mark p's questions about moving to london: let him ask you them

xpost really? everyone is telling me to stay away from hackney.

Do you want good bars, pubs and restaurants within a stone's throw of your flat? Does it matter whether or not its on the Tube? Is the amount of green space nearby a concern? Are you particularly bothered about things like crime rates? Does it bother you if there's a bit of street noise late at night?

Seems a better bet to find out your own preferences rather than just rely on everyone to pimp their own area of London (which they will inevitably do). For example, there are many good things about Hackney but it's not great if you don't want to have to rely on getting buses to and from work.

and that sucks, poo (ha ha). the only occasional hassle i get walking around is from the odd bum just asking for change but they tend to stick to certain areas. have got used to them and you expect it in such places i guess.

fair questions, matt, although out of interest's sake i was partly just asking for people to pimp their favorite areas.

but anyway, yeah: ideally, i’d prefer to live somewhere a little tranquil and neighbourhoody and travel for my drunken scenestering/cavorting/drunken dilettantery. a nearby tube stop is not necessarily so long as everything (esp. work) is reasonably accessible by bus. green space is preferred. crime rates are also a reasonable concern, although i'm hardly prudish.

ideally what i'm looking for is something that combines all that with relative affordability. i don't even know if an area like that exists within my criteria set and price range, but i'd imagine if it does, it'd have to be something off the tube line, removed from central london and maybe in the midst of a bit of a reinvention.

all that said, if i can get substantially more for my money somewhere like hackney, that's certainly an option i'm willing to explore.

also things are better since they shut down the nightclub between the pond and the lea bridge rd roundabout. not that i ever heard or saw anything anyway.

Just don't leave this thread convinced that only the north or east are options - sometimes reading ILX you'd think you'd fall off the edge of the world if you went further west or south than Notting Hill Gate.

Only problem is it's not particularly cheap, but it's not v expensive either. It's about as expensive as some of the surrounding areas like Wood Green which are a lot less pleasant (although not as bad as some people say).

But I think these areas might be a little far out for you, and possibly pricey for a one bedroom place. Peckham Rye or East Dulwich might be better bets and are more accessible by bus - Tim H is your man to ask there.

West London fulfils a lot of your criteria but will be much more expensive due to being, well, West London. Acton isn't great though.

North of the river you're probably looking at Crouch End, possibly Muswell Hill. MAYBE Hampstead or Highgate if you can find a bargain.

In reality though, rent in London is expensive, it's worth shopping around. To be honest I've never looked for a one-bedroom place but I imagine if you're looking at £175 a week or under you might have to compromise on location a bit. Nowhere in London is that dangerous and places like Hackney are big and diverse boroughs that you can't really make sweeping statements about - the bit between Bethnal Green and Victoria Park might fit your preferences.

Looking back at that though I reckon Crouch End/Muswell Hill/Peckham Rye/East Dulwich might be your best bets. A longer journey by bus but not too far out and not too pricey.

investigate them. search about them, ask about them

you dont need to be hiding away in east dulwich!

and why, on a thread where we are talking about places that are handy for goodge st on a bus, are we talking about dulwich, acton and ealing?

if these places are so good, why do none of us live in them hardly? yea yea, 'acton is as good as hackney', so how come none of you live in acton? this is faintly ridiculuous.

I'm not saying Mark should move there. But I am saying it is no worse than many other places in London, north, east or south. That is the nature of this city imo.

The main reason I do not live in Acton is because I work in Old Street, and yes there is more 'social action' east of the West End for PeopleLikeUs generally - that's just the way the cultural land lies.

the solution was closing down the sub-post offices (which in the end they would have done anyway, though that's no comfort to to the victims)

i live 50 yards from lcr and have since 1990 -- this is just NOT a scary place to be 99% of the time

Well, none of us do, but thousands of people do and a generous proportion of those manage to get into town every day. None of us live there mostly due to economic factors, pubs etc nearby, the way in which we choose to commute into work, the sort of area we care about living in or otherwise. It depends on what you're looking for, that's why I asked those questions up thread.

The majority of people here live in Hackney or near Holloway Road and Mark has hinted they're unlikely to be his thing. He said he doesn't necessarily mind travelling further, so I suggested places a bit further afield.

To be honest I largely ignored the 'Goodge Street on the bus thing', mostly because Tottenham Court Road/Centre Point are easy and straighforward to get to from pretty much anywhere in London. Tim seems to manage the East Dulwich journey into Central London every day.

Acton isn't very nice or interesting, at least the bits I've seen, but its not actually a difficult journey into Goodge Street at all. Straight up the Central Line into Tottenham Court Road then 5mins walk. It's no harder or remote a journey than it is from, say, Dalston (which is harder to get in and out of than some people are willing to admit).

The thing I've found, coming from New York, about London flats, is that they are easy to get. But they are expensive. New York apartments you feel like you're clamoring for space with 30 gold prospectors anxious to strike some undiscovered seam.

In terms of investigating areas - how long do you have before arriving in London and having to find a place? If you have a couple of weeks it should be fine - buy Loot every day, check the websites linked to upthread, go round every letting agent in the area and you should be fine. Also try and get a feel for the average rent in various places before you arrive, moveflat.com etc are good places to start there.

I took the 254 home today, from Euston up to Hackney Central and gosh - that took awhile! I may take the Hole Train next time.

it's a great journey in the daytime if you're not in any great hurry. if i'm at Euston in the evening heading home i usually jump on a 73 to Angel or corner of Essex Rd and Balls Pond Rd and change for 56 or 38 there (in your case replace 56 with 30).

good luck!

I must do the Hackney/Stoke Newington secondhand shop circuit one of these weekends since I expect from the demographic that you're likely to find far more interesting things there than the standard No Parlez/Green Man menu.

Dalston is the 2nd scariest place in London I've been. The scariest is that place Alix and Starry used to live in near Loughborough Junction. Still makes me shiver.

what should I do today? done with museums, can't get a bike it seems, sorta poor, like food, would like to be actively engaged, but could just as easily sit somewhere and people watch. suggestions?

i am in w2

it was fun!

So if you're going to Goodge Street, go a bit further out to somewhere which has direct peak time trains from/to Charing Cross else it will make you scream. I've been travelling through London Bridge for over three years now and it's doing it in my head, as Alex Sibley would say.

AND the east london line is suspending come Dec 07. Think I'll be moving out of new cross next time lease is due up - there's bvgger all there anyway unless yr at art skoool.

i bought some "all-purporse spray" there: it claimed to be good for EVERYTHING -- but it smelled so sweet and sickly i hardly ever used it, so the claim was never properly tested

I've long since given up bigging up South London because of one main reason - people's ridiculous prejudices against it keeps the housing prices down in an affordable, green and well connected part of London.

There are some bad bits (yes, Loughborough Junction, though even that is being tarted up) but they are easily avoidable.

For a more picturesque variant, try Cricklewood to Herne Hill.

I wouldn't recommend Mark moving to New Cross. Actually, I wouldn't recommend anyone moving to New Cross.

Another place to bear in mind is that bit up between Archway and Highgate, which is a quick trip down the Northern Line to Goodge Street.

(I'm inclined to agree with Mark C about the bus thing - it's better to be on a decent tube line than a decent bus route).

Possibly because you still get people thinking of it as super-dangerous and grim compared to other places around the city (see this thread as example). Which even if true statistically negates the virtues (which have been much discussed on ILX but this didn't stop Hackney topping dubious 'worst place to live' survey a last year).

Which is where I live! Albeit, to the side a little which means I have KICK-ASS views of London. 7min walk to Archway. Buses 43 and 134 be handy, plus more at Archway itself. I've lived in the area for 4 years and love it. And it's totally possible to get a flat for what you're asking around here (and indeed Muswell Hill and Crouch End), just don't limit yourself to the local real estate agents. Hit Loot, the Yellow Pages etc. More bargains to be had this way.

(I'm inclined to agree with Mark C about the bus thing - it's better to be on a decent tube line than a decent bus route)

Best of all is a mainline train route, though - people don't tend to think about this but it's gold.

In fact, once I started taking overground trains, I find it quite difficult to get back on a tube. So dirty, so cramped, so horrible. Give me a nice overground, like there is all over South London, any day. Streatham has 3 stations, and at least 4 different routes into Central London.

x-post to Mark C's observation.

Archway / Tufnell park will give you the choice of 390 / 134 buses, which will take about 45 mins to Goodge Street, plus tube choice if running late. Its my area too so plenty of pubs, good food grn spaces.

Its raining now, I don't advise doing anything outdoorsy. Even if I get my norths and souths mixed up.

I'd say its better to be on a tube than a mainline trainline spainline. Unless you are by a terminus.

regeneration process continues unabaited. it's quite nice living somewhere where you can sense the transience and progression on a weekly basis. (criminally) derelict and disused buildings are everywhere here but never too far from newness at the same time.

I don't actually find any of Hackney that intimidating, except the really grim part along Hackney Road just past Shoreditch. Dalston when you get off the beaten track is all really nice houses in some directions, but that's London for you. There are MUCH scarier places (any suburban enormo-estate in Kidbrooke or White City or wherever for a start).

I commute from Barnes to Waterloo on SWT every day and it's fab - 20 minute journey, trains every 10 minutes or so, and although they're occasionally late there's at least a display that tells you. I always get a seat there and back, and I get to do my reading for work/pleasure in relative comfort.

WAHT

I have tried pretty much all the travel combinations - you can reduce it to two changes if you change at LB to the northern line, go to Euston and walk, OR you get the ELL up to Whitechapel and then the H&C round to Euston Sq and walk. But that, whilst not being an annoying journey, does drag on. And the H&C can get fairly unpleasant when it EVER TURNS UP.

There are bus links too - you just have to accept it will be a long and unscenic trudge down Old kent/Walworth Road - but as far as getting to Goodge St is concerned yr choices are either to go to Oxford St and walk down or to Holborn and walk up. However I don't take the bus for these journeys at peak time as they are a) bad for the soul and b) I get overheadachey. Not so bad if you can read on buses though, but it makes me vom (which is why I don't think I'd consider moving to Hackney, although I do like it when I'm there)!

I thought if any ILX-ors fancy a pint on Monday or Tuesday night and would feel like giving their spin on London's matters for me, well I would really appreciate it & it would be awesome.
right now I don't remember the various ILXors' whereabouts, but I would be glad to have a banter e.g. with Marcello (tags: Blemish, Aerial, Drift) and Kate (music-making in life).

as for me, I'm a forever-budding musician in a translator's clothing (translated Nick Drake's songs into singable Italian for my thesis and hope to get it published soon), and my enduring personal sanctities are (in chronological-epiphany order): Duran Duran, David Sylvian, Kate Bush and the Penguin Cafe Orchestra.

oh, and one more question: what club was Moloko's "Familiar Feeling" video filmed at? 'cause I really want to go dancing there.

(Whenever he reads this thread again -- I'll be visiting London for a week in early March, and it would be cool to meet!)

everywhere i go, i see the ghost of my future salary

also my neighbour has lots of rubbish currently stacked against the ladder which i want him to move but he is old and frail and so am i these days

1. russell brand is horrible
2. fuck a letting agent

would have been better

2 xposts

YES

i lived there for 18mths, halfway between bethnal green road and whitechapel road. it is a wicked place to be. easy and fast to get to other places, you've got victoria park and a couple of smaller parks within meandering distance, spitting distance from brick lane and nummy curries, the markets on bethnal green rd/roman rd are cool. not many great pubs, the approach is nice but pricey. the area always felt friendly to me.

mark p you need an official welcoming FAP

i happened by the intrepid fox the other night and felt very... canadian

charlton i just sort of went by it, but still

It's dark, dank and delicious but enough about my musty personality. It's also a great place to pick up, not that many men could pick me up"

have fun in LDN mark!

hackney was... confusing. only because the areas that people keep telling me i'd like (ie. the bits near mare street between victoria park and london fields) i didn't like so much, and the bits that people told me to stay away from (ie. the half-rhombus inside mare and morning lane/well street) were the bits that i didn't mind. maybe i should face up to the sad fact i require a bit of gentrification at this point in time?

does tracer live in the rhombus?

I don't know this rhombus of which you speak.

mark do you want an apartment (new/modern?) or would you prefer the floor of a house (with other people above or below)?

the half-rhombus is where tracer lives -- ethan and minna lived actually on wells street i think -- farrell lives the other side of london fields

i live just off clapton square; so does (did?) stelfox; stevem and lixi live further up clapton road -- this is a little further north than where you are (and increasingly far from the tube)

emsk i can't remember since she moved

xpost i'm in clapton square right now

Also, buy Loot, check up a few places, one-bedroom or otherwise. Then just wander round the immediate area and see how you feel.

aye, i think that's what i'm gonna do. my dream of paying through the nose for a 10x12 bedsit is officially dead (more hauntology)

thanks matt

Mark (p) I've a room going, and I'll be in later, mail this address if you'll be around in an hour or two.

i'd go with houseshares as well. try http://www.moveflat.co.uk

esp.BLURTON road (but only for the name which for some reason always amuses me)

i shall return with a whole new batch of endearingly naive assessments

sounds like emsk is in lower clapton really, just like we.

you're right; i don't know where i live. it's closer to homerton high st than any other high street-type street which in my head means homerton, but it's e5 which in my head means clapton (homerton being e9 imh).

(this happened once to me and t4litha anyway)

streetmap is my authoritah

i didn't realise you lived that near me tho

xpost mark that is heresy

(i'm surprised too.)

u should be fine on the silverlink tho it will be packed and often does stop between dalston and canonbury for a minute or two.

xpost thanks tom

You could walk, it's only a couple of miles!

The silverlink can be unreliable, though I've heard it's better than it used to be. I love the route it takes, though, it feels like it goes past the back garden of everything (not just jel's old place in Acton!), so you see backs of houses, old painted advertisements that haven't been rained away, everything from this different angle that feels private and familiar, like you've been let into a secret.

And, yes, welcome!

silverlink isnt great really, but it shouldnt be too bad for just 2 stops. its only every 20 minutes though, and as sid said earlier, its often very packed

you could always get the 30 bus to h&i, (or the less frequent 277). the 30 will also carry on to your workplace i think, might be worth trying that out also

You can on some (e.g. Walthamstow Central to Liverpool Street), but not on others.

"samurai sushi and bento" = how the fuck are places like this busy

(i am already so food-starved here at goodge street that this is what i've resorted to -- never again!)

how far along goodge street are you?

right across from the station, basically, just off tcr.

Head down to Polo, a Korean just behind centrepoint, it is good and cheap.

"samurai sushi and bento" = how the fuck are places like this busy

Japanese Cafe on High Holborn = the most repulsive meal I have ever paid for. TBH I don't know quite what I was expecting.

thanks ed. one cannot live on EAT alone.

yeah i just choked back a small tin of the most repulsively overcooked and gristly chicken katsu and repulsively undercooked, sweetly, doughy soba noodles. which is fine, you know, newsflash: not all takeout is amazing, etc -- but what i don't understand is how this fucking place is RAMMED day-in and day-out

vote with your £££ people!

fuck a pret

i was anti-pret for a while, but now i can't front on their hot wraps, especially the fajita one. good for hangovers.

you can't find places to eat around goodge st? ur menk, or walking around with eyes closed - there are tons of places on goodge st and charlotte st and generally around, tucked in corners...

My office is moving back to the area and I can't wait, food is so much better round there than in kings cross.

emsk not reasonable takeaway that doesn't require me to stand there waiting for 20 minutes beforehand, no! trust me, we've exhausted the places tucked into corners, etc, already. there are about 5-6 decent regular options and some others that are good for occasional one-offs, but that's about it really.

Has anyone tried the Filipino place on Charlotte Street?

I have to recommend the tiny Italian place on the pedestrianised street just opposite Goodge Place - a good escalope is hard to find. Also Navarro's, the good tapas place on Charlotte Street.

good places:

Hi Sushi on Frith St.

Bi Won on Coptic St (i think)

suzy, that escalope place is called the bay leaf, and it's GOOD. i go there at least once a week.

there's another great tapas bar around here called the salt yard, but it's more of a sit-in kind of place.

recommendations for eateries around aldwych appreciated : )

ok, opff the top of me head -
i got takeaway from thai metro last monday, i waited for approx 4 minutes
also the coffee/pizza place on the corner, you will wait for less than 10 minutes
also a bit further west along goodge st, a little middle-eastern place on north side of street, you tell them what you want and they put it in a box so you don't wait at all

also how come 5-6 regular options isn't enough, are you getting takeaway like every single day or something?

Bay Leaf just has the perfect 'we are Italian and know what we are doing' smell. The corner pizza place will never tempt me, for the opposite reason. Salt Yard is a bit meh compared to Navarro's, actually. Anna and I tried the little Brazilian caff right by the Charlotte Goodge junction, which was quick and nice too.

You need to investigate the dosas at Ragam on Cleveland Street, where there are also quite a few other nice places to eat.

By the Bloomsbury branch of Busaba Eathai there is a great cafe which used to be Siddoli's Buttery and it is still good for comfort food with gravies, as are the others on Rathbone Place.

That cafe is gone now, being redevloped into whoknowswhat

Costabucks

knobs

Which cafe? The Brazilian or ex-Siddoli's? AND WHY IS IT NEVER CORNER PIZZA HELL?

ex-siddolis

it is never corner pizza hell because they make a cheap half decent pizza.