Suicide Baiting: Explain This?

But I was thinking about people last night – generally – and I realized I knew exactly among my friend and acquaintances who would be in the 'jump, jump' pack, who would be in the do-nothing pack, and who would be in the race to the top of the building pack. And while I was about 90% certain for 90% of the people I knew, it didn't line up with their day-to-day actions.

P.S. I do agree with you on the 'no-one acts without self interest' thing, but on a more philosophical level... I think a mature, well adjusted 'nice' person will realise the greatest rewards for oneself are gained by being socially responsible.

Many times xpost to Dan.

Further – there are some people I know (/aspire to be) who NEVER act with deliberate cruelty, unkindness, or hurtful selfishness. Surely if one's actions are guided by casual charity and a kind of generosity of behavior, it's hard to accidentally fall into cruelty or maliciousness. Isn't it?

On the topic of suicide baiting, it probably stems from a mix of a)teenagers' general lack of sense when it comes to actions/consequences, b) the disconnected sterility inherent in online communications, c) morbid curiousity ("is this guy really gonna do it?"), and d) the seductive allure of having a weak-willed person under your command.

Ever visit one of those how-to suicide forums? Creepy stuff.

If that's your idea of constructing a reasonable analogy, I can see why you think it makes no sense.

I'm calling BS.

xpost

maybe he should spend more time making up gay stories about emo dudes assfucking on his couch
-- and what (an...), September 15th, 2006 12:09 AM. (ooo) (later) (link)

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to the delight of luna, trayce, and ned raggett
-- oh (an...), September 15th, 2006 12:10 AM. (ooo) (later) (link)

but who's happier?

...a behavior which, if he's anything like others I know along those lines, tends to make people more likely to fuck him over, ironically (and sadly) enough. If someone has that attitude, I know I instinctively "change modes" when dealing with them.

Personally I think the 1-in-20 figure for sociopaths is pretty accurate, and so are the kinds of figures seen in the Milgram experiment: about two-thirds of people will tend to go along with things they know are wrong, and about one-third won't.

Put those two things together, and add in the fact that we're living in a society that rewards and encourages sociopath-esque behavior, and it's no wonder that lots of shitty things happen. But I think it's a leap to get from that to "people are self-interested assholes by nature" -- in part because, in fact, that hasn't been my experience: something more like "People tend to rise or sink to the level of what's around them".

http://onnachance.com/quiz/teen.jpg

my family are disturbingly stable though, i resented my parents not getting divorced so i could play them off against each other for playstations etc

hahah I don't think so.

I think the problem here, Dan, is that these two stances aren't mutually exclusive. This is what I'd like to call a "false binary".

2. I believe that there is an unknown- and unknowable- minority that is inclined to act in bad faith/be shitbags. This can be a temporary or chronic state depending entirely on the individual and what kind of day/week/year they've had. I think modern criminological studies are behind me on this.

3. In order to be able to survive, you have to be wary of 2. But to function with people on a regular basis, you also have to assume 1, or you wind up unabombing. Let yourself be surprised by others' kindness, sure, but don't turn into a fucking scrooge in the process.

I don't see as much of a difference here as some people, I guess.

I don't see any difference in the outcomes from assholishness and malice, but I figure that you can learn not to be an asshole, or grow out of it, but malice is a more indelible character trait.

-- TOMBOT (tombo...), September 19th, 2006 10:40 PM. (later)

I second that emotion.

The author indicts "50% of human interaction," not "50%" of the population, probably because he can't bear to think that he is even among 50% of the population.

People do not help each other without some level of self-interest,

Another generalization of the sort that some people tell themselves to feel better about their own lack of feeling.

whether that manifests in tangible or intangible rewards; furthermore, the negotiation of balancing the individual's need to satisify his/her id with society's expected standards of behavior

"Individual vs. Society" faux dilemma is a sort of fascist mentality.
Or has this just been plagiarized from somewhere else?

Expecting people to be nice to each other or to have each other's interests in mind is not only naive, it is an open invitation to get used and abused by most of the people you meet.

This is the classic excuse assholes tell themselves for, you know, not getting involved when they witness crimes and so forth. Furthermore, this idiot cannot see that there is a difference between "expecting people to be 'nice'" and "expecting people to do the right thing." One can be an honorable and ethical person without being "nice". Certainly, I've never read a behavioral psychology text that discusses the role of "niceness" in society.

I believe that what the writer of the above really means is that to expect others to behave ethically and in a non-abusive manner is to invite abuse. Which is illogical. I have no idea who wrote this, but he sounds like a fifty year old man.

Thank god ilx consists mostly of people in their twenties and thirties, otherwise we'd be reading loads of this tripe from "self-interested", bitter and aging boomers. In my experience those are the people who trot out this stuff the most.

NV, you love humanity really. *goes towards corner holding flashlight*

I do love humanity. I Love Life.

me too. this is like the grudge thread. if you go around all suspicious-like all the time surely it's more unpleasant being you than if you aren't constantly expecting the worst from people. suspect it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy too - so-and-so never trusted me anyway, what's the point, fuck 'em vs no i can' do that to such-and-such, they'd be all broken up.

I do know that a much larger percentage of the people I know who think that people are inherently good have been used and screwed over than the people I know who think that people are inherently selfish and narcissistic

yeah, but i dunno, i think we realign pretty well. i don't feel like i get fucked over that often. sometimes horribly, more frequently just a bit let down, but when it does happen horribly, i'll stomp around glaring for a week/month/whatever but i always know i'm coming back to an even keel and i'm far, far happier when i'm there.

Going by the news, 95% of people are foul shitheads; going by my own experience, the number drops to maybe 5%.

this is true, interesting and relevant. someone up there (govt/murdoch etc) wants us (general populace) to hate and be suspicious of each other, and fuck each other over to get what we want. i haven't entirely fathomed why. some of it is to do with us allowing them more control of our lives and data. insurance companies probably love it. perhaps they fear a mass uprising. i don't know.

i don't think it's entirely to do with cruelty (i am not claiming it is not cruel), but ooh, the DRAMA! imagine! lots of teenagers already feel disconnected from other people, and like nothing ever happens. so here's a juicy something!

IOW, young, fresh, full-voiced Danny D is OTM, and I will retract my statement if he does not give me five dollars

People are, to varying degrees, predominately empathetic creatures.

As long as we're throwing percentages around, I'd say that 90% of what we are calling cruelty is weakness, stemming from jealousy, fear, the need for peer aproval; etc.

Genuine cruelty (Sorry, I'm too lazy to define my terms) is rare. I've been cruel, and that was mostly when I was younger, but the impulse was infrequent and empathy trumped cruelty. I derived more pain than pleasure from watching others suffer, especially at my behest. I learned from those experiences.

And of course we have ethics, morality and character.

As far as getting fucked over, I don't know how people are definging "fucked over". If, by that, you mean that your friends and family let you down, well of course, people are flawed and selfish even when they have the best intentions. We are bunglers.

When it comes to something more serious, like infidelity, I can tell you that the value of trust is worth more than the pain of betrayal, by a long shot.

What, somebody hurt your feelings? People are basically selfish, mostly good, and clumsy.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! In Dana Carvey voice: My name's Dan and I'm a cranky old coot. People are just a bunch of jerks. Why won't you dern kids leave me alone. Stop it with the noise already, I'm tired and scared.

it's a personal, I'd like to ask you to go back to your post, review it critically, and understand why you're an idiot.

Dan, however, is a fifty-year-old man.

http://barney.gonzaga.edu/~tlarson1/SallyOMalley.jpg

I'M FIFTY!

Raise your hand if you're among 50% of the population.

people in groups = fucking nutzoid.

What, like right now? I don't have 3 billion people around me at the moment but you never know what will happen on the weekend.

Boy With AK-47 Confronts Headteacher

A MASKED 13-year-old Missouri boy confronted his headteacher with an AK-47 Kalashnikov assault rifle yesterday, firing the weapon into a ceiling and pleading: "Please don't make me do this."

The unnamed student was wearing a mask and pointed the gun at Steve Gilbreth and Steve Doerr an assistant superintendent at the school in Joplin, Missouri, Jim Simpson a schools superintendent said. ...

Billsmouse writes:
We also have to consider that the Government has told people now a days that they can not punish their kids anymore, the way we adults were punished as kids you can't spank them for being bad, you can't smack them for cussing you out, you have no control over almost anything anymore. And why????? Ask yourself and search deep for the answers.

Lacey writes:
The media's part of the problem as well. Yes I know that we are entitled to know what is going on in our country, but do we have to sensationalize it so much? The only time you ever hear anything about schools is when something tragic happens. Not only do we know that there were shootings, but we have to hear the gory details and visualize what happened. The only thing that this accomplishes is giving other psychos ideas on what they can do, and desensatizing all of us. Instead of wasting time arguing about whether or not it is because we took prayer out of school, why don't we all spend time praying for our schools? Ask God for protection of not only our children, but the children all around the nation. Ask God to bring comfort to the parents and family who have lost their precious child at the hands of these psychos. We were very blessed today that no one was hurt today (physically)

No Spin Please writes:
After watching the 5:00 news I became very concerced that this was turning into an opportunity for the school district to spin this in their favor. I have read accounts on this website, as well as those on national websites. They are both very consistent in regards to the fact that the boy's gun jammed. This can only be attributed to divine intervention. If you know anything about firearms, the AK-47 is still used to this day because of its reliability. I applaud the school districts handling of this event. And as a first hand witness, I think the police departments response time is second to none. The event happened at 7:45 a.m. and I saw them on the seen in less that 2 minutes! My only point is that if the gun hadn't jammed we would not be applauding the school district and the police response time would not matter. We need to do more to prevent this from happening again, because if his gun hadn't jammed I am sure there would have been faculty and student casualties!

Concerned writes:
Schools definitely need more security. Hopefully after today Joplin will take steps to make that happen so nothing like this happens again.

Kathy writes:
I am so sick of hearing how these "children" were mistreated, misunderstood, and whatever else the bleeding hearts can come up with. School shootings have been happening more and more because the punishment is not a punishment at all. It is a slap on the wrist. A true punishment could not be given to the students from Columbine since they killed themselves. In the second school shooting, the students involved should have been put on death row without a chance for parole no matter what their age. Until an example is made of these students doing these unspeakable crime, it will continue to happen. This boy will get off with no punishment because the bleeding hearts will say he didn't know what he was doing. Give me a break. Paddleing is on the books for Joplin schools. They just don't do it for fear of lawsuits. I say bring it on. If parents don't want other people teaching their children lifes lessons, then they need to do it. I always spanked my kids when they go in trouble at the school--no matter what level. The elementary teachers would tell me how they acted that day and I would discipline them accordingly. I DID NOT BEAT THEM. I made them think about what they would get if they acted up. The teachers who had my children loved me because I was more than just talk. They knew I was serious about teaching them manners, morals, and respect for authority. We all need to push for paddling to be put back in Joplin Schools.

For a second I thought this was some obscure perjorative slang for a hippy school.

Oh, you better believe that's a-paddling.