Formula 1: Classic Or Dud?

We could always summon Dr C from ILM for a brief sojourn to see if my Dadhood = F1 Fandom theory holds. I suspect it only holds for Dads with Kids old enough to understand and be bored by the thing. No I can't mend your puncture I'm watching the Grand Prix.

The waiting is the hardest part...

It would indeed be a very passive 'old-school dad' thing (slumped on sofa...where's my dinner...go and play I'm watching the 'motor- racing'). But it's surprising how many men seem to fit the male stereotype of being interested in cars per se.

Police: What make of car was it Mr S?
Mark S: It was blue, and kind of roundy at the back like a space-podule.

(Insert action movie sequence where the hero sees his family/partner/love interest about to blown up by evil druglord/terrorist -- he runs towards the scene in the slow motion, screaming in that funkily drawn out way:)

"Nooo-oooo-oooh-ah!"

As you can probably imagine by now, my thoughts on racing of any kind: absolute dud.

The day I realised I had lost the plot was the day I flipped (by mistake) onto BBC, to hear a Top Gear item being wackily introduced by a man copping 'tood at 70s fashions.

On a programme called Top Gear!

I sat next to a man at a dinner party last year who defended Jeremy Clarkson from a class perspective, and then — hearing what I did, whatever that is — assumed I had read AND appreciated Nick Hornby, as he did. This man is abt to marry the sexiest woman I know.

No..Bowling is great. But the ultimate bore is Snooker

See: memory = fucked.

Quite a nice bloke really though. Has always voted Lib Dem from 87 onwards, though voted Tory in 83 fearing that the Soviets would would bomb Britain. And this is my closest experience of F1 fandom. Hmmmmmm ...

Nothing else in any Murdoch paper is as vile as Clarkson's Sunday Times column, incidentally.

x0x0

Can't stand it, myself. Is there a form of car-racing which isn't this tedious? In the way that top-class male grass-court tennis is boring (well, more folks are staying back and rallying than before, so maybe it's recovered from its mid-90s nadir), but women playing on grass is pretty good, and men playing on slow-ish hardcourts is entertaining too. Perhaps speed is the problem? Make 'em all drive Y-reg Austin Allegros around provincial estates (*observing* the speed limits, dammit).

Autumn officially begins on August 11 and I can't wait.

Ergo, dud.

Two Maclarens followed by two Ferraris in qualifying, two Maclarens followed by two Ferraris in the race, WELL DONE MR LEWIS HYPE MACHINE HAMILTON, you have learnt how to DRIVE AROUND A TRACK, but you have not yet learnt to OVERTAKE because your car is TWICE AS GOOD AS THE FERRARIS' whose car is TWICE AS GOOD AGAIN as everyone else's, consequently you end up playing out these pathetic show-pageants in which nobody, no matter how skillful (Mark Webber springs to mind) is physically able to catch you on account of their cars being worse.

And to think some people call this a sport.

It's like a snooker player winning the World Championships because he's the only man allowed to play with a cue rather than an outstretched fist.

LEWIS HAMILTON IS OBVIOUSLY AS GOOD AS SCHUMACHER AND FANGIO AS ONE FUCKING ARTICLE CLAIMED THIS WEEK

rally car racing is a billion times radder

I'm sure it is, but it doesn't get much media attention over here (Burns and McCrae no longer with us for various reasons = the occasional clip on Trans World Sport). What's the name of the competition in which everyone is given the exact same car?

Moto GP/Superbikes are pretty good for a casual watch. Troy Bayliss is something of a hero.

Furthermore, Fangio and to a lesser extent Schumacher raced in conditions where their LIVES WERE ON THE LINE roughly FOUR TO FIVE DAYS A WEEK, now Kubica can wipe out straight into a wall at 180 mph and hobble away smiling. The stakes have been lowered to such a ridiculous extent.

i haven't watched F1 in yonks so Hamilton's stats on their own terms read super impressive. Perhaps he is the Frank Lampard of motor racing.

Louis I'm sorry F1 lacks the fiery deaths you crave!

(I'm not saying that Kubica's crash SHOULD have resulted in a fatality, but I'm contextualising Hamilton's achievement, and stating that by the very nature of increased safety standards, F1 is less hair-raising/exciting than it once was. P.S. For the not-so-faint of heart, search for 'Rudi Van Vuuren crash Price' on Youtube. Then don't thank me. Literally the worst thing I have ever seen.)

I've always wanted to re-see that clip of Jos Verstappen's Benetton going up in flames for just a few seconds during a refuelling spill.

rally car racing isn't popular here, either, which is actually sort of baffling. out here in the greater western states you'd think ppl would go apeshit for high-speed shenanigans on twisty backroads in the mountains and stuff. that's what a lot of these dudes do for fun on the weekend anyway (plus beers and shooting)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhEjCrfBwbM

URRRRRGH

How can this sport be justified in an age where everyone is supposed to be looking at their carbon footprints and what not? This is not a rhetorical question, I wonder if there's any discussion of this kind of thing in racing circles.

It's a car, there's no "footprint", you idiot.

carbon buttocks print perhaps

Louis I am belming at you, you clueless spaz.

PRAY EXPLAIN, SIRE

How can this sport be justified in an age where everyone is supposed to be looking at their carbon footprints and what not? This is not a rhetorical question, I wonder if there's any discussion of this kind of thing in racing circles.

-- Ned Trifle II, Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:50 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

this is a legit question, i think, but i think it's a bit of a strawman for ppl that are predisposed to not like auto racing anyway. race fuel (I THINK) burns more cleanly than regular fuel in that it's more efficient, and more of it goes to firing pistons and less comes out the back. but even if it's dirtier than the average vehicle, it seems like the sport's carbon footprint taken all together (including emissions from jets flying teams all over the place) is relatively small compared to, say, the total annual output of an average middle american city. so yeah, it's a bit of an irresponsible use of resources, but not so irresponsible as millions of people using their car when bikes/buses/trains/feets are available, you know? so sharpening yr fangs for autoracing is just going to alienate loads of the population that you want on your side, esp since they'll see a criticism of F1/NASCAR carbon footprint as a thinly veiled attack on middle-brow sportsfan values or something. environmental issues really are everyone's problem, which is why it doesn't bother me TOO much when wingers go after Gore for owning a huge-ass house and flying around all the time.

to clarify: i don't agree with them when they say global warming is a lefty conspiracy to take away our freedoms, but if ribbing Gore for being a little hypocritical means that its OK for right-wing types to take environmentalism seriously, then i'm all for it. i mean, environmentalism is a deeply and fundamentally conservative thing as it is; i'm baffled by why it doesn't attract more fundies/wingers/etc than it does.

I don't have a problem with the carbon emissions of F1. I have a problem with its status as a 'competitive sport'.

well it IS competitive

Louis you know how you hate it when people diss cricket as boring and pointless? All you need to do is transfer said feelings to motor racing.

YES BUT I GIVE REASON, DO YOU GIVE REASON ALSO?

plus, the fact that I know who Mark Webber is seems to indicate that (as is true) i have actually held an interest in F1, watched many races, and come to the conclusion that it is at present as boring and uncompetitive as it has ever been. the hamilton hype isn't helping.

good teams have always dominated; one of the most enthralling seasons was that mclaren shootout between prost and senna in '88, they were MILES ahead of anyone else but the racing was still good.

the problem with F1 at the moment is that, due to the 'dirty air' that each car kicks up making it impossible to follow someone closely and set them up for a pass, the racing tends to be dull dull dull.

Well, my point aside, it remains true that Alonso did close up very close behind Hamilton yesterday, but was unable to pass him, possibly for the reasons you state.

*close up very close = clumsy, repl. with 'close up very imminently'

F1 is kind of like (American pro) boxing. The history is great, and every time I see a classic race on ESPN Classics or Speed, it's highly entertaining... but today for the most part it's unwatchable. There's just not much drama - maybe better now than in the past (ie Schumacher 42 years in a row) but I can't rekindle much interest.

At least IRL here in the states has some overtaking and action, even if it's on oval tracks.

they don't make 'em like this no more

out here in the greater western states you'd think ppl would go apeshit for high-speed shenanigans on twisty backroads in the mountains and stuff. that's what a lot of these dudes do for fun on the weekend anyway (plus beers and shooting)

I see a future in this, make it like a biathlon. Run 50 laps, pound six Natty Lights, kill a deer, do another 50 laps.

river wolf: Rallying is yet another reason you need to go to the UP.

I see a future in this, make it like a biathlon. Run 50 laps, pound six Natty Lights, kill a deer, do another 50 laps WITH THE DEER ON THE HOOD

^^^ fixed.

i would enter this competition in a heartbeat. someone get me manalishi on the phone.

i think they had rallies in NH, too, but it was more orienteering than it was mcrae style shredding.

also: plz search rally clips on HI DERE WHAT IS AWESOME thread

<i>F1 is kind of like (American pro) boxing. The history is great, and every time I see a classic race on ESPN Classics or Speed, it's highly entertaining... but today for the most part it's unwatchable. There's just not much drama - maybe better now than in the past (ie Schumacher 42 years in a row) but I can't rekindle much interest.</i>

The Canadian GP was great. Better than any NASCAR or IRL race in recent memory, if for no other reason than the suspense wasn't manufactured with debris cautions.

BTW, on the previous note about the Kubica accident: The safety is greatly improved, but hardly perfect. If he took off another 6 inches, you'd have multiple fatalities as he'd fly into track marshalls or traffic going in the opposite direction. Safety makes it so that cars can drive faster and that drivers can theoretically take more risks, and by taking more risks, you increase the possibility of mistakes. There is no such thing as a *safe* race car taking off at 150 mph into catch fencing, especially with an open cockpit. Racing is better without having 2 drivers die every year in the World Championship, or having 2 die every year at the top levels of NASCAR from basal skull fractures.

<i>At least IRL here in the states has some overtaking and action, even if it's on oval tracks.</i>

Its also horrifically dangerous to not only the racers but the spectators, and the IRL has made it an issue to push drivers who have no place whatsoever into vehicles travelling 220 mph. One of these days someone like Marty Roth or Milka Duno, neither of whom belong in a race car, will touch wheels with someone, and either they or the competitor will end up in the grandstands. Everyone in the IRL's management probably feels lucky that when Paul Dana offed himself last year, he did it on the inside of the Homestead backstretch, where there were no stands in case he went over the fence. He would have too if he were pointed at it.

Two Maclarens followed by two Ferraris in qualifying, two Maclarens followed by two Ferraris in the race, WELL DONE MR LEWIS HYPE MACHINE HAMILTON, you have learnt how to DRIVE AROUND A TRACK, but you have not yet learnt to OVERTAKE because your car is TWICE AS GOOD AS THE FERRARIS' whose car is TWICE AS GOOD AGAIN as everyone else's, consequently you end up playing out these pathetic show-pageants in which nobody, no matter how skillful (Mark Webber springs to mind) is physically able to catch you on account of their cars being worse.

And to think some people call this a sport.

One more thing I want to state: The F1 season this year has been signifcantly more competitive than either the IRL, OWRS, or NASCAR's season. This in spite of all three series running common templates for chassis and everyone having the exact same engine in the IRL and OWRS. In fact, of the 6 "Car of Tommorrow" races run by NASCAR (where everyone has the same exact car), 5 of them were won by the same team. Spec racing sucks. Flat out. Always has, always will.

I bet there's more overtaking, though!

I bet there's more overtaking, though!

There's lots of overtaking in NASCAR's restrictor plate races. Its also closer to tag team wrestling or demolition derby than actual racing and horrifically dangerous to the competitors, all of whom hate it. Its not like F1 has this glorious history of having 50 lead changes a race either. Senna's greatest drive was one where he lapped the field. Jackie Stewart and Graham Hill used to win by minutes, not seconds. I could care less about seeing cars pass each other if its under ridiculous conditions (plate racing, IRL using giant rear wings to bunch their drivers).

I just can't get F1 at all. Put it together, you've got a sport where money brutally talks (best money=best cars=best rides=winners), you need to be a pretty rich kid to get in in general, it's run by a bunch of cunts, it's got a horrific tax-exile monaco set lifestyle attached to it, it fetishises cars going very fast, which aside from its own carbon footprint, is part of the valorisation of the automobile which isn't particularly helpful to our current planetary issues. And David Coulthard has a unfeasibly square jaw.

Coulthard's jaw is the best thing about F1, he's racing's Judge Dredd.

lol

I've noticed a huge increase in the number of people talking about F1 in recent weeks, probably because a Brit is winning races.

The "it's all a procession there's no overtaking" argument has been around for decades but you know it's getting bad when the current world champion is stating that the race was over after the first corner.

I like it when it rains and it's all about late breaking rather than speed, you get much more in the way of actual racing.

Part of the thrill of formula one is the fact you know you're at the pinnacle of the sport, where the speed, driver talent and technical excellence all combine to give you THE definitive test of driving ability. Just as you might admire Geoff Boycott for completing a 8-hour 34 not out against the West Indies, you can appreciate a slower car successfully keeping a faster car behind it for 30 laps.

Although moments of genius and excitement don't happen all that often, that's easily comparable to an amazing double play or home run in baseball, or sinking a 70-yard chip in golf, or whatever. Bear in mind in a game of football you get a goal on average once every 30 minutes - hardly breathless climax after climax.

When things DO happen in formula one, they can be just as skilful, exciting, unpredictable as any other sport - except in table tennis or gymnastics you're not travelling at 150mph. It's funny that this topic has come up after two of the most exciting races I can remember - Indianapolis is one of the best circuits for overtaking (perhaps Alonso didn't get past Hamilton because of a brilliant display of defensive driving), and Montreal was full of incident, drama, and Takuma Sato taking Alonso for position.

On top of that, with the retirement of Schumacher and the advancement of Massa and Hamilton, we have four drivers fighting genuinely for the championship. It may be that McLaren pull away as the season progresses, but up to now it's been really close and exciting. There's every chance too that Raikkonen and Alonso will get their act together, making it even tighter, and Kubica and Heidfeld are also capable of getting right up there.

There's a lot to dislike about the world of motor racing, but the sport is in rude and exciting health after a period of relative moribundity. I think enjoying cars going round in a circle is a bit of a marmite thing, but even a hata like you, LJ, should be able to appreciate the amazing things the sport still throws up.

LEWIS HAMILTON IS ONLY THE GREATEST DRIVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD ((C) ITV)

Something I wrote about F1 a few years back on FT. I think the points still hold.

Hrrm. I don't think F1 is in better health overall this year - except in Britain because there is a BRITISH DRIVER WHO WINS RACES. Of course the sport hasn't been that popular in Britain in the past few years (lol jenson button and david coulthard lol). Anyway, Silverstone will be quite maaaad and/or annoying. More of the latter really.

F1 is supposed to be going "green" in 2012 but I'll believe it when I see it, what with Ferrari testing and using wind tunnels 24/7. IMHO, a return to the 80s is in order with smaller turbo engines, a ban on refuelling with fuel tank limits. Thus, cars are designed to use as little fuel as possible which might just flow onto road cars.

I couldn't give a monkey's about British drivers - FELIPE MASSA FOR THE WIN

Is Hamilton being idealistically positioned as the "Tiger Woods of F1", or am I just being a big racist?

Yeah, pretty much.

Someone should mention that Formula One were still holding Championship Grand Prix in South Africa right up to *1984*, btw.

Motor racing needs more women drivers.

YOU CAN'T HAVE AN A-Z IN THE F1 CAR

oh snap

Oh, the stokes were poo last nite btw, the moldy peaches, on the other hand, are more than likely the future of all modern music!!
-- carsmilesteve, Wednesday, 13 June 2001 01:00 (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

can someone PLEASE tell me what i was thinking? innocent days, there...

watching the grand prix yesterday whilst listening to the shimura curves was pretty good :)

HOWEVER steve ryder is a TOSSER, come back rosenthal!!! he actually said "grand prixs" the other week, tosser.

I just can't get F1 at all. Put it together, you've got a sport where money brutally talks (best money=best cars=best rides=winners), you need to be a pretty rich kid to get in in general, it's run by a bunch of cunts, it's got a horrific tax-exile monaco set lifestyle attached to it, it fetishises cars going very fast, which aside from its own carbon footprint, is part of the valorisation of the automobile which isn't particularly helpful to our current planetary issues. And David Coulthard has a unfeasibly square jaw.

All sports are about money. That's why the premiership is usually in the hands of one of the same 4 teams every year. The Yankees and Red Sox dominate the headlines in baseball because they spend more than everyone else. The best teams in every form of motorsports ever are the ones that spend the most money. The only time it becomes less of an issue and more of a management issue is when you draw a line in with a salary cap, but that's not possible in a sport where teams are doing everything covertly in terms of preparation. You rarely end up with great drivers in bad cars unless they screw up repeatedly (like Juan Pablo Montoya, for instance). Part of the fun of F1 over that of the IRL and NASCAR is seeing cars racing into the top 8 that probably shouldn't be there. Takuma Sato passing Alonso for 6th was more exciting than anything that happened at the Daytona 500 or Indy 500 this year.

Is Hamilton being idealistically positioned as the "Tiger Woods of F1", or am I just being a big racist?

I dunno. Hamilton is actually really really really good, its not just hype on behalf of the media in the UK. No one is gonna know for sure until next year when they finally get rid of traction control with the uniform computer chipsets. That's gonna be legitimately exciting.

Motor racing needs more women drivers.

Danica Patrick is actually racing really well in IRL, though that's basically a crappy minor league for open wheel right now. She's been improving all the time. Same with Katherine Legge in OWRS, who really needs to get the fuck out of there and into a F2 ride.

It should be noted that drag racing has been by far the most integrated form of motorsports for decades, yet stupidly has never promoted this fact. They've had world champions at the highest levels who were women (Shirley Muldowney), black (JR Todd), and hispanic (Cruz Pedregon). Muldowney won her first NHRA Top Fuel title of three in 1977 against argurably one of the best and most innovative fields ever assembled in that sport.

No one is gonna know for sure until next year when they finally get rid of traction control with the uniform computer chipsets. That's gonna be legitimately exciting.

What, like the last time they got rid of traction control?

What, like the last time they got rid of traction control?

It'll force people to actually drive again and make it much tougher to exit corners. Undoubtedly the best cars and best drivers will still lead, but any removal of driver aids should be looked at as a good thing, not a negative (especially when they start sliding through the turns). Besides, I think we all agree that the most fun F1 has right now is when they have to run in the wet. Take away a key driving aid from that and it could even the field more.

I'm not a hata by definition! I follow the sport! It's just that I've finally come to the conclusion that with Schumacher retired, things won't really change. There'll always be top dog, and top dog will always prevail.

I agree about Steve Ryder btw, his presenting of ITV's football WC coverage was as cringeworthy as such things ever get.

In fact, of the 6 "Car of Tommorrow" races run by NASCAR (where everyone has the same exact car), 5 of them were won by the same team.

uh, and 4 of those 5 races were won by the best lifetime driver currently competing or last year's defending champion, one or both of whom have been in the top 5 in 7 of the 9 non-CoT races since Daytona, 4 of which were won by someone on their team.

uh, and 4 of those 5 races were won by the best lifetime driver currently competing or last year's defending champion, one or both of whom have been in the top 5 in 7 of the 9 non-CoT races since Daytona, 4 of which were won by someone on their team.

This is all true. Gordon and Johnson have been dominant and Hendrick has been by far the class of the field. The sad part is that their dominant performances could be all for naught at the end of the year with that damned extended Chase format. But hey, this is NASCAR, where winning too much has always been an issue and making sure old guys with no remaining discernable talent can get in while young drivers needing the experience are kept out has been the modus operandi since a 200 year old Richard Petty couldn't qualify in anymore.

how european of us

The only sports where the cream doesn't rise are the ones which artificially impose limitations like salary caps, drafts and handicaps. Which isn't a bad thing but this "the best people usually win" complaint is like batshit - of course they do! They're the best!

Auto racing has always been about how good your car is and how good your mechanics are, at least as much as it is about driving skill, so I don't really understand those complaints. It's like saying jockeys don't get a fair shake because their horses are all different!

srsly

Well, hasn't this just been the most boring season in F1 history. Talk about living up to my expectations. No controversy, no competition, and Lewis faded out towards the end just like we knew he would.

...

Hey...I got the Mark Webber bit right! Another podium finish denied by rotten, rotten luck! When will the man get a break....

(this is kinda an apology to Mark C btw)

http://www.frosina.org/uploads/images/HELMLICH.gif

Tennessee Williams died at the age of 71 after he choked on a pill-bottle cap in his room at the Hotel Elysee in New York.

This is very exciting!

http://www.motionpro.com/images/groups/208.jpg

Best F1 Championship ever, right?

LOL. I hate Raikonnen but Hamilton has really turned me off this season with his noobishness/arrogance as well as how overhyped he's been (not entirely his fault obv). But Ferrari win, so that's all that matters.

Also, fuck Ron Dennis. I might go call him out on the cockfarmer thread.

TIFOSI4LIFE

lol the uk got pwn3d

Lewis faded out towards the end just like we knew he would
Lewis faded out towards the end just like we knew he would
Lewis faded out towards the end just like we knew he would
Lewis faded out towards the end just like we knew he would
Lewis faded out towards the end just like we knew he would
Lewis faded out towards the end just like we knew he would
Lewis faded out towards the end just like we knew he would
Lewis faded out towards the end just like we knew he would
Lewis faded out towards the end just like we knew he would

note to self: use sarcasm more judiciously in future.

English sport RIP, heaven needed repeated disappointment.

Given that these things tend to happen for me in weekends, then

-Charlton losing to Wolves
-Worcestershire signing basket-case Simon Jones
-England losing the RWC final

will be followed by a Hamilton cock-up tomorrow.

Just sayin'.

-- Just got offed, Saturday, 20 October 2007 21:03 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

JAMES MCFADDEN FOR SPOTY (if Scotland beat Italy)

Given that these things tend to happen for me in weekends, then

-Charlton losing to Wolves
-Worcestershire signing basket-case Simon Jones
-England losing the RWC final

will be followed by a Hamilton cock-up tomorrow.

Just sayin'.

-- Just got offed, Saturday, 20 October 2007 21:03 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

-- Just got offed, Sunday, 21 October 2007 17:43 (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

my love-letter will also fail to accrue a positive response. it's inevitable. :(

Woah Louis are you going to keep self-referencing? Give it a break fella.

(btw are you Loo-ee or Loo-wiss?)

I have to say I think Hamilton has bottler written all over him.

-- Noodle Vague, Saturday, 20 October 2007 21:06 (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

http://www.koransky.com/Trip/History/NorthernMidwest/LeinenkugelsBottlingPlant.jpg

New career for LH

Can we find any mp3s of bullish UK sports journalists last weekend explaining how within the week we would qualify for Euro 2008, win the Rugby World Cup and have a Formula 1 champion?

Also: predict the lol indie soundtrack to the montage of people not quite winning stuff played during SPotY.

The worse England does at sport, the less this nation has to hear "Chelsea Dagger", is my theory.

Enterprising BBC sound-person might yet come up with a chopped & screwed version.

what happened?

ahh Kimi Raikkonen sensationally grabbed Formula One world title glory as a disastrous start and a malfunctioning McLaren denied Lewis Hamilton a place in the history books.

'tis Loo-EE! :D

Should the last and most important aspect of this weekend also go tits-up, I will have some serious despair to evince. That said, this race, up until the last 10 laps when the result became apparent, was an absolute thriller. Trust ITV to have an ad break just as Hamilton stalled...

So what am I hearing about BMW being disqualified for illegal fuel...?

4th, 5th and 6th place cars are being examined

Would destroy formula 1.

DA DA DAAAAAAAH!!!!

lol

summoned to speak to stewards, stewards unhappy at result of drivers championship, ecclestone backed lewis hamilton to win SPotY at extreme odds six years ago, bmw's discovered to have "crazy jets"

needs money to buy another unfeasibly tall woman

They will bullshit their way out of this somehow. This season's already been a near-joke in terms of adjudication.

Bernie Ecclestone should be cockpunched

And by "cockpunched" I mean "shot in the skull"

holy mother of god, this is beyond ridiculous

But if the cars are found to have run fuel below the legal temperature, the stewards might feel obliged to disqualify them, even though the advantage conferred would almost certainly have had no bearing on the title race.

However, there is a precedent that could be used by race stewards not to exclude them.

In 1995, the Benetton-Renault of Michael Schumacher and the Williams-Renault of David Coulthard were initially disqualified from first and second places in the Brazilian Grand Prix because their fuel did not conform to samples approved by the FIA.

But a week later the FIA reinstated the drivers' points but docked the teams their constructors' points.

But they had their drivers points reinstated later on and just the constructors points deducted.

Now if only there was some precedent this season of punishing the constructors but living the drivers' points intact...

xp

please, FIAA, do not deduct the drivers' points, for the good of everyone's sanity.

They wont. Can you imagine a decision like that going against Ferrari?

lololol

it would be massively entertaining, though

xpost, quite

maybe they just forgot ambient temperature in brazil is warmer than uk

I dont see anything changing in the drivers championship somehow.

Let's hope not. Hamilton needed this hubris - imagine what an arse he'll become if he does get made champ despite his masterclass in bottling.

Kimi Raikkonen has been confirmed as world champion following an inquiry into the cars of BMW Sauber and Williams at the Brazilian Grand Prix.

Race stewards investigated alleged irregularites with the cars' fuel, but decided to impose no penalty.

phew. thank heavens they killed it quickly.

Great season, the first time I've ever really been able to follow it properly with Tivo.

McClaren appealing, the cockmasters. They really seem to've made a mess of things this season--spying scandal, failing to stop their drivers feuding (which is ultimately what cost them, I feel), Hamilton's tyres in China, Hamilton's tyre cock-up in practice, three stop strategy (what was that all about). Just let it go, you nitwits.

which is ultimately what cost them, I feel

How do you mean?

Both drivers seemed to lose their cool on the track once the feud broke out.

Mclaren's biggest problem is Mercedes and vice versa -- the management styles don't fit together at all, and Mercedes is annoyed that they keep delivering brilliant engines and have gotten, until this past season, cars with serious reliability problems -- that's especially bitter given that Mercedes is already struggling to fix its damaged image in the world of passenger cars.

Alex Wurz did the commentary for Austrian tv yesterday, joining the blind and senile Heinz Prüller in the booth and correcting him constantly -- Wurz said all the drivers hate Hamilton for taking out Webber and Vettel in Japan without being punished, barely contained his rage when Nakajima took out two of his mechanics, and answered Prüller's question "wouldn't you rather be racing today" with "Why? It's air-conditioned here, and we're having such a nice chat!"

Ron Dennis is such a cockfarmer.

haha!

it all reminds me of '86 with piquet and mansell too busy battling each other and both eventually getting scooped by prost in the last race. you can only get away with feuding like that if your car is "lap the rest of the field" superior, like the mclarens in '88-89.

Hamilton and Henman share a number of letters in their names. Just sayin'

^^^searing

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7055644.stm

YAY THIS IS A GOOD IDEA

Ron Dennis morelike Ruin (an entire fucking sport) Dennis, amirite?

"The FIA yesterday announced a total freeze on engine development for 10 years, starting from next season. The freeze may be reconsidered after five years and called off, after a further two-year notice period, if all stakeholders agree."

Does anyone know anything about this? Can they explain, it sounds very anti-intuitive and I'm not sure how F1 can remain at the pinnacle of its sport if it doesn't further the technology involved?

Eh? Where's that from? How would they enforce that? Make people use the same engine design ad-infinitum?

The answer to the initial thread question is 'dud', by the way.

Shockingly boring.

^ban

The quote was from a Guardian article (the rest of the article was Ferrari laying into anyone and everyone about the farce of a season). But yeah, it sounds very weird. If someone realises, say, that a different piston angle improves performance, are they not allowed to implement it? Do they all have to lay off all their R&D people? What happens when this freeze expires? I'll look forward to hearing more.

the commentators tried really hard to make the last race sound exciting, when it was all pretty much done after the suspension thing.

NO RLY, THERE IS STILL A SLIGHT CHANCE RIGHT COS LIKE ERRR.. THOSE CARDS THERE YEAH, 4TH AND 5TH, HEY THEY MIGHT CRASH AND THEN WE WILL HAVE LOUIS AS THE CHAMPION!

OKAY THERE ARE 5 LAPS LEFT, ERR, THEY HAVEN'T CRASHED YET BUT THEY MIGHT STILL CRASH!

OKAY NOW THEY CROSSED THE FINISHING LINE, THEY MIGHT STILL CRASH, WAIT OH WAIT WHAT OH actually it doesn't matter now even if they crash.

suspension? gears i think it was

cards? cars i think they were

James Allan is the worst, the man obviously thinks that the nation's most beloved sporting pundit is Ian Wright and so we need Wright-esque opinions from him at all junctures.

the word 'scythed' alone made about 7 appearances in the opening 20 minutes of the race

So, Lewis has decided to emmigrate to Switzerland to avoid excessive media attention tax.

why is Max Mosley continually hating on McLaren?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7070564.stm

Just one example of many snide comments he's made in recent months.

Uh cos they got caught cheating? Or do you mean the Hamilton stuff? I dunno - Mosley is a creepy old lunatic - perhaps he and that awful man Ron Dennis have some deep seated loathing. Either way, he's a nobber and is damaging the sport.

Mosley is a miserable, spiteful old crank. Surely his job involves promoting the sport and encouraging interest in it? he's just taking the piss out of it. Clearly it's not business, just personal b/w him and Ron.

Maybe it's because Lewis isn't Aryan that he be hatin'?

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/LewisHamilton_800x527.jpg

Possibly.

Who would have thought it from Spanish sports fans?

My goodness! Their complexions (under the masks) are only a little lighter than Mr Hamilton's. What infantile cheek! - Wombat, UK

Rude: Spanish spectator swears at Lewis Hamilton

How come the Mail is allowed to print a picture of someone giving the finger, but not print swear words? Shouldn't they pixellate it out?

they also didn't pixelate the blackened faces in this picture
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/LewisHamilton_468x308.jpg

with the spelling mistake it's almost like a parody photo.

wow this is something else

we know they're stupid but what's the actual thinking behind the wigs?

"LOLZ HAMILTON HE'S BLACK NOT LIKE OUR FERNANDO"?

Oh, the wigs. Yes, they are odd.

I expect there had been a run on afro wigs so they made do.

I never noticed this and bumped the old Spanish racist football fans thread instead.

The woman who took the picture has just been on Radio 4. Quite interesting/depressing. I was willing to put it down to the usual carnival hi-jinks, but apparently there is more to it than that, ie people threatening to boycott Vodafone.

Sports Minister Gerry Sutcliffe has already questioned whether the country should be allowed to host another Grand Prix after the incident, which saw fans dress up in wigs with blacked-up faces and chanting racist slogans.

And now Damon Hill, 1996 F1 champion, has joined the condemnation and urged the FIA, the sport's governing body, to take a hardline and consider cancelling Spanish legs on the racing circuit.

I agree that cancelling the Spanish Grand Prix would be an appropriate punishment. What did the woman say on Radio 4, Peter?

I knew THIS was going to happen one day:

F1 boss Max Mosley has sick Nazi orgy with 5 hookers

I don't really want to read that but I will admit to being vaguely curious as to how one has a "Nazi orgy".

Is this country really that fucking badly educated now that we have to explain who Oswald cunting Mosely was?

Not to me but to 'this country'...Probably.

Where would you be taught about Oswald Mosley? Also, a lot of people don't even know who our current Prime Minister is, or what party he represents, or what day of the week it is. Makes yer prahhhhhhhhhhhhhd to be Bwitish.

Now THAT is how you do an exposé. Ignominy heaped upon ignominy - finishing off with a biography of Oswald Mosley is absolutely the right, em, climax to the story. The posho Nazi shooting herself and dying several years later is the juicy cherry on top. Magnificent work, the tabloid press.

Oswald Mosley

Never heard of him lol

Last month the urbane president of the FIA—Formula One's governing body—hit the headlines when he announced a crackdown on racism in the sport after McLaren ace Lewis Hamilton was abused by Spanish spectators.

But on Friday the only ‘crackdowns' married Mosley was interested in were on bare buttocks...including his own.

BMW and Mercedes are a bit upset about all this. I can't see why.

God, this story is amazing.

Oxford-educated Mosley has refused to condemn his father who was considered so dangerous he was interned during the war. He once said in an interview: "He was wonderful as a person. But I don't think my father would have made a good dictator. He talked tough but, fundamentally, he was too soft."

Whereas his son is a hard man—especially when it comes to beating girls' naked bottoms.

Isn't it just. NOTW seem to have pulled the video though.

It's a career-defining story for the reporter. You get that video, you're set for at least a decade.

James Allen, commentating yesterday: "It can't be easy being the girlfriend of a formula 1 racing driver."

Umm.....

"Had I wanted a Nazi scene, I would have said I wanted one and A would have got some of the inexpensive Nazi stuff from the joke shop that provides uniforms and would not have gone to Marks and Spencer and got quite expensive jackets."

This fucking guy.

I liked this bit:
"Mark Warby, QC, produced an audio disc of a recording made by Mr Mosley of another orgy a few weeks before the one featured in the article"

http://www.psychicfriends.net/blog/archives/realhmv.jpg

Seriously, though, what kind of pervert makes an audio recording of an orgy?

Oh, he went to M&S like Bryan Ferry?

That's a BULLET PROOF DEFENSE!

The hitherto unexplored dentist vs. corporal punishment debate.

:(

I liked this racing-themed line from the original story:

After the sex marathon, Mosley dressed again and had a quick pit-stop, turning down wine in favour of a cup of tea.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02iIdLE4sw6f5/340x.jpg

Future of the sport imo

Dud since May 1st 1994.

cmon now no drama

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

omg

Ferrari crew celebrating only to look up and realise HAM was 5th pretty funny

timo glock with nearly one of the great spanner-in-the-works non-tire-changes there

as i'm in Berlin i will give ze Germans the benefit of the doubt there: they were just making things interesting

amazing

the crowd hate hamilton so no better way of a big fuck you

Don't think there could ever be a closer championship, won at the last corner.

lol podium

has anyone on a 1st place podium ever looked as gutted as Massa?

well you cant blame him

Hmm. Glock out of nowhere loses 18 seconds on the last lap, despite the rain not getting worse.

I'm just waiting on ferrari getting the points reversed. After what we've seen this season.

i fuck w/this

my gf gives me shit for narcissism of small diffs cause i loathe nascar but yall know the deal

lewis hamilton is buff as!!

i only know who he is b/c of nicole scherzinger obv, but well done him.

luckiest guy ever

Hmm. Glock out of nowhere loses 18 seconds on the last lap, despite the rain not getting worse.

The rain was getting worse. Also it wasn't out of nowhere, he lost 7 or 8 seconds on the previous lap and was struggling to stay on the track.

Thrilling but very suspicious ending to say the very least. I mean, Timo Glock, cmon, the world is watching you. The fact is that the whole F1 establishment seemed to be more interested in a Hamilton championship. He didn't deserve it, Massa was better than him throughout the season but had the Ferrari's stupid, amateurish mistakes in his way.

wd this be the f1 establishment who can't stand maclaren or hamilton

nice try, 4/10

The fact is that the whole F1 establishment seemed to be more interested in a Hamilton championship.

that will explain the dodgy decisions that docked hamilton points but not massa for similar things then..

Where did that information come from Onimo? Not what was said on the telly, at least during the race.

restraint, Lewis Hamilton is F1's meal ticket, all the more so with the circuit moving east toward oil money in non-white countries etc. McLaren is, so to speak, a necessary evil, and it had already been punished last year.

all the more so with the circuit moving east toward oil money in non-white countries etc

ban

On telly they said, with two laps to go "Glock has 25 second gap over Hamilton and should be able to tiptoe around" or words to that effect. That means he lost 7 seconds on that lap. The rain was clearly worse on the last lap if you look at the last three corners.

I didn't see anything of Glock until he was passed - there's every chance he went off track or had a slight spin on that lap before Hamilton caught him.

I can't see any reason why Glock would want to gift Hamilton anything.

He didn't deserve it, Massa was better than him throughout the season but had the Ferrari's stupid, amateurish mistakes in his way.
If he hadn't wrongly had points taken off him for passing Raikkonen at Spa he'd have been champion with a race to spare.

restraint, really? If I cared I'd ask you to tell why. Things like Hamilton's marketability and appeal to draw more attention to racing in this new money countries is all but a secret.

Cool Hand, it would be a good idea to consider who had points taken in what circuits, as well as who has suffered more penalties this year. I mean, ok, Hamilton is good etc, but that looks suspiciously like a tainted championship and it will go down in history as such.

(x-posts)

The Spa decision made sense of a sort - he might have let Raikkonen through but he was definitely still in a better position afterwards than before.

Penalising Bourdais a couple of races back was the only really inexplicable judgement of the season, unless anyone can explain that one?

Come on, that was the lucky win to beat all lucky wins (admittedly, a Massa win would've been only marginally less lucky). That unfair Spa myth is total rubbish - like formula one has ever allowed as many free goes at a pass until one sticks

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3366564/Fan-could-pocket-125000-from-Lewis-Hamilton-triumph.html

i only know who he is b/c of nicole scherzinger obv, but well done him.

Hah! They deserve eachother: both at the top of the charts but not deservedly so. :-( I hate'em both.

I feel very bummed that Massa didn't win. Grrr.

Glock was still on dry tyres I think.

Who cares, the asshole won. ;-)

i didn't actually suggest ban you dude, it was a rhetorical objection to what seemed like racial pigeonholing

Yes xp, you can see Glock still sliding all over the place just after Hamilton got past

explains it all then.

He didn't deserve it, Massa was better than him throughout the season

predictable bullshit

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_02/LewisHBig1408_468x709.jpg

^^totes buff

Rule of financial viability of sportsmen:

Charismaless black guy > charismatic white guy > charismaless black guy > charismatic black guy.

But, y'know, well done to Switzerland's finest sportsman.

yeah the one thing that rankles slightly is the whole tax exile libertarian traitor thing

ronny for SPOTY

Oh, I think Lewis has that one sewn up. I'm backing Andy Murray.

Rory Delap

I don't understand why anyone would be a fan of Formula 1, much less any of the drivers. It's a terrible business and they are bad people.

There's very few sports where you can actively support, y'know, Francoists or Apartheid or whatever. Unless you're a Lazio fan, obv.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/w1nt3rmut3/ec18a9e5477ae5462d706bec8fdf10f2.gif

Glock didn't chose not to come in to change his tyres and was losing control in the last lap, which allowed Hamilton through. There is no reason why Hamilton might be more appealing than Massa in China or India (Middle East is no new market).

Its not all that as a sport I agree.

lol @ gif

it's not a great sport but hell the BBC having acquired the rights will ride it for all it's worth now; enough ppl love it to sustain massive interest

Hamilton's wheels not falling off on the grid proves there's no god imo

Would be funny if, after the BBC forsaking all other sport ever to get the F1 rights, Hamilton finished seventh next season.

TS: Mansell's dodgy tyres vs Timo Glock

the BBC's priorities are frankly a fucking joke, yes

surprising amount of trollish "glock threw it" sentiment among seemingly rational commenters

WTF would rational commenters be doing on a F1 thread?

oh wait

I personally thought it was a great result because it's sure to give us a few choice slabs of Ronspeak in the coming week. Stoked for that.

ronny for SPOTY

WTF is ronny? I thought that Chris Hoy had it sewn up until yesterday.

this is a fair point xps to nv

i mean i even prefer rugby to F1 but this has given me some sort of vicarious thrill, even if the dude has forsaken his homeland (like every F1 driver not born in Monaco)

"wtf is ronny", gimme a break

even if the dude has forsaken his homeland

not everyone needs a local shooting club, jagger

Besides, even Mansell moved to the Isle of Man.

No seriously, is ronny Ronaldo? Cuz,unless his birth certificate is wrong he'll never win SPOTY.

Also unless working class peeps start voting for SPOTY.

Ron Dennis surely with an acceptance speech for the ages.

xpost
Oh, you mean Ronnie.

Paying tribute to the outstanding performance and synergy of the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes organisation and its core partners.

gah look i just woke

and for some reason when youtube searching i typed in "ronnie"

I, Ronnie

Still, fair play to Hamilton for being the first gay guy to compete in F1.

Actually, wait, if you date a transvestite does that make you gay?

Jagger?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/04/football_sports_personality0_what_happened_next0/img/7.jpg

HI DERE

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/graham-hill-400x300.jpg

CAN'T FUCK WIT DNA

he hasn't forsaken his homeland he's just choosing not to pay taxes to his homeland's government. since he spends most of the year away from the UK, from his point of view, he's just exercising financial prudence.

not that I agree with him doing it, but I don't think it makes him any less British.

Still, fair play to Hamilton for being the first gay guy to compete in F1.

No, I've been convinced for many years that Coulthard is closeted.

Self-important male model fantasies + parade of temporary girlfriends seemingly there for show + unhealthy bonding with Jacques Villeneuve = well, y'know.

http://www.monacorichlist.com/photos/David%20Coulthard.jpg

Looks straight to me

In the pantheon of Great British Formula One Heroes, Hamilton is way above Damon Hill (F1's answer to Britpop) but will never reach Mansell (moody Brummie with a mustache - come on).

Looks straight to me

There's a really homoerotic black and white picture of Coulthard, Villeneuve and Mika Salo which I fortunately do not have on file.

Actually, wait, if you date a transvestite does that make you gay?

I wonder how Jenson Button feels this morning.

Sluggish, like usual

Worried about unemployment figures, surely.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article6633340.ece

Mr Ecclestone said: “In a lot of ways, terrible to say this I suppose, but apart from the fact that Hitler got taken away and persuaded to do things that I have no idea whether he wanted to do or not, he was in the way that he could command a lot of people, able to get things done.

“In the end he got lost, so he wasn’t a very good dictator because either he had all these things and knew what was going on and insisted, or he just went along with it . . . so either way he wasn’t a dictator.” He also rounded on democracy, claiming that “it hasn’t done a lot of good for many countries — including this one (Britain)”.

Well now I don't know what to think.

^ another drawback of non-totalitarianism

good luck QPR

most dud sport ever. i'll just go outside of my house if i want to see cars circling around.

you live on a roundabout?

Today? Classic!

does anyone who still posts here watch f1? i've kind of gotten hooked thanks to the netflix series.

Kate Wagner of McMansion Hell (and some great cycling journalism too) was sent by Road & Track magazine (and Ineos - she explains) to the United States Grand Prix in Austin. If you know her writing, you could probably guess what happens next.

"Behind F1's Velvet Curtain" is pantheon-level writing. In there with "The Kentucky Derby Is Decadent and Depraved." Check it out...

*rubs hands together*

yay thx Elvis

I never click on this thread but glad I did today - thanks, love me some Kate Wagner