Is Brirain a worse place to live than it was in 1986?

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― Alba (Alba), Monday, 4 September 2006 09:32 (nineteen years ago)

Britain, bah.

Interesting differences in priorities. When people think things are generally OK then terrorism floats to the top of their worry list. Things are worsers do the "lack of respect" thing much more.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 4 September 2006 09:37 (nineteen years ago)

terrorism IS a crime!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 4 September 2006 09:38 (nineteen years ago)

this all seems relatively sensible tho. telling however, how far down environmental concerns are for people.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 4 September 2006 09:39 (nineteen years ago)

I generally agree with the things are worsers' set of priorities more, except for when it comes to the environment. I keep thinking it looks like the list of lower-income respondents, but maybe I'm wrong.

― Alba (Alba), Monday, 4 September 2006 09:41 (nineteen years ago)

Some things are better and some worse. I hate these kind of surveys.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:39 (nineteen years ago)

terrorism IS a crime!

Indeed. Nelson Mandela got sent down for 27 years for it.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:40 (nineteen years ago)

Crime is probably lower than it was in 1986

― Ed (dali), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:42 (nineteen years ago)

crime is lower, violent crime is much higher.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:43 (nineteen years ago)

i.e. everyone who does it is on drugs.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:45 (nineteen years ago)

And indeed it is

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page54.asp

― Ed (dali), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:45 (nineteen years ago)

not by much

http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page63.asp

Clearly there was a spike in Junglist violence that was eased by the emergence of Jazz-step drum and base

― Ed (dali), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:47 (nineteen years ago)

interesting it peaked during the last economic boom.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:48 (nineteen years ago)

Violent crime had been reclassified so many times since 1986 it's difficult to compare. It's even difficult to compare between constabularies now as they classify things differently. My memory of city centres in 1986 is of pretty grim places with a lot of unrecorded violence/drunkeness. I know that city centres at night are still fairly intimidating places where a lot of crime happens but I'm not convinceed they are worse than in 1986.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

i think britain would be a much better place if we are lacking Respect.

― ken c (ken c), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:51 (nineteen years ago)

This would be equally true if you did the survey in 1950 or 1830. Britain's always been going to the dogs.

― stet (stet), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:54 (nineteen years ago)

Especially in Walthamstow boom boom.

Hang on a minute, the title of this thread refers to somewhere called "Brirain." Middle East somewhere, right?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:55 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

Also a lot of those violent crimes are people nicking your mobile phone which obviously didn't happen so much in 1986. Although it would have been funnier to see someone hareing away with one of those huge brick type things and then having to come back for the over the shoulder battery pack.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 4 September 2006 11:58 (nineteen years ago)

How do people measure 'lack of respect'?

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:13 (nineteen years ago)

with a lackofrespectometer, obv...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:18 (nineteen years ago)

you have to consider british politics to be in a worse state today than 20 years ago. there's no opposition now.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:20 (nineteen years ago)

if you say there's no effective opposition now, well, there was hardly an effective opposition 20 years ago either.

― stet (stet), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:21 (nineteen years ago)

probably not, but there was potential for... something?

iirc labour received more votes in 1983, than in 2005.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:25 (nineteen years ago)

what's the argument against mandatory voting?

― stet (stet), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

Nobody worth voting for?

Opposition 20 years ago - that'll have been Kinnock, who in the words of Alan Clark, had Thatcher cornered over the Westland affair but then had an attack of the wind and she got away scot free, while he continued burping on about "this BANK-RIPT GIVVERMINT" as opposed to the "LIBBA PIDDY" he was leading at the time.

And Red Wedge, of course.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:29 (nineteen years ago)

iirc labour received more votes in 1983, than in 2005.

No, it was in 1987 than Labour (in defeat) polled more votes than in 2005 (10.03m to 9.56m; in '83 they polled 8.46m). However, 5.4m more people voted in 1987 than in the last Gen Elec.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:33 (nineteen years ago)

I can remember listening to the Westlands debate on the radio - all of us, as a family, like in the war! It was like listening to Lancashire fail to bowl out Yorkshire despite having all day to do so.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:39 (nineteen years ago)

Britain is clearly a worse place because the kids today would not be able to understand the above sentence.

― Ed (dali), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:41 (nineteen years ago)

No, it was in 1987 that Labour (in defeat) polled more votes than in 2005 (10.03m to 9.56m; in '83 they polled 8.46m). However, 5.4m more people voted in 1987 than in the last Gen Elec.

I say, Michael, steady on, old chap! Is that from your BRANE?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:42 (nineteen years ago)

Why is terrorism touted as if it's never happened in Britain before? Surely there was as tangible risk of terrorism from the late 60s through to the late 90s from the IRA/UVF etc as there is now.

― T B (T B), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:42 (nineteen years ago)

this is Big Terrorism.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:44 (nineteen years ago)

I recall Michael Foot putting in a good showing in the Westlands debate (at least he got the ball to swing). I should check it out in ~~Wisden~~ Hansard.

I say, Michael, steady on, old chap! Is that from your BRANE?

Yes. (Meaning "no".)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:45 (nineteen years ago)

I was in my early 20s in 1986 and I can safely say that England was a much worse place to live then. Politically, Thatcher was in power, and Labour under Kinnock were a pathetic opposition. In 1986, unemployment was about at its peak. The music scene was probably worse in 1985, but still 1986 was fairly dire in that respect. Pubs still closed in the afternoons, espresso coffee was still hard to come by in London. The public infrastructure was in a far worse state than it is now. Parks, phone boxes, tube entrances, etc in a state of permenent vandalisation. As for terrorism, the IRA was still active, swathes of London would be regularly closed off by the police. 1986 was crap.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

espresso coffee was still hard to come by in London

My God, how did we live?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:48 (nineteen years ago)

We went to Bar Italia, that's how we lived.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:50 (nineteen years ago)

An argument against mandatory voting is that it would become spintacular - the 30% or so of people who didn't care would be hugely vulnerable to PR nastiness which (and this is a negatvie from my perspective, if not everyone's) the right wing can do rather more effectively than the left.

― === temporary username === (Mark C), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:51 (nineteen years ago)

oh noes, pubs closed... while i would have been at work.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:53 (nineteen years ago)

espresso coffee was still hard to come by

Sometimes I like to play the game of trying to remember what shops existed in the places now taken over by Starbucks.

― C J (C J), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:53 (nineteen years ago)

bring back the three day week i reckon. my weekends never feel long enough.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 4 September 2006 12:57 (nineteen years ago)

Sometimes I like to play the game of trying to remember what shops existed in the places now taken over by Starbucks

Cleese's Bread and Dripping shops, mostly. Staffed by adorable little cockernee urchins wearing bowler hats. Lumme, mister.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:00 (nineteen years ago)

I was there in the London of 1986. Revivalist knows that of which s/he speaks.

Provided you averted your eyes from the charts, it wasn't a bad year for music, though...hang about, I feel a thread idea coming on...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:01 (nineteen years ago)

no internets, grime, or post-chris morris-television-that-"isn't 'the day today', but hey, what is?" in 1986.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:01 (nineteen years ago)

I do miss Groove Records in Berwick Street, though.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:02 (nineteen years ago)

correction: Greek Street, no wonder I missed it...

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:02 (nineteen years ago)

Mullets.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

There are a couple of 1986 threads on ILM, but I can't be arsed to revive either of them.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:03 (nineteen years ago)

And I forgot to mention: food was crap in 1986 too. Microwaved spag bol and chips, and the like.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:06 (nineteen years ago)

that can't be true of everyone, surely?

but yeah i would guess more is available now, and beer is canned better.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:08 (nineteen years ago)

I think the cheese fondue party was all the rage still in 1986.

― C J (C J), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:11 (nineteen years ago)

I was in my early 20s in 2006 and I can safely say that England was a shitty place to live then. Politically, Blair was in power, and the Tories under Cameron were a pathetic opposition. The music scene was probably worse in 2005, but still 2006 was fairly dire in that respect. The public infrastructure was in a terrible state. Parks, phone boxes, tube entrances, etc in a state of permenent vandalisation. As for terrorism, al Qaeda was still active, swathes of London would be regularly closed off by the police. 2006 was crap.

But unemployment was lower than in 1986 and you could get drunk at 5pm on Sunday, so yay!

― Hello Sunshine (Hello Sunshine), Monday, 4 September 2006 13:11 (nineteen years ago)

Britain's always been a crap place to live.

There's a general sense of life as endurance- "mustn't grumble" - rather than enjoying it.

Too many old people is my theory:

Crabbed age and youth cannot live together: Youth is full of pleasaunce, age is full of care

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Monday, 4 September 2006 15:06 (nineteen years ago)

TS: Brirain vs Bahrain

― timmy tannin (pompous), Monday, 4 September 2006 15:10 (nineteen years ago)

I've also got my doubts about 1966 - the time when England, or perhaps just London, was allegedly 'swinging'.

From all of the accounts I've seen, the swinging was fairly limited and participation mainly confined to the young elements of the upper classes and the music and art world.

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Monday, 4 September 2006 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

History was written by the swingers. Today—by the whingers?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 4 September 2006 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

If you let the terrorists win, you will have to call it Brirain.

― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 4 September 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

Are Britons stupider than they were in 1986?

(A: Nah, equally fucking thick and evil both years.)

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Monday, 4 September 2006 20:00 (nineteen years ago)

I didn't even notice the typo til now.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Monday, 4 September 2006 20:02 (nineteen years ago)

1986 - Take My Breath Away
2006 - I Wish I Was A Punk Rocker

Not a choice I'm willing to make.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 07:52 (nineteen years ago)

in 1986 all I experienced was my mother's womb, so I'd say it's probably improved a tad, yeah.

2006 - These Streets is a more offensive example btw.

― Obvious Ninja (Haberdager), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 07:55 (nineteen years ago)

food was crap in 1986 too. Microwaved spag bol and chips, and the like.

I don't think we even *had* a microwave in 1986 - I don't think our family had one until about 87 or 88.

Main food thing I remember from back then that we don't have now: Vesta boil-in-the-bag meals.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 08:50 (nineteen years ago)

You can still get Vesta meals! I was discussing them with my Dad recently and he went out and bought a couple for nostalgia's sake. I hate them, meself.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 08:52 (nineteen years ago)

Oh yes, they were awful. Especially the paella ones.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 08:53 (nineteen years ago)

I like the crispy noodles with the chow mein, that's the only bit I like. And they're crisps, essentially.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 08:54 (nineteen years ago)

Hahaha, that was the only bit I liked too! I also loved watching them cook in the deep fat frier (that's something else we had in 1986 and don't have now - it's oven chips all the way for me nowadays)

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 08:56 (nineteen years ago)

It's telling that poverty scores so low on both tables and that the word hasn't even been mentioned on this thread.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 09:03 (nineteen years ago)

I was going to mention it, but then I started thinking about about oven chips.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 09:05 (nineteen years ago)

"Cost of living" comes much higher. The word poverty is the turn-off, I guess. Rich people don't like to think poverty is something we have in this country and poor people don't like being called povvers.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 09:08 (nineteen years ago)

Live Aid vs Live 8
Maradona's hand vs Ronaldo's wink
Colin Baker vs David Tennant

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 09:08 (nineteen years ago)

Oven Chip technology has come on in leaps and bounds.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 09:11 (nineteen years ago)

Top Gun vs Snakes On A Plane

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 09:12 (nineteen years ago)

poor people don't like being called povvers.

I think it's more likely that poor people have better things to do than to answer pointless surveys that won't change a single thing or discuss said surveys on the Internets.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:00 (nineteen years ago)

Like watching Jeremy Kyle.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:01 (nineteen years ago)

This was an ICM poll. They are obliged to get responses from a cross-section of society, surely?

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:02 (nineteen years ago)

Was it a phone poll?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:03 (nineteen years ago)

yeah but he's fucking watching you whilst you sleep and wanking in yr breadbin

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:03 (nineteen years ago)

xpost to superaize disaster, obv

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:04 (nineteen years ago)

The generalistation "food was crap in 1986" is doing my head in! No more so than to-day, surely.

Ha ha ha ha DG

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:05 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, by 1986 food was infinitely better than, say, 10 years before. In our house at least, such exotic treats as Spag Bol and Chilli con Carne were regulars which was a sight better than the meat, boiled tatoes and veg I seemed to spend the entire 70s being force-fed.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:08 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.drunkenhero.com/jeremy.jpg

yeah you laugh now pash but you're fucking next

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:08 (nineteen years ago)

I can't believe that cunt hasn't been chinned yet.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:10 (nineteen years ago)

Telephone poll of randomly generated numbers, yes, I'd have thought so. How many people don't have a phone at all these days I don't know, nor whether they adjust the figures to take this into account.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:11 (nineteen years ago)

1986 was great cos school finished at 3.30 and i had the energy to get up early and watch wackaday of a weekend morning. the rent seemed to get paid without too much fuss on my part, and there was always a hot meal in the evening.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:14 (nineteen years ago)

1986: Kilroy
2006: Jeremy Kyle

The slogan "You'll find it hard NOT to listen" has become synonymous with Jeremy Kyle and his show in recent years.

i can think of a few other expressions that have become synonymous with kyle

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:18 (nineteen years ago)

Going on his show is like volunteering to be put in the stocks.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:18 (nineteen years ago)

The generalistation "food was crap in 1986" is doing my head in! No more so than to-day, surely.

Had many heard of 'organic' re food at that point tho? Now it's a lot more common. There's increased variety now in terms of what's available and popular also (examples range from concept of Thai food in pubs to 'poncey fare' like cous cous).

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:26 (nineteen years ago)

And it seems more people are getting wiser about what food they buy now and what's in it. Also a bit of a backlash against supermarkets taking effect, people preferring to support smaller local shops and markets. Maybe some sort of 'class divide' thing tho, and my perception warped because I live where I do. The increase and abundance of fried chicken outlets and other places serving 'bad food' would counter the argument perhaps.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:29 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not sure that Capitalism's ability to invent new needs and fads has got much to do with the quality of food tho.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:29 (nineteen years ago)

the fact you put organic in scare-quotes speaks volumes!

most pub food is still really bad, not prepared on premises, etc, now. they probably didn't have as much food in pubs back then though?

xposts

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:30 (nineteen years ago)

Food is way more varied and of better quality now, both in shops and in restaurants/cafés/pubs. Back in 1986, people were still eating Spam ham, for God's sake! I worked as a barman at the Dome on the King's Road in the mid-eighties - baguette sandwiches were regarded as exotic then! And Thai food was still a decade away.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:33 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not sure that Capitalism's ability to invent new needs and fads has got much to do with the quality of food tho.

I'm just considering it re in what ways life in Britain is generally better now than then.

I'm not sure why I put organic in quotes actually.

Selection is one thing, quality another of course.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:34 (nineteen years ago)

(i don't 'get' the prevalence of thai food.)

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

I think most povvers still eat cheap crap from supermarkets.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:35 (nineteen years ago)

Thai food is so over. Except in Thailand, I assume.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

cambridge didn't get mcdonalds till 1992. 'food' for thought.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:36 (nineteen years ago)

The Thai Green Curry is to the Noughties what Steak and Chips was to the Seventies and Tiramisu was to the Nineties.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:37 (nineteen years ago)

Thai Chicken is soup of the day in our canteen today.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:37 (nineteen years ago)

(i don't 'get' the prevalence of thai food.)

the Thai thing in pubs was really weird I thought. what made it easier to integrate than Indian, Chinese etc. I never saw a pub that had hired staff to cook chicken tikka masala etc. which seemed like a v good idea (keep people in the one place for more of the night) but there were already so many Indian restaurants around and so few Thai ones in comparison (say, ten years ago which is when it seemed to start taking off/becoming more popular suddenly).

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:39 (nineteen years ago)

Well, I don't particularly think thai food is the nectar of the gods, I just mean there's way more variety now, and thai food, sushi etc. didn't exist then. And way more use of fresh products, too. In the eighties, things came out of a can far more often. But I admit there's a class/regional divide here. People in the south and middle class people eating much better than they used to. Maybe not so much the case for working class people and northerners.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:39 (nineteen years ago)

Swings and roundabouts. They have this kind of rubberised surface in playgrounds now (made from recycled car tyres) so children find it much more difficult to hurt themselves. In general, playgrounds have improved a lot, but there is still a big problem with vandalism.

I suppose things are generally better, but that's no excuse for all the bad things that still go on.

I hope the supermarket backlash continues, and spreads out to other things too, as seems to be the case.

Affordable housing would be nice.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:42 (nineteen years ago)

The freshness issue might be a red herring too because I'm pretty more people shopped at greengrocers in the 80s as opposed to picking stuff up in supermarkets that's been flown halfway round the world and stored at near freezing. It'd be interesting to compare the comparative availability of varieties of fruit and veg too.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:43 (nineteen years ago)

PJ most playgrounds prefer to use wood chips now than that rubberised asphalt shit - it's only got a life of about 10 years before it bakes hard and needs replacing. (lol at my playground design knowledge.)

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:44 (nineteen years ago)

NOBODY recycled twenty years ago either.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:44 (nineteen years ago)

I think supermarkets had already taken over by the eighties. Grocers still around in the seventies, not so much in the eighties.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:45 (nineteen years ago)

that stuff was being introduced in '86 -- or not long after -- iirc.

trudat re recycling. except bottles, maybe.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:45 (nineteen years ago)

video games were better in '86.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:46 (nineteen years ago)

rubbish, we sent tinfoil to blue peter

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:47 (nineteen years ago)

I agree that the nadir for many things came a little before '86 - probably '83 or '84.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:47 (nineteen years ago)

haha but people play '86 games on '06 machines!

playability > graphics [to use terminology of a man who hasn't touched a vg in ten years...]

xpost

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:48 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, what about taking your pop bottles back to the shop for the 2p deposit?

A quick blast with a Speccy emulator gives the lie to the 86 games better theory. That's pure nostalgia talking.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:49 (nineteen years ago)

in teh 80s in my grotty suburb tesco didn't turn up until about 1988 and i remember long and boring shopping trips with my mum round the grocers, bakers and butchers, all of which have now gone (polish deli notwithstanding)

tesco sold tortilla chips though which is why they deserved to win

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:49 (nineteen years ago)

There was an excellent organic/veggie restaurant near the library in newcastle city centre back in 1986, it closed down last year, so in that respect (as in, I'm in town and I want something to eat), perhaps 2006 is worse. Organic food was a tiny cult/hippyish thing back in '86, obviously it's much more mainstream now. But OTOH, there seems to be more shit food too - more branches of McD, people seem to feed their kids there more, back in '86, schools used to cook their food onsite, now it's contracted out, and only recently has this been exposed as the unbelievable fuckup it is. ASDA used to have a decent selection of food (@ least the one in gateshead did) now it's asda/walmart the shit they sell is fucking terrible, generally in supermarkets, the onus is much more towards visual perfection in yer fresh produce (like, apples all "perfect" shape & colour) with taste coming second, and people do seem to actually want this, probably there's more examples, I don't know.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:50 (nineteen years ago)

I agree that the nadir for many things came a little before '86 - probably '83 or '84.

-- Revivalist (revivalist@ho

The mid-late seventies was way, way worse than the early '80's in just about every way.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:51 (nineteen years ago)

just from reading old film mags and nmes, you can *just tell* that the period from the mid 70s to late 80s was *fucked-up*.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:54 (nineteen years ago)

but fwiw Mcdonalds are probably healthier now than they were in '86, and they've pretty much got rid of that fucking clown entirely. I don't think Mcdonalds is more popular now than in '86 tho.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:54 (nineteen years ago)

mad cow disease! where's this CJD epidemic the mail promised 10 years ago eh?

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:57 (nineteen years ago)

but fwiw Mcdonalds are probably healthier now than they were in '86

rly? presumably the "meat"-maximalizing precedures have got more effective since then.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 10:58 (nineteen years ago)

It may still be in the post, if some of the incubations periods reported at the time are true.

xpost

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:01 (nineteen years ago)

Oven chips have replaced deep-fat fried ones; McDonalds is healthier; the clown has gone. Yet Britain is fatter than ever. What's going on, Ronald McDoddz?

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:01 (nineteen years ago)

I'd suggest that for a whole bunch of people MacDo has gone from being a treat to being a staple.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:02 (nineteen years ago)

deep-fried chips >>>>>> oven chips tho innit really, looked at holistically.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:03 (nineteen years ago)

Deep fried chips are fine as long as you use crisp'n'dry.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:05 (nineteen years ago)

enrique you couldn't buy carts of salad in McDs then but can now. the fast food chains have felt more pressure in the last ten years to incorporate more choice and convey at least some sense of 'healthiness' in their products after much heat from watchdogs and activists post McLibel.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:05 (nineteen years ago)

moot argument really tho i guess as Mcdonalds still pretty unhealthy in general and the salad has probably been stripped of all nutritional value anyway.

their chocolate doughnuts were better in '86 :(

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:07 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/britain/article/0,,1537533,00.html

I wonder how many povvers have ever said this:

"Britain is now oleaginous. You can't get through a restaurant meal without a waiter drizzling extra-virgin over your tricolore."

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:08 (nineteen years ago)

I'd suggest that for a whole bunch of people MacDo has gone from being a treat to being a staple.

yeh but there's also a lot of people like me who ate it a lot growing up but in recent years have cut it out almost completely (can't remember the last time i went in but probably only one or two weak moments this year).

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:09 (nineteen years ago)

I would never go at all if they didn't put crack in the Filet o' Fish.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:10 (nineteen years ago)

"And if I have to read one more article about how, each year, the River Cafe's Ruth Rogers and Rose Gray embark on a Tuscan odyssey to find the finest extra-virgin olive oil, I will deep fry my hand or possibly someone else's in beef dripping, see if I don't."

the guardian is becoming more like ilx all the time.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:12 (nineteen years ago)

they'll be publishing an article by ed about all the different london accents there are next

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:14 (nineteen years ago)

The Grauniad would be hugely improved by random Googlers.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:15 (nineteen years ago)

It's called citizen journalism.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:15 (nineteen years ago)

haha 'london lite' has record reviews by punters. the column is called 'iBlog'.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:17 (nineteen years ago)

Not to be confused with the "Buslog" you get on certain London buses with their bloody Motional Media Ltd. screens.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:20 (nineteen years ago)

Still only 4 TV channels in 1986. Against my better judgement, I'm saying that's a bad thing.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:20 (nineteen years ago)

3 TV channels in 1976 were better.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:21 (nineteen years ago)

Channel 4 was still quite good in 86 tho.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:22 (nineteen years ago)

I can't remember much about C4 in '86 other than Damon lad going to That London and Karen Grant popping out to make a cup of tea and you never saw her again.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:23 (nineteen years ago)

The Wire was a better magazine in '86, when it was a proper specialist jazz journal.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:24 (nineteen years ago)

Better weeklies too. Sounds was still around, if not thriving.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:26 (nineteen years ago)

Fast food salads are yesterday's news. Make way for the Quad stacker

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:26 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think Britain is appreciably worse for not having Sounds.

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:27 (nineteen years ago)

Simon Reynolds wrote good articles in 1986.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:29 (nineteen years ago)

The NME employed writers in 1986 rather than getting a sub to reword press releases.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:30 (nineteen years ago)

ilx: no mention of the music press of yore, no credibility

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:32 (nineteen years ago)

Record Mirror, Smash Hits

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

i only read the transformers comic back in '86, wot is this 'NME'?

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:34 (nineteen years ago)

Tsk, kids.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:35 (nineteen years ago)

mark s vs megatron

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:38 (nineteen years ago)

megatron

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:38 (nineteen years ago)

I thought NME was pretty toss back in the late '80's actually. I don't know if 06 is better than 86 or vice versa, or if one is even better than the other at all.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:39 (nineteen years ago)

Still had Quantick and Swells and our very own Mr Sinkuh in 86 tho.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:46 (nineteen years ago)

1986 TV: Zammo on smack on Grange Hill and the godawful 'just say no' campaign; Lofty getting jilted at the alter by Michelle to the sound of Nick 'Wicksy' Berry's godawful 'every loser wins', "hello, shadwell here" on naked video, one live televised game of football every fortnight if you were lucky, Noel Edmunds' Telly Addicts...

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:49 (nineteen years ago)

one live televised game of football every fortnight if you were lucky

is it?

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:50 (nineteen years ago)

NME C86

― stet (stet), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:52 (nineteen years ago)

Halley's Comet!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:55 (nineteen years ago)

That was a dud wasn't it?

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:57 (nineteen years ago)

CHERNOBYL PH3AR > TERRORISM PH3AR

― Obvious Ninja (Haberdager), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 11:59 (nineteen years ago)

Hold a chicken in the air, stick a deckchair up your nose...

If someone offered me a time machine and said I could relive any year of my life 1986 would be waaaaaaaaaay down the list.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:01 (nineteen years ago)

a lot of good spectrum games came out that in 1986, as i discovered 3 years later

i have no interest in teh xbox360

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:02 (nineteen years ago)

There were some great Speccy games, sure, but a huge amount of near unplayable toss too. I don't want a xbox360 but the games sure look purdy when I see them being played in the shops.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:04 (nineteen years ago)

Football is an interesting one. It was in a pretty sorry state twenty years ago and many would contend that things have not improved (tho the problems themselves have changed) bar safety.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 12:06 (nineteen years ago)

In 1986, you could go and see THE SHOP ASSISTANTS live.

Maybe even TED CHIPPINGTON.

I suppose a good thing about those wood chips is that you still get "scrapey" bits under the swings. The rubber is better for dads to sit on.

Miltonpinski, there were plenty of good films too.

I will try and think of one, other than WISH YOU WERE HERE and DO THE RIGHT THING.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:35 (nineteen years ago)

Do The Right Thing? Do you mean She's Gotta Have It, sir?

― Alba (Alba), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:40 (nineteen years ago)

Food's better now that it was in 1986? Is that the best we can come up with?

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:43 (nineteen years ago)

Is 'lack of respect' a euphemism for something?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:48 (nineteen years ago)

People smoke less / smoking is on the wane (but cocaine and alcohol abuse inc. drink-driving probably more common now)

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

Aliens! Ferris Bueller's Day Off! Um... Rocky 4!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not sure about the drink-driving. I have absolutely no facts to back that up, but I'm sticking to it :)

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

People smoke less / smoking is on the wane

Unless you're a woman, in which case you smoke more, yes?

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

>> In 1986, you could go and see THE SHOP ASSISTANTS live.

I love the Shop Assistants, but I thought they had a reputation for being really shit live? Or was that your point?

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

(xpost) No!

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/images/charts/866.gif

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:55 (nineteen years ago)

re. good films.

i was going to say 'betty blue' (1986). but it probably didn't get here til '87.

i saw 'aliens' in rep, a few years ago -- it had an original trailer reel! cronenberg's 'the fly' is the one i remember.

ooh 'manhunter' also.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

The Shop Assistants were an underrated group; I knew Alex Taylor very, very slightly at the time (friend of a friend) but post-Motorcycle Boy I have absolutely no idea what became of her. "Somewhere In China" is one of the great singles of the '80s. Shame about the album, though.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

BETTY BLUE! I can tell yr still a student!

― Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:39 (nineteen years ago)

what year was The Big Blue?

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:42 (nineteen years ago)

Less chance of random nutjobs beating me to death for the colour of my skin in 2006...Which is a plus....For me at least.

― Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:52 (nineteen years ago)

ver big blue was '88 i think.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

blue velvet '86

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:54 (nineteen years ago)

blues brothers '84?

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 14:55 (nineteen years ago)

I enjoyed very much a Shop Assistants concert in 1986, that's why I thought of them. DTRT was later, but I enjoyed that very much too, which is why I thought of it, rather than any durable qualities it may have (which I beleive it does have BTW).

I started university in 1986 you see.

I saw Alex Doodah with Meat Whiplash. I think that was post- Motorcycle Boy. I also saw Motorcycle Boy, supporting... The Jesus and Mary Chain?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

I think I read somehwere (perhaps even here) that the original [Wicker Man] was the lower part of a bill shared with Don't Look Now. I have never seen Don't Look Now, but what a double whammy, eh? And now they are both newspaper freebies.
Perhaps this should be on the 1986 thread.

-- PJ Miller (pjmiller6...) (webmail), Today 5:30 PM. (PJ Miller 68) (later)

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:31 (nineteen years ago)

Meat Whiplash were still around post-Motorcycle Boy? Did they ever release anything apart from the Creation single which came out in 1985 or so?

I have that Motorcycle Ride 7" with Alex fronting Ride doing Blondie covers!

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:33 (nineteen years ago)

cocaine and alcohol abuse inc. drink-driving probably more common now

I'm sure cocaine use is far higher now than it was 20 years ago. I expect alcohol consumption is higher, but I'm not sure how much of this is just media hysteria - lots of people have been binge/heavy drinkers in this country for decades, if not centuries. I'm pretty sure drink driving is far less common now than it was in the late 60s / early 70s, but like Colonel Poo I'm not going to offer any evidence to back this up.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:40 (nineteen years ago)

I'd expect alcohol consumption to be about the same or lower (what with the health kick over the past 20 years)

― Stone Monkey (Stone Monkey), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:49 (nineteen years ago)

no alcopops in '86

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 15:59 (nineteen years ago)

i mean what DID 15 year olds drink twenty years ago? awful cider i suppose - that was my entry into boozing too.

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

I was 15 twenty years ago. I drank beer, Merrydown dry cider and occasionally cheap wine and very occasionally vodka.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 16:03 (nineteen years ago)

Snakebite, in me and my peers cases. Teenagers' drinking habits = rank stupidity, then and now.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 16:04 (nineteen years ago)

Merrydown is the devil's drink.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 16:06 (nineteen years ago)

Weren't English teams banned from playing in Europe in 1986 after Heysel? Bad years for football those.

― Major Alfonso (Major Alfonso), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 17:00 (nineteen years ago)

Dunno about 20 years ago but 15 years ago this 15 year old drank cheap cider (Scrumpy Jack, Merrydown, Diamond White, K etc) or cheap lager (Lynx, that Tesco's one, Norseman I think) or supermarket brand vodka + coke or orange juice.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 5 September 2006 17:08 (nineteen years ago)

History was written by the swingers. Today—by the whingers?
-- Euai Kapaui (tracerhan...), September 4th, 2006.

Marvellous!

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 17:09 (nineteen years ago)

I like PJM's mails. I like the thread. The thing is - these are all interesting details. But ... what is the big process, the big change, that drives or explains it? Or do you not think that exists?

― the pinefox (the pinefox), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 17:14 (nineteen years ago)

Snakebite's back in, Pashmina. I was treated to it on several occasions last year, before my tastes wandered to the equally-lethal but even-nicer Cheeky Vimto, a combination of about 6 measures of port and a blue WKD. :-D

Ale is the way to go, though.

― Obvious Ninja (Haberdager), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 17:16 (nineteen years ago)

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