Girls - What Does "Romance" Mean To You?

For real answers? Are there no women left on ILE? Or none who want to talk about anything... "genuine" any more?

Speaking for myself, I can only say that I'm not interested in flowers and chocolates. (Flowers... god know what the airmiles on those things are! And chocolates - are you trying to make me fat?) But the idea that Romance is about spontaneous gestures is quite a good one.

Or they don't even have to be *spontaneous* - more just things that express that not only has your date been thinking about you, but also that they have been paying attention to those qualities which make you unique, attractive, etc.

That's the thing - women are all different. But I think we all like a man who listens to us, and knows/understands us enough to hazard a guess as to what works for us.

Not a lot... sorry, am I allowed on this thread?

cf engagement rings, for instance, or even marriage itself

Do any women actually expect the one size fits all routine of cliches? Because I don't know that I've ever actually met one.

Or is it men, so confused by women, who expect a one size fits all quick fix - if you do X, Y, and Z, then you will get romance - meaning pussy, analz, whatever etc. ?

I was very confused for a moment, Tracer, and trying to figure out why you had to deny being a border collie.

The thing about stereotypes is there is always some truth to them or people wouldn't use them to generalize. So yes there will always be someone who matches it.

favorite romantic gestures from my man: whisking me away to Marfa, bringing me a melted box of my favorite ice cream after a many-hour drive, buying me one of my fave pro's skate decks. *sigh*

The spontaneous bits can be nice too - I once sent a "love you/miss you" telegram via Western Union (since they no longer do telegrams it's something of an artifact now).

Also, demonstrations of love in front of peers/family/etc can be romantic, e.g. show up to her workplace with a picnic lunch.

My wife's a bit left of center (we eloped to Alaska to get married after all) but I think her sense of what's romantic is classical.

Awwwww, that's totally romantic - and yeah, that last bolded bit is completely U&K.

Also, demonstrations of love in front of peers/family/etc can be romantic, e.g. show up to her workplace with a picnic lunch.

This might be a cultural thing, but please note this is *not* a one size fits all gesture. I think I'd die of embarrassment if a date made a huge demonstrative in front of peers or family or *especially* work colleagues. But that might be the repressed British in me speaking.

Otherwise, someone already said it: ATTENTION. Focus. Seeing you clearly (or as you like to think is "clearly") and going out of one's way to act on that knowledge.

Yeah, in fact I almost qualified that one - it does really depend on the person, and there's a thin line between romantic and embarrassing. My wife is a little shy but she likes things like that anyway. And we're both from New Jersey, so haha!

A: Depends :)

and otto too. ;)

I think men respond just as well as women do to feeling wanted, appreciated, validated, whatever. In a relationship, surely both partners need to be made to feel good about themselves from time to time.

The other evening, as we were pottering around the kitchen together, Friends was on the TV in the background, with that episode where Chandler was upset after a break-up with Janice, and Rachel was feeding him ice cream because that's what chicks always have when they're upset.

It suddenly occurred to me - and so I said it out loud - that in all the years The Bloke and I have known each other, he has never behaved in a way which has ever made me comfort-eat ice cream. It made him positively beam with happiness to be told that.

Sometimes it's the little stuff which means the most :)

Though I suppose I left the question open enough to encompass all permutations.

But yeah, comfort eating ice cream. Totally. Ben and Jerrys. Two spoons. Life seems somehow better.

i have NO idea how CS Sauce relates to this, but it's nice to see it mentioned on such a girly thread.

Cherry Garcia.

kk, i'm gone.

1. He had a sweater hand-made for me for Christmas one year; he chose the pattern and the yarn.

2. He bought me a gift (a book, so not a big thing, but very nice) and hid it in the house while I was sleeping. When I woke up I found Post-It notes with clues around the house that I needed to follow to find it. It was kind of cute and funny.

if i'd tried that with my ex-roommate she would've taken a tire iron to my skull.

my friend did this recently for her boyfriend, i thought it was sweet too.

(xpost)

I don't think he does either of these things with the express intent of "being romantic," but they have that effect.

haha, more like a dream!

A friend's husband gave her the most unromantic possible Christmas gift a few years ago: a set of the most expensive placemats available at Target. This guy is supersmart, so possibly other men could make this mistake. So unless your S.O. is a placemat fanatic, do not go this route for any occasion.

(xpost) An iron. Wow. Well, the right person probably would love that (apparently your mother, Laurel!).

I hate ironing.

And yeah - Dan has the right idea. (Possibly expressed in the phrase, "go one better.")

Dan, FYI, your wife really likes the "Mission to Mars" room at Fantasy Suites.

(xpost: I know, I've got the tape.)

On the other hand, would you please move back to Minnesota? I will do your crazy piles of laundry, including folding, if you will iron for me.

Also, I love your mother.

My friend who got the placemats took them back to Target and exchanged them for some jewelry. Her husband - who has a huge ego - was a bit crushed.

(xpost)

Dan - do you know that I am a lip balm addict (as well as lipstick)? You don't think your Mom would adopt me? (And consider switching to Burt's Bees...)

perhaps also personal? gifts that relate to chores can be a drag.

(xpost to Fluffy Bear)

I have gotten much better at the whole folding the clothes thing, but I am definitely the designated ironer in our house. My gf can't iron to save her life. She bats her eyes at me and her voice gets all girlish and then she asks me to iron her shirt or a skirt or something - it's not exactly romantic.

I don't. I just find it confusing. :-( I suppose now I'm starting to see the anti-Balkanisation stance, when neutral threads are taken over by Balkans I'm not part of.

Yes. Evidence that the man is thinking about you and appreciating you, and understands that this appreciation should be expressed every now and then, not just assumed.

but aren't we talking about the forms that that evidence and expression should take? and are there certain forms of evidence and expression from which people "just assume" meaning?

Yes, because the "appreciation" statement you quoted above is completely correct and pretty much a given. There's nowhere to really go from there except concrete examples.

As for just assuming, for some people (traditionally men of a certain age and generation) the act of working a soul-killing, unfulfilling job all day in order to bring home regular paychecks is a kind of evidence...but it's not particularly romantic and it's actually terribly sad and unnecessary outside of, say, the gold mines of Cripple Creek, Colorado, and it would take a pretty grimly understanding kind of wife to accept that sacrifice and consider it "evidence" enough.

LE CUET!!!!!

Also, spontaneous actions can create a body of reference for future romance.

seriously, are these a universal aphrodesiac?
it's well documented that i would trade all i have and myself as well for a decent g.c.s.

CHRIS, WHO TOLD YOU THE SEAN PENN THEORY?? Was it me? I can't remember.

i've known this since i was 12.

xpost yeah, of course, romance must be experienced through the agency of another, that's what relationships and romance and blahbittyblahblah are for god's sake, I mean the statement makes utterly no sense as it is phrased.

Fair enough, but I don't think the question implies that and I see no reason why the female perspective isn't legitimate or that targeting the question specifically to women isn't legitimate.

The really interesting question that you bring up would be to ask the ladies what they feel is romantic for THEM to do for their SOs.

Analz.

In other words, if we take "romance" as (mostly) defined in this thread, then of course men like it, if "it" is something unique to them or their partners. Finding the right lever to move a person is the whole POINT!

My mother thought it was incredibly sweet and said so. The thing is, she only found the watch. When she finally discovered the note about three years later (!), she pretty much burst into tears, she was so touched.

There's just something about unexpected romantic gestures even if it's three years late.

*Obviously no one I'd ever intended on marrying. That would be foolish.

But then again, this might just be because when I was younger, if boys gave me any kind of gifts, my mum would make me give them back, because in some old fashioned way she thought they were trying to buy my favours. (Bear in mind, my mum grew up in a country where you can buy a wife with 3 goats or whatever.)

So I guess, to this day, I'm still suspicious of *things* as tokens of esteem or affection.

I would totally marry him.

3 goats, eh?

I basically agree with this, though like I said there are exceptions and it really does depend on what it is, what is the circumstance, so on and so forth--I mean going and purchasing something thoughtful or that you know the other person would like to surprise them for it IS an expression, just as much as going and making someone dinner or writing them a song would also be an expression. It all very much depends, I think. There are some guys (and girls and hermaphrodites) who just blank out and go grab some random "romantic" trinket because they forgot your birthday or anniversary or CHRISTMAS etc, and that ISN'T romantic or thoughtful at all--but I think you can tell the difference between the two gestures as well.

Though I am lolling at your mom making you give back gifts to people :D

My mum totally freaked out and made me give it back. I guess leather was just too close to goatskin or something. :-D

It's more thoughtful than no gesture at all. It's not the thing but its appropriateness, its well-suitedness to the receiver, its reference to a little-known or secret affinity, that makes it special.

I guess I'm just bad at romance, fullstop.

Actually, you're probably right, Ally. That's exactly the reason sexual favors were invented.

However, giving her a signed first edition of The Oresteia would be quite the coup.

plus they have the added effect of when you find said notes 6 years later you realize that each and every word contained in them was just as much of a lie as your previous 5 years had been.

and that might not make sense either for the same reason.

good point. not that i have a file or anything.

How is this particularly romantic? Isn't this just the stuff that successful relationships are made of?

I think there's a difference between romance--which could be the butterflies attendant upon early stages of a relatioship, or something that two people share, as feelings, and romantic, which seems to conjure up images of Hallmark cards and roses and candlelight dinners and so forth. Those things wouldn't be particularly romantic to me because they seem so obvious. I guess romantic could be standing on top of wind-swept moor with someone after you've just climbed a long trail to the top but then a dead rat is spotted and the moment is lost.

right. the person in the thread question, and perhaps other people on the thread, seem to be using 'romance' to mean something other than romance, or at least in a sort of ironic or negative fashion.

It's easy to get stuck in a routine when in a relationship, and believe that it's just the natural order to live with someone, sleep with them, do social actitivies together, etc. Romance is when one person recognizes that there's something special about the person he or she is with and reaches above that routine to express it to the other, who is hopefully also jolted out of the routine and happier for it.

Could be anything from something that's said in passing that betrays a deep understanding of your s.o. that no one else has to a fancy dinner or present.

i.e. anal

This is about 75% my worst nightmare and 25% what I want. (Which I suppose makes sense.)

Romance is when one person recognizes that there's something special about the person he or she is with and reaches above that routine to express it to the other, who is hopefully also jolted out of the routine and happier for it.

This is completely OTM -- or at least, anyone who I'd ever want to be with would see things this way.

And I don't think anyone's out of line in pointing out that it's very easy for it to seem like the burden of "acting romantic" is primarily on men, and that it can seem tied to having to spend $$$. The gender studies angle there is obvious. But as has been pointed out, I don't think most people here are in the "diamonds-are-forever" crowd, so pointing it out is probably a little redundant.

http://www.openplease.com/cat-images-lg/FF967.jpg

These actions usually just subtly indicate thoughtfulness - even just asking if you would like a cup of tea and then making it for you after a long day, or taping a programme they thought you might enjoy. The everyday sensitivities to what you are like, rather than a SPECIAL OCCASION, MUST BE BRILLIANT, which can seem kind of forced, especially if this is NOT what you are like. Of course, this is a personal p.o.v so feel free to disregard/challenge it.

i'm a born-n-bred yankee and i like the trad romance crap too (creative expressions of it, anyway). guys never think i do because i'm all tomboyish or whatever, but i spend so little time caring about my gender in my day-to-day life that i actually do enjoy some sort of acknowledgment that i'm female.

The thing is, in today's blah blah disposable, past-paced, over-mediated, hypersexual culture, where there seems to be no such thing as a straightforward "Relationship" any more, and everybody is getting bent out of shape about noyfriends, fuckbuddies, friends with benefits, NSA, and all the other shades of "let's pretend we're not in a Relationship" - I think that it is perfectly fair to come out and say, at the beginning of a relationship "I am interested in ROMANCE" and mean - I want all that nice stuff that successful relationships are made of, not some quasi-relationship Noyfriend.

But that is 100% *MY* interpretation, of the sort of thing *I* would say if I were to start dating again. And nothing to do with the woman in the question.

But if I had to choose I'd go for number 1 every time.

but when you use 'romance' in that fashion, isn't what you're really saying that you want something better than nothing? 'a little romance', or even the pretense of romance? and doesn't it diminish the concept to use it in that fashion?

One thing I like about the social circles I move in is that everyone is very upfront about what they want right from the start. They might change their mind occasionally about what sort of person they're looking for (I know I have), but they always make it very clear what they do and don't want.