panic attacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization_disorder

p.s. i am never doing drugs again

I am currently seeing a biofeedback specialist, google it, it seems to be quite effective, I've noticed a little improvement, and have only had 3 visits.

i have attacks. usully only last a couple of hrs.

Palpitaions

There must be other threads as well. Good luck.

not to raise your anxiety levels any further (!) but i started with the symptoms you're talking about. look after yourself, try to keep trusted friends and doctors in the loop and lay back on the drugs - although booze can be helpful for a nightime knockout - go red wine! preferably get something prescribed. chloropromazine hydrochloride 50mg will damp you right down, give you a good nights rest and it's not addictive.

best of luck

true. having one doesn't mean that you're now going to be subject to a life of them, especially as it seems a pretty clear-cut case of cause and effect. i had a really horrible one in college and would have gone to the emergency room if my friends hadn't stopped me, and many of my friends had similar experiences. the people who experienced ongoing problems were the ones who had psychological problems to begin with, and by problems i don't mean garden-variey neuroses.

did you go to the hospital, amst? if so, was anything done for you? my friend had to take her boyfriend in about six months ago when he swore he was having a fatal heart attack after a night of hedonism, and all he got was a "you're too old for this kind of thing" lecture.

I know enough about what's happening now that I can sort of wait them out, breathe deeply and take a few minutes for it to be over, but that doesn't make them suck any less. Most recent one was a few weeks ago, first day on my job (even though I'd been volunteering for months in the same office) and faced with performance anxiety and overwhelmingness of all the work I'll be responsible for.

I've never heard of biofeedback treatment for this. What are your sessions like Ronan, if you don't mind sharing?

-I quit getting high all the time, it took me years to figure out it's just not good for my quality of life or my brane
-I quit my crazy job where I was basically doing four people's jobs at once and got a relaxing job where I don't have to talk to anyone most of the time (it pays less but I'm also not spending +$150/mo on the drungs)
-I quit talking to my parents because it was stressing me out and I hate them
-I started going to a counselor at the Uni.

Basically anything TERRIFYING or unduly stressful I kicked out of my life. Drugs can be really fun but I was terrified of going crazy, pretty much convinced I was going to end up schizo beyond repair. Trips & such only affirmed this or ate off those fears. Scary and not at all helpful. I have some dear friends with mental issues far more trying than mine and the only times they're able to keep out of the hospital and hold down a job/stay in their band/do whatever it is that makes them happy is when they aren't getting high or drinking maybe more than 3-4 drinks a week. It's hard to cut that out of your life but it's helped my friends a lot, and me by following their example.

I was having panic attacks at least 2-3 times a week before all this, most humiliatingly at work. It felt like the world was falling apart, I felt dizzy and out-of-body, it took all my energy to hold it together and function (ie respond to people's questions). Then at some point I'd get too drained to keep it up and I'd start crying and hyperventilating. i wouldn't be able to even think.

It would happen at home, too, and my boyfriend was always very consoling and sweet about it but I felt terrible. He didn't move in with me so he could hold this crying, shivering heap of paroxysms. I felt like my autonomy was taken away from me, they'd happen at random and it was really terrifying. I wouldn't want to go to school in case it would happen there. It was fucking with my life way too much.

Getting off drugs helped me more than anything with this. Good luck & godspeed, it isn't a permanent situation and as it progresses, you'll get better at being able to control/avert them.

Basically the biofeedback person (specialist?) hooks me up, elliott in ET style, to a machine, with those wires with circular pads at the end. One goes around your fingers, on both hands, and measures palm temperature. Two or sometimes three go on your neck. I'm not positive what all these are for but I know one is for muscle tension.

She then does a breathing excercise or a relaxation excercise and sees how you manage to lower these readings from your initial levels. When I first visited she said some of mine were particularly high in line with other patients she'd seen. Over the next few sessions she notes improvement or change.

So far it's been a worse before better thing, but I've been told this is the way it goes with biofeedback, and after 5 or 6 sessions apparently I'll notice a big improvement.

I've taken drugs maybe once in the last 8 or 9 months, and been drinking way way less, plus been eating alot better and taking vitamins. I think I will take up swimming or something relaxing like that, to try and help myself along.

I do reckon drugs probably play a part in the way I feel now, I know friends of mine who've been way worse than me but sadly that doesn't mean anything of course.

In the back of my mind I still wonder if other problems could be causing the way I feel but I've been checked out so often and my biofeedback specialist said she's never been referred a patient by my particular doctor whom she didn't subsequently help.

So yeah biofeedback, it seems effective enough so far!

anyway i guess i know that i have some kind of problem which i can't simply explain by reference to a bad reaction to pot. or maybe it was some kind of "relapse" that won't repeat itself? in any event, i will seek professional help soon....

btw i started taking a new brand of multivitamins this week--could this have triggered an attack? seems bizarre to even speculate.

i guess the big question is whether this is the expression of some longer-term underlying anxiety problem or whether something really did just go "snap" when i had the reaction to the drug. i'm not sure which "answer" is more distrubing, actually.

I was gonna go to the doctors on friday but somehow i overcame it and i didnt go and today (sunday) i felt fine)

Good luck man and I hope you feel better soon.

strangely i have more vivid memories of the attack than of the following morning, which is still all a fog.

that not being able to swallow thing seems like a pretty classic sign, at least I know I get that alot when I'm feeling sort of off and not breathing right. My problem is more stretched out over a few weeks, with no really strong peak, though it can be worse at times, then it goes again for a week or two and I'm just tired/fatigued. But I definitely have had that weird sensation when eating, as if I'm about to choke on every bite, sometimes I get it even when not eating, like I need to keep drinking water cos my mouth keeps drying up.

It's great really, I'll miss it so much when I feel better.

Once you accept that you have the disorder, and you google for tips on how to deal, the attacks lose a LOT of their power.

Still, I'd rather have panic attacks that this.

Part of what freaked me about getting panic/anxiety attacks before was that I couldn't think my way out of them (just made them worse). I bet having that kind of physical biofeedback way of learning to manage it and seeing your situation measurably improve would be reassuring.

i didn't have a full-on panic attack last night, but i definately had an "anxiety episode", due to worrying about my financial situation. The financial shit should hopefully take care of itself in a months time when i have my 90-day review and hope ta God that I get hired on for good. Until then, i dunno.

it strikes me that my problem isn't so much the situation causing the anxiety, but my habit of mentally latching onto the shit and obsessing. Also, since i think like an engineer, my fight or flight response manifests itself in me trying to immediately solve the problem. Hell, i can think myself out of all these other problems, why shouldn't i use me brain to punch thru this one, too? 'Cept it becomes like trying to win a race by pedalling an exercise bike.

Tho, i did figure out that the actual need is to just survive the moment.

anybody ever tried this kava-kava stuff?

i'm not an engineer or anything but i'm very familiar with this... even though i know it's ultimately a pretty destructive way of thinking/coping

I'm sorry yours are back...

Lately I've been getting these.. I don't really know what to call them. They don't seem to be panic attacks, judging by what I've read about them (for one thing, mine only last a few minutes, rather than half an hour), but they're definitely scary. It's just a feeling of complete and overwhelming hopelessness and anxiety, so intense that I can barely even walk, and it seems to get worse with every breath I take. Inevitably, my mind starts racing, looking for anything I can think about to make me feel better -- music or poetry or people I love or good experiences from my past, something, anything -- and when that doesn't help, it just gets worse, and I'm convinced that everything I care about is worthless and I'm a fool for caring, that I've wasted my life, sometimes even to the point of getting suicidal thoughts. I've suffered from depression for a long time (I'm not on any medication at the moment, nor am I self-medicating to a significant degree as I've done in the past), but this feels very different. When I get really depressed, I usually just lie down somewhere and ponder my situation until I feel better; it's bleak, pessimistic pondering, but it still seems productive in some sense, and it usually ends up making me feel better (when I finally reason my way to "hey, things aren't so bad, stop feeling sorry for yourself and go do something"). This new feeling is much more acute and overwhelming: it springs out out of nowhere, and suddenly everything seems completely out of my control, like I've just been strapped to a rocket and there's nothing I can do until it stops; I get so overwhelmed and confused that even thinking is impossible (I know this seems kind of at odds with what I said above about how my mind starts racing, but it's weird, all of that thinking seems... somehow automatic and uncontrollable, like it's not me that's doing it).

I'm wondering if anyone else has any experience with something like this, and if there's a risk that it could develop into full-blown hour-long panic attacks; I could easily imagine a situation where it doesn't go away after a few minutes, and I just start feeling worse and worse and freaking out and worrying that I'm going crazy, so that's something I'd like to be prepared for in case it does happen.

First: I don't know you obviously, but I don't think you're going crazy. What you're describing are true panic attacks, and the chance of them developping into losing your mind is very slim. However, it does totally fuck with your mind. And I also believe there is a risk of them getting longer, yes.

I've had panic attacks like these - alongside a depression as well - for a period of five years. I can safely say the last two years have shown a lot of progress, even though it's still, always, lingering in the back. And those remains will never go away. I, too, at first believed I was losing it. I had the same mindracing you describe, mostly because I was so desperate to find a reason for them to happen. There had to be a reason right?
Your description of your feelings during an attack are very similar to what I felt (and still sometimes feel, I don't think it will ever go away). Trapped on a train to nowhere, blind hysterics in the mind because you don't know where to look, what to think, how to manage... I lost control over my muscles as well, shaking all over, weak knees, terrified to piss my pants before I could find a bathroom. It's gutting, drains your energy and makes you feel absolutely miserable. Like you said, you 'think' a lot but it's mostly a scary stream of thoughts, uncontrollable.

The desperate race for finding the cause only made it worse, but I couldn't help it. I've 'lived in my mind' all my life, so to say, always procrastinating, worrying, thinking, always cautious. To spoil the ending right now: five years of attacks and meds and different therapist never brought me any closer to that 'reason why'. Au contraire, the search only opened Pandora's box: everything suddenly seemed likely to be a reason for the attacks, so I had to think, re-think and comprehend all those possibilities. That for sure didn't help. What did help though (a little, but it's something) was learning some 'tricks' on how to 'rewind', how to prevent my body going into red alert-mode automatically. I have given up looking for the reason now; I don't believe there is a reason anymore, at least not something beyond stress and depression, a wrong clash of different circumstances and feelings at the wrong time. It was probably just fucking bad luck to have that first attack.

Because that's where the physique comes into play. After a first attack, there's almost always a second, a third etc. When you're experiencing an attack the body goes into defence, heavily. Which is a good think if there's danger, but with panic attacks, there's not, not in a rational 'this bear is gonna eat me' sense. But the mind learns stunningly quick from that first panic attack, and starts associating. So it will happen again the next time, say, when you're on a street, in that shop, or in whatever condition or surroundings you were when it first happened.
(I know this is a rational description, I realised this pretty soon after my attacks started. But that knowledge was useless when the attack kicked in.)

That's the tricky part. My humble opinion is that you try to seek professional help for your attacks fast. The longer you wait, the more you/your body will 'think' it's normal behaviour to act like you do when you have an attack. And we seem to learn something a thousand times quicker than un-learn things, I know now.
It's in this where the danger lies that your attacks could become longer, or happen more often. Because they have a way of normalizing like you wouldn't believe. And because the mind is basically helpless when it happens, you probably can't rationalize your way out of it, and thus can't do anything to stop it from happening more often.

Don't worry about going crazy (what's being crazy anyway?), but do take it serious. If you experience your panic attacks more often, please try to seek help. Because it really can help you to stop them from getting longer, more intense. All the best.

quick solution: take some time to fill a cup up with water, sit down, drink the water

xpost

LBI: thanks a lot, your post was really helpful. I've been talking about seeking treatment for depression for a while (can't do it at the moment, as I'm in the middle of switching my insurance), and I'll definitely bring up the panic attacks while I'm at it. Also, I should be clear that I know I'm not really going crazy, nor am I at risk of it; just mentioned that since it's apparently one of the symptoms some people have, and I could see how it would happen to me if I got used to these short episodes and then suddenly had a longer one, all freaking out and thinking "oh god, I've finally snapped! now it's gonna be like this forever!"

Interestingly, I don't usually have multiple attacks in a short span of time (although it definitely happens sometimes, especially if I try to go right back to whatever I was doing when the attack started). Instead, I just end up fighting through the first one and then feeling completely drained; it can take me hours to get my brain working properly again, and in the meantime, I just feel like a dead, emotionless lump. Not sure if this is an aftereffect, or just a coping mechanism that my body has developed to prevent them from recurring; but either way, it sucks.

I don't have practical advice about panic attacks bernard, but on a general level as someone who has had a bad time with not knowing why physical symptoms are happening and wondering to what extent mental causes might be to blame, I just would like offer good wishes. I know finding/wanting answers for stuff like this can be a really frustrating and it always made me feel better the more people even answered threads like this on ILE.

Getting these again. Hard 'n' strong. Not long lasting, but strong enough to want to cry. It's different from before: there's constant waves of tears wanting to come out, feeling sleepy, crankiness, bursts of real panic. Yesterday I was chatting to my friend and nearly burst out crying. Even now. It drains me up to the point I want to run away. I am extremely "fluttery", I can't seem to focus. I think it's mainly due to my driving lessons (and fast approaching exam). I fucked up badly in my lesson. Funnily enough I don't walk out of the situation right there and then, I just get the pannic attacks afterwards. This night I woke up (Elisabeth) and didn't manage to fall asleep. I kept thinking about the driving. (No, I don't get pannic attack when I drive.)

I don't feel as though I need meds, really. But maybe something herbal would be good? Or therapy? Fuck, I really don't know. :-(

Feeling exceptionally insecure. I get paranoid here even.

i'm sad to hear this nath. i know you said you didn't want meds but it might be worth thinking about asking your doctor about beta blockers. they really helped with mine and i think they are non-addictive with minimal side effects (none for me, actually). of course they may not be appropriate for you and they can't be used by people with some other conditions (e.g. asthma) but it may be worth asking.

Thanks. Shld look into this or therapy. :-(

Awww Nath this sucks.

thing is, that it's "traceable": I know for sure it's due to my driving lesson (and fast approaching exam). god damn that's pathetic to admit, isn't it? i love driving but i am so scared to cause an accident. (i'm not that scared, that i free up when i drive! if that'd happen, i would never EVER get behind the wheel) i think in a way i lack coping skills. i can't put things in perspective. for ever in doubt, insecure about, well, life and all that shit that's in it. in a way i am hesitant to take meds cause i think/realize that i am not that 'bad off' and that... i'm not worthy of taking'em. and it goes in flows, y'know, i feel shit now, but it'll pass. i hope.

If you think meds'd help, and if your doctor does, then it can't hurt to try imo. It's not like you have to take them forever. You've got it linked to this one situation, when it's over you don't use 'em anymore. I don't think there's anything wrong with using medical help in any life situation. If you're thinking about talking to a doctor, do! Don't feel guilty about it.

Not that I'm saying that's THE solution or the ONLY solution.

People get v sensitive about this topic.

Maybe I should. I just keep hearing my former therapist banging on that it would have to be upped over time. Of course the dude didn't talk about the panic attacks (aside from shitting on meds). :-(

(Also, my mum brought me up with: "NO MEDS")

Things like this, I don't think there's a right or wrong way to deal with them. What's important is you make it's manageable and doesn't fuck with your day-to-day life. If it is, I don't think there's anything wrong with doing anything legal that might help you through it, so long as it doesn't hurt you or others. (well, even legal --- the husband deals with this stuff, in part, by smoking weed, and that's ok imo.)

and if you think meds might help, it doesn't hurt to try. imo

Yeah, you're probably right. LIke I've been postponing the exam - which of course has only fed my panic attacks even more - and also resulted in meandering through life. It's not that it's really halting my day to day life, but it hasn't been a positive effect either.

You're really insightful about what's going on! That makes things muy easier, for real. Schedule the exam for as soon as possible! Get your good friend or husband to stand with you while you schedule it, or if that's too scary, see if they'll make the call for you. Have them drive you to it. Basically see if you can't get someone to (kindly) wrangling you into doing this. If it's just this one thing you're hung up on, get it out of the way! I know it sucks and is scary but you'll be very very happy when it's all said & done. Rent that cool Volvo you love as a reward when you're done and go take a weekend drive.

Problem is: I ALWAYS worry about sth. If it ain't the exam, it'll be about sth else. Basically my life has an undercurrent (or main current) of worry. The levels of worry/panic just differ, but it is always there. Lingering or plain full attacking me.
God, isn't it funny as a kid I once asked my mom:
"Mom, what's it like being nervous?"
hahahahahahahahahahaha.
I am not sure I want to give this up. I know it sounds silly (except to those who have it as well). It was like my depression: suddenly it defined me so I was hesitant to give it up.

i haven't had a panic attack since i last posted to this thread (a few years ago), but i have had numerous anxiety attacks that, if i didn't know how to dampen them, might have grown into panic attacks. i was hyperventilating the other day -- that weird sensation where you're breathing shallow and hard, and you think, "now if only i could breathe," and you take a deep breath, and then it just gets worse, on and on an on. i ended up just lying down on my stomach and tried to remember the melody to a song. eventually it got back to normal.

woke bolt upright certain i was dying, i was already dead, i was having heart attack, that i couldnt breathe. almost called 911 calmed myself down a little pacing pacing pacing glass of water deep breathes. no im okay. i think i had a panic attack. yes while sleeping. drink the glass of water suppress the fear im too afraid to ever sleep again still v v anxious still v anxious still anxious

could be that you stopped breathing while you slept i.e. sleep apnea.

I haven't had a proper panic attack like Lamp just described in years, but it's not something I forget. I did call 911 on myself when I had my worst one -- it was this time of year, my college roommate was gone and I was alone, and in fact the whole city seemed to be gone. You know, like that Twilight Zone episode. It was Austin, TX in the West Campus neighborhood, which is mostly students, so it is very empty come the holidays. Anyway, the ambulance showed up, told me there was nothing at all wrong with me except that I seemed a bit freaked out, told me to watch it with the weed, and left. (Cost me $300 for that advice.)

Full-on panic attack or not, I'm still no stranger to getting v v anxious in the middle of the night. I often wake up with my mind racing, in medias res, and have to slowly mellow myself back to sleep. Smoking helps a little. Eating heavy carbs helps, too. The most effective antidote seems to be having my girlfriend roll over and mumble something nice to me. But I'm not with her every night, and if I'm alone I usually just get up, shower, and start my day, even if it's at 4:00 in the morning.

yah i dont think i have sleep apnea - it felt a lot like a panic attack which ive had before just a lot more intense than anything ive had since high school. ive got a some irl stuff ~going on~ right now and i had the displacement/difficulty breathing/nausea for like half an hour after i woke up

lol now worried abt not breathing while i sleep tho :/

My advice is... have a shower.

It is true that waking up with your heart racing can be a symptom of not having been breathing. But that's not the kind of thing that happens just once. Another symptom of sleep apnea: getting up multiple times during the night to pee.

I have agoraphobia. It's like panic disorder. I had to go on disability because of it.

BOO!

Naw, I'm kidding. I'm just enough of a mess myself to imagine what that's like.

Is there a word for agoraphobia that only happens when you have a crappy job and you're in your office? Because I might have that. During the day I fantasize about finding a good job. At night I have nightmares and wake up panicking about having a bad one.

I know I know... suck it up, etc.

You don't want to leave your office?? I never had that problem, I was always happy to get to the office. I find things like driving, commuting and shopping difficult. I have a really difficult time at crowded events.

Oh, sorry, some context is in order. I have no regular job at all. I'd love to commute... but over time, when you start to slowly realize that you're commuting to something that is going nowhere and does nothing but drain your energy and possibly your mortal soul, you look less forward to it.

I know, again. It really does sound like whining. I know this.

fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

I'm taking herbal drops. (They suggested taking these when having my driving exam. 20 drops is for calming effect, 30 is for sleeping. You can also give it to your kids if they are restless.) I'm not sure they help that much, but I can calm down when I'm anxious instead of going into anxiety overdrive.

Of course it won't be available where you reside, but ask your pharmacist for something? It won't help *erasing* the problem but it might soothe you? It's with valerian which is a herb used against sleeplessness and anxiety.

Valerian is used against sleeping disorders, restlessness and anxiety, and as a muscle relaxant. Valerian often seems only to work when taken over longer periods (several weeks), though many users find that it takes effect immediately[citation needed]. Some studies have demonstrated that valerian extracts interact with the GABA and benzodiazepine receptors. Valerian is also used traditionally to treat gastrointestinal pain and irritable bowel syndrome. However, long term safety studies are missing. Valerian is sometimes recommended as a first-line treatment when benefit-risk analysis dictates. Valerian is often indicated as transition medication when discontinuing benzodiazepines. (from wikipedia)

i'm wondering if me taking the proton pump inhibitor messed up the effectiveness of my Effexor, cuz I've gotten the shakes back adn I haven't had them regularly in six months :(. the warning on the box mentioned anti-anxiety medication except it wasn't the type I take (mine's technically an anti-depressant).

hate this.

Do you get weird shakes when you forget to take your effexor? someone who's on it and I know, says he does.

honestly my heartrate speeds up more and I just get edgy and emotional. I didn't realize how much the meds curbed my emotions until I went without it for a week.

as far as the shakes, yea, but I generally got those before I started taking Effexor. I've always been the anxious type, but due to excessive stress beyond what I was used to in my life last year, I developed tremors and started having panic attacks. Effexor has evened them out but lately doesn't seem to be working as well. I had a theory that maybe since the proton pump inhibitor reduced thea mount of acid in my stomach that my meds aren't getting absorbed properly...we'll see I guess. I'm gonna get out of the house and get some work done today and hopefully that wll help!

i guess since the cat is out of the bag as to what my old posting nickname was (thanks a lot j0rdan), there's ample evidence on this board as to what I'm like unmedicated :)

this is honestly just killing me

had a panic attack on a plane about a year ago, it was up there as the worst moment of my life. Since been cured by my constant air travel for work, often in tiny planes..

haha i think if i was unable 2 madly pace when im in the worst part of an attack i wld completely lose it :/

Of course it won't be available where you reside, but ask your pharmacist for something? It won't help *erasing* the problem but it might soothe you?

for a whole bunch of reasons im p skeptical/resistant to treating this w/ medication, even herbal drops. as much it wld be nice to not be woken bolt upright during the night suffused with unbearable dread i feel like this is probably less abt wiring and/or chemistry than ~thoughts & feelings~ if u its even possible 2 distinguish these

yuh i think it had a lot to do with being in a confined space?? dunno..I didn't make a scene thanks entirely to my gf. but yeah that feeling of not being able to breathe was so awful. Hope you're ok man!

xpost I understand and agree up to a point. Of course it also depends on the level of anxiety. But I honestly think for me it has helped, together with analyzing my panic attacks (or rather anxiety). I can shrug my anxiety off. It's certainly not gone but has lessened. I don't believe this would have worked without the drops (or some therapy). I don't really like to do therapy, too much work finding the right person, and prefer to just take the drops.

I once had a panic attack on a plane. I literally wanted to run to the door, open it and jump out. It was the fucking weirdest thing ever.

feeling ur pain lamp. what are your attacks based on?

past month i started getting anxiety and panic issues. I've since been seeing a therapist, and it's done me wonders. i too refuse to treat it with medicinal treatment but that's just my choice and i don't think there's anything wrong with taking something for it, even my therapist suggested i should get something from the docs if the sleeping persisted to be a problem, just to break the pattern. (waking up around 4am with high anxiety for unknown reasons and not being able to relax for most of the day).

touch wood past week has been helluva lot better. i've changed my diet too and have been eating a lot less garbage, although this was a personal preference because my anxiety was based a lot around a health issue.

funnily enough my health issue started when i was alone in nyc, and i became stressed for the remaining days i was there. Then i had to catch the plane home of course (to uk), which was hell at newark due to a seven hour delay. The thought tho of getting on the plane in my current state was utter fucking dread, being hemmed in economy class as you are. it just made me worse.

but then due to the chaos at the airport, upon boarding, i was given a business class seat! can't help feeling that someone was shining down on me at that moment, such a relief.

hey, i forgot that i started this thread. luckily since the two attacks (one major, another quite minor) noted above i think i've only had incipient attacks that i've managed to quell.

i did have a bad case of anxiety when i was last on a plane, which i quelled by closing my eyes and imagining the videos to various songs (!). although at one point the plane dropped a few feet, shook a bit, which broke my concentration and embarrassingly enough i let out a short and sharp, "oh god!," which i think freaked out/amused my neighbors.

i really need to look more into trans-continental train travel.

its a combination of legitimate anxiety over the consequences of some recent ~life changes~ coupled with a predisposition towards negativity/anxiety generally - dont really deal well with lack of control/security

part of the problem is that i somewhat rely on the extra adrenaline from being anxious/wound up to get things done & sleeping only 3/4 hours a night but at some point the anxiety tips too far & i get a p severe attack & instead end up pacing & trying to calm myself down. altho lol im doing some editing atm so

I'm wondering if this isn't the real reason why you don't want to take anything for your panic attacks. Bipolar sufferers often feel the same way--they think that a mild state of mania helps them get things done, but it ends up getting in the way.

i dont even know

so combining these with incredible amounts of alcohol: not a great idea

hey lamp i webmailed you this book title, don't know if you got (awhile back), but i posted this on the anxiety thread and meant to post it here as well:

http://www.amazon.com/End-Panic-Breakthrough-Techniques-Overcoming/dp/1572241136/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1

an end to panic: breakthrough techniques for overcoming panic disorder
by elke zuercher-white

i was recommended this book by a friend, and bought it for my husband to help him work on his flying phobia-related panic attacks. it is a REALLY great book - he's still working through it but so far it's been extremely useful.

one of the initial things the book deals with is helping you to figure out if you have a panic disorder, a phobia-related panic disorder, or high anxiety. the book's concentration is CBT and teaches practical breathing techniques to deal with the physical panic symptoms. interestingly, the worse thing you can do when having a PA is try breathing deeply - this actually worsens the symptoms!

also interesting: my husband was convinced that he doesn't hyperventilate during a PA, but there is a 90 sec test where you force yourself to start hyperventilating and it brought on all the other symptoms of a PA that he gets - numb hands, back of the neck starts sweating, racing heart and total mental panic.

just1n3 i did end up ordering that book and it was p helpful

generally much less anxious although some nights like tonight are still p bad

YEah, the dark and lonely nights are awful. :-( I can feel my medication is suppressing it so kind of weird feeling. :-(

i don't know if this helps but i had severe anxiety for a long time and i was convinced i was just never going to be normal. i even remember reading this thread, reading anything about panic attacks... would bring on that tingly forehead feeling and hot flush and racing heart. at the time, i didn't believe things could really improve. i remember laying in bed and feeling trapped, feeling my mind and body going haywire. the symptoms began after a huge dose of lsd and i just assumed i had permanently fucked up my head in one night.

i think i talked about this somewhere else. and i don't even know what improved. part of it was taking paxil. it made me get super fat and i couldn't come and i hated the withdrawal symptoms. but it got me over the hump or whatever. i think i completely didn't believe in shit like therapy and i had no money for it and i had no idea where i'd even track down a therapist or whatever.

i don't really have a neat conclusion here. i guess i just got so used to being anxious and having attacks that i could figure out how to reroute my thoughts. i figured out how to sort of approach the symptoms in a rational way, if that makes any fucking sense. i could sort of slide around them, think about what was setting me off. i realize now that therapy or whatever would have made that process a lot easier. i think.

i don't think these are pro tips or anything but when i read threads like this i guess i was always waiting for someone to say: hey, this fucked my life up so so so so bad that i wanted to just not exist anymore, and now, after a long time, even if my life is still sorta fucked up, i can actually fall asleep at night. i remember... just feeling like i was roasting, heart racing, laying face down in bed, my mom rubbing my back, and just feeling like there was no way i'd ever fix myself, that i'd ever be able to just close my eyes and fall asleep in my own bed. but, fuck, right now... i can.

i'm not sure if that's helpful at all.

well 'helpful' idk but i can relate to so much of that and even now that i think im 'better' i still have nights like this where im just so loaded w/ all the old fears and worries that i vibrate w/ them

the worst part of the whole thing for me is that im a lot less comfortable alone w/ myself now than i used to be and i dread having to go to sleep. i used to relish the ten or twenty minutes you have a night before you fall asleep just idly fantasizing abt things or making plans but now theres always this low level worry about making it through the night w/o another attack as well a tendency to worry abt all the things that give me anxiety in the first place. ive noticed that im just less capable of having only my thoughts for company now too, that i lean on things like ilx or games or gchat to avoid situations where i might be overwhelmed w/ the whole 'how i am going to make rent/why is my research progressing so slowly/everyone knows im a fraud' mantra and just, idk, the whole psychic weight of it, this idea that im not really safe from myself

i feel you on that. being uncomfortable with yourself in silence. after i got past the bulk of the anxiety, i was still fucked up by being completely scared to do anything at all, to think about, say, paying rent. i wasn't anxious but i was scared to leave my laptop and headphones. so, i'd stay locked in my dorm, not going to lectures. things in my life got progressively worse just as i was getting used to not wanting to not exist. i'd sit there and obsessively do... whatever. like. i guess, even now, when i want to think about SERIOUS things, i approach it very carefully-- i handle myself really carefully, i guess.

and i think back to when shit first got started, when i was sixteen or so, and constructing these crazy playpalaces in my head to give my thoughts a place to go. i constructed this ad&dish world in my head and whenever i got creeped out by my own thoughts, i'd start making up the history of a new continent or... this possibly makes no sense, when i describe it. now, i guess i still do it but i do it with trying to figure out something i want to write, or... you know, i just always have these escape routes, things that i keep in the back of my head that will distract me. as time goes by, i find myself being more and more able to appreciate my own thoughtprocesses again and a healthy level of anxiety.

I think one of the only genuine panic attacks (as oppsed to an anxiety attack) ive had was in a yr 12 exam, and it was the first one so I had no idea what was going on.

A combo of the exam, my period, and the knowledge I was gonna meet my bf i hadnt seen in months a few days later all landed on my head in that biology exam. I recall trying to write down answers, and my handwriting scrawling all over the page spastically and looped and big and weird. The room spun, I felt cold and sweaty, and apparently I then stood up, knocking my chair over, and asked to leave the room. Not very pleasant.

Glad it helped some, lamp.

Something that jordan told me he's finding useful is having these prepared answers for the crazy thoughts, e.g. if he begins having a very specific negative thought, he has a positive counter thought already prepared. It doesn't necessarily help much the first couple times but it does seem to have a cumulative effect that is positive.

I'm so glad my panic attack phase only lasted about 6 months.

I've had what my doctor describes as mini panic attacks. Basically I just feel shaky and weak with shallow breathing, nothing more than that. I wasn't even aware they were panic attacks until I went to the doctor.

I've never had a full blown panic attack, nor do I want to. I have enough social anxiety as it is.

i have slept the night since thursday oh god

Well that was fucking awful.

:/ think it might have been doubling up on the Ativan?

At my desk at work and had a weird chest pain and all of sudden it just escalated to all of this

Most sufferers of panic attacks report a fear of dying, "going crazy", or losing control of emotions or behavior. The experiences generally provoke a strong urge to escape or flee the place where the attack begins ("fight or flight" reaction) and, when associated with chest pain or shortness of breath, a feeling of impending doom and/or tunnel vision, frequently resulting in seeking aid from a hospital emergency room or other type of urgent assistance.

Especially the last parts. I stood up to tell my co-worker I needed to go to the hospital and felt like I was going immediately pass out. Then I took two ativan and literally hung my head out the window for about 20 mins. I think I'm OK but I'm still pretty shaky and lightheaded. That was so scary.

x-post - No that was a couple days ago and I hadn't taken anything since. I think I'm just stressed and tired I had a horrible 2 hour commute and I think the chest pain was just like indigestion or something but my first thought was omg I have a blood clot (because, yeah, that's a normal reaction) and it all just escalated from there.

bump

You doing ok, mordy?

i'm in the process of buying a condo and i'm finding it incredibly upsetting + stressful. i'm thinking about changing my mortgage lender bc i'm unhappy w/ my current one and i don't think he's looking out for my interests. this plus already delicate neurology = short of breath + panicked feeling all day. the whole process in general is so stressful. the bank sent me a pdf of over 120 pages today to sign - no explanation of what they were + as i sorted through them i just found myself getting more and more upset + overwhelmed. not to mention the immense financial obligations + requirements to do this ARGH. the entire thing is just so opaque + tedious + unending; i hate that when i ask my mortgage guy a question he answers w/ 15 minutes of complex figures + percentages like i should just be able to follow everything he says. idk. i hate complaining about rl issues on ilx - esp since i know that it's a privilege to be in this position and be theoretically able to buy a house in the first place so i just get to feel ungracious on top of panicky - and i think i know what the answer is anyway (i'm going to talk to a new lender) but yeah. thanks for asking, just1n3 it feels good to vent a little bit.

That all sounds super stressful (we were seriously looking into buying but then we had to move rentals, which was such a clusterfuck that now I'm just WE'RE STAYING RIGHT HERE FOREVER). it does sound like you'll be able to lessen some of the stress soon, then you'll have your new place and can chill.

Is there someone who can help you go over the paperwork, someone in position to understand the process fairly well? (Eg parent?)

Are you on anything to help manage the symptoms? Short term prescription for a sedative might help if you're not.

My parents are not very financially savvy unfortunately. I'm on the regular regimen of SSRI's to manage general anxiety. I'm also doing some light self-medicating (which is hopefully not contributing to the stress, which I know it can be). You really nailed the biggest issue though which is that I need to be doing this w/ someone older who actually knows how to do it correctly. I don't trust my lender to look out for my best interests (it didn't help that the interest rate he quoted me seemed obscenely high).

I once thought about polling ilxors about SSRI's bc I imagine the % is very high.

What about other relatives or in-laws, even older family friends?

Or just ask the mortgage person! I had similar issues while buying and we just asked tons of questions -- there's no shame in that, and there's no reason they wouldn't be able to answer you. It's their job! Hope you feel better.

stabbing pains in the chest and an hour of monitoring your heart rate so you dont have a heart attack

I think this thread is more for general panic attacks, but I had a very specific one today. I was at the dentist, and over the radio they mentioned a fire in my neighborhood. On my list of worst fears, fire--losing all my books and records and stuff--ranks very high. Thing was, I had just carted in a couple of hundred baseball books earlier in the day, into a basement that's got way too much paper already. The next half-hour in the chair was excruciating.

Never did find out where exactly the fire was.