New England Squad

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discuss the England Squad:

Goalkeepers: Paul Robinson (Tottenham Hotspur), Chris Kirkland (Wigan Athletic), Ben Foster (Manchester United, on loan to Watford)

Defenders: Wayne Bridge (Chelsea), John Terry (Chelsea), Jamie Carragher (Liverpool), Micah Richards (Manchester City), Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United), Gary Neville (Manchester United), Michael Dawson (Tottenham Hotspur), Phil Neville (Everton), Jonathan Woodgate (Middlesbrough)

Midfielders: Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Shaun Wright-Phillips (Chelsea), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Michael Carrick (Manchester United), Stewart Downing (Middlesbrough), Scott Parker (Newcastle United), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham Hotspur), Aaron Lennon (Tottenham Hotspur), Owen Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), Gareth Barry (Aston Villa), Kieron Dyer (Newcastle United), Joey Barton (Manchester City)

Forwards: Andy Johnson (Everton), Peter Crouch (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham Hotspur).

Source: Reuters: http://tinyurl.com/2wralk

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:22 (eighteen years ago)

McClaren hasn't visited Fratton Park this season.

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:23 (eighteen years ago)

Those are England's best goalkeepers are they? Did anyone see Kirkland's performance in the last Wigan game?

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:24 (eighteen years ago)

so, contrary to rumour, barton *is* in the squad

― Friendly Tree (688), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:25 (eighteen years ago)

Gareth Barry (Aston Villa)..returns to the England Squad for the first time since 2002?

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:26 (eighteen years ago)

still no room for david bentley though

― Friendly Tree (688), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:26 (eighteen years ago)

Kevin Nolan still waiting for a call up

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:27 (eighteen years ago)

nolan hasn't had that great a season though really, even as bolton have done well, so he will have dropped a little in the reckoning, and it requires quite a push to get into the side (you'd think ousting jenas would be easier than it is!)

― Friendly Tree (688), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:32 (eighteen years ago)

Kevin Nolan still not actually that good.

Well done McClaren for picking Gareth Barry just as his form begins to dip, but Kieron Dyer deserves his place the way he's been playing recently.

That list of forwards is a bit depressingly threadbare. You get the feeling they're not so much the best four English strikers as the only four McClaren could think of.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:33 (eighteen years ago)

Walcott?

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:34 (eighteen years ago)

LOL.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:34 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, that one always cheers me up

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:35 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.revolutionsoccer.net/team/

― to scour or to pop? (Haberdager), Friday, 2 February 2007 16:39 (eighteen years ago)

team:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/6330177.stm

England: Foster (Watford); Gary Neville (Man Utd), Phil Neville (Everton), Rio Ferdinand (Man Utd), Woodgate (Middlesbrough); Gerrard (Liverpool, capt), Carrick (Man Utd), Wright-Phillips (Chelsea), Lampard (Chelsea), Dyer (Newcastle); Crouch (Liverpool).

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:41 (eighteen years ago)

4-5-1?

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:12 (eighteen years ago)

Interesting that Lennon was initially selected. He's looked quite promising recently.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:18 (eighteen years ago)

I'm hoping that by not watching this game live it'll be an interesting friendly for once. I predict a 2-2 draw.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:21 (eighteen years ago)

I predict a choke festival as England and Spain vie to prove who is the most overrated team.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:28 (eighteen years ago)

You know, I thought most people watching England had realised as long ago as last summer that playing Crouch on his own upfront or at the tip of a 4-3-3 doesn't actually work but whatever.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:31 (eighteen years ago)

Oh dear.

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:33 (eighteen years ago)

Matt OTM. He can hold for another striker but this will leave England frustrated and in the end with Gerrard and Lampard, and, who knows, SWP firing thirty yard + shots toward goal

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:34 (eighteen years ago)

apparently it's 4-3-3 not 4-5-1

with

dyer Wide attacking Left
SWP Wide attacking Right

― DJ Martian (djmartian), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:39 (eighteen years ago)

I like SWP on the right but I'm not even a fan of Dyer's so, meh.

Otoh, considering the hesitant, almost fearful way England played last summer, a dynamic, attacking formation could be ~~just what they need to try~~ a total disaster.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

Flip Neville at l/b then?

Poor Lee Naylor has no chance if he can't get in the squad with A Cole and Bridge out.

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:46 (eighteen years ago)

More to the point, poor Matty Taylor ;)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:47 (eighteen years ago)

Unless he's injured or something. I don't know. Like Steve McClaren I haven't been watching Pompey this season.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:47 (eighteen years ago)

Dyer's been playing very well for Newcastle recently, getting regular goals as well. This could be interesting. I'd rather see Jermain Defoe get a full 90mins for England though.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:49 (eighteen years ago)

what is this "pom-pie" of which you speak?

on readin the squad my eyes saw swp, but my brane read lennon, is poor little aaron injured then?

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:51 (eighteen years ago)

I'd at least like to see Jermain get the chance to bite someone or something. At least a nibble!

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

I always get excited about friendlies without thinking, it is only when the time comes I remember what they're always like.

― Suedey (John Cei Douglas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.nerevs.com/images/team.jpg

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:02 (eighteen years ago)

Taylor or Bridge should be playing. Fuck a Phil Neville.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

Booooooooooo!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/6338381.stm

"The court found that the Spanish Committee for Sporting Discipline had incorrectly evaluated the evidence," said a Spanish FA (RFEF) statement.

"We now hope that all measures will be taken to clear the good name of the national coach and the RFEF disciplinary committees."

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 14:47 (eighteen years ago)

I didn't know M.White followed English football! Excellent.

My worries for tonight lie mostly on the shoulders of Ben Foster, who I believe will be somewhat nervous and consequently exposed. He's pulled off good saves but made plenty of mistakes at club level this season, and his handling of crosses is dubious.

Phil Neville is being played out of position, which is a shame, because I'd rate him as almost Carrick's equal in the defensive midfield position. Such an argument is academic however because Scott Parker should be streets ahead of both. Neville jr. will do a good job at left-back, I predict, although he might not get forwards as much as is necessary. Gareth Barry should have started ahead of SW-P and played on the left, with Gerrard on the right and Dyer supporting Crouch.

Other than all that the team seems pretty solid.

― to scour or to pop? (Haberdager), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 14:55 (eighteen years ago)

i didn't realise that all these games last night were actually taking place in England (i assumed so for Australia but wtf Greece vs SK?)

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 14:57 (eighteen years ago)

New England by billy bragg was on the radio the other morning...

the ghana/nigeria match was chaos according to the graun, pitch invasions, all sorts...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:17 (eighteen years ago)

Ben Foster, who I believe will be somewhat nervous and consequently exposed. He's pulled off good saves but made plenty of mistakes at club level this season, and his handling of crosses is dubious.

paul robinson, hello?

i wz all for scotty parker once, but now i kinda think he might always just be a superior league clogger. (granted you could play him up front and pretend he's michael owen, or is that just me.) agree with everyone who'd rather see gazza bazza at left back. but phil neville is a small mercy - i wz half fearing nicky butt wz gonna win a recall! brr.

― tsk. (mwah), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:22 (eighteen years ago)

vassell recall soon plz lol

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:23 (eighteen years ago)

David James should be first-choice, he's been awesome this season. Either him or our very own (for a short while at least) Scotty Carson.

WARE IS MICHAEL RICKETTS WEN WE NEEDZ HIM

― to scour or to pop? (Haberdager), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:25 (eighteen years ago)

vassell NO

i'd like to see bentley given a shout. maybe after he moves club in the summer

― Friendly Tree (688), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

vassell's club form now is pretty much the same as it was when he was knocking them in for england. no this is not specious reasoning.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:28 (eighteen years ago)

28 February, 2001

england 3 - 0 spain

barmby, heskey, ehiogu

BRING BACK THE GOOD TIMES

― tsk. (mwah), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:36 (eighteen years ago)

...bring back barmby, heskey and ehiogu.

― to scour or to pop? (Haberdager), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:37 (eighteen years ago)

i remember that day well. i'd spent all day at work with this french dude on work experience ribbing us about how bad England were and how they were going to get beaten. weirdly i never actually spoke to the guy face to face, we just argued about England for a couple of weeks.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:37 (eighteen years ago)

via email

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:37 (eighteen years ago)

he was in a different office

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

I remember that game as being 4-0. Did we beat Spain 4-0 in the recent past as well?

― to scour or to pop? (Haberdager), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

upstairs from mine

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

no louis

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

Hmm. Maybe Scholes hit the woodwork near the end from long-range and I counted it as a goal. Or something.

― to scour or to pop? (Haberdager), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

Neville was subbed for Neville in that game :)

Not many survivors:

England: James (Martyn ,45 ) ,Neville (Neville ,78 ) ,Ferdinand (Ball ,45 ) ,Powell (Ehiogu ,45 ) ,Campbell ,Beckham (Heskey ,46 ) ,Butt (Lampard ,46 ) ,Scholes (McCann ,47 ) ,Cole ,Owen ,Barmby

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:45 (eighteen years ago)

McCann?! fucking hell

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:47 (eighteen years ago)

where was Lee Hendrie?

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:47 (eighteen years ago)

CHRIS POWELL WE LOVE YOU

― to scour or to pop? (Haberdager), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:47 (eighteen years ago)

so..... who will brady be throwing to next year?

― chicago kevin (chicago kevin), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:47 (eighteen years ago)

http://football.guardian.co.uk/fiver/

And, according to popular gossip website Popb1tch, Frank Lampard refused to eat at the same table as Joey Barton this morning. As Lampard lumbered off Barton is said to have shouted: "Don't worry, I wasn't going to nick your breakfast you fat pr1ck."

plz to be true!

― tsk. (mwah), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 19:05 (eighteen years ago)

Joey Barton is my new god.

I like how Rangers have had the two really crap defenders out of that 2001 England line-up (especially that they've only just signed Ugo Ehiogu in the last month, some years after his dubious "best", and that Michael Ball came up here, got injured, hit someone over the head with a chair, was shite, left again)

You really want Lee Naylor in at left back, dudes.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

I like how Rangers have had the two really crap defenders out of that 2001 England line-up

Hey, they've got one really crap one out of the 2001 Scotland line-up as well.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 20:20 (eighteen years ago)

speaking of lampard: apparently he's been linked with a move to the Chicago Fire???

― grbchv! (skowly), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 20:22 (eighteen years ago)

blimey this is a dull match...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 20:40 (eighteen years ago)

BORING BORING ENGLAND!

Defoe should have started this game with Crouch in a straight 4-4-2. No one looks particularly comfortable, or indeed arsed, here.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 20:52 (eighteen years ago)

so a typical England friendly then?

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 21:12 (eighteen years ago)

Worst game ever. Still, could be worse, you could be Irish.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 21:52 (eighteen years ago)

gawd i didn't think england would actually lose. fucking ridiculous. i can sort of them see beating israel via some bizarre twist or rooney magic but it's more likely that they'll really stuggle there too.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 21:55 (eighteen years ago)

What the fuck was that?

― DavidM* (unreal), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 21:57 (eighteen years ago)

(oh, Ireland got a v v v late winner. For Ireland)

Lolz at speculation whether Fat Frank would shake hands with Joey Barton at substitution time.

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 21:57 (eighteen years ago)

(it'd have been better if Frank had stayed on and they'd speculated as to whether he'd pass the ball to him or whether it'd be like when you fell out with some kid at school and wouldn't set him up for goals out of spite)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 21:58 (eighteen years ago)

i don't think i've ever seen MOTD end before where they don't even show the credits because there are no good highlights to show as they roll. remarkable.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 22:00 (eighteen years ago)

to show as they lol you mean

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 22:02 (eighteen years ago)

So, McLaren said before the match he would make England exciting then.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 22:05 (eighteen years ago)

bring back becks

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 22:12 (eighteen years ago)

My housemate's sister was at the game. As her first football match ever. And probably last.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 22:17 (eighteen years ago)

Incidentally everyone's talking about the Israel game but I think the real turning point is when England get effectively dumped out of the qualifiers by Guus Hiddink and Russia.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 22:19 (eighteen years ago)

(I sort of want that to happen, perversely)

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 22:20 (eighteen years ago)

mind you this result means i am salivating at prospect of imminent martian tirade. bring it!

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 22:22 (eighteen years ago)

This was ridiculous, McClaren must go, albeit he will not. But also ridiculous to think Beckham would save England. From the bench? Or from LA?

― zeus (zeus), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 22:42 (eighteen years ago)

Lovely goal by Iniesta.

I've never cared less about England; the last time I was really upset by an England defeat was...probably Tardelli's late winner in the 1980 European Championships but I think the advent of the McLaren era represents a new low in my interest. I did get caught up in Euro2004 fever a little but that's because there was an Everton striker in the squad. Dead now, of course. Thesedays I check the squad to see if a Blue has sneaked in and then hope they don't play and risk injury.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 22:53 (eighteen years ago)

i miss Boyler. perhaps he really has become German (lucky schwein).

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 22:59 (eighteen years ago)

At this point I will formally inaugurate the doomed ILx COPPELL FOR ENGLAND MANAGER campaign.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 23:06 (eighteen years ago)

WARNOCK

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 23:07 (eighteen years ago)

'ARRY REDKNAPP

(who I swear I saw sitting in a park bench in southern Spain a couple of weeks ago)

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 23:18 (eighteen years ago)

Soon to be looking for a new job...

http://england.worldcupblog.org/upload/_Butcher.jpg

― ailsa (ailsa), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 23:20 (eighteen years ago)

BIG SAM!

― zeus (zeus), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 23:24 (eighteen years ago)

BARRY FRY!

― Matt #2 (Matt #2), Thursday, 8 February 2007 02:15 (eighteen years ago)

bah, DJ Martian hasn't posted yet.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy (Kerr), Thursday, 8 February 2007 02:37 (eighteen years ago)

DJ MARTIAN FOR ENGLAND!

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:05 (eighteen years ago)

Good, level-headed stuff from the superior James Hamilton. Particularly like his smackdown of professional knobhead Joey 'ME SO PUNK' Barton.

www.morethanmindgames.co.uk

― Pete W (peterw), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:17 (eighteen years ago)

I'm backing Jerry's Call For Coppell. I might get a badge made.

(SC represents the England team of my youth so I might get a bit more into it then. Currie! Brooking! Latchford! McDermott! Keegan? Oh dear).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:18 (eighteen years ago)

At this point I will formally inaugurate the doomed ILx COPPELL FOR ENGLAND MANAGER campaign.

Old Mother Hubbard might be more apt.

― Tom D. (Dada), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:18 (eighteen years ago)

I liked how Linekar, Hansen and Shearer tiptoed around the whole "SWP was fucking rotten" issue - saying things like "if he'd been playing every week he'd have skinned that full back" while omitting to say "if he's that bad it's no wonder he isn't playing every week and why the fuck is he playing for England?" If Wrighty wasn't their pal (and sitting in the same room) they'd have torn SWP apart.

Phil Neville was mince, though not helped by playing in yet another England team with no left midfield for most of the game. Ailsa OTM re Naylor - an orthodox left footed left back who can run and cross and pass and tackle.

I would have said Woodgate had a great game until he was turned inside out at the goal.

Crouch needs to learn that at 12 foot 3 he has no need to keep holding defenders down to win headers.

England are as dull as their manager. I still think they'll qualify out of their group all the same.

― case of the mutual heart friendship (onimo), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:19 (eighteen years ago)

I still think they'll qualify out of their group all the same.

It's a piss easy joke of a group, so they certainly should!

― Tom D. (Dada), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:21 (eighteen years ago)

'I liked how Linekar, Hansen and Shearer tiptoed around the whole "SWP was fucking rotten" issue - saying things like "if he'd been playing every week he'd have skinned that full back" while omitting to say "if he's that bad it's no wonder he isn't playing every week and why the fuck is he playing for England?"'

OTFM!

― Pete W (peterw), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:27 (eighteen years ago)

Quite a lot of that England team aren't playing every week for the club sides.

― Tom D. (Dada), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:28 (eighteen years ago)

... all of the forwards f'rinstance

― Tom D. (Dada), Thursday, 8 February 2007 10:28 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah that is the scariest thing.

It's a piss easy joke of a group, so they certainly should!

I'd rather England were in a hard bastard group and it seems as usual as if the players do too.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:08 (eighteen years ago)

boyler's in australia, by the way, not germany (at least that's what he told us...).

i fully support this MARTIAN FOR ENGLAND plan.

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:13 (eighteen years ago)

i forgot re Boyler Down Under

― vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 8 February 2007 11:13 (eighteen years ago)

I are back in 10 days from down under, and will tell some goss about why MON didn't get the job...

― Dave B (daveb), Thursday, 8 February 2007 12:37 (eighteen years ago)

This was ridiculous, McClaren must go, albeit he will not. But also ridiculous to think Beckham would save England. From the bench? Or from LA?

becks be manager innit.

― ken c (ken c), Thursday, 8 February 2007 12:51 (eighteen years ago)

will tell some goss about why MON didn't get the job

Cool - go for it.

― === temporary username === (Mark C), Thursday, 8 February 2007 12:58 (eighteen years ago)

... traces of Semtex on his CV?

― Tom D. (Dada), Thursday, 8 February 2007 12:59 (eighteen years ago)

His CV begins "Hmmmm....what shall I say?"

― vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 8 February 2007 13:01 (eighteen years ago)

dave, you've already told me that story. also are you some sort of candyman? ;)

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Thursday, 8 February 2007 13:13 (eighteen years ago)

http://england.worldcupblog.org/upload/_Butcher.jpg
http://www.tdubel.com/skinit/kuvat/evox/evil_dead.jpg
"The Ultimate in Gruelling Terror!"

― Johnney B English (stigoftdump), Thursday, 8 February 2007 18:31 (eighteen years ago)

You tell us, Carsmile. Go on.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 9 February 2007 08:33 (eighteen years ago)

As thoughtful and possibly successful an England manager Steve Coppell might make, we know we'd never see him take the role if offered; poor Stevie C could've even hack the pressure at Maine Road. Perhaps he could just pull the strings behind the scenes and let some lesser fool be the media potato.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 9 February 2007 09:56 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not sure how a group with Croatia and Russia in it qualifies as piss easy.

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 9 February 2007 10:04 (eighteen years ago)

Russia have been crap for years. Tell you what tho, how about we swap you Scotland's group with World Cup winners, Italy; World Cup runners-up, France; World Cup quarter-finalists, Ukraine...

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 10:13 (eighteen years ago)

England would play much better against those teams tho, altho Croatia and Israel are better than Ukraine imo.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 10:59 (eighteen years ago)

Israel aren't better than Ukraine

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:00 (eighteen years ago)

Ukraine are shit, they didn't even deserve to beat Scotland at home. They didn't score a goal beyond the group stage of the World Cup (yeh i know England only scored one) and duly exposed by Italy after scraping through the worst penalty shoot out ever. Strange turnaround because they qualified for the WC in some style.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:04 (eighteen years ago)

England would not qualify from Scotland's group, of this there is no doubt. Scotland won't qualify from their group. Scotland probably wouldn't qualify from England's group. England will probably scrape through again.

― Sir Tehrance HoBB (the pirate king), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:07 (eighteen years ago)

England will qualify. Scotland won't.

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:07 (eighteen years ago)

England would not qualify from Scotland's group, of this there is no doubt.

Italy have been as poor as England under Donadoni, why such faith in them in comparison?

Thought it was funny that Mclaren said England lacked the quality on Wednesday night. I thought the quality was supposed to be the one thing they did have (usual examples) and it was the whole poor team structure and complacency/tiredness that was the problem as ever (did Spain have a midwinter break?)

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:10 (eighteen years ago)

Italy have been as poor as England under Donadoni, why such faith in them in comparison?

Because they are a better team with better players perhaps?

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:12 (eighteen years ago)

Not based on the last 6 matches.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:12 (eighteen years ago)

They have quite a lengthy Christmas break, yes, Steve. No waddling around full of "too much turkey" in Spain.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:13 (eighteen years ago)

As opposed to England's fine record in their last 6 matches you mean? (xp)

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:13 (eighteen years ago)

regardless of goals scored at this stage, both of have w1 d1 l1 in the qualifiers. and i don't think italy have been playing any better than england in them.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:17 (eighteen years ago)

w2 i mean

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:17 (eighteen years ago)

Playing worse than England have played against Macedonia, Croatia and Spain? They must be shite!

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:18 (eighteen years ago)

i can't even tell if england are actually playing any worse than they were when they were winning games under Sven half the time.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:20 (eighteen years ago)

England have been underperforming for years, I don't think they're currently any worse than usual. I honestly didn't expect england to qualify from this group when it got read out.

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:29 (eighteen years ago)

England have been underperforming for years

40 to be exact

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:32 (eighteen years ago)

Spain would be disappointed to lose to England.

I have never known England to be any good, really.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:33 (eighteen years ago)

They've never been good to watch but they've been effective in the past at least

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:34 (eighteen years ago)

The glorious charge at euro '88 being a case in point. I dunno, it'd be easy to slip into the usual woe is us handwringing but when the team are as unlovable as they are it's hard to care.

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:37 (eighteen years ago)

surely they were technically 'good to watch' against Holland (96). or is it always just a case of the other team being so bad (see also Germany 01, Denmark 02, maybe Turkey 03). never mind there are only a handful of examples anyway.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:41 (eighteen years ago)

please stop making me stick up for this bunch of sorry losers

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:43 (eighteen years ago)

You're right, the '96 side were quite entertaining in patches. Horrible tabloid thinking, but was that the last time england had anything approaching an actual team spirit, before everyone got too rich to be in a team with anybody else? That whole dentist's chair thing actually seemed to bond them as a squad

― Matt (Matt), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:43 (eighteen years ago)

That's probably right. Of course, if that useless cunt Gary McAllister hadn't blasted the ball straight at David Seaman's arse, things might have been different.

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:45 (eighteen years ago)

And if Scholes had been injured in late '99 it could've been Christian Dailly giving away a late penalty against Romania instead of Phil Neville.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:47 (eighteen years ago)

Said it before but would love to see Eng vs Sco right now. Wouldn't mind if Scotland played better and won.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:48 (eighteen years ago)

It was Uri Gellar's fault.

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:50 (eighteen years ago)

Are you really actually surprised that Spain won?

I thought the only surprise was that they only got one goal and it took a decent shot. Credits to the England defense I suppose!

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:52 (eighteen years ago)

Just a bit surprised because Spain are crap as well.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 11:59 (eighteen years ago)

my favourite moment of the match was when Spain brought on Cesc Fabregas, and we responded with.. mighty Stewart Downing!

― ken c (ken c), Friday, 9 February 2007 12:03 (eighteen years ago)

How unpatriotic of Fabregas to play against England!

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 12:04 (eighteen years ago)

How unpatriotic of Fabregas to play against England!

At least Morientes had the decency to continue failing to score on English soil.

― Gareth.J (jona), Friday, 9 February 2007 12:27 (eighteen years ago)

England have been underperforming for years
40 to be exact

-- Tom D. (tom_donnell...) (webmail), February 9th, 2007 11:32 AM. (Dada) (later) (link)

I disagree. They performed well to win it and had home advantage. Since then they've had a bunch of quarter final appearances and a couple of semi finals in major championships. I think that's round about where they should be (they should have made the '96 final and would probably have won it but I don't think they underperformed in that tournament, maybe underachieved). They're consistently a top ten team but never look like being one of the best.

Having a succession of managers (everyone after Venables maybe?) picking his best 11 available players regardless of the system hasn't helped. How many times have we seen England go into big games playing 4-4-2 with 4 central midfielders? I know traditional wingers are seen as a thing of the past but when you've got an entire team full of guys who all think they should be the one in the middle of the park spraying passes and making driving runs you've got a problem.

Oh, and you don't solve the "left-sided problem" by not having ANYONE there!

― case of the mutual heart friendship (onimo), Friday, 9 February 2007 13:05 (eighteen years ago)

I always think of Ron Greenwood's years in charge as representing the best England side of my lifetime but that's just nostalgia playing tricks with the memory. I recall something of an unbeaten run in the late '70s with a 4-2-4 formation (and much hand-wringing over what we would've done in Argentina if Revie hadn't already blown qualification by the time Ron took over) but, actually, we stormed through to Euro80 and were quite bad once we got there, got walloped 4-1 by Wales in the Home Internationals (I recall a Phil Thompson og) and the whole 1980-81 WC qualifying campaign was dire ("your boys took a hell of a beating", etc). And everyone had perms.

Still, there was that 3-1 win over Argentina at Wembley in May 1980 and Hoddle's debut strike vs Bulgaria in the fog in late '79. Sidefoot volley, edge of box, roof of net.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 9 February 2007 13:53 (eighteen years ago)

With Scotland, they were usually shite but at least entertaining with it - until Craig Brown

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

were Scotland more entertaining in Euro 92 than Euro 96 then? my Euro 92 memories are quiet poor (tho I remember England being appalling of course).

i wanna see goals like this Waddle one, at least against Andorra

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:03 (eighteen years ago)

Jesus, were we at Euro 92? I'll have to check...

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:05 (eighteen years ago)

Euro92 is the prime example (maybe the only example?) of England and Scotland both qualifying for a tournament and Scotland performing far better (and still going out earlier - out of contention before their final group game).

xp - Tom! Sco 3-0 CIS, how could you forget?

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:06 (eighteen years ago)

So all you're asking for is goals which rank in the top five goals scored for England ever*, Steve? Sounds achievable enough.

*Well OK since they startewd filming them.

― Tim (Tim), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:08 (eighteen years ago)

Oh that's right! That was a great game! As usual, we were in an easy group - Holland, Germany, CIS. Roxburgh must have been the manager? To be fair to Craig Brown, the further back you go, the better our players get...

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:09 (eighteen years ago)

CIS were only let in after Prudential got kicked out for financial irregularities, and being at war.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:09 (eighteen years ago)

Tom you can't expect Scotland to ever be in an 'easy group' in a major tournament.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:11 (eighteen years ago)

Of course you can, not all the top seeds are that good.

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:13 (eighteen years ago)

There were only 8 teams in Euro92; England were in a group with the hosts (Sweden), the replacements for Yugoslavia who ended up winning it (Denmark) and the future* world champs (France). OK, maybe that's an easier group but I think the CIS were a bit of soft touch.

(* - OK, six years hence and Blanc was probably the only player to survive that long; Cantona was in the squad though! And Platini was coach! How bad could they be?)

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:20 (eighteen years ago)

Actually, scratch that, CIS (cobbled together they may have been) held the Germans and the Dutch.

The team that got thumped by Scotland:
1. Dmitri Kharin [CSKA Moscow]
2. Andrei Chernyshov [Spartak Moscow]
3. Kakhaber Tskhahadze [Spartak Moscow]
5. Oleg Kuznetsov [Glasgow Rangers-SCO]
18. Viktor Onopko [Spartak Moscow]
7. Alexei Mikhailichenko [c] [Glasgow Rangers-SCO]
8. Andrei Kanchelskis [Manchester United-ENG]
9. Sergei Aleinikov [Lecce-ITA]
>46' 16. Dmitri Kuznetsov [Espanyol-ESP]
10. Igor Dobrovolsky [Servette Geneva-SUI]
13. Sergei Kiryakov [Dynamo Moscow]
>46' 17. Igor Korneyev [Espanyol-ESP]
11. Sergei Yuran [SL Benfica-PORT]

Not bad.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:23 (eighteen years ago)

Sorry about "Glasgow" Rangers. Not as bad as "Liverpool" Everton that you sometimes get from these pan-European stats sites.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:24 (eighteen years ago)

I think they had other things on their minds, the CIS boys

― Tom D. (Dada), Friday, 9 February 2007 14:26 (eighteen years ago)

Let's see who can get the sack for watching illicit bowls during office hours:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/video_and_audio/default.stm

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 9 February 2007 15:10 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

Rio Ferdinand as England captain (even if it is only for a friendly)?

Lest we forget his drink driving convictions, eight month ban for missing a drugs test because he was 'stuck in traffic' and his 'alleged' homophobia..

Still, better than John 'I park in disabled spaces and vote for the BNP' Terry.

― James Mitchell, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 17:00 (seventeen years ago)

Nick Collins: Have you explained to John Terry your decision to make Rio captain?

Fabio: I don't have to explain my decisions to anyone.

LOL

― Mr Raif, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 17:03 (seventeen years ago)

I'd just assumed that, with the exception of perhaps Beckham and *maybe* David James, everyone in the England squad was homophobic.

― Matt DC, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 17:05 (seventeen years ago)

Have you explained to John Terry your decision to make Rio captain?

Terry: "Hello? ... Hello? ... Mr Capello, this ain't funny any more. Is it you? .... I know somebody's there. I can hear you breathin'."
Capello: "Your mother sucks big fuckin' elephant dicks. You got that?"

― Tom D., Tuesday, 25 March 2008 17:08 (seventeen years ago)

Dicking about with Terry I can see, but how come Carrick's got the chop?

― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 17:11 (seventeen years ago)

i keep forgeting Carrick exists so don't blame Capello for doing same.

― blueski, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 17:13 (seventeen years ago)

Underwhelming sorta player

― Tom D., Tuesday, 25 March 2008 17:13 (seventeen years ago)

39 players in the French squad! to cover two games tho

― blueski, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 17:15 (seventeen years ago)

We recently revived the quaint idea of a "B" national team.

― baaderonixx, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 17:34 (seventeen years ago)

What is the evidence that Terry votes for the BNP?

ooh, just found this upthread:
[Still, there was that 3-1 win over Argentina at Wembley in May 1980 and Hoddle's debut strike vs Bulgaria in the fog in late '79. Sidefoot volley, edge of box, roof of net.
-- Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Friday, 9 February 2007]

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 18:18 (seventeen years ago)

Terry lives in the Tory-safe Esher & Walton constituency and my sources confirmed to me that he did in fact for Chinners Chinnery of the MRLP in '05.

― blueski, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 18:23 (seventeen years ago)

what sources?

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 18:43 (seventeen years ago)

the same that told matt dc there was an apostrophe in finnegans wake, as it happens

― blueski, Tuesday, 25 March 2008 18:44 (seventeen years ago)

"The Moore in question is, of course, the late Robert, captain of England, winner of 108 caps, the World Cup, and the respect of every opponent down from the uniquely competitive Pele, who, after their soaring duel in Guadalajara in 1970, tore off his shirt and entered an embrace known only to the bravest and the best of warriors.

Also in the firing line, of course, is another Robert, Sir Bobby Charlton, who scored more goals than any other Englishman in international football, won the World Cup and was told that his 106th cap would be his last immediately after he had guided England into a winning position against West Germany in the 1970 World Cup quarter-final, only to be pulled off because, in the one great aberration of his brilliant career, Sir Alf Ramsey wanted to keep him fresh for the semi-final against Italy.

The trouble with Beckham's self-promotion and the sentimentality which has swept him to tonight's milestone here is that it appears to owe no debt to the reality of football history, the smidgeon of it his career represents and the mountainous scale of those of men like Moore and Charlton."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/james-lawton-a-mickey-mouse-milestone-to-cap-beckham-fantasia-800477.html

― the pinefox, Wednesday, 26 March 2008 10:48 (seventeen years ago)

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