Come anticipate "Nacho Libre" with me

yeah, when I finally saw it I was ready to be totally offended & for the first ten minutes I was, but after that all I could think of was this old girlfriend I used to have in La Puente & how she would have reacted, and I bet she would have thought it was the second funniest thing ever, right after that clip of Juan Gabriel falling off stage

(BTW, I thought the cousins driving up just to shake their heads was one of the funnier moments in the movie)

or a fucking tenacious d movie. or, you know, something fucking funny for once in his fucking career.

This film looks suspect obv.

xpost THANK YOU!!

it never came across (to me anyway) as a meanspirited portrayal of mexican americans.

me neither. people are way too jumpy about racism.

Wouldnt go that far. I just generally think people misinterpret ND as being condescending to its characters but I don't find that to be the case.

Really I have 0 interest in seeing that film again at this point though.

If only Vincent Schiavelli was alive though :(

i can't think of anything else i like him in but i find him pretty likeable.

heat vision & jack was kinda funny but i can't really imagine wanting to see any more of that.

i'm not looking forward to this though.

Mostly I just hate all manifestations of the "white guy adopts black slang poorly" storyline in any movie, and Kip Dynamite's version really bothered me. Perhaps even more than Robin Williams's and arguably moreso than David Cross's ("Rickey Henderson bit"), both of which are like nails on a chalkboard to me. But beyond that, I felt like the movie exploited Lafawnduh's otherness (i.e. not a white Mormon/Christian) as a sight gag, especially as far as how the Kip/Lafawnduh scenes were paced and shot, and that bothered me as well.

Wait.

OK will somebody let me know if that guy in the Red Stripe commercials is for real or not? I'll be in the eternal conundrum.

OTOH, "HOORAY BEER" is fucking awesome. I've started drinking red stripe because of those ads.

What really bugged me about it was this - were we supposed to think of ND as some sort of nerdy outcast, or was he just a hipster trapped in near-rural suburbia? I mean, his outfit was so over-the-top (frickin' MOONBOOTS?) that he would look perfectly not out-of-place standing in line at Taqueria Cancun. Plus, he's a Mormon, which just ups my confusion level (which, of course, could be """"""""the point"""""""").

Nacho Libre looks goofy, but who knows...

OTM!

But then again, that place owns me.

The curse and mark of Cain in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

After the death of Joseph Smith, Jr., The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was the largest of several organizations claiming succession from Smith's church. Brigham Young, the church's president, clearly believed that people of African ancestry were under the curse of Cain. In 1852, he reportedly stated:

"[A]ny man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] ... in him cannot hold the priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ..." (Diary of Wilford Woodruff, January 16, 1852).

Throughout his ministry, Young maintained his view that black skin was part of the curse of Cain, and that black people were still under that curse. On February 5, 1852, Young stated:

"What is that mark? you will see it on the countenance of every African you ever did see upon the face of the earth, or ever will see.... I tell you, this people that are commonly called negroes are the children of old Cain." (Brigham Young Addresses, Ms d 1234, Box 48, folder 3, located in LDS Church Historical Dept.) On October 9, 1859, he stated:

"Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race—that they should be the 'servant of servants;' and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 290-91.)

Similar doctrine was continued by Young's successors as President of the Church, such as John Taylor, who adopted the theory of W. W. Phelps that Cain's descendants survived the flood via the wife of Ham. In 1881, Taylor stated:

"And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham’s wife, as he had married of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation upon the earth as well as God." (Journal of Discourses 22:304)

Throughout the years, various church leaders and theologians spoke on the curse of Cain doctrine. Some of these writings and sermons are included at Curse of Cain/LDS historical statements. Some of the ideas propounded in these sermons and writings included the following:

1. That Cain would not be allowed to enter God's presence, nor would he enjoy the companionship of any member of the Godhead
2. That Cain would be called Perdition and not be resurrected to a degree of glory; He would lose any chance of exaltation
3. That Cain would not taste of death (become a translated being)
4. That the earth would not "yield unto Cain her strength," (or in other words, he would be agriculturally cursed)
5. That a mark would be placed upon Cain so that others would not try to kill him
6. That this mark was "Black skin and a flat nose".
7. That Cain would have to live as "a vagabond" on the earth until the return of Christ as a translated being
8. That Cain would rule over Satan after the final judgement
9. That any mixing of Blacks with any others, would pass the curse upon any of their descendants.
10. The denial of the priesthood and temple ordinances to Cain and his descendants, those being of Black African descent (except in rare occasions), until after Abel's descendants had a chance to receive the gospel and hold the priesthood. No blessing would be denied these people after the resurrection, but it would be denied in this life.

In 1978, after decades of criticism inside and outside the church, the church announced a revelation officially renouncing its policy of excluding blacks from the priesthood. Although the church never has officially stated that the racial curse of Cain doctrine was false, many top church leaders and influential LDS theologians have essentially conceded that the doctrine was not divine truth. For example, Apostle Bruce R. McConkie stated:

"Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world." ("All Are Alike Unto God", pp. 1-2).

When asked, church spokespeople generally repudiate the curse of Cain doctrine. However, despite urging from a number of black Mormons, there has not yet been an official and explicit church repudiation of the doctrine, or an admission that it was a mistake. In 1998, there was a report in the Los Angeles Times that the church leadership was considering an official repudiation of the curse of Cain and curse of Ham doctrines, to mark the 20th anniversary of the 1978 revelation. (Larry B. Stammer, "Mormons May Disavow Old View on Blacks", L.A. Times, May 18, 1998, p. A1). This, however, was quickly denied by the LDS spokesman Don LeFevre. (ABC News report, May 18, 1998). The Times later suggested that the publicity generated by its article may have caused the church to put an official disavowal on hold. (Stammer, "Mormon Plan to Disavow Racist Teachings Jeopardized by Publicity", L.A. Times, May 24, 1998).

so OTM - (and a lazy sight gag in addition to being an offensive one).

The name given to her character by the white writers of the movie was lafawnduh.

Yes, her character has expertise in sex and dancing.

Yeah I don't think it was the worst, most racist thing of all time, it just made me uncomfortable is all.

This needs to be a retired comedy bit that can never be used ever again. By anybody. Anywhere.

Not because it's usually offensive but because it is OLD. It's funny that David Cross is mentioned here for doing it because I believe it's on the album of his where all the track titles are references to stale comedic ideas.

I just can't believe the screenplay is by the same guy who did CHUCK AND BUCK.

x-post have you seen Chuck & Buck?

Any Mormon whose work reflects questionable tenets of the Mormon church can fuck right off too, which is all I'm sayin.

(tho Ally's question is more fair - the Mormon tenets I'm thinkin of are the emphasis on "clean living" and the institutionalized patronizing attitude towards non-white people a la the Curse of Cain noted above and the whole "Indians are our lost brothers! We must convert them!" hoohah, among others)

xpost there are several other Christian groups and sects that forbid alcohol, caffeine...EVEN ELECTRICITY WTF.

I'm not denying there is a difference between Mormonism and other sects--I mean if there wasn't then there'd be no need for Mormonism to exist--I'm merely saying that the rhetoric on this thread against them is kind of appalling.

haha - whose being ignorant here? There is a single Mormon church, with a power structure and a hierarchy that handles all church "business". There is no central Jewish institution.

-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), May 24th, 2006 7:40 PM. (Shakey Mo Collier)

its a good rule of thumb to always be suspicious of Mormons' motives.

-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), May 25th, 2006 6:08 PM. (Shakey Mo Collier)

No matter how hard some of them try.

My 2 cents.

Also, I am going to use this graphic http://mormonconspiracy.com/images/screwarr.gif anytime I want to demonize some group, because it is too frickin' awesome to leave it to the crazies.

If I was the tour guide, I woulda said, "Up your ass."

Now you are acting a bit like "Cap'n-save-a-Mormon" (just a little).

Oh! No, the thing is, I have a habit of answering ALL questions regarding whereabouts of an object with that. I've learned to control myself but it's like some weird OCD version of Tourette's.

well no, now I'm not sure what the Good Girl reflects or where its weird moralizing tone comes from.

It's one thing to criticize the tenents of a religion, it's another thing to refer to a group of people classed according to common racial, national, tribal, religious, linguistic, or cultural origin or background as creepy (i.e. another creepy Catholic dude).

"Up your ass" is the perfect response to "Where is it"! Read you wrong. Sorry!

"Where's the cat?" "Up your butt!" etc

That's just OCD, dude. NOW who's being racist.

but we aren't talking about Jews, we're talking about how Shakey Mo Collier is a bigot!!!

A: Please explain why an over-rated fat white guy playing a Mexican and playing up Mexican cultural stereotypes is supposed to be funny.
-- Shakey Mo Collier (audiobo...), May 24th, 2006 6:36 PM. (Shakey Mo Collier) (link)

It's not a mind-bender, dude.

http://www.unl.edu/scarlet/v9n3/film.jpg

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a242/PepeAmsterdam/morbius.jpg

It's the same kind of cultural appropriation Jewish comedians have been engaging in for fifty years, what?

Let's all go to Jack Black's house and check for foreskin!

xpost Once you're a Jew, you're a Jew for life.

I still think Charlton Heston is the appropriate answer for every quandry raised on this thread. If only he'd played a Mormon.

1st Every Action done in Company, ought to be with Some Sign of Respect, to those that are Present.

2d When in Company, put not your Hands to any Part of the Body, not usualy Discovered.

3d Shew Nothing to your Freind that may affright him.

4th In the Presence of Others Sing not to yourself with a humming Noise, nor Drum with your Fingers or Feet.

5th If You Cough, Sneeze, Sigh, or Yawn, do it not Loud but Privately; and Speak not in your Yawning, but put Your handkercheif or Hand before your face and turn aside.

6th Sleep not when others Speak, Sit not when others stand, Speak not when you Should hold your Peace, walk not on when others Stop.

7th Put not off your Cloths in the presence of Others, nor go out your Chamber half Drest.

8th At Play and at Fire its Good manners to Give Place to the last Commer, and affect not to Speak Louder than Ordinary.

9th Spit not in the Fire, nor Stoop low before it neither Put your Hands into the Flames to warm them, nor Set your Feet upon the Fire especially if there be meat before it.

10th When you Sit down, Keep your Feet firm and Even, without putting one on the other or Crossing them.

11th Shift not yourself in the Sight of others nor Gnaw your nails.

12th Shake not the head, Feet, or Legs rowl not the Eys lift not one eyebrow higher than the other wry not the mouth, and bedew no mans face with your Spittle, by approaching too near him when you Speak.

Painting detail, "Highlife Below Stairs" 1763, by John Collet, CWF acc. no. G1991-175 13th Kill no Vermin as Fleas, lice ticks &c in the Sight of Others, if you See any filth or thick Spittle put your foot Dexteriously upon it if it be upon the Cloths of your Companions, Put it off privately, and if it be upon your own Cloths return Thanks to him who puts it off.

14th Turn not your Back to others especially in Speaking, Jog not the Table or Desk on which Another reads or writes, lean not upon any one.

15th Keep your Nails clean and Short, also your Hands and Teeth Clean yet without Shewing any great Concern for them.

16th Do not Puff up the Cheeks, Loll not out the tongue rub the Hands, or beard, thrust out the lips, or bite them or keep the Lips too open or too Close.

17th Be no Flatterer, neither Play with any that delights not to be Play'd Withal.

18th Read no Letters, Books, or Papers in Company but when there is a Necessity for the doing of it you must ask leave: come not near the Books or Writings of Another so as to read them unless desired or give your opinion of them unask'd also look not nigh when another is writing a Letter.

Print of a lady as "July," CWF acc. no. 1988-291,7 19th let your Countenance be pleasant but in Serious Matters Somewhat grave.

20th The Gestures of the Body must be Suited to the discourse you are upon.

21st: Reproach none for the Infirmaties of Nature, nor Delight to Put them that have in mind thereof.

22d Shew not yourself glad at the Misfortune of another though he were your enemy.

23d When you see a Crime punished, you may be inwardly Pleased; but always shew Pity to the Suffering Offender.

24th Do not laugh too loud or too much at any Publick Spectacle.

25th Superfluous Complements and all Affectation of Ceremonie are to be avoided, yet where due they are not to be Neglected.

26th In Pulling off your Hat to Persons of Distinction, as Noblemen, Justices, Churchmen &c make a Reverence, bowing more or less according to the Custom of the Better Bred, and Quality of the Person. Amongst your equals expect not always that they Should begin with you first, but to Pull off the Hat when there is no need is Affectation, in the Manner of Saluting and resaluting in words keep to the most usual Custom.

27th Tis ill manners to bid one more eminent than yourself be covered as well as not to do it to whom it's due Likewise he that makes too much haste to Put on his hat does not well, yet he ought to Put it on at the first, or at most the Second time of being ask'd; now what is herein Spoken, of Qualification in behaviour in Saluting, ought also to be observed in taking of Place, and Sitting down for ceremonies without Bounds is troublesome.

28th If any one come to Speak to you while you are are Sitting Stand up tho he be your Inferiour, and when you Present Seats let it be to every one according to his Degree.

29th When you meet with one of Greater Quality than yourself, Stop, and retire especially if it be at a Door or any Straight place to give way for him to Pass.

30th In walking the highest Place in most Countrys Seems to be on the right hand therefore Place yourself on the left of him whom you desire to Honour: but if three walk together the middest Place is the most Honourable the wall is usually given to the most worthy if two walk together.

31st If any one far Surpassess others, either in age, Estate, or Merit yet would give Place to a meaner than himself in his own lodging or elsewhere the one ought not to except it, So he on the other part should not use much earnestness nor offer it above once or twice.

32d: To one that is your equal, or not much inferior you are to give the cheif Place in your Lodging and he to who 'tis offered ought at the first to refuse it but at the Second to accept though not without acknowledging his own unworthiness.

33d They that are in Dignity or in office have in all places Preceedency but whilst they are Young they ought to respect those that are their equals in Birth or other Qualitys, though they have no Publick charge.

34th It is good Manners to prefer them to whom we Speak before ourselves especially if they be above us with whom in no Sort we ought to begin.

35th Let your Discourse with Men of Business be Short and Comprehensive.

36th Artificers & Persons of low Degree ought not to use many ceremonies to Lords, or Others of high Degree but Respect and highly Honour them, and those of high Degree ought to treat them with affibility & Courtesie, without Arrogancy.

37th In Speaking to men of Quality do not lean nor Look them full in the Face, nor approach too near them at lest Keep a full Pace from them.

38th In visiting the Sick, do not Presently play the Physicion if you be not Knowing therein.

39th In writing or Speaking, give to every Person his due Title According to his Degree & the Custom of the Place.

40th Strive not with your Superiers in argument, but always Submit your Judgment to others with Modesty.

41st Undertake not to Teach your equal in the art himself Proffesses; it Savours of arrogancy.

Print "Keep within Compass and You Shall Be Sure to Avoid Many Troubles which Others Endure," CWF acc. no. 1958-629,2 42d Let thy ceremonies in Courtesie be proper to the Dignity of his place with whom thou conversest for it is absurd to act the same with a Clown and a Prince.

43d Do not express Joy before one sick or in pain for that contrary Passion will aggravate his Misery.

44th When a man does all he can though it Succeeds not well blame not him that did it.

45th Being to advise or reprehend any one, consider whether it ought to be in publick or in Private; presently, or at Some other time in what terms to do it & in reproving Shew no Sign of Cholar but do it with all Sweetness and Mildness.

46th Take all Admonitions thankfully in what Time or Place Soever given but afterwards not being culpable take a Time & Place convenient to let him him know it that gave them.

47th Mock not nor Jest at any thing of Importance break no Jest that are Sharp Biting and if you Deliver any thing witty and Pleasent abstain from Laughing there at yourself.

48th Wherein wherein you reprove Another be unblameable yourself; for example is more prevalent than Precepts.

Print "All Fours," men playing cards, CWF acc. no. 1996-91 49th Use no Reproachfull Language against any one neither Curse nor Revile.

50th Be not hasty to beleive flying Reports to the Disparagement of any.

51st Wear not your Cloths, foul, unript or Dusty but See they be Brush'd once every day at least and take heed that you approach not to any Uncleaness.

52d In your Apparel be Modest and endeavour to accomodate Nature, rather than to procure Admiration keep to the Fashion of your equals Such as are Civil and orderly with respect to Times and Places.

53d Run not in the Streets, neither go too slowly nor with Mouth open go not Shaking yr Arms kick not the earth with yr feet, go not upon the Toes, nor in a Dancing fashion.

54th Play not the Peacock, looking every where about you, to See if you be well Deck't, if your Shoes fit well if your Stokings sit neatly, and Cloths handsomely.

55th Eat not in the Streets, nor in the House, out of Season.

56th Associate yourself with Men of good Quality if you Esteem your own Reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad Company.

57th In walking up and Down in a House, only with One in Company if he be Greater than yourself, at the first give him the Right hand and Stop not till he does and be not the first that turns, and when you do turn let it be with your face towards him, if he be a Man of Great Quality, walk not with him Cheek by Joul but Somewhat behind him; but yet in Such a Manner that he may easily Speak to you.

teapot inscribed "Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace," CWF acc. no. 1995-27 58th Let your Conversation be without Malice or Envy, for 'tis a Sign of a Tractable and Commendable Nature: And in all Causes of Passion admit Reason to Govern.

59th Never express anything unbecoming, nor Act agst the Rules Moral before your inferiours.

60th Be not immodest in urging your Freinds to Discover a Secret.

61st Utter not base and frivilous things amongst grave and Learn'd Men nor very Difficult Questians or Subjects, among the Ignorant or things hard to be believed, Stuff not your Discourse with Sentences amongst your Betters nor Equals.

62d Speak not of doleful Things in a Time of Mirth or at the Table; Speak not of Melancholy Things as Death and Wounds, and if others Mention them Change if you can the Discourse tell not your Dreams, but to your intimate Friend.

63d A Man ought not to value himself of his Atchievements, or rare Qualities of wit; much less of his riches Virtue or Kindred.

64th Break not a Jest where none take pleasure in mirth Laugh not aloud, nor at all without Occasion, deride no mans Misfortune, tho' there Seem to be Some cause.

65th Speak not injurious Words neither in Jest nor Earnest Scoff at none although they give Occasion.

66th Be not forward but friendly and Courteous; the first to Salute hear and answer & be not Pensive when it's a time to Converse.

67th Detract not from others neither be excessive in Commanding.

68th Go not thither, where you know not, whether you Shall be Welcome or not. Give not Advice without being Ask'd & when desired do it briefly.

69th If two contend together take not the part of either unconstrained; and be not obstinate in your own Opinion, in Things indiferent be of the Major Side.

70th Reprehend not the imperfections of others for that belongs to Parents Masters and Superiours.

Painting detail, "Highlife Below Stairs," 1763, byJohn Collet, CWF acc. no. G1991-175 71st Gaze not on the marks or blemishes of Others and ask not how they came. What you may Speak in Secret to your Friend deliver not before others.

72d Speak not in an unknown Tongue in Company but in your own Language and that as those of Quality do and not as the Vulgar; Sublime matters treat Seriously.

73d Think before you Speak pronounce not imperfectly nor bring out your Words too hastily but orderly & distinctly.

74th When Another Speaks be attentive your Self and disturb not the Audience if any hesitate in his Words help him not nor Prompt him without desired, Interrupt him not, nor Answer him till his Speech be ended.

75th In the midst of Discourse ask not of what one treateth but if you Perceive any Stop because of your coming you may well intreat him gently to Proceed: If a Person of Quality comes in while your Conversing it's handsome to Repeat what was said before.

76th While you are talking, Point not with your Finger at him of Whom you Discourse nor Approach too near him to whom you talk especially to his face.

77th Treat with men at fit Times about Business & Whisper not in the Company of Others.

78th Make no Comparisons and if any of the Company be Commended for any brave act of Vertue, commend not another for the Same.

79th Be not apt to relate News if you know not the truth thereof. In Discoursing of things you Have heard Name not your Author always A Secret Discover not.

80th Be not Tedious in Discourse or in reading unless you find the Company pleased therewith.

81st Be not Curious to Know the Affairs of Others neither approach those that Speak in Private.

82d undertake not what you cannot perform but be carefull to keep your promise.

83d when you deliver a matter do it without passion & with discretion, however mean the person be you do it too.

84th When your Superiours talk to any Body hearken not neither Speak nor Laugh.

85th In Company of these of Higher Quality than yourself Speak not til you are ask'd a Question then Stand upright put of your Hat & Answer in few words.

86th In Disputes, be not So Desireous to Overcome as not to give Liberty to each one to deliver his Opinion and Submit to the Judgment of the Major Part especially if they are Judges of the Dispute.

Portrait of Thomas Bolling, c.1773, possibly by Matthew Pratt, CWF acc. no. G1995-99 87th Let thy carriage be such as becomes a Man Grave Settled and attentive to that which is spoken. Contradict not at every turn what others Say.

88th Be not tedious in Discourse, make not many Digressigns, nor repeat often the Same manner of Discourse.

89th Speak not Evil of the absent for it is unjust.

90th Being Set at meat Scratch not neither Spit Cough or blow your Nose except there's a Necessity for it.

91st Make no Shew of taking great Delight in your Victuals, Feed not with Greediness; cut your Bread with a Knife, lean not on the Table neither find fault with what you Eat.

92d Take no Salt or cut Bread with your Knife Greasy.

93d Entertaining any one at table it is decent to present him wt. meat, Undertake not to help others undesired by the Master.

94th If you Soak bread in the Sauce let it be no more than what you put in your Mouth at a time and blow not your broth at Table but Stay till Cools of it Self.

95th Put not your meat to your Mouth with your Knife in your hand neither Spit forth the Stones of any fruit Pye upon a Dish nor Cast anything under the table.

96th It's unbecoming to Stoop much to ones Meat Keep your Fingers clean & when foul wipe them on a Corner of your Table Napkin.

97th Put not another bit into your Mouth til the former be Swallowed let not your Morsels be too big for the Gowls.

Print, "The Dinner," CWF acc. no. 1954-698 98th Drink not nor talk with your mouth full neither Gaze about you while you are a Drinking.

99th Drink not too leisurely nor yet too hastily. Before and after Drinking wipe your Lips breath not then or Ever with too Great a Noise, for its uncivil.

100th Cleanse not your teeth with the Table Cloth Napkin Fork or Knife but if Others do it let it be done wt. a Pick Tooth.

101st Rince not your Mouth in the Presence of Others.

102d It is out of use to call upon the Company often to Eat nor need you Drink to others every Time you Drink.

103d In Company of your Betters be not longer in eating than they are lay not your Arm but only your hand upon the table.

104th It belongs to the Chiefest in Company to unfold his Napkin and fall to Meat first, But he ought then to Begin in time & to Dispatch with Dexterity that the Slowest may have time allowed him.

105th Be not Angry at Table whatever happens & if you have reason to be so, Shew it not but on a Chearfull Countenance especially if there be Strangers for Good Humour makes one Dish of Meat a Feast.

106th Set not yourself at the upper of the Table but if it Be your Due or that the Master of the house will have it So, Contend not, least you Should Trouble the Company.

107th If others talk at Table be attentive but talk not with Meat in your Mouth.

108th When you Speak of God or his Atributes, let it be Seriously & wt. Reverence. Honour & Obey your Natural Parents altho they be Poor.

109th Let your Recreations be Manfull not Sinfull.

110th Labour to keep alive in your Breast that Little Spark of Celestial fire Called Conscience.

Finis

Well, I'm out.

http://www.workingnet.com/thunderbear/images/heston.jpg

HAS HE EVER PLAYED A MORMONITE THO?

The reason I thought the film was middling was because I didn't feel it was as successful as several other thematically similar films I've seen on expressing the human consequence of violence escalation and revenge in a public setting. If I was judging the film as a geopolitical thriller, I'd give it higher marks actually!

ok we get it! you thought it was OKAY!

End of serious.

to clarify, I don't think the Good Girl is more or less sinister depending on Mike White's religion, just that I had guessed (wrongly) that its moral POV was informed by Mormonism. What I saw as The Good Girl's underlying reactionary conservatism is still there, I just don't know where it comes from (or if I'm misinterpreting it altogether - which is entirely possible, I've only seen it once. It just seemed to relish punishing Jennifer Aniston a bit much, much in the way Lars Von Trier seems to revel in punishing his female protagonists). Filmmakers invest films with their own prejudices and ideologies all the time - trying to figure out where those prejudices and ideologies stem seems completely legitimate to me.

And I already apologized and retracted my statement calling Mike White "another creepy Mormon" - I don't know how many more times I need to say that.

yah you're right. i dont know why i destroy so many great film threads. i should be more productive and use them to pick on ilx posters that annoy me like shakey and morb.

there now it is the perfect ILX thread.

I think the only way his films are informed by Mormon culture is the no sex/no swears bit. He makes goofy-ass comedies about ridiculous people because it's Mormon-safe to joke about, not because Mormons are taught in church about Mexican wrestlers and high school elections and tetherball.

i was really impressed by the soundtrack and stuck through the credits to see if i could get any info. i was really suprized to see most of it was beck. it kind of sounded like tropicalia stuff.

but yeah, i have freinds who were offended by ND, and they'll probably be offended by this (its mostly in english and what little spanish there is is not subtitled) but its goofy and fun. But i can generally chuckle at jack black and though ND was funny.

also, i think its obv that Jared Hess takes way more inspiration from Wes Anderson than Mormon culture.

Point taken. Mormons are corny.

my boss was raised mormon but stopped practicing 10 years ago. when people ask him if he's LDS he says yes, because it means as much culturally as religiously.

What were they offended by?

The scene with the two older, leather-wielding wrestlers confronting him and Esqueleto on the street had me laughing SO hard.

I didn't really get racist overtones so much as "Look - this situation is utterly absurd. It would be absurd if it were here, in South Boston, or Montreal, but Mexico is the only place where we had WRESTLING with MASKS, so that's where we set it."

As for Jack Black - he's really really good when he's not trying to be really really good. Like stop making up songs and getting all "High Fidelity" on us. You played that role six years ago.

(keyth have you ever read yancey's posts or are you sleep-posting again??)

Napoleon Dynamite is just Revenge of the Nerds except without any of the fun parts

I sleep post alot.

i cant wait to see this!!! maybe ill go right now! chakireview: coming soon!

I am going to love this film.

Also, Ebert, dude, nobody, especially a professional writer, should reference Wikipedia as their source for a cultural phenomenon. It's great for what it is, but c'mon, this is Lucha Libre.

but yeah, i have freinds who were offended by ND
What were they offended by?

-- Cunga (visionsofjohann...), June 17th, 2006.

the bad scriptwriting and horrible direction, of course

actually it was the fact that interracial relationships were placed on the same level of funny as tater tots and moon boots.

i know there are 60s songs because i recognized them.

-- grady (goforgrad...), June 19th, 2006 2:42 PM. (grady) (later) (link)

I TOTALLY missed this. Am I racially insensitive? ;_;

do you recall specific artists? because i really liked everything i heard.

OMG 10001110^01100011=11101101!

FIGHTING SPIRIT
The unexpected virtues of Jack Black

By Armond White

Nacho Libre

Directed by Jared Hess

First, notice the color scheme of Nacho Libre. Its hues are vibrant and intense like luminous bible illustrations. In outdoor scenes, characters stand out against the slightly surreal backgrounds as if figures in religious chromos or Catholic prayer cards. Director Jared Hess instantly communicates his beatific view of ordinary things. Whether focusing on homely or misfit people—the demoralized monks who work at a Mexican orphanage, the pudgy yet hungry foundlings, the impoverished townfolk or the hapless, rotund title character played by Jack Black—Hess’ imagery remains unexpectedly radiant.

In Nacho Libre, Hess confirms the strange humanism of his debut film Napoleon Dynamite. This time he extends benevolence to the parable-like story of Nacho, a Mexican friar confined to scullery work in an orphanage, whose yearning and dissatisfaction make him struggle with his vocation and social esteem. Nacho’s crisis is similar to Napoleon Dynamite’s but the Mexican, Jesuitical setting (the first shot is a close-up of a Bible) adds an uncannily plangent quality to Hess’ quirkiness.

Because Hess bathes these characters in light, he suggests that to see them in all their idiosyncrasy is to believe in their humanity. This spiritual generosity is astounding—especially in a movie that stars the rascally Jack Black from a story idea by screenwriter Mike White, who was responsible for the creepy character studies Chuck and Buck and The Good Girl. It’s Hess’ sensibility (he co-wrote the script with his wife Jerusha) and his benevolent eye that make Nacho Libre so appealing.

Although Black’s specialty of aggressive physical comedy dovetails with Hess’ slapstick humanism, a delicate, humorous approach to strangeness needs to prevail. That’s what audiences responded to in Napoleon Dynamite. It was one of the few genuinely popular (unhyped) films of recent years. Still, it lost the New York Film Critics Circle’s Best First Film prize to the fatuous Maria Full of Grace because critics favored secular cynicism over religious optimism. Maria was full of racist condescension while Napoleon embraced cultural difference. All those VOTE FOR PEDRO T-shirts you see teenagers wearing promote Hess’ democractic spirit—winning the ultimate prize.

Nacho Libre applies that same true liberalism to the world of Lucha Libre, Mexico’s highly theatrical wrestling subculture. Nacho disguises himself as a luchadore, in a handmade satiny costume and mask, to win money for the orphanage which has subsisted on a diet of gruel and corn chips donated by a local restaurant. Hess turns this adventure into the sweetest homily: Despite the corn chips gratuity, Nacho must free himself of limitations imposed by others.

When Nacho teams with a homeless man, Esqueleto (Héctor Jiménez), to win the Lucha Libre competition, he becomes infatuated with a novice nun, Sister Encarnación (Ana de la Reguera), who stirs his ego and tests his faith. This trio flips and reworks Don Quixote, yet the film’s rousing theme song “Hombre Religioso” (“I am, I am/A real religious man”) sets a devotional comic tone. The pastoral landscapes where Nacho and Esqueleto practice their wrestling moves recall Rossellini (The Flowers of St. Francis) and DeSica (Miracle in Milan) while the hostile, sardonic Lucha Libre confrontations evoke Buñuel (Nazarín). Hess’ counterpoint of saintly and worldly experience is not new; it’s just rare in American pop culture. When Sister Encarnación warns that luchadores fight for vanity and power, that they are “false idols,” it comments on Hollywood’s routine hero-worship. Hess and Black find something deeper.

In the hateful School of Rock, Black played a childish egotist but Nacho’s sense of devotion makes a rich, funny characterization, based in genuine complexity: “My mother was a Lutheran missionary from Scandanavia, my father was a deacon from Mexico. They tried to convert each other. They got married instead, and then they died.” No recent movie figure has a richer character précis. Thus, Nacho—an orphan who claims his legacy—acts from principle and obligation, uncommon virtues. In his luchadore’s mask, Black suggests Brando’s full-lipped self-questioning; his eyes beam from determination and inner stress. Hess recognizes these basic traits and provides a benedictory close-up that shows Nacho’s saintly ache for love. This pellucid image affirms: Hess is not just one of the American Eccentrics. He’s one of our best.

Armond White is a fucking moron.

Jeezus.

And to think, over in that ILG thread, we were wondering how long it would take them to come up with gamecrit, or a New Games Language, if you will. I wonder if it will be similarly entertaining.

too late:

http://www.itvmovieclub.com/itv/images/products/9/42659-large.jpg

*in this case, the Spirit of Vengeance incarnated as a flaming black leather totenkopf on a flaming motorcycle. No one know if Cage was ever successful at his quest.

I've reevaluated this. Ok this is the best movie ever made. Seriously. Even better than Zoolander. GET THAT CORN OUT OF MY FACE.

Okay chaki you can never criticize my taste again.

SUMMON YOUR EAGLE POWERS, ABBOT.

GET THAT CORN OUT OF MY FACE!!!!!

still loving this movie SO MUCH.

DVD is at home waiting to be watched.

It really does get better upon repeated viewings. Its kind of amazing!

I hate all the orphans in all of the world.

Why is there a bus in Chicago still covered with giant Nacho Libre ads?

That's some kind of ghost bus. Don't get on it unless you are prepared for some Jacob's Ladder stuff.

Unless it's advertising the DVD.

the dvd came out like 20 years ago

They're advertising the 20th Anniversary Sgt. Pepper's Deluxe Edition?

Naw, ghost bus is a more likely scenario.

the girl in the movie is hawt

I like Choncho.

All those VOTE FOR PEDRO T-shirts you see teenagers wearing promote Hess’ democractic spirit—winning the ultimate prize.

not sure about NL, but the way ND treats non-white ppl bothers me in the same way that i get bothered when some suburban church lady tries to talk in "ebonics". it seems painfully obvious that the writers learned about minorities from TV.

still... ND makes me laugh. i may rent this at some point.

the Hess’ obviously grew up around Mexicans.

hug hug, kiss kiss, hug hug, big kiss, little hug, kiss kiss, little kiss.

LOOLOLOL

the girl in the movie is hawt

― carne asada, Friday, January 11, 2008 5:33 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark

cosign. Totally beautiful. And they didn't have to throw in the gratuitous scene with her in slutty clothes to show it.

I just saw this for the first time. It's beautifully shot and the sense of humor has a nice range to it. It feels like there is a nice balance. It's a total genre film that takes on a whole bunch of cliches without being boring. The music is wonderful, the cast is great. All the posts above worrying about whether it is racially insensitive or not must be from people who have not seen this movie. It's a well made, very sweet, big-hearted movie with some Jack Black slapstick comedy and nice messages thrown in for good measure. Would be awesome for little kids and their parents as well.

"When you are a man, sometimes you wear stretchy pants in your room. It's for fun."

I liked this movie OK but you have to admit it's at least a little boring.

Yes it is a little boring. I was luckily kind of distracted at the time tho. Still, it's not as bad as all the reviews make it out to be.