Big Love: is anyone watching this?

they get the language right (best example in pop cult ive witnessed, lds language is really difficult to gloss, the grammar as well as the slang is different, and they got the pious, and the derisive really well ), they are really good at the difference b/w polygymists in salt lake city or provo or st george (though this could be any of those three places, the exurban tendencies are part of the point and places near the az border (cf under the banner of heaven), they get arguements about worldiness, and isolation right, and its not exactly explotive...but im not sure i feel comfortable w.it.

I don't think the show will hold much longlasting appeal for me. It's basically just a soap opera. I did think the first two sex scenes were done really well, though... not that they were that erotic, but they just seemed pretty real/honest.

did anyone think that the scene with roman on the bed with (chloe sevigny's character, whose name I now forget) was supposed to look a little unseemly? my wife thought so, but I thought it was just meant to show Bill's worry that his wife still has sympathies with her father.

how unseemly were we meant to find Roman on the bed with this daughter?

I think the implication is there that they had done it before, which is probably why Nicki is such a fucking freak! Her dad/lover is king cult leader! These people really act like mormons I have known, too, despite the fact that mormons officially gave up polygamy long ago. It's really weird how good the kids' acting is.

It is sort of baffling to me, and even moreso last night when Bill had that talk about polygamy with his son, how we are supposed to believe this pretty normal suburban dude truly believes his lifestyle is 'the right', enough to encourage his son to pursue it. I mean, I find Bill kind of unconvincing when he talks all hardcore religious b/c he is such a very reasonable man, a trait that I don't normally associate with zealots of any sort.

like did anyone notice she lied twice in last night's episode?

1.) she's trying to have a baby, supposedly, but is taking the birth control pill
2.) while bill was banging her she kept saying "give me a boy!! give me a boy!' but then she told barb she was praying for a girl.

the thing I didn't totally get was when her brother told her she was "collateral" for the loan Roman gave Bill. I'm not seeing how that would work in Roman's favor.

Maybe no one would marry her?

I think you'd have to be pretty stupid to see this as an advertisement for polygamist cults.

the family is hardly of one mind on the polygamist business.

Yes, that's really a thoughtful touch.

Just caught up with this on On-demand. It's pretty engaging, especially with all the great acting in it. I also really dig the sexual tension between Ben (the oldest son) and Margie (the youngest wife) - and the yuxx they get out of it, like dressing the girl who pressures him into sex in the same torn denim mini as Margie.

I can sort of imagine the pitch for this at HBO: It's family drama where they're involved in this sleazy subculture, like the Sopranos! Only its all waspy and lily-white and flyover, so's to attract more red-state business. Plus, all the sex and violence but no cursing or drugs! I do think that they've gone nicely enough in their own direction with it, though, especially with the big twin theme of keeping secrets and familial jealousy, and smaller 'relatable, relevant' subthemes like prescription drugs and personal debt. Anyway, I'm hooked enough to keep watching, and since the second season hits the air next week I thought I'd see what ILX has had to say on it.

We also did the On-Demand thing in the middle of last season and got super-hooked. I love the show - the acting is so great, and I like how my attitude toward the different characters changed over time. For example, Chloe Sevigny's character starts out so unsympathetic, but started to win me over toward the end of the season. I also like how there is a rich history of the family that they are doling out very slowly. Kind of like Lost, but without the clumsy flashbacks. I also like how Bill starts to seem less likable toward the end of the season - I had a couple of "oh yeah - this guy IS a frickin' polygamist!" moments where the self-servingness of his "lifestyle" starts to peek through.

this show made me reconsider my hatred of sevigny. still kind of hate her, just not as much as before.

She sure is hateable on the show, but casting her as the prairie-dressed cultural conservative (uh-sorta?) who is nevertheless a total crackhead for malls, catalogs and HSN was a pretty brilliant move. This must have been cast right after the Brown Bunny furor, right?

When Alby shows up late one night and Nicky stares him down, you realize that she is the real rock in the family. She's a nut, and a basket-case, but she is the one who truly believes in their arrangement, and the one who would fight to keep them together.

The first episode of this was on last night on Australian tv. It was pretty good.

She sure is hateable on the show, but casting her as the prairie-dressed cultural conservative (uh-sorta?) who is nevertheless a total crackhead for malls, catalogs and HSN was a pretty brilliant move.
totally.

Pretty good, but I think I would've preferred to watch Life On Mars

bump for Season 2 premiere.

i forgot to watch it this week after liking the first episode a lot.

Harry Dean Stanton singing "Blue Hawaii" over the closing credits!

I felt so bad for Margie this week.

"I don't know if I can be married to Nicki and Bill if I'm not married to you."

Haert braeks;(

Also, LOL at Don "bugging" the phone.

Just me now?

I'm feeling worse and worse for Margie, but I loved the gag of power tools for Nicki's anniversary present.

I'm watching. Also reading "Under The Banner of Heaven" by Jon Krakauer, for a full Mormon experience. This is a coincedence - i started watching the show last year, and my boyfriend picked up UTBoH at a yard sale for $1 on Sat. - so I started reading it Sunday, just in time for episode two!
Clhoe Sevigny - I never hated her, and she is perfectly cast. The Mom (Of Bill Paxton's character) is tremendous. It's chewing the scenery acting from some players.
I REALLY like this show - but I don't know why.
Marjean going to the compound and the woman and kids running into a hole? It's those details that make it fun, as well as...I guess (like the Sopranos, blah blah blah)taking the family dynamic into a different realm, so you identify with "the family dynamic", but also enjoy being the outsider/observer/audience to this particular family.
of course, my family dynamic could be an HBO drama as well...but.
Yup, I'm watching. Loved the watch/power drill dichotomy.

We're hooked. In fact, I may just take a second wife.

I want a sister husband - oh, wait, i have a few of those.

Heck, I'd be happy with a chain of super-size hardware stores.

What WAS the hole the woman and kids ran down - (I'm assuming spoilers don't matter since noone else is watching this, and the episode already aired).
Was it because Marjeans arms were bare?
Or teh fear of Nikki?
Also, the scene between Nikki and Barb: "Nikki, I know you love this family, but YOU CAN'T HAVE FUNDIE MORMON HUMMERS RUNNING INTO PEOPLE FOR REVENGE!
But, you're right, the family IS important."

"What WAS the hole the woman and kids ran down?"

Tornado/bomb shelter? I think a lot of the fundie mormons believe in a literal era of Tribulation and that's what all the stockpiling food is about, so maybe a shelter for that.

And yeah, fuck anyone worried about spoilers. The show aired, this is the thread for watching the show.

I'm also intrigued by the developing Niki&Bill/Margie&Barb split. Not that they're all breaking up or anything, but the first two were born and raised out in the weird-ass sticks, and the others in a relatively normal suburban environment, and it definitely shows in their interactions.

But - when the woman and the kids run down the hole...there's no reason, except for Nikki visiting, or maybe Marjees bare arms.
Anywhoo, it was a minor detail, but marjee brings it up at dinner.
I liked all the different sister wives of Roman recording their album.(especially the pre-pubescent one).
Plus, as the show goes on, you and me, oilyrags, can carefully trace each characters relationship to each other!
Just don't try reading "Under the Banner of heaven" while trying to post about the show - I keep on wanting to talk about Brigham Young and Joseph Smith, but they aren't in the show.

"Best chicken in the WORLD"

lol

I loved when fucking Albee brought the cops down to Juniper Creek, and one of Roman's first orders after finding out is "READY THE PLANE"!!!

I can not for the life of me figure out how Rhonda got in the car.

I have a hard time with this show - the conservative Christian outlook bothers me much more than the cult/polygamy/etc.. It makes me uncomfortable when they start talking about Bill has the priestship-holder of the family, final arbiter, etc.

I think that is supposed to make you uncomfortable. It's the equivalent of Tony whacking a couple of guys a season on the Sopranos, just about the time you start to feel for him.

You know that the show was created and developed by a gay couple, right?

Oily OTM, especially this season - the moments where the Mormon mindset breaks through the "normal" family facade (cf. last week when the bro & sis are talking about pre-marital sex, & she reminds him that they were taught that having sex before marriage means you go to Hell) are cute little reminders about how odd the family actually is. I'm talking about the Hendricksons that're outside the compound, FWIW.

That moment in the first episode of the season, where Bill gives his "I believe in the covenant of plural marriage" speech - it's both a heartening affirmation of his commitment to his family, as well as a fucked-up testament to the strength of his beliefs. The show plays off this duality beautifully, & (which is even more impressive) does so w/out camping it up.

In other news, Albee is a delicious fucking asshole.

My favorite Albee Is An Asshole moment is when he picks up the drifter, brings him to his hotel room, plays hard-to-get, starts weirding the drifter out by banging his head against the wall until the drifter leaves, then goes back to his newspaper like nothing happened. Last week's "confession" to Nikki, tho, is a close second.

Stalking his niece might top both, tho.

Man, I hate Elton John. Almost as much as I hate Journey.

The "No, this conversation is about cheese." scene was brilliant.

"Let's go shopping, I'll but you something nice. I have $24 in food stamps!"

...buy

I'm beginning to think that Bill is an extremely self-centered guy who uses his belief in plural marriage as an excuse to have more than one woman.

Also, how many Mormons are there in Serbia? And was Margene a Catholic before she married into the Henrickson family?

"I'm beginning to think that Bill is an extremely self-centered guy who uses his belief in plural marriage as an excuse to have more than one woman."

!!!!!

What did you believe before? That he was just a nice guy who happened to have three wives?

Apparently, sarcastic understatement is not my forte at 7:30am, PST

But, in all seriousness, was Margene not even LDS before she married Bill, Barb and Nicky?

Also, what do you think (if any) the incidence of lesbianism is among sister wives in real-life polygamist communities? Any thoughts?

I don't think you can get a green card by marrying in as the fourth wife in a family.

I pity poor Rhonda. Who wants to be the fourth wife.

it's a great show, and Chloe Sevigny inhabits her role so well.
I guess the lesbianism among wives shoud be addressed by someone more familiar with the religion and the weirdo adherents.
But, kudos for thinking about it. You and Roman would see eye to eye.

No, no, no....I'm not getting excited about the prospect of it, either positively or negatively. It was just a thought.

Roman and I would see eye to eye on few things, if any, including the viability of bolo ties and cowboy hats as everyday wear on a bride ranch.

I pity poor Rhonda. Who wants to be the fourth wife.

I just saw this week's episode (wherein little miss Rhonda tells Barb to step off), & I have to lol @ this sentiment. Girl's been an evil shrew since Day One (or whatever day it was when she stole Bill's daughter's iPod).

Also: WTF w/ the man-woman and the blowtorch!?!?!?

Also: John Carroll Lynch as the cop dad!!!

Man, true. Trading Sara for Rhonda to protect your daughter's moral compass is...well, I guess on this show they'd say "fudged."

"If I wanted an old caboose, I'd call union pacific."

"I saw the horrible things you made our husband do!"

Chloe Sevigny owns this show.

Chloe sitting on Bill's lap while he tells her she's a good girl = creepiest sex scene ever. Nikki has Daddy issues.

Suddenly they're marketing this show to guys (tribal drums and sober fonts in the ads).

Yeah, I'm not super-pleased with the action! action! action! direction they've been taking in the promos. I suspect it's about holding on to as much of the Sopranos audience as they can.

Too bad there ain't much "action" going on (unless Bonnie Bedilia flirting w/ GAME OVER MAN counts).

OMG ;_;

(Crying about Benny's break-up, BTW - you can't kill The Prophet!)

It really thrives on the tension between the major dramatic tropes put into a certain situation.
And then it runs with the tropes and the plot thickens.
The three wives in their nightgowns!

The sex scenes and sex talk were cringe inducing - You're a bad girl/you're a good girl.

i was probably failing at being sarcastic above thread.(Apologies to BLAM for any snarkiness.) Also, the "marriage" between wives has really been developed well, I think, and your questions about sexuality between the wives are being answered by Margie!
She's there to party, within the god damn covenant! (Trope - if only within the regular Christian triad of women.)

I saw the finale last night, but I don't want to be a spoiler. Did everyone else see this?

i missed it! watching it tonight though.
i guess i'll stay away from the thread untill later

Yes.

I wonder how Rhonda's doing?

That's why I posted the warning post...I didn't want to ruin anything for anyone.

never saw first season but saw all of the second season incl. last night. I fucking love this show.

This season was excellent. You really should go back and watch the first season, too. Its pretty consistently excellent, too.

Found it a bit of a let-down this season, with the exception of Sarah's arc. Her telling off Bill was probably the highlight of the season for me. Rhonda was fun for a while but was consumed by her own caricature. Albee's transformation into Henry V just seems like implausible melodrama - he wasn't a ne'er-do-well or wastrel, he was a fuckup and a dim bulb, and worshipped his papa. The leopard changed his spots too quickly.

I think we're supposed to read that the wife that helped him keep Roman in the coma was the source of the ambition to overcome his father. He always had ambition - he finished two years of law school - but it was mostly, if not all, channeled towards pleasing Roman. It was diverted through the course of Roman taking Bill's side in the poisoning thing, and Roman not seeking atonement for Bill's beating the shit out of Albee. Now, its a dim bulb with name, recognition, and power who has turned a 180 on his dad, and is just lashing out like the total idiot that he is.

Sarah's arc was great - I like Amanda Seyfried. She is pretty able to pull of the intelligent, had-to-grow-up-quick oldest sister character without losing her essential kidness. And she's very, very pretty.

without losing her essential kidness

So true. I was all like PLEASE DO NOT SHOW HER BOOBS SHE IS LIEK A CHILD TO ME.

funny, I was like, PLEASE SHOW THE BOOBS.

up drunk and late on my birthday in a motel room in Salt Lake and this was on and hey, it was great. will rent s01.

Seriously. I'm sitting there with my wife, and at bra removal, I say "Man, she's got some big ta-tas." My wife looks at me, eyebrow appropriately arched, and says "Ta-tas? Seriously?" To which I respond "I have to call them something like that. It would be muy creepy if I start looking at her as a sex object. She's this great little innocent girl character, and I'm not the pervvy 30 year old who lusts after high school aged characters on television. Same thing with Hermione."

"So, the actresses aren't hot, either?"

"Didn't say that. Pictures of them out of character, I will totally say that she's very attractive, hot, curvy, etc. In character? She's a 17 year old, Mormon virgin. Not attractive."

"That makes sense, in some way."

nice start to the the season. new wifey in the mix..waht??

Cast away kids listening to "shove it"

I thought Nicki was going to get the whole family in trouble with talking to the doctor about it not being her choice! Phew.

The last scene with Sara - OMG!

guys this show sounds good

It's very good, and will make you love Chloe Sevigny if you allowed yourself to hate her because of her constant appearances on Go Fug Yourself

i saw chloe sevigny

sunday's episode was maybe my favorite one ever. the only thing that sort of left me a lil unsatisfied was margene's grief over her mom's death. i hope they do more to develop it. i predict they will, and that her dyeing her hair blonde (i just saw a quick peek from scenes from the next big love) will be related.

the cast-away kids, the sara/ben last scene, the fucking intense-o-thon with bill's parents -- all of it was spot-on. not only that, but barb is finally making herself redeemable for me.

question -- is it a cop-out for nicki to have been mistreated by her father? this way, it tips the balance for her towards her married family, when the shit inevitably hits the fan. i guess i had expected that she'd be even more torn between the two, and i actually thought she might end up siding w roman, especially with chloe's frequent public blah feelings about the show. and with ana coming in, it seemed just right. it's still thrilling, and im sure it wont actually be a cop-out, but i really expected barb (cancer) or nicki (family/compound loyalty) to be gone by the end of the season.

was she really mistreated by her father? She was married young and unhappy about that, but she got out of it, thanks to Roman, right? If anything, the final scene made me think that she's even more then ever in denial about the wrongdoings at the compound and out to help her father, delighted to have the chance to hear the opening arguments. Tearing her page out of the book to both hide that evidence but also block out that memory.

I didn't see most of the first season and things are getting really confusing. What was all that about Bill's sister or somebody's suicide?

In any case, last episode was bonkers and great, it felt like it was 3 hours long and had so many developments...

i thought it was her dad who forced her into the marriage where she was raped? and/or at least whose system allowed her to be put in danger...

we dont exactly know whats going on with that story, i think. they mentioned something about it prior in this recent episode -- i think it wasnt bill's sister, but his mother's sister-wife.

the first season did talk a lot about what really happened to bill's grandfather, which i fully expect to come out in full this season.

Eek, the ending with Rhonda in the truck did not bode well.. Even if it is fiction I feel sorry for the kid, lying, selfish asshole that she might be.

(I am a week behind.. no cable)

Definitely felt sad for her...in these last episodes she was less ruthless and manipulative and more confused and grasping at straws. She couldn't even tell if she could trust Bill due to his flip-flopping. Totally lost.

It was pretty heartbreaking, that she's living for the "big dance" that Roman was to throw for her, and then saying "but he said he loved me" when Nicki's mom (I forgot her name.. Arlene?) gave her all that money.
Actual LOLs when I watched the scene with the gay married man who was trying to pray his way straight <--I am a bad person.

Man, this show is getting pretty heavy! What a sad ending to the last few episodes.

not watched the most recent one, but the road trip episode was really great. above and beyond what this show normally does imo.

only one more episode left this season. still loving this show btw.

Nope, three more according to IMDb.

i like that I started this thread and my current answer is "no". but only because I don't have hbo anymore. i should torrent seasons 2 and 3.

Haven't seen last night's episode, but apparently it was the finale - short season! The episode before last was INTENSE, I hope it was misleading...

oh! I missed the link above.. haven't seen last night's but my friend said it was "definitely" the finale, weird. I won't prod further right now because I don't want to spoil myself!

Last night was the season finale but I think it's been picked up for another.

No spoilers here, it's good but nowhere near as good as those two or three episodes a few episodes back where the music got weird and intense and they just built and built and built. This one finishes up a lot of threads and opens a few new doors to be explored next season no doubt.

The show is fairly ridiculous, but it's definitely become one of my favorites.

OK so that IMDb link I posted above is obviously lying cuz HBO is calling last night's ep the season finale. But
MASSIVE SPOILER AHEAD (and Wikipedia spoils it too so don't go there)

I'm finding it difficult to believe he's actually dead, esp. given how OTT the show's been getting. Was his chest still heaving in that high angle shot or am I just soaping it up?

Uh oh. I placed TONS of space between the Spoiler announcement and the actual Spoiler but it disappeared!

Spoiler? But that was the second-to-last episode. Are you really asking if he's really dead when we've seen the finale? Shouldn't you just watch it???

can't imagine they would fake us out again after the gunshot thing (not a total fakeout i admit, but enough of one). think he's properly gone. less juniper creek now, thx

xpost

Dan, I think I've confused you. If not, I'm living in a serious time warp.

Still SPOILERS ahead but now I'm not so sure they're spoilers.

OK the person I'm talking about is Roman Grant. In my time-space continuum, he died in last Sunday's episode which HBO is claiming is the finale. It seems as if you're saying that he died in the second-to-last episode which as far as I am experiencing the universe, isn't true. So as far as I know, he's dead, he died in the finale, AND I've already watched the finale.

I was asking, given the ever-soapier turns the show is taking, if he was REALLY dead, i.e. wondering if there might be SOME way in some even soapier turn that he is not dead and that next season, he'll be revived in a hospital or the first shot of the first episode will show him sputtering for air or something similarly soapy. Gukbe got it. :)

Also, second-to-last episode or finale, a spoiler is still a spoiler to anyone who hasn't seen the episode in question.

SPOILER

No way. Albie's continually tenuous reign over the compound and the reappearance of JJ will mean that there will continue to be Juniper Creek storylines.

Also, I can't believe that Bill's dad is out of the picture entirely.

I do expect, however, that Nickie's role in the family will change dramatically, given the revelations of the final three episodes. How, I'm not sure.

And damnit, if those scenes with Barb at the temple didn't break my heart. I'm not one to defend organized religion, and especially not LD$, but she seems to have a true faith, and to have it taken away from her in the way that it was was just rough.

The Greens, on the other hand, are hysterically clueless. Also - are we to think that Roman's sister is a tranny?

But in case Dan doesn't come back for a while, can someone at least confirm that Roman Grant died (future resuscitations notwithstanding) in last Sunday's episode which was indeed the finale?

I think he's dead. Joey wanted vengeance, and the way in which they showed him standing over the recently-pillowed body made me think he was watching to see if Roman was actually dead.

This is a damn shame - Harry Dean Stanton is one of my favorite actors, and I think he really, really owned this role like few others could have.

I'm still laughing over here about "HOLLIS...GREEN" What a fucking nutjob.

Oh yeah, sorry, for some reason when you said "high angle shot" and you're mentioning the lie about "last night's episode" being a finale I thought you were talking about Bill's fall in the barn after the fight with Joey.

SPOILERED...

Here's what I think. Roman is dead. JJ is the new "bad guy". Next season's tensions will include JJ trying to get his daughter back, JJ and Alby and Alby's mom's power struggle, Nickie's confusion about her role with Bill and the family and her daughter. God knows what complications the daughter will add to the family. Margie's new career, etc.

Also Joey's future.

Agreed entirely.

Is anyone else REALLY loving Margie? "I'm not the little girl you married, Bill." AWESOME.

Whew! Ok, thanx for clearing that up.

Margie's career will be fascinating. I predict that just as she's about to break big, someone will find out about her life and fire her. (Did you know Margie has a blog on the HBO website??????)

xxpost
Yeah apart from soapier writing, the other reason I couldn't quite believe it is that they'd be disposing of Stanton.

I love Harry as much as the next, but his role was just getting too repetitive...like, things have to change finally.

The best line of the episode was Margie saying "you're not losing Sarah, but you're gaining Scott"

Yeah! and I am totally crushing on Sarah's character right now. Amazing.

The DA is gonna be PISSED when he finds out that Bill's brother offed Roman.

Yay, I caught up and can tread in this thread!

Also, I can't believe that Bill's dad is out of the picture entirely.
Did I miss something - was he addressed/in a scene? Our are you just commenting on the fact that he wasn't in the last few episodes? I can't remember when I last saw him...

Sarah's gasp when Nicki revealed her daughter was pretty great, I wondered how Sarah was going to react to suddenly having a sister only... 5 years (4 years?) younger than she is? Also, how old is Nicki, do we know? It seems she must have had that girl at 16 or so. :(

Margene definitely is a fun part of this show. I definitely LOL'd at the "gaining Scott" line, ugh, who would want to gain that twerp? The little girl line was pretty cute too. I thought she'd get in shit for bringing the baby onto the shopping channel from the egotistical lady who "signed"(?) her onto the show, but no. I loved her little shoutout to Nicki's boys and their "is she RICH?" reaction to her being on TV. Wayne is so cute! Can't remember the other boy's name... :P

Also - how is it possibly legal that the DA can be all "Everyone upstairs KNOWS [Nicki was probably a spy/you are married to Nicki/etc]" and threaten to bring it to court? Isn't he obligated to bring it to court? I feel like he seemed to be the kind of person who obeyed the law at all times, but it seems like he is keeping it hidden to use for his own purposes? I agree that he's going to be pissed when he finds out about Joey!

Grant dead!! that dude was bringing the lulz in the last episode and will be missed. what a short season though. hopefully the break won't be as long this time.

It has been so long since this was on the air I've forgotten all the plotlines. I just read two GREAT SPOILERS though!

*********************SPOILER*****************************
Alby is going to have a boyfriend next season
Margene is going to get with Ben (COME ON)

*********************SPOILER*****************************

Awesome.

what was awesome? i watched it but i was drunk.... and i feel like i start each season with a vague recollection of previous seasons. not sure why i watch this show... also, new dp? the lighting was very harsh.

I thought the show was awesome. All the stuff w/ Alby. I'm excited for this season.

this is back on?! hooray! when i go home tonight i will look for it online.

i'm super excited too, the first two eps have been pretty spectacular and the new look and direction is great. except for the opening credits, hate them. WTF with Alby tho?!?!

I HATE that they changed the credits...Wouldn't It Be Nice was so PERFECT.

i was thinking they'd lost the license or something...

margene is in TROUBLE!

You mean God Only Knows.

Oh yeah. God Only Knows.

That was really stupid of Margene, it was a real, "has this show gone off the rails?" moment?

that has been building for ages! yeah, it was dumb of her to do it, but she's not really the brightest...

She's the hottest of the three though, no doubt.

i can't keep up with this show. too much insanity in each episode. could really do without bill's bro and less of nicki.

I know it's been building, but to think Margene would slip like that, just seems a bit out of character.

I finally caught up to everyone on this show. Just in time to agree with dan about the last five minutes of this last episode. ugh! I really found Margene's business to be enough plot for her, she didn't need some creepy bullshit out-of-character affair thing on top of everything else that's going on.

Are they wrapping this show up soon, or just trying to snare more viewers? Seems like the show has been really over-the-top so far this season, like they are really ramping up the drama - what with people digging up corpses, running for office, hitting people with cars, and all.

I HATE that they changed the credits...Wouldn't It Be Nice was so PERFECT.

And now the sub-par Mad Men rip-off.

So much wrong with last night's episode:

-- Brand new Teeny.

-- The state senate campaign plotline is absolutely ludicrous. It appears nobody on the show has ever been involved in a state senate campaign.

-- Don "taking a bullet" for Bill. Apparently, nobody involved in the show has ever heard of insurance fraud either.

hate new teeny >_<

i still enjoyed last night's but it was pretty damn clumsy. man that multitude of children can just float away sometimes.

i like the new visuals but hate the song - it's hard to follow "god only knows" even if you're not some indie mush, so why not just set the floating to "god only knows"?

Oh man at alby and his mother...

- why am i always called upon to do the morally ambiguous things?

omg bill secret gay-for-pay past!

I love how just completely batshit this whole show has become.

wow, every week, even more crazy!

I have been following this show from the get-go, and sometimes, sometimes...I wonder, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON? WHO IS THAT GUY AGAIN? WHAT THE FUCK? Anyone else?

i was confused by the greene's in mexico. And I thought this season was crazy enough without the freaking illegitimate baby! I'm thinking that will be what torpedos his campaign...not the polygamy.

this season is nuts. it's kind of a train wreck, but I can't stop watching it. if their goal was to make me totally turn against Bill and root for divorce and emancipation - at least for Marg and Nikki, they've done a good job of it. each wife seems to have a way out that to me seems preferable to staying in. I am kind of hoping that this season ends in total catastrophe and the next season is just everyone trying to pick up the pieces. I am wondering if it will all end with Bill as the next prophet; just moving back to Juniper Creek with maybe 2 out of 3 of his current wives, after losing the casino and Home Plus.

Loving the fact that Bernard Herrmann's music from Vertigo comes up in Jodeen's scenes

... which they did in Season 3 as well

"Honey, what do you really know about this Portland place? I looked it up. There’s heroin. Everywhere."

Oh Nikki, never change.

nikki is just great

Also, my wife (who works in state government at the legislative level) and I lolled when Bill said he could do something about the immigration status for Margene's new husband once he gets elected. Yeah, right!

Bill's conviction that his election will solve problems rather than create massive new ones is hilarious.

I like Nikki's self-awareness that she's deranged, her little 'I think I'm damaged' conversation with Bill was heartbreaking.

After the last ep this one seemed pedestrian, I like the adventures of Strike Force Mexico Bill.

Once again only Sara has a clue what anyone really thinks and feels since they all live in massive denial.

Too many massives in there

At this rate Bill's going to end up with just Nikki in a trailer in Juniper Creek

xpost Bill's rationale of becoming a state legislator as something that will somehow save them once he outs themselves as polygamists is as fantastical as how the writers are portraying the campaign. Don't let that felony conviction hit you in the ass on the way out of the legislature.

Yeah, I can understand that in Bill's milieu people are supposed to give way to faith-based missions but this seems insane no matter how you look at it. Why people aren't saying 'why would we not all just go to jail rather than living in the house of our dreams Bill?' escapes me

That's not to say i don't find the batshittery this season fascinating, because I do. Totally looking forward to the season finale -- not sure how they can wrap it all up though...

Yeah, it's like a train wreck you can't pull your eyes from. This is just a halfassed guess, but I would imagine that Sissy will kill Bill's chances at the last minute, which leads to an election defeat, which leads to much soul-searching re his 'mission' and possibly one of his wives bailing. If Alby completely loses it Bill's then in a position to be the new Juniper leader, which people have been after him to do the whole time anyway. And as a viewer I'd rather see Bill running/transforming Juniper than him as a politician.

Or we could have a new season of Oz with Alby and Bill sharing a cell.

and no mention of JJ...seems like rather then resolve anything with him, he's being set up to be the new bad guy come next season? What is he up to? Why did Roman call him back to censure him? Why does he have no nails and why is his wife sick? We were thinking AIDS, to be honest. And how creepy was his father?

Creepy enough to call every woman he came in contact with "babydoll" as he was eye raping them.

As if the eye raping weren't creepy enough, I should add.

another development I'm not looking forward too...Barb and Tommy?

I am glad they're developing Tommy beyond the prick they were setting him up as, though. But it is weeeeeeeeird.

and no mention of JJ...seems like rather then resolve anything with him, he's being set up to be the new bad guy come next season? What is he up to? Why did Roman call him back to censure him? Why does he have no nails and why is his wife sick? We were thinking AIDS, to be honest. And how creepy was his father?

― dan selzer, Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:22 AM (20 hours ago) Bookmark

i guess i thought itd be something more baroque? something involving incest/inbreeding and wanda? my gf thinks his son is giving nikki depo shots -- is that clear?

xp im okay with tommy and barb having a confusing and sweat-lodgy time, but i hope it doesnt become a full-scale scandal? feels too formulaic now after nikki and margene had their kisses...

my gf thinks his son is giving nikki depo shots -- is that clear?

Wasn't she having trouble conceiving before getting the shots though?

feels too formulaic now after nikki and margene had their kisses...

That seems to be a running theme, that Bill 'is not there for them'. Bill's much more engaged with his mission(s) rather than his wives' reactions or needs. 'This family' is usually Bill code for 'whatever I think needs to get done'. This has to bite him in the ass eventually.

I like how quixotic his mission is - he wants to get his polygamy accepted by the world at large, and he's ignoring the one place - Juniper - where he could actually be accepted.

Whoa, Chloe Sevigny on Fresh Air right now

wow! great finale imo

So, next season picks up a couple of years later....Bill never stepped foot in the Leg -- they wouldn't seat him. He is out of jail and back in Juniper Creek with only Nikki. Margene and Barb stayed back at the house(s). The season details his struggle to wrest control of Juniper Creek from an increasingly unhinged Alby while trying to bring everyone back together. Just total batshittery.

Wait, is that fact, or speculation? And if fact... aw man, why you do that to me?

totally great finale, and btw...

i guess i thought itd be something more baroque? something involving incest/inbreeding and wanda? my gf thinks his son is giving nikki depo shots -- is that clear?

xp im okay with tommy and barb having a confusing and sweat-lodgy time, but i hope it doesnt become a full-scale scandal? feels too formulaic now after nikki and margene had their kisses...

― 69, Tuesday, March 2, 2010 10:11 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark

just sayin ;D

Xpost. Relax, it was purely conjecture. But I was thinking that with the polygamy, insurance fraud and using casino funds to support Don now that he became the scapegoat (and why Don is not jail now I have no idea), Bill is going to do some time unless he works something out with the feds on blowing apart Juniper Creek and the compound in Kansas.

I totally thought that Bil was going to lose, pull out of the race or win and not make the polygamy speech. Gotta hand it the writers for going there.

Sorry for the poor spelling/missing words in that last post.

i think u spelled everything right

i was kind of upset when that couple was creeping on Margene.

i wanted bill to show up and go all tetherball gangster on that dude again.

omg i loved that scene so hard

both the tetherball and the one w ana and goran and margene.

SPOILERS IN THIS POST

using casino funds to support Don

Ok the writers should have dealt with this immediately. For like, what, five episodes, I kept wondering how (if???) Bill was going to compensate Don for taking the fall. Right off the bat, Bill should have said "yo, take the fall and I'll use casino funds to compensate you." It was sloppy to wait this long for that reveal.

Also, how on earth did Adaleen tie up JJ and his wife, esp. with Bill there? Did Bill (and an increasingly conscious Nicky?) help? I doubt it but still I wanted that to be fleshed out a bit more. I'm not digging how the writers seem to brush away over-the-top stories in this manner, e.g., the Mexico standoff with The Greens. Ben mentioned it once and now it seems as if it never happened. Did it even impact their lives?

In general, though, waaaaaaaaaaaay intense season and lotsa fun. Almost unbearable at points.

Predictions:

Alby goes left-wing, gay rights psycho

The casino and the hardware store suffer but closet polygamists happy about Bill's announcement purchase mega stock to keep the businesses afloat

And I'm assuming that Ana and dude are fucking with Margene so they can stay in the country. So they might amp up a threeway situation towards that goal.

Right off the bat, Bill should have said "yo, take the fall and I'll use casino funds to compensate you." It was sloppy to wait this long for that reveal.

I just took it as read that Bill would be supporting Don's family in some way, and that would probably involve funds from Bill's businesses. Did the show leave you assuming that Bill would leave Don penniless?

The thing with the Greens, though, yeah. Bill doesn't tell his family the details until he absolutely has to, eg his brother offing Nikki's dad. So I thought he would just be vague about it. But wasn't there a scene in which Ben is at the house talking about being held in a cage?

A lot of stuff happened offscreen here, which usually bugs me - Barb's calling the press, Bill doing away with Tommy - which merited some kind of scene. I assume they were cut for time ...

Loved the threesome implication because of the obliviousness to the similarity with Bill's marriage(s).

Now that they've reached a peak of insanity with the finale I have no idea what's going to happen. I really liked that Bill not only won but gave the speech - for four seasons the show's been about AVOIDING EXPOSURE and now it's a totally different show.

I think the Greens would make excellent lobbyists.

The speech is brutal - Bill pained, wives stunned, public confused, complete silence, total anticlimax

I'm not digging how the writers seem to brush away over-the-top stories in this manner, e.g., the Mexico standoff with The Greens. Ben mentioned it once and now it seems as if it never happened. Did it even impact their lives?

This pretty much sums up my problem with this season. And yes, there was a brief scene where Ben discussed this after the fact. But...he almost got executed. You'd think this would have some lasting psychological ramifications or something, yeah? So much insanity has taken place this season only to be sorta brushed aside as inconsequential. This from a show that made Nikki's credit card debt a major conflict in the first season.

Yeah and THAT was a story I really wanted to see more of! (LOVED Suze Orman in that: "Nikki, I am mad at YOU!")

I just took it as read that Bill would be supporting Don's family in some way, and that would probably involve funds from Bill's businesses. Did the show leave you assuming that Bill would leave Don penniless?

It left me period which is not what I call good writing (on a show like this; this isn't art cinema where ambiguity has a significant structural presence). But I'm glad they took up the thread later.

this season was a total mess, but I'm glad I stuck with it. I hope righteousmaelstrom is correct with his/her theories about next season. this show doesn't need to be on a grand scale. I wouldn't mind if it were, like, 75% Juniper Creek politics and backstabbing, and 25% outside world plots, to be honest.

http://www.popeater.com/2010/03/26/chloe-sevigny-slams-big-love-awful/

the whole AVCLUB interview that stuff is from is great.

She is right though, this season really went a bit insane with its leaps..

the whole AVCLUB interview that stuff is from is great.

― dan selzer, Friday, March 26, 2010 4:11 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

i enjoyed it & think she's rad, but thought it got kinda ridiculous when the 'what's it like always being asked about the same shit' angle segued into 'so, the brown bunny ... what's with that'

I guess I can see what she's saying, even though I love the show. The insanity keeps ramping to the point where you can't really see human beings in there, they start to become cartoons. In a way I'm perversely impressed that they took it as far as they did.

Maybe in a way Barb is kind of lampshading the insanity/being the voice of the audience by wanting to bail from the marriage.

"I want for us to move back to the compound, because the compound is what interests me as a viewer, and as an actress, I’m more interested in what’s happening over there. I’d prefer for us to go back to the compound and (Bill) take over (as prophet), like my character wanted."

Weird, this is what I was hoping would happen. I thought they were setting this up with all the people hovering around Bill telling him he should do this.

I totally had said what she said, about how it seemed like they rushed the season, put so much in there that major events happened in a flash and the ending seemed like a finale for the show. This could have easily been two full seasons.

I need to catch up on the last 8 or so episodes of the last season, as the new one starts on Jan. 16 and it will be its last.

omg! omg! I can watch it in real time for once!!

and by 'real time,' i mean RIGHT NOW!

i found this episode to be reallly tedious.

was wondering whether to bother picking this back up for the final season, but that is not the season premiere review that is going to compel me to watch. was really down on this show last season, so it's no surprise that it is continuing to suck.

yeah it basically feels like they left off last season mid-season and the premiere was just another mid-season episode.

i feel like i'll watch just because i want to have finished the series but...

Yeah I probably will, too

I saw the first few of last season, gave up, saw the finale last week and am really intending on going through the rest of the run. Not bothered to watch the premiere yet though. I hope it makes good on its potential now that it knows it is ending. Although I probably won't be happy unless the wives and kids completely revolt and tell Bill he's a misogynistic asshole.

GF said, after watching how amped-up and over-the-top that episode was, "This is starting to get like 'Weeds'", which is a bad thing. I kinda agree with her.

We dropped HBO to save money and figure we'll catch with this show on iTunes or DVD when it comes out, though we don't have high hopes for it being great. Now I won't look at this thread again until we finally do watch it.

"we" being you and you wives?

i can't believe this show has been on for like five years now, yikes

Seriously, fuck this season. Cannot wait for it to end. I'm almost watching it out of habit. So unbelievable and soapy.

The politics stuff is just breathtakingly stupid. The writers have obviously never stepped into a state capitol building before.

even now it's kind of hard to turn my back on this show. it was so good for the first twos season! i vowed to never watch again halfway through last season, but the finale was so bonkers that i'd probably still be watching it if it wasn't for the negativity on this thread.

insanity rollercoaster, this show!

well, how about that.

Soap opera end to a soap opera show.

I thought the scene of the three of them in the Mini was heartbreaking, it would have been nice to end it right at that point and let the viewer imagine how everything would have unravelled. It's as if they couldn't be bothered to actually resolve any of the plot threads so they just shut off the plot-driving device (Bill's relentless ambition).

On one level, I like how it ended being just the wives because that was what the show was best at. Mostly I feel like it was a cop-out. Bill was never a great character in the way that Tony Soprano was, but there were a lot of interesting things they could have said about him but didn't. I think the creators had a different moral take on him than I did, though.

I also feel like that scene in the senate where they talk about the ways in which polygamy has been good for women was cheap. I seem to remember reading some years ago that the creators wanted it to be an allegory for gay marriage, or at least the gay experience of being an outcast when it came to notions of love and family, but the two aren't remotely equivalent.

There were some good scenes in this episode though, and even if the last two seasons have been pretty poor, I enjoyed watching this one.

Extremely disappointing. It felt so truncated and tossed-off. And what exactly happened to Alby?

I kept thinking that they had so many story lines they needed to tie up when what happened with Bill happened, I thought that's one way to wrap it all up and probably the best way. I was hoping they weren't going to have any more scenes in the legislature in the last episode, but oh well might as well give us more proof the writers don't know shit about legislative process. I'm glad the series is over -- the last season was so flawed.

xpost to polygamy being used as an allegory to gay marriage. My wife makes me watch that terrible Sister Wives show (don't watch it, it's fucking gross) and they use a lot of the same buzzwords and reasoning that people do about legalizing gay marriage.

alright, i came to this show late to the game & only know have i watched the first four seasons. first season was a bit boring but solid, second and third were pretty good. the fourth, however, was ridiculous & not in a good way. i'm wondering whether i should stick it through the fifth season when it becomes available on DVD -- any thoughts?!? i mean, this show was always kind of ridiculous and soap-operaish. but is there any semblance of plausibility in the last season, or should i just shitcan it at this point?!?

The fifth season is better than the fourth, and crucially it's the last one, so why not?

I really enjoyed the very over-the-top last season.

I think I've made my thoughts pretty clear about the last season, but if you've made it through four seasons, you might as well finish it up.