White Men Who Exclusively Date Asian Women

But Felicity, you're agreeing with me! The question was: "what do we think of people whose dating habits are based on race classifications" and I all along argued "that's depersonalizing." It's not like anyone injected racialized thinking into the thread: it's the whole topic of the thing, based on that nagging "exclusively" that everyone wants to ignore.

However, there are also several other meta-levels and meta-directions of the discussion that have been raised but not developed that much because we're still making sure we all agree on level 1. The issue is not that people are not reading the thread or understanding the primary argument but that some people (I'll speak for myself here) have been beat over the head with the same argument, in exactly the same form -- using the same hackneyed premises and meta-stereotypes -- for so long that the biases and premises underlying the "good" side of the argument begin to become irritating as well. To put it bluntly, at level 2 of the discussion, people who overly concern themselves with WMWEDAW can at times be almost as annoying as the WMWEDAW themselves, and for similar reasons. Here are some of my theories why.

1. Yes, there are Asian woman fetishes and negative Asian woman stereotypes. But having these types of debates tends to focus attention on a particular East Asian woman stereotype to the exclusion of other stereotypes. People rarely seem to say "He has a thing for Asian girls because they are grasping and cunning and fixated on career achievement" or "He has a thing for Asian girls because they are materialistic and superficial and abnormally acquisitive of Louis Vuitton luxury goods" or "He has a thing for Asian girls, what with those saris and those caste marks and that spicy curry rowr" -- it always seems to be the same quailing, lotus- blossum stereotype that is trotted out for criticism. So the overwhelming consistency of the example stereotype reinforces the overall tendency to make racial generalizations and does more harm than good, notwithstanding the well-meaning intention to denounce people projecting the stereotype onto their date-ees. It's like repeating the racist joke in the memo saying "Mr. X was recently terminated from his job in this company for telling the following inappropriate joke: [racist joke]."

2. Perhaps I am imagining it, but there is an idea that I'm having trouble forming and expressing that goes generally like this: there is either a disproportionate amount of concern about WMWEDAW or that it somehow seems more acceptable for people to dissect the WMWEDAW phenomenon than it would be for people to dissect the phenomenon of of [whatever race][whatever gender]WED[non-Asian female-whatever]. I think the reason I'm having this idea has to do with the stereotype (to which Joy alluded) of Asian women as unable to choose, think or fend for themselves against the rapacious, non-Asian man, as well as exploiting the general Asian "model minority" stereotype of not making trouble, don't rock the boat, etc. I know that people would say they hold the same views with respect to men "preying" on other racial classifications of women, but they DON'T. Perhaps I would feel better if I saw some alternate threads for the other racial fetishes and that everyone contributed their strong viewpoints on those race phenomena as well. Perhaps I wouldn't. Like I said, perhaps I am imagining it.

3. The decision to define a category as [X] (in this case "Asian") and then to keep harping on a person's membership in category [X], even in a well-meaning way, is depersonalizing. For some reason it seems that the continent-of- origin level of classification is the only thing that is troubling. For example, I seem to be getting the idea that there is something equally sinister about (a) a man who dates a 1st-generation Vietnamese woman, a second-generation Korean-American woman, a Laotian refugee, and a Japanese surfer girl (since there seems to have been an unstated premise that on this thread Asian = East Asian) and (b) a man who dates a series of four Cantonese Chinese women named Emily with size-2 feet because in both (a) and (b) the man is ED"A"W. I think it might be interesting to question why this particular classification has been chosen. For example, Korean and Japanese people don't always exactly get along -- why does it make sense to talk about them in the same dating profile? If we want to talk about dating the phenotype, fine, let's talk about that, but the "Asian" label is kind of frustrating.

4. I think you can get on thin ice in general when forming generalizations based on your own, individualized experiences and then projecting the attendant conclusion-theories onto others (<== like there, see?). Nitsuh (and Dan, since you also seem to have something to say), feel free to contribute your own (what? "inter-racial"? -ugh) dating experiences and thoughts, and see where there are differences and commonalities among us. It's easier to see people as individuals that way, which is what I like best about ILE. However, please do not presume that your experience/views on racial calssifications = mine = my parents (I shuddered when I read "in extreme cases marriage" on that January 30 post).

Besides that, I would like to point out that I actually quite like Balthus.

That said, I do see your complaints, only I on some level want to dodge them here, insofar as it wasn't me who introduced the topic or even started off trying to frame it in a certain sense -- or even limited it to Asian women, insofar as my first post on this thread was intended to point out how much I dislike the same phenomenon when it's directed at black males. In which situation I'd still take all of your points above and yet still make the same sorts of arguments that I've been making on this thread.

I can see how (1) functions -- e.g. in the case of Fritz's friends making "yellow fever" cracks, most likely jumping to that stereotype in the absence of any evidence to support it, thereby promoting the stereotypes themselves -- but I don't think that's nearly the same thing as pointing out that a great deal of let's say Americans with race-based dating criteria (whether directed at Asian women or black men or Latinos / Latinas or anyone else) really are working off of a dominant stereotype, and even the one that's least realistic, so far as current possible Asian-woman stereotypes go. I don't see how pointing this out in any sense reinforces it, so long as one isn't automatically jumping to the conclusion that that's the case whenever one sees a white man and an Asian woman together. By the same token, I'd be annoyed if anyone looked at me with a white date and immediately assumed that I must have a huge dick and treat her terribly. (The former would be slightly less annoying, but still.)

As for (2), like I said, my first post was to make an equivalent comparison with the races changed and the gender reversed. Also (a) I don't think of myself as terribly concerned with this phenomenon -- to be honest, I don't believe I'd ever given it much thought before this thread -- plus (b) my image in this scenario is actually of a whole lot of Asian women getting constantly bothered by stereotype- seeking white men, and either figuring out that hidden motivation down the line or seeing it straight-off and telling the guy to get lost.

As for (3), that again was my whole argument from above: that a great number of the white men who exclusively date (East) Asian women make absolutely no distinctions between the various bits of that entire section of the continent, which is part of the reason I repeatedly told Momus (whose attraction is a specifically cultural one with Japan) that the segment of the WMWEDAW contingent I was criticizing had little-to-nothing to do with him. In that sense the "frustrating classification" is a creation of a particular and not-insignificant subgroup of the WMWEDAW group -- and you cannot tell me there aren't plenty of guys out there whose "exclusive" attraction to East Asian women extends without distinction from Japan through Thailand.

The reason I've said "I think we all agree" above is that no one is really disputing that there is this "bad" type of stereotype-driven fetishistic race-based dating, and apart from that there are loads upon loads of people having perfectly lovely relationships with people of other races, and also perfectly-fine cultural inclinations or aesthetic whatevers to particular other races (I can't claim to have ever had a relationship that wasn't in the second category). Where the disagreement begins is around (a) what the proportions are of the former to the latter, and (b) how useful or helpful it is to point up the "bad" side of the former. I keep coming back to this thread because I want to make absolutely clear how little I like the idea of people tending to assume that all interracial dating revolves around the fetishes and the stereotypes -- if there's any point of view mentioned in this thread that annoys me most, it's that of those who would make "yellow fever" comments to Fritz for dating an Asian woman (or, like I said, anyone who would make "jungle fever" comments about my girlfriend). And no, I don't think it's helpful to go around being skeptical of people simply for often dating people of a particular other race, which is just a lite version of what I'm complaining about in the previous sentence. The only reason I've taken the stance I have here is the word "exclusively" in the thread title, which points to a guy who programmatically seeks Asian women to date -- despite all of the vast variation in that incredibly huge group. If we consider this in an American sense, or a Western-metropolitan sense, we have to conclude that such a person is either (a) stereotyping to somehow connect Chinese immigrants with fourth-generation Japanese girls, or (b) working with phenotypic aesthetics, which is not ethically reprehensible but still incredibly shallow.

As for how we'd relate this to other genders and races, in the US the main proponents of dating "exclusively" based on race tend to be white racists, don't they? ("You will exclusively date other white people.") And so at root what I'm arguing with here is the idea that in a place like the US race, of all things -- especially in as broad a sense as "Asian" -- should be anything near a primary "exclusive" factor in who a person dates. And that's really all I'm saying: not that we should be overly suspicious of everyone's reasons for dating who they do, not that we should always assume certain stereotypes are always in operation, not that we should create some new stereotype around white men dating Asian women, not that the WMWEDAW phenomenon deserves a lot of negative attention either way. Just that basing dating on race to the point of "exclusion" is dud, dud, dud.

p.s. Nitsuh, you owe me a call -- I have free Cubs tickets for the rest of the week. And damn, you can type fast.

― felicity, Tuesday, 23 July 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

By the way, I just tried to IM you and then you disappeared. I was going to tell you that I've finally cleaned up around here, including music-organization, so now you can come borrow stuff from me to accompany you through the more studious bits of the next week.

Why is "working with phenotypic aesthetics" incredibly shallow? Isn't that just code for "having physical preferences and acting on them"? A sizeable proportion of the population has a single, physical "ur-type" in their sexual subconscious, one that creates a more consistently powerful response in them than any other. If they know that's what they find most satisfying, I have a hard time thinking ill of them for pursuing it just because their ur-type takes shape along ethnic/racial lines. It may seem silly or narrow of them to focus so single-mindedly on a particular type, but I can't see it as impeachable, particularly if they've explored the alternatives and found them less satisfying. Romantic relationships are, after all, interactions of body and soul, and even the best-intentioned one will founder if it's not predicated on mutual attraction on both fronts. If we acknowledge that it's possible to have phenotypic preferences that aren't predicated on cultural stereotyping, and if we're going to criticize Caucasian men who know the Asian female phenotype is what they want -- or Caucasian women who feel the same way about the African/African-American male phenotype, or vice versa -- then how is that different from criticizing people for exclusively pursuing people with luminous eyes, or small breasts, or hairy chests, or whatever? Why shouldn't people pursue what turns them on the most, assuming they're capable of being turned on in a way that acknowledges their partner's humanity?

in the US the main proponents of dating "exclusively" based on race tend to be white racists, don't they?

I'd be far more inclined to give that mantle to first-generation immigrants. Certainly a very high proportion of people I've known, especially women, whose parents emigrated from China/Japan/Korea/etc. have come under pressure from their parents to exclusively date people from said country. Granted, that's partly a cultural issue, but still -- how is that particularly different from Caucasian families wanting their kids to marry Caucasians? Or African-Americans who want their children to exclusively be involved with African-Americans -- and would rather see them involved with an African immigrant than a Caucasian Jew?

Of course this depends on how successful you are with the opposite sex: I suppose you could be so outrageously desirable and have so many lovely dating options that you can be that way about visual ideals.

I can remember Momus being in a tabloid. A big centre-pages spread in lamentable Scottish paper the Daily Record a few years ago. I can't remember the details exactly, but the story/interview was connected to his marriage (to an asian woman), rather than about music. I found it odd to see Momus in the Daily Record then, when I was only vaguely aware of his work. After reading some of his messages here (on this site, I mean, rather than this thread), I find it odder still.

only bits of it....
and many russians would disagree (hoping to ignore siberia as just this...thing, y'know)

and momus goes to colonsay! its a very nice island. did you stay in the hotel momus?

I don't share your feeling that such preferences are "slightly disagreeable." Furthermore, I think I'd be happy if someone was sexually attracted to me based on fairly superficial aspects of my appearance over which I have no real control. I actually think it would be nice to be appreciated on that level. Of course, I admit that after a time, if a relationship developed, I would hope that the person would come around to seeing more of who I am.

I feel a bit defensive on this topic since though I am not attracted rigidly to one type, I do have my types, and over time I will go through certain phases. At one time I was particularly attracted to Asian women (though not nearly as successful in the pursuit as Momus apparently has been), primarily, I think, for aesthetic reasons. (For what it's worth: no, I was definitely not looking for some ultra-submissive geisha fantasy.) Since then, I have become rather taken with Latinas and Russian women and Indians (not the sort of Asian I was particularly attracted to previously). I have a long-standing very strong preference for brown-eyed brunettes.

Honestly, I am made a little uncomfortable by the fact that I have never really been attracted to black women (or at any rate women I perceive as black--as chance would have it, I am currently dating someone who considers herself black, though I didn't see her that way when I met her). (I have to further qualify this by saying that some North African women have been an exception, including Ethiopians. lol.) Is it just a coincidence that the one race whose females don't appeal to me happens to be the one which has traditionally been perceived in the worst light by white Americans? Probably not. At the same time, I don't think that such preferences operate at a level where they can easily be modified. I think my preference in this case is probably shaped by racist or prejudiced currents in my society, but I don't see it as something I really need to correct. Black women can surely get by without me. If it is racism, it is racism on a fairly unconscious level. As I said, I now know that the person I just started to date is black. If I had some sort of conscious racist ideology, I would presumably stop dating her at this point. (Ironically, I have been somewhat worried that she does not fit my brown-eyed, dark-haired preference.)

Scottish Lips

Because I have Scottish lips
You think you can tell me you love me
Because I have Scottish lips
You are listening hard to your glands
Because I have Scottish lips
You are dancing a fling in your knickers
Your love for my Scottish lips
Knows no bounds
It's the love that is known
The love that is known to baboons

Don't love me for my Scottish lips
But my truffles and my baklava
Grilled eggplant, delicious mint salsa
Love me for my cooking!
Don't be stupid, I'm joking
I'm only joking

Get lost if you tell me you love me
When it's all for my Scottish lips
Why don't you tell me you love me for stuff
That's a bit more important than this
Tell me you love me in spirit
Tell me you love me in soul
Or you love me in mind
Even if it's a lie
And when I reply
Look me deep in the eye
Or at least try to look the other way

Just make sure your gaze never slips
Down to my Scottish lips

(It's starting to catch up to me a little too, but oddly enough I now seem to be more attractive to women than I was a couple years ago when I was 20 lb. lighter.)

(What is a "woman pindick" [and can we eat it]?)

-- Momus (nic...), January 31st, 2002.

what bollocks of generalization, as most people who know real japanese people, as opposed to art sceney japanese, will know. i have a japanese woman friend who is a huge soccer fan (much to my initial surprise, almost horror) to the point where she went to most of Euro 2004 and wrote about the matches for a japanese sports paper. and she's not pretty, demure, cute, sweet, just a nice person

Rockist!

i know its not the post title and i might have missed out a whole load of comments (this thread is very very long - clearly WMWDAW is a burning topic in the hearts of many) but this post doesnt have enough discussion about what the asian girls in these relationships think about all this.

Are they allowed opinions?

"this post doesnt have enough discussion about what the asian girls in these relationships think about all this"

true

this thread, on the other hand, could be a whole different kettle of fish

more asian babes on ile plz

i find asian girls typically hugely attractive. but i haven't dated any :(

Does this make me a bastard or not?

A cowardly bastard maybe

asian girls typically support martin jol

"Does this make me a bastard or not?"

no, it makes you a likely peruser of asian porn.

"this thread, on the other hand, could be a whole different kettle of fish"

im surprised there is no 'Asian Women Who Exclusively Date White Men' thread.

"Are they allowed opinions?"

theyre not allowed to answer that.

"managers exclusively supported by asian women"

you people are revolting

Got out the wrong side of the bed this morning?

"you people are revolting"

men, or asians?

"you people are revolting"

who? i dont think i said anything revolting.

in you're interested in this topic you could try reading the thread, which is a good one, rather than cracking jokes about how asian girls are all meek and subservient

Jawohl

I could ask a few friends/our employee. She's Japanese, like some of my friends, who are married to caucasians. Actually, I take that back, the majority of these couples are already divorced. Our employee is the only one of two couples I know that are still together, the rest is divorced/seperated.

hey! i didnt crack any jokes about that. my first comment was that i genuinely thought there was something missing from this thread as there didnt seem to be much from the POV of the asian girls in these relationships (maybe i just missed it? but then, thats not what the post title was about, although as they are part of the relationships i thought there should be something from their perspective). i did say "theyre not allowed to answer that" but i meant that sarcastically.

if you didn't mean it sarcastically it wouldn't be a "joke"

in all fairness you people are revolting is a good bet for pretty much any thread around here

I think "you people are sarcastic" would have been kinder

well FWIW, as an asian man, albeit of south asian descent (hooray for race-outing on the net!), rather than north (although south asian women do tend to be viewed in a similarly demure/subservient etc way), ill just say that is *not* what i think at all (that asian women are all meek and subservient). and i dont see how one pithy sarcastic comment means that that IS what i think.

i was just being sarcastic

Is the Indian subcontinent really South Asian?

yes it IS really south asian. why wouldnt it be?

yah

Is the Momus on this thread the same as the Momus who was some sort of popstar in the eighties?

lol

I suppose it is, Indonesia is South Asian, Japan and China aren't really "North Asian" but you can't say Central Asian because of, errrrrrrrrr, Central Asia

"I could ask a few friends/our employee."

do a census.

lol

Is that a no then?

south asia refers to the indian subcontinent and surrounding islands

THAT IS TEH MOMUS

"in you're interested in this topic you could try reading the thread, which is a good one, rather than cracking jokes about how asian girls are all meek and subservient"

ok, people are attracted to other people, sometimes to very specific types of other people. apparently, other people are allowed to have a problem with this (for reasons that are frankly quite unclear to me), and post about it. but nobody is allowed to make joeks IS TAHT CLEAR?

"I suppose it is, Indonesia is South Asian, Japan and China aren't really "North Asian" but you can't say Central Asian because of, errrrrrrrrr, Central Asia"

well just look on a map. its pretty obvious that india and pakistan are south asia. you could maybe call china east asia.

well not 'you could maybe call china east asia', you DO call china east asia!

more jokes please. come on, it's the weekend!

It's confused 'cos British people generally mean India/Pakistan when they say "Asian"

in the US, asian means south asia, ie the indian subcontinent. in the US, asian means east asia, ie china, japan, korea, etc.

i thought everyone knew this. or are you just trying to get a rise?

<i>im surprised there is no 'Asian Women Who Exclusively Date White Men' thread.</i>

serious albeit anecdotal answer: my best friend has this stance because she thinks asian guys are too traditional and won't put up with her outspoken feminism. of course, she also is really disgusted by white men who fetishize asian women for the same reasons. (also, apparently the ones who are cowardly in person about admitting it come out in force on facebook).

well not 'you could maybe call china east asia', you DO call china east asia!

The Far East or Far Eastern!

i suppose my more general point being that in the groups "white men who exclusively date asian women," and "asian women who exclusively date white men," the men and women are not the same set. you're looking for opinions from "asian women who exclusively date white men who exclusively date asian women." (xpost)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia

Iran!

why not a thread on white men who exclusively date women, and their reasons for doing so?

The United Nations further includes Iran as part of Southern Asia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Asia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeast_Asia

East Asia and Eastern Asia (the latter form preferred by the United Nations) are both more modern terms for the traditional European name the Far East

Which is why, being European, the Far East is more common

"why not a thread on white men who exclusively date women, and their reasons for doing so?"

yes, all discussion of race should be nixed wherever possible!

'far east' sounds very old school and antiquated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Men_Who_Exclusively_Date_Asian_Women

Yet Middle East isn't! (xp)

did they ever say 'the far west' in 'the far east'. 'up west' would've been better ala eastenders.

tom d, please go away.

No

tom d is from the far north

"yes, all discussion of race should be nixed wherever possible!

not my point at all. as well have a thread about black men who exclusively date women, if you like.

or white men who exclusively date black men, if you wanna mix it. i can't see the relevance, nor why it's an issue for other people, let alone a 400 post thread that apparently is too serious to make anything other than po-faced sub-psych 101 comment on.

I actually asked a friend of mine about this a while back. She said she would not want to date a white guy who exclusively dates asian women, and she thinks it's kind of racist to say you prefer one race. So there's one asian woman's opinion for you.

black men who exclusively date women, if you like.

I'm immediately regretting posting that.

It's confused 'cos British people generally mean India/Pakistan when they say "Asian"

-- Tom D., Friday, August 31, 2007 1:59 PM (58 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

apparently this is a result of civil service designation of immigrants (into africa rather than the uk) in the 40s and 50s.

the stereotype referred to in this thread is, i think, asian in the american sense, coz iirc this was a 'zing momus' thread.

the stereotype referred to in this thread is, i think, asian in the american sense, coz iirc this was a 'zing momus' thread.

I am aware of this!

i'm not even sure these mythical 'won't date outside of a particular race' people exist.

um, except where it's their own race, on reflection. i'm aware there are plenty of those.

My husband is English so in the past year and a half we've dealt with a lot of immigration issues that led me to a message board about Americans who were marrying non US citizens. There were tons of many creepy men on there who had met their fiances on websites that were pretty much mail order bride type things. Some even posted about how Asian women were better because they knew how to listen and serve a man and they kept themselves in better shape than American women. Many (not all, of cof them did exclusively date or at least seek out Asian women for these reasons. It was pretty much disgusting.

kinda more of a 'pervs on internet who import asian women' thread then, really?

the amount of American women i know married to English men is totally disproportionate to the number of American men i know married to English women.

it's like 8-0

It must be that American women are more submissive...........................

no, it's that american women are bastards i think....

i may be getting this thread all rong.

I too wish to marry at least one American woman

American men do not marry English women. Story of my life, really.

These people do exist, not just on internet creep forums. Two of my ex boyfriends were... well, obviously both of them dated me, so it wasn't exclusively Asian women, but there was a decided preference.

the amount of American women i know married to English men is totally disproportionate to the number of American men i know married to English women.

point being, again, that there are people (not just white men) that have preferences. i'm not seeing where this is an issue for a concerned focus group formation.

the amount of American women i know married to English men is totally disproportionate to the number of American men i know married to English women

That's interesting. I do know a couple other American woman/English man couples but only one American man/English woman couple. I wonder why.

I'm thinking it reflects badly on American men

DOESN'T EVERYTHING?

i know quite a few people that choose to date pretty much exclusively a certain racial group other than their own. maybe its cos they dont get approached by the opp sex in their own racial group or maybe its just that theyre not attracted to them and associate certain things with the group they do date. but either way, they do have a pretty strict unbending preference.

So, why aren't the Asian women who would date all this white men seen as creepy?

allowing that, titchy, i'm not seeing why the subsets mentioned in this thread are in line for such a kicking.

or, more explicitly, the white men mentioned in this thread.

ENBB all but one of them met because the American woman was a big fan of British indie-pop. I mean to the friendly observer that is the clear connection between them all, which is fair dos at the end of the day.

Actually make that all but two.

HA! You could probably add me to that list because that was the first thing that L and I ever talked about.

OMG.

I am a statistic.

There is no shame in it at all.

I think at one point on Sinister it was 12-0 (I am indeed one of the 12 - does the mere fact Sinister was involved mean British indie-pop was the catalyst by definition?).

Aren't there a couple american dudes married to english chicks on the board? Like, other than Colonel Poo.

So, why aren't the Asian women who would date all this white men seen as creepy?

-- Bob Standard, Friday, August 31, 2007 11:18 AM (Friday, August 31, 2007 11:18 AM) Bookmark Link

Actually I've heard them vilified by other women as gold diggers, etc.

I wish I'd known these stats when I decided to spend my marriagble aged years in the States. ::weeps bitter tears::

Colonel Poo is an English guy married to American woman tho...unless I'm confused.

Alex In NYC married an Englishwoman I believe.

but Alex In NYC is really from Tyneside - just don't tell anyone

theres actually tons of articles on this subject on the net (predictably). this one below, despite the shitty layout, has some good points. points 5, 6 and 8 are worth reading IMO.

http://modelminority.com/article113.html

eg - "So I have little patience for people who say "I just find X attractive; it's like ice cream flavors." People are NOT ice cream. I only ask that you ask yourself WHY you find attractive what you find attractive."

lol gygax

xpost

and i only ask WHY it matters? is attraction something we have a duty to question ourselves on?

Should we be policing our attraction in case it offends others for reasons inside their own heads?

well, bryan says:

"It wouldn't bother me as much if Asian women were also dating black men or Latino men," Bryan says. "But it's white guys. I've heard Asian women say they only date white guys. And it's because we live in a white culture. They do it for status. It's self-contempt."

well, if bryan says it then i guess it's so.

eg - "So I have little patience for people who say "I just find X attractive; it's like ice cream flavors." People are NOT ice cream. I only ask that you ask yourself WHY you find attractive what you find attractive."

Oh noes, are you trying to tell me I should be looking at males other than DDBs because I've internalised the idea that all DDBs are stupid and drugged up, and therefore more willing to let me push them around?
;-)

Seriously, I haven't re-read the above thread, but my memory of it was, it was a lot of people over-exaggeratedly giving Momus hassle for very specific reasons that have more to do with him being, well... him than anything else.

However, stereotypes which are backed up with statistical evidence are worth investigating, for all the reasons explained in that linked article. It's as interesting from a gender based perspective as a racism-based perspective. Why do these common trans-culture pairings (Asian Woman-White male, British Man-American woman) not happen equally across the genders?

most of the asian men i know exclusively date asian women, too.

i really dont see how a british-american white couple is the same thing as a asian-white couple.

It's similar because the relationships only go one way across gender lines. Which makes me wonder if there's a similar dynamic at work. Maybe not. But it's worth discussing.

i know at least three asian women who used to exclusively date white guys but have gone back to dating only asian guys...mostly they just got fed up with the W.M.W.E.D.A.W., often after dating a string of particularly terrible momus-types who don't treat them as unique or individual but as a fetish or sexual preference. then again i know plenty of white guy - asian woman couples where this is not the case, but the guys in question were not serial type daters in the first place.

any serial type dating seems like trouble, racial or otherwise.

exclusively dating on any trait is bad news, can we just leave it at that?

oh, and men are bastards

Well that only took five years.

Exclusively dating any ethnicity seems pretty stupid. I always figure my dating chances are pretty slim as is! That said, Asian girls can be pretty cute. My parents on the other hand, are still holding out hope for a nice jewish girl.
-- bnw, Tuesday, January 29, 2002 1:00 AM (5 years ago) Bookmark Link

I'm too tired to read Kate's posts but I assume we should ban her right?

i only date girls with big asses. I've tried to date others, but it just didn't work out. I'm like a size queen. about asses.

So about next Friday....

I dated an asian girl that had a mighty ass.
she hated it. and that made me sad :(

So about next Friday....

next friday and every friday is set aside for spending time in the company of ladies with big asses. it's what I do. come join us on our big-ass adventure.

What about, "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes", racist movie?

Joeks. Boyfriend wd not approve, I suspect.

i only date girls with big asses. I've tried to date others, but it just didn't work out. I'm like a size queen. about asses.

-- will, Friday, August 31, 2007 2:19 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Link

otm

i also have a tendency to date dancers

"dancers"

lol exoticizing exotic dancers?

ha

in the US, asian means south asia, ie the indian subcontinent. in the US, asian means east asia, ie china, japan, korea, etc.

i thought everyone knew this. or are you just trying to get a rise?

Least helpful explanation ever?

http://www.qwantz.com/comics/comic2-710.png

Who are the American-English couples on ILX? Mark C/sgs, Colette/Toby, Adamrl/Sarah, who else?

the Lex/Paris Hilton

me/my husband who won't tell me his username

(I was going to do a drawn-out "Paris Hilton is Nude Spock" joke; it is for the best I got xposted before I could figure out how to get to the punchline.)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33544275@N00/1323347199/

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1100/1323347199_41b4172d46_o.jpg

There is a nomnom gorgeous, funny Japanese boy in one of my classes who I would exclusively date were I not exclusively dating a wonderful man who I already love. It is hell of fun to idle flirt with this cuets man, tho.

darraghmac, you are a treat on this thread.

A bad scan of the New Answers page made me accidentally read "White Men Who Exclusively Date Ethiopian Food"

Which, you know, you could do worse.

"Judging by the smell, I'm guessing these leftovers are from late June."

"my wife's been having an affair with some ethiopian food"

"injera?"

"i'll bloody well kill her!"

Steve, you're setting someone up for a terrible "wat's on first" routine.

Unless you want to call tibs on it yourself.

Ibe created a monster.

I dated a Chinese girl for two years. To this day, I find Asian girls who resemble her EXTREMELY attractive.

Other than that, I find a whole lot of women attractive.

Especially those with asses. mmmmmmMMMM!!!!

For what it's worth, I'm still exclusively dating the same Asian woman I mentioned in this thread years ago. We've been together about ten years now, married for 3, and we have a beautiful, sweet 1 year old kid.

I've met lots of non-Asian guys with Japanese wives and girlfriends over the years, mostly guys who are dating my wife's Japanese friends. Marriage and serial dating are different things, but I have to say these guys don't really fit a type (other than that they are the type of guy likely to be dating/married to a friend of my wife e.g. generally pretty nice funny guys though of course the occasional scoundrel and/or rogue slips in). I've also met a few Japanese guys with non-Japanese girlfriends or wives, but it isn't as common.

There are some common problems in this type of cross-cultural relationship that I've witnessed and experienced - some different ideas about how to run a house or raise a kid, some difficulty communicating sometimes - but I can't say if those problems might be just as prevelant in any couple made up of people from extremely different backgrounds. I expect they would be. Most of our fights are about the usual things: money, laundry, dishes, whatever.

The ex-pat guys I've met in Japan seem to me to have more common traits than N. American Non-Asian dudes dating Japanese women - but I shouldn't generalize because I haven't spent as much time with them.

Not sure if that adds anything to the discussion.

I recently went to a bachelor party in which I was the only asian. I was talking with a group of 3 other guys and we somehow realized that all 4 of us had asian girlfriends. I asked them why they dated asians, and without skipping a beat they said that it was because in San Francisco, the "higher quality" women happened to be mostly asian. They claimed that asians were generally better educated, took better care of themselves, and were more ambitious. Each guy confirmed this.

I may be wrong since I'd only met these guys briefly a couple times before, but they seemed genuine. It caught me off guard since I had always thought some white guys just had a fetish for asian girls. And I found it refreshing because it made sense and seemed somewhat objective(ish).

They claimed that asians were generally better educated, took better care of themselves, and were more ambitious.

This is just hilarious. Sweeping generalisations to cover your fascination with a group of women from another culture. You should have loaded them up with some alcohol and/or drugs, maybe they would have added: they're better in the sack. Talk about positive discrimination. (I jest of course. In a way.) I mean, what if you said: "I dislike Moroccan guys because they are generally not well educated, take less good care of themselves and are less ambitious!" (Something that is said at times here in our country.)

I think white guys with long hair are supremely intelligent and tasteful beings of pure heart.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gmqX75fQiDs
;l

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lTMGJTh90zM
;1

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PQzfWCxCZXY
;>

http://youtube.com/watch?v=I4kUain1cOc
;I

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-RZtljxOjJk
lol they look like mongoloids

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nv5UdPWkZ7U
Ü

I think white guys with long hair are supremely intelligent and tasteful beings of pure heart.

Well, duh, you like dEUS!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-ylwPXbM_bY
;?

^lol

http://youtube.com/watch?v=as2E_ThTSBQ
‘‘

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7Ni3n0afYrA
tell me my creep game ain't on point ;]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DmyomjQPQsQ&mode=related&search=
;þ

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0d71v6WpEI0&mode=related&search=
;'

ftw ^^^^^^^^^^

i should be shot ;]

;>

id say a lot (not all though) of these girls have self hate issues or are trying to move up the social ladder.

I'd say you were trolling.

id say you have a right to your poorly formed opinion.

old ilx

"I'm a Leg Man"

I want to hear someone say this and somehow know they're making inappropriate Milne-style proper nouns. Or do I?

But why would anyone do that? Asian girls are neither blonde nor leggy

^ uh

tru

i'm more of a wheel man myself

http://www.invisionauto.com/Photo%20albums/LI%20Extreme/Radio%20Cit%20Rat.jpg

What about Chinese Men Who Exclusively Date Japanese Women?

http://www.japantoday.com/jp/shukan/432

"I feel superior when having sex with Japanese women because their country invaded China in the past. This is a kind of payback"

"The next 10 thrusts are for the Nanking Massacre"

I've never understood why white males are the only ones in this equation who are being ridiculed and criticised for only dating/fetishising asian women. I mean, it's way, way more common for asian women to date white males than the opposite. Looks to me that it's the asian women who are "obsessed" with white males.

But the original question is about white dudes. Their behaviour is strange. I mean, asian girls do not even have big boobs.

bada bing

Embarchie

why did momus leave anyway

come back momus-chan...

But the original question is about white dudes. Their behaviour is strange. I mean, asian girls do not even have big boobs.

― Embarchie, Wednesday, 30 January 2008 00:27 (2 years ago)

I would be one of those guys if I could get past the existence of stereotypes. I dated a Korean for a few weeks when one conversation just derailed our relationship:
(phone conversation)
ME: so what are you doing?
HER: nothing, having a snack
ME: Oh yeah, whatcha eatin' (duh, dumb endearing quality)
HER: rice
ME: What kind?
HER: What?
ME: What kind of rice? (realizing I just made a mistake)
HER: Have you ever had Korean food?
ME: YEAH, of course... No, wait, actually, I'm not sure that I have, actually...
HER: Koreans eat a lot of rice
ME: Um, I'm sure not all Koreans do. I mean, wouldn't it be kind of stereotypical if I said, "RICE! Of course you're eating rice!" (I said something to this affect, but can't remember exactly)
HER: I like rice.
ME: Me too! Rice pilaf... rice... hey, do you like risotto?
HER: You got something against rice?
ME: No, no, of course not. Leave me alone, gook! (just kidding!)

seriously, I don't remember the specifics, but surprisingly to me, a conversation about rice was what seemed to split us apart. I just felt alienated, as I'm sure did she, and yet I was just being a casual american. It actually didn't occur to me that she'd be eating RICE. That's like eating sprouts or something-- where's the rest of the meal?

But, Asians can be BAYOOTEEEFUL and I think they're hot.

― Nude Spock, Thursday, January 31, 2002 5:00 PM (8 years ago) Bookmark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRHLIvg7zHQ

http://theyreallsobeautiful.com/

I have met too many of those kinds of dudes.

i cracked up @ the dude @ 1:58

not guys who date asian women. I don't have a problem with that. I mean the creepy racist porn-damaged asian fetish dudes. I hate to kneejerk hate on shut-ins but the weird obsession with racial & sexual submission is something I can't forgive in anyone.

x-post 2:21 was the biggest "this fuckin guy" moment for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kbGrQe17cU

i hadn't actually seen the traielr for this, wowwwwwwww so uncomfortable/awkward

unban momus

^

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2332/1720860102_514c7ba55c_m.jpg

I read that as urban momus

ugh

now i feel dirty for clicking on this thread

Oh
my
god

"Oh look, there's two of 'em!" If there are a lot more moments like that during the movie I...no, I can't lie, I will absolutely watch that.

duuuuuuuuuuuuude so awesome must show wife

i will def, def see that

holy shit

Amazing

i couldn't even watch the trailer

is Momus actually banned? lol.

i couldn't even watch the trailer

― well if it isn't old 11 cameras simon (gbx), Monday, April 22, 2013 7:00 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

it was extra tough for me since i could understand everything she was saying, intonation etc.

Is it even more grim than it looks?

well the part where he thinks he's rehearsing wedding vows and she's doing some play-talking-to-children ish about cutting off fingers and toes stuff, yikes

yeah I can't see it ending well and/or happily for either of them

whole thing looks v sad and awkward just from the trailer

Too bad my wife will never ever post on here about creepo dudes like that guy. Or maybe I'm glad she won't, given that I've heard plenty of stories.

Hopefully there will be a sequel about his second wife from Thailand. Who, hopefully will have a dick.

I remember listening to a story about this film on npr a while back: http://www.npr.org/2012/06/22/155571292/for-one-man-she-had-to-be-pretty-and-asian

I'm interested in seeing the movie.

LUM: Yeah. You know, growing up as an Asian-American woman, you can not live without encountering so many men like the main character of my film.

what my wife says

i feel like fetishizing a specific race is a racist thing to do because it has to do with "exoticization," which works to reify racial difference. in 2013, whether someone is asian or not should not be a big deal. i don't know how momus got around that critique of his asian fetish.

is Momus actually banned? lol.

― Pat Finn, Monday, April 22, 2013 7:08 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

i dunno, i asked where he went a while back and someone said he was, i think.

god that movie looks both hilarious and painfully awkward/creepy. want to see it, but i expect i'll spend half the running time watching from between my fingers.

parts of this and discussion from the director were on This American Life a few weeks ago

xpost maybe from that other NPR story?

i wouldn't be able to sit through that movie, i don't think.

bc of the cringe-factor

Momus isn't banned iirc, he left (but kept lurking everyday, according to himself when he blamed SB for killing Bimble)

jeez. he actually said that?

x-post 2:21 was the biggest "this fuckin guy" moment for me

― Heyman (crüt), Wednesday, April 3, 2013 9:24 AM (2 weeks ago)

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdcakumIju1rt290oo2_1280.png

Momus isn't banned iirc, he left (but kept lurking everyday, according to himself when he blamed SB for killing Bimble)

― Devendra Bumhat (sic), Monday, April 22, 2013 9:04 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

ty

now i'm depressed and want to harm momus

sb?? what?

well the part where he thinks he's rehearsing wedding vows and she's doing some play-talking-to-children ish about cutting off fingers and toes stuff, yikes

Was I the only one who had subtitles?

well the part where he thinks he's rehearsing wedding vows and she's doing some play-talking-to-children ish about cutting off fingers and toes stuff, yikes

read this and for some reason kind of immediately thought of 'audition.'

Good work, Internet.

http://cdn1.images.videobash.com/photos/000/042/401/42401.jpg

i've noticed this. it's fucking weird and gross. unless, i suppose, you're an asian porn star, in which case, go team.

huge lol at pplains

Hopefully there will be a sequel about his second wife from Thailand. Who, hopefully will have a dick.

wanna roll this fucking colonialist racist garbage back a little dandy don? signed, a guy whose inlaws are all from Thailand, you fucking dick

You're having a hard time with sarcasm. Get over yourself.

north vs south

your "sarcasm" is gross racist crap. I know from your posts here you think you get a pass, but you don't. eat shit.

underrated aerosmith is right dandy, that pose was offensive on multiple levels. and not just in a PC way, but in a way where i can actually imagine a transperson reading that and feeling hurt and alienated.

*post

lol @ imagining dandy don accepting trans people as actually being people

Was I the only one who had subtitles?

― pplains, Monday, April 22, 2013 9:22 PM (27 minutes ago) Bookmark

i was speaking more to the intonation/cues in her voice and the way she said stuff

in the beginning when she finds out whatever bureaucratic process he went through wasn't actually legally binding, there's a real note of panic + fear in her voice

is there some kind of thai = trans stereotype i'm not aware of? hate to ask, but i'm a little lost...

apparently

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey

okay, expanding universe and all

So sorry for any sort of unintended allusions to stereotype. Unintentional. I guess I need to get out more often.

dude. no.

come on. that was not unintentional. it is a really common stereotype. a popular iteration of it has -- as in your "joke" -- an american in thailand "accidentally" having sex with a trans person. this can be seen in the hangover 2, but also other places

boy this is boring

come on. that was not unintentional.

I've never seen either Hangover movie. Sorry I'm not up to date with this stereotype. None of my buddies have ever been on a sex tour of Thailand, but my impression was that kind of thing was with underage girls.

Again, I'm sorry about that.

yeah i thought thailand related fetish was pedophilia myself also. i think every trans person i know is white or black, would guess that's the case in sandy springs or atlanta or wherever don lives now.

i've never read anything about women into asian guys. feel like i'm asking for a disaster if i'm just asking for uninformed opinions here and iunno if anyone on ilx actually would want to share their experiences in this regard... i do know its a thing, i do know my sense is that it is much less creepy in general, but i have the feeling its not really talked about as much. i'd be interested in any suggestions for articles or anything?

^i personally know one woman like that, and that's 100% of my knowledge on the subject

i don't think anybody's done any sort of theorizing on the subject

oh jeez, there's this one blog about it, what's it called

lol: http://www.speakingofchina.com/

haha speaking out of turn here and i may be wrong here in which case my bad but i knew a girl, who posted here sometimes, who definitely seemed to be dating almost exclusively indian dudes for a while there. generally though when i've known women who gone for some interracial exclusivity it was black women who were into white guys or white women who were into black guys. that could just be greater opportunity though, i've known way more whites and blacks than asians. i've never known of anything as developed and creepy as yr momus types though.

xpost ok i am finding that blog a bit creepy.

did link to this article tho: http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/ASIAN-POP-Opening-the-box-2464552.php

i've never read anything about women into asian guys. feel like i'm asking for a disaster if i'm just asking for uninformed opinions here and iunno if anyone on ilx actually would want to share their experiences in this regard... i do know its a thing, i do know my sense is that it is much less creepy in general, but i have the feeling its not really talked about as much. i'd be interested in any suggestions for articles or anything?

― Chuck E was a hero to most (s.clover), Monday, April 22, 2013 10:18 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

i was looking at an amwf tumblr run by a white girl a while back, so they're out there

dunno if it's mentioned upthread but louis theroux did a show about guys like this going to thailand to find brides.

Re how "creepy" or whatever it is, only Asian dudes who are being fetishized can answer that, depending on how creepy they find it. It doesn't have the overlay of "subservient" femininity in quite the same way, though, and never can. Which, on that point I feel like there's a straight line between the "subservience" of Asian women and colonialism, but someone can school me if that is wrong or incomplete?

no i think that's the whole issue right there -- why this particular fetish seems creepy and problematic. especially with the added thing about these "brides" from asia being desperate for a green card -- which seems to be the case in that movie -- the power asymmetry is pretty galling and, you have to suspect, part of the appeal for that dude

"on that point I feel like there's a straight line between the "subservience" of Asian women and colonialism"

in one sense, yeah, but bear in mind that asian societies (huge generalization to be made i know, but...) took a leap from feudal/pre-feudal forms into the modern world fairly abruptly. like some western dudes might fetishize japanese women as being 'submissive' but what's actually expected of japanese women in japan is pretty regressive too typically. mainland china i can't speak to, but i think there's an irony here in that its a society that went through a revolution and had a sort of huge shake-up in the role of women. so if there's a place in the region where ethnically chinese women would be the least accepting of any sort of china-doll bullshit, i'd imagine it would be the mainland?

arranged fetishization

wow so i googled up reviews of this film and multiple ones have the guy in question "responding" to the film in the comments.

e.g. http://rogersmovienation.com/2013/03/28/movie-review-seeking-asian-female-at-the-florida-film-festival/

Many misconceptions fade away with this film. Many seem to remain. Many arise anew.
“Sight Unseen?” Debbie Lum being an ABC came loaded with her own stereotypes imbued in her vision.
While it does capture some truths, ithe film does not show the entire truth.
In the end it is only Debbie Lum’s view of our life and her version of our life.

What does not come across, and what you did not notice, is the fact that I took nine trips to China to meet different people. People who, like me, wanted to change their lives.
I met Sandy on the fifth trip after ten months of almost daily email and WebCam communication with each other for long hours at a time before we even met in person.
Sandy was raised in the country on a tea farm which gave her a grounding of good morals and a work ethic.
Then ten years in the big city where her hard work and determination led her to become an executive secretary in an upscale fashion company.
She was not a face in a catalog that I ordered by number. She is a vibrant, intelligent, can-do person with a quick wit and wonderful sense of humor.
My first time with her was a two week long 24/7visit that was great fun and we communicated rather well with the aid of our electronics and old-fashioned hand gestures.

Then followed a short visit to meet her parents and tell them we were serious.
Then another two week visit to make sure we were still on track with each other.
And then a final visit to go to the US Consulate and prove that we want to be truly a married couple.
I dare say that this is a longer and more formal courtship then most American couples undertake.

To have it summed up as a “creepy love affair” is quite an insulting paycheck for my open honesty.
To have our love doubted or put as questionable by someone who has not even talked to me strikes me as slightly arrogant.

What has followed, besides the few misunderstanding stumbling blocks of culture shock featured in the film, is a marriage of three and a half years that has grown in happiness and love.

As for my attraction to the exotic beauty of Asian women, really, what’s not to like?
It is really a numbers game as well. The odds are on my side.
There are billions of Chinese.
Here in America I am an invisible almost non human with greatly reduced minimal receptive choices.
In China I am greeted continually with smiling happy faces wherever I go.

Not a tough decision.
It is a totally pragmatic and practical decision on my part.
My “creepy” search was a methodical process of finding one person with whom I had the best chemistry.
I found her.

Steven Bolstad
Protagonist
Creepy White Guy
Seeking Asian Female

lol his signature. hope he signs emails that way too

Here in America I am an invisible almost non human with greatly reduced minimal receptive choices.

:'-(

I think there was a smiley by "creepy white guy" that my copy/paste didn't pick up.

really, what’s not to like?

xpost s. clover, lol and ew. yeah, that guy basically admits that he looked to china to find a wife because over there he can exploit his white american privilege to attract women who wouldn't give him a second look if they felt they had more opportunities and options. i say fuck this guy.

As for my attraction to the exotic beauty of Asian women, really, what’s not to like?

The only sentence of his entire response that matters.

p much