Mel Gibson's APOCALYPTO!

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What the fuck.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 15:15 (twenty years ago)

It would make more sense if that was his new dance.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 15:17 (twenty years ago)

Only Mel Gibson could make the fall of the Aztec empire seem quaint and dull.

― Dan (FFS) Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 15:20 (twenty years ago)

Supposed to be the Mayans, I gather. Filmed, but of course, in Mayan.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 15:22 (twenty years ago)

Bah, I just guessed because I couldn't be bothered to actually investigate after that horrible trailer.

― Dan (My Second Guess Was Inca) Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

His next film should be a combination sequel where William Wallace, Jesus and Mr. Apocalypto all take on Galacticus.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

Mel Gibson's M. Night Shmalayan's Signs II: The Fightback

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 15:25 (twenty years ago)

quaint?

i think it looks pretty cool!

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 15:26 (twenty years ago)

I blame the people who gave him that fucking Oscar for "Braveheart"; had he gotten one for "Lethal Weapon" we would be living in a much better world.

― Dan (More Wacky, Less "Important") Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

I can't wait for the egregious overuse of slow motion to let us know when something dramatic is going on.

― mike h. (mike h.), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 15:37 (twenty years ago)

So is this about the coming of the Conquistadors or the decline of the classic Maya empire that preceded it? I couldn't decipher from the clip who the bad guys were.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 15:55 (twenty years ago)

I think all films from now on should be called "So and so's APOCALYPTO".

― melton mowbray (adr), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

Prediction: Mad TV (if that's still a show*) will do "Jimmy Buffet's AOCALYPSO" parody.

*If not, it will come back on the air just to make a stupid pun.

― D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 16:06 (twenty years ago)

They should call it "Jimmy Buffet's APOCALYPSO NOW" and kill two birds with one stone.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 21 December 2005 16:10 (twenty years ago)

but that's actually funny.

― D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

Dan Perry on a motherfucking mountain of money.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

the characters in lethal weapon and braveheart are basically the same arent they?

― ryan (ryan), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 16:24 (twenty years ago)

Ah'm gettin too old fur aw this shite

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 16:26 (twenty years ago)

I think all films from now on should be called "So and so's APOCALYPTO".

There is wisdom here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)

Ned Raggett's Apocalypto!

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

It would be five hours long and somewhat bloody.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

I thought he was making a Hannukah movie next.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

haha freezeframe that trailer at 1:46 for a real shock

― jones (actual), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

I thought he was making a Hannukah movie next.

Does it really surprise you that this would be Mel Gibson's idea of a Hannukah movie?

― Dan (Come On Now) Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

haha freezeframe that trailer at 1:46 for a real shock

Screencap and post it, you know you want to.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:19 (twenty years ago)

i don't know how :(

if he had pulled this trick with the jesus trailer it might have actually been funny

― jones (actual), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:21 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha, so good.

― melton mowbray (adr), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:28 (twenty years ago)

http://blackzarak.co.uk/adi/upload/upload_files/apocalypto.jpg

― melton mowbray (adr), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:30 (twenty years ago)

Mel was outacted in Lethal Weapon by his hair.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

Mel Gibson as Mike Watt in The Minutemen: Quest for Glory

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:32 (twenty years ago)

he looks like saddam

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:33 (twenty years ago)

Yeah wtf - is he going through a reverse Peter Jackson?

― melton mowbray (adr), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:34 (twenty years ago)

I take it back; this movie is now awesome.

― Dan (Woah) Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

"I'm using all my Passion money to go INSANE!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:37 (twenty years ago)

Surely "INSANE-R!!!"?

― Dan (Grizzly Adams Done Lost His Mind) Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:42 (twenty years ago)

Well, granted.

I kinda hope he narrates the movie that way.

"Hi y'all! *spits* I just wanted to tell yew about a story I heard one day when hanging around with extras from "The Wild Boys" video."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 December 2005 18:44 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...

Okay, the world stopped making sense.

His last film, The Passion of the Christ, was spoken entirely in the dead languages of Latin and Aramaic. Now Mel Gibson will appear in a brief spot on this Sunday’s Oscar broadcast speaking another exotic tongue: Maya.

Not since Michael Caine accepted his Oscar from the set of Jaws: The Revenge!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 3 March 2006 20:06 (nineteen years ago)

BTW, I love this:

And the obvious care that has been taken with costumes, sets and the dialect-correct language suggests the kind of cultural attention filmdom has rarely if ever accorded the Mayas, who were the Greeks of the New World.

That last phrase is provided, then resolutely unexplained.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 3 March 2006 20:07 (nineteen years ago)

Can't wait for the sequel, My Big Fat Mayan Wedding

― latebloomer: where dignity goes to die (latebloomer), Friday, 3 March 2006 20:25 (nineteen years ago)

the Mayas, who were the Greeks of the New World.

http://www.stfrancis.edu/en/marzec/loq01/mb1.jpg

― phil d. (Phil D.), Friday, 3 March 2006 20:26 (nineteen years ago)

The REAL Passion of the Christ

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 3 March 2006 20:26 (nineteen years ago)

Google Image Search gives very different results for "Greek homosexual" v. "Greek anal," if anyone wondered. VERY different.

― phil d. (Phil D.), Friday, 3 March 2006 20:32 (nineteen years ago)

Greeks: Euclid, Socrates, Archimedes, Plato, Sophocles, Aristotle, etc etc etc

Mayans: Chocolate

WTF????????

― Raw, Uncompromising, and Noodly (noodle vague), Friday, 3 March 2006 22:30 (nineteen years ago)

I really didn't think this day would come. When I saw the trailer I thought, oh, now that DOES NOT exist.

― rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Friday, 3 March 2006 22:52 (nineteen years ago)

My first impression was that he'd moved from the Jesus flick to the Book of Mormon madness, Lamanites and all that. Wack either way. And why isn't he releasing it Dec. 21, 2012, when the Mayans predicted the world would end? The Omen remakers had the good sense (if only in this one area) to take advantage of the sweet 6/6/06 release date.

― Abbott (Abbott), Friday, 3 March 2006 23:57 (nineteen years ago)

I am reasonably certain that this is all a cover-up for the real Apocalypto movie:

Apocalypto the Superdog!

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Saturday, 4 March 2006 01:39 (nineteen years ago)

To me, this is the ONLY film of 2006.

― melton mowbray's APOCALYPTO! (adr), Saturday, 4 March 2006 02:13 (nineteen years ago)

I MEAN COME ON!

http://blackzarak.co.uk/adi/upload/upload_files/apocalypto.jpg

― melton mowbray's APOCALYPTO! (adr), Saturday, 4 March 2006 02:14 (nineteen years ago)

This is probably going to be the best place to track this thing:

http://apocalyptowatch.blogspot.com/

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 4 March 2006 02:22 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.americanpapist.com/apoc/header.png

Does the chap in the background play autoharp in this film?

― melton mowbray's APOCALYPTO! (adr), Saturday, 4 March 2006 02:35 (nineteen years ago)

That picture (of him with the made-up people) is NOT REAL. I mean. I just. No.

― rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Saturday, 4 March 2006 03:15 (nineteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

"Attention! We are all dying here! We are all dying!"

― j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 19 March 2006 21:08 (nineteen years ago)

I don't want to question this because I know damn well we don't live in a world of equal access for all but this bit:

Hundreds of local extras—many of whom have never seen a movie, let alone acted in one

I've seen again and again in press mentions now, and it makes it sound like his extras are some sorta freakin' noble savages.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 19 March 2006 21:12 (nineteen years ago)

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2006/0603/amapocalypto0319.jpg

MEL, WHERE'S YOUR BEARD?

Absence of facial hair is a worry, but I'm sure the man knows what he's doing. Or doesn't, as the case may be. Beardo or clean-shaven, he's still my hero.

― melton mowbray's APOCALYPTO! (adr), Sunday, 19 March 2006 22:44 (nineteen years ago)

if there was any justice in the world, this, snakes on a plane, and the ice cube welcome back, kotter film would be condensed into one brilliant film.

― stockholm cindy is a guy with a belly button piercing (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 22:51 (nineteen years ago)

Mel Gibson's APOCALYTPO SNAKES ON KOTTER!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 19 March 2006 22:56 (nineteen years ago)

this is gonna be the best year ever

― stockholm cindy is a guy with a belly button piercing (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 19 March 2006 22:57 (nineteen years ago)

JBROTM

― melton mowbray's APOCALYPTO! (adr), Sunday, 19 March 2006 23:09 (nineteen years ago)

if there was any justice in the world, this, snakes on a plane, and the ice cube welcome back, kotter film would be condensed into one brilliant film.

-- stockholm cindy is a guy with a belly button piercing (theundergroundhom...), March 19th, 2006.

otm! otm! otm!

― latebloomer is a belly with a guy pierce in it (latebloomer), Sunday, 19 March 2006 23:47 (nineteen years ago)

APOCALYPSO!

http://www.hipwax.com/music/M_fig/calyps04.jpg

― amateurist0, Monday, 20 March 2006 01:19 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

http://www.apple.com/trailers/touchstone/apocalypto/large.html

Uhm.

Huh.

― kingfish doesn't live here anymore (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 28 April 2006 05:36 (nineteen years ago)

Decemeber? When's that?

― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Friday, 28 April 2006 10:09 (nineteen years ago)

two months pass...

Mel's gunna donate to help folks rebuild in Veracruz

― kingfish cyclopean ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 14 July 2006 21:52 (nineteen years ago)

Good for Mel, I guess.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 14 July 2006 21:58 (nineteen years ago)

I've seen again and again in press mentions now, and it makes it sound like his extras are some sorta freakin' noble savages.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), March 19th, 2006.

Well, that'd make Gibson no worse than Werner Herzog

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Friday, 14 July 2006 22:08 (nineteen years ago)

I seriously doubt that Burden of the Apocalypse is going to be ANYWHERE near as good though.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 14 July 2006 22:11 (nineteen years ago)

A more interesting film that Mel will apparently be a part of: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478304/

― starke (starke), Saturday, 15 July 2006 03:07 (nineteen years ago)

Is that Malick title for real?

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Saturday, 15 July 2006 07:27 (nineteen years ago)

It's a working title, but I wouldn't be surprised if he kept it. From what I read, Malick and Gibson are good friends.

― starke (starke), Saturday, 15 July 2006 21:13 (nineteen years ago)

(If you meant title = the movie, then yeah, definitely real)

― starke (starke), Saturday, 15 July 2006 21:14 (nineteen years ago)

well that looks ambitious.

― ryan (ryan), Saturday, 15 July 2006 22:36 (nineteen years ago)

Isn't Mallick's next film due in about 2015?

― chap who would dare to start Raaatpackin (chap), Sunday, 16 July 2006 18:58 (nineteen years ago)

I can't really tell if this is going to be any good. I DO think the world needs more awesome epic movies about pre-Columbian civilizations, I just have concerns about the awesomeness of this one.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Sunday, 16 July 2006 19:03 (nineteen years ago)

two months pass...

"Gibson had originally cancelled the screenings but changed his mind and arrived wearing a mask and wig."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 25 September 2006 13:13 (nineteen years ago)

Am I wrong on so many levels for kind of sort of wanting to see this?

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Monday, 25 September 2006 13:15 (nineteen years ago)

Am I betraying both my Jewish heritage and my pretensions of taste?

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Monday, 25 September 2006 13:16 (nineteen years ago)

Does it really surprise you that this would be Mel Gibson's idea of a Hannukah movie?

-- Dan (Come On Now) Perry (djper...com), December 21st, 2005.

After everything since now I really want this to be the case!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 25 September 2006 13:17 (nineteen years ago)

Am I betraying both my Jewish heritage and my pretensions of taste?

Ancient Mayan Action Yarn > all sense of integrity.

So no.

― The Ultimate Conclusion (lokar), Monday, 25 September 2006 13:35 (nineteen years ago)

"Gibson had originally cancelled the screenings but changed his mind and arrived wearing a mask and wig."

how AMAZING would it be if Mel turned up in a Melton Mowbray mask and wig?

― teh_kit (g-kit), Monday, 25 September 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

For some reason when I first read that sentence I thought they meant he showed up in a MAYAN mask and wig.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Monday, 25 September 2006 13:51 (nineteen years ago)

There's always chuckling in the theatre during the preview when the immortal title APOCALYPTO appears from out of the solar flare....

You just can't resist saying it out loud in the booming preview voice!

― paizuri-san (davidcorp), Monday, 25 September 2006 14:06 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

The big sell begins.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:00 (nineteen years ago)

One of those is actor Edward James Olmos, a leading voice in Latino cultural affairs, who said he was invited by Gibson to an early screening. Olmos, who brought along his grown son, Bodie, said he was unprepared for what he saw.

"I was totally caught off guard," Olmos said in a recent phone interview from the set of "Battlestar Galactica" in Vancouver, Canada. "It's arguably the best movie I've seen in years. I was blown away."

Adama, nooooooooooooooooooooo!

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:12 (nineteen years ago)

Fighting all those Cylons must have gotten to him. Or he raided Tighe's drinks cabinet.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:13 (nineteen years ago)

omg, that's exactly what i said!! whhhhyyyyy??
xpost

and then i srsly began to reconsider my take on this movie. even though i've laughed every time i've seen the preview. such is the hold battlestar has on me. damn.
also xpost

― rrrobyn, the situation (rrrobyn), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:14 (nineteen years ago)

I would do anything for Bill Adama, except watch Apocalypto.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:16 (nineteen years ago)

this is a great thread.

i am totally seeing this movie no matter what.

― researching ur life (grady), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:18 (nineteen years ago)

i didn't see ONE Jew in the preview.

figures.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:18 (nineteen years ago)

visually it looks pretty impressive, judging by the trailer

― latebloomer: not to be confused with the dolphin from Seaquest DSV (latebloomer), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:22 (nineteen years ago)

are there any Conquistadors in this thing?

― researching ur life (grady), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:25 (nineteen years ago)

Nope -- it's set in pre-Columbian times.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:26 (nineteen years ago)

any crucifixions?

― researching ur life (grady), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:27 (nineteen years ago)

i'm sure they'll be plenty heart-sacrifices, or at least one or two

― latebloomer: not to be confused with the dolphin from Seaquest DSV (latebloomer), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:37 (nineteen years ago)

Olmos's kid is on nu-Battlestar, too, right? i finally watched the pilot movie last night.

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 13 November 2006 19:50 (nineteen years ago)

god help me i am kind of excited about this

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:05 (nineteen years ago)

Heart sacrifices? That's kid stuff! FULL ON ROYAL GENITAL MUTILATION PLEASE!

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:07 (nineteen years ago)

This was by far the least appealing trailor seen before Borat.

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:08 (nineteen years ago)

?? no wai. "pick of destiny", ugh.

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:10 (nineteen years ago)

they've been pimping this thing for over a year now wtf. first preview i saw was before MUNICH at christmastime for chrissakes.

― bo janglin (dubplatestyle), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:13 (nineteen years ago)

Just gearing up for them Oscars, don't you know.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:15 (nineteen years ago)

Pick of Destiny will RUEL.

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:16 (nineteen years ago)

Soundtrack feat. Celine Dion's "My Heart Will Get Ripped Out"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 November 2006 20:16 (nineteen years ago)

ok why do i want to see this so bad? what's wrong with me?

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 03:36 (nineteen years ago)

Give in, give in. (I still haven't decided myself.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 04:45 (nineteen years ago)

i propose gathering a group of a few dozen people to attend the opening all nerded-out in full-on Mayan gear.

― researching ur life (grady), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 05:45 (nineteen years ago)

ha, the new fanbase will be called 'Lyptoids

― latebloomer: not to be confused with the dolphin from Seaquest DSV (latebloomer), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 06:00 (nineteen years ago)

it'll be a week-long bizarre internet fad that will fizzle 3 seconds after the movie premiers.

― latebloomer: not to be confused with the dolphin from Seaquest DSV (latebloomer), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 06:06 (nineteen years ago)

Does crucial.bonus live in Seattle? I was gonna boo after the trailer, but it would've woken everyone else.

― From the Moon to Pluto Back Down to Earth (Rrrickey), Wednesday, 15 November 2006 11:08 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

so, this got really good reviews in the UK as well as getting the worst written review i think i've ever seen in print, from Philip French in the Observer. a bafflingly long and pointless career summary followed by a bafflingly long and pointless plot summary.

http://film.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/Critic_Review/Observer_Film_of_the_week/0,,1980473,00.html

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 8 January 2007 18:40 (nineteen years ago)

I spoke to Melton yesterday, he says he has seen this now. He's in it, right?

― teh_kit (g-kit), Monday, 8 January 2007 18:49 (nineteen years ago)

That Observer review is, indeed, the worst fucking review I have ever read outside of a student paper. It's not even a review. Baffling.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 11 January 2007 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

all of philip french's reviews are like that these days, srsly. occasionally he throws in an irrelevant anecdote about a film review he wrote in the seventies.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 11 January 2007 13:55 (nineteen years ago)

Bloody hell.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:00 (nineteen years ago)

this is from this week, and bafflingly personal:

"The saddest thing about this unpleasant, mirthless film is that it's photographed by Anthony Richmond, the British cinematographer who shot Nicolas Roeg's Don't Look Now, The Man Who Fell to Earth and Bad Timing. I suppose this is the kind of thing you have to do after you've married and been divorced by one of Charlie's Angels."

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

"Many people have the feeling that they're not entirely free to act and are being manipulated by outside forces (some call themselves Marxists, others are diagnosed as schizophrenic)."

ZING!

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

The saddest thing about this unpleasant, mirthless film

I don't think anyone involved was aiming for mirth.

― onimo (onimo), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

oh sorry naw that was from a review of the jessica simpson comedy 'employee of the month'.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

though the parallels are striking.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:04 (nineteen years ago)

― onimo (onimo), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:05 (nineteen years ago)

Phillip french is rubbish, his reviews are always a plot summary, sometimes even giving away twists, then a little bit at the end where he tries to impress you with his arcane knowledge of cinema: "interestingly, the first AD on this picture also worked with Altman in the 80s", that sort of thing.

Apocalypto's cracking, by the way.

― chap (chap), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

it is!

and it's not even mirthless!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 11 January 2007 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

Does it include the blink-and-you'll-miss-Mel shot from the trailer?

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:05 (nineteen years ago)

The first half - I feared for Mel's sanity tbh. It struck me that maybe he doesn't really have a Christian manifesto, he just loves torture. The first hour is simply looting, rape, pillaging, struggle, fighting, and torture after bloody torture. Then it perks up in the second half for the chase scene. Yeh the jaguar scene is a bit tacky with the guy's face being mauled by what looks like a Beanie Baby. And the guy does get himself out of a few jammy scrapes (escaping from quicksand, being "helped" by an angry panther and surviving an enormous waterfall plunge Fugitive-style) but that doesn't matter because it is a very exciting chase.

So all in all - 50% snoozy bloodlust, 50% exciting but shakily executed chase.

― wogan lenin (dog latin), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:07 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, he could've easily cut ten minutes or so from the capture sequence. The march through the city was extrordinary, though.

― chap (chap), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:13 (nineteen years ago)

It struck me that maybe he doesn't really have a Christian manifesto, he just loves torture.

Western civilization 2007 right there.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 11 January 2007 15:13 (nineteen years ago)

one month passes...

are there any Conquistadors in this thing?

researching ur life (grady) on maandag 13 november 2006 20:25 (3 months ago)
Nope -- it's set in pre-Columbian times.

so who are the people on the boat at the end of the film?

i thought it was a horrendous pile of dung. the only positive emotion i got: a giggle when the guy was running to the jungle pretending to be anthony kiedis.

― nathalie, Saturday, 10 March 2007 13:31 (eighteen years ago)

i was watching an interview with carine roitfeld @ f/w 07 collections and she said the headpieces @ gaultier and balenciaga were very apocalypto and it was the film of reference for the season. i want to see this now!

― daria-g, Saturday, 10 March 2007 17:56 (eighteen years ago)

tapir balls.

'sall i'm saying

― latebloomer, Saturday, 10 March 2007 17:59 (eighteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

Apparently Mel might still have anger management issues.

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 24 March 2007 20:08 (eighteen years ago)

that article is ridiculously vague. surely they could have gotten some specifics, like uh what exactly the question was?

― s1ocki, Saturday, 24 March 2007 20:13 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, I'd want to hear/see some more. Surprised there's nothing on YouTube yet!

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 24 March 2007 20:14 (eighteen years ago)

six months pass...

Saw this the other night. Thought I was going to be bored because the capture scene went on a bit, but as it got going it ruled. The city scene is amazing. Costumes deserved triple oscars. Those people with the elaborate headdresses and shaved foreheads!

― Beth Parker, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 00:39 (eighteen years ago)

the movie i hate to love!

― s1ocki, Tuesday, 16 October 2007 02:00 (eighteen years ago)

four months pass...

yeah so this basically fucking ruled. I watched it through twice yesterday, once with commentary. gibson is, uh, kind of a crypto-bigot, wow.

― El Tomboto, Monday, 25 February 2008 23:34 (seventeen years ago)

Hahah, any choice phrases?

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 25 February 2008 23:34 (seventeen years ago)

“Sharp-toothed Lithuanians armed with baseball bats are crawling across the beach into your house. What should we do with them? We have to fight back.”

― da croupier, Monday, 25 February 2008 23:35 (seventeen years ago)

"crypto"

― latebloomer, Monday, 25 February 2008 23:35 (seventeen years ago)

"kind of"

― Jordan, Monday, 25 February 2008 23:36 (seventeen years ago)

i will say this once more:

TAPIR BALLZ

― latebloomer, Monday, 25 February 2008 23:36 (seventeen years ago)

this was all in all a pretty enjoyable action flick. certainly better than that shitty jesus movie.

― latebloomer, Monday, 25 February 2008 23:39 (seventeen years ago)

so who are the people on the boat at the end of the film?

christopher columbus, played by the set designer, and a franciscan monk played by the film's armorer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyages_of_Christopher_Columbus#Fourth_voyage

― El Tomboto, Monday, 25 February 2008 23:40 (seventeen years ago)

I just thought it was funny that mel could only remember like three of his actors' names from the whole movie. I mean he did remember a lot of details about so many of the people who worked on the film but clearly in his brain everybody was probably pedro 1, pedro 2, frank, pedro 8, carlito, pedro 26, fast pedro, old pedro, etc.

― El Tomboto, Monday, 25 February 2008 23:42 (seventeen years ago)

I checked this out of the library and watched it the other night, up to the point where the hero escapes and clambers through the pit of corpses. Right there I could see the entire remainder of the film would be an extended chase scene, so I bailed out.

Mel's POV as a writer and director is simple, simple, simple. The whole plot could be written on a napkin. However, the costumes for this film were utterly, jaw-droppingly fabulous! I can't rave enough about the costumes. The set design, cinematography and editing were all pretty darn good, too, but the costumes were mesmerizing. Loved 'em all.

Bottom line: I still couldn't finish watching the movie. Too reductive and too predictable.

― Aimless, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 01:41 (seventeen years ago)

you missed some amazing, amazing sequences from the chase, though.

― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 01:42 (seventeen years ago)

but if I didn't love, love, love well-filmed pursuit action I probably wouldn't rate stuff like the warriors and behind enemy lines in my top x for all time

― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 01:44 (seventeen years ago)

i forgot about this!
i will like all chase stuff, i'm sure

― rrrobyn, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 02:39 (seventeen years ago)

is this sort of like The Naked Prey?

― gershy, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 03:15 (seventeen years ago)

Is it going to disgust me with all its "lol mayan empire collapse under own perversion!"?

― Laurel, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 03:22 (seventeen years ago)

Bottom line: I still couldn't finish watching the movie. Too reductive and too predictable.

-- Aimless, Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:41 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

pretty rich to call a movie predictable when you didn't watch it all the way through.

― s1ocki, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 03:23 (seventeen years ago)

Maybe he predicted he was going to stop watching.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 03:26 (seventeen years ago)

this film plays like a tribute to the color green. the nonstop lush action on acid worth any melophobia. loved it.

― Cosmo Vitelli, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 04:20 (seventeen years ago)

Laurel it's more like "lol mayan empire collapse under own fixation on building stuff out of cement"

― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 04:23 (seventeen years ago)

pretty rich to call a movie predictable when you didn't watch it all the way through.

slocki, you don't seem to appreciate how simple-minded Mel is as a storyteller. When the storyline is laid out like a plank road for an hour, you can predict it's not going to suddenly change into a cloverleaf freeway exchange.

― Aimless, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 19:36 (seventeen years ago)

this asshole does not deserve any of your money

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 20:11 (seventeen years ago)

did they harvest the organs of their prisoners for transplant? because this guy calls it the mayan protocol.

― Hunt3r, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 20:14 (seventeen years ago)

xxx-post

hahaha you didn't make it to the twist!

*SPOILERS*it's all a hallucination being experienced by Jesus on the cross at the end of the Passion*SPOILERS*

― latebloomer, Tuesday, 26 February 2008 20:19 (seventeen years ago)

four months pass...

Hey dudes. I'm watching this now. It's kinda not bad, but not so great that I'm too enthralled to be posting while watching. I like the imaginative rendering of Mayan civ, although there's plenty of stuff that's hard to buy (doing dozens of sacrifices one after the other, for example.)

It's a boilerplate macho man epic, but not without its fun.

― Hurting 2, Sunday, 13 July 2008 04:13 (seventeen years ago)

there's something amateurish-looking about some of the cinematography, like parts of it look like a tv mini series or something

― Hurting 2, Sunday, 13 July 2008 04:18 (seventeen years ago)

i didn't find. elaborate?

― s1ocki, Sunday, 13 July 2008 09:30 (seventeen years ago)

two weeks pass...

Ending was a bit Lord of the Flies-sy.

― Pleasant Plains, Monday, 28 July 2008 16:35 (seventeen years ago)

I thought it was a pretty good historical action movie. Mel knows how to film action scenes - I guess he's worked with some of the best in the business, and he was apparently paying attention. The historical color was interesting and the vision of the Maya as a bloodthirsty, decadent civilization ripe for overthrow was intriguing. Bears comparison to "Road Warrior" for its extended chase scene and costume design.

― o. nate, Monday, 28 July 2008 18:44 (seventeen years ago)

I read that last sentence three times wondering to myself, "what scene had a bear in it?"

― Pleasant Plains, Monday, 28 July 2008 18:49 (seventeen years ago)

Sorry, there was an implicit "It" at the beginning of that sentence.

― o. nate, Monday, 28 July 2008 18:54 (seventeen years ago)

tim curry's in this too? omg does he wrestle the bears!?

― latebloomer, Monday, 28 July 2008 18:55 (seventeen years ago)

Dude, he IS the bear.

― Pleasant Plains, Monday, 28 July 2008 19:05 (seventeen years ago)

Bears comparison to the Bad News Bears.

― s1ocki, Monday, 28 July 2008 19:33 (seventeen years ago)

Saw this last night, thought it was pretty good if a little naive.

The non-fight/chase-scene cinematography was pretty epic.

― Steve Shasta, Monday, 4 August 2008 22:17 (seventeen years ago)

five months pass...

this film is coming up on Behind Enemy Lines in my will absolutely watch this anytime anywhere top ten list. it's on some cable movie channel right now and I have just decided that my ideal technique for daydream violence needs to be me showing up covered in mud and pitching a nest full of hornets at whomever (former "bosses," former "colleagues," friedman, brooks, norquist, etc)

― TOMBOT, Saturday, 10 January 2009 07:28 (seventeen years ago)

I mean really why try to be all kill bill fancy ninja sword shit when there's free mud and stingmaster bug bombs all over the place

― TOMBOT, Saturday, 10 January 2009 07:30 (seventeen years ago)

pretty dope movie imo

― and what, Saturday, 10 January 2009 07:33 (seventeen years ago)

how long do you think you have to spend running around and hunting in forests before you learn how to pluck your own dud arrows out of tree trunks on the jog?

― TOMBOT, Saturday, 10 January 2009 07:37 (seventeen years ago)

the army is a pretty bullshit institution if u cant get some funding to answer that very question

― Lamp, Saturday, 10 January 2009 07:40 (seventeen years ago)

haha lamp I almost added a line about how I think that exact kind of thing is why nugent-flavored white guys always seem to fill the ranks of delta, seals et al.

― TOMBOT, Saturday, 10 January 2009 07:42 (seventeen years ago)

if I started a thread devoted to the discussion of films wherein the protag is basically a schmo who must use resourcefulness and luck to evade a pursuing cadre of elite(s) killers through foreign territory, would it get any posts

― TOMBOT, Saturday, 10 January 2009 07:46 (seventeen years ago)

Might degenerate into arguments about that genre v schmo who turns tables on his assailants (Straw Dogs, 28 Days Later, etc...)

― Gukbe, Saturday, 10 January 2009 09:15 (seventeen years ago)

― TOMBOT, Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:46 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i'd hit it

― s1ocki, Saturday, 10 January 2009 16:57 (seventeen years ago)

I admit I find it hard to think of the title character in Predator as a schmo.

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 10 January 2009 17:00 (seventeen years ago)

he's probably a schmo to the other predators... that's why he's stuck hunting humans and doesn't even win

― s1ocki, Saturday, 10 January 2009 17:06 (seventeen years ago)

― TOMBOT, Saturday, January 10, 2009 7:46 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i'd hit it

― s1ocki, Saturday, January 10, 2009 11:57 AM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yah im w/this

― ice cr?m, Saturday, 10 January 2009 17:09 (seventeen years ago)

btw <3 apocalypto

― ice cr?m, Saturday, 10 January 2009 17:10 (seventeen years ago)

the movie i hate to love!

― s1ocki, Tuesday, October 16, 2007 2:00 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― s1ocki, Saturday, 10 January 2009 17:21 (seventeen years ago)

im sort of proud of my iconoclastic love for this movie tbh

― ice cr?m, Saturday, 10 January 2009 17:23 (seventeen years ago)

ˆˆi never got past 30 minutes of watching this tbh.

― csa, Saturday, 10 January 2009 17:27 (seventeen years ago)

i love the scene going through the different mayan neighbourhoods

― s1ocki, Saturday, 10 January 2009 17:31 (seventeen years ago)

I watched Gladiator last night for the first time and the whole asshole-royalty-appeasing-the-masses-in-CGI sure looks the same in every movie.

― •--• --- --- •--• (Pleasant Plains), Saturday, 10 January 2009 19:22 (seventeen years ago)

man i hate gladiator

― tired (latebloomer), Sunday, 11 January 2009 04:02 (seventeen years ago)

such a boring, ugly movie.

― tired (latebloomer), Sunday, 11 January 2009 04:03 (seventeen years ago)

Apocalypto however was way better than it should have been

― tired (latebloomer), Sunday, 11 January 2009 04:07 (seventeen years ago)

otm otm otm

― s1ocki, Sunday, 11 January 2009 04:28 (seventeen years ago)

gladiator rules u guys r crazy

― ice cr?m, Monday, 12 January 2009 04:16 (seventeen years ago)

if I started a thread devoted to the discussion of films wherein the protag is basically a schmo who must use resourcefulness and luck to evade a pursuing cadre of elite(s) killers through foreign territory, would it get any posts
― TOMBOT, Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:46 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is basically the only kind of movie i watch so i would be down

― ﾞ（ﾟ､｡７ (cankles), Monday, 12 January 2009 04:18 (seventeen years ago)

eleven months pass...

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118012680.html?categoryid=13&cs=1

― krampus activities (latebloomer), Monday, 14 December 2009 11:09 (sixteen years ago)

i had an argument about apocalypto at a party with a bunch of drunk classical archaeologists a few days ago. we had to go find a mesoamericanist to answer our questions about human sacrifice. however if he made a movie about vikings i could be THE party expert! ("period drama about viking culture" hahaha)

― Maria, Monday, 14 December 2009 13:01 (sixteen years ago)

So what's happening is

Mel Gibson's RAGNAROK!

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 December 2009 14:07 (sixteen years ago)

are they gonna be talking Viking in this?

― I regret choosing this bland user name (peter in montreal), Monday, 14 December 2009 17:29 (sixteen years ago)

one month passes...

could have lost most of the first 45 minutes, but the prisoner march onwards this was a thrill!

― caek, Monday, 1 February 2010 10:20 (sixteen years ago)

I still have not seen this, but it sounds great.

I know it has been said before, but it is great the way every Mel Gibson film ends with main character being sadistically killed.

― The New Dirty Vicar, Monday, 1 February 2010 15:46 (sixteen years ago)

ya it was a bit shocking in "what women want" tho

― brews before HOOS (s1ocki), Monday, 1 February 2010 15:46 (sixteen years ago)

haha, i like how all his great films are really just 2 hour chase sequences: mad max 2, apocalypto, passion of the christ

― caek, Monday, 1 February 2010 15:47 (sixteen years ago)

is this worth watching on bbc2 at 10, y or n?

― 80085 (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 14 February 2010 21:18 (sixteen years ago)

yes

― snoocki (s1ocki), Sunday, 14 February 2010 21:18 (sixteen years ago)

most definitely. V-Day counterprogramming (people literally have their hearts cut out!).

― Freddy 'The Wonder Chicken' (Gukbe), Sunday, 14 February 2010 21:19 (sixteen years ago)

so why is it COUNTER programming then

― snoocki (s1ocki), Sunday, 14 February 2010 21:19 (sixteen years ago)

lollllll @ passion of the christ being a 2 hour chase sequence

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 14 February 2010 21:22 (sixteen years ago)

I do think it's funny how so many of Mel Gibson's flicks feature him as the (literally) tortured protagonist and then, when he gets a little too old to play the role, he moves behind the camera and hires proxy tortured protagonists. Sort of like Woody Allen and his own alter-ego leads.

Anyway, as a Mayan "First Blood" this wasn't bad.

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 14 February 2010 21:35 (sixteen years ago)

a thousand times yes, sam

― caek, Sunday, 14 February 2010 21:39 (sixteen years ago)

uel

― caek, Sunday, 14 February 2010 21:41 (sixteen years ago)

lol

and so i will.

was thinking of starting a bullshit free rolling 'should i watch this film y or n' thread but then realised that no ilx film thread would ever be bullshit free.

― 80085 (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 14 February 2010 21:43 (sixteen years ago)

wait so this movie is actually just peen joeks?

― 80085 (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 14 February 2010 22:22 (sixteen years ago)

that sets the tone. think of the opening as an amouz bouche.

― Freddy 'The Wonder Chicken' (Gukbe), Sunday, 14 February 2010 22:29 (sixteen years ago)

on iplayer for the next week, uk people!

― caek, Monday, 15 February 2010 09:44 (sixteen years ago)

watched it last night, pretty great IMO, if gory. Mel Gibson is obv. a weird guy, but this kind of suited the batshit craziness of this. I'm sure this has been said upthread already, but it reminded me of Aguirre quite a lot.

― Neil S, Monday, 15 February 2010 10:47 (sixteen years ago)

they are both movies set in the jungle, yes

― da Wesley CRUSHER (latebloomer), Monday, 15 February 2010 12:57 (sixteen years ago)

sorry if that came across as snarky. wasn't meant that way.

― da Wesley CRUSHER (latebloomer), Monday, 15 February 2010 13:09 (sixteen years ago)

Similar aesthetics, I thought. Obviously they are stories told from very different perspectives. It's more an atmosphere thing I suppose, and I did also think of Aronofsky's The Fountain too, so it may well be just a matter of them all being set in the jungle!

― Neil S, Monday, 15 February 2010 13:51 (sixteen years ago)

this movie kind of reminds me of "george of the jungle" for some reason - similar vibe i guess?

― amuse-douche (s1ocki), Monday, 15 February 2010 15:03 (sixteen years ago)

Very much reminded me of Avatar.

― No, YOU'RE a disgusting savage (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 15 February 2010 15:05 (sixteen years ago)

was v. surprised about how this turned into a tarzan remake w/ added peen joeks.

― 80085 (a hoy hoy), Monday, 15 February 2010 15:13 (sixteen years ago)

xp George of the Jungle didn't feature conquistadors though did it. Maybe they're in the director's cut?

― Neil S, Monday, 15 February 2010 15:30 (sixteen years ago)

george was a conquistador gone native iirc

― amuse-douche (s1ocki), Monday, 15 February 2010 15:41 (sixteen years ago)

Predator vs. Aguirre

― dyao, Monday, 15 February 2010 15:59 (sixteen years ago)

My money would be on Klaus Kinski.

― Neil S, Monday, 15 February 2010 16:01 (sixteen years ago)

one year passes...

lollllll @ passion of the christ being a 2 hour chase sequence

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, February 14, 2010 4:22 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark

picturing roman soldiers (very slowly) chasing a (very slowly moving) staggering jesus dragging his cross

― dayo, Monday, 23 January 2012 03:19 (fourteen years ago)

In casting, it was important to Mel Gibson that he and Farhad Safinia find actors that matched the archetype each character represented. For instance, Rudy Youngblood struck Gibson as fitting the mythic archetype of a hero. Gibson saw that as necessary to allow people to identify with the film, since the movie's context is unfamiliar to most viewers, being in a foreign language and concerning an indigenous culture in the 16th century.

21st century physiognomy

― dayo, Monday, 23 January 2012 03:22 (fourteen years ago)

seven years pass...

This was really good, cant think of much else like it; Bang Rajan (haven't seen it) from Thailand had a sort of similar look.
Kinda wish it was released this year to see what kind of noise that would have made. I heard Youngblood did all his own stunts!

Yes, the costumes were great.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 6 September 2019 17:40 (six years ago)

Oh yeah, I never came back to this thread to say that I saw this and thought it ruled after pre-hating based on the trailer

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Friday, 6 September 2019 17:45 (six years ago)

I think about the waterfall scene whenever I'm at the urinal and can't immediately pee.

― pplains, Friday, 6 September 2019 18:21 (six years ago)

it's a bit bombastic and heavy handed, but way way better than you could expect a fucking Mel Gibson movie to be.

― calzino, Friday, 6 September 2019 18:25 (six years ago)

Such a batshit piece of filmmaking but it still rules.

― Carly Jae Vespen (Capitaine Jay Vee), Friday, 6 September 2019 18:37 (six years ago)

I only saw it the once but thought it was pretty solid and ambitious and, more than most movies, tbh, memorable.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 6 September 2019 18:37 (six years ago)

Thoughts on representation? I thought of the way some have criticized Jodorowsky, Gilliam, George Miller, Herzog and Todd Browning for ruining a sympathetic portrayal with a sort of freak show gaze.

Two actors won Imagen awards (latino positive representation awards) and the film was nominated.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 6 September 2019 18:38 (six years ago)

Iirc whatever elements of that that exist in this are negated by the very last shot.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 6 September 2019 18:48 (six years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5pBZKj1VnA

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, 6 September 2019 22:46 (six years ago)

Apocalypto rules
I watched it at Catsupppp Dude’s apartment for those into ilx trivia

― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Friday, 6 September 2019 23:23 (six years ago)

omg, 25 minutes of a guy pointing out stuff like a tapir wheezes more than it shrieks.

don't tell me, a solar eclipse didn't really occur the day before conquistadors landed on the shore.

― pplains, Saturday, 7 September 2019 00:12 (six years ago)

Wild how this movie is actually good enough to make people overlook Mel Gibson's involvement

― change display name (Jordan), Saturday, 7 September 2019 00:15 (six years ago)

It’s about time somebody went on YouTube to point out the inaccuracies in movies, guy is a hero

― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Saturday, 7 September 2019 00:16 (six years ago)

everytime this thread gets bumped i misread it as mel brooks

― theRZA the JZA and the NDB (darraghmac), Saturday, 7 September 2019 01:25 (six years ago)

Yeah I wanted to hate this too but I thought it was amazing despite probably being historically inaccurate (if you go to chichen itza they spent a lot of time complaining about this film). I still hate Mel Gibson though.

― akm, Saturday, 7 September 2019 01:41 (six years ago)

It’s about time somebody went on YouTube to point out the inaccuracies in movies, guy is a hero

Seems kind of relevant given "thoughts on representation?" and a film made by a right-wing psycho trying to appear so accurate it's shot in a language most Americans don't know exists?

Do you though, bro, do you.

― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Saturday, 7 September 2019 02:23 (six years ago)

yeah imo the critiques of this adventure movie in that dudes shrill 25min YouTube video are not quite as trenchant as he thinks they are, what can I say

― “Hakuna Matata,” a nihilist philosophy (One Eye Open), Saturday, 7 September 2019 02:44 (six years ago)

if you go to chichen itza they spent a lot of time complaining about this film

― akm, Saturday, September 7, 2019 2:41 AM

To my shame, Scotland fucking loves Braveheart and takes it as fact. Or have we moved on from that?

The History Buffs guy has an annoying ranty "oh my god!" style but I liked and subscribed because I appreciate what he's doing generally.
In the case of Apocalypto, I'm skeptical of how sure he is of the lifestyle, clothes and architecture (couldn't there have been more variety?) and we aren't told for sure that when we see the Spanish arriving is their true first contact.

Then I watched the Braveheart video and I have heard most of the facts in there. Some speculations I didn't see in this video was that William Wallace killed lots of English civilians and might have spoken French a great deal of the time because Scottish nobles were apparently immersed in French culture (but I'm not a historian and my memory might not serve me well).

I like the idea of a more accurate Braveheart remake in which William Wallace (maybe) speaks French most of the time, (maybe) kills innocent civilians and gets a much more brutal death. But there perhaps aren't enough facts to make such a film unless it's a cinema documentary narrated by Ewan McGregor or Limmy.

And... I fear that today, any evils perpetrated by William Wallace would be defended by some of the audience. What if there were films about accurately brutal colonial history and massacre of native americans and it inspired nationalists and helped radicalize ordinary patriotic conservatives because they might feel a need to defend the atrocities?

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 7 September 2019 13:30 (six years ago)

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