When you're romantically interested in someone, is it a turn-off to find out he's not a vegetarian?

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I remember when we were younger, some of my friends simply refused to date meat eaters. I was never so strict, and I have dated a few, but I can't say it doesn't have any negative impact at all. I guess general political leaning is more important, but one's diet is something you usually find out sooner, and it often correlates with other ideological views.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:43 (eighteen years ago)

it often correlates with other ideological views

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/images/hitler_adolf.jpg

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:44 (eighteen years ago)

maybe you could make them jump through a hoop

― Friendly Tree (688), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:44 (eighteen years ago)

Serious answer - I've dated several vegetarians and it has always made me sigh a bit for simply practical reasons. Had they been preachy or difficult (can't share a table with meat etc) then I might have seen it as a bit of a personality issue, but otherwise, meh.

I also thing this is a silly, patronising thread which makes you look petty btw.

― === temporary username === (Mark C), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:47 (eighteen years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_of_Adolf_Hitler

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:48 (eighteen years ago)

o no hitler was a vegetarian so that must therefore mean/zttz/GET ONE NEW TROPE, HATER.

I am not a vegetarian, my wife is. We have been together for 14yrs. we argue about stuff sometimes, but never about that. The kind of person for whom vegetarianism or non-vegetarianism is a deal-breaker in relationship terms is probably not someone who I'd want to be in a relationship w/anyway, though YMMV, obv.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:49 (eighteen years ago)

if anyone has a problem with me not liking cheese or milk, retract those V-cards now.

― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:50 (eighteen years ago)

also, hitler liked dogs and churchill liked cats, so all dog owners are nazis, and all cat owners are paternalistic racist imperialis, oh, hang on a minute there.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:50 (eighteen years ago)

oh ffs you two, i know 'hitler was a veggie' is played out but if tuomas is seriously going to argue that vegetarianism is confined to the political left, it's an open goal.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:51 (eighteen years ago)

The kind of person for whom vegetarianism or non-vegetarianism is a deal-breaker in relationship terms is probably not someone who I'd want to be in a relationship w/anyway

srsly otm

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:52 (eighteen years ago)

From the other side of Mark C's point - it depends on the attitude of the meat-eater. If *they* are going to view it as a problem that I'm veggie, then that makes it difficult, as a personality problem that they have!

I don't think I'm particularly preachy - but I am a fussy eater, and always have been, even before I was veggie. But if a bloke is constantly going to be on my case about trying to wind me up or stunt eating with the express point of making a point, then that isn't going to work at all.

But then again, being intolerant of a potential partner's viewpoints (be they the eating of meat, religion, politics, the raising of children, etc. etc.) is NEVER a good sign for a potential relationship anyway.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:52 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not trying to patronize, I'm just mentioning something that might affect people's romantic interest, and not just in my case. I'd say ethics and romantic interest are not totally separate. If I'd asked, "Would you date a Bush supporter / conservative?", would that have sounded less patronizing?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:52 (eighteen years ago)

Okay, maybe that would be patronizing towards Bush supporters and conservatives, but since ILE leans generally to the left, I formulated the question that way.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:56 (eighteen years ago)

There are other concerns than simply "vegetarianism" or not equating with "Bush supporter/conservative".

I'd *much* rather date someone who was into "Real Food" who cared about where his meat came from, who supported Farmers Markets and bought organic meat - than I would a "vegetarian" who lived on Taco Bell and the veggie equivalent of fast food.

Yes, one's interests and beliefs and ethics are important in trying to match up a romantic relationship, but they can be expressed in ways that are not that simple.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:57 (eighteen years ago)

Obviously, but I chose vegetarianism as an example, because it's something you usually learn quite early about a person.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:59 (eighteen years ago)

...but actually, when it comes down to it, there are other things that are far more important in actually maintaining a relationship. Such as, how people deal with *differences* in beliefs, ethics, etc.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 11:59 (eighteen years ago)

the bigger problem than having different eating habits is their or your making a thing of it. as with going out with a smoker or non-smoker. vegetarians who shun meat-eaters have very weird personal politics.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:00 (eighteen years ago)

Is this the quickest instance of Godwin's Law on ILx, i.e. second post?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:01 (eighteen years ago)

I've been out with vegetarians before and I used to be one myself. I think it would be an annoyance that I couldn't phone up and say "I got some duck! Come over for dinner!" like I did this weekend, for example, but it's not a deal breaker.

― Mädchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:03 (eighteen years ago)

living with a vegetarian/non-vegetarian would be a bigger problem, i would imagine.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:04 (eighteen years ago)

for me i think the moral/ideological thing and the turn-off thing are separate. ideologically i'm 100% with what kate said about preferring a meat-eater who eats good meat than a veggie who eats shite all the time, but physically i find meat filthy and repellent, and i don't want my mouth anywhere near the mouth of anyone who's been eating it. don't mind it being on the same table/in the same fridge/etc etc though.

― emsk ( emsk), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:06 (eighteen years ago)

Is Tuomas the longest-running troll in the history of ILX? I hope so, I can't believe people like that are allowed to exist in real life! What a wanker

― Bluto (Mr Happy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:07 (eighteen years ago)

So long as certain respect is shown and certain rules are followed (and usually this is about the meat eater realising that these are not mindless foibles, but that certain meat carelessness will make the veggie terribly SICK), vegetarians and non-veg can live together perfectly happily. I have done so, and I would do so again, with the right person.

Smokers and non-smokers, though, I fear, cannot live together. I've never had a good experience there.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:07 (eighteen years ago)

i guess it depends on if you eat together, that. living with a smoker ain't no thang.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:09 (eighteen years ago)

Living with a smoker is utterly repulsive, the smell of it, the dirt of it, the filth - I could never kiss a person who had been smoking, it's like kissing an ashtray.

Dating a meateater, well, if they've just had a massive steak, I'd make them brush their teeth if they wanted to kiss me. (Same as I'd brush my teeth if I'd just eaten a giant bowl of onions and chillies and was expecting action.)

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:11 (eighteen years ago)

My problem would be that it would always be in the back of my mind 'what if things get to the living together?'* stage. And by all accounts if you live with a vegetarian you basically are a vegetarian, and I'm not sure I'd be able to cope with that. If they were totally cool about the whole thing I'd be fine with it.

*I am aware that, given my track record, this is a massive and somewhat ridiculous leap to make.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:22 (eighteen years ago)

i'm an unshakeable carnivore and my gf is a vegie. i don't think (and i can't imagine) it would be very likely we'd ever argue about it. a lot of vegie food is very tasty and if i want something meaty i make it myself. easy.

― jimbo (electricsound), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:23 (eighteen years ago)

Both my flatmates are vegetarian, as was my ex-boyfriend. It's fine, I'm not obsessed with eating meat and they are far from preachy. I just take care to wash up any meat/ fish cooking equipment and crockery. That said it is nice to go out with a non-vegetarian, but only because I like cooking and it's pleasant to be able to cook a wider range of dishes that someone else will eat.

― Anna (Anna), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:42 (eighteen years ago)

I've just noticed Tuomas uses the male pronoun in the title rather than a female or neutral one.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:51 (eighteen years ago)

: O)))))))))))

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 12:55 (eighteen years ago)

i wonder if marc loi would phrase things the same way

― Friendly Tree (688), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 13:11 (eighteen years ago)

I would never date a social conservative. Could handle a veggie but not having a man to fire up the grill for me on weekends would make me sad.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 13:45 (eighteen years ago)

Like veggies don't BBQ and women can't light fires. Sheesh.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 13:50 (eighteen years ago)

he could still fire up a grill even if he didn't eat anything from it, no? i helped someone cook BACON in november, and i fucking hate the smell of bacon.

ha xpost.

― emsk ( emsk), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 13:52 (eighteen years ago)

I can just imagine The Russians's response to that. "Maybe your puny TEXAN fires are too inconsequential to be trifled with by girls..."

In Russia, fire burns you! No, wait. I mean, In Russia, the RUSSIAN burns you.

::then she proceeds to burn up everything in sight::

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

I make veggies to grill, as sides to STEAK. And yes I can run a grill but I'd rather him do it. Just like I can change a tire and brake shoes but I feel cared for when he does it instead. And I don't have to get dirty.

There's a big difference in being able to do something for yourself and having someone care enough to do it for you. I'll take the latter anytime, thank you.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 13:55 (eighteen years ago)

ok we are TOTAL opposites.

― emsk ( emsk), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 13:58 (eighteen years ago)

Ooh, strike a blow against the forces of social converatism, you giant feminist you!

Next week, women find out that they can wind clocks and pump petrol, but if a MANG does it for you, it means he really loves you!

x-post

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 13:58 (eighteen years ago)

I'm enjoying this hugely romantic thread enormously.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:00 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2007/02/01/boston-panic-cp-11533401.jpg

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:00 (eighteen years ago)

would it prove he loved you/cared for you more if he was veggie but still did your steak stuff for you? (not meant to sound snarky)

― emsk ( emsk), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:01 (eighteen years ago)

:-O

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/97516221/ABSTRACT

A preliminary study revealed that participants perceived that meat, particularly red meat, symbolises the endorsement of inequality and hierarchy values more than other basic foods.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:01 (eighteen years ago)

That's OK, Sam, I can remember you being the most voiciferous vegetarian in the world back when you were still in love with Graham Coxon.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:02 (eighteen years ago)

would it prove he loved you/cared for you more if he was veggie but still did your steak stuff for you? (not meant to sound snarky)

yes that is be sweet anytime someone goes out of their way just to do something for you. Like I pay for his subscription to listen to Howard Stern, who I loathe.

Kate, just so you know when I'm actually talking to you, I'll be sure to preface it with Ignikot up there.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:04 (eighteen years ago)

i dont care either way, even though i eat meat i dont eat much of it.

― GULLIBLE (Mandee), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:11 (eighteen years ago)

My problem would be that it would always be in the back of my mind 'what if things get to the living together?'

this is how the jesuits logically recommended against dating outside the catholic faith: "not every date results in marriage but every marriage begins with a date."

a distinction emerges here between ideologically motivated vegeterianism and more pragmatic vegeterianism. for the former, it's a priori romantic turnoff for the latter probably not.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:16 (eighteen years ago)

Girls who are strict vegetarians until they get a meat-eating boyfriend are the "Dykes until graduation" of the ethical food world!

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:24 (eighteen years ago)

Is he a good tipper?

― milo z (mlp), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:26 (eighteen years ago)

FWIW, of the veg/non-veg couples that I know, it's strange that many of them do not persist with the division after cohabitation.

But then again, maybe this is the ideologically motivated vegeterianism and more pragmatic vegeterianism divide.

It also depends on who cooks, though. In veg/non-veg couples, if it's the cooking one who is veg, then the non-veg partner ends up going veg by default, since tasty meals cooked by someone else always win out. I know men with veg wives who only ever eat meat when they dine out.

I'm trying to think of male veg/female non-veg couples where the man has given up his vegetarianism, and I can't really think of any. (Maybe it tends to be a more ideological decision on their parts, rather than that "ooh, bunnies and cows are fluffy" soft veggie option that results in DUG attitudes towards food that are abandonned with relationships.)

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:31 (eighteen years ago)

1. Tuomas Troll Question
2. Godwin Invoked
3. Kate Car Crash
4. Marcello Sideline Sniping

Shortest ever time to cover all bases?

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:32 (eighteen years ago)

Are you talking to me Milo? Yes he's a generous guy. I'm also a great tipper although I recently got shit from co-workers when I said you don't tip on tax. sorry, don't want another tipping thread.

I guess to address Tuomas's original question, vegetarainsim would not be a deal-breaker for me. In fact the only things that would be, personal/social view-wise, would be the obvious: racism, sexism, anti-liberalism. I was veggie for about 3 or 4 years, not too long a run. A Whataburger was my undoing many years ago. Cows are such magnificent, delicious animals.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:33 (eighteen years ago)

Sorry, where is this "Kate car crash" - do you just view any time I post as a "car crash", Omino?

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:33 (eighteen years ago)

No, just every time you take a fairly innocent thread and make it personal.

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:35 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, maybe that's every time

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:35 (eighteen years ago)

I suppose everything I post is a "car crash" like everything Tuomas posts is "trolling". In the eye of the beholder.

Questions about "dating" are inherently personal! Ditto ones about ethical choice! This thread would be pretty short if it were all abstract and no personal experience.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:36 (eighteen years ago)

You are deciding what motivates other people's ethical choices. You are talking about someone else's personal experience as if it was your own. All this "giving up on veggie = DUG" stuff is nothing to do with you sharing dating experience.

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:38 (eighteen years ago)

I also notice, Onimo, that you haven't answered the question nor commented on the debate in any way shape or form - so you tell me whose posts on this thread are "personal".

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:38 (eighteen years ago)

There's a big difference in being able to do something for yourself and having someone care enough to do it for you.i>
These aren't really either/or, would it be better to say 'having to do something that you're able to vs having someone care enough to do it for you'?

xp Kate, I think it's clear that Onimo's commenting on the debate, much as it's clear that you're bringing an truckload of personal issues with Sam into this in a pretty ugly manner.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:43 (eighteen years ago)

Ooh, strike a blow against the forces of social converatism, you giant feminist you!

Next week, women find out that they can wind clocks and pump petrol, but if a MANG does it for you, it means he really loves you!

x-post

-- Fire and Worms (masonicboo...) (webmail), February 6th, 2007 1:58 PM. (kate) (later) (link)

That's OK, Sam, I can remember you being the most voiciferous vegetarian in the world back when you were still in love with Graham Coxon.

-- Fire and Worms (masonicboo...) (webmail), February 6th, 2007 2:02 PM. (kate) (later) (link)

Girls who are strict vegetarians until they get a meat-eating boyfriend are the "Dykes until graduation" of the ethical food world!

-- Fire and Worms (masonicboo...) (webmail), February 6th, 2007 2:24 PM. (kate) (later) (link)

Now maybe I'm reading to much into all these things being posted after what Sam said but that looks fairly personal to me.

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:43 (eighteen years ago)

since tasty meals cooked by someone else always win out

This argument works both ways, surely?

Anyway, I'm a man who gave up vegetarianism having moved in with a non-vegetarian. My vegetarianism was all pretty much ethically motivated, until I arrived at the crossroads that either I became a vegan (dairy industry responsible for a huge amount of animal cruelty) or gave it all up and became more serious about where my food came from. Moving in with a non-vegetarian made the decision easier for me.

I have some sympathies with your "men are rational, women are just daft and emotional" argument, but I'm scared Tuomas would call me a nasty horrible sexist if I espoused it.

xpost to Kate from a bit upthread

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:44 (eighteen years ago)

Ha, when Onimo said "every time", I misread it as "my penis in a llama"!

(Now all we need is an image bomb and someone is sure to win ILX bingo.)

(xpost: Also there was an xpost! Someone's got to have a bingo now.)

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:44 (eighteen years ago)

My opinion on this - I eat meat. So does my wife. I can understand it being a deal breaker for some strict ethical veggies. I await Tuomas' opinion on the matter.

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:45 (eighteen years ago)

1. Tuomas Troll Question
2. Godwin Invoked
3. Kate Car Crash
4. Marcello Sideline Sniping
5. xpost

Shortest ever time to cover all bases!

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:47 (eighteen years ago)

Wait, there's no Ned post!

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:48 (eighteen years ago)

heavens!

― oNedmo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:48 (eighteen years ago)

I'm trying to think of male veg/female non-veg couples where the man has given up his vegetarianism, and I can't really think of any

j & k? (where j is the bloke and they don't live in london any more)

DUG??

― emsk ( emsk), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:48 (eighteen years ago)

Ha, when Onimo said "every time", I misread it as "my penis in a llama"!

Dan, I love you.

― N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:49 (eighteen years ago)

We are also missing a sarcastic jpg on thread. I suggest tuomas_sundae.jpg

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:49 (eighteen years ago)

DUG??

Dyke-Until-Graduation

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:50 (eighteen years ago)

"men are rational, women are just daft and emotional" argument

That's not what I said.

I have noticed a trend of women, that they tend to hold politicised opinions while they are young, which they release or give up when it comes called into romantic conflict.

I don't think this is due to women being inherently non-rational, but that we are socialised to believe that a relationship is the be-all and end-all of their existence.

That they will give up being able to do things of their own volition and impetus because they've been taught that having boys do it for them is evidence of "love" and "caring" and that this state of being loved and cared for is more important than their own beliefs.

This kind of thinking makes me depressed and angry. You see that my disagreeing with Sam over her personal hypocrisy is evidence of having "personal issues" - perhaps did you never think that the long-running "personal issues" are the result of that personal hypocrisy?

or is that just "fuzzy feminine thinking"?

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:50 (eighteen years ago)

Don't ask me, you're the one attributing one type of thought process to men and a different one to women.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:55 (eighteen years ago)

Kate, most modern women expect men to do the exact same thing.

― The Android Cat (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:56 (eighteen years ago)

this state of being loved and cared for is more important than their own beliefs.

this isn't actually a terrible way of seeing the world.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:56 (eighteen years ago)

Damn you Tuomas!

― vita susicivus (blueski), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:56 (eighteen years ago)

People, both male and female, also release or give up politicised opinions for any number of other reasons. Notably finding themselves in a more stable environment when they suddenly have jobs/houses/children. There are about a million factors that could influence such a change.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:57 (eighteen years ago)

xpost - That would work better if we didn't know Sam, and know that trying to squeeze her into that model is ~~complete shite~~ perhaps unwise.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 14:59 (eighteen years ago)

xxpost

As promised. .
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/photos/2007/02/01/boston-panic-cp-11533401.jpg

I have noticed a trend of women, that they tend to hold politicised opinions while they are young, which they release or give up when it comes called into romantic conflict.

Kate, this is called "getting older" not "romantic conflict." I would expect you of all ,with your bitter middle-aged woman shitck, to understand this. You keep bringing up things from when you knew me when I was what, 23? 24? I'm 33 now and yes, I'm a very different person. If you're the same person you were when you were 24, well I feel sorry for you.

God, I can't believe I'm letting myself be dragged into this. Over STAKES! *shoots self*

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:01 (eighteen years ago)

DUG - Dyke Until Graduation.

Females who encounter feminism, often of a radical kind, for the first time when they go to University. That's fantastic, as that kind of mind-opening is the whole point of University.

However, when "Feminism" becomes politicised into anti-man rather than pro-woman, and a lesbian personna can sometimes be cultivated. (Often to maintain status within a radical feminist group, also known as fashion lesbianism.) And yes, I am talking about some women who *cultivate* a lesbian image, rather than women who were just born gay and that is the way they are.

When these women leave university, and no longer have the support/peer pressure of that group, the fashion lesbians meet male partners and stop being lesbians. I can only hope that they did not stop being feminists.

Maybe this is me "deciding what provokes others' ethical choices" but this was something I observed again and again in mine own peer group, and in others younger than me.

Experimenting with sexuality is very much part of adolescence and growing up and all that. I just used to really resent being lectured by posturing younger "Feminists" that I was not as feminist as them because I still had sex with and engaged with boys - when five years later some of them did exactly the same. That I call hypocrisy.

Same with radical vegetarians - the ones who are preachy and making mooing noises while others eat their dinner - who simply abandon their ethical decisions when they meet a man who eats meat.

And very funny how it is EXACTLY the same women who perform these same exact volte-faces.

This will probably x-post to hell as this thread seems intent on degenerating, but I just wanted to explain.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:01 (eighteen years ago)

STAKES

It's spelled STEAKS, I believe.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:02 (eighteen years ago)

sad

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:03 (eighteen years ago)

xpost
no shit, it's also called SARCASM! Get one sense of humor.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:03 (eighteen years ago)

mad

― RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:05 (eighteen years ago)

OK, who had spelling correction in the sweepstake?

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:05 (eighteen years ago)

tuomas truly is flamebait for all time

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:06 (eighteen years ago)

mmmm high steaks.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:08 (eighteen years ago)

Kate, when did yo go to university? Because to me the whole "you have to be dyke to be a feminist" sounds like a late seventies / early eighties thing, at least in here few feminists have expressed such views in ages.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:08 (eighteen years ago)

Big Brother beckons.

― N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:08 (eighteen years ago)

nobody's started the "when you're romantically interested in someone, is it a turn-off to find out he/she is a vegetarian?" thread yet??

surely is a bigger issue that someone you date CAN'T eat everything you eat, rather than if they CAN eat the food you eat, but they also eat other things.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:09 (eighteen years ago)

when five years later some of them did exactly the same. That I call hypocrisy.

I don't think it's hypocrisy when it's five years later. If they'd been doing it at the time then yeah but of course people's minds change as they get older.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:10 (eighteen years ago)

If we're playing at strawman building contests, what about those dudes who just behave really gay to get girls?

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:11 (eighteen years ago)

Jack Tripper?

― N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:12 (eighteen years ago)

Tuomas has made it clear he doesn't want to be part of this thread, leave him out of it.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:12 (eighteen years ago)

If we're playing at strawman building contests, what about those dudes who just behave really gay to get girls?

I've just noticed Tuomas uses the male pronoun in the title rather than a female or neutral one.

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:12 (eighteen years ago)

This was the late 80s/early 90s, Tuomas, and perhaps provincial Merkin academia was a decade behind. But I was still seeing young women going through it as late as 2001, which I felt was a bit sad!

I don't think it's hypocrisy when it's five years later. If they'd been doing it at the time then yeah but of course people's minds change as they get older.

No, it's human nature to change and grow and experience different things that change your mind. It is not the changing that makes it hypocrisy, but the sheer volume at which every stage was trumpeted as the ultimate state for ALL humankind, which was grating then and still is now.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:14 (eighteen years ago)

Also, it's kinda weird that many meat eaters seem to assume that (ethical) vegetarians are these preachy, aggressive types... I haven't really preached about the subject ever since I was a teenager, and almost all my vegetarian friends are the same way. Many people go through a phase where they try to convert other folks, but for most it passes as they get older. When I said that non-vegetarianism might have a negative effect on me, it didn't mean I would refuse to date anyone on that basis - as I said, I have done so, and it never really was a problem. But I wouldn't say vegetarianism doesn't ever tell anything about a person, just like the way they dress might do, and it seems I'm more drawn towards vegetarians, even in cases where I didn't know it beforehand.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:16 (eighteen years ago)

(several x-posts)

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:16 (eighteen years ago)

well kate, if you are even still referring to me, I'm sorry if I was an annoying ass back then. If it makes you happy, rest assured that life has done plenty in the ensuing years to knock me down a few notches. Now, drop it already.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:17 (eighteen years ago)

How regularly does this actually happen? Or is this like when my (very right wing) boss starts banging on about how every single socialist in the world grows up to become a City Boy? It strikes me we're having a very silly argument about what is a pretty small percentage of vegetarians or feminists or whatever.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:18 (eighteen years ago)

Tuomas, meat-eaters are probably as traumatised by encountering a couple of vegans still in their preachy stage as I still am by DUGs.

;-)

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:18 (eighteen years ago)

It was only about 5 years ago that I saw a film on C4 schools programming that held up a bizarre impression of a vegetarian child and pointed out all the things that were wrong with them and why it was bad not to eat meat. I never worked out if it was for real or not.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

Also, it's kinda weird that many meat eaters seem to assume that (ethical) vegetarians are these preachy, aggressive types...

yes indeed, what could be preachy about people who style themselves '(ethical)'?

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

C4 is always 4real

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

I'm just posting here incase anyone has me on their bingo card.

― teh_kit never wins (g-kit), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:20 (eighteen years ago)

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3470/markgn0.jpg

― fuck yr face blogger (a_p), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:20 (eighteen years ago)

yes indeed, what could be preachy about people who style themselves '(ethical)'?

Huh? To me everyone's ethical in one way or another, it's not the same as shoving your ethics down someone's throat.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:21 (eighteen years ago)

It's not the belief that triggers the resentment, but the preachy stage itself.

I mean, you guys, try to imagine, five, ten years in the future, being on a messageboard, and the now grown up Louis Jagger comes in and starts banging on at great lengths about how to be a pimp mack-daddy in extremis?

Are you going to think that surely he must now be a grown-up, much changed and matured person, or are you still going to be holding that screaming 20 year old virgin in your head, when you deal with Future-Louis?

Or is this like when my (very right wing) boss starts banging on about how every single socialist in the world grows up to become a City Boy?

many of them do. It's a universal constant, he who fucks nuns will one day join the church.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:21 (eighteen years ago)

I was wondering where the nuns with sticks were going to come in.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:22 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi0dCAqmF10

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:23 (eighteen years ago)

mr que otm

― fuck yr face blogger (a_p), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:24 (eighteen years ago)

TEAM SAM

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:24 (eighteen years ago)

I had nuns with sticks on my bingo card. Now I only need Tim H going "I've got a fantastic reggae version of that" to win. I fear I am destined for disappointment.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:24 (eighteen years ago)

My kingdom for a killfile...

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:24 (eighteen years ago)

JAWBONE LETS OUT A MISPLACED SHOT

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:25 (eighteen years ago)

man I just wasted so much time trying to find screenshots of the "Lisa is a Vegetarian" Simpsons. (FWIW I only found one of Lisa in Apu's garden with the McCartneys. I wanted the film by the meat industry, dammit)

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:26 (eighteen years ago)

when you're romantically interested in a rabbit-killer, is it a turn-off to find out he's an infertile spouse?

― fuck yr face blogger (a_p), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:26 (eighteen years ago)

TEAM SAM

Not one of T Rex's better hits. Not up to the standard of MEL GURU.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua129pv-eKE

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

i get no kicks anymore

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

I come at this from a slightly different angle. I am a meat eater and I am really turned off by other meat eaters who don't show respect to animals and, even worse, won't handle meat before cooking. I'd much rather date a vegetarian. Although I would probably put someone who could rustle a good plate of tripe and onions high in my estimations.

I keep separate chopping boards for meat and veg as a matter of hygiene and a matter of courtesy to vegetarian guests.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:28 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.boosman.com/blog/images/2003-08-15-03.jpg

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:28 (eighteen years ago)

I guess I arrived too late.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:29 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.moveleft.com/vegontv/images/lisasimpson1.jpg

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:30 (eighteen years ago)

I keep separate chopping boards for meat and veg as a matter of hygiene and a matter of courtesy to vegetarian guests.

This should be just common hygiene, regardless of vegetarianism or not! Hello salmonella if you don't!

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:31 (eighteen years ago)

and, even worse, won't handle meat before cooking

i dont understand this

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:32 (eighteen years ago)

Hello salmonella if you don't!

Mmm, disease.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:34 (eighteen years ago)

BINGO!

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:34 (eighteen years ago)

I am a meat eater and I am really turned off by other meat eaters who don't show respect to animals and, even worse, won't handle meat before cooking.

amen.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:35 (eighteen years ago)

Onimo beat me to it!

haha, you tube, is there anything you can't do?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/178/381773725_ce99968496.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/125/381773724_64dcf8038f.jpg

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:36 (eighteen years ago)

ile was very slow this morning.

i guess that's what they pay tuomas for.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:37 (eighteen years ago)

Gee, I wonder how I've managed to avoid salmonella all these years even though I use one cutting board. Maybe it's because I wash it a couple times a day! But Kate says "hello salmonella" if I don't use more than one! I'm sure she knows what's good for me better than I do! I guess I'm about to catch the 'nella!

― Tuesdays With Morimoto (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:37 (eighteen years ago)

youre cursed now

i still dont get what the not handling meat is about. like actually holding it?

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

I keep separate chopping boards for meat and veg as a matter of hygiene and a matter of courtesy to vegetarian guests.

-- Ed (dal...), February 6th, 2007.

makes sense i guess if you're preparing meals for veggies and non- simultaneously, but otherwise...

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

judging people by their preferred power source isn't very deep.

― darragh.mac (darragh.mac), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

Giant backtrack because signal malfunction made me an hour late for work and there's no heat in my apartment and I AM CRANKY:

Kate, the opinion that having someone care enough to do things for you is better than getting dirty is a perfectly legitimate one since the most useful goal of the women's movement has always been to give all people their CHOICE of roles to play. It sounds like Sam's made her choice and has a willing partner in it, and while it wouldn't be my choice it's also none of my business. It DEFINITELY doesn't make me want to call her out in public, mostly because, well...I'd rather put space between me and people I don't grok, not get them in a fighting clench and be closer than ever.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:40 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

but it forms part of the matrix

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:41 (eighteen years ago)

Laurel totally OTM.

― Tuesdays With Morimoto (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:43 (eighteen years ago)

Depends on the surface and how absorbent it is. I'd do this for wood and definitely for plastic HDPE, HDPS and PP chopping boards. Glass chopping boards, I'd be less worried but still do it.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:43 (eighteen years ago)

Most meat-eaters I've known/lived with could not be bothered washing the chopping board with soap and hot water between chopping raw meat and chopping veg. Hence the double-board solution. (Except for those idiot housemates who could never get their heads around which was which, or thought it "didn't matter" because they "had never had food poisoning in their lives!")

Meat-eaters are at danger if they chop raw meat, and then chop veg which will be eaten raw.

If you don't eat meat for a number of years, you lose your ability to digest meat, and have much lower resistence to the kinds of bugs that feed on raw meat, so chopping board cleanliness is a lot more of an issue for us.

Oh, why am I even bothering to continue posting to this thread? I suppose it beats analysis of residential to buy to let remortgages.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:44 (eighteen years ago)

i guess you've lived with a bunch of idiots then

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:45 (eighteen years ago)

i still dont get what the not handling meat is about. like actually holding it?

fWIW I'm not crazy about preparing raw meats. (like meatloaf. . .nasty). e.g. I try to buy preformed patties when making burgers (although that might just be laziness). Wait, I take that back. Working with a whole raw chicken is actually pretty fun. Never mind.

Laurel glad to know you don't, er, grok me.

ILx be mean this morning. . .

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:45 (eighteen years ago)

x-x-x-posts.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:45 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, why am I even bothering to continue posting to this thread?

Because you're absolutely right in everything you say, and if only you could make us see that, the world would be a better place. There's this guy named Paul Wagemann you should meet...

― Tuesdays With Morimoto (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:47 (eighteen years ago)

Mwahahhahaaha, my roommates are both veg so I'M the one fouling up the kitchen with Andouille sausages and free-range chicken and ground beef! I bleach after chicken, though, plus almost all the kitchen stuff is MINE. :)

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:48 (eighteen years ago)

i cant touch raw chicken or be near raw chicken. too nasty with the gullets and gizzards or whatever the fuck is going on in there = instant pukes. i love cooked chicken though. im a terrible person.

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:50 (eighteen years ago)

actually not even just raw chicken. i cant touch those whole cooked chickens either.

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:50 (eighteen years ago)

look, chickens are gross.

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:51 (eighteen years ago)

One of my pals is a rabid meat eater, but married to a vegetarian. He spends his time tucking into shanks of beef at every available opportunity and moaning about the rubbish he has to eat at home. God bless him. Erm, he sometimes reads ILX, hope I haven't blown the trumpet.

― The Real Dirty Vicar (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:51 (eighteen years ago)

I always boil the guts for the dogs. They watch me dress a chicken in anticipation of the gutty goodness.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:51 (eighteen years ago)

No dogs are going to get their hands on my giblets, they are for me.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:52 (eighteen years ago)

Why on earth would you eat something that you cannot even bear to touch? I mean, you're putting it in your mouth, aren't you? Isn't that touching it - with a much more intimate part of you than your fingers.

Meat-eaters be weird.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:53 (eighteen years ago)

all the gross guts are cleaned away by the time i eat it though.

its like prawns with the poop line. with poopline = puke. without = yummo.

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:54 (eighteen years ago)

BINGO!

-- Haikunym (zinogu...), February 6th, 2007. (later)

Okay, I was wondering what that was about, and then I read through the thread again.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:55 (eighteen years ago)

i eat meat, not digestive systems

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:55 (eighteen years ago)

... the most ironic thing of all being that the same meat-eating housemate who could never get their head around not chopping meat on the veg board was the same one who used to complain about my bringing home bones from archeological digs.

"It's a bone, ew!"
"yes, just like the one you were gnawing at dinner last night"

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:55 (eighteen years ago)

about the not handling meat thing, it's my personal opinion that if people eat meat then they should be okay with the raw, messy, bloody stuff as opposed to freaking out at the sight of it. your food doesn't spring forth sliced, off the bone and cooked through. i'd NEVER lecture someone about this, though, and i don't think it makes someone a bad person. if i did, i'd have to write off about 95% of the people that i know.

many xposts

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:55 (eighteen years ago)

Is this thread complete now that Ned has posted?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:57 (eighteen years ago)

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/c/c3/Samburgar.JPG

okay I'll stop posting so many imgs. sorry, sorry.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:57 (eighteen years ago)

What is completeness, really?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:57 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, wait...

its like prawns with the poop line. with poopline = puke. without = yummo.

"Poop lines"??

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:57 (eighteen years ago)

We still need a lengthy post from nabisco followed by an OTM.

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

xxxx-post. i dont know. i like things clean. its why i shop at kroger rather than the woods.

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

Mind you, I don't think I've ever eaten a prawn.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

*checks watch* I give it within three hours, Onimo.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:58 (eighteen years ago)

I would not cut squeamish meat eaters from contact, friendship and the like, they wouldn't get a lecture, but maybe some gentle ribbing. It's different when it comes to coupling up, though.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:59 (eighteen years ago)

Sam, I like getting dirty and being capable of things that people don't expect (esp given the fact that I look like an underaged milkmaid most of the time) so that's pretty much the opposite of yr philosophy as given on-thread! It's just not really comprehensible to me. However, the other advantage of not getting in public scrapes about it is that if we ever meet we might get along perfectly well and then wouldn't I feel silly if I'd made a big fuss?

Lauren's onto something, there. If you eat meat, it's err, useful to at least acknowledge the fact that an animal had to die for your dinner, and honor it enough to handle the real thing.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 15:59 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, the first time i cooked a whole chicken and had to reach in and get the giblets out, i gagged a bit but i took a couple deep breaths and it passed really fast, esp once i took a look at the giblets and the inside of teh chicken - REALITIES
still not sure if i could cut a chicken's head off though. probably should though.

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

I haven't posted a food-related video game screenshot.

― teh_kit never wins (g-kit), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:01 (eighteen years ago)

gutting fish = way more traumatizing to me. but i know i can do it now...
xpost

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:01 (eighteen years ago)

i don't think you should drive a car unless you know how to refine crude oil. but that's just me. also what is up with these wine drinkers who've never spent a day picking grapes?

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:01 (eighteen years ago)

Considering Ed takes groups of children out into the forest and teaches them the best way to decapitate a yak*, I would wonder about his definition of 'squeamish'.

*Disclaimer - may not actually be true

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:01 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

If you eat meat, it's err, useful to at least acknowledge the fact that an animal had to die for your dinner, and honor it enough to handle the real thing

i cook and handle meat most days, but isn't this sentence just a leetle po-faced?

― darragh.mac (darragh.mac), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:02 (eighteen years ago)

I just realized I'm kind of prolonging this thread's agonies because I'm cranky and bored this morning, and it amuses me. Sorry, everybody!

Rrob, descaling and gutting a fish is something I haven't done yet -- will have to eventually! If it were ever necessary, I hope to be as brave as my great-grandmother, who had to wring dinner's neck before it got anywhere near the kitchen.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:02 (eighteen years ago)

I was going to agree with Ed on this, and actually go beyond him and say there's no way I'd eat an animal I wouldn't be prepared to go out and kill myself.

Then I realised I'd happily eat, say, crocodile meat given the opportunity and realised I am 1x big metropolitan wuss after all.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:03 (eighteen years ago)

i like things clean. its why i shop at kroger rather than the woods.

see, to me, a lot of stuff at the grocery store seems dirty. anonymous grey stuff packed in styrofoam... i feel a lot better if i know more about where stuff comes from and how it was handled. at the shore, i can buy squid or bluefish or something that just came out of the water that day and take it home and gut/clean it myself and know that it hasn't been halfway around the world and frozen and messed with in a factory.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:03 (eighteen years ago)

well perhaps not so much. I look like a tomboy most of the time - skate shoes, no make up, vulgar sailor language and public enemy/eazy e on the ipod. Then I pull out my knitting needles. Also I have a deck hanging above my sewing machine. I appreciate contrast.

However, the other advantage of not getting in public scrapes about it is that if we ever meet we might get along perfectly well and then wouldn't I feel silly if I'd made a big fuss?

I don't hold things personal with (mostly) anyone here. As much as we all love it, the net isn't a substitue for actual personal interaction and I know most ILx0rs are fine people in person.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

it's my personal opinion that if people eat meat then they should be okay with the raw, messy, bloody stuff as opposed to freaking out at the sight of it.

This does frustrate me about my wife. She loves her a cheeseburger but gets all "ew ew ew" when I remind her that it used to be an animal. I pretty much agree with Ed, it's good to honor the beast you're about to eat by being willing to get its blood on your hands.

so many xposts

― Tuesdays With Morimoto (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:05 (eighteen years ago)

I recommend burning candles as a sacrifice as you defrost it.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:06 (eighteen years ago)

esp given the fact that I look like an underaged milkmaid most of the time

Laurel, surely you should have big strong arms, broad shoulders and a saucy laugh, then.

I was going to find an image of a typical milk maid but this cow furry is much more disturbing.

http://home.tephras.com/visual/2000/MilkMaidC.jpg

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

also what is up with these wine drinkers who've never spent a day picking grapes?

this is really fun for an hour or so, before it turns into backbreaking manual labor.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

In the 8 years that I've been vegetarian, I've had three long-term girlfriends. The first two were both vegetarian, and at some point early on I remember thinking that I couldn't be with anyone who wasn't. This was partly a matter of "ew, I don't want to kiss that" but mostly a sense that it would be indicative of some greater incompatibility, sort of like my edict when I was in college that I would never date anyone who wore athletic shoes as their primary footwear. But that was all at a time when I was wrapped up in identity, and obsessed with what my lifestyle choices said about me, and now I just don't care as much.

My current girlfriend is a meat-eater, but she doesn't eat red meat that often, and she likes vegetarian cuisine a lot, so it's never really an issue. (When we cook together, it's always vegetarian.) She was happy, however, when I started eating fish every now and then. (I realize that this probably makes me no longer a vegetarian in some people's eyes.) Maybe it's because I'm no longer as adamant about the ethical aspects of vegetarianism -- sometimes I think that I'm a vegetarian just because I've been one for so long -- but it seems like a small thing to get in the way of a fulfilling relationship. I mean, if Mary Matalin and James Carville can make their marriage work, dietary habits seem trivial.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

When I was younger, and before I became a vegetarian, I was perfectly happy to get my hands dirty, chop up carcasses, dissect anything in sight, gut chickens (and do scientific experiments on the neck bones and the like) and anything else. I was convinced that I was going to be a doctor or a vet, so it was all training and investigation as far as I was concerned.

But then again, my mum grew up on a farm and I grew up in farmland, never had a sentimental metropolitan attitude to food.

The not eating meat thing grew out of negative experiences as I was training to become a vet (oh, and an ill timed acid trip) - if anything, I'd expect people who are squeamish about raw meat to be more likely to be vegetarians.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:08 (eighteen years ago)

on a technical note, should i honour the cow before a cheese sandwich, or possibly a sheep every time i wear a jumper?

― darragh.mac (darragh.mac), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:08 (eighteen years ago)

Before I put on a pair of jeans I hug a five-pound sack of cotton.

― Stephen X (Stephen X), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:09 (eighteen years ago)

dude, honour everything

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:09 (eighteen years ago)

And yes I can run a grill but I'd rather him do it. Just like I can change a tire and brake shoes but I feel cared for when he does it instead.

Ha, I can't do any of those things!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:09 (eighteen years ago)

i'm actually serious
xpost

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

i hear that, stephen.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

This "honour" thing is a red herring (ha) - it's more like a simple awareness of where food comes from.

(And also not thinking that animals should be subjected to the horrific processes of modern intensive farming that you learn about when you go to vet school in a farming community, but that's going to get into preachy territory.)

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

I constantly honor the petroleum which provided the plastic encasing of my computers.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

knitting vegans boggle me. . .I always try to hit the 'wooly bully' protesters in Tony Hawk's Underground with my board. (also I was being snarky with the candle thing.)

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

my busy lifestyle doesn't give me time to honour everything.

isn't there a product out there i can advertise with this line?

― darragh.mac (darragh.mac), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

a hummer?

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

Girls who are strict vegetarians until they get a meat-eating boyfriend are the "Dykes until graduation" of the ethical food world!

This was the second of the three girlfriends I mentioned above -- although she didn't get a meat-eating boyfriend, she just stopped dating veggie bfs. She orders steak at restaurants now.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

this is really fun for an hour or so, before it turns into backbreaking manual labor.

ILx summed up.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:12 (eighteen years ago)

on a technical note, should i honour the cow before a cheese sandwich, or possibly a sheep every time i wear a jumper?

You should definitely pucker up before you kiss my arse is what.

Many x-posts, Ed generally OTM.

― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:13 (eighteen years ago)

btw this thread and drunk food I'm so hungry.

for lunch . .roasted veggie pizza and salad! no cowz!

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:13 (eighteen years ago)

dude, honour everything

Absolutely, everything has a price that is more than mere money. A pair of jeans has used up water resources and fertiliser, been woven and sewn, probably in a sweat shop with dubious labour practices, and caused a lot of CO2 to be emitted. there's a lot of cost in everything and a little time thing about it is a a small price to pay.

Be aware rather than honour, as kate says.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:13 (eighteen years ago)

honouring stuff/people/the world isn't hard

haha i just came from yoga class okay
i am still serious though

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:14 (eighteen years ago)

Honour the ~~Fire~~ BBQ!

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

or perhaps honour is a good word for it.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

I do see ILx as a comedy cheese sandwich.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

i'd still say 'honour' though instead of 'be aware' - the latter is too much like 'tolerate' than 'understand' (and accept, thank, etc.)
xpost

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

dude, honour everything

Seriously! OTM! Honor the tree your desk is made of! When you open a bottle of wine, don't just honor the grapes, honor the tree that the cork came from! Honor the cow whose hide is around your feet! Being mindful isn't just for hippies.

so many more xposts -- this thread moves too fuck'n fast

― Tuesdays With Morimoto (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:15 (eighteen years ago)

A well done steak is very dishonourable.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:16 (eighteen years ago)

I am going to backtrack and say, honour is the right word.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:16 (eighteen years ago)

this thread is veering into the religious

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

ah, but should i honour your arse before i kiss it?

i don't have any problem at all with the concept expressed. i just find the 'honour' aspect a trifle overbearing.

― darragh.mac (darragh.mac), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

i know it's so on topic that it's now off topic, but i'm a vegetarian in a live-in relationship with an omnivore, and it works fine. we do eat veg almost all the time at home, he eats meat that he approves of when we're out, and will sometimes cook something meaty when i'm not around. it's really not a big issue at all...

― colette (a2lette), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

amen

bah xxpost

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

i know it's so on topic that it's now off topic

hahaha

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

Seriously, if you want to honour the cow, do not overcook it!

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

I honuouour the atoms everything is made of. One-stop honneuring.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:18 (eighteen years ago)

Robyn, I'm with you! Unsurprisingly. I think "honor" is a good word here, altho thoughtfulness would work too, or a number of things. But there's more to honor than just awareness! Curtailing mindless consumption is obv the keystone of this kind of thing.

Really hippie-dippy, huh? Sign me up, I guess!

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:18 (eighteen years ago)

haha, i always honour all the atoms

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:19 (eighteen years ago)

I honour the quark, strangeness and charm

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:20 (eighteen years ago)

but okay okay, not every second of the day - there are moments for this, the honouring of things
xpost

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:20 (eighteen years ago)

I wd honor all this atmos? Hah, xp.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:21 (eighteen years ago)

hahaha

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:21 (eighteen years ago)

how many different kinds of queasy are we gonna get into here

― geoff (gcannon), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:21 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.marvelfamily.com/images/headshots/Mr.Atom.gif

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:22 (eighteen years ago)

The natives gave the cow much honour at the end of Apocalypse Now before hacking it into beefburgers.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:22 (eighteen years ago)

Every order of McNuggets should come with a portrait of the lung gunner who worked that shift at the chicken processing plant.

― Stephen X (Stephen X), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:22 (eighteen years ago)

i ate 4 pork & beef sausages for breakfast yesterday
thank you pigs and cows and wheat crumbs and sausage makers!
i wish i had some for breakfast today

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:22 (eighteen years ago)

Although actually, some sort of little diagram would be nice, so people don't think their food just falls off the McNugget Tree.

― Stephen X (Stephen X), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:23 (eighteen years ago)

I always forget, when talking on ILX about "having awareness" of where your food, clothes, petrol etc. comes from - that we're dealing with people who think it's perfectly OK to leave the central heating on all the time, overnight so that their dogs don't get cold.

I mean, it's just such a completely different worldview.

And that's what it boils down to, not whether you could date a vegetarian or not, but whether you could actually spend much time with someone who thinks that having that kind of awareness makes you a "completely hippie" or someone who thinks that *not* having that kind of awareness makes you, well, a bit of a twunt.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:23 (eighteen years ago)

'honour everything' doesn't have to mean annoying New Age cant. It can simply be an awarenmess of one's place in the global scheme of things. I do think about petroleum and plastic and cotton labor and overfarming and wool and enclosures and whatnot when I'm using platic or putting on my tshirt in the morning or looking at a new jacket. Making those kinds of connections is exactly the way my brain works.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:24 (eighteen years ago)

i like things clean. its why i shop at kroger rather than the woods.
see, to me, a lot of stuff at the grocery store seems dirty. anonymous grey stuff packed in styrofoam... i feel a lot better if i know more about where stuff comes from and how it was handled. at the shore, i can buy squid or bluefish or something that just came out of the water that day and take it home and gut/clean it myself and know that it hasn't been halfway around the world and frozen and messed with in a factory.
-- lauren (warmleatherett...) (webmail), Today 10:03 AM. (laurenp) (later)

it's my personal opinion that if people eat meat then they should be okay with the raw, messy, bloody stuff as opposed to freaking out at the sight of it.
This does frustrate me about my wife. She loves her a cheeseburger but gets all "ew ew ew" when I remind her that it used to be an animal. I pretty much agree with Ed, it's good to honor the beast you're about to eat by being willing to get its blood on your hands.
-- Tuesdays With Morimoto (crump...) (webmail), Today 10:05 AM. (Rock Hardy) (later)

call me old fashioned but where I come from denial is a girl's best friend.

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:24 (eighteen years ago)

we're dealing with people who think it's perfectly OK to leave the central heating on all the time, overnight so that their dogs don't get cold.

i'm not sure that this is at all true. i'd consider myself a fair bit away from this, and as far away on the other side from crying over the pain of the cabbage plant i'm tucking into.

― darragh.mac (darragh.mac), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:26 (eighteen years ago)

Seriously, if you want to honour the cow, do not overcook it!

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:26 (eighteen years ago)

xxp On the flipside, all this stuff about honoring the animal and handling its raw flesh is a good reminder about why I'm still vegetarian.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:27 (eighteen years ago)

It can simply be an awarenmess of one's place in the global scheme of things.

Mm. I was scanning over some rant on the right the other day -- Steyn, I think -- who was complaining about how the environmental left wanted to 'make' people use less resources, have smaller houses, etc. And this is a bad thing?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:28 (eighteen years ago)

I would love to raise sheep some day. I would love them and feed them then harvest all their wooly goodness and make yarns. Or maybe Alpacas. fiber heaven.

(also, I retract my statement about Ilx being mean. Some of Ilx be preachy, annoying, beeyatches today.)

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:28 (eighteen years ago)

I suppose you'd prefer our poor dogs to freeze to death! HONOUR THE DOG!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:29 (eighteen years ago)

Oh it's still hippie dippy in the "ALL ONE ALL ONE" Dr Bronner's soap kind of way...but it's not WRONG, for all that. Also, it makes perfect sense from a technical efficiency view: more efficient processes cost less money, use fewer resources, etc, so even the very literal-minded can find something to love in this kind of discussion.

Plus everyone has their own exceptions to the rules where they get to be purpsefully irresponsible in a life-footprint kind of way, that's what the concept of "luxury" is about! But I have a feeling we need to better understand this definition of luxury and really enjoy the fuck out of the special things we allow ourselves, rather than the consumption-crazy idea that luxury is synonymous with continuous hedonism or something.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:29 (eighteen years ago)

this thread is veering into the religious

and that would be my bingo!

― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:29 (eighteen years ago)

No one's asking you to think about the pain of the cabbage you're cutting into, but maybe just MAYBE thinking about whether that cabbage came from a farm within your own county or country or local area vs. whether it came from an intensively farmed part of Kenya where the water supply is being diverted from local to feed Western fads outside of their own natural season and flown in on jets that are fuelling global warming etc. etc. etc. (now this is REALLY preachy but still all fucking true)

...but maybe that makes me a hippie. Can I be a hippie? I think I hate far too many people to properly be a hippie.

Like I said, it's about worldview, the way you think about things.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:30 (eighteen years ago)

how do i 'honour' things? will anyone else know i've done it?

re dogs and central heating -- you need to have a very clear conscience about your own energy useage to throw this kind of bullshit around.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:31 (eighteen years ago)

maybe just MAYBE thinking about whether that cabbage came from a farm within your own county or country or local area

Yup. Thus my love of CSA these days.

As I have no pet and live in a warm area, I am a smuggo. The mites and spiders can fend for themselves.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:31 (eighteen years ago)

The ILX server is powered by our hot air.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:32 (eighteen years ago)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Water_cycle.png/800px-Water_cycle.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/TCA.svg/720px-TCA.svg.png

― TOMBO7 (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:33 (eighteen years ago)

Then again, quite a lot of Western visitors to Kenya get hacked to death by footpads so I suppose that's karma in its own way.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:33 (eighteen years ago)

yeah I don't know about you muthafuckas but I have the Water Cycle laminated and posted in my shower. top that.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:34 (eighteen years ago)

Steyn's a twat, anyway, Ned.

I fear the puritan impulse in some environmental morality. Just because you don't like eating meat or fish, isn't a good reason for other people, who do, not to. Otoh, if mindless overfishing and crazy chicken farming are polluting or cruel or whatever, there's no reason not to want to change that.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:34 (eighteen years ago)

No, I don't have a clear conscience, I'm far from perfect. I don't do NEARLY enough, and I'm wracked with guilt about it at times every time I ride a bus instead of a bicycle and buy potatoes from Sainsburys instead of a local box scheme. But at least I'm *thinking* about it, and trying to do some small things about it, instead of crowing that my personal right to be comfortable and insulated from the disgusting dirty animal bloody by-products of life are far more important than anything else on this earth. Oh god, I have just become a hand-wringing liberal Duguid, I'm off to write my column for the Guardian.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:35 (eighteen years ago)

Steyn's a twat, anyway, Ned.

Put almost too kindly.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:35 (eighteen years ago)

we should all honour the hours of otherwise possibly productive work that has been sacraficed in the making of this thread.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:37 (eighteen years ago)

and the extra keystrokes i'm spending to type "oh lol oops sacrificed"

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

I wish there weren't a law against excelsioring yourself, because I have finally become an utter self parody! Ha ha ha ha ha! Oh, how I weep bitter tears.

we should all honour the hours of otherwise possibly productive work that has been sacraficed in the making of this thread.

OTM, but OTOH, I'd be fuelling the house pricing crisis if I were working instead of burning hot air.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

how do i 'honour' things? will anyone else know i've done it?

Not unless you need them to bad enough.
(This is where I'd better retire from this thread.)

― Tuesdays With Morimoto (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

Bird 'flu to thread.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:38 (eighteen years ago)

(This is where I'd better retire from this thread.)

don't lie, you know you can't do it.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:39 (eighteen years ago)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Fifths.png

― TOMBO7 (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:39 (eighteen years ago)

SAY SOMETHING SHOUTY

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:40 (eighteen years ago)

riding a bike instead of riding a bus is just silly.

the bus runs whether you ride it or not, you're just wasting extra energy of yours that could have been put to better use whilst riding a bus. you could for example be growing some food for the homeless, or something.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:40 (eighteen years ago)

riding a bike up streatham high road lolz

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6987/yaaaaowkm9.png

― TOMBO7 (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

that we're dealing with people who think it's perfectly OK to leave the central heating on all the time, overnight so that their dogs don't get cold.

HOLY SHIT. THIS IS COMMON SENSE.

puppy needs blanky too.

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:42 (eighteen years ago)

OTM, but OTOH, I'd be fuelling the house pricing crisis if I were working instead of burning hot air.

you work for an estate agent?

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:43 (eighteen years ago)

The caninism on this thread is a disgrace.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:43 (eighteen years ago)

"looks like a stupid argument...ilx style"

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2310/davidlu9.gif

― whatever i do, it's right (teenagequiet), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:44 (eighteen years ago)

re dogs and central heating -- you need to have a very clear conscience about your own energy useage to throw this kind of bullshit around.

Nah, you just have to know which way is up. If the barrier for changing stuff requires someone who isn't at least a bit hypocritical*, nothing's going to get changed.

*I wouldn't consider it hypocrisy, unless you're actually saying "This done by you is bad, same done by me is good" - people who think they have a clear conscience on this are the ones to beware.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:44 (eighteen years ago)

The canonism on this thread is a disgrace.

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:45 (eighteen years ago)

I just got in my helicopter, and from the air this thread looks like this:

http://www.micro-blaze.com/graphics/devine.jpg

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:46 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.solarhaven.org/cold-dogX.jpg

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:46 (eighteen years ago)

the cannibalism on this thread is tasty

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:46 (eighteen years ago)

I might love this thread, it has made my morning.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:47 (eighteen years ago)

i guess i'm just not that desperate to find things i can honour. blame a repressive irish catholic childhood.

― darragh.mac (darragh.mac), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:47 (eighteen years ago)

honour yr father and yr mother!

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:47 (eighteen years ago)

but imagine all the guilt possibilities

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

as you skin them and gut them

― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:49 (eighteen years ago)

"honour yr father and yr mother!"

i was going to, but they went out for a nice walk instead.

― darragh.mac (darragh.mac), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:49 (eighteen years ago)

I'm with Laurel, I've really enjoyed this thread for the most part. It's got some things straight in my head, both about mine own prejudices and the general culture divide on ILX. Everything else is just litter.

FWIW, one thing that would be an UTTER UTTER relationship dealbreaker would be finding out that my prospective partner littered. Far more than veg/non-veg.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

I guess that rules cats and dogs out then.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:51 (eighteen years ago)

Oh the lulz.

― N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:51 (eighteen years ago)

'take care of the pennies...' i guess.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:51 (eighteen years ago)

Eating meat. It's a killer.
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6987/yaaaaowkm9.png

― fuck yr face blogger (a_p), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

littered

FuckingOTM

― Ste (Fuzzy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

honour yr father and yr mother!

At last! Something on this thread I've got a great reggae version of!

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

if only the chinese government had promulgated the idea of making UTTER UTTER dealbreakers out of relatively minor aspects of personal behaviour, they would never have needed their meany law.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

I've got a great reggae version of Meany Law - Twinkle Brothers, 1979!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:54 (eighteen years ago)

Well, if you consider littering to be "relatively minor aspects of personal behaviour" rather than an utter lack of disrespect for the environment, other people, etc. then I'm hardly going to consider dating you, am I?

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:55 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.dpd.cdc.gov/dpdx/images/ParasiteImages/S-Z/Toxoplasmosis/Toxoplasma_LifeCycle.gif

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

If one person's "minor issue" wasn't another person's "major dealbreaker" then we could all just partner up with each other interchangably, and what a HORRIFYING thought that would be?

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

Then again, one of the great things about Asperger's is that I am always tidy!

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:56 (eighteen years ago)

;_;

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:57 (eighteen years ago)

Lex is also very tidy.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 16:59 (eighteen years ago)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/381843130_1b9c23ee39.jpg

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:01 (eighteen years ago)

I'm hoping that's a cover of the A House song, Tim?

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:02 (eighteen years ago)

God I love A House. Can we derail this thread by talking about how brilliant On Our Big Fat Merry-Go-Round is?

― Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:05 (eighteen years ago)

How can there be so many posts about dating vegetarians without a snarky comment about cunnilingus?

Call it nepotism, but SS otm in this thread. Also, Ms Misery is making way too much sense on here as well. I'm starting to wonder if she's really a Texan.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:05 (eighteen years ago)

No! Never mention that name again. At least, not when I'm around. What you do on your own time is your business, I suppose.

(It's Desmond Dekker, from about 1962, so only counts as reggae in so far as reggae has become the generic term for Jamaican pop)

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:05 (eighteen years ago)

...."penis in a llama"?

― kingfishy (kingfish 2.0), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:07 (eighteen years ago)

Nepotism!

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

Lex is also very tidy.

-- Marcello Carlin (marcellocarli...),

wrongest thing on this thread. dude leaves a trail of cds and opened envelopes wherever he stumbles

― Friendly Tree (688), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:08 (eighteen years ago)

How 20th century. It should be all password-protected downloads for him.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

are vegetarians allowed bestiality?

or wasn't that covered lately in another thread..

― darragh.mac (darragh.mac), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:10 (eighteen years ago)

i love this thread. and i thought i was going to HATE it in the beginning. ken's q is an interesting one, two of my omnivore friends say they absolutely could not date a veggie, which i don't really get... ok, one of them is french which might imply a different cultural relationship with meat, but with the other one - if yr veggie romantic interest doesn't mind you tucking in to hot dogs, kebab pizza or whatever, where's the problem?

― emsk ( emsk), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

...."penis in a llama"?

i know i know it's syphilis

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

My girlfriend's vegetarian, and we live together, so I stay veggie at home, and save the fatty meat products for when I go out to eat. It's quite simple, and it saves me from constantly cleaning trails of meat ooze in the fridge and on the kitchen tops, etc. (I've also become a much better cook as a result of being restricted to veg. Variety is important.)

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

Sorry, boring answer.

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

Ken C, you evil man.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

I'm singing "penis in a llama" to myself to the tune of Girlfriend In A Coma.

I know, I know, it's serious!

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

yes that joke was made

― Allyzay doesnt get into the monkeys or vindications (allyzay), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:17 (eighteen years ago)

oh yeah lol

― onimo (onimo), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:18 (eighteen years ago)

the reason i live in the house i live in is because the girl that moved out couldn't tolerate

(a) her roommate's rifle in the closet
(b) his propensity for things like, you know, bacon

she is an amnesty-int'l letter-writer, food coop volunteer, progressive lady who has been veggie for 20odd years. she also drives her subaru wagon to and from school every day (5 BLOCKS), even in the summer, doesn't own a bike, only uses one side of the paper she takes notes on (i sit next to her), and cranks the heat up to 74 because she's skinny and doesn't own sweaters apparently.

her ex-roommate (and my current) owns a pickup truck that he wishes he could convert to electric ("more torque, less wasteful"), is bummed that he didn't get an elk this fall so we could have delicious elk meatz, rides his bike everywhere, all year, votes democrat because his buddies are in the war, and will occasionally answer the phone "whud up my n***a???"

― grbchv! (skowly), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:19 (eighteen years ago)

for me.. i think i would much prefer to date someone non-veggie, i guess because it would imply quite a lifestyle change for me, almost every meal i eat is meat-based, and cooked at home. so if my imaginary veggie gf comes round and we want to have dinner, it's either gonna be veggie, or i'll have to magic up a two phased cooking plan, or get takeaways/dine out.

it's just a load of practicalities that do mount up - i mean, if it's a girl who is a great veggie cook and will do the cooking/teach me tasty recipes then it'd be alright. but if it means lentil based supper every night (like during ATP with veggie housemates) then.. eek!

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:20 (eighteen years ago)

I bet she was a lesbian at University, too! x-post

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:21 (eighteen years ago)

i think if my housemate has a rifle in the closet i'd move too.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:25 (eighteen years ago)

Do they cook, emsk? I am thinking it might be similar in some ways to "I don't want kids" - like it might be fun for a while, but if it all goes well they'd eventually someday have to move in, so there's a definite limit to the relationship. Though I'm making up a lot of stuff about people I don't know!

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:25 (eighteen years ago)

let's turn this into a debate about guns, too!

― grbchv! (skowly), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:27 (eighteen years ago)

I think guns would probably be a deal-killer for me.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

vegetarianism - meatz - honour the food/people/light/fire - central heating concerns - animals are people too - hypocritic roommates - guns - virgins - anal sex - comma usage

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:30 (eighteen years ago)

OMG gun control would be the true BINGO. XP to Rrob: HAH!

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:30 (eighteen years ago)

how much do you tip virgins with guns

― fuck yr face blogger (a_p), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:31 (eighteen years ago)

Someone call me when we get to the sexy part(s).

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:31 (eighteen years ago)

haha guns would really not be a deal-breaker for me! it is bad and wrong, I know, but able to shoot a gun = kinda hot.

also, just to reiterate:

dude, honour everything

rrrobyn is so my nu-favourite ilx poster.

― ampersand, spades, semicolon (cis), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:31 (eighteen years ago)

nah, nah, tipping! we almost got into that upthread.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:31 (eighteen years ago)

the gun was for HONORING ANIMALS, YOU DORKS

― grbchv! (skowly), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:32 (eighteen years ago)

With guns, it would depend on where the man lived and what the guns were used for.

If he keeps them for grouse-shooting at his estate in Wiltshire and deer-stalking at his cottage in Scotland, bring it on.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:33 (eighteen years ago)

being able to shoot a gun = kinda hott TRUE

but that's different from having a rifle in your flat? (that you presumably cannot shoot in normal circumstances, even in america?)

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:35 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, what Ken said. Wouldn't neccesarily mind hunting by itself (although most experience says someone into hunting has other deal-breaking elements) but guns kept at home for self-dense etc, no.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:36 (eighteen years ago)

If he keeps a rifle in his flat, wrapped in tinfoil for "when the revolution comes..." not so great.

(Though I have actually dated a couple of guys I suspected of that...)

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:36 (eighteen years ago)

bummed that he didn't get an elk this fall so we could have delicious elk meatz

^^^ they don't hand them out, dude

xp DO U GUYS KNOW HOW TO READ

― grbchv! (skowly), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:37 (eighteen years ago)

Shotgun in the closet = CLASSIC (unless you have kids)

Too late, Gb, we're onto the relative hotness of firearm capability, now.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:38 (eighteen years ago)

i have a firearms certification

sez so on my license.

― grbchv! (skowly), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:39 (eighteen years ago)

personally i think the deal maker/breaker lies in whether you own a copy of R Kelly's "Trapped in the closet"

I have it on order from Amazon, girls. ;-)

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:41 (eighteen years ago)

sez so on my license.

Your medical license?

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:42 (eighteen years ago)

bang "yr cured now"
/deadwood

― rrrobyn, breeze blown meadow of cheeriness (rrrobyn), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:48 (eighteen years ago)

Shotgun = hot
Pistol = dud

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 17:50 (eighteen years ago)

The real tragedy is when you meet and marry a lusty meat-eater just like yourself, and then you both hit middle age and have to stop for health reasons. Oh, the sadness! Just this morning we were looking at a travel piece that showed a big slab of North Carolina BBQ. Together, we wept.

I still cook lots of chicken, free range if I can, even though I know that's bunk—it's just a bigger cage. I love all the mysterious parts on the underside of the carcass. The little nuggets of meat that hide next to the spine. And the neck! Tastiest morsels of all!

My (one) cutting board has never made me sick. I just give it a wash after meat is cut on it. We are living in a germ-phobic age.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:05 (eighteen years ago)

1000% OTM on the "germ-phobic age". Especially if you drop the "germ" part.

Anyway, abstract vegetarianism is awesome. Ethical, responsible, sensible, healthy, etc. I'd have no problem dating an abstract vegetarian.

But most of the hardcore vegetarians I've known have been kinda fucked up. Cool in small doses, maybe, but impossible to maintain a serious relationship with. Self-obsessed. Inflexible. Hypercritical. Strict vegetarianism = puritanism: it's all about maintianing total control. Troo vegetarians maintain their moral a/o physical purity by NEVER eating meat. Neverneverneverever.

And I've learned (the hard way) to steer well clear of puritans.

Others would say the same thing about my slovenly, selfish moral compromises I suppose...

― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:09 (eighteen years ago)

Good point

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:12 (eighteen years ago)

I would never date a t-rex!

― jel -- (jel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:15 (eighteen years ago)

I love the 'oyster' on the back of roast chicken. It's invariably my 'fee' for carving.

I also keep steering my gf away from plastic cutting boards. Yeah, it's not good to put wood ones in the dishwasher but there's something anti-biotic in wood, I clean it by hand, like Beth, after every use and I abhor the feel and sound of a knife blade on the plastic cutting boards.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:16 (eighteen years ago)

My (one) cutting board has never made me sick. I just give it a wash after meat is cut on it. We are living in a germ-phobic age.

I agree with you up to a point - however, as someone who *has* been made very sick by using the same stuff as a very careless meat-eater... can you please accept the fact that vegetarians have different flora and fauna in their stomachs, (I can no longer digest meat AT ALL) and it takes a lot less dirtymeatuncleanedstuff to make us hideously ill than it does your average meat-eater.

Obviously, this is not a concern for you, as you do not live with a vegetarian.

But please do not write us off as "phobics" when we plea for a little more cleanliness in a sharing situation.

But most of the hardcore vegetarians I've known have been kinda fucked up. ...
And I've learned (the hard way) to steer well clear of puritans.

And your hardcore anti-veg stance doesn't seem a bit... "puritanical" to you?

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:18 (eighteen years ago)

I mean, I could never date or live with someone who equated "please don't make me sick" with "control freak" or "phobic". But that's just me.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:20 (eighteen years ago)

OTMFM

― sleeve (sleeve), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:21 (eighteen years ago)

Kate, I think if I shared with a vegetarian, we'd have to have separate cutting boards and knives.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:21 (eighteen years ago)

Kate, I think if I shared with a vegetarian, we'd have to have separate cutting boards and knives.

Exactly! This is common sense and consideration.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:22 (eighteen years ago)

And cast iron.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:22 (eighteen years ago)

I'd set up some sort of dividing line like on the Brady Bunch.

― N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:23 (eighteen years ago)

jewish kitchen

― emsk ( emsk), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

Fire 'n' Worms:

I ain't puritanically opposed to dating vegetarians. My cynical sense that some of the vegetarians I've dated have been delusional, narcissistic hypochondriacs is a personal judgement call that I wouldn't ever extend to all vegetarians. I'm sure a lot of you people are A-OK.

But, you know, forewarned...

― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:27 (eighteen years ago)

My cynical sense that some of the vegetarians I've dated have been delusional, narcissistic hypochondriacs is a personal judgement call that I wouldn't ever extend to all vegetarians.

But you just did, in your previous post. As a vegetarian of 10+ years I'd say it requires very little puritanism oe self-control on my part, because it's become such an ordinary part of my life I rarely even think about it.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:30 (eighteen years ago)

"oe" = "or"

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:30 (eighteen years ago)

lots of annoying posts on this thread

― GULLIBLE (Mandee), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:31 (eighteen years ago)

Tuomas:

I wasn't talking about everybody, just my own, very limited experience. I do "tend to steer well clear of puritans", for the reasons I described.

That said, I'm flexible about it.

― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

give us hell, mandee

― vita susicivus (blueski), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

what this thread needed was some ADAM FUCKING BEALES!
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8476/365942675d0fa16ff8e9hc.jpg

― fuck yr face blogger (a_p), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:36 (eighteen years ago)

It would be interesting, if this thread wasn't so convoluted, to get a count of the number of veg who said they would or wouldn't date someone of a different persuasion vs. non-veg who would or wouldn't.

Then we'd get an idea about who's puritanical. ;-)

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:37 (eighteen years ago)

On principle, I wouldn't turn down someone because they were a vegetarian, but it would be hard 'cause I love meat and I love cooking and I love cooking with my SO.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

I'm happily married, but if I wasn't I would date a vegetarian, but NEVER a political conservative. And I would try to corrupt the vegetarian. I would succeed. They would then be a happier person, with better color.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

haha

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:41 (eighteen years ago)

would date a vegetarian, wouldn't date an asthmatic.

― GULLIBLE (Mandee), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:42 (eighteen years ago)

I would date a non-vegetarian, but NEVER a political conservative. And I would try to corrupt the non-vegetarian. I would succeed. They would then be a happier person, with a better colon.

There, fixed!

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:42 (eighteen years ago)

Are you casting aspersions at my colon, Kate?

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:43 (eighteen years ago)

Meat eaters eat vegetable kingdom foodstuffs, too!

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:44 (eighteen years ago)

i've dated and corrupted a vegetarian before! it was very satisfying. i used feminine wiles and bacon.

― bell labs (bell_labs), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:44 (eighteen years ago)

did you know they've done studies on vegetables, and when you cut them, they scream. we just cant hear it.

― GULLIBLE (Mandee), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:45 (eighteen years ago)

I know it ain't the intent, but I feel perversely honored by the Lupo pic.

Is this how trolls feel? Is this what we learn to call love?

― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

Lindsay, you're brilliant. Let's set a date for that museum trip and eat some bacon, shall we?

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

I wouldn't date anyone who looked upon my ethical decisions or lifestyle choices as things to be "corrupted" or changed. *That* to me, speaks of control freakery.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:47 (eighteen years ago)

OH LOOK A VEGETARIAN THREAD.

― John Justen goes to work like an architect (johnjusten), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:48 (eighteen years ago)

Nobody ever accused me of not being a control freak.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:48 (eighteen years ago)

yes, laurel! i'll send you an email.

― bell labs (bell_labs), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

did you know they've done studies on vegetables, and when you cut them, they scream. we just cant hear it.
-- GULLIBLE (mandeewrigh...) (webmail), Today 12:45 PM. (Mandee) (later)

we should all just eat artifical candy with fake color and fake sugar. candyism. im a candian.

― sunny successor agrees: gay dad always trumps slutty mom (katharine), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

I'm hungry now.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

I'm eating lasagna bolognese that I made on Sunday. Mmmmmmm.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

Hidden pearls: chefs dive for tender oysters concealed in the common chicken

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3190/is_43_40/ai_n16832629

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

I agree with the eating candy all the time part. Especially the Japanese kind that looks like nice-smelling erasers.

― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

He also has served them with cauliflower-brown butter mousseline and piperade; with sweet garlic, baby spinach, lemon and pine nuts; and cacciatore-style, with maitake mushrooms, Holland peppers and oven-dried tomatoes. Sometimes he confits them, skin on, and renders the skin to make it crisp. He also has rolled them in brioche bread crumbs and deep-fried them.

OH MY GOD.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:53 (eighteen years ago)

If I was to lose my husband, I would marry this chicken-oyster chef!

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

If I were a "preachy" veggie, I'd image bomb this thread with 1000 pictures of beancurd or something right now.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

My husband actually got me to eat bean curd the other day, in a stir-fry. He put chicken in it, too, so I wouldn't whine. The curd was good, though.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

Ohmigod, YUUMMMM:

http://sparklette.net/archives/427/beancurd.jpg

I had the crispiest beancurd in the world at Vietnamese restaurant last week. It was so num.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

That looks amazing!

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:58 (eighteen years ago)

If you were a preachy veg, you'd image bomb with veal pens. Beancurd is nice.

― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 18:58 (eighteen years ago)

Now that pic has made me hungry and wanna stop off in Chinatown on the way home and get some deep fried beancurd to put in my supper tonight.

See, I am not a preachy veg! I just cook nummy nummy sag paneer and stir fry and stuff until people go "ohmigod, this is so good, these prawns are lovely" and me going "prawns? but no! You are eating TVP! If it was prawns I'd be writhing on the floor in agony. But no! I am eating it happily and healthily and it is num!"

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:00 (eighteen years ago)

I would date a vegetarian, but I wouldn't be willing to only do my meat cooking and eating outside the home. I have a similar scenario to this already, since I love fish and seafood but my wife hates the smell. I cook it less often than I would like, but there are still times when I say to her, "Okay, just barricade yourself in your study with a can of Lysol, I'm about to saute some shrimp."

And I just finished an order of hot braised chicken with fried rice.

― Tuesdays With Morimoto (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:00 (eighteen years ago)

Urgh, that looks horrible (xpost, well to me anyway. I'm sure it's lovely and delicious really)

(as does most of this thread. Just so as you know, I care not a jot about what other people eat. I'm not a veggie, never have been. My brother is. He's nice. But he's asthmatic so Mandee can't have him. When he comes to stay, I sometimes make him separate food from everyone else, and sometimes we eat veggie. No-one seems to mind this arrangment.)

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:00 (eighteen years ago)

People who mistake prawns and that kind of thing are, in fairness, completely lacking in tastebuds (casting aspersions on neither food item!!)

― Allyzay doesnt get into the monkeys or vindications (allyzay), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:01 (eighteen years ago)

I'm thinking about image bombing this thread with pictures of me eating TASTY TASTY BACON.

― John Justen goes to work like an architect (johnjusten), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:03 (eighteen years ago)

The oyster never makes it past the cutting board in my house.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:03 (eighteen years ago)

I did a 180 on tofu about ten years ago. I used to hate it but now I really, really like it.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

I don't actually know what a prawn tastes like any more (have not eaten them in so long due to allergies) but this was more based on the clever presentation of the TVP-prawn thingies in this particular restaurant.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:07 (eighteen years ago)

would date a vegetarian, wouldn't date an asthmatic.

:( why you hate?

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:07 (eighteen years ago)

I'm thinking about image bombing this thread with pictures of me eating TASTY TASTY BACON.

Why would you do that? I mean, what would that accomplish? Why would you go on a thread about vegetarians just to annoy them? If you hate vegetarians that much, why not just avoid it? I have never understood the hostility of some non-veg towards veg.

And now I really want tai buffet.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:07 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

that is total chef's privilege, like the kidneys when spit roasting a lamb.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:08 (eighteen years ago)

why is this thread about vegetarians more so than omnivores? I thought it was about both.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

Tofu is great, I can't imagine a person hating it except for maybe textural based reasons. It can take on just about any flavor, extremely versatile. But, it takes some time getting used to preparing it yourself, I think, to not overdo the seasonings (or, worse, underdo it).

xpost, this isn't a thread about vegetarians, it is very specifically about vegetarians versus non-vegetarians so I'm not sure why a picture of bacon isn't any more out of place than a picture of bean curd.

― Allyzay doesnt get into the monkeys or vindications (allyzay), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:09 (eighteen years ago)

It can take on just about any flavor, extremely versatile

Yes and yes again.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:10 (eighteen years ago)

Ally OTM. Who the hell are these people that can't taste food? Clever presentation or no, surely the not-actually-being-a-prawn would give it away?

Kate, er, perhaps to present an opposing viewpoint to stop the veggies all passing out due to over-exposure to back-slapping and circle-jerking? The thread's about understanding different opinions, after all. Or should be. xpost, yeah what Sam and Ally said

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:10 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.classic-literature.co.uk/british-authors/16th-century/francis-bacon/francis-bacon.jpg

― fuck yr face blogger (a_p), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:10 (eighteen years ago)

Why, exactly, would pictures of me awash in the pleasures of bacon-eating be seen as hostile? I am merely trying to share bliss.

ALSO JOEKS ARE FUNNY SOMETIMES.

xxxxxxxxxxxposts.

― John Justen goes to work like an architect (johnjusten), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:11 (eighteen years ago)

I did a 180 on tofu about ten years ago. I used to hate it but now I really, really like it.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:17 (eighteen years ago)

x-post,
why don't they breed chickens with GINORMOUS OYSTERS?

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:17 (eighteen years ago)

xpost,

truly it is a flavour sponge

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:18 (eighteen years ago)

feminine wiles and bacon.

hit single that practically writes itself.

― chicago kevin (chicago kevin), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:18 (eighteen years ago)

Tofu is great! But any time I talk about cooking it the majority of people look at me like I was enthusing about serving acquarium droppings for dinner.

― N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:19 (eighteen years ago)

They should remain rare little delicacies, Beth, so that you treasure them more, not WalMart sized Frankenfood. Now duck breast on the other hand...

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

"I Spent My Last Ten Dollars on Birth Control and a Croissanwich"

― Tuesdays With Morimoto (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, the new lcd soundsystem is pretty good.

― fuck yr face blogger (a_p), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

Tofu is great, but the texture takes a little getting used to. I like it rolled in sesame seeds.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:23 (eighteen years ago)

Re: chicken morsels:
I also love those little liver-like nuggets that you find on the underside of a chicken breast piece, deep in the curl of the ribs. What IS that?

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:23 (eighteen years ago)

i dunno, but they're delicious.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:23 (eighteen years ago)

my ex-husband used to make these verde tofu enchiladas that were fucking incredible. I should give them a try.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

"I Spent My Last Ten Dollars on Birth Control and a Croissanwich"

Hahaha, Mr. Crump, I love you.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

And the chicken livers that you pull out of the cavity, fry quickly and eat with crunchy salt are so much better than the ones that you purchase in a container.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:27 (eighteen years ago)

i heart offal.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

Pretty much everything tastes better when it's cavity-fresh.

― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

my Vietnamese beef-noodle soup experience:
After a long while of avoiding all the soup variants that had tendon, tripe, etc, I finally asked the waiter just to bring me the one that he personally thought was the most delicious. It had all manner of parts in it, some slightly different textures that were fine, but the taste was pretty much the same as the flank-pieces-only soup.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:30 (eighteen years ago)

millions of people can't be wrong, etc, etc.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:31 (eighteen years ago)

I don't think I've ever had liver. kind of afraid.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:31 (eighteen years ago)

I like how this turned into a foodie thread.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:31 (eighteen years ago)

Still can't stomach tripe, personally, and I've tried more than a couple of times.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:32 (eighteen years ago)

tripe. . ugh. still can't do menudo.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:32 (eighteen years ago)

i thought i hated tripe until i had it at my favorite dim sum place. it's stewed with turnips and huge chunks of ginger and star anise and god knows what else, and it's incredibly delicious.

― lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:33 (eighteen years ago)

I like how this turned into a foodie thread.

And for once I'm not posting my photos. But I could...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

"It had all manner of parts in it, some slightly different textures that were fine, but the taste was pretty much the same as the flank-pieces-only soup."

I've had the same experience. The only substantial difference is textural. I guess you have to crave the gelatinous crunch of boiled tendon or something.

But the "pork blood cube" is another matter entirely. Some Vietnamese places will offer to put one of these babies in your soup. The impact this will have on the flavor is ... considerable.

― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

I have had tripe in menudo and à la mode de Caen and I think I'm just going to leave it be.

― M. White (Miguelito), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:36 (eighteen years ago)

I will eat the tendon-y things on the end of chicken legs when I'm really into it. I start channeling my past life as a dog.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

i love stomach lining and tripe.

this is one of my favorite dishes:
http://www010.upp.so-net.ne.jp/komanecchi/shokuji/050101motsu.JPG

― Steve Shasta (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

We should get together and eat a bunch of turkey necks.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

Endouillettes?

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

Enjoy your youthful low cholesterol! We're eating chicken andouille these days, which is very good, but lacks the wonderful density of the true Cajun item.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:41 (eighteen years ago)

Kate back to thread!

― ailsa (ailsa), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

She's off having deep-fat-fried Thai appetizers! OMEGA SIX: DESTROYER OF LIFE!!!!!

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

Fried food will wreck your colon faster than any ole meat.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:50 (eighteen years ago)

Look at the complicated stomachs ruminants have to have to digest all that salad!

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:51 (eighteen years ago)

omega-6 is only bad if not balanced with omega-3

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:51 (eighteen years ago)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/381979272_1623587d50_o.png

― TOMBO7 (TOMBOT), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:51 (eighteen years ago)

(xp) I read nytimes.com too.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:52 (eighteen years ago)

That is genius. Now do it for all the other megathreads!

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

tom i kind of want to blow you right now

― geoff (gcannon), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:54 (eighteen years ago)

Food programme on rape seed oil radio 4 actually.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:54 (eighteen years ago)

TOMBOT, you rule

― Mr. Que (Mr.Que), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:54 (eighteen years ago)

I was going to praise tom but I think geoff kind of negated anything I could offer.

― Ms Misery (MissMiseryTX), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:55 (eighteen years ago)

That's so awesome.

Fuck, how embarrassing to have my pomposity quoted back to me.

― Tuesdays With Morimoto (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:56 (eighteen years ago)

hahaha we've all learned an important lesson here today

― fuck yr face blogger (a_p), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:58 (eighteen years ago)

The internet exists so people like Tom will have something to improve.

― the new sincerity (Pye Poudre), Tuesday, 6 February 2007 19:59 (eighteen years ago)

I think my reasons for being not-vegetarian are pretty good. Still, while it would actually make me sad to not have meat in the house at all, I wish I could eat less meat. I cook dinner together with roommates who get cranky if we have more than one vegetarian meal a week. (I've never lived together with a boyfriend, so that hasn't come up as an issue.) It's a matter of balance, I guess.

― Maria (Maria), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 00:08 (eighteen years ago)

Hell no.
The REVERSE would be a problem!
I won't have long conversation with Vegans. Leads to a fight eventually.
If it's purely health related, and totally personal(they don't care what others eat) I'd be fine with it.
Other than that, it's a problem.

― Lukewarm Watery G. Tornado; Less sick than before (The GZeus), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 00:20 (eighteen years ago)

Second to last panel = best.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 00:24 (eighteen years ago)

"honor the tree your desk is made of" is my favorite

― senator second p. newcastle (a_p), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 00:32 (eighteen years ago)

...*runs in*

Hi, what did I miss?

...d'oh bugger.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 00:36 (eighteen years ago)

Trayce, you've got some homework to do.

― Beth Parker (Beth Parker), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 01:00 (eighteen years ago)

Nah I actually read 95% of the thread already. I really wish I hadn't though. I want my brain back.

― Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 01:01 (eighteen years ago)

i think all non-vegetarians secretly suspect vegetarianism is a mental disorder, or phase that will pass eventually, like communism or gayness.

― darragh.mac (darragh.mac), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 01:27 (eighteen years ago)

My only wish is that vegetarian restaurants would actually serve GREAT VEGETABLES instead of tofu/curd/etc. being forced to resemble shrimp, etc.

People who use the same cutting board for meat and vegetables are insane. Period.

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 01:36 (eighteen years ago)

xpost
Nah, I get it as a health thing.
It's more healthy for some people,(well, if you're raised that way your body can probalby handle it, but people who 'convert' have high risk for nerve disorders).
As some kind of 'humane' thing I think THAT is insane. Ever see a lion eat? totally natural.

If you find the idea of eating meat gross because it was alive and moving or cute or something, that's confusing, but not crazy.

― Lukewarm Watery G. Tornado; Less sick than before (The GZeus), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 01:39 (eighteen years ago)

Gzeus, few of the vegetarians I know are opposed to eating animal products per se, rather than the way animals are treated in mass production of meat, eggs, dairy etc. In most Western countries torturing animals is prohibited by law, but that applies only to non-production animals. If you'd treat your cat or dog the way cows or chicken are treated by the industry you'd be charged for cruelty towards animals.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 07:29 (eighteen years ago)

lol DC cheerleaders

― timmy tannin (pompous), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 07:38 (eighteen years ago)

Leads to a fight eventually.

Never!

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 09:28 (eighteen years ago)

omg Tom, hehe, you are fucking great

― Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 09:35 (eighteen years ago)

Ed, other people of tripe I bring you guasteddi (or similar, guasteddi are a lot more complicated involving cheese and bread but the idea's similar)! You can pick them up from roadside grills in Sicily and have them with lime, loads of salt and a large beer then hop back in your car ready to battle the traffic once more! They are the calf's intestines wrapped around a large metal skewer, chargrilled,diced up and put into a paper cup for you to eat from. Delicious especially when you find little bits of milk within to add flavour.

I'm actually making myself feel ill with the description but it's really nice, honestly!

(TOMBOT, plz to start that blog yeah?)

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 09:36 (eighteen years ago)

There's some truth in what Tuomas says, and animal cruelty was definitely the reason I went veggie originally. I still think that the ethics of food production is hugely important, but I suspect that my whole squeamishness over meat after not touching it for years now trumps all.

― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 09:40 (eighteen years ago)

Sounds like something for the drunk food thread. Damn tasty, I hope, I really want to get to Sicily. Two nights on the train is an awfully long way though.

There was an article about something similar in the grauniad over the weekend, soup of pig offal, sounds delicious.

Incidentally the only non sea swelling animal that I have killed for my own consumption (and that of others) was a goat and it's intestines were made in to very good black pudding.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 09:42 (eighteen years ago)

The train down is fantastic. Really worth the trip. I would love to see if there was any chance of crewing down there but alas all my sailing skillzor be rusty.

A propos the original q: I'm dating a veggie. There is no issue arising I just don't cook meat when they're around and try to clean teeth or chew gum or something before planting one on them!

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 09:51 (eighteen years ago)

OK, at the risk of starting this all up again... (Though I find it somewhat disappointing that certain people on ILX seem to just view *any* volatile discussion as a "car crash".)

A question for those of you who say they'd date a vegetarian with the ultimate aim of "converting" them or "corrupting" them?

Would your feelings be different if that person's vegetarianism or food prohibitionism was based on cultural or religious reasons?

I mean, leaving aside issues of whether you would date outside your religion/race... would you be trying to convince a Jewish or Muslim boyfriend/girlfriend on the joys of bacon? Or what if your date was Hindu?

This is a genuine question - would you be more or less likely to try and change or coerce a partner's food choices if it was based on an organised religious principle, than if it were a personal ethical choice?

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 10:42 (eighteen years ago)

A question for those of you who say they'd date a vegetarian with the ultimate aim of "converting" them or "corrupting" them?

has anyone said anything like this?

"i date people to convert them to the joys of eating meat"

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 10:44 (eighteen years ago)

OK, at the risk of starting this all up again...

Lamest trolling excuse ever.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 10:44 (eighteen years ago)

has anyone said anything like this?

"i date people to convert them to the joys of eating meat"

yes! They have! Go back and read Beth Parker's and Mandee's responses about "if I dated a veggie, I would try to corrupt them with bacon and feminine wiles" - this has absolutely been stated on this thread.

If you want to answer the question, go ahead, but if you have come here just to accuse me of "trolling" then that is as much a personal thing as anything I've done on this thread.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 10:46 (eighteen years ago)

"if I dated a veggie, I would try to corrupt them with bacon and feminine wiles" != "the ultimate aim of "converting" them or "corrupting" them"

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 10:49 (eighteen years ago)

This thread had actually got interesting until the Jade Goody of ILx came back to wreck it, as usual.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 10:51 (eighteen years ago)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/381843130_1b9c23ee39.jpg

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 10:53 (eighteen years ago)

And Enrique, instead of us trying to put words in my mouth or Beth and Mandee's, how about you either answer the question I posited, or wait for them to come back and explain their statements?

Why would one go into a relationship, knowing that there was something quite fundamental about that person that you wanted to change?

It's one thing to think that they could do with superficial things like a bit of a wardrobe reform, or exposure to different bits of culture. It's one thing to accept that your partner has qualities or beliefs that may be different from your own, and live and let live. But this idea that you will "corrupt" your partner from something they believe in... (their words, not mine) is a difficult one for me.

How about a smoking partner trying to convince a non-smoking one to start? A non-drinking partner trying to make their partner stop drinking? (Or vice versa.)

In my experience, relationships across various divides (religious, political, ethical, etc.) only work if both partners accept the other one for what they are. If one partner is constantly trying to change the other, that relationship is doomed from the start.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:01 (eighteen years ago)

A question for those of you who say they'd date a vegetarian with the ultimate aim of "converting" them or "corrupting" them?

This is different from saying that omnivores only eat meat when they're out to avoid offending their vegetarian partners/for the sake of simplicity at home how, exactly? Isn't that teh vegetarian "converting" them?

or wait for them to come back and explain their statements?

At 11am, that seems a long time away.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:02 (eighteen years ago)

Yes it is, that is being accommodating a courteous to someone else's personal peccadillo, rather than them trying to stamp yours out.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:04 (eighteen years ago)

i think, kate, you should probably just play these things as it seems right on the ground. i wouldn't erect a general principle against "trying to change people" just cos that covers so many things. nagging someone to stop smoking or to start eating meat won't work or isn't a good idea, but people change each other in all sorts of ways, and so why not eating habits.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:05 (eighteen years ago)

There IS a killfile.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:07 (eighteen years ago)

Only for Firefox. I am at the mercy of Citrix and its integral IE for whatever browser they choose to give me.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:07 (eighteen years ago)

Honour the peccadillo, in a secular way.

That kind of reads like omnivores are the only ones in any kind of power here, that they're the only ones who have any choice. Vegetarians are either forced to change ("converted") or pandered to ("being accommodating").

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:08 (eighteen years ago)

Marcello, could you give it a rest for a minute? You're playing the man rather than the ball, so to speak.

Kate, I think you're experiencing a minor humor impairment here, I don't think that anyone talking about "corrupting" is actually seeing it in those terms, it's just one of the things that may change during proximity to another (as noted, it's way more likely to be the other way around).

xpost, this has largely been covered.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:09 (eighteen years ago)

No, vegetarians do have a choice, but it can be a harder one to make.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:10 (eighteen years ago)

That wording is the kind of thing that makes me uncomfortable, Aldo. All relationships involve "being accomodating" whether it is veg/non-veg separation in the kitchen or putting up with your partner's desire to make experimental soundart in the living room when you are trying to compose in the bedroom.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:11 (eighteen years ago)

Why would one go into a relationship, knowing that there was something quite fundamental about that person that you wanted to change?

Bevause you (think you) love them? And what's fundamental to one person might be incidental to another.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:12 (eighteen years ago)

So "loving someone" gives you the right to change them? That seems REALLY backwards, and not love at all. Loving someone means you accept them the way they are, foibles and things about them you don't understand, and all.

And what's fundamental to one person might be incidental to another.

*Might* being the operative word here. Hence why I brought the religious/cultural element into it. If a person makes eating choices on something as "fundamental" as their religion or culture, does that make it less incidental than if it is an ethical deicision they have reached of their own volition?

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:15 (eighteen years ago)

don't think you can generalize.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:18 (eighteen years ago)

I agree all relationships do, but you're the one trying to extrapolate what was clearly A FUNNEY into a discussion point.

Yes, all relationships involve being accommodating to each other. Or making compromises. Vegetarianism is just another lifestyle choice with no greater rights or otherwise than any other. Affording it some kind of special status, as has been implied a couple of times upthread and is implicit in the very title, is ridiculous.

You know, I thought relationships were about people. Yes, what they do and who they are is part of that - and certainly if I found out a partner was a member of the BNP, say, I might have to rethink how I felt about them and would certainly question why they hadn't been more open with me earlier - but you fall in the love with the person. If you can't accept that they are what they are, then you might as well live with the person who has the most number of correlating ticks from a dating firm.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:19 (eighteen years ago)

Nice correction of "accommodating" there aldo, and you did it without trying to make the bad speller look like a cunt.

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:23 (eighteen years ago)

So "loving someone" gives you the right to change them?

Try to. Try to. Why are you completely ignoring this word? It's kind of important! You're not dating them because they are or aren't a vegetarian.

That seems REALLY backwards, and not love at all. Loving someone means you accept them the way they are, foibles and things about them you don't understand, and all.

A commendable sentiment, which bears no relation to human life whatsoever.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:25 (eighteen years ago)

You know, reading this thread it seems to me the ones who spend an eternity analysing what makes a relationship important, whether they should in principle not be attracted to someone, or whether there are control issues are the ones who are not in happy stable relationships.

JUST A BIT OF A HINT THERE.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:28 (eighteen years ago)

clearly A FUNNEY

One person's "a funny!" is another person's offensive. I'm trying to get at why I was offended by it.

Probably because it is a loaded comment for me, when I've faced 20 years of people making such "funnies" - especially the ones who were genuinely trying to change or coerce me. I've been a veggie for 20 years, it's not a phase or a weird mental disorder I'm going through, it's something quite basic and fundamental to my personality.

But I suppose that does bring up the idea of how "set" the Personality is. The package, the person, the personality. Everyone changes and grows (or one would hope that they do) - but are there some fundamentals?

Things that are "dealbreakers" (from finding out that a person is a member of the BNP to finding out that they aren't veggie, etc.) are getting at the Fundamentals that someone is not willing to put up with - and, as clumbsily as Tuomas' original question was, it's often more about about what those things symbolise than the actual behaviour in question.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:29 (eighteen years ago)

enire thread = http://www.kittenrecords.co.uk/slypics/careworker.jpg

― teh_kit never wins (g-kit), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:30 (eighteen years ago)

not really, kit, just the everyday cut and thrust of ilx really.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:31 (eighteen years ago)

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:32 (eighteen years ago)

And no, I can't spell. But I don't view mild dyslexia as a character fault.

And no, I'm not in a happy relationship. I might go so far as to say I've never been in a happy relationship. But what made those relationships unhappy was NOT whether the partner was or was not vegetarian, but how much the partners in question attempted to change, control, and in some cases abuse me.

This is why this is a bigger issue to me than to you people in nice happy relationships.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:32 (eighteen years ago)

do you have an opinion on the issue teh-kit?

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:32 (eighteen years ago)

"I'm a care worker" lolz

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:33 (eighteen years ago)

I am living proof that the take-them-as-you-find-them, happy-go-lucky approach doesn't fucking work either.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:34 (eighteen years ago)

And no, I can't spell. But I don't view mild dyslexia as a character fault.

Would you view having mild dyslexia yet still going out of your way to point out a spelling mistake as a character fault?

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:34 (eighteen years ago)

Two points raise themselves here:

By denying the prospect of future growth and development - which is surely what all REAL loving relationships are about? - you're asking to be loved as a petrified statue; I'm the way I am, take it or leave it (xpost). You won't find many takers.

Alternatively, it's the paradox of desperately wanting to be loved but as soon as love rears its head the reflex goes: "AARGH! GET YOUR FILTHY HANDS OFF MY CLEAN AND PERFECT WORLD!" This applies to any "foible" from politics to chopping boards.

In summary, those who crave to be loved need to take into account and accept the likelihood that the right person's going to come in and leave muddy footprints in your house...and that, in metaphorical extremis, maybe that's exactly what's needed?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:35 (eighteen years ago)

two points
- beancurd/tofu are supposed to be eaten with meat.

- i can't date a vegetarian because there'll be times when i'd want my lady to eat my man meat.

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:37 (eighteen years ago)

Why would one go into a relationship, knowing that there was something quite fundamental about that person that you wanted to change?

I think this is a perfectly good question, incidentally.

But mainly because I've never been in this situation - where something is that big an issue/so difficult to work around. I wouldn't 'date' a very religious person or an extremely right-wing person. Vegetarianism seems trivial in comparison and if it's connected to the broader 'ethical lifestyle' thing which I AM down with (more and more) it'd probably be fine.

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:38 (eighteen years ago)

Marcello in OTM shocker!

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:39 (eighteen years ago)

Not really, relationships are about give and take and there are some red lines that people have. Growth and development has to be willingly participated in not foisted upon people.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:42 (eighteen years ago)

I know couples who have gotten together who are at opposite ends of the theist/atheist spectrum. What tends to happen (from what I've observed) is that one becomes slightly less of a bible bashing cunt and the other becomes slightly less of a bible burning cunt and they get drunk and have fun theological fights that never get too personal because people who love each other know there are lines you can't cross twice.

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:42 (eighteen years ago)

disdain for DUGs = distain for people who change basic fundamentals of their personality based on fashion and peer pressure.

There are some people who, instead of growing and changing their personality, tend to try on and discard entire personnas the way they would an outfit. It's one thing to do this when you are a teenager - in fact, that is part of what being an adolescent is about. It's another thing when a person is still doing this at 25, at 30. Especially if the Personna that one puts on is that of whoever your current lover is.

I have an inherent deep revulsion for this kind of shallowness. I wish I had encountered it less in my life, but I've unfortunately known a number of people like this. *especially* when you have been the model on whom that person has based their SWF style cooption on.

There are things that are important to me, emotional authenticity is one of them. Take that how you like, as this is getting very, very far off topic.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:44 (eighteen years ago)

multi x-post but to get back on topic, Ed very OTM:

relationships are about give and take and there are some red lines that people have. Growth and development has to be willingly participated in not foisted upon people.

I've been in an Onimo couple where we didn't get more accomodating of one another - the fights about religion started to become symptomatic of the fundamental lack of respect in the rest of the relationship.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:45 (eighteen years ago)

i can't imagine vegetarianism/not being a red line for someone, but i suppose i'm bigoted really.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:49 (eighteen years ago)

I'd agree fervently with Ed on that point.

K, you need to stop talking in acronyms, jargon and bullet points as though love were a Powerpoint presentation.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:51 (eighteen years ago)

Look at the log in your own eye, "Thatcherkid" "Careerist Troll".

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:52 (eighteen years ago)

distain for people who change basic fundamentals of their personality based on fashion and peer pressure.

aka TEENAGERS

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:52 (eighteen years ago)

ok that was acknowledged already my bad

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:53 (eighteen years ago)

but a lot of people still behave like teenagers at 25, 30, 35...

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:53 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah but that's not a good thing. And tuck your shirt in!

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:54 (eighteen years ago)

"you need to stop talking in acronyms, jargon and bullet points as though love were a Powerpoint presentation."

er Marcello, from your post earlier;

Two points raise themselves here:
...
In summary,

― Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:56 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.uky.edu/~addesa01/documents/Love.ppt

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:56 (eighteen years ago)

people who change basic fundamentals of their personality based on fashion and peer pressure != I suppose that does bring up the idea of how "set" the Personality is. The package, the person, the personality. Everyone changes and grows (or one would hope that they do) - but are there some fundamentals?

You seem to be assuming these are "fundamentals" for these people when, based on the empirical evidence, they were merely something that went when they "change(d) and gr(e)w". Especially since "It's one thing to do this when you are a teenager - in fact, that is part of what being an adolescent is about" is when "DUGs" do it.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:57 (eighteen years ago)

heheh, Ste, touche!

But really did we need another perfectly good thread to be laid waste? Really, take it back to the Watercooler and keep it there.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:58 (eighteen years ago)

i had never met nor heard of DUGs before reading this thread.

i guess i should keep an eye out for people who look a bit like this:

http://www.shoutluton.com/attractions/images/strawman.jpg

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 11:59 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.localarcade.com/arcade_art/data/thumbnails/2/digdug.jpg

Dig dug is great, I will have no more of this crazy denigration of him.

― N.i.c.o.l.e (Ex Leon), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:00 (eighteen years ago)

"Love is like a powerpoint presenation" by Stephen Merrit

I keep being OTM on this thread but it just get ignored. i need to become more carcrashy/trainwrecky

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:03 (eighteen years ago)

but a lot of people still behave like teenagers at 25, 30, 35...

This is the point. DUG is a phrase because it's something adolscents do, and is healthy and normal as such. Perhaps I should not be using that phrase to describe people are still using that fashion accessory approach to personality years after their adolescense has ended. My bad.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:03 (eighteen years ago)

you're switching between "you can't and shouldn't try to change people" and "she changed and I didn't want her to" - you can't have it both ways.

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:04 (eighteen years ago)

Well you can, but it only leaves one person in control of all the changing (or lack of it).

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:05 (eighteen years ago)

Ken OTM. Although possibly not about the "more trainwrecky" bit.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:05 (eighteen years ago)

No, you're absolutely failing to get the point, as usual, Onimo.

You've obviously never met someone like this, so lucky for you.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:05 (eighteen years ago)

I worded that badly. What I meant was you end up with one person refusing to change and also refusing to let someone else change.

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:06 (eighteen years ago)

you shouldn't try and change people when they want to remain adolscent

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:06 (eighteen years ago)

No, you're absolutely failing to get the point, as usual, Onimo.

oo get her

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:06 (eighteen years ago)

That still does not make sense to me, Onimo, and does not seem to describe any of the situations I've been in or am trying to describe. We're talking at utter cross purposes, and this will only make other people cross.

x-x-post.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:07 (eighteen years ago)

Two disagreements and it's "as usual"!

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:08 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, we've never spoken or disagreed or misunderstood each other anywhere else on ILX, Onimo. Clearly. [/sarcasm]

When I try to be rational and discuss things as objectively as possible, I get called a troll. When I get heated and a bit emotional, I get called a carcrash. There's no hope for me, is there? Clearly there's nothing for it but to abandon ILX and go and post cat pictures on regional threads.

(that last sentance was also humourous sarcasm if you could not tell.)

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:12 (eighteen years ago)

(that last sentance was also humourous sarcasm if you could not tell.)

Damn, you were so close to an OTM

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:13 (eighteen years ago)

The impression I'm getting, and this may be what onimo is trying to describe, is Kate expecting the "fundamentals" to be the same for other people (or at least to be as "fundamental") as they are for her. She can't see why people would be DUGs because she assumes making that kind of choice could never be "a phase or a weird mental disorder". But, you know, for some people it could be.

But I've said this twice already in the past hour or so.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:13 (eighteen years ago)

We disagreed on "your" thread. Then here.

Where else?

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:14 (eighteen years ago)

*ZING*

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:14 (eighteen years ago)

(stupid thread moving too fast!)

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:14 (eighteen years ago)

I was going to correct onimo's last misspelling in a cuntish way, but then I realised he'd just C&P'd it.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:15 (eighteen years ago)

kate i think the trick here is you have to be actually OTM when you are doing the objective/emotion thing.

(thanks aldo!!!!)

omg xxposts

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:15 (eighteen years ago)

"getting a bit heated and emotional" = "acting like a cunt"

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:16 (eighteen years ago)

marcello stop getting heating and emotional

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:18 (eighteen years ago)

I guess if I had a dog I would have to "stop getting heating."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:20 (eighteen years ago)

PLS ALL TO STOP WINDING EACH OTHER UP THIS THREAD WAS GOOD BEFORE KTHXBYE.

― emsk ( emsk), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:21 (eighteen years ago)

She can't see why people would be DUGs because she assumes making that kind of choice could never be "a phase or a weird mental disorder".

Yes, I'm sorry, but when you are an adult - late 20s and older - changing your entire personality on almost yearly basis based on who you are dating *is*, to me, some kind of weird disorder.

Or, if not a weird disorder, something so fundamentally alien and outside my red lines, that I would neither want to date or have someone in my close social group of that kind of personality.

Onimo, we have disagreed on other threads. We have different views of the world.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:22 (eighteen years ago)

I don't think there's any essential, unchangeable identity in any person. Our selves are constantly being reformed and reinterpreted in new situations. Of course there are some strands in our identities which we try to hold on more tightly, and which therefore tend to stay more permanent (such as vegetarianism for me), but I wouldn't criticize someone for turning from a "dyke" or a "vegetarian" into something else, unless I was 100% sure that they did only to please other people. How can we really tell what they're going through? What may seem to us as something done only to please one's boyfriend may be a part of a bigger change someone is going through.

I took Mandee and Beth saying they might try to convert a vegetarian boyfriend into eating meat as lighthearted jabs, not as confessions that they'd immediately try to brainwash their boyfriends. I myself would be disappointed if a girlfriend forcibly tried to make me eat meat, because I wouldn't try to convert her, and she should respect my choice like I respect hers. But I'm not saying it's impossible for such a conversion to happen. Relationships change people, and it's not necessarily about someone trying to stamp his beliefs into your head. Things such as your diet is something you tend to discuss with your partner, and maybe those discussions make you see things from a different point of view, make you broaden your horizons. That isn't necessarily brainwashing, and I see nothing wrong with it.

(numerous x-posts)

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:24 (eighteen years ago)

THIS THREAD WAS GOOD BEFORE KTHXBYE.
-- emsk (vomit.quif...), February 7th, 2007.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:25 (eighteen years ago)

when you are an adult - late 20s and older - changing your entire personality on almost yearly basis based on who you are dating

Then DUG, as you described it, doesn't apply.

"Changing your entire personality" annually is pretty weird, yes. Or it could be perceived as just being "accommodating".

PEOPLE BE ODD. Aldo's maxims for life #43721.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:27 (eighteen years ago)

I am just a broken person. I will never have a relationship again, so all I can do in relationship threads is pin-point where past relationships went wrong. :-(

-- Fire and Worms (masonicboo...) (webmail), February 7th, 2007

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:30 (eighteen years ago)

Then DUG, as you described it, doesn't apply.

Did you miss the post above where I said "my bad" that I was using an inappropriate phrase? (I was making "a funny" earlier when I said that "girls who stop being veggies when they get a boyfriend are the DUGs of the vegetarian world" but apparently it's not OK for me to make funnies or zings when it's OK for others.)

I don't think there's any essential, unchangeable identity in any person. Our selves are constantly being reformed and reinterpreted in new situations

God, this is fascinating, and should be a whole nother thread.

Because, yes, each person themselves may be a multitude of different "Selves" in varying situations. (Work Kate, Band Kate, Social Kate, etc.) But I do think that some aspects of personality do get "set" at some point, and become fundamental.

But that's for a thread about psychology, not about dating and vegetarianism.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:30 (eighteen years ago)

"It was a joke" oldest claw-back in the world!

― Kv_nol (Kv_nol), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:32 (eighteen years ago)

i wouldn't worry about sticking to subject in thread title so much, really. xpost

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:33 (eighteen years ago)

Onimo, we have disagreed on other threads. We have different views of the world.

I actually remembered another one:
you told me I couldn't have an opinion on C-sections (despite my son's life being saved by one) because, unlike you, I didn't have a womb (this despite you, to my knowledge, never really using yours).

Anyway, I'm miles off topic now: going back to vegetarianism - do any veggies here cook meat for other people? A couple I know are mixed veggie/non-veggie and their son alternates between a veggie and non-veggie diet depending on who's cooking - but the veggie will occasionally cook meat for her husband and son.

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:34 (eighteen years ago)

"Set" maybe, but not unchangeable. And to assume that when they happen to change it is always some sort of betrayal of your true self is kinda wrong, because there is no true self. But I do understand your point of view too, I'm not saying you can't criticize people who are always just accomodating their SOs. However, I don't this always the case with these so-called DUG's, there might me multiple reasons for what happens to them, and I wouldn't be too quick to judge them.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:36 (eighteen years ago)

No no, that bit where you decided that Tuomas was claiming "that vegetarianism is confined to the political left" was solid gold.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:37 (eighteen years ago)

I wouldn't cook meat for others because I don't know how to do it! I was a teenager when I became a veggie, and before that it was mostly my mom who did the cooking for me, so I've never really learned what to do with meat.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:38 (eighteen years ago)

where oh where did i get that idea? oh right -- from something "tuomas" said.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:39 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, that is exactly what I said.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:39 (eighteen years ago)

"Often correlates" is not the same as "confined to".

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:40 (eighteen years ago)

it's still a load of old rubbish.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:41 (eighteen years ago)

However, I do think it would be silly to claim that there's never any connection at all between vegetarianism and other parts of your worldview.

(x-post)

How come?

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:42 (eighteen years ago)

do you have an opinion on the issue teh-kit?

I do indeed! I don't care what anybody else eats. I would date a veggie, I would date a meat-eater. Thanks for asking!

― teh_kit never wins (g-kit), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:42 (eighteen years ago)

(this despite you, to my knowledge, never really using yours).

Medically necessitated RU-486 due to threat of miscarriage/loss of mine own life due to state of health, thanks for asking. Chosing between your own life and that of your unborn child isn't an easy decision. I had to use mine own morality and ethics to solve that one. Lots of others would gladly have removed that option from me.

I've started another thread to discuss the aspects of self and their changeability.

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:44 (eighteen years ago)

(I didn't ask, but thanks for sharing. Horrible experiences that I don't envy you aside, my point was that you denied my right to have an opinion despite me have stated a rather compelling reason for it.)

kit - are you vegetarian?

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:46 (eighteen years ago)

kind of what tuomas said, i was 13 (15 years ago) when i stopped eating meat so wouldn't really have a clue what to do... i have helped other people sometimes. i get more grossed out by it as time goes on, weirdly - when i was 16 i happily shredded half a chicken helping someone to make soup, but helping people cook bacon at the end of last year i was (gigglingly, but still) repulsed by it. i have found, though, that i really don't mind feeding my flatmate's baby meat stuff, even when it gets on my hands or whatever. but then i don't mind wiping his bum either, so perhaps he is a special case. um, i guess that's a whole other discussion.

actually, hm, there are people whose meatness is less gross to me than other people's. living with the russian was a nightmare, something in her attitude to it and how she did it (never mind the stuff she ate which was just... gaah) was really sickmaking, but the brazilian i really don't mind. it's like her meat consumption is sort of clean, or something.

― emsk ( emsk), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:46 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, I am vegetarian.

― teh_kit never wins (g-kit), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:48 (eighteen years ago)

you won't eat animals but you'll shoot faces eh?

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:54 (eighteen years ago)

My mother-in-law went veggie about 12 years ago (OMG life changing in her 40s!) but still quite happily cooks a roast for 10 carnivores on a Sunday. I find it a bit odd but then she was always more in the "red meat = not good for you" than the "meat is murder" camp - she still very occasionally eats fish.

― onimo (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:57 (eighteen years ago)

FACES R MURDER etc

Oh, hey, I can even elaborate here:
I don't eat fish, but my girlfriend does. I do all the cooking. Therefore, I cook fish, but will not eat. Possibly because I am AWESOME.
kit b DISCUSSIN.

― teh_kit never wins (g-kit), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 12:59 (eighteen years ago)

My ex-wife cooks meat for her SO, his daughter and their kid together, while cooking veggie food for herself and our two kids, and doesn't seem to have too much trouble with it. She was a vegetarian since her teens, very much from the "meat is murder" camp.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 13:00 (eighteen years ago)

kit b threadkillin*

― teh_kit never wins (g-kit), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 13:18 (eighteen years ago)

It's a mercy threadkillin. It's what she would have wanted.

― I don't know whether to play the trumpet, read a book or be a lesbian. (aldo_cow, Wednesday, 7 February 2007 13:23 (eighteen years ago)

CONTROL F

"FAKE TUOMAS"

NOT FOUND?

― Charmmy Kitty's Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (ex machina), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 13:36 (eighteen years ago)

where oh where did i get that idea? oh right -- from something "tuomas" said.
-- the original hauntology blogging crew (miltonpinsk...), February 7th, 2007.

― the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 13:37 (eighteen years ago)

fake tuomas hasn't posted for over 6 months now

― vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 13:43 (eighteen years ago)

wait, there *was* a fake tuomas...!

― Charmmy Kitty's Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (ex machina), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 13:51 (eighteen years ago)

not important, but can i clear something up? i never said anything about converting a veggie boyfriend anywhere on this thread.

― GULLIBLE (Mandee), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 13:58 (eighteen years ago)

Is this thread as bonkers as I imagine a 600-posts-in-24-hours thread about vegetarianism (read as akin to racism or sexism if you like) on ILE would be? Is anyone outed as a fascist?

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 13:59 (eighteen years ago)

We got that over quite quickly, it is actually readable. Well, in patches.

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 14:01 (eighteen years ago)

My girlfriend of five-and-a-half years is a vegetarian, btw, although over the last two years she has taken to eating fish and has even, once or twice, eaten meat (one ham sandwich in Barcelona airport when there was little other option, and one chicken-based curry a few months ago because everything else in it was great). I'd eat lamb or pork raw, given half a chance.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 14:03 (eighteen years ago)

Gah, sorry Mandee, it was actually Lindsay - your post was directly after this one, and I conflated the two. I was wrong, and I do apologise.

i've dated and corrupted a vegetarian before! it was very satisfying. i used feminine wiles and bacon.

-- bell labs (lindsay...), February 6th, 2007 6:44 PM. (bell_labs) (later)

― Fire and Worms (kate), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 14:04 (eighteen years ago)

I didn't know she was a vegetarian when we got together for the first few weeks, probably. It was never an issue. I do all the cooking and mostly do vege stuff or fish stuff these days. It's healthier for me too, I guess.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 14:07 (eighteen years ago)

Gah, go away for a day and LOOKY. I tried vegetarianism both in high school and college, got glandular fever the first time, and borderline anemic the second time, despite following all the protein combo instructions and that. Some people are not cut out for a life as a herbivore. I care about where my ingredients come from and shop accordingly, and also keep a tidy kitchen.

― suzy (suzy), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 14:44 (eighteen years ago)

OK...the veggie i converted is very happy to be eating meat now and thanks me for it. and i didn't pour bacon grease down his throat or anything. he eats meat more than i do now!

i picked up dietary things from him too...i find myself cooking kale and tempeh of my own accord, which didn't used to happen.

lacking flexibility or willingness to try things you didn't previously enjoy in a relationship is a disaster on every level.

― bell labs (bell_labs), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 15:59 (eighteen years ago)

Oh my god, this thread is still going.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:00 (eighteen years ago)

yes, just ignore the bit in the middle.

― emsk ( emsk), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:01 (eighteen years ago)

DAER VEGGIES

ITS OK U DONT WANT 2 EAT MEAT! BUT FOR GOSSAKES PLZ 2 DROP THE HOLE 'EVIN LOOKING AT MEAT MAKES ME SICK' BOLLONEY (NOT VGGI) BECUSE IT MAKES U SOUND LIKE A HYPERBLOE WEKELING NOT LIKE SOME1 COMITED 2 A SOSHUL ANDOR NUTRISHONAL CAUZE. ALSO, LAUREL AND GERRY U MAKE ME LAF. SAM POWER!

PS I TIPED THIS ON MY CELL PHONE.

REMY

― indian rope trick (bean), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:03 (eighteen years ago)

what phone do u have bro

― Charmmy Kitty's Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (ex machina), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:06 (eighteen years ago)

"If you'd treat your cat or dog the way cows or chicken are treated by the industry you'd be charged for cruelty towards animals."
I think think treating FOOD LIKE FOOD is fine. It serves a purpose. Making food. You can't kill your pets either. Can't eat them, making it legal, unless you live on a farm because of laws regarding livestock.

― Lukewarm Watery G. Tornado; Less sick than before (The GZeus), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:06 (eighteen years ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_diet

― Charmmy Kitty's Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (ex machina), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

Battery farming is a brutal crime.

― Ed (dali), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

If it's a boy, raise him vegeterian, if it's a girl, Amish.

― Fleischhutliebe! like a warm, furry meatloaf (Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:11 (eighteen years ago)

In which state? (xp)

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:17 (eighteen years ago)

I have a SLVR, Jon. The camera's broken from when a 9-year-old tackled me, trying to be funny. And the glass chips ripped my jeans and cut into the top half of my left ass-globe. They look a little bit like a star-cluster.

― indian rope trick (bean), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:19 (eighteen years ago)

"Asstrolabe"

― indian rope trick (bean), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:19 (eighteen years ago)

Big surprise. I come to ILX and lo and behold there's a thread about vegetarians. Maybe I should be asleep but Tokyo's too excting at 1:20 AM in the morning. /sarcasm

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:21 (eighteen years ago)

apparently not as exciting as ilx though.

― chicago kevin (chicago kevin), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:23 (eighteen years ago)

kit b threadkillin*

lol if only F10 works on ilx.

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:39 (eighteen years ago)

i get 'contains commands for working with the selected items' when i press F10. wtf?

― Ste (Fuzzy), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:44 (eighteen years ago)

apparently not as exciting as ilx though.

wanted to get back on the statscock. ;-)

― Nathalie (stevie nixed), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:44 (eighteen years ago)

lol n00b xpost

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:45 (eighteen years ago)

If ILE was CS:S... wow. Just... wow.

― teh_kit never wins (g-kit), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 16:46 (eighteen years ago)

Anti-Funnists Win

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 17:20 (eighteen years ago)

The troll bait has been planted

― case of the mutual heart friendship (onimo), Wednesday, 7 February 2007 17:21 (eighteen years ago)

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