WTF?: "Seinfeld"'s Michael 'Kramer' Richards in Weird-o-Rama Onstage Meltdown

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http://www.tmz.com/2006/11/20/kramers-racist-tirade-caught-on-tape/

Michael Richards exploded in anger as he performed at a famous L.A. comedy club last Friday, hurling racial epithets that left the crowd gasping, and TMZ has obtained exclusive video of the ugly incident.

Richards, who played the wacky Cosmo Kramer on the hit TV show "Seinfeld," appeared onstage at the Laugh Factory in West Hollywood. Kyle Doss, an African-American, told TMZ he and some friends were in the cheap seats and he was playfully heckling Richards when suddenly, the comedian lost it.

The camera started rolling just as Richards began his attack, screaming at one of the men, "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f***ing fork up your ass."

Richards continued, "You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherf**ker. Throw his ass out. He's a nigger! He's a nigger! He's a nigger! A nigger, look, there's a nigger!"

The crowd is visibly and audibly confused and upset. Richards responds by saying, "They're going to arrest me for calling a black man a nigger."

One of the men who was the object of Richard's tirade was outraged, shouting back "That's un-f***ing called for, ain't necessary."

After the three-minute tirade, it appears the majority of the audience members got up and left in disgust.

Attempts to reach Richards' reps were unsuccessful.

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:45 (eighteen years ago)

:-O

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:49 (eighteen years ago)

Favorite lines from Seinfeld?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:49 (eighteen years ago)

oh stanley spudowski, how low you've fallen

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:49 (eighteen years ago)

Who's worse?
( ) Michael Richards
( ) Mel Gibson

[Vote]

― Good-Time Slim, Uncle Doobie, and the Great 'Frisco Freak-Out (sixteen sergeants, Monday, 20 November 2006 17:50 (eighteen years ago)

also, I can't watch this while I'm at work, but at least one person in the comments section of that post seems convinced that this is not actually Kramer

― Good-Time Slim, Uncle Doobie, and the Great 'Frisco Freak-Out (sixteen sergeants, Monday, 20 November 2006 17:52 (eighteen years ago)

well, it was an ectomorphic blur. and it sounded like him about 5% of the time.

― GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:55 (eighteen years ago)

Favorite lines from Seinfeld?
-- Alex in SF (clobberthesauru...), November 20th, 2006. (tracklink)

To be fair, I think Richard's racist tirade should have its own thread (i.e. this one) and not take over the "Favorite Lines From Seinfeld" thread. In the grand scheme of things i guess it doesn't matter much, but it seems a shame to wreck an otherwise humourous thread because one of the former actors of the show is now proving himself to be an asshole.

― shorty (shorty), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

14. Guys, that's NOT Michael Richards. The guy that was yelling back at him thought he was on Seinfeld for some reason. Its NOT him.

Posted at 9:02AM on Nov 20th 2006 by Michael Richards

― Edward III (edward iii), Monday, 20 November 2006 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

Is Richards a racist?
Yes 60%
No 40%
Total Votes: 32,983

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:00 (eighteen years ago)

he was playfully heckling Richards
Just joshin the cracker along.

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:01 (eighteen years ago)

It's definitely him; there have been several local L.A. news reports about it, and about how he was co-headlining with a very freaked-out Paul Rodriguez.

YouTube link, in case the TMZ video player farts out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UomfLKQr57U

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:02 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, ha - I just noticed the Posted at 9:02AM on Nov 20th 2006 by Michael Richards joke there...

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:03 (eighteen years ago)

The comments on these video threads are just absolutely insane.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:05 (eighteen years ago)

On YouTube and TMZ obv.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:06 (eighteen years ago)

The "But... but... someone also used the word 'cracker'!" defense.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:08 (eighteen years ago)

Which is a shame because it's impossible to logically draw the conclusion that he's a racist from the incomplete and edited piece of tape that only runs two-and-a-half minutes

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:11 (eighteen years ago)

soulsimplistic (36 minutes ago)
Sad. Dude is obviously going through something in his life, and like "most people" feels compelled to rip into others, and attempt to exploit thier pain to offset his own. In this case, it was kinda like Lennie in the story "Of mice and men", when he was trying to handle the rabbit (his career), and strangled it to death.
(Reply) (Mark as spam)

What on earth does this mean?

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:11 (eighteen years ago)

The use of the N-word is obv. inexcusable, but I do agree with that columnist that we're missing a lot of the context here.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:11 (eighteen years ago)

seems to start off as just using the word for pure shock (many people in the audience roffling pretty hard as if they get this) but way OTT and when he uses it again after the heckler calls him cracker in retaliation it all goes v scary. it's that follow-up abuse rather than the initial outburst that seems more damning.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:11 (eighteen years ago)

there is no context for this. dude's a fucking monster. xpost

― ^@^ (map), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:12 (eighteen years ago)

Or maybe I just don't like the idea of branding people with a capital R.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

seems more like he used the word and then went for the "FUCKIN EDGY" thing as soon as he realized what he was doing.

― GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

I don't think there is a "context" that would excuse references to lynching audience members??? That's just me, though.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

I notice none of these "oh the other guy said cracker, people, where is the outrage" focus on this choice bit: "The camera started rolling just as Richards began his attack, screaming at one of the men, "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f***ing fork up your ass.""

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

anyway, he's not necessarily a racist, he could just be a giant, stupid asshole.

― GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:14 (eighteen years ago)

"this guy's going nuts"

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:14 (eighteen years ago)

Ally OTM. I mean come on, the guy is heckling, gosh ask him to leave and then you get into it okay, but that line isn't okay in any context.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:15 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, the lynching thing is disgusting.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:15 (eighteen years ago)

"you're not funny. that's why you're a reject. never had no shows, never had no movies. seinfeld, that it."

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:15 (eighteen years ago)

anyway, he's not necessarily a racist, he could just be a giant, stupid asshole.

I'm going to go with 'he is racist'

I mean, plenty of contexts in which you can say, "OK, he has some prejudiced mentality but i wouldn't go so far as to say RACIST" or something like that. But this is pretty much definitive

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:16 (eighteen years ago)

any comedian worth shit has a whole toolbox of heckler kills to use. plus if you're making ppl laugh u don't get heckled amirite.

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

The "fork in your ass" part is what bothers me most. He seems to be speaking wistfully of the halcyon days of overt white supremacy when a black man could be lynched for heckling a white comedian.

xpost - Ally, John, et al OTM

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:18 (eighteen years ago)

"you're not funny. that's why you're a reject. never had no shows, never had no movies. seinfeld, that it."

richards IS totally pwned here. i do wonder what the guy's original heckles were because this is pretty hard to beat.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:18 (eighteen years ago)

I think I saw some movie he was in, that involved a trial, but i can't remember it for the life of me.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:19 (eighteen years ago)

from the mel gibson thread:

"I acted like a person completely out of control when I was arrested, and said things that I do not believe to be true"

I myself when arrested carry on about the sun revolving around the earth.

-- Beth Parker (marthasminion...) (webmail), July 31st, 2006 8:16 AM. (Beth Parker) (link)

― ^@^ (map), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:20 (eighteen years ago)

yeah the 50 years ago hanging from a tree thing is the worst part

― Smegma Pi (plsmith), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:21 (eighteen years ago)

richards IS totally pwned here. i do wonder what the guy's original heckles were because this is pretty hard to beat.

i liked him on fridays

― the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:22 (eighteen years ago)

What on earth does this mean?

I don't know but I'm laughing anyway.

I am also laughing at anyone who thinks there's mitigating context to this nonsense.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:23 (eighteen years ago)

clearly he's attempting to revive his career by copying the Borat formula

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:23 (eighteen years ago)

he's reflecting the racist that lies inside ALL OF US, don't you see!!!!!!!!!

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:24 (eighteen years ago)

ARGH:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/83-11202006-744776.html

― ^@^ (map), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:25 (eighteen years ago)

He IS making me recognize how many people are racist morons, but i'm not really laughing.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

perhaps this wasn't richards at all but dr. martin van nostrum

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

Later Richards told CNN, off camera, that he had ‘made amends’ for his outburst, but refused to give details.

maybe he stuck a fork up his own ass?

Pitts, who was not one of the hecklers, added: ‘He didn’t say sorry to me. He offended everyone in the room that night. He needs to make a public apology.’

Comic Paul Rodriguez, who was also on the bill, added: ‘Once the word nigger comes out of your mouth, you have a whole lot of explaining to do.’

Richards, was back on the Laugh Factory stage on Saturday night.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:27 (eighteen years ago)

Like I said, I don't think the context excuses the racism, I just don't like the way a two-minute video clip automatically prompts everyone to brand him a RACIST, end of story. Then again, I don't think that sucking dick makes a dude gay, so I think I'm just anti-essentialist when it comes to shit like this. What he DID was definitely racist.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:27 (eighteen years ago)

Comic Paul Rodriguez, who was also on the bill, added: ‘Once the word nigger comes out of your mouth, you have a whole lot of explaining to do.’

haha, Rodriguez then realised his mistake and proceeded to do a whole lot of explaining himself.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

"you're not funny. that's why you're a reject. never had no shows, never had no movies. seinfeld, that it."
richards IS totally pwned here. i do wonder what the guy's original heckles were because this is pretty hard to beat.

-- 2 american 4 u (n...), November 20th, 2006.

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree there. Although I think it was a combo of writing and the entire cast that made the show so successful, I think the Kramer character was near or at the top for ability to make people laugh. Being typecast because you played a certain character so well doesn't mean you are an 'unfunny' comedian.

Asshole racist? Evidently. Not funny outside of that hateful context? No.

― shorty (shorty), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

perhaps this wasn't richards at all but dr. martin van nostrum

no, this is obviously the work of H.E. Pennypacker

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

john, you're nuts

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:29 (eighteen years ago)

i was quoting from chortle.co.uk article just fyi

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:29 (eighteen years ago)

The picture with that article DEFEINITELY made me chortle!

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:31 (eighteen years ago)

i don't think jaymc is necessarily wrong, there's something to be said for witholding judgement, but:

Or maybe I just don't like the idea of branding people with a capital R. = Or maybe I just don't like the idea of branding people with a capital N.

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

"Just because he murdered someone doesn't mean he's necessarily a murderer."

WTF to that logic?

― jonviachicago (jonviachicago), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tmz.com/media/2006/11/photo_gallery_200x200.jpg

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

more random comments fun (on usa today article):
I think the hecklers got what they deserved. I saw one of them in an interview and he was trying to come off so innocent like he couldn’t do any wrong. He kept going on about an apology and how much it hurt him. I'm surprised he didn’t ask for reparations.
Posted by: Rob N DC | Nov 20, 2006 12:38:36 PM

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

jaymcs right maybe he's just bipredjudicial

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

I think what he meant to say was, "Keep acting like that, asshole. That's why people are racist." But, it came out, "Look! There's a nigger! A nigger!"

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

any guesses as to how NYPost handles this one?

KKKramer!!!!

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

or kkkurious

xpost

― ^@^ (map), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

KKKramer!!!!

i was tempted to do a lame zing abotu Richards having appeared in the movie Coneheads

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:34 (eighteen years ago)

ban nude spock

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

haha I knew someone would have trouble handling that Seinfeldian observational comedy.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:36 (eighteen years ago)

Well, if calling someone a "n*gger" doesn't automatically make someone capital-R-racist, how about invoking centuries of brutal, gruesome race-based violence as a method of silencing a heckler?

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:36 (eighteen years ago)

"you're not funny. that's why you're a reject. never had no shows, never had no movies. seinfeld, that it."

not true! he had 8 episodes shot of The Michael Richards Show in 2000. he also had bit parts in Coneheads and Airheads so therefore that heckler jerk is just downright wrong.

― ath (ath), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:37 (eighteen years ago)

This picture is a necessity if this thread is to go on any further:
http://www.allthingsyank.com/uhf15/stanleybw.jpg

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:38 (eighteen years ago)

whoever said michael richards has no career has never seen any films or television ever

― the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:39 (eighteen years ago)

This embarrassing social gaffe will no doubt inspire Larry David for an episode of next season's Curb Your Enthusiasm.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

The surprising development in the aftermath is Paul Rodriguez, spokesman for Racial Dignity in Entertainment.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

I still like the image of him accidentally pummeling his career into a pulp.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

Also Morbs OTM!

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:41 (eighteen years ago)

You're right, Al, I don't like the idea of branding people with a capital N, either.

"Just because he murdered someone doesn't mean he's necessarily a murderer."

This is different. A murderer is defined as someone who has murdered, and that's a fact that's easily proven most of the time on account of the victim being dead.

A racist is someone who discriminates against those of another race, or merely believes in the inferiority of another race. But we can't always prove someone's belief unless the person totally owns up to it, and we can always argue about what counts as discrimination, and/or how much of it is sufficient to definitively incriminate someone.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:42 (eighteen years ago)

We can do that if you privilege semantics over common courtesy, it's true.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:43 (eighteen years ago)

Of course there is a difference in my example, but your questionable logic still stands. I mean, Christ, the guy invokes not only the N-word, but graphic lynching refrences too - what more do you need to be convinced that he's a racist?

― jonviachicago (jonviachicago), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:45 (eighteen years ago)

jay that's bullshit. everyone is, at heart, a decent liberal, so they have to "prove" their inner life is fucked up by [x] vicious outbursts or actions? [x-1] not being indication enough?

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

John, I agree that people who use a litmus test "i'm not racist, i don't HATE..." etc are stupid but nonetheless this is pretty clear cut i think.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

I think he totally pwned up to it.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:47 (eighteen years ago)

Sometimes racists are probably against specific types of culture, not race.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

...

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

yeah i think jaymcs got a point in his general definition but this kinda shit is the exception that proves the rule & not worth goin all captain save-a-cosmo for

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:50 (eighteen years ago)

jaymc, I don't think identifying someone as capital-R racist in order to absolve oneself from ever again thinking about subtle, pervasive racism and one's own complicity in it is a good idea. but when someone loses their shit and starts going off about lynching you can pretty much be sure that you've tapped into the shit that they secretly believe. I don't really think your anti-essentialism is relevant here.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

Of course the context matters, unless you're the type who thinks words only have one meaning, and can only be used in one way, and wave your little fan whenever you're offended.

The tape started when he started his attack, so we don't get to hear the heckler's attack, which could either mitigate or damn Richards. We don't know what was said, but if the heckler was being racist, there is a point to be made: less than 50 years ago, black people were being hunted down in the US because of racists and racism, and now this guy's being casually racist? Here, what if he calls you a nigger? Does that make you realise what's you're doing?

On my first watching of it, that's what I interpreted it as, at least, because that was all that really made sense. All the other alternatives do damn him as a racist, but doing that on an out-of-context 2 minute clip is a bit much.

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

From a purely practical standpoint, who fucking cares if Michael Richards is a "racist" or an "asshole" or "dangerously socially inept" or "incredibly mean-spirited"? What precisely does defending him gain us in terms of positive results? Does it help our understanding of racial differences? Does it give startling new insight into issues that trouble these modern times? Does it do anything besides allow you to feel superior about not judging someone desperately crying out to be judged?

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

...

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

Does it do anything besides allow you to feel superior about not judging someone desperately crying out to be judged?

O-T-M

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

I think the weirdest thing about outbursts like this is how little it takes to set someone off; MR's been a standup on and off since the 70's, you'd think it would take more than a heckler to make him blow up and say something that, whether he believes it or not, clearly has career-ending consequences

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:53 (eighteen years ago)

What precisely does defending him gain us in terms of positive results?
It takes us away from the incredibly short-sighted thinking that "he said X therefore he is Y regardless of anything no shutup it's totally clear he is Y OMG"

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

You are a moron.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:55 (eighteen years ago)

From a purely practical standpoint, who fucking cares if Michael Richards is a "racist" or an "asshole" or "dangerously socially inept" or "incredibly mean-spirited"?

Dan, this is exactly my point. What he did was horrible, but people here seemed overly interested in now being able to call him a RACIST.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:55 (eighteen years ago)

Why do you give a shit, Jay? What's your stake in arguing that he's not? Semantics?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

yes, stet, we all read your cracker-reference up thread.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

I guess it's possible to use racist language with the intent to piss off someone but not really believe in what you're saying, which makes you a total asshole but not necessarily a commited racist.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

I don't care what you call him, dude is scary.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

"overly interested"? dude, people have been saying a lot of things. You'd have a point if us calling him racist was in some way shutting down discussion, but its not.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

Yeh, I mean, I'm Britishes so clearly don't have yr cultural sensititvies on this one, but fuck me is it always so knee jerk whenever anyone says nigger?

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

As a comedian, aren't you supposed to make the heckler look like the asshole? A bold anti-heckling gambit by Mr. Rchards. Uh.

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:58 (eighteen years ago)

it's not "shortsighted" to fucking characterize a situation while discussing it! that's what conversation is.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:58 (eighteen years ago)

i'd expect this sort of thing from saget...

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:58 (eighteen years ago)

racism is the new sex tape

― cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

kramer is one of those zany improv dudes, right? that shit can get out of hand real quick.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

unless you're the type who thinks words only have one meaning, and can only be used in one way, and wave your little fan whenever you're offended.

really, guys. put down those fans! just a bit of lynching humor - let's all be cool.

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, seriously. stet, are you crazy?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

xpost jaymc I don't think that is actually the case at all. It kind of seems like you're trying to derail the thread into a "we all must argue that he is a racist because someone is saying he might not be," though.

xpost stet, what exactly are you not getting about the fact that A) that's an inappropriate word B) the majority of us are much more bothered, and have explicitly said so, by the fact that he coupled this word with a straight up reference to lynching? What on earth could the hecklers be saying that you honestly believe this is something that could be "mitigated"?

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

I'm surprised [they] didn’t ask for reparations.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (eighteen years ago)

It's not just the word itself though, it's the vitriol with which he says it. I am British too, and I think it's pretty obvious he's a racist, and a very stupid one at that.

Too many xposts to count

― chap who would dare to welcome our new stingray masters (chap), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (eighteen years ago)

isn't motherfucker a 33rd degree mason?

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:00 (eighteen years ago)

i think attempts to defend Richards are more likely to be based on 'but this is hilarious Kramer guy, please no he can't be a racist!' denial rather than anything else. but then if Richards was known as an asshole generally (as was douchebag Gibson) before this indeed why bother?

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:01 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, I am pretty certain I've read that he is a mason.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:02 (eighteen years ago)

I think Richards was just trying to hurt these people's feelings. If he instead said, "Hahahah, laugh it up you ignorant fucks!" that wouldn't be racist, right? But, would anyone call the hecklers racist if they responded, "Shut up, you god damn cracker! Get off the stage, white boy! You suck!" Probably not, right?

If you call someone a redneck, you're lumping him in with a steretype that is intented to hurt him. Not racist, but cultural. Half the people who call people the N-word in places like NY or LA are talking specifically about selfish, loud, angry, belligerent, macho assholes. From what little we see here, it sounds as if these hecklers have been acting like selfish, loud, angry, belligerent, macho assholes long enough to make him flip out.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:03 (eighteen years ago)

Why do you give a shit, Jay? What's your stake in arguing that he's not? Semantics?

I just think that immediate [behavior = identity] judgments are dangerous. In this particular case, there's a good chance that he probably is a racist, just like there was a good chance, upon the revelation of Mark Foley's improprieties, that he was gay. But the kneejerkism makes me uncomfortable.

This is no longer worth arguing, though.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (eighteen years ago)

I guess it's possible to use racist language with the intent to piss off someone but not really believe in what you're saying, which makes you a total asshole but not necessarily a commited racist.

numerous ilxers (some banned, some not banned) to thread...

but Richards IS way over that here, in the end

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (eighteen years ago)

Well... what sort of heckling would justify telling someone that fifty years ago, he would have been lynched for his comments?

xpost - Ally OTM again.

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:05 (eighteen years ago)

People do funny things when they're put on the spot.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:06 (eighteen years ago)

nude spock droppin science

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:06 (eighteen years ago)

I just think that immediate [behavior = identity] judgments are dangerous.

don't you think this is more a case of belief than behavior, though?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (eighteen years ago)

did you guys know that, like, words are just words?? i bet i just blew your mind

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not sure what I'm not getting, but it's definitely something.
A) that's an inappropriate word
Yeh, it's a word often used to offend/insult/belittle, but does that make it unsayable?
B) the majority of us are much more bothered, and have explicitly said so, by the fact that he coupled this word with a straight up reference to lynching?
I don't like that much either, and it was definitely an abuse of stage-power, and mean-spirited. But I can think of at least one reason why he could have said it without being a racist, and am confused by all the people who think it's cast iron without knowing what the heckler said. Are there no racist things that can be said by black people to white people?

what sort of heckling would justify telling someone that fifty years ago, he would have been lynched for his comment
Did he say that, or did he say that fifty years ago, he would have been getting lynched? It's not that he's saying "you'd have got lynched for saying that, back when we whites ruled the world".

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:07 (eighteen years ago)

what does he say before he leaves the stage? something like: "words words we still have words" or something. was he trying to be lenny bruce? i think it probably was something like that and it got out of hand and he's just not funny or quick enough to make it work. dude is like 80.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago)

kramer is one of those zany improv dudes, right? that shit can get out of hand real quick.

oh noes what if he uses 'i had to say it so many times because it was improv and i had several minutes left!' as an excuse!

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago)

WARNING: WE HAVE PASSED THE EVENT HORIZON. BE PREPARED TO REHASH EVERY ILE RACISM DISCUSSION EVER, ON LOOP, AD INFINITUM.

for fuck's sake, people.

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago)

kramer is one of those zany improv dudes, right? that shit can get out of hand real quick.

"OK guys, I want a suggestion for a racial epiphet you hear everyday..."

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Monday, 20 November 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago)

coon!

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

oh wait

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

EVERYday

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

isn't motherfucker a 33rd degree mason?

-- Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (evi...), November 20th, 2006 1:00 PM. (sexyDancer) (later) (link)

He's only got 32 degrees, but close enough.

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/1815/marsellos1zt1.jpg

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

people do not funny things when put on the spot for being not funny, not funny.

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

Are there no racist things that can be said by black people to white people

!!!

there is nothing equivalent to threatening lynching because there was no time in American history where black Americans were in a position to make a regular practice of lynching white Americans. are you fucking kidding me?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

He probably said it because subconsciously he was trying to give an egomaniac a bit of an inferiority complex.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

don't you think this is more a case of belief than behavior, though?

I have no idea what Michael Richards believes.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

Whose Lynching Is It, Anyway?

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (eighteen years ago)

Well, NS, I'd buy your "People do stupid shit" argument if it was just him saying the word once, but to scream it over and over again and couple it with a lynching reference? I don't think that is particularly excusable as "funny things." That is, at best, completely bonkers.

xpost jesus christ, stet, no one said "blacks can't be racist," they're saying "What Michael Richards said is completely racist and unjustified."

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (eighteen years ago)

did you know black people can be racist too? FACT.

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (eighteen years ago)

i agree with jaymc. it's dangerous to call kramer a racist on the internet for screaming "YOU'RE A NIGGER!" at some guy nineteen times at the top of his lungs in a video on the internet.

― ath (ath), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (eighteen years ago)

"Yeh, I mean, I'm Britishes so clearly don't have yr cultural sensititvies on this one, but fuck me is it always so knee jerk whenever anyone says nigger?"

What the fucking hell? Are you brain-damaged or something? Did you watch the video? He said a hell of a lot more than just that!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:10 (eighteen years ago)

i wonder how long it took for the red light to go on

― cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:11 (eighteen years ago)

Apparently he's 33 now.

http://www.srmason-sj.org/web/journal-files/Issues/sep03/casalou.htm

Not that I have any idea what that's supposed to signify.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:12 (eighteen years ago)

What Michael Richards said is completely racist and unjustified.

I agree with this, for the record.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:12 (eighteen years ago)

One of the men who was the object of Richard's tirade was outraged, shouting back "That's un-f***ing called for, ain't necessary."

^^^ i love this part

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:12 (eighteen years ago)

a) the idea that this was an improv routine that 'got out of hand' is patently ridiculous
b) perhaps the people who are seeking an explanation for his actions other than that he is a "racist" are trying to do something other than "mitigate" his behavior?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:13 (eighteen years ago)

I know, seriously. most measured response to racial slurs ever.

xpost

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:13 (eighteen years ago)

jaymc, for the record, I understand your argument's theory, though I think it has no relevance to the case at hand.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:13 (eighteen years ago)

so you can be an object of someone's tirade as well as subject?

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:14 (eighteen years ago)

a) the idea that this was an improv routine that 'got out of hand' is patently ridiculous

people were just joking about this right?

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:14 (eighteen years ago)

my nitpicking knows no bounds!

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:14 (eighteen years ago)

he's not a racist, his lawyer is black!

http://www.1115.org/archives/jackie.jpg

― gear (gear), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:14 (eighteen years ago)

steve, don't bring grammar to this thread, the grammar threads are bad enough without their virus spreading.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:15 (eighteen years ago)

he seems like the sort of secretly bitter racist who occasionally explodes in a fit of i can't be the only one seeing this, these people don't know how to act!!!

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:15 (eighteen years ago)

What the fucking hell? Are you brain-damaged or something? Did you watch the video? He said a hell of a lot more than just that!

See, this is what I don't get. Is your experience so limited that you've never seen non-racist people behave this way? I know a guy from Texas who loves black people to death. When that racial transmogrifier was posted on ILX I put his picture through it and sent it to him. He said his dream of finally becoming a black man had come true. Etc. Yet, he will say some of the most racial shit you ever heard right to a black man's face and they will laugh together. He's a blues musician and I'd say 70% of his music is by black artists. But, that doesn't stop him from making chicken jokes while he watches a video of James Brown sweating his ass off.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:15 (eighteen years ago)

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5483/kramburgergg2.jpg

can someone photoshop neil hamburger in there?

― ath (ath), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago)

jaymc, I know you don't want to discuss this anymore, but saying you don't know what someone believes after they've had an outburst like Richards's=anti-essentialism at the point of absurdity.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago)

jaymc, for the record, I understand your argument's theory, though I think it has no relevance to the case at hand.

I don't think it's IRRELEVANT, but it's probably not worth making a big deal about.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago)

I know a guy from Texas who loves black people to death.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago)

that bobby ganush post is INSANE

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:17 (eighteen years ago)

Sorry, horseshoe, that's kinda how I roll.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:17 (eighteen years ago)

i watched it again. i really do think he was just trying to be "outrageous" and "edgy" and it backfired miserably. he tries to keep it going! and the whole "wait, they're leaving?" is crazy too. hey, i'm just trying to be funny, where ya going???

i mean, yeah, he probably is racist, most people are. but unfunny race shit is screamed in comedy clubs every night.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:17 (eighteen years ago)

it is irrelevant! sucking dick is not comparable to believing things that allow one to say the things Richards said!

xpost

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:17 (eighteen years ago)

my mind is blown

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:17 (eighteen years ago)

deej, that was intentional. you were baited.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:18 (eighteen years ago)

okay, sorry, didn't see your last post, jaymc. I'll let it go, but I kind of want to shake you right now.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:18 (eighteen years ago)

"Is your experience so limited that you've never seen non-racist people behave this way?"

Haha I guess so.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:19 (eighteen years ago)

(I mean the phrasing of that one line. The guy from Texas is a real dude)

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:19 (eighteen years ago)

i was at the laugh factory once and there was this shitty MC between acts. at one point he was joking with the audience about how "white people can't even say words that rhyme with n***** because we're afraid!" and then he noticed there were a couple of black dudes sitting in the second row off stage right and he noticeably blanched and started joking about people in l.a. who drive while talking on their cell phones or something.

― gear (gear), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:19 (eighteen years ago)

that guy is a loser. he has had no shows. no movies. not even seinfeld.

― cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

were they sitting on a white couch? ;-)

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

Ganush's post demonstrates exactly how tenuous a concept racist/non-racist is.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

haha I turned on the sound on my work computer just for this. He sounds like Carlos Mencia.

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

all this is just a symptom of a deeper problem: stand-up comedy!

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

i think awkward racial (racist?) humor from white standups is pretty par for the course, so i'm actually not at all surprised by this incident.

― gear (gear), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

is nothing equivalent to threatening lynching
He didn't threaten to lynch the guy. He screamed out that fifty years ago blacks were getting lynched.

"What Michael Richards said is completely racist and unjustified."
So nobody here can think it possible for him to be trying to point out racist heckling, using the terms of racism to display it? Sure he's a twat, and does it incredibly flat-footedly, but motivations matter. Or perhaps not.

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

ok you ARE an idiot.

― gear (gear), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

1. people have a god given right to heckle comedians they don't think are funny.
2. no doubt the audience was filled with seinfeld fans so heckling would probably come of like a religious offense (tho i guess the crowd in the vid didn't seem so)
3. no doubt michael richards has only seen audiences like that since forever.
4. if the heckler was white, he may have lost it a little ("the nerve!! who dares!?")
5. since the heckler was black, "omg, it's a big racial crime against me, kramer, you can make fun of me, but YOU'RE A NIGGER, i can't say that even if i wanted to! see??" richards MADE the situation racially charged by seeing the exchange racially and reacting like he'd been victimized racially, somehow. the black heckler didn't make it so by being black, or by heckling.

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

See, this is what I don't get.

Well put.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

if i called kramer anything i'd call him a shitty stand-up. he should stick to pratfalls. that fat-ass cracker kid from last comic standing baits people to no end and gets away with it. it's all in your delivery.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

If you think he's vile now, you should have seen Richards in that Diane Keaton film.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

fine, raised the specter of lynching. at the top of his voice. are you seriously telling me it makes a difference? I need to get out of this thread.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

BAN NUDE SPOCK

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:23 (eighteen years ago)

do not engage or acknowledge, ppl

― gear (gear), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

motivations matter. Or perhaps not.

They do matter, but I've come to understand that somehow we're able to intuit motivations simply from behavior.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

"Ganush's post demonstrates exactly how tenuous a concept racist/non-racist is."

You think that's what his post indicates? Because I think it's pretty irrelevant to this.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

stet, there is pretty much no indication in any report of this incident that the hecklers said anything racist until they were being called horrible things and then retorted by calling him a cracker. Where are you getting this information? Or are you just assuming this and deciding to go with it?

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

geoff is 100% otm, btw.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

reacting like he'd been victimized racially, somehow. the black heckler didn't make it so by being black, or by heckling.

OTM. He reacted like that, which makes me think he was being victimized. I could be wrong -- Americans have a good history of being right on how best to handle matters of race.

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

"Americans have a good history of being right on how best to handle matters of race."

??!?!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

The most telling part of the video (to me) is when he repeatedly shouts, "He's a n*****!" over and over, as if he expects everyone in the audience to say, "Oh, that's what it is! It's because he's black!" To me, that is evidence that he's gone in the head. He had these racist thoughts and was waiting to spew them, assuming that everyone would agree with him, because how could they not? That sort of mental isolation seems like an indication to me.

― Nathan P1p (hoyanathan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:26 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, that's charming.

xpost, Alex, he's being a douche, no worries.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:26 (eighteen years ago)

It's relevant to my point, Alex, since it unwittingly proves that racist/non-racist is not a cut-and-dry dichotomy.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:26 (eighteen years ago)

he reacted like that=he saw black faces and flipped out! come on! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:26 (eighteen years ago)

Where are you getting this information? Or are you just assuming this and deciding to go with it?
Yeh, like I said above -- there's no information either way. I'm assuming it because the reaction makes it seem like that was the case. Why else bring the race into it (unless you're a moronic racist)?

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:26 (eighteen years ago)

to me it was the that was uncalled for part that was most offensive of all - but is anyone complaining abt that, no!

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:27 (eighteen years ago)

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but I still can't figure out what the hell "hanging upside-down with a fork up your ass" is supposed to mean. Doesn't sound like any lynching I've ever seen... (lol south)

― Good-Time Slim, Uncle Doobie, and the Great 'Frisco Freak-Out (sixteen sergeants, Monday, 20 November 2006 19:27 (eighteen years ago)

there's nothing more charming than the English pretending to be better than anyone else wrt racism.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

"It's relevant to my point, Alex, since it unwittingly proves that racist/non-racist is not a cut-and-dry dichotomy."

Who the fuck is arguing it isn't?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

I mean seriously: the guy's a professional comedian, who talks on stage for a living. Is this the first time a black man has heckled him? Do you think he barely keeps the bubbling racism under control, but this one time all of a sudden the dark skin made it leap out?

Why do you think he did it? What makes it plausible?

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

WHO CARES

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

ps calling a white guy a cracker is not equivalent to calling a black guy a nigger

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

He didn't threaten to lynch the guy. He screamed out that fifty years ago blacks were getting lynched.

Not to mention that while the first part is technically correct, the second part rather explicitly isn't. He didn't merely reference lynching, he rather specifically used the word "we," the construction was very conspiratorial, like he expected the audience to agree with him.

xpost Alex, jaymc is kind of having his own private thread as established earlier. Also the fork thing is OTM, what a weird thing to say.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

maybe he's done shit like this before?

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

the pathology of the guy on the bus the other night who called the driver a slew of racial epithets when he missed his stop didn't keep me up at night either

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:30 (eighteen years ago)

WHO CARES
Sorry, right, string him up.

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:30 (eighteen years ago)

yeah the essence of his line was, "you're just lucky it's not fifty years ago".

― gear (gear), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:30 (eighteen years ago)

ps calling a white guy a cracker is not equivalent to calling a black guy a nigger

Is there some reason that cracker is not a racist term in your mind?

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:30 (eighteen years ago)

the construction was very conspiratorial, like he expected the audience to agree with him.
That's a good point.

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:31 (eighteen years ago)

ban nude spock

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:31 (eighteen years ago)

The history of race relations in America makes cracker not nearly as powerful as nigger.

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:31 (eighteen years ago)

See, he could have parlayed the heckle into an unfunny racial stereotype joke like "Black people be talking in theaters!" and it would have gone over to riotous laughter.

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:32 (eighteen years ago)

But, that doesn't stop him from making chicken jokes while he watches a video of James Brown sweating his ass off.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:33 (eighteen years ago)

Who the fuck is arguing it isn't?

Nobody explicitly, but the general tone of the thread implied it.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:33 (eighteen years ago)

5. since the heckler was black, "omg, it's a big racial crime against me, kramer, you can make fun of me, but YOU'RE A NIGGER, i can't say that even if i wanted to! see??" richards MADE the situation racially charged by seeing the exchange racially and reacting like he'd been victimized racially, somehow. the black heckler didn't make it so by being black, or by heckling.

OTM.

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:33 (eighteen years ago)

you guys, stet views all references to history and/or reality as quaint Americanisms.

i.e. context only matters wrt what the black dudes in the audience said, not, you know, America 1600-2006.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:33 (eighteen years ago)

ignore filter plz

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:33 (eighteen years ago)

Why on earth are you so interested in defending a dude who screams out about lynching and repeats the word "nigger" over and over again on stage, causing the entire audience to walk out? Again, I'm going to ask you: please explain to me what in the world some heckler said that would make that kind of tirade understandible? This is what I'm not getting. Some of the points you or jaymc have made might be good in a totally different discussion, not in one which you have a comedian known to be a complete asshole losing his marbles on stage and screaming racial epithets at the crowd.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

The history of race relations in America makes cracker not nearly as powerful as nigger.

I guess that's why everybody calls each other nigga as a term of endearment and nobody calls each other cracker.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

calling someone a cracker is just salty talk.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.alabama-florida-league.com/nafl_-_special_collections_-_murphy/Bob%20Murphy%20Atlanta%20Crackers%201942%20edited.jpg

ppl seriously need to stop acting like 'cracker' is a deeply offensive, hurtful term. they also need to stop acting like 'the abuses of political correctness' are far worse than centuries of slavery, lynching, rape and institutionalized bigotry, that the white man's suffered as much as the black man now cuz he has to be more creative about how he hates. also seriously seriously seriously folx: stop responding to racist trolls like nude spock, stet. and seriously seriously jaymc: stop doing nude spock's spin doctor work.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

Fuck, I was coming to drop freemasonry jpegs

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

some ilxor is gonna get mad rich one day writing a book on the pathology of longtime message board users

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

people call each other crackers all the freaking time.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

Plus, the way I've heard "cracker" used usually refers to racist white people - it's a word of scorn for a subset of white people - turning racism on the racists.

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

and ppl call each other crackers all the time. maybe not in dry cleaning joints in new jersey.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, it's so freaking common I've in fact never heard it in NYC.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:36 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beVAd_jmovE

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Monday, 20 November 2006 19:36 (eighteen years ago)

Dude, Blount, don't align me with Nude Spock -- we're saying completely different things.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:36 (eighteen years ago)

jaymc: characterizing a situation is not the same as upholding a binary opposition! I know you must understand this, because you've described things before.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:36 (eighteen years ago)

blount you ever seen the crackers HISTORICAL SITE plaque behind the whole foods on ponce??? for real, its like under a magnolia tree next to a loading dock - i only found it while dumpster diving!!

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:36 (eighteen years ago)

I've seen white kids calling each other nigga every day for the last 7 years, but I've never once seen a black man call another black man cracker.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:37 (eighteen years ago)

People call each other cracker all the time? I'm old and out of it.

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:37 (eighteen years ago)

I am going to start tearing my hair out. fucking high-speed internet connection.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

some ilxor is gonna get mad rich one day writing a book on the pathology of longtime message board users

That's like expecting Gilligan to some day make it off the island.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

ts: the white guy voice eddie murphy did in standup vs. birth of a nation vs. protocols of the elders of zion

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

but I've come to understand that somehow we're able to intuit motivations simply from behavior.

WTF. Now I want to shake you. How else do we intuit motivations? I'm not saying behavior and motivation are always inexorably linked, but are you suggesting that they never are? If someone in a car yells "N*gger!" at a black pedestrian, should we not intuit motivation from that behavior? And if we shouldn't, doesn't that suggest that we as a society should excuse harmful behavior if we aren't sure what motivated it?

horseshoe, you are not taking crazy pills. I have otmmed you about 50 times but there were so many xposts in between that what I was otmming got lost in the shuffle.

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

I've seen white kids calling each other nigga every day for the last 7 years

You've only been in the klan 7 years?

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

I've seen white kids calling each other nigga every day for the last 7 years, but I've never once seen a black man call another black man cracker.

OK that's actually pretty funny. That being said, I have A) seen this B) heard a hilarious story about a woman calling two Asian friends of mine "crackers" at a nail salon.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

"I've seen white kids calling each other nigga every day for the last 7 years, but I've never once seen a black man call another black man cracker."

?!?!

The stupidity on this thread is seriously mind-boggling.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

nude spock you are making doom patrol roll over in his grave

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

OK, it matters whose mouth is saying what to whom. White "wiggas" using the word amongst each other is different than blacks using it and most especially different than a white dude using it for a black dude while evoking the history of lynching.

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:40 (eighteen years ago)

i've seen photos of whites gathered around black male youths hanging from trees but never seen photos of blacks gathered around white male youth hanging from trees. why are blacks so racist???

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:40 (eighteen years ago)

The stupidity on this thread is seriously mind-boggling.

Fuckin' cracker.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:40 (eighteen years ago)

thanks, Jenny. like, how do you get through life if you don't intuit motivations from behavior?

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:40 (eighteen years ago)

Ambushed by unexpected douchepocalypse.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:41 (eighteen years ago)

why are there people like nude spock

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:41 (eighteen years ago)

Why on earth are you so interested in defending a dude who screams out about lynching and repeats the word "nigger" over and over again on stage, causing the entire audience to walk out?

I don't want to defend him, I don't even like him. I just don't want to call him a racist without knowing more. He did X, therefore he is Y and all Y are Z. Isn't that the same sort of thinking that led to lynchings in the first place?

The tape makes him look pretty guilty, but when I watched it appeared to me that the reaction was so outlandish something must have provoked it. I don't know what, but I noticed nobody's came up with any plausible motive for his behaviour except that he's a barely constrained dyed-in-the-wool racist who just had to see a black man to be tipped over the edge.

Perhaps that's true, but do you manage to hide it on stage every night for all these years?

stop responding to racist trolls like nude spock, stet
This is what I mean! Christ, if you're not in the majority knee-jerk must-be-racist camp, you are a racist? What?

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:41 (eighteen years ago)

apparently a friend of mine once got so angry with a redneck who lived nextdoor to her that in the middle of an argument she burst out calling him a coon

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:41 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not saying behavior and motivation are always inexorably linked, but are you suggesting that they never are?

Of course not. I'm just saying I'm bothered by the confidence with which people are ascribing motivation in this scenario.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:42 (eighteen years ago)

same girl who brought me back racist salt and pepper shakers from her trip to memphis

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:42 (eighteen years ago)

Beth OTM.

― horseshoe (horseshoe), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:43 (eighteen years ago)

Dudes, if there are any 'extenuating circumstances' that couuld POSSIBLY acquit Michael Richards I'm sure they'll come out at some point. So far though anyone saying he's not racist is doing some serious reaching.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:43 (eighteen years ago)

WOW

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:43 (eighteen years ago)

Which one is nude spock? Also j blount and deej. as otm as horseshoe and Ally.

How should we ascribe motivation, John? If you can't get it from behavior, where shall we go to determine it?

― Party Time Country Female (pullapartgirl), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:43 (eighteen years ago)

i've seen photos of whites gathered around black male youths hanging from trees but never seen photos of blacks gathered around white male youth hanging from trees. why are blacks so racist???

jblount, may I call you zztop? Please explain to me the relevance of yesteryear.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:44 (eighteen years ago)

you are a BAD troll! the mind boggles.

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:44 (eighteen years ago)

WHO LET ALL THIS RIFF RAFF INTO TEH ROOM?

― Bob Geldof Saves Africa (sexyDancer), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:44 (eighteen years ago)

(multi-xposts) I mean, it seems clear that dude had a serious wtf meltdown, but to say without a doubt that Richards is virulently racist to the core, that this incident exposes years of hidden, deep-seated racism on his part is just too much of a jump for me to make.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:44 (eighteen years ago)

step your troll game up son

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:44 (eighteen years ago)

The past is not dead. In fact, it's not even past. - faulkner

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:45 (eighteen years ago)

http://bestmessageboardever.com/board/style_images/1/folder_post_icons/icon27.gif

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:45 (eighteen years ago)

Please explain to me the relevance of yesteryear.

Well, son, let me tell you a little story.... It's called history.

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:45 (eighteen years ago)

So, the current must be even more alive, yes?

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

So. . . yes.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

Jenny: Nude Spock = Bobby Ganush.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

COUNTDOWN TO REHAB ANNOUNCEMENT IN 10 . . . 9 . . .8 . . .

― J (Jay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:47 (eighteen years ago)

This thread is so bizarre

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:47 (eighteen years ago)

how do you get through life if you don't intuit motivations from behavior?

Who tf cares what his motivation is? It's indifferent to me what flavor of racist he is, from common, garden variety clay-footed mere mortal to genocidal manaic. In this case, his behavior alone is contemptible and fatuous.

― M. White (Miguelito), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:47 (eighteen years ago)

How should we ascribe motivation, John? If you can't get it from behavior, where shall we go to determine it?

How about asking the person?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:47 (eighteen years ago)

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:47 (eighteen years ago)

, er, that he's a racist I mean.

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:48 (eighteen years ago)

"How about asking the person?"

Haha yeah cuz people are always honest about these things.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

M. White, that is basically what I think as well. And just because I don't care WHY he said it doesn't exactly mean I'm absolving someone who might've been trying to start a fight, either.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

which black comedian had/has the best white guy voice? pryor is the gold standard but my pick is eddie murphy

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

"you say there's a... burning sensation?"

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:50 (eighteen years ago)

How should we ascribe motivation, John? If you can't get it from behavior, where shall we go to determine it?

Our Father in Heaven. He knows what's in our Hearts.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:50 (eighteen years ago)

lol i was gonna start a rappers white guy voices thread once

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:52 (eighteen years ago)

If some non-caucasian angrily calls me a cracker, I'm naturally going to be offended. But, I suppose, I should just take a moment and think about history and feel good about myself, is that it?

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:52 (eighteen years ago)

geoff eddie murphy decidedly the king of white guy voice. by stet/nude spock logic btw eddie murphy's white guy voice is just as harmful and hateful and awful and resulted in as much misery and injustice as the protocols of the elders of zion and birth of a nation.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

Who tf cares what his motivation is? It's indifferent to me what flavor of racist he is,
The only reason I care(d) is because his motivation might not have been racist. That's why the WHY matters, because without even wondering about it you're saying "screaming nigger means you're a racist, no ifs or buts". Perhaps that's true. Fair enough, if so. Sorry if I'm harping this into trolling.

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/84/84iwhitelikeeddie.phtml

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

Wikipedia: "Richards performed the next night at the club without incident and stated that he feels sorry about his behavior and claims to have made amends."

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:54 (eighteen years ago)

jblount & Maria D on cracker: "You don't have the right to such an emotional response based on history! It's the science of racism!"

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:55 (eighteen years ago)

richards always has come off like an asshole irl. remember how pissed off he got at kaufman on fridays. whatta dick.

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:55 (eighteen years ago)

Who tf cares what his motivation is?

because it might increase your understanding of a problem

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:57 (eighteen years ago)

xpost wasn't that staged?

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:57 (eighteen years ago)

Are you quoting yourself?

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:57 (eighteen years ago)

"screaming nigger means you're a racist, no ifs or buts"

so you don't think that this is even slightly indicative of a problem? what kind of behavior would it take to alarm you? if it comes out that he ran into the audience with a rope and fork, would you change your mind?

― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:59 (eighteen years ago)

you can have any emotional response you like and as a fucking sociopath i'm sure you will but you can't pretend there's any context in which cracker is a deeply bigoted and offensive term without being either disengenous or ignorant. ilxor's get emotional when someone says 'golden grahams' to them so the cracker precedent's been set. just don't pretend it's something it's not.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:59 (eighteen years ago)

like i said, he's kind of a lousy comic. i still judge his rant in the context of a comedy club setting though. people often go to comedy clubs to be mock-offended/shocked. and plenty of people walk out of comedy clubs when they think an act sucks or is genuinely offensive. and obviously a lot of comedy is based on saying things that you aren't supoposed to say/wouldn't say out loud. kramer just blows at it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 19:59 (eighteen years ago)

which black comedian had/has the best white guy voice? pryor is the gold standard but my pick is eddie murphy

Eddie will always be my favorite.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:00 (eighteen years ago)

er, that was an x-post to something. i forget what's going on. x-post to chaki, i think!

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:00 (eighteen years ago)

This isn't my fault! Your Nana is in trouble because she went around town passing bad checks and pissed off the wrong person!

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:00 (eighteen years ago)

what race would golden grahams be?

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:00 (eighteen years ago)

Say what you will about Dave Chappelle, he sure can do a white guy voice.

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:01 (eighteen years ago)

but you can't pretend there's any context in which cracker is a deeply bigoted and offensive term without being either disengenous or ignorant.

Stupid fuck, it's all about intent. It is used specifically to be a deeply bigoted and offensive term.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:01 (eighteen years ago)

Actually, probably not: it would suggest to me that whatever happened before the tape started was someone shooting his mother or something! You know: running into the audience with the rope doesn't make him a racist -- it's why he does it. The guy's a comedian. To get to where he is, he has to be good at handling hecklers. What makes him break down and show his true colours this one night?

that his response is indicative of a problem? hell, yeh.

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:02 (eighteen years ago)

I couldn't see how a white would be offended by "cracker" unless they were some cousin-fucker from West Virginia.

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:02 (eighteen years ago)

or casual mockery, either of which is offensive and racist.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:02 (eighteen years ago)

I couldn't see how a white would be offended by "cracker" unless they were some cousin-fucker from West Virginia.

Let's say you're on the subway and you walk past someone who pushes you forcefully and says, "Fuck off me, cracker." Would you laugh?

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:05 (eighteen years ago)

Do anglophiles call each other digestives?

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

I'd be more concerned by the "fuck off me." People say that? In that format?? Weird.

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:07 (eighteen years ago)

yeah i have to say echoing scott it looks pretty clear kramer was going for some edgy lenny bruce thing and failing horribly, this is the first i've heard of any bizarre racist behavior w/ kramer so i don't really have any reason to believe he's more racist than say stet nevermind nude spock, there's no pattern of behavior established unlike w/ mel gibson and he doesn't seem to be specifically endorsing any concrete bigoted ideology unlike trent lott.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:07 (eighteen years ago)

If they said "fuck off me" I would be doubled-over with gigglefits

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:07 (eighteen years ago)

My girlfriend works in Harlem. Apparently, a lot of white people are moving in and the rents are going up, so some of the people who've been there for years are resentful of all white people. She regularly tells me stories of being asked, "How you like it up here, whitey?" and being assaulted on the bus, etc. Cracker and whitey are the terms used. I'm pretty sure it's not a nice joke. And I'm quite sure it makes her feel bad!

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:09 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, I dunno, I've been told that fuckin' white people got some fuckin' nerve and that I was lucky he didn't take me off the train with him. Would that have been worse if he added "CRACKER!" to the end? Eh.

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:09 (eighteen years ago)

I'd be more concerned by the "fuck off me." People say that? In that format?? Weird.

Showing your relevance in this issue.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:10 (eighteen years ago)

"Fuck off me" is pretty funny.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:10 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.cepolina.com/freephoto/f/other.food/cracker.snack.bread.jpg /= http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Digestive_biscuits.jpg/250px-Digestive_biscuits.jpg

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:11 (eighteen years ago)

there's no pattern of behavior established unlike w/ mel gibson and he doesn't seem to be specifically endorsing any concrete bigoted ideology unlike trent lott

Yeah, I keep thinking that, along with the very valid point that things get crazy in comedy clubs, but I keep coming back to the fact that he angrily and menacingly started yelling "nigger" and referring to lynchings. Which is off the fucking map.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:11 (eighteen years ago)

Proving context is an issue. Thank you!

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:11 (eighteen years ago)

screaming "nigger" over and over and making angry 'you're lucky we don't live 50 years ago' allusions to lynching doesn't make you a racist per se. but come on, who but a schwartze-loathing hollywood racist would try to pull that off and think it funny? (BTW, I'm aware Richard's isn't Jewish, back off.)

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:11 (eighteen years ago)

"I'm out there, Jerry.... and I'm lovin' every minute of it!"

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:12 (eighteen years ago)

bernie goetz has a girlfriend in harlem??? what are the odds!

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:12 (eighteen years ago)

Digestives are like some weird halfway point between cookies and crackers, so I think it could still work.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:12 (eighteen years ago)

haha you don't have a girlfriend, whatever

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:13 (eighteen years ago)

What about chocolate digestives? There are possibilities there.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:14 (eighteen years ago)

CRACKER!

http://img.shopping.com/cctool/PrdImg/images/pr/177X150/00/01/c6/07/0c/29755148.JPG

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:15 (eighteen years ago)

i wish i could find a youtube clip of bobby hill's standup routine

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:15 (eighteen years ago)

http://john-kerry-news.newslib.com/img/logo/8.jpg

"I botched it"

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:15 (eighteen years ago)

hahahaha

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:15 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, geoff, it must make you jealous to imagine someone so much worse than you could have a girlfriend, which just shows how upside-down your world really is.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:15 (eighteen years ago)

John Kerry OTM.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:16 (eighteen years ago)

i wish i could find a youtube clip of bobby hill's standup routine

I was thinking of that episode when I read through most of this thread.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:17 (eighteen years ago)

your poor girlfriend! if only they had neighborhoods whites could gentrify free of persecution.

― ath (ath), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:17 (eighteen years ago)

dude of course he has a girlfriend - remember, she didnt brush her teeth or something

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:17 (eighteen years ago)

o no stet's gonna have to find another 'what's racist about racism' spin! - Comedian George Lopez told Los Angeles television station KTLA that he thought Richards' lack of stand-up experience may have been a factor.

"The question is you have an actor who is trying to be a comedian who doesn't know what to do when an audience is disruptive," Lopez said. "He's an actor whose show has been off the air, he shouldn't ever be on a stand-up gig.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:18 (eighteen years ago)

your poor girlfriend! if only they had neighborhoods whites could gentrify free of persecution.

Irrelevant.

She works for the public school system and this is the best place she's found so far.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:18 (eighteen years ago)

we are all jealous of nude spock and his lovely companion gentrificatrix.

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:18 (eighteen years ago)

poor girlfriend then has to come home only to be berated about her teeth, after being assaulted multiple times by racists on the subway. ;_;

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:19 (eighteen years ago)

My take on it is this:

Dude is doing his act, and starts getting heckled by a black man. He tries to ignore it, but the guy's persistent, gets to him. Maybe the guy calls him "cracker", and references their respective races in his heckles; maybe he doesn't.

For whatever reason -- too much alcohol, too much coke, mental illness, a bad day, bad judgment, or yes, crypto-racism -- this trips a circuit in Richards's head. He thinks to himself, This guy is fucking with me, going after me no-holds-barred, and he's doing it because he thinks I'm afraid to fire back the same way, because he's black. He can call me whatever he wants, but I have to hold back, I'm supposed to tiptoe. Well, take this, buddy.

And so he calls him a "nigger", makes a left-field reference to lynching him, because he wants that moment when the guy's mouth drops open. He doesn't think about consequences, he just wants to let loose, wants to drop the A-bomb (or, well, the N-bomb). And maybe he realizes what he's done, but he can't backpedal, he has to go with it, try to work it into something that'll tie it together. But he can't, everything he does just makes it worse.

I may be totally wrong on this, but I think it comes from the same place as Elvis Costello's infamous "blind ignorant nigger" comment -- in that I don't think the real driving force is any uncommon degree of racism in this particular person, but rather the desire to say The Thing You're Not Supposed to Say. It's the impulse that makes people in relationships go after their partner's jugular. To drop the bomb, to say "Fuck you, I'm going to deliberately escalate this past the point where either of us can control it."

This doesn't mean it isn't completely fucked-up; this doesn't mean that Richards isn't a racist. But I think the "OMG he's saying what he really thinks" argument is simplistic -- or at least I don't think it's the only explanation for the abhorrent events we saw on tape.

xpost t looks pretty clear kramer was going for some edgy lenny bruce thing and failing horribly yeah OTM

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:19 (eighteen years ago)

nude spock's bumper book of heckler put-downs

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:19 (eighteen years ago)

Another King of the Hill connection! He's right, though.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:19 (eighteen years ago)

poor girlfriend then has to come home only to be berated about her teeth, after being assaulted multiple times by racists on the subway. ;_;

It's true!

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:20 (eighteen years ago)

'what's racist about racism'

Racism is racist, but racism doesn't make someone a racist.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:20 (eighteen years ago)

If your girlfriend exists, maybe you should consider that she is a tool?

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:20 (eighteen years ago)

bobby,

i'm no big expert on race relations, but you seem like you're sort of a shithead.

― M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:21 (eighteen years ago)

omg plz to photoshop kramer's head onto 'get happy!!!' cover

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:21 (eighteen years ago)

lurker #2421's post is the most OTM thing on this thread so far.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:21 (eighteen years ago)

If she is a tool, maybe you should consider that you are sub-tool?

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:22 (eighteen years ago)

i'm no big expert on race relations, but you seem like you're sort of a shithead

But, how can that be? I gave you Page's "Lucifer Rising".

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:22 (eighteen years ago)

guys, there's no girlfriend, come on

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:23 (eighteen years ago)

lurker #2421's post is the most OTM thing on this thread so far.

Yea, it is. And he is agreeing with me and stet.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:23 (eighteen years ago)

I give +10 bonus points for still using Harlem as a boogie man spector town. I lived way up north there myself, never really ever had a problem. So I'm gonna have to go with tool for yr shorty, dude. A) terrible hygiene B) dates you C) gets harassed by random strangers constantly for being shit. Have some self-respect and dump her already.

xpost geoff we know, it's just funnier this way.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:23 (eighteen years ago)

xpost That's fine. I agree with a lot of what Stet has said. I've been ignoring most of your posts, NS.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:24 (eighteen years ago)

pathetic argumentation. I might as well go somewhere else now.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:24 (eighteen years ago)

no please dont go!!

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:25 (eighteen years ago)

Please do, I suggest here.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:25 (eighteen years ago)

Ally, you should remember I hold my own opinions. Attempts at psychic teardown are pointless coming from someone I don't respect.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:26 (eighteen years ago)

Ha, I've already been there!

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:27 (eighteen years ago)

so you respect them black folx calling you cracker???

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:28 (eighteen years ago)

"Just because big Jerry is a has been doesn't make little Jerry a never was"

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:28 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not trying to "psychic teardown," I'm laughing my ass off at the suggestion that what you just described about your ~~Real Doll~~girlfriend happens on any kind of regular basis at all. But keep New Jack Citying up the thread. I don't get why you continue to post here, to be honest, what with your important job and devoted, persecuted, smelly girlfriend and all that.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:28 (eighteen years ago)

I've never been called a cracker as far as I can remember.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:29 (eighteen years ago)

Christ, it's bad enough blount tying me in with nude spock. I don't know what yr argument is bobby, but it doesn't seem like mine. I'm not defending him, and I'm not saying he can't be a racist twat.

FWIW, It increasingly seems like it is -- and for the record I think the behaviour was outrageous and uncalled-for, whatever his motivations or point he was trying to make. If he was trying to be funny, I've got no time for him at all.

Lurker saying what I wanted to say without being a prick about it.

― stet (stet), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:29 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not trying to "psychic teardown," I'm laughing my ass off at the suggestion that what you just described about your Real Dollgirlfriend happens on any kind of regular basis at all.

The bus she takes is always packed. It happens more often than makes me comfortable.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:29 (eighteen years ago)

http://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/assets/resources/2006/09/Joe-Cullen-Lions.jpg
Ally, you should remember I hold my own opinions.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:30 (eighteen years ago)

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- Jerry Seinfeld says he's "sick over this."

He's reacting to the on-stage comments from former "Seinfeld" co-star Michael Richards over the weekend at a Los Angeles comedy club.

Richards, responding to heckling from two black members of the audience, unleashed a string of racial epithets, taunting the two men with slurs and profanities. Some people in the audience walked out, as Richards repeatedly used the N-word.

Today, Seinfeld issued a statement saying, "I'm sure Michael is also sick over this horrible, horrible mistake." Seinfeld says the comments from Richards were "so extremely offensive." He adds, "I feel terrible for all the people who have been hurt."

As for Richards, best known as Seinfeld neighbor Kramer, he wouldn't comment on camera when reached by C-N-N, but the network reports that he said off-camera that he felt sorry for what happened, and that he had made amends.

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:30 (eighteen years ago)

I've never been called a cracker as far as I can remember.

i've been called a cracker! there used to be (maybe still is?) an open air drug market at iowa and austin on chicago's wild wild west side. i used to walk home 2 blocks north and one night i was told "if you're not buying, just keep walkin' cracker".

it totally made my night.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:31 (eighteen years ago)

I don't know what yr argument is bobby, but it doesn't seem like mine. I'm not defending him, and I'm not saying he can't be a racist twat.

Don't worry, that's all I'm saying. But, as several ILXors have noted recently, people love to jump all over me. So, if they can associate you with me in their minds, that's even better for their argument against you.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:31 (eighteen years ago)

Happening once should be "more than makes [you] comfortable," so that doesn't really prove any kind of greater point, does it?

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:32 (eighteen years ago)

Happening once? Disingenuous or sheltered, I'm not sure which.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:33 (eighteen years ago)

UH did you bother to read what I actually wrote? I mean, I already know the answer to that, so I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. Like I said, I lived up there as have several ILXors and I don't recall any one I know having trouble at all. It happening at all is more than anyone should be comfortable with, so stating it has happened more than you'd like it to is pretty worthless.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:35 (eighteen years ago)

you know who could have sold kramer's ill-fated stab at shock-humor:

http://www.globalspot.com/gilbert_gottfried.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:35 (eighteen years ago)

UH did you bother to read what I actually wrote?

Yeah, that doesn't mean anything, either.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:35 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.imagedonkey.com/out.php/i432_shockeyshocked.gif

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago)

Jerry: "You didn't know smoking is bad for you?!" [it caused his face to look like a 'catchers mit']
Kramer: "Well... emfysima, birth defects, cancer yeah... but not this!"

― Gerard (Gerard), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago)

i've been called a cracker, too. a "dead cracker" no less. and in des moines! but still my teeth are in pretty good shape. i'm a survivor

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago)

"OH MY GOD THERE IS A NEGRO HECKLING ME SOMEONE CALL THE LAPD"

people would have been rolling in the aisles. gilbert should teach a class.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:36 (eighteen years ago)

Did Gilbert say that? He is hilarious.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:37 (eighteen years ago)

no, he didn't say that. just saying some people can get away with stuff cuz they are funny.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:38 (eighteen years ago)

i do think that kramer is a gifted physical comedian though.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:39 (eighteen years ago)

It happening at all is more than anyone should be comfortable with, so stating it has happened more than you'd like it to is pretty worthless.

Yeah, that's what I was saying. The first few times she told me about this sort of shit, I thought, "Oh, that's not too bad. I'm pretty comfortable with that." But, then, you see, after several times, I said, "Now hey wait a minute. This is starting to make me feel uncomfortable here!" Dummy.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:39 (eighteen years ago)

wtf is it with tmz getting all the racist (sorry if the use of that term offends any crackers) outbursts?

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:41 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, that was totally what I said, Carrot Top.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:42 (eighteen years ago)

Say, that's the line I just used on you. Good comeback.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:43 (eighteen years ago)

irrelevant

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:44 (eighteen years ago)

blount, you watch the Michigan-OSU game?

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:47 (eighteen years ago)

the dude i work with felt the Blakk Panthers were not radical enuff fo him in th 60's and I showed him th video and he said he wooda got sum of Kramers DNA on him sumwhere if he ever heard that shit in a club,he claimed he woulda balled up his car keys and hit him in th forehead.So this polite protesting on the way out is pretty minor by comparison to what coulda woken him up of his porsche induced racial biases.anyone who is as unfunny in person,a Mason,and just plain tweeked as Michael Richards hadda seen this one comin.Either that or his publicist had no more entrees into mainstream media left at his disposal.So perfectly timed to th 7th season dvd release party.

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:48 (eighteen years ago)

@ work, missed most of it, heard some it sorta on the radio (radio dudes breaking in intermittantly to describe what's happened as much as they could without actually having rights to the game), got home in time to see lotta crackers in red streaming onto the field.

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:51 (eighteen years ago)

vineyard h.s. MURDERED nantucket. fuck you, whalers!

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:52 (eighteen years ago)

I watched a few minutes of it through glass at the Verizon center before heading off to do my thing. I was supposed to be rooting for OSU, so I'm glad they won, I guess.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:52 (eighteen years ago)

i'm not a sports guy to begin with but i will never understand college ball. people say it's more "pure" and shit, i don't get it.

― geoff (gcannon), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

Ohio students need something to feel good about in their life.

x-post

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:55 (eighteen years ago)

I'm totally not a college ball fan, offered to root for them on behalf of someone else. But then didn't watch the game, whoops.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:55 (eighteen years ago)

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/72236302.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193875DCB1DD8387ABB4D647386F37CDBDB
"What is with all these niggers!!..You go into the airport,theres one in the bathroom cleaning the toilet,you go to a restaurant and there's one parking the car..All of a sudden you start to feel a little paranoid that your not one too!!Like who am I to not be a nigger?Why did they get the job..I think they are the real chosen people,chosen for basketball games,chosen to go into the front doors of battle situations first,I mean cmon already with this niggers everywhere"

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:57 (eighteen years ago)

bunnybrains = racist

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:57 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.atf.gov/kids/graphics/art_contest/dsc_554820%25.jpg

xpost no more like not funny

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:58 (eighteen years ago)

noise hippies=niggers

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

racist seinfeld on next snl

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:02 (eighteen years ago)

At least we will all be spared Horatio Sanz.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:02 (eighteen years ago)

my friend hates chris rock-"Who's more racist, black people or white people? Black people. You know why? Cause we hate black people too! Everything white people don't like about black people, black people really don't like about black people. There's some shit going on with black people right now. It's like a civil war going on with black people. And there's two sides: there's black people, and there's niggas. And niggas have got to go."-chris rock

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:03 (eighteen years ago)

i can't wait until the video of the heckler hits youtube tomorrow and we find out that the heckler is tony clifton in black face

― cousin larry bundgee (bundgee), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:06 (eighteen years ago)

i hate chris rock's voice-over on his show. ruins it totally. they should have gotten daniel stern to do it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:07 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/20/D8LH0G1O1.html

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:08 (eighteen years ago)

I can understand why YouTube comments threads would have people arguing about this, since YouTube comments threads seem to be populated exclusively by repulsive morons; I'm having a little bit of trouble figuring out why ILX would have to argue anything out about this.

P.S. I am really sick of people who are all like "black people call each other nigger all the time" -- this is a severely fucked-up perception based on people getting their information on What Black People Do All the Time pretty much solely from hip-hop videos and The Wire and shit, and I seriously wonder if people who say that honestly believe that the middle-aged woman in the next cubicle at work seriously goes home to her kids and says "what's up, my niggas, we're having Applebee's tonight!"

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:09 (eighteen years ago)

from tmz.com-TMZ Comment 841. "I am offended by this not because I am defending the blacks but because Michael Richards is a kike, so how can he say anything about any other races. Jews are at the very bottom of the race ladder. They are dirty, cheap, ugly, and uses other races to get what they want, just as michael richards uses blacks to get laughs. And the dumb jew bastard needs to know his history because 50 years ago he would not have been lynching niggers because he would have been already been thrown in the oven with the other kikes to burn to death. Somebody needs to remind him that he is just a jew bastard so he does not matter.
GO TO MY WEBSITE AND READ HOW THE JEWS MADE UP THE HOLOCAUST BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST PLAIN IDIOTS"

Posted at 3:57PM on Nov 20th 2006 by Ashley

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:09 (eighteen years ago)

(Please to bash Michael Richards and not Ohio, Beth S. thx bye)

― J (Jay), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:09 (eighteen years ago)

Would most of you guys PLEASE STOP BEING TROLLS?

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:10 (eighteen years ago)

I can't find any funny lynching pictures to post.Hmm.

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:11 (eighteen years ago)

"what's up, my niggas, we're having Applebee's tonight!"

is it wrong to laugh at this?

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:12 (eighteen years ago)

Ooh, that Sacha Cohen posing as Borat posing as Ashley - what a crack-up!

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:13 (eighteen years ago)

Still giggling over "...what's up, my niggas, we're having Applebee's". ALTHO I have heard the mother who lives next-door to me call her grown children "nigger", but granted, she is not a middle-class person who works in an office. Also, not to detract from the original point.

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

It's funnier if you imagine nabisco saying that to his roommates every night, actually

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

I don't know if you guys know this, but if you listen to enough Hip Hop you begin to think using the N-word.

A brief (and completely true) example:

I am in Banana Republic, browsing their sale items when in my field of view two white guys rush over to the belt rack.

The thought verbatim that popped into my head was this:

"Niggas be buying belts!"

now I'm not about to go around voicing these kind of things, but that's the sort of context I meant...

-- Colin Cassidy (chcus...)

― anticon jemima (ooo), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:15 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.texemarrs.com/images/michael_richards.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:15 (eighteen years ago)

do you know who Colin Cassidy is, trife?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:16 (eighteen years ago)

Would most of you guys PLEASE STOP BEING TROLLS?"

dying here

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:16 (eighteen years ago)

Haven't the Masons been persecuted enough?

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

http://videodetective.com/photos/739/031075_43.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

For example, this conversation that made me laugh last winter:

Son: But Mooooon, I don't WANNA shovel snow!
Mom: You'll shovel that snow, nigger wants to live.

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/8186/noosein5.jpg

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

scott and lurker are on the right track, i think. i'm guessing he fucking blew an edgy routine, and ended up looking like a total racist/asshole. as to whether or not he's an actual racist: i don't really care. in this context, he is. when he's buying groceries or taking a shit, who knows? even if he is a drooling racist, the crackpot theories of washed-up comedians aren't that important to me. as long as he isn't out there preaching hate or perpetrating violence, let him stew in whatever garbage he's got in his head. if he isn't a racist, great, one down.

thing is, if he apologizes publicly, will he resort to the gibson defense (WASTED!), or will he just fess up to bad comedy? something about the latter option is 1000x more sad and pathetic than the former.

xp I seriously wonder if people who say that honestly believe that the middle-aged woman in the next cubicle at work seriously goes home to her kids and says "what's up, my niggas, we're having Applebee's tonight!"

ok, this is fucking hilarious

― gbx (skowly), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:18 (eighteen years ago)

from tmz.com-TMZ Comment 841. "I am offended by this not because I am defending the blacks but because Michael Richards is a kike, so how can he say anything about any other races. Jews are at the very bottom of the race ladder. They are dirty, cheap, ugly, and uses other races to get what they want, just as michael richards uses blacks to get laughs. And the dumb jew bastard needs to know his history because 50 years ago he would not have been lynching niggers because he would have been already been thrown in the oven with the other kikes to burn to death. Somebody needs to remind him that he is just a jew bastard so he does not matter.
GO TO MY WEBSITE AND READ HOW THE JEWS MADE UP THE HOLOCAUST BECAUSE THEY ARE JUST PLAIN IDIOTS

― gear (gear), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:18 (eighteen years ago)

TS: "Applebee's tonight" vs. "buying belts" vs. "macaroni off the motherfuckin chain"

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 20 November 2006 21:19 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.kshs.org/exhibits/carry/graphics/masonsm.jpg

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:20 (eighteen years ago)

"I thought you said you were bringing a white boy! I don't see a white boy! All I see is a damn fool!"

― literalisp (literalisp), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:23 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.jamaikashop.de/catalog/images/Grape%20Soda.jpg

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:23 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.leadingauthorities.com/images/Fournier_Ron_BK-Applebee

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:24 (eighteen years ago)

"When I'm in that chair, I let the expletives fly!"

― mike a (mike a), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

Grape soda is only less offensive because it is a little newer and more unique than chicken or watermelon. If he'd said, "Shut up and drink your grape soda," you'd all be laughing.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

shut up

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

you say that because you know I'm right

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

Did I miss the part of insensitivity training where we learn that only black people drink grape soda? Maybe so, but grape soda is no red pop.

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:28 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.worlded.org/us/health/docs/tobacco/images/36.jpg

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:28 (eighteen years ago)

I can't find any funny lynching pictures to post.Hmm.

http://pics.livejournal.com/hardvice/pic/000brd3w

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Monday, 20 November 2006 21:28 (eighteen years ago)

This was the point of the post I made way upthread before the hilarious clusterfuck happened.

I seriously wonder if people who say that honestly believe that the middle-aged woman in the next cubicle at work seriously goes home to her kids and says "what's up, my niggas, we're having Applebee's tonight!"

WOAH who works with Vivica A. Fox???????

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:28 (eighteen years ago)

If he'd said, "Shut up and drink your grape soda," you'd all be laughing.

I wouldn't be laughing, but I would be thinking, "Third-rate comedian goes for easy race joke, a la Tough Crowd with Colin Quinn. How lame." Which is still better than, "WTF kind of raving lunatic is this?"

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:30 (eighteen years ago)

Well, yeah, that's what I mean. So I guess Dan Bunnybrain is a 3rd rate comedian. Point is, it's offensive. The lines are a bit blurry and I don't think you can conclude this guy is definitely racist.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:31 (eighteen years ago)

No, I mean 'shut up' because i want you to shut up

― deej.. (deej..), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:32 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.thebunnybrains.com/fotoosprovidenceenneterna295.jpg

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:33 (eighteen years ago)

wait what

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:34 (eighteen years ago)

my bar mitzvah photos!

― parsley, sage francis, rosemary, and thyme (dubplatestyle), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:34 (eighteen years ago)

four legged hipster mutant cocaine chick

― gear (gear), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:35 (eighteen years ago)

Maybe I'm just exhausted and slap-happy today, but I cannot stop laughing. WAHT IS THEES PICTURE?

― Laurel (Laurel), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:35 (eighteen years ago)

The lines are a bit blurry and I don't think you can conclude this guy is definitely racist.

Of course we can't. I have no idea what's actually going on inside your head other than by inference based on what you type here. What's your point?

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:35 (eighteen years ago)

Lenny Kravitz has let himself go etc

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:35 (eighteen years ago)

thats me and my vaction buddies jamie and norman..norman was born on sept 11..so he always has sumthin to say

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

JEFF SAVE YOURSELF WHILE YOU STILL CAN, IT'S TOO LATE FOR THE REST OF US (APPARENTLY)

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:37 (eighteen years ago)

thats how we deal w hecklers

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

No, I mean 'shut up' because i want you to shut up

because I'm right (this will go on for infinity, so you might as well shut up)

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

Threads like this are the reason that ILX needs more CSS flooding, not less.

― John Justen says Toonces was one of the most talented cats on televison (johnjus, Monday, 20 November 2006 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

What I found more racist was Robin Williams on Comic Relief 2006
What I found more racist was Robin Williams on Comic Relief 2006
What I found more racist was Robin Williams on Comic Relief 2006
What I found more racist was Robin Williams on Comic Relief 2006

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:39 (eighteen years ago)

It astounds me that people think there is some sort of meta-comedic explanation that would somehow make this OK.

― jonviachicago (jonviachicago), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:39 (eighteen years ago)

fuck a kramer.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:42 (eighteen years ago)

we r using comedy to deal w our pain

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:42 (eighteen years ago)

JEFF SAVE YOURSELF WHILE YOU STILL CAN, IT'S TOO LATE FOR THE REST OF US (APPARENTLY)

Yeah, I'd read enough to know better. I held off for so long, too.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:43 (eighteen years ago)

jvc, I don't think anyone's saying that it makes it OK, but it could mean that he's not the dyed-in-the-wool racist so many people have assumed him to be.

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:43 (eighteen years ago)

"It astounds me that people think there is some sort of meta-comedic explanation that would somehow make this OK."

if it had been funny and the hecklers had laughed and stayed for the rest of the show it would have been okay.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:43 (eighteen years ago)

it all seems to go back to Richards vitriol..like he was uncorking a moonshine bottle full of years of pent up scrunched against the wind collar walking thru L.A. homeboys yellin Kramer at him..HE HATES TO BE CALLED KRAMER

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:44 (eighteen years ago)

FOr a second I thought Lenny KRavitz was fucking a shaved centaur.

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:45 (eighteen years ago)

jaymc - I wasn't really referring to your posts, just a couple of the ones waaaay upthread that hinted at some "humorous" explanation for it. I just don't think he was being that clever.

― jonviachicago (jonviachicago), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:45 (eighteen years ago)

I mean, Whoopi basically nicely asked him to shut up so that she could say her line and he responded by calling her Condi Rice and then talking with some combination of ghetto / tribal savage accent like in old Bugs Bunny cartoons.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:46 (eighteen years ago)

xxxpost
me too -- with a really hairy nipple

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:47 (eighteen years ago)

Actually in a hotel room over the weekend I caught Billy Crystal pretending he was a jass musician/Katrina refugee and making Louis Armstrong faces, it was wack as fuck.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:48 (eighteen years ago)

I hate sharing a hotel room with Billy.

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:49 (eighteen years ago)

What were you doing in his room?

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:50 (eighteen years ago)

(RIGHT XPOST)

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:50 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah I knew that was coming right after I hit submit.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:51 (eighteen years ago)

Robin Williams is all spontaneous, right? Well, it appears that spontaneously, he just thinks talking like a "black man" is hilarious in itself. He's not saying anything funny. He's just talking like a "black man." It makes me want to fucking smack him. But, he always has that effect on me.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:51 (eighteen years ago)

now you know how we feel

― songs and ballads of the bituminous miners (sanskrit), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:52 (eighteen years ago)

no, it's just that he's such a good black man impersonator!

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:52 (eighteen years ago)

I just don't think he was being that clever.

It's certainly a long way to go to sell the punchline "That's what happens when you interrupt the white man, don't you know?" But hey, teh kidz loves the "squirm comedy" right?

― literalisp (literalisp), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:53 (eighteen years ago)

now you know how we feel

Oh, you don't like him either, eh?

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:53 (eighteen years ago)

pls to give more snappy jungle-gym comebacks, nood spok!

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:56 (eighteen years ago)

"Actually in a hotel room over the weekend I caught Billy Crystal pretending he was a jass musician/Katrina refugee and making Louis Armstrong faces, it was wack as fuck."

ugh, i hate his jazzbo character. so wrong.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:57 (eighteen years ago)

"jungle gym"

― jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:57 (eighteen years ago)

"It's certainly a long way to go to sell the punchline "That's what happens when you interrupt the white man, don't you know?"

he was making it up as he went along! that's why it's so excruciating. dude neds a script to be funny.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:58 (eighteen years ago)

even more damning is that kramer used to be in an improv comedy duo with the whitest man alive:

http://www.begleysbest.com/images/Ed-Begley-Jr-Pic.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 21:59 (eighteen years ago)

Say what you want about Chris Rock, but he really helped out Bobby Hill when he played "Buddha Sack" in King of The Hill:

BOBBY: Hey, I've been working on some new material. Check it out. "White people think the 'hood is something on their sweatshirts." And "How come the cops always be pullin' me over? What's up with that?"
BUDDHA SACK: Bobby, let me give you a little constructive criticism: You're not black.
BOBBY: Oh. Okay.

― mike a (mike a), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:00 (eighteen years ago)

he was making it up as he went along! that's why it's so excruciating.

That's really a small part of why it's excruciating.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:01 (eighteen years ago)

pls to give more snappy jungle-gym comebacks, nood spok!

always do, my spelling-challenged friend!

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:01 (eighteen years ago)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/loopy_duckie/transylvania_6-5000_8.jpg

― literalisp (literalisp), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:04 (eighteen years ago)

BUDDHA SACK: I got something called freedom of speech. Ever heard of the first amendment? Thomas Jefferson be turning over in his grave right now, and the slave ladies on top!
HANK: Now, see here, Thomas Jefferson was a founding father! He designed and built his own house!

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:05 (eighteen years ago)

HANK: Excuse me, sir, I don't mean to criticize your lesson plan, but do you have a lesson plan?
BUDDHA SACK: You sayin' a black man can't put together a lesson plan? Well, here's my lesson plan: I ain't planning on teaching less'n you shut up!

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:06 (eighteen years ago)

ha transylvania 6-5000

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:07 (eighteen years ago)

O.J. Simpson Book, TV Special Canceled by News Corp. (Update1)

By Cecile Daurat

Nov. 20 (Bloomberg) -- O.J. Simpson's new book and television special were canceled by News Corp. Chairman Rupert Murdoch, who called the project ``ill-considered.''

The book ``If I Did It,'' where Simpson described how he would have murdered his wife and her friend Ronald L. Goldman, was to be released by ReganBooks, a publishing company owned by News Corp., on Nov. 30.

``I and senior management agree with the American public that this was an ill-considered project,'' Murdoch said today in an e-mailed statement.

Simpson was acquitted in the 1994 killings of his wife and Goldman. Family members of Goldman and Nicole Brown-Simpson spoke out against the book and TV show planned for the Fox broadcasting network when they were announced earlier this month.

``We are sorry for any pain this has caused the families of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown-Simpson,'' Murdoch said in the statement.

Class A shares of News Corp. fell 17 cents to $21.10 at 3:50 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. They had gained 37 percent this year before today.

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:07 (eighteen years ago)

Thanks for this thread today, guys. This is just the kind of madness I reside in a perpetual state of stokedness for.

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:10 (eighteen years ago)

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/loopy_duckie/transylvania_6-5000_11.jpg

― literalisp (literalisp), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:11 (eighteen years ago)

http://edbegley.com/biography/gallery/images/198x-Sleepy-Hollow.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:15 (eighteen years ago)

i can't believe kramer is going to jail because of this thread

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:18 (eighteen years ago)

"AM I CRAZY? OR AM I SO SANE I JUST BLEW YOUR MIND?"

http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue9811/images/sein13a.JPG

― Gerard (Gerard), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:19 (eighteen years ago)

hahaha i actually want to start arguing the things that stet and jaymc and Uri say that people here are arguing: that kramer is a consciously dyed-in-the-wool racist who has kept schtum for years and is so relentless and obsessive about, about his RACISM that he can never shake it from his soul

because it probably wouldn't be difficult

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:23 (eighteen years ago)

don't put words in mouths

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:27 (eighteen years ago)

http://i23.ebayimg.com/03/i/00/93/38/45_1.JPG

― Gerard (Gerard), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:27 (eighteen years ago)

i hate that song

― songs and ballads of the bituminous miners (sanskrit), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:29 (eighteen years ago)

wait, i'm thinking of "scatman"

― songs and ballads of the bituminous miners (sanskrit), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:30 (eighteen years ago)

haha I have a friend w/ Tourette's who was involuntarily obsessed with that song, for like a year he was a twitching scatman impersonating machine

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:31 (eighteen years ago)

Kramer: "Bro's no good. Too ethnic."
Frank: "You got something better?"
Kramer: "How about the Mansiere?"
Frank: "Mansiere."
Kramer: "That's right. A brassiere for a man."

― Gerard (Gerard), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:31 (eighteen years ago)

all we need now is a racist Scatman Crothers caricature

― songs and ballads of the bituminous miners (sanskrit), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:32 (eighteen years ago)

haha, omg Nick

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:32 (eighteen years ago)

For like 2 years there was a Scatman record on the wall of the local record store. I convinced the dude who worked there to take it down because if people didn't like Scatman for those two years, they won't like him now.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Monday, 20 November 2006 22:44 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/710/3march-76-article-pg1.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:49 (eighteen years ago)

ill-considered project
ill-considered project
ill-considered project
ill-considered project
ill-considered project
ill-considered project

ill-considered project

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:51 (eighteen years ago)

Giddyup!

― wordy rappaport (EstieButtez1), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:51 (eighteen years ago)

bummed that i was in boring meetings for most of this thread.

: (

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:55 (eighteen years ago)

although, i read the whole thing going "when does nabisco show up? when does nabisco show up? it's gonna be awesome when nabisco shows up..."

and it was.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:56 (eighteen years ago)

scatman unfair to asians!

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/h/hongkon2.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:56 (eighteen years ago)

scatman does not speak for all transforming robots!

http://www.flyingomelette.com/cartoons/tf/pics/jazz.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 22:58 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/Reviews/shin/scatman%20shines.jpg.."Free tickets to see TV's "Kramer" at the Laugh Factory?...uhh..I'll pass"

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:02 (eighteen years ago)

haha

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:02 (eighteen years ago)

walking thru L.A. homeboys yellin Kramer at him..HE HATES TO BE CALLED KRAMER

Yep, I bet anything that was the career-ending megaheckle.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:13 (eighteen years ago)

http://lh5.google.com/image/thebunnybrains/RWI2pD3-ABI/AAAAAAAAAAk/hx5iX5uQ4qc/s288/shining_scatman_crothers1_card.jpg
im sooooooo cooooooooold

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:27 (eighteen years ago)

This is my favorite part:

"Once the word comes out of your mouth and you don't happen to be African-American, then you have a whole lot of explaining," Rodriguez told CNN. "Freedom of speech has its limitations and I think Michael Richards found those limitations."

I'm waaaaaaaaaaaay more offended by this statement than anything Cosmo said onstage.

― Big Juan (Roger Fidelity), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:46 (eighteen years ago)

You know who's pretty damn racist? That Encino Man on Comedy Central.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:49 (eighteen years ago)

that's a different quote from the version i quoted way upthread (xpost)

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:50 (eighteen years ago)

http://weekendpundit.blogmosis.com/images/Freedom%20Of%20Speech%20rockwell%20388x480.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:51 (eighteen years ago)

http://jafablog.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/protestors_1.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:52 (eighteen years ago)

http://weekendpundit.blogmosis.com/images/Freedom%20Of%20Speech%20rockwell%20388x480.jpg

"Niggers."

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:54 (eighteen years ago)

hahahahahahaha

― j blount (papa la bas), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:55 (eighteen years ago)

Hahaha:

See other prejudiced celebs

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:55 (eighteen years ago)

ban pleasant plains and j blount

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:56 (eighteen years ago)

walking thru L.A. homeboys yellin Kramer at him..HE HATES TO BE CALLED KRAMER

I think that's far from the worst thing that's going to happen to him walking through L.A. now.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Monday, 20 November 2006 23:59 (eighteen years ago)

he's gonna get raped

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:00 (eighteen years ago)

ban pleasant plains and j blount

-- Bobby Ganush (joh...), November 20th, 2006.

Wah, dude. Boo hoo.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:01 (eighteen years ago)

so wait:

Bobby Ganush = Nude Spock /= Butt Dickass

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:03 (eighteen years ago)

correct.

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:08 (eighteen years ago)

I'm waaaaaaaaaaaay more offended by this statement than anything Cosmo said onstage.

You would be.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:08 (eighteen years ago)

ban a-ron hubbard. he's trolling me.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:10 (eighteen years ago)

Is this 'Bobby' person for real, or a random generating troll robot genius?

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:21 (eighteen years ago)

The latter minus the genius part.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:23 (eighteen years ago)

ban Alex in SF

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:26 (eighteen years ago)

Bobby Ganush=Nude Spock=Butt Dickwhatvs=Uri Frendimein=Eyeball Kicks=Scaredy Cat ... what have I missed?

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:32 (eighteen years ago)

not eyeball kicks -- he lives in islington!

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:34 (eighteen years ago)

but neuromancer way back in the day

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:34 (eighteen years ago)

Haha, that's going to piss off Eyeball Kicks, I bet. Butt Dickass has been banned! Poor guy...

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:34 (eighteen years ago)

not eyeball kicks -- he lives in islington!

Haw. Oh well.

― Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:36 (eighteen years ago)

Apparently richards is gonna apologize on letterman tonight

― deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:38 (eighteen years ago)

Eyeball kicks is interesting.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:38 (eighteen years ago)

If you had behaved like a racist asshole, how would you have done it?

― Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:39 (eighteen years ago)

let's hope he doesn't use the n-word

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:39 (eighteen years ago)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/Kramer2.jpg

SORRY NIGGAZZ!

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:40 (eighteen years ago)

Apparently richards is gonna apologize on letterman tonight

-- deej.. (clublonely@gmail.com), November 20th, 2006 6:38 PM. (deej..) (later) (link)

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:41 (eighteen years ago)

If you had behaved like a racist asshole, how would you have done it?

I think you should start off with one race that you really hate, then quickly add another that you hate almost as much, then, quickly pile on everyone else for the 'human racist' defense once you realize your error. That way, you can be kind of edgy and write the whole thing off as a joke.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:41 (eighteen years ago)

7. Kramer is a racist bitch and needs a beat down. You motherf***ers that stick up for his sorry ass needs one too!!!

Posted at 6:34PM on Nov 20th 2006 by Laqeesha

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:44 (eighteen years ago)

8. Leave it to someone named "Laqeesha" to say he needs a beatdown LOL

Posted at 6:38PM on Nov 20th 2006 by T

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:44 (eighteen years ago)

This one is the best:

12. I think its funny. Richards pushed the envelope more than any other comic in history. He showed how hypocritical it is for the media to explode over the "n" word but they say nothing about the word cracker. A slur is a slur. Besides, how many times have you wanted to say the same things RIchards said in a movie theatre when all the black kids wont shut the hell up.

Posted at 6:43PM on Nov 20th 2006 by shut up blacks

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:45 (eighteen years ago)

Reader Comments
(Page 1 of 4) | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Most Recent | Next 15 Comments1. At least he apologized and has Seinfeld to protect him (or rather, the sydnication of their show). It's still incredibly sad.

Almost as sad as the number of openly ignorant racist posts on some of the other threads.

Posted at 6:17PM on Nov 20th 2006 by Gen-X

2. OF COURSE HE APPOLIGIZED HE WAS FORCED TO BECAUSE THEIR WAS A VIDEO! WITHOUT THAT VIDEO, THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST AN 'ALLEGED INCIDENT' PROBABLY BLAMMING THE HECKLER INSTEAD OF THIS WACK JOB RACIST! I AM SAD AND DISGUSTED AT HIS BEHAVIOR. I REALLY ENJOYED HIS CHARACTER ON SEINFELD, BUT AFTER SEEING HIS TRUE CHARACTER HE APPEARS TO BE NOTHING BUT A RACIST, BITTER, NO-TALENT FREAK WHO SHOULD DISAPPEAR. NOW THAT HE JOINED THE MEL GIBSON SCHOOL OF REDEMPTION, HE TOO WILL NO DOUBT ANNOUNCE HE WAS HIGH ON SOMETHING AND SEEK IMMEDIATE HELP! TOO LATE LOSER, YOU CAN'T RECOVER FROM THIS NO MATTER HOW HARD YOUR PR PPL TRY AND FIX IT! GO BACK TO THE HOLE YOU CRAWLED OUT OF BEFORE AND AFTER SEINFELD BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED.

Posted at 6:25PM on Nov 20th 2006 by Evil Ruler

3. He wouldn't of said it if it weren't in his heart already.

Posted at 6:23PM on Nov 20th 2006 by CHRISTINA

4. I think he mentally lost it...no excuse, but maybe he needs some meds?

Posted at 6:27PM on Nov 20th 2006 by WTF?

5. I'm outraged the hecklers haven't been made to apologize. Kramer rules!

Posted at 6:31PM on Nov 20th 2006 by RB

6. please do not be alarmed at all the ignorant racism on the posts or from people like kramer. it's just confirming the fact that there are numberous rasicst ignorant bastards in the U.S. especially in cities like LA and NY, i'm not at all surprised. not in the slightest bit. If america can morn for 5 years for 9/11 victims and you barely here any support for the poeple of new orleans who are still homeless a year later, you shouldn't be surprised from the racism either. it's everywhere.

Posted at 6:32PM on Nov 20th 2006 by : (

7. Kramer is a racist bitch and needs a beat down. You motherf***ers that stick up for his sorry ass needs one too!!!

Posted at 6:34PM on Nov 20th 2006 by Laqeesha

8. Leave it to someone named "Laqeesha" to say he needs a beatdown LOL

Posted at 6:38PM on Nov 20th 2006 by T

9. If he didn't think his career was dead before.......

Posted at 6:25PM on Nov 20th 2006 by amy

10. What the phuck? This little dick, in the closet asshole apologize? What a pusssy, I lost all respect for him, and I'm black! BOOOOOOO!!!

Posted at 6:40PM on Nov 20th 2006 by A Black Person

11. I don't see what the big deal is, he called a few guys niggers , they were (_o_) ass-holes ! Just because he is a celebrity he can't call someone a bad name? Get a grip on yourselves....SOOOO WHATTTTT

Posted at 6:41PM on Nov 20th 2006 by jimmycrackcorn

Posted at 6:43PM on Nov 20th 2006 by shut up blacks

13. Oh please, GET OVER IT! Blacks call blacks names every day but let a white guy do it and "LETS GET RILED UP." Chris Rock or whatever his scummy name is makes fun of white people constantly but you don't hear the white people running to the press to whine do ya? NOOOOOOO!

Posted at 6:45PM on Nov 20th 2006 by Alice

14. I would like to see what happen to get Michael so pissed off??...

Posted at 6:42PM on Nov 20th 2006 by Dan

15. I see no need to apologize for anything. Glad to see some people have enough guts to tell it like it is.

Posted at 6:45PM on Nov 20th 2006 by Rob

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:54 (eighteen years ago)

this planet is possibly beyond redemption

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:54 (eighteen years ago)

I really think Richards was trying to make some unprepared statement joke about black people who act like assholes because they think they're supposed to or that they're entitled to act like assholes or something. Watch it again and you can see his frazzled, upset mind trying to weave it togeter. "Alright you see? This shocks you, it shocks you... to see what's buried beneath you stupid motherfuckers?" He was bringing up the 50 years ago to explain their bad behavior and trying to construct a joke about it. He just failed at being funny, that's all.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:55 (eighteen years ago)

Without a doubt.

x-post

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:56 (eighteen years ago)

we are all doomed.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:57 (eighteen years ago)

but there is still some ice cream left, so...

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:57 (eighteen years ago)

everybody should just stay home.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:58 (eighteen years ago)

pizza!

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 00:59 (eighteen years ago)

popcorn?

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:01 (eighteen years ago)

What's distressing is the rush to judgement here. After having watched it at least 4 times now, I am positive he was trying to make a point about why they felt entitled to be loud and obnoxious because they're black. Now, this is probably a racist thing in itself, since who knows why they were being loud and obnoxious, but I really think he was trying to say, "Look! There's a nigger!" in a way that meant, "You guys just love to draw attention to yourselves. You just looove to be different, don't you? Well, here you go! You're different! You want to be different, just like back in the day?! Well, here you go! Let's throw out the niggers!" Can't anybody else see that?! Watch it again. I seriously doubt the dude is racist. Just not funny.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:06 (eighteen years ago)

bobby ganush why don't you just shut the hell up already

― ath (ath), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:07 (eighteen years ago)

ban ath

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:09 (eighteen years ago)

I don't shut the hell up because hardly anyone seems to be able to see this shit for themselves.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:09 (eighteen years ago)

You are a grade a moron who should shut up

― deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:10 (eighteen years ago)

My ability to perceive is greater than your own, so stop giving me advice, dipshit.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:11 (eighteen years ago)

THAT'S UNCALLED FOR!

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:11 (eighteen years ago)

My ability to perceive is greater than your own

I AM A CLARVOYANT

― J (Jay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:13 (eighteen years ago)

(clairvoyant, obv.)

― J (Jay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:14 (eighteen years ago)

that, too

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:15 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.accsoft.com.au/~quantum/images/george/pose.jpg

HE'S A SLANT-EYE! HE'S A SLANT-EYE! HE'S A SLANT-EYE!

― chocolatepiekid (chocolatepiekid), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:17 (eighteen years ago)

I like the way Bobby thinks.

And, you know, fuck you, Alex.

― Big Juan (Roger Fidelity), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:22 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.ctgilles.net/images/pictars/kramer.jpg

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:24 (eighteen years ago)

I like the way Bobby thinks.

Gasp! You mean for myself?!

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:25 (eighteen years ago)

dogwhistle time

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:30 (eighteen years ago)

Pretty nmuch, yeah. ILE is often goose-step central, don't you know.

― Big Juan (Roger Fidelity), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:30 (eighteen years ago)

Can't anybody else see that?! Watch it again.

Well at least some comedy has come out of this whole thing.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:32 (eighteen years ago)

xpost thanks, Roger, and I agree, btw. It reminds me of middle school when people would pick on the weird kid because then the cool kids would respect them more.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:34 (eighteen years ago)

Bobby, I think you are being foolish.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:39 (eighteen years ago)

I agree, this is not wise, but damn it, someone has to stick up for this poor dumbass. Everyone deserves a fair trial.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:42 (eighteen years ago)

(except Mel Gibson)

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:42 (eighteen years ago)

It reminds me of middle school when people would pick on the weird kid...

Don't flatter yourself.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:43 (eighteen years ago)

principle of fair trial = defendent has competent and effective lawyer

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:43 (eighteen years ago)

Often, a fair trial is composed of idiot jurors and a bunch of maniacs outside with signs.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:46 (eighteen years ago)

Don't flatter yourself.

Likewise, shortbus.

― Bobby Ganush (Uri Frendimein), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:46 (eighteen years ago)

ha! goodun.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:50 (eighteen years ago)

(total nonsarcasm, *slow clap* 'n shit)

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 01:50 (eighteen years ago)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a271/speediez1/trash.jpg

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 02:06 (eighteen years ago)

THAT'S UNCALLED FOR!

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 02:08 (eighteen years ago)

lol

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 02:08 (eighteen years ago)

wtf, mahalo OTM

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 02:09 (eighteen years ago)

Bobby McHooded there seems to be giving Richards far, far too much credit.

― jonviachicago (jonviachicago), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 02:11 (eighteen years ago)

jackie Chiles will get him out of it!

― get yr coat luv uve jes bin pulld (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 02:41 (eighteen years ago)

I suppose this was inevitable:

The jerk store called. They ran out of Michael Richards.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 02:56 (eighteen years ago)

Have you ever seen stand-up comedy? There's something called "heckling." It happens when you suck. People yell stuff at you. It's not a "black thing." Giving the heckler a hostile reminder of lynching is not really the best way to respond. It'd be kind of like if a Jew heckled him and he said "Sixty years ago we sent people like you to the concentration camps!"

I don't know why I even need to spell this out for you, and the fact that I need to just emphasizes how useless it is.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 02:56 (eighteen years ago)

Washed up comic hurls racial epithets at loud obnoxious blacks SHOCKA!

You know what would rule? If Americans just stopped apologizing and owned up to their true feelings. People are flawed. History was a lot of bad news. The internet's full of whiners. Asi es la vida.

Maybe if the country began an UNCENSORED dialogue, then it could finally begin to sort itself out.

― maria b (maria b), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:03 (eighteen years ago)

"Y'all're just thinkin' it, I'm the only one with the BALLS to say it!"

-every stand-up with a cheap-n-easy racial schtick ever

― nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:21 (eighteen years ago)

so i watched some of that apology on cbs's site and oh man he is just wacked out. maybe its drugs. he's still pissed off!

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:22 (eighteen years ago)

Man, every time I'm in a movie theater and some black kids make noise, I think "What I'd really like to do is lynch them." Thanks for saying what I didn't have the guts too - I think this is the kind of honest racial dialogue we've needed to have for a long time.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:24 (eighteen years ago)

Letterman asked Richards if he would have responded to the heckler in a similar vein if he had been of a different race.

"It may have happened," said Richards. "I'm a performer. I push the envelope. I work in a very uncontrolled manner on stage. I do a lot of free association — it's spontaneous, I go into character. I don't know. In view of the situation and the act going the way it was going, I don't know. The rage did go all over the place it went to everybody in the room."

Richards seemed baffled by his own reaction on stage.

"I'm not a racist, that's what's so insane about this," he said.

The actor said that he went back to the club later that night and went on stage to "get back on the horse as they say." He said he apologized to as many people as he could after the incident, but some of the people he targeted had already left.

He added that he supports the people who complained to the press about his comments.

"They've gone to (the) press, as I think they should," he said. "I think it's important for the African-American community to make sure this kind of crap doesn't come about and I'm sorry that it happened."

"Having apologized, is there much more that you can do?" Letterman asked.

"I just have to do personal work," Richards replied.

Seinfeld thanked Letterman for giving Richards an opportunity to speak publicly about the incident.

"I've known him many years, and I know how he works on stage," said Seinfeld. "None of that justifies what happened. He's someone that I love and I know how shattered he is about this. And he deserves a chance to apologize, and that's all he wanted, and thank you for letting him come on."

The segment airs on "Late Show With David Letterman" tonight on CBS.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:24 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

Maybe if the country began an UNCENSORED dialogue, then it could finally begin to sort itself out.

so you're suggesting that "50 years ago you'd be hanging from a tree with a fork in your ass" is a good place to start this dialogue?

just checking.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:25 (eighteen years ago)

Audience members in the Ed Sullivan Theater, who were watching Richards on a screen, began laughing at Richards at first, thinking that the interview was a comedy skit, until Seinfeld admonished them, saying, "Stop laughing. It's not funny."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:31 (eighteen years ago)

Was thinking about Chappelle/Pryor/Murphy doing their white people observation bits when the dumb "reverse racism" gripe came up, and the thing is they usually come across as amused by, baffled with and/or creeped out by the shenanigans of assorted square (and sometimes non-square) white folks but there's not an overtone of real contempt like you see in Larry the Cable Guy or Carlos Mencia or whatever that pseudo-Pesci-ass dude from Colin Quinn's show was named (or uh Colin Quinn while I'm at it). Maybe Richards' spaz-out was a feeble attempt to hop on that train or maybe gank Sarah Silverman's schtick but there's not much there that's "groundbreaking" or "dangerous" to defend, it's just too much hate and not enough comedy.

I should totally dig out this weird old late '60s comedy record I got a while back that is basically a totally rural Southern white dude making "I am a totally rural Southern white dude and confused at the modern world" jokes at the Apollo -- his name's Dick Davy and the album is called You're a Long Way from Home, Whitey.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:36 (eighteen years ago)

nate if you YSI that lp i promise to cut down to only 1 furry joke a week

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:38 (eighteen years ago)

if ever a YSI was appropriate, now is the time.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:39 (eighteen years ago)

okay who is dan bunnybrain? because he is a genius

― i've dreamt of rubies! (Mandee), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:47 (eighteen years ago)

dudes for god's sake quite responding to b. ganush

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:47 (eighteen years ago)

bit hard to respond to a banned dude

― electric sound of jim [and why not] (electricsound), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:48 (eighteen years ago)

foreal???

― geoff (gcannon), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:50 (eighteen years ago)

Cut back to Kramer at Anna's door.

GRANDPA (to Anna): I thought you said you was bringin' a white boy home! I don't see a white boy! I see a damn fool!

― timmy tannin (pompous), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 03:54 (eighteen years ago)

This whole thing is very strange, and potentially fatal to his career, but I think it's more a case of him showing incredibly poor judgement, as opposed to being a racist. I don't buy it as "irony" or whatever - he had a full-scale meltdown for reasons that haven't been fully explained yet. I never cease to be amazed by the power that word still has in America. I wonder if the same level of controversy would have been generated if he had berated the hecklers along racial lines without saying the "N" word?

― A black dude from Canada just trying to understand (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:04 (eighteen years ago)

Well, more than anything he looked like he was having some kind of a breakdown.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:06 (eighteen years ago)

But yeah, obviously if he had had a meltdown but not implied that black people ought to be lynched and said "nigger" over and over again there would be less controversy. I don't see why anyone would find that surprising.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:08 (eighteen years ago)

(find surprising the amount of controversy because of what he said, I mean)

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:09 (eighteen years ago)

Dude this record is wild, Davy's talking about how the FBI seems to crack down on draft card burners easier than they catch church burners, and how when Juan Marichal clocked Johnny Roseboro with a bat he should've been arrested for impersonating a police officer. YSI coming in about an hour.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:09 (eighteen years ago)

f'reals. xpost

1:06 PM, 20 Nov 06 locked user Uri Frendimein by electric sound of jim [and why not] (nude spock)

― elmo argonaut (allocryptic), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:09 (eighteen years ago)

- A black dude from Canada just trying to understand (juice_rocks@hotmail.com), November 21st, 2006.

Oh, and also, hi Bobby Ganush!

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:09 (eighteen years ago)

the sept 11 comment is less funny now that i know

― i've dreamt of rubies! (Mandee), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:11 (eighteen years ago)

hurting, julien is real

― s1ocki (slutsky), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:13 (eighteen years ago)

Ah ok. Sorry then Julien! I over-read-into "Juice Rocks" as some kind of racist joke by Bobby.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:14 (eighteen years ago)

"so you're suggesting that "50 years ago you'd be hanging from a tree with a fork in your ass" is a good place to start this dialogue?

just checking."

That's a good place to start. Let it all hang out, kids.

― maria b (maria b), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:15 (eighteen years ago)

"I'm not a racist, that's what's so insane about this," he said.

oh shit!

jaymc, nude spock, stet: YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG!

SORRY DUDES!

LOCK THREAD!

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:20 (eighteen years ago)

I wonder if the same level of controversy would have been generated if he had berated the hecklers along racial lines without saying the "N" word?

With "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f***ing fork up your ass", I'd say controversy was headed Richards' way. In fact, I think in one way that's the more astonishing part of his rant, due to the ugliness of sentiment undergirding it.

― Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:21 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, I think it was the bald-faced hostility and hatred toward black people that makes it such an object of criticism.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:25 (eighteen years ago)

he was trying some sorta edgy routine that he didn't have the finesse to pull off and then when it went bad kept digging a bigger and bigger hole (from what i can tell about his cbs appearance above he ain't stopped yet) - dude's career is in a bit of a rut, he's definitely typecast/seen as 'kramer' which was probably a more limiting role to be stuck in than any of the others on seinfeld so he needs a shocking new direction to move in so there's some other aspect to him (saget's sorta done this in a way - ppl are nearly as aware of his blue rep as they are of his full house/afhv persona)(and when i saw that guy he got heckled LIKE crazy and dealt with it easily) for ppl to react to (for him to get work from), he sees borat racking huge laffs, $$$ working un-pc faultlines, he sees larry david racking huge laffs, $$$ working a confrontational asshole routine and he thinks 'well, maybe this will work' and then he forgets to be funny. there are white comedians who could (or could've at least, i can't name a white standup worth a fuck right now) get away with saying 'nigger' or anything on stage - lenny bruce, sam kinison. there are comedians who can have entire routines filled with warped hatred and STILL be funny - eddie murphy's raw is considerably more twisted and longer and way over the line than kramer's tirade (though to be fair at no point does murphy say call any particular women in the crowd 'bitches' or threaten to rape any of them)(or presumably stalk them after the show - hi there nude spock!), but OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE: IT'S FUNNY. murphy's able to pull it off and whether it's worth pulling off is debateable also but it's defendable. kramer doesn't pull it off and this isn't defendable. (cf. ying yang twins 'whisper song' vs. ying yang twins 'salt shaker' - same act, same sexual politics but i love listening to the latter while the former repulses me).

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:25 (eighteen years ago)

NOSTRADUMS OF YOUTOOB:

thegoyim (11 hours ago)
This guy is one fucked up individual damn thats messed up if you pay attention he says thats what happens when u intterupt the white man. You can tell he really means it too that the most horrible thing and I used to like the character of Kramer not that much anymore. There will eventually be a giant race war In Los Angeles mark my words.

― songs and ballads of the bituminous miners (sanskrit), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:27 (eighteen years ago)

lol

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:28 (eighteen years ago)

but the whisper song is awesome

― am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:28 (eighteen years ago)

I used to like the character of Kramer not that much anymore.

LOL "i now must reassess my love for this Kramer character"

― am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:30 (eighteen years ago)

THE BATTLE FOR GONDOR IS OVER, LET THE RACE WAR OF KRAMER BEGIN

― songs and ballads of the bituminous miners (sanskrit), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:32 (eighteen years ago)

Applebees will be the first to go, crackers.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:33 (eighteen years ago)

You just know someone in the media is desperatly trying to get an interview with Bill Cosby on this.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:34 (eighteen years ago)

There will eventually be a giant race war In Los Angeles mark my words.

http://www.blaxploitation.com/images/cover_gifs/cover_the_warriors.gif

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:36 (eighteen years ago)

watching this, the part that creeps me out is "that's what happens when you interrupt the white man!"

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:36 (eighteen years ago)

To my ears that line still sounds like *grasping at comedic straws*

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:38 (eighteen years ago)

Guy 'Just Giving You A Hard Time' Truly Despise You
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55267

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:40 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, what creeps me out about it is that he sort of tries to say the last two words in a "wacky" way, as if it only occurred to him halfway through the line that this whole "edgy" tangent isn't going so well and he might as well try to pretend the whole thing was just typical wacky kramer hijinks. x-post

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:42 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, "That's what happens *fuck, this isn't working* when you interrupt the (FULL ON KRAMER) WHITE man!!"

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:45 (eighteen years ago)

Dammit Hoosteen you just reminded me of that Tony Scott remake, blah

― nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:49 (eighteen years ago)

Letterman gets right down to it: "I blame Borat."

― Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:49 (eighteen years ago)

Here is the YSI for the (ridiculously out of print) Dick Davy record I mentioned upthread. It's all one file, about 40 minutes/38 minutes.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:54 (eighteen years ago)

There will eventually be a giant race war In Los Angeles mark my words.

--WARRIORS PIC--

More like:

http://www.sentimentosdilacerados.blogger.com.br/charles%20manson.jpg

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:54 (eighteen years ago)

Reggie Denny didn't photograph too well

― nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:55 (eighteen years ago)

You're a good man, Nate P.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:56 (eighteen years ago)

watching this, the part that creeps me out is "that's what happens when you interrupt the white man!"

naw, if there's a saving grace to this mess, that's it. i mean, that's so not funny that ...

― literalisp (literalisp), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:58 (eighteen years ago)

letterman is on now, and fuck is it awkward..

― am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:03 (eighteen years ago)

Wow, is this Letterman live? It's really confrontational and awkward. I can't believe the crowd was laughing a bit in the beginning.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:05 (eighteen years ago)

Some more about Dick Davy's masterwork:

Recorded live at the Apollo Theatre in New York in 1966. Davy, from Arkansas, talks with a drawl thicker than molasses.... 7 routines including Opening, Greyhound Bus, Non-Violence, New York Blackout, Things is Getting Better, New York Signs and Times is Changing...liner notes by Merv Griffin, Produced by John Hammond

Merv Griffin?!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:06 (eighteen years ago)

i missed the beginning! i wanted to see seinfeld tell them to shutup

michael richards voice was shaking. whole thing is pretty sad i think

― am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:09 (eighteen years ago)

kramer came across like a truly tortured soul.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:10 (eighteen years ago)

he is our tortured amerikkkan psyche in clown's makeup. wait, that's jerry lewis.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:11 (eighteen years ago)

now they're back from commercial and its wacky seinfeld comedy WTFAWKWARD

― am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:11 (eighteen years ago)

am0n otm (cept bout the whisper song)(shit's SLOW).

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:12 (eighteen years ago)

kramer came across like a truly tortured soul.

i didn't say that. just seemed really nervous, as he should

― am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:13 (eighteen years ago)

i know you didn't say that. i just said that.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:15 (eighteen years ago)

Merv Griffin?!

-- Ned Raggett (ne...)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/Seinfeld_s9e6.jpg

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:20 (eighteen years ago)

a million miles AWAAAAAAY

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:25 (eighteen years ago)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xxl5QJFCqwY

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:34 (eighteen years ago)

roffles @ the Seinfeld ad next to that Onion article

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:38 (eighteen years ago)

i know you didn't say that. i just said that.

thought you were mocking the comment i made. my bad

― am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:45 (eighteen years ago)

why does it have to be "kramer" that goes and does this instead of someone really talentless like jim belushi or.. chris titus

― am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:58 (eighteen years ago)

well, kramer IS kinda nuts and those guys are just boring.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:00 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not trying to defend what he said, or play Devil's Advocate just for the hell of it, but for whatever reasons, I can't shake the feeling that this is just some bizarre, lapse in judgement. A bit borne out of frustration, which went horribly awry. Maybe I just don't want to believe that the man who played one of my favourite TV characters ever, could actually believe the things he said, and this is actually where his head's at. Regardless, it's going to be pretty hard to ever live this down. In my experience, people who really hold these types of beliefs are often much more careful about slipping up and actually saying anything out loud. Or maybe it's like what Eddie Murphy said in Delirious:

Racism ain't as bad as it used to be anyway man.
I mean its fucked up but,
They don't call niggers, niggers no more and shit.
White people don't say it.
Especially when there's niggers around.
So I guess I wouldn't know.

― Hurting, I assure you that I am very real. (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:31 (eighteen years ago)

why does it have to be "kramer" that goes and does this instead of someone really talentless like jim belushi or.. chris titus

It should have been Carrot-Top

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:32 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.cmfnow.com/images/products/aaron/carrot%20top.jpg
"Niggers niggers niggers!"*

*I apologize for ever aspect of this post

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:35 (eighteen years ago)

i just saw a clip of the letterman tape; so his excuse is that he went into a rage? I guess it wasn't an edgy bit gone to far after all.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:38 (eighteen years ago)

Heh, 1981 Richards plays teh rockist:

ihttp://youtube.com/watch?v=7mFyKNxXFGM&mode=related&search=

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:50 (eighteen years ago)

Not really that funny though.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:51 (eighteen years ago)

in more elaborate terms this is my take...

none of this thing had any artistic intent behind it. it was in no way a botched routine. yes, the rawness of the stage might have been a factor driving the reaction, but it was not the primary one. (though it's a notable irony that 'comedy' deals so often with race among other differences) no, the dude did something more elemental than that. he got called out and he felt seriously one-upped. so he flipped and did what lots of people in a position of serious weakness might do - he immorally went for a perceived comparative advantage. it could be i'm taller/bigger than you. it could be i'm richer than you. it could be i'm stronger than you. it could be i'm smarter than you. it could be i-know-how-to-reach-level-whatever-on-super-mario or i-know-more-klingon-than-you or whatever-the-fuck crazy thing some crazy dude comes up with. what could he tell about these people? he was whiter than them, and he went there. 'judgement' had nothing to do with it; it was a fight or flight reaction. maybe that's a revealing moment for which 'racist' is the only word. or maybe it demeans the concept to apply it to a sad dude who feels like a loser and says something in public that is not only hugely socially unacceptable/potentially career-killing but also something that he knows full well outside the moment is completely irrational, that in the moment means something to him emotionally indistinguishable from "you're short," and that he's obviously quite genuinely remorseful about. or at least to use the same word you would apply to someone who lucidly affirms/acts on support for racial violence and institutionalized prejudice. the fact that the impact was such a foregone conclusion should demonstrate how completely irrational he must have been at the time. not to mention the incredibly weird fork-torture-flipout, and his yearning for the good old civil rights era lynchings when he was, uh, a 7-year-old Angeleno. admittedly, it's harder to imagine he flipped out on that level for 2 whole minutes, but maybe being on stage and digging a big hole would do that to you.

again, this isn't to excuse or mitigate his behavior in any way. but i think if we just deem this a sudden outburst of long-suppressed secret racism, or even if we recognize that's not what it is but refuse to be concerned with the 'motivation' any further, we're failing to really address an issue that might be bigger than the dude who played Kramer. I actually think the Mel Gibson incident is similar in some respects, even despite the obvious differences there in his demonstrated history/associates/remorse level/personality. admittedly, also, Richards isn't much older than George Allen, and age/location were no bar to that dude's confederacy-fetish, but I don't really see Richards having spent his whole adult life using traditional racist (and misogynistic) trappings as outlets for his pronounced sadistic/antisocial tendencies (but maybe there are even lessons about the Allen thing here too).

the difficult question for me here is whether he 'believes' what he said, whatever that actually means. i think it's totally obvious that he doesn't hate black people or regard what he said as in any way appropriate. but i think this thing did reveal that he was willing to try to enjoy his white privilege, such as it is, however briefly/instantaneously, if made to feel worthless by someone who happened to be black. in simply stamping down that reaction as racist, though, are we also pushing the proposition of white privilege closer towards public secret territory?

i think he intuits some of these ideas, but doesn't entirely get all of them, and i think he's authentically at least somewhat confused about the meaning, both personal and public, of what he said. i give him at least some credit for assuming responsibility to confront both of those things.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:16 (eighteen years ago)

here is my take on it

http://bestmessageboardever.com/uploads/post-1452-1164078301.jpg

― get yr coat luv uve jes bin pulld (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:19 (eighteen years ago)

oh, also, i count at least 7 potential nude spock aliases on this thread. how many do you get?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:38 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.findagrave.com/miscpictures/kramer.jpg

i saw michael richards in a grocery store in santa monica about a year ago. dude looked old, sort of benign but just enough creepiness to make you think twice about approaching him.

― timmy tannin (pompous), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:39 (eighteen years ago)

i just finally watched this after reading and hearing about it all day. it was more pathetic than i expected. more poignant in its own way, because by the end of the clip he already knows how much he fucked things up as far as the crowd goes but he doesn't yet know that this is going to be seen by everybody, he has no idea what's coming.

i think the most profound thing in it, if there's profundity to be had, is when he says "there's still those words, those words, those words." like an incantation to himself. like someone who's just conjured the candyman but doesn't quite believe it. there are still those words, and you can't take them back.

i mean, obviously it's mostly a tantrum. christ knows why or what exactly made this the night for him to flip out, but one guy pissed him off and he flipped out. would he have flipped out at a white guy or a pretty girl? we'll never know and the question's irrelevant. what matters is that he flipped out at a black guy, and in flipping out at a black guy he drew upon this whole deep bilious well of american racial hatred that we all know is there, and we all know the history, and we mostly try to do our damndest to just leave that thing boarded up and papered over and hope that over time it'll all drain away. but then something like this happens, and all of that papering over doesn't seem to be worth much, and suddenly everybody's implicated. if he can flip out like that, then so can anyone -- because someone cut in front of you in line, or is talking too loud in a movie theater, or, you know, beats you to a good parking space or a good seat on the subway.

that "50 years ago" comment is lacerating because it's true, and because invoking it is essentially wishing for it, and in that second that's what he's really thinking -- that 50 years ago, motherfucker, we would've pulled your car over on your way home and...

which is, on the one hand, just another revenge fantasy, like the scrawny kid fantasizing about pulverizing the bully. except that it's a fantasy that draws on real history and real violence and puts the whole vile, hateful past at the service of petty, personal vindictiveness. which is, of course, exactly how that power was used "50 years ago" -- by guys who had had a bad night and were looking for someone to take it out on.

i can believe he feels bad about it. he should. but it's not like feeling bad is going to make it go away.

(xpost w/gabbneb)

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:40 (eighteen years ago)

right, the drawing on real history is what makes it so seriously different from any other sort of one-upmanship. but i'm suggesting that the very wtf-ness of it suggests how divorced the incident is in fact from the real history it references. the letterman audience's laughter seemed to some extent generalized nervous laughter, but it was also laughter at that very wtf-ness, underscored at least a little uncomfortably by his awkward use of 'afro-american.' focusing on the wtf-ness seems to me to be equally plausibly a bad not-getting-it thing or a good this-is-such-a-bizarre-random-freakout thing.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:50 (eighteen years ago)

yeah except that as it turns out it can't be divorced from the real history it references. which in the video you can see him realizing almost immediately after that wave of rage passes. he starts trying to put into the context of his act, like he's doing "edgy" social commentary or something, but he knows himself what just happened and the audience knows it too. i think what takes a few seconds to sink in with the crowd is that this wasn't ironic or double-entendred or any of the other ways people might be accustomed to hearing racial banter in comedy, it was the real thing bursting through, and basically once everyone realizes it, the show's over.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:56 (eighteen years ago)

His interview on Letterman was as big a disaster as the tirade itself. Oh boy.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:09 (eighteen years ago)

i feel a little less charitable watching the letterman thing, which has at least a few moments of maybe-not-getting-it, but it's sort of understandable that he might be discursive in a moment like that

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:11 (eighteen years ago)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xxl5QJFCqwY

LOL Do you think you can drug me and play with my toys? You've got ANOTHER THING COMING buddy

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:13 (eighteen years ago)

This incident was completely in keeping with Richards' "on the edge, out of control, and not at all funny" schtick that he's been doing since the early 80s -- think of the excrutiating toy soldiers bits on Fridays, or the Andy Kaufmann walk-out, where he was the only cast member in on the joke and could only come up with looking and acting enraged. Kramer was funny because there was a script.

(Richards' career will suffer more than any of the UC cops'.)

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:23 (eighteen years ago)

(Strike that last bit -- it was an ill-considered attempt at edgy humor.)

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:24 (eighteen years ago)

He did play Kramer as if he were on the receiving end of a constant tasing.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:26 (eighteen years ago)

im pretty sure zmuda said in an interview that only the director that andy almost fought with was the only one that knew about the kaufman thing and the cast had no idea.

― chaki (chaki), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:26 (eighteen years ago)

in both his and mel gibson's cases, the whole idea of a public apology is basically flawed. i mean, it's the least they can do, but at the same time there's not much they can say that really makes anything any better. the standard celeb-apology model is for behavior that fucks up their own lives, or at worst their family's lives -- drugs and sex, mostly. the model doesn't work so well when the behavior was outwardly directed at entire sections of the population. it's easy to forgive people for fucking up their own lives, but a lot to make amends to millions of people. people who aren't members of the immediately targeted groups don't have any moral grounds on which to grant forgiveness, and people who are members of them don't have any reason to think you're anything but another racist asshole. so an apology, even if it seems heartfelt, doesn't make much of a dent. and is just not credible; it is possible to go from being a drug addict to being at least temporarily sober in a relatively short period of time. but who's gonna believe you were a racist asshole last week but you're totally not now?

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:27 (eighteen years ago)

but who's gonna believe you were a racist asshole last week but you're totally not now?

which is why i'm not shocked by this at all to begin with. slow news week, i guess. or more interesting to ilx than those kids who got killed in alabama today, or something.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:31 (eighteen years ago)

I thought Richards as well as Jack Burns knew what Kaufman was going to do on that Fridays skit. During Kaufman's "breakdown" Richards gets up and gets a pile of the cue cards and drops them in Kaufman's lap, which I thought was the high point of the bit. Brilliant improv if he didn't know beforehand.

― nickn (nickn), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:35 (eighteen years ago)

― the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:36 (eighteen years ago)

# WTF?: "Seinfeld"'s Michael 'Kramer' Richards in Weird-o-Rama Onstage Meltdown (666 new answers, last at 12:36 am)

― the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 08:39 (eighteen years ago)

Of course it's that shitbag Letterman, of all people, who's generously giving Richards the forum on which to 'apologize.' What a fucking douchebag. Go crawl up Madonna's ass you piece of shit.

That said, after watching the footage, it's clear that Richards 'went too far.' I mean, shit, I wouldn't have said any of that, meltdown or no. But I still think he should stand behind what he said - even if he's all 'it was the coke' - instead of becoming a genuflecting little weasel about it.

I find political correctness teeth-gnashingly offensive. To whom do I address the poison postcard?

― Big Juan Listening to Psych Folk Alone at 4:30am (Roger Fidelity), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 09:34 (eighteen years ago)

Slightly OT, but there's this whole thing in Florida about reclaiming the word "cracker" and making it something to brag about. For example:

Florida Cracker Country and the sites notable What's a Cracker/" page

and then there's the Florida Cracker Horse and Florida Cracker Cattle

and we cannot forget the Cracker Village or the Florida Cracker Trail.

Whoops - almost left out the Florida Cracker House Plans.

I also got a lemonade at this place, last time I was in St. Augustine:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p257/HedgePigLove/My%20Refrigerator/cracker.jpg

I kinda get the feeling that the word "Cracker" just isn't as emotionally charged as some others mentioned up-thread.

― I'm Passing Open Windows (Ms Laura), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 09:44 (eighteen years ago)

http://chefmoz.org/img/ctoys/crackerbarrel2.jpg

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:16 (eighteen years ago)

i just finally bothered watching the meltdown clip (but not the apology yet). what's even more fucked up than richards' outburst is that the audience took so long to stop laughing after the first utterances of the magic word.
-- the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (theundergroundhom...), November 20th, 2006 10:36 PM. (later)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

# WTF?: "Seinfeld"'s Michael 'Kramer' Richards in Weird-o-Rama Onstage Meltdown (666 new answers, last at 12:36 am)
-- the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (theundergroundhom...), November 20th, 2006 10:39 PM. (later)

amazed that this thread went that many posts w/o anyone mentioning this.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:17 (eighteen years ago)

I kinda get the feeling that the word "Cracker" just isn't as emotionally charged as some others mentioned up-thread.

I remember a Saturday Night Live skit from many years ago when Chris Rock was attempting to come up with a new slur for white people because he felt that the current ones, "honky" and probably "cracker" as well weren't nearly offensive enough.

Racial Slur Database

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:20 (eighteen years ago)

Let me try that again

Racial Slur Database

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:25 (eighteen years ago)

what did he finally decide on? "yakoo" or something?

― GOD PUNCH TO HAWKWIND (yournullfame), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:31 (eighteen years ago)

Something like that, yeah.

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 10:32 (eighteen years ago)

I'm very bummed about this. I mean, ffs, this is KRAMER. I fucking love Seinfeld but I don't think I'll ever be able to watch the show without thinking of this incident. :-(

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:32 (eighteen years ago)

i love pulling off the highway when i see a sign for "the nigger barrel", great pancakes and a good gift shop, too

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:40 (eighteen years ago)

nah, this hasn't tainted my love for Seinfeld whatsoever

― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:43 (eighteen years ago)

it's increased it?

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:45 (eighteen years ago)

an equivalent of sorts to this in the UK from a few years ago: Big Ron does a Kilroy...

if it's possible to have 'less grounds' for such an outburst, Atkinson was not performing improv stand-up or under any emotional stress at the time. however altho fired from his job he has appeared on TV shows and been the subject of several interviews in the press since then and generally a sense of tolerance seems to have prevailed which suggests that rehabilitation IS conceivable (altho i know it can be v different in the US).

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:50 (eighteen years ago)

call me naive but I refuse to believe that kramer is a racist. especially after his appearance on letterman. just because you say something racist it doesn't automatically make you a racist, just like it doesn't automatically make you a misogynist if you call a girl a cunt or genuinly think a girl is a whore if you call her that. people lose their minds and say the most stupid shit all the time, it doesn't make you evil.

however, this was absolutely awful to watch(and the act itself of course) and there is obviously something wrong with this guy. he needs help.

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 13:52 (eighteen years ago)

Let's talk a bit more about the audience's initial laughter on Letterman, and the inability of them to accept Richards' appearance as something real vs. a performance/entertainment until prompted by Seinfeld to shut up.

I was sort of reminded of Richards' old colleague, Andy Kaufman, the reaction he received many years ago when he did this bugged-out entreaty before an audience (I think it was following the Friday's incident?) "I've lost my job and...Why are you laughing? This isn't a joke..." The obvious difference, of course, being in Kaufman's case he was totally 'in character' as he always was, whereas Richards was truly, visibly disturbed...

What do you think the audience's laughter is a reflection of? Emotional distancing from the situation? A generalized jadedness our society feels towards entertainment stars (i.e. their perceived superficiality, etc.)? The desensitization of their behavior when channeled through the mass media lens ("this is just another act")?

― Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:17 (eighteen years ago)

the apololgy http://youtube.com/watch?v=dufHYw-W6j4 sorry if already linked

― pscott (elwisty), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:22 (eighteen years ago)

or they just weren't aware what *exactly* he had said?

― Lovelace (Lovelace), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:23 (eighteen years ago)

in the original clip audience laughter is presumably a kneejerk reaction to the shock of the sudden repeated use of the word and references, perhaps combined with a sense of excitement about taboos being 'challenged' in this way. could even be denial again in some cases (this sounds bad but i don't want to appear stuck-up by not laughing...) or beyond that the idea that nobody is sure what is/isn't funny anymore and with kaufman-inspired prank culture so rife today (whether it's Borat or Jackass or something else) some people are practically terrified of being caught out/the butt of the joke.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:26 (eighteen years ago)

This thread is interesting as a dissection of "racist" as a word or concept. Some use it to describe people based on their actions, some based on a guess at some inner and unknowable state of mind. Action is character, or something, behavior is personality, or it's not. Or maybe we can never know what is in someone else's heart, no matter what they say or do. In which case we're back to making judgments based on their actions, which seems reasonable, and this was a horribly racist act, so people who do such things are racists. It's almost like the word gets in the way of the discussion. It reminds me a little of governments arguing over when to use the word genocide.

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:27 (eighteen years ago)

army + acid commune can do a lot to a man:

"He was drafted during the Vietnam War and stationed in Germany as one of the co-directors of the V Corps Training Road Show. He produced and directed shows dealing with race relations and drug abuse; "This was a successful, educational operation, boosting the morale of our men and incorporating the arts into the service." He then spent two years in the Army developing educational skits and a couple more years "finding himself" at a commune in the Santa Clara Mountains; he drove a bus and developed a stand-up comedy act in 1979."

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:29 (eighteen years ago)

re: big ron

a sense of tolerance seems to have prevailed which suggests that rehabilitation IS conceivable

uh, big ron seems pretty unreconstructed about the whole thing, i think he genuinely believes hes a victim of 'political correctness'. he probably genuinely believes hes not a racist either

but the sense of tolerance that 'seems to have prevailed' is more the public deciding 'ah whatever, i like ron, you know' and 'forgetting' the racism thing, rather than ron rehabilitating himself

― -- (688), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:33 (eighteen years ago)

"forcefield of hostility"

"this crap"

what a car wreck. and watching letterman try to be serious is ridiculous. roger otm

― am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:34 (eighteen years ago)

all this in time for the new release of season 7 of dvd Seinfeld

― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:36 (eighteen years ago)

He kind of looks like my dad, which is disturbing me. Is he Jewish or Italian (or neither)? Sorry, I just can't help but having that classic paranoid knee-jerk "I hope he's not Jewish because he'll give us a bad name" reaction, which I realize is ridiculous.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:37 (eighteen years ago)

but the sense of tolerance that 'seems to have prevailed' is more the public deciding 'ah whatever, i like ron, you know' and 'forgetting' the racism thing, rather than ron rehabilitating himself

yeah this is what i meant, i wasn't talking about ron himself

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:38 (eighteen years ago)

these clips will be the easter eggs on season 8 dvd 8-)

― am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 14:39 (eighteen years ago)

In which case we're back to making judgments based on their actions, which seems reasonable, and this was a horribly racist act, so people who do such things are racists.

yeah. there's this obsession with figuring out if someone is "really" a racist. which in some cases is actually sort of provable -- george allen comes to mind, the way one person after another came out with stories about him -- but in a lot of cases is down to the unknowability of what's in someone's "heart." but all we can really judge by are actions. saying michael richards is not a racist, or mel gibson is not a racist, requires some moral jujitsu: he committed racism, but he's not a racist. which is kind of like saying, i committed murder, but i'm not a murderer.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:11 (eighteen years ago)

i smoked a cigarette once, but i'm not a smoker.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:17 (eighteen years ago)

i kissed a guy once...

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:18 (eighteen years ago)

but you're not a kisser?

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

did you have a wank steve?

― -- (688), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:20 (eighteen years ago)

but i never tell

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:20 (eighteen years ago)

maybe kramer is racist-curious

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:23 (eighteen years ago)

the audience's initial laughter on Letterman, and the inability of them to accept Richards' appearance as something real

maybe that should be expected when you do yr mea culpa on a talk show whose host has personified pop irony for 25 years, and (on air)displayed the social consciousness of a newt? (unless the recent Bill O'Reilly stuff counts)

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:23 (eighteen years ago)

remember when lord custos said i had no right to call anything on ilx racist unless i could prove active membership in the klan

that sounds like a clever ironic joke but he was for real

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:23 (eighteen years ago)

I'm happy he did try to apologize. It was extremely awkward to see him trying to wrestle out of this (and with himself). He's obviously shaken up about it all. No matter what he had said, I think most people will laugh it off and continue to think he is racist. Something I don't really believe, one rant doesn't make one a racist. Maybe I'm naive. I know when I was 18, I would have said he was a racist. And maybe, yes, he is, but fuck it I'm trying to forgive. It's easy to be negative and shit all over the guy. Sure a slur is a slur, but that doesn't make one a bad person in my opinion. I believe in the benefit of the doubt. Of course it is racist - no matter how you look at it - but I really don't want to believe he's a racist. Probably because I want to continue enjoying Seinfeld. ;-)

God, why do I bother, really?

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:25 (eighteen years ago)

interesting that ordinary people want to 'forgive' a rich and succesful guy who doesn't even know who they are?

― -- (688), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:26 (eighteen years ago)

he brought great joy and laughter to their lives for many years.

we're not talking about mel gibson right?

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:28 (eighteen years ago)

back when i was having big 800 post fights about shit like this, that was my basic point - white ppl in general want to draw the line between themselves and 'racists' at like, klan/neo-nazi involvement, rather than just unconscious biases & predjudices. the defense that he was being heckled or angry or flustered or whatever - i dont think you can measure racism by how a white guy is doing when everything in his life is going great & all the united colors of bennetton are cheerfully tipping their hats to him!! this is like the guy who hits his wife & then explains he was mad - well yeah, i imagine you dont beat your wife when shit's all good

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:28 (eighteen years ago)

Hah. Instead of ranting he's a racist on a message board? *shrug* I mean, of course I'm not *forgiving* him, just wanted to say that we don't know the guy.

I used to be extremely radical when it came to feminism/sexism; but I try to shrug it off these days. I realized that all it did was piss me off and gave me a crap day, y'know, but the other didn't change and would just go on with his day not realizing that I was feeling shitty/angry about it.

Shit,I'm rambling. Whatever.

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:28 (eighteen years ago)

has anyone mentioned how intrinsically xenophobic Seinfeld seemed? (to non-worshippers only, perhaps) The characters were defined by their inability to look 5 feet past the end of their noses, which is why I found it much more sour and less 'delightful' than its mainstream Show About Nothing hype.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:33 (eighteen years ago)

i didnt mean you in particular, its a common theme, the celebrity fallen from grace, and the weird desire to 'forgive' someone we dont know (perhaps because we know their 'persona'), almost as striking as the desire for people to fall in the first place (maybe its some weird ass way of being able to sit above celebrities, i dunno)

― -- (688), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:34 (eighteen years ago)

"interesting that ordinary people want to 'forgive' a rich and succesful guy who doesn't even know who they are?"

it's strange, but what IS his responsibility to people as a "public figure" or "beloved sitcom doofus"? i wonder about things like that. if he was some no-name hack comic doing the same exact thing we never would have heard about it. charles barkley to thread.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:35 (eighteen years ago)

So, did they show the original clip on Letterman, you know, for context? :>

He's obviously shaken up about it all.

Yeah, shaken up about the whole world thinking he's a racist and possibly not getting any more gigs ever!

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:35 (eighteen years ago)

"i didnt mean you in particular, its a common theme, the celebrity fallen from grace"

i really do think it has to do with the public nature of it. most people don't have nation-wide scorn and ridicule heaped upon them when they fuck up. and this makes people feel sorry for or feel empathy for someone who is the target of MILLIONS of people's rage.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

I liked that bit on the clip where he seemed to think his comments may trigger a race war in America.

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

it requires "moral jujitsu" to distinguish between a dude saying something that is wrong-by-acclamation-including-his-own while out of his head and a lynching? doesn't that define "committing racism" down? or, doesn't it at least call for a more complex discussion of the forms racism can take and what causes them? and you're not actually effectively "judging by actions" without regard to "what's in his 'heart'" (whatever that means; ironic that Bushspeak-blather comes into play) by focusing solely on his use of the word and not looking at the rant as a whole and its context. actions don't exist in vacuums.

interesting that ordinary people want to 'forgive' a rich and succesful guy who doesn't even know who they are?

i'm sure the tv-familiarity comes into play generally (not really with me), but i also don't regard him as a rich and successful guy, or at least a successful guy. not solely because his persona to the extent it exists is that of an ordinary guy, but because the dude was never more than a sideman and is basically washed-up. and the US v UK thing about wealth.

it's interesting that another public secret this reveals (and maybe is fuel for seinfeld's and rodriguez' reactions) is that 'comedy' at its core is basically a medium by and for losers.

white ppl in general want to draw the line between themselves and 'racists' at like, klan/neo-nazi involvement, rather than just unconscious biases & predjudices

you mean white ppl besides you, right? what unconscious bias and prejudice did he reveal (other than the fact that black people on average have less opportunity than white)?

this is like the guy who hits his wife & then explains he was mad - well yeah, i imagine you dont beat your wife when shit's all good

are you saying that he isn't legitimately contrite/self-evaluating? or that he's done it before?

has anyone mentioned how intrinsically xenophobic Seinfeld seemed? (to non-worshippers only, perhaps) The characters were defined by their inability to look 5 feet past the end of their noses, which is why I found it much more sour and less 'delightful' than its mainstream Show About Nothing hype

you didn't get how self-aware the show was on that score? that was sort of the entire point.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

the 15 secs of Letterman clip I saw were totally Captain-$ave-a-Ho (did Jerry plug the new DVD?).

Thank God we have celebrities to remind us that racism, repressed homosexuality, spousal abuse, etc exist at all.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

they provide a service, i suppose. they are symbols or stand-ins for everyone's fuck-ups.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:42 (eighteen years ago)

.i also don't regard him as a rich and successful guy, or at least a successful guy. not solely because his persona to the extent it exists is that of an ordinary guy, but because the dude was never more than a sideman and is basically washed-up. and the US v UK thing about wealth

i dont think its a UK vs US thing about wealth, you just think you can only be rich if you have a magnum of learjets

― -- (688), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:44 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, basically. this is completely OTM.

you mean white ppl besides you, right? what unconscious bias and prejudice did he reveal (other than the fact that black people on average have less opportunity than white)?

you are really straining on this one, aren't you?

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:49 (eighteen years ago)

you didn't get how self-aware the show was on that score?

In the 15 or so episodes I've seen, not anywhere NEAR enough. If it had been, it wouldn't have been popular.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:50 (eighteen years ago)

i dont think its a UK vs US thing about wealth, you just think you can only be rich if you have a magnum of learjets

be that as it may, i think americans of all classes are more wont to regard even super-rich guys as ordinary.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:51 (eighteen years ago)

why did he apologize to hispanics too during the letterman apology? did he say something before the cameraphone started rolling, or does he lump all non-whites into the same category?

― ath (ath), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:52 (eighteen years ago)

lol @ "magnum of learjets"

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:56 (eighteen years ago)

the club's in LA? run by paul rodriguez? a few hispanics in the audience perhaps?

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:56 (eighteen years ago)

I'm sorry I didn't see the big before it. What sketch was it?

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 15:57 (eighteen years ago)

what unconscious bias and prejudice did he reveal ... ?

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

but that's the thing, this idea that it isn't racism unless it's a lynching, you're not a racist unless you wear a white hood, etc. the point is that those words and that assertion of power are all sitting there, with all of their history, accessible to any white person -- or any non-black person, really -- in this society. they don't have the power they used to -- saying "50 years ago we would've" doesn't actually turn 2006 into 1956 -- but they still have a lot of power because of the history they deliberately invoke. it's like this loaded gun that is supposed to be locked up in a museum exhibit and we're all supposed to agree not to use it. when someone goes ahead and uses it anyway, they're violating part of our complicated modern social contract.

and having a racist tirade in public is not in any way like smoking one cigarette or kissing one guy, unless you think cigarette smoking or guy kissing are somehow morally comparable to racism.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

in a thread full of great posts i think lauren's is still the best.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:03 (eighteen years ago)

and having a racist tirade in public is not in any way like smoking one cigarette or kissing one guy, unless you think cigarette smoking or guy kissing are somehow morally comparable to racism.

nor is it morally comparable to murder, was the point.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:03 (eighteen years ago)

he apologized to whites too, i think he realized what he was saying halfway through and didnt wanna make it just like 'uh yeah black people sorry i threatened to lynch you' but a less racially specific 'im sorry you all had to hear that'

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:04 (eighteen years ago)

the problem with the apology is that he cannot get out from under himself and his own self-pity. this apology is not about making amends -- and really, how could he? -- but about subtly shifting the victimhood from the people in the club/whoever has had to be exposed to this shit/race relations/anyone who has to hear the sorta bullshit backbending we've seen on this thread to himself. it's a completely self-involved apology, to the point where it was prolly too soon for him to offer anything in the way of sincerity or honesty, but a p.r. move to jump out in front of this story to try to slow it down with the wreckage of his psyche. but really, what could he apologize FOR? how does a person apologize for what is inside of them? he almost gets to that once when he says something about how "it just came out of me" and that was the closest he ever got to the truth. dude can write off his actions to whatever he wants in terms of what incited them, but fact remains that those words, those sentiments, those vile wishes came from somewhere and that somewhere is inside him. and if he truly is not the sorta dude who was AWARE that he had that capability, i think his demeanor on that letterman clip makes a lot of sense. but dude is in no way entitled to asking for forgiveness. that's the sorta thing that cannot be granted, because who would have the power to? last night was like watching a dude being strapped into an electric chair pleading for a phone to ring -- there's just no point. dude's an asshole anyway.

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:06 (eighteen years ago)

that should say NOT AWARE

― Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

i blame cameraphones

― cutty (mcutt), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

I was sort of rooting for dude to make a better apology than he did.
He almost didn't seem to acknowledge the racial element of his attack - his problem, he seemed to say, was his 'rage,' not that his rage exploded in this particular way. I think Gabbneb is right, this isn't a 'botched routine,' it was his attempt to 'one up' the hecklers, and it is a racist response and he clearly harbors some racist feelings and anyone in denial about this, anyone who believes Richards when he says "I'm not a racist" is clearly missing the point of what 'being racist' means - its not about avoiding that title, its about fucking being responsible for your actions. It seems to me that he's still unaware to a degree exactly why it was offensive that he specifically targeted their race.

I thought Letterman did a good job interviewing him, actually, considering the circumstances. He tried to keep the rambling on track and brought the focus on race when Kramer started to wander off into tangent-land

― deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:13 (eighteen years ago)

nor is it morally comparable to murder, was the point.

no, the point was that there's a fallacy in the notion that racist -- or murderer -- is something you are rather than something you do. you can spend all day every day thinking about killing people, but if you never hurt a fly you're not a murderer. you can spend all day every day hating black people, but if you never visibly or vocally act on it, for the purposes of the society you are not a racist. our codes of racial conduct are entirely bound up in how we act toward each other. so michael richards is now a racist in a way that some guy who legitimately hates people of other races but has never once articulated or demonstrated it is not. we get bound up in these questions of essentiality -- is someone a racist in their soul or something -- but those questions are not the point.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

I mean, the reason he relied on this was because somewhere inside him he believes it. I don't know that there's a point in blaming him for that, blame the history of a racist country, but I will blame him for not addressing it now, (or addressing it earlier, I guess), and he's still not realizing what those words mean and why they're more offensive than a 'generic' rage.

― deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

it's like this loaded gun that is supposed to be locked up in a museum exhibit and we're all supposed to agree not to use it. when someone goes ahead and uses it anyway, they're violating part of our complicated modern social contract.

I think this is completely OTM.

The question in my mind is, what happens when, in a black-white confrontation, the black person says (in effect) "I think you're a piece of shit specifically because of your whiteness". Does this break the social contract in the same way (though obviously not to the same degree)?

Because it sounds like Richards probably wasn't responding to a racially-based taunt -- "you suck because you're white". But I'm curious as to whether there's a way he could've replied "you're _____ because you're black" -- and not in a soft-pedaled, good-natured way, but with as much vitriol as his heckler did -- or whether it's his obligation to just not go there.

xpost it's a completely self-involved apology is OTM;

the reason he relied on this was because somewhere inside him he believes it

I'm still not so sure of this, I think "go for the jugular" could have been as much as, if not more of, a factor.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

there's a point in blaming him for it, though. we all live in a country with a racist history, and any one of us can draw on that history at any point. we choose not to, and we have to keep choosing not to.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:18 (eighteen years ago)

you can spend all day every day hating black people, but if you never visibly or vocally act on it, for the purposes of the society you are not a racist.

i'm not sure about this, so don't think comparisons to murder/murderer are accurate in this way either, altho it is interesting to think about (not me 'murdering people' i mean).

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:18 (eighteen years ago)

i love these two-day threads. even if they are mainly full of crap.

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:20 (eighteen years ago)

uh how would a black person invoke the equivalent of lynching? xpost

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:20 (eighteen years ago)

gypsy, i agree, i just don't think blaming him for his racism is the most effective method of dealing with this - it tries to marginalize kramer's beliefs, when in fact his are the same beliefs of huge numbers of americans and he reflects a lot of people's outlooks; he just lost self-control where most people try to hide it. "We are all Mark Foley"

― deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:22 (eighteen years ago)

The question in my mind is, what happens when, in a black-white confrontation, the black person says (in effect) "I think you're a piece of shit specifically because of your whiteness". Does this break the social contract in the same way (though obviously not to the same degree)?

no because that part of the social contract is built around our specific racial history. i mean, there's the generic part that is just, basically, in a multicultural society the resort to ethnic/religious/whatever insults is a generally bad act. but the whole section on black-white relationships is a lot more detailed and a lot more complicated. calling someone a cracker or a white motherfucker or whatever doesn't draw on hundreds of years of slavery, subjugation, rape and murder. but calling someone a nigger and saying "50 years ago we would've..." does. it is an offense of entirely different magnitude.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:23 (eighteen years ago)

To clarify, we should 'blame him' and he should be forced to answer for this, but i'd like to see him make an apology that seems to indicate some understanding about why his words were inappropriate, not just 'i lost self control, i don't really think these things'

― deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:23 (eighteen years ago)

i love how people keep calling him kramer. kramer's beliefs!

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:24 (eighteen years ago)

The Letterman thing was one of the most uncomfortable moments I've ever seen on TV. I was just flipping around before going to bed and didn't even know Richards was gonna be on it, so I was as surprised as the audience, who you'd think they would have mentioned it to in advance so as to avoid the whole laughter thing. It was an Oprah moment but on Letterman and people aren't supposed to be serious on Letterman, let alone someone whose appearance itself is humorous like Richards. I think it didn't work because he wasn't actually sorry about it yet--he was still kind of resentful that people were overreacting to it, and while I guess that's sorta understandable (in a self-serving way), dude, don't go on TV until you've gotten over that and can answer every question with some variant of "I fucked up, I'm sorry."

But that laughing--oh man. A signal moment in the history of television.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:24 (eighteen years ago)

deej what the fuck are you talking about. god this thread just keeps giving

gypsy and and what, cf. horseshoe upthread, in a time-travelling response to lurker 2421 - link

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:25 (eighteen years ago)

I mean Richards himself even mentioned that he was giving a serious apology on a program that 10 minutes ago had made a joke about him.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:27 (eighteen years ago)

uh how would a black person invoke the equivalent of lynching?

He/she wouldn't -- that was Richards's most egregiously racist and offensive comment, to be sure. Including the normative "we", etc.

xpost

No, I completely agree.

But -- setting aside the lynching comment, setting aside the word "nigger" -- in short, setting aside Richards's specific offenses:

Is there any way a white improv comic can respond to an attack on his "whiteness" with a counterattack on "blackness"? Or is he obligated to shrug the racial element off?

(This isn't meant to be a rhetorical/baiting question, I'm honestly curious as to how people think through this stuff)

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:27 (eighteen years ago)

deej what the fuck are you talking about. god this thread just keeps giving

I assume you mean the mark foley comment, its a reference to the Onion political cartoon in which the cartoons 'defends' mark foley. Except I'm being entirely serious, to a degree - while its important Richards understands that he harbors racist tendencies to me the idea of labelling someone 'racist' is less about damning them and more about getting them to understand exactly what that means and what should be done about it.

― deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:29 (eighteen years ago)

I mean, the lynching reference, the use of the word "nigger" -- that's what makes this so clear-cut, so unequivocally OTT and racist and unacceptable. But there's a subtler point that this brings up about how we discuss race, and how we expect confrontation to be handled, that I'm curious about.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:29 (eighteen years ago)

(and implications for society at large xp)

― deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:29 (eighteen years ago)

i'm not surprised at how people were laughing on letterman - richards is someone who has built up an enormous amount of goodwill, and also an expectation that he is going to be extremely funny and with those two things you're already 90% to getting people laughing anyway - steve martin played on this in "let's get small", when he says, "my girlfriend can't be here tonight... because she's dead" and the audience cracks up and he's like "no really, she's dead!" and the audience cracks up even more

lurker, does the phrase "common courtesy" mean anything to you??

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:30 (eighteen years ago)

Is there any way a white improv comic can respond to an attack on his "whiteness"

seems SO unlikely in the first place why even bother to consider adequate responses?

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:30 (eighteen years ago)

uh are you for real??? see also white rap dudes in a battle, the best of which have a variety of humorous non-racist responses to being called cracker/honkey/white devil etc

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:31 (eighteen years ago)

i just don't think blaming him for his racism is the most effective method of dealing with this - it tries to marginalize kramer's beliefs, when in fact his are the same beliefs of huge numbers of americans and he reflects a lot of people's outlooks; he just lost self-control where most people try to hide it.

well, two things. on one hand, yeah, obviously in these situations the person becomes kind of a scapegoat, a sacrifice that the rest of us make to prove that we're not racist, and so all the huffing and puffing and shocked-shocked moralizing seems self-serving. but on the other hand, not "losing self-control" is part of the deal here. we don't mandate that nobody harbor any racist or bigoted beliefs; we can't mandate that. what we mandate -- in some cases by law, in others (like this one) by custom -- is how people act toward each other. and so maintaining "self-control" is actually really important. and the social insistence on maintaining self-control, and the sanctions we impose for not maintaining it, are our primary mechanisms for protecting people against the effects of bigotry. if michael richards or mel gibson throws a racist fit and there's no consequences for it, then our protections against racism -- which are kind of shaky to start with -- are eroded a little.

'd like to see him make an apology that seems to indicate some understanding about why his words were inappropriate,

well, me too. but it's possible that if he were the kind of guy able to do that, he'd also be the kind of guy who wouldn't have flipped out in the first place.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:31 (eighteen years ago)

Seinfeld looks really upset on Letterman. More upset than Richards actually.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:33 (eighteen years ago)

yeah seinfeld comes off really well

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:33 (eighteen years ago)

Seinfeld looks really upset on Letterman. More upset than Richards actually.

He was kind of like the dad that brings his son back to the store and forces him to return all of the candy he stole.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:34 (eighteen years ago)

uh are you for real??? see also white rap dudes in a battle, the best of which have a variety of humorous non-racist responses to being called cracker/honkey/white devil etc

Right, this is exactly what I'm talking about -- the idea that we accept that you can't hit back in the same way. Because I think (and I may be totally wrong here) that's actually central to Richards's meltdown! He basically is saying "You think I won't call you on this because you're black", I think that's the thing he's tapping into.

The thing is, rap battle, the dozens, putdown comedy, shit like that -- you're supposed to be able to say anything. You're supposed to say "Your mother is a sore-infested crack whore" etc. etc. and the other guy laughs it off. So the idea that there's this third rail is worth talking about, because I think it's exactly this line that Richards consciously crossed.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:35 (eighteen years ago)

"Is there any way a white improv comic can respond to an attack on his "whiteness" with a counterattack on "blackness"?"

yes! if they are really funny!

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:36 (eighteen years ago)

He basically is saying "You think I won't call you on this because you're black", I think that's the thing he's tapping into.

But wasn't he being heckled for being an unfunny has-been? Why does race have to play into it?

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:37 (eighteen years ago)

xpost I think he's saying "nigger nigger nigger" dude.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:37 (eighteen years ago)

it doesn't! he isn't funny!

x-post

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

from Reason (the mention of which will, no doubt, make some of yr eyes glaze over):

Here's video of Michael Richards, a.k.a. Seinfeld's Kramer, stinking up the joint recently at The Laugh Factory. Responding to a heckler, Richards goes on an n-word tear that starts out like a Lenny Bruce/Dick Gregory-ish bit that's trying to straddle off-color (literally) humor and social commentary but then never climbs above simple offensiveness. Proving that audiences really do run the world, the offended heckler gets off the best line in the exchange (which is not saying much, to be sure) when he makes fun of Richards' meager post-Seinfeld career.

Richards has already apologized for his rant (to his slim credit, he didn't blame alcohol), which has been called a career killer. Though that, pace the heckler, presumes that Richards was not already a Hollywood nosferatu.

A number of people I know have drawn parallels between Richards' yapping and the musings of Sacha Baron Cohen's Borat, who trades in similarly offensive stereotypes and has freaked the shit of some observers even as he rules the nation's movie roost. Why is one considered awful while the other is dubbed comic and box-office gold (though to be sure, Borat has his detractors)?

I don't think it's too complicated: First and foremost, the audience is in on Borat's shtick. On some level, we can feel superior to the poor fools who are revealed as chumps. What makes the Borat stuff more interesting is that we often feel sympathy for the stooges, especially the ones who are trying to be polite to the crazy Kazakh and then get goaded into offensive or humiliating speech and behavior. In the end, I think Borat is in many ways a satire of American "friendliness" (every state in the Union, it seems, claims to be the friendliest of all), of our national willingness to want to respect the customs, traditions, and mores of foreign cultures (we're a pluralist melting pot and all that). Perhaps most important, there's an unmistakable sense of control: Cohen knows what he's doing, it's planned out, etc. You never confuse Cohen the creator with his characters and hence, even if you don't find him funny, you know on some level you're brothers under the skin. Unless you're those South Carolina frat boys. Or the guy who beat Borat up in New York after thinking he was serious in a sexual advance (even more evidence that the audience has a mind of its own). Which is the point: Borat creates an in-group between him and his viewers, while Richards simply alienates his crowd.

Part of what is disturbing about Richards' performance is the palpable sense of flop sweat, of desperation. You see a guy who reaches first for the easiest comeback to an African-American heckler and then can't trade up to actually being funny, to pull himself out of a simple assertion of power (whether based on skin color or, tellingly, celebrity). In that failure--especially coming from the actor who was truly transcendent as the funniest next-door neighbor in sitcom history--you see an ugly pentimento of the worst sort of race relations.

― gbx (skowly), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

Rather than "You think I won't call you on this because you're black"

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

letterman is often serious, irony and all, at least compared to his competition

this apology is not about making amends -- and really, how could he? -- but about subtly shifting the victimhood from the people in the club/whoever has had to be exposed to this shit/race relations/anyone who has to hear the sorta bullshit backbending we've seen on this thread to himself. it's a completely self-involved apology

i agree with this to at least some extent. but i thought he was also explicitly saying in part that he wanted to limit the impact of the incident on the public - trying to mitigate any incitement it might have provided to further racism in the public at large. i'm not certain about the extent to which that effort was in good faith, but i also didn't see a reason to be more than somewhat skeptical.

again, my point is i think both lynching and a dude-cracking-up-and-using-the-word are 'racism', but to merely leave it at that fails to examine whether they aren't motivated by different impulses, and might also be a poorer way of addressing the problem than just shunning the dude.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

Or did I misread Ethan? Maybe he meant that a white rapper can talk about his opponent's blackness in a humorous non-racist way. (Examples?)

xpost I think he's saying "nigger nigger nigger" dude.

Right, but right afterward he says some other shit that's illuminating about why he went there. Well, it could be illuminating, or it could be just bullshit excuses.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:40 (eighteen years ago)

what was the joke Letterman made 10 mins before the apology? cuz it seems really weird that he'd pair those.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:41 (eighteen years ago)

When I was in high school I went to a taping of Letterman and the guests were Michael Richards (who wore the Emmy that he had just won on a long necklace; it was kind of funny) and the Gin Blossoms.

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:41 (eighteen years ago)

surely it's a v different situation for white rappers compared to white comics?

are there many instances of a white comedian performing to a predominantly black audience (where race-based heckling may be somehow deemed more 'acceptable')?

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

yeah i didnt mean 'white rappers never mention race ever', i said they can hit back in a non-racist way, in a way which is smarter than furiously bellowing NIGGER FIFTY YEARS AGO WE WOULD LYNCH YOU

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

Why the hell are you guys talking about "an attack on his whiteness?" I watched the video of this, and it begins with Richards reminiscing about the good old lynching days: he only gets called a cracker a minute later, by a guy who's leaving and sounds totally wounded and shaken. I've been avoiding reading this thread, because the idea that there's anything at all to debate and worry over about this is fairly ridiculous -- but let's at least not distort the order of things.

I'm going to assume everyone's past the "OMG is it really racist to call black people niggers and talk about how they should be lynched" (hint: yes) and into the "interesting social analysis of how incidents like this are perceived by the public" part.

P.S. Y'all have no idea how infuriated I get by this aggrieved-white-people backlash against blackness where some people work from an assumption that black people get away with everything and can't be criticized and OMG lucky black people living it up with hos in hot tubs and are cooler than white people and better at sex and can beat you up and c.; this perception of black privilege (based in part on fetishization of blackness) is like a form of white psychosis every bit as pitiful as old-school racism.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:45 (eighteen years ago)

This thread is interesting as a dissection of "racist" as a word or concept. Some use it to describe people based on their actions, some based on a guess at some inner and unknowable state of mind.

I was thinking about this thread a lot last night, and I realized that what it came down to was that my definition of racist (noun) was narrower than other people's, that I was didn't think that behavior alone was sufficient to slap a label on someone. And this is maybe because I think people are basically good, and because I scare myself sometimes when I think how easy it would be to commit immoral or illegal actions, despite thinking of myself as basically good, too. There's probably some personal baggage here, but whatever.

I'm still inclined to think that "murderer" and "racist" occupy different categories, that the first is an unavoidable label that one assumes after one has committed a cut-and-dry crime, whereas the other is more like the word "evil," which requires shades of meaning and determination of intention. But I'm not entirely sure why I think that, and I can totally see why Mark and Jesse prefer to sidestep all that and just use the infinitely simpler "did a racist thing = is a racist" formulation.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:45 (eighteen years ago)

Wow, I was way off. When I saw Letterman it was Dan Rather and the Gin Blossoms. When I saw Leno being taped it was Michael Richards with Emmy Necklace and musical guest PJ Harvey.

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:49 (eighteen years ago)

OK. If you have any examples close at hand I'd be interested in seeing/reading them, actually.

I can't find a transcript of the whole thing, but I feel like the "You can talk, you can talk, you’re brave now motherfucker" line points to my reading (of why Richards went there). Maybe I'm wrong, though.

xpost Nabisco, the thing is, I think the "psychosis" you describe -- an assumption that black people get away with everything and can't be criticized -- is exactly what Richards is tapping into! I mean, it makes a lot more sense to me than some other explanations.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:49 (eighteen years ago)

(of why he went there, I mean -- why he specifically attacked the guys' blackness)

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

i think the audience was laughing at least in part because some of them thought it was funny that a celebrity was revealed to be a fuckup and was prostrating himself and trying to be sincere. they were more interested in that than racism.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:51 (eighteen years ago)

(the letterman audience, that is)

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:51 (eighteen years ago)

Nabisco is the wind beneath my wings.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

but to merely leave it at that fails to examine whether they aren't motivated by different impulses

i think the suspicion is that they're not motivated by different impulses. that the impulse is maybe the same. the action is different, of course, and michael richards is a long way from being guilty of lynching. but it is exactly the recognition of the impulse that makes this an issue.

I'm still inclined to think that "murderer" and "racist" occupy different categories, that the first is an unavoidable label that one assumes after one has committed a cut-and-dry crime

ever talk to a convicted murderer? they always have excuses and reasons and context too. they don't want to be judged and labeled on their one mistake either. i mean, not there isn't a categorical difference between killing someone and acting like a bigot. of course there is. i just think the obsession with whether someone is "really" a racist puts the emphasis in the wrong place. for the purposes of this analogy, michael richards is basically a charged and convicted racist. he can do his time, do some penance, maybe somehow discharge a debt to society. but, you know, this goes on his permanent record and there's no way around it.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

jaymc if nothing else murder is a specific physical act whereas racism manifests in several ways so i separate them categorically on that basis alone.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

Has no one quoted Avenue Q yet? Crazy.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

altho you could argue that 'attempted murder' still proves that someone is a murderer (i'm not going to, certainly not here).

altho it could be a good excuse to post pics of samantha morton

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:54 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

"You think I won't call you on this because you're black."

Like, general info for white people: NO BLACK PEOPLE EVER THINK THIS. AT ALL. Given the whole history of this country, I'd say black people are by and large going to tend to think the opposite -- that people will single them out for criticism and mistreatment because they're black. Imagining that black people are operating from a position of smug privilege on this point is -- honestly, seriously, for reals -- absolute paranoia on the part of white people. Like completely insane schizophrenia-level radios-in-my-teeth paranoia.

Lurker it's not what he's "tapping into," it's what he'd appear to be fucking experiencing, flat-out. And like I said above, I don't even want to dignify this with any kind of "oh was it actually bad what he said" wrangling: dude gets annoyed with some black people and his best shot back is "lynch the niggers?" He's looking at black people, searching for an attack, and that's the image that flashes into his head? Honestly: anyone on this board who doesn't get why that's just flat-out indefensibly disgustingly wrong is someone I don't want to talk to ever again.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:54 (eighteen years ago)

I mean, I agree -- that assumption is huge among white folks. Lots and lots of the suburban white people I've known from places like the Main Line and the DC area's tony suburbs -- the kind of people who vote Republican and drive SUVs, to indulge in a massive stereotype -- basically work under this assumption. They don't really buy the "OMG lucky black people living it up with hos in hot tubs and are cooler than white people and better at sex and can beat you up" part, but they certainly do buy the "black people get away with everything and can't be criticized" part, and they resent it deeply. It's like the touchstone of their antipathy towards blacks, frankly.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:54 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

anyone on this board who doesn't get why that's just flat-out indefensibly disgustingly wrong is someone I don't want to talk to ever again

I think you're arguing with phantoms, no one (least of all me) is saying that it's anything but flat-out indefensibly disgustingly wrong.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:55 (eighteen years ago)

Elvis Costello should do a benefit concert for Richards. "Misunderstood Gawky White Guy Aid 2006."

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

And "tapping into" meant "in himself", in his psyche -- I agree that "experiencing" is a less ambiguous way of putting that.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:57 (eighteen years ago)

They don't really buy the "OMG lucky black people living it up with hos in hot tubs and are cooler than white people and better at sex and can beat you up" part, but they certainly do buy the "black people get away with everything and can't be criticized" part, and they resent it deeply.

Huh?

― VALLEY OF BLIZZARDZ (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:57 (eighteen years ago)

ever talk to a convicted murderer? they always have excuses and reasons and context too. they don't want to be judged and labeled on their one mistake either.

Yeah, that's why I cried during that This American Life episode where the prisoners put on Hamlet.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:58 (eighteen years ago)

Right, this is exactly what I'm talking about -- the idea that we accept that you can't hit back in the same way. Because I think (and I may be totally wrong here) that's actually central to Richards's meltdown! He basically is saying "You think I won't call you on this because you're black", I think that's the thing he's tapping into.

If that's the case, then Richards was executing a preemptive attack, because he wasn't responding to racist comments--kind of the Bush Doctrine of racial pejoratives.

And who the fuck are all these people just itching to get back by "responding in kind". I mean, WTF?!?!

And how about, when this actually does happen, saying something like, "That's uncalled for."

I mean, seriously, I'm not crying for myself because I don't "get" to say the shit Richards said.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:58 (eighteen years ago)

i think the suspicion is that they're not motivated by different impulses. that the impulse is maybe the same.

i think it's an assumption not a suspicion. and maybe it's right. but it seems unexamined to me.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:58 (eighteen years ago)

"He was just tapping into the common male urge to choke a bitch."

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 16:58 (eighteen years ago)

I mean, seriously, I'm not crying for myself because I don't "get" to say the shit Richards said.

Well, nor am I. I don't think that anyone's arguing that Richards speaks for white people at large. But I think that his meltdown comes from a very specific cultural complex, one that he shares with a lot of white people, and one that Nabisco pretty much nails right on the head.

xpost "tapping into", poor choice of words, fine OK great

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:00 (eighteen years ago)

ever talk to a convicted murderer? they always have excuses and reasons and context too. they don't want to be judged and labeled on their one mistake either.

the law takes 'passion' into account in dealing with murder, and there is often also such a thing as an insanity defense. i think it's appropriate to judge and label people, but i don't think that should be done without care. and i admit to not having a particularly retributive conception of justice.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:01 (eighteen years ago)

nabisco mentions paranoia but the paranoia runs both ways (NOT to equal amounts) with the whole 'race card playing' (a few people on ILE mentioned the other week occasions on public transport where they are angrily told 'you wouldn't say that if i wasn't black' just because they'd criticised that person for not enabling someone to sit next to them on the bus or turn their mobile phone music down. that sort of thing happens every day and only worsens things).

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:03 (eighteen years ago)

I like how people are talking like we collectively on ILX will decide whether or not Kramer will be sent to Sanctuary. Even if he has trouble getting nightclub bookings for the next few years I'm sure he will be comforted by his giant piles of money. There's no legal proceedings involved here, folks.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

I mean worst come to worst I'm sure he can get on Blue Collar Comedy now.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:05 (eighteen years ago)

hahahahahahaha

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:05 (eighteen years ago)

i just think the obsession with whether someone is "really" a racist puts the emphasis in the wrong place.

Okay -- but so if we downplay whether someone is "really" a racist, that means there's a fuckload of racists out there, including everyone who harbors subconscious prejudices, which is probably most people on this board. At what point does his racism transcend everyday racism far enough for him to acquire the label "racist"? The point has to exist, otherwise the term is largely meaningless.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:07 (eighteen years ago)

i won't stand for larry the cable guy to be spoken about in the same sentence with an avowed racist like michael richards

― my teeth are horrible, I'm gaining weight, I don't understand twelve-tone (dubpl, Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:07 (eighteen years ago)

"Like, general info for white people: NO BLACK PEOPLE EVER THINK THIS. AT ALL. Given the whole history of this country, I'd say black people are by and large going to tend to think the opposite -- that people will single them out for criticism and mistreatment because they're black. Imagining that black people are operating from a position of smug privilege on this point is -- honestly, seriously, for reals -- absolute paranoia on the part of white people. Like completely insane schizophrenia-level radios-in-my-teeth paranoia."

god this is so otm, tho unlike lurker I wouldn't characterize this is as an SUV-drivin' republican thing. it's a CRAZY WHITE PEOPLE thing. i am a really apathetic and jaded guy who normally cannot get worked up abt any kind of injustice or inequality (esp. when they don't really effect me personally lmao :() yet it drives me nuts when I hear this psycho shit from white people. there's a huuuuge spectrum of white folks who are just ACHING for a chance to show how marginalized they are by the blax and it drives me NUTS, maybe just from an excuse me wtf r u doing/crazy pills angle.

― SCOTTIE PIPPEN'S WEDDING (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:07 (eighteen years ago)

If that's the case, then Richards was executing a preemptive attack, because he wasn't responding to racist comments--kind of the Bush Doctrine of racial pejoratives.

I think you're probably OTM, actually, and this is what's really telling about Richards' outburst -- the fact that he seized on their blackness, that he located his antipathy towards them, and attack on them, in it. What I get from watching the tape isn't a sense of hatred per se, but of resentment that suddenly explodes out of nowhere -- of someone who got their buttons pushed and totally, irrationally detonates, for reasons even they don't fully understand. And who then tries to backpedal by knitting it into some sub-Kaufman thing.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

which is probably most people on this board.

Do tell us which!

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

xpost Yeah the Republican position now is "I don't see color."

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

i don't think we should reject that approach if it happens to be true (which it probably is). but i'm not sure whether publicly playing up that approach is an effective way of addressing the issue (does the self-examination sufficiently outweigh the backlash?).

there's a huuuuge spectrum of white folks who are just ACHING for a chance to show how marginalized they are by the blax

sure, but i don't think richards is one of these people or that that was what he was saying

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

At what point does his racism transcend everyday racism far enough for him to acquire the label "racist"? The point has to exist, otherwise the term is largely meaningless.

it's tempting to ponder whether this one incident makes him 'more of a racist' than someone who harboured bad thoughts about a race of people for years and years without actually speaking out about it or acting on it in any significant way...but trying to establish specific parameters and the marker points on a sliding scale can only remain in the speculative and theoretical so there seems little point in the end.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

the "very specific cultural complex" many white people have with black people = "they certainly do buy the 'black people get away with everything and can't be criticized' part, and they resent it deeply. It's like the touchstone of their antipathy towards blacks, frankly" = "i can't believe i'm not allowed to be racist!"

ffs

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:12 (eighteen years ago)

i can't believe i'm not allowed to be racist!

spreads straight from the fridge!

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:15 (eighteen years ago)

but trying to establish specific parameters and the marker points on a sliding scale can only remain in the speculative and theoretical so there seems little point in the end.

So basically "fuck it, he's a racist"?

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

there's a huuuuge spectrum of white folks who are just ACHING for a chance to show how marginalized they are by the blax

I don't think it's even necessarily "marginalized" (though there's LOTS of that sentiment), but just this sense that...that black people think of themselves as entitled, somehow. I remember someone telling me that "the black people at my workplace screw around and don't work as hard as the rest of us, but they get away with it because the boss is afraid that he'll be charged with racism if he fires them". Stuff like that.

xpost Yeah, but Tracer, this is something very distinct from, say, the "blacks-are-innately-inferior" type of racism, or even the "all blacks are thugs and welfare queens" style. It's a distinction worth making and naming, I think -- if only because it's a subtler, more widespread, and more socially acceptable form of racism.

xxpost LOL!

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

HAY FAGGNEB DID I MENTION MICHAEL RICHARDS NO SIR I DID NOT

― SCOTTIE PIPPEN'S WEDDING (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:17 (eighteen years ago)

The difference to me, Steve, is that black American paranoia about mistreatment is based on hundreds of years of active official abuse and enslavement and murder, including things like lynching only a generation or two ago, and extending in subtler forms into the present day, and as such it's kind of less an irrational paranoia and more like a closely held narrative that's not always very helpful in explaining everyday stuff.

Whereas white American paranoia about black privilege is based on complete irrational psychosis, deliberate idiocy, convenient ignorance, self-serving lies, self-serving ahistorical thinking, stupid cultural fetishization, general ass-backward insanity, and just plain douchebaggery.

At what point does his racism transcend everyday racism far enough for him to acquire the label "racist"? The point has to exist, otherwise the term is largely meaningless.

Hey J, do you think a nice non-meaningless place to locate that point might be just this side of standing in public yelling about lynching niggers? I mean, c'mon, we don't spend this much time stressing out on every thread, being all like "well he fixes cars, but I don't know if that makes him a mechanic" -- it's pointless and distracting to respond to stuff like this by getting all metaphysical about racist actions versus racist people, and all it tends to accomplish is to act as a rhetorical smokescreen for the asshole in question to hide behind. Cf Richards' apology! "The insane thing about this is that I'm not a racist -- it just so happens that when I get annoyed with black people, the first thing I remind them of is this nation's long history of brutal disregard for their lives."

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:19 (eighteen years ago)

HAY DUDES WHO IS URI FRIEMFNFKSPLORFT AND WHY DO THEY THINK I AM NABLUBSCO

From : Uri Frendimein
Sent : Tuesday, November 21, 2006 12:19 PM
To : adelangston@hotmail.com
Subject : BLACK PEOPLE NEVER THINK THIS. AT ALL.

Go to previous message | Go to next message | Delete | Inbox

Wow, guess you've never heard of macho insecurity??? Please stop with the bullshit conjecture already.

― SCOTTIE PIPPEN'S WEDDING (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:21 (eighteen years ago)

So basically "fuck it, he's a racist"?

no jaymc i just think it ends up in a tail-chasing merry-go-round. i'm a cynic.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:22 (eighteen years ago)

Nabisco, I don't think it's fair to conflate the question "Is Richards a racist?" with "Where did this outburst come from, what does it reflect?"

"The insane thing about this is that I'm not a racist", yeah, that made me cringe to say the least. "And check out my website, www.blackpeopleloveus.com!"

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:22 (eighteen years ago)

I think this thread has long since served it's purpose, y'all.

― VALLEY OF BLIZZARDZ (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:23 (eighteen years ago)

Thanks for letting us know. We'll be in touch.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:24 (eighteen years ago)

Fine, continue to piss all over yourselves like over hydrated senior citizens.

― VALLEY OF BLIZZARDZ (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:25 (eighteen years ago)

"Mechanic" does not have anywhere near the same charge as "racist" does. But fine: I'll drop it.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:26 (eighteen years ago)

"Mechanic" does not have anywhere near the same charge as "racist" does.

THAT'S WHAT YOU THINK

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:27 (eighteen years ago)

When you wet the bed, first it is warm then it gets cold.

xpost

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:27 (eighteen years ago)

Richards wasn't helping his case any last night talking about how his "rage" interferes with the "Afro-Americans" and Katrina.

And for all of those saying that anyone can say a patently offensive word over and over again and NOT be a racist, then I hope you petition the moderators to unban Jay Blanchard. He only used a bad word once.

And I don't think you can be a Jewish Mason. Unless you're Jackie Mason.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

HAY DUDES WHO IS URI FRIEMFNFKSPLORFT AND WHY DO THEY THINK I AM NABLUBSCO

That's Nude Spock and he's emailing you because he got banned from posting. He thinks you're Nabisco because he's not very bright.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

Nabisco, I don't think it's fair to conflate the question "Is Richards a racist?" with "Where did this outburst come from, what does it reflect?"

WTF, lurker, people's aren't just "conflating," they're offering one fairly basic answer to the question:

"where this outburst came from" = "Richards' racism"
"what it reflects" = "Richards' racism"

That's a very simplistic, straightforward answer, but that doesn't mean it isn't accurate.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:30 (eighteen years ago)

If he was a beloved member of the community, you can bet that people would have petitioned the moderators a long time ago. But no, he was always kind of annoying.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:30 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah he emailed me again and was like LOL THANKS 4 POSTING THAT I AM BANNED and i was like ":'(" guess I fell asleep in trolling 101!

― SCOTTIE PIPPEN'S WEDDING (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:31 (eighteen years ago)

what a coincidence

xpost

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:33 (eighteen years ago)

to ask "is Richards racist?" after viewing the clip is just stupid - obviously he is, I mean...fuckin', how can one say "oh, maybe we didn't really fully grok [sorry] where he was comin' from?" his racism is right there for all to see. I wonder if the trouble is that people mean "yes, but does that mean he's a total asshole" - which is a fair question, I think: I mean, there's an argument, which I find somewhat compelling, that any white person in the u.s. harbors some degree of racism, that it's inherent in the social structure/weight of history/ideological-state-apparatus [double sorry]. So, white people don't want to say "I'm irredeemable," right; and want to excuse this sort of thing on some grounds in order to avoid the ick that they may themselves host.

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:35 (eighteen years ago)

I like the way you wrapped that up, "Tommy"

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:36 (eighteen years ago)

I think being a racist isn't very easily comparable to being a mechanic, Nabisco, and I think jaymc's point is one about subtlety. The fact, after over 500 years of sytematic degradation, injustice, including lynching, and police collusion against African-Americans, that some people are un-interested in subtleties doesn't mean that they're not there.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:37 (eighteen years ago)

Nabisco: no, but this --

I mean, c'mon, we don't spend this much time stressing out on every thread, being all like "well he fixes cars, but I don't know if that makes him a mechanic"

-- makes it sound like you're conflating "let's think about this and figure out what's going on here" with "let's find a way to excuse Richards' behavior". Like you're pissed off that people aren't just posting "OMG what an asshole I hope he never works again".

And I hope that's not the case, because what you brought up about white resentment and fantasies of black privilege was probably useful to more than one person here.

xpost the problem with this perspective --

white people don't want to say "I'm irredeemable," right

-- is that it guarantees that racial harmony and peace and blahblahblah will never, ever, ever happen. Generally speaking if you accuse someone of an indelible original sin, a guilt they can never extirpate except through self-negation, they have nothing to gain from playing along...so they tend to respond with hatred, violence, and rage.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:38 (eighteen years ago)

Thomas -- it's odd to me that you think that "asshole" is a more damning charge than "racist."

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:40 (eighteen years ago)

If he was a beloved member of the community, you can bet that people would have petitioned the moderators a long time ago. But no, he was always kind of annoying.

SO WAS KRAMER.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:41 (eighteen years ago)

thank you, "euai"

is that it guarantees that racial harmony and peace and blahblahblah will never, ever, ever happen.

no, in fact the opposite is true: you can't make any progress until you own up to the problem and tell the truth about it

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:41 (eighteen years ago)

in summary:

Who's worse?
Michael Richards 68%
Mel Gibson 32%
Total Votes: 145,939

― Good-Time Slim, Uncle Doobie, and the Great 'Frisco Freak-Out (sixteen sergeants, Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:41 (eighteen years ago)

Racism is learned, assholism is performed.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:42 (eighteen years ago)

no, in fact the opposite is true: you can't make any progress until you own up to the problem and tell the truth about it

Perhaps then you didn't mean to use the word "irredeemable".

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:42 (eighteen years ago)

oh no, that's what I meant all right

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:44 (eighteen years ago)

I'll give you $20 if you call your next album "White People are Irredeemable".

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:47 (eighteen years ago)

I mean it's an agency thing, right? Some people are being like "look how Richards is an example of the inexorable forces of history and society" and other are like, "Buh? You want to use Michael Richards to talk about this? OK." The question isn't whether what he said was racist, cause duh, or what broad social trends he represents, because who cares, but the degree to which he lost control. Was it a deliberate strategy badly applied, or a loss of control? The assumption was the latter, Richards seemed to sorta be arguing the former. And so is that accurate/valid, is the ensuing question. Could be racism or sexism or atheism, don't matter all that much.

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:47 (eighteen years ago)

So, white people don't want to say "I'm irredeemable," right; and want to excuse this sort of thing on some grounds in order to avoid the ick that they may themselves host.

I do think there's something to this. For me, it's not about excusing what Richards did -- it's obv. inexcusable -- but my whole goal on this thread to downplay the usage of the term "racist" as a noun is probably partly due to the way that that term implies irredeemability, esp. since I don't want to think that whatever hurtful things I'm capable of make me irredeemable.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:50 (eighteen years ago)

(I mean, Thomas, I like your motets and all, but you do realize that you're basically owning up to the fantasy of every rabid right-wing commentator and militia member -- that the Left's agenda is to see white males subjugated, writhing in the dirt, as punishment for their sins?)

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:51 (eighteen years ago)

aaaand scene.

too late, lurker

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:52 (eighteen years ago)

lol ade did i ever tell you that story about that graffiti in alabama?

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:53 (eighteen years ago)

Dammit, I'm always too late

Eppy and Jaymc OTM, though

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:54 (eighteen years ago)

Oh noes, what have I done

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:55 (eighteen years ago)

People in the Letterman laughed because Richards used the word "Afro Americans" in the first line of his apology. His racial anachronism made him seem deadpan and therefore "funny." In his involvement with the Freemasons, I'm sure he's been continuously up to neck in weird, mystical shit from hundreds of years ago and surrounded by a sorts of alienated and powerful old-guy creeps to disassociate himself from contemporary reality. He probably believes in his conscious mind that he's doing cosmic "good works" and maybe there is some Masonic "conspiracy" to "help the Katrina victims" and counter racism, but the history of Freemasonry and slavery is too intertwined for him ignore. On some level, in his delusion, he's probably thinking, "Hey, we freed you fuckers, so us some respect." It's some paternalistic bullshit at best and illustrates the decadent shambles of his organization. He's bought a line his soul can't pay for.

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

First of all, behavior is all we can go by. Second, the goal in identifying racism isn't to slap a label on somebody -- as in the witch hunts. The goal IS to curtail certain types of behavior, and to hopefully reflect on ourselves as well. The obsession of some people to affirm that someone IS a racist or ISN'T misses the point. The point being that many of us have a shitload of racist material floating around at various levels, more or less conscious, of our psyches. And that episodes such as the Richards one show, if anything, how that material will spew up to wound others when the surface cracks.

― Collardio Gelatinous (collardio), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 17:59 (eighteen years ago)

No, my point re: mechanics is that in every other circumstance in the universe, we understand that there are small complicated differences between Doing Something and Being Something, but we don't spend an eternity stressing out over them. If I say something horrible, and Jaymc says "you're an asshole," we don't sit around worrying over whether I'm an actual asshole or whether I was just acting like an asshole. If a dude fixes my car, I say "he's a mechanic," and we don't feel a need to point out that he could quit and get a job at the phone company, and then he'd be a customer service agent, not a mechanic. That would be pointless obfuscation that only served to distract from the plain original fact that the dude fixed my car.

So I dunno, when someone gets pissed off in public and starts yelling about lynching the niggers and it appears that he both (a) kind of dug that one up earnestly and (b) thinks there's anything funny or interesting about it and (c) intends it to hurt and show power over people -- the guy was trying to put down and shut up people by using racial slurs and reminders of racial oppression! -- I think it's probably fair to just go "hey, look at the racist," and not get our panties in a knot like we're on some sort of racial linguistics panel.

Sorry, xpost

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:00 (eighteen years ago)

Let's say somebody on this board, who I know to be black, criticized me thusly:

Dude, my roommate says you're not funny.

And I responded with:

50 years ago, you'd be hanging upside down with a fork in your ass! He's a n***er! He's a n***er! He's a n***er!

To which he responded:

That was uncalled for. Seriously, STFU, white boy.

And then a third poster wrote:

Hey what's the big deal? Why are you rushing to judge him? I bet nobody's going to criticize the black man for his racism. The white guy was just giving vent to a common frustration that white people feel about black privilege.

I mean, seriously, you'd think that last response was pretty fucked up, wouldn't you? Maybe Let's say somebody on this board, who I know to be black, criticized me thusly:

Dude, my roommate says you're not funny.

And I responded with:

50 years ago, you'd be hanging upside down with a fork in your ass! He's a n***er! He's a n***er! He's a n***er!

To which he responded:

That was uncalled for. Seriously, STFU, white boy.

And then a third poster wrote:

I mean, seriously, you'd think that last response was pretty fucked up, wouldn't you?Let's say somebody on this board, who I know to be black, criticized me thusly:

Dude, my roommate says you're not funny.

And I responded with:

50 years ago, you'd be hanging upside down with a fork in your ass! He's a n***er! He's a n***er! He's a n***er!

To which he responded:

That was uncalled for. Seriously, STFU, white boy.

And then a third poster wrote:

Hey what's the big deal? Why are you rushing to judge him? Is he really a racist? I bet nobody's going to criticise the black guy for his racist comment. Why can blacks get away with it and not whites? The white guy was just giving vent to common frustration that white people feel about black privilege.

I mean, seriously, you'd think that last response was pretty fucked up, wouldn't you?

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:03 (eighteen years ago)

P.S. also the term "racist" only implies being irredeemable if you happen to believe that, well, racists are irredeemable, or that people can't change -- but of course there are even neo-Nazis who change their minds and try to atone for things, and neo-Nazis seem to be the only people in America some people on this board are comfortable labeling "racist."

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

Haha also yes, I think that last response to this thread got fucked up, somewhere along the line.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:05 (eighteen years ago)

No one would argue with that, Fluffy Bear.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:05 (eighteen years ago)

nabisco did i ever tell you about that graffiti in alabama? it's pertinent to discussion and amusing perhaps.

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:05 (eighteen years ago)

YES YES I WOULD, OK ALREADY

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:07 (eighteen years ago)

i wanna hear about the graffiti

― geoff (gcannon), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:08 (eighteen years ago)

you can be a Jewish mason, there are lots of Jewish masons. Only religious requirement is that you're monotheistic. There are muslim freemasons as well.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:08 (eighteen years ago)

Stop talking ABOUT talking about the graffiti and just tell us about it, already!

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:09 (eighteen years ago)

P.S. also the term "racist" only implies being irredeemable if you happen to believe that, well, racists are irredeemable, or that people can't change

I don't think that anyone's irredeemable, but the way that other people use the word "racist" makes me think that they do, which is why I hesitate to use it. A lot of the time, I *do* get a "witch hunt" vibe rather than a "helpful learning experience" vibe. This could all be a huge misunderstanding, though.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:10 (eighteen years ago)

he only wants to tell nabisco

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:10 (eighteen years ago)

And ade! And that's only this morning!

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:11 (eighteen years ago)

Whoah. That was fucked up. (xpost to me)

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:11 (eighteen years ago)

Only religious requirement is that you're monotheistic.

You can't be a freemason if you're Catholic, since bead-fumblers adhere to the power of confession. That's how all those Knights of Columbus halls got started.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

xxxxxxxxxxpost
Whenever anyone says out loud "I'm not a racist" red flags red flags

Aren't we all racists to some extent? Don't we all harbour assumptions about groups of people? When someone says "SUV-driving Republican" they are in a sense being racist or classist or some kind of -ist.

I think what he did was really horrible and unforgiveable and I don't feel bad for him if he never gets work again.

I just think whether or not someone bears the label "racist" is irrelevant. Maybe he's a worse racist than many, although not as bad a racist as the people who beat people up or scare people away from polls.

His apology seemed sincere - and I appreciated that his answer to what he would do now was "personal work" cuz he does need to do some soul-searching -- maybe out of this will come something good. Maybe he'll set up a fund or some other good work.

I still think too that it was an act gone awry. He was doing improv - he got into the role of the white belittled man lashing out at the black guy, trying to grasp at the former power when he was "the man" - and he let it go too far. That's not to say there's an excuse for it.

Comedy clubs are where it's okay to touch nerves. Comedians are the ones who lay bare our discomfort. He started some kind of national dialogue, if not a race war, that is bigger than him and probably good to have - so in the end, I don't think it was such a bad thing.

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

i'm amazed that this story is still going. i'm also amazed that while it seems 50% of the country is talking about this, the other 50% is talking about o.j. simpson.

we've come a long way, baby.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:14 (eighteen years ago)

Not that it makes a blind bit of difference, but I would love to know what those guys said to him that made him absolutely flip out like that. I mean, I'm sure he was dying on his arse, and I'm sure that they were saying more or less the same things they were saying to him on their way out of the club, about him being a loser and being nothing after Kramer and so on, but I'd love to know if any one of them said anything that might give a clue as to why he went the race direction or if he really just pulled it out of the blue like that.

Please, please don't think I'm trying to excuse him. Even if they had said anything, it would not excuse what happened, but I would be curious to know.

― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:14 (eighteen years ago)

after seeing the letterman clip i'm changing my diagnosis from frustrated secret racist to disturbed narcissist w/racist tendencies.

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:18 (eighteen years ago)

I think he was on a rage binge mixed with the weird sense of omnipotence only a person once famous can be deluded by and went batshit.

But like Gibson with his incident, the fact that his rage binge and batshittedness manifested in these remarks...well, shit like that doesn't come out of nowhere.

― Grey, Ian (IanBrooklyn), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:19 (eighteen years ago)

in other 'amerikkka eats its young' news...

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:23 (eighteen years ago)

the fact that his rage binge and batshittedness manifested in these remarks...well, shit like that doesn't come out of nowhere.

That's what strikes me about this. Maybe what the heckler said to him was so bad it made him blow off & go into some sort of mad tirade, but to come out with that? So fucked up.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:24 (eighteen years ago)

I was only IMing those boys because I was drunk.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:25 (eighteen years ago)

thx geoff!

(ok tying into weird white paranoia ade or nabisco - i get em confused - were mentioning above) there's this one highway exit near auburn alabama that pretty much from what i can tell all ga bulldogs fans are gonna hit anytime the auburn-ga game is there (context), one of the last exits before you're back in ga. i'm driving back thru alabama late one night and i stop at this exit for gas and to use the john and inside the restroom is just an insane amount of lengthy detailed like unabomber manifesto level stuff from different people or pens at least about how 1) blacks run alabama (different term than 'blacks' used obv) 2) blacks have it so easy in alabama and get away with stuff that liberals won't let whites get away 3) and this is why alabama isn't better off. it was damn near a detailed position paper on pro-segregation, anti-affirmative action, o if only whites had the same rights that blacks take for granted, and how come they get to use the n word btw. literally four walls covered with the stuff. and then, the saving grace that saved me from being merely repulsed/terrified by it and amplified how happy i was gonna be to be back in ga (where of course we don't have racism lol), written above this mess above the toilet oblivious of the surrounding white rage: "GO DAWGS!!!"

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:27 (eighteen years ago)

for the brits: blacks don't run alabama, not actually responsible for alabama not being better off

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

blount, i saw an almost-exact-same restroom treatise on black people in kingston, ontario of all places. y'know, where there's hardly any black people!

white people be fucked up and weird, film at 11.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

Did it say "GO DAWGS"?

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:29 (eighteen years ago)

Because that would be the weird bit, you see.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:29 (eighteen years ago)

it's gonna be so weird if KRAMER provokes the 'open, honest national discussion about race' that katrina famously didn't. if bush or pelosi feel compelled to comment on this eventually i'm gonna lmao. this fucking country.

lol the ontario one said 'GO ARGONAUTS!!!'

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:30 (eighteen years ago)

naw it had some sort of hockey bullshit on there, i don't understand that crap.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

the biggest hockey fan i know is from alabama! admittedly 'biggest hockey fan i know' not a tough title to claim. not like 'biggest racist i know' lol.

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

Quick omnibus post:

I mean, seriously, you'd think that last response was pretty fucked up, wouldn't you?

I would! It's a good thing, then, that no one made that argument. (Describing a phenomenon isn't the same as arguing on behalf of it, or making excuses for it.)

No, I think you're OTM, and this is what troubles me about the word "racist" -- the witch-hunt, otherizing vibe of it (ironically enough). I don't know there's any way around it, though -- in other words, I don't know there's any way to make "racism" a strongly negative value, as it should be, without making "racists" a category of (in essence) non-persons, the Evil Other, people outside the social contract who Aren't Like Us who it's OK to hate. And I don't find that impulse trustworthy.

I would love to know what those guys said to him that made him absolutely flip out like that.

I think we all would, yeah.

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

(I have to say, though -- "the Evil Other, people outside the social contract who Aren't Like Us who it's OK to hate" -- it's white people who do this, almost as if determined to purge the thing that hits close to home.)

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

LOL, hockey, who cares.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

No, my point re: mechanics is that in every other circumstance...

Fair enough, nabisco, and his outburst was alarming, though I've always thought of Richards as the kind of person I would avoid anyway due to plain weirdness, but the point that jaymc was making, I think, was that people are or are not mechanics in a much more concrete way than they are or are not racists. Everybody who's not a saint has said or thought something at somepoint in their lives that conflates indivduals with whole swathes of the population that share some historical or genetic similarity.

I also want to say that even as a mutt of European extraction, I don't understand the 'how come 'cracker' isn't as objectionable as nigger complaint'. First off, it strikes me as an argument for just the opposite: how come 'nigger' isn't as 'acceptable' as 'cracker'? Secondly, 'cracker' offends me but how can it be expected to carry the same threat of degradation, objectification, violence and oppression as 'nigger'? Implying I'm a racist by way of 'cracker' isn't the same thing as calling as referring to someone of African descent in a way that implies that they're hardly human and only good enough for servitude. Thirdly, it's not as if refraining from calling people hurtful epithets is based merely on some kind of racial truce. If calling me 'cracker' is tantamount to saying that I have carte blanche (see what I did there?) to say 'nigger' then it's special pleading by a racist, 'cause anyone else, without regard to the person's race, would say 'asshole'.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

Lurker OTM, as usual.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:36 (eighteen years ago)

i've seen semi-pro hockey games in mobile, alabama. it's not understandable to see why a game where 99.99999% of the participants are white would be sorta popular.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:38 (eighteen years ago)

popular among white people, i mean.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:39 (eighteen years ago)

Probably for the same reason that rodeo isn't quite as popular in MN as it is in CO.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:43 (eighteen years ago)

Who you callin' hockey?

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:44 (eighteen years ago)

rodeo's probably popular in some parts of mn!

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

"the Evil Other, people outside the social contract who Aren't Like Us who it's OK to hate" -- it's ~~white~~ people who do this

Fixed.

(It would be a shame if this was my only contribtion to the thread, but pretty much all of the rest of my views are "nabisco OTM". Hey, maybe that's what happened, Michael Richards had an fair and sensitive funny-till-it-hurts set all written, and Paul Rodrigeuz went on before him and stole it, leaving Richards to wander the untrodden paths...)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:47 (eighteen years ago)

pleasant plains what's the rzrbacks odds w/ the bcs? they pretty much screwed no matter what? "rodeo"s popular everywhere guys, garth brooks was like the biggest selling artist of the 90s.

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:47 (eighteen years ago)

blount otm re: rodeo and garth tho garth's pop much higher, obv. i hope arkansas wins the sec.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

If the "ignore" function was active, I'd be ignoring just about everybody on this thread except for hstencil.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

Are you a racist? Inbox
Uri Frendimein
Well... are you?

xxxxxxxxxxpost
Whenever anyone says out loud "I'm not a racist" red flags red flags

Reply Forward Invite Uri to chat

It depends on how you define racism. I find myself sometimes jumping to conclusions about people based on how they look. For instance, I'm surprised when someone who looks very middle class and conventional turns out to like edgy music. Yes, I'm a racist in that sense. Are you?

― Maria :D (Maria D.), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

I really want to hear "Rodeo" now. The only Garth I have in iTunes is "Thunder Rolls" - good, but no "Rodeo."

― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:50 (eighteen years ago)

xpost There's a reason he was banned, you know. So we wouldn't have to hear from him anymore.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

yo Maria he was banned for a reason! We know he's a moron.

― deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

― deej.. (deej..), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

i got friends in low places, like arkansas, ontario, etc.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:53 (eighteen years ago)

Ontario is much higher than NY, jorel.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

but kingston (the only place i've been in ont.) is really fuckin' country!

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.kingston.edu/images/logo-edu-200w.gif

― Allyzay Eisenschefter (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:00 (eighteen years ago)

it's a college town mixed with a rodeo town.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:01 (eighteen years ago)

if by rodeo you mean hockey, then yeah

kingston:canada::san pedro de macoris:dominican republic

(the baseball fans will understand this)

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

rodeo's probably popular in some parts of mn!
-- hstencil (hstenc!...), November 21st, 2006. (hstencil)

there were a couple of dudes in my high school that were into being pro rodeo riders (southern MN)..they were cool guys, absolutely crazy, they be all like "oh yeah i got a punctured lung no biggie" unreal.

― M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:05 (eighteen years ago)

yeah i had a lebanese-american friend growing up in louisville who i think tried some amateur rodeo riding until he got injured. funny weird stuff.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:06 (eighteen years ago)

one dude got all his teeth knocked out by a horn to the mouth.

but yeah i mean rodeo's not like huge in rural mn like it is out west, but we always had one at the county fair when i was a kid, i would always get excited for it...i won a Rondo (obscure mountain dew-ish brand of pop) there once at the fair rodeo in a raffle.

― M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago)

man it's really time for me to get a new handle if I can't do 5 fuckin posts without somebody named lurker talking about "my next album"

― Thomas Tallis (Tommy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

yeah i mean rodeo's not like huge in rural mn like it is out west

That's all I was sayin'.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:16 (eighteen years ago)

xpost - Who the fuck are you, anyway?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

he's the main dude from the decemberists

― M@tt He1geson: Sassy and I Don't Care Who Knows It (Matt Helgeson), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

his birth name is trevor smith but you may know him as busta rhymes.

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:23 (eighteen years ago)

he's Tupac, hiding out in the Bahamas.

― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

i thought it was shawn carter?!?!?

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.fireice.ca/dane%20cook%20with%20monkey.jpg

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

Arkansas obviously has to win out. There's a certain danger in looking ahead to FLA in the SEC title game and getting beat Friday by LSU. And USC needs to get beat by somebody. The realistic expectation should ARK win out would be a Sugar Bowl game versus Notre Dame or even a rematch with USC.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

thomas tallis is kip winger

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

GO MONKEY, GO!

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

Thomas, maybe they are talking about this?

http://www.singers.com/choral/choralimages3/TallisSpem200.gif

But yeah.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

xp Louis CK has monkey assassins?

― nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

thomas tallis is the monkey what murdered dane cook

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.tmz.com/media/2006/11/richards_letterman2_1121_27.jpg

AWKWARD lol

― am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:32 (eighteen years ago)

xpost which one?
http://www.pmpnetwork.com/mickey_dolenz/monkeys.jpg

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

Richards looks like Nader in that AWKWARD thumbnail

― nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:36 (eighteen years ago)

ralph nader's still the bigger asshole, though.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:37 (eighteen years ago)

That's almost worse than being a racist.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

http://scoopsnoodle.com/lix/thomastallis.jpg

― jhoshea megafauna (scoopsnoodle), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 19:55 (eighteen years ago)

needs a Parental Advisory sticker

― nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:04 (eighteen years ago)

Re: Letterman's audience and thier laughter.

His show gets taped at 4:00 PM EST. The audience is largley people who were standing in line to get in to the show and/or wandering around Manhattan doing tourist shit all day and not clicking "refresh" on tmz.com and reading 600 post threads on the topic. Even with a joke about it in the monologue or whatever, there's a good chance most people there really didn't know the context. And yeah, it was a super-weird idea to have his first public appearance be on Letterman, especially if they didn't fill the audience (both television and studio) in on what happened last week.

To me the saddest part is that I heard reports on the morning news today that when he returned to the club the following night, he was supposed to have made some kind of apology, but he didn't. He waited until Monday afternoon, and still seemed like he hadn't really come to terms with it himself. I may be reaching here, but it seems like he didn't realize what he did was so worng until the vieo was all over the internet and the half of the country that wasn't talking about OJ was talking about him.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:35 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTSX1NlQVCY

^ kelly ripa is a homophobe

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:46 (eighteen years ago)

Letterman did give an overview of the situation both in the monologue and in his conversation with Seinfeld before the interview w/Richards started. He just didn't really convey the severity of the offense--coulda been a "haha celebrity embarasses self" thing, in which case them coming on to apologize would be sorta funny, but since it was a string of racial epithets followed by a lynching reference it was actually kinda bad. So yeah, I think it's good that Seinfeld shushed 'em, but you're right that they probably didn't have a full understanding of the context.

Didn't Richards say something in his Letterman appearance about going back to the club and trying to make amends or something?

― Eppy (Eppy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:50 (eighteen years ago)

I wouldn't want Clay Aiken touching me either, he's a freak no matter what his sexuality is.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:52 (eighteen years ago)

i think clay aiken has a second eyelid

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

He is Thom Yorke's double, except his hair is somehow even uglier.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:54 (eighteen years ago)

NEW YORK — Kelly Ripa's definitely not a Claymate.

The talk show host went off on Aiken Monday morning on "Live With Regis and Kelly," saying "I don't think he was respectful in any way." She said Aiken was hostile toward her when they shared co-hosting duties on Friday's show.

She especially took issue with Aiken putting his hands over her mouth during an interview. She said you don't do that, even if it's for a laugh.

Ripa told Clay his actions were a "no, no," adding "I don't know where that hand's been, honey."

Regis Philbin said he's shocked the pair didn't hit it off, saying, "In my wildest dreams would I ever think that one day you would have a feud with Clay Aiken."

On The View" Tuesday, Rosie O'Donnell said Ripa's remark about Aiken's hand was homophobic. Aiken has been dogged by speculation about his sexuality but he's never answered.

― gear (gear), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:56 (eighteen years ago)

Both Kelly Ripa and Clay Aiken deserve to be thrown in wells.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter Pop You To The Extreme (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:57 (eighteen years ago)

so my people can be free

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:58 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.defamer.com/topic/clay-aiken.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

Thom Yorke too

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.ramblestrip.com/clay_im.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:01 (eighteen years ago)

That girl looks like she been punched in the back of the head one too many times.

xpost scott no

― Allyzay Eisenschefter Pop You To The Extreme (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:01 (eighteen years ago)

http://s129178457.onlinehome.us/celebritieseating/uploaded_images/77-791852.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:01 (eighteen years ago)

sorry! gotta run!

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:02 (eighteen years ago)

ever talk to a convicted murderer? they always have excuses and reasons and context too. they don't want to be judged and labeled on their one mistake either.

Wow, so you basically think that people who kill out of self-defense are the same as, say, Ted Bundy? I mean, there's context. That can go either way: speak in defense of the person who killed or against him/her.

I think it's hilarious Kelly said:"I don't know where his hand's been." Certainly not homophobic, just extremely silly.

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:05 (eighteen years ago)

btw, the LA Jewish Journal points out: NOT A JEW!

http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=16838

ralph nader's still the bigger asshole, though.

jorel channelling gabbneb?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:08 (eighteen years ago)

Paul Rodriguez was on the news this morning in a taped interview outside the comedy club going "its really sad to have a Jew making these kinds of commenst so soon after what Mel Gibson said about his people" (paraphrasing)

roffles.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:12 (eighteen years ago)

There's something extremely saddening about the quote "I’m not a racist, but it comes through."

― wordy rappinghood (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:13 (eighteen years ago)

the history of Freemasonry and slavery is too intertwined for him ignore
W. T. F.!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Hall

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:24 (eighteen years ago)

jorel channelling gabbneb?

-- Dr Morbius (wjwe...), November 21st, 2006 9:08 PM. (Dr Morbius) (later)

no, channelling everyone who would like to punch him (and by extension, you) for giving us 8 years of dubya. thanks, dick.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

but of course we've covered that in other threads. back to the racism!

(i liked this thread better when it was about rodeo, hockey and football)

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:28 (eighteen years ago)

all thanks to the Dems and their dickless strawman candidates. (I still vote in New York where prez votes are literally meaningless)

I still think a crowd that came to see Paul Rodriguez is selectively offended.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:29 (eighteen years ago)

lets be fair theres plenty of other reasons people want to punch dr morbius

― anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:30 (eighteen years ago)

xposty: sterling, read that article again

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:32 (eighteen years ago)

I still maintain that you're a little wee bit of a liberal-guilt racist but you don't see ME posting it three times to this thread. xpost.

― Allyzay Eisenschefter Pop You To The Extreme (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:34 (eighteen years ago)

any idea what that means? didn't think so.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:42 (eighteen years ago)

Wow, so you basically think that people who kill out of self-defense are the same as, say, Ted Bundy? I mean, there's context.

belaboring the point, but people who legitimately kill in self-defense are often not convicted of murder. "convicted murderer" is someone who, whatever their claims of context or extenuating circumstances, has been judged guilty of murder.

anyway, in this case, there's no contextual basis for saying richards is not a racist. i'm sorry if it pains people to call people who give racist rants "racist," but for the word to have any meaning i think we probably have to.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:44 (eighteen years ago)

xpost
i'm just saying the matter is quite a bit more complicated, & as i recall, segregated or not (and they never all were) freemason lodges tended to land on the side of abolitionism.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:47 (eighteen years ago)

what are masons even about anymore? i figured it was about as illuminati as being in the kiwanis or some shit

― geoff (gcannon), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:49 (eighteen years ago)

Adversary to thread.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 21:55 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.defamer.com/topic/clay-aiken.jpg
LOL BEN LINUS IS A FREAK

― stoked for the madness (nickalicious), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 22:03 (eighteen years ago)

xposty: right, but scrolling back through masonry's "rich heritage" we certainly have masonic slave-owners. A recent zealot mason like Richards would probably be aware of the entire history enough to cop a superior attitude, like "we freed the slaves, you know." That whole bit where Richards says the key to masonry is "know thyself" seems fairly ironic as it's clear he either doesn't know shit or is up to creepy shenanigans wrt race relations.

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 22:03 (eighteen years ago)

if you go on a tour of the grand hall in philly by city hall you get to see george washington's masonic apron. i highly recommend it. it's an amazing building. like, awesome.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 22:15 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.knitemare.org/cats/270907182_ef25ba42de.jpg
^^this thread

― Allyzay Eisenschefter Pop You To The Extreme (allyzay), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:07 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/02E1C582-9A91-4390-AB23-1D5F4F3C4738/0/dont_improvise_697x984.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:18 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/1C575266-2BBD-49DA-B88E-0E925AB01A46/0/dont_let_routine_696x984.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:19 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C2FB0FC2-670B-4CFD-B6C9-F22402F35E6C/0/personal_problems_695x984.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:21 (eighteen years ago)

ok, that first one is a bit odd

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:30 (eighteen years ago)

more anti-jazz proopaganda!

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:30 (eighteen years ago)

the first one looks like michael richards with a moustache.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:32 (eighteen years ago)

Brokeback Mountain reference, innit?

― Through a twenty deep screen of humourists (noodle vague), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:32 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.geology.iastate.edu/ams/images/school_poster_winner_3.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:36 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.wolfenews.com/images/BestSlo.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:38 (eighteen years ago)

It's funny how one of the most contentious threads in recent ILx history has the phrase "Weird-o-Rama" in the title.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:41 (eighteen years ago)

Basic Instrcutions Before Leaving Earth

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 23:42 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.fototime.com/B50DBF51B29E940/orig.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:00 (eighteen years ago)

Just as it is important to look behind the mask of a comedian like Red Skelton and to see the heart of a great man, Richards says of Masonry, "We must look behind the symbols to see the heart of their meaning. What does a symbol stand for? How do I translate that idea into my life?"

Like Jacques Cousteau diving in the sea, Richards says, "Masons must search the deepest parts of themselves, within any organization, to discover the uniqueness of their life unfolding."

Richards is not alone in his convictions. Past Grand Master Jack Levitt recently wrote: "Freemasonry's truths are covered with symbolism and its insights with allegory. It is necessary to look behind the fact to see the truth and beyond the symbol to see the reality."

And as Richards would say, the reality is you. "A Freemason is a man building up himself, coming into his own to highlight the individual that he is," he says.

When I ask Richards what symbol in Freemasonry strikes him as being especially important, he says, "When you go into our Lodge, on the back of the Tiler's chair are the words 'Know Thyself.' That's important. That is the ultimate message to all Freemasons; to truly know who you are."

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:05 (eighteen years ago)

"As Cosmo Kramer in "Seinfeld," Richards played one on TV. But he himself is not Jewish -- not that there's anything wrong with that."

"The real Kramer is indeed of Jewish heritage -- not that there's anything wrong with that."

Weird.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:11 (eighteen years ago)

two way late thoughts:

1) why couldn't "cracker" be as bad as the n-bomb? i mean, right, it's not referring to a history of rape, murder, subjugation--it's just referring to a history of raping, murdering, and subjugating. i mean "you're a subhuman" vs. "you're a cancer on the planet." how are these not reciprocal versions of the same fuck you? how does the latter not claim the indisputably higher "you're morally worthless" ground?

2) if only blacks get to use the n-word, perhaps only blacks should have the right to officially damn white users thereof?

― literalisp (literalisp), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:25 (eighteen years ago)

Weird.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:28 (eighteen years ago)

No wait it isn't weird. You are just an idiot.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:28 (eighteen years ago)

racist.

― literalisp (literalisp), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:29 (eighteen years ago)

Eggzactly!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:30 (eighteen years ago)

It's funny how one of the most contentious threads in recent ILx history has the phrase "Weird-o-Rama" in the title.

Not to be contentious, but something like the Kill Bill thread was way worse in the argument department. This thread was quiet meditation comparatively.

xpost Though I could be proven wrong yet.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:31 (eighteen years ago)

Idiot Like Me

― literalisp (literalisp), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:34 (eighteen years ago)

FIFTEEN POSTS TO GO

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:34 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, whozzhizname hasn't shown up yet to get the fun REALLY started

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:36 (eighteen years ago)

Eh. If Michael Richards was Japanese, he'd have been here a loooong time ago.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:40 (eighteen years ago)

FIFTEEN POSTS TO GO

in which case i'll reduce the count slightly further by saying that gypsy mothra and nabisco's posts (at least, the ones i've read; i might have missed a couple in the melee) have invariably been OT FUCKING M.

it doesn't matter whether the guy's intrinsically a black-hearted racist or he's just a stupid bastard who, even for a moment, thought such a vile response might in some way be valid. what he DID is what mattered; and yeh, as N and GM have said, for the sake of semantic shorthand if nothing else we might as well define him as "racist" because, well, it's shorter than "fucking arsehole". this was a gross and astonishing abuse of power and ... fuck's sake. i don't really have any more to say. i can't believe this argument is still raging.

in other words, I don't know there's any way to make "racism" a strongly negative value, as it should be, without making "racists" a category of (in essence) non-persons, the Evil Other, people outside the social contract who Aren't Like Us who it's OK to hate.

everyone is capable of racist action/"being [a] racist". that's the point - it's a cancer throughout society. we all need to look at ourselves, our tenets, our actions, ALL THE FUCKING TIME, not just point the finger at someone else every so often. what's the answer? stronger laws, maybe? i mean, come on, the guy should be fucking prosecuted for this. i can't see how that isn't happening. (is it happening? maybe so. i feel i have only the vaguest hold on this now.)

bet we've bust 1000 posts while i was typing :(

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:45 (eighteen years ago)

let's keep this going

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:46 (eighteen years ago)

i mean, come on, the guy should be fucking prosecuted for this.

No.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:46 (eighteen years ago)

whyever not?

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:47 (eighteen years ago)

Because he didn't do anything illegal.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:48 (eighteen years ago)

wait, are you fucking kidding about the prosecuting thing?

― gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:48 (eighteen years ago)

can we lock this at 1000?

i think that'd be nice.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:49 (eighteen years ago)

i'm off for a cursory read of this to see what the situation would be if he'd done this in the UK. obviously, what with it being wikipedia, i'll probably end up basing my response on someone else's fundamental misunderstanding, but hey.

xposts: no. sorry, i'm a hardliner. i'd criminalise stupidity if it was up to me :)

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:49 (eighteen years ago)

i think many people are assuming the term "racist" means someone whose entire philosophy revolves are the notion that other races are inferior, worthy of contempt, perhaps even expendable. the argument seems to be that richards doesn't necessarily think these things philosophically, and he just used these words as a way of tipping the scales without thinking of what he was even saying. i think this is weird because the dude seemed pretty contrite albeit completely confused, yet at the same time what the fuck kind of dude says that sort of thing when he loses it except for an unrepentant racist? it's probably a combination of a racial superiority complex, your typical white male comedian's "pushing the envelope on race" meme, plus--possibly--something mentally off in the guy's head.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:51 (eighteen years ago)

xpost: wikipedia no use. anyone know enough UK law to give me an idea whether there'd be a case for inciting racial hatred/some other kind of "racially aggravated offence"?

doesn't really matter, of course; just vaguely interested now.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:53 (eighteen years ago)

it's really just a genuinely strange moment because it's not like some awkward rat pack humor, it's really egregious. i really do think something might be wrong with kramer beyond the obvious "asshole" bit.

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:54 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.blogpocket.com/posts1000peq.jpg

― dommy p is alright WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN I CAN SAY ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE (Dom, Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:56 (eighteen years ago)

i can't really believe there are people that think this should be illegal, no matter how offensive it is.

― gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:56 (eighteen years ago)

PLZ 2 LOCK THREAD

x-post

dammit we were at such a nice number.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:58 (eighteen years ago)

i like how ILE has once again taken a sad and repulsive incident about which we can do nothing and sucked out every ounce of comic potential

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:59 (eighteen years ago)

xpost to gear Oh, so do I. I keep rethinking it, and I've watched the video three or four times trying to parse what happened, and mayyyybe there's a way around the charge of racial hatred if all he'd done was call disruptive crowd members a racially charged name. It would be wildly inappropriate of him to say such things as a white man, but mayybe... maybe he's just a little nuts. But it's the lynching reference that gets me every time. That's just incredible, and it's where this rant apparently starts.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 00:59 (eighteen years ago)

and boy, i go traipsing around a cave for the weekend and this happens, what's next?

― a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:00 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

and sucked out every ounce of comic potential

That had been done for us, I think. There's nothing funny about it... that's kind of the problem.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:01 (eighteen years ago)

I am waiting for the macacalypse.

― Beth S. (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:01 (eighteen years ago)

i can't really believe there are people that think this should be illegal, no matter how offensive it is.

it's an extreme response, i admit. and i don't actually like myself for thinking it. but someone (lurker? jaymc? can't remember!) asked how to make racism TOTALLY societally unacceptable, and right now that's the only way i can think of.

i mean, the alternative - fight soi-disant "free speech" with more discussion and dialogue - is fine as long as EVERY FUCKER is condemning richards for what he said, and doing it LOUDLY AND PUBLICLY AND CONSTANTLY SO EVERYONE ELSE CAN HEAR.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:02 (eighteen years ago)

xpost hahahaha

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:02 (eighteen years ago)

asked how to make racism TOTALLY societally unacceptable, and right now that's the only way i can think of

I don't know, dude. Watching video like this might be a step in the right direction. Even if he's not prosecuted, he's already being run out of Hollywood on a rail. Which is a more fitting justice, really.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:06 (eighteen years ago)

Take it to I Love Utopian States dudes.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:08 (eighteen years ago)

Jailing people for expressing offensive thoughts is so extremely slippery a slope even penguins would fall off.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:09 (eighteen years ago)

Just as it is important to look behind the mask of a comedian like Red Skelton and to see the heart of a great man

I would expect to see a red skeleton.

― I.M. From Hollywood (i_m_from_hollywood), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:09 (eighteen years ago)

-- grimly fiendish (simonmai...), November 22nd, 2006 1:02 AM. (grimlord) (later)

that is fucking retarded. there's no such thing as free speech if everyone's saying the same thing.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:13 (eighteen years ago)

THAT'S UNCALLED FOR!

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:14 (eighteen years ago)

stfu, dickcheese.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:15 (eighteen years ago)

But it's the lynching reference that gets me every time. That's just incredible, and it's where this rant apparently starts.

Notably, though, this is only the nail in the coffin in retrospect. The audience clearly laughs at the "fork in the ass" comment. It's not until he pulls out the n-word, and DRIVES IT INTO THE GROUND, the the audience as a whole turns on him. Hmmm.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:16 (eighteen years ago)

But still, nabisco obviously OTM. He was angry, he looked at his assailants, decided to improvise, and seeing as how they were black immediately came up with something to the effect of, "I wish I could lynch you." Holy fucking shit.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:28 (eighteen years ago)

i still like the "that's what happens" line ... 'cause apparently what "happens" is the interrupted white man will commit career suicide.

― literalisp (literalisp), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:33 (eighteen years ago)

i assume he hasn't yet explained exactly what it was they said that riled him so much?

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:38 (eighteen years ago)

"what it was they said" is this thread's "who is Wayne, really?"

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:46 (eighteen years ago)

zinedine zidane to thread.

― literalisp (literalisp), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:48 (eighteen years ago)

so, you know, just say the word, and i'll kill this thread in five minutes flat.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 01:58 (eighteen years ago)

i am for this.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:00 (eighteen years ago)

that's all i need to hear.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:01 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.teammahaska.org/images/mcard/New%20Sharon/Harden%20Funeral%20Home.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:02 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.bratcherfuneralhome.info/images/index_04.gif

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:03 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.wjjonesandson.com/images/jones-funeral-home.gif

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:03 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.mobhitz.org/mediac/400_0/media/Funeral~home.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:04 (eighteen years ago)

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/8c3/532/8c3532d9-e284-4ea9-b66c-1cefa9663157

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:04 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.beeville.net/TrevinoFuneralHome/Mr.%20Genaro%20R.%20Trevino%20-%20Founder%20of%20Trevino%20Funeral%20Home%20-%201930%20img058.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:05 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hinfo/images/newlawsls84/Business-Funeral%20Home%20Operator.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:06 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.forever-care.com/gallery/albums/A-Historic-Tradition-Lives-On:-R-R-Bringhurst-Funeral-Home/DSC_0354_Bringhurst_ext.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:06 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.md-funeralhome.ca/images/Buildingfrt.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:07 (eighteen years ago)

http://members.cox.net/malfunction/tasmhouse.jpg

― literalisp (literalisp), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:07 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.philipjjeffriesfuneralhome.com/Funeral%20Home%20File.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:08 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.shop-alberta.com/camrose/pics/burgar-funeral-home-main-11-05.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:09 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.shopsaskatchewan.com/Warman/Pics/Martens_Warman_Funeral_Home.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:10 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.gatensfuneralhome.com/images/funeral%20home%20114a.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:10 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.russellfuneralhome.com/DVC00197b.JPG

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:11 (eighteen years ago)

i am so glad that maria taught you pictures, scott.

also: i've got a guy telling me that this whole thing was premeditated, Kaufmanesque shenanigans. Right down to the weird, awkward apology.

― gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:11 (eighteen years ago)

I think making something totally socially unacceptable is a pretty good way to try to reduce it towards zero but it also makes it a bigger lure for the antisocial in inclination. Which I think might have played a role here.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:11 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.clarkecountyfair.com/images/05photos/images/Kale-Funeral-Home.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:11 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.parrottfuneralhome.com/art/PARROTT-FUNERAL-HOME-008.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:12 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.oologah.org/images/members/oologah_funeral_home.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:14 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.trinity.edu/mkearl/death02/deathpros/FuneralDirectors/car.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:16 (eighteen years ago)

http://docsouth.unc.edu/church/haley/encyc208.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:17 (eighteen years ago)

http://fic-online.com/glenda.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:18 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.fivespotfilms.com/images/CASKETLADY.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:22 (eighteen years ago)

http://texascaskets.com/images/02%20convention.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:23 (eighteen years ago)

i've got a guy telling me that this whole thing was premeditated, Kaufmanesque shenanigans. Right down to the weird, awkward apology.

Crossed my mind for about 2 seconds. Not again.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:24 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.lentilfest.com/Content/GalleryImages/Pancake%20Breakfast.JPG

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:27 (eighteen years ago)

"Do you come with the coffin?"

― kingfish prætor (kingfish 2.0), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:28 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.hiddenportyachtclub.com/images/Jpeg%20Files/L.F.%2006%20Food%20Pancake%20Breakfast.JPG

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:28 (eighteen years ago)

there's no such thing as free speech if everyone's saying the same thing.

WAHT

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:28 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.clubrunner.ca/Data/5370/485/Story/20574/pancakes%20on%20grill.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:29 (eighteen years ago)

http://i1.treklens.com/photos/720/breakfast_special_1.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:29 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.gilford-rotary.org/pix/PancakeBrkfast02/images/AUT_0029.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:30 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.pademolay.org/news/0622/0005.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:31 (eighteen years ago)

gbx OTM.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:31 (eighteen years ago)

http://parkmeadows.lethsd.ab.ca/Pancake%20Breakfast/pancake05_006.JPG

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:32 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.silverandstone.com/sitebuilder/images/Kid_Stuff_gift_basket-510x386.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:33 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.celestialscentsations.com/images/cart/sweetheart_basket.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:34 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.ripegifts.co.uk/acatalog/succot-shavuot-gift-basket.gif

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:35 (eighteen years ago)

http://ameliagiftbaskets.com/products/gourmet_delights_gift_basket.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:36 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.irmasgiftbox.com/images/nemo2.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:37 (eighteen years ago)

Oh fuck, I was thinking about skipping dinner, now I want pancakes.

― Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:37 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.giftbaskethugs.com/baskets/images/birthdaydeluxe.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:38 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.giftbaskethugs.com/baskets/images/shopbookbouquet_1869_1218684.gif

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:38 (eighteen years ago)

Scott, I love you so.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:39 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.petcomfort.com/deluxegiftbasket2.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:39 (eighteen years ago)

there's no such thing as free speech if everyone's saying the same thing.
WAHT

-- The Android Cat (djperr...) (webmail), November 21st, 2006 1:28 PM. (Dan Perry) (later) (link)

I'm guessing he means "If everyone has been blindly convinced to say the same thing."

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:40 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.dreamakergifts.com/baskets/image2/101208lg.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:40 (eighteen years ago)

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:41 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.dotgiftbaskets.com/images/Grand_Gourmet_Sausage_and_Cheese_Gift_Set_Lg.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:42 (eighteen years ago)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/primrosehill/images.jpg

― wordy rappinghood (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:42 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.basketsaway.com/images/sausagecheese.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:42 (eighteen years ago)

http://shop.sdbaskets.com/images/24ozbeef.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:43 (eighteen years ago)

Pardon me for interrupting your imageflooding Scott, but I think this thread still lacks true in-depth analysis of the Richards meltdown.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:43 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.boodlesofbaskets.com/junk-food-junkielg2004.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:44 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.candyofthemonthclub.com/ProductImages/PRO%20Smiles.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:45 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.belengiftandbasket.ca/Mothers-Day/images/cheers3.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:45 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, but if you'd only stop that for a moment, I think we were really on the verge of parsing Richards' psyche and untangling our true feelings about racial relations.

― A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:46 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.candyofthemonthclub.com/ProductImages/PRO%20Crayons.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:46 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.purdue.edu/physicalfacilitieshr/photos/custodian.gif

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:48 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.k12.de.us/lfcentral/am%20custodian.JPG

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:48 (eighteen years ago)

http://pauldingcountylibrary.org/images/Historical%20Photo

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:49 (eighteen years ago)

Didn't Jon used to get banned for doing this?

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:49 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.centerville.k12.in.us/programs/images/photos_lg/custodian.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:50 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.kayenta.k12.az.us/mvhs/Staff/staff%20images/2005-2006/Custodian.JPG

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:50 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.aacps.org/aacps/westanes/custodian.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:51 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.factoryschool.org/factoryfarm/images/Custodian.JPG

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:51 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.stmarksbloomington.org/dennis.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:52 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.stjohnelca.com/images/Merlin%20Jones%20Custodian.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:52 (eighteen years ago)

http://itasca.com/SCHOOL/charger/2003/November/custodian-BIG.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:53 (eighteen years ago)

http://depts.washington.edu/uweek/archives/1998.04.APR_09/Vacuum4.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:54 (eighteen years ago)

http://comsewogue.k12.ny.us/~ssilverman/kinder/13.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:54 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.macomb.k12.mi.us/Utica/BeaconTree/images/staff_images/custodian.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:55 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.allencc.edu/mugs/54284.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:55 (eighteen years ago)

http://emerson.dadeschools.net/images/img/100_0994.JPG

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:56 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.gadgetsarcade.com/images/I-Love-You.jpg

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 02:57 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not terribly adamant about this thread living its life out to its fullest, but Mr. Seward is starting to piss me off.

― Noilly Prat (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 03:02 (eighteen years ago)

but he loves you!

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 03:09 (eighteen years ago)

ok before this thread gets locked I'll share a very loose transcript of the thoughts of the staff and clientele of my barbershop today re: Kramer's beliefs. In some ways like a recapitulation of a middling internet thread on the subject except starring black people ;)

Kramer newstory teaser comes on TV
30ish dude: man he must have been waiting to say that for years
me: yeah dude snapped but there's a lot behind that
barberlady2: "If he had done that to me I would have given it right back, cracker this and cracker that, it's on". I would have started laughing cause it's funny.
30ish dude: "cracker" is weak though anyway, they don't care about that shit. cracker comes from the crack of the whip from the overseer. that's like glorifying them.
barberlady1: yeah, ok that's cracker but what about "honkie"? where does that come from?
30ish dude: from the Jeffersons (laughs)
old dude, science dropper: no it's from when white guys came into black neighborhoods honking at black women thinking they were prostitutes.
everybody: oh shit i didn't know that!
old dude, science dropper: yeah i started looking up this stuff in wikipedia when i think of it.

later, actual news story comes on, including quick flash of the black heckler saying he was offended or something generic like that

someone, forgot who: oh that dude could have broke Kramer in half
barberlady2: see I wish they would just come out with it like that instead of lying and being all sorry
30ish guy: they talk about us in the south but at least you know damn well who the racists are, and you know not to deal with that person. It's different out here(California)

news story touches on the inopportune timing with the Seinfeld dvd release, white lady interviewed on the street says she's not buying it:
Several: Aw you know she lying, she's on her way to get one
old dude, science dropper: they just gained sales in the south
someone: Seinfeld sticking up for him, let the dude speak for himself
30ish guy: I can't stand that show anyway
barberlady1: you didn't like it? It was funny, he was the funniest one too.
30ish guy: I bet you be watching Friends too
barberlady1: naw I don't fuck with Friends
me: (nods in agreement)
30ish guy: How you gonna have a show set in NY with no black people? Or latinos or nothing?(not sure if he was referring to Friends or Seinfeld. uh)
someone: all them shows are like that(names a few, gets to I Love Lucy)
barberlady2: Oh you know you weren't going to see none back then. They did all they could bringing Ricky on there.
barberdude: I saw this thing last week where Lucy was dogging him though, said he wasn't a real man and all this.
someone: yeah I saw that, Barbara Walters or something
barberlady2: naw but she was mad at him womanizing, she still loved her some Ricky, she loved her some Ricky
old dude, science dropper: She was vain, only liked to be photographed from one side
barberdude: probably had to, her cigarette smoking ass
30ish dude: Just cut my hair so I can get out of here. You coloreds sure do take a long time doing stuff.
everyone: (laughs)

I didn't say much more than that, trying to hear the story over the black people talking is hard enough. badump bump. I'd much rather hear what white people have to say anyway.(only half joking; some whites are more privy to the pathology of white supremacy on an up close and personal tip than the average black person, especially the type of white person that like to intone earnestly: "y'know everyone is racist anyway". More of that plz.)

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 03:11 (eighteen years ago)

thats some excellent image bombing skot

― songs and ballads of the bituminous miners (sanskrit), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 03:13 (eighteen years ago)

and yet they keep adding their boring opinions

― songs and ballads of the bituminous miners (sanskrit), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 03:14 (eighteen years ago)

that's a good story tremendoid.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 03:18 (eighteen years ago)

tremendoid were you taking notes or something? that's some serious short-term memory there.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 03:22 (eighteen years ago)

I'm missing a bunch of stuff! My head has been in this thread for awhile so when the conversation began it was like bizarro deja vu or something. I wish I could remember 30-ish dude's riff on trying to pass as Puerto Rican from now on but i was roffling too hard I guess.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 03:30 (eighteen years ago)

I'm guessing he means "If everyone has been blindly convinced to say the same thing."

There are certain things (like, for example, "racism is bad") that I think everyone SHOULD be blindly convinced to believe.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 03:49 (eighteen years ago)

Sure but as a general statement, there is no point to the need for free speech if everyone in the world has the exact same beliefs and opinions.

It is a tricky one though, granted. The US pride in "we are free to express whatever we believe" smacks up hard against the KKK and other such evil gits saying they truly believe blacks/jews/women/etc are rubbish and should all die.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 03:59 (eighteen years ago)

And it is soooo not a semantic argument I want to get into before anyone asks.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 04:00 (eighteen years ago)

dude is like 57, right? he grew up when kids could say shit like that in most parts of the country and not have anyone blink. i think the taunting flipped some relatively (perhaps) dormant racist switch, maybe reminded him of schoolyard taunts, and he let fly with the shit. doesn't matter, he's a jerk and he'll never live it down, but i think the heckling turned him back into the nasty little kid he once was.

― timmy tannin (pompous), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 04:15 (eighteen years ago)

A few years ago, the KKK requested a permit to speak on the capitol steps. The authorities held their noses and granted them the permit. 20,000 of us showed up an shouted them down. I was in the front row and I couldn't hear them, even with their P.A. system.

I like that better than outlawing racist speech.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 04:20 (eighteen years ago)

me too

― gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 04:25 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.furryforest.com/general/bear_railo_cuddle_belic.gif

― gbx (skowly), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 04:25 (eighteen years ago)

barberlady1: naw I don't fuck with Friends

rofl

― am0n (am0n), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 04:47 (eighteen years ago)

old dude, science dropper: yeah i started looking up this stuff in wikipedia when i think of it.

i love this

― the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 04:55 (eighteen years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honky

― the car, the hole, and the peekskill meteorite (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 04:56 (eighteen years ago)

haha I thought to check that, but that definition is too perfect.

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 05:02 (eighteen years ago)

lol at wiki - "See Also ....... The Jeffersons"

― timmy tannin (pompous), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 05:09 (eighteen years ago)

This term, first used in 1990's rural America by dancing hamsters, is often met with great jubilation and the tuting of horns.

The hell?

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 05:29 (eighteen years ago)

Aw thats gone now!

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 05:29 (eighteen years ago)

btw, the randomawkward katrina reference was to this

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 05:40 (eighteen years ago)

I think everyone SHOULD be blindly convinced to believe

Blindly!?

― wordy rappinghood (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 05:52 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, like with patriotism. and a president in wartime. and jesus. and ...

― literalisp (literalisp), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 05:55 (eighteen years ago)

dude is like 57, right? he grew up when kids could say shit like that in most parts of the country and not have anyone blink.

I'm 49 and I've never lived in a place where this would pass without comment (extreme comment in most cases). I've never lived in the south, but as an Air Force brat I did live in a lot of places.

And I remember a Barney Miller episode where Dietrich (the kind of intellectual white guy) said "honky" was derived from the nasal speaking tone of Caucasians. The Wiki thing sounds more believeable.

― nickn (nickn), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 09:28 (eighteen years ago)

Sure but as a general statement, there is no point to the need for free speech if everyone in the world has the exact same beliefs and opinions.

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't moving towards some kind of common set of beliefs and opinions a good thing? not that it'll ever happen, of course, but this does seem to be reductio ad absurdum in excelsis, so to speak.

dan OTM.

I like that better than outlawing racist speech.

yes, me too. and superb: you took a stand, you shouted them down, you won the battle. problem is (and remember: i'm a brit so i'm not hearing much chat about this story; it's more "WTF, crazy forgotten seinfeld racism dude" than big analysis time) are people making their voices heard about richards? are pundits/presenters/columnists/"opinion-formers" (euch) denouncing what he did, or are they all looking for ways ("regrettable outburst, remorse etc") to get him off the hook?

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 09:49 (eighteen years ago)

Okay image flooding's a pain in the arse but it was worth it for this

http://www.mobhitz.org/mediac/400_0/media/Funeral~home.jpg

― ONIMO feels teh NOIZE (GerryNemo), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:14 (eighteen years ago)

Didn't Jon used to get banned for doing this?

-- Trayce (spamspanke...), November 22nd, 2006 2:49 AM. (trayce) (later)

jon was never this good.

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't moving towards some kind of common set of beliefs and opinions a good thing?

that, my friends, is fascism personified.

stfu, dickcheese.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:20 (eighteen years ago)

that, my friends, is wankerdom personified.

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:23 (eighteen years ago)

hahaha that 'my friends' is so choice.

"but isn't moving towards some kind of common set of beliefs and opinions a good thing?"

don't think anything's been personified here.

― benrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:25 (eighteen years ago)

So can I watch my just purchased series 7 dvd on not?

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:26 (eighteen years ago)

i mean, it's very simple. if your ideal world is one where lots of people are fanatically angry about lots of different things and have the freedom to rant about them, why are you getting upset about this richards thing? surely he's behaving in the perfect way in this perfect world.

if, however, you think that humans should concentrate more on what binds them together than separates them ... well, by your logic you're obviously a fascist. and i'll give you the benefit of the doubt - your astonishing rhetorical skills notwithstanding - and say yes, i appreciate where you're coming from: imposition of belief systems is never desirable.

however, as dan rightly says, in some cases: why is there any argument?

you "dickcheese" :)

― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:27 (eighteen years ago)

grimly fiendish, you are one fagtron of the highest order. and i don't mean you actually fuck men. you don't fuck anyone except yourself.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:29 (eighteen years ago)

lol doesn't "facism" even come from the italian "to bind"?

crosspost

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:29 (eighteen years ago)

no, it doesn't

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:29 (eighteen years ago)

rjg, it's fascism, you scot kkk founder.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:30 (eighteen years ago)

I KNOW

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:30 (eighteen years ago)

yeah yeah yeah everyone otm - but can i watch it or not?

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:31 (eighteen years ago)

jon was never this good.

i dunno, 1 image per post is a pretty rubbish way of trying to stop other people posting. i have images turned off so it's not gonna annoy me unless it's css or huge reams of text pasted over and over.

thread should probably be locked anyway.

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:31 (eighteen years ago)

roffle why am i even deigning to argue with someone whose end address is "btinternet?"

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:32 (eighteen years ago)

css is for fagtrons.

just like aol.

or btinternets.

― hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 10:32 (eighteen years ago)

whats wrong with btinternet?

― -- (688), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 11:25 (eighteen years ago)

or css or aol?!

― -- (688), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 11:26 (eighteen years ago)

gettin back to the real issues at last

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 11:27 (eighteen years ago)

heheheh, i expected to come back to this thread and find CORUSCATING DEMOLISHING ARGUMENTS reducing me to a BLUBBERING WRECK. instead i learn a fun new word and remember that i really do need to change my fucking ISP, yo. thanks, hstencil.

ever feel we've reached the end of the line? ah, good. still, it's made a pleasant change from arguing about "thing" versus "think".

does anyone want to hear about my friend's teenage daughter, her worrying outbursts of racism (including - and this is in a fucking leafy suburb of glasgow - use of the n-word) and my friend's theories about multicultural schooling and the gangs therein?

no, thought not.

― grimly fagtron (grimlord), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 15:15 (eighteen years ago)

Oh yeah, the KKK got a permit for a rally in my colllege town, to be held on the steps of some building. The school sent a group of people who arrived just as the permitted time ran out and got on hands & knees to scrub the steps with soap & water. I can't decide whether that's awesome or horrible in terms of a public gesture, but it's something!

― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

awesome

― wordy rappinghood (roxymuzak), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:09 (eighteen years ago)

It is a bit "LOOK AT US SHAME YOU WITH OUR PEACEFUL PASSIVE RESISTANCE", tho. On par with people who're always pointing out that they spend their spare time reading stories to homeless children.

― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

It is a bit "LOOK AT US SHAME YOU WITH OUR PEACEFUL PASSIVE RESISTANCE", tho.

What, exactly, is wrong with that?

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:27 (eighteen years ago)

Usually when the klan comes to rally yr supposed to avoid making a scene so they don't get the media coverage.

― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

I dont know what I think of this approach, one of my friends didn't like it much and was actually arrested for shoving a cop at a counterprotest to a klan rally. Everyone in h.s. called him 'cop killer'

― deej.. (deej..), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, maybe I'm just sensitive about my college education coming with a heaping side of self-righteousness.

― Laurel (Laurel), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

old dude, science dropper: yeah i started looking up this stuff in wikipedia when i think of it.

Where's the money that was just here? I saw the money just a second ago and now it's gone, where did it go? Oh, there it is! It's underneath Old Dude Science Dropper because he is ON THE MOTHERFUCKING MONEY.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 18:41 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, maybe I'm just sensitive about my college education coming with a heaping side of self-righteousness.

I hear you.

― M. White (Miguelito), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

Holy shit

― nate p. (natepatrin), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

I wonder if this episode will have any lasting repercussions in terms of how comedians, esp. white comedians, handle race. Larry David's exchanges with Wanda Sykes on Curb Your Enthusiasm, for example, will seem to have that much more baggage (and close to home) from now on.

― Collardio Gelatinous (collardio), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

Holy shit

Seconded.

Larry David's exchanges with Wanda Sykes on Curb Your Enthusiasm, for example, will seem to have that much more baggage

I don't think so, not at all.

― sinshine (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, i've been waiting to see if any priors start popping up. not the best evidence, but that hardly helps.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:40 (eighteen years ago)

priors or Pryors?

― nickn (nickn), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:45 (eighteen years ago)

not the best evidence, but that hardly helps.

The evidence is all in already. But that clip is awfully unfunny and in brutally bad taste.

― sinshine (kenan), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

i've been trying to post some of the gems from this thread on that youtube clip but i can't seem to get the comments workin

― Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 22:00 (eighteen years ago)

just invite them all over here instead t!

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 23:16 (eighteen years ago)

This CNN clip --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-6cLovllX4

-- makes me laugh. "Allegedly spewed the N-word" -- "allegedly"! -- it's like, dude, I understand that the legal team makes you say that, but c'mon! "The Challenger allegedly blew up today..."

― lurker #2421, inc. (lurker-2421), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 23:16 (eighteen years ago)

What in the fuck.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 23:21 (eighteen years ago)

oh YouTubeCommentspaws.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Wednesday, 22 November 2006 23:26 (eighteen years ago)

the inevitable ytmnd

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 November 2006 01:55 (eighteen years ago)

aaaaand the gifs have started too:

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o111/fetusxpuncher/1164140962944.gif

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 November 2006 02:09 (eighteen years ago)

Actually I thought the word "allegedly" didn't even get you out of libel. IIRC the AP styleguide sez so?

― Abbott (Abbott), Thursday, 23 November 2006 02:21 (eighteen years ago)

Dude not even a CANDLE to the weakest Zidane gif.

― Abbott (Abbott), Thursday, 23 November 2006 02:22 (eighteen years ago)

don't shoot the messenger, how do i shot web?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 November 2006 02:24 (eighteen years ago)

http://jitcrunch.cafepress.com/jitcrunch.aspx?bG9hZD1ibGFuayxibGFuazoxMDdfQi5qcGd8bG9hZD1MMCxodHRwOi8vaW1hZ2VzLmNhZmVwcmVzcy5jb20vaW1hZ2UvMTU4Njg3NjlfNDAweDQwMC5qcGd8fHNjYWxlPUwwLDE3MCwxNzAsV2hpdGV8Y29tcG9zZT1ibGFuayxMMCxBZGQsMTU1LDEwMHxjcD1yZXN1bHQsYmxhbmt8c2NhbGU9cmVzdWx0LDAsNDgwLFdoaXRlfGNvbXByZXNzaW9uPTk1fA==

― gbx (skowly), Thursday, 23 November 2006 02:26 (eighteen years ago)

http://perezhilton.com/topics/michael_richards/things_go_from_bad_to_worse_for_kkkramer_20061122.php
http://perezhilton.com/topics/michael_richards/kramers_history_of_hatred_20061121.php

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 23 November 2006 06:43 (eighteen years ago)

Gold in the YouTube comments:

50 years ago, Kramer would be hanging upside down with a fork in his ass for this.

― Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Thursday, 23 November 2006 07:59 (eighteen years ago)

As I posted on nu-ILX the guys he ranted at have got a publicist and are talking about compensation decided by a retired (?) judge. Has this happened before?

Anyone watched Seinfeld since this happened?

― Ned T.Rifle (nedtrifle), Thursday, 23 November 2006 10:01 (eighteen years ago)

yes, briefly

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 23 November 2006 10:51 (eighteen years ago)

I'm too exhausted to scroll back up through the picstorm, but did nobody else read the link hstencil posted to the story about the Baltimore frat that had the "ghetto"-themed Halloween party?

"They said a skeleton hanging from a noose was a reference to Pirates of the Carribean and not an allusion to lynching."

― Tiki Theater Xymposium (Bent Over at the Arclight), Thursday, 23 November 2006 16:16 (eighteen years ago)

not that I think this is most interesting because of Michael Richards (who gives a fuck about michael richards?) rather than potentially everyman, but apparently he called Jesse and Al but not the dudes at the club

having heard the thing again, now I wonder if either part of my first take wasn't exactly backwards, so I'm not sure I believe anything about my case anymore, even if some of the other evidence suggests the dude is all-around borderline

(btw, can anyone think of another well-known dude known for yelling "Shut up!" like a crazy person?)

this is interesting

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 23 November 2006 17:59 (eighteen years ago)

Does anyone ever admit to being a rascist?

Our very own far right BNP are very much in the 'We're not rascists but...' camp.

Are the Aryan Nation, KKK, radio talk show loons, etc, the same or are they happy to say 'Yep, we're rascist as hell!'

― Bidfurd (Bidfurd), Thursday, 23 November 2006 20:35 (eighteen years ago)

Patrice O'Neal was great on Hannity and Colmes about this. Someone post it.

― Period period period (Period period period), Thursday, 23 November 2006 21:06 (eighteen years ago)

i think it's usually couched as "if racism means being proud of the white race then go ahead and call me racist.." even by wingnuts now

― Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Thursday, 23 November 2006 22:25 (eighteen years ago)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=u7Bj4fywCBo

― sinshine (kenan), Thursday, 23 November 2006 22:37 (eighteen years ago)

LOL@ Brits not understanding the usa at all.

― roc u like a § (ex machina), Thursday, 23 November 2006 22:37 (eighteen years ago)

Are the Aryan Nation, KKK, radio talk show loons, etc, the same or are they happy to say 'Yep, we're rascist as hell!'

-- Bidfurd (Bidfurd8...), November 23rd, 2006 8:35 PM. (Bidfurd) (later)

uh, yes.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 November 2006 22:39 (eighteen years ago)

"LOL@ Brits not understanding the usa at all"

Which is why I asked.
And I just got two different opinions from 2 different americans.

― Bidfurd (Bidfurd), Thursday, 23 November 2006 22:46 (eighteen years ago)

i hear it's a two opinion system over there

― 2 american 4 u (blueski), Thursday, 23 November 2006 22:48 (eighteen years ago)

we're a diverse country.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 November 2006 23:06 (eighteen years ago)

one month passes...

bumped for post-sandbox wrap-up.

― mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Thursday, 4 January 2007 00:43 (eighteen years ago)

I quite like the Dave Matthews Band.

― Abbott (Abbott), Thursday, 4 January 2007 01:33 (eighteen years ago)

Can we embed 'sliding-in-and-out-of-Jerry's-door-with-KKK-hood'.gif?

― S- (sgh), Thursday, 4 January 2007 01:44 (eighteen years ago)

Bobby Ganush=Nude Spock=Butt Dickwhatvs=Uri Frendimein=Eyeball Kicks=Scaredy Cat ... what have I missed?

That's not true!

not eyeball kicks -- he lives in islington!

That's not true either!

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:36 (eighteen years ago)

My attempt at playing Jaymc: you're Australian, right? (Or NZ?)

― nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:49 (eighteen years ago)

that's not true

― RJG (RJG), Thursday, 11 January 2007 17:54 (eighteen years ago)

Get your hand off the pancake you wench!

― Latham Green (mike), Thursday, 11 January 2007 18:45 (eighteen years ago)

http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1169577285509.gif

― UART variations (ex machina), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 20:29 (eighteen years ago)

btard

― friday on the porch (lfam), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 20:37 (eighteen years ago)

imageshack.us

― trans pacific donkey cell phone (sleep), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 20:44 (eighteen years ago)

damn

― UART variations (ex machina), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 21:05 (eighteen years ago)

tripod.angelfire.pwn3d.n00b.org

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 23 January 2007 21:53 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/01/25/tv.greys.anatomyfeud.ap/index.html

― UART variations (ex machina), Thursday, 25 January 2007 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

Whether Washington was receiving outpatient counseling or had entered a facility was not specified, and the statement did not indicate whether he would miss work on the show.

they have facilities for this sort of thing?

― roger goodell (gear), Thursday, 25 January 2007 19:30 (eighteen years ago)

two months pass...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/business/media/10imus.html

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 02:37 (eighteen years ago)

Good thread-collapsing idea.

Also OMG hahaha --

I think what makes a difference, a crucial difference is: What was my intent?”

Umm ...

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 04:38 (eighteen years ago)

"what i'd really like to talk about is how this affects ME"

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 09:31 (eighteen years ago)

Sharpton always brings the roflz

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 15:51 (eighteen years ago)

Two weeks?

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:36 (eighteen years ago)

sharpton was pretty sharp there i thought.

― s1ocki, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

Unless his intent was to offend black people, women, women's sports, and rutger's university all in a few economical syllables, his intentions failed.

― kenan, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:39 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah two weeks. Shows you where the real clout is. Why kill the golden goose? It's just shameless. What does he have to do? Actually physically hurt one of those girls?

Sharpton's always the sharp, the guy is a true leader these days.

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:41 (eighteen years ago)

i don't have too much of an opinion on this in particular but i'm glad he's finally getting called out for being an asshole and what took so long and why have so many pols cowered to the dude?

the guy is a true leader these days

of whom/what?

― gabbneb, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:41 (eighteen years ago)

Imus has always been an asshole. Career-destruction couldn't happen to a more deserving guy.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:43 (eighteen years ago)

Sharpton's "so you repent once every 10 years?" = OH SNAPS

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:43 (eighteen years ago)

hahaha Tracer this is an xpost!

Seriously, what would Imus have to add to his long history of denigrating black women to actually encounter any consequences? It's like he'd actually have to shoot Gwen Ifill before anyone did more than express disappointment.

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:43 (eighteen years ago)

cynical interpretation: sharpton's ensuring hillary doesn't have to go on the show

― gabbneb, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:44 (eighteen years ago)

[em]of whom/what?[/em]

his constituents?

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:46 (eighteen years ago)

bah

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:46 (eighteen years ago)

NBC will have to get that mouthbreather Chris Matthews on some other morning cavefest now.

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

gabbneb why are you playing dumb about the fact that al sharpton has constituents and is a broker for them? and when i said "true leader" i mean that the actions he urges people to take seem usually grounded in a morality that i identify with, and i think he expresses his vision convincingly

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

i'm not playing dumb, i'm being a pedant. a constituent is someone who elects/appoints someone as their agent/representative. even if you deem a non-officeholder to have constituents, i don't think there are too many people when talking about the country at large for whom al sharpton is their moral agent/representative, and for those for whom he is, it may in many cases be for only a limited rather than a general purpose, perhaps even specific to a single dispute. does he really stand out for you in the category of persons who urge others to take action from a moral base that you identify with?

― gabbneb, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:58 (eighteen years ago)

I really want to see the New York Times forbid Frank Rich and Maureen Dowd from going on Imus anymore, also would enjoy reading either columnist try to ~~weasal their way out of this mess~~ justify the I-man's pathetic shtick. longtime New Yorkers will remember Bob Grant and his comments about David Dinkins as washroom attendent.

on tv this am James Carville was honest enough to say that while he condemned Imus' remarks he thought Imus shouldn't be fired because his show "sells lots of books for his guests." 1 big media cluster fuck

― m coleman, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 16:59 (eighteen years ago)

first Sharpton, now Carville. what third would indicate a trend?

― gabbneb, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:00 (eighteen years ago)

oh, he wasn't really taking him down was he?

― gabbneb, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:01 (eighteen years ago)

xpost yes! i agree with sharpton more than i agree with anybody else who has ever run for president in my lifetime, for instance.

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:02 (eighteen years ago)

ok, my proposition is that you belong to a very small minority there

― gabbneb, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:03 (eighteen years ago)

al sharpton is an amoral opportunist and as long as he's considered a legit representative of african-americans their second-class political status in this race-challenged country won't change.

― m coleman, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:03 (eighteen years ago)

i agree in advance about his funny hair though. maybe it's hard to see past that.

btw you weren't being a pedant, because i hadn't even used the word "constituents" yet at that point. so um.

amoral, wow

opportunist i can see but that applies to just about every politician ever

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

its funny (okay not really) how white dudes making glaringly racist comments is just something that routinely happens in broadcasting. its like clockwork. Remember Jimmy the Greek? ("look at that monkey run!")

btw blaming Sharpton for the social position of black people seems ass-backwards to me.

x-post

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:05 (eighteen years ago)

al sharpton is an amoral opportunist and as long as he's considered a legit representative of african-americans their second-class political status in this race-challenged country won't change.

aren't you quoting someone here? I swear i've read this before. many times.

― deej, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:06 (eighteen years ago)

gabbneb wants very small minorities to shut up and vanish. Be a joiner!

Maybe less amoral folks should step forward on corrupt media circlejerks like the Imus Industry, then, and the Rev Al wouldn't hafta fill the vacuum.

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

btw you weren't being a pedant, because i hadn't even used the word "constituents" yet at that point. so um.

I was being a pedant about what a leader is with constituency used to illustrate in the same fashion you did.

― gabbneb, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

I don't blame Sharpton for that, but his being embraced by the mass media is a symptom of liberal condescension. this isn't worth discussing with me, he makes me insane, I'll never forgive him the for Tawana Brawley hoax -- set back race relations in NYC for years.

― m coleman, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

gabbneb wants very small minorities to shut up and vanish

pls

― gabbneb, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:10 (eighteen years ago)

anyway Imus' voice is so craggy and weird I'm surprised anyone can understand what the fuck he's saying

― m coleman, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:12 (eighteen years ago)

gabbneb surely you must acknowledge that there are leaders who are not elected (or appointed) officials

the Brawley thing is pretty inexcusable its true. that's my earliest memory of Sharpton - isn't that pretty much what got him on the national stage? I wonder what he has to say about that nowadays.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:13 (eighteen years ago)

Rosie O'Donnell on The View this morning = "Well this guy's on the air XX hours a week for XX years, and so he said just one thing..."

Joy Behar = "~~ching chong, Rosie, ching chong~~ umm here's a LIST"

Barbara Walters = "ooo but he's so respected ooo y'all aren't serious political journalists like me, you don't understand Imus is grown up and stuff"

That younger woman whose head looks like a balloon = "he needs a time out! he should be suspended until next Black History Month!"

Me = "OMG why am I watching the beginning of The View? just finish getting dressed and go to work!"

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:15 (eighteen years ago)

gabbneb surely you must acknowledge that there are leaders who are not elected (or appointed) officials

of course, but they don't have constituents, strictly-speaking

― gabbneb, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

URGH I HATE ROSIE O'DONNEL SO MUCH

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:17 (eighteen years ago)

i mean, i think leadership sort of speaks for itself and can't really be called into question where it exists

― gabbneb, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:19 (eighteen years ago)

time wasted looking for screen cap of the Family Guy's View renedetion: 4 minutes.

― Ms Misery, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:20 (eighteen years ago)

I don't see how it's at all fucking possible to interpret "nappy-headed hos" as abominably racist and sexist; nor do I see how it could be construed as "humor" in any sense of the word that I understand.

― max, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:22 (eighteen years ago)

really

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:22 (eighteen years ago)

Gabbneb you can doubt Sharpton's leadership qualities on a national / political scale, but there is zero doubt that he does verifiable leadership and organizational work (e.g., mobilizing people after the Sean Bell shooting, etc.) -- it's correct but a little misleading to call this just "single-issue" stuff, because part of Sharpton's local agenda tends to be mobilizing/"leading" people to jump on specific single issues in the first place.

No seriously though, Rosie was amusingly transparent with all her "well sometimes people say stuff on live broadcasts that they don't mean! sometimes it's an accident! maybe it's being taken out of context! cause that happened to, umm, this friend of mine!"

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:24 (eighteen years ago)

Wait, the second part of Max's post makes me feel like he accidentally left out a "not" in the first part?

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:24 (eighteen years ago)

Er... yes.

― max, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:25 (eighteen years ago)

ha ha ha ha ha whoops im going to go back to bed now

― max, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:26 (eighteen years ago)

max, you truly don't understand how someone might interpret a white man referring to black women with a racially-deregatory ("nappy-headed") term
and with "ho" (which is short for WHORE) as being offensive? REALLY?

xpost
haha, okay, never mind.

― Ms Misery, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:26 (eighteen years ago)

guys im from new jersey!! never insult the scarlet knights in my presence!

― max, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:27 (eighteen years ago)

i missed an "anything but" before "abominably."

― max, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:28 (eighteen years ago)

omg maybe that's what happened to imus and he meant to say they're NOT "nappy-headed hos"!!

― s1ocki, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

Hahaha it's okay, Max, we're taking your "intent" into account.

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:30 (eighteen years ago)

http://wwwimage.cbs.com/specials/riding_the_bus_with_my_sister/images/spe_riding_the_bus_hp_photo.jpg

I'M A (stupid self-absorbed racist) PERSON!

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:31 (eighteen years ago)

wENNNNNNNNNNNNNbc

― deeznuts, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:31 (eighteen years ago)

Rosie to play The F*t Bro*d in film version of B.C.?

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:33 (eighteen years ago)

[url=[Removed Illegal Link] @ "tags: offensive"[.url]

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:35 (eighteen years ago)

motherfucker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erFaoqLwod0

lolz @ "tags: offensive"

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:36 (eighteen years ago)

For the record, it was Imus's producer who first introduced the word "hos" into the conversation:

IMUS: That's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos ...
McGUIRK: Some hardcore hos.
IMUS: That's some nappy-headed hos there, I'm going to tell you that.

Note the black-English verb conjugations he's employing in his effort to drop some vernacular -- haha his best defense might actually be to pretend he just kinda clueless about what these words actually signify.

P.S. for the inevitable person who comes along and doesn't see what's wrong with this, here's how the conversation might have gone in a better world:

IMUS: That's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos ...
McGUIRK: Some hardcore hos.
IMUS: OMG, McGuirk, don't call them PROSTITUTES, WTF is wrong with you?

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:38 (eighteen years ago)

A world where Imus isn't a racist is a better world, true, but a world where Imus isn't on the radio would be still better.

― J, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

I get the "nappy-headed" as standard racist rhetoric for "black" but is there a stereotype about black women all being "hos"? Or basketball players?

― max, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

It would be helpful if there was an encyclopedia of stereotype, I think.

― max, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:45 (eighteen years ago)

"helpful" in an odd sense.

― max, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:45 (eighteen years ago)

at the end of the day, we should all just be thankful that british people don't know who imus is.

― ghost rider, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:47 (eighteen years ago)

is there a stereotype about black women all being "hos"?

uh... there's is if you're an ass-headed racist.

― kenan, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:47 (eighteen years ago)

Alternate excuses:

1. Broke really expensive vase at friend's house, has been moonlighting as a Hot 97 DJ to pay him back, lack of sleep made him confused about which job he was working

2. Was running late for work and asked good friend Akon to cover for him

3. Was distracted by episode of Scooby Doo on monitor, actually said "Scrappy threatened ghost"

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:47 (eighteen years ago)

Was distracted by episode of Scooby Doo on monitor, actually said "Scrappy threatened ghost"

WIZARD

― J, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:48 (eighteen years ago)

According to Imus:
Bill Rhoden = "New York Times quota hire"
Gwen Ifill = "cleaning lady"
Arabs = "ragheads."
Contessa Brewer = "fat skank [that] has to spend three hours with makeup in the morning."

of course then there's Imus sports dude Sid Rosenberg who called Serena and Venus Williams animals better suited to pose for National Geographic than Playboy and that Palestinians mourning the death of Yasser Arafat were "stinking animals" upon whom the Israelis "ought to drop the bomb right there, kill 'em all right now..."

yep, just one "slip of the tongue" riiiiiight

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:48 (eighteen years ago)

and yet michael savage will still be on the air somewhere over the next two weeks

― rps, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:49 (eighteen years ago)

(thx wikipedia I couldn't remember all that on my own x-post)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:49 (eighteen years ago)

i don't um follow imus at all, but, that's just, wow.

if you want to fuck with gwen ifill you've got to go through me. just sayin'

― gff, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:50 (eighteen years ago)

"that" = shakey's list right there

― gff, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:51 (eighteen years ago)

i somehow missed what he actually said and have only heard the media fallout (watched in snippets late last night at the hospital) until reading this thread: jesus h.

i'm curious to see what the rxn is on campus here (in the greater west), assuming anyone knows or cares. my bet is i'll hear at least a few assholes pull out the "but THEY call their women hoes all the time!" and my second corollary bet is that i'll have to stop myself from strangling them.

lotta beartraps

― river wolf, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:51 (eighteen years ago)

and the worst thing is that Imus is such an intellectual who is to be taken seriously as a deep thinker

― kenan, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:51 (eighteen years ago)

I was just xposting about the Ifill one -- probably the worst and most blatant / vicious of the bunch, on top of which IT'S GWEN IFILL!

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:53 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/opinion/10ifill.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

― J, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:56 (eighteen years ago)

yeah she's awesome!

― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:56 (eighteen years ago)

Imus is a miserable fuck, wanabe cowboy with no idea on how to talk to or about people in the real actual living world.

― chaki, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 17:59 (eighteen years ago)

this album: c or d

http://www.bsnpubs.com/nyc/bang407.jpg

― chaki, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:00 (eighteen years ago)

gross

― rps, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:03 (eighteen years ago)

Also, he is not Howard Stern. While Bart Simpson is listening to Howard Stern, Lisa Simpson is listening to Imus. That's the difference.

...

― latebloomer, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

oh see i didn't realize that he self-applied the label "honky." That changes everything. He can racially insult other people all he wants, because hey, he paints himself with the same brush.

― kenan, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

he's ripping off richard pryor

― m coleman, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:06 (eighteen years ago)

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/19800.jpg

― m coleman, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:08 (eighteen years ago)

That's not funny, Kenan, I've seen firsthand the hurt and the feeling of dehumanization white people experience when they get called honkys. Joking about that trivializes a long painful history of awful sunburns and having to sit in the fronts of buses.

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:08 (eighteen years ago)

While Bart Simpson is listening to Howard Stern, Lisa Simpson is listening to Imus. That's the difference.

WHA?

― J, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:10 (eighteen years ago)

I guess ilx ate my previous post, but who listens to Imus? Retirees? I don't really know who his market is.

― Nicole, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:11 (eighteen years ago)

Does Imus really get "better guests" than Howard Stern or do lame politicos know that he'll happily sniff their butts?

― Catsupppppppppppppp dude ‫茄蕃‪, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:12 (eighteen years ago)

As much as Howard discusses/ jokes about race and white/ black relations he would NEVER bust out and call a team of young girls nappy headed hos. fo real.

― chaki, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:12 (eighteen years ago)

Howard gets good guests if you're into comedy and celebrity coke stories from the 70s.

― chaki, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

my dad used to listen to Imus before he got fed up with all the namecalling sorta bullshit. My dad had a strange predilection for talk radio in the late 70s-80s, although he seems to have given up on it altogether now.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:14 (eighteen years ago)

man what is with the avalanche of white supposedly-left wing celebrities standing up to defend this dude? disgusting

also, lol @ mccain's straight talk express

― deej, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

I guess ilx ate my previous post, but who listens to Imus? Retirees? I don't really know who his market is.

playas - 15%
ballas - 4%
roughnecks - 3%
chickenheads - 5%
hood rats - 8%
redbones - 3%
herbs - 62%

― nabisco, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:18 (eighteen years ago)

wait till the onion gets a hold of this

― Catsupppppppppppppp dude ‫茄蕃‪, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:18 (eighteen years ago)

man what is with the avalanche of white supposedly-left wing celebrities standing up to defend this dude? disgusting

money talks man. Book deals!

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:20 (eighteen years ago)

lolz @ nabisco demographics

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:20 (eighteen years ago)

They still do Nixon, Patton, and Perot imitations on there? That show is the epitome of old white men sitting around making tasteless observations while thinking that they're still somehow "with it". Anybody who excuses a rich white cowboy-hat-wearin' Connecticut native (sound familiar?) who complains about the shocks in his limousine for making racially insensitive comments about female college student-athletes is a complete and utter moron.

― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

Imus is from Riverside, CA.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:45 (eighteen years ago)

(and let me tell you how EXCITED I am to share a birthplace with such a loser)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

I have on occasion watched his show on MSNBC while readying myself for work. I always found him to be a pretty agreeable guy. I guess he's an ass. I hadn't heard enough of him to see this side of him.

Dude called Cheney a war criminal, which I thought was pretty cool.

useless post. sorry

― Benjamin H, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 19:02 (eighteen years ago)

Can I delete that previous post? Dumb

― Benjamin H, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

nope sorry it's on the internets forever and ever.

― kenan, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

Connecticut resident then...

x-post

― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 19:05 (eighteen years ago)

Stern did plenty of similar shit in the '80s (esp re faggots), but the cultural consciousness was a bit lower then and I'm sure you won't get tapes of it from HS.

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 10 April 2007 19:13 (eighteen years ago)

doug ireland's classic takedown of sharpton (just shows that anybody can achieve respect in politics if they stick around long enough)
http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/a-prayer-for-rev-al/1974/

― gershy, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 02:51 (eighteen years ago)

i don't dispute, nabisco, that sharpton's a good small-time organizer and big-time loudspeaker but he's well-assisted in the latter dept (and by extension in the former) by two new york tabloid newspapers that, you recall, are GOP and at least centrist/moderately neo-con in orientation. also, am i the only person who knows right-leaning white people of, say, mort zuckerman's age who totally disagree with sharpton but experience a little thrill from his speech/appearance/manner?

i also wonder why we didn't question the image-making utility (for either blacks or the Dems) of his calling blacks old donkey-riders at DNC '04. and if he's such a leader, why in that regard did the repblican share of the black vote increase?

meanwhile, someone who may or may not have leaked to drudge would like you to know that imus illustrates that obama may not be there for black people like hillary/sharpton. i suppose it doesn't matter whether hillary can keep the black vote and therefore the nomination, though. i mean, she would be a "formidable" candidate. even john mccain and newt gingrich have said so.

― gabbneb, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:01 (eighteen years ago)

of, say, mort zuckerman's age

or john turturro's age c. 1989, even

― gabbneb, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:13 (eighteen years ago)

from Hotline Blog...

Chicago Tribune's Page: "I like Don Imus personally. I can't read his heart and say if he's a racist. All I know is he says racist things from time to time" ("Hardball," MSNBC, 4/10).

Congressional Quarterly's Crawford: "I've been on the show nearly 70 times in the last three years. He's called me half a sissy, a communist, a pink liberal, even white trash. I didn't take offense" ("Scarborough Country," MSNBC, 4/10).

you know, Craig Crawford, I like you personally, but...

― gabbneb, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:42 (eighteen years ago)

we should all just be thankful that british people don't know who imus is.

-- ghost rider, Tuesday, 10 April

i was about to say, theres not a single brit on this thread since the imus revival (until now). Yea, no one here will have heard of this guy. And i doubt many british people here will have heard of the phrase 'nappy-headed' either

shall i tell the other brits to come on over?

ok i wont

― 600, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 11:56 (eighteen years ago)

we know what a nappy head is because of the Fugees tune innit?

but no, imus means nuffin to us.

― CharlieNo4, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 12:09 (eighteen years ago)

I had to look up nappyhead to find out what it meant (and all the UK hits are for cool baby gifts).

― onimo, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 12:13 (eighteen years ago)

Jason Whitlock with the, um, Jason Whitlock perspective:

http://www.kansascity.com/182/story/66339.html

― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 13:18 (eighteen years ago)

OH! I was just wondering why there was no Imus thread, and here it is, disguised as a Michael Richards thread.

― Jesse, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

ha ha Jon Swift:

I know what Imus and Coulter and their friends in the media must be feeling. If you can't refer to black people as "nappy-headed," to women as "hos" and "bitches" or homosexuals as "faggots" anymore, how do you refer to them? Could someone please let us know?

― kingfish, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 15:50 (eighteen years ago)

dude is the crypt-keeper. he's pushing 70. should have retired 20 years ago.

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/partypictures/2005/11_03_05/images/bam/Best-of-Brooklyn-12.jpg

― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 15:56 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.johnmcolumbus.com/fotos_b/ConMag_IMUS_Crop9815.jpg

― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 15:59 (eighteen years ago)

"we know what a nappy head is because of the Fugees tune innit?"

The only place i've heard it is "I Wish" by Stevie Wonder

― Frogman Henry, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 16:01 (eighteen years ago)

Haha, he's wearing the Connecticut state uniform!

― Eazy, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 16:02 (eighteen years ago)

First awareness of nappy = School Daze.

― Eazy, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 16:03 (eighteen years ago)

i would like to say that his wife's cleaning products are excellent and i use them every night. in fact, i waxed the floor in the operating room last nite using her floor stripper and wax. they are designed to be safe enough and green enough to be used in pediatric oncology units and they are way less harsh than heavy-duty industrial cleaners.

http://www.dienviro.com/index1.aspx?BD=17866

so, um , hat's off to the idiot's wife!

― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 16:06 (eighteen years ago)

Leave it to TownHall.com to try and accentuate the positive:

http://townhall.com/columnists/KathleenParker/2007/04/11/don_imus_via_dolorosa

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

I saw Imus at a Broadway show once. The camera flatters him.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 16:13 (eighteen years ago)

Why stop with imus when you can go after him & al sharpton at the same time?

― kingfish, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 16:55 (eighteen years ago)

hahaha oh let's all pile on, and quote Top 40 hip hop lyrics now!

― kingfish, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 17:05 (eighteen years ago)

I heard nappy first from one of my Mom's friends, who for a time used it to describe anything unattractive or unpleasant. Like, "Do the dishes, the kitchen is getting nappy." One day she said to me, "You know what that means, don't you?" I admitted that I did not. She whispered, "Nigger-haired!" and then beamed, clearly proud of herself.

― kenan, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

Your mom sounds fat

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

actually, she's tiny. that story wasn't about my mom, though.

― kenan, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 17:12 (eighteen years ago)

I'm wondering what the role of the media has been in escalating this and making it such a huge deal. As far as I can tell Imus has said way worse stuff in the past, so either this is wrong place/wrong time or a sort of built-up payment for years of being an asshole. Seems like it could have just as easily been a non-story.

― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 17:13 (eighteen years ago)

I was thinking the same thing -- this seemed like a typical Morning Zoo half-minstrelsy.

― Eazy, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 17:18 (eighteen years ago)

Zazzier than reporting on boring old war, climate change, and attorney general shenanigans, i guess

― kingfish, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 17:32 (eighteen years ago)

I have pretty conflicted feelings about the comments and reaction. While he has clearly said worse, his statements are such a neat encapsulation (I'd almost say a microcosm) of rich white men denegrating blacks (and especially black women), which is more or less the story of American race relations for 200+ years. I almost want to minimize and maximize them at the same time. And while I'm certain the Rutgers women weren't nearly as shattered as they're making out to be, he absolutely did detract from their moment and tarnish their effort somehow. And yet, the media outcry/coverage helped that happen.....gah.....it's confusing.

― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 17:32 (eighteen years ago)

Imus is a hack and always has been. That so many people have knelt before him is shameful. What a fucking tool.

― Dandy Don Weiner, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

i think it was just out and out MEAN. jeez, that team is the coolest and some of them are just kids. fuck him. hope he goes and rots on his ranch. props to his wife and her excellent floor-wax though. he should stick his throwaway lame-ass comment about people ten times cooler and more talented than him up his ASS.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 18:09 (eighteen years ago)

He's been an asshole for years. I don't know what in the hell compels so many people to go on his show.

― Dandy Don Weiner, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 18:12 (eighteen years ago)

quoting the rich boy song doesn't even make sense, bitch refers to the car in that case.

is townhall a left or right wing site? i've never seen it before.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

right

― gabbneb, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 18:15 (eighteen years ago)

cynical interpretation: sharpton's ensuring hillary doesn't have to go on the show

cynicism justified?

― gabbneb, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 18:21 (eighteen years ago)

What reason could anyone have to oppose him being fired? If some brand new morning talk radio personality was hired by a major network and broadcast nationally over public airwaves, and on his first day on the job he made that same comment and it was met by the same response, what are the odds he would end up staying? Is there some grandfather clause that allows talk veterans to get away with this sort of stuff?

― iiiijjjj, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 18:31 (eighteen years ago)

The only good thing to come out of all of this is Scott's link to the cleaning products.

― Nicole, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_101052815.html

― gabbneb, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 19:03 (eighteen years ago)

What a bold move, to go on record as a powerful white male in the United States, and say that you believe in one of the fundamental tenets of Christianity/Bob Marley.

― iiiijjjj, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 19:12 (eighteen years ago)

man sharpton owns him on that radio show.

― M@tt He1ges0n, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 19:18 (eighteen years ago)

The Obama campaign declined to comment yesterday on its handling of the issue. One adviser pointed out, however, that Obama issued a public comment before the other major Democratic candidates -- including Clinton and former senator John Edwards of North Carolina.

lol double standard lol

― deej, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

I first heard "nappy" in middle school, from classmates.

― jaymc, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 20:00 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.scene-stealers.com/images/uploads/bulworth2.jpeg

― gabbneb, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 20:03 (eighteen years ago)

The "but, but RAP" excuse is terrifically funny for all sorts of reasons -- I mean, even conceding that ever since McCain dropped that guest verse on The Massacre, the language of political talk radio is legitimately comparable to the language of music, it'd seem pretty clear that the black people most critical of these comments (like NAACP leaders or Sharpton) are not exactly huge defenders of misogyny in pop music. But I know conservatives have trouble telling black people apart like that.

One great subtextual irony of the athlete's press conference is that they all had their hair pressed nice and flat for the event.

― nabisco, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 22:32 (eighteen years ago)

Pardon me: athletes'.

― nabisco, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 22:33 (eighteen years ago)

P.S. I am really sick of people who are all like "black people call each other nigger all the time" -- this is a severely fucked-up perception based on people getting their information on What Black People Do All the Time pretty much solely from hip-hop videos and The Wire and shit, and I seriously wonder if people who say that honestly believe that the middle-aged woman in the next cubicle at work seriously goes home to her kids and says "what's up, my niggas, we're having Applebee's tonight!"

-- nabisco (nabisco), Monday, November 20, 2006 2:09 PM (4 months ago)

― river wolf, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 23:09 (eighteen years ago)

he's been dropped by msnbc

― deej, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 23:13 (eighteen years ago)

imus that is, nabisco is otm

― deej, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 23:14 (eighteen years ago)

I'm coming to hate the way these things get so drawn out in the media. Dude is a racist asshole and he sucks anyway, and same is for Michael Richards, and neither should be expressing their hate over the airwaves, and that ought to be it. Why does there have to be all this dramatic public self-flagellation, press-conferencing, summit talks between parties, "public debate" (created by more racist assholes who are angry that their right to be racist assholes is severely threatened), etc.? Wah.

― Hurting 2, Wednesday, 11 April 2007 23:30 (eighteen years ago)

I am really sick of people who are all like "black people call each other nigger all the time" -- this is a severely fucked-up perception based on people getting their information on What Black People Do All the Time pretty much solely from hip-hop videos and The Wire and shit

people = white people, I assume

I get what you're saying, but I'm not really sure what the solution to the problem is.

― Dandy Don Weiner, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:00 (eighteen years ago)

The solution is turn off the tv go out of your fucking house once in a while.

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:03 (eighteen years ago)

http://i15.tinypic.com/447ziug.jpg

same is for Michael Richards,

Whoa hold on, Michael Richard has done this... once and you can say he was provoked whereas Imus has done this multiple times and is, in some respects, a journalist/member of the media/whatever.

I am really sick of people who are all like "black people call each other nigger all the time" -- this is a severely fucked-up perception based on people getting their information on What Black People Do All the Time pretty much solely from hip-hop videos and The Wire and shit

The funny thing is that the rhetoric of these people is often as offensive, profane and violent as what they criticize.

― JW, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:04 (eighteen years ago)

Whoa hold on, Michael Richard has done this... once and you can say he was provoked whereas Imus has done this multiple times and is, in some respects, a journalist/member of the media/whatever.

Yeah but Richards' rant was outright hateful!

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:07 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah Richards went on and on enough that there's not much that can explain it except outright hate, short of maybe a severe nervous breakdown or paranoid episode.

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:14 (eighteen years ago)

When you tell your mom and dad you wish they would die, do you really mean it?

xpost

― JW, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:17 (eighteen years ago)

Which is all the more reason why these apologies are so ridiculous, ESPECIALLY coming from Imus, who is an experienced jock and is very calculated in his "telling it like it is" barbs. The only thing he really feels he did wrong here was to miscalculate. It's like a four-year-old apologizing because mommy got madder than he thought she would. (xpost to self)

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:18 (eighteen years ago)

[/awkward syntax]

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:20 (eighteen years ago)

I think we're on the same page.

― JW, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:23 (eighteen years ago)

heh, was out of country when story broke, am late in stating the obvious, I suppose.

My only other reaction is that the whole thing says almost as much about the nation's prejudice in favor of athletes as it does about racial prejudice. By which I only mean I don't think the story would be as big if Imus had denigrated Henry Louis Gates or something.

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:31 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, I can't see the current ruckus happening if he had called Angela Davis a nappy headed ho.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:41 (eighteen years ago)

i dunno, all of nyc calls a-rod a giant purse swinging homo and no one raises an eyebrow

― rps, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:43 (eighteen years ago)

In fact I've heard WABC jocks say borderline racist things about black politicians and intellectuals plenty of times.

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:44 (eighteen years ago)

OTfuckingM

There was some story about how that game was *surely* the biggest day of their lives. Ughhhhhh.

― JW, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:45 (eighteen years ago)

Ha, yeah, I think the myth and idealization of the scholar-athlete are probably pointing up the horribleness of his target a little bit. But not THAT much, really. People totally suspend the scholar-athelete myth when it comes to black men (accurately, but often selectively aimed at black men), all the time ... and surely the scholar-athelete ideal is way closer to true with women's sports, where there's not loads of money involved ... and they were, athletically speaking, the underdogs here ... and just generally when a small, specific bunch of girls from places like Newark go to college and are an unlikely sports success and then for zero reason you gratuitously insult them w/r/t race and sex (and let's face it, more than anything CLASS), it's just ... ridiculous.

If a right-wing radio guy had said something similar about, say, abstract "welfare recipients," there'd be grumbling and complaint but not this level of furor -- because that's the current mode of subtextual racism. Whereas the Imus comment kinda points back to an older and more blatant and more hurtful form of racism, which is the kind where you remind specific people that no matter WHAT they do -- college, hard-earned athletic success, whatever -- you're still gonna see them as ghetto, as low-class hos, as dirty and worthless and beneath you.

Note that that's the exact same mode as the Gwen Ifill cleaning-lady comment, too! And I hate to say this, because it's going to sound weird, but ... well, people get away with faintly racist comments when they connect them to behavior and culture, insulting abstract stereotypes of bad things that black people are supposedly like. But Gwen Ifill is ... professional, educated, has a newscaster voice, and is socially no different from any white journalist. So calling her the cleaning lady has that same undertow -- "no matter what you do, how successful and mainstream and respectable you are, you're still a nigger."

And I say that'll sound weird because I don't mean to suggest that it's somehow more okay to make racist remarks about poor, uneducated black people than it is to make them about Gwen Ifill. It's just that when you're doing it to Gwen Ifill, you're making it clearer that you're not just one of those racists who has issues with perceptions of "black culture" -- you don't care WHERE black people are in our society, you're still going to keep sneering that they're beneath you.

― nabisco, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:58 (eighteen years ago)

Apparently I don't know how to spell "athlete."

― nabisco, Thursday, 12 April 2007 00:59 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0028,goldstein,16350,1.html

― rps, Thursday, 12 April 2007 01:35 (eighteen years ago)

little thick with the nazi comparisons, esp at the end there.

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 01:54 (eighteen years ago)

By the way, back to Hurting upthread: I think the sad fact is that most Americans don't really care that much if someone is racist, sexist, or classist, so long as they don't feel like they're in the group being insulted. They might not like it, and they'll criticize it, but they don't want anything to change because of it; they cordon off "race" as a specific, minor, and unimportant issue. E.g., in this case, what everyone probably wishes -- from the media Imus works in to his listeners/viewers -- is that he'd just not say anything too over the line, and they could go on as they did before, appreciating him in every other way.

I can understand the impulse behind this kind of cordoning-off -- it's totally natural and makes sense -- but it's all dependent on not really caring how awful these kinds of insults are, and putting your own tastes and convenience above the horribleness of the thing done. (In a way people wouldn't with plenty of other types of horrible comments, actually -- nobody would cordon off a joke about child molestation that way.) Point being that comments like this aren't actually taboo -- people seem to criticize them as "inappropriate," or impolite, but they don't actually get that gut-level taboo "you are a truly bad person for saying that" reaction.

― nabisco, Thursday, 12 April 2007 01:55 (eighteen years ago)

Kiss Me
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/don_imus_freshintel.jpg

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:03 (eighteen years ago)

There was some story about how that game was *surely* the biggest day of their lives. Ughhhhhh.

no one says such things about white athletes

― gabbneb, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:03 (eighteen years ago)

― nabisco, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:07 (eighteen years ago)

i don't think he's that bright

― lfam, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:12 (eighteen years ago)

Like most successful political-radio dudes, he seems like too much of a bull-headed, cantankerous old dick to think of polite ways out of stuff. (Reasonable people make for bad radio -- possibly they spend too much time pausing to actually think about what they're saying.)

― nabisco, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:15 (eighteen years ago)

xxpost That's probably partially the truth, but more true in his head is probably what I joked about earlier about him self-applying the "honky" label. He's thinking, "Well hell, I've always been a bit of a race comedian, how is this so bad?"

they don't actually get that gut-level taboo "you are a truly bad person for saying that" reaction

Which is likely how Imus gets away with saying blatantly racist things. His remarks go un-criticized, and his own attitudes go unexamined. For a long, long time.

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:17 (eighteen years ago)

stern was recounting how many times he heard imus referring to th secretary at wnbc as a n---er,in a riff that actually made me laugh out loud.

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:19 (eighteen years ago)

By now he's like your old racist grampa. He ain't going to change.

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:19 (eighteen years ago)

By the way, back to Hurting upthread: I think the sad fact is that most Americans don't really care that much if someone is racist, sexist, or classist, so long as they don't feel like they're in the group being insulted. They might not like it, and they'll criticize it, but they don't want anything to change because of it; they cordon off "race" as a specific, minor, and unimportant issue. E.g., in this case, what everyone probably wishes -- from the media Imus works in to his listeners/viewers -- is that he'd just not say anything too over the line, and they could go on as they did before, appreciating him in every other way.

I can understand the impulse behind this kind of cordoning-off -- it's totally natural and makes sense -- but it's all dependent on not really caring how awful these kinds of insults are, and putting your own tastes and convenience above the horribleness of the thing done. (In a way people wouldn't with plenty of other types of horrible comments, actually -- nobody would cordon off a joke about child molestation that way.) Point being that comments like this aren't actually taboo -- people seem to criticize them as "inappropriate," or impolite, but they don't actually get that gut-level taboo "you are a truly bad person for saying that" reaction.

okay this actually explains this whole thread in a way that I didn't understand before, so thanks.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:20 (eighteen years ago)

i think what you meant to say was, nabisco OTM

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:21 (eighteen years ago)

I like to use different words sometimes.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:22 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, that was pretty excellent

― gbx, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:23 (eighteen years ago)

i think if u spent alot of time fixing your hair before a huge televised basketball game u would be insulted if someone referred to ypur efforts as "nappy"

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:24 (eighteen years ago)

I imagine Imus to be the kind of guy who excuses himself by thinking/saying things like, "It's no big deal if I call a black person a nigger, because everyone knows I don't really hate black people."

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:25 (eighteen years ago)

stern was recounting how many times he heard imus referring to th secretary at wnbc as a n---er,in a riff that actually made me laugh out loud.

oh my I'd love to hear this.

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:28 (eighteen years ago)

I meant nabisco otm, but also, this is an invisible wall I run up against every time I talk about racism and I think I understand the "argument" such as it is a little better now.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:29 (eighteen years ago)

I think the sad fact is that most Americans don't really care that much if someone is racist, sexist, or classist, so long as they don't feel like they're in the group being insulted. They might not like it, and they'll criticize it, but they don't want anything to change because of it; they cordon off "race" as a specific, minor, and unimportant issue.

Honestly, I think people in general tend to "cordon off" everything that Doesn't Affect Me Directly -- I'm not sure that race is any different in that way. It takes a really massive, visible injustice to activate people's sympathy/outrage to the point of triggering action -- think Emmett Till, or the water hoses.

(Or, to put it differently, to the point where you'll hear someone say things like "I don't much like black people/gay people/etc., but what they did to him ain't right".)

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:32 (eighteen years ago)

It takes a really massive, visible injustice

funny that at that point in my reading of the sentence, i was already thinking "fire hoses".

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:34 (eighteen years ago)

getting beat up is nothing. getting beat up on television, however...

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:35 (eighteen years ago)

Okay also following this story I am really serious about this: Imus's ABSOLUTE best excuse would be to pretend he wasn't aware of the significance of his words! Like, "I was playing with slang, but I'm an old white guy, so I didn't really understand the implications, and I'm really really sorry."

...what do you think the chances of this are, btw? i have, in my life, heard ppl old and young alike "try" out slang and fail miserably. usually, if you call them on it there's an honest "oh no shit? holy crap embarrassing" or a defensive "but THEY etc etc"

― gbx, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:37 (eighteen years ago)

or a defensive "but THEY etc etc"

see also the political cartoons thread

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:38 (eighteen years ago)

then again i'm on a campus where i hear (white) bros answer their cell phones "whuddup my nigga!" all the time

― gbx, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:38 (eighteen years ago)

see also nabisco being otm re: middleaged women and applebee's

― gbx, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:39 (eighteen years ago)

indeed

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:39 (eighteen years ago)

getting beat up is nothing. getting beat up on television, however...

Hey, remember that footage that went around a while back of the UCLA student getting Tazered in the computer lab? Reading a text description of it was one thing, but watching the footage made me want to start a riot. Such is human nature.

― lurker #2421, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:39 (eighteen years ago)

the footage of a chicago cop repeatedly punching and kicking a woman half his size is my current favorite example of same. You can describe it all day long, but hey people do shit. Seeing it makes you nauseated.

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:53 (eighteen years ago)

Um.

― HI DERE, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:55 (eighteen years ago)

i mean, decribing it gets your blood up a little, sure, that's some fucked up repugnant shit. But footage gets an emotional reaction that you can never muster for printed words.

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:57 (eighteen years ago)

this is why i go to the movies.

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 02:59 (eighteen years ago)

There's a media overload problem at work here, too -- we read about horrible things all the time, but most of those things we (to borrow a phrase) cordon off into the part of our brain reserved for same-ol-bad-news. But to see something like firehoses, or Vietnam, or Rodney King, or what have you, it reconnects you with the news in a sudden and lizard-brain kind of way. And our lizard brain is still in charge, ppl, don't think it isn't.

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 03:38 (eighteen years ago)

Re: the scholar athlete/black male thing - at Rutgers, I was part of a group that was lobbying to tone down the football and basketball programs and move them to Div I-AA (not a very popular cause, as you can imagine). I can't tell you how many times I heard people argue "This is the only way a lot of these [inner city black] kids get a chance to get an education."

How can someone say that and not realize what they are implying?

BTW Rutgers had something called the Educational Opportunity Fund, a scholarship/preparation program to bring poor kids to Rutgers (academically promising ones). It was grossly underfunded.

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 12 April 2007 04:35 (eighteen years ago)

had/has

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 12 April 2007 04:35 (eighteen years ago)

he's well-assisted... by two new york tabloid newspapers that, you recall, are GOP and at least centrist/moderately neo-con in orientation...

Way late and upthread, but gabbneb repeatedly OTM in that post and on this thread.

― Ben Boyerrr, Thursday, 12 April 2007 08:52 (eighteen years ago)

Okay also following this story I am really serious about this: Imus's ABSOLUTE best excuse would be to pretend he wasn't aware of the significance of his words! Like, "I was playing with slang, but I'm an old white guy, so I didn't really understand the implications, and I'm really really sorry."

-- nabisco, Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:07 PM (Yesterday)

haha stern has been saying the same thing.

― chaki, Thursday, 12 April 2007 09:18 (eighteen years ago)

NBC News Drops Imus Show Over Racial Remark

By BILL CARTER and LOUISE STORY
Published: April 12, 2007

NBC News dropped Don Imus yesterday, canceling his talk show on its MSNBC cable news channel a week after he made a racially disparaging remark about the Rutgers University women’s basketball team.

The move came after several days of widening calls for Mr. Imus to lose his show both on MSNBC, which simulcasts the “Imus in the Morning” show, and CBS Radio, which originates the show.

CBS Radio, which is the main employer of Mr. Imus, said in a statement last night that it would stick by the two-week suspension of the show that it and NBC News announced earlier; the suspension begins Monday.

But CBS said it would, in the interim, “continue to speak with all concerned parties and monitor the situation closely.”

The demands that Mr. Imus’s show be canceled have grown in intensity every day since last Wednesday when he made the comments, in which he labeled the women “nappy-headed hos.”

Numerous advertisers said yesterday that they would refuse to sponsor the show in the future. Among the advertisers were General Motors, American Express, Sprint Nextel, GlaxoSmithKline, TD Ameritrade and Ditech.com.

NBC said the cancellation was effective immediately. Mr. Imus was scheduled to be the host of a telethon today and tomorrow on radio station WFAN and simulcast on MSNBC to benefit three children’s charities. The network will instead program three hours of news coverage.

Mr. Imus did not respond to telephone messages last night. But Bo Dietl, a security expert who is a frequent guest on Mr. Imus’s show, said last night that he had just talked by telephone with the host, and that his mood was “very down, very upset about what occurred with MSNBC.”

“I said to him that they didn’t even give him time to talk to the victims,” Mr. Dietl said. “He agreed with me.”

The Rev. Al Sharpton, who has been among the leaders of the movement to force Mr. Imus off the air, said in a telephone interview that “we have been halfway successful so far” and that he and others would continue to press CBS to join NBC in cutting ties to Mr. Imus.

Mr. Sharpton said he was organizing a rally to take place today outside CBS’s corporate headquarters on West 52nd Street in Manhattan.

“This has never been about Don Imus,” Mr. Sharpton said. “I have no idea whether he is a good man or not. This is about the use of public airwaves for bigoted, racist speech.”

Senator Barack Obama, the Illinois Democrat who is running for president, called on MSNBC and CBS Radio to disassociate themselves from Mr. Imus, and said that he would never go on the show again. He said he had appeared once, more than two years ago.

“He didn’t just cross the line,” Mr. Obama said in an interview with ABC News. “He fed into some of the worst stereotypes that my two young daughters are having to deal with today in America.”

In its statement, NBC News said the decision “comes as a result of an ongoing review process, which initially included the announcement of a suspension.”

“It also takes into account many conversations with our own employees.”

The statement went on: “What matters to us most is that the men and women of NBC Universal have confidence in the values we have set for this company. This is the only decision that makes that possible.”

NBC also apologized again to the Rutgers team for “the pain this incident has caused.”

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 13:11 (eighteen years ago)

NBC executives said last night that the decision had been made jointly by the NBC Universal president, Jeff Zucker, and the president of NBC News, Steve Capus.

Several NBC employees said that discussions about Mr. Imus had been going on throughout the company over the last few days and that the sentiment among the employees turned out to be a critical factor in the decision to cancel his show.

In one example of that sentiment, Al Roker, the popular weatherman for the “Today” show, wrote a commentary on that show’s Web site calling for the Imus show to be canceled.

Mr. Zucker made the point in an e-mail message he sent to NBC employees last night that conversations with employees had been a driving factor. “Over the past several days, we have had to grapple with an incredibly difficult and sensitive issue,” Mr. Zucker said in the e-mail message.

“After our announcement of the suspension of Don Imus, we have had ongoing discussions with a number of employees and employee groups within our business. The result of these discussions has been very clear. NBC Universal has a strong reputation for integrity and our employees value that integrity tremendously.

“Those conversations have led to the decision Steve Capus and I made today.”

Mr. Capus in an interview on MSNBC last night said that in his view, the comment Mr. Imus made was racist. He added that it was far from the first time Mr. Imus had made insensitive or offensive comments on his show.

“There have been any number of other comments that have been enormously hurtful to far too many people,” Mr. Capus said. “And my feeling is that there should not be a place for that on MSNBC.”

MSNBC paid a fee to CBS to simulcast the show, about $4 million a year. It was spending about $500,000 a year to produce the show for television. For that investment, it earned what it labeled a modest profit.

But the show, which has been seen on MSNBC since 1996, was helpful to NBC in other ways. It provided a forum and promotional platform for many NBC News personalities. The show is of far more value to CBS Radio, and its flagship station, WFAN, which, in addition to the rights fees from NBC, get nearly $20 million in advertising and syndication revenue from the show; the show’s individual radio affiliates, collectively, earn another $20 million in revenue, according to people apprised of the show’s finances. The show is also widely syndicated by Westwood One, which is managed by CBS.

But NBC executives, who asked not to be identified because they were not authorized to discuss personnel matters, said that the program had only minimal impact on MSNBC’s budget.

In an interview on MSNBC last night, Mr. Capus said advertising money was not a determining factor.

“What price do you put on your reputation?” Mr. Capus said. “And the reputation of the news division means more to me than advertising dollars. Because if you lose your reputation, you lose everything.”

CBS executives, including the chairman, Leslie Moonves, continued to hold meetings yesterday with groups protesting Mr. Imus’s remark. Among these was the National Association of Black Journalists, which was one of the first groups to demand the cancellation of his show.

Mr. Imus also held a meeting with CBS executives yesterday, according to one executive who was informed of the meeting. CBS put off any further action beyond the suspension, the executive said, in part because Mr. Imus had asked for time to meet with members of the Rutgers team. He was tentatively scheduled to hold that meeting some time today.

At an afternoon rally on the Rutgers campus, students chanted anti-Imus slogans and waved protest signs. State Senator Nia H. Gill of New Jersey, who earned a law degree from Rutgers, called on the college to boycott companies that advertise on the show and said she would introduce a measure in the Legislature calling for New Jersey to stop buying products from companies that advertise with him.

The controversy helped push the ratings of “Imus in the Morning” on MSNBC to their highest level in months. On Tuesday, 624,000 people tuned in, a 50 percent increase from a week ago, according to estimates from Nielsen Media Research. An additional 1.6 million people typically listen to the program on the radio, according to Arbitron.

Starting this week, large advertisers began telling MSNBC and CBS not to broadcast their ads during “Imus in the Morning.” The companies, like Procter & Gamble and Staples, said they were dismayed that their brands had been associated with Mr. Imus’s offensive remark.

“Those comments, they’re just not consistent with our values, and we’re not going to be a part of it,” said Stephen Dupont, a spokesman for Ditech.com, a home loan company, which asked MSNBC on Monday to remove its ads from the show.

Although advertisers have been aware that the program often veered into politically incorrect territory and beyond, “this kind of woke a lot of people to the dark side of Imus,” said Fran Kelly, chief executive of Arnold Worldwide, an advertising agency. “He’s got every right to be on the air and say what he wants to say, but advertisers have every right to vote with their dollars.”

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 13:11 (eighteen years ago)

our dad is a big imus fan,but strangely only homophobic(male) and not th least bit racist.

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 14:23 (eighteen years ago)

http://odeo.com/audio/10654513/play
al rosenberg is to blame for alot of societyz ills

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 14:34 (eighteen years ago)

"It was completely inappropriate, and we can understand why people were offended. Our characterization was thoughtless and stupid, so, and we're sorry."

I would just like to say at this point how much I fucking LOATHE the editorial "we". HATE HATE HATE.

The way advertisers are fleeing, I think he won't survive the two-week suspension. Back to the ranch, asshole!

― Rock Hardy, Thursday, 12 April 2007 14:36 (eighteen years ago)

weird "i have lots of black friends" explanation
http://www.wfan.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=601845

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 14:47 (eighteen years ago)

oh god so tortured. kinda creepy too how all of his black friends are dying black children, but what the hell, it's a start...

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1556803/20070410/snoop_dogg.jhtml

― gabbneb, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

meanwhile,the best race humor of the week, BY FAR, was when john oliver on the daily show handed the israeli u.n. ambassador a copy of his screenplay Pimpin' Is Easy so that he could give it to the Jews in Hollywood. And then he made the ambassador play the role of Cinammon and read lines with him. Hahahahahahaha! what a hoot.

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:36 (eighteen years ago)

http://media.odeo.com/8/6/7/www.CrystalOne.net_-_Howard_Stern_Show_04.10.2007.mp3

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

"meanwhile,the best race humor of the week, BY FAR, was when john oliver on the daily show handed the israeli u.n. ambassador a copy of his screenplay Pimpin' Is Easy so that he could give it to the Jews in Hollywood. And then he made the ambassador play the role of Cinammon and read lines with him. Hahahahahahaha! what a hoot."

link
http://www.ifilm.com/video/2841774/show/17676

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:42 (eighteen years ago)

"There is a nasty conspiracy theory going around that your country is run by Jews."

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:49 (eighteen years ago)

hahahahahahaha

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:50 (eighteen years ago)

thanks for the link. what is up with the 100% AWFULNESS of comedy central's video site?

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:53 (eighteen years ago)

i dont know,but at least there are a million other sites,,,,that motherlode player is a piece of crap

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:53 (eighteen years ago)

In fact I've heard WABC jocks say borderline racist things

Someone way way upthread mentioned Bob Grant, who had a thriving MetroNYC radio career (embraced by tons of area Republican pols) on WMCA and WABC, circa 1970-90s, saying shit like Imus' every day as his core message. He had a 'serious' call-in show.

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:53 (eighteen years ago)

worst web-sites i have ever seen:

various t.v. web-sites

various newspaper web-sites

various movie company web-sites

various big record company web-sites

various print magazine web-sites

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:55 (eighteen years ago)

i don't think th debate is whether or not many other racist,off color,"jokes" have been broadcast..but more how do u finesse them into acceptance

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:57 (eighteen years ago)

being funny helps.

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:57 (eighteen years ago)

exactly,and we have no tolerance from reptile whispers

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

for

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

web-site with the dash in it is so refreshing! thanks scott!

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 12 April 2007 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

I was really dumbstruck at how he 'reinvented' himself as a political pundit by having Beltway guests. Never heard him do anything but regurgitate the LCD shit from network/cable news, and he didn't even to appear to understand most of that.

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 12 April 2007 16:02 (eighteen years ago)

"Howard proceeded to turn the discussion back to Imus, with Robin recalling how he once called her the n-word while she was talking to his girlfriend when they worked at NBC together. Howard added he heard Imus use the same word when talking to an African American secretary at the station as well. Howard then played a prank call Richard and Sal made using Imus’ voice from his apology on Al Sharpton’s radio show calling a man named Sharpton."....mashups already

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

i always spell website like that. i'm sorry! wait, is it two words or one?

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

W.e_B)_S:"ITe i think

― danbunny, Thursday, 12 April 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

in bob herbert's column today in the new york times he quotes the 60 minutes interview with imus where imus tells mike wallace that Mcguirk was only on the show to tell "nigger jokes".

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 16:09 (eighteen years ago)

Imus really calls his wife the "green ho"? that's what he says in that audio up top.

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

But if anyone is to make a racial crack, or an unflattering reference to Jews, it is often Mr. McGuirk, sometimes in the guise of C. Ray Nagin, the mayor of New Orleans, who is black, or often in his own voice. He has, for example, been known to refer to the New York Knicks as chest-bumping pimps.

Mr. McGuirk did not respond to a message left yesterday with his assistant in the Imus office. But in an interview with The New York Times in May 2000 he defended the breadth of the show’s humor, even if some blacks in particular might be offended in the process.

“It’s meant to be descriptive, not pejorative,” he said . “If the N.B.A. were peopled by a bunch of Romanians, we’d be making fun of Romanians. To not satirize someone just because of their race, I think that would be patronizing and racist in itself.”

“The bottom line is, I’m not a bigot,” he said in 2000, before adding that he had “lived amongst blacks all my life,” having grown up in the James Monroe Houses in the South Bronx. Mr. McGuirk also said that the co-op in Long Beach, N.Y., where he later lived had a directory in the lobby that “read like Schindler’s list, for crying out loud.”

“Yes, I arrive at the studio at 5 a.m. each day, but before I do, on my way out I shine my lawn jockeys, and then I stop at the cemetery and knock over Jewish tombstones,” he said. “Oh please.”

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 16:12 (eighteen years ago)

He thinks the "Some of my best friends are ____" defense is underutilized.

― Dr Morbius, Thursday, 12 April 2007 16:14 (eighteen years ago)

okay, even lamer than the "i have black friends" defense HAS to be the "i have lived near black people and jews in my life" as a defense.

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 16:20 (eighteen years ago)

"I am aware that other races exist."

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 16:20 (eighteen years ago)

To not satirize someone just because of their race, I think that would be patronizing and racist in itself.

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 12 April 2007 17:19 (eighteen years ago)

Bernard McGuirk, is the Executive Producer of the “Imus in the Morning” radio program. McGuirk had been the producer of the program since 1987. As executive producer, McGuirk is responsible for overseeing the program’s on-air operations and guest bookings.

McGuirk is also the program’s quick-witted on-air contributor, and is the voice and creator of such recurring characters as the famous Cardinal O’Connor, The Champ, and Maya Angelou.

Joining 66 WNBC-AM Radio in 1984, McGuirk was a desk assistant in the promotions department before joining “Imus in the Morning” in 1987. In addition to his position with WNBC-AM, McGuirk was also a desk assistant with NBC Nightly News from 1986-87.

A graduate of Mount St. Vincent College in Riverdale, N.Y., McGuirk resides in Long Beach, N.Y., with his wife Carol and their two children.

― rps, Thursday, 12 April 2007 17:25 (eighteen years ago)

Mr. McGuirk also said that the co-op in Long Beach, N.Y., where he later lived had a directory in the lobby that “read like Schindler’s list, for crying out loud.”

― and what, Thursday, 12 April 2007 17:36 (eighteen years ago)

http://animatedtv.about.com/library/graphics/hmguirk.jpg

― kenan, Thursday, 12 April 2007 17:38 (eighteen years ago)

hah i'll be honest thats exactly what i kept thinking

― deej, Thursday, 12 April 2007 17:47 (eighteen years ago)

not only is Imus a racist and misogynist but his comments have had the unexpected effect of unintentionally poisoning "home movies"

― deej, Thursday, 12 April 2007 17:48 (eighteen years ago)

The longer this story goes on, the more of a mindfuck it is to me that this guy has any sort of cultural pull, with anybody.

― call all destroyer, Thursday, 12 April 2007 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

have you heard of howard stern?

― Ms Misery, Thursday, 12 April 2007 19:13 (eighteen years ago)

does this make three?

― gabbneb, Thursday, 12 April 2007 19:40 (eighteen years ago)

x-post

Um, yeah. Couldn't tell you a thing about him.

― call all destroyer, Thursday, 12 April 2007 19:48 (eighteen years ago)

If Imus is confused about all this, I can't say I would blame him. Here he potters along for years making grotesquely offensive remarks about anyone who seems remotely worth blathering about - including racist slurs and crotch-grabbing rudeness - and all that happens is he gets rewarded with fatter and fatter paychecks, larger audiences and a certain sycophantic public admiration, until now. Now suddenly the roof falls on him. What could he possibly make of that?

On the other hand, good riddance to bad rubbish.

― Aimless, Thursday, 12 April 2007 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

CBS has fired him now as well.

― Nicole, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:08 (eighteen years ago)

good.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:09 (eighteen years ago)

He also expressed bitterness that MSNBC had “pulled the plug” on televising his program less than 12 hours before the fundraiser was to begin. “They got their pound of flesh and made their decision,” he said.

Do you think Imus realizes where this phrase comes from?

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:34 (eighteen years ago)

OMG

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:35 (eighteen years ago)

He said that today.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

hahahaha KEEP DIGGING, DUDE

― river wolf, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:39 (eighteen years ago)

Aimless OTM

― Eazy, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:40 (eighteen years ago)

zomg

― Catsupppppppppppppp dude ‫茄蕃‪, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:41 (eighteen years ago)

I haven't seen Imus since a few episodes I watched around the time Brokeback Mountain came out, and it was hard to take much of the sidekick-you-go-I-Man combined with the bile.

― Eazy, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:42 (eighteen years ago)

Ann Coulter weighs in on Hannity and Colmes

Apparently, its all a part of the effort to squash conservative voices on the radio.

Even though Imus is a Liberal.

Er.

Um.

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:44 (eighteen years ago)

i don't even want to watch that

― river wolf, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:44 (eighteen years ago)

someone do it for me

― river wolf, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:44 (eighteen years ago)

no way

― sleep, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:47 (eighteen years ago)

Imus should totally go on an expletive-n-epithet laced rant now that he's "free" of any professional constraints. that would be entertaining.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:48 (eighteen years ago)

just watch it with the sound off, only paying attention to goatee guy on the far right, and count how often he gets to intrude on Hannity and Coulter's circle jerk.

xxpost

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:48 (eighteen years ago)

haha, anne coulter sometimes otm there!

― Catsupppppppppppppp dude ‫茄蕃‪, Thursday, 12 April 2007 21:57 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, I wonder why they're going after Imus, which you have guys like Michael Savage still broadcasting.

― kingfish, Thursday, 12 April 2007 22:09 (eighteen years ago)

i'm not gonna read the ann coulter thing but does she admit she should be fired from whatever it is she does?

― gabbneb, Thursday, 12 April 2007 22:23 (eighteen years ago)

no reading required. you only have to watch it.

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 12 April 2007 22:45 (eighteen years ago)

ok that one edited horribly and makes really awkward jumps from one point to the next. when it aired, there was a lot more talk about how this is the Left getting back at the Right for taking away the media.

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 12 April 2007 22:52 (eighteen years ago)

reader's letter in today's AJC:

Al Sharpton needs to find his sense of humor

The Poles, the Irish, the Swedes, the Jews have all been subjects of humor —- sometimes insensitive —- but they have taken it in good humor and dished it out as well. This is called freedom of speech!!!

Where is good ol' Al Sharpton's outrage when a black rapper has a "song" about killing "Whitey" or some similar outrage? I think ol' Al needs to shut his mouth for the first time in his life and get over it!

GORDON HELD, Young Harris

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 12 April 2007 22:59 (eighteen years ago)

i am loving colbert's anti-hungarian rants on the colbert report this week. he calls them goulies! and his fake radio show clips are fun too.

― scott seward, Thursday, 12 April 2007 23:03 (eighteen years ago)

a black rapper has a "song" about killing "Whitey" or some similar outrage

YSI?

― max, Thursday, 12 April 2007 23:06 (eighteen years ago)

i love the clueless middle-aged goomba costume: the american flag ballcap, the baseball jacket*, etc.

http://static.crooksandliars.com/2007/04/colbert-lauer.jpg

*jacket for the Saginaw Eagles hockey team, no less, the one with Steagle Colbeagle.

― kingfish, Thursday, 12 April 2007 23:09 (eighteen years ago)

oh Townhall.com, surely YOU can provide us with wisdom to make sense of this whole mess:

Cal Thomas gets in jabs about "Hymietown" and "Corporate executives who trade in the worst of the hip-hop filth", and wonders "Where are the First Amendment defenders in all this?"

Why aren't these keepers of the First Amendment flame coming to the defense of Don Imus? It's because they have a double standard. Evangelical Christians, practicing Roman Catholics, politically conservative Republicans, home-schoolers and others who are not in favor among the liberal elite are frequent targets for the left. Anything may be said about them, and it frequently is. But let someone insult the left's "protected classes," be they African Americans, homosexuals or to a lesser extent, adherents to the religion of "global warming," and they must be silenced and punished.

and [Removed Illegal Link], who asks the same questions as the Jon Swift link did upthread, oddly enough, before going on another strawman rampage:

The requirement to always "be nice" would be the end of Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle, two of the funniest comedians in America. Let me rephrase that: It would be the end of all humor. Even Bob Hope cruelly implied that Democrats didn't support the troops when he joked to the troops in Vietnam: "The country is behind you 50 percent."

At least we'll still be able to watch the "Charlie Rose" show! Actually, for all anyone knows, Rose is calling women "nappy-headed hos" on TV every night since no one has ever seen his show.

and Ann complains that Sarah Silverman can be racist, but she can't, then goes on to start quoting Churchill. Really.

― kingfish, Thursday, 12 April 2007 23:39 (eighteen years ago)

dammit, that second link:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/AnnCoulter/2007/04/11/ho_ho_ho,_merry_imus!

― kingfish, Thursday, 12 April 2007 23:39 (eighteen years ago)

be sure to add the exclaimation point.

― kingfish, Thursday, 12 April 2007 23:40 (eighteen years ago)

Why aren't these keepers of the First Amendment flame coming to the defense of Don Imus?

Any mention of the First Amendment in all this is total red herring. The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law abridging freedom of speech." Last I heard, Congress and federal law had nothing to do with Mr. Imus's mess.

His woes are purely free-market-driven. IOW, his sponsors are deserting him. Isn't that their cherished, hard-won and god-given right, according to the WSJ and other bastions of Capitalism Untrammeled? Sheesh! Get consistent, you righty pundits. Read the program for christsakes.

― Aimless, Thursday, 12 April 2007 23:58 (eighteen years ago)

McGuirk is also the program’s quick-witted on-air contributor, and is the voice and creator of such recurring characters as... Maya Angelou.

Huh? Can someone explain this to me, please?

― emil.y, Friday, 13 April 2007 00:38 (eighteen years ago)

HE DOES BAD MORNING ZOO IMPERSONATIONS.

― chaki, Friday, 13 April 2007 00:41 (eighteen years ago)

ILX: Don Imus is pretty

― gershy, Friday, 13 April 2007 03:16 (eighteen years ago)

He also expressed bitterness that MSNBC had “pulled the plug” on televising his program less than 12 hours before the fundraiser was to begin. “They got their pound of flesh and made their decision,” he said.

ADL PRESIDENT LAUGHING TOO HARD TO PURSUE ACTION

― Hurting 2, Friday, 13 April 2007 03:20 (eighteen years ago)

Maya Angelou'd be the best comedy character ever!

― President Evil, Friday, 13 April 2007 03:29 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alec-baldwin/what-imus-really-did-wron_b_45676.html

― gabbneb, Friday, 13 April 2007 10:06 (eighteen years ago)

also remember that maybe none of this happens - the real consequences that have rolled out over the last few days - without sharpton.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 10:22 (eighteen years ago)

millions of black women would never have heard the phrase 'nappy-headed hos' repeated ad infinitum on radio and television?

― gabbneb, Friday, 13 April 2007 10:24 (eighteen years ago)

it gets repeated ad infinitum in large part because of sharpton and his efforts. stop trying to deny the man credit!

all these other big media names going "hem haw, it wuz bad but i know he's not a racist" - alec baldwin, mike lupica being two that i've read today - remind me a lot of the nick sylvester thing, where it was instantly clear who considered themselves personal friends and who didn't have that stake in it.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 10:30 (eighteen years ago)

I was, for purposes of argument, giving the man credit, of course, and suggesting that it was a net negative even if imus got fired, which obviously sharpton had something to do with but neither of us could really say how much, and i imagine it has a lot more to do with former naacp head bruce gordon and big liberal les moonves. for nbc, it was a no-brainer - no one watches msnbc anyway.

― gabbneb, Friday, 13 April 2007 10:50 (eighteen years ago)

http://select.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/opinion/12herbert.html?n=Top%2fOpinion%2fEditorials%20and%20Op%2dEd%2fOp%2dEd%2fColumnists%2fBob%20Herbert

― gabbneb, Friday, 13 April 2007 11:26 (eighteen years ago)

Any mention of the First Amendment in all this is total red herring. The First Amendment states that "Congress shall make no law abridging freedom of speech." Last I heard, Congress and federal law had nothing to do with Mr. Imus's mess.
-- Aimless,

OTM. It's amazing how much the First Amendment and "Free Speech" get tossed around without anyone thinking about what they actually mean. "Free Speech" doesn't mean you get to be an asshole at work without repercussions from your employer. A private business like Wal-Mart refusing to sell a CD because they don't like the cover art isn't "censorship." If it doesn't have to do with the GOVERNMENT suppressing expression, it had nothing to do with the First Amendment.

― Mark Rich@rdson, Friday, 13 April 2007 13:15 (eighteen years ago)

The proper phrase here is "$10 million-a-year speech."

I had no idea Clear Channel had sold WFAN to CBS.

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 13 April 2007 13:18 (eighteen years ago)

a black rapper has a "song" about killing "Whitey" or some similar outrage

YSI?

-- max, Friday, April 13, 2007 1:06 AM (14 hours ago)

hahaha, exactly what I was thinking.

http://www.cfxweb.net/civax/pics/eddie_murphy_ktwp_tn.jpg

― Ms Misery, Friday, 13 April 2007 13:20 (eighteen years ago)

Also, Cal Thomas is a primo Ninth Circle liar. Bill Maher, of all ppl, once caught him on his panel trying to claim he "marched with Martin Luther King" ... when he'd done so as a reporter.

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 13 April 2007 13:21 (eighteen years ago)

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3040/ph20050825020547ez.jpg

― and what, Friday, 13 April 2007 13:25 (eighteen years ago)

Red State Son on the endgame:

As CBS chief Leslie Moonves piously put it to his employees, "At the end of the day, the integrity of our company and the respect that you feel for CBS becomes the most important consideration." Oh yeah. Can't you feel the moral power? ...
Of course, Rev. Moonves didn't explain why CBS carried Imus's show for as long as it did, subsidizing countless hours of racist, sexist chatter, or why instead of just firing the old hack from the get-go, it placed Imus on a two-week suspension. But then, the road to Damascus is a winding one, and not everyone can see the hallowed light and convert at the same time.

So, barring a possible move to satellite radio, Don Imus is through, and we can get on with the other, many distractions from the real world that is the American way. Praise white Jesus!

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 13 April 2007 14:42 (eighteen years ago)

i would think that satellite radio would be happy to have him. how many of imus's regular listeners would have actually stopped listening to him if he hadn't been fired? probably not that many.

― scott seward, Friday, 13 April 2007 14:54 (eighteen years ago)

Probably not. But I don't know how many old folks will bother signing up for satellite radio either.

― Nicole, Friday, 13 April 2007 14:57 (eighteen years ago)

imus will definitely have another show. listener numbers like that, and an ego like that, will ensure it.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:01 (eighteen years ago)

Cluelessness continues

Also, i think the guy's pretty likely to wind up on satellite.

― kingfish, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:16 (eighteen years ago)

okay i never knew what townhall.com was until now and i think i was better off not knowing. i don't need to see dumb stuff like that. that's just blogging with a fancy logo.

― scott seward, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:22 (eighteen years ago)

It's where I get all the great political cartoons from, too.

A winner of a site.

― kingfish, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:28 (eighteen years ago)

The first paragraph of that townhall thing seems sort of right to me though:

Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson didn’t kill Don Imus’ show. It was a suicide, and that the vultures showed up shouldn’t confuse us about what happened. When Imus took an off ramp and drove forty blocks out of his way to run over the Rutgers women hoopsters –and then backed over them again while turning the car around to get back—he did himself in. It just took a few days for him to bleed out. The vultures always show up, but make no mistake. Imus has Imus to blame: His sponsors wanted nothing to do with his brand once that brand got recognition outside of the relatively small world that watched or listened to Imus. That’s the market, not the P.C. police. Imus could slag any player he wanted to, and probably have thrown down a few race cards in the process and remained untouched. He certainly did so with PBS’s Gwen Ifill. But college kids playing sports who are not within a hundred miles of a political debate –that’s far beyond the limits of what the public can stomach, or at least enough of the public to turn the sponsors’ heads away in shame.

― Hurting 2, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:29 (eighteen years ago)

xxpost, that's a fancy logo?!?

― Ms Misery, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:31 (eighteen years ago)

okay, a blog with A LOGO, how about that. a glorified blog. whatever. it's just bad.

― scott seward, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:34 (eighteen years ago)

"vultures"?

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

sorry scott, ;) </graphic designer>

― Ms Misery, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

by the way, imus has denied ever saying anything about gwen ifill

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:43 (eighteen years ago)

he doesn't remember, it was the tequila.

― kenan, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:44 (eighteen years ago)

I love when people deny things that are publicly on record

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:45 (eighteen years ago)

Ok, not the vultures part, but it's still a decent move to admit that Imus deserves what he's getting

― Hurting 2, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:45 (eighteen years ago)

god forbid our television, print and radio journalists actually dig up the transcripts to show us what was said and by whom before they just repeat whatever anybody else is saying. has anyone EVER seen the transcript where imus supposedly calls her a "cleaning lady"? i'm not saying it didn't happen but it would be nice to actually see it.

shakey where is the transcript?

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:47 (eighteen years ago)

and before you all get all "well it's the kind of thing he would say" or "he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt" or whatever just remember that's exactly the way people you like get trashed in the media, too - winners and losers are chosen up and then everyone piles on the storyline

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:49 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not terribly adamant about this thread living its life out to its fullest, but Mr. Seward is starting to piss me off.

-- Noilly Prat (kenan), Tuesday, November 21, 2006 10:02 PM (4 months ago)

hahahaha, i forgot about that part of this thread. you should have called al sharpton!! he would have taken care of my drunken behaviour. "i am a good person and i did a bad thing."

― scott seward, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:54 (eighteen years ago)

:)

I got over it quick.

― kenan, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:55 (eighteen years ago)

Tracer - Audio record probably belongs to the reporter he said it to.

"Lars-Erik Nelson disclosed Imus's smear against Gwen Ifill in his column in the New York Daily News in 1998 ("Isn't the Times wonderful" Nelson quotes Imus as saying, circa 1995, "It lets the cleaning lady cover the White House.")"

^ Philip Nobile (July/August 2000). In the kingdom of Imus, the courtiers are quiet. Columbia Journalism Review. Retrieved on 2007 April 12.
^ Gwen Ifill (2007-04-10). Trask Talk Radio. The New York Times. Retrieved on 2007 April 12.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3613/is_200007/ai_n8921227

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/10/opinion/10ifill.html?_r=1&oref=slogin7/04/10/opinion/10ifill.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:55 (eighteen years ago)

someone at work last nite totally brought up the rap thing. about all the rappers who say this stuff all the time and nobody does anything about it. it's weird how people can immediately latch on to stuff like that. weird and kinda typical and dumb.

― scott seward, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:57 (eighteen years ago)

Last I heard, Congress and federal law had nothing to do with Mr. Imus's mess.

People have called on the FCC to fine him

― JW, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

if it upsets them then they should call al sharpton and do something about it!

― Ms Misery, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

"I don't understand why all these white people got so offended when I talked about satan crucifying their children and drinking their blood. Heavy Metal singers say that sort of thing all the time and no one complains. I must be misusing the slang"

― Hurting 2, Friday, 13 April 2007 15:59 (eighteen years ago)

Hurting as both Sharpton and those athletes have said, this is not, or should not be about whether Don Imus "is a racist" or whether he deserves what he gets, this is about hateful ignorant speech over the public airwaves, whoever says it, and calling jesse jackson and al sharpton "vultures" while focusing on the exact opposite of what sharpton and the athletes have said about it is a pretty high-level way of missing the point

shakey yeah, i mean - was imus supposed to have said this on his show? in an interview? as one of his characters on the show (many of whom say obviously hateful things but are not supposed to be sympathetic in any way?)

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:01 (eighteen years ago)

the highlight - or lowlight maybe - of this whole thing was when imus said "that's a bunch of jive" on sharpton's radio show! cuz imus, too me, is totally of the era of jive turkeys. that's when i first heard him. in the 70's along with harry harrison and all those other new york deejays. this is when i still toted a denim jimmy jj walker "dynomite" bookbag and wore my dad's denim cap with all the pockets in it.

― scott seward, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

jive turkeys -vs- vultures

― scott seward, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

Tracer - I don't know, it doesn't look like Nelson's column is online. But I would suspect its from an interview...? If it was something he said on the air on his show it would be recorded somewhere and available and specifically cited.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

yeah. it's sort of buried in the mists of time. like when kerry said "who among us doesn't love nascar?" or when gore "said" he invented the internet. look i mean it's definitely a side point but i've never been a huge fan of ifill. she writes this column about imus a couple of days ago, where she repeats the cleaning lady story, saying she'd heard about it from someone else, and ends by saying "Yesterday, [Imus] began telling people he never actually called me a cleaning lady. Whatever. This is not about me." - "whatever"? that's the journalist's reaction? and if it's not about you why have you spent seven paragraphs talking about yourself?

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:12 (eighteen years ago)

Here's what Imus says about it:

“We had a bit on the radio called ‘Imus in Washington,’ which was like fake news. And I had a fake -- like a David Duke character. And Gwen Ifill had just been named the White House correspondent for NBC News. And this David Duke-like character, reflecting the philosophy and the attitude of the Reagan administration said, isn't it great that Gwen Ifill had been invited back to the White House as a cleaning lady.”

“And for years people have said I said that. I didn't say that. We were -- that was satire. That was a reflection of the racism we perceived of that administration. And for years I have had to -- people have said, well, you said this about Gwen Ifill, I did not say that.”

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:14 (eighteen years ago)

ding ding ding ding

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

gwen ifill: "it's the same thing!!"

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:16 (eighteen years ago)

seven paragraphs? dude it was like a 5 paragraph essay. Her point in even mentioning it was to emphasize that she's never paid attention to the guy

xxps to tracer

― deej, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:16 (eighteen years ago)

did he have a 'character' call Patrick Ewing "Mighty Joe Young"?

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

deej i'm talking about her ny times op-ed

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:18 (eighteen years ago)

anyway, while Imus' explanation strikes me as kinda disingenuous and self-serving (bear in mind I've always hated him), you have a point about this not being very well-documented and spreading all viral-styleee

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:19 (eighteen years ago)

xp so am I, i think?

― deej, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:20 (eighteen years ago)

ok its more paragraphs than i thought but paragraphs usually implies more than two sentences per. and its 5 'paragraphs' anyway

― deej, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:21 (eighteen years ago)

what is your point? my point is that she says "this is not about me" after spending approx 1/3 of her piece repeating a very misleading story about herself!

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:22 (eighteen years ago)

The Ifill thing (if we accept his explanation) would be another example of stuff like Randy Newman being accused of being a bigot by the MSM for penning "Short People." But what little I've heard of Imus' "satire" smells of using characters to say stuff his audience finds straight-on funny, ie black reporter as cleaning lady.

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:23 (eighteen years ago)

1. I know, because he apparently did it to me.

2. I was covering the White House for this newspaper in 1993, when Mr. Imus’s producer began calling to invite me on his radio program. I didn’t return his calls. I had my hands plenty full covering Bill Clinton.

3. Soon enough, the phone calls stopped. Then quizzical colleagues began asking me why Don Imus seemed to have a problem with me. I had no idea what they were talking about because I never listened to the program.

4. It was not until five years later, when Mr. Imus and I were both working under the NBC News umbrella — his show was being simulcast on MSNBC; I was a Capitol Hill correspondent for the network — that I discovered why people were asking those questions. It took Lars-Erik Nelson, a columnist for The New York Daily News, to finally explain what no one else had wanted to repeat.

5. “Isn’t The Times wonderful,” Mr. Nelson quoted Mr. Imus as saying on the radio. “It lets the cleaning lady cover the White House.”

6. I was taken aback but not outraged. I’d certainly been called worse and indeed jumped at the chance to use the old insult to explain to my NBC bosses why I did not want to appear on the Imus show.

7. I haven’t talked about this much. I’m a big girl. I have a platform. I have a voice. I’ve been working in journalism long enough that there is little danger that a radio D.J.’s juvenile slap will define or scar me. Yesterday, he began telling people he never actually called me a cleaning lady. Whatever. This is not about me.

...

oh, and:

8. Yes, he did. Every time a young black girl shyly approaches me for an autograph or writes or calls or stops me on the street to ask how she can become a journalist, I feel an enormous responsibility. It’s more than simply being a role model. I know I have to be a voice for them as well.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:24 (eighteen years ago)

morbs you could certainly make that argument, and having a fuller picture of the lines in the david duke character's sketch could help you decide.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:32 (eighteen years ago)

#8 ugh

― JW, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:32 (eighteen years ago)

yeah i dunno, there's a bit of a difference between "i didn't say that" and "i said that as part of my hee-larious david duke-type character routine in which we all get to make and laugh at racist jokes while pretending to make fun of racists."

― tipsy mothra, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:34 (eighteen years ago)

People have called on the FCC to fine him

And I call upon Jehovah to smite him. And I call upon Michael Richards to shun him. And I call upon the entire population of China and Mongolia to make fun of him. But I haven't had much luck, yet.

― Aimless, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

here's what imus should have done. he should have gone on sharpton's show and immediately started crying and then said: "please forgive me reverend al. when i was young i was taught how to speak jive by a man, no, not even a man, more of a WOLFman, and even though i know it's not right and that i go too far sometimes, it's like an addiction..." the nation would have wept for don.

― scott seward, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:44 (eighteen years ago)

the jive talking wolf man will be imus' replacement

― kenan, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

in some ways the most bizarre thing ifill says is "I’ve been working in journalism long enough that there is little danger that a radio D.J.’s juvenile slap will define or scar me."

so, like, those athletes really shouldn't have worried so much? many, many people are defined and scarred by juvenile talk radio slaps - in the case of presidential candidates they can be defined and scarred right out of the race! but ifill has been working in journalism long enough to know that this just isn't true.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

the jive talking wolf man will be imus' replacement

uh Wolfman Jack is dead

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

she's just trying not to look like a whiner

― kenan, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

wolfman jack was awesome!

― M@tt He1ges0n, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

uh Wolfman Jack is dead

oh HA i missed the wolfman jack reference

― kenan, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

imus is so amazingly vile looking

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:55 (eighteen years ago)

Shakey Mo's Top 3 Radio Personalities of All Time

1. Johnny Otis
2. Paul Harvey
3. Wolfman Jack

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

where is Art Bell?

― kenan, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:58 (eighteen years ago)

not on the air in SoCal?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 13 April 2007 16:59 (eighteen years ago)

where is Jean Shepherd?

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:00 (eighteen years ago)

I don't know either of those people. hey its a short list!

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:01 (eighteen years ago)

I think Ifill's comment about her not being hurt was in the context of her saying, "I have a platform. I have a voice." IOW, she has just as big a megaphone as any radio DJ and can be heard on equal terms, thus not being required to fill the role of an aggrieved victim.

The Rutgers basketball team don't have a platform with millions of listeners, unless they are able take their grievance to the media and win a hearing. Ifill is a media insider who has her own television program and a newspaper byline, so she can bite back directly if she wants. No need to get hurt when she can get even.

― Aimless, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:28 (eighteen years ago)

Well, not just that, but "I've been working in journalism long enough" = she's established, confident in her professional abilities, and not running for anything, which is a much better point to shrug off barbs than when you're 19 or 20 and just lost a basketball game.

― nabisco, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:33 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, i'm sure gwen could fill a book with the crap she's had to endure to get to where she is. and that was her point. it would take a lot more than imus to surprise her at this late date. not so with kids who were simply having the time of their lives playing a game that they love.

― scott seward, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

the ultimate victim in all this: white males.

in fact, just check the headlines to get an idea what plenty of schmucks are talking about today.

― kingfish, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

does anyone under the age of 70 listen to paul harvey?

― rps, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:49 (eighteen years ago)

Don Imus could have saved himself a lot of trouble.

Instead of insulting the superstar black women's basketball players at Rutgers University, he should have told his listeners that white males are idiots who do nothing but drink beer, ogle women and scratch themselves. That way, rather than hearing himself rightly denounced for his rude, discriminatory remarks, he would have heard … nothing.

Radio talk-show host Don Imus appears on Rev. Al Sharpton's radio show in New York, in a file photo from April 9, 2007, where Imus apologized for insensitive remarks he made about the Rutgers women's basketball team. CBS Corp. announced Thursday that it would permanently cancel Imus's morning radio talk program. REUTERS/Chip East/Files (UNITED STATES)

Seriously, is there any group you can attack with more impunity than males --particularly white males?

Here's how I put it during a recent appearance on "The O'Reilly Factor":

"Our boys are being abused by the media in a different way ... All you have to do is turn on the TV for 30 minutes and tell me how men and dads are portrayed -- as ignorant and stupid and lazy. The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now."

Although my comments on the subject were brief, this simple observation about how badly today's males are treated garnered a huge reaction. E-mail poured in. Viewer after viewer thanked me for defending just about the only group it's "PC" to diss. (Another frequent target: conservative Christians.)

A typical reaction from one father was this: "Thank you for your courage. It touches my heart to hear someone speak on our behalf."

― river wolf, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:50 (eighteen years ago)

^^^^ holy fucking shit

― river wolf, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:51 (eighteen years ago)

The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.
The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.

― river wolf, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:51 (eighteen years ago)

that article makes me tired.

― kenan, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:52 (eighteen years ago)

Funny, I dont feel victimized at all.

― billstevejim, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:52 (eighteen years ago)

xpost I mean, it's the same shit, you know? The illusion of victimhood that's necessary to maintain the moral high ground when all other evidence points away from it.

― kenan, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:53 (eighteen years ago)

Funny, I dont feel victimized at all.

You're not a fundie or a conservative, obv.

― kenan, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:53 (eighteen years ago)

― billstevejim, Friday, 13 April 2007 17:57 (eighteen years ago)

I was taken aback but not outraged.

tracer this is key

― deej, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:00 (eighteen years ago)

gays are not discriminated against, MY GOD WE GIVE THEM JOINT HEALTH PLANS EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE SICK DOG FUCKERS

― kenan, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:00 (eighteen years ago)

Gays are discriminated against the most as of 2007, obviously. Racism will more than likely cease to exist in 50 years. Anyone who morphs the issues around their own personal agendas should blow their own brains out.

-- billstevejim, Friday, April 13, 2007 12:57 PM (2 minutes ago)

faleijfleijfliejflsiaefnuhe4wuytbfgalskjdnfvwerwfaesfgvw

― deej, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:00 (eighteen years ago)

Well in that guy's defense, I should probably admit that at the last Minorities Meeting, we saw some real progress in our teenaged white guy concentration camp program. We lured 30,000 of them to Nevada with a fake poker tournament and are holding them in an underground bunker.

― nabisco, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:03 (eighteen years ago)

Jesus Christ, there is no "who is discriminated agains the most?" competition (unless GSN is way more obscure/cutting edge than I think it is)!

― HI DERE, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:05 (eighteen years ago)

I used to be so good at fake poker

― TOMBOT, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:07 (eighteen years ago)

"Racism will more than likely cease to exist in 50 years."

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAa

― BLASTOCYST, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:07 (eighteen years ago)

YEAH RIGHT MORE LIKE NEGATIVE 50 YEARS

― deej, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:14 (eighteen years ago)

what with the civil rights movement eliminating racism for all time

― deej, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:14 (eighteen years ago)

The white, Anglo-Saxon male, the young teenage guy, is probably the most discriminated against kid on the face of the earth right now.

Yea seriously, when I go into the bodegas in my mostly black and hispanic neighborhood the arabic (qatar i think?) dudes are always watching me to make sure I'm not stealing 50 cent plantain chips.

― JW, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

If you have seen the PBS piece that Hagelin was referencing you would probably agree with her. I guess it's dated now -- and I really have no interest in keeping up with the slimy contemporary "anthropology" that Viacom swears by -- but the mook thing is just like any other demographic exploitation. The difference is that white teenage boys don't care, and no one has brainwashed them into thinking they're victims.

Jon I feel ur pain

― BLASTOCYST, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

Racism will always exist. Haven't you people seen Star Trek?

― BLASTOCYST, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:34 (eighteen years ago)

i remember the episode where kirk went on a date with some hot romulan chick and people acted all weird, hypocrisy exposed etc

― rps, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

That Hagelin article would be so much better if the headline was "BROMOPHOBIA".

― C0L1N B..., Friday, 13 April 2007 18:38 (eighteen years ago)

there's no excuse for her VERY misleading repetition of the cleaning lady story but i can see i am jumping on gwen a little too much now, sorry

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:39 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.moviegnome.com/Movie%20Images%20256x155/deadmenp.jpg

― Pleasant Plains, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:47 (eighteen years ago)

Good lord, that Hagelin article is some mind-burning stupid.

― J, Friday, 13 April 2007 18:47 (eighteen years ago)

Racism will more than likely cease to exist in 50 years.

--Quote by some dude, New England, 1865.

― call all destroyer, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:00 (eighteen years ago)

"this simple observation about how badly today's males are treated garnered a huge reaction. E-mail poured in. Viewer after viewer thanked me for defending just about the only group it's "PC" to diss."

― deeznuts, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:03 (eighteen years ago)

Another fucked-up thing about all this is NJ Governor Corzine getting in a car accident on the way to the meeting with the principles, one that put him in critical condition(dude's still on a ventilator, according to Air America newsreader).

― kingfish, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

i was sure that was gonna go the opposite direction, with her becoming the persecuted truth-crusader. this is just genuinely depressing.

xp

― deeznuts, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

don imus killed the governor of new jersey

― rps, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:05 (eighteen years ago)

o i see riverwolf kinda beat me to that one

― deeznuts, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:07 (eighteen years ago)

As proof that TV anchors pay zero attention to what they're reading (or misreading), I submit the local Fox station cutting into The Simpsons to report that one:

"Great news tonight ... New Jersey governor John Corzine has been hospitalized after a horrible car accident."

He didn't even notice.

― nabisco, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

I remember when the calls went out on the radio and all my white friends were hacked to death with machetes. DUDES I THOUGHT WE SAID NEVER AGAIN

And then I couldn't get into a decent college because of PC. And here in the corporate world, I look around and I SEE NOTHING BUT A SEA OF DARK SKIN

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:18 (eighteen years ago)

don imus killed the governor of new jersey

Is Corzine dead? I thought he was hospitalized but hadn't heard anything about his death.

― Nicole, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

hyperbole

― rps, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:26 (eighteen years ago)

he got fukked up pretty nasty,they said they couldnt find a rod big enuff for his longass femur bone crackle

― danbunny, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:31 (eighteen years ago)

How is whitey victimization any more depressing than nappy-headed ho victimization? Y'all are straight up deluded.

― BLASTOCYST, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

It is called a power structure.

― call all destroyer, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:42 (eighteen years ago)

By whitey victimization, you talking about Corzine?

― Pleasant Plains, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:43 (eighteen years ago)

Y'all, who?

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Friday, 13 April 2007 19:45 (eighteen years ago)

that worldnet daily article uses this pretty amusing phrase:

tentacles of radical feminist thought

:next level:

― deej, Friday, 13 April 2007 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

HAHA frontpage of WND has several bits about if we need to invest in fallout shelters again.

http://www.fanmadefallout.com/IMG/fobos/fboy1.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5b/Vault_of_the_Future.jpg

<i>WND POLL
Duck and cover
Is it time for America to re-institute its nuclear-shelter system?
--WND </i>

― kingfish, Friday, 13 April 2007 20:29 (eighteen years ago)

damn tags

― kingfish, Friday, 13 April 2007 20:29 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/specials/images/1057_RightToRefuge/4112740_e.jpg
WE ARE ALL WHITE ANGLO SAXON AMERICAN TEENAGERS!

http://www.beyondbooks.com/wcu91/images/00042980.jpg
OUR HEARTS GO OUT 2 U!

― Hurting 2, Friday, 13 April 2007 22:13 (eighteen years ago)

Pointing out that the rapper Mims uses "ho" and worse epithets in his chart-topping song "This Is Why I'm Hot," columnist Michelle Malkin asked: "What kind of relief do we get from this deadening, coarsening, dehumanizing barrage?"

― deej, Monday, 16 April 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

Michelle Malkin's eventual death?

― nabisco, Monday, 16 April 2007 17:19 (eighteen years ago)

It would be a dream.

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 16 April 2007 17:27 (eighteen years ago)

ned im doin my don imux tribute on free103point.org right now
toon it ion bro

― danbunny, Monday, 16 April 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

"deadening, coarsening, dehumanizing barrage" is not really a bad description of mims' delivery. guy's got flow like a cinderblock.

― tipsy mothra, Monday, 16 April 2007 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

Oh man, it gets even better. When you're still trying to hype your stupid published screed, be sure to tie in any pop event possible as proving your point.

Also write in such a way to include: Jeff Foxworthy, homosexuality as a disorder, the Duke lacrosse thing(blaming the professors, of course), Chris Rock, support of that Harvard prez who went on about how women weren't as smart as men, rightwing self-perceived victimhood, and lines like "Blacks enjoy the top position on the racial totem pole."

― kingfish, Monday, 16 April 2007 17:45 (eighteen years ago)

How often during the Imus brouhaha have you heard the words "free speech"? Hardly.

Did the First Amendment even come up? Nyet.

Ok, 1) it's come up A LOT, and 2) it's irrelevant.

― kenan, Monday, 16 April 2007 17:54 (eighteen years ago)

i know right? i love how everyone thinks this is censorship

― river wolf, Monday, 16 April 2007 17:55 (eighteen years ago)

If your mental framework allows for only simplistic causation and direct actions, you're not going be much for wondering about the context of such things.

― kingfish, Monday, 16 April 2007 17:57 (eighteen years ago)

one month passes...

I was wondering today what Michael Richards might be up to...any recent news?

― Joe, Thursday, 7 June 2007 20:10 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.allaahuakbar.net/image/christian_shias.jpg

― marmotwolof, Thursday, 7 June 2007 20:14 (eighteen years ago)

I love the guy with his hands behind his back. "Ho-hum"...

― Joe, Thursday, 7 June 2007 20:51 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.pajiba.com/images/richards.jpg

― kenan, Thursday, 7 June 2007 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

one month passes...

Hangin' around with Swami G.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 12 July 2007 06:16 (eighteen years ago)

"That night, when I was insulted and disrupted"

wtf Any middle school vice principal knows that "He Pushed Me First" is a lame-ass excuse. Fuck you, Mr. Richards. Some degreee of penitence is in order here, if not self-flagellation.

― kenan, Thursday, 12 July 2007 06:29 (eighteen years ago)

whose career nosedived

I guess it's all relative.

― marmotwolof, Thursday, 12 July 2007 06:30 (eighteen years ago)

it's incredible. HE STILL DOESN'T GET IT.

― kenan, Thursday, 12 July 2007 06:31 (eighteen years ago)

At this point he should just do a world tour of the act that made him infamous, and use this link for customized material.

― marmotwolof, Thursday, 12 July 2007 06:39 (eighteen years ago)

whose career nosedived

Uh yes, after Seinfeld.

― nathalie, Thursday, 12 July 2007 07:11 (eighteen years ago)

exactly

― marmotwolof, Thursday, 12 July 2007 07:13 (eighteen years ago)

eight months pass...

hahahahahahaha this thread

― HI DERE, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 03:29 (seventeen years ago)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QHcD1yydLgw

― bug, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 03:32 (seventeen years ago)

Here is the YSI for the (ridiculously out of print) Dick Davy record I mentioned upthread. It's all one file, about 40 minutes/38 minutes.

-- nate p. (natepatrin), Monday, November 20, 2006 10:54 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Link

repost plz

― deej, Tuesday, 18 March 2008 05:44 (seventeen years ago)

woooooooow 1622 posts

― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 18 March 2008 05:46 (seventeen years ago)

three months pass...

uh oh

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/06/23/PH2008062301824.jpg

― scott seward, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 02:07 (seventeen years ago)

you know what's funny? i was all like: where's that long-ass thread about don imus? but it wasn't about don imus at all. i forgot all about kramerface.

― scott seward, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 02:09 (seventeen years ago)

i'm white btw

― jeff, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 02:13 (seventeen years ago)

ANNOUNCER: Defensive back Adams "Pacman" Jones, recently signed by the Cowboys, here's a guy suspended all of 2007, following a shooting in a Vegas nightclub.

IMUS: Well, stuff happens. You're in a nightclub, for God's sake. What do you think is gonna happen in a nightclub. People are drinking, and doing drugs. There are women there and people have guns. So there, go ahead.

ANNOUNCER: Also, he's been arrested six times since being drafted by Tennessee in 2005.

IMUS: What color is he?

ANNOUNCER: He's African American.

IMUS: Ha ha, well there you go, now we know.

― Savannah Smiles, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 10:00 (seventeen years ago)

jokes bruv

― The stickman from the hilarious "xkcd" comics, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 10:02 (seventeen years ago)

this is the thread that sent us into the sandbox wilderness

― gr8080, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 10:41 (seventeen years ago)

I hate Imus, but totally think that he was aiming for "African-Americans get targeted by the police more often than whites" line.

― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 15:14 (seventeen years ago)

it's more confusing than anything else

― n/a, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 15:15 (seventeen years ago)

I hate Imus, but totally think that he was aiming for "African-Americans get targeted by the police more often than whites" line.

I think he probably was too, but he should have actually gotten around to saying so. Like, on the air.

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 15:16 (seventeen years ago)

yeah thats the crux of it - i think he was, but i also think he was aware that this was gonna be controversial

― deeznuts, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 15:17 (seventeen years ago)

I'm surprised people can stay awake long enough to hear anything Imus says.

― bnw, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 15:27 (seventeen years ago)

It was a bit too ambiguous, especially coming from a guy who's made racially stupid comments before.

― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 15:30 (seventeen years ago)

Ha ha, well there you go, now we know.

― jeff, Tuesday, 24 June 2008 17:47 (seventeen years ago)

one year passes...

Saw Michael Richards at Bergamot Station today. When a friend asked me what he was like, or how strangers act around him, I said it's like bumping into Cain from the Bible. It's very odd.

― Cunga, Sunday, 7 March 2010 07:47 (fifteen years ago)

wow major lols at the nude spock idiocy "omg cracker=just as offensive". can't believe i missed this the first time

― Ballistic, Sunday, 7 March 2010 08:56 (fifteen years ago)

(ok tying into weird white paranoia ade or nabisco - i get em confused - were mentioning above) there's this one highway exit near auburn alabama that pretty much from what i can tell all ga bulldogs fans are gonna hit anytime the auburn-ga game is there (context), one of the last exits before you're back in ga. i'm driving back thru alabama late one night and i stop at this exit for gas and to use the john and inside the restroom is just an insane amount of lengthy detailed like unabomber manifesto level stuff from different people or pens at least about how 1) blacks run alabama (different term than 'blacks' used obv) 2) blacks have it so easy in alabama and get away with stuff that liberals won't let whites get away 3) and this is why alabama isn't better off. it was damn near a detailed position paper on pro-segregation, anti-affirmative action, o if only whites had the same rights that blacks take for granted, and how come they get to use the n word btw. literally four walls covered with the stuff. and then, the saving grace that saved me from being merely repulsed/terrified by it and amplified how happy i was gonna be to be back in ga (where of course we don't have racism lol), written above this mess above the toilet oblivious of the surrounding white rage: "GO DAWGS!!!"

― j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, November 21, 2006 1:27 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― some dude, Sunday, 7 March 2010 11:57 (fifteen years ago)

haha

― T-R-A-P-S-T-R (Curt1s Stephens), Monday, 8 March 2010 04:08 (fifteen years ago)

cankles [.]

― velko, Monday, 8 March 2010 04:10 (fifteen years ago)

eleven years pass...

Gays are discriminated against the most as of 2007, obviously. Racism will more than likely cease to exist in 50 years. Anyone who morphs the issues around their own personal agendas should blow their own brains out.
― billstevejim, Friday, April 13, 2007 1:57 PM bookmarkflaglink

this hasn't aged particularly well

― Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 20:14 (four years ago)

I can understand why YouTube comments threads would have people arguing about this, since YouTube comments threads seem to be populated exclusively by repulsive morons; I'm having a little bit of trouble figuring out why ILX would have to argue anything out about this.
P.S. I am really sick of people who are all like "black people call each other nigger all the time" -- this is a severely fucked-up perception based on people getting their information on What Black People Do All the Time pretty much solely from hip-hop videos and The Wire and shit, and I seriously wonder if people who say that honestly believe that the middle-aged woman in the next cubicle at work seriously goes home to her kids and says "what's up, my niggas, we're having Applebee's tonight!"
― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, November 20, 2006 4:09 PM bookmarkflaglink

conversely, this has aged like fine wine

― Dana Jel Pey (DJP), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 20:22 (four years ago)

Quite the time capsule, this.

― pomenitul, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 20:23 (four years ago)

I sometimes think about this incident as something of a watershed moment, since it took place in 2006, right between the launches of YouTube and the iPhone. Only a few years earlier, and the video wouldn't have made its way to the Internet so quickly and been watched so easily.

I also remember my reaction on this thread, which I'm not proud of now. I was very bothered by the fact that people were so quick to call Richards a racist based entirely on the video. In my mind, it was an argument against essentialism (is he "really" a racist, or did he just do a racist thing?) -- but it ultimately amounted to a defense of Richards that I shouldn't have been so invested in, with the privilege of viewing such incidents from a purely academic perspective.

― jaymc, Wednesday, 7 April 2021 22:43 (four years ago)

i know no one knew what racism was in 2006 or whatever but fucking hell

Is your experience so limited that you've never seen non-racist people behave this way? I know a guy from Texas...he will say some of the most racial shit you ever heard right to a black man's face...He's a blues musician...that doesn't stop him from making chicken jokes...

― new display name (Left), Wednesday, 7 April 2021 23:07 (four years ago)

yeah, that was called out in 2006 and isn't really in the spirit of the revive

― microsloth fig stimulator (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 8 April 2021 04:11 (four years ago)

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