P.G. Wodehouse, c. or d.?

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what kind of person would you have to be to say "d."? damn that shit is funny!

yeah & the TV version of "Jeeves & Wooster" is great too...those 2 guys, what're their names, they're perfect - esp. the guy who plays Bertie - oh man just his facial expressions!

but - am i right about this - you have to be NOT ENGLISH to still find Wodehouse funny? English people seem to find it weird & slightly pathetic that I think that stuff is so funny.

duane, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

my fav. - Psmith, boy i so wish he'd writ more Psmith bks.

, Thursday, 17 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

i guess what i love is how incredibly predictable the stories are - the inexorable comedic tension of knowing exactly what's going to happen...intense! that's still going to seem funny when all kinds of "modern" comedy is just a bunch of quaint odditties (my prediction)

, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Duane, you couldn't be more right, he is THE MASTER. I'm not sure about that the tv adaptations, though, and I guess that's why Brits may be slightly ambivalent about him these days: he's become a cornerstone of some Upstairs/Downstairs Eccentric Heritage Industry. And yes, the Psmith books are matchless.

Edna Welthorpe, Mrs, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Are we ambilvalent about Wodehouse? I don't think so, perhaps it has just been taken as read for so long that he was the funniest author of the 20th Century that people don't really discuss him. There is also that WWII stuff which may taint older cultural comentators. The true beauty is I have read about fifty and I know there are another forty or so knocking about.

Hugh Laurie was a perfect Bertie Wooster - but Stephen Fry was much too young for Jeeves.

Pete, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Pete: I guess I was slightly ambivalent before I read the books, having only seen the tv, because it all seemed a bit cosy. Clueless toffs and wry butlers - I couldn't see the appeal. But my mind was changed when I read the books because they are just so sharply written: sentence for sentence, Wodehouse is a match for SJ Perelman. Wonderfully scathing, daft, incisive and not infrequently moving. For me the real Damascus moment was reading the Psmith books, which are a lot nastier than J&W, I think. (Has there ever been an adaptation of these?)

Edna Welthorpe, Mrs, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Apparently so!

Edna Welthorpe, Mrs, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Oh, he is brilliant. 'She looked like she had been poured into that dress and forgot to say 'when''. Heh heh heh

Will, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

I've only read one ('The Inimitable Jeeves') but it was absolutely hilarious. Edna, I don't see how you can find Wodehouse funny but not Seinfeld. They are the same!

N., Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

But the one has a veneer of elegance and the other a veneer of annoyance.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Ach, they're not really annoyed. Life's just an amusing game in both.

N., Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Wasn't Wodehouse one of those damn fools in the 30s who evangelised for the Nazis and then spent the rest of their life apologising?

DG, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Jerry = also Nazi. Another parallel.

N., Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Life's just an amusing game in both.

Yes, but I laugh with Wodehouse characters. Seinfeld characters I generally wish to kill.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

You don't count.

N., Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Wodehouse not pro-nazi: living in france when war broke, put under (very mild) house arrest when france overrun; he was a world- famous author, a brit popular in america, and given kid glove treatment; persuaded by some (well-chosen) super-urbane gauleiter that some radio broadcasts might be good for one and all, he delivered half a dozen, entirely empty of political content (or any content to speak of — they were about himself and his "plight", and basically intended as silly-funny). There was no sinister intent, or even self-preservational intent; he seems to have been just INCREDIBLY naive and unwordly abt the likely response in the UK (where he had in fact not lived for years), responding instead to what he considered an unexpected and rather flattering request from a so-called enemy. In sum: he did it because he felt it's what a thoroughly profession writer ought to do when asked, even if the askers were vaguely tiresome cads; it's of a piece with his habit of writing a book a year (for eighty years, or whatever).

The Blackshirts are lampooned in some of the 30s books, as the Blackshorts. PGW clearly considered them merely absurd, rather than threatening or evil. I think he pretty much lived in an England entirely of his own invention, with major world events and actual grown-up politics as extremely distant background noise.

mark s, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Cheers Mark, I was just wondering. Now I know hurrah!

DG, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Incredibly naive and unworldly? He wasn't an idiot. I mean, I get where you're coming from. His life was permeated with his 'innocence' so it's not like he sometimes was naive and sometimes wasn't, and the question of what's real and what's not in terms of personality is almost meaningless but ... he wasn't an idiot. I read Wodehouse too and enjoy it. But that whole 'bumbling Englishman' thing is also an annoying charade. Why was he so desperate to be a detached aristocrat? I guess your books sell better when you don't remind people that they're committing injustices just through their everyday existence. Unconnected but: did you know that Tolstoy had a copy of one of PG Wodehouse's first books by his bed when he died?

Molly Keane is a good writer. I think that's how you spell it.

maryann, Saturday, 19 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

"committing injustices just through their everyday existence"

This is true for 'Seinfeld' but not for Wodehouse, therefore N. is wrong QED.

Edna Welthorpe, Mrs, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

>>> "it has just been taken as read for so long that he was the funniest author of the 20th Century"

Pssshhh. Not round here it ain't.

the pinefox, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

What? I don't understand that thing about Seinfeld. I meant that people in big mansions were committing injustices. Some people say 'he reveals the idiocy of the aristocrats, though.' Do you mean that Seinfeld is committing an artistic injustice?

maryann, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ps - Who is N?

maryann, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

nobody knows, but he has been using nick dastoor's email lately

mark s, Monday, 21 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

The Pinefox in under developed sense of humour shock. (Perhaps it was a provocative statement, but I'm all about them this month).

Okay PF, put forth your challanger and we'll have a ILE boxing match to settle this one.

Pete, Tuesday, 22 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Nneeeoooww.

Gob, there's me bus. Bye now.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 22 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-three years ago)

ten months pass...
Urgent and Key Development

This weekend The Pinefox gave me an excellent early birthday present: Mark Steyn's 'Broadway Babies say goodnight: musicals then and now' which I recommend highly (especially to the Barnet Ape). Among other things, it contains the startling - to me - revelation: "If PG Wodehouse had died in 1918 he would be remembered, not as the creator of Jeeves etc, but as the man who revolutionized the Broadway musical" (I quote from unreliable memory). Quite a claim, but it turns out to be true! With Jerome Kern, in shows such as 'Very good Eddie' and 'Oh, Kay!' Plum apparently staked out a bold new democratic voice on Broadway which paved the way for Porter, the Gershwins, Berlin etc etc. Well, if I liked PGW before, I like him even more now! But does anyone know where I can find the lyrics (or better still - recordings) of these songs?

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 10 December 2002 10:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I have been searching in vain for more info on the PG Wodehouse musicals too. If you note a lot of his earlier books often have English chaps rocking over to New York and getting involved in the theatre scene - but they seem very hard to get hold of these days.

Imagine therefore how doubly insulting Andrew Lloyd Webbers "Jeeves" would have been....

If you find any more, let me know.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 10 December 2002 10:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Funny article, by Steyn, on the Jeeves show

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 10 December 2002 10:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Here is a sample Woodehouse lyric from the musical The Gypsy Moth:

Think how sad a carrot would be if no boiled beef was near
Think how sad an egg would feel if ham should disappear
Think how a sausage's hopes would be dashed if one day it awoke and missed its mash
Or what grief a steak would feel if it found that there wasn't an onion around

(If I Ever Lost you - set to music by Ivor Novelloe!)

Bibliography of Woodehouse musicals here: http://wodehouse.ru/musical.htm (Anything Goes is one of his - makes sense)

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 10 December 2002 10:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha ha - I like this one:

I'm so busy

[Marjorie]
I always said
That the man I would wed
Must be one who would work all the time.
One with ambition,
Who'd make it his mission
To win a position sublime.
One whose chief pleasure would be
Making a fortune for me;
One who would toil all the day
Down in the market and say:

Lizzie, Lizzie,
I'm so busy,
Don't know what to do.
Goodbye dear, I'm off to the street.
Can't stop now,
I'm cornering wheat.
I shall keep on till I'm dizzy,
Till the deal goes through.
Lizzie, I'm so busy,
I'm making a pile for you.

[Donald]
Don't be deceived,
If you've ever believed
That my taste for hard labor is small.
Stifle the lurking
Idea that I'm shirking,
I never stop working at all.
I may have loafed in the past,
But I am busy at last,
I've found employment and I'm
Working away all the time.

Lizzie, Lizzie,
I'm so busy,
Busy loving you.
That's the job that suits me the best,
Though I never get any rest.
I shall keep on till I'm dizzy
But I shan't get through.
Lizzie, I'm so busy,
So won't you get busy too?

[Both]
Mm...

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 10 December 2002 10:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I think he's not just the funniest writer of the 20th Century but also one of the best writers of beautiful prose ever. I can't think of a single British author who I think writes better sentences than Wodehouse. And like Pete, although I've read lots (50 or 60) I know there are still lots to find and read. I can't imagine that anyone else has ever produced so many wonderful books. (Ed McBain/Evan Hunter fans may disagree, and the way Joyce Carol Oates is going, her output will outnumber his if she lives to even an average age.)

As for musicals, I've never seen one of his 'books' available anywhere, nor a soundtrack album. He always described his stories as musical comedies without the music, though. One of my favourite ever lines about writing was from one of his books, where he claims that to change what he writes into serious literature, all you would have to do is take out all the plot and bung in loads of misery.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 10 December 2002 14:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I love that golf story where Cuthbert Banks meets the Russian writer of miserable novels "where nothing much happened until page 300, when the moujik decides to commit suicide."

Sam (chirombo), Tuesday, 10 December 2002 14:58 (twenty-two years ago)

one month passes...
I looked for this thread because I picked up some W&J paperbacks at random (Jeeves in the Morning and Stiff Upper Lip, Jeeves for $1.50 each, hence no real worries as to whether I'm starting in a good chronological spot) and after reading all this I have nothing to add except that that "Won't you get busy too?" reads terrifically from an early 21st-century standpoint.

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 05:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Nabisco, did you happen to find those at that book store on Clark near Grace? I grew up around there and that store supplied me with a steady supply of Wodehouse novels for many years.

Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 06:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i used to read loads of wodehouse when i was about twelve or thirteen,but i haven't read any in ages...
recently though,i've seen him mentioned a fair bit,noticed his books being read again,i must reread them...
(paraphrasing)-"i could see that he was,if not actively disgruntled,certainly far from being gruntled"

robin (robin), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I got them at Myopic, actually -- but those were the only two they had, so perhaps I'll have to stop in at this place you speak of.

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 16:37 (twenty-two years ago)

classiest classic I know

isadora (isadora), Tuesday, 4 February 2003 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

four years pass...

i finally got around to reading "code of the woosters" this weekend and i must say it's kind of shocking to realize everyone's right about wodehouse; he's not just a wry old artifact you might chuckle at on a rainy sunday when browsing the local used bookstore, he was a bonafide fuckin' genius! i mean god knows how else he was able to write nothing but utterly beautiful, utterly hilarious sentences, one after the other.

J.D., Sunday, 7 October 2007 07:55 (seventeen years ago)

I can't believe that Seinfeld comment way above. Ned was not nearly vitriolic enough.

Casuistry, Sunday, 7 October 2007 08:02 (seventeen years ago)

yeah, even if you like seinfeld its attitude toward ppl is clearly the complete opposite of wodehouse - PGW's world is a utopia, seinfeld's is a sort of hell.

J.D., Sunday, 7 October 2007 08:12 (seventeen years ago)

PGW's world is a utopia

Although I love PGW and have been reading him for about 20 years - he's pretty much my default reading material when feeling low - I remember my father ranting about him (or at least Wooster). As far as he was concerned the world portrayed in the books was a real one, albeit exaggerated, which existed up until WW2 and which was wholly repulsive. Stupid toffs living off various their relatives wealth, wealth which had been achieved at the expense of the working classes, doing nothing constructive and wholly self absorbed in their own petty world. He really couldn't see the joke. Pr at least he could, he just didn't think it was funny.

Ned Trifle II, Sunday, 7 October 2007 08:25 (seventeen years ago)

Oh - I just read the thread and that's basically what maryann was saying I think so what she said otm.

Ned Trifle II, Sunday, 7 October 2007 08:28 (seventeen years ago)

Also someone used the name Mrs Edna Welthorpe back then. Excellent.

Ned Trifle II, Sunday, 7 October 2007 08:28 (seventeen years ago)

four years pass...

Joy in the Morning is perfect from end to end.

lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 2 January 2012 22:11 (thirteen years ago)

The newest editions of these keep showing up remaindered in various local bookshops in Aus--$7 each. Which is great, and somehow I've so far managed to avoid buying any I already own (which is harder than you'd think, given the often interchangeable titles and sometimes interchangeable blurbs--'Oh, this is the one where Jeeves gets Bertie out iof a fix!')

And OTM to Alfred's Joy in the Morning comment

Not only dermatologists hate her (James Morrison), Monday, 2 January 2012 23:24 (thirteen years ago)

I bought the 2010 Just Enough Jeeves omnibus for $5 used on Friday.

lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 2 January 2012 23:26 (thirteen years ago)

The newest editions of these keep showing up remaindered in various local bookshops in Aus--$7 each.

I hope this proves true for me!

Θ ̨Θƪ (sic), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 06:40 (thirteen years ago)

This made a great christmas present:

http://www.thebookpeople.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/qs_product_tbp?storeId=10001&catalogId=10051&langId=100&productId=253016&searchTerm=wodehouse

Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 3 January 2012 09:00 (thirteen years ago)

Thread of missing Mrs. Edna Welthorpe

WATERMELON MAYNE aka the seed driver (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 5 January 2012 19:19 (thirteen years ago)

morelike p.u. chodehouse

j/k :)

the 500 gats of bartholomew thuggins (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 5 January 2012 20:22 (thirteen years ago)

Watch it, before you get pelted with a bread roll.

WATERMELON MAYNE aka the seed driver (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 5 January 2012 20:38 (thirteen years ago)

Just to continue the discussion about Wodehouse's musical career (from nine years ago, I know, but never mind). PG of course covers this period (mostly for comic reasons) in his non-fiction books "Bring on the Girls" and "Performing Flea" but the definitive source of information and analysis is a book called "PG Wodehouse - A Literary Biography" by Benny Green. This is the same Benny Green that some UK posters will be familiar with as a general UK jazz-dude, from Radio 2 of yore and more auspiciously, in my opinion, as a member of Lord Rockingham's XI. A good third of the book is specifically about Wodehouse's exploits on Broadway and Tin Pan Alley, collaborating with the Gershwins, Jerome Kern, Irvine Berlin, George Grossmith and most other folks you may have heard of from them days. Lots of extracts from letters, excerpts from songs and so on- demonstrating what an influence musical theatre was on his novels, and what an influence he was on the American musical - being a key part of the bridge between Gilbert and Sullivan and the musical theatre of the 20s and 30s. Some quite amazing stories too, like how he wrote the whole of act two of a show in an afternoon, while working on two other Libretti at the same time. Or the full story of the gestation of the song "Bill" from Showboat, which was written in a couple of minutes but took a couple of decades to be finished and included in that show.

I highly recommend this book as my favourite book about Wodehouse and the best analysis of his work that I've read.

everything, Monday, 16 January 2012 17:42 (thirteen years ago)

five months pass...

Still smiling at Code of the Woosters. Wodehouse has a better impact on my mood than anything. He's like a dose of Jeeves's tissue restorer.

jim, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 15:09 (twelve years ago)

As far as he was concerned the world portrayed in the books was a real one... which existed up until WW2 and which was wholly repulsive. Stupid toffs living off various of their relatives wealth... wholly self absorbed in their own petty world.

Obv, for anyone who actually suffered under the english class system, ruled over by the Bertie Woosters of the world, the joke in PGW may have seemed awfully sour. But what PGW achieves with such a light touch is a rather fierce satire. Money has allowed his characters to develop into charming grotesques, with all the freshness of children and all the thoughtless horror that implies when those traits are transmuted into adult form.

Classic, of course.

Aimless, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 15:42 (twelve years ago)

been enjoying the hell out of this chappie lately. lots of free books to read online if you like reading that way:

http://www.online-literature.com/pg-wodehouse/

scott seward, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 15:47 (twelve years ago)

One of my favourite parts: Wodehouse's hilariously ad hoc device for extending a misunderstanding during an early confrontation:

'You say the proprietor of the shop handed it to you. I put it to you that you snatched it up and were making off with it. And now Mr Spode catches you here, with the thing in your hands. How do you explain that? What's your answer to that? Hey?'

'Why, Daddy!' said Madeline.

I dare say you have been wondering at this pancake's silence during all the cut-and-thrust stuff which had been going on. It is readily explained. What had occurred was that shortly after saying 'Nonsense!' in the earlier portion of the proceedings, she had happened to inhale some form of insect life, and since then had been choking quietly in the background. And as the situation was far too tense for us to pay any attention to choking girls, she had been left to carry on under her own steam while the men threshed out the subject on the agenda paper. She now came forward, her eyes still watering a bit.

jim, Tuesday, 10 July 2012 15:54 (twelve years ago)

Classic. Doesn't really hit his stride until after the copyrights kick in, but Right Ho, Jeeves made it in under the wire:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10554

You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike. (hugo), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 17:59 (twelve years ago)

Ha, have thought that same exact thing.

ratso piazzolla (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 10 July 2012 18:05 (twelve years ago)

But what PGW achieves with such a light touch is a rather fierce satire. Money has allowed his characters to develop into charming grotesques, with all the freshness of children and all the thoughtless horror that implies when those traits are transmuted into adult form.

I've been thinking about this as I read (the Jeeves books)... I'm not sure that I see a significant satirical element. I think he focuses on the world of the rich and idle leisure class because it's artistically useful for creating low-stakes comedic fantasies; the lightness of the books depends on ignoring anything really important. It may be because I'm not English, but I don't feel any of the discomfort in reading these books that I would expect from satire. They're more like consoling fairy tales.

A character like Roderick Spode is certainly satirical, but he tends to stand out.

jim, Friday, 13 July 2012 14:17 (twelve years ago)

"consoling fairy tales" otm - evelyn waugh said something similar: “Mr. Wodehouse's idyllic world can never stale. He will continue to release future generations from captivity that may be more irksome than our own. He has made a world for us to live in and delight in.”

Ward Fowler, Friday, 13 July 2012 14:24 (twelve years ago)

In a way, the avoidance of satire may be a kind of accomplishment...

jim, Friday, 13 July 2012 14:48 (twelve years ago)

lol @ "this pancake's silence"

i don't think wodehouse is satirical mostly but there are weird dark flashes in him. the story jeeves narrates, "bertie changes his mind", is as frothy as everything else i guess but jeeves really comes off as a fascist psycho in it. that strain's always there (jeeves is a slightly scary manipulative instrument we're relieved is employed by a sweetheart like bertie) but it really comes into the foreground when you're inside his clinical head and he's Doing What Must Be Done.

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 13 July 2012 14:56 (twelve years ago)

also the half-mean joke of the title. bertie does not change his own mind.

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 13 July 2012 14:57 (twelve years ago)

i also like when bingo falls in love with an upper-crust trend-bolshevik named "charlotte corday rowbotham".

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 13 July 2012 15:03 (twelve years ago)

i just read that one. bingo falling in love over and over. good stuff. that's the one where bertie overhears jeeves tell the replacement jeeves (jeeves going on holiday) that bertie isn't very smart and bertie gets sad/mad.

scott seward, Friday, 13 July 2012 15:46 (twelve years ago)

i really have to remember to write down the titles of the books i've read cuz i can never remember. can always read them again. no harm in that.

scott seward, Friday, 13 July 2012 15:47 (twelve years ago)

"Bertie Changes His Mind" is also fun because Jeeves is no less opaque than usual. It doesn't come near the mystery of why this embodied guardian angel devotes his omnipotence to the singular task of sheltering Bertie Wooster.

jim, Friday, 13 July 2012 16:09 (twelve years ago)

xxp "mentally he is negligible. quite negligible."

i assume jeeves does what he does for money -- but then, sometimes (right ho, jeeves i think? the titles are pretty interchangable. the one with roderick glossop and biffy's hertfordshire estate and the 8293759238592523 uses of the n-word :/) jeeves leaves bertie's employ and still spends all his time helping out.

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 13 July 2012 16:22 (twelve years ago)

bingo falling in love endlessly would make him my favorite bertiefriend in a world without gussie fink-nottle. the whole multi-story bingo little arc where bertie has to pretend to be bestselling romance novelist rosie m. banks to appeal to the single streak of sentimentality in bingo's uncle (or whoever) so that bingo can marry a waitress who turns out to be rosie m. banks is great. i wrote a stage adaptation of one of them for a festival when i was in high school but it was pretty embarrassingly inert. i just kind of dumped all the dialogue off the page.

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 13 July 2012 16:30 (twelve years ago)

the creepy thing about "bertie changes his mind" tho is that jeeves does for a single sentence give a motive; he says something like "when the wife comes in the front door the valet of the bachelor days goes out the back". he says that to us but he'd never hint of anything like that possessiveness to bertie.

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 13 July 2012 16:34 (twelve years ago)

i mean maybe that is sweet and not creepy. but it's creepy.

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 13 July 2012 16:34 (twelve years ago)

it kinda casts shade on jeeves' paternal sabotage of bertie's fling with what's-her-name. bobby wickham? who is unsuitably "frivolous" or something (this story contains one of what must be at least three instances in the canon of puncturing people's hot-water bottles with darning needles tied to sticks) and we're meant to believe jeeves has bertie's best interests at heart. but maybe he just can't let go.

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 13 July 2012 16:37 (twelve years ago)

"high-spirited". that's the euphemism.

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 13 July 2012 16:44 (twelve years ago)

alex cockburn wrote the preface to my copy of 'code of the woosters,' and he has a line i love: 'jeeves is a little like iago, in benign retirement from villainy, redeeming himself with good-natured and stoic penance.'

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 13 July 2012 18:46 (twelve years ago)

that's my copy too! i'd forgotten about that line. it's v good.

a hauntingly unemployed american (difficult listening hour), Friday, 13 July 2012 18:58 (twelve years ago)

amy sargeant's excellent recent bfi film classic bk on THE SERVANT also touches on the creepiness of the jeeves and wooster relationship (as does the movie itself, obv)

Ward Fowler, Friday, 13 July 2012 21:31 (twelve years ago)

five months pass...

LOL @ Kirsty Wark on the Late Review pronouncing Wodehouse as Woadhouse, then noticing everybody else's pronunciation and changing it, but LOL again 'cos she'd already recorded a voiceover for a filmed piece and obv. no-one had told her at the time (or knew) she was wrong

Designated Striver (Tom D.), Saturday, 12 January 2013 16:58 (twelve years ago)

I used to make that mistake, when I was in high school.

The Teardrop ILXplodes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 12 January 2013 17:10 (twelve years ago)

i still make it like a third of the time

difficult listening hour, Saturday, 12 January 2013 17:18 (twelve years ago)

I just call him by his nickname 'Pear' instead, that way there's on danger of embarrassment.

Øystein, Saturday, 12 January 2013 18:03 (twelve years ago)

plum

conrad, Saturday, 12 January 2013 18:35 (twelve years ago)

Quite

Øystein, Saturday, 12 January 2013 18:44 (twelve years ago)

Always had a blind spot with Wodehouse and the new version of 'Blandings' has just reinforced it.

fun loving and xtremely tolrant (Billy Dods), Sunday, 13 January 2013 19:15 (twelve years ago)

There's a recent BBC tribute to him that's available on Youtube. It shows some clips from various adaptations, and interviews with the man himself, but primarily it's a a heap of television types vaporing about their love of 'Plum', which isn't much fun. And it's presented by this man Terry Wogan -- well, I presume he's greatly loved by the octogenarian set.

Ah, here it is: P.G. Wodehouse: Life and Works

Øystein, Sunday, 13 January 2013 20:09 (twelve years ago)

Always had a blind spot with Wodehouse and the new version of 'Blandings' has just reinforced it.

Always had a blind spot with this amazing writer of sentences and this new TV thing containing no sentences has just reinforced it.

( ͡° ͜ʖ͡°) (sic), Sunday, 13 January 2013 21:09 (twelve years ago)

I read a lot of his sentences, about 3 books worth of them and still missed what others saw in him. Not enough fart gags I guess.

fun loving and xtremely tolrant (Billy Dods), Sunday, 13 January 2013 21:51 (twelve years ago)

Actually I have started mispronouncing again every once in a while, the same way I have started mixing up things that I originally posted as a joke on

Oh! I Always Get Those Two Mixed Up!

The Teardrop ILXplodes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 13 January 2013 23:39 (twelve years ago)

amy sargeant's excellent recent bfi film classic bk on THE SERVANT also touches on the creepiness of the jeeves and wooster relationship (as does the movie itself, obv)

― Ward Fowler, Friday, July 13, 2012 5:31 PM (6 months ago)
this sounds pretty good.

The Teardrop ILXplodes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 13 January 2013 23:40 (twelve years ago)

The most offensive thing I read all year is when Naipaul and his terrible wife scoffed at the notion that one could spend a couple months reading nothing but Wodehouse.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 13 January 2013 23:41 (twelve years ago)

I forgot about that. What was their specific objection again, if any?

The Teardrop ILXplodes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 13 January 2013 23:44 (twelve years ago)

Like a Corner poster, he/she claimed to have secret knowledge that at MLA conventions "everyone" secretly Jane Austen, which I can believe because MLA conventioneers can't write.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 13 January 2013 23:47 (twelve years ago)

*secretly hates

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 13 January 2013 23:47 (twelve years ago)

Yes, that I remember. Although I think my friend Stone Cold Jane Austen would take exception.

The Teardrop ILXplodes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 13 January 2013 23:52 (twelve years ago)

I think there is more than one person using that name. This is the one I am referring to: http://mizzouweekly.missouri.edu/archive/2010/32-7/round-she-goes-mu-professor-is-stone-cold-derby-dame/index.php

The Teardrop ILXplodes (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 13 January 2013 23:53 (twelve years ago)

two months pass...

http://andrewhickey.info/2013/03/09/that-new-jeeves-book/

( ͡° ͜ʖ͡°) (sic), Friday, 15 March 2013 01:38 (twelve years ago)

I sent this one off on my way to the Drones, where I spent a restful afternoon throwing cards into a top-hat with some of the better element.

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Friday, 15 March 2013 01:40 (twelve years ago)

that kind of thing is about as light as satire gets of course but feel like it gives a lil bit of the lie to people who say that wodehouse's fantasy universe thoughtlessly glorifies edwardian class privilege

the white queen and her caustic judgments (difficult listening hour), Friday, 15 March 2013 01:41 (twelve years ago)

read Jeeves in the Offing on my way back from NYC two days ago.

the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 15 March 2013 02:53 (twelve years ago)

one year passes...

yes

caek, Friday, 15 August 2014 01:36 (ten years ago)

http://sarahdeming.typepad.com/spiralstaircase/2007/05/wodehouse_du_jo.html

Dedekind Cut Creator (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 15 August 2014 01:38 (ten years ago)

three years pass...

So do Jeeves and Wooster fuck, or what

direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 06:18 (seven years ago)

they would have found the idea rather peculiar. not at all the done thing.

A is for (Aimless), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 06:22 (seven years ago)

each other, or anyone? no.

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 06:28 (seven years ago)

It’s probably a failure of my own imagination that I want to read the intensity of their relationship as sexual

direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 06:34 (seven years ago)

understandable; iirc jeeves treats bertie's rare actual girlfriends (as distinct from his more common accidental/unwanted engagements) the same way he treats ascots he disapproves of.

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 06:37 (seven years ago)

jeeves could do so much better

albondigas con gas (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 08:11 (seven years ago)

his talents could probably be better used within a different mode of social organization, but under the droneocracy he's about as lucky as bertie. he could be with gussie fink-nottle, or bingo.

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 09:58 (seven years ago)

i guess he and mr. mulliner could keep a cottage.

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 10:03 (seven years ago)

I'm not sure why anyone would choose sex when one could mix a martini.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:11 (seven years ago)

sex has more volume than a dinky martini

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:13 (seven years ago)

Whether referring to headphones or in bed, volume is overrated.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:22 (seven years ago)

is there a consensus "best" Jeeves and Wooster? I've been a little gunshy about committing, there seem to be a fair amount of options.

omar little, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:24 (seven years ago)

Man, go to your local library and scan the shelf. The consistency is such that I've read 30 pages of one novel only to realize I've read it already.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:27 (seven years ago)

Right Ho Jeeves, Thank You Jeeves, Joy in the Morning and Code of the Woosters are the canonical J&W classics, imo.

Joy is my favourite - the density of jokes and beautiful sentences is astonishing. But they're all worth reading. I haven't read any of the post-war work yet.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:32 (seven years ago)

I'm not sure there's a consensus best, but I'd guess that The Code of the Woosters and Joy in the Morning (the third and fourth of the novels) are among the most read.

I've always just grabbed the books at random without thinking about how they fit together sequentially or the overall arc of the story. Might be interesting to go through them chronologically some day.

jmm, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:36 (seven years ago)

The sequence in Joy, where Bertie has a chapter-length existential crisis about whether or not to kick young Edwin in the backside, is a really incredible piece of writing.

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:39 (seven years ago)

Various details definitely accumulate and reappear as the canon goes on, though of course for Jeeves and Bertie every story ends at the status quo ante.

direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:40 (seven years ago)

the two best novels are prob joy/jeeves in the morning and code of the woosters. (as everybody says, xposts.) and find a short story omnibus. thank you jeeves is good but a lil mean and right ho jeeves refers to the lighthearted comic device of "a troupe of n-- minstrels" more often than you will probably like. (big fan of pauline stoker the american heiress tho.)

throw it open to PGW in general and i rly have no idea, can't remember which blandings book is which. liked the monty bodkin books a lot even tho i read them entirely out of order. whichever mulliner collection has "honeysuckle cottage" and "a slice of life" is worth it.

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:42 (seven years ago)

ILB was (correctly) raving about Leave it to Psmith a few months ago

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:46 (seven years ago)

Collectors and aesthetes will want to seek out the Overlook Press editions

http://overlookpress.com/p-g-wodehouse.html

direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:47 (seven years ago)

xpost

("thank you" is the minstrels book, he pedanted)

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:49 (seven years ago)

Joy in the Morning is perfect from end to end.

― lumber up, limbaugh down (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, January 2, 2012 5:11 PM (six years ago)

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:50 (seven years ago)

oh so it is xpost. exchange that and "right ho"-- which i have just been reminded has gussie's school prizegiving and is thus essential after all

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:53 (seven years ago)

but alfred is otm you should go for that one first. code of the woosters has 1) spode (more now than ever) and 2) the best macguffin, "the cow-creamer", which i just like it when characters invoke, but it is not as flawless.

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:56 (seven years ago)

My parents owned one for years until the tail snapped. Jeeves would never have allowed this to happen.

https://www.williams-sonoma.com/wsimgs/ab/images/dp/wcm/201802/0008/img10c.jpg

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:59 (seven years ago)

The fuckin cow creamer

I want to be Dahlia Travers when I grow old

direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 17:59 (seven years ago)

read all of them when i was about 12/13 but code of the woosters is the only one that comes to mind. obviously a profound influence

the pg wodehouse book that probably drew the most ecstatic response from me was as i've said before probably standalone 'hot water'

imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 18:01 (seven years ago)

My parents owned one for years until the tail snapped

modern dutch

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 18:02 (seven years ago)

would love to see whit stillman take on a wodehouse

imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 18:04 (seven years ago)

Hot Water is next in my queue. Good to know!

Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 18:06 (seven years ago)

bear in mind this is preteen imago you're taking your tips from

imago, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 18:19 (seven years ago)

I've always just grabbed the books at random without thinking about how they fit together sequentially or the overall arc of the story. Might be interesting to go through them chronologically some day.

Due to the short stories being collected semi-haphazardly, one would need to draw up a map and flit from book to book to pull this off (I tried when I was 12 to figure out a Wooster / Blandings / Psmith chronology but failed early for lack of resources.)

Haribo Hancock (sic), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 18:35 (seven years ago)

flit

and sip

difficult listening hour, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 18:37 (seven years ago)

A Damsel in Distress is another really good stand-alone.

everything, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 19:53 (seven years ago)

Agreed! The ADiD movie adaptation is less faithful, more a Fred Astaire showcase with the Wodehouse framework, but still fun.

the body of a spider... (scampering alpaca), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 21:18 (seven years ago)

HI DERE

Psmith, Pharmacist (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 14 February 2018 23:10 (seven years ago)

The movie is ADiD is Fred Astaire with ... George Burns and Gracie Allen, correct? And Fred and Gracie resurrect one of Fred and Adele’s signature numbers, iirc.

Psmith, Pharmacist (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 15 February 2018 02:08 (seven years ago)

i saw this set in a thrift store years ago and i think they wanted like 50 bucks for the whole thing and i didn't get it and i still kick myself:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PG-Wodehouse-20-Vol-hardcover-Heron-Books-vintage-set-40-titles-British-humor/152905775633?hash=item2399e4fa11:g:~b4AAOSw8RZagkvF

scott seward, Friday, 16 February 2018 19:20 (seven years ago)

bertie! this is amazing! do you really read spinoza?

difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 08:30 (seven years ago)

A developing mind is so fascinating.

jmm, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:28 (seven years ago)

three months pass...

Oh this looks fun

https://hotelfred.blogspot.com/2018/06/wodehouse.html

Ned Raggett, Friday, 15 June 2018 22:04 (seven years ago)

four months pass...

This was quite good:

https://edwardbindloss.wordpress.com/2018/11/09/on-p-g-wodehouse/

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 November 2018 13:44 (six years ago)

Contains some transcripts of the war-time broadcasts discussed above.

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 November 2018 13:47 (six years ago)

i feel like i've read versions of this piece before (cockburn in the early 80s, hitchens in the early 90s): coming from some way left (lol hitchens but this is fair for the times) they were faintly more generous to PGW and didn't include any extracts -- so that's new

i was totally brought up to disdain him: "not funny". i'm guessing because my parents and grandparents were a certain age and well read politically informed and lived through the actual real blitz and were pretty impatient w/his choices. i've never hated one that i read but i never got addicted either. of course he has a phenomenal comic ear and we still live in the shadow of his sense of rhythm…

mark s, Sunday, 11 November 2018 15:18 (six years ago)

Need 20K words from Perry Anderson in the LRB to solve this issue for us.

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 November 2018 19:13 (six years ago)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeMLXGpVMAA9pV5.jpg

i reckon seven of the PA words here you could easily find in PGW

mark s, Sunday, 11 November 2018 19:31 (six years ago)

"when life gives you degringos, make dégringolade" is forever mine tho

mark s, Sunday, 11 November 2018 19:32 (six years ago)

I will look for them when I dive into his short stories in a week or two

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 November 2018 19:39 (six years ago)

for the full #perryandersonvocabulary bingo card, put these in order of likely occurrence:
accidie
attentat
capsisal
castellar
cursus
defalcations
dubitative
ecumene
eructations
fellation
malversation
nescience
obnubilating

one of these is a highly unlikely plumword

mark s, Sunday, 11 November 2018 19:54 (six years ago)

two months pass...

HI DERE

Only a Factory URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 26 January 2019 01:23 (six years ago)

What ho

Norm’s Superego (silby), Saturday, 26 January 2019 01:25 (six years ago)

tinkerty tonk

Chuck_Tatum, Saturday, 26 January 2019 01:30 (six years ago)

one year passes...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/06/01/wartime-for-wodehouse

This is really nice. I should pick up more and re-read Code again

xyzzzz__, Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:39 (four years ago)

That was great, thanks. Learned a new word too, popliteal. Wondering what the second imprisonment in 1944 was about, was he in Berlin all that time?

Time Will Show Leo Weiser (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 9 August 2020 12:13 (four years ago)

Ah, no, he was in Paris during the liberation and the French arrested him.

Time Will Show Leo Weiser (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 9 August 2020 12:19 (four years ago)

yeah that was nice, thanks for sharing

budo jeru, Sunday, 9 August 2020 20:23 (four years ago)

This is an interesting, more critical take on what Wodehouse was up to.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think Wodehouse was remotely a Nazi sympathiser, but the defences of his broadcasts from Berlin - such as Christopher Hitchens’ here - really have to do some work to make it stick. pic.twitter.com/HGk20rjGG1

— Elvis Buñuelo (@Mr_Considerate) August 11, 2020

xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 11 August 2020 20:45 (four years ago)

three weeks pass...

"Tea?"

"Yes, your lordship."

"Oh?" said Lord Emsworth. "Ah? Tea, eh? Tea? Yes. Tea. Quite so. To be sure, tea. Capital."

One gathered from his remarks that he realized that the tea hour had arrived and was glad of it. He proceeded to impart his discovery to his niece, Millicent, who, lured by that same silent call, had just appeared at his side.

"Tea, Millicent."

"Yes."

"Er - tea," said Lord Emsworth, driving home his point.

Hans Holbein (Chinchilla Volapük), Sunday, 6 September 2020 07:13 (four years ago)

one month passes...

I was reading a book recently where an Indian writer was saying how P.G. was very popular with him and amongst contemporaries of his because he didn't sully his reputation doing racist Empire propaganda for the Raj and the only work he did for the BE was briefly working in a Hong Kong bank or something. A rare example he gave where he mentions the Raj, that made him chortle was (which is from memory so I'm probably not doing it much justice) where a character explains the Indian independence movement as thus: "the problem is they only get a cup of rice to eat every day over there, once someone serves them a good steak they'll soon jolly well simmer down".

calzino, Monday, 2 November 2020 20:05 (four years ago)

watch me deal with him, gussie. it may amuse you.

difficult listening hour, Monday, 2 November 2020 20:12 (four years ago)

two years pass...

This is kind of weird.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Only_a_Factory_Girl?wprov=sfti1

Old Man Reacts to Cloud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 02:44 (two years ago)

This is kind of weird.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Only_a_Factory_Girl?wprov=sfti1

Old Man Reacts to Cloud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 02:44 (two years ago)

This is kind of weird.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Only_a_Factory_Girl?wprov=sfti1

Old Man Reacts to Cloud (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 02:44 (two years ago)

What’s weird about it

G. D’Arcy Cheesewright (silby), Sunday, 26 March 2023 04:36 (two years ago)

That it posted twice.

It’s Only Her Factory, Girl! (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 04:37 (two years ago)

I thought he made that title up himself. Didn’t realize it preceded him.

It’s Only Her Factory, Girl! (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 04:37 (two years ago)

Third time wasn’t weird then

G. D’Arcy Cheesewright (silby), Sunday, 26 March 2023 04:37 (two years ago)

It seems to be multiplying!

Thought maybe somebody made this film up but those citations seem legit. Rosie M. Banks is rotating in her final resting place.

It’s Only Her Factory, Girl! (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 04:48 (two years ago)

Not that I subscribe to any Wodehouse newsletters or the like but I have never anyone mention the provenance of that title. I believe I am in need of one of Jeeves’s pick-me-ups.

It’s Only Her Factory, Girl! (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 04:52 (two years ago)

How did Encyclopedia Redd know that Bertie had let a pal down?

It’s Only Her Factory, Girl! (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 04:54 (two years ago)

Maybe there were even earlier uses of that title. I seem to see some theatrical performance of something with that title in Baton Rouge in the nineteenth century along with a Victorian short story from 1881. Maybe it’s just a title that one naturally arrives at. Maybe I need to go to sleep and awake to find out it was all just a kooky dream.

It’s Only Her Factory, Girl! (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 05:02 (two years ago)

Bingo reported three days later that Rosie M. Banks was the goods and beyond a question the stuff to give the troops. Old Little had jibbed somewhat at first at the proposed change of literary diet, he not being much of a lad for fiction and having stuck hitherto exclusively to the heavier monthly reviews; but Bingo had got chapter one of All for Love past his guard before he knew what was happening, and after that there was nothing to it. Since then they had finished A Red, Red Summer Rose, Madcap Myrtle and Only a Factory Girl, and were half-way through The Courtship of Lord Strathmorlick.

It’s Only Her Factory, Girl! (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 05:08 (two years ago)

Considering Wodehouse's enormous popularity in India it's such a shame they never made a bollywood Jeeves & Wooster.

Daniel_Rf, Sunday, 26 March 2023 10:00 (two years ago)

With Johnny Walker and Guru Dutt! #onethread

It’s Only Her Factory, Girl! (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 10:38 (two years ago)

1. picked up a gorgeous old copy of "the old reliable" the other day -- will maybe report back.

2. still haven't read any of the psmith stories -- really want to, though.

budo jeru, Sunday, 26 March 2023 19:10 (two years ago)

B-b-but what about The Courtship of Lord Strathmorlick?

It’s Only Her Factory, Girl! (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 March 2023 19:25 (two years ago)


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