When will Blair go?

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Seven junior members have resigned.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5319328.stm
"I was going to sack them all anyway".

Why doesn't he resign? What's he waiting for? And other questions...

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:02 (nineteen years ago)

"People in the country want a change," Henderson told the BBC News website.

woah careful with that sorta talk!

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

i think he will go....

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

now!

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

ok, now.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

rats.

now.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:25 (nineteen years ago)

it's pathetic. i predict next they will all stop talking to him entirely and whenever he speaks say "did you hear something?"

― Konal Doddz (blueski), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

I saw there was great celebration at the Daily Mail when Thatch was named "most successful PM of the modern era (1900-present)" and lots of "hnerr.." at Tony Blair. The chart showed that umm, she tied with Gaitskill. Who was not mentioned/pictured/fawned over in the article.

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

I suspect the Brown camp has been plotting this for a while and these seven are the cannon fodder going over the breach. Very interesting to see how things go now.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:49 (nineteen years ago)

I hope they make V signs behind his back and spit in his food when he's not looking

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

he wants his 10 years and he'll probably get it

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:50 (nineteen years ago)

When is his ten years?

That'll be "longer than thatch" right?

― mark grout (mark grout), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:51 (nineteen years ago)

I think we'll see a stalking horse challenge over the next few weeks, as Brown clearly hasn't got the balls.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:51 (nineteen years ago)

Thatcher had more than 11 years.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

now?

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:52 (nineteen years ago)

its very hard to be a stalking horse in the labour party (constitution isn't set up like the Tories')

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

thatch had 11 and a half years

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

thatcher should SERVE at least 11 years etc etc

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

You can't have a stalking horse in the Labour Party - the rules don't allow it. No one's allowed to stand against Blair unless he calls a leadership election.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:54 (nineteen years ago)

may 1st next year mark! blimey i remember wot i was doing in 1997, where's the time gone etc etc

it wouldn't be longer than thee Thatch but it's a nice round number, and a lot more than gordon brown will get i'd wager

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:55 (nineteen years ago)

When his bladder can hold it no longer.

― Obvious Ninja (Haberdager), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:56 (nineteen years ago)

You can't have a stalking horse in the Labour Party - the rules don't allow it. No one's allowed to stand against Blair unless he calls a leadership election.

That doesn't prevent someone publicly declaring an intention to be Labour leader and offering Blair a square go. Blair can then dismiss it (and look worse) or contest it (and not win convincingly).

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:58 (nineteen years ago)

Brown will get a nice round number too.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 13:59 (nineteen years ago)

Indeed, Alan Johnson PM by Christmas.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:01 (nineteen years ago)

And that's not his old job as a postman.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:01 (nineteen years ago)

A working class ex-union leader leading the Labour Party? Fat chance!

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:08 (nineteen years ago)

tony robinson pm by christmas

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:13 (nineteen years ago)

EH - Gaitskill never actually PM.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

tony robinson pm by christmas

HURRAH!!!

Now he can truly sample the Worst Job In History.

― Angel In Love With Her Own Pedals (kate), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe he meant Attlee? (xpost)

― Ich Ber Ein Binliner (Dada), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 14:16 (nineteen years ago)

Why didn't they just change the locks on number ten whilst he was on holiday?

― jel -- (jel), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 15:41 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

Yes, he meant Atlee...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=402620&in_page_id=1770

The list was dreamt up by a Mr Francis Beckett. And here it is.

Margaret Thatcher - 5
Clement Richard Attlee - 5
Edward Heath - 4
Winston Churchill - 4
Harold Macmillan - 4
Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman - 4
Robert Arthur Talbot Gascoyne-Cecil [later Lord Salisbury] - 3
Herbert Henry Asquith- 3
David Lloyd George- 3
Stanley Baldwin- 3
James Harold Wilson- 3
Tony Blair- 3
James Callaghan - 2
Arthur James Balfour - 2
Andrew Bonar Law - 1
James Ramsay MacDonald -1
Sir Alec Douglas-Home -1
John Major -1
Neville Chamberlain - 0

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Wednesday, 6 September 2006 19:08 (nineteen years ago)

From what I understand, Tony Blair is totally reviled by the British public for supporting Bush. Am I correct? If he goes, will the new PM challenge Bush or maintain a sycophantic attitude towards Washington? If they have a choice.

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Thursday, 7 September 2006 00:39 (nineteen years ago)

Tony Blair is reviled for lot's of things, support of bush and commitment to two costly foreign wars (Afghanistan is the one making the headlines at the moment). If Gordon Brown becomes PM, he is very pro American but is not very much in favour of Bush's Mercantilist, projectionist tendencies. No one really knows his views on the wars, he has managed to keep out of all debate on it, the best anyone can say is that he is pissed off at the cost and duration of the war which is doing a great deal to besmirch his reputation as one of the best Chancellors of the Exchequer Britain has ever had. He's known.

He's pro public services and pro fiscal stability and closer to pro American thinking than pro European thinking (you get the impression that he sees most EU countries as slightly backward).

Probably not much change though after November 2006 any leader will be dealing the George Bush as a leader who is at best on his way out or at worst (from his pint of view not ours) as a leader with no political capital left and no control of his legislature other than a crochety veto.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 7 September 2006 07:36 (nineteen years ago)

I'm slowly coming round to the view that it's Alan Johnson who'd be Labour's best chance of winning the election. If the leadership challenge gets bloody it'll damage Brown's image hugely.

Also, the big thing in Johnson's favour is no one knows anything about him, and David Cameron's proving there's capital in being able to distance yourself from hugely unpopular parties/governments.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 September 2006 07:56 (nineteen years ago)

I'm slowly coming round to the idea that shooting them all would be good.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Thursday, 7 September 2006 07:58 (nineteen years ago)

i don't think labour can win now.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:03 (nineteen years ago)

;-;

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:04 (nineteen years ago)

what does alan johnson have to offer? is he charismatic?

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:06 (nineteen years ago)

If he goes, will the new PM challenge Bush or maintain a sycophantic attitude towards Washington? If they have a choice.

Brown (assuming he succeeds the present incumbent twat) will probably not want to be seen to be so publically chummy with Bush, but in policy terms there will be no change. He's already admitted that he would have handled the Iraq situation in exactly the same way.

― Venga (Venga), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:15 (nineteen years ago)

I think the Tories still have a long way to go before they can win. Yes they have a young charismatic leader who seems to be well liked, but people are still suspicious of the Tories and the Tories still haven't made any policy announcements yet (nor should they or will they until are year before the general election).

It's difficult to say how revitalising a new leader will be to Labour or how the Tories fuck up over the next three years.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:16 (nineteen years ago)

labour need to*de*vitalize if anything, before they privatize the very air we breathe.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:18 (nineteen years ago)

Well of course it's still completely possible for Labour to win - we are at least 2 years away from a general election - and much depends on Camerons continuing popularity (something which bemuses and amazes me more each day) and what Brown does when he becomes leader. I think we're looking more at a John Major situation with Brown just winning the next election. But I'm usually wrong.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:18 (nineteen years ago)

Cameron is popular because:

1) His youthful chubby face
2) He isn't Tony Blair (or Prescott, John Reid or Menzies Campbell for that matter)
3) He has put forward no concrete ideas of what he wants to do with the country so no one could possible agree or disagree with him.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:21 (nineteen years ago)

4) He isn't Scottish.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:23 (nineteen years ago)

5) Doesn't hate teh gays

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:28 (nineteen years ago)

6) has reached out to independent-readers

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:28 (nineteen years ago)

the most important constituency in the country.

― Ed (dali), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:30 (nineteen years ago)

well, you know what i mean, he seems greener than blair.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:31 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, all that but...fckng 'ell he's such a public school boy. I have nothing vs. them (some of my best freinds, etc...) but I thought the british public wouldn't go for that. I was wrong (as always).

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:31 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, all that but...fckng 'ell he's such a public school boy. I have nothing vs. them (some of my best freinds, etc...) but I thought the british public wouldn't go for that.

ned, let's take a trip down memory lane all the way back to 1997...

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:32 (nineteen years ago)

Classless society innit?

LMFAO

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:32 (nineteen years ago)

Alan Johnson didn't go to university because he was in a MOD BAND and wanted to MAKE IT BIG.

searching for confirmation of this (here) i found this startling paragraph:

as a lad he was in a band, just like the PM - although his was successful enough to release a single, unlike Blair's 'Ugly Rumours'. (He keeps up his interest in the latest music and, being a moderniser, does not dwell on the past. The last CD he recommended to me was The Boy With the Arab Strap by Belle and Sebastian).

OMG!!!!!

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:42 (nineteen years ago)

haha 'populist touch' in spades then...

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:43 (nineteen years ago)

'it could have been a brilliant career'

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:43 (nineteen years ago)

We want Twee PM!

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:44 (nineteen years ago)

'chick factor' > 'things can only get better'

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:45 (nineteen years ago)

Luckily that tosser is a few hundred yards away from being my MP.

― I Supersize Disaster (noodle vague), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:46 (nineteen years ago)

Ugh! Ugh! Liking B&S is a reason to keep him OUT of Number 10, surely?

Let's get Boris Johnson in charge and just be done with it.

― Angel In Love With Her Own Pedals (kate), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:46 (nineteen years ago)

Awesome tackle vs Germans aside, I'm still with the intolerable buffoon camp on that one.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:48 (nineteen years ago)

ah yes, here's what he said about Ugly Rumours:

Why did Alan Johnson leave school at 15? "Personal reasons," he says, "but I wanted to be a rock and roll singer." For those who can remember the music scene in Chelsea in the mid-1960s, Johnson's band was called The Area. How did it compare with Ugly Rumours, the 1970s combo that famously included Tony Blair? "Much better than Ugly Rumours," raps Johnson. "Ugly Rumours was a poncy, loon pants Oxford..." Whatever noun he wanted to add, he clearly thinks better of it. "No, we were proper street-cred mods."

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:49 (nineteen years ago)

he's older than blair?

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:50 (nineteen years ago)

He keeps up his interest in the latest music and, being a moderniser, does not dwell on the past. The last CD he recommended to me was The Boy With the Arab Strap by Belle and Sebastian

But ... that was released 8 years ago!

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:51 (nineteen years ago)

3 years older.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:51 (nineteen years ago)

The Area

LOL!!!!

― Angel In Love With Her Own Pedals (kate), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:52 (nineteen years ago)

The article is 2 years old, so he's only 6 years behind the curve. THat and "last CD he recommended to me" isn't the saem as "last record he bought".

(Alan Johnson was on Sinister and lurks here)

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:54 (nineteen years ago)

Well, that's true - and you don't know the context he might have recommended it in. Maybe it was something like "B&S have been big lately but you should try TBWTAS first - it's their best album"

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:56 (nineteen years ago)

possibly not this "the area"

http://www.myspace.com/areufocused

(warning: scantily-clad lay-deez alert)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:57 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe he said "You should try a boy with an arab strap"

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 7 September 2006 08:57 (nineteen years ago)

He wasn't really on Sinister, that is a lie, surely?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 7 September 2006 09:08 (nineteen years ago)

It would be funny if it were true, though.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 7 September 2006 09:10 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

Yeah, all that but...fckng 'ell he's such a public school boy. I have nothing vs. them (some of my best freinds, etc...) but I thought the british public wouldn't go for that.
ned, let's take a trip down memory lane all the way back to 1997...

-- a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money, September 7th, 2006.

Yeah, I know and that's my point, why would they want another of the fckers?!

Also someone please tell me how to do italics...

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 7 September 2006 09:11 (nineteen years ago)

"No, we were proper street-cred mods."

PRESTON!!!!

"Much better than Ugly Rumours," raps Johnson. "Ugly Rumours was a poncy, loon pants Oxford..." Whatever noun he wanted to add, he clearly thinks better of it.

I like him already.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 7 September 2006 09:13 (nineteen years ago)

I would like to see Reid as leader under the platform "Vote Labour or I'll Kick Your Fucking Teeth In".

― Why does my IQ changes? (noodle vague), Thursday, 7 September 2006 09:15 (nineteen years ago)

<i>italics</i>

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 7 September 2006 09:17 (nineteen years ago)

i wonder if alan johnson ever wore an "i love ken chu" badge

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 7 September 2006 09:17 (nineteen years ago)

I don't remember ever sending him one, but I can't remember who did get them now.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 7 September 2006 09:19 (nineteen years ago)

thanks for that fp.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:01 (nineteen years ago)

is john reid conceivable? he has the right-wing press on-side. by being a fucking fascist.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:38 (nineteen years ago)

I too am worried about Reid.

― Venga (Venga), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:40 (nineteen years ago)

REID
DON'T TRY IT

Next election bagged, I think.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:42 (nineteen years ago)

His lack of hair is against him. No baldie has been PM since Churchill.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:43 (nineteen years ago)

David Cameron has shown no teeth.

This is fine if the election was two weeks after his election to the leadership. "Vote Cameron, he;s nicer than Blair" etc.

Two years later, if he has shown no teeth, it'll be "Blimey, he's a bit on the dull side isn't he?" and even Blair would beat him.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:45 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, but Churchill won the war! Isn't that what New Labour wants?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:46 (nineteen years ago)

new labour needs to retract its "teeth" in afghanistan.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:47 (nineteen years ago)

MWAHAHA eh oh I mean OMMMMM.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/09/cameronPA040906_363x600.jpg

― suzy (suzy), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:52 (nineteen years ago)

Johnson's son's a studio engineer. There was a piece on them in the Sunday Times a few months ago where he was complaining about his dad raving about all these weird new bands.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2216757,00.html

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:53 (nineteen years ago)

But then again Reid would stand even less of a chance against Cameron than Brown.

Oh bollocks, they're all a bunch of cunts anyway and we're all doomed.

― Venga (Venga), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:54 (nineteen years ago)

Blimey, yes, Robert Wyatt's mate Jamie Johnson, I didn't realise!

I've suddenly warmed to the man Johnson.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 7 September 2006 10:55 (nineteen years ago)

"But I think if you asked him whether he dreams of being prime minister or the lead singer of the Super Furry Animals, it would be the Super Furries every time."

he's got spies but they're not quite like the KGB

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Thursday, 7 September 2006 11:14 (nineteen years ago)

A year or so ago, I said that I didn't think he'd resign until Spring 2009. Damn.

― Forest Pines (ForestPines), Thursday, 7 September 2006 12:00 (nineteen years ago)

I think Johnson will get it becuz he touches most bases; Brown's failure to act has caused him to lose a lot of his backers, who think that he's either yesterday's man, or not decisive enough. He's also incurred big hostility from the Blairites for being called Gordon Brown.

As a result, Brown's voters aren't as numerous as they once were, and Cameron's appearrance has them worried; metaphors abound of Callaghan.

However, the poster boy of this generation - Miliband (D) - is too anonymous and too policy wonky, so he'll not do. That leaves Reid and Johnson versus Brown. Reid scores high Blairite points, but would never tickle enough Labour members to get it.

Johnson, however, has lots of pluses for someone wanting to lead the Labour Party right now.

He isn't closley aligned with Blair - he's presented himself as loyal, rather than slavish. His 'I'm a working class lad who never went to University' offers a nice tickle to the Labour's Party (misguided) self-image, and offers a nice counterpoint to Cameron. He's also southern English, but has a northern seat. He used to be a Trade Union official, and his campaigning skills were much in evidence there - he's a smart cookie (witness the way Heseltine conceded how he stopped their plans to privatise the post office).
He's been a capable administrator - nothing has fucked up on his watch (unlike Clarke), and his lobbying for top-up fees showed how he can work the backbenches to make them go places where they didn't want to go. Finally, he's a cabinet minister who isn't massively well known, so he has the opportunity to be seen as new (like Major) which is a problem for Brown.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:09 (nineteen years ago)

i'm so happy that tony robinson has more say in who the next PM is than i do

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:14 (nineteen years ago)

xpost otm plus he's not a Scot, which will be used mercilessly by the tories in the next election if Brown/Reid gets it.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:17 (nineteen years ago)

Jeremy Corbyn for leader

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:23 (nineteen years ago)

I think Brown will limp to victory, but fatally tarnished by the fact that he lacks the killer instinct and didn't move sooner. Then he will be faced with a very tough general election which could go either way.

What a huge shame Brown didn't resign years ago over Iraq.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

Why would he resign over a policy he was in full agreement with?

― Venga (Venga), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

hahaha dj martian is a mean self-satirist.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:29 (nineteen years ago)

yeah come on it's completely fucking obvious what will happen given that the labour party seems to be populated entirely by DROOLING FUCKING MONGS

brown will win and we will all get to watch him live out his gladstone wank fantasy whilst it actually being a john major reality -> 2010 cameron wins, a nation drowns itself in the bath

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:32 (nineteen years ago)

hmmm, it looks like blair has gotten away with it once again, anyway. till next week.

The Real DG otm

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:33 (nineteen years ago)

"ooh i bet the sontarans are in the season finale! they've been dropping hints all along!"

"oh it's the daleks again"

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:36 (nineteen years ago)

Yep.

Why are certain backbenchers like Corbyn always referred to as "left-wing"? They're in the Labour Party, ffs, they're meant to be left-wing. I don't remember people like Reid or Byers ever being described as "right wing Cabinet minister...".

― Venga (Venga), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:40 (nineteen years ago)

It's like they have an agenda, or something.

― A DROOLING FUCKING MONG (daveb), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:42 (nineteen years ago)

well you've saved me the trouble of pointing it out

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:44 (nineteen years ago)

Pointing what out?

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 7 September 2006 13:47 (nineteen years ago)

He did not set a precise date but said he would do so in the future - when it was in the best interests of the country.

So go now!

He has said anything new at all. Everyone, including his own arsewiping team has been saying this for months, no wonder Brown pushed some to fall on their swords, it must be very frustrating for him watching his cahnces of winning an election slip away. But he's only got himself to blame.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

He has NOT said anything new - is of course what I meant.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:02 (nineteen years ago)

And what is with all these long pauses he does now? He always did pauses but they're getting so it looks like he can't remember what he's trying to say. Is he suppsed to be showing how deep he's feeling his anger/hurt/exasperation? Whatever it is it's very irritating.

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:08 (nineteen years ago)

He's been doing it all his career. Ham-acting, as if to show emotion and reall feeling. He did it during that People's Princess bollocks, and the wind changed, and he became unable to speak ay other way.

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:10 (nineteen years ago)

i would say that hopefully it's alzheimers, but then he'd be spared any potential future guilt over his unremembered actions

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:14 (nineteen years ago)

Talking of annoying pauses...

...

that thing Brown does with his mouth when he pauses to take a breath annoys the fuck out of me.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:18 (nineteen years ago)

i find it kind of gross.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

the darth vader-style inhilation you mean? it is a bit odd...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 7 September 2006 14:52 (nineteen years ago)

From the NYTimes article:
On Wednesday, eight junior aides quit Mr. Blair’s camp, leaving the sense of a land in crisis.

Leaving aside the quibble that obviously the sense is of a government in crisis, not a country, who uses "land" like this? I mean, apart from its facetious use: "Gordon Brown appeared happy with Tony Blair's concession as he was seen driving off into the land of make believe."

― g00blar (gooblar), Thursday, 7 September 2006 17:55 (nineteen years ago)

Ah, also, it's poorly edited all the way through:

At a previously scheduled visit to a school in North London, Mr. Blair said today that the critics had “not been our finest hour.”

Mr. Blair took power in 1997 on a wave of euphoria that built as he struck the 1998 Northern Ireland peace agreement and, with Mr. Brown running the economy, opened the country to a remarkable period of low unemployment, low interest rates and high employment.

I hope they take another look at it before it hits the print editon.

― g00blar (gooblar), Thursday, 7 September 2006 18:00 (nineteen years ago)

Is the war in Afghanistan as unpopular as all that?
Has the British public so soon turned it's back on fifty seven years of loyalty to NATO?

― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Friday, 8 September 2006 01:38 (nineteen years ago)

Lawson thinks Brown should call a general election immediately after he takes office, which would probably work pretty well.

David Cameron will inevitably chuck down the election glove during their first dispatch-box exchanges, in the absolute certainty of it being refused. But, by dissolving his parliament at the very moment it solidifies, Brown could not only silence any allegations that he had stolen rather than won power, but would also panic Cameron, who would be forced to commit to actual policies at least two years before he plans to do so.

― g00blar (gooblar), Friday, 8 September 2006 07:35 (nineteen years ago)

It would also send the message to the nation that Brown is crazy in the good way that we want politicians to be crazy.

― g00blar (gooblar), Friday, 8 September 2006 07:36 (nineteen years ago)

hahaha "loyalty to nato"

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 07:50 (nineteen years ago)

There was the one weird Tory-Boy in my class who used to draw Nato symbols on his exercise books.

― Why does my IQ changes? (noodle vague), Friday, 8 September 2006 07:52 (nineteen years ago)

it's not afghanistan that's turned people against blair, but in a way it should be. it's not a question of numbers of men killed, just the sheer idiocy of what new labour thinks is possible there.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 07:54 (nineteen years ago)

If you think the British public even remotely cares about Afghanistan as an electoral issue you're heading off into the land of make-believe.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 September 2006 07:58 (nineteen years ago)

Well said.

― g00blar (gooblar), Friday, 8 September 2006 07:59 (nineteen years ago)

Afghans in Britain on the other hand... now you're talking.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 September 2006 07:59 (nineteen years ago)

British people dying over something the British public doesn't remotely care about is something the British public care about. Tabloids covered in grieving family pictures makes it an electroral issue.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:01 (nineteen years ago)

Politicians using dead soldiers as a stick to beat each other with makes it an electoral issue.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:02 (nineteen years ago)

That's true, but there are many bigger sticks.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:03 (nineteen years ago)

From NYTimes again, this time fully edited:

The political stagecraft was evident even in the choice of a school as backdrop for Mr. Blair’s announcement, because Mr. Blair wants to be seen not just as a ~~warrior~~ spineless fuckwit but also as a leader who enhanced public services like schools, policing and health care.

― g00blar (gooblar), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:04 (nineteen years ago)

If you think the British public even remotely cares about Afghanistan as an electoral issue you're heading off into the land of make-believe.
-- Matt DC (runmd...), September 8th, 2006.

yes... which is why i said "it's not afghanistan that's turned people against blair, but in a way it should be."

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:10 (nineteen years ago)

i know an afghan in britain, anyway, and she's less than keen on the war, without being all 'yay taliban, my mum left the country in the 80s, wonder why' about it.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:11 (nineteen years ago)

I actually meant the British public is more bothered about Afghans entering Britain.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:16 (nineteen years ago)

ah.

i think onimo might be right, anyway, but it probably makes no difference electorally because our slavish atlanticism is not a party issue but systemic. it *does* make people pissed off though, it's *not* just 'people like us'.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:19 (nineteen years ago)

Afghanistan hasn't sunk very far into the British consciousness. It's Iraq that sunk Blair. Without that, he probably could have gone on snubbing Brown forever.

― Revivalist (Revivalist), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:22 (nineteen years ago)

it's not afghanistan that's turned people against blair

It's Iraq. As for our "slavish Atlanticism" being systemic, I don't recall any British troops being in Vietnam - altho we were asked... well more ordered

Margaret Thatcher to Ronald Reagan following the invasion of Grenada:

This action will be seen as intervention by a western country in the internal affairs of a small independent nation, however unattractive its regime. I ask you to consider this in the context of our wider East-West relations and of the fact that we will be having in the next few days to present to our Parliament and people the siting of Cruise missiles in this country...I cannot conceal that I am deeply disturbed by your latest communication.

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:23 (nineteen years ago)

i think this is right. although it was highly likely that afghanistan would turn into a bit of a mire, at least there seemed to be reasonable justification for going in, ie taliban activly supporting al-queda (or however we're spelling it this week) and running training camps, whereas, well i don't think i need to go over all the iraq stuff again, do i?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:37 (nineteen years ago)

I don't think Blair lied through his teeth over Afghanistan either... well, yes, there was all that guff about stopping the drug trade

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 08:54 (nineteen years ago)

he didn't lie, but it's the same panglossian nonsense. plus anyway the war there in '01 is one thing, the stuff happening now another.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:01 (nineteen years ago)

Wow, we've found somthing Tony Blair hasn't lied about!

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:03 (nineteen years ago)

but then he never talks about it, as far as i can see. it's the mod chaps who say things like 'without a shot being fired we will establish authority in southern afghanistan'.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:05 (nineteen years ago)

'without a minister being fired we will establish authority in southern afghanistan'.

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:09 (nineteen years ago)

mo drama

now clarke is right here, brown has been an absolute cock.

you'd think being the second most powerful politician in the country for nine years would give you some political horse sense (not to mention an ability to engage voters...), but he's a disaster. the continual no. 10 vs no. 11 briefings over the last... erm, nine years have done no favours to the labour party.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:26 (nineteen years ago)

And he sang the praises of a possible Blairite challenger, Alan Milburn, calling him "leadership material."

Now who's the "absolutely stupid" one here?

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:28 (nineteen years ago)

Brown's argument against Scottish Independence.

"The SNP want to drag us apart and impose a divorce when literally millions of Scots have relatives in England."

Okay, it was written for a Daily Record audience but still, wtf.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:33 (nineteen years ago)

... and when literally millions of English people say they won't vote for a Scotsman to be Prime Minister, Gordon

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:35 (nineteen years ago)

PERHAPS TONY BENN WILL COME OUT OF RETIREMENT FOR ONE LAST JOB

HE CAN TEAM UP WITH MICHAEL FOOT AND IT WILL BE LIKE LETHAL WEAPON OR SOMETHING

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:46 (nineteen years ago)

I GOT INVITED (KIND OF) TO A DRINKS THING FOR EL FOOT AT THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, IN A FEW WEEKS.

MAYBE HE WILL DECLARE, THERE AND THEN!

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:50 (nineteen years ago)

Am I the only person who thinks the "millions of people won't vote for a Scot" thing is overplayed?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:53 (nineteen years ago)

THEY WILL USE SCIENCE TO CREATE A CYBORG JIM CALLAGHAN

i won't vote for a scot

― The Real DG (D to thee G), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:53 (nineteen years ago)

Agreed, it sounds teh rubbish but a recent poll showed that millions of English won't vote for a Scot (xpost)

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:56 (nineteen years ago)

Well, better a Scot than a ginger Scot. A ginger SOT of a Scot...

― Angel In Love With Her Own Pedals (kate), Friday, 8 September 2006 09:57 (nineteen years ago)

Now see here

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 10:01 (nineteen years ago)

Has Brown really been acting like an idiot? Blair has been a complete liability for at least a couple of years now, and the sooner he is gone the better for the Labour party. It's Blair's refusal to accept this that is causing all the bother. That, and his attempts to stop Brown ever becoming Prime Minister at all costs, and desperately hoping that a Blairite candidate will emerge to take over instead, and trying to impose his own policies on whoever takes over.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Friday, 8 September 2006 10:49 (nineteen years ago)

Blair is a million trillion times more culpable than Brown in this (ongoing) nonsense

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 10:51 (nineteen years ago)

oh he's an idiot too, but how did brown think that blair would roll over now? much of their interpersonal relationship will have to wait for the biographers, i suppose.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 10:52 (nineteen years ago)

I think Brown just really wants to see Blair suffer now, which I heartily endorse

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 10:56 (nineteen years ago)

Me too.

I've read / heard a lot of bollocks recently in the media about the lessons to be learned from the way the Tories ditched Thatcher in 1990 - as if this was responsible for them getting wiped out in 1997, with the idea being that if Brown is forced out then Labour will be punished by the voters. This just nonsense - the Tories were miles behind Labour in the polls and Thatcher was incredibly unpopular (and starting to go mad), Kinnock would definitely have beaten Thatcher in an election, but as soon as Thatcher was booted out and Major came in the Tories gained about 15% in the polls overnight and won the next election. The treatment of Thatcher had no repercussions with the voters at all - it was the fact that Major's government was weak, incompetent, and divided over Europe that did them in.

― Teh littlest HoBBo (the pirate king), Friday, 8 September 2006 11:25 (nineteen years ago)

clarke had some balls writing that, is the other thing. would brown put him in the cabinet after that?

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:23 (nineteen years ago)

This isn't about balls, it's about backing a side for better or worse.

― Why does my IQ changes? (noodle vague), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:26 (nineteen years ago)

I'm assuming Clarke knows that Brown knows that he hates his guts. Does it really take balls to (try to) sabotage the leadership ambitions of someone who is unlikely to give you a leading cabinet post, and big up someone who is likely to give you a leading cabinet post?

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

i know what you mean. thing is cameron looks more electable now than kinnock did in 1990 (or 1992). that's just a feeling, i suppose.

"as soon as Thatcher was booted out and Major came in the Tories gained about 15% in the polls overnight and won the next election."

however i just can't see anything like a 15% bounce from *any* labour contender. with thatcher wasn't the unpopularity a lot personal? with blair i'm not convinced it is.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:27 (nineteen years ago)

With Blair, it's a lot personal

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:29 (nineteen years ago)

Clarke isn't going to go anywhere near the cabinet ever again and he knows it.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:29 (nineteen years ago)

Gallup had Labour polling at eight points higher at the last election if they'd have been led by Brown rather than Blair. I'm not sure if that swing was from the Tories or the Lib Dems, though. Anyone?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:29 (nineteen years ago)

Tony Blair is Scottish.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:30 (nineteen years ago)

We don't want him

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:32 (nineteen years ago)

Born in Edinburgh, educated at Fettes.

― treefell (treefell), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:32 (nineteen years ago)

REMEMBER HIM THIS WAY

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2c/Blairelectionaddress83.jpg

― Why does my IQ changes? (noodle vague), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:34 (nineteen years ago)

Funny how all the party leaders have Scottish surnames: Blair, Cameron, Campbell... except Alex Salmond of course!

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:34 (nineteen years ago)

Clarke isn't going to go anywhere near the cabinet ever again and he knows it.
-- Matt DC (runmd...) (webmail), September 8th, 2006 1:29 PM. (Matt DC) (link)

what makes you say that? he is a fairly big player, and new labour characters do tend to have big comebacks (also he didn't actually do much wrong...).

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:36 (nineteen years ago)

Pissing off Blairites AND Brownites is generally not a good idea

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:37 (nineteen years ago)

but his ears! Those ears will never be on a prime minister's head!

xpost

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:37 (nineteen years ago)

Being a useless cunt = doing much wrong

― Why does my IQ changes? (noodle vague), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:38 (nineteen years ago)

well yes but HE WAS IN A CABINET OF CUNTS.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:39 (nineteen years ago)

That's the "only following orders" defence.

― Why does my IQ changes? (noodle vague), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:39 (nineteen years ago)

i'm not a big CLARKE FAN or nuthin; i'm just saying...

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:42 (nineteen years ago)

Oh yeah, I know and I agree with your point. I just took the opportunity to point out that he's a useless cunt. In a cabinet of cunts.

― Why does my IQ changes? (noodle vague), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:44 (nineteen years ago)

Is that the collective noun?

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:46 (nineteen years ago)

The trouble with the Thatcher coup was that whilst it was electorally beneficial, the Maastricht Treaty ramifications with the Tories meant that in the minds of the 'bastards', Thatcher's removal by weak fools started to map onto the same impulse which was selling Britain down the river, and so Thatcher's removal was re-interpreted as a tragic mistake, rather than necessary act to win the election.

What helped them lose wasn't the division that caused them to lose a leader, but the division which the loss of the leader helped cement later on.

As for Cameron, he has absolutely no impact on the Tory vote in Scotland or the North; he might get a few metropolitans to think about going to them, which has had a big effect on the Lib-Dems, traditionally the beneficiaries of metro switching. The analogy with Kinnock might be OTM, in that however more electable he looks, there's an irredeemable uncertainty that will always get in the way.

― Dave B (daveb), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:47 (nineteen years ago)

so Thatcher's removal was re-interpreted as a tragic mistake

Tho that reinterpretation is more likely to come from New Labour than the Tories these days

― One Man's Mede Is Another Man's Persian (Dada), Friday, 8 September 2006 12:49 (nineteen years ago)

But still - like I said at the top of the thread, why doesn't he go? What's he expecting to happen, is it really what the political hacks are saying and that he's just acting like the alpha male and won't go until he's beaten? Why would he want to go through all this shit? He's already been PM for chrissake. What is it with power that it has this hold?

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Friday, 8 September 2006 18:27 (nineteen years ago)

the Tories were miles behind Labour in the polls and Thatcher was incredibly unpopular (and starting to go mad)

"starting"

― Venga (Venga), Saturday, 9 September 2006 00:38 (nineteen years ago)

Oh, now we have Clarke saying Brown has 'psychological issues' YO YO PROJECT A BIT MORE WHY DON'T YOU? Besides, what qualifications has he to say things like this, it's a bigger slander than 'something of the night' innit?

― suzy (suzy), Saturday, 9 September 2006 13:10 (nineteen years ago)

If Brown comes in, say, tomorrow, he would have to announce soonishly, i.e. within the next 12 months, that Britain is pulling its troops out of Iraq. It is something he must do if Labour stands any chance against Cameron-bot. If he does this he announces a break from Blair's most unpopular policy and a return to a Labour party for whom the principles of international law are paramount - a return to the kind of Labour party that people feel like voting for. Everyone knows his other credentials - that he's steered Britain's charmed "Goldilocks" economy (not too hot, not too cold) for the last several years; his (supposed) commitment to trade unions, "old" Labour etc. However, if Britain pulls up stakes in Iraq, the US is left even higher and dryer than before, and its position becomes even more untenable. With midterm elections coming up in the US, and Presidential elections just two years later, the Republicans need every ounce of legitimacy they can get for their Middle East rodeo. I would be shocked if Bush et al were not calling with daily reassurances and encouragement for Blair - "just hang on a while longer, old boy" - and threats for Brown. But, as Larry Elliot points out, Brown may be just fine with waiting on the sidelines for awhile longer yet because the economy which has turned Labour's image around may finally be headed off the rails. It would be ironic if Brown's greatest achievement over the last five years is suddenly the noose that hangs him, while Blair gallivants off to St. Albion, thinking "if I'd stood again - we might have had a chance." All polls show the Tories ahead. No one I know thinks Cameron will lose, especially if Brown stands, and when the housing bubble bursts there's no surplus to pay debts off with the way there was when the stock bubble burst. I mean, why would Brown want the job at all at this point? What's in it for him, except to get stuck as the patsy?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Saturday, 9 September 2006 13:27 (nineteen years ago)

i'm sure we've been pulling out in 12 months for the last two years now. is that just perception? rather than announce it, he'd need to do it, though. i can't see the situation improving in the next 12 months, so may as well pull out now.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 11 September 2006 08:24 (nineteen years ago)

Funny. Everyone seems to think that the UK conservatives wouldn't have blindly followed the US into whatever war they decided to fight anywhere. That this is all Blair's personal misguidedness. Remember the "special relationship"? It really doesn't matter who's supposedly in charge anywhere.

― StanM (StanM), Monday, 11 September 2006 09:22 (nineteen years ago)

i agree. who's saying the tories wouldn't have gone into iraq? they explicitly supported the war.

― a rapper singing about hos and bitches and money (Enrique), Monday, 11 September 2006 09:29 (nineteen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.