OMG I WANT THIS AMAZING RONALDINHO BOTTLE OPENER

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

http://static.zooomr.com/images/2d1f0fe2fbed0f29dadc77cbba68e00527f952f5.jpg

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:52 (eighteen years ago)

you've got to be shitting me

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:52 (eighteen years ago)

I doubt anyone can find a better piece of football memorablia.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:52 (eighteen years ago)

a Luke Chadwick one would've been better.

― blueski, Thursday, 22 March 2007 15:57 (eighteen years ago)

It went on EBay for $12,000!

― The Wayward Johnny B, Thursday, 22 March 2007 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

want one!

http://i9.tinypic.com/2vwa89h.jpg

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:01 (eighteen years ago)

http://val.kolpakov.com/toothpaste/Image002.jpg

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

google search yielded some sponsored results-

Darkie Toothpaste
www.best-price.com/Toothpaste You are looking for Darkie Toothpaste? We got it - compare and save!

Buy Darkie Toothpaste
www.eBay.com Browse a huge selection now Find exactly what you want today

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:44 (eighteen years ago)

Does Ronaldinho remind you of the man from the Darkie toothpaste box?

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:50 (eighteen years ago)

That bottle opener does!

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:53 (eighteen years ago)

(hence "you've got to be shitting me")

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:55 (eighteen years ago)

i dont know who the fuck ronaldinho is but im pretty sure i saw that bottle opener at the end of 'bamboozled'

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:55 (eighteen years ago)

i dont know who the fuck ronaldinho is

I'm fairly sure even Tuomas and Lex know who Ronaldinho is.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:56 (eighteen years ago)

hahahahahaha this thread will be a winner

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

Bamboozled used that "Black man bottle opener" didn't it? He looks nothing like Ronaldinho.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:58 (eighteen years ago)

what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (eighteen years ago)

It's wearing 10, has big teeth and a ponytail - it's not Roberto Carlos is it?

Bizarrely, I found it while image searching "aranyscapat" looking for pics of the Hungary 1954 squad. wtf?!

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:00 (eighteen years ago)

I'm pretty sure I've seen a "LOL RONALDINHO BUCKTEETH LOOKS LIKE BOTTLE OPENER" comment on ILX before somewhere. Someone is going to be owed some royalties.

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:00 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.toothpasteworld.com/images/specials/hammerman.jpg

― Abbott, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

http://karikaturas.no.sapo.pt/imagens/Ronaldinho.jpg

believe it or not, that's actually a photograph.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

I must be missing something:

http://www.oceleb.com/img/ronaldinho/ronaldinho.jpg

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:05 (eighteen years ago)

I mean, not even does this look like that bottle opener:

http://www.123football.com/players/r/ronaldinho/ronaldinho10.jpg

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:07 (eighteen years ago)

His teeth aren't HUGE, but they're very pronounced because his gums are enormous.

http://worldcup.goal.com/images/10396_news.jpg

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:07 (eighteen years ago)

If it had been a Luke Chadwick/Esther Rantzen/other comedy-toothed character bottle-opener, would this be creating controversy? It's a caricature of a man with fuck-off big teeth. His colour is neither here nor there.

I want one too.

For reference, people who have no idea who Ronaldhino is:

http://www.webdelcule.com/03-04/ronaldinho-pos1.jpg

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:08 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.noulakaz.net/weblog/images/20051130-ronaldinho.jpg

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:08 (eighteen years ago)

he has the mighty chomperz, okay?

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:09 (eighteen years ago)

Um, xxxxpost. You people are weird. Ronaldhino is basically 90% teeth and gums.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:09 (eighteen years ago)

Who the fuck is Luke Chadwick? :)

ailsa otm, comedy bottle opener has nothing to do with his colour.

I think and what is saying all comedy bottle opener (and toothpaste tube) black men look alike.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:10 (eighteen years ago)

I thought people would've been used to ethan trolling by now.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:12 (eighteen years ago)

Well, it was the first thing I thought of too, fwiw.

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:16 (eighteen years ago)

by "ethan trolling" you mean dan perry expressing his revulsion circa the second post?

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

all blackface minstrel representations of black men usually do look alike

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:20 (eighteen years ago)

Ailsa was OTM. Can't say it any better.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:20 (eighteen years ago)

'if it was a white guy you wouldnt say it was racist!' well uh yeah

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:22 (eighteen years ago)

Plus Dan and Ethan's response is obviously because of the toothpaste thing. Which is something I have never seen before and I doubt many of "us britishers" have.
So yeah ok Ethan may not have been trolling. Sorry.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:22 (eighteen years ago)

darkie toothpaste was a stand-in for any number of racist products throughout us & uk & basically every other country's history, of which this bottle opener fits neatly into the history of

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:23 (eighteen years ago)

Haha, the first google hit for Luke Chadwick leads you to uglyfootballers.com

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:24 (eighteen years ago)

Kerr, are you really not seeing this? Ethan and Dan aren't responding to the toothpaste thing, they are invoking the toothpaste thing because they think it's the same thing. Which it isn't.

Please someone explain clearly to me, because I am clearly an idiot, exactly *how* this is racist.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

But ethan this bottle opener has nothing to do with his colour. It's about his teeth. Sure that's still discriminating, but if the worlds most famous footballer was white and had big teeth the opener would still have been made.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

And I think I better go and google Luke Chadwick to see who he is.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:27 (eighteen years ago)

guys, its called DARLIE now.

http://static.flickr.com/76/229972638_e2ff5efa6c_m.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:27 (eighteen years ago)

(the bottle opener I mean. And btw, I am aware of the toothpaste and several other stereotypical things of days of yore. The toothpaste issue = all black men have shiny white teeth. Wrong. The bottle-opener = Ronaldhino has great big silly teeth. Fair enough. He does. It's not saying anything about black people, or Brazilians, or Barcelona players, or men, or whatever. It's saying something about ONE MAN.)

probably an xpost

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:29 (eighteen years ago)

hahaha wow

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:30 (eighteen years ago)

Luke Chadwick = crap footballer only famous for looking like Plug off the Bash Street Kids.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:31 (eighteen years ago)

I know this will be read as trolling, but I DON'T UNDERSTAND ENGLAND.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:31 (eighteen years ago)

if the worlds most famous footballer was white and had big teeth the opener would still have been made.

Like the D. Beckham "Coin Slot" Bum Bottle Opener?

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

That toothpaste is Chinese, BTW. Just to be clear.

― Super Cub, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

Scrolls up thread...nope, no-one in the "this be racist" argument is from England. But, whatever.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

(though I don't actually know who Robert Spiralli is, so I'm quite prepared to admit I might be wrong here)

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

Scrolls up thread...nope, no-one in the "this be racist" argument is from England. But, whatever.

ailsa on Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:32 PM (46 seconds ago)

hahahah that's the point! an entire nation of tuomas!

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:34 (eighteen years ago)

(I think "this be racist." I don't understand the "this isn't racist" POV.)

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

I'm kind of shocked that you guys are denying the (unintentional probably, but undeniable) effect here. Does the bottle opener sing "Mammy" too?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:35 (eighteen years ago)

*"you guys" being the aforementioned tuomas nation

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:36 (eighteen years ago)

http://static.zooomr.com/images/2d1f0fe2fbed0f29dadc77cbba68e00527f952f5.jpg http://elrincondesergio.blogia.com/upload/20060804141125-10-ronaldinho.jpg

wow i cant even tell which one's the bottle opener & which is the real guy

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:37 (eighteen years ago)

The level of accuracy in terms of the topographical distribution of the largeness of his pronounced front teeth is admirable. i.e. the right one, as we look, is lareger, which is anatomically correct.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:39 (eighteen years ago)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/Ww_blackcaricature.jpg

i bet none of you hypocrites would think it was racist if these servants were depicted as white - what a double standard!!!!!

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:39 (eighteen years ago)

Paul Robinson Chin Ironing Board
Wayne Rooney Dog-Training Kit
Michael Carrick Diaper Dollie with Real Wets-Itself Action
Super Nail-Bashing Hammer with Michael Owen's Face (Peen End) and Gary Neville's Face (Claw End)

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

It's not saying anything about black people, or Brazilians, or Barcelona players, or men, or whatever. It's saying something about ONE MAN.

I'd agree with this, but still, in the creation of a bottle-opener that sends up Ronaldinho's teeth, they've made a product that resembles a canonical odious racist image--again, it was my first association upon seeing the bottle-opener--and I'm a little uncomfortable with images that resemble such portrayals.

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:41 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, yes, the bottle opener is exactly the same as that cartoon.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:42 (eighteen years ago)

I think it looks more like a tiny totem-pole.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:42 (eighteen years ago)

Among my family, that toothpaste was a source of dark humor and terror of what humanity has wrought. I mean the Hammerman toothpaste. The 'darlie' paste is just a giant cosmic WTF that's making me need to shower.

― Abbott, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:43 (eighteen years ago)

I join in the Britishes perplexity at this reaction. It's kind of mean to make fun of someone's teeth though.

― Super Cub, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:44 (eighteen years ago)

It's OK, he's a millionnaire and the most talented man in the world.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:44 (eighteen years ago)

okay I get that American "sensitivity" to this stuff comes from a particular history with regard to race, but it's not like England's record on that score is blemish-free! seriously, wtf?

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:45 (eighteen years ago)

Britishes make fun of the teeth? I thought they were accepting of the crazy choppers. They offered me my one dream of acceptance for my revolting teeth.

― Abbott, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

It's alright, we're having a party soon cos it's 200 years since we abolished slavery. People still sing Rule Britannia though.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

I was going to say...

― Super Cub, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:47 (eighteen years ago)

Where does this "British people have bad teeth" meme come from?

Probably my brother, actually.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:47 (eighteen years ago)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Golliwogg1.jpg
^^^ here to vouch for england's lack of any history of racist products

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:47 (eighteen years ago)

STOP CALLING US ENGLISHES!

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:48 (eighteen years ago)

sorry. I always get confused about that, actually.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

BECAUSE YOUR WAYS ARE OPAQUE TO ME

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

There was a programme last night about the 200 years thing, and one guy traced back his ancestry to his great-great(possibly another great, I forget)-grandfather, and found that he'd been sold into slavery by his own tribe/village/community/whatever, rather than kidnapped by white people. That was... interesting.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:50 (eighteen years ago)

British people make shitty music except for Billy Childish and Mark E. Smith

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

omg black africans sold slaves to white europeans THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

goodbye racial guilt!

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

It did for that chap.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

My mom mailed me this dish towel she embroidered. I have no idea what the fuck to do with it. Fucking Mormons.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f86/igotabeefpastry/towellie.jpg

― Abbott, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

Racist and a p@3dophile.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:53 (eighteen years ago)

I KNOW! 96 tears

― Abbott, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:53 (eighteen years ago)

haha, she's asking for it

― Super Cub, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:53 (eighteen years ago)

Hey guys can we all just agree to be really glad Ronaldinho isn't Japanese?

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

And underage labour!

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

B-b-b-but Nabisco, what about that guy who plays for the Japanese national team who actually is Brazillian? Ronaldinho could EASILY be Korean.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

Japanese? Explain.

― Super Cub, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:55 (eighteen years ago)

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f86/igotabeefpastry/towellie.jpg
My mom mailed me this dish towel she embroidered. I have no idea what the fuck to do with it.

Abbott on Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:52 PM (2 minutes ago)

send it to me so i can embroider U GONNA GET RAPED?

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

Hahaha okay, failure to get that joke completely invalidates the opinion of anyone who thinks this bottle opener is hilarious.

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

I'm off to edit my Magyar Aranycsapat team on pro Evo 6 to make them even more accurate in terms of appearances and tactics. THEY WERE COMMUNISTS!!!!!!

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 82,500 for racist embroidery patterns with Safesearch on. (0.17 seconds)

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, I bet that is what my mom searched for to find hers.

― Abbott, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:00 (eighteen years ago)

http://oberlin.edu/student/lfamular/headache.jpg

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:00 (eighteen years ago)

ilx.jpg is never not otm

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:01 (eighteen years ago)

http://bestmessageboardever.com/uploads/post-1486-1149307672.jpg

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:02 (eighteen years ago)

Actually I can't tell if Nick got the Japanese joke or not: Nick, did you get the Japanese joke or not?

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:07 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not entirely sure now.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:13 (eighteen years ago)

People have been taking the piss out of Ronaldinho's teeth since forever, including people who love and admire his talent. No other black man in world football that I'm aware of has anyone taking the piss out of his teeth. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. It's all about finding a flaw in a talented rich hero. I can understand people with pronounced teeth being offended by this (at the end of the day laughing about buck teeth is a playground bullying tactic) but I really don't get that people think there's a racist motive.

People have been mocking footballers and their appearance for as long as I can remember. It's all down to taking down yr idols, people with a talent and wealth that you envy.

"Englishes" look at Ronaldinho Bottle Opener and say "haha big teeth", and what looks at it and says "Golliwog" - yet he thinks other people are racist.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:14 (eighteen years ago)

I got the Japanese joke.

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:15 (eighteen years ago)

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A RACIST "MOTIVE" THERE IS A GIGANTIC BODY OF RACIST ICONOGRAPHY THAT THAT BOTTLE OPENER FITS PERFECTLY INTO JESUS CHRIST I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:15 (eighteen years ago)

"I've got this uncle, Uncle Leo - every time he sees a bottle opener with big teeth, he thinks it's anti-semitism."

there are three types of people in this life:

1. people who didn't know Ronaldinho is mostly famous for having massive big gums 'n' teeth (being the best footballer in the world comes a close second) and therefore can be forgiven for thinking the bottle opener is racist as long as they now rescind their views in light of this new information,

2. people who, in full possession of the denticular (warning: may not be real word) facts, believe this bottle opener to be racist, and who are consequently just plain wrong, and

3. people who think this is a quality item celebrating the gigantic gnashers of a certified genius, albeit one who has a tendancy to showboat instead of, you know, just getting the job done.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:17 (eighteen years ago)

they've made a product that resembles a canonical odious racist image--again, it was my first association upon seeing the bottle-opener

I have to say, it wasn't mine. I saw Ronaldinho as a bottle opener, and LMAO. Because I didn't even THINK it was in any way racist I showed it to my (black) co-worker and he also laughed too hard, again not seeing how it could be racist. Maybe it's just cos us Britishers know Ronildinho and his massive teeth better than the USers.

― The Wayward Johnny B, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:18 (eighteen years ago)

showboat

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:19 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah okay Nick if you're blissfully unaware of racist caricatures of bucktoothed east Asians (reaching their apex during a war I'm pretty sure British people remember) then it's kind of hard to take you seriously as an even-handed judge of bottle openers versus historically racist representations.

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:19 (eighteen years ago)

maybe british people are just stupid????

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:19 (eighteen years ago)

haha 'showboat' was an obvious trap there

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, that's the ticket dude. Good thinkin'!

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

I couldn't find any bottle openers for this guy:

http://www.mraksports.com/product/elway_bobble_hof.jpg

http://i4.ebayimg.com/03/i/08/cc/f7/f9_1.JPG

If any of the British don't know who John Elway is, suffice to say that it was serendipity that he played for the Denver BRONCOS.

http://www.leadingauthorities.com/images/Elway_John.jpg

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.worldcupjapankorea.com/famous-soccer-players/ronaldo/ronaldo-wallpapers/ronaldo-wallpaer.jpg

"Hi, my name is Ronaldo and I was famous for being a badly-toothed footballing genius from Brazil before he was. hence the silly bit at the end of his name."

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

MOD: PLS MAKE THIS BIT BOLD AND MAYBE RED, AND CAN IT BLINK TOO MAYBE

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A RACIST "MOTIVE" THERE IS A GIGANTIC BODY OF RACIST ICONOGRAPHY THAT THAT BOTTLE OPENER FITS PERFECTLY

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

Shit, my friend's mom brought some of that green tea favoured darlie stuff from thailand. it was awesome.

luke chadwick:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41821000/jpg/_41821338_chadwick203.jpg

UMM NOT ILLEGAL KTHX

― Will M., Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:23 (eighteen years ago)

(I should point out I find this thread more funny than offensive because WOW CULTURAL GULF)

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:24 (eighteen years ago)

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

non-shocker

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

(xpost)

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

Horseshoe, HI DERE, dan m, and what, Nabisco, ghost rider, Mr Que OTM.

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

haha omg this thread

ethan, plz 2 disable hair-trigger race alarm on innocent britisher thread about football*

*soccer

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:26 (eighteen years ago)

I can't believe Dan picked up on the 'Show Boat' reference I'd shoehorned in to signpost my hidden racist agenda. Or not so hidden, as it turns out.

http://tokyo.blog.lemonde.fr/files/mitsuhirato.thumbnail.jpg

Herge got the Japanese joke.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

OK never mind, not Dan M, I was misreading him.

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

hahahah every american is ethan, i suppose we ALL LOOK THE SAME TO YOU

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

we are all and what now

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

stop pretending like Ethan's being difficult. many, if not all, the Americans on this thread are on the same page.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

xpost with ghost rider

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

I am 'Merican and I don't think it's racist, but that just must be my middle class white male prejudice speaking right?

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

xpost So did Dr. Seuss.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~hist32/History/Seuss01.jpg

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

What I want to know is, did it really go for $12,000 on eBay? And if so, who to?

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:29 (eighteen years ago)

what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer

This sentence actually made me cry with laughter.

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:31 (eighteen years ago)

haha i was gonna paste a dr seuss cartoon earlier - 'WHAT?? HIROHITO REALLY DID HAVE YELLOW SKIN AND BUCK TEETH AND MAYBE HE WORE A COOLIE HAT ONCE...."

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:31 (eighteen years ago)

xxpost: Ronaldinho's Mum. only a mum could love those teeth.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:32 (eighteen years ago)

what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer

This ~~sentence~~ actually made me cry ~~with laughter.~~

HI DERE on Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:31 PM (5 seconds ago)

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:32 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah okay, I get why the image itself fits in with a lot of racially stereotypical stuff down the years, but as the Brits are saying, it's drawing attention (and paying AFFECTIONATE homage) to his somewhat exaggerated teeth. Race didn't enter into ANY of our (British) considerations.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:32 (eighteen years ago)

maybe you shouldnt brag about your ignorance

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:33 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.vortrupp.de/humor/pics/bullshit.jpg

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

oh wait AFFECTIONATE!! i know if i was a black 'footballer' i would cherish the paternalistic horse-racing style affection of white british 'football' fans

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

It's not ignorance, Ethan, it's an entirely different mindset.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A RACIST "MOTIVE" THERE IS A GIGANTIC BODY OF RACIST ICONOGRAPHY THAT THAT BOTTLE OPENER FITS PERFECTLY INTO JESUS CHRIST I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

horseshoe on Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:15 PM (18 minutes ago)

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A RACIST "MOTIVE" THERE IS A GIGANTIC BODY OF RACIST ICONOGRAPHY THAT THAT BOTTLE OPENER FITS PERFECTLY INTO JESUS CHRIST I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

horseshoe on Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:15 PM (18 minutes ago)
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A RACIST "MOTIVE" THERE IS A GIGANTIC BODY OF RACIST ICONOGRAPHY THAT THAT BOTTLE OPENER FITS PERFECTLY INTO JESUS CHRIST I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

horseshoe on Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:15 PM (18 minutes ago)

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.mythfolklore.net/3043mythfolklore/images/remus/watermelon.jpg

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/leniafrica2.jpg

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:36 (eighteen years ago)

^^^ nazis be paying homage

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:36 (eighteen years ago)

FITS PERFECTLY INTO = can be made to fit into if taken entirely out of context

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:37 (eighteen years ago)

I think it's somewhat laudable to be at a stage where iconography like that is tied directly to one person and is not indicative of an entire culture.

Having said that, if you can recognize WHY someone would associate that bottle opener with largely racist iconography, don't foist this disingenuous "oh but I just don't UNDERSTAND why you'd think it was racist!" bullshit on us. So far, the most cogent argument has come from Johnny B, largely because he simply said, "It never occurred to me to look at it that way" and didn't spend time lambasting people who DID associate it with darkie-deco.

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:37 (eighteen years ago)

dear britishers and americaners,

no one fucking cares

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:37 (eighteen years ago)

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:37 (eighteen years ago)

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

can someone point me to the non-racist history of stuff that looks like this bottle opener? like, anything else?

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

you can't just go through the world all willfully blind to this stuff, though, guys! it's there whether you acknowledge it or not. I kind of hate race, too, and wish I could be free of ever thinking about it again, but this is the world we inherited.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

Dan (that is who HI DERE is, right?) totally OTM x 1000.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

While I'm at it, since when was having big fucking gums a black stereotype?

WAHT

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

(ps, yeah, I'm Dan)

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

look, we here in Britain have a footballer called Peter Crouch. He is very tall (about 6'7") and very, very thin. SO MUCH is made of his awkward dimensions that he himself has accepted the joke, and indeed played up to his status with a memorable 'robot dance' goal celebration that necessitated the somewhat expansive movements of his not insubstantial limbs. There is no difference between poking good-natured fun at Peter Crouch for being lanky than there is poking good-natured fun at Ronaldinho, the best footballer on earth (Henry aside) for having big teeth. Except for you Yanks, who would presumably turn a blind eye to the Crouch baiting because he's white.

Fucking. Hell.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:39 (eighteen years ago)

This thread makes me wonder how those who are fuming with indignancy would react to stories about the really really nasty racist shit that goes on in the Euro fubol world.

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:40 (eighteen years ago)

someone should make a goatse bottle opener.

and a tubgirl bottle.

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:40 (eighteen years ago)

LJ get one clue pls.

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:41 (eighteen years ago)

Louis, the difference is a whole history of slavery and marginalisation and iconography etc etc etc.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:41 (eighteen years ago)

someone should image bomb this thread into the next world

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:41 (eighteen years ago)

and "not taking race into consideration" is a luxury not available to everyone.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:42 (eighteen years ago)

So should Ronaldinho never be caricatured because he happens to be a buck toothed black man? Isn't picking such features out the whole point of caricature? While I'm at it, since when was having big fucking gums a black stereotype?

onimo on Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:38 PM (3 minutes ago)

http://blog.turntablelab.com/images/ronaldinho.jpg

OMG LOOK A RECOGNIZABLE SCULPTURE OF RONALDINHO THAT ISNT A DARKIE STEREOTYPE HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:43 (eighteen years ago)

I've been drawn into defending something I'd otherwise be totally ambivalent towards, because such a pointless fuss has already been made over it. I should never have opened my mouth. Fair enough if you want to look at it in terms of a racist artefact, now let's forget about it and move on. Curtis is the most OTM poster on this thread.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:43 (eighteen years ago)

Dan M, I'm not filled with rage, but I am sort of frustratedly confused. acknowledging that an image can be racist does not automatically render one incapable of condemning instances where people get physically abused for racist reasons. you can actually acknowledge all of it.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:43 (eighteen years ago)

and it all might also interrelate.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:44 (eighteen years ago)

LJ if you agreed with me then you'd stop defending yourself and just be like "oh sorry guys I didn't realize it was racist at first, my bad, ok I'm off this thread!"

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:44 (eighteen years ago)

oh, and that sculpture is completely unrecognizable as Ronaldinho. :-P

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:44 (eighteen years ago)

Right, I posted the bottle opener because I saw it while Googling something else entirely, and thought "wtf?!" on about two levels instantly and then about another two levels within about 30 seconds. I thought it'd be interesting to see what happened if I posted it here. It has been interesting! The bottle-opener in and of itself is amusing and weird; in a wider cultural context it's either fucking vile or naive beyond comprehension. Ronaldinho is, I would wager, not purely descended from the indiginous tribes of Brazil (unlike Garrincha was, for instance [lost his virginity to a goat, wow]) - he's black, which means the only reason he's Brazillian is because his ancestors were slaves at some point and taken there.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:45 (eighteen years ago)

which you are now doing I guess

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:45 (eighteen years ago)

and what, that looks fuck all like Ronaldinho. you see, he has these big ol' teeth and jums...

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:45 (eighteen years ago)

and now i shall retire to spectate from the stands, as Curtis has commanded.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:45 (eighteen years ago)

good god am I your fucking mother?

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.casafree.com/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/21493/pele%20domina%20maradona.jpg

it's Pele doing keepy ups with Maradona! nothing to do with the thread, but a great image, nonetheless.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

someone should image bomb this thread into the next world

any image requests?

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

THAT READ SO WRONG CURTIS

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

I'm perfectly willing to accept that this item was not made with any racist motivation, that what is being caricatured is R's teeth, which is his most notable physical idiosyncracy. I don't think that the makers of it are targeting R's race any more than those who make fun of Crouch are making fun of his. BUT, because it so closely resembles hateful iconography, I wouldn't go anywhere near it--I choose not to buy this particular product, not merely because novelty bottle-openers aren't really my style, but mostly because of the racist connotations. That's understandable, right?

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

oh, and that sculpture is completely unrecognizable as Ronaldinho. :-P

unfished business on Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:44 PM (6 seconds ago)

http://blog.turntablelab.com/images/ronaldinho.jpg http://www.oceleb.com/img/ronaldinho/ronaldinho.jpg http://i9.tinypic.com/2vwa89h.jpg

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

OMG Pele & Maradona.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:47 (eighteen years ago)

While I'm at it, since when was having big fucking gums a black stereotype?

WAHT

If I was to list traditional 'darkie-deco' features I'd never think of saying 'big gums' - what I've seen has emphasised big lips, fat nostrils, shiney white eyes, shiny white teeth, afro hair, etc.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:47 (eighteen years ago)

can someone point me to the non-racist history of stuff that looks like this bottle opener? like, anything else?

Oh, look, it's a caricature of a big-toothed person with exaggeratedly big teeth.

http://www.caricaturist.co.uk/images/Tony%20Blair%201%20web.jpg

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:48 (eighteen years ago)

The mouth and eyebrows in yours are rubbish, Ethan. The eyes and nose are good.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:48 (eighteen years ago)

what G00blar said

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:48 (eighteen years ago)

onimo did you ever see 'forrest gump'

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:48 (eighteen years ago)

come on, Ailsa. not the same thing!

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

OMG LOOK A RECOGNIZABLE SCULPTURE OF RONALDINHO THAT ISNT A DARKIE STEREOTYPE HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE

and what

Sculpture != caricature.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

any image requests?

kenan on Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (1 minute ago)

sharks, bananas and mountains with sunrises or sunsets.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

That Blair thing is very close to the bottle opener. It's in the cheekbones.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

Alisa OTM

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:49 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.thebluebird.ws/images/victor%20wooten.jpg

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:50 (eighteen years ago)

guys, we all know that caricatures exist, but they don't have the same historical resonance when they're of white people! the instrumentalization of the Ronaldhino caricature to open bottles is also worth noting!

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:51 (eighteen years ago)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRGHHHHHHHH

KILL THIS THREAD NOW before it gets any worse. PLEEEASE.

p.s. curtis, what's eating you today? :-P

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:51 (eighteen years ago)

If I wanted to make this thread even more tempestuous, I'd post a caricature of Condoleezza Rice.

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:51 (eighteen years ago)

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:51 (eighteen years ago)

http://static.flickr.com/31/94907730_61ac0b8cd7.jpg

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

ban kenan's serial killer ass plz

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

as an American , posting in a crap styel and speling poorly so people think I am European of some sort , I side with those putting an end to shit - quality UK novelty gags that rely on steroetypes and charicatures , of whatever stylees. but fite the real enemy FREE PÆTER CROUCHY

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:53 (eighteen years ago)

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:54 (eighteen years ago)

h, and that sculpture is completely unrecognizable as Ronaldinho. :-P

unfished business on Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:44 PM (8 minutes ago)

Are you sure that you didn't mean :-B ?

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:57 (eighteen years ago)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA PP OMG

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:58 (eighteen years ago)

at last, some good humour to defuse the situation! some of you highly-strung types ought to learn a lesson from this. looking at you, ethan.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:58 (eighteen years ago)

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU LIMEY RETARD

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:58 (eighteen years ago)

if it's all-out war you want, i've got all evening, but i'd rather not tyvm.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:00 (eighteen years ago)

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU LIMEY RETARD

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:00 (eighteen years ago)

What have you guys got against retards?

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:01 (eighteen years ago)

looking back with the benefit of the distance time affords to that warm March day in 2007, it became clear to me that the Americans on the thread were just cranky because of the repeated references to soccer as football. this attitude, i reflected, was very likely to be related to the failure of the swastika-shaped potato snacks i tried to market in the US as 'crisps'.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:01 (eighteen years ago)

oh hell yeah

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:01 (eighteen years ago)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41707000/jpg/_41707040_crouchrobo4416300.jpg

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:03 (eighteen years ago)

Why is calling someone a "retard" acceptable, but taking the piss out of a black man for something unrelated to his colour isn't?

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:03 (eighteen years ago)

um, several xposts again.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:03 (eighteen years ago)

Why is calling someone a "retard" acceptable, but taking the piss out of a black man for something unrelated to his colour isn't?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:03 (eighteen years ago)

how is retard offensive?

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:04 (eighteen years ago)

are you saying being black is like being retarded?

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:04 (eighteen years ago)

they be takin' my Bucket

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:04 (eighteen years ago)

more to the point:

[Removed Illegal Link]

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:04 (eighteen years ago)

you've never had a bucket dude

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:04 (eighteen years ago)

Though I have vague memories from another thread that it's because some Americans are insensitive to the negative connotations of the word and the way that the mentally ill have historically been treated through stereotyping and insults.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:05 (eighteen years ago)

or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tFdTp_qanE maybe?

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:05 (eighteen years ago)

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

where do the jar jar binks jokes fit in here?

― river wolf, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

xpost again, obviously. Was in on the Tiger Woods/spaz thread?

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

HI DERE I USED THE WORD RETARD ON PURPOSE TO ELLICIT THAT REACTION YOU WON THE WORLD YOU HORRIBLE MOUTHY STUPID BITCH

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

you're the spaz, spazzo

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

not u allyzay, obv.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

alisa have you ever called someone an idiot?

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:07 (eighteen years ago)

hilariously appropriate xpost there

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:07 (eighteen years ago)

piss off limey

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:08 (eighteen years ago)

:D :D :D :D :D :D

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:08 (eighteen years ago)

idiot = comes from the greek 'idios' meaning 'one's own', i.e. one who does their own thing. this can have positive as well as negative connotations.

retard = comes from the latin tardus meaning 'slow', i.e. one who is dull-brained. this can only be negative.

(just to be picky)

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:09 (eighteen years ago)

[image]http://www.mwscomp.com/mpfc/tfgumby.gif{/image]

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:09 (eighteen years ago)

mission accomplished, dickfuck!

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:09 (eighteen years ago)

"YOU HORRIBLE MOUTHY STUPID BITCH"

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/oliphant/oa048.jpg

― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:10 (eighteen years ago)

fuck
http://www.mwscomp.com/mpfc/tfgumby.gif

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:10 (eighteen years ago)

god, i don't know how you Yanks got through the whole Tiger Woods ordeal. Black man describes self as 'spaz', USA ILXors' heads simultaneously implode!

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:11 (eighteen years ago)

OK, I'm out.

(I think)

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:11 (eighteen years ago)

we're cool with spaz, you bag of dicks

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:12 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.mwscomp.com/mpfc/tfgumby.gif

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:12 (eighteen years ago)

Perhaps you might want to read the thread, Louis? Go on, it'll be fun.

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=40&threadid=48326

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:12 (eighteen years ago)

knobjockey

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:13 (eighteen years ago)

lol, illegally delicious riposte!

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:14 (eighteen years ago)

are you saying jockeys are like knobs? YOU SIZEIST DRESSWEARER

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:14 (eighteen years ago)

British English and American English are different? OMG R U SERIOUS?

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:14 (eighteen years ago)

(that was to mr. que)

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:15 (eighteen years ago)

wake me when this thread, inevitably, comes around to tipping.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:15 (eighteen years ago)

(Ailsa you CAN read, right?)

I should actually be explicit here and say that I don't think the bottle opener is like OMG HATEFUL RACIST or anything -- it's just kind of tacky and lame and dumb-headed.

Once upon a time there was a famous black American athelete named Patrick Ewing who had large lips and huge nostrils, and I'd be willing to bet that at some point some artist was working on a caricature of him and then stopped and thought "hey, this image just so happens to kinda resemble a lot of 'hilarious' (and please note totally 'affectionate') images of Africans in this country, so I guess I'll try a new angle here that maybe doesn't" -- that level of tact and basic historical awareness is, I think, all anyone is asking for here. Given the long history of the British and Americans making goofy figurines of those amusing funny-looking folks from other places in the world, I'd like to think that most people would find the bottle opener at least a LITTLE off-putting.

Further to that, there's the thing I was kind of hinting at with the World Cup squad jokes upthread, which is that in my personal experience, I can't say I've noticed any equivalent treatments of athletes (white or black, really) in such exaggerated figurines, and certainly not in figurines intended to serve any purpose other than sitting there and bobbling their heads, and so there actually IS some question in my mind about whether someone would do anything similar with a big-toothed European player. (Like I said, I have yet to see a postbox painted as Wayne Rooney or the Beckham's Bum Bottle Opener.) But that's kind of a side issue.

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:15 (eighteen years ago)

LJ knobjockey in this country means a DJ, like John Peel, so that's not an insult.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:15 (eighteen years ago)

ISSUES WITH COLOUR

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:16 (eighteen years ago)

LJ, do you know who John Peel is, famous Britishes DJ, dead now likes the Fall, y/n?

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:16 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, Nabisco, I can read. Thanks for asking.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:16 (eighteen years ago)

ok, can you COMPREHEND what you read. i guess that's the nut of the thing.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:17 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/slam_dunk/educational_pages/educational_boxes_large/stickybear_reading_comp.jpg

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:18 (eighteen years ago)

she can comprehend, she just chooses not to. this is in the venerable tradition of what the greek call "one's own," or "being an idiot."

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:19 (eighteen years ago)

well that's not very blood diamonds of her, is it?

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:19 (eighteen years ago)

http://static.flickr.com/61/178842673_0101ed571a_m.jpg

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:20 (eighteen years ago)

of course i know who john peel is. my dad brought me up to respect him and i remember the day he died vividly. not just the fall, he was into all kinds of awesome stuff like captain beefheart, the soft machine, mogwai...

now stop patronising me, you blithering cockmaster

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:20 (eighteen years ago)

(Ailsa there was some xposting there, but I seriously don't understand why you keep saying "it was a caricature, he has big teeth, just like Tony Blair" -- as if you're completely missing what people keep repeating over and over, which is that the issue is how the caricature resembles a whole HISTORY of race-caricatures that most of us are not entirely fond of these days. It's not just the teeth, either.)

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:20 (eighteen years ago)

LJ cockmaster in this country means someone who owns chickens, so that's not an insult.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:21 (eighteen years ago)

just don't call him an owl

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:22 (eighteen years ago)

nabisco v v otm that its not just the caricature itself but also the idea of white english 'football' fans buying little trinkets & curios of black men from other countries

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:23 (eighteen years ago)

i fucking hate owls

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:23 (eighteen years ago)

b-but Tony Blair is Scottische , they've been oppressed too , surely more than the bloody afro=brasilians surely !

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:23 (eighteen years ago)

cockmaster also has a secondary connotation with a meaning akin to being a master plumber. i think the word you were looking for, on this side of the atlantic, is picklesmoocher. and i'm glad to see you're down with casual homophobia too LJ, another brilliant facet to that gem of a personality.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:23 (eighteen years ago)

No, I get that, Nabisco. Really. I just don't see *why* people are determined to read more into it and put down the people who go "haha, Ronaldhino has big teeth that would be excellent for opening bottles" and don't see beyond that. Surely seeing it for what it is, not what it might sort of unconsciously be, is a step towards getting rid of people seeing differences between a caricature of Tony Blair and a caricature of Ronaldhino.

(yeah, yeah, lolz at my hippie simplistic attitude, I know)

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:24 (eighteen years ago)

i'm laughing at your smelly armpits, hippie

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:25 (eighteen years ago)

You're clearly equipped with a parry to my every thrust, you pestilent gruntfuttock

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:25 (eighteen years ago)

A lawn jockey, also commonly known as a "Yardell" is a small statue of a man in jockey clothes, intended to be placed in yards. Most today are white jockeys, but historically African-American jockeys were commonplace. A popular lawn ornament in years past, in certain parts of the US, was a cast replica, usually about half-scale, of a black man dressed in jockey's clothing and holding up one hand as though taking the reins of a horse. The hand sometimes carries a lantern. The African-American lawn jockeys often had exaggerated features, such as big eyes with the whites painted in, large red lips, large, flat nose and curly hair. These pieces of were typically carefully painted in gaudy colours for the uniform and the flesh of the statue a uniform gloss black. These statues are considered by many to be highly offensive and racially insensitive.

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:25 (eighteen years ago)

*pestilential

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:26 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.barbaloot.com/images/cockmaster.jpg

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:26 (eighteen years ago)

I just don't see *why* people are determined to read more into it and put down the people who go "haha, Ronaldhino has big teeth that would be excellent for opening bottles" and don't see beyond that.

but i think it's so OBVIOUS to most that to not see beyond it would require ignoring it. and quietly ignoring a racist aspect to something tacitly approves it. i think that's part of it.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:26 (eighteen years ago)

you're the same person that was becky lucas, right?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:26 (eighteen years ago)

WHY ARE PEOPLE SO DETERMINED TO BE REMINDED OF A HISTORY OF CENTURIES OF UGLY HATEFUL CARICATURE, WHY CAN'T THEY SIMPLY NOT REMEMBER THAT SHIT WHEN THEY SEE SOMETHING UNCOMFORTABLY REMINISCENT OF IT

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:27 (eighteen years ago)

not you kevin, charles dickens upthread i meant

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:27 (eighteen years ago)

LJ grunttfuttock in this country means a fat elf, so congrats you finally insulted me on the third try.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:27 (eighteen years ago)

for the record, i would NOT even for a MOMENT consider buying that bottle-opener.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:27 (eighteen years ago)

TOUCHÉ

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:28 (eighteen years ago)

oh and :-D for the third-dart out-shot!

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:28 (eighteen years ago)

I don't get the distinction some people keep making between the image "in itself" and the racist baggage of the image. it is what it "might unconsciously be," to use your words, Ailsa.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:28 (eighteen years ago)

you know what kind of bottle opener is awesome? the kind that like says a funny saying when you open a bottle. i mean i wouldn't buy one but when my friends have them, it seems to discourage people from drinking because no one is interested in hearing the voice yelling at them about beer! i should get one and maybe, hey, more beer for me :D

the more you know!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:29 (eighteen years ago)

guys guys dontcha get it? alisa doesn't SEE race!

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:29 (eighteen years ago)

P.S. we've talked about this a little on the political cartoons thread -- how artists have to show a certain level of care when caricaturing certain people to make sure they don't accidentally just create race-caricatures. E.g., you don't "caricature" an Asian person's eyes so they look like some WWII-era Pacific-theater propaganda. If you're exaggerating an Israeli politician's large nose, you want to avoid drawing a guy that looks like he comes from Nazi handbooks. There's just a basic level of care and tact involved here, and some of us react when we feel that it's not being taken, or when it's being pointed -- consciously or not -- in the wrong direction. (E.g., I get annoyed by the way "terrorists" or "radical Islam" in political cartoons invariably have a foot-long nose whose tip points back toward the lips.) (Lucky for me, a deviated septum means my large nose is hooking slightly to the right instead.)

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:29 (eighteen years ago)

BUT THE DARKIE TOOTHPASTE ETC IS REMINISCENT OF OPPRESSION, I GET THAT, WHEREAS THIS IS JUST LAUGHING AT A BLOKE WITH BIG TEETH.

some xposts, no doubt.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:29 (eighteen years ago)

okay, no one is saying, you fucking British racists I bet you all have lawn jockeys! can't we just acknowledge the way race operates without people getting all guilty and then defensive?

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:30 (eighteen years ago)

his teeth aren't even really that big. i mean his gums are pretty big but really it's difficult to gum open a bottle.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:30 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.enduringvision.com/archives/hitler.jpg

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:30 (eighteen years ago)

i mean, he is no john elway

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:30 (eighteen years ago)

alisa, go buy some deodrant

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:30 (eighteen years ago)

why is darkie toothpaste reminiscent of oppression? dude is just chillin in a top hat amirite

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:31 (eighteen years ago)

Okay, okay, I get it. It's not so much that the makers of the opener don't mean it racially, or that a lot of people wouldn't interpret it racially, it's that some people could. In which case fair enough, best not to piss people off, I guess.

The next obvious question to ask is: since I didn't even consider it racist on 1st viewing, does it mean that a) I'm a blithering idiot who doesn't think of the perceived lineage of a joke when I see a joke, or b) I've come on enough (as have a lot of people) that I can see a joke about a black guy without thinking that the joke has anything to do with him being black?

It's c) both, I guess. Hmmm.

― The Wayward Johnny B, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:31 (eighteen years ago)

(it makes me sad when y'all reference the Danish Muhammad cartoon thread because it makes me think all I have ever done on ILX is post 1 million times to the exact same types of thread)

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:31 (eighteen years ago)

i keep reading that as "i've been come on enough..." and laughing, like yeah that is why i don't see race anymore too!!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:32 (eighteen years ago)

Johnney B OTM (and far more concise and eloquent than I). Want to call him a smelly Britisher for it too?

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:32 (eighteen years ago)

IT MEANS YOU ARE OH SO MUCH MORE ENLIGHTENED THAN US, OH BRAVE AND OPEN-MINDED BRITISH PERSON, PLEASE USE MORE BULLSHIT LANGUAGE ABOUT HAVING "COME ON ENOUGH" UNTIL WE SEE THE WISENESS OF YOUR HAPPY, POST-RACE, UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS WAYS

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:33 (eighteen years ago)

but i think it's so OBVIOUS to most that to not see beyond it would require ignoring it. and quietly ignoring a racist aspect to something tacitly approves it. i think that's part of it

I agree with that. Before I even read the rest of this thread, I saw the first image that Nick posted and was like "holy shit, racist much?"

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:33 (eighteen years ago)

wait johnny b comes on soccer players?

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:33 (eighteen years ago)

yay roasting

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:34 (eighteen years ago)

no no they come on him :D

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:34 (eighteen years ago)

johnny b comes on *black* soccer players

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:35 (eighteen years ago)

omg ashl3y c0l3 and jerma1n3 j3nas to thread

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:35 (eighteen years ago)

Arf, yes, you guys have evolved into blissfully ignorance of the issues. I look forward to your evolving so far past class issues that you ask homeless people if they can give you some spare change.

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:36 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.undertheradarmag.com/goldie_glcalbumcover.jpg

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:36 (eighteen years ago)

hahaha YES LET'S TALK ABOUT CLASS NOW

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:36 (eighteen years ago)

the point with this particular caricature is that Ronaldinho is, in particular and above all else, physically associated with having big teeth. this is not just a British or even European thing, as you can tell by a quick google image search. it doesn't even matter if he actually has big teeth - this is the genral public perception of him, hence the caricature. it's not just that one man who happens to have big teeth - Ronaldinho IS big teeth. the fact that the resulting caricature ends up looking similar to some old racist caricatures is a valid reason for some people not to want to own one themselves. it does not make it as bad as those racist caricatures, unless you lack the mental faculty to discriminate* between things that looks the same but aren't.

*unfortunate, but apt, verb

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:36 (eighteen years ago)

he is like a tiny kitty and i guess i like that in my shortstops
he is like a tiny kitty and i guess i like that in my shortstops
he is like a tiny kitty and i guess i like that in my shortstops
he is like a tiny kitty and i guess i like that in my shortstops
he is like a tiny kitty and i guess i like that in my shortstops
he is like a tiny kitty and i guess i like that in my shortstops
he is like a tiny kitty and i guess i like that in my shortstops
he is like a tiny kitty and i guess i like that in my shortstops

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:36 (eighteen years ago)

mr que otm

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:37 (eighteen years ago)

this thread was going somewhere when we were talking about ejaculate.

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:37 (eighteen years ago)

roberto, are you even a real person?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:37 (eighteen years ago)

i've evolved so much that i don't think twice about dropping N-bombs at naacp meetings because, hey, i just don't recognize race.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:38 (eighteen years ago)

KENAN WHY DO YOU ALWAYS WANT TO COME ON MY FACE

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:39 (eighteen years ago)

i believe i am a real person, but who really knows for sure? what did happen at the end of Blade Runner?

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:39 (eighteen years ago)

in my country , "N-bombs" are a kind of tasty candy ! Nice try , American Kevin from Chicagoland !

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:39 (eighteen years ago)

Hang on, are we in trouble now for *not* being racist?

Kevin, who the fuck on this thread has actually given any indication that they might do that?

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:39 (eighteen years ago)

*moment of realisation* fucking hell this is one of the worst things on the internet ever EVER EVER.

it's been nice shitting with you guys

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:40 (eighteen years ago)

i do not have to come on your face. go ahead, turn over.

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:40 (eighteen years ago)

i've evolved so much that i don't even have to call you limey retards, just retards

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:40 (eighteen years ago)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/421226508_7e287c479e_o.png

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:40 (eighteen years ago)

I'm British. I read the first post, didn't find it funny, but it never occurred to me that it was racist. My housemate is from LA. I showed it to her after reading the shitstorm upthread, and she immediately said, "are there white ones too?" and found it a troubling image. That was before I showed her the rest of the thread. As Johnny B said, it's not unreasonable for it genuinely not to occur to people that the image might be offensive to others. FWIW, I get the same feeling I think a lot of the Americans on this thread are getting when I see Jamaicans or Indians or Pakistanis portrayed in U.S. culture (dude in Van Wilder, Hermes from Futurama), etc. Equally, anyone claiming that they can't understand why people might find that bottle opener offensive, after they've had it explained to them, is being disingenuous.

So, what I take away from this thread: cultures be different, and thank god for the killfile. Post by unfished business deleted = mmmm.

― caek, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:41 (eighteen years ago)

i lack the mental faculty to know where (and on whom) i'm dropping a load am i retarted y/n?

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:41 (eighteen years ago)

Hang on, are we in trouble now for *not* being racist?

i don't think anyone is in *trouble* for anything. i think "being mocked" is closer to it. it's a logical extension of the "not seeing race" stance. do keep up.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:42 (eighteen years ago)

I get the same feeling I think a lot of the Americans on this thread are getting when I see Jamaicans or Indians or Pakistanis portrayed in U.S. culture (dude in Van Wilder, Hermes from Futurama), etc.

This is very otm.

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:43 (eighteen years ago)

Hey, I'm saying that not being aware of the racial issues is a bad thing, a fault on my part, and it's something maybe I (and possibly others who shared my immediate reaction) need to be more aware of. Point taken.

(I know that conceding points and showing weakness isn't the done thing on the interweb, but I'm starting a trend)

(Oh, and If we're dragging class into it, this thread will need apocalypse.jpg even more.)

― The Wayward Johnny B, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:43 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, I *do* understand why people are finding it offensive. It doesn't mean that I have to agree with the thought processes that make them do so.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:43 (eighteen years ago)

you know, if your only investment in a conversation about race is to clear your own ass, you should maybe just stay out of it.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:43 (eighteen years ago)

caek OTM except for pretending that east indians & jamaicans are glorified full citizens of Britlandia and never characterized nor stereotyped

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:44 (eighteen years ago)

i mean sometimes shit just sprays everywhere

http://www.sxc.hu/pic/m/p/pe/penywise/618618_firemen_hose_practice.jpg

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:44 (eighteen years ago)

http://fire.fws.gov/pftc/photos1999/firehose.jpg

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:44 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.csm.ornl.gov/~geist/Icons/needinput.gif

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:45 (eighteen years ago)

caek is a patronising cunt-face! :-D

srsly, though, there is a slight difference between not finding a certain caricature of an internationally-renowned sporting superstar racist, and being a member of the BNP and actively bringing race-hatred upon the lives of others. hence why nabisco's 'homeless person' analogy is melodramatic and unfair.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:45 (eighteen years ago)

hott

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:45 (eighteen years ago)

Okay you know one of the main things that's bugging the hell out of me on this thread is the idea that these sorts of caricatures somehow USED to be malicious or hateful. They weren't. They were "affectionate." The lawn jockey is "affectionate." The toothpaste guy is "affectionate." The minstrel show is "affectionate." They all say "hahaha don't you love those hilarious funny-looking darkies with their comical ignorance and simplicity and whatnot."

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:45 (eighteen years ago)

shut up shut up shut up

― deej, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:46 (eighteen years ago)

uh xps to LJ obv

― deej, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:46 (eighteen years ago)

And OTM about Hermes from Futurama, my jaw dropped when I first watched it. Then I remembered that UK!=US and that they probably didn't mean it that way.

― The Wayward Johnny B, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:46 (eighteen years ago)

I don't think caek said that, to be fair. it's a good comparison. GB/England has all this history wrt Indians/Pakistanis that might make sense of why (some) Britishers are more sensitive to portrayals of them even as they experience a lot of fucked up shit living there.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:46 (eighteen years ago)

how dare nu-ilx make it look like i think nabsico not otm.

― deej, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:46 (eighteen years ago)

caek OTM except for pretending that east indians & jamaicans are glorified full citizens of Britlandia and never characterized nor stereotyped

Of course they are, but in different ways to how it typically goes over in the U.S., which is precisely my point. I wasn't trying to defend British culture.

― caek, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:46 (eighteen years ago)

goddamn so many xposts never mind.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:47 (eighteen years ago)

srsly, though, there is a slight difference between not finding a certain caricature of an internationally-renowned sporting superstar racist, and being a member of the BNP and actively bringing race-hatred upon the lives of others. hence why nabisco's 'homeless person' analogy is melodramatic and unfair.

PS I would say this was fucking dumb as shit except at least shit MAKES SENSE.

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:47 (eighteen years ago)

GOD LOUIS YOU HAVE SAID YOU ARE LEAVING LIKE TEN TIMES NOW GO AWAY YOU ATTENTION WHORE BEFORE I MAKE KENAN COME ON YOUR FACE

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:48 (eighteen years ago)

I have been plenty involved already thank you horseshoe. I think being mocked for not seeing a race issue where I didn't think there is a race issue, and explaining why I don't think there's a race issue (and explaining that I do get why others think there is, even if it's not an issue I would have ever have thought to bring into the discussion of a pisstake out of one man's internationally recognisable teeth) is kind of ridiculous though.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:48 (eighteen years ago)

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/4/4b/200px-LOVE_JAM.jpg

oops!

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:49 (eighteen years ago)

They were "affectionate." The lawn jockey is "affectionate." The toothpaste guy is "affectionate." The minstrel show is "affectionate." They all say "hahaha don't you love those hilarious funny-looking darkies with their comical ignorance and simplicity and whatnot."

Unlike the bottle-opener, which says 'Ronaldinho is a flaming genius, yes, but he has big teeth so can be turned into a bottle-opener as a celebration of his genius'. I'd personally react with disdain and anger to all the things you list, but this is DIFFERENT.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:49 (eighteen years ago)

wow, good deal for kenan.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:49 (eighteen years ago)

DON'T MAKE KENAN DO THAT ALLY WE'D ALL HAVE TO READ ABOUT IT IN EXCRUCIATING DETAIL ON SOME THREAD THAT USED TO BE ABOUT KNITTING OR SOMETHING

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:49 (eighteen years ago)

CHRIS MORRIS : A Peter File was attacked in his car this evening but I have to say if your surname was File would you call your son Peter?

SWANCHITA HAZE : No!

CHRIS MORRIS : And look : If a child does take your fancy please remember - leave it a couple of years.

SWANCHITA HAZE : I did

CHRIS MORRIS : Goodnight.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:49 (eighteen years ago)

it looks like someone came on her face with gummy bears

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:49 (eighteen years ago)

I DON'T READ KNITTING THREADS, SO WHAT DO I CARE IF THEY SPLOOGE ALL OVER THE DAMN THING :D

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:50 (eighteen years ago)

hooray for brass eye!

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:51 (eighteen years ago)

My intention in participating in this thread was less to do with me [i[clearing my own ass[/i] and more to do with me working out why I reacted the way I did and trying to understand a counter-viewpoint. I'd have thought that was perfectly valid.

― The Wayward Johnny B, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:51 (eighteen years ago)

what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago) what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer ghost rider on Thursday, 22 March 2007 17:59 (2 hours ago)

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:51 (eighteen years ago)

it looks like someone came on her face...

:|
B|

with gummy bears

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:51 (eighteen years ago)

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOW!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:51 (eighteen years ago)

dude should maybe think about a visit to a urologist or something.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:52 (eighteen years ago)

little-known fact: caruso's sunglasses prevent him from seeing race

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:52 (eighteen years ago)

Wait a second; did Louis call someone a PESTILENTIAL GRUNTFUCK?

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:52 (eighteen years ago)

gruntfuttock

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

no he called me a fat elf. we don't talk that way in this country

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

"The Day I Woke Up and My Wang Shot Orange Marmalade: A Memoir"

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer and louis jagger and tuomas.

Three out of four ain't bad.

Anyway, come on, let's all get along.

http://www.northernbrigade.com/files/uploads/395/group-hug.jpg

― caek, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

"gruntfuck" is nearly redundant, no?

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

Hey can I also point out that I hate the way any contentious issue thread like this quickly devolves into people going "this is so stupid" and "someone image-bomb this" and exasperated jokes? I don't understand how that at all makes things any better or less stupid. (But I can see how everyone who thinks it's so stupid just clearing out and doing something more worthwhile actually would help.)

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:54 (eighteen years ago)

oh, you're no damn fun

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:54 (eighteen years ago)

hey can i just point out that the reason everyone is doing that is because you, a normally intelligent person, are arguing with stubborn, petulant, willful idiots like lj and ailsa?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:55 (eighteen years ago)

you can point it out but we won't listen!

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:55 (eighteen years ago)

but at the same time nabisco, i see your point.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:56 (eighteen years ago)

Haha I'm trying to avoid arguing with LJ, mostly -- Ailsa I never previously thought of as being a big dummy or anything!

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:56 (eighteen years ago)

(But I can see how everyone who thinks it's so stupid just clearing out and doing something more worthwhile actually would help.)

help? this is ilx not the united nations nabisco.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:56 (eighteen years ago)

it's been nice shitting with you guys

WAHT

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:56 (eighteen years ago)

nabisco otm up to the point where we wouldn't have discussed orange marmalade splooge today, cause that would have been a great loss

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:57 (eighteen years ago)

also keep in mind mabisco, you aren't going to change anyone's mind! the reason i hate these issue threads is because guess what? they never change anyone's mind, like ever.

as my better half likes to say: "You aren't going to save the world on the internet."

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:57 (eighteen years ago)

yeah a day with a gruntfuttock is not a day wasted

― gff, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:57 (eighteen years ago)

i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, and you are all causing this flame-out over absolutely fuck-all. i had little or no interest in the original thread, but you have caused it to be of interest to me with your colour-sensitive fingertips. the whole thing has been unnecessary. what i was trying to say with that sentence which nabisco couldn't make sense out of is that nothing either by us or in the original thread premise was actually racist, and your collective reaction has painted us all in a disgusting light. none of us are racist, all of us are totally against racism, yet you have manipulated the situation to make it seem as though we turn a blind eye to it. this is fucking pathetic of all of you.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:58 (eighteen years ago)

Haha I'm trying to avoid arguing with LJ, mostly

http://ilx.wh3rd.net/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=40&threadid=52391

― caek, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:58 (eighteen years ago)

No, you are going to save it in the BAR, where we spend the REST of our time talking about stupid shit.

― Laurel, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:58 (eighteen years ago)

i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this threadi would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread

modest!

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:58 (eighteen years ago)

BLAH BLAH BLAH I"M BRITISH I DRESS UP LIKE A GIRL LOAD YOUR COCK WITH GUMMYBEARS AND COME ON MY FACE

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:58 (eighteen years ago)

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

hahahahahaha XPOST

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

which is that the issue is how the caricature resembles a whole HISTORY of race-caricatures that most of us are not entirely fond of these days.

This is a fair point. What I was trying to get at was that the intention should be a key factor here (though I accept offensiveness is defined by the offended) - I don't think anyone here, or that many people in the world at large, are taking the piss out of him because he is black. It is fair to say though that many of us aren't as sensitive as we should be about portraying stereotypes, even unintentionally.

In Britain there's a rich vein of football piss takery on TV and radio, from Schmeichel's stupid red nose to Cantona's monobrow to (insert fat footballer of choice)'s big arse including every dodgy haircut along the way. Ronaldinho is as famous as they get (apart from Beckham who is good enough looking that people resorted to laughing at his voice and bad mouthing his wife) having been world footballer of the year three times and fronting numerous Nike campaigns - so he's considered fair game. If you're going to pick a feature to lambast it's kind of hard to miss those teeth.

That's not to say there isn't a problem with racism in football.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

Louis Jagger, bringing the lolz!

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:59 (eighteen years ago)

That's not to say there isn't a problem with racism in football.

There's a massive problem, but the issues are separate!

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:00 (eighteen years ago)

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:01 (eighteen years ago)

XFUCKINGPOSTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
==OO

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:01 (eighteen years ago)

really? I don't get how you can be so sure the issues are separate?

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:01 (eighteen years ago)

the issue of exaggerated representation of a black soccer player + the issue of bad treatment of black soccer players, I mean.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:02 (eighteen years ago)

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/3412/pandakw1ih5.gif

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:02 (eighteen years ago)

DO NOT ENGAGE THE CRAZYBOT

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:02 (eighteen years ago)

(xpost: Ally OTM)

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:02 (eighteen years ago)

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A RACIST "MOTIVE" THERE IS A GIGANTIC BODY OF RACIST ICONOGRAPHY THAT THAT BOTTLE OPENER FITS PERFECTLY INTO JESUS CHRIST I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

I actually wanted to do what someone else did upthread, and repeat this a dozen times in a row because--good god!--it's all that's been running through my mind for the past few minutes I've been reading this thread. I think it's gone and worn a indelible track in my mind.

Really, this is not the most egregious thing I've ever seen, but that doesn't change the fact that IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A RACIST "MOTIVE" THERE IS A GIGANTIC BODY OF RACIST ICONOGRAPHY THAT THAT BOTTLE OPENER FITS PERFECTLY INTO JESUS CHRIST I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS.

― Jesse, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:03 (eighteen years ago)

i love that lil panda duder

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:03 (eighteen years ago)

hey guys, i think michael richards kind of had a point....

i mean, if blacks were heckling whites a hundred years ago, they WOULD be hanging from a tree, you know?

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:03 (eighteen years ago)

guys, i don't really like popcorn? what do you all think of that. especially louis.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:04 (eighteen years ago)

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:05 (eighteen years ago)

the issue of exaggerated representation of a black soccer player + the issue of bad treatment of black soccer players, I mean.

jesus wept

the vast majority of racism in football involves the fans, the thuggish hooligans who go out after the match and bash up those of (all) different racial creeds. it doesn't take einstein to work out that this is completely unrelated to the issue of a caricatured [s]black[/s] soccer player.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:05 (eighteen years ago)

you know what's wild about popcorn? if you eat a bunch, and then later you get sick, you just barf liquid! THERE'S NOTHING LEFT!

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:06 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not saying there's a causal relationship. it seems curious that you're so sure there's no relationship.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:06 (eighteen years ago)

Apparently it takes an Einstein to figure out how to use [strike].

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:06 (eighteen years ago)

sorry, that didn't have the right impact, I meant:

the issue of a caricatured ~~black~~ soccer player.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:06 (eighteen years ago)

That's totally not true. That shit is pulpy.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:07 (eighteen years ago)

THANK YOU DAN PERRY YOU MAY STOP BEING A CONDESCENDING FUCK NOW

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:07 (eighteen years ago)

Louis kind of OTM about the way that people are choosing to extrapolate "I don't see taking the piss out of a man who is black as being equivalent to taking the piss out of that man's blackness" to mean "I never see race ever" = "I would be racist and not even realise it".

ailsa on Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:05 PM (25 seconds ago)

It is not "taking the piss out of a man's blackness," it is using offensive images to sell a bottle opener. Get over it.

Also, I don't see how someone can be "kind of" OTM. Especially Louis!

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:07 (eighteen years ago)

BECAUSE WHO WOULDNT WANT A BLACK DUDE TO OPEN MY BEER BOTTLES WITH HIS MOUTH AT ALL TIMES RITE

― max, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:07 (eighteen years ago)

i have never puked popcorn, you freak

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:07 (eighteen years ago)

it doesn't take einstein to work out that this is completely unrelated to the issue of a caricatured [s]black[/s] soccer player.

YOU ARE SO
SO
SO
SO
SO
FUCKING STUPID

i know this post is going to be xposted to fuck and back so i'm just going to wait a second and make it worse.

― gff, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:07 (eighteen years ago)

what if you could open bottles with your ass? that would be cool.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:07 (eighteen years ago)

if i understand the it-s-all-a-bit-racist argument at all, the fundamental point seems to be that you should avoid caricaturing features on a Black person (in this instance) where the result resembles something that has previously been used racially. although i understand the sensitivity, i think that's too extreme, and however lame the bottle opener is, the caricature is more than justified for this individual. is there more to the argument that i'm missing? if not, we won't get any further than agreeing to differ.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:08 (eighteen years ago)

Dan Perry = bane of the crazies.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:08 (eighteen years ago)

what if you could open bottles WITH YOUR MIND

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:08 (eighteen years ago)

Or even do it deliberately, as chicago kevin was suggesting.

(xpost to myself, if people are posting to roffle at me agreeing with Louis)

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:08 (eighteen years ago)

WHAT IF YOU COULD OPEN BOTTLES WITH THE END OF RACISM

― max, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:08 (eighteen years ago)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6987/yaaaaowkm9.png

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:08 (eighteen years ago)

the caricature is more than justified for this individual.

Roberto, ladies and gents: CARICATURE POLICE

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:09 (eighteen years ago)

The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. The bottler opener has NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.

*head explodes*

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:09 (eighteen years ago)

the caricature is more than justified for this individual

i mean like all chinese people have little eyes so its totally justified for me to tape my eyelids and pretend to be chinese

― max, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:09 (eighteen years ago)

but I guess I'm making more sense of the seeming gap here if racism is being defined something those "thuggish hooligans" do.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:10 (eighteen years ago)

BAN SOCCER

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:10 (eighteen years ago)

Of course this is fucking racist. Jesus.

As a British person I would like to disassociate myself with half the above posts. I'm sorry.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:10 (eighteen years ago)

defined "solely" I meant

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:10 (eighteen years ago)

CARICATURE POLICE
ARREST THIS MAN
HE HAS BIG GUMS
AND HUGE-ASS LIPS
I BET HE'S GOT NATURAL RHYTHM

THIS IS WHAT YOU GET
THIS IS WHAT YOU GET
THIS IS WHAT YOU GET
WHEN YOU MESS WITH US...

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:10 (eighteen years ago)

wilful spin and misunderstanding, much?

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:10 (eighteen years ago)

hi Matt DC, I kiss you for restoring my sense of sanity!

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:10 (eighteen years ago)

yaaaoooow.png is back :D :D :D :D :D :D

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:11 (eighteen years ago)

no, actually I'm OTM. That's your new job title.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:11 (eighteen years ago)

(hahahahahaha Matt, this is all kind of weird)

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:11 (eighteen years ago)

"I got an idea for a character named Ching Chong, and he likes to play ping pong."

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:11 (eighteen years ago)

jesus christ, you are fucking crazy, you are ALL SO FUCKING CRAZY, what the FUCK is your problem?

If I'm so stupid, why don't you take my arguments apart with convincing counter-arguments rather than resort to abuse?

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:11 (eighteen years ago)

i am curious to know where this bottle opener was made. brazilians have a lot of wierd racial shit that's all their own.

― gff, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:11 (eighteen years ago)

The weirdest thing I ever threw up was pizza, because the cheese was all stringy and hanging out of my mouth in one contiguous piece that went into my stomach. Popcorn isn't that bad.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:11 (eighteen years ago)

BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY ARGUMENTS YOU BIG BLOUSEY PONCE.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:12 (eighteen years ago)

reading lj's posts reminds me of the first rule of holes.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:12 (eighteen years ago)

the caricature is more than justified for this individual.

i'm pretty sure the big teeth thing has been established up thread. maybe to read,. perhaps?

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:12 (eighteen years ago)

because it's not worth it?

seriously if you don't get the "connection" between racist stereotyping, racist imagery, and nonwhites getting the crap kicked out of them, there's really no point.

― gff, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:13 (eighteen years ago)

shit well black people have dark skin so its pretty justified for me to paint my skin black to imitate them in a totally affectionate way right

― max, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:13 (eighteen years ago)

I mean, it's fairly obvious from the posts from LJ and Ailsa and Onimo etc that there's a big cultural divide here but the "it's not racist" argument is dubious even if the bottle opener in question was made in the UK, as opposed to say Spain. Where racial abuse of black players and grotesque racist caricatures are commonplace and even the national manager referred to Thierry Henry as "that black shit".

For FUCK'S SAKE.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:13 (eighteen years ago)

If I'm so stupid, why don't you take my arguments apart with convincing counter-arguments rather than resort to abuse?

People generally do this to arguments that are worth a response. Nonsensical bullshit tends to get nonsensical bullshit.

Or, in other words:

http://static.flickr.com/45/127227899_95fda82356.jpg

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:13 (eighteen years ago)

Please stop pasting things Louis says. I teach the likes of him at Oxford (so like him, but worse), and I get enough of his brand of witless, self-congratulatory, facile rhetoric during the working day. Please!

― caek, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

jesus christ, you are fucking crazy, you are ALL SO FUCKING CRAZY, what the FUCK is your problem?

http://photos-961.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v65/188/66/36907582/n36907582_32944961_6432.jpg

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

Louis kind of OTM about the way that people are choosing to extrapolate "I don't see taking the piss out of a man who is black as being equivalent to taking the piss out of that man's blackness" to mean "I never see race ever" = "I would be racist and not even realise it".

I think everyone who is extrapolating "I never see race ever" is doing so in response to this post:

The next obvious question to ask is: since I didn't even consider it racist on 1st viewing, does it mean that a) I'm a blithering idiot who doesn't think of the perceived lineage of a joke when I see a joke, or b) I've come on enough (as have a lot of people) that I can see a joke about a black guy without thinking that the joke has anything to do with him being black?

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

And considering Ronaldinho plays in Spain I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the case.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

wilful spin and misunderstanding, much?

i think i gave too much credit. my bad.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

I once had to explain to my wife how everyone in Europe thinks Ronaldinho is ugly. She was a little stunned, she was like "I have seen a hell of a lot worse-looking guys than him!" THEN SHE STARED AT ME FOR A LONG TIME AND I BECAME UNCOMFORTABLE.

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

maybe popcorn breaks down more completely in a vodka-based environment than in stomach acid alone.

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

ok plz mr. que don't do that ever again

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:15 (eighteen years ago)

Also, I'm disappointed that CTRL+F 'just a bit of fun' didn't reveal anything.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:15 (eighteen years ago)

i'm pretty sure the big teeth thing has been established up thread. maybe to read,. perhaps?

I'm pretty sure big teeth on a black guy is a racist caricature, which you should know about because you are ROBERTO,CARICUATURE POLICE

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:15 (eighteen years ago)

[quote][i]the caricature is more than justified for this individual [i]

i mean like all chinese people have little eyes so its totally justified for me to tape my eyelids and pretend to be chinese

max on Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:09 (2 minutes ago)[/image]

That's right, because this bottle opener is representing all black Brazilian people, or all black people, or all Brazilian people, and not just one dude kind of synonymous with having buck teeth.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:15 (eighteen years ago)

i mean like all chinese people have little eyes so its totally justified for me to tape my eyelids and pretend to be chinese

but no-one says "all black people have elongated gums giving them an overbite that could open a beer bottle". I've always associated horsey gums/teeth with white British aristocracy - but I don't think a Camilla Parker Bowles bottle opener would sell.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:16 (eighteen years ago)

OMG AILSA GIVE IT A REST!!!!

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:16 (eighteen years ago)

I think you guys would have a stronger point if that bottle opener actually HAD large gums...?

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:16 (eighteen years ago)

Yikes. I R MORAN.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:16 (eighteen years ago)

scroll down a little until you see the apposite image

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:16 (eighteen years ago)

And, since it doesn't, you aren't really arguing your case very well...?

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

but I don't think a Camilla Parker Bowles bottle opener would sell.

it would if you opened the bottle in her ass

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

Oh, and don't make me post the picture of the 'black man's cock' baby's bottle Tom and I found in a mainstream toyshop in Spain.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

If I'm so stupid...

:|
B|

...why don't you take my arguments apart with convincing counter-arguments rather than resort to abuse?

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6987/yaaaaowkm9.png

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

wait, matt, WHAT?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

okay kenan wtf

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:17 (eighteen years ago)

i.e. THE BRAZILIANS THEMSELVES draw Ronaldo and Ronaldinho with caricatured teeth.

i.e. you are all cunts.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:18 (eighteen years ago)

i.e. okay then goodbye

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:18 (eighteen years ago)

but no-one says "all black people have elongated gums giving them an overbite that could open a beer bottle"

so i'm guessing you've never heard the term "bluegum" before?

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:18 (eighteen years ago)

Also I kind of want to see that picture!

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:18 (eighteen years ago)

i want to see the black man's cock.

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:18 (eighteen years ago)

we are all cunts but at least we're not retards

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:18 (eighteen years ago)

ugh i feel violated

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:18 (eighteen years ago)

i.e. smooooooooth

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:19 (eighteen years ago)

this thread has raped my brain

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:19 (eighteen years ago)

thanks for the unnecessary subtext kenan

― Dimension 5ive, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:19 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020525/sp3.jpg

― gff, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:19 (eighteen years ago)

let's see that again

scroll down a little until you see the apposite image

i.e. THE BRAZILIANS THEMSELVES draw Ronaldo and Ronaldinho with caricatured teeth.

i.e. plz 2 understand my point?

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:19 (eighteen years ago)

Wait, why are a few of you talking about popcorn? Will someone pls embed popcorn.mid, it will make everyone feel better.

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:19 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, but LJ, that picture that the BRAZILIANS DREW THEMSELVES (omg pwned) DOES NOT resemble said hateful iconography.

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:19 (eighteen years ago)

you know, a lot of brazilians have german last names because their parents were escaped nazis :D

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:20 (eighteen years ago)

so i'm guessing you've never heard the term "bluegum" before?

No

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:20 (eighteen years ago)

personally, i'm blaming this on rio

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:20 (eighteen years ago)

you know, a lot of the people giving Louis stick need to take a looksee in the mirror. if you stare long into the abyss, etc.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:21 (eighteen years ago)

BLAME IT ON THE RAIN

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:21 (eighteen years ago)

gut reaction: i didnt think it was racist. i just thought it was ronaldinho.

considered reaction, after discussion: yea ok, not so simple as that

the divide here between brits and americans is striking. the obvious conclusion is that the 'cultural difference' at play here, shows...subconscious...unconsidered...racism prevalent in british people, that has been...worked out more in americans?

or...on the other hand...are the brits trying to defend their original position, rather than their considered opinion

― 600, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:21 (eighteen years ago)

...how do you define what 'looks like hateful iconography'? besides, a bottle-opener has to be shaped a certain way for it to function as a bottle-opener.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:21 (eighteen years ago)

Moving on the floor now babe youre a bird of paradise
Cherry ice cream smile I suppose its very nice
With a step to your left and a flick to the right
You catch the mirror way out west
You know youre something special and you look like youre the best.

Her name is rio and she dances on the sand
Just like that river twisting through a dustly land
And when she shines she really shows you all she can
Oh rio rio dancer across the rio grande

Ive seen you on the beach and Ive seen you on tv
Two of a billion stars, it means so much to me -
Like a birthday or a pretty view
But then Im sure that you know its just for you.

Her name is rio and she dances on the sand
Just like that river twisting through a dustly land
And when she shines she really shows you all she can
Oh rio rio dancer across the rio grande

Hey now (wow), look at that.
Did he nearly run you down?
At the end of the drive, the lawmen arrive,
You make me feel alive, alive, alive
Ill take my chance, cause luck is on my side
I tell you something, I know what youre thinking
I tell you something, I know what youre thinking

Her name is rio and she dances on the sand
Just like that river twisting through a dustly land
And when she shines she really shows you all she can
Oh rio rio dancer across the rio grande

Her name is rio and she dont need to understand
And I might find her it Im looking like I can
Oh rio rio hear them shout across the land
From mountains in the north down to the rio grande

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:21 (eighteen years ago)

Ah man, I knew it was my fault . . .

I don't see racial issues first != I don't see racial issues ever. It's just that in this instance, that wasn't the first thing to enter my mind. Maybe it should have, I dunno.

(if it'll make it any better, I've got massive unsightly stereotypical English teeth . . . *ducks*)

― The Wayward Johnny B, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:21 (eighteen years ago)

you know, a lot of the people giving Louis stick need to take a looksee in the mirror. if you stare long into the abyss, etc.

Roberto Spiralli on Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:21 PM (4 seconds ago)

When I look in the mirror I see

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6987/yaaaaowkm9.png

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:21 (eighteen years ago)

a bottle-opener has to be shaped a certain way for it to function as a bottle-opener.

ahahaha, okay this is my favorite argument on the thread! I'm sold.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:22 (eighteen years ago)

or...on the other hand...are the brits trying to defend their original position, rather than their considered opinion

600 on Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:21 PM (31 seconds ago)

DO THE REASONABLE BRITISH PEOPLE JUST SLEEP THE FUCK IN OR WHAT

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:22 (eighteen years ago)

besides, a bottle-opener has to be shaped a certain way for it to function as a bottle-opener.

Here's an idea -- don't make a Ronaldinho bottle-opener!

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:22 (eighteen years ago)

Johnny B, I think you are diving in front of a lot of bullets that weren't aimed at you.

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:22 (eighteen years ago)

Also I kind of want to see that picture!

Okay but YOU ASKED FOR IT

― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:23 (eighteen years ago)

LOUIS THERE IS A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN (WHITE) BRITISHERS PURCHASING BOTTLE-OPENING CARICATURE KNICK-KNACKS THAT CAN BE PLACED EASILY INTO A CONTEXT OF 'AFFECTIONATE' RACIST ICONOGRAPHY AND BRAZILIANS PAINTING CARICATURES OF NATIONAL ICONS ON WALLS

― max, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:23 (eighteen years ago)

miami style

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:23 (eighteen years ago)

wait matt what oh my god what my eyes

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:23 (eighteen years ago)

where is ss guys shaving newspaper cat jpg

― gff, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:23 (eighteen years ago)

WTF OMG WOW WTF

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:24 (eighteen years ago)

technically it's a sippy cup, not a baby's bottle. I don't really know what else to say.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:24 (eighteen years ago)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6987/yaaaaowkm9.png

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:24 (eighteen years ago)

...how do you define what 'looks like hateful iconography'? besides, a bottle-opener has to be shaped a certain way for it to function as a bottle-opener.

Fine. But I'm not trying to define the best way to make a fucking bottle-opener. I'm explaining why one image seems distasteful while another is not. Yes, you actually have to think harder than: "b-b-b-but this caricature of a black person has big teeth too!" Just some awareness of--some openness to the effects of--history, even if it's (God forbid) someone else's history, is required.

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:24 (eighteen years ago)

biggulp.jpg

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:24 (eighteen years ago)

MATT DC HAS THROROUGHLY PWNED EVERY ARGUMENT ON THIS THREAD, WOW

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:24 (eighteen years ago)

fucking spaniards

― gff, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

WHATEVER, ASSHOLES, SIPPY CUPS HAVE TO BE SHAPED A CERTAIN WAY!

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

I DON'T SEE WHAT THE PROBLEM WITH IT IS, I'VE COME ON ENOUGH TO NOT EVEN NOTICE WHAT COLOR A COCK IS

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

that is not a bottle for actual babies, surely? but for big fat hairy homos who dress up in diapers, right?

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

technically it's a sippy cup, not a baby's bottle. I don't really know what else to say.

What more IS there to say???

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

yeah i think we're all pretty much done here

― gff, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

kenan the image you just put in my head is way more disturbing than the sippy cup

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:25 (eighteen years ago)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6987/yaaaaowkm9.png

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:26 (eighteen years ago)

holy shit matt!

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:26 (eighteen years ago)

(WHITE) BRITISHERS PURCHASING BOTTLE-OPENING CARICATURE KNICK-KNACKS

How do you know it was purchased by white Britishers? It could be another Brazilian-made piece of iconic memorabilia for all we know.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:26 (eighteen years ago)

NICKALICIOUS OTM

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:26 (eighteen years ago)

Without xpost notifications I think yaaaoowww.jpg is getting better results that I intended.

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:26 (eighteen years ago)

Spain + race = wtf. This much is known to football fans.

― caek, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:26 (eighteen years ago)

man i'm just glad yaaaaow.png is back

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:26 (eighteen years ago)

or...on the other hand...are the brits trying to defend their original position, rather than their considered opinion

My considered opinion was what I posted in response to Nabisco (albeit 2342423 xposts later). I can see why people would make the connection to the offensive images that and what has kindly posted from his collection but I questioned that there was ever any intent to offend in that way. I also accept that lack of intention doesn't = lack of offense.

I reserve the right to laugh at Ronaldinho if I like and if anyone thinks that makes me racist they can kiss my black balls.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

dude, Brazilians can be racist, too! this isn't about laying blame, its just about calling it like it is!

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

What more IS there to say???

You can't see it in the photo but the slogan on the sides translates as 'once you've had black you'll never go back'.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

now, if that was specifically modelled on the penis of a black man famous throught the world for having a big cock and marketed as such, i wouldn't consider it racist. just really, really inappropriate.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

do you remember the 'boy' thread? where a british black kid was called boy, and there was cultural gulf over whether that was racist. i thought that was culturally imperialistic, to apply US standards to a non-US country, where to use that phrasing in britain isn't racist.

can we argue that the same is true of the ronaldinho figure? given the past history is gollywogs etc, im much less inclined to get behind that position, than i would be over the term 'boy'

or in other words, is the imagery and iconography of such figures a US thing, or are the racist caricatures commonplace in british history also? given the gollywogs, they probably are?

― 600, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:27 (eighteen years ago)

louis can i ask you what the fuck difference would it make if the thing was made in brazil? newsflash: BRAZIL, TOO, IS A MULTIRACIAL COUNTRY. "BRAZILIAN" IS NOT A RACE.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOW.PNG HERE

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:28 (eighteen years ago)

(Apparently)

― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:28 (eighteen years ago)

I don't think racist iconography belongs to any one nation, no.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:29 (eighteen years ago)

Gareth you could argue that Gollywogs and similar imagery have been pretty much stamped out in this country. Do you see them anywhere any more? Do you still see the equivalent images much in the US?

Obviously I'm not saying the US is de facto more racist than the UK, but perhaps that UK racism manifests itself in different ways so that images like this don't seem quite as potent?

― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:30 (eighteen years ago)

or in other words, is the imagery and iconography of such figures a US thing, or are the racist caricatures commonplace in british history also? given the gollywogs, they probably are?

Known in the UK, but not commonplace enough for it to be the first thing Britons think of, hence this thread.

― caek, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:31 (eighteen years ago)

look, I'll ACCEPT that you can see the bottle-opener as being SIMILAR to racist caricature, but my point is that it was clearly not DESIGNED to act as such. you've made me (along with a bit of help from myself in unsuccessfully trying to express my views clearly) seem like a complete tit on a thread which ought to have been of little consequence. and now i'm feeling the shame. it fucking stings.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:31 (eighteen years ago)

Depending on where you are, you can still easily find lawn jockeys (hi dere non-metropolitan US).

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:32 (eighteen years ago)

I HAS A NEW USER NAME

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:32 (eighteen years ago)

agreed. you could make the argument that britain is more racist because it hasnt worked through issues and is still insensitive to them, you could make thte argument it is less racist because it has forgotten about them

im sure both positions are right, in different ways, to different people

― 600, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:32 (eighteen years ago)

WTF IS A "SIPPY CUP" U FUCKEN SICK YANKS

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:32 (eighteen years ago)

Depending on where you are, you can still easily find lawn jockeys (hi dere non-metropolitan US).

HI DERE MERRIMACK VALLEY.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:33 (eighteen years ago)

Depending on where you are, you can still easily find lawn jockeys (hi dere non-metropolitan US).

most repainted to be white

― Catsupppppppppppppp dude ‫茄蕃‪, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:33 (eighteen years ago)

Skipping 416 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I have no idea what is going on but you guys are insane.

― Ed, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:33 (eighteen years ago)

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:33 (eighteen years ago)

How do you know it was purchased by white Britishers?

How about the fact that multiple white Britishers ON THIS THREAD have said they would like to purchase the item?

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:34 (eighteen years ago)

lol Ed and Nick

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:34 (eighteen years ago)

sippy cup (n) - an imitation black man penis

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:34 (eighteen years ago)

Popcorn is mostly cellulose amirite? Are you drinking Russian bathtub vodka?!?!

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:34 (eighteen years ago)

WHO IS I WOULD JUST LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT I HAVE BEEN OTM ON THIS THREAD???

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:34 (eighteen years ago)

OH ARGH BUT YOU GUYS JUST DON'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND SOCCER

there's a difference between not understanding and not caring.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:34 (eighteen years ago)

[i]Depending on where you are, you can still easily find lawn jockeys (hi dere non-metropolitan US).

most repainted to be white[i]

this should be a powerful metaphor for something, but i'm not sure what.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:35 (eighteen years ago)

xpost to jaymc: Multiple white Britishers would have liked to have been the first man on the moon, doesn't mean they were.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:35 (eighteen years ago)

How do you know they weren't?

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:35 (eighteen years ago)

i think there is a point that the imagery that this is compared to is american imagery, and many of these things are compared to US history that isnt necessarily taught in other countries, ie many people may be unaware of such things. the gollywogs make this argument more difficult, though i think many young people are now unaware that gollywogs ever existed, seeing as how british cultural memory is about 15 minutes long

i was talking to a south african guy the other day, he didnt know the US had had a civil war.

― 600, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

I have been otm. Who am I now? An enigma wrapped in a riddle.

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

"worked through issues" is probably better wording than "come on enough".

Although I do bathe in warm Manchester United jism every second Tuesday.

― The Wayward Johnny B, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

if it was made in Brazil, where Ronaldinho is universally regarded as God, there would have been no question whatsoever of it being a celebration of his gifts. OH ARGH BUT YOU GUYS JUST DON'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND SOCCER so we're back to square one* again.

hi there you fake ivy league shitbag, i was the best goalie in my league.

what the hell are you not getting that the intent of the makers of the item isn't the issue here?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

if i was drinking good vodka, i prolly wouldn't have been puking popcorn

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

OK YOU GOT ME THERE LOUIS. WTF.

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

In all seriousness...

A sippy cup is a cup with a lid intended for toddlers who are old enough to hold their own drink but not coordinated enough to not spill it.

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

That is not a sippy cup, btw.

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:36 (eighteen years ago)

a bottle-opener has to be shaped a certain way for it to function as a bottle-opener.

TRU

http://www.sz-wholesale.com/uploadFiles/060323092657s.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:37 (eighteen years ago)

nickalicious is confusing me.

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

Thanks for the clarification, nickalicious! I was confused!

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

lol

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

i take offense to the implication that all repairmen are lacking genitalia.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2527/ilxfi3.jpg

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

oh man those are the cutest little bottle openers ever

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

sorry grady those don't look enough like racist stereotypes to open bottles, it's physics

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:38 (eighteen years ago)

omg @ shut up limey retard.jpg

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:39 (eighteen years ago)

have you seen the Kaka bottle opener, i saw one a couple years ago, but cant find it on web

― 600, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:39 (eighteen years ago)

i am going to get fired

― gff, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:39 (eighteen years ago)

blood fucking diamonds ghost rider, blood fucking diamonds.

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:39 (eighteen years ago)

I know it's not the issue to you, Ally, but others have in the course of this discussion made it the issue. I understand the issue you are getting at, yes, I do, but it's not the one I'm having to argue against. My argument is that the bottle-opener thread, an innocent thread, was ruined by over-reacting individuals, whose over-reaction I felt it necessary to check. Then the personal shit started flying, then the accusations of 'implicit racism' arose, then I was fighting a losing battle for my dignity when I should have just walked away. Thanks, ILX.

'fake ivy league shitbag' = the sort of personal abuse that keeps me coming back for more, baby

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:39 (eighteen years ago)

Dude, no matter how hard you try you can't be as creepy as Kenan.

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:40 (eighteen years ago)

see dude the thing is you must first have dignity in order to lose it

― pretzel walrus, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:40 (eighteen years ago)

was fighting a losing battle for my dignity

you had dignity? what, for like dinner or something?

― chicago kevin, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:40 (eighteen years ago)

A sippy cup is a cup with a lid intended for toddlers who are old enough to hold their own drink but not coordinated enough to not spill it. That is not a sippy cup, btw. A sippy cup is a cup with a lid intended for toddlers who are old enough to hold their own drink but not coordinated enough to not spill it. That is not a sippy cup, btw. A sippy cup is a cup with a lid intended for toddlers who are old enough to hold their own drink but not coordinated enough to not spill it. That is not a sippy cup, btw. A sippy cup is a cup with a lid intended for toddlers who are old enough to hold their own drink but not coordinated enough to not spill it. That is not a sippy cup, btw. A sippy cup is a cup with a lid intended for toddlers who are old enough to hold their own drink but not coordinated enough to not spill it. That is not a sippy cup, btw. A sippy cup is a cup with a lid intended for toddlers who are old enough to hold their own drink but not coordinated enough to not spill it. That is not a sippy cup, btw. A sippy cup is a cup with a lid intended for toddlers who are old enough to hold their own drink but not coordinated enough to not spill it. That is not a sippy cup, btw. A sippy cup is a cup with a lid intended for toddlers who are old enough to hold their own drink but not coordinated enough to not spill it. That is not a sippy cup, btw.

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:41 (eighteen years ago)

UH YOU'RE THE IDIOT WHO IS MAKING COMMENTS ABOUT AMERICANS NOT UNDERSTANDING FOOTBALL OR DRIVING LIKE THIS OR WOMEN BE SHOPPING?? YOU DESERVE THE ABUSE YOU ARE GETTING CAPTAIN GENERALIZATION OF THE USS OXFORDPSUEDOARTFAG?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:41 (eighteen years ago)

CUTE, NON-OFFENSIVE BOTTLE OPENERS FOR REST OF THRED

http://www.funnypart.com/pictures/FunnyPart-com-organic_bottle_opener.jpg

I OPEN IT 4 U

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:41 (eighteen years ago)

CAMBRIDGEPSEUDOARTFAG YOU BITCH

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:41 (eighteen years ago)

you could make the argument that britain is more racist because it hasnt worked through issues and is still insensitive to them, you could make thte argument it is less racist because it has forgotten about them

a fairly big deal was made in the UK of Big Ron's n-bomb, the remarks made about Henry, the black Barca players threatening to leave the field following monkey chants, the recent treatment of Jason Scotland, etc. I think Britain still has a shit load to work through and I don't think as a nation we're insensitive to racist imagery. I just feel that in this case the connection to what is mainly American imagery isn't clear cut and easy to make for some of us - particularly those of us who enjoy footballers being ridiculed as a cultural staple. That may make us ignorant, but not wilfully so.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:41 (eighteen years ago)

I don't think that's a very good bottle opener.

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:42 (eighteen years ago)

My Argument, a Poem by Louis Jagger

I know it's not the issue to you
Ally
But others
In the course of this discussion
Made it the issue.

I understand the issue you are getting at
Yes, I do
But it's not the one I'm having to argue against.

My argument is that the bottle-opener thread
An innocent thread
Was ruined by over-reacting individuals
Whose over-reaction I felt it necessary to check.

Then the personal shit started flying
Then the accusations of 'implicit racism' arose
Then I was fighting a losing battle for my dignity

When I should have just walked away.

P.S. 'fake ivy league shitbag' = the sort of personal abuse that keeps me coming back for more, baby
Thanks, ILX.

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:42 (eighteen years ago)

Actually I don't think the intention of the manufacturer is 100% relevant here. Lots of people make racist comments who would be horrified to be thought of as racist. Mostly because they lack the basic sensitivity to see the racism there in the first place. Did you guys learn nothing from the whole Jade Goody/Shilpa Shetty thing?

― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:42 (eighteen years ago)

WHO GIVES A SHIT, ONE COLLEGE-AGED PRETEND BISEXUAL IS THE SAME AS ANOTHER, YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE GOING TO PRINCETON FOR ALL I WOULD BE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:42 (eighteen years ago)

You are the new T. S. Eliot, Mr. Que.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:43 (eighteen years ago)

haha I meant the picture Matt linked to is not a suppy cup.

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:43 (eighteen years ago)

you prefer the Kaka one too?

― 600, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:43 (eighteen years ago)

ok, Mr. Que's versification of my rant actually had me lolling just now. you win this round!

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:43 (eighteen years ago)

Mr. Que, I kiss you.

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:43 (eighteen years ago)

Okay I have to applaud the Princeton slam. KUDOS

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:43 (eighteen years ago)

i knew you'd like that, dan :D
secret ivy league handshake!!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:44 (eighteen years ago)

BEER HAMMER
http://www.world-wonders.net/images_products_big/90002_big.jpg

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:45 (eighteen years ago)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c90/gradygillan/FunnyPart-com-organic_bottle_opener.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:45 (eighteen years ago)

I WISH I KNEW SPECIAL HANDSHAKE, BUT I AM NOT FANCY LIKE DAN AND LOUIS

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:46 (eighteen years ago)

http://i16.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/77/df/9c31_1_b.JPG

Note tiny head and hole where his brain should be.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:46 (eighteen years ago)

YEAH I WOULDN'T ACCEPT LOUIS' "SPECIAL HANDSHAKE" IF I WERE YOU

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:47 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.citycynic.com/im/00017johnnycarson2.jpg

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:47 (eighteen years ago)

Depending on where you are, you can still easily find lawn jockeys (hi dere non-metropolitan US).

most repainted to be white

But some not. There's one on my dog-walking route, and I can't come up with a clever way of vandalizing it without, you know, making it worse.

― Pleasant Plains, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:47 (eighteen years ago)

when it comes down to it, we're all pretty similar. we're intelligent, educated, liberal fellas, it's just that we're looking at the (non-)issue from different perspectives and being dogmatic about it. i vote we call it a day. just folx on a messageboard getting het up over little. peace? i'll retract all of my (i'm sure you'll claim impotent) insults now.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:47 (eighteen years ago)

we're intelligent, educated, liberal fellas

Charming.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:48 (eighteen years ago)

i'll retract all of my (i'm sure you'll claim impotent) insults now.

take pictures, okay?

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:48 (eighteen years ago)

we're intelligent, educated, liberal fellas

sexist

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:49 (eighteen years ago)

Okay I have to applaud the Princeton slam. KUDOS

It was pretty good, but I still prefer Tuesday's from Marissa:

there's something truly hilarious about the second of those rugby photos, and I think it may have something to do with the lady on the right.

unfished business on Tuesday, 20 March 2007 22:35 (Yesterday)

not interesting.

marissa on Tuesday, 20 March 2007 22:38 (Yesterday)

― caek, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:49 (eighteen years ago)

hahahahahahahahahahahaha onimo wins

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:49 (eighteen years ago)

Charming.

??

Ned, if this is sarcastic, UH? Do you wish to be known as a stupid, unschooled crank?

(by 'educated' i don't just mean 'at university/college', i mean well-read, well-versed in culture etc)

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:51 (eighteen years ago)

'fellas' incorporates women in my book. one's fellow humans etc etc

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:51 (eighteen years ago)

IN HOLE STOP DIGGING LOUIS

― Matt DC, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:52 (eighteen years ago)

are you for serious? THEY LET CHICKS ARGUE ON THE INTERNET NOW TOO.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:52 (eighteen years ago)

we're intelligent, educated, liberal fellas

I'm not no fella, ya sexist. But yeah, good luck with the whole "let's all agree to disagree" thing. That works a treat on ILX.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:52 (eighteen years ago)

FELLAS (what)
FELLAS (what)
I'M READY (i'm ready)
i think i'm gonna OVERDOSE

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:52 (eighteen years ago)

the internet is going straight to hell

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:52 (eighteen years ago)

I love these threads. Thanks guys. But there's just not enough crazy. Where's "you know who"*?

*Sorry, can't be specific. I am operating under Bloody Mary/Candynman principle.

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:53 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.kitchencontraptions.com/archives/pictures/3390312_detail-thumb.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:53 (eighteen years ago)

Or, yeah, what they all said above me.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:53 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/110500/110593WDFC_w.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:54 (eighteen years ago)

they let chicks do ALL KINDS of things on the internet

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:54 (eighteen years ago)

A-ooooooooo-GA!

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:55 (eighteen years ago)

jesus, by 'fellas' i meant everyone, it's my collective term for any group of people

IRL instance:

me: "Seeya later, fellas"

group of mixed-gender people: "Bye LJ"

boy out of group (putting pants back on): "Don't breathe a word of this to anyone"

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:55 (eighteen years ago)

a special bottle opener

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:55 (eighteen years ago)

Grady don't you have any pics of bottle openers that look like Transformers fucking?

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:55 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.boingboing.net/opener%20picture1.jpg

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:56 (eighteen years ago)

That beats the shit out of ping-pong balls.

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:56 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.auctionbuzzz.com/Jay/catopen1.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:57 (eighteen years ago)

How to open a beer bottle with a piece of paper

― caek, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:57 (eighteen years ago)

See Louis? You just can't hang with the Master of Creepy.

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:57 (eighteen years ago)

http://ebayimages.goantiques.com/dbimages/ZDE4440/ZDE4440JBED71.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:58 (eighteen years ago)

louis you a punk, i'm a serial killer, YA HEARD

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:59 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.bitsnbobs.co.uk/upload/MP-976.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:59 (eighteen years ago)

I just imagine Louis as perpetually on stage with a crook around his neck dragging him toward the curtain, going "c'mon, that was funny, is this thing on?, FUCK ALL OF YOU BASTARDS, hey c'mon guys, that was funny, I WILL KILL YOUR PETS, you've been a great audience, is this thing on?"

― nabisco, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:59 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.wonderlandblog.com/wonderland/images/starwarsbarset.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 21:59 (eighteen years ago)

nabisco otm.

― caek, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:00 (eighteen years ago)

grady wtf

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:00 (eighteen years ago)

nabisco you are a treat today

― ghost rider, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:00 (eighteen years ago)

i mean, star wars i get, but the one before that

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:00 (eighteen years ago)

C3PO SHIV, WOW

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:01 (eighteen years ago)

BAD IDEA

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:01 (eighteen years ago)

[imag]http://www.prezziesplus.co.uk/lg-bobble-bottle-opener.jpg[/image]

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:01 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.prezziesplus.co.uk/lg-bobble-bottle-opener.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:02 (eighteen years ago)

again, ILXors be judgin'.

One thing you'll notice I don't do is make judgements about you. Except that you're probably all very pleasant, educated, intelligent blah blah blah fellas. Whenever you take it upon yourselves to character-assassinate me, that's just fuel for my self-defensive fire, and when that fire gets stoked, flame-outs occur.

Kenan doesn't seem particularly creepy to me, for instance, although some of his links are, shall we say, diverting.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:03 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.prezzybox.com/pb/data/media/11380.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:04 (eighteen years ago)

Nabisco's analogy is quite an amusing one, though, I'll give him that!

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:04 (eighteen years ago)

This thread has taught me a great deal about bottle openers.

― Matt, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:05 (eighteen years ago)

ILX, I KISS YOU

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:05 (eighteen years ago)

hoosteen, as ever, with the final say

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:07 (eighteen years ago)

I just have to say, the clip with the dude opening a beer bottle with a piece of paper is madly anticlimactic. I want that two minutes back. Which brings me to my next point: two minutes to open a beer is WAY too long.

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:07 (eighteen years ago)

http://secure.showtech.com/store/assets/images/products/trailerparkboys/Accessories/PBTP004005L.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:07 (eighteen years ago)

ufished business please stop talking about yourself. you will tire yourself out before you start your autobiography

― 600, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:08 (eighteen years ago)

FAVORITE SO FAR:

http://www.perpetualkid.com/productimages/lg/OPEN-0176.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:08 (eighteen years ago)

I'm only talking about myself because it seems to be the prevailing topic of conversation.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:09 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.pleasuremenow.com/ProductImages/sexy_bottle_openers_LG.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:09 (eighteen years ago)

DO THE REASONABLE BRITISH PEOPLE JUST SLEEP THE FUCK IN OR WHAT

they don't care about football enough to click here until pointed.

i haven't even seen the bottle opener but omg that baby bottle.

― lex pretend, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:10 (eighteen years ago)

One of, at any rate.

I was talking, originally, about this damned bottle-opener, but then the personal shit started getting flung.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:10 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.nawtythings.com/novelties/cocktail/ct1.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:10 (eighteen years ago)

lex, it's in the first post of the thread

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:10 (eighteen years ago)

http://images.quizilla.com/M/mattababy/1075690038_turesgiant.jpg
IT IS HAPPENING...AGAIN.

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:11 (eighteen years ago)

louis you said you were done with this thread about 50 posts in, or what seems a lifetime ago after reading it all

― lex pretend, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:11 (eighteen years ago)

Oh man I hate no xposts.

― nickalicious, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:12 (eighteen years ago)

I was done with it, but it wasn't done with me.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:12 (eighteen years ago)

lex, it's in the first post of the thread

images off

like your sense of perspective/dignity on this thread

― lex pretend, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:13 (eighteen years ago)

He who is tired of this thread is tired of life.

― Matt, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:13 (eighteen years ago)

DAMN YOU XPOSTS

― Matt, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:13 (eighteen years ago)

anyway ENOUGH, I'm now closing the shed door long, long, long after the horse bolted. :-(

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:13 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.themurphyscottagecrafts.com/cciron/pics%20050.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:15 (eighteen years ago)

Pazuzu craves bottle caps

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:17 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.corkscrew.com/images/unicorn.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:18 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.corkscrew.com/images/old_snifter_th.jpg

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:19 (eighteen years ago)

OMG I KNOW U ARE ALL GONE OFF THE NET NOW BUT THIS IS SRSLY THE BEST THING EVER AND I GET MY DOG BACK THIS SATURDAY

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:23 (eighteen years ago)

HI GUYS, IVE BEEN BUSY ESLEWHERE WHATD I MISS IN THIS THREAD?

ALSO I BRING YOU BUNNY

http://www.icanhascheezburger.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/1174467715997.jpg

― kingfish, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:35 (eighteen years ago)

DO THE REASONABLE BRITISH PEOPLE JUST SLEEP THE FUCK IN OR WHAT

It's the evening here, not the morning.

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:37 (eighteen years ago)

btw I've been waiting on someone to add WHY ARE AMERICANS SO OBSESSED WITH RACE to Ronaldo Bottle Opener in the above style all fuckin afternoon.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:40 (eighteen years ago)

xpost, that is.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:41 (eighteen years ago)

i can't believe i read this whole thing

― river wolf, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:42 (eighteen years ago)

It's Ronaldhino, not Ronaldo. Or do all Brazilian footballers with silly teeth look the same to you?

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:42 (eighteen years ago)

KEEP ZINGIN AILSA

― river wolf, Thursday, 22 March 2007 22:43 (eighteen years ago)

hahahahahaha this thread will be a winner

ghost rider on Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:58 PM

ghost rider otm

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 22 March 2007 23:14 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.ronaldinho.cc/images/ronaldinho-profile.jpg

― am0n, Friday, 23 March 2007 00:54 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/06/01/ronaldinho_wideweb__470x379,0.jpg

― am0n, Friday, 23 March 2007 00:55 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.irancartoon.com/100/daily/Ronaldinho.jpg

― am0n, Friday, 23 March 2007 00:56 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.paddy-boehm.de/karikaturen/gross/Ronaldinho.jpg

― am0n, Friday, 23 March 2007 00:57 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.cyberattic.com/stores/ritabrand/items/461691/catphoto.jpg

― bobby bedelia, Friday, 23 March 2007 07:51 (eighteen years ago)

http://futility.typepad.com/futility/images/shanehits2.jpg

― bobby bedelia, Friday, 23 March 2007 07:53 (eighteen years ago)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y103/catchee/roonlg.jpg

― bobby bedelia, Friday, 23 March 2007 08:02 (eighteen years ago)

i do think the initial image of the bottle opener screamed RACIST (I R american)
but i also think the UKists had a fair enough point regarding different sensitivities as seen in US depictions of indians/pakistanis & such

also, i bet most of the DC crew throwing a shit fit just luv them some Tarantino </morbius>

― bobby bedelia, Friday, 23 March 2007 08:14 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.hollywood-costumes.com/austinpowers/austin-headb.jpg

― The Wayward Johnny B, Friday, 23 March 2007 08:16 (eighteen years ago)

just opened this thread with images on and whaaaaaaaaaaat how can anyone look at the first image without thinking that it's massively and REALLY OBVIOUSLY, way beyond any "cultural differences" bullshit, completely fucking racist?! seriously how STUPID do you have to be?

― lex pretend, Friday, 23 March 2007 08:22 (eighteen years ago)

Well, this thread turned out approximately as I had anticipated.

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 23 March 2007 10:18 (eighteen years ago)

don't be so proud of that!

― lex pretend, Friday, 23 March 2007 10:20 (eighteen years ago)

Shall we talk about whether tax-originated compensation should be paid to the victims of slavery now?

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 23 March 2007 10:22 (eighteen years ago)

Make sure we do it before America wakes up.

― The Wayward Johnny B, Friday, 23 March 2007 11:26 (eighteen years ago)

I think America is ultimately right on this matter.

― blueski, Friday, 23 March 2007 11:27 (eighteen years ago)

As do I.
What mitigated against their argument was that, Dan and Nabisco aside (plus others but I can't be arsed re-reading the whole thing) it degenerated into unpleasant name-calling in ten seconds flat.

― Matt, Friday, 23 March 2007 11:28 (eighteen years ago)

Noise dudes calling you a limey retard isn't really name calling though is it? More like punctuation.

― onimo, Friday, 23 March 2007 11:31 (eighteen years ago)

"Chapter four: correct usage of the limey retard"

― Matt, Friday, 23 March 2007 11:32 (eighteen years ago)

for what it's worth, I stand by the points I made, and I still don't think it's racist for the reasons I fruitlessly outlined. it's clearly a difference of perspective, and no amount of CAPS LOCK is going to make me believe my perspective on it is wrong. there wasn't much in the way of cogent argument for the 'American' side, but I guess that point is that their take on it is intuitive so there needn't be.

― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 March 2007 11:40 (eighteen years ago)

The item itself may or may not be intended as racist (I suspect not) but it doubtless fits in an entire lineage of racist cultural iconography.

But yeah, compensation to the great-great-great-great grandchildren of the victims of slavery! Someone somewhere thinks it ought to be paid! Because "I'm sorry, here's £100!" is recompense enough! And who the fuck pays it! And who the fuck is it paid to! Oh what a great idea!

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 23 March 2007 11:51 (eighteen years ago)

I had only vaguely heard the name ronaldinho before resding this thread, I didn't know who he was.

Intentionally or otherwise, the bottle opener strikes me strongly as being a racist caricature. I would not, personally, own such an item myself. It stirkes me as being naff, grotesque and tacky.

I generally agree w/ghost rider, ally, matt dc and nabiso, having read the entire thread.

Louis you are the new calum.

― Pashmina, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:07 (eighteen years ago)

use of British in insults needs to go. if an American says something stupid (it may have happened once or twice on ILX, but can't say for sure) i don't write 'shut up you AMERICAN whatever'. i don't think other American ILXors would care much for that either. but then we Brits have never really understood their sense of humour of course. Pip pip!

― blueski, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:13 (eighteen years ago)

"resding" = "reading", "stirkes me" = "strikes me"

also, forgot to say OMG THIS THREAD.

― Pashmina, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:14 (eighteen years ago)

What do you mean? I threw in my two penn'orth on an issue barely worth giving a stuff for, but my two penn'orth was magnified and thrown back to such an extent that I ended up arguing a cause I don't actually have any strong feelings towards, on entirely semantic grounds. 'Calum' was I believe a renowned libertarian with a somewhat dodgy attitude towards foreigners, i.e. totally unlike myself. Whilst I could see their position, I was arguing mine from the unshifting basis that knowing Ronaldinho, I could judge whether a representation of him was racist or not. I decided not, which led certain posters to character-assassinate me. :-(

― unfished business, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:15 (eighteen years ago)

Louis you are the new calum.

Hahahahahahahaha I almost said this yesterday!

― HI DERE, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:15 (eighteen years ago)

"shut up you american whatever" was actually part of CRW's ILM steez, I think?

― Pashmina, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:15 (eighteen years ago)

he never called Ned American i don't think.

― blueski, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:17 (eighteen years ago)

Callum did this weird thing where he'd do all his SUPERIOR BRITISH CULTURE A FIE ON YOU COLONIALISTS ACROSS THE POND schtick, and then he'd just go and troll all the British posters instead, probably because he was only online during work hours.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:18 (eighteen years ago)

there was a bit of 'yanks' tho for sure

― blueski, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:18 (eighteen years ago)

tbh, I'd wondered how a thread about a bottle opener had gotten so many responses.

― jel --, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:18 (eighteen years ago)

Calum vs America

― onimo, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:19 (eighteen years ago)

'Calum' was I believe a renowned libertarian with a somewhat dodgy attitude towards foreigners, i.e. totally unlike myself.

Clarity.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:20 (eighteen years ago)

It's more Calum vs everyone actually, like most of his threads.

― onimo, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:21 (eighteen years ago)

The best calum vs USA thread is that ilm one guns & roses vs the smiths.

I like Calum, he's OK. I don't think he fitted in very well here though, did he.

― Pashmina, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:21 (eighteen years ago)

stop talking about calum in the present tense pash, you're making me nervous!

― blueski, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:23 (eighteen years ago)

aaaaahh jeeeesus...i've had a religious conversion! all yank music is great. yank music is so great that i must yank my crank and make a mess on the counterpane. ooops. i made a mess all over my copy of 'born to run'; oh piddle!

Calum Robert on Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:00 AM (4 years ago)

― onimo, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:24 (eighteen years ago)

He's still out there....wooooooo.

I don't think he's on the internet much these days, though.

― Pashmina, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:24 (eighteen years ago)

He's too busy writing horror movie reviews for Britian's #1 alternative culture magazine.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:25 (eighteen years ago)

I thought that was what you did, Dom?

― Pashmina, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:26 (eighteen years ago)

No, I write fetish articles for them.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:27 (eighteen years ago)

You should have seen my article on nerd porn in the last issue. Slobberknocker, I tells ya.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:27 (eighteen years ago)

OMG I just stumbled across C-Zar's 'Pete Doherty: Best Thing Since Sliced Jarvis' thread.

― onimo, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:29 (eighteen years ago)

No, I write fetish articles for them.

Dom Passantino on Friday, 23 March 2007 12:27 (1 minute ago)

Let me know when your article on henfapophilia is published and I'll buy a copy, then.

― Pashmina, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:30 (eighteen years ago)

OMG you guys are totally missing the point here. The real question is whether they should have made a bottle opener or a pneumatic drill.(NSFW)

― Madchen, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:39 (eighteen years ago)

omg titties on screen at work :(

― onimo, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:41 (eighteen years ago)

Oops, sorry. I don't see boobs.

― Madchen, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:43 (eighteen years ago)

i'm surrounded by tits at work, might as well be a couple more on the screen...

― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:44 (eighteen years ago)

To be fair I should have expected boobs from the seeing "thesun.co.uk"

― onimo, Friday, 23 March 2007 12:45 (eighteen years ago)

this will go perfectly with my manute bol chopsticks

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 23 March 2007 13:16 (eighteen years ago)

omg Tracer hahahahahahaha

― HI DERE, Friday, 23 March 2007 13:23 (eighteen years ago)

Now I know who Manute Bol is, I have decided that this is the greatest picture in the history of the world. Thank you Tracer.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8230/035monuteboll5mh.jpg

It is totally SFW, incidentally.

― Madchen, Friday, 23 March 2007 13:33 (eighteen years ago)

Argh nu-code!
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8230/035monuteboll5mh.jpg

― Madchen, Friday, 23 March 2007 13:34 (eighteen years ago)

That picture makes it look like he had below knee amputations.

― onimo, Friday, 23 March 2007 13:42 (eighteen years ago)

what we need is swastika bottle openers to get ilx2 really going

― ken c, Friday, 23 March 2007 13:43 (eighteen years ago)

but i also think the UKists had a fair enough point regarding different sensitivities as seen in US depictions of indians/pakistanis & such

can someone explain to me what this has to really do with the argument, considering there is not a single american on this thread who defended said depictions (and a few came out and said, "yes, that's bullshit too")?

also, stevem, plz to not pretend that people around here do not use american as an insult almost as frequently (though if you have kate and a couple of other obvious targets for killfiling in your killfile you mightn't know, fair enough) as noize dudes and dcers degrade on britishes.

also, manute bol!!

also, guys, lj and calum are not comparable at all, i mean the manics thread ffs!!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Friday, 23 March 2007 14:19 (eighteen years ago)

WHAT I'M SAYING IS, RACIST IS RACIST AND I THINK MOST RATIONAL PEOPLE SHOULD DAMN WELL BE ABLE TO SPOT SUCH WHEN THEY SEE IT AND IN THIS AGE OF INFORMATION THE IDEA OF "DIFFERING SENSITIVITIES" MAKING IT OK TO PRETEND THAT YOU DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW THIS COULD BE TAKEN BADLY IS A WHOLE PILE OF HOOEY.

THIS IS FOR RIGHT-WINGY LIBERTARIANESQUE DUDER WHO REFERENCED CAPS LOCKS BTW :D

SINCERELY,
QUENTIN TARANTINO

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Friday, 23 March 2007 14:21 (eighteen years ago)

It is true that I would rather read about Nicky Wire in a banana suit.

― HI DERE, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:22 (eighteen years ago)

little known fact...Tom's of Maine Toothpaste used to be Uncle Tom's of Macon Toothpaste.

― dan selzer, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:24 (eighteen years ago)

What mitigated against their argument was that, Dan and Nabisco aside (plus others but I can't be arsed re-reading the whole thing) it degenerated into unpleasant name-calling in ten seconds flat.

good morning, Adam.

― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:26 (eighteen years ago)

As a humerous aside, I gave my wife the following background:

"Do you know the soccer player Ronaldinho? He's a Brazilian hero, probably one of the best to ever play the game and a national hero, but he has fucked-up teeth."

My wife instantly began busting on his teeth, most notably around the theme "If he's that famous and he has that much money, why doesn't he fix them? If they're that big, why haven't they been knocked out yet?"

I continued: "So anyway, someone decided to make a bottle opener based on him."

My wife: "Oh no! His teeth are that fucked up that he looks like he's been opening bottles with them? ROFFLE ROFFLE"

Me: "This is what it looks like." (I show her the picture at the beginning of this thread.)

My wife: "ROFFLE ROFFLE ROFFLE ROFFLE ROFFLE OH MY GOD THAT IS INCREDIBLY RACIST I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT SHIT ROFFLE ROFFLE OH NO WOW HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT ROFFLE ROFFLE WOW, that's just like that Darkie Toothpaste they sold in Japan"

Me: "ROFFLE ROFFLE DARKIE TOOTHPASTE WAS THE SECOND RESPONSE"

My wife: "ROFFLE ROFFLE ROFFLE"

― HI DERE, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:28 (eighteen years ago)

this whole thread one side was like OMG SO NOT RACIST and the other side was like OMG U R ALL RACISTS, and why can't you people just accept that you are racist and leave it at that? it's not a death sentence, for fuck's sake.

― Mr. Que, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:28 (eighteen years ago)

In summation, I can't spell for shit.

― HI DERE, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:29 (eighteen years ago)

ROBBLE ROBBLE

http://www.geocities.com/skaterman.rm/hamburglar.jpg

― Mr. Que, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:30 (eighteen years ago)

xpost: In fairness, it wasn't so much "U R ALL RACISTS" as much as it was "U R ALL DISINGENUOUS".

― HI DERE, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:30 (eighteen years ago)

true, Dan. i was just being inflammatory.

― Mr. Que, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:31 (eighteen years ago)

Can't believe we've got this far down the thread without anyone calling Ethan out for making rape jokes...

(For those of you playing thread bingo..)

― Anna, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:31 (eighteen years ago)

Also how did you know that my wife then snatched my gigantic fuck-off-huge fries and ran out the door??? STALKER

― HI DERE, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:32 (eighteen years ago)

she emailed me the picture this morning!

― Mr. Que, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:32 (eighteen years ago)

STALKER

― HI DERE, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:33 (eighteen years ago)

robble robble i'm infatuated
b*tch ride a d*ck like she's makin a baby!

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:35 (eighteen years ago)

I really don't think that bottle opener is racist and I wouldn't suspect one of being racist for owning it, but I couldn't own one even if I was a football fan. It's just too reminiscent of American racist iconography. I'd be uncomfortable with it and I would totally understand if guests were like WTF, dude. Products with the kind of racist iconography featured above, while rare, were sold in America as late as the '60's or even the '70's. It's going to be a while before that context disappears.

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:38 (eighteen years ago)

sorry

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:38 (eighteen years ago)

no you aren't

― HI DERE, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:39 (eighteen years ago)

Dan if your wife dresses up as Hamburglar, who do you dress up as? Birdie the Early Bird?

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/2/2e/Mcd-birdie.gif

― Mr. Que, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:40 (eighteen years ago)

"U R ALL DISINGENUOUS"

is this your summary of what other people have been saying, Dan, or your own take on things?

― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:42 (eighteen years ago)

also, stevem, plz to not pretend that people around here do not use american as an insult almost as frequently (though if you have kate and a couple of other obvious targets for killfiling in your killfile you mightn't know, fair enough) as noize dudes and dcers degrade on britishes.

i haven't seen that many 'God, Americans are soooo stupid' type comments on ILX. have there really been as many, in the same style?

― blueski, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:42 (eighteen years ago)

oh god

when i first saw this thread i thought to myself 'if there's ONE thread asking for trouble, this is it. Lips are sealed'.

then i thought 'hey, i'll just say one leetle thing...'

then :-(

sorry everyone, but i DO stand by what i said: i.e. this bottle-opener in itself isn't racist, although it could be seen to resemble the sort of racist iconography that i myself, a 20 year-old Brit, wouldn't have been exposed to. The toothpaste is obviously racist, for instance, but the bottle-opener struck me in itself as being no more than a reasonably cheeky but otherwise celebratory piece of memorabilia. apologies if that makes me ignorant.

is there any forgiveness i could plead for, or are my ILX privileges all spent?

― unfished business, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:47 (eighteen years ago)

the 2nd one

― and what, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:49 (eighteen years ago)

lj have you ever considered s&m? i think you could get a lot out of it.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 23 March 2007 14:51 (eighteen years ago)

jesus louis we've all moved on!

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Friday, 23 March 2007 14:54 (eighteen years ago)

also dan otm (about both the hamburglar and the disingenuous)

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Friday, 23 March 2007 14:55 (eighteen years ago)

bloody hell. when i was 20 i had a pretty good idea about this sort of racist iconography myself. and the internet was SHIT back then...

― blueski, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:03 (eighteen years ago)

Louis, plenty of people made very similar arguments, but they did not catch as much shit. The subject of whether or not this bottle opener is racist is incidental to peoples reaction to your posts.

You are one of the most bait-able people on ile today, other that GZeus, who will react to things that don't even exist.

You have a history, and a way of expressing yourself that generates some roffles and that is sometimes annoying.

If you are going to continue to post, you had best be able to say, "Oh, fuck it," and let things be. Also, Ally is always going to give you shit and you are going to lose these fights. I don't think you really want to engage her.

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:10 (eighteen years ago)

Okay, I'll phrase that a little differently. I CAN recognise purposefully racist iconography for what it is. I haven't been exposed, however, to an entire culture of it; I don't automatically think 'racist!' whenever a caricature of a non-white person pops up. I understand, now, how this is the case for many others. And I'm feeling pretty shit about how I must have seemed to them in this rough ol' thread.

― unfished business, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:11 (eighteen years ago)

xpost: I guess so, but I don't like leaving things be when someone's just described me as a shit-for-brains! Maybe I should learn to do so...

― unfished business, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:13 (eighteen years ago)

Also, Ally is always going to give you shit and you are going to lose these fights. I don't think you really want to engage her.

Take it from me: you don't.

― kenan, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:14 (eighteen years ago)

Particularly if you're saying a bunch of ill-thought-out bullshit.

― kenan, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:15 (eighteen years ago)

hey now

― unfished business, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:16 (eighteen years ago)

shootin my mouth off
makin a scene
wearin a dress and
defendin, it seems,
some racist toy
"it's affectionate, boy!"
there's a cultural gulf
it'll swallow us both

in this rough ol' thread

― gbx, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:16 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.israellycool.com/growingpains_big.jpg

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:17 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=racial+objectification
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=objectification+african-american
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=objectification+%22black+people%22

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:19 (eighteen years ago)

Louis this thread is not about you.

― Matt DC, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:20 (eighteen years ago)

I'm pretty sure Louis's ancestors owned slaves though, so in a way it is entirely about him.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:21 (eighteen years ago)

the problem is that some people always seem so adamant about something NOT being racist (see also Shilpa CBB thing) but then as the argument develops you see how ignorant they are about the subject generally. there's so much denial involved on their side because people are often so desperate to be seen as not racist or supportive of anything that could be construed as racist. i've done it myself, tho i still think i was right in some cases heh.

― blueski, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:21 (eighteen years ago)

louisjaggerbottleopener.jpg

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:21 (eighteen years ago)

I liked Grimace becuase he was purple, and had fairly inarticulate limbs

― kingfish, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:29 (eighteen years ago)

NEXT LEVEL

xpost to dom

― and what, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:30 (eighteen years ago)

shootin my mouth off
makin a scene
wearin a dress and
defendin, it seems,
some racist toy
"it's affectionate, boy!"
there's a cultural gulf
it'll swallow us both

in this rough ol' thread

gbx on Friday, 23 March 2007 15:16 (16 minutes ago)

Excellent.

― Pashmina, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:33 (eighteen years ago)

Racism becomes it.

― blueski, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:39 (eighteen years ago)

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:7Sl97-b3UO0J:www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/historyonline/slav_fact.cfm+sicily+slavery&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=uk

― Frogman Henry, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:41 (eighteen years ago)

thunderpants.edu

― and what, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:42 (eighteen years ago)

Why would a hamburglar concern himself with fries and shakes? Wouldn't that just make him a burglar with a more general specialty?

― Pleasant Plains, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:42 (eighteen years ago)

HAHAHA

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:44 (eighteen years ago)

I really don't think that bottle opener is racist and I wouldn't suspect one of being racist for owning it, but I couldn't own one even if I was a football fan. It's just too reminiscent of American racist iconography. I'd be uncomfortable with it and I would totally understand if guests were like WTF, dude. Products with the kind of racist iconography featured above, while rare, were sold in America as late as the '60's or even the '70's. It's going to be a while before that context disappears.

I think that sums it up fairly.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:53 (eighteen years ago)

possibly the most offensive thing on this thread is the idea that objectification of black people - relentlessly focusing on their bodies or body parts - died some kind of natural dignified death, rather than actually still going great guns in a million other ways

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 23 March 2007 15:59 (eighteen years ago)

when that fire gets stoked, flame-outs occur

― deej, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:02 (eighteen years ago)

That really is a choice quote.

― i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:07 (eighteen years ago)

ASPBURGLAR more like

― blueski, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:08 (eighteen years ago)

The Ronaldo bottle opener reminds of those rubbish football figure things with gigantic heads that were in shops a few years ago.

― jel --, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:10 (eighteen years ago)

Ronaldinho, I mean. Sorry.

― jel --, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:12 (eighteen years ago)

no talkin bad 'bout bobble-heads!

― Tracer Hand, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:13 (eighteen years ago)

He doesn't mean bobbleheads, he means Corinthians:

http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/images/ruud-gullit-miniature.jpg

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:14 (eighteen years ago)

That really is a choice quote.

theres something v. poetic about the mixed metaphor. And i appreciate the passive voice. that quote is enjoyed by me.

― deej, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:14 (eighteen years ago)

Those things were pretty offensive to free-breakfast-cereal-toy makers.

― Frogman Henry, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:14 (eighteen years ago)

Ronaldinho Corinthian:

http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/microstars/microstars-MC6840.jpg

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:14 (eighteen years ago)

[quote]U R ALL DISINGENUOUS[quote]

There's a lot of ingenuousness on this thread from the British side, but very little disingenuousness.

― Mark C, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:24 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1219.jpg
WANT

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:43 (eighteen years ago)

you are mocking the dead

― unfished business, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:46 (eighteen years ago)

they should have done Puskas in monochrome. who ever saw him in colour, eh? it's not the same.

http://www.planetworldcup.com/LEGENDS/puskas.jpg

also, he should probabaly be a bit porkier.

― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:48 (eighteen years ago)

[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1209.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1203.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1076.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1030.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1199.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1215.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1213.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1211.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1201.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1205.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1080.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1026.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.corinthianseller.co.uk/prostars/prostars-PRO1219.jpg[/img]

WANT ALL OF THESE

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:49 (eighteen years ago)

That Puskas figure looks like he should be drawing a knife on a bouncer.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

srsly that's not puskas, it's robert blake

― kenan, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

what, the leeds player?

― unfished business, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:53 (eighteen years ago)

Well allegedly after the Battle of Berne he smashed in a Brazillian official with a broken bottle.

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:54 (eighteen years ago)

'Diamond' Frankie Puskas was suspected of killing Jack 'The Hat' McVitie before the Krays got busted for it.

― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:54 (eighteen years ago)

If those images had worked we'd have Schmeichel, Beckenbauer, Passarella, Carlos Alberto, Maldini, Roy Keane, Best, Stoichkov, Platini, Cruyff, Maradonna, Garrincha and Puskas all together. (Stoichkov and Platini on the bench.)

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:55 (eighteen years ago)

Dom, you still haven't started that 'great footballers of the 90's' thread.

― unfished business, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:59 (eighteen years ago)

"img" instead of "image" inside the square brackets was yr undoing, Nick.

― Pashmina, Friday, 23 March 2007 16:59 (eighteen years ago)

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:02 (eighteen years ago)

Cruyff, looks kinda like that French actor dude.

― jel --, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

That Garrincha one is actually amazing.

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:04 (eighteen years ago)

Passarella looks like he's about to spit at you.

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:05 (eighteen years ago)

Not sure they've got Garrincha's legs right.

― unfished business, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

Nick, you've picked too many Fancy Dans. where's Souey? where's Paul Mariner?

― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:12 (eighteen years ago)

I would just like to point out that i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread has been otm in this thread

― Matt, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:15 (eighteen years ago)

Hem Hem

― Madchen, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:25 (eighteen years ago)

Beardsley. Now there was a chin.

― Matt, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:27 (eighteen years ago)

Roy Keane is my token non-fancy-dan.

I've just bid on Garrincha and Puskas on eBay. Stop me please.

― Scik Mouthy, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:28 (eighteen years ago)

Stop that at once.

― Matt, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

Main Entry: dis·in·gen·u·ous
Pronunciation: "dis-in-'jen-y&-w&s, -yü-&s-
Function: adjective
: lacking in candor; also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness : CALCULATING
- dis·in·gen·u·ous·ly adverb
- dis·in·gen·u·ous·ness noun

― HI DERE, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:40 (eighteen years ago)

i never that

― blueski, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

i was, and am, full of candour. i resent the disingenuous accusation more than the racist one, because it sounds like you actually mean it.

yeah i put the 'u' in.

― Roberto Spiralli, Friday, 23 March 2007 17:44 (eighteen years ago)

Who among us can open a beer with their teeth?
Thay's MY fucking question.

― aimurchie, Friday, 23 March 2007 21:26 (eighteen years ago)

me!

― tom, Friday, 23 March 2007 22:49 (eighteen years ago)

Prove it.

― aimurchie, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:13 (eighteen years ago)

i used to be able to. then i chipped one of my molars.

haven't looked at the rest of this thread. did i miss much?

[ducks]

― grimly fiendish, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:35 (eighteen years ago)

Dan, I know what it means, thanks, which is why I was able to point out you're completely wrong.

― Mark C, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:40 (eighteen years ago)

fwiw, I thought Nabisco said something rather illuminating in the Asian Representations thread:

I think the big US/UK difference in representation is not only that the UK has a much more significant subcontinental population, but also that you guys are well past the point where lots and lots of those people are British-born and integrated into society and really very well maybe "just like white British people, with only skin color setting them apart" or whatever was said up there. Whereas I think the US is just getting to that transition over the past years. Up until some point in the 80s, the image of people from the subcontinent would definitely be as an immigrant population, including lots of urban clusters in "stereotypical" new-immigrant jobs (like cab driving or whatever) -- but very shortly after that, for TONS of younger people, the main face of, say, Indians mostly involves the children of middle-class immigrants dotted around suburbs and totally integrated into America. Which is more the Harold and Kumar vision, and most anyone that age that goes to college is going to be completely used to seeing Indians that way. (Cf the same transition in thinking/expectations/stereotypes of East Asians happening a lot earlier.)

(In fact even way pre-Kumar teen movies integrated that kind of role into them, though often in kind of a goofy way -- like it's not a coincidence that Harold is the uptight one and Kumar's depicted as the weirdo instigator -- or often in terms of kids of immigrants being wealthy/fancy, like the "Persian mafia" in Clueless. Anyway point being young Americans have totally grown up for a while now not feeling TOO much difference between themselves and the children of immigrants their parents would think of as distinctly foreign.)

nabisco on Friday, 23 March 2007 20:40

Though I sit firmly in the camp that the bottle opener's place in a lineage of racist imagery makes it a terrible move on the part of the manufacturer, and that there is a certain level of disingenuousness coming from certain posters here, I think Nabisco makes an interesting point that might put this discussion in new light.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:46 (eighteen years ago)

But ha, Hoos, it's not like you're claiming SPAIN or the UK have so fully integrated a large Afro-Brazilian population that they don't think about these things anymore. (And P.S. on that other thread it's precisely BECAUSE the British feel they've integrated Hindus into society that they're sensitive about convenience-store cliches and comedy accents!)

― nabisco, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:54 (eighteen years ago)

Does the handsome football player get to have an opinion?

― aimurchie, Friday, 23 March 2007 23:56 (eighteen years ago)

Hoos, who is being disingenuous here? The people who seem to have been responsible for the outrage genuinely believe what they're saying - they're expressing surprise and astonishment at the strength of the racist reading of the bottle opener, not because they're racists themselves but because in our culture there's a lot less tangible expression of blackness in terms of history, identity, conflict etc etc. It exists, of course, but outside a couple of concrete examples which have existed within our lifetimes - the Black and White Minstrel Show, say, and Robinson's Golliwogs - we're less programmed to recognise these things.

So it's naive, definitely, ignorant, possibly, but most of all symbolic of a different culture. It's pretty much the definition of ingenuous, which is why I'm baffled that Dan throws around what is actually a pretty insulting word, all the more because he couldn't be more wrong.

― Mark C, Saturday, 24 March 2007 00:06 (eighteen years ago)

they're expressing surprise and astonishment at the strength of the racist reading of the bottle opener, not because they're racists themselves but because in our culture there's a lot less tangible expression of blackness in terms of history, identity, conflict etc etc. It exists, of course, but outside a couple of concrete examples which have existed within our lifetimes - the Black and White Minstrel Show, say, and Robinson's Golliwogs - we're less programmed to recognise these things.

I think you are absolutely correct here, Mark. What I'm referring to, and perhaps disingenousness is the wrong word here, is an attitude of incredulity (mostly displayed early in the thread) that this product has racist undertones. I'm inclined to believe that anyone who doesn't recognize this product's place in a racist lineage and that it thereby has racist undertones is either (as you say)

A) naive
B) ignorant
C) unable to comprehend because of cultural background
D) disingenous

I tend to give ILXors enough credit that I wouldn't consider anyone on this thread naive or ignorant, so obviously we're dealing with C or D here. Though Ethan, for example, might be playing at implying racism because he seems to enjoy that kind of thing, I don't think anyone here is seriously suggesting that the British on this thread are latently racist because of their inability to recognize the egregious racism in the product.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 24 March 2007 00:20 (eighteen years ago)

Although to clarify, I don't think you're absolutely right that "they're expressing surprise and astonishment at the strength of the racist reading of the bottle opener," a good portion of the British here are expressing disagreement with the idea that there are racist undertones to the bottle opener. That's the rub. If it was simply "wow, i hadn't considered that (for whatever reason)" (which I heard from a measly two posters) I'd be silent. But from a good portion of posters we're getting IT'S JUST A BOTTLE OPENER OMG GET OVER IT. I donh't think that should stand.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 24 March 2007 00:33 (eighteen years ago)

I agree with you but I'm not sure who you're referring to (I have read the whole thread, but only once). The people who have been the primary movers on the "what's the fuss" side, like LJ and Ailsa, HAVE recognised the inherent racism.

You have to understand that when a British follower of football (who's not, for the sake of argument, a racist) is asked to consider the things they notice about Ronaldinho's appearance, the importance of various facets goes something like this:

(our of 100)
Big teeth: 98
Happy smile: 10
Long hair: 5
Sleepy eyes: 4
Muscular physique: 3
Blackness: 1

We know he's black; but in the context we know him - which is as one of the most talented footballers ever, whose games and goals we've seen countless times, who we've read about, admired, laughed at - the fact he's black is a virtual non-issue (this isn't disingenuous - it's true, though I can well understand why it's hard to imagine this). It really, honestly, truly is.

There are some Americans on this thread - and not all, as many do know well the footballer Ronaldinho - for whom the thread subject is first and foremost a black man whose most obvious physical feature is one uncomfortably reminiscent of a feature that has been caricatured in an overtly racist way for centuries. So of course they read it differently.

― Mark C, Saturday, 24 March 2007 00:51 (eighteen years ago)

from what i understand, i am white. but that's just what people tell me. i don't see colors.

― modestmickey, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:11 (eighteen years ago)

The people who have been the primary movers on the "what's the fuss" side, like LJ and Ailsa, HAVE recognised the inherent racism.

I'm finding it nearly impossible to square "what's the fuss?" with 'recognising the inherent racism'.

― Matt DC, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:28 (eighteen years ago)

No.
He's gorgeous, whether or not he plays a sport.

I'm sorry, how is he black? He's brown.
His most obvious physical feature is probably his leg(s,) since that's what keeps the fans cheering.
It's a virtual non-issue that he is of multi racial ethnic descent?

I can't believe I'm engaging in this debate, but...
MarkC you are claiming him as if the UK owns him!
That's kind of creepy!

― aimurchie, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:33 (eighteen years ago)

It's a virtual non-issue that he is of multi racial ethnic descent?

uh ethnicity != race

― Curt1s Stephens, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:36 (eighteen years ago)

a black man whose most obvious physical feature is one uncomfortably reminiscent of a feature that has been caricatured in an overtly racist way for centuries

Clarification: it's not that big-teeth caricatures alone have a racist history, it's that grotesque little "comical" figurines of exaggerated non-white people (including, yes, certain mouth things) designed as decorative knick-knacks or to do household work have that history.

If people acknowledge that tacky resemblance, then I'm not sure what they're arguing for on this thread. The reason Horseshoe made that "covering your ass" comment way upthread is that it seems like people's fear of being labeled racists for liking the figurine (which incidentally I don't think anyone has accused anyone of) have them scrambling to dismiss the idea that its contextual weirdness is even worth noting. If those people said "oh, I guess I can see why it's bothersome to some people, even though that wasn't really foremost in my mind," then I don't think there'd be any argument (and I don't think anyone would accuse them of anything at all over it, except just having a different experience and level of attention to these things).

― nabisco, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:40 (eighteen years ago)

otm

although if a friend of yours had this at home AND the michael jordan pestle it would be kind of fucked up

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:52 (eighteen years ago)

*sigh*

nabisco otm.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:53 (eighteen years ago)

what i find astonishing is the idea that britain is somehow "over" race in a way the US is not, given that britain continued to administrate and rule nations full of millions of people with different color skin well into the 20th century; ok britain managed to abolish slavery some 60 years before the US did, and never depended on slavery AT HOME the way the US did, but sheesh, to think that britain's colonial arrangements which in many ways dwarfed anything the US accomplished in terms of long-term institutions of control and droit de signeur, which retained a sort of revolting air of COZINESS to it that the US never bothered with, to think that britain has moved on from the fucked-upness of all this (which included and includes much the same boring litany of dehumanization, objectification and otherizing) just seems like wishful thinking to me; the willful protestations otherwise on this thread just back up this view of mine, i'm afraid

am i wrong in thinking that many of the migrants from india - and the west indies, and africa, you know, all those GOOD BUDDIES of britain - were from the upper classes of the colonized, i.e. members of the elite echelons of the civil service, partners with their british colonial rulers, who were making a trip to the colonial mothership in order to a) further their education b) make more money c) get the hell out of their messed-up neighborhoods? because those are pretty different seeds to sow for a migrant community - even if it was only 20% of colonial migration or whatever - than the US model of just shackling people up and sending them to mississippi and south carolina. and would have different consequences for the subsequent generations, both in how those migrants feel about their adopted homeland and how the people already there feel about them.

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:53 (eighteen years ago)

(and i mean that in a 'dammit why couldn't i have said it that way' sense)

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:53 (eighteen years ago)

yeah nabisco's posts are rough like that

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 24 March 2007 01:58 (eighteen years ago)

it's a rough ol' thread, guys

― gbx, Saturday, 24 March 2007 02:03 (eighteen years ago)

am i wrong in thinking that many of the migrants from india - and the west indies, and africa, you know, all those GOOD BUDDIES of britain - were from the upper classes of the colonized, i.e. members of the elite echelons of the civil service, partners with their british colonial rulers, who were making a trip to the colonial mothership in order to a) further their education b) make more money c) get the hell out of their messed-up neighborhoods?

Not really. The majority of British immigrants came over in the 40s and 50s after the British government put out a "we need workers" request in the colonies. This explains why areas of Britian that were bombed during WWII (London and the Midlands, mainly) have much higher immigration numbers than the north. These guys weren't the elite at all, they were just rank and file workers who ended up getting jobs as bus conductors, cleaners, dustmen... basically all the jobs the post-war English didn't want to do.

What you may be getting confused with is Britian's Indian population does have a lot of middle and upper class immigrants who came via Uganda, after Amin's antics in the 70s.

― Dom Passantino, Saturday, 24 March 2007 02:04 (eighteen years ago)

View source to see the Tracer quote i inserted into a picture tag instead.

― Dom Passantino, Saturday, 24 March 2007 02:06 (eighteen years ago)

And all I'm saying is that we should be celebrating Ronaldinho's legs and feet - since he is such a great football player - and pay less attention to his teeth -which is stupid because the guy is very handsome!
The bottle opener is stupid, and I hope people didn't buy it. It's racist and ugly - and, stupid!
Has Ronaldinho himself weighed in on the bottle opener? That's what I want to know. Also, he had great hair in a few of the photos posted above.

"Ronaldinho sits at a baccarat table in St. Moritz while studying the ILX thread about him. Hmmm, he says - perhaps I SHOULD take that offer in the Los Angeles. But perhaps not.I llick my teeth with anticipation."

― aimurchie, Saturday, 24 March 2007 02:13 (eighteen years ago)

<em>what i find astonishing is the idea that britain is somehow "over" race in a way the US is not</em>

FWIW, I don't think this is something any Briton with any sense would suggest.

― caek, Saturday, 24 March 2007 02:37 (eighteen years ago)

damn this thread!

so late no one will read this but: i think it's obvious the bottle opener is racist (im not only american, but a southerner--that's my context).

on the other hand, we can agree probably that there are NO representations that are in-and-of-themselves racist. it's impossible for a representation to be racist without some cultural or historical context which makes it so. there is no a priori racist iconography.

what seems to be the crux here, then, is that some people are shocked at other people for not sharing or being blithely ignorant of the contexts which make the bottle opener racist, and those who choose to ignore or remain ignorant of this context are aghast that they might be expected to be aware of it.

what makes it difficult for me in judging cases like this is that i am often honestly not sure sometimes if something is racist or not (when in doubt, it probably is!) and if pressed on something like the bottle opener (which issues from a cultural context i dont know much about) i could only answer: "it depends".

― ryan, Saturday, 24 March 2007 02:40 (eighteen years ago)

ha but every time i scroll to the top of this thread i think "damn that's racist!"

― ryan, Saturday, 24 March 2007 02:42 (eighteen years ago)

dom yeah that makes more sense, i don't know why i thought that.

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 24 March 2007 02:47 (eighteen years ago)

Wittgenstein takes it!

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 24 March 2007 02:52 (eighteen years ago)

xpost that is

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 24 March 2007 02:52 (eighteen years ago)

also id just like to throw out my opinion that the idea of "latent" racism doesn't make a lick of sense and should pretty much go away forever!

― ryan, Saturday, 24 March 2007 03:08 (eighteen years ago)

the idea of "latent" racism doesn't make a lick of sense

How are you defining latent racism?

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 24 March 2007 03:42 (eighteen years ago)

lol this thread. i've never been so consistently entertained by reading five or so randomly chosen posts since dave matthews band, why are they so bad and hated.

― strgn, Saturday, 24 March 2007 03:53 (eighteen years ago)

HOOSten, we have a problem!

― Wrinklepaws, Saturday, 24 March 2007 03:54 (eighteen years ago)

how to google-trap football hooligans?

― strgn, Saturday, 24 March 2007 03:56 (eighteen years ago)

omg hi-five strongo

― Wrinklepaws, Saturday, 24 March 2007 03:58 (eighteen years ago)

Can't see how this is rascist...as i doubt the people who sat down to design the bottle opener were thinking to continue the stereotypes from the Darkie toothpaste etc. upthread, rather it's Ronaldinho they were looking to represent. it would be hard to over estimate how much of a big deal this guy is in football around the world, if this isn't your frame of reference then i geuss it sets off rascism warning bells.

Does anyone actually have anything like this? I mean i had a pair of John Barnes shin pads, but a bottle opener, well that's a different league!

― optimus, Saturday, 24 March 2007 05:05 (eighteen years ago)

what i find astonishing is the idea that britain is somehow "over" race in a way the US is not, given that britain continued to administrate and rule nations full of millions of people with different color skin well into the 20th century

Tracer otm; I will admit that this notion gives me the wig and it's probably why I kept posting basically the same thing in this thread repeatedly. I'd wager that there are plenty of nonwhite Britons with ancestral connections to former British colonies that don't think Britain is over race.

― horseshoe, Saturday, 24 March 2007 05:12 (eighteen years ago)

i dont think anyone is suggesting britain is over race. i think people are suggesting that britain and america have different histories in regard to race, which means that different images and representations will have different contexts, and that some will seem much worse and more powerful in one setting than another, and vice versa

cf, for example, there are many such representations that neither brits or americans would recognise (how familiar are we with turkish representations of armenians?)

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 07:14 (eighteen years ago)

I can't believe I'm engaging in this debate, but...
MarkC you are claiming him as if the UK owns him!
That's kind of creepy!

No, I'm not claiming him for the UK at all. If you want to see my posts as making a claim at all, it's as a football fan - as you made clear, it's as a footballer that he's beloved.

― Mark C, Saturday, 24 March 2007 09:19 (eighteen years ago)

Thank you, Mark C, for putting what I wanted to say better than I ever could!

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 12:27 (eighteen years ago)

i think my favorite strand of argument here is "ronaldinho is very famous and well-liked, so how could this be racist"

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 24 March 2007 12:33 (eighteen years ago)

what i find astonishing is the idea that britain is somehow "over" race in a way the US is not

No-one's saying that. Some British people != Britain, neither do some US people = the US.

If those people said "oh, I guess I can see why it's bothersome to some people, even though that wasn't really foremost in my mind," then I don't think there'd be any argument (and I don't think anyone would accuse them of anything at all over it, except just having a different experience and level of attention to these things).

Will I look like I'm trying to defend myself too much if I say "of course I understand why people think this is racist even if I myself do not" (which I have done since way early in this thread, even though I haven't felt I needed to say it)? What would also be nice is if people who *do* see this as racist above anything else could perhaps give a little more credence to those of us who don't, and understand (especially when myself, Mark, Onimo, several others) have clearly explained our thought processes as to why we see it as a fairly effective parody of a well-known and easily-parodied figure and not as OMG RACIST.

His most obvious physical feature is probably his leg(s,) since that's what keeps the fans cheering.

Spot the person who doesn't watch football!

― ailsa, Saturday, 24 March 2007 12:45 (eighteen years ago)

Er, misplaced parentheses and unended sentence there. I meant:

"...and understand (especially when myself, Mark, Onimo & several others have clearly explained our thought processes as to why we see it as a fairly effective parody of a well-known and easily-parodied figure and not as OMG RACIST) that it is not a signifier of any sort of racism inherent in any of us or in the UK as a whole".

Can some Australians or something please have an opinion so as to stop making this so UK vs US (even though some UK ILXors are disagreeing with some of the others, so it isn't anyway).

― ailsa, Saturday, 24 March 2007 12:52 (eighteen years ago)

Muscular physique: 3

After taking over fellow Brazilian Ronaldo's mantle as best player in the world, then his buck tooth throne, he is now being accused of being too fat:

http://www.theoffside.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/ronaldinho-fat.jpg

― onimo, Saturday, 24 March 2007 12:52 (eighteen years ago)

(if that's fat I wish I was)

― onimo, Saturday, 24 March 2007 12:53 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, as well as the US/UK divide there's been a second, complicating one, the soccer fan/non soccer fan schism. that the two have largely overlapped has caused no little confusion/anger.

I'm finding it nearly impossible to square "what's the fuss?" with 'recognising the inherent racism'.

Except we haven't 'recognised the inherent racism'. 'Inherent' racism would imply that the bottle-opener is in itself a racist artefact, an item designed to identify itself with racism. My argument throughout has been that it is not, but that its SIMILARITY to ACTUAL racist memorabilia has, understandably, caused consternation in more than a few people.

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 12:54 (eighteen years ago)

Though the before and after does suggest he's enjoying the good life.

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3421/dinhoam9.jpg

― onimo, Saturday, 24 March 2007 12:55 (eighteen years ago)

haha you guys - ailsa, onimo, lj, barry - it makes no diff whether ronaldinho is good at soccer or not, or whether he is beloved or not

it also makes no diff whether you yourself personally thought "this bottle opener is weirdly suspect" when you saw it, or not, so there is nothing to "defend yourself" about

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 24 March 2007 13:25 (eighteen years ago)

hes a tubby lad these days isnt he?

anyway, just as the mantle has gone from ronaldo to ronaldinho, so it goes to (cristiano) ronaldo?

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 14:50 (eighteen years ago)

is CR really that good though?? maybe he's gotten better? the last time i really paid attention to him was during Euro 2004

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 24 March 2007 15:23 (eighteen years ago)

erm, he's easily been the player of the season in the 06/07 Premiership, so yeah, he is that good!

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 15:28 (eighteen years ago)

I'm weirdly satisfied this thread has moved to actual discussion of the sport.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 24 March 2007 17:03 (eighteen years ago)

i can change that really quickly, if you'd like.

but i won't :)

fwiw, though: i'm far more in tune with what could broadly be described as the US point of view on this thread than with the "UK" one.

― grimly fiendish, Saturday, 24 March 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

Remind us what you think of football, Simon?

― Mark C, Saturday, 24 March 2007 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

i think it's a cancer at the heart of society! fuck's sake, the number of braying morons wandering around the place today chanting unintelligible shit, steamingly pissed two hours before the game (scotland vs georgia, i think; i had to look it up) actually started ... what the fuck is the point in that? GET DRUNK AFTERWARDS, DICKWADS.

i've nothing against the game itself, just everything that goes with it :)

and no, until various images of the guy were posted on this thread, i don't think i'd have recognised ronaldinho if he was kicking me in the balls.

but even now that i've got some idea what the bloke looks like, i still don't see what that fucking travesty of a bottle-opener is meant to resemble at all, except ... well, except something dreadfully and horribly wrong :(

― grimly fiendish, Saturday, 24 March 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

I think the main divide in this thread is the 'those previously acquainted with Ronaldinho/those not', although, again, there are anomalies (such as Matt DC, but that's what you get for being a Spurs fan, I suppose).

Back to football, I suppose it'll thrill you to know that Scotland got an incredibly late winner, so those 'braying morons' will be particularly exultant this fine evening. Especially if the southern pansies cock it up against Israel.

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 17:40 (eighteen years ago)

hurrah! better a cheerful fan than a miserable fan!

and CURSES CURSES i feel a twinge of national pride CHIZ fuck.

and i actually have a tremendous soft-spot for the tartan army; their hordes aren't actually too twattish, as these things go.

― grimly fiendish, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:16 (eighteen years ago)

you're not nearly as bad as our fans. :-(

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

I think the main divide in this thread is the 'those previously acquainted with Ronaldinho/those not'

^^^ i dont think this is the case at all

i think the divide is more along the lines of the things that people are aware of, growing up...not just aware of, but to an extent where it would be realised *immediately*...rather than 'oh yea, i see what you mean now'

this is where stevem and amongst others have brought depictions of south asians in america into the picture, to show a flipside example, though stevem didnt make a particularly convincing case with this

ie...is this kind of imagery...american imagery or not? if so, how cogniscent should non-americans be?

but ^^^ this is really only in regard to initial thoughts,. after its been pointed out, well, you know, the 'its not racist' line kind of is much harder to pursue, the 'i didnt think it was racist at first' line is all about awareness of certain images in first place, and how aware of them people are in different locations.

which means people are defending the 2nd position, but sort of using the first position to defend the 2nd position

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:24 (eighteen years ago)

louis i lived in barcelona so i think i have some semblance of an idea who ronaldinho is and i STILL thought, IMMEDIATELY, that the bottle-opener was more or less unredeemably racist.

― max, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

which kinda makes this discussion somewhere along the lines of

those who think this is racist vs those who didnt notice the racist connotations at first

its ok to admit the 2nd! i didnt think it at first, i just thought, theres ronaldinho again. but...im not the world! i didnt notice a man was running for the bus yesterday, at first. but he was still running. he didnt need to wait for me to notice until he started doing it

i was embarrassed about that too

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

"president bush, i'm sorry to inform you sir, but the british have shot a brazillian on the london subway."

"a brazillian?!? that's a heckuva lot of terr'rists!"

― hstencil, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:30 (eighteen years ago)

i'm fully aware of the iconographic history that this item is being attached to. i just think that the attachment itself is bogus, for the reasons i have outlined.

― Roberto Spiralli, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:31 (eighteen years ago)

argh let's not start again, OKAY IT'S RACIST, now i'm off to listen to the footy :-D

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

i think the divide is more along the lines of the things that people are aware of, growing up...not just aware of, but to an extent where it would be realised *immediately*...rather than 'oh yea, i see what you mean now'

i think this is too kind, really.

― lex pretend, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:36 (eighteen years ago)

Gareth is somewhat OTM, I think. Part of the issue with this thread is that the topic being discussed is not one where anyone wants to admit being wrong, as being wrong either implies A) you are a racist; or B) you are a racist.

― HI DERE, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:41 (eighteen years ago)

well i think lexxy jagger just implied that i was a racist.

are you at the red lion tonite lexxy jagger?

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:46 (eighteen years ago)

actually, for those of you (and, er, well me actually) who didnt think it at first...

...look at the pic again...cover the number 10 brasil shirt with your hand....

...would you immediately think...thats ronaldinho!

i actually...wouldnt.

its only when turned to the side, with the hair, that i might think it (without the shirt)

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

Part of the issue with this thread is that the topic being discussed is not one where anyone wants to admit being wrong

I would just like to point out that I am 1000% OTM on this entire thread.

― g®▲Ðұ, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:50 (eighteen years ago)

ie, put clothes/uniform on a person and your mind does the rest. because as has been said, he doesnt actually have big teeth

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

i wish my craig bellamy and el hadji diouf threads had attracted this much interest

ailsa was wrong on the dioufy thread as well. pretty much everyone was except me, on that one

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

he's famous for having big teeth, whether it's true or not.

the bottle opener is a commercial incarnation of Ronaldinho's worldwide celebrity as an individual with big teeth. if the opener is racially offensive, by extension the notion of a black man being famous for having big teeth is also racially offensive. my sensibilities aren't offended by that, although clearly some people's are, and such is the variety of human experience and understanding. i'm not going to lose sleep over whether that makes me a racist because of course it doesn't.

i'd love to know whether Ronaldinho is racially offended by his fame for having big teeth. if anyone sees him out and about, perhaps they could ask.

― Roberto Spiralli, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:53 (eighteen years ago)

you know, i dont know if hes going to like this at all, im starting to see ronaldinho, and, i dont know if its the hair, but, im thinking

raggetinho

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:58 (eighteen years ago)

^^^^

600 OTM

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 18:58 (eighteen years ago)

omg nedraggettbottleopener.jpg plz

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:16 (eighteen years ago)

An El Hadji Diouf bottle opener that spits at you when you take the beertop off and shouts misogynistic threats of violence at you would be awesome.

― Dom Passantino, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:18 (eighteen years ago)

gareth's argument is v.v.reasonable, btw. and grady is indeed 1000% otm. curse this self-defence mechanism!

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:19 (eighteen years ago)

HAHAHA Dom 5000% OTM

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:19 (eighteen years ago)

^^^ im not with these two, im here by myself

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

180, i am at the red lion 2nite, except i only just realised what the time was, and i have to eat first, also find clothes, also find lil' kim, she is in my room somewhere

― lex pretend, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:32 (eighteen years ago)

lol at 180. stfu lexxy jagger, thats nothing to do with this

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:43 (eighteen years ago)

at least it's ACCURATE unlike...that thing you are calling me

― lex pretend, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:46 (eighteen years ago)

we are as peas in a pod, lex

i take it gareth is comically bad at darts or something

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:47 (eighteen years ago)

rolling 2007 racist bottle opener/uk watercooler thread

― and what, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:48 (eighteen years ago)

I don't see what has the watercooler got to do with this.

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:50 (eighteen years ago)

don't talk to me louis

― lex pretend, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:50 (eighteen years ago)

also the bottle opener isnt racist

― and what, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:50 (eighteen years ago)

aha, you have disowned me because of my distasteful opinions, lex! classy.

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:52 (eighteen years ago)

And who is , Ethan?

― Brigadier Lethbridge-Pfunkboy, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:52 (eighteen years ago)

its 2007! no one is racist! just disingeneuous

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:54 (eighteen years ago)

disingenious

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:55 (eighteen years ago)

isnt that right, lexxy jagger? paris is merely disingenuous

― 600, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:56 (eighteen years ago)

dasani genius

― unfished business, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:56 (eighteen years ago)

hey i found kim! also beer! both under my bed :D

― lex pretend, Saturday, 24 March 2007 19:57 (eighteen years ago)

bottles openers don't shoot people, GUNS DO

― Tracer Hand, Saturday, 24 March 2007 20:13 (eighteen years ago)

this is where stevem and amongst others have brought depictions of south asians in america into the picture, to show a flipside example, though stevem didnt make a particularly convincing case with this

hang on, where did i do this?

― blueski, Sunday, 25 March 2007 12:09 (eighteen years ago)

weirdly someone mentioned this last night, and said it was a plant. something to do with a magazine or something

― 600, Sunday, 25 March 2007 19:08 (eighteen years ago)

raggetinho

It's a vision.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 25 March 2007 19:15 (eighteen years ago)

it always is

― Curt1s Stephens, Sunday, 25 March 2007 19:20 (eighteen years ago)

I am consistent in this regard.

― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 25 March 2007 19:25 (eighteen years ago)

this thread on ILX is number 10 in a Google search for "ronaldinho bottle opener".

"Brazil has released a line of unique bottle openers in the shape of Brazilian soccer star Ronaldinho.
Since the national hero did not manage to pop open any of the gates of the opposing teams during the World Cup let him now succeed in popping the ordinary bottles – decided the Brazilian producers. Such is their reaction to the fruitless presentation of the soccer champion in Germany.
The new product was widely enjoyed by the local torcideros. Such a funny bottle opener equipped with a pair of Ronaldinho’s famous teeth (which are instrumental in the cap popping process) brought smiles and wiped away the tears of bitter disappointment after the recent failure of the nation’s favorite team."

from here

― Roberto Spiralli, Sunday, 25 March 2007 19:30 (eighteen years ago)

The only thing it seems to be able to open is a big ol' can of worms, alas.

― unfished business, Sunday, 25 March 2007 19:34 (eighteen years ago)

It is (as I suspected) Brazilian, however. Hmmm.

― unfished business, Sunday, 25 March 2007 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

five months pass...

um, WOW.

― roxymuzak, Monday, 27 August 2007 01:23 (eighteen years ago)

oh noes..

― W4LTER, Monday, 27 August 2007 01:25 (eighteen years ago)

the cure for common Anglophilia, this one

― milo z, Monday, 27 August 2007 03:37 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.wolles-website.de/makabres_rip/50_rip.gif

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 27 August 2007 03:41 (eighteen years ago)

i dont see whats so offensive about a ronaldinho bottle opener. a coconut opener, now that would be racist.

― ☪, Monday, 27 August 2007 08:58 (eighteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

let us discuss whether the portrayal of Ronaldinho on the Simpsons was as offensive or whatever as the bottle opener:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pou-5Vcv0TE

― Alex in Baltimore, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:32 (eighteen years ago)

nooooooooo

― Just got offed, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:35 (eighteen years ago)

That's Ronaldo, not Ronaldinho. Probably best not to think all black guys look the same on this thread, Alex.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:37 (eighteen years ago)

lolololololol

― HI DERE, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

the brits have pulled another one back

― Just got offed, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

haha my bad. isn't Ronaldinho's real name Ronaldo? I guess I underestimated the odds of there being two black soccer superstars with similiar names and prominent teeth. I mean I'm American, it's not like I know shit about socer.

― Alex in Baltimore, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:40 (eighteen years ago)

Ronaldo's real name: Ronaldo Luis Nazário de Lima
Ronaldinho's real name: Ronaldo de Assís Moreira

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:42 (eighteen years ago)

This is Ronaldo Guiaro, who was known as both Ronaldo and Ronaldinho during his career:

http://www.libero.fm/dbimg/1788_eidhseis.jpg

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:43 (eighteen years ago)

god help us if christiano ronaldo ever achieves fame in the states

― Just got offed, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:44 (eighteen years ago)

Which isn't to mention Ronaldao, who I can't find a picture of.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:45 (eighteen years ago)

i know who christiano ronaldo is

― river wolf, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:51 (eighteen years ago)

― dan m, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:51 (eighteen years ago)

have a goddamn cookie, if you're that knowledgeable you'll tell me who manchester united signed him from WITHOUT consulting wikipedia

― Just got offed, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:56 (eighteen years ago)

he's opening Rooney's bottle here

http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/manu.jpg

― dan m, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:58 (eighteen years ago)

calm down dude

― dan m, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:58 (eighteen years ago)

CLUE: IT WASN'T BENFICA OR PORTO

― Just got offed, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:58 (eighteen years ago)

Louis, do you shout "OOOH I KNOW THIS ONE" when you're at pub quizzes?

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 14 September 2007 19:59 (eighteen years ago)

i have no idea, asshole!

― river wolf, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:00 (eighteen years ago)

enjoy your cookie

― omar little, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:00 (eighteen years ago)

Sporting

― dan m, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:00 (eighteen years ago)

xp to dom: there is, occasionally, a fleeting raise of the eyebrows

DAN GETS A COOKIE

― Just got offed, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:01 (eighteen years ago)

no thanx

― dan m, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:01 (eighteen years ago)

it is a salted oreo, still tempted?

― Just got offed, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:02 (eighteen years ago)

In Brazil both Ronaldo and Ronaldinho are known as Ronaldinho, with Ronaldinho being called Ronaldinho Gaúcho (because he's from the south of Brazil were they have all the cattle) to distinguish them.

― jim, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:03 (eighteen years ago)

Oh wow, so many xposts.

― jim, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:03 (eighteen years ago)

Ronaldinho was named by his parents after famous American Ronald Reagan.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:04 (eighteen years ago)

FACT

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:04 (eighteen years ago)

Or Cristiano Ronaldo or Ronaldo was. I forget.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

It's Cristiano I think.

― jim, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:06 (eighteen years ago)

def. cristiano

― edb, Friday, 14 September 2007 21:24 (eighteen years ago)

High fives.

― jim, Friday, 14 September 2007 21:26 (eighteen years ago)

That's it, I'm going to call him the Gipper from now on.

― dan m, Friday, 14 September 2007 21:29 (eighteen years ago)

Introduce all of the soccer world's Ronaldos to Bush: he will quickly sort them out into Rons, Ronnys, Don Blossoms, and Mentadents.

― nabisco, Friday, 14 September 2007 21:48 (eighteen years ago)

three weeks pass...

http://www.bayocstudio.com/catalog/images/jay_z.jpg

― Dom Passantino, Sunday, 7 October 2007 10:49 (eighteen years ago)

one month passes...

OMG I WANT THIS AMAZING MODEL OF RONALDINHO TAKING A SHIT

http://www.caganer.com/images/caganer_ronaldinho.jpg

― onimo, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 07:13 (seventeen years ago)

(also available in Puyol, Henry, Messi and The Pope http://www.caganer.com/product_info.php?products_id=245 )

― onimo, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 07:13 (seventeen years ago)

Messi, eh.

― Frogman Henry, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 07:37 (seventeen years ago)

Actually Puyol, and The Po(o)pe as well.

― Frogman Henry, Wednesday, 28 November 2007 07:37 (seventeen years ago)

two weeks pass...

LET'S SEE WHAT IRANCARTOON.COM MAKES OF RONNIE:

http://www.irancartoon.com/2005/best/Mehdi-Alibeygi-Iran.jpg

LET'S COMPARE THIS WITH THEIR CONDIE RICE:

http://www.irancartoon.com/2005/best/Cau-Gomes-Brazil2.jpg

― Dom Passantino, Sunday, 16 December 2007 23:44 (seventeen years ago)

Your navel still below your tits is it?

― Ed, Sunday, 16 December 2007 23:45 (seventeen years ago)

ihttp://irancartoon.com/2005/winners/2.jpg

― abanana, Monday, 17 December 2007 00:05 (seventeen years ago)

http://irancartoon.com/2005/winners/2.jpg

― abanana, Monday, 17 December 2007 00:05 (seventeen years ago)

http://irancartoon.com/2005/winners/Omar-Figueroa-Turcios.jpg

― abanana, Monday, 17 December 2007 00:06 (seventeen years ago)

what the shit

― HI DERE, Monday, 17 December 2007 00:06 (seventeen years ago)

was this thread really just last March, or is something wrong with the datestamping? It feels like The Ronaldinho Bottle Opener Thread was actually, like, eons back

― J0hn D., Monday, 17 December 2007 01:54 (seventeen years ago)

OMG I WANT THIS AMAZING MODEL OF RONALDINHO TAKING A SHIT

iirc the caganer (a little figure that shits in the corner of a model of the nativity) is a Catalan tradition and they often use famous people. Oh, wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caganer

― jim, Monday, 17 December 2007 01:57 (seventeen years ago)

Kakkers - The Flemish, Belgian variation of the Caganer

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 17 December 2007 01:59 (seventeen years ago)

http://www.sportcartoons.co.uk/caricatures/jagger.jpg

― blueski, Wednesday, 19 December 2007 12:02 (seventeen years ago)

I'd still REALLY like a Garrincha Corinthian please.

― Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 19 December 2007 13:55 (seventeen years ago)

Here you go:

http://www.glosk.com/photos/UK/74/-3581374/83545_b.jpg

― Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 19 December 2007 13:57 (seventeen years ago)

http://yellowperil.org/bernie/gookie.jpg

― and what, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 18:00 (seventeen years ago)

"Englishes" look at Ronaldinho Bottle Opener and say "haha big teeth", and what looks at it and says "Golliwog" - yet he thinks other people are racist.

-- onimo, Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:14 PM (9 months ago) Bookmark Link

HMMMMMMM???

― s1ocki, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 18:20 (seventeen years ago)

-- unfished business, Thursday, March 22, 2007 4:58 PM (9 months ago) Bookmark Link

― and what, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 18:26 (seventeen years ago)

lol someone needed to take a chill pill

― Just got offed, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 18:27 (seventeen years ago)

Tastiest racist snack = conguitos.

http://www.lacasa.es/web/conguitos/images/conguitos/img_conguitos.jpg

― jim, Tuesday, 25 December 2007 19:12 (seventeen years ago)

three months pass...

technically it's a sippy cup, not a baby's bottle. I don't really know what else to say.

-- horseshoe, Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:24 PM (Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:24 PM) Bookmark Link

This is still really really really funny

― HI DERE, Tuesday, 8 April 2008 18:04 (seventeen years ago)

aw, thread deserved an anniversary revive. i'll put something in my calendar for next year.

― Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 8 April 2008 18:10 (seventeen years ago)

one month passes...

Darkie Toothpaste
www.best-price.com/Toothpaste You are looking for Darkie Toothpaste? We got it - compare and save!

Buy Darkie Toothpaste
www.eBay.com Browse a huge selection now Find exactly what you want today

― and what, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 22:21 (seventeen years ago)

one month passes...

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9601953?source=rv

The manufacturer behind a monkey sock puppet named for presidential candidate Barack Obama said it will not make the toy, which many had called racist.
A West Jordan company, The Sock Obama, contracted with Binkley Toy's, Inc., a custom-toy manufacturer with offices in New York and Ontario, Canada, to mass produce the doll. In a statement on Binkley's Web site, owner Rob Bishop -- who is not related to Utah's Congressman Rob Bishop -- apologized. He said that before the public's outcry of racism, he and his staff did not see any racist connection.

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 17 June 2008 00:05 (seventeen years ago)

two months pass...

I tried to get thee Viceroy to read this thread, and he WOULDN'T! Can you believe it? I think it's quintessential ILX but I GUESS some folks are intimidated or perhaps even bored by 1k+ threads! TLDR syndrome is ruining our nation.

He even asked me to quit AIMinh his dozens of choice quotes. Okay, dude. Whatevs.

― Abbott, Monday, 1 September 2008 21:01 (seventeen years ago)

woah the Mick Jagger pic i posted has changed, and not for the better

― blueski, Monday, 1 September 2008 21:10 (seventeen years ago)

OMG fuck the Obama sock monkey, look at THIS $216 nightmare!16 nightmare!

― Abbott, Monday, 1 September 2008 21:13 (seventeen years ago)

OMG I WANT THIS AMAZING RONALDINHO BOTTLE OPENER

― Roberto Spiralli, Monday, 1 September 2008 22:41 (seventeen years ago)

two weeks pass...

The man, who could eat a melon through a letter box, is a party animal.

― cozen (cozwn), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 16:14 (seventeen years ago)

wau

this thread is still incredibly hilarious to me

― lol (HI DERE), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 16:24 (seventeen years ago)

hahahhaaaa

― CHENG AND ENG PALIN BOOK TOUR (John Justen), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 16:29 (seventeen years ago)

this thread is still amazing.

― CHENG AND ENG PALIN BOOK TOUR (John Justen), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 16:30 (seventeen years ago)

i would like to point out that i have been otm on this thread

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 17:11 (seventeen years ago)

Citteh want this amazing Ronaldinho bottle opener (and drinker).

― aye it's me (onimo), Wednesday, 17 September 2008 17:13 (seventeen years ago)

two months pass...

Oh, der Spiegel's "Europe's Weird Ways" feature, you are the gift that keeps on giving.

EL CAGANER: (S)catalonia's Fecal Christmas Festivities

STARRING, among others, the shitting Christmas Ronaldinho:

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1365498,00.jpg

― Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Friday, 12 December 2008 17:01 (sixteen years ago)

That's nothing at all, really, at all, compared to HOLLAND'S POLITICALLY INCORRECT CHRISTMAS: Santa's Little (Slave) Helper.

― Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Friday, 12 December 2008 17:03 (sixteen years ago)

"Politically incorrect."

― Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Friday, 12 December 2008 17:03 (sixteen years ago)

Barcelona shits:

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1365513,00.jpg

― Abbott of the Trapezoid Monks (Abbott), Friday, 12 December 2008 17:05 (sixteen years ago)

one year passes...

<3 love you boo.

― 80085 (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 16 February 2010 20:28 (fifteen years ago)

i would just like to point out that i have been otm on this thread

LMAO I forgot about this.

― NotEnough, Tuesday, 16 February 2010 21:03 (fifteen years ago)

one month passes...

omg a bonnie prince billy bottle stopper
http://cdn.pitchfork.com/media/bonnie.jpg

― mizzell, Tuesday, 16 March 2010 18:48 (fifteen years ago)

Yes, Nabisco, I can read. Thanks for asking.
― ailsa, Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:16 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ok, can you COMPREHEND what you read. i guess that's the nut of the thing.
― chicago kevin, Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:17 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark

― symsymsym, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 06:29 (fifteen years ago)

the cure for common Anglophilia, this one

― milo z, Sunday, August 26, 2007 8:37 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark

― symsymsym, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 06:30 (fifteen years ago)

guys, its called DARLIE now.

― g®▲Ðұ, Thursday, March 22, 2007 6:27 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark

^^^ 100% classic material

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 06:45 (fifteen years ago)

wait I don't get how the bottle opener is racist??

― I request "Fireflies" (dyao), Wednesday, 17 March 2010 09:46 (fifteen years ago)

― ilxor lookin' boy (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 17 March 2010 09:48 (fifteen years ago)

;) damn nobody took the bait

― I request "Fireflies" (dyao), Wednesday, 17 March 2010 10:20 (fifteen years ago)

BUT I present to you:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4055/4273037125_005cd8c191_o.jpg

― I request "Fireflies" (dyao), Wednesday, 17 March 2010 10:20 (fifteen years ago)

I JUST PUT DOWN A RACIST BOTTLE OPENER WELL THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THE SORT OF THING YOU'D WANT TO BE SEEN WITH NO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND A RACIST BOTTLE OPENER IS THE NAME OF MY DOG

― MPx4A, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 10:26 (fifteen years ago)

omfg xp

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 16:27 (fifteen years ago)

I doubt anyone can find a better piece of football memorablia.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:52 PM (2 years ago)

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 16:28 (fifteen years ago)

amazing! the things people write eh!?!

― mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2010 16:29 (fifteen years ago)

what ilx2 needed was a britisher vs american race debate that also involves soccer

― ghost rider, Thursday, March 22, 2007 1:59 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

RIP

― max, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 16:32 (fifteen years ago)

its just a classic moment of pre-clusterfuck innocense

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 16:33 (fifteen years ago)

innocence too

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 16:33 (fifteen years ago)

RIP, me

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU LIMEY RETARD

― Mr. Que, Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:00 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 16:34 (fifteen years ago)

come back, Mr Que ;_;

― ilxor lookin' boy (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 17 March 2010 16:36 (fifteen years ago)

great thread to read while eating ben and gerry's black and tan ice cream for st patrick's day

― caek, Wednesday, 17 March 2010 16:42 (fifteen years ago)

omg i want this amazing ian paisley bottle opener

― mdskltr (blueski), Wednesday, 17 March 2010 16:46 (fifteen years ago)

http://www.carrollsirishgifts.com/images/products/112393.jpg

― Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 17 March 2010 17:01 (fifteen years ago)

^ possibly Damien Duff?

― Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Farting in Space (NickB), Wednesday, 17 March 2010 17:05 (fifteen years ago)

gbx's contributions to this thread still A+

― ilxor lookin' boy (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 17 March 2010 17:19 (fifteen years ago)

god, i don't know how you Yanks got through the whole Tiger Woods ordeal. Black man describes self as 'spaz', USA ILXors' heads simultaneously implode!

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 20:11 (2 years ago) Bookmark

^^^suggest ban

― ilxor lookin' boy (acoleuthic), Wednesday, 17 March 2010 17:19 (fifteen years ago)

two months pass...

http://media.philly.com/images/300*265/20100527_inq_ajohn27z-a.JPG

Ryan Howard Garden Gnome Giveaway

― mookieproof, Thursday, 27 May 2010 21:31 (fifteen years ago)

one month passes...

MLS owner hints Ronaldinho will sign for Galaxy

― naus, Monday, 19 July 2010 03:40 (fifteen years ago)

three months pass...

http://www.toonpool.com/user/1991/files/andres_iniesta_caricature_405285.jpg

― Terminal Boredoms (nakhchivan), Thursday, 4 November 2010 00:26 (fourteen years ago)

two months pass...

Was in some general fancy goods/clothes type shop, can't even fucking remember which one (it was v boring), saw a stand containing these anyway:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_levfx1h34P1qb206z.jpg

OMG, "Diana Wash" sounds somewhat like "Diana Ross" DYGI? My first thought on looking at it was uh, that looks nothing like princess diana, IDGI. Then I got it. I don't recall Diana Ross ever having a big afro haircut, though.

― Pashmina, Saturday, 15 January 2011 14:05 (fourteen years ago)

srsly?
http://www.glamour.com/images/beauty/2009/03/0301-diana-ross-hair_li.jpg

but uh yeah that is kinda weird

― bernard snowy, Saturday, 15 January 2011 14:08 (fourteen years ago)

seven months pass...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-79oWdDRrkMY/TXnGKEUt17I/AAAAAAAABv4/x0hcz2Pnl-I/03032011647.jpg

(as seen here)

― õ_Ò (Pillbox), Saturday, 10 September 2011 16:36 (fourteen years ago)

I can't believe this thread only scraped 1000 posts

― MPx4A, Saturday, 10 September 2011 16:52 (fourteen years ago)

I saw those Diana Wash things in a... I wanna say Matalan.

As an afficiando of all things kooky, fun and afros, I wanted one until I realised that scrubbing dishes sucks.

― Pohnny Jolo (buckatee91), Saturday, 10 September 2011 22:38 (fourteen years ago)

one month passes...

Watching Breakfast At Tiffany's for the first time. Fucking hell. Mickey Rooney.

― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 24 October 2011 19:51 (fourteen years ago)

Didn't quite get the extent of America's issue with this until now.

― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 24 October 2011 19:51 (fourteen years ago)

with what

― conrad, Monday, 24 October 2011 19:57 (fourteen years ago)

Yellowface.

― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Monday, 24 October 2011 19:59 (fourteen years ago)

http://www.ioffer.com/search/items/black%20americana%20bottle%20opener

― lol waggoner (am0n), Monday, 24 October 2011 20:23 (fourteen years ago)

five months pass...

Witness at Berlusconi trial in Rome claims Italy's ex-PM watched a striptease by a woman wearing a football shirt and ... a Ronaldinho mask

― mizzell, Tuesday, 17 April 2012 15:11 (thirteen years ago)

Product mentioned upthread, but useful to have Daily Mail's input on this:

They're not exactly politically correct, are they? Race row after Afro washing up sponges go on sale

Paladone said the range had been a phenomenal success since hitting the shelves. But its attempts to give the humble cleaning implement a funky 70s disco makeover seems to have backfired.

― jlgt, Friday, 27 April 2012 06:14 (thirteen years ago)

http://1.2.3.9/bmi/i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/04/26/article-2135711-12C6B06B000005DC-997_634x529.jpg

― jlgt, Friday, 27 April 2012 06:19 (thirteen years ago)

I was thinking of this thread when I read the essay linked on the "Is This Racist?" thread about the Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia. http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/collect/

These anti-black depictions were routinely manifested in or on material objects: ashtrays, drinking glasses, banks, games, fishing lures, detergent boxes, and other everyday items ~~like that bottle opener, obviously, ffs!~~

― we are not bemused (onimo), Friday, 27 April 2012 10:17 (thirteen years ago)

Did Scik Mouthy ever get one of these amazing Ronaldinho bottle openers?

― btw didn't i braek ur heart (NickB), Friday, 27 April 2012 10:21 (thirteen years ago)

I think he got a golden troll doll instead.

― we are not bemused (onimo), Friday, 27 April 2012 10:22 (thirteen years ago)

I actually went as far as taking a photo of one of those sponges in a shop window several months back, w/ a mind to bump this thread, but either forgot or couldn't be bothered

lol @ the Mail seeking a quote for this from a spokesperson for UAF

― wring wring wring wring wring wring wring wring homophone (DJ Mencap), Friday, 27 April 2012 10:33 (thirteen years ago)

http://i.imgur.com/OMdhl.jpg

― tebow kortwa (nakhchivan), Thursday, 10 May 2012 20:15 (thirteen years ago)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/ronnie438.jpg

― btw didn't i braek ur heart (NickB), Thursday, 10 May 2012 21:01 (thirteen years ago)

four months pass...

Gary

A TFF elder
Members
1,792 posts

Location:Liverpool
Supports:Stranraer FC

Offline

Posted 10 August 2003 - 12:43 PM

Good player Reizeger and this proposed transfers been suggested for a good while. I wouldnt say Michael Reizeger is ugly but you could open a bottle of Bud on those buck teeth of his!

― Au Wazza Balcazar (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 21:57 (thirteen years ago)

Which Ronaldo? If you mean the bloke who could open a bottle of beer with his teeth (easily) then is Real Madrid again. Come to think of it you won't go far wrong with Real Madrid. The bench probably costs more than most clubs (not just the price of the players). When I say bench I obviously mean the substitutes that sit on the sidelines during a game. Not a piece of wood....

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing

Dai Dare

Joined: Tue May 11th 2004
Location: France

― Au Wazza Balcazar (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Tuesday, 9 October 2012 21:59 (thirteen years ago)

one month passes...

motherload of crazyee----> http://www.badassmotherfuckers.org/

― limited holiday edition eggnog (soda), Friday, 16 November 2012 02:44 (twelve years ago)

nine months pass...

http://news.panasonic.net/stories/2011/0816_6210.html

― There are a lot of subjective opinions (Nilmar Honorato da Silva), Sunday, 25 August 2013 23:51 (twelve years ago)

four weeks pass...

http://soccerly.com/article/Oliben/an-inside-look-at-ronaldinhos-new-teeth

― how's life, Sunday, 22 September 2013 20:40 (twelve years ago)

two months pass...

http://i.imgur.com/5eYhx9a.jpg

― ۩, Saturday, 30 November 2013 16:22 (eleven years ago)

this thread is a nice reminder of how far ilx has come in just a few years btw

― k3vin k., Saturday, 30 November 2013 16:39 (eleven years ago)

seven months pass...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BrieEXGIQAArTat.jpg

― avicii usque ad arse (imago), Thursday, 3 July 2014 01:34 (eleven years ago)

oh lol i didn't fucking see 2 posts ago

― avicii usque ad arse (imago), Thursday, 3 July 2014 01:34 (eleven years ago)

was coming here to post same lol

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 3 July 2014 13:56 (eleven years ago)

not enough ronaldinho itt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83rinbq_8uI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Evi9y74A0s

― ogmor, Thursday, 3 July 2014 16:54 (eleven years ago)

just a fucking bottle opener ffs

― cpt navajo (darraghmac), Thursday, 3 July 2014 16:58 (eleven years ago)

three weeks pass...

we have two of those suarez bottle openers in the office. the owners are argentinian and mexican.

― koogs, Thursday, 24 July 2014 12:24 (eleven years ago)

Please someone explain clearly to me, because I am clearly an idiot, exactly *how* this is racist.
― ailsa, Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:26 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol (not directed at you koogs)

― marcos, Thursday, 24 July 2014 14:16 (eleven years ago)

also DJP's post needs to be in the first response hall of fame if it is not already

― marcos, Thursday, 24 July 2014 14:18 (eleven years ago)

i love that the first three posts so clearly demarcate the lines of the oncoming clusterfuck

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 24 July 2014 14:56 (eleven years ago)

*incredulousness*
*unflappable enthusiasm*

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 24 July 2014 14:56 (eleven years ago)

looking like ronaldinho is racist now

― your favourite misread ILX threads (darraghmac), Thursday, 24 July 2014 15:24 (eleven years ago)

two months pass...

http://deadspin.com/yasiel-puig-uses-his-mouth-to-open-two-beers-at-the-sam-1639231462

― who cares? the moon sucks. (The Yellow Kid), Friday, 26 September 2014 20:55 (eleven years ago)

I have to assume all the british posters at the start of this thread are paying tribute to stewart lee's routine about jimmy hill by acting out the part of hill

I have to

― Onan Pullett (wins), Friday, 26 September 2014 22:40 (eleven years ago)

every few months i skimread through this thread

― nakhchivan, Friday, 26 September 2014 22:41 (eleven years ago)

at last, some good humour to defuse the situation! some of you highly-strung types ought to learn a lesson from this. looking at you, ethan.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:58 (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU LIMEY RETARD

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:58 (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― nakhchivan, Friday, 26 September 2014 22:41 (eleven years ago)

2 weeks pass...

let us discuss whether the portrayal of Ronaldinho on the Simpsons was as offensive or whatever as the bottle opener:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pou-5Vcv0TE

― Alex in Baltimore, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:32 (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nooooooooo

― Just got offed, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:35 (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's Ronaldo, not Ronaldinho. Probably best not to think all black guys look the same on this thread, Alex.

― Dom Passantino, Friday, 14 September 2007 20:37 (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― nakhchivan, Friday, 26 September 2014 22:44 (eleven years ago)

the duration and recapitulation of the arguments here is quite something, mostly one would expect a 1000 page thread like this to be perhaps 400 posts of argument, 200 posts of partially related sniping and then a long cadenza of meta and periodic reminiscence

in this thread people are still trying to determine whether or not the ronaldinho bottle opener might, in fact, be racist after about 850 posts

― nakhchivan, Friday, 26 September 2014 22:48 (eleven years ago)

I don't think I've got that far although there are always a couple of die-hards no

― Onan Pullett (wins), Friday, 26 September 2014 22:56 (eleven years ago)

like the japanese guy who thinks it's still ww2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MW0U4UER2c

― Onan Pullett (wins), Friday, 26 September 2014 22:58 (eleven years ago)

first response hall of fame

― horseshoe, Friday, 26 September 2014 23:01 (eleven years ago)

the thing is so grotesque and repellent, quite why anyone would want such an object even if it weren't racist

http://i.imgur.com/F1DwB95.jpg

― nakhchivan, Friday, 26 September 2014 23:07 (eleven years ago)

i dont know who the fuck ronaldinho is but im pretty sure i saw that bottle opener at the end of 'bamboozled'
― and what, Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:55 AM (7 years ago)

― sarahell, Saturday, 27 September 2014 00:00 (eleven years ago)

it's been nice shitting with you guys

― Onan Pullett (wins), Saturday, 27 September 2014 12:38 (eleven years ago)

Paul Robinson Chin Ironing BoardWayne Rooney Dog-Training KitMichael Carrick Diaper Dollie with Real Wets-Itself ActionSuper Nail-Bashing Hammer with Michael Owen's Face (Peen End) and Gary Neville's Face (Claw End)

underrated post

― 💪😈⚠️ (DJP), Saturday, 27 September 2014 18:06 (eleven years ago)

this was a coming of age, of sorts

― pretentious over rated bloody old rubbish (imago), Saturday, 27 September 2014 18:10 (eleven years ago)

would like to stake an inarguable claim for Most Improved

― pretentious over rated bloody old rubbish (imago), Saturday, 27 September 2014 18:11 (eleven years ago)

damn shd have been

i would like to point out that i am the Most Improved

― pretentious over rated bloody old rubbish (imago), Saturday, 27 September 2014 18:11 (eleven years ago)

did it ever get conclusively established whether the bottle opener was racist

― Spirit of Match Game '76 (silby), Saturday, 27 September 2014 19:06 (eleven years ago)

the only thing to be said in defence of the 'not racist' crowd is that the sort of iconography it duplicates is not quite as familiar in england, and where it does occur it doesn't look quite the same

largely because unlike the people who came up with darlie toothpaste et al, its authors would never have seen any black people so instead of a sort of monstrous deformation of the familiar, they are more purely fictive, rather like the chinoiserie figurines of the 18th and early 19th century

that doesn't explain the way people were still defending it even when its character was amply demonstrated though

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 19:26 (eleven years ago)

the priggish bullheadedness of imbecile youth obvs

― pretentious over rated bloody old rubbish (imago), Saturday, 27 September 2014 19:28 (eleven years ago)

true, although most of the rest don't have access to that defence

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 19:31 (eleven years ago)

louis when I was reading this thread from the beginning I didn't realise that unfished business was you which has not been the case with any of your other noms de theatre so you may have a point

― Onan Pullett (wins), Saturday, 27 September 2014 20:06 (eleven years ago)

obviously most of the world is oblivious to how race functions in brazil but it's sort of peculiar how people who do not identify as black/preto (iirc ronaldinho identifies as pardo/mixed or mb moreno) are considered black elsewhere. there's an argument that within brazil the distinction doesn't really change how ppl are treated, and it's certainly more true abroad wrt anti-black racism; ronaldinho was called an ape by a mexican politician recently (he's moved to queretaro)

it feels worth noting that ronaldinho had cosmetic dental surgery last year

― ogmor, Saturday, 27 September 2014 21:26 (eleven years ago)

theres only a vague correlation between how brazilian people identify themselves racially and their ancestry

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 21:28 (eleven years ago)

very much doubt whether ronaldinho identifies as 'pardo' though

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 21:29 (eleven years ago)

well obv ancestry is so mixed compared to most countries that any categories are going to be especially arbitrary and loose. can't find the bit about ronaldinho's identification but suspect it was on this blog - http://blackwomenofbrazil.co/

― ogmor, Saturday, 27 September 2014 21:42 (eleven years ago)

they arent quite as arbitrary as all that and it very much depends on what part of the country, rio grande do sul where he comes from has large populations of german, swiss, polish people etc and a different sort of identity to equatorial brazil, ronaldinho is i think petit-bourgeois by birth unlike most famous brazilian players which would shift his terms of identification somewhat but id imagine he would still be de facto classified as preto by most

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 21:53 (eleven years ago)

there's a lot of debate on that brazilian blog about self-identification vs perceptions & how/if/to what extent ppl distance themselves from blackness. the number of brazilians identifying as preto has shrunk a lot & it's an issue for anti-racist campaigners

― ogmor, Saturday, 27 September 2014 22:12 (eleven years ago)

my favourite ronaldinho goals

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 23:41 (eleven years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O3otJu2FWE

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 23:43 (eleven years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74i9cSi-WxU

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 23:44 (eleven years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns7lkn3Gahs

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 23:44 (eleven years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEiMWZEns1s

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 23:45 (eleven years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZkJnsADaww

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 23:45 (eleven years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZkJnsADaww

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 23:46 (eleven years ago)

that should be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m6mz0-hlFc

― nakhchivan, Saturday, 27 September 2014 23:47 (eleven years ago)

four months pass...

Ronaldinho has made 14 appearances in all competitions - scoring only three goals and making two assists.

However, the Mexican club's fitness coach Roberto Bassagaisteguy recently revealed the 34-year-old hasn't been pulling his weight in training.

''He doesn't do physical exercise,' Bassagaisteguy said of Ronaldinho. 'I can't force him to run because he doesn't like it. He does special exercises with special players. I know what they like.

― no love deb weep (nakhchivan), Saturday, 14 February 2015 22:16 (ten years ago)

Kabuscorp president Kangamba expects Ronaldinho to be plying his trade in Girabola - the top division of Angolan football - at the halfway mark of 2015.

"It's a certainty. We are negotiating, but Ronaldinho has to terminate the contract with his current club, and then be able to join us in June," Kangamba told Public Television Angola (PTA) .

"You may ask why I picked Ronaldinho... Well, I want quality in my squad."

If Ronaldinho does complete a move to Kabuscorp, he would follow in the footsteps of former team-mate Rivaldo, who joined the club on a one-year deal in 2012.

― no love deb weep (nakhchivan), Saturday, 14 February 2015 22:16 (ten years ago)

six months pass...

Ideas for ILX
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (1776 of them)

― Nilmar Honorato da Silva, Wednesday, 9 September 2015 23:18 (ten years ago)

four weeks pass...

http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/soccer/brazil-football-legend-ronaldinho-crashes-car-gets-snapped-in-tearyeyed-selfie-20151007-gk3518.html

― écorché (S-), Thursday, 8 October 2015 02:00 (ten years ago)

three months pass...

Saw this bit of questionable kitchen equipment in Primark yesterday:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41oVOKUr9sL._SY300_.jpg

― bored at work (snoball), Friday, 8 January 2016 20:02 (nine years ago)

seven months pass...

Progress!

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2016/08/09/red-sox-deem-david-ortiz-bobblehead-racially-insensitive/qwAnoxGz56oV5pxohgrFuM/story.html

― Don't boo, vote (DJP), Thursday, 11 August 2016 14:06 (nine years ago)

In unprintable language, Ortiz said he agreed with the team’s decision.

I want to know what he said!

― horseshoe, Thursday, 11 August 2016 15:32 (nine years ago)

I'm going to go with "What the fuck is this shit?"

― Don't boo, vote (DJP), Thursday, 11 August 2016 15:36 (nine years ago)

Two versions of the bobblehead were made. The Red Sox found both unacceptable.

Good Lord, what did the first one look like?

― pplains, Thursday, 11 August 2016 15:37 (nine years ago)

nine months pass...

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/how-america-bought-and-sold-racism/

― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 22 May 2017 08:53 (eight years ago)

one month passes...

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/football-legend-ronaldinho-pictured-with-chechen-leader-ramzan-kadyrov-accused-by-canada-of-a3589721.html

― sarahell, Monday, 17 July 2017 19:19 (eight years ago)

oops

― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 17 July 2017 19:21 (eight years ago)

There's a more general purpose Ronaldinho thred fwiw
Ronaldinho

― nashwan, Monday, 17 July 2017 20:00 (eight years ago)

i almost posted that recent horrendously ugly statue of ronaldo here

― brimstead, Monday, 17 July 2017 20:36 (eight years ago)

nine months pass...

WHATEVER, ASSHOLES, SIPPY CUPS HAVE TO BE SHAPED A CERTAIN WAY!
― horseshoe, Thursday, March 22, 2007 5:25 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 23 April 2018 02:55 (seven years ago)

Galaxy brain thoughts right there

― valorous wokelord (silby), Monday, 23 April 2018 03:19 (seven years ago)

seven months pass...

Thanks to #blackface @Prada, now you can take #sambo home with you for the holidays #StopRacism #StopBlackface #StopPrada pic.twitter.com/5t2cvosLIF
— Chinyere Ezie (@lawyergrrl) December 13, 2018

― (•̪●) (carne asada), Saturday, 15 December 2018 01:56 (six years ago)

Oh ok

― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Saturday, 15 December 2018 02:05 (six years ago)

nine months pass...

bernardo silva would like to point out he has been otm in this thread

― imago, Monday, 23 September 2019 11:05 (six years ago)

send him my best!

― treeship., Monday, 23 September 2019 11:52 (six years ago)

primo

― imago, Monday, 23 September 2019 11:53 (six years ago)

one month passes...

Just got out of a meeting where I had to explain to our management team from Germany that naming our extended Black Friday sale "Black Week" was maybe not a good idea.

― (•̪●) (carne asada), Friday, 22 November 2019 17:56 (five years ago)

hahahahahahahahaha

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Friday, 22 November 2019 18:12 (five years ago)

"Come on in, the savings are SPOOKY GOOD!"

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Friday, 22 November 2019 18:13 (five years ago)

oh no

― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Friday, 22 November 2019 18:18 (five years ago)

"Let's call a spade a spade; you'd have to be a total monkey to pass up these deals! N****r!"

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Friday, 22 November 2019 18:23 (five years ago)

got them to settle on "Our week long Black Friday sale" literally hours before they sent the blast out to like 25,000 customers.

― (•̪●) (carne asada), Friday, 22 November 2019 18:28 (five years ago)

I couldn't find a more appropriate thread for this: https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/02/tech/amazon-auschwitz-products-removed-scli-intl/index.html

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Monday, 2 December 2019 18:30 (five years ago)

Selling "Christmas ornaments" with images of Auschwitz does not seem appropriate. Auschwitz on a bottle opener is rather disturbing and disrespectful. We ask @amazon to remove the items of those suppliers. https://t.co/0uG2JG558e pic.twitter.com/ucZoTWPk1W
— Auschwitz Memorial (@AuschwitzMuseum) December 1, 2019

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Monday, 2 December 2019 18:31 (five years ago)

the pitfalls of algorithmic products.

― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Monday, 2 December 2019 18:32 (five years ago)

ha you stole my coda

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Monday, 2 December 2019 18:32 (five years ago)

I have to applaud Auschwitz Memorial's stone-faced reaction to this horrifying shit:

Sadly, it is not over yet @amazon. The "Massacre Auschwitcz (!) Birkenau Jewish Death" mousepad is another disturbing online product. We are not sure if @yadvashem would like the "Christmas ornament" with a freight car used for deporting Jews for extermination either. https://t.co/qDEEzqzwSU pic.twitter.com/wXExhFZPmV
— Auschwitz Memorial (@AuschwitzMuseum) December 1, 2019

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Monday, 2 December 2019 18:33 (five years ago)

The "Massacre Auschwitcz (!) Birkenau Jewish Death" mousepad is another disturbing online product.

This is a strong contender for Understatement of the Year

― brigadier pudding (DJP), Monday, 2 December 2019 18:34 (five years ago)

Kind of glad there wasn't a more appropriate thread for it? This one barely is tbh.

In the wake of DJP's link, there were some local stories here consisting of the same "bad taste" element. Online vendors pull xmas stuff or postcards or canvas posters that were "decorated" w/ images of concentration camps. Any morality is lost on bots (and those who let bots roam free), but I've seen shops online presenting posters/stickers/canvas etc with questionable content before. Basically, the "store" works as follows: if it's an image that exists on the internet, we can print it for you on X, look: here's an example.

xps all otm

― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 2 December 2019 18:36 (five years ago)

one year passes...

I'm in a facebook group that documents US conservatives' weird obsession with AOC, and there were some bottle opener images recently that gave me flashbacks to this thread (especially with the handful of "I don't see how that's racist" replies).

Just goes to show, the real divide on the "Racist trinkets: classic or dud?" issue has never been UK/US

― Mark E. Smith died this year. Or, maybe last year. (bernard snowy), Saturday, 13 February 2021 14:29 (four years ago)

(AOC = Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the popular young Democratic congresswoman from NYC. Sorry I didn't spell it out in my post!)

― Mark E. Smith died this year. Or, maybe last year. (bernard snowy), Saturday, 13 February 2021 14:34 (four years ago)

denial about UK racism is off the charts in this thread

― Left, Saturday, 13 February 2021 17:20 (four years ago)

also i don't speak dutch but i imagine the zwarte piet debates are pretty much the same

― Left, Saturday, 13 February 2021 17:22 (four years ago)

eight months pass...

I... Idk about this new drink at a thematic bar in Santiago. pic.twitter.com/clPU5LPLxV
— SuperheroesInColor (@HeroesInColor00) November 10, 2021

― peace, man, Thursday, 11 November 2021 14:14 (three years ago)

― talkin' about his flat tire (DJP), Thursday, 11 November 2021 15:31 (three years ago)

six months pass...

Spotted this variety of kale on display yesterday at the Chelsea Flower Show ffs.

― Madchen, Thursday, 26 May 2022 09:27 (three years ago)

three years pass...

https://www.out.com/news/tiktok-blackface-ksi-labubu

― jaymc, Monday, 4 August 2025 23:20 (two months ago)

Labubus rank pretty high on 'Things I just don't care about'

― Andy the Grasshopper, Monday, 4 August 2025 23:28 (two months ago)

I just kept reading that article going “holy fuck I’m old”

― my favorite herbs are fennel and Drake (DJP), Tuesday, 5 August 2025 02:40 (two months ago)

I feel like I'm on Match Game.

"'The Tiktok lady turned her {BLANK} black, garnering accusations of racism.' Plains?"

"Um, her face?"

"Be more specific."

"Huh? Uh..."

"I'll read the card again. 'The Tiktok lady...'"

― pplains, Tuesday, 5 August 2025 03:08 (two months ago)

Scrolling through the opening exchanges of this thread anticipating my own entry into the fray is like waiting for the drop in a late period Scott Walker song

― imago, Tuesday, 5 August 2025 07:22 (two months ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.