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Best Coen Brothers movie

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Joel and Ethan, everyone loves them (don't they?), but which is the pick of the bunch? Is it a Fargone conclusion?

Poll Results

OptionVotes
The Big Lebowski 49
Fargo 26
Barton Fink 20
Raising Arizona 12
Miller's Crossing 12
The Hudsucker Proxy 10
O Brother, Where Art Thou? 10
Blood Simple 5
The Man Who Wasn't There 1
Intolerable Cruelty 0
The Ladykillers0


― Billy Dods, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:34 (eighteen years ago)

I think you'll find far from everybody loves them. I do tho, at least up to The Ladykillers, which is pretty shitty.

― Noodle Vague, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:41 (eighteen years ago)

I rank my four faves in the following order, tho the top spot changes depending on mood.

1) Miller's Crossing
2) Barton Fink
3) The Hudsucker Proxy
4) Raising Arizona

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:43 (eighteen years ago)

law of diminishing returns seriously in effect with these guys too wtf.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 22:43 (eighteen years ago)

raising arizona has diminishing returns?

― cutty, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 23:54 (eighteen years ago)

i could watch the ten minute introduction to the film every day and not get tired of it. and the ending, the ending!

― cutty, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 23:55 (eighteen years ago)

raising arizona is the only great movie they ever made, and it is really, really great. i saw miller's crossing again recently and was shocked by how totally empty and just... nothing it was. that's their steez though, all portent, no payoff.

― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 3 April 2007 23:57 (eighteen years ago)

Crossing/Lebowski tie for first

― Oilyrags, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:07 (eighteen years ago)

first what?

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:10 (eighteen years ago)

first favorite

― Oilyrags, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:11 (eighteen years ago)

sorry, these guys just make me pine for the good old days when insanely talented filmmakers with absolutely nothing to say had a studio system that gave them durable scripts and made them stick to the point. yes, i am hitler.

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:15 (eighteen years ago)

Hudsucker may not be best, but it's definitely the most underrated.

Lebowski is awful.

― milo z, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:28 (eighteen years ago)

I love Hudsucker!

― Abbott, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:34 (eighteen years ago)

I LOVE YOU BUT I'VE CHOSEN BARTON.

I think I made a mistake.

― Abbott, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:35 (eighteen years ago)

Blood Simple just edging it for me. Then again, I haven't seen it in a while. Does it suck?

― Matt #2, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:40 (eighteen years ago)

the dude abides... and our cat is named nathan jr.
m.

― msp, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:41 (eighteen years ago)

they are finishing an adaptaion now for cormac mccarthy's "no country for old man".
maybe this will be their best film? the story is sooooo cohen's..
(ive chosen "barton fink")

― Zeno, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:44 (eighteen years ago)

sonnenfeld was their secret weapon

― rps, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:45 (eighteen years ago)

bar-ton fink! bar-ton fink!

― rio natsume, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:51 (eighteen years ago)

ahh fargo, obvious and safe

― deej, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 00:52 (eighteen years ago)

i have been killfiled, haven't i

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:14 (eighteen years ago)

1. fargo
2. raising arizona
3. lebowski

― Ms Misery, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:20 (eighteen years ago)

as much as i love lebowski & fink, fargo is the only perfect movie

― and what, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:33 (eighteen years ago)

raising arizona is basically my name is earl

― and what, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:33 (eighteen years ago)

arayghgh you did not just say that

― deeznuts, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:35 (eighteen years ago)

these guys just make me pine for the good old days when insanely talented filmmakers with absolutely nothing to say had a studio system that gave them durable scripts and made them stick to the point.

yeah, this seems kind of otm, loath as I am to admit it. I have never been able to sit through O Brother, Where Art Thou, and I think it's because of this. still, I've never seen Fink; that one seems pretty weighty.

also, I love John Goodman so much I will forever be grateful to the Coen brothers for giving him a ton of work.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:37 (eighteen years ago)

O Brother towers over everything else they done in the last 10 years. At least it's a good Christmas Day family movie and has a great soundtrack.

― milo z, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:39 (eighteen years ago)

i picked lebowski because i've seen it about a quarter billion times and i don't want to think i've wasted my time

― gff, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:40 (eighteen years ago)

"at least its a good christmas day family movie" = you think the coen brothers are complete horseshit, correct?

xpost gff otm

― deeznuts, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:41 (eighteen years ago)

'intolerable cruelty' is awesome, somebody should pick that.

― gff, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:42 (eighteen years ago)

why do people hate Lebowski? is it just the obsessive fans? that movie makes me so happy!

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:43 (eighteen years ago)

obsessive fans + dull + not actually funny

― milo z, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:43 (eighteen years ago)

even if big lebowski was nothing but Jeff Bridges speaking in that amazing voice, I think I would love it.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:46 (eighteen years ago)

haha i did forget last 10 years only = like past 4 flicks. still o brother where are thou is great & the man who wasnt there & intolerable cruelty are criminally underrated.

ps no i am genuinely not a coen bros fanboy

― deeznuts, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 01:46 (eighteen years ago)

I remember being shocked at how boring I found Blood Simple.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 02:04 (eighteen years ago)

But then, I was drunk. Maybe I'll give it a sober run some time.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 02:04 (eighteen years ago)

people who quote big lebowski = dud. still a good film though.

― rio natsume, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 02:06 (eighteen years ago)

that shit was stoner's delight when i was like 14

― rio natsume, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 02:09 (eighteen years ago)

people who smoke a roach the dude style for jokes = totally classic

― rio natsume, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 02:12 (eighteen years ago)

I remember being shocked at how boring I found Blood Simple.

-- BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, April 3, 2007 10:04 PM (9 minutes ago)

this is a genuine hoosteen otm

― and what, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 02:14 (eighteen years ago)

Which Coen bros somebody loves/hates = some kind of Rorschach test

For me, it's The Big L all the way.

― James Redd and the Blecchs, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 02:22 (eighteen years ago)

blood simple is so intricately put together. in every scene at least one of the characters is acting based on mistaken assumptions, and only the viewer has all the pieces. it's a head trip in a low-key kind of way. unlike barton fink, which is a head trip in an AHHH WALLS R MELTING kind of way.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 02:35 (eighteen years ago)

I'd rank them something like this (best first):
The Big Lebowski
Fargo
Raising Arizona
The Hudsucker Proxy
Blood Simple
Barton Fink
The Man Who Wasn't There

and then the ones I don't really like:
O Brother, Where Art Thou?
Miller's Crossing

never saw the most recent two

― abanana, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 02:35 (eighteen years ago)

sonnenfeld was their secret weapon

I thought Roger Deakins was their secret weapon, especially on O Brother and TMWWT.

― Billy Dods, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:08 (eighteen years ago)

i've never been able to stay awake through fargo, but there are great parts in there.

coen bros are good at characters. or possibly heavy-handed with it... but i think it's a positive thing regardless.

my wife could probably sit down and recite most of the dialogue in raising arizona. many of their movies are highly quotable. again, possibly overdone, but we're quoters, so it works for us. i mean, when there was no crawdads, we ate sand! you ate sand? we ate sand!

i kind of wonder, if some of the funnier ones aren't funny at all to some of you, what is funny?

― msp, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:16 (eighteen years ago)

I never saw Intolerable Cruelty, but when I worked in a video store I was very grateful for its existence because every time I shelved it, I got to hiss, INTOLERABLE CRU-EL-TY."

I liked to also say "A Very Loooooooooooooooooong Engagement" when I shelved that one.

― Abbott, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:19 (eighteen years ago)

I think O Brother is probably their best movie, though I voted Hudsucker as a sentimental favorite.

― I DIED, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:30 (eighteen years ago)

oh brother was so lovely to look at on the big screen. so beautiful.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:33 (eighteen years ago)

anybody ever see crimewave, the movie they did with sam raimi? it's pretty bad, but you can see all the elements of their future work in that movie.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:35 (eighteen years ago)

like, the good and the bad.


i do love miller's crossing too. again with the visual loveliness.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:36 (eighteen years ago)

i like all their movies except for intolerable cruelty. and i have actually never made it all the way thru the man who wasn't there! i mean i own it on tape and everything. i missed it in the theatre. and i have yet to see the ladykillers, but it looks pretty bad. i like everything else though. not that i watch them over and over or anything. i have watched miller's crossing a bunch though. i was a little obsessed with that movie.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:39 (eighteen years ago)

i watched the big lebowski with my dad when we were both in kind of a low spot; i figured it would cheer us both up. we roffled to beat the band but by the end the TOTAL MORAL VACUOUSNESS of it kind of got to us both.

all of their characters have all of these very specific uh contours and their own elaborate syntax etc, but none of them has ever really connected with any of the others. they're all complete narcissists. you could imagine tom from miller's crossing and either of george clooney's characters and the dude all trading places around -- their movies would go a different way and have different yuks but nobody would turn out any different than how they went in.

the coens get a lot of comedy out ppl being blithely unable or just refusing to be affected by others or the world around them but there's something kind of depressing about it too.

― gff, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:44 (eighteen years ago)

jesus christ all of you are fucking idiots.

i did just drunkely vote for barton fink but all of the listed movies are perfect except for the last one.

oh hey whoever said intolerable cruelty is underrated i'd like to buy you a drink.

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:45 (eighteen years ago)

I have seen Crimewave.

I still haven't voted. I knew that if I voted I would regret it, and sure enough, it's rushing back to me how much I love The Man Who Wasn't There.

Still not voting.

Hmmm.

I may be a CoBros fanboy. Yeah, I am. Why kid?

― Oilyrags, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:47 (eighteen years ago)

oh hey i'm drunk, sorry, some of you aren't idiots.

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:49 (eighteen years ago)

the only reason i haven't watched the man who wasn't there is cuz everytime i put it on something comes up. it's weird. but i'll make it one of these days. i wouldn't call myself a fanboy, but i've always appreciated what they do. i dig their thing. since blood simple.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:51 (eighteen years ago)

no problem, ghost rider. i don't know if you are anyone i know anyway. plus, anger suits yer flaming skull head.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:53 (eighteen years ago)

thanks scott. i don't think we don't know each other but your soul is def not tainted with the blood of the innocents, you are totally blood diamonds

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 04:58 (eighteen years ago)

my first date with my first girlfriend was to see Big Lebowski in the theater. her parents asked me what it was rated when i picked her up.

― g®▲Ðұ, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 05:20 (eighteen years ago)

hey ghost rider, fuck you for calling me an idiot! Double that for the retraction! But I think we're pretty much in the same boat as far as thinking all their movies are blood simple diamonds except Ladykillers.

― I DIED, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 05:25 (eighteen years ago)

Also, you're not even drunk.

― I DIED, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 05:26 (eighteen years ago)

The biggest problem with the Coens is, that while they're obviously technically skilled and can write great dialogue, they often appear as these too-clever-for-their-own-sake fanboys who want to make their own ironic pastiches of every old Hollywood genre they love, yet the movies often end up as hollow postmodern genre excercises, lacking a heart. Their technique is usually too obvious, too self-referent to make me really love the movie or sympathize with the characters. Hudsucker Proxy is the most obvious example of this: while brilliant on the surface, it totally lacks the humanity that made the capraesque fairy tales it imitates so touching. So I guess my favourite movie of theirs is Lebowski, because that one is least pastichey and has the biggest soul of its own (even though its best joke was lifted from Mel Brooks's Life Stinks).

― Tuomas, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 06:59 (eighteen years ago)

All you Big Lebowski haters can fuck off. My vague and unconsidered ranking would go like this:

1. Lebowski
2. Hudsucker
3. Man Who Wasn't There
4. Barton Fink
5. Oh Brother
6. Raising Arizona (because I can barely remember it)
7. Fargo
8. All the ones I haven't seen yet
11. Intolerable Shit

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:12 (eighteen years ago)

My reaction upon watching Fargo was "is that it?!" The Man Who Wasn't There is totally underrated.

― Matt DC, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:14 (eighteen years ago)

its best joke was lifted from Mel Brooks's Life Stinks


Which joke was that? I don't remember if I've even seen Life Stinks.

I voted Lebowski, but I don't dislike anything they've done.

― marmotwolof, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:18 (eighteen years ago)

It's the one concerning cremated ashes. Won't say more not to spoil it.

― Tuomas, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:26 (eighteen years ago)

Blood Simple is the one I most enjoyed, by a long long way.

I like the way it isn't funny! Well, not like Fargo or the Big Lebowski anyhow. Great atmosphere throughout.

― Ronan, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:32 (eighteen years ago)

No Bad Santa, no credibility. I'm not voting!

― the next grozart, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:38 (eighteen years ago)

Actually, I just voted for Hudsucker. Still, Bad Santa is the best.

― the next grozart, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:39 (eighteen years ago)

Huh? Wasn't that by Terry Zwigoff?

― Tuomas, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:40 (eighteen years ago)

I voted for Hudsucker but I don't think that's right. Well watteva it's hugely enjoyable.
Miller's Crossing is maybe their masterpiece. O Brother has been rising in my estimation over the last couple of viewings, so I think that's one of their best now.
Blood Simple is great. Arizona has some fine moments. Barton Fink is an old favourite. There are things about Lebowski's soh that don't gel with me, idiosynctratic and inventive as it is.

― Frogman Henry, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:43 (eighteen years ago)

Important question: which one's Donald and which one's Walter?

― Frogman Henry, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:55 (eighteen years ago)

1 The Big Lebowski
2 Barton Fink
3 Miller's Crossing
4 Raising Arizona
5 Blood Simple
6 Intolerable Cruelty
7 The Hudsucker Proxy
8 The Ladykillers
9 Fargo
10 O Brother, Where Art Thou?
11 The Man Who Wasn't There

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:55 (eighteen years ago)

My bad, Coens were only Executive Directors, although they came up with the orginal idea.

― the next grozart, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 08:56 (eighteen years ago)

"The biggest problem with the Coens is, that while they're obviously technically skilled and can write great dialogue, they often appear as these too-clever-for-their-own-sake fanboys who want to make their own ironic pastiches of every old Hollywood genre they love, yet the movies often end up as hollow postmodern genre excercises, lacking a heart. Their technique is usually too obvious, too self-referent to make me really love the movie or sympathize with the characters."

why what an ORIGINAL POINT OF VIEW.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:00 (eighteen years ago)

the Coens/every piece of art made in the last 15 years

― Ronan, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:02 (eighteen years ago)

Just because it's not an original view, I can't think that way?

― Tuomas, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:18 (eighteen years ago)

Of course it's not an original view, because it rises from their movies without much difficulty.

― Tuomas, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:20 (eighteen years ago)

it's not even true. if you don't sympathize with barton fink, or the faulkner character, or with gabriel byrne, or with frances mcdormand in 'blood simple', or william h macy, or with the dude, then it's you i feel sorry for.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:22 (eighteen years ago)

Hey, I didn't say this applies to every single one of their movies. Blood Simple, Barton Fink and Lebowski are the obvious exceptions.

― Tuomas, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:26 (eighteen years ago)

you're supposed to sympathize w/ william h macy?
xpost

― marmotwolof, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:28 (eighteen years ago)

a little bit yeah.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:43 (eighteen years ago)

gff's big post nails it.

i think my last straw with them was when the camera goes down the drain of the sink AGAIN in barton fink and i was just like oh fuck it.

i know what you're saying about the "ho ho, white trash"-isms of raising arizona, and i mean, nicolas cage for god's sake, but somehow for me it's all affectionate. where "somehow" = holly hunter, i guess.

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:45 (eighteen years ago)

x-post
I don't know, maybe a little in a "dude got way more than he bargained for" way, or a "how could anyone be that foolish, I feel sorry for him" way, but even if the plan went perfectly that would still be a pretty unforgivably fucked up thing to put your family through. Maybe I'm missing something, I haven't watched it in a while.

― marmotwolof, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:56 (eighteen years ago)

Lebowski gives me the most pleasure, but Fargo and the underrated The Man Who Wasn't There are perhaps the only films they've made which ammount to more than elaborate technical/genre exercises (not that I'm complaining, they do elaborate technical/genre exercises in the most inventive and entertaining way possible). I've not seen Blood Simple or The Ladykillers.

― chap, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 13:44 (eighteen years ago)

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that their movies suck, like Chap I find their genre excercises fun to watch, but I can't still claim to "love" them, as implied in the original post.

― Tuomas, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 13:56 (eighteen years ago)

Is it a Fargone conclusion?

this is a terrible, terrible pun and it is biasing me against this thread.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Wednesday, 4 April 2007 13:58 (eighteen years ago)

Fargo and The Man Who Wasn't There are just as much elaborate technical/genre exercises as Hudsucker or O Brother!

I think <i>Lebowski</i> and <i>Raising Arizona</i> -- two of their most cynical, mocking movies -- demonstrate more genuine affection for the protagonists (and even the incredibly stupid supporting characters) than all their more critically-praised darker stuff.

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:03 (eighteen years ago)

Bernie: Look in your heart, Tom!
Tom: What heart?

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:03 (eighteen years ago)

i mean i can't even read like half the posts in this thread, they make no sense to me

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:03 (eighteen years ago)

This list is very subjective, but the first seven are all great, well crafted movies.

Miller's Crossing
The Big Lebowski
Raising Arizona
The Hudsucker Proxy
O Brother, Where Art Thou?
Barton Fink
Fargo
Intolerable Cruelty
Blood Simple
The Ladykillers

I have not yet seen The Man Who Wasn't There.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:08 (eighteen years ago)

Fargo is their only movie that i think is actually overpraised, good though it is.

Barton
Arizona
Miller's
Hudsucker
Lebowski
Cruelty
Blood Simple
Man Who Wasn't There
Fargo
O Brother
Ladykillers

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:10 (eighteen years ago)

Really tough choice between Barton Fink, Raising Arizona and the Hudsucker Proxy. RA seems like the obvious choice, BF is the dark horse sleeper but HP just makes me so happy when I watch it.

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:11 (eighteen years ago)

I have the exact same problem, after Millers crossing.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:14 (eighteen years ago)

yeah you could really switch arizona and hudsucker on my list depending on my mood, they're both just really full of joy in the entire filmmaking process.

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:14 (eighteen years ago)

My fiancee's dad is really great but kind of old fashioned, especially re: movie violence and "bad" language. The first time I met him and stayed at his house we all went to the video store and I selected "Miller's Crossing" which I had never seen before. I think this (combined with me supporting "Three Kings" at a lunch conversation the next day) may have created a bad first impression. So I have negative associations with MC. Don't worry though, everything's cool with him now.

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:16 (eighteen years ago)

if you don't sympathize with barton fink

Um, were we supposed to? Then why cast the one-note Turturro shouting one-dimensional blather about writing?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:19 (eighteen years ago)

"one-note turturro"??? ;_;

― gff, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:20 (eighteen years ago)

ok, one-note turturro.

alfred you are beyond redemption.

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:21 (eighteen years ago)

Please note this is ranked like 1a to 1i. Also, haven't seen Ladykillers, & haven't seen Blood Simple in a long time. Johnny Blaze OTM re: cynical sympathy.

Arizona
Barton (I wrote a paper on this flick; sigh)
Hudsucker
O Brother
Miller's
Cruelty
Man Who Wasn't There
Lebowski
Fargo

"one-note" pffft

― David R., Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:21 (eighteen years ago)

Barton's probably the hardest Coen protagonist to sympathize with, what with his East Coast sense of entitlement, his pretentions, and his unrelenting naivete. But underneath all that, he's just a fish out of water trying to figure out his shit, and that's pretty easy to sympathize with.

― David R., Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:27 (eighteen years ago)

One-note Turturro
One-note Turturro
I ran over my neighbor

One-note Turturro
One-note Turturro
Because my dad's the mayor

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:28 (eighteen years ago)

ok there are 700 things a person could say about john turturro, some of them actually insulting, but "one-note" is not one of those things, unless you are purposefully trying to make no sense.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:29 (eighteen years ago)

Rewatch the film then, kids. Turturro's way better in Quiz Show and The Big Lebowski.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:30 (eighteen years ago)

Being "worse" in other films = being one-note? Uh, OK?

― David R., Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:31 (eighteen years ago)

i like it better when dr. morbius acts like that, it's not the same this way.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:31 (eighteen years ago)

he is the only person allowed to refer to us as kids, ok?

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:31 (eighteen years ago)

http://www.gonemovies.com/www/Drama/Drama/DoTheRightThingSalPino.jpg
http://x-stream.fortunecity.com/fleetst/71/barton_fink.gif
http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/twentieth_century_fox/miller_s_crossing/john_turturro/mc2.jpg

OL ONE-NOTE OVER HERE LOL @ YET ANOTHER TYPICAL TURTURRO PERFORMANCE

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:31 (eighteen years ago)

what a nuanced, nay, polyphonic, performance he gave in 'lebowski'.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:33 (eighteen years ago)

WAIT HE'S "BETTER" IN HIS COMEDY-ACCENTED MINOR JOKE BIT PART IN LEBOWSKI THE INTERNET IS GIVING ME A MIGRAINE TODAY

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:33 (eighteen years ago)

I'LL SHOW YOU THE LIFE OF THE MIND

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:34 (eighteen years ago)

Let's talk about JT's forehead.

― David R., Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:34 (eighteen years ago)

i think alfred refers to judi dench as "the dame", without irony, so, well, ya know, whadddayagonnado.

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:34 (eighteen years ago)

In Barton Fink, Turturro pulls off smug, angry, frightened, in shock, and overwhelmed pretty well. I haven't seen it in years, but I am contrasting his scenes with Goodman, at the theater, at the beach, and so on, and I am remembering a lot of contrast.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:35 (eighteen years ago)

Turturro not lead actor = more tolerable.

If you guys really think we're meant to regard him sympathetically (his Barton Fink is a hack, and a pretentious one at that), then have fun rewatching Intolerable Cruelty, The Hudsucker Proxy and [/i]The Ladykillers[/i], among other masterpieces of genial, Sturges-esque human comedy.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:35 (eighteen years ago)

if you want a bad j.t. movie rent "Mac"

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:36 (eighteen years ago)

alfred have you ever sympathized with a flawed character before/have you ever seen a movie

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:36 (eighteen years ago)

Yes, Hudsucker is FULL OF JOY AT THE FILMMAKING PROCESS, WHAT FUN TO RECREATE WHAT I THINK IS THIRTIES SCREWBALL, ONLY ONE-NOTE AND SOUR.

(I can do ironic banalities in capital letters to)

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:37 (eighteen years ago)

"minsk, if you want to go all the way back, which we won't, if you don't mind, and i ain't asking."

― That one guy that quit, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:38 (eighteen years ago)

Alfred, you really need to look up what "one-note" means, & not just use it as short-hand for "I think this sucks."

― David R., Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:40 (eighteen years ago)

i tried to stand up and fly straight, but it wasn't easy with that sumbitch reagan in the white house

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:41 (eighteen years ago)

I felt a great deal of sympathy for Barton Fink, which is why I ticked it. It's uncomfortable sympathy, sympathy mixed with embarassment and agony and frustration, but no less sympathy for that.

― Groke, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:43 (eighteen years ago)

Best Barton Fink moments: any scene with John Goodman or Judy Davis ("Empathy requires understanding"...too bad the Coens don't follow their own advice).

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:43 (eighteen years ago)

It's quite a similar emotion to seeing a well-meaning ILE whipping boy knocked about, come to think of it.

xpost sweet xpost

― Groke, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:43 (eighteen years ago)

I can't rank them - they're so different - but barton fink, blood simple, and o brother are definitely my personal favorites. fargo I admire more than I enjoy. nobody should pass judgement on blood simple or o brother without seeing them at least twice, they really open up on repeat viewings.

though I suspect that if you don't enjoy the humor or if you suffer from an irrational hatred of george clooney then o brother is likely to be a chore. but the hanging/flood scene towards the end is a moment which kills all that "Coens lacking a heart" noise. it's a touching and totally human sequence that seems tacked on at first, coming after the rally scene. but it carries the film out of mere slapstick and ties together a bunch of serious themes the movie's been touching on throughout. it really captures something about the american south, about what a weird, mysterious old place it is, something way beyond the "stay out the woolsworth" yuck yuck yuck stuff that's come before. oddly enough (or not?) it's the movie that makes me miss living in the south the most. maybe I'm deluded, but I think there's a lot of affection in o brother, not something people say about their movies generally.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:44 (eighteen years ago)

omg barton fink as louis jagger analogue

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:45 (eighteen years ago)

Tracer and cutty's initial posts OTM, and Barton Fink is so horrible.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:46 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not going to argue that turturro doesn't give a one note performance in barton fink.... but criticizing the film on that basis is like walking out of beckett's endgame saying "that guy playing hamm really didn't give that role a lot of range"

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:50 (eighteen years ago)

I VOTED FOR MILLER'S CROSSING

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:52 (eighteen years ago)

This is going to be close isn't it.

ooh the excitement

― Ste, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:56 (eighteen years ago)

I'm not a big hitchcock fan, but I wonder sometimes why the coens' stylish disregard for / sadism towards their characters is any less indefensible than hitchcock's.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:57 (eighteen years ago)

is miller's crossing their only real love story?

― gff, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:58 (eighteen years ago)

RAISING ARIZONA?!?!?!?

― David R., Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:59 (eighteen years ago)

all portent, no payoff is Barton Fink to a T. It seemed cool when I was sixteen though.

I'm not a big hitchcock fan, but I wonder sometimes why the coens' stylish disregard for / sadism towards their characters is any less indefensible than hitchcock's.

A lot of Hitchcock's films (more than I care to name) ARE indefensible for the same reasons.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 14:59 (eighteen years ago)

is miller's crossing their only real love story?

the entire plot of o brother revolves around a man trying to win back the love of his estranged wife, not sure if that counts.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:00 (eighteen years ago)

i voted fargo, obvious and safe, yeah yeah whatever, i think it's their best movie.

1. fargo
2. miller's crossing
3. raising arizona
4. the big lebowski
5. blood simple

― kenan, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:01 (eighteen years ago)

miller's crossing?? neither one of them has a heart!

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:02 (eighteen years ago)

intolerable cruelty is a love story, unless the philadelphia story isn't.

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:03 (eighteen years ago)

I generally like sadism toward characters in the right context. It's not what's wrong with that long Coen trough between Arizona and Man Who Wasn't There; it's as Tracer said, they have fucknothing to say.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:04 (eighteen years ago)

It's hard for me to decide between their movies that make me feel good (Hudsucker, Oh Brother) vs their movies that make me feel, I don't know, more (Fargo, Miller's).

Lebowski is a great comedy and always fun but it is their least emotionally resonant film...I mean, even Donny's fucking funeral is a mean-spirited joke.

FWIW I have never seen Intolerable Cruelty or Ladykillers.

― nickalicious, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:05 (eighteen years ago)

I'm totally voting for TMWWT just because it's the only one with a Scar-Jo bj.

― nickalicious, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:06 (eighteen years ago)

all portent, no payoff is Barton Fink to a T. It seemed cool when I was sixteen though.

actually I haven't seen this in over a decade, sometimes I wonder if it will hold up. I have a distinct memory of walking out of the theater when it first came out feeling like I'd just gotten stoned, so at the least it has the potential to be a powerfully strong viewing experience.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:10 (eighteen years ago)

Not a big fan of the Coen Brothers, but I really like Lebowski, and Fargo is decent

― daria-g, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:14 (eighteen years ago)

Every one of their movies at the very least (er, that I've seen, I should say) has something worth watching. Like, Blood Simple is kind of tedious up until the last 5/10ish minutes but it has one of the best endings of all their fillums.

― nickalicious, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:15 (eighteen years ago)

Okay, I voted with my heart. The deed is done.

― nickalicious, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:17 (eighteen years ago)

I generally like sadism toward characters in the right context. It's not what's wrong with that long Coen trough between Arizona and Man Who Wasn't There; it's as Tracer said, they have fucknothing to say.

now I'm picturing you handing people business cards that read "dr. morbius, sadist".

they do have a tendency to rest on their "life is absurd" laurels but barton fink says something about the creative process, fargo about the banality of evil, and obv I think o brother has a lot more than just hick yucks going on in it.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:20 (eighteen years ago)

barton fink says something about the creative process

What does it say – that if you take your smug leftism too seriously you produce pretentious Wallace Beery wrestling pictures?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:22 (eighteen years ago)

more about the dangers of living in your own head, of being so wrapped up in your own headtrip that it strangles yr ability to produce good work, to interact meaningfully with other people. yeah, fink's pretentious, and the film skewers that hard.

plus it's the best movie I've ever seen on writer's block.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:26 (eighteen years ago)

it's funny that the morbii of the world hate them so, because i'm guessing the coens and the good dr have pretty similar taste in film and adore many of the same things about the same movies fr the same reasons.

the coens just translate that into trying to recreate/comment on/pay tribute to/satirize those things, and dr m into being cantankerous on the internet.

hahaha xpost looks like ol' one-note hits a little too close to home for lord soto

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:26 (eighteen years ago)

It's hard for me to decide between their movies that make me feel good (Hudsucker, Oh Brother) vs their movies that make me feel, I don't know, more (Fargo, Miller's).

This sums up my dillema very nicely (but with Lebowski/O Brother and Fargo /TMWWT).

xpost to Alfred - it's more than that - the purgatorial state of knowing you have something to say, but it being always just out of your grasp - and the constant reminders that life is a lot weirder and more unpredictable than you can ever represent it on paper.

― chap, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:26 (eighteen years ago)

man, I need to see that movie. motherfuck a writer's block.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

this thread is kind of making me want to watch all these movies right now.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:27 (eighteen years ago)

xpost to Alfred - it's more than that - the purgatorial state of knowing you have something to say, but it being always just out of your grasp - and the constant reminders that life is a lot weirder and more unpredictable than you can ever represent it on paper

OK, that's better. Or: you think you have Something To Say when you're really just a smug hack.

it's funny that the morbii of the world hate them so, because i'm guessing the coens and the good dr have pretty similar taste in film and adore many of the same things about the same movies fr the same reasons.

the coens just translate that into trying to recreate/comment on/pay tribute to/satirize those things, and dr m into being cantankerous on the internet

If the Coens make their Hou Tsiao-Tsien pastiche they can cast Turturro.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:29 (eighteen years ago)

s it a Fargone conclusion?

this is a terrible, terrible pun and it is biasing me against this thread.

Sorry, but it was too delicious an opportunity to avoid.

― Billy Dods, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:32 (eighteen years ago)

Peter Stormare should've played TMWWT instead of Billy Bob, btw.

― nickalicious, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:36 (eighteen years ago)

1. Miller's Crossing
2. Hudsucker
3. Barton Fink
4. Raising Arizona
5. Fargo
6. Oh Brother
7. Lebowski
8. Intolerable Cruelty
9. Blood Simple
Haven't seen "Man Who Wasn't There" or "Ladykillers"

― John Justen, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 15:38 (eighteen years ago)

Actually, I thought Intolerable Cruelty was pretty good, because in it heartlessness was exactly the point. Though the tacked on "happy ending" felt almost like an intentional parody, because all of a sudden you were supposed to care about these two people...

― Tuomas, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 16:50 (eighteen years ago)

Or: you think you have Something To Say when you're really just a smug hack.

or: as long as you're being smug you're not going to be able to say the important things you may be capable of. truthfully I can't recall how fatalistic the end of barton fink is, my recollection is that it isn't, or it's at least ambiguous? I really need to see it again.

but the relationship between turturro and goodman in barton fink is reminiscent of the scene in mulholland drive with the director and the cowboy.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 16:52 (eighteen years ago)

I've also thought that barton fink in large part represents the coens satirizing their own worst tendencies.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 16:59 (eighteen years ago)

very little on this thread about how cool their movies look. that is more than half of my love right there.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:01 (eighteen years ago)

you're supposed to sympathize w/ william h macy?
xpost

-- marmotwolof, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 09:28 (7 hours ago)

YES, STUPID

― and what, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:06 (eighteen years ago)

I angled around that in my own obscure way - comparing/contrasting to
hitchcock or lynch is useful, in that they are all stylish sadists. I guess kubrick could fit here as well.

xpost to scott

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:07 (eighteen years ago)

some people, in trying to crticize shit that bothers them about coen movies, come off sounding like they've never seen a screwball comedy or film noir.

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SYMPATHIZE WITH WALTER NEFF?

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:09 (eighteen years ago)

surely the coens' strong visual sense feeds the common style-over-substance complaints about them

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SYMPATHIZE WITH WALTER NEFF?

-- ghost rider, Wednesday, April 4, 2007 1:09 PM (1 minute ago)

was gonna make this exact comparison

― and what, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:12 (eighteen years ago)

yeah, I think the reason people haven't been talking about the look of the movies is that this thread very quickly became a defense of the Coens against the critique that they're all style no substance.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:12 (eighteen years ago)

SADISTS WITH STYLE

I should pitch a book

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:12 (eighteen years ago)

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SYMPATHIZE WITH WALTER NEFF?

-- ghost rider, Wednesday, April 4, 2007 1:09 PM (1 minute ago)

Hahahaha. OTM

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:13 (eighteen years ago)

while we're on the subject, I've never bought that the Coens are sadists. certainly not like Hitchcock is (or in the disturbingly gendered way that Hitchcock is).

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:13 (eighteen years ago)

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO SYMPATHIZE WITH WALTER NEFF?

Hey, I wasn't the one arguing that Barton Fink was supposed to be sympathetic. Now that I think about it, Fred MacMurray was a better fink than Fink, so FRED WINS.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

these dudes are ok but other than 'o brother where art thou' and 'miller's crossing' i can't watch their stuff more than once. 'the man who wasn't there' was their worst, it's just willfully boring and studied.

― rps, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

you forgot to mention depalma. who certainly gets more style/substance gripes than just about anyone.


x-post

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:14 (eighteen years ago)

thing is, to repeat myself, i don't think it's sadism at all. i think they're totally in love with everyone they've ever made up. maybe too much? they all just ping off each other, tho, perfectly.

― gff, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:15 (eighteen years ago)

I don't really hate any of their films besides BF. Just way too much ado from their fans about showy style, except for the four I like.

If they "loved" old movies the way I do they would engage them with a purpose -- The Man Who Wasn't There, Intolerable Cruelty, Blood Simple are successful examples of this -- rather than just reproduce their superficial qualities (i.e. the two films where the lead actress imitates Kate Hepburn's voice).

Reducing Hitchcock to "a sadist" is far more dismissive than I've ever been toward the Coens.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

on the visual kick, ts: roger deakins vs barry sonnenfeld

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:16 (eighteen years ago)

there is a distinction between anti-sentimental and sadistic.

xpost look, Hitchcock is the greatest, I love his movies, but it's not a reduction to just name what's going on in them. they're a lot of things, among which: sadistic and misogynistic.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:17 (eighteen years ago)

I mean, I would agree with you upthread, Dr. Morbius, that sadism is not a reason to dismiss a movie. but it also seems not to be the mode of the Coens.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:18 (eighteen years ago)

as much as i enjoy watching some of their films, i agree they might not have a single thing to say beyond plot machinations, one-liners, and dope camerawork. but most directors working today don't even have that so i'm not gonna complain.

― rps, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:18 (eighteen years ago)

i guess some people just wish they were more controlled? or serious? they have that wacky streak. their inner-farrelly brothers can shine thru at odd moments. it doesn't usually bother me. i can see how jen jason lee as kate could drive some people up a tree though.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:21 (eighteen years ago)

Hitchcock's worst later films are pretty sadistic, Morbs (The Birds, Marnie); the ethos seems to be "Let's see what outrages I can foist on a mediocre actress like Tippi Hedren."

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:21 (eighteen years ago)

dudes any Hitchcock movie with a chick in it is sadistic. this is just science.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:22 (eighteen years ago)

er, leigh

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:23 (eighteen years ago)

JASON LEE AS KATHERINE HEPBURN

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:24 (eighteen years ago)

people forgive mad geniuses their excesses and trespasses. hitch, depalma, scorsese, um, every man ever. okay, i exaggerate.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:25 (eighteen years ago)

well, I think Tippi Hedren is great, particularly in Marnie. Things from the Spoto bio inform ppl's opinion of Hitchcock's agenda in those films, and as with David O. Russell, I don't care what happened offscreen.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:25 (eighteen years ago)

JOHN TURTURRO as THELMA RITTER

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:26 (eighteen years ago)

nothing beats that mrs. parker movie for hilarity. everyone in it reminded me of peter brady as george washington.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:26 (eighteen years ago)

I''ve never read the Spoto bio! I tend to avoid film bios generally.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:26 (eighteen years ago)

i kinda have a crush on jennifer jason leigh so i'm more than willing to overlook her stock hepburn voice

and what the hell i like that campbell scott kid too, mrs parker otm

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:28 (eighteen years ago)

this should really go on another thread, but Dr. Morbius, just because Hitchcock films cut women up doesn't mean the women in them aren't great! and I'm not really talking about a personal agenda on Hitchcock's part (I don't know much about him biographically), and I think the gendered sadism in them is really interesting because it lays out a certain kind of gender ideology perfectly and self-awarely. but I think it's perverse to act like they're loving toward the women in them.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

as long as I'm horribly off topic: Campbell Scott is my husband.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:29 (eighteen years ago)

Mrs Danvers is Hitch's most "sympathetic" character, and she was a cold batshit dike.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:30 (eighteen years ago)

mrs scott pls tell your husband to make more "rodger dodgers" and fewer "music and lyrics"

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:31 (eighteen years ago)

the OTHER Spoto Hitchcock book -- the one about the films -- is the better one. But Robin Wood on AH is better.

Alfred, you crazee! The Man Who Knew Too Much '56 is quite loving toward Doris Day. To make a point De Palma has, PEOPLE IN THRILLERS SUFFER.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:32 (eighteen years ago)

my husband is into directing now, but Rodger Dodger otm.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:32 (eighteen years ago)

during the first 15 minutes or so of "the man who wasn't there" i thought to myself "man i could just look at billy bob thornton's face shot in crisp black and white for hours" and then i realized i was wrong

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:34 (eighteen years ago)

Tracer OTM. more like the Movie That Wasn't There amirite etc

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:36 (eighteen years ago)

Let's talk about Campbell Scott now.

― David R., Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:40 (eighteen years ago)

i ever saw that dentist movie, was it any good?

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:41 (eighteen years ago)

The Man Who Knew Too Much '56 is quite loving toward Doris Day

After screening Love Me Or Leave Me last night it's quite difficult for me to imagine Doris being the object of sympathy, at any time.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:41 (eighteen years ago)

it's really bleak and Campbell Scott has a MUSTACHE in it, which is tragic, but yeah, it's good.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:42 (eighteen years ago)

xpost about the secret lives of dentists, which is a terrible title.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:42 (eighteen years ago)

Campbell Scott is teh hott. He's the only saving grace in that movie with Peter Sarssssssgaaaaard.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:42 (eighteen years ago)

I've never seen Love Me Or Leave Me, as a Cagney fan I will rectify that soon.

CAGNEY, Miller's Crossing fans. Cagney.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

one of my favorite Campbell Scott performances: the ~two minutes he has onscreen in The Daytrippers.

xpost Alfred otm. he has the best voice.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:43 (eighteen years ago)

ok the only even vaguely cagney-like part in miller's crossing is jon polito's -- leo could maybe be edward g. robinson but calling miller's crossing a straight rip of public enemy or something is so reductive and just... wrong that i'm wondering how long it's been since you've seen either movie, morbs!

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:47 (eighteen years ago)

the daytrippers is so great

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:47 (eighteen years ago)

i used to get pizza directly across the street from that soho apartment approx. twice a week

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:48 (eighteen years ago)

I don't get the Cagney ref either Morbs

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:49 (eighteen years ago)

depalma too! and yeah, I'd never argue with somebody who told me they were annoyed by a coen bros movie. now, if you say they're completely empty + soulless stylists, that's different. but their wackiness can easily grate.

I don't think anyone anywhere on the thread reduced hitchcock to mere sadism? it's just an aspect of his work (or charge that has been levelled against it if you want to look at it that way), one he shares with lynch, kubrick, coens. the latter three in particular are known for sensuous cinematography, stunning art design, eye-popping color, etc. so there's some commonality there. as well as the prediliction for absurdity.

there's a difference between anti-sentimental and sadistic. but there are plenty of anti-sentimental directors who don't put their characters in such extreme tortuous situations, who don't view their characters' pain through what is sometimes a removed and at others a humourous viewpoint. there's a god-like perspective that they try to pull off, and part and parcel of that is observing the actions of these puny humans with a cool reserve. now, you can say that's just an objective viewpoint. but their filmmaking is so pleasurable and sensuous, it can have the sum effect of being an beautifully decorated torture chamber.

I'm not pro or con on the subject, I'm just making aesthetic observations. moral judgments are for courtrooms. but there are plenty of critics who have levelled that against these directors.

gaarrrrggh xpost x 8 million

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:50 (eighteen years ago)

Watch Love Me Or Leave Me, Morbs. Day is fine until the audience is expected to sympathize with her ascent to moneyed dullness. Cagney's really great (and the one sympathetic character).

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:52 (eighteen years ago)

I probably haven't seen Miller's Crossing since its initial release. I wasn't saying there was a straight Cagney ripoff in it, but that it badly needed someone/thing as compelling as him. (or George Raft)

I believe someone's doing a new Ruth Etting biofilm?

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:55 (eighteen years ago)

"sum effect of being in a beautifully decorated torture chamber."

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:55 (eighteen years ago)

but their filmmaking is so pleasurable and sensuous, it can have the sum effect of being an beautifully decorated torture chamber.

I guess this is the part I'm not totally sold in wrt Coens, though I can see it being truer of some movies (Fargo) than others (Lebowski). also not sure godlike perspective=sadism. but it is a very persuasive description, Edward. and I agree about not making moral judgments.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:57 (eighteen years ago)

haha i find george raft to be the blandest of the 30s toughs but that might be a much better analogy considering the glass key/hammett thing in miller's crossing.

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:59 (eighteen years ago)

spielberg gets my vote for most sadistic director! (or at least i felt completely defiled and tortured watching Hook)

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 17:59 (eighteen years ago)

i hated breaking the waves for its sadism but mainly because the characters in it seemed to exist in a lived-in, believable world; with the coens it's neither here nor there because nobody in their movies seems real in the first place.

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:01 (eighteen years ago)

von Trier gets my vote for most sadistic director, but that seems directed even more at the viewer than at the characters. I like breaking the waves, but it's the only movie of his I can deal with at all.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:02 (eighteen years ago)

von Trier is THE sadistic director. I couldn't even finish that stupid Bjork musical movie, it was so irritating.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

(altho I really love the Kingdom)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:04 (eighteen years ago)

I am not a "film" person but wtf re: "sadism" in directors? How is sadism relevant when you're talking about fictional characters? I realize this reads really dumb, but I just don't understand the fuss.

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:05 (eighteen years ago)

von Trier's films seem to literally revel in (or exist for no other purpose than) the suffering of the female leads.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:06 (eighteen years ago)

and enjoying the suffering of others = sadism

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:06 (eighteen years ago)

it's not really relevant in a moral way, necessarily, although I do kind of hate von Trier. it's relevant with Hitchcock, I think, because it's the mode with which he says things (like in Rebecca, for example, its the sadist mode of the movie that exposes the Laurence Olivier character's sexist sadism.)

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:07 (eighteen years ago)

Isn't the whole fun of making up stories the fact that you can make terrible or awesome things happen with no real consequences?

xpost

even when those "others" aren't real people!?!?

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:07 (eighteen years ago)

horseshoe you know I love you but I have no idea what you're talking about

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:08 (eighteen years ago)

Sadist directors wd be torturing (not thrilling) the audience. von Trier (post BtheWaves) is an asshole sadist -- Michael Haneke is closing in. At his best, Peter Greenaway's sadism made everyone else mentioned look like a piker.

haha i find george raft to be the blandest of the 30s toughs

Yah, that was my joke -- tho I find him disturbing and interesting to watch. More a bad actor than bland.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:08 (eighteen years ago)

You guys can just ignore me. Nevermind.

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:08 (eighteen years ago)

Also some of you are talking about sadism towards characters, while others are talking about sadism towards the audience.

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:09 (eighteen years ago)

oh man n/a you're about to cause such a derail

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:09 (eighteen years ago)

sorry, Nick, I'll try again. I don't think identifying a film as sadist is necessarily a moral critique. it seems to me impossible to ignore the sadism of some films, and obviously Hitchcock is an important example to me, because the substance of what he's saying often seems to depend on the sadistic way in which it's said.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:10 (eighteen years ago)

i mean derailed ever further offtrack than we'd already gotten, which is, uh -- george raft, sadism, hitchcock, and now breaking the waves and maybe peter greenaway. nevermind, carry on.

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:10 (eighteen years ago)

Sadist directors wd be torturing (not thrilling) the audience.

if we're talking strictly in terms of the audience then surely someone like Warhol or, I dunno, Herzog (or even Lynch?) would be more likely candidates for OPO Sadist Directors...?

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:11 (eighteen years ago)

and I sort of agree with you on the "film characters aren't real people" and I sort of don't. ghost rider's right, this is a huge can of worms. I think the sadism toward the characters is related to the sadism toward the audience, though.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:11 (eighteen years ago)

xpost to Nick

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:11 (eighteen years ago)

The inhaler gag in Intolerable Cruelty is FAB.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:12 (eighteen years ago)

spielberg gets my vote for most sadistic director!

this is true. his favorite movie after all is texas chainsaw massacre. with the opening of saving private ryan he really got his rocks off!

not sure godlike perspective=sadism.

godlike perspective doesn't automatically equal sadism. a film like koyaanisquatsi adopts a godlike perspective without being sadistic. but when you focus a godlike perspective exclusively on human suffering (especially with a dose of black humor and/or a hyperdeveloped sense of control over the environment) it can appear sadistic.

xpost x pop. of india

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

and trying to clarify my Rebecca example: one of the things that movie is about is sadism, so the fact that its technique is sadistic is brilliant and sort of necessary, or at least, one of the things that makes it great. I think this is often true of Hitchcock.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:13 (eighteen years ago)

most "sympathetic" character = buscemi in fargo

― and what, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:14 (eighteen years ago)

whoever directed pay it forward. they are one sadistic fuck.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:15 (eighteen years ago)

morbs otm re. inhaler gag

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

IT WAS A WOMAN SCOTT

― David R., Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:17 (eighteen years ago)

Mimi Leder: so much to answer for.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:20 (eighteen years ago)

I think revelling in a character's misery can make a film awful, if that is the only point of it - see Dancer in the Dark for a good example. But I don't think the Coens are sadistic in this sense. They're more like gods playing chess with human pieces, and that is exactly what's wrong with them: while the game might be interesting to watch while it's on, in the end the pieces have little soul in themselves and the game functions only as a game, without any point or purpose.

― Tuomas, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:20 (eighteen years ago)

I think the sadism toward the characters is related to the sadism toward the audience, though.

definitely. an audience naturally empathizes with characters, and only the dullest director would not understand the vicarious identification and implications for the audience.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:22 (eighteen years ago)

horseshoe: I am not ignoring you. I just don't know what to say about all this stuff. It's related to yesterday's conversation on the Chicago thread.

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:23 (eighteen years ago)

i think it's just the unearned sadism/manipulation/cheap trick that bug me. unless it's, you know, a straight-up genre fick filled with wholesale slaughter. than all is allowed. spielberg's "aw, ain't he the cutest lil' kid? WATCH HIM CRY!" thing bugs me sometimes. it takes a true artist to build up sympathy and interest in a character and then have horrible stuff happen to them and make it seem warranted/real/had to happen. otherwise, you get the stephen king/john irving school of movies where bad things happen to adorable people just cuz it's sad when adorable people stumble. or die and come back as top hat-wearing zombies who are STILL kinda adorable.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:24 (eighteen years ago)

it's cool, Nick. I have now used the word "sadism" so many times in this thread I'm beginning to think I never knew what it meant to begin with.

xpost yeah, Scott, I wasn't even taking into account that kind of movie. sentimental sadism, maybe?

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:25 (eighteen years ago)

I think the sadism toward the characters is related to the sadism toward the audience, though.

definitely. an audience naturally empathizes with characters, and only the dullest director would not understand the vicarious identification and implications for the audience.

ARGH! But the extension of this argument is that the best movie would one where the characters live happy, carefree lives where all of their wishes are granted. Sure, they could suffer some kind of pitfall, and then be redeemed, but why torture the audience that way? Why not have the whole thing be joyous and happy?

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:25 (eighteen years ago)

whoever directed pay it forward. they are one sadistic fuck.

and whoever made you watch it. unless... scott... did you do this to yourself?

MASOCHIST

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

I feel like I'm being really stupid.

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:26 (eighteen years ago)

i just had to see it. i am definitely a masochist.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:27 (eighteen years ago)

Nick, for me, I think the response to that has something to do with the fact that film is a visual medium, and seeing a female body cut up the way it is in, oh, say, a Hitchcock movie is different than just knowing something bad has happened to somebody. I think maybe this is really reactionary of me, but I can't get over it.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:27 (eighteen years ago)

haahha so um exactly how are we defining 'sympathetic' here? buscemi & william h macy???

as for me i always thought francis mcdormand = pregnant slut who needs to die.

― deeznuts, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

i liked croneberg's movie!!! the one, you know the one! ex-mob guy one! that's a good example of doing the manipulation/terror of the innocents right! in my opinion.

― scott seward, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:28 (eighteen years ago)

But the extension of this argument is that the best movie would one where the characters live happy,

no, because saying a film or director is sadistic /= bad film. no value judgment assigned there.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:29 (eighteen years ago)

you and me both xpost

― rps, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:30 (eighteen years ago)

i liked croneberg's movie!!! the one, you know the one! ex-mob guy one! that's a good example of doing the manipulation/terror of the innocents right! in my opinion.

History of Violence. Morbs hated it (I thought it was great)

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:30 (eighteen years ago)

I think Scott's point is good: if sympathetic character(s) go through misery, the moviemakers got to convince the audience that there's some point to it. When this is done well, it can be a cathartic experience. But if a film-maker simply piles torture after torture on the main character without any point at all, like von Trier does in Dancer in the Dark, that can be called sadistic in bad way.

― Tuomas, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:30 (eighteen years ago)

I mean saying a film or filmmaker is sadistic or masochistic or sentimental or whatever- these are just psychological evaluations or analyses, they are not qualitative standards for judging whether a film/filmmaker is good or bad.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:31 (eighteen years ago)

xpost

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:32 (eighteen years ago)

History of Violence. Morbs hated it

No, I thought it was mediocre.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:33 (eighteen years ago)

So you don't think the word "sadistic" has an inherent negative connotation?!?!?#U@OI#$U@_#()*$U_@#()*$U_@)#*($_@)(*#$_)@#*(U

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:37 (eighteen years ago)

IT MEANS SOMEONE WHO GETS PLEASURE FROM TORTURING PEOPLE

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:38 (eighteen years ago)

um, you have problems.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:39 (eighteen years ago)

problems with understanding the english language, figurative speech, etc.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:39 (eighteen years ago)

You think there's no value judgement in the word "sadistic," and I have problems?

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

pleasure from torturing characters =/= pleasure from torturing people

― deeznuts, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

NOT EVEN SMALL ANIMALS ARE SAFE AROUND HIM

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:40 (eighteen years ago)

HITCHCOCK STABBED A WOMAN IN THE SHOWER!

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:41 (eighteen years ago)

it does have negative connotations, but it seems inarguable that certain films generate visual pleasure out of depicted pain! what Shakey was saying=Edward saying he's making aesthetic, not moral judgments. but it's hard to keep them separate, so I don't think Nick "has problems."

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:42 (eighteen years ago)

someone who can't distinguish something that happens on film from something that happens in real life = someone with problems

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:44 (eighteen years ago)

but Nick was saying that he thought we (or, okay, I) weren't distinguishing between what happens on film and what happens in life.

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:45 (eighteen years ago)

Describing a director who "tortures" fictional characters as "sadistic" is kind of the definition of not being able to distinguish something that happens on film from something that happens in real life.

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:47 (eighteen years ago)

I give up. get one english language.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

sadistic director =/= sadistic person

― deeznuts, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:49 (eighteen years ago)

It's acceptable usage cuz it's a different kind of sadistic.

You know, the way Hitler and james blount were both assholes.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:50 (eighteen years ago)

ARGH! But the extension of this argument is that the best movie would one where the characters live happy, carefree lives where all of their wishes are granted. Sure, they could suffer some kind of pitfall, and then be redeemed, but why torture the audience that way? Why not have the whole thing be joyous and happy?

not what I'm saying at all, and that's not where I'd "extend the argument". all film involves audience manipulation, and there's an implicit trust relationship between director and viewer. dear director I am going to allow you to manipulate my emotions for the express purposes of entertaining me, I may even learn something along the way, yay.

but some directors enjoy violating the trust relationship on a pattern basis, sometimes it's a tweak, sometimes it's more forceful. for instance, there is a difference between the rape scene in the accused and the rape scene in a clockwork orange. or compare the kidnap scene in fargo with a kidnap scene in any other movie.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

unless you're directing a snuff film xxpost

― rps, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

get one english language.

haw

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

I'm so glad we're no longer discussing The Hudsucker Proxy.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:51 (eighteen years ago)

See what happens when you people try to determine what is the "best" of anything?

― dan m, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

Paul Newman is very funny in The Hudsucker Proxy.

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:52 (eighteen years ago)

Nick, you're one cool customer. Movies emotionally engage you, manipulate you, provide an outlet for voyeurism, etc. (Rear Window is *about* that.) It doesn't much matter that the objects of the sadism are not real people, except that nobody really goes to jail at the end, etc. But from the POV of the audience that is engaged in the movie, there's no difference. Hitchcock humiliates the female characters in his movies, ALL of his movies. Certainly this is not a crime, but it IS sadistic, because the intention is sadistic, the impulse that drives him and that he asks us to join in is sadistic.

― kenan, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:53 (eighteen years ago)

morbs otm again!

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:53 (eighteen years ago)

paul newman makes a very good salad dressing

― deej, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

jk i am not the lex

― deej, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

BUT IS IT THE BEST SALAD DRESSING?

― dan m, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

ha ha

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:54 (eighteen years ago)

NEWMAN'S DRESSING IS, ULTIMATELY, SOULLESS -- A POINTLESS GENRE EXERCISE IN RECREATING THE SALAD DRESSINGS OF THE 1930S WITHOUT THE HEART. I ENJOY IT ON MY GREENS, BUT WHEN I FINISH, I ASK MYSELF WAHT THE POINT OF THAT SALAD EVEN WAS.

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

I love the Hudsucker Proxy. The whole "production/popularization of the hula hoop" sequence is like the best thing ever.

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

HIS USE OF WASABI IS SADISTIC.

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON NEWMAN'S ONE-NOTE SALSA

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

hahahahah bless you, alex

― horseshoe, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:56 (eighteen years ago)

Newman's Own Caesar Salad Dressing is very good on artichoke hearts, but you'dd probably think inflicting this meal on myself is sadistic.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

ONLY A SADIST WOULD PUT SUCH A DRESSING ON INNOCENT GREENS

xposts

― dan m, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

Describing a director who "tortures" fictional characters as "sadistic" is kind of the definition of not being able to distinguish something that happens on film from something that happens in real life.

there will probably be 10,000 posts that make this point better before I finish this, but there's a difference between saying a director's films are sadistic and HEY THAT DIRECTOR'S A SADIST PUT HIM AWAY.

if you can come up with a term that's better than sadistic for a director who appears to derive pleasure from torturing the audience, we'll go with that.

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

i like watching movies

― Mr. Que, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

lololoololol

― deej, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

@ salad dressing gag

― deej, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:57 (eighteen years ago)

xxpost I did too until I found this board.

― dan m, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:58 (eighteen years ago)

nick is too detatched to let a silly movie manipulate him or communicate its values to him.

― kenan, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

there will probably be 10,000 posts that make this point better funnier before I finish this

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

I will rescreen Intolerable Cruelty after showering with Newman's Own Sockittome dressing FUCK ALL OF YOU.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

if you can come up with a term that's better than sadistic for a director who appears to derive pleasure from torturing the audience, we'll go with that.

HOW ABOUT "PENNY MARSHALL" AM I RIGHT FELLAS?

― n/a, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:59 (eighteen years ago)

newman's own organic coffee is pretty darn good, try it out

― kenan, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:00 (eighteen years ago)

FUCK DRESSING A SALAD

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:02 (eighteen years ago)

TS: Penny Marshall vs. Garry Marshall

― David R., Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:03 (eighteen years ago)

to leave your salad undressed suggests voyeuristic tendencies, edward. i mean that as an aesthetic, not a moral judgement.

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:03 (eighteen years ago)

[xpost]

You can also choose seppuku.

― David R., Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:03 (eighteen years ago)

THE SALAD IS NAKED SO NAKED

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:03 (eighteen years ago)

what were we talking about again?

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:04 (eighteen years ago)

I must go into my John Turturro riff again.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:05 (eighteen years ago)

salad bukkake?

― kenan, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:05 (eighteen years ago)

oh kenan

― David R., Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:05 (eighteen years ago)

ts: dressing a salad vs. tossing a salad

― kenan, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:08 (eighteen years ago)

kenan i hate you

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:11 (eighteen years ago)

i mean you took everything alex did that was really funny and you ruined everything.

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:11 (eighteen years ago)

"Hitchcock humiliates the female characters in his movies, ALL of his movies."

yeah um bullshit.

― deeznuts, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:12 (eighteen years ago)

i'm sorry ally. :(

― kenan, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:21 (eighteen years ago)

salad isn't even real food

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:22 (eighteen years ago)

it's ok kenan i don't really hate you just don't do it again

― the schef (adam schefter ha ha), Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:28 (eighteen years ago)

tracer wtf

― gff, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:37 (eighteen years ago)

never have i been more furious

― gff, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 19:38 (eighteen years ago)

you can take it out on your salad later

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:14 (eighteen years ago)

"I will rescreen Intolerable Cruelty after showering with Newman's Own Sockittome dressing FUCK ALL OF YOU.

-- Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 18:59"

Zounds! Do you own a movie theatre?

― Frogman Henry, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:24 (eighteen years ago)

I don't know what to say to like 90% of this thread, but The Man Who Wasn't There is underrated, I think.

― jaymc, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:25 (eighteen years ago)

what the hell does that have to do with salad?

― Edward III, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:41 (eighteen years ago)

All of my C-Bros movies are on VHS. I hate fucking technological innovation, because now VHS is absolutely unwatchable.

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:54 (eighteen years ago)

planned obsolescence baby

― Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 20:56 (eighteen years ago)

[Removed Illegal Link]

― and what, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 21:15 (eighteen years ago)

SEE WHAT I MEAN?!?!

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Wednesday, 4 April 2007 21:18 (eighteen years ago)

i just watched trees lounge again for the first time since it came out and i think it's more ambitious than anything the coen bros have ever done

― Tracer Hand, Thursday, 5 April 2007 02:49 (eighteen years ago)

I love the Hudsucker Proxy. The whole "production/popularization of the hula hoop" sequence is like the best thing ever.

sam raimi otm

― energy flash gordon, Thursday, 5 April 2007 04:21 (eighteen years ago)

i watched that Trees Lounge too last night, loved it but still would pick lebowski over it.

― Ste, Thursday, 5 April 2007 10:09 (eighteen years ago)

two weeks pass...
bump, closes tonight (I think).

― Billy Dods, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 08:37 (eighteen years ago)

this is way late and many many x-posts, but i'd like to just add that i finally watched the big lebowski about a year ago, long after everyone else had watched it, long after all my stoner friends had mentioned it with that stupid stoner grin plastered on their faces, and yes, i did watch it baked, but i still think it's one of the most good-natured films they've ever made--there's distance between writer and character, like there is in all of their films, but the distance isn't glib or gaping. there's a fondness for the characters that feels uhh more real than some of the other caricatures they've come up with (maybe because the movie is closer to home geographically and topically?), and the actors rise to the material and jeff bridges is unimpeachable, etc. that being said, i am not a coen brothers fan in general and i'd probably go with...

big lebowski > raising arizona >>>> fargo > blood simple >>>>>>>>>>>> the rest (though i haven't seen miller's crossing or I.C. or the ladykillers, cuz i lost interest after the abortion that was the man who wasn't there, which reminded me of steven soderberg, who is shit beyond shit, totally worthless, etc.). oh, and barton fink is a pile of garbage, as is hudsucker proxy, that is all.

― strgn, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 09:40 (eighteen years ago)

Definitely prefer their "middle" period :

Barton Fink, The Hudsucker Proxy, Fargo & The Big Lebowski

: but my vote is for Fargo; more specifically, for the woodchipper.

― SeekAltRoute, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 10:33 (eighteen years ago)

RAISING ARIZONA is the funniest film i've ever seen,
but 'miller's...' takes it.

― pisces, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 11:02 (eighteen years ago)

You can't see the closing time for polls anymore, they should be automatically included in the first post.

― Tuomas, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 12:54 (eighteen years ago)

barton fink for me, as a faulkner fan. i think it's their most "wtf?" film.

― akm, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:40 (eighteen years ago)

You can't see the closing time for polls anymore

You can if you change your style setting to boxy britpop ILX. Preferences>change style>keith.css

― chap, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:59 (eighteen years ago)

My faves:

1. The Big Lebowski (I'll refrain from quoting) - reminds me far too much of my father and his, erm, associates, but damn, there's some achingly funny scenes in there.

2. Oh Brother (not a "great" film, but I love the whole look/feel and the music).

3/4. Toss-up between Fargo and Raising Arizona, depending on my mood.

― MsLaura, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 05:06 (eighteen years ago)

The Dude abides.

I expected this to be much closer than it was. I'm not surprised by the winner, I expected Lebowski or Fargo to win but the margin is surprising. I thought Miller's Crossing may have fared better and Hudsucker a little worse.

― Billy Dods, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 08:31 (eighteen years ago)

huh.

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 12:56 (eighteen years ago)

no intolerable cruelty love ;_;

― ghost rider, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 12:56 (eighteen years ago)

yeah it's kind of sad that got NO votes. i think it's a very funny movie.

― gff, Wednesday, 25 April 2007 13:19 (eighteen years ago)

one year passes...

"It’s that last point that has environmentalists counterpunching. Since December, the Reality Coalition, a group of environmental interests led by former Vice President Al Gore’s Alliance for Climate Protection, has run television ads of its own and plastered billboards in the nation’s capital with the message: “In reality, there’s no such thing as clean coal.” The coalition also has Oscar-winning filmmakers Joel and Ethan Coen directing ads spoofing ACCCE as a pitchman peddling room-blackening air spray that “harnesses the awesome power of the word clean.”"

?! anyone seen these ads?

― shit was shocking as fuck back then (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 15:49 (sixteen years ago)

fargo

― the great wallogina (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 15:50 (sixteen years ago)

I can't recall if I voted in this poll, but I certainly didn't vote for the Big Lebowski.

― Alex in SF, Tuesday, 21 April 2009 15:53 (sixteen years ago)

wow miller's crossing is horribly underrated on ILx

― Old Big 'OOS (AKA the Cupwinner) (darraghmac), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 16:07 (sixteen years ago)

that's a genuine surprise

― Old Big 'OOS (AKA the Cupwinner) (darraghmac), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 16:08 (sixteen years ago)

dude.

― Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 16:08 (sixteen years ago)

also 5 votes seems like too few for blood simple, but i can't really blame anyone. i love that movie, but no way would i vote it ahead of fargo, lebowski, (NCFOM), or miller's crossing

― the great wallogina (k3vin k.), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 16:24 (sixteen years ago)

ncfom, miller's crossing, barton fink, blood simple, raising arizona, o brother (in about that order)

― macarooni (omar little), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 17:20 (sixteen years ago)

guys I asked a question

― shit was shocking as fuck back then (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 17:24 (sixteen years ago)

did you forget how to google

― elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 21 April 2009 17:28 (sixteen years ago)

i saw the ad; meh

― elmo argonaut, Tuesday, 21 April 2009 17:29 (sixteen years ago)

― Ømår Littel (Jordan), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 17:30 (sixteen years ago)

it just seems like such a weird thing for them to do, I was curious what people thought of them

― shit was shocking as fuck back then (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 21 April 2009 18:24 (sixteen years ago)

Not their best work.

― M.V., Tuesday, 21 April 2009 19:50 (sixteen years ago)

three weeks pass...

This sounds interesting.

Zhang Yimou to remake the Coen Brother's Blood Simple

― featuring Strawberry and the Shortcakes (Billy Dods), Friday, 15 May 2009 18:07 (sixteen years ago)

big lebowski, sheesh

― u have a new mistress my friend and her name is little debbie (omar little), Friday, 15 May 2009 18:12 (sixteen years ago)

SHUT UP DANNY LOL

― •--• --- --- •--• (Pleasant Plains), Friday, 15 May 2009 18:46 (sixteen years ago)

all excited for True Grit remake?

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 15 May 2009 20:49 (sixteen years ago)

Am more interested in them making 'To the White Sea', but I suspect that's not going to happen. At least any time soon anyway.

― featuring Strawberry and the Shortcakes (Billy Dods), Friday, 15 May 2009 21:05 (sixteen years ago)

big lebowski, sheesh

― u have a new mistress my friend and her name is little debbie (omar little), Friday, May 15, 2009 6:12 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― s1ocki, Friday, 15 May 2009 21:05 (sixteen years ago)

three months pass...

Starting to think Man Who Wasn't There might be my favorite by a good measure..

― bear, bear, bear, Sunday, 23 August 2009 06:42 (fifteen years ago)

eliminate first 3 finishers for stonerism

― Indiana Morbs and the Curse of the Ivy League Chorister (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 23 August 2009 07:43 (fifteen years ago)

two weeks pass...

Jeff Bridges in talks for 'True Grit'

― Terminator Eggs (Billy Dods), Saturday, 12 September 2009 10:44 (fifteen years ago)

i saw miller's crossing again recently and was shocked by how totally empty and just... nothing it was.

2 years later, surprised I didn't pick up on this at the time. I think Miller's Crossing is about the Tao and its emptiness is absolutely the point of it. (Also obv. reworking of Fistful of Dollars/Yojimbo) Byrne's character basically reaches his goals by inaction, or the appearance of inaction. Plus the whole mirror structure of the movie reinforces the rolling wheel of unfolding events vibe. I rate MC up there with Fargo as my fave Coen Brothers picture. Lebowski is really just a broader take on the themes of MC.

― Nostalgie de la Bwoyee (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 12 September 2009 10:52 (fifteen years ago)

i have never been able to watch fargo, and i have no idea why as everything about it suggests i should love it. as it is, miller's crossing is my favourite.

― Amateur Darraghmatics (darraghmac), Saturday, 12 September 2009 11:27 (fifteen years ago)

a serious man is really, really good.

― mountain G.O.A.T. (s1ocki), Saturday, 12 September 2009 12:06 (fifteen years ago)

Did you see it at TIFF s1ocki? Variety review didn't reveal too much about it.

― Terminator Eggs (Billy Dods), Saturday, 12 September 2009 12:14 (fifteen years ago)

yeah. so not what i was expecting, which was a another annoying coens comedy.

― mountain G.O.A.T. (s1ocki), Saturday, 12 September 2009 12:21 (fifteen years ago)

S1locki, please elaborate. Am really excited for this film.

― lacoste intolerant (suzy), Saturday, 12 September 2009 13:15 (fifteen years ago)

one year passes...

Attended this last Friday night -- discussing opening scenes with Noah Baumbach. (suboptimal video)

http://www.filmlinc.com/blog/entry/the-coen-brothers-with-noah-baumbauch-where-and-how-to-begin-a-film

― already president FYI (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 00:12 (fourteen years ago)

funniest moment was their reaction to the first scene of Blood Simple, then No Country, which both have a supporting voiceover over static landscape shots. ("tedious")

― already president FYI (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 June 2011 17:04 (fourteen years ago)

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/movies/2011/06/ethan-joel-coen-brothers-true-grist-dave-van-ronk-folk-dylan-music.html

I hope that Garth Pancake makes a cameo appearance in this.

― The multi-talented F.R. David (Billy Dods), Sunday, 26 June 2011 10:13 (thirteen years ago)

It may not be their best, but I'm kind of sad that TMWWT only got one vote; watched it maybe three times and every time I do I like it more. The final scene is devastating.

― Inevitable stupid samba mix (chap), Sunday, 26 June 2011 17:20 (thirteen years ago)

i liked TMWWT, i never understood the hate. maybe it's all the slow, creeping push-ins on billy bob's face while a mournful carter burwell score blares. fun movie!

― Ayatollah Colm Meaney (Princess TamTam), Sunday, 26 June 2011 23:37 (thirteen years ago)

Surprised that Miller's Crossing did so poorly in this poll, as that movie seemed to be the end all be all back in the late 90s.

― President Keyes, Monday, 27 June 2011 01:32 (thirteen years ago)

miller's crossing is the one that's always left me cold. i guess it's well made but i've always found it really uninvolving.

― Ayatollah Colm Meaney (Princess TamTam), Monday, 27 June 2011 02:06 (thirteen years ago)

Raising Arizona is the only one of the early ones I can stand.

― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 June 2011 02:08 (thirteen years ago)

three months pass...

And now...TV?

HarveKarbo features the type of quirky, offbeat characters that have become a staple of the Coen brothers’ movies. It follows the title character — an ill-tempered LA private investigator whose cases frequently involve the depraved doings of the Hollywood elite — and his deadbeat friends in Los Angeles’ El Segundo.

Production credits and co-creating the original idea and that's probably about it; still, sounds like it'll be a cross between Lebowski and Pynchon's Inherent Vice, kinda.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 5 October 2011 00:44 (thirteen years ago)

one year passes...

Went back to Barton Fink for the first time since its release. I disliked it intensely then; I rarely feel so negatively about any film these days (mostly I just shrug), so nothing like that this time. There were things about it I found intriguing. But the main thing that bothered me then was still hard to look past: how badly telegraphed Turturro's pomposity is for the first half.

― clemenza, Friday, 7 December 2012 04:02 (twelve years ago)

amazing how many of these i still need to see, when in HS i considered myself a huge fan of theirs

― k3vin k., Friday, 7 December 2012 04:15 (twelve years ago)

john goodman shoulda won an oscar for Fink

― turds (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 7 December 2012 04:18 (twelve years ago)

would be interesting 2 update this, id maybe vote for 'a srs man' tbrr

― johnny crunch, Friday, 7 December 2012 04:18 (twelve years ago)

if this happened again i might vote for a serious man. ha xp

― difficult listening hour, Friday, 7 December 2012 04:19 (twelve years ago)

same

― ~bacon trailblazer~ (schlump), Friday, 7 December 2012 04:20 (twelve years ago)

i would've voted fink when this poll was started, a serious man in 2010, but maybe fargo today

― turds (Hungry4Ass), Friday, 7 December 2012 04:20 (twelve years ago)

Goodman would have been a better nomination than Michael Lerner, for sure. I would have gone for someone from JFK, or Ice Cube in Boyz in the Hood that year.

― clemenza, Friday, 7 December 2012 04:24 (twelve years ago)

I would have gone for someone everyone from JFK

― difficult listening hour, Friday, 7 December 2012 04:26 (twelve years ago)

goodman incredible in BF tho yeah. never been much in love w the movie.

― difficult listening hour, Friday, 7 December 2012 04:27 (twelve years ago)

of the ones i've seen, still fargo. tho NCFOM and lebowski are close

― k3vin k., Friday, 7 December 2012 04:36 (twelve years ago)

fuck, now that i have a month off i might try to watch the 8 or so films of theirs i haven't seen

― k3vin k., Friday, 7 December 2012 04:37 (twelve years ago)

fargo, then serious man, then lebowski. tempted to put ASM first but i feel like ppl forget how good fargo is, it got dropped from the AFI top 100 list and everything.

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 7 December 2012 05:36 (twelve years ago)

man people really loved ASM huh? i think i saw it once but not...."seriously"

― k3vin k., Friday, 7 December 2012 05:39 (twelve years ago)

i actually hated it the first time i saw it, but i saw it again six months later and somehow it...resonated.

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 7 December 2012 05:55 (twelve years ago)

fargo is their most perfect movie, but a serious man is, at least for me, their most interesting.

― Clay, Friday, 7 December 2012 06:10 (twelve years ago)

"the goy? ...who cares?"

― difficult listening hour, Friday, 7 December 2012 06:12 (twelve years ago)

nine months pass...

http://blogs.indiewire.com/thompsononhollywood/toh-ranks-the-films-of-the-coen-brothers

No Country and Fargo at the top + Lebowski outside of the top 10 = I can get with that.

― midnight outdoor nude frolic up north goes south (Eric H.), Monday, 30 September 2013 13:38 (eleven years ago)

true grit too low.

― i wanna be a gabbneb baby (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 30 September 2013 13:50 (eleven years ago)

So are Burn After Reading and A Serious Man, but what are you going to do, have a 8-way tie for #1?

― midnight outdoor nude frolic up north goes south (Eric H.), Monday, 30 September 2013 13:53 (eleven years ago)

Burn After Reading might be a bit of a sleeper classic, gets seriously better with each viewing.

― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 30 September 2013 15:22 (eleven years ago)

feel the same way about Werckmeister Harmonies

― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 September 2013 15:25 (eleven years ago)

I tried to rank the Coen's films myself once and just couldn't do it. The ones I love, I love for such different reasons.

― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 30 September 2013 15:27 (eleven years ago)

but u can fit almost two screenings of burn after reading into one harmonies, so it will always get twice as good each time

― zvookster, Monday, 30 September 2013 15:31 (eleven years ago)

No Country to A Serious Man to Burn After Reading, no one is better at movie endings right now than the Coens.

― midnight outdoor nude frolic up north goes south (Eric H.), Monday, 30 September 2013 15:39 (eleven years ago)

that true grit blurb's weird

― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:03 (eleven years ago)

haven't seen the movie since the theatre so i don't remember how conspicuous this rock is but if i remember outside right there are a lotta rocks around

― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:04 (eleven years ago)

"making the traditional western better"

anyway i've now seen a serious man more than any of the others, i think, except maybe fargo.

― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:05 (eleven years ago)

Anyone know where to find the pic of the Coen brothers where they're standing in front of the bookshelf with all of their scripts on it? I would guess it was from the mid-00s and there were a bunch on scripts for movies that hadn't been made yet. Just got to thinking that I'm sure some of them have by now.

― how's life, Monday, 30 September 2013 16:08 (eleven years ago)

Almost identical to my own top three--No Country, Fargo, Miller's Crossing--so no complaints. I like parts of Lebowski, but its winning margin on this thread (let alone winning at all) is puzzling.

― clemenza, Monday, 30 September 2013 16:22 (eleven years ago)

It's far and away the most amiable of their movies.

― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:24 (eleven years ago)

although they've gotten more amiable and crueller since then

― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:25 (eleven years ago)

oh really? *toke* xxp

Just glad they grew out of the 1990-2000 Snark Era.

― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:27 (eleven years ago)

It is amiable, yes--they've got that strain running through a number of films (Arizona, O Brother, etc. I guess the new one will belong to that group.) I like their noir side better. (Though not always--didn't care for The Man Who Wasn't There.)

― clemenza, Monday, 30 September 2013 16:30 (eleven years ago)

from the interview in the Llewyn thread, which is the one to be on today:

We were in the office and Joel said, “O.K., suppose Dave Van Ronk gets beat up outside of Gerde’s Folk City. That’s the beginning of a movie.”

"amiable"

― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:33 (eleven years ago)

t is amiable, yes--they've got that strain running through a number of films (Arizona

I've argued with morbz about this, but every time I see Arizona on TV it strikes me as pretty hateful

― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:35 (eleven years ago)

it's pretty much just "lol hicks"

― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:36 (eleven years ago)

It was just a guess, Morbius--not an unreasonable one, if you haven't seen it. It's so funny to see you complain about someone else's snark when you're addicted to same.

― clemenza, Monday, 30 September 2013 16:36 (eleven years ago)

(Though not always--didn't care for The Man Who Wasn't There.)

― clemenza,

It's another grower - I'd recommend trying it again, I found it very affecting the second time. The last line is heartbreaking.

― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:38 (eleven years ago)

Shamefully I've only seen Miller's Crossing once, need to get on a second viewing of that.

― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:39 (eleven years ago)

snark is trivial and baseless, my shit brings the noise

― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:51 (eleven years ago)

suppose Dave Van Ronk gets beat up outside of Gerde’s Folk City

I don't understand a single word in this sentence.

― midnight outdoor nude frolic up north goes south (Eric H.), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:53 (eleven years ago)

you climb rocks "inside," correct?

― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 September 2013 16:58 (eleven years ago)

Shamefully I've only seen Miller's Crossing once, need to get on a second viewing of that.

gay love triangle subtext of this was completely lost on me until the 3rd or 4th time around tbh

― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 September 2013 17:02 (eleven years ago)

Haha, remember nothing of that. Movie about gangsters shooting each other as far as I remember.

― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 30 September 2013 17:04 (eleven years ago)

for all the dialogue, it's never explicitly stated, but it's the Dane-Mink-Bernie, with the Dane wanting Bernie dead for getting between him and Mink

― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 September 2013 17:06 (eleven years ago)

eric xp dave van ronk was a folk singer during the early 60s folk revival, gerde's folk city was a well-known club in greenwich village where van ronk, bob dylan, and others played

― marcos, Monday, 30 September 2013 17:16 (eleven years ago)

you climb rocks "inside," correct?

Morbs, I say this with nothing resembling love: off belay.

― midnight outdoor nude frolic up north goes south (Eric H.), Monday, 30 September 2013 17:18 (eleven years ago)

haha i watched millers crossing again like a year ago and i was like 'holy crap theres a lot of homos in this movie'... how did i never notice all the homo stuff. maybe i just forgot it was in there

― i wanna be a gabbneb baby (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 30 September 2013 17:18 (eleven years ago)

and then i found out that both jon polito and the guy who played the Dane are gay irl, which really twisted my melon

― i wanna be a gabbneb baby (Hungry4Ass), Monday, 30 September 2013 17:19 (eleven years ago)

snark is trivial and baseless, my shit brings the noise

― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, September 30, 2013 11:51 AM

lol, you fucking wish

― cops on horse (WilliamC), Monday, 30 September 2013 17:22 (eleven years ago)

i aim to correct, that is not what snark does

the Coens clearly hate most humans -- so far, so good -- but did not consistently express it artfully until the 21st century.

― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 September 2013 17:24 (eleven years ago)

I never mind being corrected--I encourage it. Much prefer that it be done without wildly inappropriate scare quotes, though.

― clemenza, Monday, 30 September 2013 17:57 (eleven years ago)

the Coens clearly hate most humans

When the truth is found to be lies and all the joy within you dies, whaddaya going to do? Make films maybe? Make with the funny?

― Aimless, Monday, 30 September 2013 18:15 (eleven years ago)

actual quotes are now scare quotes

"oooookay"

― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 September 2013 18:44 (eleven years ago)

*farts*

― JEFF 22 (Matt P), Monday, 30 September 2013 19:12 (eleven years ago)

that's my line!

― you are kind, I am (waterface), Monday, 30 September 2013 19:14 (eleven years ago)

I'm the farter!

― you are kind, I am (waterface), Monday, 30 September 2013 19:14 (eleven years ago)

You are not the farter!

― midnight outdoor nude frolic up north goes south (Eric H.), Monday, 30 September 2013 19:40 (eleven years ago)

the coens clearly fail to come up to the swiftian level of dennis perrin

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 30 September 2013 21:01 (eleven years ago)

he's done a lot more drugs than i have, probly likes em more.

Barton Fink is the farter.

― Miss Arlington twirls for the Coal Heavers (Dr Morbius), Monday, 30 September 2013 21:19 (eleven years ago)

farternity test

― what's up ugly girls? (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 30 September 2013 21:22 (eleven years ago)

three weeks pass...

The Lightbox has half a retrospective playing here in November and December to coincide with Inside Llewyn Davis. Everything playing I've seen, so I stuck with my favourites--would have taken a chance on The Hudsucker Proxy if it had been included. The great thing is, my screenings are on four consecutive nights: Fargo, Miller's Crossing, No Country, Blood Simple. It'll be Coen nirvana.

― clemenza, Saturday, 26 October 2013 18:09 (eleven years ago)

As in you've never seen The Hudsucker Proxy?! Their most undervalued film, imho.

― a fifth of misty beethoven (cryptosicko), Saturday, 26 October 2013 18:15 (eleven years ago)

like Neil Young, hit their stride in their 40s

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 October 2013 18:22 (eleven years ago)

Yep, pretty much with Fargo.

― midnight outdoor nude frolic up north goes south (Eric H.), Saturday, 26 October 2013 18:30 (eleven years ago)

*sigh*, mid 40s

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 October 2013 18:33 (eleven years ago)

not sure i agree with you 100% on your police work there morbs

― twist boat veterans for stability (k3vin k.), Saturday, 26 October 2013 19:29 (eleven years ago)

not gonna repeat eveything we've been saying for 8 years, nighty night

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 26 October 2013 19:37 (eleven years ago)

No, I've never seen Hudsucker. It came after Barton Fink, which at the time I didn't like at all. (As I wrote somewhere on here, it looked better when I went back to it last year.)

― clemenza, Saturday, 26 October 2013 19:39 (eleven years ago)

(Neil in his '40s? We're worlds apart there, Morbius...wrong thread.)

― clemenza, Saturday, 26 October 2013 19:40 (eleven years ago)

not gonna repeat eveything we've been saying for 8 years

pvmnic

― ͼѾͽ (sic), Saturday, 26 October 2013 19:49 (eleven years ago)

Hudsucker is v funny

― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Saturday, 26 October 2013 20:13 (eleven years ago)

would vote the shit outta a serious man if this poll ran tomorrow

― schlump, Saturday, 26 October 2013 21:18 (eleven years ago)

well, we COULD poll their movies since 2007.

― the objections to Drake from non-REAL HIPHOP people (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 26 October 2013 21:19 (eleven years ago)

Hudsucker is indeed very funny, and also very clearly shows Raimi's influence in that way (he co-wrote and co-directed)

― ͼѾͽ (sic), Sunday, 27 October 2013 02:17 (eleven years ago)

And did a visual (silhouette) /voice cameo

― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Sunday, 27 October 2013 02:46 (eleven years ago)

one month passes...

A couple of things from a screening of Miller's Crossing tonight. 1) Small theatre, mostly full, applause after the sequence where Finney's home is ambushed--deserved, I'd say; 2) I noticed for the first time tonight how much Finney's missed for that stretch where he disappears from the film--I mean, Byrne's great too, and the film moves along fine, but when Finney returns, something's restored.

― clemenza, Saturday, 30 November 2013 04:59 (eleven years ago)

Was in Best Buy last night, saw a box containing Blood Simple, Raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing and Fargo on Blu-Ray for $20. Didn't buy it, now regretful.

― Humorist (horse) (誤訳侮辱), Saturday, 30 November 2013 18:05 (eleven years ago)

I know what you mean about the Finney absence - it leaves a hole just like when Thelma Ritter disappears from the last half of "All About Eve".

I wish I could get downtown for that retrospective (too lazy & thrifty). I haven't seen "Blood Simple" in a decade, and no Coens at all on an actual screen since '98.

― Sir Lord Baltimora (Myonga Vön Bontee), Saturday, 30 November 2013 23:22 (eleven years ago)

Man, do I wish revival houses still commonly existed.

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 1 December 2013 00:00 (eleven years ago)

It's been pretty great, Myonga--Blood Simple tomorrow.

Seeing No Country and Fargo so close together has reinforced for me how similar they are in one key respect: the way they both end with a scene of quiet domesticity in the face of something neither Jones nor McDormand can comprehend. Jones verbalizes his disorientation more often, but McDormand does too as she drives in Peter Stormare near the end. (Stormare's implacability also seems to point towards Bardem's, though obviously Stormare's not purely psychopathic.)

One other similarity I find somewhat implausible in both films: the willingness of Brolin and Buscemi to abandon suitcases filled with large sums of money to chance.

― clemenza, Sunday, 1 December 2013 04:04 (eleven years ago)

no country always feels like a clumsier fargo to me for that reason. tommy lee jones speechifying about extravagant evils instead of one line about how there's more to life than money. and a preturnatural psychopath instead of people whose weaknesses make them destructive.

― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Sunday, 1 December 2013 05:06 (eleven years ago)

but it does have "he's seen everything i've seen, and it's certainly made an impression upon me."

― i want to say one word to you, just one word:buzzfeed (difficult listening hour), Sunday, 1 December 2013 05:07 (eleven years ago)

I will never get folks' opinions on Fargo; for one, it never doesn't feel to me like Macy's movie, like far and away...

Also, I kind of think that the best filter for No Country isn't past Coens movies but, like, Steinbeck's The Pearl + Robocop

― Drugs A. Money, Sunday, 1 December 2013 09:26 (eleven years ago)

never got fargo. certainly never got where it could be considered superior to NCFOM. personal thing obv.

― 30 ch'lopping days left to umas (darraghmac), Sunday, 1 December 2013 14:27 (eleven years ago)

I think Macy and McDormand are both pretty great. In terms of how the story unfolds, yes, it's Macy's film--I was thinking this last time how precise and pure an example it is (like The Killing) of noir's dictum that everything falls apart.

Above and beyond how terrifying I find Bardem, there's definitely a cartoonish Jason/Freddy aspect to him. It doesn't make him any less terrifying, but I'm aware of it.

Great line, DLH. Another favourite: "He don't talk as much as you, I give him points for that."

Thought I posted this before, but I can't find it on this or the No Country thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4AeXMEIeNI

― clemenza, Sunday, 1 December 2013 15:02 (eleven years ago)

i like when carla jean asks llewelyn where he got the gun and he says "at the gettin place"

― Hungry4Ass, Sunday, 1 December 2013 18:12 (eleven years ago)

world cinema is great and i always say "la regle du jeu" like brolin now

― Hungry4Ass, Sunday, 1 December 2013 18:13 (eleven years ago)

Can't decide which has the most heartbreaking end monologue, No Country or the Man Who Wasn't There

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejg4wNPAe0o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXNfxK5Q2Qg

― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Sunday, 1 December 2013 18:25 (eleven years ago)

Fargo kinda reminds me of Sam Raimi's A Simple Plan, a movie I feel like has been unjustly forgotten.

― Humorist (horse) (誤訳侮辱), Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:12 (eleven years ago)

Yeah that's a decent flick.

― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Sunday, 1 December 2013 20:32 (eleven years ago)

Still where I've always been with Blood Simple: three or four striking shots, a certain ingenuity, and M. Emmet Walsh, but it's never quite clicked with me--so, so slow.

― clemenza, Monday, 2 December 2013 00:19 (eleven years ago)

brolin is amazing in that 'world cinema" thing.

― i lost my shoes on acid (jed_), Monday, 2 December 2013 01:04 (eleven years ago)

I won't lie: I always thought Turkish people spoke Turkish too.

― clemenza, Monday, 2 December 2013 01:18 (eleven years ago)

A Simple Plan is a great film. Did Billy Bob retire from acting?

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 2 December 2013 03:16 (eleven years ago)

Jesus, he's made a dozen films since 2007, which is the last time he made one I've heard of, I think.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 2 December 2013 03:18 (eleven years ago)

clemenza, was there a title card before Blood simple

― Hungry4Ass, Monday, 2 December 2013 03:54 (eleven years ago)

Help...not sure what that means.

― clemenza, Monday, 2 December 2013 13:46 (eleven years ago)

Are you asking if it was the so-called "Director's Cut," the one that actually ran shorter with the fireside chat introduction?

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 2 December 2013 14:18 (eleven years ago)

I've read about that...What I saw yesterday was in a theatre, by the looks of it (less than great print) the film as it was originally released.

― clemenza, Monday, 2 December 2013 14:32 (eleven years ago)

I won't lie: I always thought Turkish people spoke Turkish too.

― clemenza, Monday, 2 December 2013 01:18 (13 hours ago) Permalink

i dont know what this is in reference to but... a lot of them do?

― just sayin, Monday, 2 December 2013 15:19 (eleven years ago)

(afaik)

― just sayin, Monday, 2 December 2013 15:19 (eleven years ago)

You've got to watch "World Cinema" (just above) for that to make sense.

― clemenza, Monday, 2 December 2013 15:46 (eleven years ago)

Pretty sure "Turkic" is an adjective referring to the language grouping, not the language. Dude is definitely wrong.

― i wish i had a skateboard i could skate away on (Hurting 2), Monday, 2 December 2013 16:01 (eleven years ago)

fwiw the Climates trailer looks like a parody of an art film trailer. Anyone seen the film?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNVTb7LNZn8

― i wish i had a skateboard i could skate away on (Hurting 2), Monday, 2 December 2013 16:02 (eleven years ago)

I used to go out with a Turk, she never called her language anything but Turkish.

― I wish to incorporate disco into my small business (chap), Monday, 2 December 2013 16:13 (eleven years ago)

What's the Turk paying you to set up my father, chap?

― clemenza, Monday, 2 December 2013 16:21 (eleven years ago)

Climates is a great film, absolutely. And it has a bit of nudity. Not as great as Once Upon a Time in Anatolia, but then again, what is?

― Frederik B, Monday, 2 December 2013 16:39 (eleven years ago)

I've read about that...What I saw yesterday was in a theatre, by the looks of it (less than great print) the film as it was originally released.

― clemenza, Monday, December 2, 2013 9:32 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark

i read that tiff ran it with a title card beforehand saying something like they wanted to recreate as much as possible the original, authentic viewing experience, was wondering if that meant 80s print or rerelease print

― Hungry4Ass, Monday, 2 December 2013 17:10 (eleven years ago)

The Treasure of the Sierra Madre >> A Simple Plan >>>> Fargo

I've seen two BB Thornton films in the last 3 months, both of which I wish never existed (tho his acting was OK to fine in both).

― eclectic husbandry (Dr Morbius), Monday, 2 December 2013 18:15 (eleven years ago)

I agree with that ranking. a simple plan is incredible.

― christmas candy bar (al leong), Monday, 2 December 2013 18:21 (eleven years ago)

One of the great things about A Simple Plan is the sense that it is never making fun of or mocking its working class protagonists, which isn't necessarily true of Fargo, intentional or not. You feel absolutely, gut-wrenchingly bad for everyone in A Simple Plan, which is definitely not the case in Fargo.

Plus: Gary Cole!

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 2 December 2013 18:36 (eleven years ago)

Climates is a great film, absolutely. And it has a bit of nudity. Not as great as Once Upon a Time in Anatolia, but then again, what is?

― Frederik B, Monday, December 2, 2013 11:39 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

its on tcm next week fwiw

― johnny crunch, Monday, 2 December 2013 18:42 (eleven years ago)

the one thing I remember about A Simple Plan is Billy Bob delivering that monologue about how everyone treats him like a moron etc. genuinely affecting and yeah, evidence that the characters are not played for laughs.

― Ayn Rand Akbar (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 2 December 2013 18:55 (eleven years ago)

four months pass...

wtf
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bko7Mn3CcAAhKGI.jpg

― How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 April 2014 19:18 (eleven years ago)

it's an 'anthology series' and appears to take the setting and dark comedy tone from the movie but none of the characters/stories. weird idea but if they do it well i'm down.

― some dude, Monday, 7 April 2014 19:24 (eleven years ago)

yeah they've been advertising it like crazy and the ads leave me skeptical but ppl who've supposedly seen some of it are very excited. still think the 90s marge gunderson as columbo direction i'm assuming the edie falco one took is a better way to go.

― balls, Monday, 7 April 2014 19:42 (eleven years ago)

solves crimes pregnant for the first season, solves crimes w/ a baby bjorn strapped to her for subsequent seasons

― some dude, Monday, 7 April 2014 19:57 (eleven years ago)

Wait, isn't he doing Better Call Saul?

― Nhex, Monday, 7 April 2014 20:03 (eleven years ago)

yes

― balls, Monday, 7 April 2014 20:04 (eleven years ago)

how dare he make three different tv series in one year

― Charles, hatless (sic), Monday, 7 April 2014 22:32 (eleven years ago)

First 5 or 10 minutes of pilot are online somewhere. Martin Freeman more or less just steals the William H Macy character's mannerisms wholesale, but it looked like it could be ok

― sktsh, Monday, 7 April 2014 23:20 (eleven years ago)

Martin Freeman does American in it? Weird.

― the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 01:16 (eleven years ago)

ten months pass...

Finally saw "Blood Simple". A thousand different things to say about it, but the recurring gag of Ray living on a dead-end street was amazing.

― pplains, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 14:38 (ten years ago)

I opened this thread and rummaged around in it a while. I noticed the love for Hudsucker Proxy far upthread.

imo the main problem with Hudsucker is that the Coens are wearing clothes they borrowed from Preston Sturges, who they obviously adore, and while this is probably the best ersatz Sturges film ever made, it never quite felt free flowing or natural to me, for the simple reason that the Coens aren't Preston Sturges, so the borrowed clothes never really fit them correctly. They had similar problems with The Ladykillers, but far more pronounced and the result fell flat on its face.

otoh, when their movies are based more directly in their own humor and invention, like their later Sturges homage O, Brother! Where Art Thou, or like Fargo and A Serious Man, the result feels much more effortless and less labored.

― Aimless, Tuesday, 3 March 2015 17:50 (ten years ago)

seven months pass...

This looks fun:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMqeoW3XRa0

― the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Friday, 9 October 2015 16:39 (nine years ago)

looks great

― Οὖτις, Friday, 9 October 2015 16:43 (nine years ago)

This is just what I need right now. Been listening to the You Must Remember This podcast and learning about twentieth century Hollywood stars and moguls for the first time. This movie will dovetail nicely with that.

Also, just to repeat my plea from two years ago:

Anyone know where to find the pic of the Coen brothers where they're standing in front of the bookshelf with all of their scripts on it? I would guess it was from the mid-00s and there were a bunch on scripts for movies that hadn't been made yet. Just got to thinking that I'm sure some of them have by now.

― how's life, Monday, September 30, 2013 12:08 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think I saw it in Esquire or GQ or some other men's magazine.

― the cuddling of the american behind (how's life), Friday, 9 October 2015 16:54 (nine years ago)

coming out on my birthday :)

― lil urbane (Jordan), Friday, 9 October 2015 16:56 (nine years ago)

haha, hail caesar looks awesome.

― tylerw, Friday, 9 October 2015 18:13 (nine years ago)

The tone of that Hail Caesar trailer is pure farce, which is very hard to do right, but if they get pacing right, it ought to be one of their best.

― Aimless, Friday, 9 October 2015 18:24 (nine years ago)

Looks fantastic. And the Coens track record with farce is encouraging.

― The New Gay Sadness (cryptosicko), Saturday, 10 October 2015 13:30 (nine years ago)

yeah i was gonna say, are we really worried about these guys being able to do farce!?

― some dude, Saturday, 10 October 2015 14:15 (nine years ago)

although it was funny to me to watch a trailer full of glamorous movie stars, many of which have never been in a Coen film before, and at the end Clooney opens a door to a room full of the kind of funny-looking old character actors that are usually in greater supply in their movies.

― some dude, Saturday, 10 October 2015 14:16 (nine years ago)

existential terror coens >>> farce coens imo, but I guess everyone needs a break now and again

― (extremely nerds voice) (Clay), Saturday, 10 October 2015 17:36 (nine years ago)

When they mixed existential terror with farce, we got A Serious Man, which is currently my favorite of their oeuvre.

― Aimless, Saturday, 10 October 2015 17:43 (nine years ago)

The underrated Burn After Reading as well, sorta.

― the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Saturday, 10 October 2015 17:45 (nine years ago)

yeah I'm a BAR stan as well

― the naive cockney chorus (Simon H.), Saturday, 10 October 2015 17:52 (nine years ago)

we should do this poll again, they've made five decent-to-killer movies since!

― the naive cockney chorus (Simon H.), Saturday, 10 October 2015 17:53 (nine years ago)

watched that three times and i think it was for brolin's "good lord!"

imo god came to shakespeare in a dream and showed him julius caesar (mankiewicz 1953) and shakespeare in wonderment knew at last who and what he was and blessed the bitterness of his life, so i am hyped

― playlists of pensive swift (difficult listening hour), Saturday, 10 October 2015 18:16 (nine years ago)

saw big lebowski again recently, i think its insanity is part of its cult appeal but it's not that good, at all really. out of what i've seen of theirs it's maybe my least favorite, and i think i've seen everything except for intolerable cruelty and the ladykillers (which i've heard are their worst.)

― nomar, Saturday, 10 October 2015 18:42 (nine years ago)

I wonder if an older Barton Fink might make a cameo in Hail Cesar?

― the joke should be over once the kid is eaten. (chap), Saturday, 10 October 2015 19:44 (nine years ago)

intolerable cruelty underrated imo

― balls, Saturday, 10 October 2015 21:40 (nine years ago)

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--0iPWki0E--/c_fill,fl_progressive,g_center,h_200,q_80,w_200/k1t2qnzuhlnp1stwa9xz.png

Just thought this thread needed a photo of the guy who wrote the Jezebel post "The Coen Brothers' New Movie Hail Caesar! Looks Very Funny, and Very White."

― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Saturday, 10 October 2015 21:50 (nine years ago)

Hey at least... Robert Picardo... got in. Yeah, I got nothin'.

― Nhex, Saturday, 10 October 2015 22:28 (nine years ago)

tbf to the Coen Brothers just every film that takes place in some kind of glamorous American pre-60s time... hrm. yeah...

― Nhex, Saturday, 10 October 2015 22:30 (nine years ago)

The Coen Brothers' New Movie Hail Caesar! Looks Very Funny, and Very White

the almost-certainly-useless thinkpiece I knew was coming halfway through the trailer

― the naive cockney chorus (Simon H.), Saturday, 10 October 2015 22:44 (nine years ago)

Man I will ride hard for Intolerable Cruelty

― bunny slopes, Saturday, 10 October 2015 22:53 (nine years ago)

Um, the Hollywood movie industry prior to 1965 was at least 99% white.

― Aimless, Saturday, 10 October 2015 23:43 (nine years ago)

Um, the Hollywood movie industry prior to 1965 was at least 99% white.

This was brought up by commenters. The response was (literally) to post the dictionary definition of the word "fiction" over and over.

― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Sunday, 11 October 2015 01:16 (nine years ago)

Aren't all Coen Bros movies 99% white?

― pplains, Sunday, 11 October 2015 01:24 (nine years ago)

Even the black guys in their movies like the Eagles.

― pplains, Sunday, 11 October 2015 01:24 (nine years ago)

Well, yeah.

― Love, Wilco (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 11 October 2015 02:01 (nine years ago)

Aren't all Coen Bros movies 99% white?

The Coens write almost every script they direct. Don't all the experts say "write about what you know"?

― Aimless, Sunday, 11 October 2015 03:55 (nine years ago)

Intolerable Cruelty is far from their best but it is very, very funny

― let no-one live rent free in your butt (sic), Sunday, 11 October 2015 07:38 (nine years ago)

one year passes...

The transfer on the new Criterion disc of Blood Simple is so gorgeous that it has actually made me like the film a bit better than I used to (my first viewing, some 20 years ago, was on VHS, and my second, a decade-ish later, was a TV broadcast). I mean, the difference between a high 7/10 and a low 8/10, but still.

― rhymes with "blondie blast" (cryptosicko), Thursday, 27 October 2016 18:43 (eight years ago)

Someone needs to redo this poll. Though good luck trying to pick the best of the run from NCFOM TO Hail, Caesar! never mind the previous 25 years.

― Dan Worsley, Thursday, 27 October 2016 19:03 (eight years ago)

would NCFOM win?

― rip van wanko, Thursday, 27 October 2016 19:13 (eight years ago)

A Serious Man would win

― Οὖτις, Thursday, 27 October 2016 19:14 (eight years ago)

ncfom and a serious man are two of my favorite coen bros films. none of their other films of the last decade come close for me

― harold melvin and the bluetones (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 27 October 2016 19:18 (eight years ago)

True Grit was extremely solid, imo.

― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Thursday, 27 October 2016 19:44 (eight years ago)

Ah,the only Coen bros film I havent seen

― harold melvin and the bluetones (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 27 October 2016 19:50 (eight years ago)

vvg

― the kids are alt right (darraghmac), Thursday, 27 October 2016 19:59 (eight years ago)

ya thoroughly enjoyed it and was thinking of rewatching it again actually

― F♯ A♯ (∞), Thursday, 27 October 2016 20:47 (eight years ago)

True Grit would definitely be my vote if we were to poll NCfOM onward.

― rhymes with "blondie blast" (cryptosicko), Thursday, 27 October 2016 21:02 (eight years ago)

nine months pass...

Clooney directs a Coen script from the '90s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYga2m0V2O0

hard to get much of a sense of it from the trailer

― Number None, Thursday, 27 July 2017 19:57 (seven years ago)

six years pass...

Hasn't been a post on here for over six years! Does every film get its own thread? That's weird.

Drive-Away Dolls opens tomorrow. Looks kind of like a PTA-Licorice Pizza thing. Will see it soon with guarded optimism.

― clemenza, Thursday, 22 February 2024 20:00 (one year ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vy_7UGICJU

― clemenza, Thursday, 22 February 2024 20:02 (one year ago)

A newer thread has overtaken this one:

Best Coen Brothers Movie - 2017

― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Thursday, 22 February 2024 20:03 (one year ago)


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