no!

adam goldberg was in zodiac

was also in Saving Pvt. Ryan.

I bet Nicky Katt's done something better. One of Soderbergh's, maybe.

wow i really hate this movie

well, arguably. a few went on to make more 'successful' films, but who cares cuz they were all garbage.

"Good Will Hunting" is overrated and dated, but I wouldn't say it's garbage.

its overdated and rated

"Daredevil", OTOH, is some straight-up bullshit.

i love gwh but its not dazed and confused

Milla Jovovich was in 5th Element.

Oh, somebody said that already.

I'm not totally sure if 5th Element is better than D&C, but it's still great.

yep, i basically said all those things

Anyway, are we counting Linklater himself? Because I'd say Before Sunrise and Before Sunset are equally good if not better.

zodiac

has anyone in this movie made a better movie yet?

― max, Monday, February 23, 2009 6:33 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think this is the high point for everyone involved

― max, Monday, February 23, 2009 6:33 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what about zodiac caek - that was good too

so i should watch this movie???

a-gold was technicxally in zodiac, but for like three minutes

plus zodiac is not better than dazed & confused

pretty sure ben affleck doesn't get a shitload of paint dumped on his head in zodiac

i am glad we live in a world where both exist

AMERICA!

it's the fuckin best.

its the best, next to zodiac

i need to rewatch zodiac. it was fine the first time round but a bit of a slog.

(i started it at 1am or so, which did it no favours)

zodiac > dazed and confused >>>> the rest

havent seen zodiac but i believe adam goldberg was in the hebrew hammer

jk its not better than d&c

PARTY AT THE MOONTOWER

will this be awesome or terrible - http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/article/spiritual-sequel-to-dazed-and-confused-shooting-this-summer

The movie, which he is shooting in and around Austin this summer, will be about the first weekend of college in 1980. So while thematically it’ll bookend Dazed, it won’t have any of the same characters.

totally awesome, i'd wager.

i had a dream about milla jovovich last night, knew it had to mean something. awesome.

yeah that's hardly a sequel, thus it should be good.

please please please let this be good

i know right

I have high hopes. Linklater hasn't made anything that I liked since Before Sunset, but that's been choice of material more than anything.

http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2009/04/30/exclusive-matthew-mcconaughey-in-loose-talks-for-dazed-and-confused-sequel/

http://www.riskybusinessblog.com/2009/06/an-indie-flm-world-dazed-and-confused.html

on hold : (

noooooo

Dazed and Confused ... where are they now?

kinda lame because they mainly focus on the people who got famous

WEIRD because Wiley Wiggins, arguably the main character, or at the least main audience proxy -- he's the kid who confronts his pretty cool mom at the end and puts on the headphones and listens to "Slow Ride" -- is not there. And he's done shit since then. He's not dead or societally embarrassing or something. (He's a terrible actor, but that's not the point.)

"Waking Life" -- that's his other thing. I saw that. I didn't like it, but I fucking SAW it.

Movie audiences haven't seen much of Andrews since 'Dazed,' but he did star in the 2008 indie film 'Fix,' directed by Tao Ruspoli (husband of actress Olivia Wilde).

I hope he thanks his God of choice every morning that he's good-looking. Because who gives a flying dick.

wiley wiggins is in there, he's #16

You're right. I clicked through this twice, and... hold me back from ranting about thoughtless navigation and sloppy-ass javascript. I even checked, and I still missed him.

Weird. I just saw this again yesterday.

there are too many characters in this movie.

you need to put down your things reaaaaal nice and slow AND GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE

the one beatnik-looking guy at the moontower that kicks Mike's ass looks too much like Ben Affleck. "Pink" Floyd looks too much like... was it Pickford? and all the girls look exactly alike, except for the one in the car with Tony and Mike.

incorrect

sbanned and confused

ctrl+f reveals only one "dud"

hahahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahah

aaaanyway, after my first view this is a good movie, but not a very funny one. all the funny parts are lines that have been quoted by my friends ad nauseum before ("high school girls" "talkin' some fuckin' muscle" "kick some ass drink some beer" and "lot cooler if you did"), so no real big laughs.

that mitch kid really is the worst actor ever. i had heard about it before of course, so i wasn't all that surprisedbut that scene where he brushes his hair back and touches the bridge of his nose 10 times is pretty amusing.

how did matthew mcconaughey get to be such a star on the basis of this movie? i don't how his performance is any better than most of the others.

i think it's sort of interesting, maybe not surprising, that the underlying politics of the movie tend to get glossed over when people talk about it.

go on...?

how did matthew mcconaughey get to be such a star on the basis of this movie? i don't how his performance is any better than most of the others.

He didn't become a star thanks to this movie.

i can totally see how his performance in this stands out, tho

yea he's a v memorable character

Matthew McConaughey: "Aw thanks, man. The truth is I spend at least 90% of my year going away, exploring exploring exotic places, having sex with my beautiful girlfriend and just doing sit-ups. I mean that's really--then counting money. Money that I made off those terrible films that i put out into the American populous because they just love to see me, doing what it is that I do."

Stewie: "Yes, but you're not hearing me. 'Dazed and Confused' was the one thing that was passable. After that-"

Matthew McConuaghey: "Aw, thanks man. That actually launched my career."

"girlfriend"

what's this interview?

oh right, ok

go on...?

well i think the movie's really about sort of the end of "the '60s" and the way that wave of cultural liberation carried over to the adolescents of the '70s. it was a really unusual, aberrational period, and having lived through it linklater recognizes just how aberrational -- the sort of freedom and self-determination that you see being born in american graffiti (because of cars, rock'n'roll, birth control, etc) reaching its apex (or its decadent phase, or maybe those are the same thing). there are the hints of the reagan-era crackdown to come, most obviously in the just-say-no pledge that pink refuses to sign but also in things like the cavalier way mitch is able to buy beer, the line about how "maybe the '80s will be radical or something." the bicentennial setting is apt but also ironic: in terms of youth culture and really american culture in general, this is as free as it's going to get. i think the movie almost conceives the '70s as a sort of american prague spring, smalltown-texas style -- and is nostalgic for it but also honest about its limitations. all that freedom mostly meant was the chance to get high and rock out.

cool! i was worried you were going to underline some super-conservative streak underlining it all i had somehow missed haha

(sorry, just woke up, unable to contribute anything more thoughtful than that at the mo)

as a reagan-era teen myself, i've always been sort of fascinated by the era immediately preceding. i mean, not that the '70s were any kind of utopia, they were pretty dystopian, but if you look at what actually went on in that period -- culturally, artistically, politically -- it was a real free-for-all. there was all kinds of experimentation at all levels of society (public schools being built without walls, how did this ever even happen?), because for a little while nobody knew who was in charge. and i think that era is what linklater's memorializing, in miniature.

I was a Carter-era teen, and didn't really take advantage of the temporary freedoms.

(OK except for getting stinking drunk a couple times in senior year, but I guess that didn't really fall by the wayside as a tradition.)

aaaanyway, after my first view this is a good movie, but not a very funny one. all the funny parts are lines that have been quoted by my friends ad nauseum before ("high school girls" "talkin' some fuckin' muscle" "kick some ass drink some beer" and "lot cooler if you did"), so no real big laughs.

While those are probably the most repeatable lines, I don't think they were ever the funniest. And this movie is not about big laughs, imo. The humor comes from getting to know and building affection for the characters.
There are excpetions, ben affleck's d-baggery brings some pretty big laughs.

i love this film so much.

Matthew McConuaghey: "Aw, thanks man. That actually launched my career."

This is the high point of Family Guy, by the way.

1993 saw Jovovich in the Richard Linklater cult film Dazed and Confused, in which she played Michelle Burroughs, on screen girlfriend to Pickford (played by her then real life boyfriend Shawn Andrews). Jovovich was heavily featured in the promotional material for the film, however, upon the film's release, she was upset to find her role was considerably trimmed from the original script. The bulk of Jovovich's role was to be shot on the last day of filming, however, she was misinformed of the date, and ultimately had one line in the film, "No", in addition to singing a line from "The Alien Song" from her album, The Divine Comedy.

does she really only have one line? i still think of her as an important part of the movie, i guess because of the kiss statue. (and ok because she is the most crush-worthy of the female cast.)

most of the kiss statue plot was cut though, right?

yeah it just kind of rolls up out of nowhere. memorably, tho.

yeah there deleted scenes of them stealing the statue from a bank and, i think, getting caught. don't think she was in those scenes though.

This is the high point of Family Guy, by the way.

― caek, Wednesday, December 23, 2009 3:34 PM (41 minutes ago) Bookmark

hard to choose: i like "Society wants your pants to be intact. But you're not just gonna listen, are you?"

tipsy OTM re: the underlying politics of the film, def. one of the best things about it

IMO half of the humor of McConaughey's character was that half the stuff he said was really "older cool guy hanging out with younger people" cliches. I thought the point was that he still came off as likable and kind of funny was a success of the movie.

"older cool guy hanging out with younger people"

hi!

JUST KEEP LIVIN'

l i v i n

you know what I else I love about this film? belt-buckle pipe

Love this movie. The Goldberg-Blond Guy-Redhead axis is what I respond to most: my trio of high school friends were just like this, dropping pretentious, catty remarks yet still cool enough to get talked to by Jason London types and invited to parties.

I admire how Linklater choreographs the thing. It takes 3/4ths of the movie to unfurl before I realized who the Best Friends were. Jason London's the cool guy who can get along with the jocks, stoners, and geeks, yet they all combine, separate, and recombine in interesting ways. The block parties I attended were exactly like this.

Linklater's finest moment.

this movie sucks

could have been done a million times better

save your energy and watch over the edge and james at 16

you jackasses

Watched both, like them enough.

Next.

damn

this movie is pretty much perfect

you wanna see a movie that replicates the times? avoid this at all costs.

watch the last american virgin and get back to me.

you jackasses.

If Dazed and Confused really does completely suck, I'll go and be a jackass.

that movie sucks.

And I'm a jackass.

i've spent the last two hours watching madonna videos on youtube. way ahead of you in that dept.

:)

I wrote about this when it came out, and I hemmed and hawed and carped about its period accuracy. I have a bad habit of going into films about the '70s with preconceived notions about how they should look and sound; same thing happened with The Ice Storm, which I now love. Anyway, after watching it a couple of more times the whole way, and catching lots of bits and parts channel-flipping, I like it fine. Not as much as The Virgin Suicides, but that's a highly subjective thing that I don't feel like explaining or defending. My favourite character (and one where I think Linklater gets the details exactly right--I swear he's Rick Gourley from my high school's basketball team) is the young kid, who has a really endearing way of screwing up his face when he's embarrassed. I like pretty much all the male characters, although Stoner Guy lays it on a bit thick at times, like his Martha Washington spiel. (Sometimes he's funny too; he reminds me of Spicoli when he realizes he shared a class with the redhead.) I don't think there any female characters as vivid as Candy Clark or Mackenzie Phillips in American Graffiti. "Sweet Emotion" over the opening credits is spectacular.

Parker Posey is plenty vivid.

I love how she's never "humanized."

But, yeah, there are leaden patches of writing: Goldberg's recounting of the Abe Lincoln dream, Jason London's "If these are the best years of our lives, shoot me" bit, a conversation over smokes by the girls in a school restroom.

Posey's vivid, I guess, but she and Jovanovic were the two who most seemed to me to wander in from from Not Another Teen Movie or something. Again, I'm letting my own increasingly unreliable version of high school interfere.

Alfred, i think that's awesome that you delved into. it.

my oldest brother was class of '82. believe me, i know this material intimately.

film was a drag. think mike judge would have done this material more justice.

Goldberg's recounting of the Abe Lincoln dream

But I've HAD that dream! Ok, it wasn't Abe lincoln. But she did have a beard. No hat.

Jason London's "If these are the best years of our lives, shoot me" bit

― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, September 19, 2010 8:43 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

this is like the key moment of the film, wtf

oops, i meant "Clemenza"

class dis-fucking-smissed

I don't think there any female characters as vivid as Candy Clark or Mackenzie Phillips in American Graffiti.

I guess not. Well, but maybe. I'd have to watch it again.

But D&C and AG is a fairly matched comparison.

my favorite part of the movie was the throwaway lines and character portrayed by one matt mcconaghey (sp)

the way you guys romanticize this thing makes me think a. you never attended public h.s. in the u.s.. and/or b. you don't grok the seventies, man

The best thing about the movie is the way it almost, but never quite, romanticizes itself.

I romanticize movies when they're good and they ask me to. This movie does not ask me to.

can never trust linklater after this travesty

What a disaster.

I don't think anyone's romanticized it...I pointed out what I thought are some flaws, and one or two similar films I like better, and the person who revived the thread pointed out some flaws, and praised the film for not humanizing one of the characters. That doesn't seem like romanticizing.

Generally I'm against conveniently humanizing movie characters too, but sometimes I think it's okay. On another thread, I said I liked how Trip Fontaine's flash-forwards humanized him in The Virgin Suicides. Truthfully, I sometimes think some people on this board could stand a little humanizing. Okay--gotta catch a bus!

LISTEN KENAN. I DON'T LIKE YOU, YOU DON'T LIKE ME. LET'S TRY TO MAKE THE REST OF THIS SEMESTER EASY FOR BOTH OF US.

clem, i'm just psyched that ppl like virgin suicides. felt like that got a bad rap

you jackass

xxp :)

People who don't like this movie are the same people who don't like the Boston guitar sound. Just a hypothesis that I just came up with.

you got it bass-ackwards. nice try, though, FROSH

For someone who hates this movie... nevermind.

Jason London's "If these are the best years of our lives, shoot me" bit

― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, September 19, 2010 8:43 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

this is like the key moment of the film, wtf

Exactly -- it's like a thesis statement in an essay. And so out of character for London.

i LOVE all the bits gucci says are leaden. this film is just the fucking best. i loved it so much i got something called 'the dazed and confused high school yearbook' on import back in like '99. we don't have yearbooks as such over here so they never published it in the uk. it's a funny thing.

is the criterion dvd worth getting?

I admire how Linklater choreographs the thing. It takes 3/4ths of the movie to unfurl before I realized who the Best Friends were. Jason London's the cool guy who can get along with the jocks, stoners, and geeks, yet they all combine, separate, and recombine in interesting ways. The block parties I attended were exactly like this.

whaa? love the way you guys make it out to be like orson welles material.

must have seen a different movie.

d&c so devoid of nuance, an insult to anyone who came of age in the seventies

the glorious seventies, full of nuance and Orson Welles material

i'm serious, would not bother to complain if i didn't have legit beef w/this movie and it's lazy celbrators

I came of age in the '70s. Dazed and Confused is just fine.

i'm serious, would not bother to complain if i didn't have legit beef w/this movie and it's lazy celbrators

I shouldn't be bothered to mention the lazy spelling.

that's the correct spelling, you jackass

seriously, though, this movie is a drag. but it doesn't surprise me that ppl celebrate it. most ppl are cowardly.

Thankfully we have your courageous contrarianism on message boards.

hmmm.

MAYBE YOU'VE BEEN BRAINWASHED TOO, brah

I suddenly want to go to bat for Dazed and Confused, having just gone through this on another thread, where I praised what I thought was a pretty good and consistently interesting mainstream bit of filmmmaking, and instead of pointing out flaws and ways it came up short--some of which I pointed out myself--it instead had to be painted as this venal con job, absolutely the worst thing on the face of the Earth. Or Obama--he can't be a guy who inherited a mess and is trying to hold things together in the midst of insanity, he's got to be a spineless cipher, absolutely the worst thing on the face of the Earth. Maybe I'm just getting older, but I understand this mindset less and less all the time. (Unless it applies to Sarah Palin, who is absolutely the worst thing on the face of the Earth.)

i actually did feel conned by it. totally insulted. not as bad as a cameron crowe movie, but pretty close to it

I've seen it twice, and its appeal remains a mystery to me. "Freaks and Geeks" covered similar ground much better, to my mind. I don't think it's an especially interesting fim visually, or story-wise. It seems curiously flat to me; and not particularly funny or affecting. The saving grace is really Matthew McConaughey's character, and even he could have been funnier.

― Dell (Dell), Friday, November 18, 2005 9:21 AM (4 years ago) Bookmark

I don't think it succeeds particularly in capturing those times-- I was pretty disappointed overall with the way the milieu was established. Just having the girls wear those shirts that are tied around the midriff, and the boys tool around in muscle cars while constantly toking up to a soundtrack of Foghat, Peter frampton, etc. does not equal 1976. There should have been more cultural touchstones in the film.

And a movie which involved kids smoking pot and playing pinball should have been soooo much more visually interesting!

The scenes like the mailbox vandalism and the dumping paint on the Affleck character's head just came and went without making any real impression. And the dialogue given to the nerd-ish characters was a yawn compared to Freaks and Geeks. The awkwardness in the flirting/romantic scenes again seemed kinda empty/flat as well, and I thought came across better in Slackers.

A truly unfair comparison, I realize, since it was actually of the time, but if you go back and watch Over the Edge, I think it makes one realize how superficially Linklater portrayed the era...

― Dell (Dell), Friday, November 18, 2005 9:04 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permabanned

that's dell with TWO ls

this movie sucks, i am a genius, most people are cowardly

This is an experiment for a term paper, right?

no. i stand by what i say, in 2005 and today.

You were so much more...humanized in 2005.

i was in denial back then. brah.

Did you call people "brah" as much back then?

And so out of character for London.

― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, September 19, 2010 9:14 PM (5 days ago) Bookmark

OY dude thats the point .... its SUPPOSED to suggest that u dont really know whats actually going for these kids, like hey these parties sure look like good times w good friends & its one of the most REALISTIC lines in the film ...

I grew up in a mid-sized city in Texas. Dazed and Confused seemed remarkably true to life - change the fashion, eliminate hazing (not allowed by '96-7) and it could have been my high school.

What I've always appreciated most is that it's the only HS movie I know that realizes many cliques are fluid and the 'jocks and brains' aren't necessarily enemies.

OY dude thats the point .... its SUPPOSED to suggest that u dont really know whats actually going for these kids, like hey these parties sure look like good times w good friends & its one of the most REALISTIC lines in the film ...

Sorry, disagree. Not only is it so obviously set up as a thesis statement, but London's hurried delivery does it no favors.

It's been set up by the entire movie - he's seeing his world differently, rebelling in his little way, his football friends are going to be the guys looking back at this as their pussy and beer heyday.

but his behavior the entire movie is a rebellion.

You guys I totally have Floyd's shirt. Or close.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i191/fluxion23/floyd-shirt.jpg http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i191/fluxion23/floyd-shirt2.jpg

JC Penney collection, all the way.

k, do you wear it w/ one nipple showing?

I don't much wear it at all. It's 100% polyester. It's hot even when it's cold out.

Prompted by the above back-and-forth about Pink's big shoot-me line, I watched it again last night. The line didn't bother me at all. It's delivered as a throwaway--he gets up and says it as he's walking away from everyone--so it doesn't call attention to itself as a big statement. And I thought it was perfectly in character--besides the letter he won't sign, he concedes to Mitch that O'Bannion's a jerk, and he's just generally more detached than everyone else from all that goes on. That he'd sum up his high-school years acerbically makes sense to me. Dawson's little speech that comes right after ("while I was stuck in this place...") seems like more of a statement, and I thought that worked too.

I again liked it. But some of the same things that bothered me the first time still do. The idea that there's all this interaction between a class of high school seniors and a class of graduating middle schoolers verges on science-fiction based on my own background, but that's fine, I take it that it's different where Linklater came from. Putting that aside, I still think there's too much time spent on the hazing preamble. Stoner Guy really seemed like overkill this time, and Parker Posey's character is a one-note drag. I was wrong about Milla Jovovich; she blends in fine. McConaughey's so good. He's obviously Milner from [i]<American Graffiti/i>, but he stays true to this character the whole way (Milner gets a little soft towards the end of [i]<American Graffiti/i>). Anyway, the fact that I keep going back to this must mean it gets to me on some level.

on watch instantly now so go watch it now

hey! did you hear that? if we leave, we can't come back!

oh no! what should we do?

thanks. i -- i got my own car.

i'm working right now. for the city. i'm thinking of holding onto the job for a while. it's like, you know. money in my pocket.

hey, you cool, man?

uh, like how?

heh heh heh. okay.

alfred upthread is right that the two flattest parts of this entire movie are 1) the gilligan's island thing which is kevin smith level (although it's lol when the girls have a list of episodes on the blackboard) and 2) the abraham lincoln dream (blonde kid's delivery isn't up to it). "remind me to kill myself" is also delivered kinda flatly but i don't think it's out-of-character and the movie doesn't hinge on it; it's just that everyone quotes it.

can't speak for the 70s but lots of stuff in this movie -- the permeability of the cliques most teen movies pretend are like castes; the consensus disdain for people who take rituals too seriously; the fantastic throwaway scene where joey lauren adams tries to pretend she's as blase about being called a slut as parker posey is about being called a bitch; the way adam goldberg thinks he's funnier than he is -- is closer than anything else i've ever seen to what high school in the 00s was like.

blonde kid is anthony rapp iirc!

yrc (you recall correctly)

This is on the Criterion disc, hidden amongst the rehearsal footage. IMHO, some of Posey's finest minutes evah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjt5O1FeYUs

"You like my mirror? I made this myself."

wipe that face off your face, bitch

my crush in this movie is the revisionist history teacher pink's friend hits on, i would marry the shit out of her

especially when you learned that two years later she played CBGB's.

An exemplar of "The Cinema of Aimlessness":

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2011/10/26/dazed_and_confused_and_the_cinema_of_aimlessness.html

I can think of a number of films I'd put into such a category, but I don't think Dazed and Confused would be one of them. The characters may be aimless, but the film isn't--it's got good guys and bad guys, there's an organizing plot point--will Pink sign the coach's contract--and it all seems kind of classically structured to me.

Last word on this should go to Aimless.

The comments on the Slate post are...

Slacker would seem a lot more obvious a movie to label as aimless than D&C.

Oh wait - he did mention it. nm.

i really wished i liked this better, but it's such a comedown after slacker. i can't really knock it, it's got a lot of stuff going for it, but there are just so few revelations or moments of real inspiration.

That's how I feel about Slacker!

one problem is that jason london, as close as the film gets to a lead, isn't very strong. some of the smaller parts are really well-cast. i like the ribisi sister, and the total bro/pussy hound/jason london's best friend is good.

xpost

oh well!

slacker seems full of invention and surprise.

One of the film's strengths is knowing when to cut to another character before h/she starts to bore us. Every time, for example, I wish Parker Posey had gotten more screen time I realize that, no, she (and Ben Affleck) is used exactly when necessary and not a minute more.

i could have used one more short parker posey scene, but i take your point.

i dunno, this sounds pretentious but i don't get much of a "frisson" from this film, not all that many little moments or bits that make my mouth hang open or just make me smile for it being so "right." i get a lot of that from some of linklater's other movies.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/20130129scottsdale-police-arrest-actor-jason-london-fight-bar-abrk.html

London, known for his role as Randall Floyd in the film Dazed and Confused, allegedly sneezed on another man late Sunday night at the bar located near Scottsdale and Camelback roads... As he was being transported to a local jail, London continued to curse at the officer and defecated his pants in the vehicle intentionally, according to the report.

how the mighty are fallen

also shouldn't that be defecated *in his pants?

his face looks like someone defecated on it.

"defecated his pants" mirrors "shit his pants...valid grammarage imo

He should have signed that pledge.

always watch Dazed & Confused at this time of year
like summertime

“I actually didn’t try to get the song ‘Dazed and Confused,’” he said. “I don’t really like that song that much.”

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/11/20-years-later-at-the-new-york-film-festival-still-dazed-and-confused/

Last word on this should go to Aimless.

(clears throat, raises index finger in an authoritative manner)

Dazed is classic, but confused is dud.

o__0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCToLznWxoE

There are several more of those uploaded by the same guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m6zVLG0hIc

How is it there's no J. Geils in this movie?

Wow this is the horniest oral history I've ever read!

Haha, thanks for the link. I had always imagined there was a lot of hooking up going on that set but damn. Just rewatched this a few months ago, so it was interesting to have it more fresh in mind.

Didn't know about the book--gotta get that.

that was great, i had no idea they were boning all over the place lmao

but it makes me like the movie even more - and i already love it!

When we got to the hotel, it was like, not only do I get to play the coolest character in the world, but I’ve got this beautiful girlfriend that I get to sleep with every night.

Love how Affleck was the only one not getting any!

yes that was v lol

and that he thought the haircut was killing his game

Also he hadn’t had his teeth fixed yet

was very confused by Marissa Ribisi being in love with Jason Lee, who I could not remember being in Dazed & Confused (they meant Jason London)

That threw me for a minute too.

I had no idea Milla Jovovich was that young when this came out!

For real, I always thought she was one of the older cast members

No I think Ribissi was talking about being in love with Jason Lee as the reason she wasn’t interested in any of the actors on set.
xp

Ohhh, that makes more sense. I thought she was talking about his character in the movie and hers. They should have called Jason Lee a skateboarder in the parenthetical, he hadn't made Clerks yet.

Adam Goldberg is a very good podcast interview - so neurotic it seems like he might be unbearable in person but he can spin a good anecdote

was very confused by Marissa Ribisi being in love with Jason Lee, who I could not remember being in Dazed & Confused (they meant Jason London)

― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Tuesday, November 17, 2020 2:31 PM (twelve minutes ago)

No I think Ribissi was talking about being in love with Jason Lee as the reason she wasn’t interested in any of the actors on set.
xp

― mizzell, Tuesday, November 17, 2020 2:37 PM (five minutes ago)

Ribisi was only allowed to date fellow Scientologists hence Jason Lee.

Adam Goldberg is a very good podcast interview - so neurotic it seems like he might be unbearable in person but he can spin a good anecdote

Agreed! Seems like he'd be exhausting to hang around with for extended periods, but I do like hearing him tell stories from time to time.

the comment about Milla’s mom being on set as a guardian as some kind if deterrent is kinda lol bc iirc her mom was pretty checked out (maybe thinknng of a diff celeb mom tho)

Iirc, Ribisi was--like Jovovich--underage at the time, and Jason Lee actually was there in Austin as her guardian.

Ribisi was only allowed to date fellow Scientologists hence Jason Lee.

also being put in an arranged marriage to Beck as soon as he broke up with his non-₵lam girlfriend

Goldberg: We would hang out in the lobby, drinking beer and playing cards. I was with Jason Lee [Almost Famous] a lot. He wasn’t acting yet; he was skateboarding. But he was dating Marissa, and since she was seventeen, he came as her guardian. We would sort of run wild in the hotel.

From: www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/the-spirit-of-76-2/

^^Also in the book w/the Criterion DVD/Blu.

They should have called Jason Lee a skateboarder in the parenthetical, he hadn't made Clerks yet.

And he never would!

(agreed re "skateboarder")

Total derail, but if you didn't know who Jason Lee and/or Spike Jonze were in 1991, this is a clip from one of the best/most influential videos (in terms of riding/cinematography) of the genre at the time which led to both earning a much higher profile:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shKJ3kcSkh0

Shortly thereafter, McConaughey went to his parents' home in Houston, accompanied by producer Monnie Wills. At the funeral, his mother told everybody that Jim passed away while they were making love -- something his father had long predicted would happen -- even specifying that "he did get to finish."

Read More: The Amazing Story Behind 'Dazed and Confused''s Most Famous Line | https://ultimateclassicrock.com/dazed-and-confused-high-school-girls/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm&utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral

L-I-V-I-N indeed...

Fun fact: I grew up near Huntsville, TX. Both my parents worked there, went grocery shopping there, etc. It was the big city (we lived waaay out in the woods). I'm friends with the real Slater who in the movie is sort of a combination of him and his brother with a lot of fictionalized elements. If you mention the movie around him he'll start grumbling and whining which is usually pretty fun. He was thinking about trying to market Slater Bongs but the moment passed. At one point I was thinking about working at the prison to save up some money and he protested, letting me live with him rent free and giving me work, which likely saved my soul. As a tribute I got a tattoo that matches one he has. He knew a guy who knew a guy that could get weed so he kept me supplied when I needed it. Very good guy. A bit squirrelly.

Fantastic story.

I'm friends with the real Slater

That's pretty amazing...He's the iffiest character in the film for me; sometimes he works, sometimes he's a bit too much.

The real Slater, along with the real Wooderson and Pink, sued Linklater for using their names/likeness in the movie: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2004-10-10-0410100343-story.html

“ sometimes he works, sometimes he's a bit too much.”

This is a very good description of the real guy.

I don’t talk to him regularly because i’m not good at keeping up with people and... life. But I remember my mom telling me about the lawsuit and we laughed about it a while. They claimed that the movie hurt their reputation, but I know in Slater’s case most people wouldn’t have known about it if he wasn’t blabbing and complaining about it.

I’ve got a ton of Slater stories but I should probably hush up about him. He’s a great guy with a big heart who often makes confounding decisions.

catch you later

catch you later

not to worry: there's a new fiesta in the making as we speak

Let me tell ya this. The older you do get, the more rules they're gonna tryyyyy to get you. To fah-llow.

don't forget what you're celebrating

WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT? WIPE THAT FACE OFF YOUR HEAD, BITCH!

this is the Big Don/gabbneb test

George Washington was in the cult, and the cult was in the aliens

aw, gee, you hear that? if we leave, we can’t come back!

oh, no! what should we do?

I was getting there!

i read the new oral history book "alright, alright"; it's breezy and light but a fun read. best chapter was the one dedicated to how much everyone hated shawn andrews, who played pickford. he was so obnoxious that his role got cut way down in favor of mcconaughey, who had an obvious good presence/vibe. that's why wooderson is on the football field with them in the end even though it doesn't really make sense that this older guy would be hanging out on a high school football field.

also linklater seems like a pricklier guy than i expected

Read it too. Yeah, the Andrews chapter was good--no surprise he and Milla Jovovich were the only two who didn't participate in the book. Also thought the story of that metal band the producers tried to foist onto the film, along with the complete listing for the proposed soundtrack, was fascinating.

even though it doesn't really make sense that this older guy would be hanging out on a high school football field.

I don't know, as someone who went to high school in a small Midwestern town that revolved around high school football, it 100% checks out that a weird older guy might be hanging out on the football field with the current high school football stars.

I went to high school twenty years later than when the film was set and quite a ways away, geographically, but there were many parallels with my high school - most egregiously was the school sponsored and supported "freshman initiation" that was held on school grounds and included such "highlights" as the seniors rubbing skunk piss under the noses of freshmen and making some freshmen push pennies around toilet bowl rims with their tongues.

We got a new superintendent my junior year who immediately banned it, but it was shocking to see the degree with which the school administration either outright condoned and encouraged the initiation or turned their heads with a wink and a nod. So when the movie came out, also in my junior year, those initiation scenes hit hard.

in the book they talked to a lot of people who went to high school with linklater and a number of them said they saw the initiation scenes in the movie as traumatic rather than funny

I need to read this book, been on my list but haven't gotten around to it. I can definitely see that.

Thanks for hipping me to the existence of that book, y'all. Had no idea it existed.

At some point I'll dig my old Film Threats out of whatever box they're in and scan the long article/interview re: D&C that came out prior to the film's release.

Gotta finish making it through Caste before I can start Alright Alright. Looking forward to it though!

it 100% checks out that a weird older guy might be hanging out on the football field with the current high school football stars.

Well, yeah.

Always loved the little detail that one of the cops who picks them up was Wooderson's teammate.

Almost finished the oral history myself, a really fun read. The Andrews chapter was crazy, everyone hated him. I loved Rory Cochrane's quote, "If all the people in this book are all saying the same thing about him? That's fucking karma."

Any good Slater stories in there?

xp Ex-son-in-law of Galina Jovovich.

(people that wrote their own IMDB entry?)

Most of the talk with Rory Cochrane was about how he didn't really relate to the Slater character and it pissed him off to be called in for every stoner movie ever after it came out, he even almost turned down Empire Records.

The best parts of the book, imho, are how the studios just completely botched the marketing and totally misunderstood the market and reading just how many of the actors ultimately looked back on the filming as a real special time in their lives. I was surprised by how much Ben Affleck participated.

I'm sure I've mentioned it in this thread, but I lived with the real Slater for a while and we have matching tattoos.

I remember when the movie came out, the imagery behind it looked horrible (posters, VHS covers, etc). Total WACKY HIPPY vibes. It still looks cruddy, my parents know some of those people and I bought my mom a copy on DVD and the look of it put her off so much I don't think she's ever watched it.

the rare making-of book that increased the mystique of the movie for me

I bet Nicky Katt's done something better.

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/a094ea85-68eb-4f98-b455-0d160144e673_1.047be11dffbca4198e1f342cd55fad08.jpeg

yeah the poster/box art for the movie was very 90’s hippie revival

the criterion version came with a great Frank Kozik poster that should have been the official art

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=frank+kozik+dazed+confused&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.worthpoint.com%2Fzoom%2Fimages1%2F1%2F0922%2F07%2Fdazed-confused-original-film-poster_1_ba954484d2d09ccc65ad393d8fecfd17.jpg

well shit

https://sothebys-md.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/380b2cc/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1288x2000+0+0/resize/2048x3180!/quality/90/?url=https:%2F%2Fsothebys-md.brightspotcdn.com%2F8f%2F0b%2Fa3ddd47e4895b6543a1f5d9f358a%2Fl19985-b9yct-01.jpg

oh that rules

right?

I have my copy hanging up in my home office. It’s the best

that criterion release was gorgeous: elaborate yearbook conceit w led zep 3 style picture windows

have it, love it, waiting til my wife gets home to watch

that criterion release was gorgeous: elaborate yearbook conceit w led zep 3 style picture windows

yes! have most of my old DVDs in CD wallets now, but I kept the full package of that one - now want to find it to see if I still have the Kozik poster, would def frame.

Just ordered a copy of that oral history as it sounds amazing and am a fan of Maerz's work